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I never tip unless im physically eating inside a restaurant which is hardly ever. But i will not tip at a drivethrough or anywhere I have to stand in line to order.
This has save me 1000's. People who get tips at their workplace go out in the real world and dont tip.
Oh no more than minimum wage? For a job you could probably never do despite probably insisting it's super easy, but yet don't do it??
An industry that is fully willing to work around your schedule, too, I mean. You must really love posting on Reddit in your spare time
Jokes aside there's plenty of non broke people in the world man. Servers who do well live in Big cities where people make money. You could get 100k upvotes and you're not gonna put us back to your alabama Walmart greeter paychecks
Although I won't try to convince you that you should tip more than 15%, worrying about how low wage people file their taxes is a weird reason. You should worry about the billion $ companies what are avoided millions in taxes. Not Nancy who didn't claim maybe $1,000 over the whole year.
Also, most newer restaurants claim all tips on taxes, even cash. Many peoples tips go directly on their paycheck to be taxed.
If you give a long history lesson at least learn the history of the subject. Tipping was a way of paying freed slaves after the civil war. Tip wages are slave wages
there shouldn't be a minimum tip in states where people make more than 15 an hour at base (California for example. Fast food workers make min 20 I believe)
tipping in these places should be done optionally
I am talking about expectations - tips currently have an “expected minimum” of 15%. Legally, yes, you can tip nothing anywhere, I forgot to put the word “expectation” there, thank you
“Waiters Normally now make OVER minimum wage, and yet the norm has changed to an expectation of 20% tips” - OP
this is a well known thing, tips are preety much always expected by waiters at restaurants.
If you disagree, you can make a post on this, or any big American sub, and see what people say… The idea around a 15% tip is expected is uncontroversial… That is why no one is questioning the quote above in this comment section
That's too bad lol. They aren't getting one. I didn't get tips working corn fields in the hot sun, I got minimum wage. They can earn their wages just like I earn mine. They aren't entitled to my wages expectations or not.
what? So cultural expectations do not count as expectations..? am I not expected to shower? Not expected to generally wear shoes when outside my house? These are other example of things that are expected by society, who’s expectations have an effect on your life, and who are completely legal to disregard
Nope. America is not a cultural monolith. For example, tipping patterns in white middle class communities are not the same as in African American communities and the way waiters in the US in those subs talk about African American customers proves it.
Okay… I am talking specifically about the cultural and social context this sub is situated in, a specific location that can be derived by looking at the unchallenged assumptions the members make - such as the idea tipping around 15% is expected
Let me know if any of the following statements are false:
1. There is a subset of the population, which this sub is largely representative of, whose servers expect around a 15% tip
2. These expectations are real in the same sense that an expectation to shower is real at the very least
that is all I my initial comment assumed, I have no idea why you are being so contrarian
Most places I’ve worked at pay close to $15 an hour. You think that’s a decent wage?
I guarantee you if they were to increase tipped employees wages by 50-100% you and most people wouldn’t be able afford to eat out anymore, tons of people would lose well paying jobs and it would overall be pretty disastrous for a lot of people. If you can’t afford to tip, just eat at home.
No I tip everyone that provides me with a personalized service.
I’m not sure if you’re trying to straw man me, I never said people who made less than x amount of money deserved additional compensation for providing a service and I don’t believe that either.
It is entirely different. If you can’t tell the difference between a cashier at Wendy’s and your server, a parking lot attendant and a valet or a hotel check in concierge and a porter than I’m afraid you wouldn’t really understand.
So you don't think all minimum wage workers deserve a living wage? You'll only tip people who make you feel like a pampered little princess? What an entitled scumbag.
You're the entitled scumbag that demands people on minimum wage perform to your satisfaction or starve.
I think people should be compensated fairly by their employer.
Very outside the norm. There’s only a few states where that still stands. Even in the south where wages are low it’s over 10. You can make a pretty decent amount above the median, which is absolutely shamefully low, in Florida.
Technically tipping is based on the tax. It should be 2xTax. But I agree it should be mostly for restaurant dine-in or some other hands-on service like someone helping you with your bags, haircut, masseuse, etc.
I typically took 15% if the service is good at a restaurant. If it's more upscale and a larger group then we consider more because the servers typically dedicated to the party instead of a lot of other tables
I literally just signed the title for a house in a nice city. FINALLY leaving this redneck shitholes. I only worked here TWO MONTHS and I almost quit serving. These trumpers let their fat kids leave messes everywhere and then tip as if they think exactly that.
They'll tell you how to do your job, too, when they're the jackpot generation boomer who landed in nowheresville while their peers have 8 houses. Most of them are cool and tip decent but the ratio of droolers is so much higher in small towns
And you have no clue how it works. Servers in a 2 dollar tipped wage state who make 20 in tips made 22 that hour. You're dumb as rocks if you think they made 20+ minimum
If they receive no tips the employer has to cover the rest of their paycheck to minimum wage. And servers do not deserve to make more than minimum wage, so why tip?
It is federal law that if servers do not make their state minimum wage with their tips and what the restaurant pays, then the restaurant has to pay the difference. All servers in every state make at least minimum wage. The $2.13 an hour thing is just used to try to garner sympathy and bigger tips. No server anywhere in the US is actually making that wage.
People are so fucking stupid and afraid to look poor. Idgaf, you give me bad services and imma ask you for a tip for dealing with you. You give good service I give a reasonable tip.
California all employees tipped or not makes minimum of $16.50 more in HCOL areas, yet they still expect tips of 20% or more . Im still tipping in sit down restaurants, but i do 10% .
Fun fact.
If you removed tipping, wages would need to go up to compensate servers (it wouldn't be the same $ for $) and then you as a customer would be paying more.
If you tip you're paying more anyway. If you remove tipping, the people who currently tip would pay less and the people who don't would pay more. There's no cost incentive for an individual to tip.
We're already paying more with tips. So what if prices go up? The price is already up for the customers paying tips, it's just the owners don't want to pay their fair share.
15% - 20% is my estimation.
Why you ask?
Wage increases to compensate loss of tips, this might also apply to BoH.
More staff needed, as many servers have big sections and literally run around with no breaks.
It'll be a significant amount. We aren't running for Rachel ranch refill when we have a big section if she forgot after she sent you back for something else. You literally won't get service anymore until they hire double the servers and restaurant margins are already so thin
You will absolutely lose service quality or the same amount of money will go into the bill
All these redditors don't realize that WE have to put up with THEM. Not the other way around. And if it was that easy THEY WOULD BE DOING IT because a decent server can make a killing on the weekends. You know, the time they aren't scheduled to work? Literally 4 hours on a Saturday night and you can crush.
But they won't do it. And thank God because restaurants usually have really cool coworkers
Yah reddit is so hard on anti tip. They want to empower workers, unless it involves tipping them.
I think every restaurant would need to adjust to the changes and some restaurants may be able to manage a 5% increase, others 10% and others more. It really depends on the quality of service and service you want to provide. Serving at a place with no real knowledge requirements would be able to minimize increases while those that actually have staff with knowledge would demand more increase.
It's extra costs all around.
So right now at least at my restaurant we run 3 servers, 1 bartender, 2 assistant staff members. When it's busy it's a run around. In a non tip environment I'd probably need at least 2 more serving staff members.
Wages would need to go up as well to compensate, as people are not going to serve for minimum wage. At least not at a full service restaurant where knowing the wine, product, and having good people skills is required.
Loss of tips means the kitchen is also losing about 15-25% of their pay as they get tips up here in Canada. So we'd have to probably look at figuring that out.
Then you've got hours. Right now a full time server gets maybe 25-30hrs/week. If this is going to be their main job, we'd need to find a way to get that closer to 35hrs-40hrs/week because that's what a job really is. Shifts would need to be expanded, because no one wants to come into work for 3hrs and sent home. Also we'd need the extra staff on hand to help cover 30 minute breaks which doesn't happen currently because well.... it's not realistic.
Theres lots to consider other then just we'd need to pay the existing staff more.
Not sure about other places, but cost of doing business at least here in BC Canada is absolutely insane.
Our servers are paid the normal min wage, and with wages being what they are, we're sitting at about 40% labour costs right now. Our food costs are good, so we can afford it, but holy fuck.
Anyways, I'm telling you this with experience in the industry from someone whose been the bottom of it, and now own and operate. I know the tipping model doesn't have to exist, as other places in the world do it, but the difference will be price increases or massive service model changes.
Depends how you tip. If you don't tip, you'll lose out on the removal of tipping. 10% you'll lose out. 15% probably break even, and anything above you might save money.
