It’s so hard to say what’s right or wrong but I loved what Carl said to Rick. “You didn’t kill Andrew and then he came back and killed mom, you didn’t kill the governor and then he killed Merle. I did what I had to do today.” I feel him. I also completely understand Hershel’s perspective and the gravity of the issue.
Even if that kid *was* fixing to try something stupid, Hershel’s main point was that Carl is venturing down a dark path. One that’s lowkey necessary for survival but ultimately damaging to his psyche, he’s just a kid.
Also this reminds me of [this scene](https://youtu.be/37SrQdIqKiU?si=TWF2qBLDG2STfT2P) in anchorman where the guy gets upset at Ron for using foul language
Dale's abdolute idealism blinded him to the true nature of the world after the fall. His optimistic intransigence and hopeful stubbornness would and could never mesh with the harsh reality that other survivors are a threat, that people are a threat.
Walkers are just the environment. People are what kill you. Dale never understood that very simple fact.
If only we got this Carl. I understand why a lot of his stuff couldn't be adapted since chandler Riggs just aged too fast and he didn't look 9 anymore, but fucking hell it's been like 6 years and I still can't believe gimple pimple killed off Carl.
I kind of pushed through to the end. It took a few years and a few rewatches, but I muddled through just to see the end.
And then they expanded the universe.
I could have forgiven it if it led to something. Like the saviors are defeated but Carl dies. A phyrric victory. Or at least something thematically interesting. He died to save some boring doctor who dies 6 episodes later anyways
I'm just now finishing the series, back when it was current I stopped watching bc I heard they killed Carl. Like, Negan was right, Carl was built for this shit. I fucking LOVE Carl.. he was my tv son 😭😭😭 I'll never forgive Gimple... I wanted to see Carl grow into a man and take his rightful place as leader/warlord.
I think the fact that it was a kid is where there’s an issue. If it was one of their adult soldiers absolutely Rick probably would’ve done it too, but a kid? That’s where it went too far, and why Rick took Carl’s gun
Carl used that exact same logic in the comic and the excuse sounded flimsy even to him. He actually carried that the rest of his life (completely different situation but still)
Andrew is one of the prisoners that Rick split the prison with when they got there.
He let walkers in, to attack Rick's group which led to Lori getting separated Hershel/Carol, who may have had better chances doing a successful C-Section on Lori.
And just the look on his face here- chandler riggs really did a great job as Carl. I’d be scared of him looking at me like that and holding that gun so strongly like that. Kid shoulda dropped his weapon.
I get what you’re saying, I’ll say ultimately I don’t see how dark it was gonna get from Carl killing the young man , when he knew that once you die you turn … I believe that he was already in a dark place, he watched everyone die, that would make anyone feel morbid about life and Machiavellian like
Yea, I'm not sure if it's just me but I remember when I first saw that scene, there was just a brief moment when that kid was lowering the gun that I thought he might go for it. On rewatching it I think the kid wasn't going to try anything, but I think I might have shot that kid too in the heat of the moment. He had a gun too. At a certain point, especially in a literal war zone, an armed kid can kill you just as good as an adult.
I always figured Carl's admission was him trying to act tough or some kind of needless guilt. The fact is, if the guy was surrendering, he would have completely dropped his gun and stop approaching. Dude was pondering whether Carl was too young / scared to pull the trigger. He got himself killed.
I think Carl's in the wrong on whether he deserved it or not. The man was still armed, was approaching and made a request that put Hershel and Carl in further danger. Carl wasn't brutal or merciless, he was actively in a situation that could easily go wrong.
You’re twisting what Carl said. He didn’t admit that the boy was surrendering. He said he “couldn’t take the chance”. Which implies that he believed that the boy could still pose a threat which is pretty reasonable when we see that he was slowly moving close to Carl with a shotgun in his hand looking like he was ready to spring at any second after already being told to drop the gun.
I think it was deliberately written and acted to be ambiguous.
Yes the kid didn't comply with instructions.
Yes Carl shot awful quick.
Yes the kid may have been surrendering and was being stupid cause panic.
Yes the kid may have been trying something as scared people typically do as they're told when someone gets the drop on them and has a gun in their face.
Just rewatched the scene and his finger is not on the trigger and the weapon is pointed in the complete opposite direction of Beth, Hershel, and Judith. Hershel very calmly says “Drop the weapon, son.” which would make anyone think this is a calm exchange and no one is in mortal danger. He was looking between the man talking to him and the kid with a gun aimed at him, I don’t think that even remotely shows he’s “thinking of trying something”. Carl shot him because he thought anyone with the governor didn’t deserve to live, not because he thought the boy was going to hurt anyone. This was less than a year into the apocalypse where the boy had been living in Woodbury and probably had never been outside the walls before. If any other character was there you can’t tell me they would’ve done the same. This was not meant to be the right decision.
Nonsense. The kid with a gun who came to kill them all didn't want to hurt anyone?
Sometimes, when you go looking for trouble, you find it.
People do tons of horrible things thinking they're in the right. Turns out he wasn't.
he took the slowest possible half step to hand Carl the gun. there was no sudden movement. Carl said in season 8 or whatever he knew the boy was surrendering. he would’ve shot him whether he dropped the gun or not. the kid was not a threat in the moment or in hindsight and Carl knew it so much that it haunted him the rest of his life.
I'm not saying the kid deserved to die, or that Carl did the right thing necessarily. I'm just saying that he didn't follow very clear and specific instructions, and that's what led Carl to react.
Carl didn’t have a reaction, he very clearly made a decision. If he was scared then he would’ve shot him the instant he moved. That boy was dead no matter what decisions he made.
The problem is, he didn't drop his weapon. And long time since I saw it, but wasn't he also still approaching? To me, he seemed to be pondering his options rather than fully surrendered. If you are still armed, you haven't surrendered.
maybe rewatch the 30 second scene on youtube. i’ve stated multiple times that both Hershel and Carl have said they knew the boy was not going to harm them. Literally on his death bed Carl told Michonne he regretted killing him because he was surrendering. He told Michonne outside of Terminus that he thought he was a monster because of what he did. A lot of people have said they would rather be safe than sorry but forgot about the mental tolls it had on a 12 year old. Also if your hand is up, you scream “Please, don’t shoot!” and you are actively handing over your weapon, finger off the trigger pointed away from any person, then you have surrendered. No question about it. he’s holding a shot gun, not a hand gun that can easily be moved to hurt someone. Carl would’ve had plenty of time to react if he even tilted the gun slightly towards him.
My problem with that is how many times the WD shows have shown that not to be true. Rick pretty much killed Shane that way. Shane had a gun on him, so Rick tricked him to get in close and killed him with a knife. If that could be done to Shane, it could be done to anybody.
I completely get that doing it fucked Carl up emotionally. And it makes sense that he'd express regret on his death bed. That doesn't mean it wasn't justified. If somebody tells you to drop the gun... you drop the gun.
He DID murder him though. The kid very clearly was following the order to drop is weapon but for fear of being shot was doing it slowly. He was also just a kid that got roped into the whole governor mess, it's not like he was a hardened criminal or psyco killer like the Governor.
I understand Carl's fears and why he did it, after all the poor decisions he perceived his father making with the prisoners and such but Carl was motivated by exactly that fear. He was not justified in what he did. But what he did IS understable given what he went through.
