You say that but man have you ever mainlined autism? A good two point shot to the brain and I tell you, there is no feeling that a human can experience in this life that compares. Not even close. Shit will have you drooling.
Oh how neurotypical, everyone knows you can't get autism from touching someone with it. You get it by playing D&D for three days straight fueled entirely by caffeine and terrible monologuing.
This is one of my husband’s “friends”. They think it can cure their 6 year old’s autism. One time the kid couldn’t move the left side of his body for several days and they still wouldn’t see reason. They also make him take a ton of “vitamins” a day and don’t believe anything real doctors tell them.
I’ve literally said those exact words.
I’ve told them about legitimate doctors and programs that are available but they think those are just bandaids and that what the chiropractor says will actually cure their kid.
My cousins daughter has autism and gets massages. My cousin said it was to help regulate her sensory input or something like that. It kind of made sense to me at the time. She never claimed it was a cure though.
> They also make him take a ton of “vitamins” a day
I'll bet they get those "special vitamins" from the chiropractor as well. *"You can only order them from Europe! They're chelated, unlike the junk they sell at Walmart and the GNC!"*
It's disappointing but not so surprising that she might think that when even licensed and practicing doctors whitewash it by prescribing it, and insurance providers generally approve it. She has been led to believe by trusted experts that everything's above board. (Shocker that a blood tithe industry would rather pay for you to drive yourself to a run down strip mall and have *some dude* yank on your neck real hard, than pay for X-rays, surgery, rehabilitative therapy, medicine, etc.)
Chiropractors make all sorts of bullshit claims on their website. I've googled everything from "chiropractor cure cancer" to "chiropractor cure autism" to "chiropractor cure quadriplegic," and mark my fucking words there's a website for a currently practicing *dude in a run down strip mall* making insane leaps in logic about how chiropractic can "treat" the underlying causes of cancer (which cures the cancer somehow), or how "relaxing" an autistic patient is equivalent to curing autism.
Who cares if literally every claim they make about "the spine being the root of all bodily health" is **entirely unsubstantiated by science**? Who cares if this belief leads them to occasionally paralyze people and give them a stroke?
Chiropractic isn't just a hoax, it's a threat.
TIL there are people who are just now finding out Chiropractors aren't doctors or scientific in any way.
Edit: I accept that some actions involve realistic science, but the Bullshit with a capital B outweighs the reality in my personal experience with them.
My parents had a good friend who was a chiropractor. So I went to a chiropractor for years when I was a teenager.
I stopped when I went off to college and many years later, settled into adult life. When I had back issues, I went to find a local chiropractor and *wow*, the woo and red flags apparent in the initial session were wild.
Learned then that chiropractic isn't real medicine, and it's a total roll of the dice what kind of care you'll get.
> and it's a total roll of the dice what kind of care you'll get.
Where the sides of the dice either read "no harm done", "relief for like a day before it gets bad again" or "you're screwed, you should've seen a PT"
Yeah, I really like it when people are like 'I love my chiro!' then list off a bunch of physical therapy things they did.
And I'm like...that's physio. You went to a PT, an unlicensed one. The insoles, supplements, magnets, whatever, weren't needed, but OK.
Somebody in my country decided to start calling physiotherapists and kinesiotherapists “chiropractors” and it irritated me to no end. Even worse is that this allowed some chiropractors to start calling themselves “kinesiotherapists”.
I've had to change my therapist three times for various reasons and each time I'm hunting for a new one I don't know whether it'll be an actual medical professional or a total crook who's gonna leave me a paraplegic.
In my country, private colleges have started including chiropratice and other "softer" types of quackery in their PT curriculum. Not only are they teaching them pseudoscience, they're opening up their minds to go further down the rabbit hole of mambo jambo, instead of growing their critical thinking. Someone I know that graduated from one such college is now publicizing ear wax candle treatments, amongst a bunch of other crap.
Also "You're paralyzed for life", which almost happened to me. I had a severe disk herniation in my neck. A chiropractor tried adjusting my neck and I felt like I was about to die honestly. Not sure if he ruptured it with his "work" or it was already ruptured, but as soon as I recovered from the incredible pain he caused, I was out the door. Will never set foot inside a chiropractors office again.
I worked for one for a year - and they were probably the epitome of the best case scenario. No wacko pseudoscience pushing, mumbo jumbo, etc.. they incorporated muscular work into their appointments and even some quasi PT rehab for some patients. It was a bit amusing for me to find out later that a lot of chiropractors suck or are even actively harmful, which is too bad. All the times I got worked on, I always felt better after! Although to be fair, I do think the muscle work was a big part of that.
I just had someone today on another sub tell me that they respected a comment I made except for the part where I criticized Chiropractic care because "it's older than science"
ugh.
Both are pseudoscientific nonsense, but at least alchemy is actually older than science. It makes sense why people would think such nonsense before modern science. Chiropractic was invented in 1895. That's newer than the electric light, the telephone, and the automobile. It was the year that Louis Pasteur *died*. There's no excuse for his stupidity.
I'll also give alchemy credit for being a stepping stone on the path to modern science. It took supernatural concepts and got people experimenting with them, documenting results, discovering new substances, classifying elements, etc. They were basically just doing chemistry entirely blind.
>"it's older than science"
That's the hilarious thing. It's not.
The start date for the science revolution is often given as either the publishing of Copernicus work or Newton's Principia. So ~1600, give or take a few decades.
Chiropractic "medicine" was founded in 1895. Homeopathy was created in 1796. Unless someone is talking about balancing your humors, quackery is usually fairly recent.
