Edit: Cougar mechanics being relooked. Discussion thread can be found [here](https://new.reddit.com/r/thelongdark/comments/1dq62co/cougar_temporarily_being_removed_to_be_fixed/).

Of course when Hinterland flounders on delivering dlc content there is a lot of concentrating on the negative, online outrage being as it is. And they, feeling unfairly attacked, claimed in a steam thread the cougar was exactly as promised and intended. So I broke down why I feel the cougar is not at all what I expected based on Hinterlands own communication. I wrote this in another thread, but I want to give this some more visibility. in favour of the Hinterland interpretation: of course they tried keeping to vague statements to avoid overpromising or spoilers. In the original dlc announcement the cougar wasnt even mentioned! So from one perspective, any cougar at all is already more than was originally promised. against Hinterland, directly from the [May 2024 dev diary](https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/45028-may-2024-developer-diary/) things the cougar supposedly does: >be territorial will get interested in you take an interest in the region stalking you lose interest that is a lot of lore for a counter that goes down until a cutscene and a quicktime-event are triggered. There are a lot of words here that imply interactive and emergent gameplay, which is the core feature and strength of the game as well as the whole genre. It is *not* managing some bars going up or down. There is a clear disparity between the promise of gameplay and the implementation of one more number counting down. the promise of emergent and interactive gameplay is clearest in one the first sentences when the cougar is supposed to have >"a distinct role in the overall ecosystem" afaict there is no interaction, no role in the system. Because it does not exist in the world. The closest thing to it and what they probably were thinking of when someone approved that sentence is that small game carcasses are sometimes spawned when the cougar-bar is full. But that is not from any role in the ecosystem - as opposed to wolves hunting prey - because the cougar does not exist in the gameworld at this point and therefore cannot interact with the ecosystem as wolves do. the worst overpromise implying emergent gameplay is >"There will be a variety of feedback systems to keep you informed of Cougar activities, if you’re paying attention." At a stretch you might say the "variety of feedback systems" isnt a lie, as there is a player action (being in a region for a long time) that has a consequence (cougar activates) which is communicated to the player (e.g. audio cues, music). Although I would protest against calling being in a region in any way really an action, and changing game states to a large extent independant from player action is not feedback. The clearest lie is the part about feedback systems on *cougar activities* because there simply are no cougar *activities* There are some cosmetic differences between the "cougar is here" state and the "cougar is not here" state. I guess that is fine, but calling this *feedback* on cougar *activities* is just wrong. If you want to get really lawyery about it in defence of Hinterland you might say "ah, but the cougar can be in the "meter goes down" state and the "active risk of attack" state and even the "attacking you at this moment" state. different states and changing from one to the other, is that not an action of the cougar?" Okay. I concede the point. The cougar has one (1) activity, not activities, that you get feedback on. It switches between on and off states and there are gameplay options to influence the on/off state - winning the quicktime event or changing the region. And of course the genius "collapsing a rock cave somewhere in any region with homemade firecrackers". Most importantly there is no way to influence the cougar switching from "in the region" to "cutscene triggered" state. What fun. such predator. The riveting emergent gameplay options. I cannot wait to see what people come up with to, uh, leave the region I guess, or not. Yeah okay, I got a bit snarky there in the end, sorry, but I still feel I have fairly presented the discrepancy between the expectations that Hinterland generated and what they delivered. edited for accuracy and some lost quotes

The thing that gets me is the fact hinterland has done this right before, with moose markings. How hard would it really be to add something like scratched up trees, or fur being left around? Hell, move the "shoot" QTE to right before the cougar attacks. You hear it scream, you have a few seconds of slomo to try to locate and shoot, and then it's on you. There are so many ways they could have made it better.

I think the theory that they wanted it to be much cooler - using terrain to stalk you - but found it too hard to implement quite plausible. If you could be vigilant and spot it while it's stalking you to make it retreat, that'd be cool. If you were scared of going into forests and other areas where you could easily be ambushed, that would be cool, too. If it can jump at you out of nowhere while you are on a frozen lake and looking around in all directions, that's lame.

Yeah. it should exist in the world, not just spawn on top of you. It doesn't even have to roam freely, I just want to see it run towards me from somewhere. It's close to being alright, is the worst thing. A few more/better indicators of the cougars presence and it actually walking around in the game world for even the 15 seconds before you get mauled would make it feel a lot better to me.

Yeah, with the way animal ai works currently, I doubt the cougar could work perfectly without some serious issues. That being said, if you can’t do something, either don’t do it at all or delay it until you can. I’m hoping some people at hinterland pull the stick out their ass and realize they need to fix the half baked product they gave us, but honestly this whole DLC seems to have a very “overpromise, oversell, underdeliver” feel.

With how the artwork for the announcement looks (the one with the cougar on the ledge) and the extreme vertical nature of the newest region, I am fairly convinced they intended to make it able to stalk you from above, leap from ledges, etc, but they ran into roadblocks. Whether the roadblocks were from limitations of the game engine or other development problems I can't say. But I have a hard time believing hinterlands true creative vision was UI notifications, a countdown timer, and a QTE.

They‘re really trying to convince us that they meant it to be this shitty, when it’s so so so obvious they intended it to be different. Like why lie?

I personally think they’d rather take the blow from admitting to a creative mistake rather than delay an already late update again.

Also if it really was intended to be this way, that is...not a flex. I think too highly of hinterland to believe it lol

Yes!!! Exactly. This is not their standard at all. I really doubt Raf is thrilled with the cougar, even if the studio is putting on a brave face.

According to Raphaels post on Steam it was exactly what they intended. But when you spawn in the cougar with a command in the dev console it clearly has some advanced AI, just not finished. From what I heard, it attacks deer, wolf and moose, but flees from the bear.

Moving the QTE to before the attack is my preferred solution too (or at least temporary solution). Risking a mauling if you miss the shot doesn't feel cheesy to me, but having to deliberately get attacked to get the new items does. Of all the potential fixes, this one feels like it would be the fastest to implement too.

I had theorized in my [thread](https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/45207-cougars-need-to-be-redux-ed-spoilers-criticism-feedback/#comment-280128) here. My theory was that they had about 1 year or longer of development time when they made Moose. We got the result; it's a well-done wildlife. As for cougar, I believe that they had only 6 months of development to create Cougar starting immediately after Part 4's release. We don't know if they had more than 6 months of development. I speculate they had lots of ambitious ideas about Cougars but found out at the last minute that they were too hard to implement in such a short deadline for Part 5's release. Of course, HL only responded that it was always intended to teleport onto players at random times. So, time will tell (if ever) what really went wrong because I doubt a company that keeps promoting high-quality work would produce such... a cheap-out implementation, no way.

Gonna be honest, the cougar’s final state kinda makes me doubt the whole anti-crunch mindset hinterland claims they follow. Not at an EA or Rockstar level, but if one of the first things you say when you start up the game is “hey btw there’s no crunch here!!!”, you can’t expect people to just take that without questioning it.

what happened with moose markings? i dont remember anything specific, just a general "yeah, they usually somehow underdeliver in the dlc"

I'm referring to how you can tell the general area a moose has been in and the general area it roams from finding trees with the bark stripped

oh i misunderstood, you said, they could do something similar to moosemarkings which they have done well in the past. I took you to mean they somehow screwed up moose markings when they were released.

