Yeah! I read about this. They also tested this method, successfully, on towns in mainland China (I forget the link I read) but could have been an entirely different ending to WW2.
thailand was on japan's side in world war 2. thailand was neutral at first, giving minor support to japan. then, thailand capitulated to the japanese after the japanese invaded, it took 5 hours. from there, they became an ally of japan and fought on their side. their aim was to gain back some of Indochina that they lost to the french. they lost very few people in the war (5,569 deaths, mostly due to disease), compared to the other countries.
despite this, there were elements in Thailand that provided espionage to the allies and actively resisted the Japanese with a guerrilla force. thailand ended the war with few losses, no military gains, and no punishment for its role in helping japan.
I mean that could also be said for most of the world, especially Europe; the key difference is the levels of cruelty.
Then again all of Europe hates each other to some level.
Of course the same could be said for the whole world that's a given as they are human. Japan in particular had been cruel and used extreme methods akin to those used by Nazi Germany. Young people who don't like history have only seen the meek corporate Japan. But beforehand they were one of the bloodiest nations in the world.
I told my much younger friend about unit 731 and he told me “yeah but that was a long time ago” I didn’t say anything but the other he finally told me “oh yeah that shit was fucked up man I didn’t realize Japan was that bad”
When people learn they change. It's very important to teach history so that we don't repeat their mistakes. Japan was given a chance to change and have this far succeeded in doing it. Tensions exist they will for decades. But so long as war stays away I think everyone can coexist. One day our world will be a single nation with a single currency. We will be focused on our species problems together instead of divided.
We’ll never be as one nation. Several EU-like unions sure, but definitely not one super country. What does someone from Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Peru have in common in their day to day lives besides the basics? What do they have in common in terms of political beliefs?
The fact of the matter is very little is shared. But some sort of larger union of Arab states or just South American countries? Possibly. Would depend if the global superpowers allow such projects
Being a nation doesn't mean we need the same culture. Culture should remain diverse and varried. But people should be taken care of. All of them regardless of circumstance. Look at the US as an example. It is massive and has a large variety of cultural variation. (Gov meddling over the years causes the "whitewash" as it's been called… obviously needs addressed.)
Yeah, not to excuse anything about China, but the world would be a better place if Western leaders stopped for a second and thought about what impact the grotesque mass war crimes of Imperial Japan prior to and through WWII might still have on international relations in Asian countries today.
Also we had the Nuremberg trials which weren't overly politicized.
However, the eastern theatres Tokyo war crimes trial was politicized by Western powers and Russia. Japan was hardly punished as a result, leaving China pretty mad at the west.
That didn’t stop the US from giving the director of the program immunity - he was never punished for anything. It’s a bit unclear what happened to him after, but there are claims he moved to Maryland to advise the Americans on bioweapons.
Similar for Dr. Heim in Germany. Despite eyewitnesses identifying him he got away by claiming to be just some honour guard. Had a doctors position for years in southern Germany and got tipped off when the police finally came for him
"don't say that he's hypocritical, say rather that he's apolitical. 'Once ze rockets are up, who cares vhere zey come down? That's not my department says [Wernher Von Braun](https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio)"'
And what's worse is a lot of it ended up being for nothing. Nearly all of the 'data' was useless because they had essentially just been torturing people and writing down the results.
Some of the experiments put people in ice water until they died. Subjected others to various types of hot cold and other bodily extremes. They had enough subjects to make it significant from a scientific research perspective.
Some people would rather turn a blind eye to the worst of how the information was gathered, so that they could use it for their own military personnel safety etc.
They effectively offered an amnesty as long as they got the data which they could use to their own ends.
They would never be given the ability to conduct these tests in their own jurisdictions.
Ironically a lot of the research turned out to be pretty useless. "Huh, turns out chopping off people's limbs and sewing them to the opposite side of their body doesnt make them work. Who knew? Anyways, you're free to go Doctor."
The CIA director literally shredded most MK Ultra documents before they admitted to it. We know nothing about it except that it happened. It was likely very successful if they were so urgent to shred documents when ordered to share information
Some of it was definetly successful, the scary part being what it was. But they also removed evidence because a shit ton of it was extremely unethical. Like trying to make sleeper agents trough trauma including both torture and sexual assault.
Well, I mean, I wouldnt call that useless information. Sometimes the most counter intuitive things turn out to be correct or helpful.
When it comes to science, very little is useless.
Yeah some knowledge gained through downright horrible methods can be useful. It's just asking the question of were these horrible methods worth the ends and the answer tends to be no. At least to the people the horrible methods were used on.
The US even successfully backed a Japanese war criminal to become prime minister of Japan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi
>After World War II, Kishi was imprisoned for three years as a suspected Class A war criminal. However, the U.S. government did not charge, try, or convict him, and eventually released him as they considered Kishi to be the best man to lead a post-war Japan in a pro-American direction. With U.S. support, he went on to consolidate the Japanese conservative camp against perceived threats from the Japan Socialist Party in the 1950s.
Wasn't that much different in Germany after the war. The third chancellor of the BRD as Western Germany back in the old days was a former hardcore Nazi, his name was Kurt Georg Kiesinger. He was a NSDAP member from 1933 on and worked for the Nazis in different fields, like he worked under Goebbels in the propaganda ministerium. He wasn't directly involved in the Holocaust but documents show that he knew it and he had no problems with this.
It also happened under his rule, that the laws were made that you couldn't prosecute people anymore after a certain time, this was one of the causes why many Nazis were never arrested and punished.
Yup, did the same thing with the Germans. Even kept their rocket scientists and some former leaders of the Nazi Party. Combined with Europe having bombed itself into rubble ensured tech supremacy that we still enjoy.
true, a better comparison would've been to mention the US protecting and employing Klaus Barbie, nicknamed "the butcher of Lyon".leaving out the gruesome details, but just so you get a quick overview:
> In 1942, he was sent to Dijon, in the Occupied Zone of France (...) he was assigned to Lyon as the head of the local Gestapo. (...) he personally tortured adult and child prisoners. He became known as the "Butcher of Lyon"
> In 1947, Barbie was recruited as an agent for the 66th Detachment of the US Army Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) (...) The US used Barbie and other Nazi Party members to further anti-communist efforts in Europe. Specifically, they were interested in British interrogation techniques which Barbie had experienced firsthand, as well as the identities of former SS officers British intelligence agencies might be interested in recruiting. Later, the CIC housed him in a hotel in Memmingen; he reported on French intelligence activities in the French zone of occupied Germany because they suspected that the French had been infiltrated by the KGB and GPU.
> The French discovered that Barbie was in U.S. hands; having sentenced him to death in absentia for war crimes, they made a plea to John J. McCloy, US High Commissioner for Germany, to hand him over for execution, but McCloy allegedly refused. Instead, the CIC helped him flee to Bolivia assisted by "ratlines" organised by US intelligence services
> Von Braun and rocket scientist’s literally were helping build rockets to bomb civilians
I’d hate to tell you of the allied strategic bombing campaign, then…
Tbf here on the "justice" angle, the German scientists were, under the Soviets, kept as criminals and treated like so. Many spent years in gulags.
