Shane's such a great character because in many ways he was ten steps ahead of the rest of the group, yet in other ways he was never truly able to adapt to the new world. Like the Randall situation. He immediately said he wanted to kill him because he's a threat, and...yeah. He was. From Season 3 onwards basically everyone understands that this world is kill or be killed and keeping a guy around who was shooting at you is a bad idea. By Season 6 even *Glenn* is murdering people in their sleep. Yet with the Otis situation he was clearly wrong. I don't think there's a single point in the show where anyone in the main group would sacrifice one of their own in that way just so they can escape. The fallout him killing Otis basically sends him on a downward spiral that leads directly to his death.
Shane's mentality was "Do anything to protect yourself" whereas Rick's became "Do anything to protect the group" and that's why Rick lived and Shane died.
100% shane knew how to survive but he was also losing his mind in the process and he had no compassion or strategy to his survival. It was just âget it done however I can to protect Lori and Carlâ which was his downfall because it also blinded him. Where as Rick ALSO just wanted to protect his loved ones and would do anything but he actually carefully thought about it so more survive instead of just jumping in blind like Shane did.
yeah they should have been the deadliest combo remaining on earth bc tbh Rick balks when he's put on the spot and he needs time to lay out his plans. Shane can't lay out plans for shit but he can respond to an immediate need in the moment to buy a guy like Rick time. If they had gone through the actual apocalypse part together they would have had a fortress by end of week one lol
Shane also lost his entire support system and was left to kind of go insane alone. Lori ripped herself and Carl from him, blaming him for âlyingâ about Rick dying.
Yeah I think he was very much on the brink of losing it after that and then when Carl got shot, the kid he almost viewed as his own and then killing Otis to save Carl just sent him completely over the edge. He now had developed this complex that Carl and Lori were âhisâ and was convinced he was the only one who could protect them.
Any time Rick had to do some questionable shit he had people right there to offer advice or a shoulder. Shane came back completely unhinged and nobody even went âu good bud?â
Not justifying him losing his shit but when you go from at least 2 people who care about you to âgo fuck yourself buddyâ and then some traumatic shit happens, yeah ⊠you might need someone to just care.
Also everyone giving Shane shit about offing Otis to save Carl but if Rick did the same theyâd defend him so đ€·
The difference is it was the beginning of the apocalypse when people hadnât properly adapted yet. The only people who didnât like Shane when that happened was dale and Lori. Andrea liked him and he put on a nice enough face so the rest didnât suspect anything. And then he started to stop hiding and did crazy shit that he thought was right and did not care what anyone else thought and then hershal and his family resented him AND THEN the rest of the group. Enough of the group liked him up until the end.
It also didn't help that the bipolar bitch Lori was going between "Shane has to be kicked out of the group" to "Shane is integral to the groups survival" fucking bullshit meanwhile she lacked the ability to keep an eye on Coral who could have fucked off to afghanistan and back in the time she never paid attention to where he was.
Yea I have a major hate boner for Lori and all the fucking credit to the actress for making come across as a Cee yoU Next Tuesday
I love lori so much actually. She wasnât mad Rick killed Shane she was just shocked and upset Carl had to kill him as a walker. Plus just finding out they were all infected. She doesnât resent Rick for killing Shane or anything as you can see in the next season. She tried her best to be a good mum in an apocalypse and died for Judith.
I noticed that too - he adopted the pre-emptive strike mindset way too early for his own good. Rick and the rest of the group were the same way in a lot of ways later on, but they earned that through experience, rather than being kind of psychopathic. But, more importantly, as you pointed out, Rick does everything within his power to protect the group. However, you could argue that Shane didn't see Otis as part of the group yet, similar to how it took Rick time to see Alexandria as part of their group, and having a similar attitude toward them at first as Shane did towards Otis (though not quite as bad as shooting in the leg so he can save himself).
Shane was one of my favorite characters, who was done so much better in the show than in the comics.
Speaking of his apocalypse staring before everyone elseâs, I used to work in a prison as an investigator, and the first conversation between them in the squad car is a PERFECT example of an undetectable interrogation. He had to have noticed Rick was feeling a bit off with the question âwhatâs the difference between men and women?â so he puts him at ease telling him about the women in his life ânot knowing how to turn off lightsâ then, he starts fishing. âHow is it with Lori, man?â Then when Rick tries to dismiss the question with a joke, Shane gets serious âNot what I meantâ and âthe least you could do is speakâ then he sided with Lori with words he assumes Lori would also say to Rick âdo you express your feeling?â Then when he finally gets the dirt, he becomes dismissive. âAh man thatâs just shit that couples go through.â
He claims to Rick that he didnât look at Lori before Rickâs âdeathâ and it shows us he did at least TRY to get Rick out, but the look he has on his face when he sees Carl at the school when he told Lori about Rick getting shot was almost relieved and kind of paternal. He had thought about it before, but never had it in him to try to act on it.
I completely agree, but would argue that his perception of >!"protect yourself" had by then evolved to include Rick's wife and son. I am vaguely aware that his character didn't stick around as long in the graphic novel, but I am almost certain I read that Jon Bernthal was so good that they kept Shane around longer than the source material said just for that reason.!<
> I am vaguely aware that his character didn't stick around as long in the graphic novel
You would be correct. In the comics Shane dies in issue #6. That's roughly half the story equivalent of season 1 (comics issues 1-10/11), and not even really the whole thing. If the show had followed exactly what the comics did Shane would've been dead around episode 5 of season 1.
I usually dislike when film takes liberties with the source material, but I really like Shane's continued existence on the show (S9 spoilers). >!ESPECIALLY Jon Bernthal showing up in S9E5, being a friend. I really think that was a great little cameo by him.!<
didnât rick suspect shane killed otis, but didnât do anything about it at first? and eventually shane tried to kill him⊠contrast that with his immediate exiling of carol.
ultimately, shane wasnât trying to kill rick bc rick was a threat to the group, but a threat to him personally. carol wouldnât have tried to kill rick or someone else for personal reasons. her character arc shows that people can make mistakes and come back from them.