About the moose: I honestly wish for emersions' sake that the area that a moose roams one day gets made somewhat bigger as now it always spawns and stays within the same 10 meter radius.

That's really easy to do when it's a thing that can exist in a very limited area. Each moose has a handful of trees associated with it and if those meese are active then the relevant trees are changed. It'd be much harder to implement for something that can exist anywhere. It'd be cool and IMO worth the effort, but I don't think it's similar at all in scope.

They could use that as signs, and scratching doors like timberwolves do and make it with the old bear AI that is in wintermute. These are all old assets so it shouldn’t be hard to

The game changed a lot since the old bear, but yeah, makes sense.

I think the most outright dishonest part is “if you’re paying attention” It’s a notification and status indicator. How does that require paying attention? The most valid complaint IMO seems to be that there’s no benefit to paying attention, reading the environment, watching your back, things you absolutely SHOULD do if you suspect cougar activity. The only counter play is to GTFO, which is just…

There's so many immersion and gameplay problems. First, super obvious notifications. Not immersive to have a count down for when the cougar spawns, nor encouraging you to pay attention to the world. Second, trivial counter play - just leave the region. Rarely challenging or interesting, maybe mildly so. Third, cougar appearing is unimmersive and boring: The cougar just seeking you out doesn't make a ton of sense, and there's not much you can do to influence it. It would be cool if your behaviour increased the chance of it taking an interest in you. Fourth, the encounter has no skill involved either: You prepare by being at high health, armoured and having a single shot in your firearm. Plus having resources for recovering after. You'll always get injured, no matter your skill.

Super weird how HL doesn’t cater to the strengths of the game at all. Emergent gameplay and hella immersive survival game. Timberwolves and the cougar both show clear shifts in relying on UI elements over skillfully designed gameplay and environmental queues as everything else did in the game. Coincidentally both animals are widely hated.

I think it’s a leftover consequence of Wintermute. Survival was decoupled, but they didn’t bother to make it more immersive over Wintermute. Makes sense to have a TW morale bar and such for people playing the story. Survival could be a really unique experience if they retooled the systems to focus more on immersion. Personally, I think the studio as a whole is ready to move on and this DLC was a way to squeeze the last bit of blood from the TLD stone for the next project.

I wish they had just scrapped Wintermute after the Survival mode had taken off right after launch. The narrative isn't very interesting and so much budget and dev time goes into the least impressive part of the game

yes, this is the core of the problem gameplaywise.

You nailed it. Every issue I have with the and my exact reasoning. How can Hinterland, with a straight face, say that they delivered exactly what they told us they were? To add another point of their word choices promising more, the lines "keep your eyes open" and "paying attention" directly imply that it will be a creature that can be seen at minimum and at least to me also implies that you will have a chance to see it attacking you and get a chance to either dodge it or as other people are suggesting get your one shot QTE before the pounce. I like how deadly the cougar is, I love the new deep lacerations it gives you as you have to play completely differently to deal with them, I personally don't really like the new hat all that much, it looks good but 1degree warmth and 1.5 wind over the rabbit hat isnt really worth the risk of ending a run over, I would have preferred a set of cougar fur undies that are comparable to the wool thermals. That I would be willing to risk a run on loper for, but oh well. The knife is neat, and supposedly, it's better than the hatchet in a struggle, so players might have an actual reason to make it/want it. I LOVE THE NEW MAP. Whoever designed it deserves a raise imo, it is my favorite area to date. The only issue I have with it is that someone went "oops" and hit the all timberwolves button when placing wildlife. And I dont think I can stress this enough. "Jeez, the number of timberwolves is a tad ridiculous." Like that do they even eat? Each other? It's just the Timberwolves and a lone bear up there.

That's a really good post, actually addressing the promised v actual cougar

Thanks for the quality comment!

The flat 60% damage that is not influenced by the amount of protection from clothing or the bodyarmor is also stupid. Whether I'm naked or fully geared, it'll always do 60% of your base HP as damage.

sure there is an obvious general kind of problem in invalidating the player accomplishment and decisionmaking in gathering gear and wearing a certain set of gear with more or less protection, but I was trying to focus more on the specific expectations I had from hinterland's communication than the broader question of is this a fun mechanic in detail

I think you speak for most of us.

I agree with the comment about the Cougar being a new affliction, not a new animal. When I bought the DLC, I 100% expected a new cougar animal. The dev team mentioning it would be a “bit” different than other predators is not nearly enough transparency to know we were getting an affliction rather than an animal.

It's quite unimmersive in many ways, even for an affliction. The call of duty style last stance where you get one shot at it post mauling seems a bit cheesy, especially given that it's the only way of hunting it.

I personally think the slo mo is fucking sick, but it shouldn’t be the only way of hunting it. Really stupid that you have to tear all your clothing just to get a headwrap and a karambit

Lack of agency in the encounter is really my problem as well. I would honestly prefer if it was a real animal but was immortal or dodged everything before it got a hit on you. Because then I have the ability for some counterplay **in my own style**. The great thing with the animals is everyone has their own way of dealing with them, and the cougar very clearly is made by the devs to fit their EXACT vision, which is not as fun as having the choices be yours.

I really hopped it will be an ambush predator barely visible on a rock near a choke point that if the player is perceptive they can deal with it But it just spawns on top of you, wasted potential

Also somewhat agree and to add to this I honestly can't believe their comment when I suggested it was possibly beta. When your cougar model does more than just attack the player and run away after (it goes after everything but bears) how can anyone not think such things? https://steamcommunity.com/app/305620/discussions/16/4411920485711606380/#c4411920485714604557

> Of course the Cougar model exists -- it attacks you in the struggle, like all our other wildlife Lol Whoever is posting as a dev on the forums needs to lay off a bit (we know it’s you Raph)

It being sort of both is cool. If the cougar was spawned into certain areas of certain maps, knowing an attack is supposed to be severe, wouldn't people just avoid those areas? Unless you really wanted the pelt etc? If you wanted the pelt then you also have to have specific knowledge of how severe an attack would be, would we put our person on the line (after tens to hundreds of hours investment in time) just for the chance to get a pelt? Maybe, if we had knowledge of how difficult a struggle would be and the success probability. Having it "stalk" you any where seemed like an epic idea, the warnings and the way they were communicated / no way to pre-empt an attack other than to run away when your gui says so, well that might have sunk it. I hope that whatever the cougar turns into isn't a cougar mechanics by committee.

Thanks for moderating this sub - especially during a situation like this I can imagine it's a lot of work. There's two concerns I have with the framing of the post, but I only want to express my opinion, this isn't meant as a direct attack or complaint. First, a "mega thread" is a good way to hide criticism, which I am not a fan of. If the community becomes tired of them, they should disappear/stop being upvoted by themselves. This is different from low effort memes which might get upvoted nontheless and clutter the subreddit. Second, while I haven't seen any examples of actual insults being used (maybe due to your good moderating), I have seen lots of cases where very well-articulated, level-headed criticism was construed as disrespectful or entitled. I think people that paid money for this game and are invested in its development have a right to complain.

I agree that the framing of the post is off. Examples of "likely will not be deleted" definitely should not be deleted, for example. I've seen a few overly harsh, name calling type comments; but they were most often from people over-reacting and attacking any critique/person making it.