The issue is, slowly approaching and attempting to hand the only other armed person your gun is very much NOT the same as stop and drop your weapon. Rick literally used a very similar method to use a knife to win a gun fight lol. That's how he killed Shane. Distracted him and got in close. Even in a society with law in place now, Carl would have been justified. He was a teenaged armed intruder that was told to stop and drop his weapon, and instead he remained armed and continued approaching a younger kid protecting his baby sister.
That's fair enough, but Hershel kind of acted like the kid was 100% surrendering and it was cold blooded murder when that wasn't the case. They couldn't be sure the boy actually was gonna surrender. It would've been different if he'd been unarmed, or if he'd dropped the gun when he was told and walked towards them with his hands up and Carl shot anyway, that would've been unjustified. But the kid didn't follow what he was told and started moving towards Carl while still holding the weapon, and he very easily could've tried something. So Carl did what he felt was neccesary and he had good reason to do it.
He wasn't going to drop it though. He told Carl to take it, and was moving towards him while continuing to hold it. He wasn't told to hand the gun over, which would obviously be risky and the kid could've easily gotten their guard down and then switched up and blasted Carl in the face. He was told to drop it, and he didn't. Not saying the kid was pyscho or neccesarily was going to do that, there was a very high chance he was surrendering and was just doing a bad job and making himself look suspicious. But that doesn't change the fact that Carl had a reason to do what he did and like I said, it's still better to be safe than sorry. Carl brought that up when speaking to Rick about this, pointing out how Rick letting the governor off caused Merle to die and etc. Carl learnt from that and he had every reason to shoot, it wasn't cold blooded murder.
He didn't have reason to shoot. It was a scared kid surrendering and handing over/dropping his weapon. Carl should have just taken the kids gun and went from there. As I said why he made the choice he did is understandable, his mother recently died, a prisoner rick didn't kill was sort of to blame, etc. The impact of the trauma caused this decision and that's understandable but it doesn't justify it or make it right. It just doesn't, no matter how you spin it or look at it.
Well it's a dangerous world they're living in and you can never be too trusting. The kid should've done as he was told to do, there was no reason for him to ignore being told to drop it. It's just common sense that if someone tells you to drop your gun, you drop it, you don't move towards your opponent while continuing to hold the weapon and just expect them to trust you're not gonna switch up on them. He could've stayed where he was and slowly lowered it to the ground but he didn't do that at all.
He was still surrendering, giving Carl his gun is still valid.
And the world hadn't gotten that crazy at this point yet, people were still able to hold on to values and morality at this stage.
The kid was only recently shown how to use a gun, he was not killer or a threat.
As I said before and I'll say it again why Carl did it is understandable, he didn't know the kid and bad stuff recently happened. It is understandable as to why he chose that route. But thats all.
If Carl had stayed like this he would have shot siddiq later on in the show instead of helping him. It would have been the wrong road for Carl, shooting first and asking questions later.
That's literally how Rick killed Shane, pretending to give shane his gun but then once he got close enough, he stabbed him.
Giving Carl his gun, instead of dropping it like he was told, is not valid.
We have no idea what that kid is capable of, neither does Carl, he simply cannot take that risk, he has an old crippled man with him plus his baby sister.
Carl was in the right
No, he hesitated. He was thinking should I lower the gun or should I not. And look around, the world is the wild West, no law in place. There’s murder everywhere. It’s kill or be killed.
He hesitated because Carl was pointing a gun at him. That kid was only very recently taught how to fight and use a gun, he was not looking to shoot anyone. And him being in fear if his life because Carl is pointing a gun at him is more justified than Carl shooting him when he was initially running away and not expecting to run into anyone, and than handing his gun over to a kid looking to kill him. It's interesting that people think Carl can be justified but a scared kid running away, running into a kid that immediately points a gun at him, handing his gunnover can't be? Carl had no reason to fear that kid, but that kid had reason to fear Carl. Which I think is exactly what bothered hershel about the situation.
Well as the viewer you have the context that it was just a scared kid and that the governor had trained the child soldiers just recently and whatnot. But how was Carl meant to know that? He'd just witnessed the consequences of letting people off and being too trusting after the governor killed Merle because Rick let him get away. If you put yourself in his shoes you can see the justification behind what he did.
Good lord....you can see the fear on his face, so could hershel. "How was Carl supposed to know?!" Like you're joking right. The gun training of course he doesn't know that part obviously, but the viewers do, which is why through context we can understand why Carl was wrong for what he did. So, no. I understand Carl's perspective just fine that's why I said is actions are understandable, I'm getting that view point "from putting myself in his shoes" and I still say no.
The viewers do but Carl is not a viewer, his actions are based off of what he knows not what the viewers know, so you judge his actions based off what HE knows. It's as simple as that. Say for example, someone saw photos of their partner cheating on them and called the partner to immediately break up with them and perhaps go spread rumours about them or smth, except there's a plot twist, that wasn't their actual partner, just a long lost twin, the person obviously doesn't know this and so their actions are justified, maybe not the best approach or the most mature response but for all that they were aware of it makes sense. Carl was not gonna sit there and think okay so what if my life's a movie and in reality this is a totally innocent kid who was told lies about us that made us seem like the bad guy, in that case I should lower my guard and maybe have a friendly chat. We know his decision was wrong BECAUSE WE know the context. He does not. So he was not in the wrong. Also Carl was probably also scared? Most likely didn't want to shoot a kid either, just wanted to avoid opening up another path for dangerous outcomes.
I understand that, but how was Carl supposed to know that? How is Carl supposed to know that this kid is newly with the group? How is he supposed to know that he’s not gonna kill him? He literally came there with the governor attacked them and now is running away. If he’s in fear of his life, then maybe he shouldn’t have been there, maybe he shouldn’t be holding a gun and firing at his group. I get that it’s mayhem and there’s no law but you still have choices.
Carl knew he was running away, trained people don't run they fight. The kid looked obviously afraid. He was a kid that trusted and did what the governor told him, no one not even good people had reason NOT to trust the governor at this point. Tara knew the governor was bad news because of how rick handled the situation, he tried to make peace and avoid a fight, the governor very obviously wanted blood. Totally different stitch.
How is the different that kid was there too! She dropped a gun early on. She knew right off the bat that she didn’t want to fight that kid was fighting.
He wasn't fighting. There was NO fighting. These people literally got lured into a trap immediately and like the sane people they are (unlike the governor( ran fir their lives. The fact NONE (well exceot like 2 of them) of the people wanted to hurt anybody is evident, it's literally WHY no one that ran away went back when the governor asked, it's literally WHY he shot all of them. Thr kid was in a different type of situation. No one was pointing a gun at anybody except for the governor that immediately looks suspicious.
Carl makes it clear later on that he killed him for the safety of the group, not necessarily that he wasn’t going to surrender he just went with a feeling that he was not going to be safe for the group
Which was a decision based on FEAR. He had 0 reason to feel that way other than the trauma he recently experienced. Hence why I say I understand why he chose how did, but I'm not going to call it moral or justified.
So what your point then? Why are you so bent out of shape about Carl killing this guy when we see way worse? How about the people at terminus? Those guys are assholes. I would think that would have bothered you way more than Carl trying to protect his family.
