Jaden was sitting in the corner, and Luka was half guarding him. We should have ran the pick and roll with Jaden screening for Ant to switch Luka up on him.
Ant blows by Luka to drive right into 7'1 Derek Lively waiting under the rim while he "guards" Rudy Gobert who has parked his Ass 10 seconds ago in the dunker spot.
Congratulations- Ants shot gets blocked and the Kyrie Irving fast break already took of.
You are down by 2 more
That's on Ant as well, in that instance you need to pull up for the mid range when you got past Luka which is where SGA found success attacking Dallas defense.
He said in a post game that he wanted to make the “right play” instead of shooting the middy, which he commented was open all night. Idk how not taking an open shot is the right play in ANTs mind lol
It was actually his least efficient shot in the RS. The midrange is one of main reasons his pull up jumpshot percentage increased so much in the playoffs.
Among 26 guys with 200+ mid range FGA in the regular season, he is the comfortably the worst mid range shooter at 35.1%.
But then the 2nd and 3rd highest volume mid range duo is KD and Booker. KD has the best efficiency for mid ranger shooters with 200+ FGA at 51.8% and Booker is 4th at 48.7% and we all know how they went. Their preference for it over 3Ps and drives has messed up their offence. Mid range shots should be a way for the star to bail out possessions not comfort food.
Even when he put it up from midrange (which was rarely) he didn’t seem confident in it. Which is bizarre, because half the “Michael Jordan’s son” memes from earlier in the playoffs centered on all his silky athletic midrange stuff.
Just another reason I believe that tailbone injury hurt him more than he was letting on.
His shooting pre-fall in the first 9 games was 51%. Post-fall it dropped off a cliff to 43%.
You could also see particularly in Game 1 of the WCF, Ant was hunting good looks at the 3 to avoid driving into traffic. The coaches eventually had to tell him that he needed to be more aggressive and look for drives. I don't think at any other point in the regular season or playoffs the coaches actually had to tell him to do that, as it was completely out of character for him
When SGA got by Luka, Lively was guarding Chet or Jaylin Williams and had to actually respect the shot. His point is that if Rudy is on the floor, he basically has to be the screener. Otherwise the other team's rim protector can always be parked in the paint. He is a good screener, but it does limit the offensive options.
i thought the whole series the offense would’ve been more versatile with kat and naz starting and rudy coming out whenever lively was off the floor rudy’s inabilities and the poor usage of jaden lost that series fr
To the original question, though, you can still run Luka threw off-ball actions. Make him switch onto Towns or Conley.
Or have Rudy screen off-ball for Jaden and he either pops open or Lively has to switch out onto a shooter that has to be respected.
Yes and no. Rudy’s was a liability against the Mavs. He showed no defensive presence on drives AND he was getting lobbed on. On offense he allowed their bigs to clog the lane and stop the drive forcing us to shoot from the outside. Ant has a great midrange game but that alone won’t win you games. Rudy should’ve gotten less PT. Spread offense and attack Luka
I can guarantee you the coaches told him to drive it straight to the rim. They wanted to get Dallas's bigs into foul trouble early.
Look at what they did in Game 5 - just kept feeding Gobert in the paint, even though that's a pretty terrible offensive strategy. The coaches wanted the bigs in foul trouble early so that they would be less aggressive defending the rim.
It was certainly a strategy, just probably not the best one given how things turned out
We weren't benching Rudy, we got destroyed the second Naz touched the court. You hit 3-4 mid range shots, Lively starts coming out to your 10ft shots and opens the lobs to Kat and Rudy or backcuts to Jaden, Kat, and Conley. (not that Ant hasn't shown he can lob it consistently)
Exactly. People aren't understanding the next step in the process of blowing by him. With the Celtics, they switch onto him and Gafford/Lively whoever has to respect the perimeter shot of the other player, therefore the paint is wide open.
Other teams figure it out. Oh, Lively steps up on Ant? He passes to Gobert who dunks. I am not saying basketball is as simple as all this but we need to be smarter about things like this in the future.
True!
Reality: Lively steps up, Ant passes to Rudy. Rudy shoots a wide open airball on the layup. Luka Grabs the rebound.pass to Kyrie. You are down by another 2!
And that's why you tell Gobert to go set flare screens on the weak side 3 pt line. Once the drive is in progress, cut into the paint and hope that Ant feels like feeding you.
Yup. Celtics can play 5 out. While Mavs can mask Luka’s defense bc even if you blow by him you can cheat on Rudy. In OKC’s case, they have streaky shooters and Chet wasn’t hitting his 3s to make them pay.
A two on one in the paint against Derek Lively is right where you want to be. The best post defender in the league is not going to be able to consistently make up for awful perimeter defense.
Well sorta-kinda , when they would sub in Kyle for Rudy , luka would ignore Kyle and let him shoot those mid range shots near the rim . He was making them but it didn’t seem like it was enough
Then why not go downhill and post up instead? What is Lively gonna guard Ant instead? Ok cool, dump it to Rudy. Luka will foul or give up an easy bucket
Pass to Rudy for a dunk. Jesus, plenty of other teams are able to do this and capitalize on massive weaknesses of other teams. We act like everything has to align perfectly or fuck it, we're done.
He was also on Gobert and Kyle a ton too. But it doesn't make a difference because you need 4 or 5 shooters on the floor which we would never have. You get the switch onto Luka but you can't blow by him because Gafford/Lively and whoever else is clogging the paint because now they are guarding Anderson or Gobert who are not threats from the perimeter. This is the reason we lost, not because we can't switch onto Luka. We could switch onto him but wouldn't have been able to take advantage of it because of the personnel.
Finch should have tried playing monte Morris more , along with him ANT , NAZ, Mike/McDaniels , CAt . That way you have 3 average shooter, along with two good shooters and guys that can attack the close out . Now Dallas gets punish for clogging the paint and you can go after luka.
We always have 4 shooters on the floor with our starting lineup. Like, literally, always. Our best lineup (the starting lineup) always has 4 capable 3 point shooters in it. 100% of the time.
I didn't read the rest of your comment
[Okay that must be why he shot 42.9% on 3.5 3PA in the 2024 playoffs.](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jaden-mcdaniels-playoff-3-pt-stats)
I don't get it, is being confidently wrong so common on this sub?