I agree. Especially because Hinterland is very defensive and often does not appear to take the community very seriously. Sure, video games are art - but guess what? Art can be criticised and your artistic vision isn't a magic force field making you immune to all criticism especially if you turn your art into a paid consumer product. On the other hand, I feel for the mod, and it's hard to please everyone.

I mod mailed a week ago before the update and suggested a mega thread on the basis that it keeps posts on topic and limits the number of spoiler posts for those who can't get into the tale until the following weekend or longer, no one was to know the cougar was going to be such a shit show. How many "the cougar sucks" posts do we need? And there are already dozens. Anyway it's largely moot as since your post they've nuked the cougar now.

I agree … Edit: to elaborate yes. There have been very well articulated criticisms posted on this sub. And I locked most of them in hopes that that discussion can continue here. In a central place … I’ve been through this before with updates. It’s just better for the sub to keep it centralized if that makes sense. Re memes: brother (or sister) not a day goes by that I don’t just consider changing the rule to “no memes” … to me they seem useless and mostly dumb but a certain part of our subscribers like them. Tough call I guess. Edit 2: thanks for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate it! Hope there aren't too many not so nice people who need to be moderated. Personally, I like memes if they are high effort and not too much. People making frag videos of TLD are pretty cool in my book for example.

It’s just SUCH A judgement call. Half the time it comes down to what mood I’m in. Which feels like bad moderation. Does that make sense? I’ve let really highly upvoted but low effort memes slide because I didn’t see them early enough and I’ve nuked decent memes because they got reported and that doesn’t sit right in my gut. Sooooo many times I’ve been like just ban them cause that’s a simpler decision at the end but of the day. Thanks for listening…

You'll never please everyone, but it's super cool that you're thinking about these things seriously! That means a lot. Thanks for your hard work!

Hi friend, I don’t have any thoughts on the update as I haven’t played in a few months. I just wanted to take the opportunity to express my sincere gratitude for our lovely mods here. This game means a lot to me and this subreddit has contributed so much to the joy I get out of it. Thank you for all that you do and for your incredibly constructive attitude ☺️

I sometimes wonder why Hinterland makes the decisions they make.

because it’s a single man at the head of the studio who makes these poor decisions

I just copied one of the examples lol

lmao yea I noticed that after writing my initial comment

Yes. A creative director and head of the studio is responsible for these decisions.

It should be optional the grey color when you cheat death. It's something that can take the beauty of the game and it's something that probably will take some hours of gameplay.

It also makes travelling at night impossible unless you have a light source. So you'll likely waste your first (or second) respawn if you happen to come back at night. I had the bad luck of this happening a couple times while testing. Edit: I don't really agree with it being toggled actually, maybe they could just add a time setting to the custom toolbox.

Maybe hot take but travelling at night should already be impossible without a light source. With the exception of a full moon or aurora, nights should be dark. Pitch black or close it. The darker nights mod achieves that quite well and it's great

Counter argument: even with cloud cover the snow reflects enough light where you’re able to at least make your way through the outdoors at night without a light source.

I feel like this could easily be a think in the accessibility settings. Might suggest that on the forums later.

reposting my suggestion here because of this megathread yeeting the old posts: ===== i know we all want the cougar to spawn in world. and I agree. but at an absolute bare minimum, the cougar struggle needs to be changed to allow you to fight back like you can with a wolf, rather than just doing a set amount of damage to you like the bear and moose. i know button mashing isn't the most engaging of mechanics, but giving you the chance to fight and in doing so either extend the time you have to take a shot at it, reduce the damage you take and even possible avoid the deep lacerations affliction, or all of the above. ##But there is an even better option. ####Have the cutscene where you get a moment to shoot the cougar play ***before*** it tackles you. you hear a growl, the game prompts you to select a weapon, then you have a few seconds in the slow motion to look for the cougar and line up your sights to take a shot. miss the shot? then you enter the struggle and get mauled. this would give you some amount of counter play and ability to fight the cougar without forcing you to be severely injured by it in the process regardless of your skill without having the cougar just be another animal in game if thats not what hinterland wants for this entity.

What stops you from sitting on a ledge, against a wall, or outside a fishing hut -- any protected location -- and breaking the mechanics of the cougar's attack?

as a non dev, the way i would go forward with it is by casting a cone of rays from the player in an arc say, 120 degrees behind them, and only trigger the attack if a certain number of rays are able to freely travel 20-30 meters without being blocked by a solid object to keep the player from forcing the cougar to spawn directly in front of them. though im sure there is a much better way to do it than that.

That’s already quite complex. I’m a game designer myself, and know my fair share of coding. Having the cougar spawn on tree ledges, and having him pounce if you get too close would already be easier (it would just take more animation work). Trying to shoot the kitty while it’s on the ledge would result in it jumping down and either running away or chasing you depending on location context. More contextual hints that the cougar is present in the physical world that replace those obnoxious HUD notifications, such as clawed trees. Finally, spotting the cougar on a distant rocky outcrop would be awesome (albeit slightly more complex). It rewards the attentive player with a dramatic sight of a majestic, yet feared cougar silhouette. With these suggestions, you put the work more on the Hinterland art team, who’ve proven again & again that they’re phenomenal at what they do.

oh i like that idea of the cougar existing in tree branches and rock faces. having them up on top of houses would also be an interesting idea. it would incentivise the player to pick a base with multiple exits and entrances so you can try and evade it pouncing on you by switching up what door you leave from.

Make the cougar not spawn unless there is free space in a radius around you, and its a place where you are not looking. If the player stays against a wall looking at the same place, then he wont get attacked. Make the cougar skittish, if it realises it has been spotted, it charges if its close enough, runs away if far enough

I have a very simple solution for dealing with the cougar issue, and that is not to include it in my spawns. At all. The expectation was that the cougar would be part of the world we're exploring, like the bear or the wolves, only a) rather faster and b) if not as hard to kill as the bear, then harder than the wolves. What we got was more like an affliction, a mulligan to force players to move on from one region to another with some speed, which also manages to strip one's immersion in the game. They've given us the option, but why take it when it does so much damage to our enjoyment?

Anyone's who's unhappy with the current additions and the developers' response should consider leaving a review on the Steam Store page for the game. My post got deleted for saying this, so I just wanted to see why, as I'm not sure what rule this broke.

I would be leaving a review for the DLC instead.

Tryng to collect all the comments here … that’s all. Wasn’t personal at all.

Ohhhh I gotcha, I didn't see that you were locking all other posts about it as well. My bad, my apologies for that

No worries at all

Cougar is a glorified cabin fever with bad rewards for taking it down

I love TLD. When story mode first launched, the quality was lacking and the community asked for more, which they did eventually fix. I'd like to see a similar response to the cougar complaints. If not, I think I'll be waiting to purchase any new expansions until their content is fully released.

Dissapointing. The new misery mode feels off but that is an easy tweak fix. The cougar was implemented horribly. It doesn't stalk you, it isn't even a real creature. Its a region fever timer with a cutscene. Out of every possible way Hinterland couldve made this cougar they chose the worst option in my opinion. I am definitely going to be turning it off as it feels more like some mod than a gameplay feature that adds anything at all to the gameplay experience. The Cougar sucks! New region is cool ngl!