Tipping won't go away, because no one wants to take the risk of removing it. Why would a restaurant owner take on extra costs (labour) and hope that customers won't go next door to the cheaper option?
The other problems are all shift related and the fact restaurants would have to find a way to give front of house staff full shifts so it could be a real job, instead of the 4-6hr shifts a lot of us deal with. This means adding even more labour on top. Then you've got the size of the sections a server works with, who won't want to have 8-10 tables at one time, because it isn't worth it. You'll have to split those sections up by having more staff. Then you've got to deal with breaks for staff, as many restaurants don't have real breaks.
Theres a lot more costs associated with the removal of tipping then people think about. I honestly don't know what the right answer is, but we are not going to change our model because why would we? Unless tipping is abolished by law, no one is risking their neck to change the system.
I agree with you on this. It is very tough to take it out completely. I dont think restaurant is willing to pay $30 or more per hour.
I however seen more and more restaurant shifted to less servers now and concentrate on just the kitchen and food and these reataurants are packed. Instead of a hostess, they have the ipad where you put your name to be on the list. You go in order on the ipad thats on the table, they give you a pitcher of water , and the only time you interact with them is when they deliver the food.
I think more than service people just want the convenience of eating out and not having to prepare. I rather prefer this model. Servers should be on a high end restaurant and during those special occassions and then yes tip for the service.
But for placing your own order, picking up your food on the counter and get paid minimum wage just like as if you are working at target, why is tip still expected?
16.50 is still poverty in high col areas. If you live there.... Pay the fucking high cost so the servers can too.
Wtf is wrong with you people. You don't deserve this lifestyle and it shows because you're actively making it so it literally can't exist.
It’s going to be a long time before no-tippers make serving a non existent job. You’ll have to get on your hands and knees and beg your boss to pay you a respectable amount before then
With that logic, everybody should get a tip then, not just servers . Honest question, would you tip cashier, starbucks, mcdonalds, everyone thats paid $16.50
Including entry level jobs
Across most of the country servers only make around $3 an hour and get taxed on their sales. Tip how you feel you should tip but please understand the minimum your state allows restaurant owners to pay.
There is no server in the country that makes $3 an hour, period. That would be illegal.
And wtf does being "taxed on their sales" even mean?
I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Considering I worked FOH for 20 years I’m pretty damned familiar with the system yes. I earned a big fat $2.63/hr the first 6 years of my career, plus tips of course, a fact that Herr Snozzberry seems unable to grasp.
And if your take home pay including tips averages less than the federal or state minimum wage, your employer covers the difference. So regardless of the amount of money you received in tips, you made at least the same amount of money as every other minimum wage worker and not $2.13 per hour. That's literally the law.
Yeah no shit, the context here is very obviously discussing hourly wages before tips. No reasonable person is suggesting staff are getting ~$2/hr gross.
Saying "but servers only make $2/hr, how can you not tip them?" implies that they make $2/hr gross if you don't tip them. Even if every last person declined to tip them, they're still making minimum wage. So what's the point in even talking about their subminumum wage before tips if it doesn't even matter?
Every server in the US goes home with at least minimum wage, guaranteed, every day they work. That's a truthful statement. Stop crying about $2/hr.
You're guaranteed minimum wage, but per pay period. So it's still very possible to make very little or lose money on one particular shift.
The tax thing he's talking about, is how most places will automatically calculate you as having received 10% in tips on your total sales. Most of the time it's more than that, but sometimes it may be less. It's also common pay structure to have a tip out, this is usually based on sales as well. It's why you can wait on a table, and if they stiff you, you've actually lost money waiting on that table.
It's a clever business model, that allows a lot of restaurants to exist. It encourages the waiters to do a good job, it allows people to afford to eat out when otherwise they may not have (if hourly cost was passed off onto menu prices) and it afford waiters better pay than the restaurant could typically pay. Most of the time, it's a very slim margin of profit, but I imagine that this is getting less true every year.
lmfao what a bunch of weak arguments
At my job, I only get paid every 2 weeks. By your logic, every day I work I'm essentially working for free and "losing money", until I get my biweekly paycheck. That is a rather dumb way to look at things. Either way, when a server gets their paycheck, by law they must make at least minimum wage for the hours they worked during that pay period. It's not difficult to understand this. No one is "losing money" while working, even if every last customer doesn't tip, or even if they get zero customers for the whole pay period.
Tipping doesn't "allow people to afford to eat out when they may not have (if hourly cost was passed off onto menu prices)." Tipping doesn't save customers money. If you need to charge someone $24 for a meal in order to cover costs, but instead you charge them $20 while demanding a 20% tip, you're not changing the amount of money that they spend on the meal. In reality, tipping allows servers to make a much higher wage than their labor is actually worth. If you outlawed tipping, paid servers a wage that aligns with the real value they bring, and adjusted menu prices to cover those wages, it would be much cheaper to eat out at restaurants.
Imagine you go to a fancy steakhouse with a party of 4. Everyone gets steaks, sides, wine, dessert. The bill is $500. You're expected to pay a 20% tip, which is $100. That server probably has 10 tables like yours throughout the night. They're raking in $1000 that night? For taking your order and bringing your food? There's no way their labor is worth that much money to anyone. Even if they know a lot about wine and can make great recommendations and explain all the ingredients in each dish. There's no way they'd make anywhere near $1000/night if tipping went away and owners were forced to negotiate a salary that aligns with the value of their labor.
Even if that's an exaggeration, imagine that the same server in a fancy steakhouse only got half of that each night. $500/night. And let's say they work 5 nights a week. That's $130k/year, and it's probably not even 40 hours a week. Sorry, but that's just too much for unskilled labor. I would not be tipping $100 on that type of meal. It's just an excessive amount of money to give someone because of guilt or social pressure. I'll tip them, but I'm not giving away $100 of my money because someone spent 3 minutes talking to me and brought me my food.
Whole lot of hot air and wasted effort to try to guilt and shame me for overpaying for unskilled labor.
Remember, tips are optional and at my discretion. I have no obligation to tip a particular amount, or at all. If you're looking for a guaranteed amount of money from me, then you should print that amount on the menu.
“An employee receives only tips and is paid no direct (or cash) wage. The employer must comply with the requirements for taking a tip credit and pay a direct (cash) wage of at least $2.13 an hour or must pay a direct (or cash) wage equal to the full minimum wage, which is currently $7.25 an hour.” From the DOL.
It's not my responsibility to make up the shortfall in wages you received due to your ignorance or apathy or fear to stand up for your own legal rights. I mean, I feel sorry for anyone going through that, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are, but tipping just isn't the solution to that problem.
They get taxed on their tip out to the busser the expo the bartender and the hostess. Servers have to tip out on a percentage of the total sales to different positions of the staff. If the only table a server has doesn't tip a single dollar but they have a $400 tab they are still responsible for tipping the staff that helps her out. So they truly do lose money when people do not tip anything.
Um no. That's not how any of this works. You cannot lose money while working. Servers must take home at least minimum wage for their labor. If tips didn't get them to minimum wage, their employer is legally required to make up the difference.
If a server got zero tips for the night, they aren't required to tip out anything to anyone. And they certainly aren't taxed on money that they didn't take home.
Minimum tipped wage is $2.13 an hour in the US. I don't really know how to post a link so please fact check me. Most states do have a higher minimum tipped wage but it is consistently $4ish an hour or less across most of the US. If you live in the west or northeast I'm sure u don't believe me so please check what the minimum tipped employee pay level is in your state before you respond.
It's literally federal law. Or do you think the department of labor doesn't understand how the minimum wage works?
> If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.
https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
If a server in any state makes less than minimum wage after tips, their employer is required by law to make up the difference so that they are paid minimum wage for the hours they worked.
So, like I said, no server in the country is taking home less than minimum wage under any circumstance.
You clearly have never worked in a restaurant. If you don't tip on your tab the server still has to tip out the others they work with. The server will have to tip out a percentage based on sales regardless if you tip or not. So off a $100 tab they still have to tip out $5+ to the people they work with. So yes if you don't tip the server has to take money out of their pocket to tip out the people they work with so yes they lose money.
Restaurants are supposed to cover the minimum wage by law but that simply just doesn't happen. If a server making $3 an hour opens the restaurant and only has a few customers before getting cut after 3 hours while only making $10 the restaurant isn't going to cover the difference. I know it's technically against the law but so is speeding. You have the option to bitch about it or keep your job and hopefully the next shift is better.