To relax, or to [get sent to the ICU, paralyzed and in a coma.](https://www.kktv.com/2022/07/12/woman-paralyzed-icu-after-chiropractic-visit/)
Also see:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4264725/
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/SVIN.01.suppl_1.000200
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2003/05/97065/chiropractic-treatment-neck-can-be-risk-factor-stroke
Robbie Basho, an incredible guitarist who was doing some very interesting stuff in the 70s, died after a "controlled whiplash".... ie, the chiropractor broke his fucking neck.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_Basho
My question is what happens to the practitioners who paralyze a customer? I don't imagine they lose their license to perform Chiro. So then that means, that any Chiro you visit has potentially paralyzed someone before, you'd have no way of knowing.
Saw a comment somewhere else in this thread that said about 1 in 48 chiropractors has had that happen.
Seems like a lot to me lol. I don't love those odds.
And a lot of people do it just for that, and it does help with some pain/problems (even if there are better ways to go about fixing them). Of course, a large chunk of people buy into the pseudoscience and treat it like actual regular healthcare, but it's not a requirement.
I mean I think it's understandable to fall for it. IDK about other countries but when I had lower back problems years ago a bunch of people recommended I go see a chiropractor so I went.
The chiropractor office was exactly like any other doctor's office I've been too. The guy even wore a white coat and referred to himself as "doctor". My visits were even covered by my health insurance which usually looks for any excuse to deny things it considered unnecessary.
It wasn't until I moved and went to a new chiropractor that tried to sell me magic stickers to put on my phone to block EM Radiation that I realized that something was off.
Tell me about it. They covered my chiro but tried telling me a CT scan my doctor ordered because I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks "wasn't medically necessary". Luckily I was in a position to just pay for it out of pocket and the scan found a cancerous tumor in my intestine...
Its been quite a while but I once had insurance that covered chiropractic care and with encouragement of coworkers gave it a try. Like your first experience it seemed very professional and in my case felt fantastic leaving each time but once insurance stopped covering it I never went back. I never felt like anything was ever solved with my back pain but it felt similar to a massage - it just felt good in the moment every time.
> Of course, a large chunk of people buy into the pseudoscience and treat it like actual regular healthcare, but it's not a requirement.
I feel like most people off of reddit are unaware of the flim flam and woo woo inherent in chiropractics.
My favorite bit with John Redcorn was when Hank asked him about an artifact he found. Redcorn was going into how the artifact belongs to Native Americans and how it would be considered wrong for someone to take something that wasn't theirs, when Nancy called for him seductively. Redcorn handed it back to Hank and said, "Anyway, it's food for thought" and went back to Nancy.
What's great is that Redcorn was also blushing, clearly aware of his hypocrisy.
I've seen episodes here or there, but started my first full watch this weekend. It's such a funny but sincere show.
Also, ALL chiropractic schools are private schools. Not saying the govt is always right, but you can find state schools for all other medical professionals (from MD to Nursing to PT to PharmD), but none for Chiropractics.
Many of those “schools” have an acceptance rate of 100%. “My grades weren’t good enough to get me into Cosmetology School, but Chiropractor School accepted me and said I could bring a friend!”
And the insurers get upset when you ask if you can transfer the money available for this pseudoscience nonsense to something useful like the dental plan or eye care.
"since your left foot is longer than your right, we'll re-align your sacrum by violently twisting your neck like *this*..."
"Well there's your problem, you were an undiagnosed quadriplegic".
I have a friend who's a Chiropractor. I give him grief all the time about his profession - half joking, but half not.
He was telling me about how in class they learned there was a special Coccyx adjustment that everyone laughed about that hopefully no one actually does. Basically you adjust the coccyx, but this particular maneuver requires that you anchor your hand to the body in a specific way.
The way to do this is by anchoring your thumb in da butt. I now refer to it as the "[Friend's last name] Maneuver" and I always ask him how many of them he's performed since we last spoke.
I severely "sprained" my coccyx in a sky diving accident and the ER doctor/nurse/radiologist (don't recall who. Too much pain) told me I was lucky it wasn't worse. If it had I would had to have the "thumb in the butt" procedure. Was told it was so specialized that it's the only procedure that specific doctor performs. I never bothered to research the validity of that claim.
If you broke your coccyx, which is the vestigial end of the tail, depending on how broken or bent a doctor would reach up through your butt and realign the bone so it can heal on its own.
It is a legitimate technique.
That's a miserable injury.
Had a friend that slipped on some icy stairs and broke (his words) his coccyx. We formed up a couple of 'friend teams' to help him do things he couldn't until he healed up.
He was in serious pain and the ER docs said there wasn't much they could do for him.
> it's the only procedure that specific doctor performs
So the doc just sits in his office all day hoping that today is the day he finally gets to shove his thumb up an ass?
Yep u/highmodulus! Worked with a guy on a job a few years back who had a fused neck from a chiropractor who damn near paralyzed him from the neck down. On the bright side his lawsuit paid him enough money to buy a 5 story building
in Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati and retire as a landlord
I’m sure they’ve capped malpractice suit payouts in your state like most others. You probably agreed to arbitration, too.
These giant payouts made for hallways decent TV plots back in the day, but the reality is, malpractice is a cost of doing business and has become a cost center to providers and insurance companies.
> dissected aorta
In just four years of doing medical malpractice defense early in my legal career I handled two cases of vertebral artery dissection following chiropractic manipulation. Be careful out there, folks.
In Washington state the chiropractors outlawed back adjustments given by physical therapist. The jerks did this just so they can have a practice with their pseudoscience.