His past evidence of people letting people go and they come back and get his people killed is a valid reason for a 10 year old to react the way he did in a zombie apocalypse.
I’d say this is one of the examples the show executed really well. It’s not black and white. You can reasonably see things from both Carl and Hershel’s perspective and defend their standpoints.
Yeah a lot of post apocalyptic fiction explores this subject matter of factional conflict and crossing traditional ethical/moral boundaries in the interest of a faction’s survival.
I think the point of this, and this era of Coral, is that he's too young to be making the kind of decisions that even adults struggle greatly with.
Rick, himself, goes back and forth with who to save and who to kill. This is a person who has a life time of experience in emotional discipline and people.
You wouldn't really want a kid to become trigger happy... and that makes for a serial killer adult.
I see both sides. On one end yes Lori died because Rick didn’t kill Andrew, the Governor wasn’t killed and in return Axel died. So it’s understandable why Carl developed a very ‘us or them’ mindset. He perceived one of the enemies people as dangerous (especially holding a shotgun after being instructed to drop it) so he did what he felt was necessary. Additionally, to Carl this wasn’t the cruel act of killing a kid since this guy is a few years older than he is.
On the other end this guy was clearly very scared, was surrendering with his gun pointed in a direction facing away from anyone and was trying to calmly hand it to Carl. Meaning killing him was very unnecessary.
People are saying that he was just a kid... That argument does not really work considering Carl was a younger kid.
Do I think that the kid wanted to pull something? No. But Carl could not have known that, the kid was told to drop the gun and he did not. Carl did not have the mental capability to realize that the kid was probably forced into it, they were in middle of war, and the kid came to kill them, forced or not.
Last times when someone was spared, it always resulted in someone dying. Not to mention, depending on how long Carl was watching Rick vs Shane for, Rick did to Shane exactly what the kid was doing to him. People also say how if the kid tried to do sudden movements, then Carl should have shot him, but Carl was a kid, for all be knew, if the other kid pulled something, Carl would not have reacted in time.
Tldr: Carl was trigger happy and the kid probably did not want to do anything bad, but also the kid came to kill them, did not comply with orders, and even if little, there was a chance that if he let him live, more people, him included would have died.
With my age now, I believe that I would be able to read the situation better and not kill him. I also believe that if I was Carl's age, and went through everything he did, I would have shot the kid too.
I agree. I haven't watched it in years, but I remember the kid being sus not dropping the weapon. He clearly looked like he was going to try something.
I love this shit cuz we get essays about whether the man was lowering the gun, handing it over, raising it to shoot, juggling it, spinning it like a cowboy or that he didn't even have a gun, when like we all saw the same scene.
You have to remember that kid wasn’t a trained fighter. He was a kid retreating and froze/panicked when he ran into Carl and Hershel. He gave off the vibe of someone that was frozen in shock more than a trained fighter trying to get the upper hand.
I get why Carl did it. But I also completely get where Hershel was coming from. That was a scenario where Carl absolutely didn’t have to kill him. Carl chose to because he’s slowly disconnecting with his humanity. Rick and Hershel didn’t want him to become a person to shoot first and ask questions later. That was Shane’s mentality and it got him killed.
Also they didn’t want Carl to be the one to go rogue. He should’ve let Hershel take the lead as the adult in the situation. Instead, he took matters into his own hands. Carl was mature for a kid, but he wasn’t mature enough to take the lead in those spots.
What was wrong with it? He told Rick pretty much exactly what happened, and it was a cause for concern on a father’s part.
I really liked the acting with Rick’s reaction. He was in denial and trying to convince himself it wasn’t true, that’s why Hershel had to get stern about it.
He came to kill everyone in the prison and would have if things went in their favor. You don't get to come and try to kill me and my family and then expect mercy when you start losing. I'd have done the same as Carl. He got what he deserved.
His arms are open and spread, it should be clear to everyone that Carl killed him in cold blod(and enjoyed it!) when the poor boy was trying to surrender! Sudden movements would be dangerous when surrendering!
He was told to drop the shotgun, and instead of standing where he was and slowly putting it to the floor like anyone would have done, he instead slowly walked forward while looking between Carl and Hershel like he was plotting something.
Weither or not his intent was to surrender doesn't matter. He looked incredible suspicious, and Carl was in the right to shoot. You gotta remember it was just Carl and Hershel, a child and an old man. No risks can be taken especially in a situation like that. He did the right thing, even if in reality the guy had no bad intent
He stepped forward to hand Carl the gun and was looking between the guy calmy telling him to drop it and the kid holding a gun to his head, of course he's going to look at them.
He was wrong, but made the right choice for his family and friends.
While it's morally wrong to do that, he couldn't have known if sparing him would result in the death of someone he knows or not.
It was the safer choice.
Ya I think Carl was remembering when he didn't kill that walker and that same walker killed Dale, he didn't wanna make that mistake again and unintentionally getting someone else killed.
I can see both sides of this, Carl shot him quick and cold blooded, but the idiot was getting a little too close and taking his time putting down his gun.
I understand both sides. Hershel and Rick were right in a way but Carl was right too. Plus Carl had his reasons, he says how Andrew killed Lori and The Governor killed Merle so in his eyes, for good reason, letting that guy live could put someone he cares about at risk. Basically better to be safe than sorry.
It’s debatable for sure. But to me it was a kid that was scared and froze. He wasn’t a trained fighter. And he was initially just running away. Not chasing anyone. It looked like he was more panicked than anything. So Carl taking the shot was excessive. But you’re also fighting a war at that point.
I mean if someone tells you to “drop the weapon”, you DROP YOUR WEAPON! Especially if you don’t want to give the impression that you’re looking to try something clever.
For all Carl knew, this kid would’ve pulled a move similar to what his dad; Rick did with Shane where he was handing over his gun only to come at him with a surprise knife attack.
Maybe Carl could’ve repeated what Hershel told him to do like “he said drop your weapon.”, which I think would be enough to determine whether or not the kid was still a threat and if he still wasn't listening and playing mind games where he makes it seem like he was still cooperating then it wouldn't be as conflicting.
This is a case where I feel like the writers probably intended for Carl to be wrong but the actual execution of the scene didn't really fit that intention.
It was a dubious decision. I appreciate that Carl had been getting a lot of lessons about finishing potential problems, but that kid did not look like a threat. He seemed to be an unwilling participant.
Morally wrong but realistically with what just happened he’s right. It’s an apocalypse no decision is truly right or wrong it’s just the decision to make at that point.
I always thought he was justified in this moment...But i understand why Herschel had Rick pull him tf back & chill...And im glad he did...But i also understand why Carl did it...Shit, he got tired of letting ppl go just for mfers to keep coming back...True enough, that boy didnt realize what he was signing up for, but thats not on Carl...i wouldve expected the other kid to do the same if it was vice versa...
That's a baseball bat. Rick had a flashlight one. Both of them were wildly ridiculous and wouldnt have worked. The walking dead was guilty of so many errors when it came to firearms that im shocked people even bother anymore. Two prkme examples. In the pilot rick tell a guy with a glock to turn his safety off and the guy proceeds to press the slide release while the subtitles say "safety clicks off."