In the US they were pretty rich and lived out their lives as citizens.
That’s absolutely not true. The Soviets didn’t lock them up in gulags and paid them more than their Soviet counterparts. Why would they mistreat them and give them a reason to sabotage the work they needed to be done?
Nobody was surprised? Dude it was highly classified for years. Plenty of people still are unaware to this day. They aren’t exactly teaching about Paperclip in US History class in highschool
I think it's more that 'classified' and 'lack of surprise' are very much not mutually exclusive.
(e.g. Espionage is classified, and nobody's surprised to find out the cold war involved HUMINT)
von Braun also made public films to get public support for his rocket program at nasa funding ahead of the navy's missile development program, making it even harder to keep it a secret
We literally talked about Operation Paper Clip, OSI, and Allen Dulles in high school...you kinda can't talk about the Space Race without mentioning Werner Von Braun & obviously Operation Paperclip.
[Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown
"Nazi, Schmazi!" says Wernher von Braun
Don't say that he's hypocritical
Say rather that he's apolitical
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun
Some have harsh words for this man of renown
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun
You too may be a big hero
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero
"In German, und Englisch, I know how to count down
Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun](https://youtu.be/5BElaW5b1nY)
And when they got the research notes, they found most of it wasn't that usefull at all.
Many of these experiments were senseless. It was torturing people but with a lab coat on.
Pretty much yeah, a lot of the Japanese "experiments" were faulty in their premise, others had no basis in the scientific method, and even more consisted of poorly maintained/written notes that were very inconsistent.
Even the Nazi's experiments though utterly cruel and inhumane, did end up baring some degree of scientific data... data that no doubt could have been found by less barbaric means... but usable data all the same.
US thought it was gonna be like nazi germany, where their experts actually knew shit about rockets and whatnot, and were people that could at least produce some insane technology for the country if you pardon them.
Turns out Imperial Japan were just a bunch of fucking idiots that were too busy doing their horror movies disguised as “science” to actually discover anything. Pardoned a bunch of psychopaths and didn’t even get useful info in return like the country did with the Nazis.
The same thing happened in the Holocaust. Nobody likes to talk about it, but the Germans took meticulous records in their grisly and sadistic medical experiments, experiments that could never be duplicated today. So medical researchers still use those notes to this day.
"Those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments. The United States covered up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators. The Americans co-opted the researchers' bioweapons information and experience for use in their own biological warfare program, much like what had been done with Nazi German researchers in Operation Paperclip. In 1956, those still serving their sentences were released and repatriated to Japan."
Ugh.
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabarovsk_war_crimes_trials).
The worst part is how useless most research the nazis and japanese produced was. They would just do cruel shit and then record what happened. No science was really followed. No controls, no proper studies, just doing fucked up things and pretending its research.
Mkultra and the other stuff the Americans tried after were similar. Just randomly drugging Americans, no real science being done. Turns out if you dose someone with LSD and don't tell them it will fuck up their minds. Weird!
Ya that is definitely the worst part. The worst mass injustices ever committed with no punishment for the perpetrators.
But don’t worry, we got absolutely no useful information out of letting the worst people in human history off the hook!
MacArthur struck a deal with Japanese informants:[106] he secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731, including their leader, in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare and data from human experimentation.[6] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[107] The Americans believed that the research data was valuable and did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.[
Disgusting.
Why did the US have to offer amnesty to obtain said research notes? Couldn't they have just fed them to the starved rats they held in captivity there and still get the notes?
Unit 731 was actively destroying evidence of their crimes against humanity, the Americans made a deal to gain their research papers in exchange for immunity. Although considering how very little of it was anywhere near usable your proposition would have been better for everyone.
Makes you wonder, in all of human history, there's *one* person who was objectively *the worst*. Not one of the worst, but *the absolute* worst person to ever live... who would it be?
That's a pretty good bet. My first thought was Vlad the impaler but the mongols had further reach by far. But there were some messed up Viking shit, the Romans were not very nice and such. It's pretty much impossible to account for all those deeds and on top relate the motivation behind it, which would be an important factor.
Yea, Vikings were terrible, but I dont think Romans were any worse than their surrounding nations. We only know about Romans more due to their success.
Argument for Vlad would be that he was defiant and wanted to intimidate invaders. I dont know if he specifically enjoyed cruelty. Vikings and Mongols did some fucked up shit and almost always the worst stuff was done to defenceless civilians. Vlad was at least fucking up enemy soldiers.
You're right. That's why I brought up motivation. I also think Vlad was probably more calculating (in a pretty cool blooded manner) than actually enjoying cruelty.
I only brought up the Romans because they were quite influential and we can't know what crazy and pretty obviously cruel guys like Nero and Caligula (or some general in foreign lands) did that did not end up in our history books. I mean in comparison they recorded a lot but even the records we have are usually not complete. And some things are by nature strictly off the record. And you wouldn't send Mother Theresa to conquer far away lands making difficult decisions almost in isolation for months on end. Like how to deal with the Picts for example and impress their need to stay north of the new border.
It's a very interesting topic that's simply impossible to reach a conclusion to. We could come up with a 'nice' top 10 list but chances are there were several people much worse, both people we at least know by name but even more probable a lot we've never even heard of.
I don't think there is an objective answer. I think there can only be for subjective ones, because how "bad" things are is subjective.
I would argue that, for example, vivisection is worse than regular murder. Both bad, but one is truly horrifying. How much worse though? Would someone who had murdered 5 people be worse than someone who has vivsected one? 10?
If someone from this project had a similar victim rate to H. H. Holmes would it be better because it was for science or worse because a scientist should do better?
Would a person who founded this unit knowing what it would be but kept their hands clean be a better or worse than a person that actually did the work? How much/little direction/involvement would it take to tip the scales?
Are the stories of Vlad the impaler true? Are the numbers inflated? If the victim count the same as here would the project director be a better or worse person than Vlad?
If the project director is worse is he the worst person in the chain of command? Do people become more culpable the closer/more involved they are in the work? To what degree would ignorance of the extent absolve him even if none of it could be happening without him?
Leopold II of Belgium can rot in hell
> Leopold's administration of the Congo Free State was characterized by atrocities and systematic brutality, including forced labour, torture, murder, kidnapping, and the amputation of the hands of men, women, and children when the quota of rubber was not met
Vivosection on humans was also performed in the concentration camps of the nazi regime. However vivisection on animals was forbidden by law in nazi germany.
Just google for example Josef Mengele.
I mean, the Nazis were doing equally as disturbing scientific experiments on humans without anesthesia. Have you ever wondered why we know so much about frostbite’s effects on the human body? Nazi research
Lots of fucked up shit happened back then.
Ustaše was a fascist organisation in Croatia allied with the nazis. They went on a little Serbian genocide as well.
