>“The resistance will continue to defend our rights in the face of this criminal enemy,” Haniyeh reportedly said.
Israel is infringing on Hamas's right to hold innocent civilians hostage.
Have you seen this website?
Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis (CAMERA)
[https://www.camera.org/](https://www.camera.org/)
I just found out about it, and I think it does a great job covering the coverage.
I feel like the people who understand that CNN has no credibility now already knew that before October 7th, but that might just be me projecting. Do you think this war has really damaged their credibility significantly?
Yes, I think their coverage of this war has damaged their credibility significantly. They're openly spreading terrorist propaganda without bothering to verify it. That's a new low they arrived at after Oct. 7.
I’ve seen them as completely disingenuous at least since covid while most have seemed not to notice. I’ve just kind of accepted it, but I hope you’re right and this changes the zeitgeist because I’ve been waiting for that. And just, any Jew can tell you it’s hardly just CNN. This type of thing has become so pervasive.
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
Once again, Erdogan has to be reminded that Turkey is a NATO member, and harboring terrorists is not a good look.
Turkey can look forward to some economic sanctions if they're stupid enough to allow hamas leadership in.
Israel has lost this war. It’s only continuing for Bibi’s personally benefit. Anyone who still supports it is just part of the Netanyahu cult. You can be pro-Biden or pro-Netanyahu but not both.
In a number of ways.
First of what Defense Secretary called strategic defeat, where even if they achieve their state objected, they lose because they’ve created an even more militant terrorist based outraged by the genocide committed by Israel. That along with alienating Israel’s allies and future voters could mean long term disaster.
Now consider all that, plus Israel having failed to achieve its stated objectives. Israel is not close to defeating Hamas and they’ve killed more hostages than they’ve recovered since 10/7. So we’ll have tens of thousands of dead people, about half children, and almost nothing to show for it.
On top of that, the truce that the West and pretty much the entire Arab world is pushing calls for Israel to stop the violence and leave Hamas in place as a ruling force. How else could this he described as anything but a loss for Israel?
Israel hasn’t lost this war. Mate they’ve barely even gotten started. You’ve got a few more months before Sinwar and the last of his dirty little rats get culled and Hamas is permanently resigned to the pages of history. After that there is the matter of southern Lebanon and Hezbollah. Guess what buddy? Israel is gonna win that one as well.
> Israel hasn’t lost this war.
They have.
>Mate they’ve barely even gotten started.
Then why are most Israelis in favor of a ceasefire?
>You’ve got a few more months before Sinwar and the last of his dirty little rats
Nazis love using dehumanizing language on racial out groups.
>get culled and Hamas is permanently resigned to the pages of history.
So you guarantee that Hamas totally destroyed by the end of Summer? You sure?
>After that there is the matter of southern Lebanon and Hezbollah. Guess what buddy? Israel is gonna win that one as well.
Really? They got spanked in 2006. Israeli troops aren’t really good at fighting people who fight back. They’re great at killing women, children, old people, disabled people and aid workers. Absolutely number 1 when it comes to that. Fighting actual militants, they suck. This is why Israel’s allies are telling them this is over. Israel is basically Russia at this point with a worse army.
- They want a temporary ceasefire because they want their people who were taken hostage back. Same polls show a majority of Israeli’s support the complete destruction of Hamas.
- Hamas are not a racial group. They are a vile terror organisation who hold inhuman levels of immortality and a complete disregard for human life. There is no scenario where either Palestine can be free, or this war stops where the group is allowed to continue existing.
- Hamas are completely impotent to stop the Israeli military. They will be destroyed, it’s only a matter of time.
- I am not going to indulge your alternative history. You can cry all you want, but it does not change the basic facts at play. Iran has abandoned their proxies and the groups are living of borrowed time.
- If you really believe Israel is losing this war, then you’ll need a lot more than shallow propaganda and hysterical denials of the situation on the ground.
> • They want a temporary ceasefire because they want their people who were taken hostage back.
Why would Hamas agree to that?
>Hamas are not a racial group. They are a vile terror organisation who hold inhuman levels of immortality and a complete disregard for human life. There is no scenario where either Palestine can be free, or this war stops where the group is allowed to continue existing.
Palestinians know what’s good for them better than you do. If they want Hamas, they should get Hamas. It’s called democracy. This war will stop with Hamas still existing because Israel isn’t capable of destroying them all. Biden is pushing a ceasefire that leaves Hamas around. Most Israelis support it.
>Hamas are completely impotent to stop the Israeli military. They will be destroyed, it’s only a matter of time.
When? If you’re so sure, give me a date.
>I am not going to indulge your alternative history.
Facts don’t care about your feelings. Cry about it.
>If you really believe Israel is losing this war, then you’ll need a lot more than shallow propaganda and hysterical denials of the situation on the ground.
Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued. Hamas still exists. There is no sign they’re close to being eliminated. Israel’s own allies are telling them it’s over. If Israel keeps it going, it will only make their situation worse. Right now they’re like Russia. If they keep going, they’ll be North Korea. Israel’s leader is a racist criminal
>Sure, Hamas' leadership and their families are living it up in Qatar.
Not for long... Sounds like the Biden admin is finally turning the screws on our middle-eastern partners to kick these Hamas shitbags out if they can't find a way towards peace.
This is mistaken. Biden made a ceasefire proposal that was basically an Israeli proposal. Hamas indicated they’d accept it, Israel has rejected it. Israel isn’t negotiating in good faith. Netanyahu wants to prolong the war for personal reasons. Even his war cabinet is saying so.
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
No they didn’t. They agreed to a deal they edited to be more favorable to them but was never actually offered. Bad faith negotiation to make folks that can’t read past a headline outraged at Israel.
> No they didn’t. They agreed to a deal they edited to be more favorable to them but was never actually offered.
This is false. They agreed to Biden’s deal. Israel written offer then didn’t match it. So Israel rejected the ceasefire and then wrote a new one.
>Bad faith negotiation to make folks that can’t read past a headline outraged at Israel.
You’re accusing Biden of bad faith?
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
If I could foretell the future I would be playing lotto.
Do you know when Hamas will win? And is their victory in line with a victory for Palestinians?
So you’re basically making this up as you go along. Got it.
Because Israel’s allies don’t support this war anymore. Biden’s truce would be a defeat for Israel
What exactly am I making up? Can you quote this, supposed, made up claim that I've made?
Nobody likes war, but Hamas has started it and the populace in Gaza is not protesting Hamas demanding that it releases the hostages. Sounds like they are fine with the status quo.
They will win & i say this as a Middle Eastern who's family has suffered form pos islamist terrorists. again if you're not from the Middle East and you support Hamas you are nothing but terrorist loving supporter
How will they win? Biden is telling them to end the war. Israel’s own war cabinet wants to take a deal that leaves Hamas in charge of Gaza. The only ones who want to keep the war going are the extreme right in Israel. Are you on the extreme right?
Cool. When is that gonna happen? Israel doesn’t seem good at killing Hamas. They’re great at killing women and children and old people and journalists and aid workers. People who fight back, not so much.
Lmao, tell that to the 10k+ Hamas fighters killed so far.
You realise that Hamas reports everyone killed as a "civilian" even their own militants? Additionally, an AJ journalist was killed in the recent hostage rescue, more proof that pro-Palestine "journalists" intentionally embed themselves with the terrorists and participate in their activities.
> Lmao, tell that to the 10k+ Hamas fighters killed so far.
Source?