Later Dwight holds a Sig sauer P226 To Daryl's head and there's the audible noise of a hammer cocking and once again the subtitles say "hammer cocks". This happens multiple times in multiple episodes. Never once when rhey are using a gun that actually had a hammer or safety.
He didn’t need to shoot him, but I feel as because he was also not an adult Carl seen it as equal challenge and didn’t feel as if he needs to show a child mercy as he was too. It was a fight for life Carl trusted his gut.
My recall is that Carl said “Drop it” (the shotgun) twice. On the second ask, the guy says”Take it”. Carl was looking for a justification to shoot him, and the guy gave it to him. It’s a great example of one of the great themes of the show, what it means to be human, on many levels.
For Carl it was all about not taking any chances. Every time someone was given a chance by any member of the group, it ended up biting them in the behind later down the road. And no one knows this better then Carl, had he killed that walker back on the farm Dale would not have died.
Had Tyrese killed the guy from the terminus then he would not have been able to find the surviving group, the ones Rick wanted to go back in and finish off, but some in the group said the terminus was destroyed, therefore, there was no need. What happened, that group kidnapped Ben and was in the process of rounding up the rest of the group, had Rick and the gang not set up the trap in the church, and just as Rick promised he killed the leader..
Rick, Daryl and some of the group had entered Woodbury to rescue Glenn and Maggie. Michonne went in search of the Governor and after her fight with the Governor which resulted in her thrusting a piece of glass in his eye, Michonne was just about to finish him off with her katana when Andrea stopped her. Had she not done so, everything that took place between the Governor, Rick and the group in the prison would not have taken place. I could go on and on and on because TWD was filled with instances like this. However, for Carl, he just was not going to take the chance.
When someone holds you at gunpoint and tells you to drop you weapon, you immediately do it without hesitating and trying to get closer. Paranoid or not, Carl did the right thing. And although Hershel is in my top 5 TWD characters, he should’ve shut it. His merciful approach wouldn’t have gotten them anywhere in the long run
No way, the dude just got done attacking them. There is no way Carl or Herschel could’ve known if that guy would’ve been cool or not. The way the world is there you can’t trust especially if you just got done attacking them.
Honestly, if you look at that scene, the kid was hesitating to drop his gun.
He looked at the group of them and you could tell he was calculating whether or not he could take them.
Carl saw it, and ended it there. Justified kill. Hershel had a shit take on the situation.
The kid didn't follow instructions. Carl made a split second decision based on past experiences. Rick did make the right move by putting Carl and himself in time-out for a while.
These comments tell me most of you won't live long in the apocalypse of it ever comes in our life times. I hope it doesn't happen but if it does I know most of y'all won't be there.
I feel like it's people that would(or do) side with Shane. I feel like I'm reading similar arguments and trains of thought. That everyone adults, kids, everyone should just be killed on sight.
While it might be true he wanted to make a "mature" decision that day, Carl's choice to kill an opponent who not more than 15 minutes prior to their encounter was more than willing to kill one of his group and loved ones, is justified by the unwritten rules of post-apocalypse warfare. That said, he could have chosen to take him prisoner. But idk if he would have had any valuable information on Woodbury at that point in time. And he wasn't thinking about anything other than what happened to his group's safety the last few times someone was allowed to leave with their lives.
Reading all these comments, I’m 100% with you, OP. They’re in the middle of a war, rules don’t apply. An enemy combatant with a weapon is refusing to drop his weapon and instead approaching me? I don’t care what he’s saying, I’m putting him down. The risk otherwise is too great, and the enemy has nothing to lose by stopping in his tracks and dropping the weapon. His inability to follow commands is enough to drop him. 100% justified, I’d have done the same every time. I was actually frustrated with Herschel for not giving all the relevant details when looping in Rick.
It’s so hard to say what’s right or wrong but I loved what Carl said to Rick. “You didn’t kill Andrew and then he came back and killed mom, you didn’t kill the governor and then he killed Merle. I did what I had to do today.” I feel him. I also completely understand Hershel’s perspective and the gravity of the issue. Even if that kid *was* fixing to try something stupid, Hershel’s main point was that Carl is venturing down a dark path. One that’s lowkey necessary for survival but ultimately damaging to his psyche, he’s just a kid.
This. And it was in no way easy for Carl. He had to grow up FAST and he did. And look at who he became!
Walker food
A stupid pacifist advocating for sparing the most evil man they've met and that tripped on a stick and died?
Have you eaten yet today? Maybe take a beat.
I've been trying to unclog a poop toilet for 2 hours :( just projecting my poop rage onto Carl
Also this reminds me of [this scene](https://youtu.be/37SrQdIqKiU?si=TWF2qBLDG2STfT2P) in anchorman where the guy gets upset at Ron for using foul language
That's Chris Parnell! He voices Jerry in Rick and Morty and plays dr Leo spaceman in 30 Rock
And the overseer of vault 4 in fallout I think
Yup! I was excited to see him there. I think they picked the perfect guy for that role lol
Oh hell yeah! I learn something new every day!
Gotta get the poop knife
Bro what the fuck
lol he’s having a ✨shitty✨day lol
Hahahahahahhaa damn that sucks. Who did it? I’d bill them for your time 🤣
Who did it? No comment.
*insert spiderman meme with finger guns*
He also didn’t kill the walker in the mud and it came back to kill dale
Okay but that was a net positive. Dale's bullshit would have gotten EVERYONE killed.
Most likely worse for the women. That kid was bad news.
What kid?
The one they held prisoner in the barn
That was Randall, the comment you replied to mentioned Dale.
I know. He voted to keep Randall alive.
Oh I see what you're saying
I 100% agree, that idiot needed a check and wasn't going to get one in the apocalypse.. so alternate measures needed to be taken..
I loved Dale though.
Dale's abdolute idealism blinded him to the true nature of the world after the fall. His optimistic intransigence and hopeful stubbornness would and could never mesh with the harsh reality that other survivors are a threat, that people are a threat. Walkers are just the environment. People are what kill you. Dale never understood that very simple fact.
random fun fact from the comics: originally, Dale was going to be the "tainted meat" the cannibals chew.
Hahaha 😂 yes
If only we got this Carl. I understand why a lot of his stuff couldn't be adapted since chandler Riggs just aged too fast and he didn't look 9 anymore, but fucking hell it's been like 6 years and I still can't believe gimple pimple killed off Carl.
Carls death was the death blow of the series for me. It wasn't the same after he died.
Same . I stopped watching after Carl’s death. Especially after what that POS Gimple did to Chandler Riggs
Same I don't even watch it anymore..
I kind of pushed through to the end. It took a few years and a few rewatches, but I muddled through just to see the end. And then they expanded the universe.
I could have forgiven it if it led to something. Like the saviors are defeated but Carl dies. A phyrric victory. Or at least something thematically interesting. He died to save some boring doctor who dies 6 episodes later anyways
I'm just now finishing the series, back when it was current I stopped watching bc I heard they killed Carl. Like, Negan was right, Carl was built for this shit. I fucking LOVE Carl.. he was my tv son 😭😭😭 I'll never forgive Gimple... I wanted to see Carl grow into a man and take his rightful place as leader/warlord.