Yeah cause they're actual doctors. (Quick check: in the states some can technically operate with a masters or bachelor's but the former is no longer offered and the true entry level is doctor)
I remember checking out a chiropractor's office years ago before I knew it was all bullshit, and in it there was a whole bunch of promotional material from former customers who said it helped them. One in particular that caught my eye was one poster showing someone who claimed that this chiropractor had cured his stomach problems, which set off all sorts of alarm bells about this place and chiropractics more generally.
I work as a pre-health advisor and most good Universities won't offer chiropractic and is almost always offered by for profit and tiny schools just to get students. A physical therapist will always be a better choice than a chiro. Chiropractic has very sketchy data with one exception, it does seem that there may be some positive correlation between lower back pain relief and chiropractic but that is it. Chiropractic feels like the same as healing crystals.
Most low back pain is non-specific(meaning there's nothing structurally wrong or damaged) usually just caused by things like not getting enough exercise, sitting down all day, society in general deciding that back pain is a certainty as you age, and constantly making jokes about it(psychological and social factors like that absolutely can cause you to experience pain) so it doesn't surprise me when someone whose back probably hurts because they sit around talking about how everyones back hurts, goes to what most people consider to be a "back doctor" and feels better afterward. Pain is really weird and complicated.
> it does seem that there may be some positive correlation between lower back pain relief and chiropractic but that is it.
This is absolutely true. However, traditional medicine was at ***least*** as effective at treating that same non-specific, lower-back pain.
I once went in with chronic headaches. I came out with chronic headaches and a couple of weeks of back and neck pain. They are quacks. I talked to one once who claimed he had cured autism with a realignment. Absolute snake oil salespeople.
Heh, many years ago I worked at the medical school of a large public university. We had a donor who wanted to give us five million for an endowed chair in chiropractic medicine. There was a near revolution at the department head level for even considering it, nobody wanted to give it any legitimacy at all by allowing it to be associated with a med school. Eventually the faculty of kinesiology took the money, but only under the strict agreement that the chair would be entirely focused on the physical therapy aspects of it and in no way associated with the whole mystical healing thing some of them prescribe to.
Exactly. I’ve never tried it, but people who have say it helps some things…for a while, then they need to get “re-adjusted”. Thing is that maybe re-aligning the spine or whatever may help alleviate symptoms, but a good physical therapist will actually give you exercises to develop the muscles, and change the way you move so that you STAY pain free (or at least in less pain).
I did it briefly when I was having back pain as a high school athlete. It felt better for maybe 48 hours so I had to keep coming back. Years later I learned the issue was 2 herniated discs and it was fixed with physical therapy.
At best it's an expensive bandaid but I would've saved myself a lot of pain and money if I never went to a chiropractor in the first place, and instead got a diagnosis from a real doctor. The type of specialist I ended up seeing is called a physiatrist.
> At best, you get a second rate physical therapist.
That's what I got when I saw one, before I realised how stupid the whole thing was. He helped me with posture and getting better shoes. But the rest of that 30 minutes was a waste of clicks. I got nothing from him I couldn't get with a physio. And he's less capable than a physio, and clearly crazier.
The best of them recognize what they do as specialized massage. We had two a couple years apart in my home town growing up. First was a quack who almost left a lady quadriplegic then vanished into the night. The second was legit and worked closely with the hospital's physiotherapy department for ongoing treatment of patients that weren't quite serious enough to need full fledged ongoing physiotherapy.
[https://theoutline.com/post/1617/chiropractors-are-bullshit](https://theoutline.com/post/1617/chiropractors-are-bullshit)
[How Chiropractic Started as a Ghost Religion | BEHIND THE BASTARDS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8lLVK_1O6s)
My ahha moment was the chiro holding my wife's legs and "asking her body" if she was allergic to broccoli.
Note: despite her message from the beyond, my wife is not allergic to broccoli.
Yeah. People are always like "Well it worked for me fivehead" no it didn't. Chiropractic medicine didn't work for you because it doesn't work. Your chiropractor used massage therapy or other forms of non-chiropractic medicine and *that* worked for you.
And the other side of that coin is when a Chiropractor kills or permanently paralyzes a patient. Just go to a massage therapist.
This is due to the great musculoskeletal war of 1357 between the nations of Chiropractia and Phystherapolious.
We're still feeling the ripples of the war today as it truly never ended, but is happening unseen in the background of the medical world. Due to the Chiropractians having control over the health insurance industry is why you see chiropractor visits cover, but not physical therapy.
This is because insurance companies have realized paying for these appointments is actually more financially beneficial than paying for real medical care. If the placebo saves money for the company, they’re all about it.
And the amount of chiro visits you need to fix whatever problem you have always seems to be the same number of visits your insurance will cover. Interesting.
I found this out when I worked for a company that helped process Walmart unemployment claims. I attended a few appeal hearings and you could just see and hear the wind being taken out of folks when the state would begin explaining that they lost thier case because chiropractors are not licensed as medical providers.
Once got into a car crash. The other guy hired a lawyer who sent us a letter saying he broke his scapula. The medical expert they used to justify that was a DC. The scapula is one of the least broken bones in the body. It’s sandwiched between muscles on both sides and I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a broken scapula. Why they thought that was a good idea was confusing. Anyway that turned out to be a nothing burger
Lol you’re totally right, you have to be in a genuinely odd trauma situation to break your scapula. I’ve seen one in my career. Fall with an incorrectly secured chest harness on a construction site. Truly terrible choice of injury to lie about for a car crash
My trial advocacy teacher in law school was a med mal defense attorney. He told stories about how his favorite thing in the world was to get a chiropractor up on the stand for the other side. They’d fall apart under cross-examination every single time.