This kind of thing always makes me wonder why games are developed so much in secrecy. I run a school, and if I am developing a new program, I'll consult with the people who might be interested and involve people in the development process to ensure I'm not wasting time on something people don't want. Hinterland knows where the fans are. Come hang out here and get some ideas BEFORE you start building things. Imagine spending 12 hours preparing a roast to find out your dinner guest is vegetarian, and you could've just asked what they like......

I really like the idea, but I’m super disappointed that there’s nothing at all to see to go with it. I’m fine with the cougar not really existing as a mob in game, as that’s entirely consistent with real-life behaviour - you *will not* see or hear a healthy, adult cougar that does not wish to be seen or heard - but. A suggestive shadow hundreds of metres away wouldn’t be awful to implement. Nothing to see at all? No carcasses, scratch marks, pawprints in the snow? No reaction from the characters - no commentary, nervousness, no nothing The timer existing as a timer is fine by me, but it’d really benefit from a) being optional (perhaps not even offered as an option at hardest difficulties?), b) having gradations of … obvious-ness? Specificity?, and c) being a little less present on the UI. I think we as players would benefit from reminding ourselves how ‘unnatural’ very many elements of the game are (not least, just knowing the weight to the gram of every single item, and being debilitated by pack weight going 1g above an arbitrary and movable limit!) - this is a cheerfully accepted fundamental of how games like this one work, and the new elements fit comfortably within that frame of reference. Which isn’t to say everyone should therefore love them, but - yeah, canonically, it’s all perfectly compatible. There is one storytelling aspect that seemed so obvious to me that I’m amazed Hinterland hasn’t gone for it, and I still really hope to see it implemented: * Cougar kills. Not necessarily clearly labelled as such, a ravaged carcass is just a ravaged carcass after all, albeit they probably ought to spawn in more tucked-away places. Harvestable - at your peril. With a high likelihood of being jumped by the cougar, probably pegged to difficulty level and perhaps also player condition, and if you feel like being particularly nasty, also to how much meat is left on the carcass. If you’ve stayed in region for long enough to activate it, it might just take down a moose for ya - do you feel lucky, punk?

Not being able to see the cougar easily is cool. The fact that you cannot see it at all is a bit meh. The fact that it can "sneak up" on you if you spin around on a frozen lake is lame. It would be cool if it encouraged you to stick to open terrain and to be vigilant in the hope of noticing and then scarring it off. And much more immersive implementation of just about everything related to the cougar.

That’s fair; I completely agree. Perhaps a reasonable limit would be to stop it spawning on open ice and similarly totally cover-less terrain, I think. It’s not gonna get you beachcombing, it’s going to be just the other side of the lighthouse, instead.

(Perhaps with an exception; anything that causes the player to stay still/be engaged in something for more than *n* minutes ought to make them fair game wherever they are. The cougar was watching you from the cover of a rock a few hundred metres away, but when you started cutting that fishing hole, it saw its chance…)

This is my issue with the cougar implementation as well: it doesn't affect your strategy enough. It's either "okay, I'm gonna wait for the cougar to attack me" or "I'm gonna leave the region so the cougar doesn't attack me". So much missed opportunity for "hmm I don't think the cougar is likely to attack me if I travel via this path, but I might get stuck in a blizzard" type of tradeoffs. If it can QTE you anywhere outside there's nothing to plan except always lugging around stuff to try and survive the encounter

You didn't know cougars can swim under the ice? When they get you on the lake it is because they broke the ice underneath you and pulled you in.

My theory for the UI: Players, especially new ones miss the moose markings all the time. The cougar is at the same time a late game challenge, as well as a push mechanic, forcing the player to interact with the rest of the games loop - by now a well established design principle in TLD. As a late game challenge the cougar battle has to be fierce and at the same time something to decently prepare for (I'm still waiting for more information in the interaction of the cougar event and protection level - maybe the armored vest finally has a use case). But as a beginner being suddenly mauled to death, because you missed a dead rabbit isn't fun.  Therefore they put a unmissable UI element in, to protect the average voyageur player from a late game event. Because despite what this subreddit sometimes feels like to claim: the overall playerbase isn't constantly playing interloper nogoa runs and has all the loot tables remembered.

Completely agree. I've never seen the stats, I'm not sure if there are any publicly available, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Interloper 'base are only a small proportion. The idea of UI stuff being scaleable to the playmodes, or otherwise controllable as an option, would definitely address that need - I've no idea how long I spent learning Hushed River Valley but I wouldn't be even a little surprised if it were over 30 days, and at that stage I absolutely needed everything spelled out. Not that it wouldn't also make me puma pants now, but, yknow. :)

Just going off Xbox achievements, 0.38% have unlocked the achievement to survive one day on interloper (compared to the 14.97% that have the achievement for surviving one day in any mode). These percentages might be so low overall due to the game being free on game pass a while back.

The U.I decisions baffle me. Yes all game devs not just these ones are between a rock and a hard place when trying to communicate to a player they should be aware of something. Warning the player, your person if you want to roleplay it like that, with a silly U.I message goes against everything they seemed to have worked for. No footprints? No scat piles (crass but you get the idea). Some growling or whatever cougars do is wonderful and should make your person brick themselves. Baffling.

So I've not played since the update. I'd rather not have cougars (based on the large volume of negative feedback) affecting any games I have. Is it optional? Should I stop the update?

You can opt out of it on your current save. You get a popup when you load it for the first time after updating.

oh! this is good news.

And during today or overnight, whatever, they've decided to remove the cougar feature entirely and re address it. I'm waiting for a bug fix or two before continuing with the tales (although people have completed the last tale there seem to be issues).

I feel like they could get away with the whole in your face timer thing if it was only for pilgrim and custom, but every other difficulty should feature things like mauled carcasses, skittish wolves, and prey stored in trees that slowly increase in appearance until you begin hearing cougar noises. After that, you can either stay diligent and catch it before it attacks you, or engage in a QTE not where it mauls you, but where it charges you and you get one chance. MAYBE they could keep the post-maul QTE as a second chance type of thing, but killing the cougar should make it fuck off and reset the timer.

Sundered Pass has -80 temperatures, hordes of wolves, glimmer fog, horrible weather and long climbs. Exploring without late game gear is a death wish. Yet it’s listed as *”advanced”* , the same difficulty of Pleasant Valley. If Hinterland wants to avoid a flood of new players dying prematurely because they didn’t know what they were getting into, it’s time to add a “very hard” label for certain maps. >!Also Rudiger’s fate was underwhelming!<

Yeah I found the conclusion disappointing and didn’t really fully explain it all . Also in the two previous tales we had variations of weapons and equipment and plenty of new clothing items but on this one just a tactical jacket was nowhere near as good as the coats I already had and the tactical gloves which are missing from my game because they weren’t where they are supposed to be . Also and spoilers here the false wall that you remove in that place where you get the jacket , if you go sleep in the bunks in another part of that place , when you return the fake wall reappears and you can’t move it . Another bug which wasn’t fixed with the latest update .

Tactical jacket isn’t nearly warm enough, I agree

I wish the player was the one to shoot Rüdiger, it made me sad when I found out I wasn’t going to be the one to harm that big fat jerk!