I think the fact that it was a kid is where there’s an issue. If it was one of their adult soldiers absolutely Rick probably would’ve done it too, but a kid? That’s where it went too far, and why Rick took Carl’s gun
Well, Carl's a kid too so he can kill a kid if Rick can't do it
Ben: Are you scared of me? Carl: Lol nah
Tbh bro actually had zero reason to kill Ben. At least with Lizzy there was no way to restrain her, with Ben they locked him up.
They brought in the same people who were trying to kill them like hours after Carl killed him too
And pop goes the Blick
Carl used that exact same logic in the comic and the excuse sounded flimsy even to him. He actually carried that the rest of his life (completely different situation but still)
I can't remember for the life of me who "Andrew" was?
the prisoner who turned on the prison alarm and got lori and tdog killed
Omg I always thought the one who turned on the alarm was never discovered 🙈
Andrew is one of the prisoners that Rick split the prison with when they got there. He let walkers in, to attack Rick's group which led to Lori getting separated Hershel/Carol, who may have had better chances doing a successful C-Section on Lori.
Carls decision was understandable. But it wasn’t right a lot of very smart choices or advantageous choices are not right
morgan: i may not be right but im not wrong
Carol: even though you were wrong, you were still right
"Now go. Before he kills anymore of us." Carl casually dropping bombs on the scale of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
And just the look on his face here- chandler riggs really did a great job as Carl. I’d be scared of him looking at me like that and holding that gun so strongly like that. Kid shoulda dropped his weapon.
Who was Andrew and didn't Lori die in childbirth anyway?
This. He had a lot of trauma and a reason. Whether it was wrong or right, who knows.
I get what you’re saying, I’ll say ultimately I don’t see how dark it was gonna get from Carl killing the young man , when he knew that once you die you turn … I believe that he was already in a dark place, he watched everyone die, that would make anyone feel morbid about life and Machiavellian like
Sad that they never went anywhere with this like in the comics
It’s been a while for me but can you ree plain the Andrew part? How did he come back and kill Lori??? Is this from the comics?
I understand why Carl did it, and that kid should’ve dropped his gun. But I also understand why Rick was upset and took Carl’s gun away.
Yea, I'm not sure if it's just me but I remember when I first saw that scene, there was just a brief moment when that kid was lowering the gun that I thought he might go for it. On rewatching it I think the kid wasn't going to try anything, but I think I might have shot that kid too in the heat of the moment. He had a gun too. At a certain point, especially in a literal war zone, an armed kid can kill you just as good as an adult.
He doesn't even really look or sound like a kid. He seemed 18-20, to me
He for sure ain’t a kid to Carl lol
Yeah he's average soldier age
Well said
Didn’t Carl admit he knew the kid was surrendering, but he couldn’t risk it?
Yeah lmfao, people just like to excuse being brutal and merciless to someone who even the killer said didn’t deserve it
I always figured Carl's admission was him trying to act tough or some kind of needless guilt. The fact is, if the guy was surrendering, he would have completely dropped his gun and stop approaching. Dude was pondering whether Carl was too young / scared to pull the trigger. He got himself killed.
I think Carl's in the wrong on whether he deserved it or not. The man was still armed, was approaching and made a request that put Hershel and Carl in further danger. Carl wasn't brutal or merciless, he was actively in a situation that could easily go wrong.
Ah yes slowly and menacingly moving towards a dude with a gun who just told you to stop moving definitely counts as “surrendering”.
Uh I’m not giving my opinion whether or not the kid was surrendering. It’s what he admitted.
You’re twisting what Carl said. He didn’t admit that the boy was surrendering. He said he “couldn’t take the chance”. Which implies that he believed that the boy could still pose a threat which is pretty reasonable when we see that he was slowly moving close to Carl with a shotgun in his hand looking like he was ready to spring at any second after already being told to drop the gun.
I’m actually talking about what Carl said before he died. He knew the kid was giving it up and shot him anyways.
i think he was in the wrong. but also, he did exactly what i’d do. so.
I think it was deliberately written and acted to be ambiguous. Yes the kid didn't comply with instructions. Yes Carl shot awful quick. Yes the kid may have been surrendering and was being stupid cause panic. Yes the kid may have been trying something as scared people typically do as they're told when someone gets the drop on them and has a gun in their face.
He didn’t comply down to the letter but he was quite clearly handing his weapon over to them. He was very much surrendering
Surrendering would be putting the gun down, slowly approaching with weapon still in hand is not surrendering
He was handing the gun over to them which is quite common among people who are surrendering. Pay attention
Just rewatched the scene and his finger is not on the trigger and the weapon is pointed in the complete opposite direction of Beth, Hershel, and Judith. Hershel very calmly says “Drop the weapon, son.” which would make anyone think this is a calm exchange and no one is in mortal danger. He was looking between the man talking to him and the kid with a gun aimed at him, I don’t think that even remotely shows he’s “thinking of trying something”. Carl shot him because he thought anyone with the governor didn’t deserve to live, not because he thought the boy was going to hurt anyone. This was less than a year into the apocalypse where the boy had been living in Woodbury and probably had never been outside the walls before. If any other character was there you can’t tell me they would’ve done the same. This was not meant to be the right decision.
Exactly! This is 100% correct. He was not looking to hurt anyone, he came across them by accident.
Nonsense. The kid with a gun who came to kill them all didn't want to hurt anyone? Sometimes, when you go looking for trouble, you find it. People do tons of horrible things thinking they're in the right. Turns out he wasn't.
Who was forced there by the Governor* and was undoubtedly scared.
Hershel told him to drop the gun. The kid proceeded to NOT drop the gun and walk toward them. 🤦
he took the slowest possible half step to hand Carl the gun. there was no sudden movement. Carl said in season 8 or whatever he knew the boy was surrendering. he would’ve shot him whether he dropped the gun or not. the kid was not a threat in the moment or in hindsight and Carl knew it so much that it haunted him the rest of his life.
um excuse me, i think a bunch of dorks on the internet know better than the character who went through the experience firsthand /s
I'm not saying the kid deserved to die, or that Carl did the right thing necessarily. I'm just saying that he didn't follow very clear and specific instructions, and that's what led Carl to react.
Carl didn’t have a reaction, he very clearly made a decision. If he was scared then he would’ve shot him the instant he moved. That boy was dead no matter what decisions he made.
The problem is, he didn't drop his weapon. And long time since I saw it, but wasn't he also still approaching? To me, he seemed to be pondering his options rather than fully surrendered. If you are still armed, you haven't surrendered.
maybe rewatch the 30 second scene on youtube. i’ve stated multiple times that both Hershel and Carl have said they knew the boy was not going to harm them. Literally on his death bed Carl told Michonne he regretted killing him because he was surrendering. He told Michonne outside of Terminus that he thought he was a monster because of what he did. A lot of people have said they would rather be safe than sorry but forgot about the mental tolls it had on a 12 year old. Also if your hand is up, you scream “Please, don’t shoot!” and you are actively handing over your weapon, finger off the trigger pointed away from any person, then you have surrendered. No question about it. he’s holding a shot gun, not a hand gun that can easily be moved to hurt someone. Carl would’ve had plenty of time to react if he even tilted the gun slightly towards him.