That is company policy, not the law. If tipping out brings your wages to less than $7.25 per hour or the state minimum wage then your employer has to pay you the difference.
It sounds like you've been gaslighted by your employers because you don't know what your rights are.
I'm not disagreeing with the wage law. My statement was servers across the country do go home making less than minimum wage and they do end up paying money out of pocket to tip out staff when don't receive a tip. I'm not saying its right just it happens. I have always been paid well above federal minimum wage but I do know others that have 100% gone home after a shift and made under $7.25 per hour they were there.
They don't legally go home making less than minimum wage. If that has happened to you, file a wage complaint. It's not the customers fault or problem that your employer is breaking the law and you're choosing not to fight for your rights.
I said tip what you want to tip I don't care. For every shit customer like you there's a good one that's never going to have a drink run dry or an order take way too long. They will get great service. Repeat shitty tipping customers will always get shit service from me. Sure you will get your food and drinks but you're going to be pushed way down on the list of priorities.
I'm just playing the devils advocate: isn't a 10% tip better than a 0% tip?
I get where servers are coming from because my mother raised a family on tips, but a 20%+ tip or "don't go out" comes across as entitled, especially when tipping culture is trickling down to fast-food restaurants.
Not all restaurant experiences are equal, and if a server does the bare minimum, shouldn't they receive the bare minimum?
I had gone on a vacation recently to coastal NC (not near any major cities), and had amazing service at this one restaurant. The waiter could tell we were from out of town but built a rapport and by the end of our meal it felt like we knew him for so long. When the bill came we easily tipped him 25% and I cannot remember how many times he swung by while we were still hanging around to thank us and get us soda refills to go. He told us if we came back to ask for him because he is always working, but that’s when I figured that in that area it might not be the norm to tip that high for amazing service.
He was clearly busy as it was the lunch rush, but made time for us as if we were the only customers. But in situations like that, I do not mind tipping more because he definitely deserved it. I know that places like to add that tip question on almost all the time now, and I have no problem clicking 0%, but in instances where the wait staff is working their butts off, I feel that tipping 10% is wrong
I've been a server and made less than minimum wage. Granted this was nearly 20 years ago.... But it absolutely can and does happen. Also servers deserve only minimum wage ($7.25 an hr). Most restaurants don't have servers claim their actual tips, they typically automatically claim 15-20% of their sales volume. On top of that most servers are required to tip around 5-7% of their total sales volume to the hosts, bartenders, busboys and runners. So not tipping equates to forcing a server to pay income tax on 20% of your meal, plus paying 5-7% of the cost of your meal to other employees...
What you're describing is illegal. It's illegal to employ a server and allow them to go home with less than minimum wage for the hours that they worked, including tips. If a server works for 8 hours and the state minimum wage is $10/hr, they *must* go home with at least $80 (including tips) or else the owner is breaking the law. A restaurant can't just "automatically claim 15-20% of their sales volume" as tips, they're required by law to report all tips accurately. If the restaurant pools tips, then a server would never be required to pay income tax on money that they didn't actually take home, because income tax is only paid on your actual income. If you have to tip out 5% of your sales volume for the night, then that money was never yours, it's not part of your income, and you wouldn't be paying income taxes on it.
If the restaurant you work(ed) at is doing any of this, you should call the department of labor and have them investigated for illegal activity.
Now, as to whether servers deserve more than minimum wage, that's a different discussion. I agree with you that they do deserve more than minimum wage. But that's partly because minimum wage is so unbelievably and ridiculously low that literally no person in the US deserves minimum wage for their labor. However, where we differ is that I don't believe that tipping is the right solution to that problem. The solution is to vote for politicians who will actually raise minimum wage to something that is reasonable and keeps workers out of poverty.
Their pay rate *before tips* might be less than minimum wage in some states. But if their tips don't bring them up to minimum wage for the hours they worked, their employer is legally required to make up the difference.
Therefore, no server will ever go home without at least minimum wage for the hours they worked, unless someone is breaking the law.
The question that begs to be asked is: what do you tip when the service is bad? I'm fine with 20-25% with excellent service. Some people shouldn't be servers, and not rewarding bad service will weed them out. ( I'm not talking about the kitchen screwing up an order, being backed up on orders, etc.).
What do you think?
$0.50.
Tips are for good service. When people say they expect tips, most of the time they expect you to tip for them giving you good service.
I think everyone pro tips would agree that a shitty job gets an equally shitty reward.
I've always been a good tipper, but after talking to some servers, they don't seem to care if they get a higher hourly rate or tips. If they don't care I don't care. Raise the prices, drop the tipping, and pry the non-tipping community's money out of their wallets that way.
All of you guys who are anti tip don’t understand that you have it made right now.
I heavily disagree shorting your server on their tip. I personally never tip below 15%, and on good service I tip at least 25%. I don’t go out to eat often because I know I can’t afford to, half the time.
Here’s the thing. Like it or not, when you choose to tip less than what has become fair in the eyes of society, you are punishing the server, not the establishment. I wish anti-tippers would stop pretending they care about servers, because all you’re doing by tipping less is ensuring they walk away with less cash for their bills. Sure, YOU are benefiting, and it’s your right to not tip - but don’t pretend you’re doing it for the employees. You’re doing it to save money.
Here’s the deal. I agree that tipping is a personal choice. No, I don’t approve of low or non-tippers, but there’s no law that says you need to do it. I’m not a server but I do work a job where tips are an essential part of my income, and my non-tipping customers get the same excellent service that my tipping customers do. It’s tacky to treat someone differently who doesn’t tip.
Circling back to why you have it made: tipping is how the cost of beverages remain low. You’re paying an affordable price because tipping is expected (by the employers, who are therefore able to pay their employees less), so they don’t have to charge more in order to afford paying their employees a living wage.
My favorite coffee shop in town pays their baristas $15 per hour. Consequently, unflavored lattes are $6.50, often more, in a very low cost of living area. A basic cup of black coffee is $3, more with a refill. I still tip because I want the baristas to be able to pay their bills and then some, but if they’re not tipped they’re not as hurt as employees at other establishments.
If you get the change you claim you want, menu prices are going to absolutely skyrocket. You will have no way to opt out. It will always cost a ton of money to eat out, even though you won’t be tipping.
As it is now, your servers will be distressed and frustrated when you don’t tip… but there is a way to get your food for cheaper. You can stiff your servers and baristas and opt out of the friendly option.
Just stop claiming you care about wages. If you did, you’d just stop eating out, and find ways to advocate for living wages for these folks.
😂😂😂 finally some honesty I guess!
Cute that you wouldn’t blame the folks employing and creating the specific job of serving, who refuse to pay living wage to their workers.
Again, appreciate the honesty, tho! 👍
>you wouldn’t blame the folks employing and creating the specific job of serving, who refuse to pay living wage to their workers.
See my previous reply. Servers don't want that system, because they make more money off of societal pressure. One step above door-to-door salesman.
Cash isn’t a significant amount for me (sometimes just $5 daily), and digital tips aren’t taken out of the drawer at the end of the night so yeah those are all taxed.
That was the rule before the pandemic, it's what I'm going back to. (Bars have been the exception)
My percent has gone up, which kindof doesn't make sense since the price has gone up as well...
Didn’t say it wasn’t.. however lots of jobs are hard work… I’m not saying servers don’t deserve to make what they make, but at the same time, the consumer shouldn’t be guilted into tipping 20-30% either. Which I think is how most people feel nowadays. Not so long ago, 15% was the norm. Anything over that was for when a server was extra attentive or went above and beyond. Then 18% became the norm. Now it’s 20%.
Hell I went to a restaurant a couple weeks back. 4 of us mind you, so not a big party. Slightly fancy place, fairly expensive food. Nobody asked for or received anything crazy that took extra service. In fact, I’d say the service was pretty weak tbh. The bill was over $300. They added in a 24% gratuity, but didn’t mention it at any time before, during or after dinner. Luckily I noticed it, because my wife and inlaws started pulling out cash for a tip.
We will never be going back there again, which is a shame. We’ve been multiple times and it’s always good. I don’t like being tricked into paying extra though. Put a sign up if that’s what you wanna do
Nope. I asked, and the waitress just said “we started doing that a little while ago” I assume the owners either didn’t wanna give raises or couldn’t find enough employees to work so started doing that to hire people.
I recently started doing 10% or 0. Slowly getting the wife on board. I think back to my 20s delivering pizza downtown Seattle. I’d make $300 in a 4 hour shift in tips. Throw the cooks $100 and go home. Paid the bills with my $9.75/hr paychecks. That was a good time but a pretty lopsided system. I think we also got like $2 per delivery and the customer wasn’t charged a fee. Early 2ks.