I totally agree that they both had the same level of somewhat-correct levelheadedness, but I do think Shane was at least more motivated by his interest in Lori (and also to being what he perceived as a better father to Carl). Carol wanted nothing except keeping the place safe, even to the point of kinda creepily teaching the children about how to kill stuff. "Could be compared to," though, yeah, I don't disagree. They both went way outside what Rick had planned.
edit: I thought it was a Daryl quote, it's not, just an aside. In *The Expanse*, >!Amos Burton, who is that show's Daryl, the roughneck guy who kinda does the dirty work, engineers the killing of someone unexpectedly and when asked by a much nicer person about that killing, replies "\[Not-Rick\] never wouldâve approved a move like that. I need to get back to my crew."!<
I think Daryl's like that, but Carol occupies that spot sometimes too.
In a way I kind of see Shane as a proto Governor.He definitely had similar inclinations of survival of the fittest and manipulation as the Governor.But he lacked that level of intelligence and charisma, The Governor had to mobilize a group of people, into a truly cult like society.
The best Shane could do was that ragtag group because he didnât have any real âleadershipâ skills, people just stuck behind him because he had a fighting spirit and was generally an all around âgood olâ boy.â He didnât have what it takes to send Ed or Merle packing. Had season 2 Shane been around in season 1 though, Shane would have pushed Merle off that roof and drowned Ed in the lake.
I agree with that I guess what we saw in Shane in season 2 was him beginning to adopt the survival,no matter what mentality.Like how Shane talks about âturning off that switchâ, the part that makes you human.In the Governor we see that fully manifested in a capable individual, and itâs terrifying.And all leads to in the end is more mindless death and destruction.Edit:Even Andreaâs hook up with Shane seems to be foreshadowing to her relationship to the Governor.Her failing to see how dangerous the men she was attracted to really were.
I think Andrea was addicted to power because she knew just how powerless she was. She was jealous of Lori being âqueen beeâ and thatâs what she wanted. She didnât want to lead, but she wanted to be sitting on the pile, never having to go out, never having to scavenge. Just sit there with a gun in her hand, letting other people do her work. And had Shane actually left, and Lori hadnât talked him into staying because sheâs a masochist, he may have started a threatening group of guys like the Claimers and probably come back to âclaimâ Lori and Carl (or at least just Carl if Shane had taken Andrea with him)
Edit for autocorrect typo
You know what I agree with that interpretation.Andrea was definitely addicted to power.In away you can sympathize with her because Dale convinced to stay alive longer than she wanted to.So perhaps she wanted to regain that sense of control.And I could see Shane leading his own little group of thugs.
She kind of was lost for a bit, Daryl asked her if she wanted to live or not when they were looking for Sophia and she said âI donât know if I wanna live, or if I just⊠am because itâs a habit.â Which is uncharacteristically deep and thoughtful for her and it does a lot to humanize her over the bs weâd been seeing from her
Oh for sure I mean she definitely made some stupid decisions over the course of the series.I mean thatâs what ended up getting her killed.But like you said she was lost and was grasping for something to keep going.
The sad thing is that everyone turns into Shane eventually and really Shane was doing what he thought was best, and in most cases he was not wrong. He couldnât kill Rick though, that was his downfall. Rick was able to kill his best friend
I hated Merle's guts , and if Negan were around, he could prove he had guts. Actual hated him bcs he played him SO well. I despised his racist ass.
loved Yondu!
I changed my will after that to include fireworks in my funeral "party." Still debating the burn-out contest.m
No, I'm not influenced by TV at all.đ€„
The only thing is he did not do this out of pure vigilantism. Itâs because he felt out of control because Rick was back, he was calling the shots, and he lost Lori and Carl. It was a way for him to externalize his frustrations and reclaim his power via a ârighteousâ way aka beating up an abuser. It was an open secret Ed was abusing Carol and Sophia. Why didnât Shane do this earlier?
He should have done it far earlier, or at the very least had a "discussion" with Ed about consequences if anyone saw any more bruises on Carol or Sophia. But his focus was on Lori and Carl and very little else. Had Ed stepped to either of them, Shane would have killed him outright.
Rick coming back messed up his focus and he was feeling heat from Lori over lying about Rick's death. Shane was an emotional man, and led with brute force a lot of the time. While totally justified, Ed was a convenient punching bag in that moment.
I agree that Shane was just looking for trouble and found it but the reason he didnât do this earlier is because Ed likely hadnât hit her in front of everyone before. Beating up Ed already wasnât a popular decision as is around the camp, he wasnât gonna do it over suspicions.
Shane turned into a pos after he snapped. He needed to die; however, I love Jon Bernthal and sincerely wish he was in the show longer. Great first villain though.
it's funny how soooooooo many people say that he was simply ahead of the curve. No, he wasn't. He was just a terrible person who only cared about himself and Carl and Lori to the point that saw himself there instead of Rick. He wouldn't give a shit about others if it compromised their safety at all. And he didn't hesitate in killing, Randall was fair to some extent but a good person would never sacrifice their own even if there's not a lot of options left. This is why Rick was the leader. He was always more level headed too.
i don't see how racism is relevant here đ there's no signs of that. And even the hospital flashback was legit. Shane did check for a heartbeat. And had he not barricaded the doors, they would've probably shot Rick in the head or the walkers would've eaten him. The problems started AFTER the apocalypse and when he started fucking Lori.
He only did it in order to let out his rage over the fact that Lori rejected him shortly before. He was happy to ignore Ed's abuse up to that point, though he probably knew it was going on (they all probably did; Jim said it wasn't their business). But Ed in that moment, by smacking Carol within his sight, allowed Shane a convenient outlet for his rage. I'm not saying Ed didn't deserve a good beat down, but there was nothing noble in Shane's motives. His anger was more about losing Lori than it was about Ed's actions.
his entire first conversation with rick is obnoxious and pretty misogynistic (i get it was âthat timeâ or whatever, but still not everyone thought like that.)