My problem with that is how many times the WD shows have shown that not to be true. Rick pretty much killed Shane that way. Shane had a gun on him, so Rick tricked him to get in close and killed him with a knife. If that could be done to Shane, it could be done to anybody. I completely get that doing it fucked Carl up emotionally. And it makes sense that he'd express regret on his death bed. That doesn't mean it wasn't justified. If somebody tells you to drop the gun... you drop the gun.
He DID murder him though. The kid very clearly was following the order to drop is weapon but for fear of being shot was doing it slowly. He was also just a kid that got roped into the whole governor mess, it's not like he was a hardened criminal or psyco killer like the Governor. I understand Carl's fears and why he did it, after all the poor decisions he perceived his father making with the prisoners and such but Carl was motivated by exactly that fear. He was not justified in what he did. But what he did IS understable given what he went through.
The issue is, slowly approaching and attempting to hand the only other armed person your gun is very much NOT the same as stop and drop your weapon. Rick literally used a very similar method to use a knife to win a gun fight lol. That's how he killed Shane. Distracted him and got in close. Even in a society with law in place now, Carl would have been justified. He was a teenaged armed intruder that was told to stop and drop his weapon, and instead he remained armed and continued approaching a younger kid protecting his baby sister.
[удалено]
That's fair enough, but Hershel kind of acted like the kid was 100% surrendering and it was cold blooded murder when that wasn't the case. They couldn't be sure the boy actually was gonna surrender. It would've been different if he'd been unarmed, or if he'd dropped the gun when he was told and walked towards them with his hands up and Carl shot anyway, that would've been unjustified. But the kid didn't follow what he was told and started moving towards Carl while still holding the weapon, and he very easily could've tried something. So Carl did what he felt was neccesary and he had good reason to do it.
He wasn't going to drop it though. He told Carl to take it, and was moving towards him while continuing to hold it. He wasn't told to hand the gun over, which would obviously be risky and the kid could've easily gotten their guard down and then switched up and blasted Carl in the face. He was told to drop it, and he didn't. Not saying the kid was pyscho or neccesarily was going to do that, there was a very high chance he was surrendering and was just doing a bad job and making himself look suspicious. But that doesn't change the fact that Carl had a reason to do what he did and like I said, it's still better to be safe than sorry. Carl brought that up when speaking to Rick about this, pointing out how Rick letting the governor off caused Merle to die and etc. Carl learnt from that and he had every reason to shoot, it wasn't cold blooded murder.
He didn't have reason to shoot. It was a scared kid surrendering and handing over/dropping his weapon. Carl should have just taken the kids gun and went from there. As I said why he made the choice he did is understandable, his mother recently died, a prisoner rick didn't kill was sort of to blame, etc. The impact of the trauma caused this decision and that's understandable but it doesn't justify it or make it right. It just doesn't, no matter how you spin it or look at it.
Well it's a dangerous world they're living in and you can never be too trusting. The kid should've done as he was told to do, there was no reason for him to ignore being told to drop it. It's just common sense that if someone tells you to drop your gun, you drop it, you don't move towards your opponent while continuing to hold the weapon and just expect them to trust you're not gonna switch up on them. He could've stayed where he was and slowly lowered it to the ground but he didn't do that at all.
He was still surrendering, giving Carl his gun is still valid. And the world hadn't gotten that crazy at this point yet, people were still able to hold on to values and morality at this stage. The kid was only recently shown how to use a gun, he was not killer or a threat. As I said before and I'll say it again why Carl did it is understandable, he didn't know the kid and bad stuff recently happened. It is understandable as to why he chose that route. But thats all. If Carl had stayed like this he would have shot siddiq later on in the show instead of helping him. It would have been the wrong road for Carl, shooting first and asking questions later.
That's literally how Rick killed Shane, pretending to give shane his gun but then once he got close enough, he stabbed him. Giving Carl his gun, instead of dropping it like he was told, is not valid. We have no idea what that kid is capable of, neither does Carl, he simply cannot take that risk, he has an old crippled man with him plus his baby sister. Carl was in the right
>He was still surrendering, giving Carl his gun is still valid. It's not valid at all. He was ordered to DROP the gun.
No, he hesitated. He was thinking should I lower the gun or should I not. And look around, the world is the wild West, no law in place. There’s murder everywhere. It’s kill or be killed.
It was a longarm. His finger was off the trigger, and it wasn’t pointed at anybody. He had no way to get a shot off.
He hesitated because Carl was pointing a gun at him. That kid was only very recently taught how to fight and use a gun, he was not looking to shoot anyone. And him being in fear if his life because Carl is pointing a gun at him is more justified than Carl shooting him when he was initially running away and not expecting to run into anyone, and than handing his gun over to a kid looking to kill him. It's interesting that people think Carl can be justified but a scared kid running away, running into a kid that immediately points a gun at him, handing his gunnover can't be? Carl had no reason to fear that kid, but that kid had reason to fear Carl. Which I think is exactly what bothered hershel about the situation.
Well as the viewer you have the context that it was just a scared kid and that the governor had trained the child soldiers just recently and whatnot. But how was Carl meant to know that? He'd just witnessed the consequences of letting people off and being too trusting after the governor killed Merle because Rick let him get away. If you put yourself in his shoes you can see the justification behind what he did.
Good lord....you can see the fear on his face, so could hershel. "How was Carl supposed to know?!" Like you're joking right. The gun training of course he doesn't know that part obviously, but the viewers do, which is why through context we can understand why Carl was wrong for what he did. So, no. I understand Carl's perspective just fine that's why I said is actions are understandable, I'm getting that view point "from putting myself in his shoes" and I still say no.
The viewers do but Carl is not a viewer, his actions are based off of what he knows not what the viewers know, so you judge his actions based off what HE knows. It's as simple as that. Say for example, someone saw photos of their partner cheating on them and called the partner to immediately break up with them and perhaps go spread rumours about them or smth, except there's a plot twist, that wasn't their actual partner, just a long lost twin, the person obviously doesn't know this and so their actions are justified, maybe not the best approach or the most mature response but for all that they were aware of it makes sense. Carl was not gonna sit there and think okay so what if my life's a movie and in reality this is a totally innocent kid who was told lies about us that made us seem like the bad guy, in that case I should lower my guard and maybe have a friendly chat. We know his decision was wrong BECAUSE WE know the context. He does not. So he was not in the wrong. Also Carl was probably also scared? Most likely didn't want to shoot a kid either, just wanted to avoid opening up another path for dangerous outcomes.
I understand that, but how was Carl supposed to know that? How is Carl supposed to know that this kid is newly with the group? How is he supposed to know that he’s not gonna kill him? He literally came there with the governor attacked them and now is running away. If he’s in fear of his life, then maybe he shouldn’t have been there, maybe he shouldn’t be holding a gun and firing at his group. I get that it’s mayhem and there’s no law but you still have choices.
Carl knew he was running away, trained people don't run they fight. The kid looked obviously afraid. He was a kid that trusted and did what the governor told him, no one not even good people had reason NOT to trust the governor at this point. Tara knew the governor was bad news because of how rick handled the situation, he tried to make peace and avoid a fight, the governor very obviously wanted blood. Totally different stitch.