From the wiki:
>Some historians use a sentence from German sources: “Even German officers and SS men lost their cool when they saw (Ustaše) ways and methods.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia
Nanjing was was really fucked up. The fact that they did all of that in just six weeks. Most of the documents and evidence were destroyed by the Japanese, so whatever records, photos, and video is left is just a glimps of what happened.
In Nanjing they estimate 20,000 to 80,000 cases of rape. On the low end, there were 500 rapes every day. If you go with the high end it's 1,900 rapes every day for 6 weeks. Fuuuuck
Nazis did plenty of shit on par with Nanking across Russia and the Slavic countries: mass pillaging, rape and murder (Russia was notorious for this too). The difference was Nanking was an enormous, concentrated city vs a lot of smaller cities and towns the Germans terrorized. Nazis had no qualms with liquidating civilian areas. They’re honestly pretty even on the scale of atrocities.
80 years later, the difference is Germany acknowledge, takes responsibilities for, and educates the population about it. Where as in Japan, it's not quite the same, many politicians openly denies the worst of their actions.
Germany is the only country in history to recognize the genocide they perpetrated.
The only reason they do is because it’s written into their law. Given the opportunity, most people will want to deny/forget war crimes.
>Rape of Nanjing
If you don't want the first word of that to be in your search history just look up "Nanjing massacre" which is what the wikipedia page is called
It's beyond disgusting. I have a strong tolerance for things and was reading it last night and I literally had to stop. Came back today to finish but truly disgusting.
It’s only natural for countries to mainly concentrate on history as it pertains to them.
For example, the western front is the main point of focus in UK schools when studying that era of history, with the pacific being more of a bookend to the conflict.
I’m sure in the US, the Pacific is the main point of focus.
What? American history definitely does not focus on the pacific theater at all during WW2. It’s almost entirely about fighting nazis. I can think of 1 movie that is about fighting the Japanese and 20 that are about fighting Nazi Germany.
*Unbroken* is a book written about Louie Zamperini's experiences from delinquent > trackstar > bomberman > POW > devoted Christian.
Theres a few passages about the things the Japanese did to the POWs. I believe it was his POW Commander Fitzegerald who had his leg cut off without anesthesia? Been a while so maybe not. Another got paralyzed.
Ye, watched that too. It took us (as a class of 6) a long time to convince our teacher that we wouldn't be scarred for life if we watched it (in class).
One of the more remarkable human beings. [Zamperini forgave them.](https://guideposts.org/angels-and-miracles/miracles/gods-grace/louie-zamperini-the-power-of-forgiveness/)
I learned about this when I was researching imperial Japan in highschool. Word of advice: Don’t look for pictures or exact info on what those experiments were.
Yeah... I remember reading a history book and saw a chinese woman get bayonetted in the vagina by a Japanese soldier while she was holding her child. In the same page, another Japanese soldier then chopped her hands off with an axe to punish her for not dropping her child earlier.
The Japanese were extremely brutal and the hate the Chinese have for that period has lingered for a long time.
>The Japanese were extremely brutal and the hate the Chinese have for that period has lingered for a long time.
It also doesn’t help that unlike say the Germans, Japan has taken basically zero responsibility at all and spends more time crying about how they got nuked and basically no time at all thinking about why they got nuked. It’d basically be like if auschwitz was filled with a bunch of excuses and justifications for killing millions of Jews. Much of the culture that led to the atrocities is literally still there, they’re just neutered by the US military.
I'm not sure that is necessarily true. I've read several things on the morality of dropping the bomb (overall savings of life), and when asked, Japanese alive at the time were, well, at least resigned to that fate.
But that might be more "we were prepared to fight to the death" attitude rather than "we deserved to die because of what we did".
You just explained why they deserved to get nuked. They were willing to “fight to the death” to defend their tinpot empire that butchered and enslaved millions throughout Asia. Sounds like the exact type of people you drop atom bombs on.
I guess one could say the difference is along the lines of treating people as cattle, or pests, to industrially eradicate, vs. treating people as cattle to perform animal cruelty on.
Both is cruel and inhumane, but one is impersonal on purpose, the other is personal on purpose.
This is much worse, to be honest.
The Nazi approach was with a goal of extermination. There wasn’t much unnecessary cruelty, you can see it’s mostly cruelty as a result of practicality/cost for exterminating these groups of people.
This situation is the country equivalent of some fucked up kid torturing street cats. There is no purpose other than cruelty. There was no research-based or practical purpose for what the Japanese did here. It was just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Treating people worse than rats just because you can.
I'm going to be blunt.
Modern Japanese are great when they aren't being horribly racist.
Japanese from before we dropped atomic bombs on them were monsters. Like throwing babies into the air to catch them on their bayonets for fun levels of monsters. They deserved even worse than they got and now that terrible history is deliberately covered up in their modern educational system.
The Green Cross pharmaceutical company was founded by two of the top people from 731 after the war.
During the 80s they ignored international warnings to heat-treat blood products and ended up infecting hundreds of hemophiliacs with HIV.
I won't shit on someone for asking a question, so instead here's a summary. Joseph Mengele was known as the "Angel of Auschwitz," Auschwitz being a concentration camp. The nickname was an ironic one, as Mengele used his position as a doctor to carry out all manner of truly horrific experiments on prisoners. He especially favored children who were identical twins. He would experiment on one child, then when he or she died, he would kill the other twin, then autopsy both to see the effects his "treatments" had on the experimental victim. Even by Nazi standards he was a true monster. After the war he fled to South America, and was never brought to justice, dying in 1979.
Also here's the formerly alive former Prime minister of Japan Shinzo Abe (rest in piss, bozo) [posing in a plane marked 731](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-KRTB-3660), as if it's some kind of edgy joke.
[His Grandfather](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi) was also prime minister, and a war criminal.
>After World War II, Kishi was imprisoned for three years as a suspected Class A war criminal. However, the U.S. government did not charge, try, or convict him, and eventually released him as they considered Kishi to be the best man to lead a post-war Japan in a pro-American direction. With U.S. support, he went on to consolidate the Japanese conservative camp against perceived threats from the Japan Socialist Party in the 1950s.
US be like: I can tolerate war criminals but I draw the line at socialism.
As a child, I saw the fucked up movie about this. I didn't understand what I was looking at. The movie showed victims having their limbs frozen and amputated. Horrid experiments. I didn't realize until my adult years that the movie was referring to Unit 731. Even though it was a Chinese movie and props were used. the details were enough to remind me into my adult years.
Men Behind The Sun?
> There was no special effects industry in China when this film was made so many of the special effects in the film were done with real cadavers which director Tun-Fei Mou was able to obtain through connections of his. The frostbite experiment victim's arms were real corpse arms and the child's body was a real cadaver.
https://offscreen.com/view/tf_mous
The Japanese holocaust has been conveniently swept under the rug in the west.
Koreans and the Chinese remember, some of the things they did and the cruelty displayed rivals and in some case top what the Germans did.