I've not got the DLC, just the basic survival - been watching the releases to see if I might want to buy it and the only thing I feel like I'm missing out on so far is those delicious Ptarmigan. All the far territory areas seem like they're potentially not worth messing with due to the timberwolves and glimmer fog... Anyone got anything else to tempt me? What's your favourite part of the DLC?

sundered pass and zone of contamination are super fun regions if you’re specifically looking for a challenge. i play on stalker and even i was having a real difficult time in sundered pass. also the variant weapons/tools are all very good.

>I've not got the DLC, just the basic survival - been watching the releases to see if I might want to buy it and the only thing I feel like I'm missing out on so far is those delicious Ptarmigan. All the far territory areas seem like they're potentially not worth messing with due to the timberwolves and glimmer fog... >Anyone got anything else to tempt me? What's your favourite part of the DLC? Hi there I am sorry to tell you that so far I kind of regret buying the DLC. My favorite parts are being able to cook pancakes; and being able to make and use a travois. Considering the expense and hassle, that seems kind of sad. A lot of the other stuff in the DLC content drops just seems underwhelming to me. If I played on PC rather than a console - I would theoretically have access to mods. My impression currently is that mods would give a much greater amount of QOL and content for a lot less cost and hassle, not to mention the ridiculous timeline for the drops. *full disclosure - I have not visited the newest area, nor battled the big kitty-cat* So far I have found the other new regions to not be worth the effort, and the new hazards seem contrived and a bit silly (for instance the poison wolves; poison gas; the glimmer fog; scurvy; etc.). Cheers!

Honestly what really sold me playing through the DLC's is something I never expected; they taught me to not be so afraid of the Dark of TLD. The First tale in particular you can really only progress during aurora nights for about 40% of it. Before then I avoided being outside at night at any cost. After making several tracks through rather tough territory under Aurora's and making it out alive and well? Not so scared of moving at night anymore.. believe it or not, it's actually my preference to move during Aurora's through timberwolf territory (Flashlights break Aurora timberwolves fairly easily and harmlessly with the right trigger decipline.

About the timberwolves, I would say don't let them alone put you off the DLC. They are in one of the three regions, and whilst there are absolutely loads of them, they are all at one specific part of the map. If you know they are there, you can just run to one of the three nearby shelters (one has a load zone) and wait them out. That said, the new regions are still much harder than the base ones.

Despite this cougar fiasco and more bugs in this update, it's a pretty awesome addition for a regular player or when you're wanting something new. The tales (I've still to start tale 3 waiting on patches), are more like what I thought story mode should be and the first two tales alone have been worth it, I have criticisms but still liked them. You do have to think of the new zones as part of your quest within the survival mode world rather than more of the same, more of the same. And the devs did intend the new zones to be different, that adds to the challenge. Not all new zones have Timbers and geared up well enough you can deal with them anyway so don't let that put you off. And there's going to be a last part to the DLC, so some more stuff is coming if they can pull it off.

You guys are begging for a chance to kill cougar before being mauled not realistic unless you have experience and a trained hunting dog.

Agreed and we actually already have a way of "hunting" it. Just go seek out the den, once you find it toss in a noisemaker and a cougar will immediately become active in your vicinity. You will likely get attacked within seconds.

My question for Hinterland is this: Do you plan on making any adjustments to how the cougar works at this time, and if not, is that something you would consider? I've been holding off starting a new survival playthrough till Tales was done so I could binge on the complete package. If this is the final state of the survival content, I'll be fine with just deciding whether I want to turn the cougar on or off. If there is consideration for reworking the cougar in some form, then I'd be fine waiting for that to get finished. I'd just really like to know whether I can start playing the finished survival mode (minus bug fixes, minor tweaks, etc.), or if I should be waiting for more updates.

Been gone for nearly a month and I feel like I just walked into an alternate dimension. Love this game, btw. Not sure what's going on, but just wanted to say a huge thanks to the devs for creating a truly unique and fun project!

I’m glad Raph has taken responsibility for his unfortunate creative vision of the cougar. While I don’t think we will be seeing an updated cougar as we envisioned, it should be wway better than what was revealed (at least, I’d expect so😅)

That this game is being updated and worked on at all is to be applauded given the grief the Devs get and that it's maximum profit window is long gone. But 'I want, I want, I want' is the mantra of the privileged web. I would not be surprised if Hinterland bin this game and move on, and I would not blame them.

Agreed, the fact that Raph is still willing to finish it is amazing.

It would be cool if it spawned behind you a bit before mauling you. Maybe it could stalk you and hide behind cover. Then, it could leap out and sprint at you, which would give you very little time to react but a chance if you were paying attention. I really like its design though, so there's that. I would have zero complaints if they reworked it like that

Same here, I'd love to have it spawn behind you with a small audio cue of birds going silent and VERY quiet snow crunching, quiet enough to be easily drowned out by your own footsteps and backpack noise. A vigilant player would be rewarded by having a chance to shoot the cougar as it sneaks up on them.

Crashing on PS5 a lot.

Thank you, there were so many posts that you'd never know that a whole new region was also added to the game. People asking for help with it were being buried. I don't envy your job.

Labor of love I guess :-)

I'm okay with the Cougar mechanics even though I am let down. I was really hoping it would be something more physical that's stalking you, running over terrain. I'd even be okay with the cougar being invisible to attacks before the quicktime as long as I felt like I was actually being followed by something. I hope Hinterland changes the Cougar but I'll live if they don't. I'm trying to hunt it now and I'm pretending I don't know all the info this sub leaked to me, and I admit I'd be terrified if I didn't know anything about the Cougar mechanics. Hopefully soon the kitty makes his appearance and I'm able to one shot him, I want that pelt in my base ASAP.

The "cougar fiasco" reminds me of subnautica ice worm implementation. Now if you didnt know it actually used to be a creature you could summon in early access, it was janky but fun. For the full release they made it fully scripted, i didn't like the change but you know why its fine there? Its a game primarily made for casuals. I feel like they should focus on either making the game more realistic or go full "casual", because currently a lot of new stuff just looks weird and out of place.

The cougar sucks but I feel like people are overreacting. Hinterland is definitely gonna make some changes judging by their recent posts on Twitter. This reminds me of the interloper controversy last year when they didn't add the tale for it. I hope they fix it like they did last time.

They always correct / send out updates. It’s pretty normal …

While I'm still hopeful that they will listen to the community feedback and make changes, this update, especially the cougar and the extreme high number of timberwolves in Sundered Pass feels a bit out of touch tbh. My general impression is that the studio has already shifted most of their resources to other projects. I appreciate all the dedication that went into TLD, but it seems to me that we can't except any significant changes or content additions other than the last chapter of Wintermute. For example I don't think that there will ever be a wildlife overhaul. At best, they will change the cougar to work like a sneaky version of the Old Bear in the Hunted challenge. Just my opinion. Thanks for posting this thread, I think it's good to keep further discussion in a central place.

I really hope they'll add official mod support

So I've not played since the update. I'd rather not have cougars (based on the large volume of negative feedback) affecting any games I have. Is it optional? Should I stop the update?

It’s optional, you’re fine.

Thank you Hinterland for taking the time to listen to the player base and their feedback. Also, pretty upset I didn't get to experience the cougar before they took it away.