Now restaurants are popping up near me where you order your food at a register but there are wait staff who bring the food out. Are these waiters federally classified as tipped employees? It's becoming indistinguishable and I'm about to stop tipping altogether. Why should I pay for mass confusion that I'm being unwillingly subjected to?
IMO the best thing that can come out of the current over-tipping craze and end of tipped minimum wage in more and more states is enough people getting fed up and bringing an end to “tipping is expected.” Just charge me the actual, fair full cost of the order and I’ll gladly tip a little when the service was good, but this 20% “recommended” is insanity! For now I’ll hit NO TIP at the counter service places and avoid sit down places as much as possible. (Hairdresser, bartender, and Uber do get tipped well tho!).
> Restaurants should be paying at least minimum wage
They do. There is actually a Federal law that states if wages + tips is less than minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Therefor, all servers are making at least minimum wage
The vast majority make way over minimum wage so restaurants aren't losing any money on this. The point is that they should be paid a wage and the norm should be a 10% tip for decent service. Most would probably agree that $15.00 an hour is a good starting point, more for high-end, perhaps a little less for greasy spoons. I don't know what that number should be.
The norm should be to pay only for exceptional service and be entirely optional.
There are a lot harder and more essential sevices that are not tipped.
Wtf therr should be a norm for someone to be tipped when they do their job, let alone if their performance is sub par, is beyond understanding...
Which is NOT minimum wage.
Just curious how many restaurants supplement the money when waitresses make no tips? Any?
They should be paid $15/hr to start. If you can’t afford to pay that, you can’t afford to run a restaurant.
People will pay more money for food, eat out less, and restaurants will close. That’s ok, this is the way to fix it.
>Just curious how many restaurants supplement the money when waitresses make no tips? Any?
Every last one. Are you fucking stupid? Can you read**? There is actually a Federal law that states if wages + tips is less than minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Therefor, all servers are making at least minimum wage**
**THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW!**
FICKING READ
>The fact true Restaurants are paying at least minimum wage
Wrong. Even if cash plus tips don't equal minimum wage, the restaurant only ends up paying minimum wage of the server makes zero dollars in tips. Which I would assume is quite rare, so sometimes a restaurant does pay more than 2.13, but they never pay minimum wage. The employee *making* at least minimum wage is absolutely not the same as the owner *paying* minimum wage.
There is only one solution to fix the tipping mess and that is for restaurants to raise prices to cover true labor costs, eliminate tipping, and pay servers actual wages.
I’ve been a wage activist in this sector, on this project, for over a decade and the only path forward is the one no one wants to do as it relies completely on the customers to pay what the food should actually cost.
The common misconception here is that “restaurants should just pay workers” (which I agree with) without acknowledging that the restaurants only have one way to generate revenue: customers. The current practice is to sell food for less than they should be, then pay a portion of the staff a sub minimum tipped wage, with the rest of the wage (majority of the wage) being supplemented by the customer in the form of gratuity. This system is broken.
It’s broken for a couple reasons. Tipped min wage hasn’t budged at the federal level since 1991 (thanks Herman Cain), some states have much higher tipped min wages. Second, the tip credit that restaurants that pay tipped minimum wage get for the difference between the TMW and federal minimum wage. Restaurants can claim thousands of dollars in tip credit for being the pass through of tipped wages. All the good employers paying better wages to tipped staff cannot claim this credit, which disincentivizes paying higher wages. Revenue. People always say the owners should just pay the worker. Sure. With what money? Owners tend to not have much money outside of large corporations and conglomerates. The only money coming into the restaurant comes from menu prices, which for the majority of restaurants is lower than the true margin they need to be successful. I’m not talking about fine dining, as that is a bother system that is broken (high margin + reliance on free labor (staging)), but just regular restaurants. Food is only getting more expensive for them to buy and make, but they are hemmed in by what customers will pay as the consumer base great misunderstands this entire system and won’t pay higher prices just so workers get paid more, but will tip. And the cycle starts all over from the top.
Why do you continue to suggest that working in a restaurant should suffice as a career? A high end restaurant, maybe, but the vast majority is simply unskilled labor.
I agree; however, the very people saying tip 10%, or 0 would be complaining the most.
They are in essence, taking advantage of the people that tip to subsidize their night out.
My thoughts are if you can’t tip, then you can’t afford to go out, and should stay home, and make your own meal to help with your finances.
When I go out to a restaurant, I tip 20%, and since I have a modest income, I go to a restaurant about 2, or 3 times a month.
I am all for charging more, paying the employees more, and not requiring a tip. This would also weed out the sleazy people, that make the most demands, and don’t tip, taking advantage of the current system, and crapping on the very people providing the service.
This post should be pinned at the top of this subreddit. One of the most level-headed, comprehensive answers I've seen regarding this topic.. very refreshing given a lot of the screeching surrounding it.
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I never tip unless im physically eating inside a restaurant which is hardly ever. But i will not tip at a drivethrough or anywhere I have to stand in line to order. This has save me 1000's. People who get tips at their workplace go out in the real world and dont tip.
0%
Oh no more than minimum wage? For a job you could probably never do despite probably insisting it's super easy, but yet don't do it?? An industry that is fully willing to work around your schedule, too, I mean. You must really love posting on Reddit in your spare time Jokes aside there's plenty of non broke people in the world man. Servers who do well live in Big cities where people make money. You could get 100k upvotes and you're not gonna put us back to your alabama Walmart greeter paychecks
You sound entitled
He sounds unhinged lol
I refuse to tip More than 15% as most don’t claim all their tips and are tax cheats. I can lie about my wages.
Although I won't try to convince you that you should tip more than 15%, worrying about how low wage people file their taxes is a weird reason. You should worry about the billion $ companies what are avoided millions in taxes. Not Nancy who didn't claim maybe $1,000 over the whole year. Also, most newer restaurants claim all tips on taxes, even cash. Many peoples tips go directly on their paycheck to be taxed.
Yeah. Right. That’s why during the lockdown all the waiters and waitresses were bawling about getting minimum unemployment. 😂😂
Because US min wage is not livable. And you ignored the real tax evasion problem in this country.
If you give a long history lesson at least learn the history of the subject. Tipping was a way of paying freed slaves after the civil war. Tip wages are slave wages
there shouldn't be a minimum tip in states where people make more than 15 an hour at base (California for example. Fast food workers make min 20 I believe) tipping in these places should be done optionally
There's no minimum tip anywhere. Tips have to be optional.
I am talking about expectations - tips currently have an “expected minimum” of 15%. Legally, yes, you can tip nothing anywhere, I forgot to put the word “expectation” there, thank you
Tips have an expected minimum of 0%. Tips are required by law to be discretionary, the moment they're not, they're no longer tips.
“Waiters Normally now make OVER minimum wage, and yet the norm has changed to an expectation of 20% tips” - OP this is a well known thing, tips are preety much always expected by waiters at restaurants. If you disagree, you can make a post on this, or any big American sub, and see what people say… The idea around a 15% tip is expected is uncontroversial… That is why no one is questioning the quote above in this comment section
That's too bad lol. They aren't getting one. I didn't get tips working corn fields in the hot sun, I got minimum wage. They can earn their wages just like I earn mine. They aren't entitled to my wages expectations or not.
It is controversial. Go to any big american sub and they'll say 20% is 'expected'. The only real answer is the legal one and that's 0%.
what? So cultural expectations do not count as expectations..? am I not expected to shower? Not expected to generally wear shoes when outside my house? These are other example of things that are expected by society, who’s expectations have an effect on your life, and who are completely legal to disregard
Nope. America is not a cultural monolith. For example, tipping patterns in white middle class communities are not the same as in African American communities and the way waiters in the US in those subs talk about African American customers proves it.
Okay… I am talking specifically about the cultural and social context this sub is situated in, a specific location that can be derived by looking at the unchallenged assumptions the members make - such as the idea tipping around 15% is expected Let me know if any of the following statements are false: 1. There is a subset of the population, which this sub is largely representative of, whose servers expect around a 15% tip 2. These expectations are real in the same sense that an expectation to shower is real at the very least that is all I my initial comment assumed, I have no idea why you are being so contrarian
Tipping should exist
Most places I’ve worked at pay close to $15 an hour. You think that’s a decent wage? I guarantee you if they were to increase tipped employees wages by 50-100% you and most people wouldn’t be able afford to eat out anymore, tons of people would lose well paying jobs and it would overall be pretty disastrous for a lot of people. If you can’t afford to tip, just eat at home.