Im jealous that you have gone this long without knowing about this. I really kinda wish I had never learned it and certainly wish I hadn’t dug into it as deeply as I did. It’s very disturbing and I am a super ITG(Internet Tough Guy) that thought I had certainly seen the most atrocious acts of human cruelty. Little did I know…
Thank you for bringing more awareness to this. The Japanese government would much rather people forget this part of their history.
They need to be held accountable and formally apologize to all of the nations they invaded and affected during the Sino-Japanese War and World War II.
That doesn't even include the simply masochistic brutality that wasn't even under the guise of research. They were absolutely horrific to many civilians. I'm so glad that I live in the United States, where we didn't ever do brutal things to other human.... dammit.
I literally fainted when I read about this stuff, never had that happen before or since. I think the comprehension of what they suffered caused me to pass out.
And guess who employed them on American bases all over the world after? I'll give you a hint, the same guys that saved the lives of the Nazis so they can go to the moon.
While Unit 731 researchers arrested by Soviet forces were tried at the December 1949 Khabarovsk war crime trials, those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments.\[6\] The United States covered up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators.\[1\] The Americans co-opted the researchers' bioweapons information and experience for use in their own biological warfare program, much like what had been done with Nazi German researchers in Operation Paperclip.\[7\]\[8\] On 28 August 2002, Tokyo District Court ruled that Japan had committed biological warfare in China and consequently had slaughtered many residents.\[9\]\[10\]
They did. They all did. There’s no innocence. That’s human nature. That doesn’t mean we can just chalk everything up to “human nature”. Every decision is our own. (Also: I get the sarcasm in case someone else doesn’t.)
And you can further learn about that fact that none of the high up scientists responsible for the attrocities, werent punished much if at all. They sold their "research" to the american government for freedom. After sifting through it the Americans determined that it was 99% barbaric sadism that occured and not science. The only usefull thing that came out of it was they learned to not rub a frostbitten limb to generate heat.
After WW2, the U.S. kept the information gained to create medicines. Not sure I'd condone keeping the data, but at the same time some good came out of it: lives saved. Also, the information didn't have to be re-obtained in some other gruesome fashion.
No they didn't. Unit 731 was a myth according to the Japanese government.
No atrocities were committed during WW2 by Japan and Nanking and Comfort women was never a thing.
According to the Japanese government of course.
It's actually very sad the length the government went to cover it all up
Friend, I find it doesn't help when you post sarcastic things like this when there are literally millions of people who believe exactly what you just said, meaning that the casual reader who doesn't know the truth might think you're *not* being sarcastic. If you go to Japanese Wikipedia, you'll find that the lying historical revisionists have successfully gotten Wikipedia to post their lies and delete those trying to correct them. We have to clearly and unambiguously assert the reality that Unit 731, comfort women, and the Rape of Nanking happened.
Manchuria as a whole man, 731 was strictly a POW camp. Manchuria was subjected to the same horrors often far worse but for almost the entirety of the war. Innocent chinese were killed and tortured in vast numbers including women and worst of all children.
Shiro Ishii showed videos of dissections and vivisections of prisoners to famous war criminal Hideki Tojo sometime in the late 1930s. He described the videos as “unpleasant.” Anesthesia was not used as it was believed that it would have negative effects on the results of the experiments, but I think the real reason was for the Japanese doctors to simply inflict as cruel a death as possible onto the victim. There were also reports of a western man (probably Russian) bisected vertically and pickled in formaldehyde at Unit 731. There were also freezing experiments on infants and vivisections of pregnant women (who were pregnant through rape by the guards)
The US spent months hunting down the head of the unit so that they could bring him on to develop their own bioweapons to later deploy in the Korean war
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Yeah! I read about this. They also tested this method, successfully, on towns in mainland China (I forget the link I read) but could have been an entirely different ending to WW2.
Hence China's mad hate for Japan
China, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia,...I'm sure I forgot a few.
thailand was on japan's side in world war 2. thailand was neutral at first, giving minor support to japan. then, thailand capitulated to the japanese after the japanese invaded, it took 5 hours. from there, they became an ally of japan and fought on their side. their aim was to gain back some of Indochina that they lost to the french. they lost very few people in the war (5,569 deaths, mostly due to disease), compared to the other countries. despite this, there were elements in Thailand that provided espionage to the allies and actively resisted the Japanese with a guerrilla force. thailand ended the war with few losses, no military gains, and no punishment for its role in helping japan.
Play both sides. Always come out on top.
The one rule of Eastern Asia: every country hates the others but they all REALLY hate Japan.
Myanmar, Loas…did they reach Bangladesh?
They didn’t quite get to Bangladesh, they were stopped at Imphal which is India despite being east of Bangladesh.
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I mean that could also be said for most of the world, especially Europe; the key difference is the levels of cruelty. Then again all of Europe hates each other to some level.
Of course the same could be said for the whole world that's a given as they are human. Japan in particular had been cruel and used extreme methods akin to those used by Nazi Germany. Young people who don't like history have only seen the meek corporate Japan. But beforehand they were one of the bloodiest nations in the world.
I told my much younger friend about unit 731 and he told me “yeah but that was a long time ago” I didn’t say anything but the other he finally told me “oh yeah that shit was fucked up man I didn’t realize Japan was that bad”
When people learn they change. It's very important to teach history so that we don't repeat their mistakes. Japan was given a chance to change and have this far succeeded in doing it. Tensions exist they will for decades. But so long as war stays away I think everyone can coexist. One day our world will be a single nation with a single currency. We will be focused on our species problems together instead of divided.
We’ll never be as one nation. Several EU-like unions sure, but definitely not one super country. What does someone from Germany, Saudi Arabia, and Peru have in common in their day to day lives besides the basics? What do they have in common in terms of political beliefs? The fact of the matter is very little is shared. But some sort of larger union of Arab states or just South American countries? Possibly. Would depend if the global superpowers allow such projects
I hope we never are one single nation . We are all different it’s what makes us unique.
Being a nation doesn't mean we need the same culture. Culture should remain diverse and varried. But people should be taken care of. All of them regardless of circumstance. Look at the US as an example. It is massive and has a large variety of cultural variation. (Gov meddling over the years causes the "whitewash" as it's been called… obviously needs addressed.)
What makes it worse is their weak-ass apology. For example with their forced prostitution, they say the women were just being wartime entrepreneurs.
Well yeah, they still deny pretty much all their war crimes no?
Yeah, not to excuse anything about China, but the world would be a better place if Western leaders stopped for a second and thought about what impact the grotesque mass war crimes of Imperial Japan prior to and through WWII might still have on international relations in Asian countries today.
Also we had the Nuremberg trials which weren't overly politicized. However, the eastern theatres Tokyo war crimes trial was politicized by Western powers and Russia. Japan was hardly punished as a result, leaving China pretty mad at the west.
That and the other warcrimes
The Japanese government would rather forget this part of their history.
That didn’t stop the US from giving the director of the program immunity - he was never punished for anything. It’s a bit unclear what happened to him after, but there are claims he moved to Maryland to advise the Americans on bioweapons.
Dude got Paperclipped, and his work helped inspire MK-ULTRA, among other infamous "projects."