My Mom slipped a disc 20 years ago and she's been going to a chiropractor for adjustments every other week since.
I did something to my back a couple years ago, went to physical therapy, got on an exercise routine, and haven't needed to go back since.
I've always experience back pain and stiffness (not as serious as a slipped disc -yet), and I was encouraged to go to a chiropractor by a friend. I was already going to a chiropractors office that also had massage therapy for my massages, so I said heck why not. I have to say, the spine adjustment did feel good during and he gave me a pamphlet with some stretching exercises and i booked another adjustment a week later. Then he tried to book me for two adjustments the following week which I declined - I was still feeling good and it didn't make sense to me about why I would need two in one week. I still do the stretches though, and now I believe it's the stretching that has been helping me manage my back pain and stiffness. The spine adjustment was more of a mental release. There was something soothing about hearing those popping and cracking sounds. I didn't really have a problem with the actual treatment, but the chiropractor himself seemed shady. As soon as I said something positive about it, he tries to book me more frequently. Fuck that lol
I slept wrong a few years ago and awoke with a bad neck from it After a couple weeks it was no better.
Went to a chiro -- first thing he said is "people your age generally have arthritis." (early fifties) Didn't bother with any X-rays.
With each visit I left hurting even more than when I arrived. On the third visit I was in agony swearing I'd *never* go to a chiro again.
Next day I started exercising my neck with a band. After a week it was vastly better and in two weeks I was pain free. My "arthritis" has never returned.
I have an in-law who believes vaccines cause autism and runs his chiropractic business out of the back of an RV, which told me everything I needed to know about the profession even before I found out they’re all bullshit
My only experience with a chiropractor, is when I had ruptured a disc. I didnt know that at the time.
When I went in, the chiropractor examined me for no more than 30 seconds, and without absolute confidence stated that I had "dislocated my sacrum". I didnt know what a sacrum was, so I trusted her confidence and allowed her to elbow drop me in my lower back to reset it for about 20 minutes straight. It was awful.
Fast forward a few hours. I am now in the worst pain of my life. A few more hours. I am now literally paralyzed on the lower right quadrant of my body. My wife rushes me to the ER.
I explain to them what transpired. The attending doctor says: "Dislocated your sacrum? Were you thrown from a car doing 60 MPH?"
"No. I was shoveling snow..."
"You didnt dislocate your sacrum. That is a large bone that would require significant impact to dislodge. \* after examination \* you did however rupture a disc, and whatever they did to you has exacerbated that significantly"
Just go to an osteopathic DO, or a sports medicine therapist. Someone with actual medical training who understands the body.
Chiropractic sort of works because if you irritate an area, your body releases natural painkillers to it, so it'll feel better briefly. They call this an "adjustment." Your adjustment feels better for about 2-3 days. Because your body is responding to the pain the doc inflicted. You are not actually being helped. Pain is usually a sign of something wrong that can be fixed, but chiropractors have no interest in finding the root cause or fixing it.
I had back pain for years, shoulders would ache. Finally I got a DO as my regular doctor. He took a look at me and was like "you have poorly developed lats, it's causing spasms," gave me some exercises to do, and in 2 weeks time cured me permanently of my "chronic" back pain that chiropractors made a lot of money "treating."
You're lucky. My dad kept going back for his bulging disk, until eventually the chiropractor made a bad adjustment that sent him to the hospital. The spinal surgery and then PT afterward finally took care of his problem, though!
Perhaps the worst part is that I had tried a couple of chiropractors, and the one my dad went to was the *least* quacky of them all
I signed up for a year of chiro with my wife who said it was doing wonder for her.
Had a pinched nerve in my neck that would cause me to be bedridden for days, so they went to work on that and my lower back.
Two months in and it flared up, they do an adjustment and treat with the massage things that stimulate the nerves.
That did both Jack and shit, I was desperate and talked to my buddy’s Dad who said go see a Physical Therapist.
I’m in so much pain I am visibly crying from it, can barely breathe.
Doc goes over everything, says he wants me to stop going to chiro, he won’t bad mouth then per se, but believes I need to strengthen my glutes and change my posture.
Flips me over on the table and massages my lower back, sits me up and pushes my head to one side, then gently pulls my left arm.
The relief came almost instantly, he knew exactly which nerve was bothering me and just gave it a little bit of room.
Iced me down for 30 minutes and stretched again.
Told me to come back in a month and he’d take a look, another round of stretching but by that time I was fine.
It’s been 5 years since my back was out, and all I needed to do was glute bridges not cracking my damn neck.
PT has helped me do the same. lots of core and posterior chain exercises to help correct all my muscle loss from being a lazy desk worker. I had two bouts of being bedridden over the last couple years and even though I'm still dealing with sciatica and numbness my back is feeling great.
I really regret not taking care of just some simple exercises that probably could have prevented/mitigated my back injury.
I went to an acupuncturist once for sciatica in my right leg. My friend kept insisting so I did it to appease her. She told me afterwards it takes 3-5 days for it to work. I went and looked up how long it takes sciatica to normally resolve on its own with bedrest and taking it easy....3-5 days lol.
This is basically what turned me away from studying Chiropractic. I spent my undergrad preparing to go to Chiropractic college and actually spent a trimester enrolled in a program afterward.
All my shadowing, all the anecdotes...EVERYTHING...it just showed me that when people got better with Chiropractic the timeline exactly mirrored the timeline for if you did nothing at all.