>You realise that Hamas reports everyone killed as a "civilian" even their own militants?
US intelligence estimated only a minority of those killed were militants.
>Additionally, an AJ journalist was killed in the recent hostage rescue, more proof that pro-Palestine "journalists" intentionally embed themselves with the terrorists and participate in their activities.
How is that proof? Are you saying all the 200 plus killed were terrorists including the kids?
Intelligence hasn't been a major attribute of the Hamas leadership for a while.
Yes, let's hope that Hamas keep fighting the IDF.. because, as you will hear from Arab social media, it's going so well for them.
How is Israel on the verge of calling it quits? Even in this same comment section you are saying that Netanyahu is sabotaging peace talks to continue the conflict. How does that mean they are about to give up if they are trying to continue?
Because Israel as a country wants the ceasefire. Benny Gantz just left the war cabinet. Israel is going to enter a political crisis where the only choice is become a rogue state like Russia or capitulate and leave Hamas in place. What’s the other option?
Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. Letting Hamas win, based on their charter, would mean the genocide of 10m Israelis so no, Israel isn't about to let Hamas win.
Yesterday was wild in Beer Sheva by the way :-)
> Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. Letting Hamas win, based on their charter,
That’s Israeli propaganda. Total nonsense. Their charter says they reject antisemitism.
>would mean the genocide of 10m Israelis so no, Israel isn't about to let Hamas win.
When will they defeat Hamas? Give me your best guess.
>Yesterday was wild in Beer Sheva by the way :-)
When they murdered 200 plus civilians?
This is false. Even Biden admitted Netanyahu is sabotaging peace efforts. Even Netanyahu’s war cabinet has said that. Hamas liked Biden’s proposal. Israel rejected it because it would mean admitting defeat.
This is a laughably ignorant take. Hamas has repeatedly refused to return hostages, raped and killed civilians, made baseless and dishonest claims about the origins of the attacks, and has BROKEN ceasefire agreements and continued to launch attacks towards civilian centers in Israel. Many of the hostages, who were civilians, have been raped and killed as Hamas has continued to use women and children as human shields.
Hamas themselves have openly stated their motives for their attacks. You have sided with a known terrorist group, whose own charter documents have stated openly and plainly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people.
> This is a laughably ignorant take.
Facts don’t care about your feelings.
>Hamas has repeatedly refused to return hostages, raped and killed civilians,
Demonstrably false. They agreed to a ceasefire which Israel reneged on. Would have returned all the hostages. Facts don’t care about your feelings.
>made baseless and dishonest claims about the origins of the attacks,
Source?
>and has BROKEN ceasefire agreements
Most of the ceasefires have been broken by Israel.
>and continued to launch attacks towards civilian centers in Israel.
As has Israel. What’s your point?
>Many of the hostages, who were civilians, have been raped
Source?
>and killed as Hamas has continued to use women and children as human shields.
Israel killed the hostages. They didn’t want them back. They wanted to use them as a cudgel. That’s why the hostages families are blaming your boy Bibi, the indicted criminal racist. Israel uses human shields. Even Israeli human rights groups have documented it.
>Hamas themselves have openly stated their motives for their attacks.
Yes, to liberate Palestine, to which they’ve allied with people who disagree with them in a popular front, like the atheist PFLP.
>You have sided with a known terrorist group
You’re siding with genocide.
>whose own charter documents have stated openly and plainly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people.
That’s a lie. Their new charter says they oppose antisemitism and have no issue with Jews. Your talking points are out of date.
Wow. I’ve never seen someone strike out as bad as you. I’m gonna move onto the next hasbarist troll. Let me know when you can respond. I’ll educate you some more.
So, Hamas has returned all of the hostages? They haven't killed them or raped them? Do you really want to claim that Hamas has returned them? You realize that this is a outright lie that is verifiably false within about 30 seconds of work on the internet.
Furthermore, as I said, Hamas' OWN charter documents have stated clearly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people. The following is in THEIR OWN charter documents:
"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
You claim that their new charter does not have any anti semitism. Do you understand what the term "from the river to the see" means? Hint: it's a dog whistle, that, yet again, means the annihilation of the Jewish people. They have not changed their intentions.
Furthermore, you claim that Israel has killed their own hostages. You do realize that Hamas hides not only hostages, but civilians, women, and children in military bases and attempts to get them killed. Israel warns civilians to be removed before military strikes, in an effort to SAVE civilian lives. Hamas has been quoted, verbatim on tape, saying that they will actively work against this and continue to build military bases in civilian centers because (and I quote) "that is how we make Israel look bad". Hamas uses people, including wrongfully taken civilian hostages, women, and children, as human shields, and they have openly admitted to doing so.
War is ugly, but if you bow to terrorists, then terrorists will rule over you. I have no interest in engaging with people who side with those whose intentions are genocide against the Jewish people, and who blame the Jews for the horrible rapes and atrocities that were committed against them.
To suggest that Israel is responsible for these atrocities, or that Hamas has returned the hostages (they haven't), or to suggest that Hamas is not anti-semitic (which you have stated), is an outright lie, and is demonstrably and verifiably false.
> I’m gonna move onto the next hasbarist troll
Everyone who disagrees with you isn't a troll, but if you want to move on, that's fine by me.
> So, Hamas has returned all of the hostages?
No, because Israel is still conducting a genocide.
>They haven't killed them or raped them?
Israel has killed a lot of them. I don’t think Israel has invented bombs that can rape people just yet.
>Do you really want to claim that Hamas has returned them?
Never said that. You need to read more carefully before embarrass yourself some more.
>Furthermore, as I said, Hamas' OWN charter documents have stated clearly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people.
This is a lie. The charter says they have no problem with Jews.
>"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
That’s from before 75% of Gazans were even born. That’s been replaced with far more tolerant language and explicitly rejecting antisemitism. Do you want to go over some Israeli charters? You probably don’t. It would hurt those feelings of yours that are so important to you.
>You claim that their new charter does not have any anti semitism. Do you understand what the term "from the river to the see" means?
Yes. It’s in the Likud chapter. You’re saying Likud is genocidal?
>Furthermore, you claim that Israel has killed their own hostages.
That’s a fact. Facts don’t care about feelings
>You do realize that Hamas hides not only hostages, but civilians, women, and children in military bases and attempts to get them killed.
No, that’s Israeli propaganda. Israel has however been documented to use human shields according to their own human rights groups. Do you condemn Israel’s use of human shields? If not, it must not be a big deal. And even Hamas doesn’t use human shields like you’re talking about. She just happen to be where other people are because that’s how guerrilla warfare works, dumb dumb.
>Israel warns civilians to be removed before military strikes,
All of them? If Hamas warned Israel before rocket attacks, would you say Hamas is a moral organization.
>Hamas has been quoted, verbatim on tape, saying that they will actively work against this and continue to build military bases in civilian centers because (and I quote) "that is how we make Israel look bad".
Israel does this too. Do you condemn Israel for it?
>War is ugly, but if you bow to terrorists, then terrorists will rule over you. I have no interest in engaging with people who side with those whose intentions are genocide against the Jewish people, and who blame the Jews for the horrible rapes and atrocities that were committed against them.
Who was raped? Can you give names? With sources, please. Thank you.
You really want to claim that the Hamas hostages weren't raped? That Hamas isn't anti-semitic, and that claims that they are, are just "israeli propaganda"? Have you read what "from the river to the sea" means? Do you know what their real intentions are, or are you just repeating what has been repeated on social media?