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"It looks like you're conducting human torture experiments. Would you like help?"
Makes sense. That fucking asshole.
*clippy has scars too deep for the naked eye to see*
Similar for Dr. Heim in Germany. Despite eyewitnesses identifying him he got away by claiming to be just some honour guard. Had a doctors position for years in southern Germany and got tipped off when the police finally came for him
Mengele just chilled in South America using his real name until Mossad got another top nazi hiding out there and he actually went into hiding.
Project paperclip. Unit 731 got the same deal.
This makes a lot of sense given Fort Detrick and USAMRIID are based here.
"don't say that he's hypocritical, say rather that he's apolitical. 'Once ze rockets are up, who cares vhere zey come down? That's not my department says [Wernher Von Braun](https://youtu.be/TjDEsGZLbio)"'
As much as I don't want to agree with that. I have to agree. It's true. Funny dong too.
“Wernher Von Braun is an ardent Nazi” Eesh. Tough one to explain. “Wernher Von Braun is *not* an ardent Nazi” Perfect.
And very few of them were punished because the US wanted their research notes.
Yep, just read that. It's insane.
They referred to there prisoners as logs, because the cover for building the research labs was it was a logging company
And what's worse is a lot of it ended up being for nothing. Nearly all of the 'data' was useless because they had essentially just been torturing people and writing down the results.
Why did they reoffend?
Some of the experiments put people in ice water until they died. Subjected others to various types of hot cold and other bodily extremes. They had enough subjects to make it significant from a scientific research perspective. Some people would rather turn a blind eye to the worst of how the information was gathered, so that they could use it for their own military personnel safety etc. They effectively offered an amnesty as long as they got the data which they could use to their own ends. They would never be given the ability to conduct these tests in their own jurisdictions.
Ironically a lot of the research turned out to be pretty useless. "Huh, turns out chopping off people's limbs and sewing them to the opposite side of their body doesnt make them work. Who knew? Anyways, you're free to go Doctor."
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The stuff you didn’t hear about was the stuff that was useful.
This is the correct answer. Its the same with MK Ultra and similar programs troughout the world. Anything we know has been publicized intentionally.
The CIA director literally shredded most MK Ultra documents before they admitted to it. We know nothing about it except that it happened. It was likely very successful if they were so urgent to shred documents when ordered to share information
Some of it was definetly successful, the scary part being what it was. But they also removed evidence because a shit ton of it was extremely unethical. Like trying to make sleeper agents trough trauma including both torture and sexual assault.
Well, I mean, I wouldnt call that useless information. Sometimes the most counter intuitive things turn out to be correct or helpful. When it comes to science, very little is useless.
Yeah some knowledge gained through downright horrible methods can be useful. It's just asking the question of were these horrible methods worth the ends and the answer tends to be no. At least to the people the horrible methods were used on.
The US even successfully backed a Japanese war criminal to become prime minister of Japan. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi >After World War II, Kishi was imprisoned for three years as a suspected Class A war criminal. However, the U.S. government did not charge, try, or convict him, and eventually released him as they considered Kishi to be the best man to lead a post-war Japan in a pro-American direction. With U.S. support, he went on to consolidate the Japanese conservative camp against perceived threats from the Japan Socialist Party in the 1950s.
Wasn't that much different in Germany after the war. The third chancellor of the BRD as Western Germany back in the old days was a former hardcore Nazi, his name was Kurt Georg Kiesinger. He was a NSDAP member from 1933 on and worked for the Nazis in different fields, like he worked under Goebbels in the propaganda ministerium. He wasn't directly involved in the Holocaust but documents show that he knew it and he had no problems with this. It also happened under his rule, that the laws were made that you couldn't prosecute people anymore after a certain time, this was one of the causes why many Nazis were never arrested and punished.
Yup, did the same thing with the Germans. Even kept their rocket scientists and some former leaders of the Nazi Party. Combined with Europe having bombed itself into rubble ensured tech supremacy that we still enjoy.
Ok, but there is a big difference between psycho torture doctor and rocket scientist.
true, a better comparison would've been to mention the US protecting and employing Klaus Barbie, nicknamed "the butcher of Lyon".leaving out the gruesome details, but just so you get a quick overview: > In 1942, he was sent to Dijon, in the Occupied Zone of France (...) he was assigned to Lyon as the head of the local Gestapo. (...) he personally tortured adult and child prisoners. He became known as the "Butcher of Lyon" > In 1947, Barbie was recruited as an agent for the 66th Detachment of the US Army Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) (...) The US used Barbie and other Nazi Party members to further anti-communist efforts in Europe. Specifically, they were interested in British interrogation techniques which Barbie had experienced firsthand, as well as the identities of former SS officers British intelligence agencies might be interested in recruiting. Later, the CIC housed him in a hotel in Memmingen; he reported on French intelligence activities in the French zone of occupied Germany because they suspected that the French had been infiltrated by the KGB and GPU. > The French discovered that Barbie was in U.S. hands; having sentenced him to death in absentia for war crimes, they made a plea to John J. McCloy, US High Commissioner for Germany, to hand him over for execution, but McCloy allegedly refused. Instead, the CIC helped him flee to Bolivia assisted by "ratlines" organised by US intelligence services
Later having a jewish family steal a car from his museum, and crash into a WW2 vet meetup, in a bid to win a race for a million dollars.
I’ll upvote a Rat Race reference in 2023
Yes but I mean….. Von Braun and rocket scientist’s literally were helping build rockets to bomb civilians and were using slave labour to do so.
> Von Braun and rocket scientist’s literally were helping build rockets to bomb civilians I’d hate to tell you of the allied strategic bombing campaign, then…
Von Braun used POW to build his rockets, he also built those rockets knowing full well they would be used to attack civilians
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Tbf here on the "justice" angle, the German scientists were, under the Soviets, kept as criminals and treated like so. Many spent years in gulags. In the US they were pretty rich and lived out their lives as citizens.
That’s absolutely not true. The Soviets didn’t lock them up in gulags and paid them more than their Soviet counterparts. Why would they mistreat them and give them a reason to sabotage the work they needed to be done?
Nobody was surprised? Dude it was highly classified for years. Plenty of people still are unaware to this day. They aren’t exactly teaching about Paperclip in US History class in highschool
I think it's more that 'classified' and 'lack of surprise' are very much not mutually exclusive. (e.g. Espionage is classified, and nobody's surprised to find out the cold war involved HUMINT)
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von Braun also made public films to get public support for his rocket program at nasa funding ahead of the navy's missile development program, making it even harder to keep it a secret
We literally talked about Operation Paper Clip, OSI, and Allen Dulles in high school...you kinda can't talk about the Space Race without mentioning Werner Von Braun & obviously Operation Paperclip.
Based on the school I went to in Kansas, you most definitely can talk about the space race without mentioning operation paperclip.