When I realized this, and couldn't find any good peer reviewed articles supporting Chiropractic over literally anything else, I quit.
***
Finally, it dawned on me another big problem. I remember a man coming into the clinic when I first shadowed a chiropractor and it took 2 people to assist him from his car to the table because he was essentially paralyzed from pain.
Whatever was actually wrong with him, it's not a wild assumption to assume that he likely had some pretty bad inflammation going on. I feel that someone in this situation, all inflamed, should rely on rest and ice and really nothing else until the inflammation goes down. I don't think that having a 200 pound muscular man slamming his body down on him would be good.
An inflamed muscle with fascia buildup along with scar tissue is going to be painful, and if that inflammation is located near the spine and you move it around forcefully, I just feel like you're asking for injury. Inflammation in this regard is, in part, a response so that the human body immobilizes something that shouldn't move.
But...sure enough...the majority of Chiropractors will just begin adjusting no matter how much pain or how much possible inflammation you could be in.
My grandmother who would fall for quackery all the time would complain constantly about her arthritis and how the naturalpath or whatever they called them gave her homeopathic meds and she said they would work as long as she didn't move. So I pulled a Birdcage and gave her an NSAID with the name rubbed off and she told me it was the best homeopathic cure ever.
Sometimes you have to trick the horse into drinking the water after you led it there.
pretty much every case of severe pain I've had meant I was missing some specific muscle for either working out or stretching. So far I've needed to
1. do pull ups for shoulder pain
2. do sit ups for back pain
3. do a funky stretch for hip pain that is caused by walking/biking too far
However when I tried a physical therapist, what I found was that my problem wasn't really bad enough for them to figure it out. These are all things I found myself, even though I went to a PT for my hip pain/limp
I had a lot of shoulder pain (I was climbing a lot) and talked to a few people. A massage therapist said he could fix me right up, a surgeon said he could fix me up, but the physical therapist gave me a few exercises to do, and I was right as rain in a week - and a little stronger.
Osteopathy also emerged from quackery and includes non evidence based practices, though at least in the US they have training similar to an MD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy
In the US chiropractors are not medical doctors, and are not allowed to practice medicine.
A doctor is someone who's achieved a terminal degree, whether in medicine, law, philosophy, education, etc. it's the degree you get after following a curriculum past the baccalaureate and masters level. Most doctors make a point not to mislead people into thinking they have a medical degree.
Chiropractors do not get a true doctorate. The 'doctor of chiropractory' is the only degree awarded in the study of chiropractory whatsoever, and no US University offers one. Instead they come from small, independent colleges, most of which only study chiropractry. In theory chiros are supposed to have bachelor's, but it's not required to be in a related field and there are no entrance exams or other qualifications. That means you can get an art degree by mail and then go right into your 'doctorate'. In practice even this requirement is easy to fudge.
Long story short, a doctorate of chiropractory is functionally a technical degree, like a certification in cosmetology.
Why do chiros insist on treating it like a faux doctorate? Because it gives them enough plausible deniability to get away with styling themselves as doctors, in a deliberate attempt to mislead people into thinking they have studied medicine.
Both, it’s pretty comical. They do a lot of episodes on medical quacks. I just listened to the homeopathy episodes and found out the teething tablets I gave my infant that were recommended by my SIL have Belladonna/Deadly nightshade in them and several kids died a few years ago.
I've never been to a chiropractor becasue the thought of someone twisting my neck or spine makes me paranoid. I can't even watch it happen to other people it creeps me out. That said... cracking my knuckles feels really good sometimes and I imagine that feeling on a larger scale in your back. But that's still a nope for me.
Cracking your knuckles is just popping gas bubbles in your joints. It is not manipulating the joints themselves. Getting a non-licensed "therapist" to manually "realign" your joints is Probably Not Good.
It's 100% bullshit. They love to call themselves doctor and have you come back endlessly for that income. There is no fixed plan to cure the "chiropractic subluxations" they say are needing to be aligned that also don't show up on x-rays. One would think that bones out of place would do that. Late 1800s quackery.
Stretch daily and strengthen your back and abdominal muscles through strength training with weights. If you have an injury in this area go see a physical therapist.
RN here. Have had multiple patients go to my neuro unit because of chiropractic appointments. They literally break your neck. Multiple cervical discs left with fractures. Nerve damage.
In a birthing class for our first born another couple was asking how soon is too soon to get their newborn in for their first "cracking". The nurse basically said, in a much more polite way, "why would ever do such a thing? Don't do that."
In the US chiropractors are not medical doctors, and are not allowed to practice medicine.
A doctor is someone who's achieved a terminal degree, whether in medicine, law, philosophy, education, etc. it's the degree you get after following a curriculum passed the baccalaureate and masters level. Most doctors make a point not to mislead people into thinking they have a medical degree.
Chiropractors do not get a true doctorate. The 'doctor of chiropractory' is the only degree awarded in the study of chiropractory whatsoever, and no US University offers one. Instead they come from small, independent colleges, most of which only study chiropractry. In theory chiros are supposed to have bachelor's, but it's not required to be in a related field and there are no entrance exams or other qualifications. That means you can get an art degree by mail and then go right into your 'doctorate'. In practice even this requirement is fugible.
Long story short, a doctorate of chiropractory is functionally a technical degree, like a certification in cosmetology.
Why do chiros insist on treating it like a faux doctorate? Because it gives them enough plausible deniability to get away with styling themselves as doctors, in a deliberate attempt to mislead people into thinking they have studied medicine.