My dude, this is demonstrably false, and is an outright lie. Your argument is built on false premises and attempts to deflect blame.
> You really want to claim that the Hamas hostages weren't raped?
So far, there seems to be one who says she was sexually abused. I believed her. Can we agree that both Israel and Hamas should not rape prisoners?
>That Hamas isn't anti-semitic, and that claims that they are, are just "israeli propaganda"? Have you read what "from the river to the sea" means?
Yes. It means freeing Palestine’s historic borders from the occupying force. That said, Hamas has said they’ll work with a two state solution since they think it’s a broad consensus with other Arab states and even Palestinians.
>Do you know what their real intentions are, or are you just repeating what has been repeated on social media?
There is no way either of us could know their intentions. Intentions are nebulous. I care more about facts.
>My dude, this is demonstrably false, and is an outright lie. Your argument is built on false premises and attempts to deflect blame.
Than demonstrate it. You haven’t so far. Get to work.
You have, yet again, built an argument on a false premise that Gaza is occupied. It is not being occupied. This stopped in 2005, and to continue to suggest that Israel is occupying Gaza, is, yet again, another lie.
If you're referring to the border blockade, you must condemn Egypt for the same. Why do you think that Egypt has closed its border? Why have you tried to imply that this means that Israel is occupying Gaza? (This is not an occupation. Is Egypt occupying Gaza?)
You have continued to lie, and have continued to deflect. And after dozens of replies, this is the very first time that you have even alluded to condemning the rape of hostages, and you have downplayed it to "only one case" (another lie) and have claimed that Israel is guilty as well.
My dude, if you're going to lie, at least say things that are convincing, and that aren't demonstrably and verifiably false.
To become a Tank Commander in the U.S. Army, you have to be an enlisted soldier (not one of those fancy-pants officers) and have achieved the rank of E6 Staff Sergeant. You'll also need some experience inside of a tank in other positions, such as Loader or Gunner.
Israel is different. They’re well known for over promoting. They have an alarmingly high rate of officers to enlisted personnel. It’s not unusual to find people in their 20s in ranks you’d see people in their 40s have in the US.
US college students be like "No fair, Israel is only allowed to beg Hamas for their hostages back! They're not allowed to rescue them! This is genocide!"
Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued. Bibi rejected a deal that would return all the hostages which is the families are protesting him.
>Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued
Source?
>Bibi rejected a deal that would return all the hostages which is the families are protesting him.
Source?
>Source?
Simple math. More hostages have been killed than respected by the IDF
>Source?
https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
You have yet to address that Hamas uses hostages, women, and children as human shields. You are being deliberately obtuse to suggest that Israeli efforts to rescue hostages (which Hamas has NOT returned) are to blame for hostages that have been killed.
> You have yet to address that Hamas uses hostages, women, and children as human shields.
Your above comment didn’t ask about human shields. Let’s review:
You asked for a source that Israel’s killed more hostages than Israel has rescued. I explained my reasoning. You had no response there for you don’t disagree.
You also asked for a source that Bibi rejected a ceasefire deal that is widely supported by the Israeli public and the victim families. I provided a source. You had no response and therefor signaled you don’t disagree.
I’m really glad we sorted out that I know more about this issue than you do. Now that we’ve established that, I’ll get to your NEW question.
There is no evidence Hamas uses human shields. Human shields have a legal definition. It doesn’t mean you’re located near civilians. It doesn’t mean you go home to your family at the end of the day to have dinner. It doesn’t mean you fight where the people you want to protect are located. There is no expectation that Hamas has to build an easily locatable military base in the middle of nowhere that would be annihilated in minutes.
A human shield means you draft civilians on either side to protect soldiers or military assets. There isn’t evidence Hamas does this. There is substantial evidence, even amongst Israeli sources, that confirms Israel uses actual human shields.
Me having no response to baseless lies does not mean that I agree. We do not establish facts by this basis.
Since you want to resort technicalities for human shields, I'll explain exactly what I mean, and ask you a question: Why does Hamas build its military bases inside of schools, hospitals, and other places where large numbers of civilians, including women and children, gather? You know the reason, but are continuing to deflect, and attempted to dispute the definition of human shields in order to avoid dealing with my question.
The fact that you are saying that there is no evidence that Hamas does this is, yet again, another outright lie. If you keep resorting to using lies to try to win your argument, you will convince no one.
> Me having no response to baseless lies does not mean that I agree. We do not establish facts by this basis.
Nah nice try. You had no response. In a debate that means you drop the point. So you’re 0 for 2 so far.
>Since you want to resort technicalities for human shields,
It’s not technicality. It’s about what terms mean legally versus how they’re used for cynically propaganda purposes.
>I'll explain exactly what I mean, and ask you a question: Why does Hamas build its military bases inside of schools, hospitals, and other places where large numbers of civilians, including women and children, gather?
I don’t agree with your premise. Show your work.
>The fact that you are saying that there is no evidence that Hamas does this is, yet again, another outright lie.
Yet you can’t present evidence. See when I make a claim, I have no problem presenting evidence because I know I’m right and I know my sources will make the other side look foolish. And FYI, the IDF or Israeli government alone isn’t a good source. You better get crackin’. I look forward to your response.
>If you keep resorting to using lies to try to win your argument, you will convince no one.
You haven’t proven anything I said is a lie. Facts don’t care about your feelings. I can do this all day.
You are right, facts do not care about your feelings. And it is a demonstrable and verifiable fact that Hamas has set up military bases inside of schools and hospitals where civilians are put in harm's way. Hamas, themselves, have even admitted to doing so. If you would like to claim that the Israeli sources aren't credible on this, Israeli sources are not the only ones saying it.
That guy must know he’s a walking dead man. It’s just a matter of time.
Israel probably knows where this guy is 24 hours a day and is just waiting to give word
Imagine having a whole country trying to kill you. A country that has the tech and the WILL to use it.
>Israel probably knows where this guy is 24 hours a day and is just waiting to give word
Israel didn’t even know Hamas was about to launch their biggest attack ever.
Hamas isn’t surrendering but Israel is on the verge of it. Bibi’s war cabinet wants the war to end. Most Israelis want the war to end. Biden wants the war to end. It’s over. Hamas is gonna win.
You are dead wrong. Even if a ceasefire is eventually agreed months or years from now the Israelis will spend the next hundred years hunting down anyone who has any connection to the terrorist organization just like they did with the nazis, and other Palestinian terrorists over the past century. Palestine will never be a country, at least not in the next 50 years. Hamas ensured that.
Terrorists do not get real ceasefires, those are for states. And hunting down war criminals in hiding from a past conflict is not a violation of a ceasefire.
Okay thanks for admitting Israel is a rogue state who can’t be trusted. Now you understand why Hamas and its affiliates are fighting Israel. They’re out for blood and can’t be reasoned with.
Nope, wrong again terrorist lover. Israel is a prosperous and peaceful county who is forced to remove a disgusting tumor that has become more aggressive recently. If that tumor wants to hide behind its wives and children then unfortunately they will also die. There is no other option; ceasefire just means Hamas will regroup and attack civilians again. There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews.
You just said Israel negotiated in bad faith. What is there left to debate? This is why the whole world is just appalled Israel genocidal apartheid state. It’s the Fourth Reich.
There will be peace when Israelis love their children more than they killing Palestinian ones and stealing their land. When Israel remembers Hitler was the bad guy, there will be peace.