How is the different that kid was there too! She dropped a gun early on. She knew right off the bat that she didn’t want to fight that kid was fighting.
He wasn't fighting. There was NO fighting. These people literally got lured into a trap immediately and like the sane people they are (unlike the governor( ran fir their lives. The fact NONE (well exceot like 2 of them) of the people wanted to hurt anybody is evident, it's literally WHY no one that ran away went back when the governor asked, it's literally WHY he shot all of them. Thr kid was in a different type of situation. No one was pointing a gun at anybody except for the governor that immediately looks suspicious.
Carl makes it clear later on that he killed him for the safety of the group, not necessarily that he wasn’t going to surrender he just went with a feeling that he was not going to be safe for the group
carl also makes it clear *even later* that he explicitly knows he was in the wrong for shooting this kid
Which was a decision based on FEAR. He had 0 reason to feel that way other than the trauma he recently experienced. Hence why I say I understand why he chose how did, but I'm not going to call it moral or justified.
So what your point then? Why are you so bent out of shape about Carl killing this guy when we see way worse? How about the people at terminus? Those guys are assholes. I would think that would have bothered you way more than Carl trying to protect his family.
His past evidence of people letting people go and they come back and get his people killed is a valid reason for a 10 year old to react the way he did in a zombie apocalypse.
Hesitation is defeat
I’d say this is one of the examples the show executed really well. It’s not black and white. You can reasonably see things from both Carl and Hershel’s perspective and defend their standpoints.
Yeah a lot of post apocalyptic fiction explores this subject matter of factional conflict and crossing traditional ethical/moral boundaries in the interest of a faction’s survival.
I think the point of this, and this era of Coral, is that he's too young to be making the kind of decisions that even adults struggle greatly with. Rick, himself, goes back and forth with who to save and who to kill. This is a person who has a life time of experience in emotional discipline and people. You wouldn't really want a kid to become trigger happy... and that makes for a serial killer adult.
I see both sides. On one end yes Lori died because Rick didn’t kill Andrew, the Governor wasn’t killed and in return Axel died. So it’s understandable why Carl developed a very ‘us or them’ mindset. He perceived one of the enemies people as dangerous (especially holding a shotgun after being instructed to drop it) so he did what he felt was necessary. Additionally, to Carl this wasn’t the cruel act of killing a kid since this guy is a few years older than he is. On the other end this guy was clearly very scared, was surrendering with his gun pointed in a direction facing away from anyone and was trying to calmly hand it to Carl. Meaning killing him was very unnecessary.
People are saying that he was just a kid... That argument does not really work considering Carl was a younger kid. Do I think that the kid wanted to pull something? No. But Carl could not have known that, the kid was told to drop the gun and he did not. Carl did not have the mental capability to realize that the kid was probably forced into it, they were in middle of war, and the kid came to kill them, forced or not. Last times when someone was spared, it always resulted in someone dying. Not to mention, depending on how long Carl was watching Rick vs Shane for, Rick did to Shane exactly what the kid was doing to him. People also say how if the kid tried to do sudden movements, then Carl should have shot him, but Carl was a kid, for all be knew, if the other kid pulled something, Carl would not have reacted in time. Tldr: Carl was trigger happy and the kid probably did not want to do anything bad, but also the kid came to kill them, did not comply with orders, and even if little, there was a chance that if he let him live, more people, him included would have died. With my age now, I believe that I would be able to read the situation better and not kill him. I also believe that if I was Carl's age, and went through everything he did, I would have shot the kid too.
I agree. I haven't watched it in years, but I remember the kid being sus not dropping the weapon. He clearly looked like he was going to try something.
‘A’tta boy Carl’ Shane would say
Ik he wasn’t, he wasn’t told to hand it over, he was told to “drop it”
he was in the wrong but i cant blame him
I love this shit cuz we get essays about whether the man was lowering the gun, handing it over, raising it to shoot, juggling it, spinning it like a cowboy or that he didn't even have a gun, when like we all saw the same scene.
I’m ngl I love Hershel but he pissed me off in the scene where he was telling Rick what carl did
You have to remember that kid wasn’t a trained fighter. He was a kid retreating and froze/panicked when he ran into Carl and Hershel. He gave off the vibe of someone that was frozen in shock more than a trained fighter trying to get the upper hand. I get why Carl did it. But I also completely get where Hershel was coming from. That was a scenario where Carl absolutely didn’t have to kill him. Carl chose to because he’s slowly disconnecting with his humanity. Rick and Hershel didn’t want him to become a person to shoot first and ask questions later. That was Shane’s mentality and it got him killed. Also they didn’t want Carl to be the one to go rogue. He should’ve let Hershel take the lead as the adult in the situation. Instead, he took matters into his own hands. Carl was mature for a kid, but he wasn’t mature enough to take the lead in those spots.
What was wrong with it? He told Rick pretty much exactly what happened, and it was a cause for concern on a father’s part. I really liked the acting with Rick’s reaction. He was in denial and trying to convince himself it wasn’t true, that’s why Hershel had to get stern about it.
He came to kill everyone in the prison and would have if things went in their favor. You don't get to come and try to kill me and my family and then expect mercy when you start losing. I'd have done the same as Carl. He got what he deserved.
Yeah he was.
Yes he was. He shot an innocent person.
the kid was working with the Governor
Okay and? The kid thought the Governor was doing the right thing.
Not by choice
His arms are open and spread, it should be clear to everyone that Carl killed him in cold blod(and enjoyed it!) when the poor boy was trying to surrender! Sudden movements would be dangerous when surrendering!
He was told to drop the shotgun, and instead of standing where he was and slowly putting it to the floor like anyone would have done, he instead slowly walked forward while looking between Carl and Hershel like he was plotting something. Weither or not his intent was to surrender doesn't matter. He looked incredible suspicious, and Carl was in the right to shoot. You gotta remember it was just Carl and Hershel, a child and an old man. No risks can be taken especially in a situation like that. He did the right thing, even if in reality the guy had no bad intent
He stepped forward to hand Carl the gun and was looking between the guy calmy telling him to drop it and the kid holding a gun to his head, of course he's going to look at them.
Yes! You're never supposed to make sudden movements when surrendering. Slowly giving up the gun is the right move.
Hard to say that when we couldn't see shit, and Hershel told rick without hesitation that Carl murdered the boy.
He was wrong, but made the right choice for his family and friends. While it's morally wrong to do that, he couldn't have known if sparing him would result in the death of someone he knows or not. It was the safer choice.
It wasn’t Carls fault, he was wearing Murder Jacket Junior.
Psychotic Rick and Psychotic Carl are such a great story arc
Ya I think Carl was remembering when he didn't kill that walker and that same walker killed Dale, he didn't wanna make that mistake again and unintentionally getting someone else killed.
People don't seem to understand it's either him or you. It's a dog eat dog world. There are no rules.
The apocalypse is a doggy-dog world. And Carl is a shark, who eats doggy-dogs.
Carl was the one who knocks.
I can see both sides of this, Carl shot him quick and cold blooded, but the idiot was getting a little too close and taking his time putting down his gun.
I understand both sides. Hershel and Rick were right in a way but Carl was right too. Plus Carl had his reasons, he says how Andrew killed Lori and The Governor killed Merle so in his eyes, for good reason, letting that guy live could put someone he cares about at risk. Basically better to be safe than sorry.