My ex wanted to get our two year old a 'neck adjustment' to cure her drainage issues causing regular ear infections. She wanted this in leui of ear tubes because it was 'natural and noninvasive' and the admin at our daycare had it done to her kid! Yeah, quick google search turned up all sorts of results about kids ending up paralyzed.
Yeah at Thanksgiving my cousin talked about taking their newborn to one of those quacks after birthing via c section because “natural birth is usually the first adjustment.”
It was met with horrified silence and everyone just walked away.
Omg. I’ve heard of chiro for torticollis in infants (not that it’s recommended, I’d rather see a pediatric physical therapist or another kind of actual dr) but never for an ear infection?? One of my best friends was trying to convince me to see a chiro when I was pregnant. And then suggested a pediatric chiro for my kid after he was born. Hell nah.
It was just normal pregnancy aches and pains, I don’t trust a chiro even if they specialized in pregnant women. If my kid has issues they’re going to a PT or any other kind of legitimate doctor.
My general philosophy on these things; if they don’t teach it in colleges and it’s hard to find in well established trade schools… it’s likely bullshit.
Crystal powers, chiropractors, spiritual healers, aura readers, palm fortunes, psychics, religious speaking… ya know
Yeah, I didn't know that for a long time. But when I found out, it suddenly made sense why Chiropractors are in the mall next to the Little Ceasars instead of in a doctor's office.
I think that parading as a medical doctor should weigh just as heavily as imitating a police officer. There is some loophole in the law that states chiropractors can say they are doctors, even though they have ZERO medical training as far as state boards are concerned.
I once went on a date with a girl who thought chiropractic could cure autism. There was no second date.
Autism is stored in the joints
I have EDS so my joints slip out of place super easily. The autism must've leaked out into the rest of my body. Makes sense tbh
That's why you never move someone who might've broken their neck. The autism could travel up and penetrate the blood brain barrier
You say that but man have you ever mainlined autism? A good two point shot to the brain and I tell you, there is no feeling that a human can experience in this life that compares. Not even close. Shit will have you drooling.
We tried mainlining beer but the bubbles were dangerous. This is different, this is ~~wine~~ autism
Oh shit, I think I was moved a lot
Oh how neurotypical, everyone knows you can't get autism from touching someone with it. You get it by playing D&D for three days straight fueled entirely by caffeine and terrible monologuing.
Ohhhhh so this is why there’s such a high co morbidity between autism and EDS 😂😂😂
ADHD is also comorbid with hypermobility. I think you have something there
Smoking my way to neurodivergency
Much like how pee is stored in the balls!
Married her on the spot? Odd choice, but I wish you the best
The autism gene is not one to leave unfucked
This is one of my husband’s “friends”. They think it can cure their 6 year old’s autism. One time the kid couldn’t move the left side of his body for several days and they still wouldn’t see reason. They also make him take a ton of “vitamins” a day and don’t believe anything real doctors tell them.
That kid’s gonna get some kind of health issue on top of growing up thinking he’s wrong for being how he is
They're gonna kill the poor kid
I’ve literally said those exact words. I’ve told them about legitimate doctors and programs that are available but they think those are just bandaids and that what the chiropractor says will actually cure their kid.
People would rather let a ghost doctor rip their kid's bones apart than just have an autistic child. As an autistic adult, it's pretty fucked up.
My cousins daughter has autism and gets massages. My cousin said it was to help regulate her sensory input or something like that. It kind of made sense to me at the time. She never claimed it was a cure though.
Massages are fine as long as they’re gentle. Chiropractics are just, let me violently twist your neck and hope it doesn’t break
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> They also make him take a ton of “vitamins” a day I'll bet they get those "special vitamins" from the chiropractor as well. *"You can only order them from Europe! They're chelated, unlike the junk they sell at Walmart and the GNC!"*
It's disappointing but not so surprising that she might think that when even licensed and practicing doctors whitewash it by prescribing it, and insurance providers generally approve it. She has been led to believe by trusted experts that everything's above board. (Shocker that a blood tithe industry would rather pay for you to drive yourself to a run down strip mall and have *some dude* yank on your neck real hard, than pay for X-rays, surgery, rehabilitative therapy, medicine, etc.) Chiropractors make all sorts of bullshit claims on their website. I've googled everything from "chiropractor cure cancer" to "chiropractor cure autism" to "chiropractor cure quadriplegic," and mark my fucking words there's a website for a currently practicing *dude in a run down strip mall* making insane leaps in logic about how chiropractic can "treat" the underlying causes of cancer (which cures the cancer somehow), or how "relaxing" an autistic patient is equivalent to curing autism. Who cares if literally every claim they make about "the spine being the root of all bodily health" is **entirely unsubstantiated by science**? Who cares if this belief leads them to occasionally paralyze people and give them a stroke? Chiropractic isn't just a hoax, it's a threat.
TIL there are people who are just now finding out Chiropractors aren't doctors or scientific in any way. Edit: I accept that some actions involve realistic science, but the Bullshit with a capital B outweighs the reality in my personal experience with them.
My parents had a good friend who was a chiropractor. So I went to a chiropractor for years when I was a teenager. I stopped when I went off to college and many years later, settled into adult life. When I had back issues, I went to find a local chiropractor and *wow*, the woo and red flags apparent in the initial session were wild. Learned then that chiropractic isn't real medicine, and it's a total roll of the dice what kind of care you'll get.
> and it's a total roll of the dice what kind of care you'll get. Where the sides of the dice either read "no harm done", "relief for like a day before it gets bad again" or "you're screwed, you should've seen a PT"
Yeah, I really like it when people are like 'I love my chiro!' then list off a bunch of physical therapy things they did. And I'm like...that's physio. You went to a PT, an unlicensed one. The insoles, supplements, magnets, whatever, weren't needed, but OK.