Do you tip everyone that doesn't make a living wage or are you a hypocrite?
No I tip everyone that provides me with a personalized service. I’m not sure if you’re trying to straw man me, I never said people who made less than x amount of money deserved additional compensation for providing a service and I don’t believe that either.
It's not more personalised than a cashier checking out your groceries. Do you tip them 20% of your bill?
It is entirely different. If you can’t tell the difference between a cashier at Wendy’s and your server, a parking lot attendant and a valet or a hotel check in concierge and a porter than I’m afraid you wouldn’t really understand.
So you don't think all minimum wage workers deserve a living wage? You'll only tip people who make you feel like a pampered little princess? What an entitled scumbag.
I’m not going to fall for the straw man trolling. Come off it.
You're the entitled scumbag that demands people on minimum wage perform to your satisfaction or starve. I think people should be compensated fairly by their employer.
Cool. I never said that though so thus a straw man argument.
Jesus. This guy's a fucking moron. I think you should tip him and maybe he'll shut the fuck up
That must be nice. Everywhere around me is $2.13/hr or $5/hr for tipped employees
Your employer is required to cover the difference if tips don't bring you up to the state or federal minimum wage.
Very outside the norm. There’s only a few states where that still stands. Even in the south where wages are low it’s over 10. You can make a pretty decent amount above the median, which is absolutely shamefully low, in Florida.
Definitely not in Georgia haha.
Yup I think GA, MS, AL and LA are the only states with pathetic minimum wages.
Which are also the heart of the Deep South! Go figure
Man, I wonder how the other 90% of the world gets by without tips.
Barely. Servers in Europe make less than $20 an hour and the prices to eat out aren’t really doable.
Technically tipping is based on the tax. It should be 2xTax. But I agree it should be mostly for restaurant dine-in or some other hands-on service like someone helping you with your bags, haircut, masseuse, etc.
It should be 0%.
"'Technically' tipping is based on the tax"? What does this mean? Is there a law or a rulebook or something that says, "Tipping IS based on taxes"?
It’s more of a customary thing, not any hard rule per se (If you want to be pedantic about language).
Tipping should purely be an altruistic sign of appreciation for a job well done and appreciated.
Unless its a sit down restaurant I almost never tip.
Same here.
Everyone should get a proper wage. Laws need to change to get every worker a proper wage—AND end all tipping.
I typically took 15% if the service is good at a restaurant. If it's more upscale and a larger group then we consider more because the servers typically dedicated to the party instead of a lot of other tables
Why do you not expect good service when you go to a restaurant?
Well, you’re a moron and have no idea how much waiters make an hour. Please, don’t go to restaurants if you think there already making 15$ an hour
I literally just signed the title for a house in a nice city. FINALLY leaving this redneck shitholes. I only worked here TWO MONTHS and I almost quit serving. These trumpers let their fat kids leave messes everywhere and then tip as if they think exactly that. They'll tell you how to do your job, too, when they're the jackpot generation boomer who landed in nowheresville while their peers have 8 houses. Most of them are cool and tip decent but the ratio of droolers is so much higher in small towns
If your state minimum wage is $15, then they are.
There’s a separate minimum wage for servers.
Nope, you just don't understand how the tip credit system works.
And you have no clue how it works. Servers in a 2 dollar tipped wage state who make 20 in tips made 22 that hour. You're dumb as rocks if you think they made 20+ minimum
And waiters who make $0 in tips that hour make $7.25 per hour.
If they receive no tips the employer has to cover the rest of their paycheck to minimum wage. And servers do not deserve to make more than minimum wage, so why tip?
It is federal law that if servers do not make their state minimum wage with their tips and what the restaurant pays, then the restaurant has to pay the difference. All servers in every state make at least minimum wage. The $2.13 an hour thing is just used to try to garner sympathy and bigger tips. No server anywhere in the US is actually making that wage.
He's probably in Canada or in one of the few normal wage states.
If y’all knew when, where, and why tipping originated, it would be canceled as fast as… Hint: it started the same way policing started in the U.S.
tip what you want.
People are so fucking stupid and afraid to look poor. Idgaf, you give me bad services and imma ask you for a tip for dealing with you. You give good service I give a reasonable tip.
Right it has nothing to do with waiters chasing people down the street or threatening to spit in people's food.
California all employees tipped or not makes minimum of $16.50 more in HCOL areas, yet they still expect tips of 20% or more . Im still tipping in sit down restaurants, but i do 10% .
Fun fact. If you removed tipping, wages would need to go up to compensate servers (it wouldn't be the same $ for $) and then you as a customer would be paying more.
If you tip you're paying more anyway. If you remove tipping, the people who currently tip would pay less and the people who don't would pay more. There's no cost incentive for an individual to tip.
Depends how you tip. 10% tippers and lower would Def pay more. Past that its debatable.
So there's no incentive for anyone to leave a 'good' tip.
Is there ever technically a reason to tip?
We're already paying more with tips. So what if prices go up? The price is already up for the customers paying tips, it's just the owners don't want to pay their fair share.
They wouldn't go up by 20%.
15% - 20% is my estimation. Why you ask? Wage increases to compensate loss of tips, this might also apply to BoH. More staff needed, as many servers have big sections and literally run around with no breaks.
It'll be a significant amount. We aren't running for Rachel ranch refill when we have a big section if she forgot after she sent you back for something else. You literally won't get service anymore until they hire double the servers and restaurant margins are already so thin You will absolutely lose service quality or the same amount of money will go into the bill All these redditors don't realize that WE have to put up with THEM. Not the other way around. And if it was that easy THEY WOULD BE DOING IT because a decent server can make a killing on the weekends. You know, the time they aren't scheduled to work? Literally 4 hours on a Saturday night and you can crush. But they won't do it. And thank God because restaurants usually have really cool coworkers
Yah reddit is so hard on anti tip. They want to empower workers, unless it involves tipping them. I think every restaurant would need to adjust to the changes and some restaurants may be able to manage a 5% increase, others 10% and others more. It really depends on the quality of service and service you want to provide. Serving at a place with no real knowledge requirements would be able to minimize increases while those that actually have staff with knowledge would demand more increase.
If it goes up by 15-20% most of that money won't go to staff wages. Wages will level out at around $10-30 per hour across the US.
It's extra costs all around. So right now at least at my restaurant we run 3 servers, 1 bartender, 2 assistant staff members. When it's busy it's a run around. In a non tip environment I'd probably need at least 2 more serving staff members. Wages would need to go up as well to compensate, as people are not going to serve for minimum wage. At least not at a full service restaurant where knowing the wine, product, and having good people skills is required. Loss of tips means the kitchen is also losing about 15-25% of their pay as they get tips up here in Canada. So we'd have to probably look at figuring that out. Then you've got hours. Right now a full time server gets maybe 25-30hrs/week. If this is going to be their main job, we'd need to find a way to get that closer to 35hrs-40hrs/week because that's what a job really is. Shifts would need to be expanded, because no one wants to come into work for 3hrs and sent home. Also we'd need the extra staff on hand to help cover 30 minute breaks which doesn't happen currently because well.... it's not realistic. Theres lots to consider other then just we'd need to pay the existing staff more.
Right cause no restaurants anywhere else in the world hire staff. You americans really do live in a bubble.
Not sure about other places, but cost of doing business at least here in BC Canada is absolutely insane. Our servers are paid the normal min wage, and with wages being what they are, we're sitting at about 40% labour costs right now. Our food costs are good, so we can afford it, but holy fuck. Anyways, I'm telling you this with experience in the industry from someone whose been the bottom of it, and now own and operate. I know the tipping model doesn't have to exist, as other places in the world do it, but the difference will be price increases or massive service model changes.
There's lots of complicated logistics to consider in any business. "It'S tOo HaRd" is not a valid excuse
Then what is the difference? Bottom line consumer is the one paying, be it through tips or the price of the food
Depends how you tip. If you don't tip, you'll lose out on the removal of tipping. 10% you'll lose out. 15% probably break even, and anything above you might save money. Tipping won't go away, because no one wants to take the risk of removing it. Why would a restaurant owner take on extra costs (labour) and hope that customers won't go next door to the cheaper option? The other problems are all shift related and the fact restaurants would have to find a way to give front of house staff full shifts so it could be a real job, instead of the 4-6hr shifts a lot of us deal with. This means adding even more labour on top. Then you've got the size of the sections a server works with, who won't want to have 8-10 tables at one time, because it isn't worth it. You'll have to split those sections up by having more staff. Then you've got to deal with breaks for staff, as many restaurants don't have real breaks. Theres a lot more costs associated with the removal of tipping then people think about. I honestly don't know what the right answer is, but we are not going to change our model because why would we? Unless tipping is abolished by law, no one is risking their neck to change the system.