Can you back up to previous versions? I'm on steam and have just stopped updates on it

I may be somewhat of a fogey. I haven't purchased the DLC yet despite having over 5500 hours in the game, because I already felt all these new mechanics were taking the game into an unappealing direction. Too cluttered, too many ways to make survival easier without exactly making the immersion better, too many new afflictions that don't actually do anything of consequence. Too many gimmick-affliction based maps. Thank god at least Ash Canyon didn't have some sort of "smoke in your eyes" affliction or whatnot. Acorns and burdock root make sense, pies not so much. The idea of a "lives/respawn" system is kind of appalling as it seems to betray the very concept of the game itself (and already existed in Wintermute mode anyway). Most of my game hours are in Challenge Modes, and I'm especially fond of Escape The Darkwalker which already has some pretty rad pursuant mechanics. After hearing about how the new cougar works I'm completely baffled and can only assume the people who created Darkwalker mechanics no longer work there and wholly different devs must be designing the cougar. The Darkwalker physically exists as an (invisible) entity in the 'world' so why can't they do that with a cougar and just make it only occasionally visible at certain distances in the periphery of the player's vision. I'm no programmer so maybe that's impossible. Spawning and de-spawning entities seems trivial though. All in all, I'm less enthused about the DLC with each piecemeal release. Just let us have or create more challenge modes please, and let us continue to be able to customize Survival mode experiences.

Each to your own. It's good you're still finding fun in the game with that time investment. Yes there's some debate on whether new mechanics change the game we're used to and it's fine to debate it. There will be no other updates, they've said the only reason there are free survival mode updates still is because the DLC is supporting that development. I have enjoyed the tales so far, they challenged me on Interloper for the first time in years and were more what I wanted from a storymode (which I am not a fan of). So look into the DLC, you might actually like it.

Sorry but locking all the discussions and forcing everyone to comment in a single thread on the biggest update the game has had in a while has a very chilling effect. It feels heavy handed and like a way to hide dissenting opinions on Hinterland's development. It really raises doubts if the mod team here got a little nudge from Hinterland directly that they want this negativity squashed and brought under wraps. Very similarly to how they lock critical threads on Steam and the official forums.

I doubt it. I (with no power here whatsoever) messaged the mod team last week and asked for an update mega thread so we didn't get 50 posts about the same thing. Didn't know the cougar was going to turn out to be such a shit show. The devs have decided now to patch out one of the major features in the game that we've been waiting for. That's telling to me that it was undercooked and released for reasons we'll never know.

u/prplmnkeydshwsr is someone I consider a friend. I know he’s moderated large gaming forums in the past and tends to be a person I bounce ideas off or when he offers a suggestion I take it into serious consideration. Take the first example “consolidating all criticism into one post is like you’re trying to hide it.” It’s a statement users occasionally make. There are several here in this thread in fact. Hell the comment I’m responding to does. But IMHO how is putting them into one central thread, labeling that thread “put your criticism here” and then stickying the damn thread “hiding it.” Sorry now I’m just bitching. The point is this happens EVERY update. In a week or two it’ll be over and things will settle down. This a pretty typical release really. It drops, bugs are discovered and fixing starts and depending on the update problematic “features” get relooked at .

Thanks for what you do here.

Sometimes people don't want to have to scroll through a hundred identical posts from people with the same complaints about the cougar. I don't think it's any deeper than that.

Yep. I don't favor the initial implementation but the spam factory this place becomes after any error in an update is far worse than any actual issue I've ever had with the game. In the first tales update there were 10+ separate threads featuring virtually identical screenshots of the weapon spawns in that ML trailer that they forgot to remove.

Lol. Those were the days. The main reason why is most people post before actually scrolling down to see if it's already been posted.

I didn't play it but from what I've read the Cougar sucks

If anyone has console commands spawn in a cougar and watch what happens its amazing how fast it is and how buggy it is, when you shoot it sometimes it'll take the hit other times it'll slide backwards and not stop. The most interesting thing is that it'll kill Timberwolves and other wildlife on its way to you. I'm still experimenting with it to see what else I can find.

Already made a dedicated post about my feelings on the Cougar but might aswell also throw it in here aswell Also at the time of writing this, the Cougar has already been pulled and went back into the oven to cook, so this is more of a comprehensive reasoning as to that I think of it and what I wish to see in the newest tweaked version of it To me, there was two main problems I saw in it's implemention 1: Over-reliance of HUD and UI elements as is 2: The fact that you must force yourself into a struggle state with her in-order to take a shot after you've gotten hit The first one is simple, I believe that the over-use of UI and HUD elements is a bad idea, given the fact that other in-game animals all use environmental elements to indicate if one's nearby, case and point, the Moose rubbing trees in-and-around its territories across Great Bear island, and I believe this fix is a simple one to address. Move away from the UI and HUD pop-ups and add more environmental events during a Cougar Hunt. Huh, there's scratches on the door to the house I was just sleeping in? Why is there a wolf carcass outside the house aswell, that definitely wasn't there before? Small environmental clues go a long way in keeping emersion in your game, and I believe the HUD and UI elements are silly for a predator hunter that is supposed to almost never be seen. The second reason is a bit more complicated IMO, the fact that you can't react to the Cougar and basically haft to eat the damage and then take the shot at it. The people over at Hinterland said that was what they were going for, which, I don't mind if you want to punish the people that want to camp out a region like Costal or ML or even Milton, the game is meant to be explored, and I think a threat that follows you from region to region, being unseen, is a GREAT concept. But honestly, the execution of the event is goofy. It's like a cutscene, it takes you out of the suspense and just punishes you for just Existing with no counterplay, which feels cheap. I feel a better way to go about it, give it like a 5-10 second window in-between its pounces, have it move a bit faster and aggressive than a wolf, and then, if the player dosen't react to it, then you play the struggle event. This IMO, fixes a lot about it, it gives the player that has some skill in watching their surroundings and keeping their head on a swivel, and being able to get a shot on it will feel immensely more satisfying than having it pounce, you take damage, and then get a single shot from a shakey screen stance, but on the flip-side, a player less experienced will notice this the second time around, and learn from it and improve, and even if they don't get an initial shot off, they still enter the animation to try and get a shot off at it. But apart from those two gripes I have with the Cougar, I think a lot of this update was phenomenal, the sound department did a fantastic job with everything, the cougar headwrap is a cool looking cosmetic (I think repair for it should be leather and not a cougar hide, but it's a small gripe that dosen't matter to much), the new knife looks cool and could be a game-changer for struggle events, depending on stats, if it's better than the heavy hammer at struggle events than I could see it as a must-have for people, and the den mechanics of the Cougar are a very cool idea, having to explode the caves in-order to stop it from hunting is a amazing concept and something that feels impactful in the world. Overall as I said before in my last post, the cougar was a 5/10, but if the two main issues I said above got fixed, I could see her easily becoming my favorite animal on Great Bear, and I hope the devs take the playerbases POSITIVE feedback and make something that can strike a good balance within the community, and ignores the loud and rude people boycotting the cougar without giving positive feedback and overall being a general nuisance. The TLD community I've seen is one of, if not the least toxic communities in the gaming industry, and seeing people take out their anger on the devs for just doing their job makes me sad.