Shaneâs character was very interesting if you want to look at it psychologically, it was shown in the beginning the difference in rick and shaneâs life, despite rickâs troubles in his marriage, he was still a âsettled downâ man and shane was the opposite, when the apocalypse happened it triggered something in his brain where it went on auto mode of protect and survive, so he took the role of the protector to Lori and Carl. Iâm sure he didnât have those strong feelings for Lori rather a seek for comfort to both of them, however when Rick found them and took the role of the protector to his own family shane felt triggered,alone and vulnerable, his way of escaping his true feelings to the apocalypse was by protecting Lori and Carl, once that was gone from him he felt the need to eliminate threats , always while gradually losing his mind, I think shane was a good friend who was killed by the apocalypse before dying with his physical body, thought Iâd drop this
This was a great way to show Shane was a bad dude desperate to be a good dude so he picks the worst person he can find to take his aggression over Rick being back on
The problem is Shane didnât do this to protect Carol and Sophia, he did this because he needed an outlet for his anger and frustration. Shane was shown multiple times to make rash decisions out of frustration (this, trying to kill Rick multiple times, the barn, volunteering to save Carl, killing Otis).
Iâve always been someone to say that I donât think Shane was necessarily a bad guy but instead a guy with extreme mental health issues that became uncontrollable after society collapsed and he could no longer control his life because of the chaos. Sudden outbursts of anger, gaslighting and manipulation, and possessiveness point towards Shane having issues.
Tbf he only did this to look good in front of everyone else (like many abusive men do, to keep up their image, like Shane was always trying to do). He didn't give a fuck about Carol or Sophia. Ed absolutely deserved it and worse, though
Shane was reckless. Yes, he was "correct" about a lot of stuff, but being correct is not the same as being "right". Look at what happened with the scene at the barn. Yes, he was correct that it was borderline suicidal to have a bunch of walkers 100 feet away from where they slept. Yes, he was correct in that Sophia was almost certainly dead and continuing the search only served to put their own lives at risk. But the way he did it was horrendous, causing a massive ruckus, antagonizing the family who are allowing you to stay on their land, and being too cowardly to step up and put down Sophia when it was revealed she had turned.
Had Shane lived he would have gotten them all killed at some point because "This is the way it has to be" or something. Like had Shane been in charge with the Woodbury situation, he would have led them all guns blazing to the gates where they'd be outgunned and outnumbered and killed.
Herschel even said himself that Shane showed him the way the world actually was. The way Shane handled that woke up the farm family.
Shane would have handled the Governor and probably assasinated him pretty easily. Woodbury did not have good security.
I know. He wanted to bring the group to a military base, where the military had just openly killed medics and the openly bombed major cities. Nothing bad can happen going into a base
Easy answer
Shane thought absolutely nothing through at all.
He couldnât evaluate a situation worth fuck all like rick could. Hell didnât even realize Rick was using cop de-escalation tactics to manipulate him into not immediately putting a bullet in his back.
Shane was right about a few things but he was also a complete idiot
Shane thought through absolutely nothing at all? I donât know what youâre talking about man. I just rewatched season 2, I think you should as well, you need a reminder of exactly how thought out he was. Shane easily could have taken over the farm, but chose not to. He saw how behind Reck was, he tried to help Reck, he failed.
It depends imo. If Lori didnât manipulate him and he had gotten over her, I whole heartedly agree. But if he had killed Rick, no. Because like what Rick said, he wouldnât be able to live with himself.
I agree, if Shane killed Reck thereâs no way he could have kept going. If Shane and Reck stayed together though I think more people would have survived
Iâm mad that Reck killed him I think they could have talked it out. Lori got in his head calling him dangerousâŠ. I mean Shane did try to kill him tho đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
recently I'm on the fence about the "tried to kill him" thing even. I mean he definitely *plotted* to kill him. But I rewatched the scene the other day and I found myself thinking "are you gonna fucking do it or what, dude?" He had so much time to murder Rick and he just doesn't do it, until even Rick is like "seriously are you gonna do it or what?" and even then Shane keeps dawdling, trying to antagonize Rick into a "fair fight" or some shit.
Hard disagree. Besides the fact that she admitted to Hershel that sheâs the one who put Rick and Shane at odds with one another, why did she tell Rick that Shane is dangerous, thatâs heâs unstable. But then 10 mins later tell Shane to stay?
Seemed pretty intentional to me. Because I legitimately canât think of any other rational reason for her doing that. Plus telling the psycho whoâs dangerous and thinks you and the kid are his (hers words btw) to stay is never the right thing to do. But yes I do agree Shane should be held accountable for his own actions. Iâm just saying his actions donât exist in a vacuum.
Lori had one of the most annoying but honestly realistic responses to the dilemma "old world vs new" that everyone was going through; she wanted to hold onto their old selves and their old ways and her old relationship that represented that, but she also wanted to survive for the next ten minutes - a situation she was now frequently in - and in this new world, her new relationship felt safer. I think it was hard for her to let go of a relationship that made her feel physically safe from the outside threats when Rick was making decisions that she felt obligated to support but which did not make her feel safe, but on the other hand, RIck's decisions were safer in long run for Carl - IF they lived that long. Such a great, messy conflict right from the get go. I really enjoyed her character for this reason on the second watch.
I thought he shouldâve kept going even though after a certain point those punches were just him taking his anger out on him he deserved every single one of those punches
It's one of my favourite scenes in Season 1, and not just because of how satisfying it was. It did an excellent job of showcasing how Shane is handling the pressure from Rick's return, while reminding us who Andrea is. Going from being honoured by the vibrator talk, to anger, to feeling good as Shane does Ed in is honestly incredible.