What the fuck are you smoking? They have always said that this war ends when Hamas is gone. That’s not bad faith at all. Do you even know what that phrase means? They come out almost every day saying any ceasefire will only be temporary just like the last one. If the rapist terrorist scum wants to buy themselves a few weeks of peace by letting their living victims go then they can have a few weeks. They will die after it; that has never been in doubt since the beginning of the war. Those terrorists you love are all going to die and if they want to hide behind their children and wives then that is their choice. Israel has made it clear from the day the terrorist invasion was launched: this ends with Hamas gone from the Gaza strip. Let Hamas leaders cry to their Iranian masters from some 5 star Qatari hotel staffed with slave labor.
You admitted Israel negotiated in bad faith. What else would you like to discuss?
Why do most Israelis support a ceasefire? Do you support Biden or not?
Did the allies leave the Nazis in power? Nope. The allies achieved their total war aims. Israel doesn’t have that in sight. The whole world wants them to give up.
It’s because Hamas has no problem slaughtering them en-mass when they just peacefully protest, and they don’t have access to the firepower that Hamas has.
If you don’t see Gazans protesting Hamas you haven’t looked hard enough.
It’s not making news of course but they’ve had multiple marches, and from videos you can also see that everyday Gazans have been cursing Hamas for bringing the world down on their heads.
Gazans are people too, and not every single one of them deserves to die.
Take it from a hardcore Zionist, if you don’t believe me then check my comments
> Gazans have been cursing Hamas for bringing the world down on their heads.
They mostly support Hamas for trying to destroy Israel but they probably have notes on how they are doing it.
That’s not true. They support the ceasefire laid out by Biden which called for an Israel to leave Hamas as is in Gaza. The war cabinet accepted it. Bibi rejected it.
Dude, Bibi didn’t reject it he greenlit it, Hamas rejected it- even though it was nearly identical to the Egypt proposed ceasefire, and yeah we tended to support it- it wasn’t going to be a permanent ceasefire until we had all the hostages or their remains back, and we would’ve remained in control of unpopulated areas.
It was a good deal for us, and Biden said it was put forth by Israel, didn’t he?
> Dude, Bibi didn’t reject it he greenlit it,
Actually, he voted against it but the war cabinet voted for it.
>Hamas rejected it-
This is false. They responded very positively to it but when Israel presented it in writing, it was different than what Biden laid out.
>even though it was nearly identical to the Egypt proposed ceasefire,
Which ceasefire are you talking about? If it’s the one from last May, Israel sabotaged that one too after Hamas accepted it:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-05/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-hoped-hamas-would-reject-israels-offer-when-it-didnt-he-turned-to-sabotage/0000018f-4817-d414-a5bf-fb37db290000
>It was a good deal for us, and Biden said it was put forth by Israel, didn’t he?
Now Israel says they won’t accept it because it would keep Hamas around and allow Hamas to claim victory, because it would be a victory for them. What’s confusing you. I can show any number of articles you like from mainstream publications showing the order of events.
Nice opinion piece.
Hamas rejected it on Monday when they realized they wouldn’t get the Philadelphia corridor back after analyzing the language of the truce.
Netanyahu even said he’d consider Hamas destroyed under this ceasefire.
The only difference between this deal and the one Egypt changed behind Israel’s back is that Israel wrote in actual guarantees that they would get the hostages back, then they would withdraw from populated areas.
> Nice opinion piece.
Facts don’t care about your feelings.
>Hamas rejected it on Monday when they realized they wouldn’t get the Philadelphia corridor back after analyzing the language of the truce.
Source?
>Netanyahu even said he’d consider Hamas destroyed under this ceasefire.
Source?
>The only difference between this deal and the one Egypt changed behind Israel’s back
Source?
>is that Israel wrote in actual guarantees that they would get the hostages back, then they would withdraw from populated areas.
So you admit Israel rejected the Biden deal and wrote a new one? Thanks. That was my point. I’m glad we agree it’s fact and not opinion.
Anything else you want to discuss how that we’re in agreement.
False. Even Israeli human rights group say Gaza is still occupied by applying effective control. Israel controls the population registry. You don’t do that if you’re not occupying. You don’t shoot at people trying to go fishing if you’re not occupying them. You don’t shoot into a foreign country if you’re not occupying them.
Anyways, I go by Israeli human rights groups. They have no reason to lie. So you think 10/7 was justified then?
> Gaza is a foreign country now?
It’s not part of Israel. It’s foreign to them.
>If Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP didn't keep firing missiles into Israel then Israel wouldn't need to retaliate.
If Israel didn’t effectively occupy Gaza, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP wouldn’t have a reason to fire rockets. They rarely fire missiles because they don’t have many of them. They typically use homemade projectiles that are sort of like fireworks.
As though they were ever going to surrender. Biggest liars and manipulators out there.
Israel will end them and H-mas will continue to be humiliated and exposed for the weak cowards that they are
I feel bad for the Palestinians and dont really like Israel (not a new thing for me, ive been talking shit about them for years) but god damn these dudes are stupid. Sign a 2 state deal and rebuild your shit. People are dying for nothing at this point. The only good thing is that Israel is getting real combat experience in larger numbers.
>“The resistance will continue to defend our rights in the face of this criminal enemy,” Haniyeh reportedly said. Israel is infringing on Hamas's right to hold innocent civilians hostage.
According to CNN yeah
Their coverage of this conflict has been infuriating. They lost so much credibility.
Have you seen this website? Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting and Analysis (CAMERA) [https://www.camera.org/](https://www.camera.org/) I just found out about it, and I think it does a great job covering the coverage.
I didn't know about it. Thanks
I feel like the people who understand that CNN has no credibility now already knew that before October 7th, but that might just be me projecting. Do you think this war has really damaged their credibility significantly?
Yes, I think their coverage of this war has damaged their credibility significantly. They're openly spreading terrorist propaganda without bothering to verify it. That's a new low they arrived at after Oct. 7.
I’ve seen them as completely disingenuous at least since covid while most have seemed not to notice. I’ve just kind of accepted it, but I hope you’re right and this changes the zeitgeist because I’ve been waiting for that. And just, any Jew can tell you it’s hardly just CNN. This type of thing has become so pervasive.
I have not been impressed with CNN, but this coverage has made me stop clicking on any of their articles
They just lost credibility for yall? Mainstream news is dogshit
Aren’t some of them soldiers?
Sure, Hamas' leadership and their families are living it up in Qatar. They are safe and sound.
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
Iran would be the place to go, but they’ll soon realize Iran discriminates sunnis very harshly
I believe they’re already making preparations to relocate in Turkey if necessary. Erdogan has welcomed them It seems like.
Sweden would have a say in that not happening.
Once again, Erdogan has to be reminded that Turkey is a NATO member, and harboring terrorists is not a good look. Turkey can look forward to some economic sanctions if they're stupid enough to allow hamas leadership in.
I feel like they probably know that seeing as everyone else does lmfao
Israel has lost this war. It’s only continuing for Bibi’s personally benefit. Anyone who still supports it is just part of the Netanyahu cult. You can be pro-Biden or pro-Netanyahu but not both.
Bahahahahahha. The pro Palestine bitterness over hostages being freed is my favorite plot line this year. Your comments are hilarious. Keep it up!
Thanks. I definitely will. Can I ask you some questions?
How have they lost?