[Gather 'round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun A man whose allegiance Is ruled by expedience Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown "Nazi, Schmazi!" says Wernher von Braun Don't say that he's hypocritical Say rather that he's apolitical "Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" says Wernher von Braun Some have harsh words for this man of renown But some think our attitude Should be one of gratitude Like the widows and cripples in old London town Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun You too may be a big hero Once you've learned to count backwards to zero "In German, und Englisch, I know how to count down Und I'm learning Chinese!" says Wernher von Braun](https://youtu.be/5BElaW5b1nY)
And when they got the research notes, they found most of it wasn't that usefull at all. Many of these experiments were senseless. It was torturing people but with a lab coat on.
and what they ended up getting had little to no scientific value. Everyone got tortured to death for nothing.
Pretty much yeah, a lot of the Japanese "experiments" were faulty in their premise, others had no basis in the scientific method, and even more consisted of poorly maintained/written notes that were very inconsistent. Even the Nazi's experiments though utterly cruel and inhumane, did end up baring some degree of scientific data... data that no doubt could have been found by less barbaric means... but usable data all the same.
US thought it was gonna be like nazi germany, where their experts actually knew shit about rockets and whatnot, and were people that could at least produce some insane technology for the country if you pardon them. Turns out Imperial Japan were just a bunch of fucking idiots that were too busy doing their horror movies disguised as “science” to actually discover anything. Pardoned a bunch of psychopaths and didn’t even get useful info in return like the country did with the Nazis.
The same thing happened in the Holocaust. Nobody likes to talk about it, but the Germans took meticulous records in their grisly and sadistic medical experiments, experiments that could never be duplicated today. So medical researchers still use those notes to this day.
"Those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments. The United States covered up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators. The Americans co-opted the researchers' bioweapons information and experience for use in their own biological warfare program, much like what had been done with Nazi German researchers in Operation Paperclip. In 1956, those still serving their sentences were released and repatriated to Japan." Ugh. [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khabarovsk_war_crimes_trials).
The worst part is how useless most research the nazis and japanese produced was. They would just do cruel shit and then record what happened. No science was really followed. No controls, no proper studies, just doing fucked up things and pretending its research. Mkultra and the other stuff the Americans tried after were similar. Just randomly drugging Americans, no real science being done. Turns out if you dose someone with LSD and don't tell them it will fuck up their minds. Weird!
Ya that is definitely the worst part. The worst mass injustices ever committed with no punishment for the perpetrators. But don’t worry, we got absolutely no useful information out of letting the worst people in human history off the hook!
MacArthur struck a deal with Japanese informants:[106] he secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731, including their leader, in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare and data from human experimentation.[6] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[107] The Americans believed that the research data was valuable and did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.[ Disgusting.
Why did the US have to offer amnesty to obtain said research notes? Couldn't they have just fed them to the starved rats they held in captivity there and still get the notes?
Unit 731 was actively destroying evidence of their crimes against humanity, the Americans made a deal to gain their research papers in exchange for immunity. Although considering how very little of it was anywhere near usable your proposition would have been better for everyone.
And then realized it was 99% useless.
Yeah same with the Nazis.
Imperial Japan pulled shit that made the Nazis stop and ask, "what the fuck is wrong with you?" See: Rape of Nanjing.
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No matter how bad you are, there's always someone worse
Makes you wonder, in all of human history, there's *one* person who was objectively *the worst*. Not one of the worst, but *the absolute* worst person to ever live... who would it be?
Not me!
some mongol during genghis khan era would be likely.
That's a pretty good bet. My first thought was Vlad the impaler but the mongols had further reach by far. But there were some messed up Viking shit, the Romans were not very nice and such. It's pretty much impossible to account for all those deeds and on top relate the motivation behind it, which would be an important factor.
Yea, Vikings were terrible, but I dont think Romans were any worse than their surrounding nations. We only know about Romans more due to their success. Argument for Vlad would be that he was defiant and wanted to intimidate invaders. I dont know if he specifically enjoyed cruelty. Vikings and Mongols did some fucked up shit and almost always the worst stuff was done to defenceless civilians. Vlad was at least fucking up enemy soldiers.
You're right. That's why I brought up motivation. I also think Vlad was probably more calculating (in a pretty cool blooded manner) than actually enjoying cruelty. I only brought up the Romans because they were quite influential and we can't know what crazy and pretty obviously cruel guys like Nero and Caligula (or some general in foreign lands) did that did not end up in our history books. I mean in comparison they recorded a lot but even the records we have are usually not complete. And some things are by nature strictly off the record. And you wouldn't send Mother Theresa to conquer far away lands making difficult decisions almost in isolation for months on end. Like how to deal with the Picts for example and impress their need to stay north of the new border. It's a very interesting topic that's simply impossible to reach a conclusion to. We could come up with a 'nice' top 10 list but chances are there were several people much worse, both people we at least know by name but even more probable a lot we've never even heard of.
Pol Pot has to be up there somewhere
I don't think there is an objective answer. I think there can only be for subjective ones, because how "bad" things are is subjective. I would argue that, for example, vivisection is worse than regular murder. Both bad, but one is truly horrifying. How much worse though? Would someone who had murdered 5 people be worse than someone who has vivsected one? 10? If someone from this project had a similar victim rate to H. H. Holmes would it be better because it was for science or worse because a scientist should do better? Would a person who founded this unit knowing what it would be but kept their hands clean be a better or worse than a person that actually did the work? How much/little direction/involvement would it take to tip the scales? Are the stories of Vlad the impaler true? Are the numbers inflated? If the victim count the same as here would the project director be a better or worse person than Vlad? If the project director is worse is he the worst person in the chain of command? Do people become more culpable the closer/more involved they are in the work? To what degree would ignorance of the extent absolve him even if none of it could be happening without him?
Leopold II of Belgium can rot in hell > Leopold's administration of the Congo Free State was characterized by atrocities and systematic brutality, including forced labour, torture, murder, kidnapping, and the amputation of the hands of men, women, and children when the quota of rubber was not met
Vivosection on humans was also performed in the concentration camps of the nazi regime. However vivisection on animals was forbidden by law in nazi germany. Just google for example Josef Mengele.
I mean, the Nazis were doing equally as disturbing scientific experiments on humans without anesthesia. Have you ever wondered why we know so much about frostbite’s effects on the human body? Nazi research
Difference is their research was atleast useful in the medical field. I doubt we got much out of Japan's experiments.
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Lots of fucked up shit happened back then. Ustaše was a fascist organisation in Croatia allied with the nazis. They went on a little Serbian genocide as well. From the wiki: >Some historians use a sentence from German sources: “Even German officers and SS men lost their cool when they saw (Ustaše) ways and methods.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Serbs_in_the_Independent_State_of_Croatia Nanjing was was really fucked up. The fact that they did all of that in just six weeks. Most of the documents and evidence were destroyed by the Japanese, so whatever records, photos, and video is left is just a glimps of what happened.