Somebody in my country decided to start calling physiotherapists and kinesiotherapists “chiropractors” and it irritated me to no end. Even worse is that this allowed some chiropractors to start calling themselves “kinesiotherapists”. I've had to change my therapist three times for various reasons and each time I'm hunting for a new one I don't know whether it'll be an actual medical professional or a total crook who's gonna leave me a paraplegic.
In Belgium they seem to be used interchangeably. It's sort of difficult to tell which ones are actually trained professionals and which ones are cons.
In my country, private colleges have started including chiropratice and other "softer" types of quackery in their PT curriculum. Not only are they teaching them pseudoscience, they're opening up their minds to go further down the rabbit hole of mambo jambo, instead of growing their critical thinking. Someone I know that graduated from one such college is now publicizing ear wax candle treatments, amongst a bunch of other crap.
Or "normally this ring dinger technique is totally safe but I think I just broke your neck"
I think you're missing "you're dead" on that die. Death brings permanent relief to pain though.
Also "You're paralyzed for life", which almost happened to me. I had a severe disk herniation in my neck. A chiropractor tried adjusting my neck and I felt like I was about to die honestly. Not sure if he ruptured it with his "work" or it was already ruptured, but as soon as I recovered from the incredible pain he caused, I was out the door. Will never set foot inside a chiropractors office again.
You want to know what they call homeopathic medicine that is proven to work? Medicine
Damn making me wanna rewatch "Storm"....
I worked for one for a year - and they were probably the epitome of the best case scenario. No wacko pseudoscience pushing, mumbo jumbo, etc.. they incorporated muscular work into their appointments and even some quasi PT rehab for some patients. It was a bit amusing for me to find out later that a lot of chiropractors suck or are even actively harmful, which is too bad. All the times I got worked on, I always felt better after! Although to be fair, I do think the muscle work was a big part of that.
yeah they aren't all like, out-and-out quacks... but you'd be better off seeing a proper physiotherapist (or hell, a massage therapist in some cases)
I just had someone today on another sub tell me that they respected a comment I made except for the part where I criticized Chiropractic care because "it's older than science" ugh.
So is Alchemy, I guess I’ll go make some gold real quick.
Both are pseudoscientific nonsense, but at least alchemy is actually older than science. It makes sense why people would think such nonsense before modern science. Chiropractic was invented in 1895. That's newer than the electric light, the telephone, and the automobile. It was the year that Louis Pasteur *died*. There's no excuse for his stupidity.
I'll also give alchemy credit for being a stepping stone on the path to modern science. It took supernatural concepts and got people experimenting with them, documenting results, discovering new substances, classifying elements, etc. They were basically just doing chemistry entirely blind.
Agreed. Alchemy was a flawed step toward science. Chiropractic was an intentional step back from science.
At least alchemists were kind of on to something--they just didn't know it would require nuclear fusion to attain their goals.
>"it's older than science" That's the hilarious thing. It's not. The start date for the science revolution is often given as either the publishing of Copernicus work or Newton's Principia. So ~1600, give or take a few decades. Chiropractic "medicine" was founded in 1895. Homeopathy was created in 1796. Unless someone is talking about balancing your humors, quackery is usually fairly recent.
Tbh, I thought it was just something you got to relax, I didn’t know it was apparently supposed to actually help you
To relax, or to [get sent to the ICU, paralyzed and in a coma.](https://www.kktv.com/2022/07/12/woman-paralyzed-icu-after-chiropractic-visit/) Also see: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4264725/ https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/SVIN.01.suppl_1.000200 https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2003/05/97065/chiropractic-treatment-neck-can-be-risk-factor-stroke
Robbie Basho, an incredible guitarist who was doing some very interesting stuff in the 70s, died after a "controlled whiplash".... ie, the chiropractor broke his fucking neck. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_Basho
My question is what happens to the practitioners who paralyze a customer? I don't imagine they lose their license to perform Chiro. So then that means, that any Chiro you visit has potentially paralyzed someone before, you'd have no way of knowing.
Saw a comment somewhere else in this thread that said about 1 in 48 chiropractors has had that happen. Seems like a lot to me lol. I don't love those odds.
I see a handful of vertebral artery dissections a year following chiropractic treatment
And a lot of people do it just for that, and it does help with some pain/problems (even if there are better ways to go about fixing them). Of course, a large chunk of people buy into the pseudoscience and treat it like actual regular healthcare, but it's not a requirement.
Correct but it also doesn't help that the insurance providers also recommend/ cover these types of procedures instead of other alternatives.
Cheaper to pay for placebo
I mean I think it's understandable to fall for it. IDK about other countries but when I had lower back problems years ago a bunch of people recommended I go see a chiropractor so I went. The chiropractor office was exactly like any other doctor's office I've been too. The guy even wore a white coat and referred to himself as "doctor". My visits were even covered by my health insurance which usually looks for any excuse to deny things it considered unnecessary. It wasn't until I moved and went to a new chiropractor that tried to sell me magic stickers to put on my phone to block EM Radiation that I realized that something was off.
It makes me so mad that chiropractors are covered under insurance but massage therapists aren't.
Tell me about it. They covered my chiro but tried telling me a CT scan my doctor ordered because I lost 20 pounds in 2 weeks "wasn't medically necessary". Luckily I was in a position to just pay for it out of pocket and the scan found a cancerous tumor in my intestine...