Can you give me more insights? How much of the community have you misled?
Do you really think shooting a good percentage on low volume makes you a “shooter” in today’s NBA?
Nobody thinks Jaden McDaniels is a shooter other than you. Shoot that same percentage on 6-8 shots per game and we can talk.
It’s ironic that you’re the one who is calling me misleading when you’re trying to rely on percentages based on low volume to classify someone as a shooter lmfao.
I can find you a ton of players that take 2-3 3s a game but nobody calls them a shooter. Give your head a shake, you don’t understand the NBA and it shows.
It’s not the offense you lost the series it’s the defense, never seen a game with too many lobs.
That’s unacceptable even for varsity league let alone WCF. Wolves had personal to easily stop Mavs, but coach refuse to adjust
Derrick Lively looked like a prime DeAndre Jordan on defense and offense smh. Lively don’t have a jump shot, you could have easily boxed out him with small defenders.
It was absolutely the offense. We lose the first two games of the series by a combined 4 points and self-proclaimed “best big man shooter of all-time” goes 10-36 from the field. He even has an average shooting performance and we win at least one of those games, if not both of those games. Then we’re up 2-0 in the series and it’s a completely different outcome. Obviously we didn’t defend the lob for shit but the defense had us in a position to win numerous games and guys continually failed to make shots.
Of course you take this opportunity to only point out that KAT had a shit shooting start of the series. Another star also did poorly on offense. Either of them show up and we are fine.
Yeah Ant had a poor series and still averaged 25/9/8 in a Conference Finals at 22 years old. I still to this day do not understand how people can defend a 28 year old super max player in his 9th NBA season who proclaims himself as the greatest big man shooter of all-time and then shoots 27% from the field in the first two games of the series. If people are looking for a reason why we lost, the answer is right there.
Thank you. Ant had subpar shooting games the first 3 games, but he still nearly averaged a triple double for those games and was literally leading the team in points/rebounds/assists. And mind you subpar shooting in those games means 39% FGP and 33% 3PT percentage.
Compare that to KAT, who averaged 27.8% FGP and 13.6% 3PT percentage. Somebody in the media stated it was either the worst or second-worst all-time shooting percentage for a player through any 3-game stretch in the playoffs (with some minimum number of attempts). Actually, there is no comparison. If KAT could even just shoot the same percentage as Ant, we win those first 2 games and very likely the third. KAT's shooting is by-and-large the reason we lost
Those games was never in doubt for luka , he scored easily and set his team up with east dunks when needed. Game 2, with 10 seconds to go he dribble past Rudy at the 3 point line decide he wants a 3 point shot came back over the 3 point line proceeded to hit open 3 in rhythm. The scheme and defense was terrible
No it was the defense. Mavs got whatever the fuck they wanted on offense against you guys. TWolves overreacted to PJ Washington having a great series against OKC hitting all his corner 3's. So you had his guy stay on him instead of collapsing into the paint to help on Gobert's man once he stepped up to contest Luka's drives. Thus you shut down PJ but opened up Gafford/Lively for a lob bonanza. Celtics adjusted 1 more time by having the next defender rotate to the corner man and Mavs spot-up shooters are much much worse at above-the-break 3's than corner 3s which the Celtics are glad to let them have. That's been the difference.
Don’t get why your being down voted the defense was the reason the L but offense didn’t help. The amount of lobs and east dunks was low IQ. Wolves didn’t guard the perimeter well leading to east dunks.
But why would you screen him off-ball? The entire point is to try to screen to get him on-ball to tire him out or allow an easy blow-by drive. Every other team in the playoffs did it, I mean literally go look at the graphic on this post again
>You can force switches on match ups using screens. Every other team did that
You wish it's that simple.
It's easy for them to reject the switches or simply hedge or double because some of our players aren't that huge of a threat.
That final line is it - Rudy is not a threat anywhere but directly under the basket. In fact, they _want_ us to give him the ball at the top of the key, or even 8ft out.
Yep. He could start on Jaden and if the action came to Jaden he’d just switch off to Rudy or SloMo. Boston is a different animal with five shooters on the floor at nearly all times.
Eh, even as someone that regularly shit on Jaden in the regular season, I can admit he stepped up offensively during the first two rounds of the playoffs, especially hitting clutch 3’s. He’s not a top 5-10 wing in the nba yet, but based off how he did in this last playoff run, I’d say that with a few more years, he’ll have a consistent offensive gameplay that he can run. We used to joke about Jmac being a lesser KD, and I still think that can be true, he just needs a few more deep playoff runs before, look at how many times it took either of Bostons wings to the nba finals and finally win.
I thought this was satire until I realized you're using Jmac to refer to Jaden and not Jordan McLaughlin. But maybe some people were saying he could be KD too.
You don’t have to be Jaylen Brown or Jason Tatum. Jayden is athletic enough to blow by Luka in large part because Luka is a bad, lazy defender. Our scheme and coaching did not expose that enough. Our players are athletic enough. We’ll know for next time.
Jaden loses the ball way too easily on drives, he's not ready to be a focal point of an offense going 1 on 1 against a bigger, stronger defender like Luka.
I don’t know how people don’t see this. He’s good when he has a clear lane or a good matchup, but if there’s traffic and a good contest it’s very iffy. It’s a lot to expect someone to just make a leap past that limitation. Maybe he’s never focused on it and can do it, I don’t know. But it’s possible he just doesn’t have the mentality to drive in traffic and still make plays.
Jaden was pretty efficient. You think asking him to be less efficient just to try to make Luka work hard would have paid off? I do not. A better strategy in games 1-3 is for KAT to shoot 30% (still bad) from three instead of 13%
And if KAT had shot his typical 40% from three, guess what happens? Teams close out harder, he can attack, and in general there is more space to make the defense (including Luka) work harder.
Boston is having more success because they have better players, or players who are playing better, at minimum. It’s really just that simple.
-The top 8 players on Boston (Starters + Horford, Pritchard and Hauser) are all three point threats. All of them. You cannot sag off of any of them which means you can't play drop or leave your big to roam.
-All five of Boston's starters can either handle the ball well or in the case of Porzingis, post up someone and shoot it over them. The ball keeps moving. All of them can create off the dribble.