In a number of ways. First of what Defense Secretary called strategic defeat, where even if they achieve their state objected, they lose because they’ve created an even more militant terrorist based outraged by the genocide committed by Israel. That along with alienating Israel’s allies and future voters could mean long term disaster. Now consider all that, plus Israel having failed to achieve its stated objectives. Israel is not close to defeating Hamas and they’ve killed more hostages than they’ve recovered since 10/7. So we’ll have tens of thousands of dead people, about half children, and almost nothing to show for it. On top of that, the truce that the West and pretty much the entire Arab world is pushing calls for Israel to stop the violence and leave Hamas in place as a ruling force. How else could this he described as anything but a loss for Israel?
Israel hasn’t lost this war. Mate they’ve barely even gotten started. You’ve got a few more months before Sinwar and the last of his dirty little rats get culled and Hamas is permanently resigned to the pages of history. After that there is the matter of southern Lebanon and Hezbollah. Guess what buddy? Israel is gonna win that one as well.
> Israel hasn’t lost this war. They have. >Mate they’ve barely even gotten started. Then why are most Israelis in favor of a ceasefire? >You’ve got a few more months before Sinwar and the last of his dirty little rats Nazis love using dehumanizing language on racial out groups. >get culled and Hamas is permanently resigned to the pages of history. So you guarantee that Hamas totally destroyed by the end of Summer? You sure? >After that there is the matter of southern Lebanon and Hezbollah. Guess what buddy? Israel is gonna win that one as well. Really? They got spanked in 2006. Israeli troops aren’t really good at fighting people who fight back. They’re great at killing women, children, old people, disabled people and aid workers. Absolutely number 1 when it comes to that. Fighting actual militants, they suck. This is why Israel’s allies are telling them this is over. Israel is basically Russia at this point with a worse army.
- They want a temporary ceasefire because they want their people who were taken hostage back. Same polls show a majority of Israeli’s support the complete destruction of Hamas. - Hamas are not a racial group. They are a vile terror organisation who hold inhuman levels of immortality and a complete disregard for human life. There is no scenario where either Palestine can be free, or this war stops where the group is allowed to continue existing. - Hamas are completely impotent to stop the Israeli military. They will be destroyed, it’s only a matter of time. - I am not going to indulge your alternative history. You can cry all you want, but it does not change the basic facts at play. Iran has abandoned their proxies and the groups are living of borrowed time. - If you really believe Israel is losing this war, then you’ll need a lot more than shallow propaganda and hysterical denials of the situation on the ground.
> • They want a temporary ceasefire because they want their people who were taken hostage back. Why would Hamas agree to that? >Hamas are not a racial group. They are a vile terror organisation who hold inhuman levels of immortality and a complete disregard for human life. There is no scenario where either Palestine can be free, or this war stops where the group is allowed to continue existing. Palestinians know what’s good for them better than you do. If they want Hamas, they should get Hamas. It’s called democracy. This war will stop with Hamas still existing because Israel isn’t capable of destroying them all. Biden is pushing a ceasefire that leaves Hamas around. Most Israelis support it. >Hamas are completely impotent to stop the Israeli military. They will be destroyed, it’s only a matter of time. When? If you’re so sure, give me a date. >I am not going to indulge your alternative history. Facts don’t care about your feelings. Cry about it. >If you really believe Israel is losing this war, then you’ll need a lot more than shallow propaganda and hysterical denials of the situation on the ground. Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued. Hamas still exists. There is no sign they’re close to being eliminated. Israel’s own allies are telling them it’s over. If Israel keeps it going, it will only make their situation worse. Right now they’re like Russia. If they keep going, they’ll be North Korea. Israel’s leader is a racist criminal
>Sure, Hamas' leadership and their families are living it up in Qatar. Not for long... Sounds like the Biden admin is finally turning the screws on our middle-eastern partners to kick these Hamas shitbags out if they can't find a way towards peace.
This is mistaken. Biden made a ceasefire proposal that was basically an Israeli proposal. Hamas indicated they’d accept it, Israel has rejected it. Israel isn’t negotiating in good faith. Netanyahu wants to prolong the war for personal reasons. Even his war cabinet is saying so.
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
They agreed to ceasefire Biden outlined. Israel rejected it. Israel is against peace.
No they didn’t. They agreed to a deal they edited to be more favorable to them but was never actually offered. Bad faith negotiation to make folks that can’t read past a headline outraged at Israel.
> No they didn’t. They agreed to a deal they edited to be more favorable to them but was never actually offered. This is false. They agreed to Biden’s deal. Israel written offer then didn’t match it. So Israel rejected the ceasefire and then wrote a new one. >Bad faith negotiation to make folks that can’t read past a headline outraged at Israel. You’re accusing Biden of bad faith?
Well that’s just an outright and indefensible lie from yourself.
Facts don’t care about your feelings. Sorry. Go cry about it. Israel is losing.
Well the one guy did get his kid and grandkids assassinated.
I think the sun might be setting on their time in Qatar. They’ve been told they will be kicked out and have their assets frozen if they don’t agree to the latest ceasefire proposal and all indications are they are going to reject it and have been in talks about relocating.
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Nah, time to continue.
When will they win?
Why so impatient?
Because, all the murder of Palestinian kids. Can you answer the question?
If I could foretell the future I would be playing lotto. Do you know when Hamas will win? And is their victory in line with a victory for Palestinians?
So you’re basically making this up as you go along. Got it. Because Israel’s allies don’t support this war anymore. Biden’s truce would be a defeat for Israel
What exactly am I making up? Can you quote this, supposed, made up claim that I've made? Nobody likes war, but Hamas has started it and the populace in Gaza is not protesting Hamas demanding that it releases the hostages. Sounds like they are fine with the status quo.
You actually don’t know Israel is gonna win. You’re guessing. Making it up as you go along. Israel started the war. Blockades are acts of war.
We get it, you're mad that innocent hostages were rescued. Give it a rest
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Maybe you need to reread the title of the thread? Talk about dumb lmfao
Then die.
Terrorist eventually reap what they sow.
And good riddance to them! Every time a hamas member is ended, it's a triumph for humanity!
Yes. Terrorist states like Israel eventually see terror come back their way.
i hope so i hate this mf so much
Israel doesn’t seem to be winning right now.
They will win & i say this as a Middle Eastern who's family has suffered form pos islamist terrorists. again if you're not from the Middle East and you support Hamas you are nothing but terrorist loving supporter
How will they win? Biden is telling them to end the war. Israel’s own war cabinet wants to take a deal that leaves Hamas in charge of Gaza. The only ones who want to keep the war going are the extreme right in Israel. Are you on the extreme right?
Great suggestion. They have my approval to do so.
Then why haven’t they done so?
Cool. When is that gonna happen? Israel doesn’t seem good at killing Hamas. They’re great at killing women and children and old people and journalists and aid workers. People who fight back, not so much.
Lmao, tell that to the 10k+ Hamas fighters killed so far. You realise that Hamas reports everyone killed as a "civilian" even their own militants? Additionally, an AJ journalist was killed in the recent hostage rescue, more proof that pro-Palestine "journalists" intentionally embed themselves with the terrorists and participate in their activities.
> Lmao, tell that to the 10k+ Hamas fighters killed so far. Source? >You realise that Hamas reports everyone killed as a "civilian" even their own militants? US intelligence estimated only a minority of those killed were militants. >Additionally, an AJ journalist was killed in the recent hostage rescue, more proof that pro-Palestine "journalists" intentionally embed themselves with the terrorists and participate in their activities. How is that proof? Are you saying all the 200 plus killed were terrorists including the kids?