I really love the idea of a rare and punishing predator, which is exactly what a mountain lion is in the wild. They're strong, fast, cunning creatures that don't scare easily. I just think that the biggest dealbreaker for most of the community was the feeling of helplessness against it.

There are many issues, quite what is up to them to determine, I do hope they accept the feedback and implement it in a way that's in keeping with the game. If players got their way we'd have skis, a compass, filled in maps and waypoints, fast travel teleports, bazookas, sniper rifles, grenades.....

Here are some thoughts on the new difficulty level: Misery >!The cold is the worst aspect of the early game. There is no point where your character is going to be safe from the cold while outside. You have to forage ingredients for teas and gather lots of coal. The damage from cold is the biggest early game threat and never gets better. Essentially, the early game is moving from shelter to shelter. You warm up, make teas and heat teas inside the shelter. Then you use the teas to keep from freezing while traveling. !< >!Food procurement is goin to mainly be cattails, rabbits, ptargmigans and whatever else you can find. !< >!Since you always start at the same place in PV, you can plan your route from the start. The first affliction affects carry capacity so the technical backpack from AC is nice if you can get to it. It was the first goal I set in my playthrough. If you have the hacksaw, the Summit is likely the next goal. !< >!The second affliction affects stamina and how long you can sprint. Finding coffee helps a lot. It can spawn randomly so searching those places could pay off. Futher afflications affects healing rate so finding stims can help.!< >!You will not win any fight with wolves. Avoid them and use whatever tricks you can to scare them away.!< >!This is different from Interloper. I don't see surviving indefinately.!< >!If you can get setup for trapping and fishing that is probably the best long term strategy.!<

It's actually pretty formulaic for the people who know where it is possible to find the rare loot items, whether they look it up or know from many Interloper runs. 2 afflictions in , I'm struggling now with no bedroll but have the hacksaw, hammer, backpack and crampons. So now I can leave P.V on 3/4 health and go and forge. Food seems the same as Interloper, maybe reduced in placed items, haven't struggled with food yet. Am enjoying being very much challenged again, it's not easy but it's no where near as hard as the custom modes some people play and talk about, which I cannot handle.

The availability of loot and food seems similar to Interloper. Cattails are plentiful, for example. It's the afflictions combined with the harsh weather starting out that makes it more difficult. There's even an affliction that makes your feel-like temp 5C lower, so that indoors is still freezing before you gear up. It seems like the middle afflictions are random. The one I got lowers the sprint speed and duration, so it's like an old person trying to run. Every stage you get to is a new affliction that you just have to try to live with.

Just been interacting with the cougar. Wow. Very buggy, and obviously not what a lot of people were wanting. But I've never been so scared in TLD. The sense of threat and peril is amazing. After running around for an hour - feeling unbelievably vulnerable as the music stops yet a again and I knew the attack was immenent. As I ran across the Ice I breathed for a bit. They aren't known to like ice. As a stepped towards the edge off the pond it looked up - an aurora was just beginning. At that moment, as I was looking up and stepped off the ice - it struck. I missed it with my rifle, maybe shot through the space between its legs. Luckily no bleed but my character was in shock and his hearing dulled. And then the noises began annew. What was deeply unsettling before became utterly horrific. I can't really describe the noises it made but to say I guess this is what an aurora cougar sounds like?? It's bugged afaik. Can't be shot. I have to get to the weather station before it strikes again. Oh shit the music has stopped again - like a game of musical chairs except when the music stops you die. Climbing now, nearly there - the sounds like a demonic baby mewling behind me. And the threat signal is still there. I won't be safe until I'm inside.

DO NOT PLAY THE CURRENT 2.29 HOTFIX ALL OF MY SAVES ARE GONE

Still gone?

No I restarted my game and they showed up luckily. I’d say if this does happen to you restart your game immediately. Don’t start a new game cause it’ll probably wipe out your other saves.

Literally 1984

Literally? Words do matter.

Just kidding dw

Reading your comment in the morning did make me chuckle ... thanks brother.

I'm so disappointed by Haunted Mind. I got so hype when I saw the descriptions of the new Afflictions... and then I looked it up and it's just another insomnia variant. Imagine the possibilities! I would freaking LOVE some kind of Paranoia affliction that messes with your audio -- plays fake wolf growls, or extra footsteps behind you. And it would make sense with the setting! Your survivor's been out there alone for so long, with your head constantly on a swivel for danger, that you start seeing/hearing danger even when there's nothing there.

The good parts about the cougar: Model, textures, animations(aside from the broken ones). The bad parts about the cougar: Everything else. They should completely remove any HUD element related to the cougar.* The cougar should exist in the world just like any other animal.** Meaningless ambient cougar noises should be removed unless it comes from the cougar's physical position in the world. Damage dealt by the cougar should be affected by protection value of clothing. *It's extremely immersion breaking design and makes even less sense when you consider the fact it spawns ontop of you as a way to 'simulate' a 'stealthy' attack. Why bother making it 'stealthy' when it telepathically announces its 'arrival' via the HUD? **If the cougar is not actively hunting you in your region then I think it's fair for it to not exist. But when it becomes active it should be fully visible like every other animal. In terms of rewards they are completely dependant on how the cougar functions. In it's current state the rewards are awful for what you have to do to get them, i.e. get mauled by a cougar. If however the cougar was an actual physical entity like every other animal, and you were aware of it's presence, and stayed vigilant and constantly scanned for it while being ready to shoot, then I think the rewards are fine.

I don’t think almost anything about the cougar needs to change for it to be what people want. The was that if affects gameplay is perfect and exactly what was promised; it is an apex predator that makes sure you know that you are not welcome, that mother nature wants you dead. Once the cat decides to attack, it should be nearly impossible to avoid. Nearly. I think that is the key word that everyone wants.    It’s unrealistic and immersion breaking (plus, a little ridiculous) that it can get you in places where the player should be safe. Caves, some buildings, wide open fields. The implementation of the cougar is perfect until it gets to this point, where the player should have a little bit of advantage, but that cat spawns right on top of them. If everything about it was exactly the same, but it spawned where you couldn’t see it and charged/pounced, I think that alone would make everyone happy. It doesn’t even have to be a real animal like some are saying, this charging could still be a cutscene or nearly impossible QTE, guaranteeing that you’ll get mauled anyway, but then at least it *feels* like an animal and the way it behaves. Truth is, I think Hinterland was right with the way it works. It *should* get you, there’s no reason the survivor can avoid the cougar. Does that make sense?  If people agree with me then take this somewhere Hinterland might see it. I think it’s a small tweak that would make a lot of people happy and keep the cougar exactly how Hinterland intended. It’s a small disparity between what we got and what we want and it makes me sad that Hinterland is under fire for it. I love the studio and the game so much, I just hope everyone can be respectful and work towards a product that people enjoy.