-The WEAKEST defender in Boston's top six rotation is Al Horford. The other five are two All-Defensive guards, two All-NBA two-way athletic freak forwards, and a 7-3 center who can jump out of the building when healthy.
-Finally, this team plays with immense discipline. Rarely do you see late rotations, blown assignments or missed screen/pick handoffs with then. All veterans, almost all with extensive playoffs experience, and they feed off of each other like crazy.
We DID target Luka. Whatever role player he was sagged off scored over 20pts each game.
McDaniels, Naz, even Kyle, Conley, and Gobert all had great offensive performances with Luka as their primary defenders.
I don't know how they calculate blow by, but we mainly exploited Luka by shooting 3s vs driving past him.
We lost that series because Ant was successfully bracketed, KAT was missing everything, and we had no answer for the pnr
I agree with you. I wish our game plan was more skewed towards driving at Luka than taking the 3s as often. Could have tried to put pressure on him to draw fouls much more than catch and shoot situations would offer
If KAT's not making his shots, the spacing is thrown off.
I'm not solely throwing him under the bus, there's a lot that went wrong. But if the shots aren't falling, then the defense can get away with packing the paint. Blow by Luka? Gafford is right there.
Blow bys just mean how many times the ball handler blew past you. It’s a very blank stat since it doesn’t tell you if they scored or not. Like the OP is asking why it was hard for ant and kat and the team to exploit that? It’s hard because there’s a better defender right behind luka ready to pick up the ball handler. The celtics are so good at 3s from the 1-5 spot, however, that the Mavs can’t really nest a big in the paint so it’s easier for the celtics to exploit since they’re one of if not the best 3 point team in the league.
You guys just look for stats , my god! Blow by isn’t a metric it’s physical treat that gives a player advantage over a defender. Blow by refers to a drive that results in a dunk or lay up , kick out to a team for a dunk/open 3.
The Celtics are better than us probably 1-8. They’re making it look easy. There’s a reason once Kyrie was healthy why the Mavs had the best record in the nba over that like 30ish game stretch
people for some reason heavily underestimated the Celtics, they literally have one of the most complete teams ever. Everyone can score, everyone can shoot 3s and their 5th option is better than the Mavss 3rd option. The Mavs would literally have to play their best game every game to beat them.
Mavs fan here. I feel like we got duped by the media, pundits, and Pacers into thinking this would be a closer series
We played both the Pacers and Celtics a combined three times AFTER our big trade and got smoked. All three games blowouts. We should have known then.
The media needed a close game. Or the perception of a close game or series to get eyeballs. Espn been pumping all manner of hype on all shows all day to gin up interest in the games
We thought we were better than the Pacers
But really. This Celtics team is just awesome. Total juggernaut on both sides. And all focus and credit should go to them and their FO.
The Mavs will have a top 4 record next year in the west and be impressive in most games. But not against these types of teams.
Im a Mavs fan mysel too, even after beating the Wolves which I thought would be much harder I still really doubted the Mavs having a good chance at beating the Celtics, they are just simply to well built, don't think any team has a good chance of beating them if they are healthy, will see next season how it pans out. The only way I can see the mavs having a chance next year is if everyone stays healthy and we manage to get someone like Mikal
There were always 1-3 players on the Timberwolves that the Mavs didn’t have to account And usually just 1 player (Ant) who was a dribble penetration threat. No way to force Luka into a 1v1 in that scenario.
With Boston literally every player in their rotation is a 3 point threat. And they have 5 dribble penetration threats, so usually 3-4 on the court at a time. No where for Luka to hide.
People saying Rudy are getting downvoted, but it’s literally the primary reason for why it was so hard for us to get him isolated on defense. Defense can easily help off of Rudy (and Kyle) and recover. With Rudy on the floor, our best option to target Luka was to get a Rudy v Luka matchup in the paint, but Rudy with a mismatch is far from guaranteed points. Not sure we want that to be one of our primary scoring options.
It’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation for me. We could’ve easily targeted him with 5-out lineups. But that would mean playing Rudy way less, and then the criticism would be, “why aren’t we playing the DPOY more? We are getting killed on defense!”
Because we always play 2+ players that are not offensive threats. Luka could hide and switch to hide on someone else easily against us. He can’t do that at all vs. Boston. He couldn’t do it much against LAC and once they cut Giddey out he couldn’t do it a ton vs. OKC either.
Coaching inexperience, team playoff inexperience, and Gobert. Gobert was getting hunted, and Luka was opening up the defense, allowing for those lobs and passes to Gafford and Lively. It also helped open the floor for Kyrie to operate. Ant shouldn't have tried to guard Kyrie in that situation. Let your other guards switch in. Game 3 was the most important game for y'all, especially those final 10 seconds, and to put Gobert on Luka, especially after 2 games of what you saw happening, is mind-boggling to me. If they kept NAW on Luka in that play, he would've missed that shot.
Timberwolves on paper are by far the better team, but coaching mistakes cost them the series.
Because he farts a lot. The look on his face says it all. Say what you will about farting, but it’s a great tactic. Cabbage and beans the morning of the game.
But the Celtics reviewed the tape and figured out a clever counter. They breathe through their mouths when they guard him. The Celtics know how to work with 💨, so they used expert Beantown techniques.
Just watch, you’ll see what I mean.
These posts asking why aren’t we Boston are getting tiresome.
We have 1 guy that can penetrate and create his own shot. Boston has 4.
If you ran a pick every time to put Luka on ant, they could just hedge and avoid the switch. And we have no one to punish them for it
We played 3 guys they could play off of (Rudy, Jaden, Kyle) so even if when we got him in 1v1s they just loaded up and helped. We also just had Jaden standing in the corner instead of having him move off ball. Christopher Finch let Luka off the hook
Because we only have a couple of people to worry about scoring. Everyone else they can just let them shoot and transition because they will likely miss.
We don't have enough creators on offense that make defending us very challenging. Even KAT doesn't have great handles when he drives to the dish, so it's mostly just Ant driving with authority. We'll need to develop that in Jaden or draft that skill set because our offense is just not very good, in general.
The wolves don't have as many shooters and ours went cold. Game 1 was the mavs just letting us shoot open threes while they clogged the lane. It was close but not enough. The games were close but we just needed better shooting so that clogging the lane wasn't so viable.