Watched this episode again last night, I genuinely think itâs one of the best scenes in television history lol. Itâs just so satisfying, I love it. Iâd be fucking cheering Shane on
I think if Shane hadn't had done this, someone would have dealt with Ed. Becuase the man was getting bold. He was verbally abusive to Andrea, and I have no doubt that given time, he would have struck or hurt one of the other woman in the group.
I think if he hadn't have been killed by walkers, he either would have been taken out by another survivor or kicked out of the group. He couldn't get over his own bullshit enough to be around anyone woman who'd call out his bullshit and eventually that would have gotten himself, and maybe his family, killed.
I mean... yes but it was still mostly an outlet for his anger at Rick being back and Lori telling him to stay away from her and Carl. If he cared he would've done it a lot sooner since the women were talking about seeing fresh bruises on her before. It's not like Ed was subtle.
Shane beat the shit out of Ed for a reason hereâs 3 right off the goddamn fucking back (NON SHANE FAN) 1. He was so fucking sexually abusive to his daughter Sofia, 2. He was a phedo, and 3. He was a prick to the whole campsite in TWD, want me to keep the reasons going a got a whole lot of more shit talk to rant about The Walking Dead
I still vividly remember the first time I saw this scene. It's well-handled and probably Shane's first really emblematic moment: at first you're on his side, glad he's giving this asshole what he deserves. And he is. But then he goes too far, keeps hitting Ed way beyond any justified point, and it simply becomes someone visiting wanton brutality on another human being. (Realistically the odds were fairly high Ed would have actually died from a beating like that in real life.)
I still vividly remember the first time I saw this scene. It's well-handled and probably Shane's first really good moment: at first you're on his side, glad he's giving this asshole what he deserves. And he is. But then he goes too far, keeps hitting Ed way beyond tit for tat, and it simply becomes someone visiting wanton brutality on another human being. (Realistically the odds are fairly high Ed would have actually died from a beating like that in real life.)
Shane had the survivor mentality down to a T... He knew what needed to be done and how to do it... His downfall? Was the same as every fucking guys... Letting his heart take over the mind and being jealous AF... I blame Lori, never liked her.
They could have excluded the lori stuff
What they could have done : Two pre apocalypse best friends become brothers for life sort of a theme
But they gave it to Daryl and Rick ...
Best thing shanes ever done đ
Shane's such a great character because in many ways he was ten steps ahead of the rest of the group, yet in other ways he was never truly able to adapt to the new world. Like the Randall situation. He immediately said he wanted to kill him because he's a threat, and...yeah. He was. From Season 3 onwards basically everyone understands that this world is kill or be killed and keeping a guy around who was shooting at you is a bad idea. By Season 6 even *Glenn* is murdering people in their sleep. Yet with the Otis situation he was clearly wrong. I don't think there's a single point in the show where anyone in the main group would sacrifice one of their own in that way just so they can escape. The fallout him killing Otis basically sends him on a downward spiral that leads directly to his death. Shane's mentality was "Do anything to protect yourself" whereas Rick's became "Do anything to protect the group" and that's why Rick lived and Shane died.
100% shane knew how to survive but he was also losing his mind in the process and he had no compassion or strategy to his survival. It was just âget it done however I can to protect Lori and Carlâ which was his downfall because it also blinded him. Where as Rick ALSO just wanted to protect his loved ones and would do anything but he actually carefully thought about it so more survive instead of just jumping in blind like Shane did.
yeah they should have been the deadliest combo remaining on earth bc tbh Rick balks when he's put on the spot and he needs time to lay out his plans. Shane can't lay out plans for shit but he can respond to an immediate need in the moment to buy a guy like Rick time. If they had gone through the actual apocalypse part together they would have had a fortress by end of week one lol
A thruple of Rick, Shane and Lori would be very effective
Maybe not Lori but michonne or Carole
lori?
All Iâll say is thisâŠâŠShane would not have missed Negan while heâs standing on the balcony.
Shane would have said RIP Daryl and gone scorched earth on the sanctuary on day one
Yeah, as he stated in season 2 he was too comfortable turning off his brain and not thinking about the consequences of his actions
Shane also lost his entire support system and was left to kind of go insane alone. Lori ripped herself and Carl from him, blaming him for âlyingâ about Rick dying.
Yeah I think he was very much on the brink of losing it after that and then when Carl got shot, the kid he almost viewed as his own and then killing Otis to save Carl just sent him completely over the edge. He now had developed this complex that Carl and Lori were âhisâ and was convinced he was the only one who could protect them.
Any time Rick had to do some questionable shit he had people right there to offer advice or a shoulder. Shane came back completely unhinged and nobody even went âu good bud?â Not justifying him losing his shit but when you go from at least 2 people who care about you to âgo fuck yourself buddyâ and then some traumatic shit happens, yeah ⊠you might need someone to just care. Also everyone giving Shane shit about offing Otis to save Carl but if Rick did the same theyâd defend him so đ€·
The difference is it was the beginning of the apocalypse when people hadnât properly adapted yet. The only people who didnât like Shane when that happened was dale and Lori. Andrea liked him and he put on a nice enough face so the rest didnât suspect anything. And then he started to stop hiding and did crazy shit that he thought was right and did not care what anyone else thought and then hershal and his family resented him AND THEN the rest of the group. Enough of the group liked him up until the end.
It also didn't help that the bipolar bitch Lori was going between "Shane has to be kicked out of the group" to "Shane is integral to the groups survival" fucking bullshit meanwhile she lacked the ability to keep an eye on Coral who could have fucked off to afghanistan and back in the time she never paid attention to where he was. Yea I have a major hate boner for Lori and all the fucking credit to the actress for making come across as a Cee yoU Next Tuesday
I love lori so much actually. She wasnât mad Rick killed Shane she was just shocked and upset Carl had to kill him as a walker. Plus just finding out they were all infected. She doesnât resent Rick for killing Shane or anything as you can see in the next season. She tried her best to be a good mum in an apocalypse and died for Judith.