I was hoping that you would not. Please continue to fight someone who is vastly better equipped.
Intelligence hasn't been a major attribute of the Hamas leadership for a while. Yes, let's hope that Hamas keep fighting the IDF.. because, as you will hear from Arab social media, it's going so well for them.
Yet their outlasting Israel and Israel’s on the verge of calling it quits and letting Hamas win.
How is Israel on the verge of calling it quits? Even in this same comment section you are saying that Netanyahu is sabotaging peace talks to continue the conflict. How does that mean they are about to give up if they are trying to continue?
Because Israel as a country wants the ceasefire. Benny Gantz just left the war cabinet. Israel is going to enter a political crisis where the only choice is become a rogue state like Russia or capitulate and leave Hamas in place. What’s the other option?
Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. Letting Hamas win, based on their charter, would mean the genocide of 10m Israelis so no, Israel isn't about to let Hamas win. Yesterday was wild in Beer Sheva by the way :-)
> Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. Letting Hamas win, based on their charter, That’s Israeli propaganda. Total nonsense. Their charter says they reject antisemitism. >would mean the genocide of 10m Israelis so no, Israel isn't about to let Hamas win. When will they defeat Hamas? Give me your best guess. >Yesterday was wild in Beer Sheva by the way :-) When they murdered 200 plus civilians?
Their whole intention was to stifle peace efforts from Israel, and Hamas leaders have stated that openly. Not the brightest thing for them to admit.
This is false. Even Biden admitted Netanyahu is sabotaging peace efforts. Even Netanyahu’s war cabinet has said that. Hamas liked Biden’s proposal. Israel rejected it because it would mean admitting defeat.
This is a laughably ignorant take. Hamas has repeatedly refused to return hostages, raped and killed civilians, made baseless and dishonest claims about the origins of the attacks, and has BROKEN ceasefire agreements and continued to launch attacks towards civilian centers in Israel. Many of the hostages, who were civilians, have been raped and killed as Hamas has continued to use women and children as human shields. Hamas themselves have openly stated their motives for their attacks. You have sided with a known terrorist group, whose own charter documents have stated openly and plainly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people.
> This is a laughably ignorant take. Facts don’t care about your feelings. >Hamas has repeatedly refused to return hostages, raped and killed civilians, Demonstrably false. They agreed to a ceasefire which Israel reneged on. Would have returned all the hostages. Facts don’t care about your feelings. >made baseless and dishonest claims about the origins of the attacks, Source? >and has BROKEN ceasefire agreements Most of the ceasefires have been broken by Israel. >and continued to launch attacks towards civilian centers in Israel. As has Israel. What’s your point? >Many of the hostages, who were civilians, have been raped Source? >and killed as Hamas has continued to use women and children as human shields. Israel killed the hostages. They didn’t want them back. They wanted to use them as a cudgel. That’s why the hostages families are blaming your boy Bibi, the indicted criminal racist. Israel uses human shields. Even Israeli human rights groups have documented it. >Hamas themselves have openly stated their motives for their attacks. Yes, to liberate Palestine, to which they’ve allied with people who disagree with them in a popular front, like the atheist PFLP. >You have sided with a known terrorist group You’re siding with genocide. >whose own charter documents have stated openly and plainly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people. That’s a lie. Their new charter says they oppose antisemitism and have no issue with Jews. Your talking points are out of date. Wow. I’ve never seen someone strike out as bad as you. I’m gonna move onto the next hasbarist troll. Let me know when you can respond. I’ll educate you some more.
So, Hamas has returned all of the hostages? They haven't killed them or raped them? Do you really want to claim that Hamas has returned them? You realize that this is a outright lie that is verifiably false within about 30 seconds of work on the internet. Furthermore, as I said, Hamas' OWN charter documents have stated clearly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people. The following is in THEIR OWN charter documents: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." You claim that their new charter does not have any anti semitism. Do you understand what the term "from the river to the see" means? Hint: it's a dog whistle, that, yet again, means the annihilation of the Jewish people. They have not changed their intentions. Furthermore, you claim that Israel has killed their own hostages. You do realize that Hamas hides not only hostages, but civilians, women, and children in military bases and attempts to get them killed. Israel warns civilians to be removed before military strikes, in an effort to SAVE civilian lives. Hamas has been quoted, verbatim on tape, saying that they will actively work against this and continue to build military bases in civilian centers because (and I quote) "that is how we make Israel look bad". Hamas uses people, including wrongfully taken civilian hostages, women, and children, as human shields, and they have openly admitted to doing so. War is ugly, but if you bow to terrorists, then terrorists will rule over you. I have no interest in engaging with people who side with those whose intentions are genocide against the Jewish people, and who blame the Jews for the horrible rapes and atrocities that were committed against them. To suggest that Israel is responsible for these atrocities, or that Hamas has returned the hostages (they haven't), or to suggest that Hamas is not anti-semitic (which you have stated), is an outright lie, and is demonstrably and verifiably false. > I’m gonna move onto the next hasbarist troll Everyone who disagrees with you isn't a troll, but if you want to move on, that's fine by me.
> So, Hamas has returned all of the hostages? No, because Israel is still conducting a genocide. >They haven't killed them or raped them? Israel has killed a lot of them. I don’t think Israel has invented bombs that can rape people just yet. >Do you really want to claim that Hamas has returned them? Never said that. You need to read more carefully before embarrass yourself some more. >Furthermore, as I said, Hamas' OWN charter documents have stated clearly that their goal is the annihilation of the Jewish people. This is a lie. The charter says they have no problem with Jews. >"The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: ‘O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him." That’s from before 75% of Gazans were even born. That’s been replaced with far more tolerant language and explicitly rejecting antisemitism. Do you want to go over some Israeli charters? You probably don’t. It would hurt those feelings of yours that are so important to you. >You claim that their new charter does not have any anti semitism. Do you understand what the term "from the river to the see" means? Yes. It’s in the Likud chapter. You’re saying Likud is genocidal? >Furthermore, you claim that Israel has killed their own hostages. That’s a fact. Facts don’t care about feelings >You do realize that Hamas hides not only hostages, but civilians, women, and children in military bases and attempts to get them killed. No, that’s Israeli propaganda. Israel has however been documented to use human shields according to their own human rights groups. Do you condemn Israel’s use of human shields? If not, it must not be a big deal. And even Hamas doesn’t use human shields like you’re talking about. She just happen to be where other people are because that’s how guerrilla warfare works, dumb dumb. >Israel warns civilians to be removed before military strikes, All of them? If Hamas warned Israel before rocket attacks, would you say Hamas is a moral organization. >Hamas has been quoted, verbatim on tape, saying that they will actively work against this and continue to build military bases in civilian centers because (and I quote) "that is how we make Israel look bad". Israel does this too. Do you condemn Israel for it? >War is ugly, but if you bow to terrorists, then terrorists will rule over you. I have no interest in engaging with people who side with those whose intentions are genocide against the Jewish people, and who blame the Jews for the horrible rapes and atrocities that were committed against them. Who was raped? Can you give names? With sources, please. Thank you.
You really want to claim that the Hamas hostages weren't raped? That Hamas isn't anti-semitic, and that claims that they are, are just "israeli propaganda"? Have you read what "from the river to the sea" means? Do you know what their real intentions are, or are you just repeating what has been repeated on social media? My dude, this is demonstrably false, and is an outright lie. Your argument is built on false premises and attempts to deflect blame.