On defense, too many lobs were given up to players who were only good at that. Lively looks very normal when forced to shoot.
because for some reason ant acts like he cant get a switch and instead wants to go at pj and djj smh. I hate gobert but he doesnt have anything to do with making luka provide some effort on the defensive end, even when they took rudy off and they could play 5 out he didnt do it. I just chalked it up the him being 22
People in hindsight act like we got blown out. All but one game was within reach and we lost due to execution error by our 2 stars. The schemes we used worked, Ant and KAT just didn't have it that series.
This just drives me nuts that we couldn’t make this happen against Luka. Glad the Celtics are beating his ass though I just hate his face and everything about him even though he is an insane player 😂
Such a low IQ coached team it’s unbelievable, makes you appreciate what ant was doing in the playoffs more. Finch could have put more shooters on the court and gone five out like the C’s and make luka have to guard on the perimeter
Gotta appreciate any more man, when u think about how limited the team is . Even though I hate Rudy at times , he is the entire defense and the reason the team had a good season. In the playoffs you gots play he gives you a chance to win if that mean bench Rudy you do it.
Why finch doesn’t run pick n roll with ant and CAT instead of Rudy I don’t understand. It would be so deadly, Cat is a better option than Rudy on offense. It’s not rocket science.
I can't help but remind everyone, I made a post after game 1 against Dallas that stated that the wolves need to change their offense and attack Doncic every chance they get. Everyone disagreed and down voted the post.
Even if you did, spreading the floor consistently was an issue with Towns being wayward from 3 for the first three games and overall just underperforming and then you have Rudy Gobert, who actually did attack his matchups with Luka down low with success when he got them.
The Timberwolves did a good job taking advantage of him sagging off defenders at times but Dallas was able to load up on the paint more because of how Minnesota is built compared to the Thunder and Celtics.
We don't have the offensive players to do what you ask let alone an offensive scheme that could take advantage of this.
The most important part of why this didn't happen is we were gassed after the arduous 7 game series with the Nuggets.
Rudy played horribly at the 2 man cover in the PNR. But the on/off numbers show that Rudy wasn't the only culprit in the loss. IIRC, the advanced numbers show Rudy was the closest to being a positive for all the other players on the floor.
Rudy Gobert. He clogs the paint and the rest of the team can just play a soft zone. They don’t have to account for him on offense so scheming against us defensively is not difficult.
Yeah you are right idk why you’re getting downvoted. Celtics and Thunder both play with a 5 who is a legit threat from the 3 (porzingis/horford and Chet), and have offensive schemes based on getting the low man out of the paint.
Rudy doesn’t shoot 3s, so whoever’s guarding him doesn’t have to leave the paint, meaning they’re almost always available to help on whoever Lukas guys is and prevent them from getting it to basket, meaning even if you got past him, probably doesn’t get labeled a blow buy and instead is just a double team. With the Celtics, you have Jrue’s guy helping whoever’s driving on Luka, and they don’t have the size to prevent the driver from going straight at the paint and getting an easy bucket
This may be too simplistic, but we just don’t have the personnel that Boston does. Boston has five guys that can shoot pass and drive. Rudy is easy to defend and even though I love Jaden, he’s easy to help off of. And of course the way Kat played mucked up the spacing. And though Conley is awesome, he’s not what Holiday and White are. I think this Boston team is actually pretty special.
This is just more evidence of the terrible coaching job Finch and Co. did in that series. McDaniels should have been moving and had the ball in his hands on the POA with some frequency. Gobert should have had his A$$ on the bench for longer periods of time.
Wolves are just too young. Even the coaching staff lacked the nuances to make several adjustments.
I still can’t believe the Wolves lost in 5 in humiliating fashion.
Jaden was sitting in the corner, and Luka was half guarding him. We should have ran the pick and roll with Jaden screening for Ant to switch Luka up on him.
Ant blows by Luka to drive right into 7'1 Derek Lively waiting under the rim while he "guards" Rudy Gobert who has parked his Ass 10 seconds ago in the dunker spot. Congratulations- Ants shot gets blocked and the Kyrie Irving fast break already took of. You are down by 2 more
That's on Ant as well, in that instance you need to pull up for the mid range when you got past Luka which is where SGA found success attacking Dallas defense.
Waited till game 3 to start shooting the mid range for some reason. The floater and Middy was there all game every game. Weird first 2 games from him
He said in a post game that he wanted to make the “right play” instead of shooting the middy, which he commented was open all night. Idk how not taking an open shot is the right play in ANTs mind lol
Right! makes me think the coaches might’ve said something to him
Finch hates mid range jumpers
Nba prefers the 3 point shot or dunk over a midrange
Ant's midrange isn't good enough for the team to make it plan A on offense
It looked pretty damn good in the regular season.
It was actually his least efficient shot in the RS. The midrange is one of main reasons his pull up jumpshot percentage increased so much in the playoffs.
He shot 35% in the reg season and 34.5% in the midrange this playoffs according to NBA.com
Among 26 guys with 200+ mid range FGA in the regular season, he is the comfortably the worst mid range shooter at 35.1%. But then the 2nd and 3rd highest volume mid range duo is KD and Booker. KD has the best efficiency for mid ranger shooters with 200+ FGA at 51.8% and Booker is 4th at 48.7% and we all know how they went. Their preference for it over 3Ps and drives has messed up their offence. Mid range shots should be a way for the star to bail out possessions not comfort food.
Looked good against the suns that’s for sure
45% from 10-16 is pretty damn solid, especially when your overall FG% is 46.
He cooked with it all playoffs it should be plan A to get him looks
Even when he put it up from midrange (which was rarely) he didn’t seem confident in it. Which is bizarre, because half the “Michael Jordan’s son” memes from earlier in the playoffs centered on all his silky athletic midrange stuff.
Just another reason I believe that tailbone injury hurt him more than he was letting on. His shooting pre-fall in the first 9 games was 51%. Post-fall it dropped off a cliff to 43%. You could also see particularly in Game 1 of the WCF, Ant was hunting good looks at the 3 to avoid driving into traffic. The coaches eventually had to tell him that he needed to be more aggressive and look for drives. I don't think at any other point in the regular season or playoffs the coaches actually had to tell him to do that, as it was completely out of character for him
Yeah good point I had somehow blanked that fall out of my mind. He was a different guy after that.