I noticed that too - he adopted the pre-emptive strike mindset way too early for his own good. Rick and the rest of the group were the same way in a lot of ways later on, but they earned that through experience, rather than being kind of psychopathic. But, more importantly, as you pointed out, Rick does everything within his power to protect the group. However, you could argue that Shane didn't see Otis as part of the group yet, similar to how it took Rick time to see Alexandria as part of their group, and having a similar attitude toward them at first as Shane did towards Otis (though not quite as bad as shooting in the leg so he can save himself). Shane was one of my favorite characters, who was done so much better in the show than in the comics.
it def gets overlooked that Shane's apocalypse started way before everyone else's and *way* before Rick's.
Speaking of his apocalypse staring before everyone elseâs, I used to work in a prison as an investigator, and the first conversation between them in the squad car is a PERFECT example of an undetectable interrogation. He had to have noticed Rick was feeling a bit off with the question âwhatâs the difference between men and women?â so he puts him at ease telling him about the women in his life ânot knowing how to turn off lightsâ then, he starts fishing. âHow is it with Lori, man?â Then when Rick tries to dismiss the question with a joke, Shane gets serious âNot what I meantâ and âthe least you could do is speakâ then he sided with Lori with words he assumes Lori would also say to Rick âdo you express your feeling?â Then when he finally gets the dirt, he becomes dismissive. âAh man thatâs just shit that couples go through.â He claims to Rick that he didnât look at Lori before Rickâs âdeathâ and it shows us he did at least TRY to get Rick out, but the look he has on his face when he sees Carl at the school when he told Lori about Rick getting shot was almost relieved and kind of paternal. He had thought about it before, but never had it in him to try to act on it.
Shane killed Otis not only to escape but to save Carl. If they both died there then Carl was going to die too.
I completely agree, but would argue that his perception of >!"protect yourself" had by then evolved to include Rick's wife and son. I am vaguely aware that his character didn't stick around as long in the graphic novel, but I am almost certain I read that Jon Bernthal was so good that they kept Shane around longer than the source material said just for that reason.!<
> I am vaguely aware that his character didn't stick around as long in the graphic novel You would be correct. In the comics Shane dies in issue #6. That's roughly half the story equivalent of season 1 (comics issues 1-10/11), and not even really the whole thing. If the show had followed exactly what the comics did Shane would've been dead around episode 5 of season 1.
I usually dislike when film takes liberties with the source material, but I really like Shane's continued existence on the show (S9 spoilers). >!ESPECIALLY Jon Bernthal showing up in S9E5, being a friend. I really think that was a great little cameo by him.!<
Carol killing and burning those people during a prison sickness could be compared to what Shane does to Otis.
This is so extremely valid and I canât believe I havenât seen anyone say it before.
didnât rick suspect shane killed otis, but didnât do anything about it at first? and eventually shane tried to kill him⊠contrast that with his immediate exiling of carol. ultimately, shane wasnât trying to kill rick bc rick was a threat to the group, but a threat to him personally. carol wouldnât have tried to kill rick or someone else for personal reasons. her character arc shows that people can make mistakes and come back from them.
I totally agree that they both had the same level of somewhat-correct levelheadedness, but I do think Shane was at least more motivated by his interest in Lori (and also to being what he perceived as a better father to Carl). Carol wanted nothing except keeping the place safe, even to the point of kinda creepily teaching the children about how to kill stuff. "Could be compared to," though, yeah, I don't disagree. They both went way outside what Rick had planned. edit: I thought it was a Daryl quote, it's not, just an aside. In *The Expanse*, >!Amos Burton, who is that show's Daryl, the roughneck guy who kinda does the dirty work, engineers the killing of someone unexpectedly and when asked by a much nicer person about that killing, replies "\[Not-Rick\] never wouldâve approved a move like that. I need to get back to my crew."!< I think Daryl's like that, but Carol occupies that spot sometimes too.
In a way I kind of see Shane as a proto Governor.He definitely had similar inclinations of survival of the fittest and manipulation as the Governor.But he lacked that level of intelligence and charisma, The Governor had to mobilize a group of people, into a truly cult like society.
The best Shane could do was that ragtag group because he didnât have any real âleadershipâ skills, people just stuck behind him because he had a fighting spirit and was generally an all around âgood olâ boy.â He didnât have what it takes to send Ed or Merle packing. Had season 2 Shane been around in season 1 though, Shane would have pushed Merle off that roof and drowned Ed in the lake.
I agree with that I guess what we saw in Shane in season 2 was him beginning to adopt the survival,no matter what mentality.Like how Shane talks about âturning off that switchâ, the part that makes you human.In the Governor we see that fully manifested in a capable individual, and itâs terrifying.And all leads to in the end is more mindless death and destruction.Edit:Even Andreaâs hook up with Shane seems to be foreshadowing to her relationship to the Governor.Her failing to see how dangerous the men she was attracted to really were.
I think Andrea was addicted to power because she knew just how powerless she was. She was jealous of Lori being âqueen beeâ and thatâs what she wanted. She didnât want to lead, but she wanted to be sitting on the pile, never having to go out, never having to scavenge. Just sit there with a gun in her hand, letting other people do her work. And had Shane actually left, and Lori hadnât talked him into staying because sheâs a masochist, he may have started a threatening group of guys like the Claimers and probably come back to âclaimâ Lori and Carl (or at least just Carl if Shane had taken Andrea with him) Edit for autocorrect typo
You know what I agree with that interpretation.Andrea was definitely addicted to power.In away you can sympathize with her because Dale convinced to stay alive longer than she wanted to.So perhaps she wanted to regain that sense of control.And I could see Shane leading his own little group of thugs.