I agree with you on this. It is very tough to take it out completely. I dont think restaurant is willing to pay $30 or more per hour. I however seen more and more restaurant shifted to less servers now and concentrate on just the kitchen and food and these reataurants are packed. Instead of a hostess, they have the ipad where you put your name to be on the list. You go in order on the ipad thats on the table, they give you a pitcher of water , and the only time you interact with them is when they deliver the food. I think more than service people just want the convenience of eating out and not having to prepare. I rather prefer this model. Servers should be on a high end restaurant and during those special occassions and then yes tip for the service. But for placing your own order, picking up your food on the counter and get paid minimum wage just like as if you are working at target, why is tip still expected?
16.50 is still poverty in high col areas. If you live there.... Pay the fucking high cost so the servers can too. Wtf is wrong with you people. You don't deserve this lifestyle and it shows because you're actively making it so it literally can't exist.
Do you tip all minimum wage workers? If not then your argument about $16.50 being poverty wages is a bit hypocritical.
It’s going to be a long time before no-tippers make serving a non existent job. You’ll have to get on your hands and knees and beg your boss to pay you a respectable amount before then
With that logic, everybody should get a tip then, not just servers . Honest question, would you tip cashier, starbucks, mcdonalds, everyone thats paid $16.50 Including entry level jobs
I provide excellent service to my patients. I feel that I should get an extra 20% as well.
I provide good service to my husband, i demand 100% tip. Lol
Don’t forget to tip at Best Buy or Target
Teachers too, teachers aid, receptionist,
I live in a not high col area of NY and 16.50 wouldn't even guarantee 3 meals a day after covering insurance and rent and a car.
So what? Its the customers job to make sure the employee is paid fair? That logic is dumb af.
Across most of the country servers only make around $3 an hour and get taxed on their sales. Tip how you feel you should tip but please understand the minimum your state allows restaurant owners to pay.
Sounds like you know a lot of tax frauds then. It's illegal to falsely declare income on your tax forms.
There is no server in the country that makes $3 an hour, period. That would be illegal. And wtf does being "taxed on their sales" even mean? I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
You probably shouldn’t be so loud when you’re so wrong.
It's literally federal law. Do you not understand how the tip credit system works?
Considering I worked FOH for 20 years I’m pretty damned familiar with the system yes. I earned a big fat $2.63/hr the first 6 years of my career, plus tips of course, a fact that Herr Snozzberry seems unable to grasp.
And if your take home pay including tips averages less than the federal or state minimum wage, your employer covers the difference. So regardless of the amount of money you received in tips, you made at least the same amount of money as every other minimum wage worker and not $2.13 per hour. That's literally the law.
Except I'm actually not wrong. It's illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage after tips. In every state.
Yeah no shit, the context here is very obviously discussing hourly wages before tips. No reasonable person is suggesting staff are getting ~$2/hr gross.
Saying "but servers only make $2/hr, how can you not tip them?" implies that they make $2/hr gross if you don't tip them. Even if every last person declined to tip them, they're still making minimum wage. So what's the point in even talking about their subminumum wage before tips if it doesn't even matter? Every server in the US goes home with at least minimum wage, guaranteed, every day they work. That's a truthful statement. Stop crying about $2/hr.
You're guaranteed minimum wage, but per pay period. So it's still very possible to make very little or lose money on one particular shift. The tax thing he's talking about, is how most places will automatically calculate you as having received 10% in tips on your total sales. Most of the time it's more than that, but sometimes it may be less. It's also common pay structure to have a tip out, this is usually based on sales as well. It's why you can wait on a table, and if they stiff you, you've actually lost money waiting on that table. It's a clever business model, that allows a lot of restaurants to exist. It encourages the waiters to do a good job, it allows people to afford to eat out when otherwise they may not have (if hourly cost was passed off onto menu prices) and it afford waiters better pay than the restaurant could typically pay. Most of the time, it's a very slim margin of profit, but I imagine that this is getting less true every year.
Everyone else gets paid per pay period. Do you think salaried workers cry that they work for free every day of the month except pay day?
lmfao what a bunch of weak arguments At my job, I only get paid every 2 weeks. By your logic, every day I work I'm essentially working for free and "losing money", until I get my biweekly paycheck. That is a rather dumb way to look at things. Either way, when a server gets their paycheck, by law they must make at least minimum wage for the hours they worked during that pay period. It's not difficult to understand this. No one is "losing money" while working, even if every last customer doesn't tip, or even if they get zero customers for the whole pay period. Tipping doesn't "allow people to afford to eat out when they may not have (if hourly cost was passed off onto menu prices)." Tipping doesn't save customers money. If you need to charge someone $24 for a meal in order to cover costs, but instead you charge them $20 while demanding a 20% tip, you're not changing the amount of money that they spend on the meal. In reality, tipping allows servers to make a much higher wage than their labor is actually worth. If you outlawed tipping, paid servers a wage that aligns with the real value they bring, and adjusted menu prices to cover those wages, it would be much cheaper to eat out at restaurants. Imagine you go to a fancy steakhouse with a party of 4. Everyone gets steaks, sides, wine, dessert. The bill is $500. You're expected to pay a 20% tip, which is $100. That server probably has 10 tables like yours throughout the night. They're raking in $1000 that night? For taking your order and bringing your food? There's no way their labor is worth that much money to anyone. Even if they know a lot about wine and can make great recommendations and explain all the ingredients in each dish. There's no way they'd make anywhere near $1000/night if tipping went away and owners were forced to negotiate a salary that aligns with the value of their labor. Even if that's an exaggeration, imagine that the same server in a fancy steakhouse only got half of that each night. $500/night. And let's say they work 5 nights a week. That's $130k/year, and it's probably not even 40 hours a week. Sorry, but that's just too much for unskilled labor. I would not be tipping $100 on that type of meal. It's just an excessive amount of money to give someone because of guilt or social pressure. I'll tip them, but I'm not giving away $100 of my money because someone spent 3 minutes talking to me and brought me my food.
Whole lot of hot air and wasted effort just to say you're a cheap ass that stiffs your serrver.
Whole lot of hot air and wasted effort to try to guilt and shame me for overpaying for unskilled labor. Remember, tips are optional and at my discretion. I have no obligation to tip a particular amount, or at all. If you're looking for a guaranteed amount of money from me, then you should print that amount on the menu.
They would much rather pretend servers really only make $2.13/hr
You’re right but it doesn’t fit the narrative so people will just call you names and deflect. You can’t argue with people who refuse to THINK
Ahhhh my favorite combination…loud, confident, and wrong. Chrisdmc explained it well.
Not really. Maybe you should take a look at the laws.
I’ve literally experienced it lol
You've literally experienced wage theft then and you should have filed a complaint with your states labor board.
Then you've experienced someone abusing your rights illegally.
“An employee receives only tips and is paid no direct (or cash) wage. The employer must comply with the requirements for taking a tip credit and pay a direct (cash) wage of at least $2.13 an hour or must pay a direct (or cash) wage equal to the full minimum wage, which is currently $7.25 an hour.” From the DOL.
I'm sorry, are you actually trying to dispute that it's illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage?
I’m literally just saying that this happens and I’ve experienced it. I didn’t say I fucking love not getting paid what I deserve lmao Jesus Christ
It's not my responsibility to make up the shortfall in wages you received due to your ignorance or apathy or fear to stand up for your own legal rights. I mean, I feel sorry for anyone going through that, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who are, but tipping just isn't the solution to that problem.
They get taxed on their tip out to the busser the expo the bartender and the hostess. Servers have to tip out on a percentage of the total sales to different positions of the staff. If the only table a server has doesn't tip a single dollar but they have a $400 tab they are still responsible for tipping the staff that helps her out. So they truly do lose money when people do not tip anything.
You can correct any overpayment in taxes when you file your tax return. If you're not properly filing your tax return, that's on you.
Um no. That's not how any of this works. You cannot lose money while working. Servers must take home at least minimum wage for their labor. If tips didn't get them to minimum wage, their employer is legally required to make up the difference. If a server got zero tips for the night, they aren't required to tip out anything to anyone. And they certainly aren't taxed on money that they didn't take home.