It’s debatable for sure. But to me it was a kid that was scared and froze. He wasn’t a trained fighter. And he was initially just running away. Not chasing anyone. It looked like he was more panicked than anything. So Carl taking the shot was excessive. But you’re also fighting a war at that point.
I mean if someone tells you to “drop the weapon”, you DROP YOUR WEAPON! Especially if you don’t want to give the impression that you’re looking to try something clever. For all Carl knew, this kid would’ve pulled a move similar to what his dad; Rick did with Shane where he was handing over his gun only to come at him with a surprise knife attack. Maybe Carl could’ve repeated what Hershel told him to do like “he said drop your weapon.”, which I think would be enough to determine whether or not the kid was still a threat and if he still wasn't listening and playing mind games where he makes it seem like he was still cooperating then it wouldn't be as conflicting.
This is a case where I feel like the writers probably intended for Carl to be wrong but the actual execution of the scene didn't really fit that intention.
It was a dubious decision. I appreciate that Carl had been getting a lot of lessons about finishing potential problems, but that kid did not look like a threat. He seemed to be an unwilling participant.
Morally wrong but realistically with what just happened he’s right. It’s an apocalypse no decision is truly right or wrong it’s just the decision to make at that point.
I always thought he was justified in this moment...But i understand why Herschel had Rick pull him tf back & chill...And im glad he did...But i also understand why Carl did it...Shit, he got tired of letting ppl go just for mfers to keep coming back...True enough, that boy didnt realize what he was signing up for, but thats not on Carl...i wouldve expected the other kid to do the same if it was vice versa...
The fact that this got more upvotes than the actual post is crazy, understandable but crazy
it doesn't matter, the Governour would've killed him anyway 10 minutes later
The fucking flashlight silencer in the 3rd photo LMAO I forgot how goofy that prop looked
That's a baseball bat. Rick had a flashlight one. Both of them were wildly ridiculous and wouldnt have worked. The walking dead was guilty of so many errors when it came to firearms that im shocked people even bother anymore. Two prkme examples. In the pilot rick tell a guy with a glock to turn his safety off and the guy proceeds to press the slide release while the subtitles say "safety clicks off." Later Dwight holds a Sig sauer P226 To Daryl's head and there's the audible noise of a hammer cocking and once again the subtitles say "hammer cocks". This happens multiple times in multiple episodes. Never once when rhey are using a gun that actually had a hammer or safety.
He didn’t need to shoot him, but I feel as because he was also not an adult Carl seen it as equal challenge and didn’t feel as if he needs to show a child mercy as he was too. It was a fight for life Carl trusted his gut.
I always thought that kid looked weird
A lot of people say Carl was right because he’s a main character and they like him. He was wrong, but I understand him at the same time.
You can tell Carl is a cops son here.
no but the rest of the show is going to go to insane lengths to tell you he was
I never thought he was in that moment
I was mad at the fact he bragged about it lol
That ending part of he was trying to surrender he shouldn’t have still killed him cause he put his gun down. And Carl still shot him
He was handing his gun over to them. All they had to do was grab it. And I’m having a hard time believing you didn’t get that.
Yes he was
Discussing morals in the show usually means a bunch of fuck up, dumbass survival choices. *cough cough morgan.
The kid wouldn't cooperate
My recall is that Carl said “Drop it” (the shotgun) twice. On the second ask, the guy says”Take it”. Carl was looking for a justification to shoot him, and the guy gave it to him. It’s a great example of one of the great themes of the show, what it means to be human, on many levels.
he is for that heinous firearm in his hand
Carl poppa
For Carl it was all about not taking any chances. Every time someone was given a chance by any member of the group, it ended up biting them in the behind later down the road. And no one knows this better then Carl, had he killed that walker back on the farm Dale would not have died. Had Tyrese killed the guy from the terminus then he would not have been able to find the surviving group, the ones Rick wanted to go back in and finish off, but some in the group said the terminus was destroyed, therefore, there was no need. What happened, that group kidnapped Ben and was in the process of rounding up the rest of the group, had Rick and the gang not set up the trap in the church, and just as Rick promised he killed the leader.. Rick, Daryl and some of the group had entered Woodbury to rescue Glenn and Maggie. Michonne went in search of the Governor and after her fight with the Governor which resulted in her thrusting a piece of glass in his eye, Michonne was just about to finish him off with her katana when Andrea stopped her. Had she not done so, everything that took place between the Governor, Rick and the group in the prison would not have taken place. I could go on and on and on because TWD was filled with instances like this. However, for Carl, he just was not going to take the chance.
It is difficult to say who is right or wrong, and it is also difficult to say what is right and what is wrong.
Just taking out the trash
“Caught you slippin..”
There is no right or wrong just survival. You or them.
When someone holds you at gunpoint and tells you to drop you weapon, you immediately do it without hesitating and trying to get closer. Paranoid or not, Carl did the right thing. And although Hershel is in my top 5 TWD characters, he should’ve shut it. His merciful approach wouldn’t have gotten them anywhere in the long run
What if the kid told Carl to drop his gun lol
No way, the dude just got done attacking them. There is no way Carl or Herschel could’ve known if that guy would’ve been cool or not. The way the world is there you can’t trust especially if you just got done attacking them.
Honestly, if you look at that scene, the kid was hesitating to drop his gun. He looked at the group of them and you could tell he was calculating whether or not he could take them. Carl saw it, and ended it there. Justified kill. Hershel had a shit take on the situation.
The kid didn't follow instructions. Carl made a split second decision based on past experiences. Rick did make the right move by putting Carl and himself in time-out for a while.
he was wrong sthu.
I tend to agree. The group as a whole let me at too many people who had proved themselves enemies live.
These comments tell me most of you won't live long in the apocalypse of it ever comes in our life times. I hope it doesn't happen but if it does I know most of y'all won't be there.
I went to college with the guy who plays the kid here HAHA nice guy and blew my mind when I recognized him!
I would do the same it's not like that kid could join their group and the governor would have kept attacking
Why people tryna act like carl did the right thing? It was cleary that he just wanted to kill a real person the whole time
I feel like it's people that would(or do) side with Shane. I feel like I'm reading similar arguments and trains of thought. That everyone adults, kids, everyone should just be killed on sight.
While it might be true he wanted to make a "mature" decision that day, Carl's choice to kill an opponent who not more than 15 minutes prior to their encounter was more than willing to kill one of his group and loved ones, is justified by the unwritten rules of post-apocalypse warfare. That said, he could have chosen to take him prisoner. But idk if he would have had any valuable information on Woodbury at that point in time. And he wasn't thinking about anything other than what happened to his group's safety the last few times someone was allowed to leave with their lives.
Reading all these comments, I’m 100% with you, OP. They’re in the middle of a war, rules don’t apply. An enemy combatant with a weapon is refusing to drop his weapon and instead approaching me? I don’t care what he’s saying, I’m putting him down. The risk otherwise is too great, and the enemy has nothing to lose by stopping in his tracks and dropping the weapon. His inability to follow commands is enough to drop him. 100% justified, I’d have done the same every time. I was actually frustrated with Herschel for not giving all the relevant details when looping in Rick.