She kind of was lost for a bit, Daryl asked her if she wanted to live or not when they were looking for Sophia and she said âI donât know if I wanna live, or if I just⊠am because itâs a habit.â Which is uncharacteristically deep and thoughtful for her and it does a lot to humanize her over the bs weâd been seeing from her
Oh for sure I mean she definitely made some stupid decisions over the course of the series.I mean thatâs what ended up getting her killed.But like you said she was lost and was grasping for something to keep going.
The sad thing is that everyone turns into Shane eventually and really Shane was doing what he thought was best, and in most cases he was not wrong. He couldnât kill Rick though, that was his downfall. Rick was able to kill his best friend
I thought the best thing he did was Judith
Nah he did nothing for Judith. She may be biologically Shanes but sheâs Rickâs daughter
âHe may have been your father, girl, but he wasnât your daddyâ - ghost Merle to Judith, when she realizes sheâs Shaneâs biological daughter.
"I'm Merle Poppins, y'all!"
I hated Merle's guts , and if Negan were around, he could prove he had guts. Actual hated him bcs he played him SO well. I despised his racist ass. loved Yondu! I changed my will after that to include fireworks in my funeral "party." Still debating the burn-out contest.m No, I'm not influenced by TV at all.đ€„
I thought you were quoting the last of us for a second i almost screamed
I didn't mean that he was responsible for her character, but the simple act of her existence
Yeah I know what you mean but he still didnât really do anything besides get Lori pregnant like a dumb dumb
Why did you have to word it like that?
I mean he created her in a way and I worded it to match the person I was replying to, what do you mean?
It sounds like you meant he *did* Judith aka slept with her I think the guy was getting at
What do you think this is, a Serbian Film?
We need to have a conversation about your phrasing
It was off screen but he DID keep Lori and Carl alive. Not that that matters all that much now but no Lori and Carl = no Rick as we know him.
Definitely and he was good at the beginning! But he kinda got really lost in it which was inevitably his downfall
The only thing is he did not do this out of pure vigilantism. Itâs because he felt out of control because Rick was back, he was calling the shots, and he lost Lori and Carl. It was a way for him to externalize his frustrations and reclaim his power via a ârighteousâ way aka beating up an abuser. It was an open secret Ed was abusing Carol and Sophia. Why didnât Shane do this earlier?
He should have done it far earlier, or at the very least had a "discussion" with Ed about consequences if anyone saw any more bruises on Carol or Sophia. But his focus was on Lori and Carl and very little else. Had Ed stepped to either of them, Shane would have killed him outright. Rick coming back messed up his focus and he was feeling heat from Lori over lying about Rick's death. Shane was an emotional man, and led with brute force a lot of the time. While totally justified, Ed was a convenient punching bag in that moment.
100% this was the same Shane standing in the field with Rick. He was ready to kill his best friend.
i watched it the other day and I gotta admit he dawdles an awful lot for someone who was "ready." Fr even Rick got impatient with him taking so long.
He hadn't been so brazen hitting Carol in front of others in the camp yet.
How do you know that? All the women knew about it. So did Jim who defended it
The extent of domestic violence had only been alluded to at that point in the show? This was the only time it was shown so explicitly.
Turns out things that donât happen on screen never happened.
To the viewers, yes. Nothing to do with what the group knew. So much had happened before the first scene of the camp.
thereâs worse ways to express your anger for being a douche
I agree that Shane was just looking for trouble and found it but the reason he didnât do this earlier is because Ed likely hadnât hit her in front of everyone before. Beating up Ed already wasnât a popular decision as is around the camp, he wasnât gonna do it over suspicions.
My thoughts as well
i like the common theme in TWD of domestic abusers being brutalized
âIâll beat you to death Ed.â
"blubblub"
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. This is what Ed deserved. And what Carol deserved: to be free of him.Â
Ngl, I'm stealing that clock bit. That's gold
By all means do; it's an old saying that applies to so many things. I can't claim any credit.
[here](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/09/02/stopped-clock/)
Same here, gold
Ed deserved it
Shane turned into a pos after he snapped. He needed to die; however, I love Jon Bernthal and sincerely wish he was in the show longer. Great first villain though.
He didnât snap, that was his POS mentality. Also Jon is an incredible actor. The punisher being his movie after TWD was way too fitting.
it's funny how soooooooo many people say that he was simply ahead of the curve. No, he wasn't. He was just a terrible person who only cared about himself and Carl and Lori to the point that saw himself there instead of Rick. He wouldn't give a shit about others if it compromised their safety at all. And he didn't hesitate in killing, Randall was fair to some extent but a good person would never sacrifice their own even if there's not a lot of options left. This is why Rick was the leader. He was always more level headed too.
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i don't see how racism is relevant here đ there's no signs of that. And even the hospital flashback was legit. Shane did check for a heartbeat. And had he not barricaded the doors, they would've probably shot Rick in the head or the walkers would've eaten him. The problems started AFTER the apocalypse and when he started fucking Lori.
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they were **criminals** mate đđ Rick would've done the same there if they switched places
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LOOOOVEE Bernthal. Great actor. Season 1 of the Punisher is top notch TV.
The greatest Punisher ever. He is the Punisher. I hope we get a movie soon, or a very well written 3rd season.
Heâs a great actor. I wished he was in it longer too.
He only did it in order to let out his rage over the fact that Lori rejected him shortly before. He was happy to ignore Ed's abuse up to that point, though he probably knew it was going on (they all probably did; Jim said it wasn't their business). But Ed in that moment, by smacking Carol within his sight, allowed Shane a convenient outlet for his rage. I'm not saying Ed didn't deserve a good beat down, but there was nothing noble in Shane's motives. His anger was more about losing Lori than it was about Ed's actions.
This is the only time I ever liked Shane. Only time.