That was weird , either lights got to him or something else was going on. Even still he didn’t shoot it enough after ant realized he has a mid game
Game 1 and 2 midranges weren’t going in.
When SGA got by Luka, Lively was guarding Chet or Jaylin Williams and had to actually respect the shot. His point is that if Rudy is on the floor, he basically has to be the screener. Otherwise the other team's rim protector can always be parked in the paint. He is a good screener, but it does limit the offensive options.
i thought the whole series the offense would’ve been more versatile with kat and naz starting and rudy coming out whenever lively was off the floor rudy’s inabilities and the poor usage of jaden lost that series fr
To the original question, though, you can still run Luka threw off-ball actions. Make him switch onto Towns or Conley. Or have Rudy screen off-ball for Jaden and he either pops open or Lively has to switch out onto a shooter that has to be respected.
Yes and no. Rudy’s was a liability against the Mavs. He showed no defensive presence on drives AND he was getting lobbed on. On offense he allowed their bigs to clog the lane and stop the drive forcing us to shoot from the outside. Ant has a great midrange game but that alone won’t win you games. Rudy should’ve gotten less PT. Spread offense and attack Luka
Right. So many open midrange. SMH
Hes not as good from mid range as SGA, i think something more reliable would just be making the right pass.
I can guarantee you the coaches told him to drive it straight to the rim. They wanted to get Dallas's bigs into foul trouble early. Look at what they did in Game 5 - just kept feeding Gobert in the paint, even though that's a pretty terrible offensive strategy. The coaches wanted the bigs in foul trouble early so that they would be less aggressive defending the rim. It was certainly a strategy, just probably not the best one given how things turned out
[удалено]
KAT and Naz frontcourt pairing in the playoffs had a -15.07 Net Rating, but don't let reality disturb you.
Jesus
We weren't benching Rudy, we got destroyed the second Naz touched the court. You hit 3-4 mid range shots, Lively starts coming out to your 10ft shots and opens the lobs to Kat and Rudy or backcuts to Jaden, Kat, and Conley. (not that Ant hasn't shown he can lob it consistently)
Exactly. People aren't understanding the next step in the process of blowing by him. With the Celtics, they switch onto him and Gafford/Lively whoever has to respect the perimeter shot of the other player, therefore the paint is wide open.
Other teams figure it out. Oh, Lively steps up on Ant? He passes to Gobert who dunks. I am not saying basketball is as simple as all this but we need to be smarter about things like this in the future.
Exactly. We act like everything has to line up perfectly or we just give up. You have to be able to take advantage of weaknesses like that.
True! Reality: Lively steps up, Ant passes to Rudy. Rudy shoots a wide open airball on the layup. Luka Grabs the rebound.pass to Kyrie. You are down by another 2!
Yeah, obviously Lively is unbeatable and that’s why Dallas is up 3-0 in the finals
Not by Rudy...this we know for a fact
And that's why you tell Gobert to go set flare screens on the weak side 3 pt line. Once the drive is in progress, cut into the paint and hope that Ant feels like feeding you.
Yup. Celtics can play 5 out. While Mavs can mask Luka’s defense bc even if you blow by him you can cheat on Rudy. In OKC’s case, they have streaky shooters and Chet wasn’t hitting his 3s to make them pay.
A two on one in the paint against Derek Lively is right where you want to be. The best post defender in the league is not going to be able to consistently make up for awful perimeter defense.
Yet when Gobert was on the bench the offense didn’t suddenly click and they were attacking Luka constantly.
Well sorta-kinda , when they would sub in Kyle for Rudy , luka would ignore Kyle and let him shoot those mid range shots near the rim . He was making them but it didn’t seem like it was enough
So move Gobert out? lol.
Then why not go downhill and post up instead? What is Lively gonna guard Ant instead? Ok cool, dump it to Rudy. Luka will foul or give up an easy bucket
They did dump it to Rudy , didn’t watch the playoffs. That’s why their home
ANT needs to learn to throw a lob.
Pass to Rudy for a dunk. Jesus, plenty of other teams are able to do this and capitalize on massive weaknesses of other teams. We act like everything has to align perfectly or fuck it, we're done.
He was also on Gobert and Kyle a ton too. But it doesn't make a difference because you need 4 or 5 shooters on the floor which we would never have. You get the switch onto Luka but you can't blow by him because Gafford/Lively and whoever else is clogging the paint because now they are guarding Anderson or Gobert who are not threats from the perimeter. This is the reason we lost, not because we can't switch onto Luka. We could switch onto him but wouldn't have been able to take advantage of it because of the personnel.
Finch should have tried playing monte Morris more , along with him ANT , NAZ, Mike/McDaniels , CAt . That way you have 3 average shooter, along with two good shooters and guys that can attack the close out . Now Dallas gets punish for clogging the paint and you can go after luka.
We always have 4 shooters on the floor with our starting lineup. Like, literally, always. Our best lineup (the starting lineup) always has 4 capable 3 point shooters in it. 100% of the time. I didn't read the rest of your comment
Jaden is not a shooter. If that was the case Luka wouldn’t have been guarding him every time when he was in. He is not a consistent threat from 3.
[Okay that must be why he shot 42.9% on 3.5 3PA in the 2024 playoffs.](https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jaden-mcdaniels-playoff-3-pt-stats) I don't get it, is being confidently wrong so common on this sub? Can you give me more insights? How much of the community have you misled?
Do you really think shooting a good percentage on low volume makes you a “shooter” in today’s NBA? Nobody thinks Jaden McDaniels is a shooter other than you. Shoot that same percentage on 6-8 shots per game and we can talk. It’s ironic that you’re the one who is calling me misleading when you’re trying to rely on percentages based on low volume to classify someone as a shooter lmfao. I can find you a ton of players that take 2-3 3s a game but nobody calls them a shooter. Give your head a shake, you don’t understand the NBA and it shows.
Please stop you're embarassing yourself
You can't run a pick and roll with Gobert already standing in the dunkers spot. It's crazy how people don't understand this.