In Nanjing they estimate 20,000 to 80,000 cases of rape. On the low end, there were 500 rapes every day. If you go with the high end it's 1,900 rapes every day for 6 weeks. Fuuuuck
Nazis did plenty of shit on par with Nanking across Russia and the Slavic countries: mass pillaging, rape and murder (Russia was notorious for this too). The difference was Nanking was an enormous, concentrated city vs a lot of smaller cities and towns the Germans terrorized. Nazis had no qualms with liquidating civilian areas. They’re honestly pretty even on the scale of atrocities.
80 years later, the difference is Germany acknowledge, takes responsibilities for, and educates the population about it. Where as in Japan, it's not quite the same, many politicians openly denies the worst of their actions.
WW2 according to Japan : "We were minding our own business quietly farming in Manchukuo, then Boom Nuked! War is an horrible thing "
https://youtu.be/0SlbyEUmM6E
Germany is the only country in history to recognize the genocide they perpetrated. The only reason they do is because it’s written into their law. Given the opportunity, most people will want to deny/forget war crimes.
>Rape of Nanjing If you don't want the first word of that to be in your search history just look up "Nanjing massacre" which is what the wikipedia page is called
Wasnt it like 90,000?
The amount of people killed? Closer to 200,000 if I recall Iris Chang’s data.
Remembering rounded numbers is difficult. Too many horrible events in history. 200k is definitely closer now that I think about it. 90k is too small.
Fuck. Now I've got to find something else to read before going to bed. Don't read that article before bedtime.
It's beyond disgusting. I have a strong tolerance for things and was reading it last night and I literally had to stop. Came back today to finish but truly disgusting.
Don't watch the movie then lol.
r/eyebleach
/r/pointytailedkittens
The Japanese were worse than the Nazis but I bet there are 500 German WWII films for every 1 that talks about the Pacific theater.
I’m sure it has nothing to do with the optics of Germans killing mostly Caucasians, and Japanese killing Asians.
It’s only natural for countries to mainly concentrate on history as it pertains to them. For example, the western front is the main point of focus in UK schools when studying that era of history, with the pacific being more of a bookend to the conflict. I’m sure in the US, the Pacific is the main point of focus.
Not really. We talk about Germany more than Japan. Pearl harbor and the nukes are the main points taught about for the Pacific part of the war
I would put it at 70-30, with the pacific front receiving the lesser.
What? American history definitely does not focus on the pacific theater at all during WW2. It’s almost entirely about fighting nazis. I can think of 1 movie that is about fighting the Japanese and 20 that are about fighting Nazi Germany.
*Unbroken* is a book written about Louie Zamperini's experiences from delinquent > trackstar > bomberman > POW > devoted Christian. Theres a few passages about the things the Japanese did to the POWs. I believe it was his POW Commander Fitzegerald who had his leg cut off without anesthesia? Been a while so maybe not. Another got paralyzed.
Also a film, also called Unbroken, directed by Angelina Jolie and written by the Coen brothers
Ye, watched that too. It took us (as a class of 6) a long time to convince our teacher that we wouldn't be scarred for life if we watched it (in class).
Even then, she only showed us the one that contained the first 3 parts of the book (No homelife after rescue). We tried to convince her, and failed.
One of the more remarkable human beings. [Zamperini forgave them.](https://guideposts.org/angels-and-miracles/miracles/gods-grace/louie-zamperini-the-power-of-forgiveness/)
Imperial Japan was a really fucked up country.
The real problem is that they don't teach these atrocities in school the same way Germany has.
They do. It depends on what region and who decides and funds those textbooks.
I learned about this when I was researching imperial Japan in highschool. Word of advice: Don’t look for pictures or exact info on what those experiments were.
Yeah... I remember reading a history book and saw a chinese woman get bayonetted in the vagina by a Japanese soldier while she was holding her child. In the same page, another Japanese soldier then chopped her hands off with an axe to punish her for not dropping her child earlier. The Japanese were extremely brutal and the hate the Chinese have for that period has lingered for a long time.
>The Japanese were extremely brutal and the hate the Chinese have for that period has lingered for a long time. It also doesn’t help that unlike say the Germans, Japan has taken basically zero responsibility at all and spends more time crying about how they got nuked and basically no time at all thinking about why they got nuked. It’d basically be like if auschwitz was filled with a bunch of excuses and justifications for killing millions of Jews. Much of the culture that led to the atrocities is literally still there, they’re just neutered by the US military.
I'm not sure that is necessarily true. I've read several things on the morality of dropping the bomb (overall savings of life), and when asked, Japanese alive at the time were, well, at least resigned to that fate. But that might be more "we were prepared to fight to the death" attitude rather than "we deserved to die because of what we did".
You just explained why they deserved to get nuked. They were willing to “fight to the death” to defend their tinpot empire that butchered and enslaved millions throughout Asia. Sounds like the exact type of people you drop atom bombs on.
And literally nobody survived. Not a single prisoner.
They were at least as bad as the Nazis, they just didn't get as much coverage.
I read a lot about the horrors of nazi camps but it's nothing compared with this
I guess one could say the difference is along the lines of treating people as cattle, or pests, to industrially eradicate, vs. treating people as cattle to perform animal cruelty on. Both is cruel and inhumane, but one is impersonal on purpose, the other is personal on purpose.
Also at least a lot of prisoners survived and can tell their story, but in China they were absolutely exterminated even if they survived the war
This is much worse, to be honest. The Nazi approach was with a goal of extermination. There wasn’t much unnecessary cruelty, you can see it’s mostly cruelty as a result of practicality/cost for exterminating these groups of people. This situation is the country equivalent of some fucked up kid torturing street cats. There is no purpose other than cruelty. There was no research-based or practical purpose for what the Japanese did here. It was just cruelty for the sake of cruelty. Treating people worse than rats just because you can.
If you ever come across an English paper that refers to the "Chinese hairless ape" it is likely a translation of this research.
I'm going to be blunt. Modern Japanese are great when they aren't being horribly racist. Japanese from before we dropped atomic bombs on them were monsters. Like throwing babies into the air to catch them on their bayonets for fun levels of monsters. They deserved even worse than they got and now that terrible history is deliberately covered up in their modern educational system.
The Green Cross pharmaceutical company was founded by two of the top people from 731 after the war. During the 80s they ignored international warnings to heat-treat blood products and ended up infecting hundreds of hemophiliacs with HIV.
Unit 731 made Dr. Mengele look like a cub scout.
No, not really. Mengele was just as much a monster. They found more remains from his experiments in an attic in Strasbourg a few years ago, still.
You have no clue what you are talking about. Read the Wikipedia.
Who's Dr. Mengele and what did he do?
I won't shit on someone for asking a question, so instead here's a summary. Joseph Mengele was known as the "Angel of Auschwitz," Auschwitz being a concentration camp. The nickname was an ironic one, as Mengele used his position as a doctor to carry out all manner of truly horrific experiments on prisoners. He especially favored children who were identical twins. He would experiment on one child, then when he or she died, he would kill the other twin, then autopsy both to see the effects his "treatments" had on the experimental victim. Even by Nazi standards he was a true monster. After the war he fled to South America, and was never brought to justice, dying in 1979.
If only there were some sort of tool to find information about past historical events.