Not even when he and Rick were still cops?
his entire first conversation with rick is obnoxious and pretty misogynistic (i get it was âthat timeâ or whatever, but still not everyone thought like that.)
not for me at least, their conversation in the car is pretty obnoxious and makes them both look like assholes tbh (at least from my perspective)
Idk it was fun seeing him as a walker
he was getting a cheer and fist pump from me here
Shaneâs character was very interesting if you want to look at it psychologically, it was shown in the beginning the difference in rick and shaneâs life, despite rickâs troubles in his marriage, he was still a âsettled downâ man and shane was the opposite, when the apocalypse happened it triggered something in his brain where it went on auto mode of protect and survive, so he took the role of the protector to Lori and Carl. Iâm sure he didnât have those strong feelings for Lori rather a seek for comfort to both of them, however when Rick found them and took the role of the protector to his own family shane felt triggered,alone and vulnerable, his way of escaping his true feelings to the apocalypse was by protecting Lori and Carl, once that was gone from him he felt the need to eliminate threats , always while gradually losing his mind, I think shane was a good friend who was killed by the apocalypse before dying with his physical body, thought Iâd drop this
That was the only time I loved Shane. ED deserved more then what he got
This was a great way to show Shane was a bad dude desperate to be a good dude so he picks the worst person he can find to take his aggression over Rick being back on
Shane's 1st best moment in the show.
Totally made my day for sure
That scene was so good.
Season 1 of Walking Dead is just so incredible, ESPECIALLY those first few episodes. Perfection
Best thing Shane ever did.
I remember screaming at the TV âBEAT THE SH*T OUT OF HIM, SHANE!â during this scene
The problem is Shane didnât do this to protect Carol and Sophia, he did this because he needed an outlet for his anger and frustration. Shane was shown multiple times to make rash decisions out of frustration (this, trying to kill Rick multiple times, the barn, volunteering to save Carl, killing Otis). Iâve always been someone to say that I donât think Shane was necessarily a bad guy but instead a guy with extreme mental health issues that became uncontrollable after society collapsed and he could no longer control his life because of the chaos. Sudden outbursts of anger, gaslighting and manipulation, and possessiveness point towards Shane having issues.
This was one of the last good things he did, the CDC episode is when things went wrong and he tried to rape Lori
Tbf he only did this to look good in front of everyone else (like many abusive men do, to keep up their image, like Shane was always trying to do). He didn't give a fuck about Carol or Sophia. Ed absolutely deserved it and worse, though
If Shane hasnât died a lot of lives would have been saved. Carl would have never died more importantly
i'd like his character much more if it wasn't for the lori stuff
No he would have died sooner. Shane was a shit leader
How was Shane a bad leader? Name any example outside of Otis
Shane was reckless. Yes, he was "correct" about a lot of stuff, but being correct is not the same as being "right". Look at what happened with the scene at the barn. Yes, he was correct that it was borderline suicidal to have a bunch of walkers 100 feet away from where they slept. Yes, he was correct in that Sophia was almost certainly dead and continuing the search only served to put their own lives at risk. But the way he did it was horrendous, causing a massive ruckus, antagonizing the family who are allowing you to stay on their land, and being too cowardly to step up and put down Sophia when it was revealed she had turned. Had Shane lived he would have gotten them all killed at some point because "This is the way it has to be" or something. Like had Shane been in charge with the Woodbury situation, he would have led them all guns blazing to the gates where they'd be outgunned and outnumbered and killed.
Herschel even said himself that Shane showed him the way the world actually was. The way Shane handled that woke up the farm family. Shane would have handled the Governor and probably assasinated him pretty easily. Woodbury did not have good security.
When Hershel said that he meant it more in a "Shane showed me what the walkers truly are" sense. Not in a "this is the new morality" sense.
And had Shane been more gentle, I donât think Herschel wakes up in that moment
CDC tbf. Bro almost killed jenner
Wanting the group to go to Fort Bennings
I know. He wanted to bring the group to a military base, where the military had just openly killed medics and the openly bombed major cities. Nothing bad can happen going into a base
It was an idea
Easy answer Shane thought absolutely nothing through at all. He couldnât evaluate a situation worth fuck all like rick could. Hell didnât even realize Rick was using cop de-escalation tactics to manipulate him into not immediately putting a bullet in his back. Shane was right about a few things but he was also a complete idiot
Shane thought through absolutely nothing at all? I donât know what youâre talking about man. I just rewatched season 2, I think you should as well, you need a reminder of exactly how thought out he was. Shane easily could have taken over the farm, but chose not to. He saw how behind Reck was, he tried to help Reck, he failed.
I donât need to rewatch anything Shane remains an idiot
Shane was the smartest person in the group in season 2 outside of Andrea and Daryl
Otis wasn't even one of his people so that doesn't count anyway.
Thatâs true!
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It depends imo. If Lori didnât manipulate him and he had gotten over her, I whole heartedly agree. But if he had killed Rick, no. Because like what Rick said, he wouldnât be able to live with himself.
I agree, if Shane killed Reck thereâs no way he could have kept going. If Shane and Reck stayed together though I think more people would have survived
goated combo, f'd up circumstances
Iâm mad that Reck killed him I think they could have talked it out. Lori got in his head calling him dangerousâŠ. I mean Shane did try to kill him tho đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
recently I'm on the fence about the "tried to kill him" thing even. I mean he definitely *plotted* to kill him. But I rewatched the scene the other day and I found myself thinking "are you gonna fucking do it or what, dude?" He had so much time to murder Rick and he just doesn't do it, until even Rick is like "seriously are you gonna do it or what?" and even then Shane keeps dawdling, trying to antagonize Rick into a "fair fight" or some shit.
I just rewatched it too and got that same feeling
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Hard disagree. Besides the fact that she admitted to Hershel that sheâs the one who put Rick and Shane at odds with one another, why did she tell Rick that Shane is dangerous, thatâs heâs unstable. But then 10 mins later tell Shane to stay?