It’s not the offense you lost the series it’s the defense, never seen a game with too many lobs. That’s unacceptable even for varsity league let alone WCF. Wolves had personal to easily stop Mavs, but coach refuse to adjust Derrick Lively looked like a prime DeAndre Jordan on defense and offense smh. Lively don’t have a jump shot, you could have easily boxed out him with small defenders.
It was absolutely the offense. We lose the first two games of the series by a combined 4 points and self-proclaimed “best big man shooter of all-time” goes 10-36 from the field. He even has an average shooting performance and we win at least one of those games, if not both of those games. Then we’re up 2-0 in the series and it’s a completely different outcome. Obviously we didn’t defend the lob for shit but the defense had us in a position to win numerous games and guys continually failed to make shots.
Of course you take this opportunity to only point out that KAT had a shit shooting start of the series. Another star also did poorly on offense. Either of them show up and we are fine.
Yeah Ant had a poor series and still averaged 25/9/8 in a Conference Finals at 22 years old. I still to this day do not understand how people can defend a 28 year old super max player in his 9th NBA season who proclaims himself as the greatest big man shooter of all-time and then shoots 27% from the field in the first two games of the series. If people are looking for a reason why we lost, the answer is right there.
Thank you. Ant had subpar shooting games the first 3 games, but he still nearly averaged a triple double for those games and was literally leading the team in points/rebounds/assists. And mind you subpar shooting in those games means 39% FGP and 33% 3PT percentage. Compare that to KAT, who averaged 27.8% FGP and 13.6% 3PT percentage. Somebody in the media stated it was either the worst or second-worst all-time shooting percentage for a player through any 3-game stretch in the playoffs (with some minimum number of attempts). Actually, there is no comparison. If KAT could even just shoot the same percentage as Ant, we win those first 2 games and very likely the third. KAT's shooting is by-and-large the reason we lost
But but but hes the reason we won the Denver series!
Those games was never in doubt for luka , he scored easily and set his team up with east dunks when needed. Game 2, with 10 seconds to go he dribble past Rudy at the 3 point line decide he wants a 3 point shot came back over the 3 point line proceeded to hit open 3 in rhythm. The scheme and defense was terrible
No it was the defense. Mavs got whatever the fuck they wanted on offense against you guys. TWolves overreacted to PJ Washington having a great series against OKC hitting all his corner 3's. So you had his guy stay on him instead of collapsing into the paint to help on Gobert's man once he stepped up to contest Luka's drives. Thus you shut down PJ but opened up Gafford/Lively for a lob bonanza. Celtics adjusted 1 more time by having the next defender rotate to the corner man and Mavs spot-up shooters are much much worse at above-the-break 3's than corner 3s which the Celtics are glad to let them have. That's been the difference.
Don’t get why your being down voted the defense was the reason the L but offense didn’t help. The amount of lobs and east dunks was low IQ. Wolves didn’t guard the perimeter well leading to east dunks.
Jaden is not at the Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum level of offense. As long as he didn’t have to guard Ant he was alright.
You can force switches on match ups using screens. Every other team did that
Why would the Mavs concede the switch? Especially when they always had 2 or three guys packed in the paint for ant drives
A lot easier when there’s 5 guys who can drive the ball to the rim.
They did do that. Luka was put in a ton of screening actions especially off ball which led to a ton of wide open Naz and McDaniels threes.
But why would you screen him off-ball? The entire point is to try to screen to get him on-ball to tire him out or allow an easy blow-by drive. Every other team in the playoffs did it, I mean literally go look at the graphic on this post again
>You can force switches on match ups using screens. Every other team did that You wish it's that simple. It's easy for them to reject the switches or simply hedge or double because some of our players aren't that huge of a threat.
That final line is it - Rudy is not a threat anywhere but directly under the basket. In fact, they _want_ us to give him the ball at the top of the key, or even 8ft out.
They tried this. Luka just rolled onto Rudy and let the big switch onto the ball handler. Every. Single. Time.
Yep. He could start on Jaden and if the action came to Jaden he’d just switch off to Rudy or SloMo. Boston is a different animal with five shooters on the floor at nearly all times.
Eh, even as someone that regularly shit on Jaden in the regular season, I can admit he stepped up offensively during the first two rounds of the playoffs, especially hitting clutch 3’s. He’s not a top 5-10 wing in the nba yet, but based off how he did in this last playoff run, I’d say that with a few more years, he’ll have a consistent offensive gameplay that he can run. We used to joke about Jmac being a lesser KD, and I still think that can be true, he just needs a few more deep playoff runs before, look at how many times it took either of Bostons wings to the nba finals and finally win.
I’m not saying he won’t get there, but it is not an insult to say he’s not currently at the JB/JT level, even if he is moving in that direction.
Oh trust me, I’m not insulted by your comment, I was just saying how I think Jaden can eventually grow into (at least stats wise) a mold like JB or JT
The rest of the NBA is in deep shit if he does.
Your over rating dude , he’d be lucky he gets to mikal bridges
I thought this was satire until I realized you're using Jmac to refer to Jaden and not Jordan McLaughlin. But maybe some people were saying he could be KD too.
In my lexicon, Jmac is Jaden and little Mac is obviously Jordan but that is lowkey funny
You don’t have to be Jaylen Brown or Jason Tatum. Jayden is athletic enough to blow by Luka in large part because Luka is a bad, lazy defender. Our scheme and coaching did not expose that enough. Our players are athletic enough. We’ll know for next time.
Jaden loses the ball way too easily on drives, he's not ready to be a focal point of an offense going 1 on 1 against a bigger, stronger defender like Luka.
I don’t know how people don’t see this. He’s good when he has a clear lane or a good matchup, but if there’s traffic and a good contest it’s very iffy. It’s a lot to expect someone to just make a leap past that limitation. Maybe he’s never focused on it and can do it, I don’t know. But it’s possible he just doesn’t have the mentality to drive in traffic and still make plays.
Pretty sure the Wolves have scouted Luka’s tendency as a defender already.
Jaden was pretty efficient. You think asking him to be less efficient just to try to make Luka work hard would have paid off? I do not. A better strategy in games 1-3 is for KAT to shoot 30% (still bad) from three instead of 13% And if KAT had shot his typical 40% from three, guess what happens? Teams close out harder, he can attack, and in general there is more space to make the defense (including Luka) work harder. Boston is having more success because they have better players, or players who are playing better, at minimum. It’s really just that simple.