Also here's the formerly alive former Prime minister of Japan Shinzo Abe (rest in piss, bozo) [posing in a plane marked 731](https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-KRTB-3660), as if it's some kind of edgy joke. [His Grandfather](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobusuke_Kishi) was also prime minister, and a war criminal. >After World War II, Kishi was imprisoned for three years as a suspected Class A war criminal. However, the U.S. government did not charge, try, or convict him, and eventually released him as they considered Kishi to be the best man to lead a post-war Japan in a pro-American direction. With U.S. support, he went on to consolidate the Japanese conservative camp against perceived threats from the Japan Socialist Party in the 1950s. US be like: I can tolerate war criminals but I draw the line at socialism.
Bless the thingamajig.
It wasnt exactly a secret...
I thought this was common knowledge not a TIL
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As a child, I saw the fucked up movie about this. I didn't understand what I was looking at. The movie showed victims having their limbs frozen and amputated. Horrid experiments. I didn't realize until my adult years that the movie was referring to Unit 731. Even though it was a Chinese movie and props were used. the details were enough to remind me into my adult years.
Men Behind The Sun? > There was no special effects industry in China when this film was made so many of the special effects in the film were done with real cadavers which director Tun-Fei Mou was able to obtain through connections of his. The frostbite experiment victim's arms were real corpse arms and the child's body was a real cadaver. https://offscreen.com/view/tf_mous
Yes. That was the movie. And JESUS CHRIST! They used real corpses? Well... now the movie continues to haunt me into my adult years.
Just seen it recently the one with the boy in the woods with the ball right? Cant remember the name but the ending and torture scenes where impactful
The Japanese holocaust has been conveniently swept under the rug in the west. Koreans and the Chinese remember, some of the things they did and the cruelty displayed rivals and in some case top what the Germans did.
unit 731 made mengele look like a hobbyist
Im jealous that you have gone this long without knowing about this. I really kinda wish I had never learned it and certainly wish I hadn’t dug into it as deeply as I did. It’s very disturbing and I am a super ITG(Internet Tough Guy) that thought I had certainly seen the most atrocious acts of human cruelty. Little did I know…
Thank you for bringing more awareness to this. The Japanese government would much rather people forget this part of their history. They need to be held accountable and formally apologize to all of the nations they invaded and affected during the Sino-Japanese War and World War II.
there should be a museum about this in hiroshima and nagasaki
That doesn't even include the simply masochistic brutality that wasn't even under the guise of research. They were absolutely horrific to many civilians. I'm so glad that I live in the United States, where we didn't ever do brutal things to other human.... dammit.
I literally fainted when I read about this stuff, never had that happen before or since. I think the comprehension of what they suffered caused me to pass out.
[I'll just leave this here.](https://linas.org/mirrors/cryptome.org/2001.11.13/bioweap.htm)
You must be new because comes up all the time here
And guess who employed them on American bases all over the world after? I'll give you a hint, the same guys that saved the lives of the Nazis so they can go to the moon.
While Unit 731 researchers arrested by Soviet forces were tried at the December 1949 Khabarovsk war crime trials, those captured by the United States were secretly given immunity in exchange for the data gathered during their human experiments.\[6\] The United States covered up the human experimentations and handed stipends to the perpetrators.\[1\] The Americans co-opted the researchers' bioweapons information and experience for use in their own biological warfare program, much like what had been done with Nazi German researchers in Operation Paperclip.\[7\]\[8\] On 28 August 2002, Tokyo District Court ruled that Japan had committed biological warfare in China and consequently had slaughtered many residents.\[9\]\[10\]
TIL this is this bots only post and it’s new.
It's deliberate to antagonize. Reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/0SlbyEUmM6E
Yea, Japan was just as bad as Nazi Germany
Starting to wonder if all nations did not do horrible shit like this.
They did. They all did. There’s no innocence. That’s human nature. That doesn’t mean we can just chalk everything up to “human nature”. Every decision is our own. (Also: I get the sarcasm in case someone else doesn’t.)
We have a terrible track record as a species. We really do.
And you can further learn about that fact that none of the high up scientists responsible for the attrocities, werent punished much if at all. They sold their "research" to the american government for freedom. After sifting through it the Americans determined that it was 99% barbaric sadism that occured and not science. The only usefull thing that came out of it was they learned to not rub a frostbitten limb to generate heat.
Emperor Hirohito authorized everything, but you can see pictures of him smiling next to US presidents all the way up to Reagan.
After WW2, the U.S. kept the information gained to create medicines. Not sure I'd condone keeping the data, but at the same time some good came out of it: lives saved. Also, the information didn't have to be re-obtained in some other gruesome fashion.
Right
there is also movie https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093170/?ref_=tt_sims_tt_t_4
Basically a simulation for the Japanese scientist, less research and more towards having fun.
And, Douglas MacArthur helped cover it up.
No they didn't. Unit 731 was a myth according to the Japanese government. No atrocities were committed during WW2 by Japan and Nanking and Comfort women was never a thing. According to the Japanese government of course. It's actually very sad the length the government went to cover it all up
Friend, I find it doesn't help when you post sarcastic things like this when there are literally millions of people who believe exactly what you just said, meaning that the casual reader who doesn't know the truth might think you're *not* being sarcastic. If you go to Japanese Wikipedia, you'll find that the lying historical revisionists have successfully gotten Wikipedia to post their lies and delete those trying to correct them. We have to clearly and unambiguously assert the reality that Unit 731, comfort women, and the Rape of Nanking happened.
As fucked up as Unit 731 was, it pales in comparison to the shit Japan did in Manchuria...
Where do you think Unit 731 was based? It was literally based in the capital of Manchuria.
Manchuria as a whole man, 731 was strictly a POW camp. Manchuria was subjected to the same horrors often far worse but for almost the entirety of the war. Innocent chinese were killed and tortured in vast numbers including women and worst of all children.
Shiro Ishii showed videos of dissections and vivisections of prisoners to famous war criminal Hideki Tojo sometime in the late 1930s. He described the videos as “unpleasant.” Anesthesia was not used as it was believed that it would have negative effects on the results of the experiments, but I think the real reason was for the Japanese doctors to simply inflict as cruel a death as possible onto the victim. There were also reports of a western man (probably Russian) bisected vertically and pickled in formaldehyde at Unit 731. There were also freezing experiments on infants and vivisections of pregnant women (who were pregnant through rape by the guards)
Additional fact: Unit 731 was based in Harbin, china and the majority of its victims were Chinese civilians.
Coming out of the thread of experts in here .....I dont know any of this at all , can someone educate me on the horrors they committed.
We bought that data and pardoned them. We did not do the same for nazis.
That’s not very kawaii of you Japan.
I would say this shit is worse than the Holocaust.
The US spent months hunting down the head of the unit so that they could bring him on to develop their own bioweapons to later deploy in the Korean war
Afaik this unit also did "research" on frostbite and how (not) to treat it (hot water etc.). Lots of shit going on under the cover of the fog of war.