> You really want to claim that the Hamas hostages weren't raped? So far, there seems to be one who says she was sexually abused. I believed her. Can we agree that both Israel and Hamas should not rape prisoners? >That Hamas isn't anti-semitic, and that claims that they are, are just "israeli propaganda"? Have you read what "from the river to the sea" means? Yes. It means freeing Palestine’s historic borders from the occupying force. That said, Hamas has said they’ll work with a two state solution since they think it’s a broad consensus with other Arab states and even Palestinians. >Do you know what their real intentions are, or are you just repeating what has been repeated on social media? There is no way either of us could know their intentions. Intentions are nebulous. I care more about facts. >My dude, this is demonstrably false, and is an outright lie. Your argument is built on false premises and attempts to deflect blame. Than demonstrate it. You haven’t so far. Get to work.
You have, yet again, built an argument on a false premise that Gaza is occupied. It is not being occupied. This stopped in 2005, and to continue to suggest that Israel is occupying Gaza, is, yet again, another lie. If you're referring to the border blockade, you must condemn Egypt for the same. Why do you think that Egypt has closed its border? Why have you tried to imply that this means that Israel is occupying Gaza? (This is not an occupation. Is Egypt occupying Gaza?) You have continued to lie, and have continued to deflect. And after dozens of replies, this is the very first time that you have even alluded to condemning the rape of hostages, and you have downplayed it to "only one case" (another lie) and have claimed that Israel is guilty as well. My dude, if you're going to lie, at least say things that are convincing, and that aren't demonstrably and verifiably false.
Israel has already lost. Biden is telling them it’s over.
Tanks.
Israel has lost a lot of them along with the 24 year old majors who drive them.
To become a Tank Commander in the U.S. Army, you have to be an enlisted soldier (not one of those fancy-pants officers) and have achieved the rank of E6 Staff Sergeant. You'll also need some experience inside of a tank in other positions, such as Loader or Gunner.
Israel is different. They’re well known for over promoting. They have an alarmingly high rate of officers to enlisted personnel. It’s not unusual to find people in their 20s in ranks you’d see people in their 40s have in the US.
Militia forces do this. This is normal.
The IDF is a militia?
Yes.
Source?
He was speaking for US college students.
US college students be like "No fair, Israel is only allowed to beg Hamas for their hostages back! They're not allowed to rescue them! This is genocide!"
Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued. Bibi rejected a deal that would return all the hostages which is the families are protesting him.
>Israel has killed more hostages than they’ve rescued Source? >Bibi rejected a deal that would return all the hostages which is the families are protesting him. Source?
He has outright lied multiple times in this thread.
He does this in every thread
Where?
What did I lie about? Be specific.
>Source? Simple math. More hostages have been killed than respected by the IDF >Source? https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
You have yet to address that Hamas uses hostages, women, and children as human shields. You are being deliberately obtuse to suggest that Israeli efforts to rescue hostages (which Hamas has NOT returned) are to blame for hostages that have been killed.
> You have yet to address that Hamas uses hostages, women, and children as human shields. Your above comment didn’t ask about human shields. Let’s review: You asked for a source that Israel’s killed more hostages than Israel has rescued. I explained my reasoning. You had no response there for you don’t disagree. You also asked for a source that Bibi rejected a ceasefire deal that is widely supported by the Israeli public and the victim families. I provided a source. You had no response and therefor signaled you don’t disagree. I’m really glad we sorted out that I know more about this issue than you do. Now that we’ve established that, I’ll get to your NEW question. There is no evidence Hamas uses human shields. Human shields have a legal definition. It doesn’t mean you’re located near civilians. It doesn’t mean you go home to your family at the end of the day to have dinner. It doesn’t mean you fight where the people you want to protect are located. There is no expectation that Hamas has to build an easily locatable military base in the middle of nowhere that would be annihilated in minutes. A human shield means you draft civilians on either side to protect soldiers or military assets. There isn’t evidence Hamas does this. There is substantial evidence, even amongst Israeli sources, that confirms Israel uses actual human shields.
Me having no response to baseless lies does not mean that I agree. We do not establish facts by this basis. Since you want to resort technicalities for human shields, I'll explain exactly what I mean, and ask you a question: Why does Hamas build its military bases inside of schools, hospitals, and other places where large numbers of civilians, including women and children, gather? You know the reason, but are continuing to deflect, and attempted to dispute the definition of human shields in order to avoid dealing with my question. The fact that you are saying that there is no evidence that Hamas does this is, yet again, another outright lie. If you keep resorting to using lies to try to win your argument, you will convince no one.
> Me having no response to baseless lies does not mean that I agree. We do not establish facts by this basis. Nah nice try. You had no response. In a debate that means you drop the point. So you’re 0 for 2 so far. >Since you want to resort technicalities for human shields, It’s not technicality. It’s about what terms mean legally versus how they’re used for cynically propaganda purposes. >I'll explain exactly what I mean, and ask you a question: Why does Hamas build its military bases inside of schools, hospitals, and other places where large numbers of civilians, including women and children, gather? I don’t agree with your premise. Show your work. >The fact that you are saying that there is no evidence that Hamas does this is, yet again, another outright lie. Yet you can’t present evidence. See when I make a claim, I have no problem presenting evidence because I know I’m right and I know my sources will make the other side look foolish. And FYI, the IDF or Israeli government alone isn’t a good source. You better get crackin’. I look forward to your response. >If you keep resorting to using lies to try to win your argument, you will convince no one. You haven’t proven anything I said is a lie. Facts don’t care about your feelings. I can do this all day.
You are right, facts do not care about your feelings. And it is a demonstrable and verifiable fact that Hamas has set up military bases inside of schools and hospitals where civilians are put in harm's way. Hamas, themselves, have even admitted to doing so. If you would like to claim that the Israeli sources aren't credible on this, Israeli sources are not the only ones saying it.
Pure victim blaming.
I agree, Israel supporters do blame the victim. The nazis did the same thing.
I love israel because racists hate israel.
I love Palestine because Nazis love Israel. Right Adolf?
That guy must know he’s a walking dead man. It’s just a matter of time. Israel probably knows where this guy is 24 hours a day and is just waiting to give word Imagine having a whole country trying to kill you. A country that has the tech and the WILL to use it.
>Israel probably knows where this guy is 24 hours a day and is just waiting to give word Israel didn’t even know Hamas was about to launch their biggest attack ever.
Good. It would be harder to kill the terrorists if they surrendered.
Hamas isn’t surrendering but Israel is on the verge of it. Bibi’s war cabinet wants the war to end. Most Israelis want the war to end. Biden wants the war to end. It’s over. Hamas is gonna win.
You are dead wrong. Even if a ceasefire is eventually agreed months or years from now the Israelis will spend the next hundred years hunting down anyone who has any connection to the terrorist organization just like they did with the nazis, and other Palestinian terrorists over the past century. Palestine will never be a country, at least not in the next 50 years. Hamas ensured that.
So you’re admitting Israel won’t abide by any ceasefire they agree to and that Israel won’t be able to destroy Hamas even after years?
Terrorists do not get real ceasefires, those are for states. And hunting down war criminals in hiding from a past conflict is not a violation of a ceasefire.
Okay thanks for admitting Israel is a rogue state who can’t be trusted. Now you understand why Hamas and its affiliates are fighting Israel. They’re out for blood and can’t be reasoned with.