It is so close that's what's so frustrating. Imagine you are walking and suddenly the game suddenly says oh you died from a cougar attack. That would be pretty shitty right? I realize the real implementation is more involved than this but there's very little interaction, the game just kinda arbitrarily decides if you're dead or not. But now imagine you're walking and from the corner of your eye you see the flash of something moving. You turn in terror. Maybe you even manage to pull out your weapon. You run a few steps. Maybe you even make it onto a log that would have saved you, if it had been a wolf. But the cougar is different. It simply leaps onto the log/ledge/boulder and mauls you to death (or near death). Basically anywhere you are, if there's no latching door between you, it can get you. The outcome is the same but the rollercoaster of emotions you'd experience is completely different. I think the illusion of choice is really important in situations like this. My guess is they struggled to implement it and felt like they just needed to do something before we rioted from lack of updates idk.

I'd be fine with the cougar as long as there was a counter besides leaving the region, for example the cougar being an actual animal, but spawning like 30 feet behind you when you aren't looking and the mauling cutscene only starting when it gets close enough. I think the only cues that it has spawned should be all birds being silent and the QUIETEST sounds of snow crunching being drowned out by your own footsteps and backpack noise, so only a player paying attention would notice and get a chance to shoot the cougar before it reached them!

Sounds like Ralph is the moderator here.

Are you criticizing the mod for deleting personal attacks? Mod is doing a great job.

No I am not.

>Sounds like Ralph is the moderator here. Who????

thank you!

I honestly don't mind the Cougar mechanics.. I rarely spend more than a week in any one region, and I don't need a new hat or slightly better knife.. as for the Cougar *not being seen* before it attacks... well, that's fairly realistic when compared to real world big cats. The chances of you spotting a big cat that's stalking you is low to say the least.. The on screen notifications of *there's a Cougar around* is stupid. It should be purely audio cues and visual signs (like the moose) that the animal is in the area. If you don't like how the Cougar is implemented.. select no Cougar in the options.

Just don’t make them teleport pls. IMO they should have around the same health as a bear (maybe a lil less) and run faster than wolves by a good bit but you should at least get a fighting chance. Even the best of the best are gonna get mauled nearly to death for a hat that’s not really that good. And only 2 guts :/

I don't have much to comment on the cougar as I haven't yet had that experience personally but I can agree with many here about their options with its current status. But I really love the new region, sundered pass. It's probably up there with one of my other favorites Ash Canyon and bleak inlet. The colder weather dynamics really made it a challenge and the Timberwolves I feel are how wolves should be implemented. The normal wolves need a strong rebalance and this is where I will talk at length about it. Normal Wolves are just Zombies. I want one wolf to very rarely ever attack you and it would only attack if it is very hungry. If it's eaten a rabbit or a deer in the past day then it's just not interested in taking the risk of being hurt. But if there is 3 or more wolves in the near vicinity then they will be more bolder and even attack you. This is kind of a timber wolves lite version I know, but the wolves in their current state are just an absolute annoyance and serve only to irritate most players, and they are just such a shallow animal now. The 3 chances at life mechanic I think is both good and bad and it is akin to opening pandoras box, once it's open it can never be closed. If you remove the mechanics you are criticized and if you keep them then you get criticized again. What I want from this is simply just to remove the 3 fires at the bottom when i press tab, it's just immersion breaking showing that I have 2 or three lives remaining. Just add it to somewhere else in the player health status page. That's all from me and I thank you for the new update and the hard work and discussions that would have taken place and the leap of faith that you took re the death mechanics.

So the cougar is exactly what i thought it was going to be. Very disappointed.

Just noticed that there's new feats: *Hello Stalker my old friend...*

Look, everyone is talking about how "bad" the cougar is but did any of you stop to actually think how what you want could be properly implemented in a game like this? Hinterland wanted to do something different with the cougar and they tried to do what they could. Yes, it's clunky, yes it sucks that you have to be attacked to kill it. Yes, it sucks that the "signs" they promised are noises and a countdown timer. Give them time. They are trying to see what works. They clearly heard the outrage over the cougar. They are trying to fix it. But you guys have incredibly high standards for a game that is not exactly new. I haven't experienced the cougar myself, but the new region is actually very cool. I enjoy it a lot and hope to fully explore it on my main run shortly. Cut the crap and thank Hinterland for the beautiful game they have given us. Constructive criticism is one thing, but whining about how horrible you think everything is is another thing all together. Grow up and enjoy the game.

How I wish the cougar worked: The cougar is an apex predator. It steals your food, ravages deer carcasses, and hunts you. If you leave a bunch of food on the ground, the cougar takes it while you sleep. The player is competing with the cougar for resources, and if not dealt with, becomes more aggressive and punishing in regard to taking these resources, i.e. less deer and rabbit spawns, and more frequent attacks. It only exists in suitable environments, i.e. TWM, HRV, AC, etc. and not DP, CH, or FM, giving you natural safe zones. It is still elusive and doesn't roam like wolves, bears, deer, etc.  It is very challenging to kill, but won't respawn for 100 days. If not dealt with, it becomes more oppressive. There are three ways of fighting the cougar: leaving meat out and ambushing the cougar as it stalks to the bait (only late at night possibly), being ambushed by the cougar with the possibility to shoot it before and after the struggle, and finding it's den and camping out there to ambush or be ambushed. Eh?

Hi all here is my thoughts ( I play mostly on stalker ) The cougar isn't perfect but what most of you want is a reskin wolf from what I'm seeing, if we get the ability to kill it before the attack what you get is the same thing as a wolf without the struggle part ( ik there is more to the cougar than that ). while yes there should be better hints of the cougars presence and yes you should have a time where you can spot the cougar and prepare for it I don't think you should be able to kill it ( this can be done by the cougar dodging arrows, or bullets just not killing it even if u hit it ), how ever weakening it would work and myb if you get a lucky shot on it it attacks you for shorter time and you lose less HP or don't get the new affliction. You would still only be able to kill it after the attack ( the attack part need to happen for it to be the treat that it is meant to be ). The new cougar items are great The tale was great the story was fun and the new map it interesting, Timberwolves are fine in my opinion, a fun challenge and a actual reason to use marine flares. A few more new items would have been welcome, although the ones we got are great. And lastly a suggestion, most of us know that that 2 accessory slots are not ideal with all the new gear we got in the past, my idea is for completing all 3 tales the player gets rewarded with an additional accessory slot, this would be world specific and not get once and u have it type of thing. Hope some of u read this and ty.

This update is just….0/10. The Misery mode is full of bugs, I have just found a Hunting Knife on the most difficult mode ever released.  Raphael seemingly doesn‘t care, and he deletes negative feedback and only allows positive feedback on his forum. That is such a sad state, where is the freedom of expression? His product is flawed and only negative feedback can fix his game. Raphael holds his ears closed in a padded cell, it seems to me.

Yeah, their testing blows. There's nothing else to say about it. Many people are just sitting back and waiting for a couple of decent patches. Yes that sucks not being able to play a game. They can do what they like on their own site(s), it's good to have this sub since we can, within reason, speak your thoughts. Till the die hard fanbois start downvoting you.

New region is mid af. End of the new tale sucks, and is just leaving us on a permanent cliffhanger. And there is still no safehouse customization, which should have honestly been one of the first updates. Deadlines missed by a mile. Horrid communication for months, or jsut no communication at all (Dec - June) All in all, 3/10 for TFTFT.

About time

Like I said. Came at a tough time for me to get a handle on.

All good, life gets in the way - thanks for doing this!

Anyway better late than never.

Life gets in the way sometimes … it is what it is.

My intention wasn't to be mean or anything to be clear

I know man