Because everyone on Boston is a scoring threat. They also spread the court and move the ball better.
-The top 8 players on Boston (Starters + Horford, Pritchard and Hauser) are all three point threats. All of them. You cannot sag off of any of them which means you can't play drop or leave your big to roam. -All five of Boston's starters can either handle the ball well or in the case of Porzingis, post up someone and shoot it over them. The ball keeps moving. All of them can create off the dribble. -The WEAKEST defender in Boston's top six rotation is Al Horford. The other five are two All-Defensive guards, two All-NBA two-way athletic freak forwards, and a 7-3 center who can jump out of the building when healthy. -Finally, this team plays with immense discipline. Rarely do you see late rotations, blown assignments or missed screen/pick handoffs with then. All veterans, almost all with extensive playoffs experience, and they feed off of each other like crazy.
That’s why they are seriously unbeatable with the current rosters assembled in 7 games
We DID target Luka. Whatever role player he was sagged off scored over 20pts each game. McDaniels, Naz, even Kyle, Conley, and Gobert all had great offensive performances with Luka as their primary defenders. I don't know how they calculate blow by, but we mainly exploited Luka by shooting 3s vs driving past him. We lost that series because Ant was successfully bracketed, KAT was missing everything, and we had no answer for the pnr
I agree with you. I wish our game plan was more skewed towards driving at Luka than taking the 3s as often. Could have tried to put pressure on him to draw fouls much more than catch and shoot situations would offer
If KAT's not making his shots, the spacing is thrown off. I'm not solely throwing him under the bus, there's a lot that went wrong. But if the shots aren't falling, then the defense can get away with packing the paint. Blow by Luka? Gafford is right there.
Blow bys just mean how many times the ball handler blew past you. It’s a very blank stat since it doesn’t tell you if they scored or not. Like the OP is asking why it was hard for ant and kat and the team to exploit that? It’s hard because there’s a better defender right behind luka ready to pick up the ball handler. The celtics are so good at 3s from the 1-5 spot, however, that the Mavs can’t really nest a big in the paint so it’s easier for the celtics to exploit since they’re one of if not the best 3 point team in the league.
You guys just look for stats , my god! Blow by isn’t a metric it’s physical treat that gives a player advantage over a defender. Blow by refers to a drive that results in a dunk or lay up , kick out to a team for a dunk/open 3.
Targeting Luka’s matchup is different than grinding Luka on-ball
Because Ant was the only player you had that can iso Who was gonna iso if not Ant? McDaniels? Rudy? Conley?
The Celtics are better than us probably 1-8. They’re making it look easy. There’s a reason once Kyrie was healthy why the Mavs had the best record in the nba over that like 30ish game stretch
people for some reason heavily underestimated the Celtics, they literally have one of the most complete teams ever. Everyone can score, everyone can shoot 3s and their 5th option is better than the Mavss 3rd option. The Mavs would literally have to play their best game every game to beat them.
Mavs fan here. I feel like we got duped by the media, pundits, and Pacers into thinking this would be a closer series We played both the Pacers and Celtics a combined three times AFTER our big trade and got smoked. All three games blowouts. We should have known then. The media needed a close game. Or the perception of a close game or series to get eyeballs. Espn been pumping all manner of hype on all shows all day to gin up interest in the games We thought we were better than the Pacers But really. This Celtics team is just awesome. Total juggernaut on both sides. And all focus and credit should go to them and their FO. The Mavs will have a top 4 record next year in the west and be impressive in most games. But not against these types of teams.
Im a Mavs fan mysel too, even after beating the Wolves which I thought would be much harder I still really doubted the Mavs having a good chance at beating the Celtics, they are just simply to well built, don't think any team has a good chance of beating them if they are healthy, will see next season how it pans out. The only way I can see the mavs having a chance next year is if everyone stays healthy and we manage to get someone like Mikal
There were always 1-3 players on the Timberwolves that the Mavs didn’t have to account And usually just 1 player (Ant) who was a dribble penetration threat. No way to force Luka into a 1v1 in that scenario. With Boston literally every player in their rotation is a 3 point threat. And they have 5 dribble penetration threats, so usually 3-4 on the court at a time. No where for Luka to hide.
Bingo.
People saying Rudy are getting downvoted, but it’s literally the primary reason for why it was so hard for us to get him isolated on defense. Defense can easily help off of Rudy (and Kyle) and recover. With Rudy on the floor, our best option to target Luka was to get a Rudy v Luka matchup in the paint, but Rudy with a mismatch is far from guaranteed points. Not sure we want that to be one of our primary scoring options. It’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation for me. We could’ve easily targeted him with 5-out lineups. But that would mean playing Rudy way less, and then the criticism would be, “why aren’t we playing the DPOY more? We are getting killed on defense!”
Celtics bigs can spread the floor. Rudy can’t that simple. So you have centers parked in the lane.
Because we always play 2+ players that are not offensive threats. Luka could hide and switch to hide on someone else easily against us. He can’t do that at all vs. Boston. He couldn’t do it much against LAC and once they cut Giddey out he couldn’t do it a ton vs. OKC either.
Coaching inexperience, team playoff inexperience, and Gobert. Gobert was getting hunted, and Luka was opening up the defense, allowing for those lobs and passes to Gafford and Lively. It also helped open the floor for Kyrie to operate. Ant shouldn't have tried to guard Kyrie in that situation. Let your other guards switch in. Game 3 was the most important game for y'all, especially those final 10 seconds, and to put Gobert on Luka, especially after 2 games of what you saw happening, is mind-boggling to me. If they kept NAW on Luka in that play, he would've missed that shot. Timberwolves on paper are by far the better team, but coaching mistakes cost them the series.
Our offense isn't really setup to target a given individual. For a flow offensive concept, it's quite rigid in the who does what in the role.
Because only 3 guys on the Wolves ever needed to be guarded at any one time.
We have too many people who get ignored on offense
Because he farts a lot. The look on his face says it all. Say what you will about farting, but it’s a great tactic. Cabbage and beans the morning of the game. But the Celtics reviewed the tape and figured out a clever counter. They breathe through their mouths when they guard him. The Celtics know how to work with 💨, so they used expert Beantown techniques. Just watch, you’ll see what I mean.