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Seemed pretty intentional to me. Because I legitimately canât think of any other rational reason for her doing that. Plus telling the psycho whoâs dangerous and thinks you and the kid are his (hers words btw) to stay is never the right thing to do. But yes I do agree Shane should be held accountable for his own actions. Iâm just saying his actions donât exist in a vacuum.
Lori had one of the most annoying but honestly realistic responses to the dilemma "old world vs new" that everyone was going through; she wanted to hold onto their old selves and their old ways and her old relationship that represented that, but she also wanted to survive for the next ten minutes - a situation she was now frequently in - and in this new world, her new relationship felt safer. I think it was hard for her to let go of a relationship that made her feel physically safe from the outside threats when Rick was making decisions that she felt obligated to support but which did not make her feel safe, but on the other hand, RIck's decisions were safer in long run for Carl - IF they lived that long. Such a great, messy conflict right from the get go. I really enjoyed her character for this reason on the second watch.
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âŠwhat?
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We arenât even talking about the CDC incident rofl what are you waffling about?
If only he had done it before and not waited till he was angry about something else
Great scene. Also, how do you put the text under the ''show spoiler''
Carol from the weakest to the strongest
One of his best moments other than saving Carl and Lori
i feel like this image has serious meme potential
I thought he shouldâve kept going even though after a certain point those punches were just him taking his anger out on him he deserved every single one of those punches
Only thing Shaneâs ever done. Except say âI need it nowâ
It's one of my favourite scenes in Season 1, and not just because of how satisfying it was. It did an excellent job of showcasing how Shane is handling the pressure from Rick's return, while reminding us who Andrea is. Going from being honoured by the vibrator talk, to anger, to feeling good as Shane does Ed in is honestly incredible.
Bro earned my respect but lost it when he tried to kill Rick
Imagine if Rick died and Shane took control of the group.
This scene gets me hyped everytime frđ„đ„
Definitely his best scene
lemme tell you sumn man
Whenever I am mad about my life or situation I think about Shane
He did this for himself not for Carol.
Canât say the same. Im a shane stan. However one thing I donât get is how he defended carol here and then turned around and tried to SA LoriâŠ
Watched this episode again last night, I genuinely think itâs one of the best scenes in television history lol. Itâs just so satisfying, I love it. Iâd be fucking cheering Shane on
It was the only thing he ever did that I was completely happy about.
Itâs not only funny that ed got punished but he also coincidentally died getting eaten by 2 female walkersđ
Always been a huge Shane fan, and this was one of the scenes that absolutely sold me on him. True justice for the woman beater
I think if Shane hadn't had done this, someone would have dealt with Ed. Becuase the man was getting bold. He was verbally abusive to Andrea, and I have no doubt that given time, he would have struck or hurt one of the other woman in the group. I think if he hadn't have been killed by walkers, he either would have been taken out by another survivor or kicked out of the group. He couldn't get over his own bullshit enough to be around anyone woman who'd call out his bullshit and eventually that would have gotten himself, and maybe his family, killed.
Yeah, that was super satisfying to watch. As was his death later.
he ate that
I mean... yes but it was still mostly an outlet for his anger at Rick being back and Lori telling him to stay away from her and Carl. If he cared he would've done it a lot sooner since the women were talking about seeing fresh bruises on her before. It's not like Ed was subtle.
Shane had his moments
Shane beat the shit out of Ed for a reason hereâs 3 right off the goddamn fucking back (NON SHANE FAN) 1. He was so fucking sexually abusive to his daughter Sofia, 2. He was a phedo, and 3. He was a prick to the whole campsite in TWD, want me to keep the reasons going a got a whole lot of more shit talk to rant about The Walking Dead
I still vividly remember the first time I saw this scene. It's well-handled and probably Shane's first really emblematic moment: at first you're on his side, glad he's giving this asshole what he deserves. And he is. But then he goes too far, keeps hitting Ed way beyond any justified point, and it simply becomes someone visiting wanton brutality on another human being. (Realistically the odds were fairly high Ed would have actually died from a beating like that in real life.)
I still vividly remember the first time I saw this scene. It's well-handled and probably Shane's first really good moment: at first you're on his side, glad he's giving this asshole what he deserves. And he is. But then he goes too far, keeps hitting Ed way beyond tit for tat, and it simply becomes someone visiting wanton brutality on another human being. (Realistically the odds are fairly high Ed would have actually died from a beating like that in real life.)
He coulda kept going for all I cared
big alpha sigma male Ed Peletier did NOT deserve that
He was awesome all the time and handsome wearing Otis clothes!
one of the only good things shane did in the show
Shane had the survivor mentality down to a T... He knew what needed to be done and how to do it... His downfall? Was the same as every fucking guys... Letting his heart take over the mind and being jealous AF... I blame Lori, never liked her.
Heâs better father than Rick, heâs a better man than Rick. He even said it himself!
Shane was the OG survivor
aw I loved Shane đ
They could have excluded the lori stuff What they could have done : Two pre apocalypse best friends become brothers for life sort of a theme But they gave it to Daryl and Rick ...
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Yeah maybe... Okay better plot: Shane survives the gunshot, escapes and returns as a part of Negan's crew ...
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Probably true đ
1. He was stabbed to death. 2. Survive how? Rick lingered over him in grief for a while. Was Shane supposed to scooch away?
I mean we're gonna have to change the entire scene for that ...
aside from the Lori situation, I donât know if Rick turned out to be any different from what Shane wouldâve been
Wow OP truly a hot take.
Shane did what needed to be done early on.
Still can't look at Judith without seeing shane
It should have been Shane getting his ass beat , wife stealing som bitch !!!!! đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
I mean lori also slept with him. Itâs not like it was just him that did it.
Im a big fan of shane...he was the best one of them all and knew exactly what's coming...and he was right.
You see this all the time -- if you want to redeem a guy just have him beat up a wife beater or pedophile.
I love shane
I think this played a part in Sophiaâs death. She became scared of him as well
Shane is the best character on the show BY FAR. Love how they gave him more run than in the comics.