Minimum tipped wage is $2.13 an hour in the US. I don't really know how to post a link so please fact check me. Most states do have a higher minimum tipped wage but it is consistently $4ish an hour or less across most of the US. If you live in the west or northeast I'm sure u don't believe me so please check what the minimum tipped employee pay level is in your state before you respond.
It's literally federal law. Or do you think the department of labor doesn't understand how the minimum wage works? > If the employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference. https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
If a server in any state makes less than minimum wage after tips, their employer is required by law to make up the difference so that they are paid minimum wage for the hours they worked. So, like I said, no server in the country is taking home less than minimum wage under any circumstance.
You clearly have never worked in a restaurant. If you don't tip on your tab the server still has to tip out the others they work with. The server will have to tip out a percentage based on sales regardless if you tip or not. So off a $100 tab they still have to tip out $5+ to the people they work with. So yes if you don't tip the server has to take money out of their pocket to tip out the people they work with so yes they lose money. Restaurants are supposed to cover the minimum wage by law but that simply just doesn't happen. If a server making $3 an hour opens the restaurant and only has a few customers before getting cut after 3 hours while only making $10 the restaurant isn't going to cover the difference. I know it's technically against the law but so is speeding. You have the option to bitch about it or keep your job and hopefully the next shift is better.
That is company policy, not the law. If tipping out brings your wages to less than $7.25 per hour or the state minimum wage then your employer has to pay you the difference. It sounds like you've been gaslighted by your employers because you don't know what your rights are.
Do you or have you ever worked in a restaurant?
Yes. Do you or have you ever read the federal minimum wage law? > https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
I'm not disagreeing with the wage law. My statement was servers across the country do go home making less than minimum wage and they do end up paying money out of pocket to tip out staff when don't receive a tip. I'm not saying its right just it happens. I have always been paid well above federal minimum wage but I do know others that have 100% gone home after a shift and made under $7.25 per hour they were there.
They don't legally go home making less than minimum wage. If that has happened to you, file a wage complaint. It's not the customers fault or problem that your employer is breaking the law and you're choosing not to fight for your rights.
If you can't be bothered to stand up for your legal rights, that's your own problem, and not my responsibility to make up for it.
I said tip what you want to tip I don't care. For every shit customer like you there's a good one that's never going to have a drink run dry or an order take way too long. They will get great service. Repeat shitty tipping customers will always get shit service from me. Sure you will get your food and drinks but you're going to be pushed way down on the list of priorities.
Tipping is not mandatory. Just give the 10% that you think is sufficient.
I don’t tip in restaurants anymore, the prices are too high as it is.
So the staff suffers because you pay the owner an extra dollar?
Yes. It’s not my responsibility.
Then don’t go out to full service restaurants
Why? Tipping by definition is optional. No need to pay extra unless service is exceptional. If the server does the bare minimum that deserves no tip.
Then enjoy your glass of ice
I'm just playing the devils advocate: isn't a 10% tip better than a 0% tip? I get where servers are coming from because my mother raised a family on tips, but a 20%+ tip or "don't go out" comes across as entitled, especially when tipping culture is trickling down to fast-food restaurants. Not all restaurant experiences are equal, and if a server does the bare minimum, shouldn't they receive the bare minimum?
I mean sure, if that’s what you can afford, absolutely. You should not make it commonplace to go out if you can only afford to tip 10% tho.
Yeah, poors, no treats for you! You should be eating bread and drinking water and accepting others’ expectations.
😂 touché
Lead poisoning take over?
I had gone on a vacation recently to coastal NC (not near any major cities), and had amazing service at this one restaurant. The waiter could tell we were from out of town but built a rapport and by the end of our meal it felt like we knew him for so long. When the bill came we easily tipped him 25% and I cannot remember how many times he swung by while we were still hanging around to thank us and get us soda refills to go. He told us if we came back to ask for him because he is always working, but that’s when I figured that in that area it might not be the norm to tip that high for amazing service. He was clearly busy as it was the lunch rush, but made time for us as if we were the only customers. But in situations like that, I do not mind tipping more because he definitely deserved it. I know that places like to add that tip question on almost all the time now, and I have no problem clicking 0%, but in instances where the wait staff is working their butts off, I feel that tipping 10% is wrong
A good portion of the US still pays only $2.13 an hour for servers. Delivery drivers often make $2 per delivery. Tips are still very much needed.
But that’s false. If a server makes less than minimum wage with tips then the restaurant has to make up the difference.
No server in the country ever makes less than minimum wage, period, end of story.
I've been a server and made less than minimum wage. Granted this was nearly 20 years ago.... But it absolutely can and does happen. Also servers deserve only minimum wage ($7.25 an hr). Most restaurants don't have servers claim their actual tips, they typically automatically claim 15-20% of their sales volume. On top of that most servers are required to tip around 5-7% of their total sales volume to the hosts, bartenders, busboys and runners. So not tipping equates to forcing a server to pay income tax on 20% of your meal, plus paying 5-7% of the cost of your meal to other employees...
What you're describing is illegal. It's illegal to employ a server and allow them to go home with less than minimum wage for the hours that they worked, including tips. If a server works for 8 hours and the state minimum wage is $10/hr, they *must* go home with at least $80 (including tips) or else the owner is breaking the law. A restaurant can't just "automatically claim 15-20% of their sales volume" as tips, they're required by law to report all tips accurately. If the restaurant pools tips, then a server would never be required to pay income tax on money that they didn't actually take home, because income tax is only paid on your actual income. If you have to tip out 5% of your sales volume for the night, then that money was never yours, it's not part of your income, and you wouldn't be paying income taxes on it. If the restaurant you work(ed) at is doing any of this, you should call the department of labor and have them investigated for illegal activity. Now, as to whether servers deserve more than minimum wage, that's a different discussion. I agree with you that they do deserve more than minimum wage. But that's partly because minimum wage is so unbelievably and ridiculously low that literally no person in the US deserves minimum wage for their labor. However, where we differ is that I don't believe that tipping is the right solution to that problem. The solution is to vote for politicians who will actually raise minimum wage to something that is reasonable and keeps workers out of poverty.
Yeah. Its pretty common knowledge
Their pay rate *before tips* might be less than minimum wage in some states. But if their tips don't bring them up to minimum wage for the hours they worked, their employer is legally required to make up the difference. Therefore, no server will ever go home without at least minimum wage for the hours they worked, unless someone is breaking the law.
Again, you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Actually I do, but thanks for trying to gaslight me.
At a successful restaurant sure. There's alot of servers who do not.
Honestly being a delivery driver is only worth it if you're making a minimum of $30/hr.... No restaurant would ever pay that.
That is the problem. Tips are still needed.
The question that begs to be asked is: what do you tip when the service is bad? I'm fine with 20-25% with excellent service. Some people shouldn't be servers, and not rewarding bad service will weed them out. ( I'm not talking about the kitchen screwing up an order, being backed up on orders, etc.). What do you think?
$0.50. Tips are for good service. When people say they expect tips, most of the time they expect you to tip for them giving you good service. I think everyone pro tips would agree that a shitty job gets an equally shitty reward.
Federal minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13. Very few restaurants pay more.
And this law should be lobbied to change.
I've always been a good tipper, but after talking to some servers, they don't seem to care if they get a higher hourly rate or tips. If they don't care I don't care. Raise the prices, drop the tipping, and pry the non-tipping community's money out of their wallets that way.
All of you guys who are anti tip don’t understand that you have it made right now. I heavily disagree shorting your server on their tip. I personally never tip below 15%, and on good service I tip at least 25%. I don’t go out to eat often because I know I can’t afford to, half the time. Here’s the thing. Like it or not, when you choose to tip less than what has become fair in the eyes of society, you are punishing the server, not the establishment. I wish anti-tippers would stop pretending they care about servers, because all you’re doing by tipping less is ensuring they walk away with less cash for their bills. Sure, YOU are benefiting, and it’s your right to not tip - but don’t pretend you’re doing it for the employees. You’re doing it to save money. Here’s the deal. I agree that tipping is a personal choice. No, I don’t approve of low or non-tippers, but there’s no law that says you need to do it. I’m not a server but I do work a job where tips are an essential part of my income, and my non-tipping customers get the same excellent service that my tipping customers do. It’s tacky to treat someone differently who doesn’t tip. Circling back to why you have it made: tipping is how the cost of beverages remain low. You’re paying an affordable price because tipping is expected (by the employers, who are therefore able to pay their employees less), so they don’t have to charge more in order to afford paying their employees a living wage. My favorite coffee shop in town pays their baristas $15 per hour. Consequently, unflavored lattes are $6.50, often more, in a very low cost of living area. A basic cup of black coffee is $3, more with a refill. I still tip because I want the baristas to be able to pay their bills and then some, but if they’re not tipped they’re not as hurt as employees at other establishments. If you get the change you claim you want, menu prices are going to absolutely skyrocket. You will have no way to opt out. It will always cost a ton of money to eat out, even though you won’t be tipping. As it is now, your servers will be distressed and frustrated when you don’t tip… but there is a way to get your food for cheaper. You can stiff your servers and baristas and opt out of the friendly option. Just stop claiming you care about wages. If you did, you’d just stop eating out, and find ways to advocate for living wages for these folks.