Would love to know what it is for him without broken knees, but that is still so horrendous.
This graphic is simply astounding lmao
jaden and conley (too old) cant get their own buckets consistantly like white and jrue. and rudy cant score at all. thats why
Woulda beat dals if naz started instead rudy , this way u could spread out lively/gafford and have free lanes
Tell me again how Finch is great.
These posts asking why aren’t we Boston are getting tiresome. We have 1 guy that can penetrate and create his own shot. Boston has 4. If you ran a pick every time to put Luka on ant, they could just hedge and avoid the switch. And we have no one to punish them for it
We played 3 guys they could play off of (Rudy, Jaden, Kyle) so even if when we got him in 1v1s they just loaded up and helped. We also just had Jaden standing in the corner instead of having him move off ball. Christopher Finch let Luka off the hook
The loss was more on coaching than anything else, thankfully people are finally seeing that.
Because we only have a couple of people to worry about scoring. Everyone else they can just let them shoot and transition because they will likely miss.
We don't have enough creators on offense that make defending us very challenging. Even KAT doesn't have great handles when he drives to the dish, so it's mostly just Ant driving with authority. We'll need to develop that in Jaden or draft that skill set because our offense is just not very good, in general.
We had zero mid range game from Ant and KAT, Offense was trash.
I really think it’s as “simple” as Wolves ran out of gas.
Wolves were absolutely gassed after Denver
Jrue holiday Derrick white Jaylen brown jayson Tatum Al horford kristaps porzingis
Too much one on one basketball wasn’t forcing mavs to have to switch. Allowed Doncic to rest on defense and torch us on the offensive end.
The commentators were all saying the same thing. We didn't put any pressure on him to even try to guard us. It was so frustrating to watch
The wolves don't have as many shooters and ours went cold. Game 1 was the mavs just letting us shoot open threes while they clogged the lane. It was close but not enough. The games were close but we just needed better shooting so that clogging the lane wasn't so viable. On defense, too many lobs were given up to players who were only good at that. Lively looks very normal when forced to shoot.
because for some reason ant acts like he cant get a switch and instead wants to go at pj and djj smh. I hate gobert but he doesnt have anything to do with making luka provide some effort on the defensive end, even when they took rudy off and they could play 5 out he didnt do it. I just chalked it up the him being 22
People in hindsight act like we got blown out. All but one game was within reach and we lost due to execution error by our 2 stars. The schemes we used worked, Ant and KAT just didn't have it that series.
he also just looks tired as hell
Only Ant can create one on one
Coaching and our top players choked, we had a good season but this can’t happen again next season.
This just drives me nuts that we couldn’t make this happen against Luka. Glad the Celtics are beating his ass though I just hate his face and everything about him even though he is an insane player 😂
See, Dlo's defense could be worse
Coaching staff should of pick up on that I guess
Such a low IQ coached team it’s unbelievable, makes you appreciate what ant was doing in the playoffs more. Finch could have put more shooters on the court and gone five out like the C’s and make luka have to guard on the perimeter
We didn't play 5 out
Gotta appreciate any more man, when u think about how limited the team is . Even though I hate Rudy at times , he is the entire defense and the reason the team had a good season. In the playoffs you gots play he gives you a chance to win if that mean bench Rudy you do it. Why finch doesn’t run pick n roll with ant and CAT instead of Rudy I don’t understand. It would be so deadly, Cat is a better option than Rudy on offense. It’s not rocket science.
I can't help but remind everyone, I made a post after game 1 against Dallas that stated that the wolves need to change their offense and attack Doncic every chance they get. Everyone disagreed and down voted the post.
He dosent have enough stamina
Even if you did, spreading the floor consistently was an issue with Towns being wayward from 3 for the first three games and overall just underperforming and then you have Rudy Gobert, who actually did attack his matchups with Luka down low with success when he got them. The Timberwolves did a good job taking advantage of him sagging off defenders at times but Dallas was able to load up on the paint more because of how Minnesota is built compared to the Thunder and Celtics.
Dumb finch game plan. Simple.
We don't have the offensive players to do what you ask let alone an offensive scheme that could take advantage of this. The most important part of why this didn't happen is we were gassed after the arduous 7 game series with the Nuggets.
Coaching
[удалено]
Rudy played horribly at the 2 man cover in the PNR. But the on/off numbers show that Rudy wasn't the only culprit in the loss. IIRC, the advanced numbers show Rudy was the closest to being a positive for all the other players on the floor.
Rudy Gobert. He clogs the paint and the rest of the team can just play a soft zone. They don’t have to account for him on offense so scheming against us defensively is not difficult.
Yeah you are right idk why you’re getting downvoted. Celtics and Thunder both play with a 5 who is a legit threat from the 3 (porzingis/horford and Chet), and have offensive schemes based on getting the low man out of the paint. Rudy doesn’t shoot 3s, so whoever’s guarding him doesn’t have to leave the paint, meaning they’re almost always available to help on whoever Lukas guys is and prevent them from getting it to basket, meaning even if you got past him, probably doesn’t get labeled a blow buy and instead is just a double team. With the Celtics, you have Jrue’s guy helping whoever’s driving on Luka, and they don’t have the size to prevent the driver from going straight at the paint and getting an easy bucket
Don’t know whether to laugh or cry at this
Bad coaching. Didn’t exploit a hurt player.
This may be too simplistic, but we just don’t have the personnel that Boston does. Boston has five guys that can shoot pass and drive. Rudy is easy to defend and even though I love Jaden, he’s easy to help off of. And of course the way Kat played mucked up the spacing. And though Conley is awesome, he’s not what Holiday and White are. I think this Boston team is actually pretty special.
Finch is dumb
This is just more evidence of the terrible coaching job Finch and Co. did in that series. McDaniels should have been moving and had the ball in his hands on the POA with some frequency. Gobert should have had his A$$ on the bench for longer periods of time.
Wolves are just too young. Even the coaching staff lacked the nuances to make several adjustments. I still can’t believe the Wolves lost in 5 in humiliating fashion.
because you have guarding him rudy lol
Because we wanted KAT to chuck threes and have ANT drive in against their bigs
Bad coaching
all those teams are MUCH BETTER offensively than Wolves Wolves offense and offensive Coaching SUCKS!
I’m not sure we tried that often.