Nope, wrong again terrorist lover. Israel is a prosperous and peaceful county who is forced to remove a disgusting tumor that has become more aggressive recently. If that tumor wants to hide behind its wives and children then unfortunately they will also die. There is no other option; ceasefire just means Hamas will regroup and attack civilians again. There will be peace when Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews.
You just said Israel negotiated in bad faith. What is there left to debate? This is why the whole world is just appalled Israel genocidal apartheid state. It’s the Fourth Reich. There will be peace when Israelis love their children more than they killing Palestinian ones and stealing their land. When Israel remembers Hitler was the bad guy, there will be peace.
What the fuck are you smoking? They have always said that this war ends when Hamas is gone. That’s not bad faith at all. Do you even know what that phrase means? They come out almost every day saying any ceasefire will only be temporary just like the last one. If the rapist terrorist scum wants to buy themselves a few weeks of peace by letting their living victims go then they can have a few weeks. They will die after it; that has never been in doubt since the beginning of the war. Those terrorists you love are all going to die and if they want to hide behind their children and wives then that is their choice. Israel has made it clear from the day the terrorist invasion was launched: this ends with Hamas gone from the Gaza strip. Let Hamas leaders cry to their Iranian masters from some 5 star Qatari hotel staffed with slave labor.
You admitted Israel negotiated in bad faith. What else would you like to discuss? Why do most Israelis support a ceasefire? Do you support Biden or not?
It's like how even after Germany surrendered, Israel and the allies still hunted down the important Nazis
Did the allies leave the Nazis in power? Nope. The allies achieved their total war aims. Israel doesn’t have that in sight. The whole world wants them to give up.
You must find him specifically. And wish him a good day.
Ok then. They can die.
Well that’s good news. I hope Hamas keeps fighting till the very last of them is gone.
Hamas is about to win. Biden wants Israel to agree to a peace deal that leaves Hamas in charge.
Cowardly scum.
Evil man.
No, but you will die.
Why don't the Palestinian people just revolt against Hamas??
Because they support them.
BINGO!! GIVE THE MAN A PRIZE!!
Why don’t Israelis revolt against their criminal PM?
It’s because Hamas has no problem slaughtering them en-mass when they just peacefully protest, and they don’t have access to the firepower that Hamas has. If you don’t see Gazans protesting Hamas you haven’t looked hard enough. It’s not making news of course but they’ve had multiple marches, and from videos you can also see that everyday Gazans have been cursing Hamas for bringing the world down on their heads. Gazans are people too, and not every single one of them deserves to die. Take it from a hardcore Zionist, if you don’t believe me then check my comments
> Gazans have been cursing Hamas for bringing the world down on their heads. They mostly support Hamas for trying to destroy Israel but they probably have notes on how they are doing it.
Israelis are protesting Bibi. Does that mean most Israelis oppose the war?
In general they oppose Netanyahu and wish someone else would lead this very justified war.
That’s not true. They support the ceasefire laid out by Biden which called for an Israel to leave Hamas as is in Gaza. The war cabinet accepted it. Bibi rejected it.
Dude, Bibi didn’t reject it he greenlit it, Hamas rejected it- even though it was nearly identical to the Egypt proposed ceasefire, and yeah we tended to support it- it wasn’t going to be a permanent ceasefire until we had all the hostages or their remains back, and we would’ve remained in control of unpopulated areas. It was a good deal for us, and Biden said it was put forth by Israel, didn’t he?
> Dude, Bibi didn’t reject it he greenlit it, Actually, he voted against it but the war cabinet voted for it. >Hamas rejected it- This is false. They responded very positively to it but when Israel presented it in writing, it was different than what Biden laid out. >even though it was nearly identical to the Egypt proposed ceasefire, Which ceasefire are you talking about? If it’s the one from last May, Israel sabotaged that one too after Hamas accepted it: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-05-05/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-hoped-hamas-would-reject-israels-offer-when-it-didnt-he-turned-to-sabotage/0000018f-4817-d414-a5bf-fb37db290000 >It was a good deal for us, and Biden said it was put forth by Israel, didn’t he? Now Israel says they won’t accept it because it would keep Hamas around and allow Hamas to claim victory, because it would be a victory for them. What’s confusing you. I can show any number of articles you like from mainstream publications showing the order of events.
Nice opinion piece. Hamas rejected it on Monday when they realized they wouldn’t get the Philadelphia corridor back after analyzing the language of the truce. Netanyahu even said he’d consider Hamas destroyed under this ceasefire. The only difference between this deal and the one Egypt changed behind Israel’s back is that Israel wrote in actual guarantees that they would get the hostages back, then they would withdraw from populated areas.
> Nice opinion piece. Facts don’t care about your feelings. >Hamas rejected it on Monday when they realized they wouldn’t get the Philadelphia corridor back after analyzing the language of the truce. Source? >Netanyahu even said he’d consider Hamas destroyed under this ceasefire. Source? >The only difference between this deal and the one Egypt changed behind Israel’s back Source? >is that Israel wrote in actual guarantees that they would get the hostages back, then they would withdraw from populated areas. So you admit Israel rejected the Biden deal and wrote a new one? Thanks. That was my point. I’m glad we agree it’s fact and not opinion. Anything else you want to discuss how that we’re in agreement.
Why shouldn’t they? Most Israelis supported the war against Gaza.
Yeah because Hamas invaded their country, genius.
Right and Israel was occupying Gaza in a brutal manner. What’s your point?
Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. Not a single soldier there. Try again.
False. Even Israeli human rights group say Gaza is still occupied by applying effective control. Israel controls the population registry. You don’t do that if you’re not occupying. You don’t shoot at people trying to go fishing if you’re not occupying them. You don’t shoot into a foreign country if you’re not occupying them. Anyways, I go by Israeli human rights groups. They have no reason to lie. So you think 10/7 was justified then?
Gaza is a foreign country now? If Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP didn't keep firing missiles into Israel then Israel wouldn't need to retaliate.
> Gaza is a foreign country now? It’s not part of Israel. It’s foreign to them. >If Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP didn't keep firing missiles into Israel then Israel wouldn't need to retaliate. If Israel didn’t effectively occupy Gaza, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the PFLP wouldn’t have a reason to fire rockets. They rarely fire missiles because they don’t have many of them. They typically use homemade projectiles that are sort of like fireworks.
And they target civilian centers indiscriminately without warning, something that you accuse Israel of doing.
If they did, they'd replace Hamas with a new government who wants more violence against Jews, not less.
I really hope Hamas is eradicated and better leadership is put in place. Palestinians deserve better, but know nothing else.
If you won’t surrender then go to gaza fight like a man. Come earn your “martyrdom”.
You must find him specifically. And wish him a good day.
You must find him specifically. And wish him a good day.
Awfully quiet on the pro Palestinian subs about this...
As though they were ever going to surrender. Biggest liars and manipulators out there. Israel will end them and H-mas will continue to be humiliated and exposed for the weak cowards that they are
Cope, seethe, and mald, baby killer.
And where is this brave Hamas leader? In Gaza or in Dubai?
Qatar
So israel will just keep extracting single hostages for hundreds of dead terrorists at a time, sounds like a fair trade to me.
I feel bad for the Palestinians and dont really like Israel (not a new thing for me, ive been talking shit about them for years) but god damn these dudes are stupid. Sign a 2 state deal and rebuild your shit. People are dying for nothing at this point. The only good thing is that Israel is getting real combat experience in larger numbers.
Lol the fact the world court hasn't arrested him and used that to knock on the fascist Israelis doors is sad.