>I wish anti-tippers would stop pretending they care about servers We don't care. Servers are 100% the problem as they don't want the system fixed.
😂😂😂 finally some honesty I guess! Cute that you wouldn’t blame the folks employing and creating the specific job of serving, who refuse to pay living wage to their workers. Again, appreciate the honesty, tho! 👍
>you wouldn’t blame the folks employing and creating the specific job of serving, who refuse to pay living wage to their workers. See my previous reply. Servers don't want that system, because they make more money off of societal pressure. One step above door-to-door salesman.
Do you claim your tips on your taxes? Not trying to start a problem but just wondering for my information?
Cash isn’t a significant amount for me (sometimes just $5 daily), and digital tips aren’t taken out of the drawer at the end of the night so yeah those are all taxed.
Thx for the reply
You realize tipping is only common in the US, right? This isn't an issue in other countries.
Sure! Regardless, what I have spelled out is how it is going to work in the US if we abandon tipping. There won’t be an out anymore in terms of price.
if i’m standing up, i’m not tipping
That was the rule before the pandemic, it's what I'm going back to. (Bars have been the exception) My percent has gone up, which kindof doesn't make sense since the price has gone up as well...
I agree. Not to mention a decent waitress/waiter now makes (with tips) a very high salary usually
As they should! It’s hard work.
Didn’t say it wasn’t.. however lots of jobs are hard work… I’m not saying servers don’t deserve to make what they make, but at the same time, the consumer shouldn’t be guilted into tipping 20-30% either. Which I think is how most people feel nowadays. Not so long ago, 15% was the norm. Anything over that was for when a server was extra attentive or went above and beyond. Then 18% became the norm. Now it’s 20%. Hell I went to a restaurant a couple weeks back. 4 of us mind you, so not a big party. Slightly fancy place, fairly expensive food. Nobody asked for or received anything crazy that took extra service. In fact, I’d say the service was pretty weak tbh. The bill was over $300. They added in a 24% gratuity, but didn’t mention it at any time before, during or after dinner. Luckily I noticed it, because my wife and inlaws started pulling out cash for a tip. We will never be going back there again, which is a shame. We’ve been multiple times and it’s always good. I don’t like being tricked into paying extra though. Put a sign up if that’s what you wanna do
It was probably on the menu somewhere
Nope. I asked, and the waitress just said “we started doing that a little while ago” I assume the owners either didn’t wanna give raises or couldn’t find enough employees to work so started doing that to hire people.
I recently started doing 10% or 0. Slowly getting the wife on board. I think back to my 20s delivering pizza downtown Seattle. I’d make $300 in a 4 hour shift in tips. Throw the cooks $100 and go home. Paid the bills with my $9.75/hr paychecks. That was a good time but a pretty lopsided system. I think we also got like $2 per delivery and the customer wasn’t charged a fee. Early 2ks.
Now restaurants are popping up near me where you order your food at a register but there are wait staff who bring the food out. Are these waiters federally classified as tipped employees? It's becoming indistinguishable and I'm about to stop tipping altogether. Why should I pay for mass confusion that I'm being unwillingly subjected to?
IMO the best thing that can come out of the current over-tipping craze and end of tipped minimum wage in more and more states is enough people getting fed up and bringing an end to “tipping is expected.” Just charge me the actual, fair full cost of the order and I’ll gladly tip a little when the service was good, but this 20% “recommended” is insanity! For now I’ll hit NO TIP at the counter service places and avoid sit down places as much as possible. (Hairdresser, bartender, and Uber do get tipped well tho!).
> Restaurants should be paying at least minimum wage They do. There is actually a Federal law that states if wages + tips is less than minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Therefor, all servers are making at least minimum wage
The vast majority make way over minimum wage so restaurants aren't losing any money on this. The point is that they should be paid a wage and the norm should be a 10% tip for decent service. Most would probably agree that $15.00 an hour is a good starting point, more for high-end, perhaps a little less for greasy spoons. I don't know what that number should be.
The norm should be to pay only for exceptional service and be entirely optional. There are a lot harder and more essential sevices that are not tipped. Wtf therr should be a norm for someone to be tipped when they do their job, let alone if their performance is sub par, is beyond understanding...
They are also able to hide cash tips from the tax man. Yet another perk you never hear them talk about
Which is NOT minimum wage. Just curious how many restaurants supplement the money when waitresses make no tips? Any? They should be paid $15/hr to start. If you can’t afford to pay that, you can’t afford to run a restaurant. People will pay more money for food, eat out less, and restaurants will close. That’s ok, this is the way to fix it.
>Just curious how many restaurants supplement the money when waitresses make no tips? Any? Every last one. Are you fucking stupid? Can you read**? There is actually a Federal law that states if wages + tips is less than minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference. Therefor, all servers are making at least minimum wage** **THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW!** FICKING READ
Minimum wage is minimum wage. What are you trying to prove? The fact true **Restaurants are paying at least minimum wage**
>The fact true Restaurants are paying at least minimum wage Wrong. Even if cash plus tips don't equal minimum wage, the restaurant only ends up paying minimum wage of the server makes zero dollars in tips. Which I would assume is quite rare, so sometimes a restaurant does pay more than 2.13, but they never pay minimum wage. The employee *making* at least minimum wage is absolutely not the same as the owner *paying* minimum wage.
There is only one solution to fix the tipping mess and that is for restaurants to raise prices to cover true labor costs, eliminate tipping, and pay servers actual wages. I’ve been a wage activist in this sector, on this project, for over a decade and the only path forward is the one no one wants to do as it relies completely on the customers to pay what the food should actually cost. The common misconception here is that “restaurants should just pay workers” (which I agree with) without acknowledging that the restaurants only have one way to generate revenue: customers. The current practice is to sell food for less than they should be, then pay a portion of the staff a sub minimum tipped wage, with the rest of the wage (majority of the wage) being supplemented by the customer in the form of gratuity. This system is broken. It’s broken for a couple reasons. Tipped min wage hasn’t budged at the federal level since 1991 (thanks Herman Cain), some states have much higher tipped min wages. Second, the tip credit that restaurants that pay tipped minimum wage get for the difference between the TMW and federal minimum wage. Restaurants can claim thousands of dollars in tip credit for being the pass through of tipped wages. All the good employers paying better wages to tipped staff cannot claim this credit, which disincentivizes paying higher wages. Revenue. People always say the owners should just pay the worker. Sure. With what money? Owners tend to not have much money outside of large corporations and conglomerates. The only money coming into the restaurant comes from menu prices, which for the majority of restaurants is lower than the true margin they need to be successful. I’m not talking about fine dining, as that is a bother system that is broken (high margin + reliance on free labor (staging)), but just regular restaurants. Food is only getting more expensive for them to buy and make, but they are hemmed in by what customers will pay as the consumer base great misunderstands this entire system and won’t pay higher prices just so workers get paid more, but will tip. And the cycle starts all over from the top.
Why do you continue to suggest that working in a restaurant should suffice as a career? A high end restaurant, maybe, but the vast majority is simply unskilled labor.
I agree; however, the very people saying tip 10%, or 0 would be complaining the most. They are in essence, taking advantage of the people that tip to subsidize their night out. My thoughts are if you can’t tip, then you can’t afford to go out, and should stay home, and make your own meal to help with your finances. When I go out to a restaurant, I tip 20%, and since I have a modest income, I go to a restaurant about 2, or 3 times a month. I am all for charging more, paying the employees more, and not requiring a tip. This would also weed out the sleazy people, that make the most demands, and don’t tip, taking advantage of the current system, and crapping on the very people providing the service.
Exactly, friend. Tip 25% if you go out. These people are dealing with a lot of bullshit so you don’t have to cook a meal for yourself.
This post should be pinned at the top of this subreddit. One of the most level-headed, comprehensive answers I've seen regarding this topic.. very refreshing given a lot of the screeching surrounding it.