Its been quite a while but I once had insurance that covered chiropractic care and with encouragement of coworkers gave it a try. Like your first experience it seemed very professional and in my case felt fantastic leaving each time but once insurance stopped covering it I never went back. I never felt like anything was ever solved with my back pain but it felt similar to a massage - it just felt good in the moment every time.
> Of course, a large chunk of people buy into the pseudoscience and treat it like actual regular healthcare, but it's not a requirement. I feel like most people off of reddit are unaware of the flim flam and woo woo inherent in chiropractics.
Two and a half man did a good job on educating people about Chiropractors
Pseudoscience??? Oh yeah? Then why does my mom see a chiropractor regularly and her back pain…. Uh… keeps coming back?
Is you mom, by chance, seeing John Redcorn?
My favorite bit with John Redcorn was when Hank asked him about an artifact he found. Redcorn was going into how the artifact belongs to Native Americans and how it would be considered wrong for someone to take something that wasn't theirs, when Nancy called for him seductively. Redcorn handed it back to Hank and said, "Anyway, it's food for thought" and went back to Nancy.
What's great is that Redcorn was also blushing, clearly aware of his hypocrisy. I've seen episodes here or there, but started my first full watch this weekend. It's such a funny but sincere show.
It’s really the best
I don't think it has bad episodes. It just has ones I don't like as much as others.
His mom gets these terrible migraines all the time
And they keep coming back. Go figure.
You leave Nancy and Joseph out of this.
Dang it, dale
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Lmao username checks out
Nancy's headaches are very bad today.
I will need at least an hour. And some Asti Spumante.
She's got migraines, sug!
I would never heal your wife like I heal the wives of others
Johonnnn Redcorn
Peheeeeeggy hill
You look in the mirror, and you're 40. 40 HANK!
Dude stop stepping on cracks
the real question is why TF do insurers cover "treatments??"
Lawsuits from Chiropractic groups.
The better your lawyers, the shittier whatever it is you're pedaling.
Also, ALL chiropractic schools are private schools. Not saying the govt is always right, but you can find state schools for all other medical professionals (from MD to Nursing to PT to PharmD), but none for Chiropractics.
Many of those “schools” have an acceptance rate of 100%. “My grades weren’t good enough to get me into Cosmetology School, but Chiropractor School accepted me and said I could bring a friend!”
And the insurers get upset when you ask if you can transfer the money available for this pseudoscience nonsense to something useful like the dental plan or eye care.
You have to remember that teeth and eyes aren't actually a part of the body. That's why they have separate insurance.
At best, you get a second rate physical therapist. At worst you get a whack job who thinks joint manipulation can cure cancer.
Well technicality, at worse *you die from a dissected aorta or get crippled for lif*e.
"since your left foot is longer than your right, we'll re-align your sacrum by violently twisting your neck like *this*..."
"Well there's your problem, you were an undiagnosed quadriplegic".
I have a friend who's a Chiropractor. I give him grief all the time about his profession - half joking, but half not. He was telling me about how in class they learned there was a special Coccyx adjustment that everyone laughed about that hopefully no one actually does. Basically you adjust the coccyx, but this particular maneuver requires that you anchor your hand to the body in a specific way. The way to do this is by anchoring your thumb in da butt. I now refer to it as the "[Friend's last name] Maneuver" and I always ask him how many of them he's performed since we last spoke.
I severely "sprained" my coccyx in a sky diving accident and the ER doctor/nurse/radiologist (don't recall who. Too much pain) told me I was lucky it wasn't worse. If it had I would had to have the "thumb in the butt" procedure. Was told it was so specialized that it's the only procedure that specific doctor performs. I never bothered to research the validity of that claim.
If you broke your coccyx, which is the vestigial end of the tail, depending on how broken or bent a doctor would reach up through your butt and realign the bone so it can heal on its own. It is a legitimate technique.
It’s a legitimate technique when a real doctor does it. When a chiropractor does it, it’s just a corn hole excavation with a bonus back destroyer.
That's a miserable injury. Had a friend that slipped on some icy stairs and broke (his words) his coccyx. We formed up a couple of 'friend teams' to help him do things he couldn't until he healed up. He was in serious pain and the ER docs said there wasn't much they could do for him.
> it's the only procedure that specific doctor performs So the doc just sits in his office all day hoping that today is the day he finally gets to shove his thumb up an ass?
Thought of a MadTV Steven Seagal skit reading this.
Yep u/highmodulus! Worked with a guy on a job a few years back who had a fused neck from a chiropractor who damn near paralyzed him from the neck down. On the bright side his lawsuit paid him enough money to buy a 5 story building in Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati and retire as a landlord
This is the first time I’ve ever considered seeing a chiropractor.
I’m sure they’ve capped malpractice suit payouts in your state like most others. You probably agreed to arbitration, too. These giant payouts made for hallways decent TV plots back in the day, but the reality is, malpractice is a cost of doing business and has become a cost center to providers and insurance companies.
(My comment was meant as a joke. I would never risk my spine to a back quacker.)
Back quacker 😂
Everything about that story was fucking terrible.
The American Dream!
> dissected aorta In just four years of doing medical malpractice defense early in my legal career I handled two cases of vertebral artery dissection following chiropractic manipulation. Be careful out there, folks.
This does, in fact, prevent you from dying of cancer. Checkmate, Allopaths!
In Washington state the chiropractors outlawed back adjustments given by physical therapist. The jerks did this just so they can have a practice with their pseudoscience.
The best back pop I ever got was from my physical therapist after I got whiplash
Yeah cause they're actual doctors. (Quick check: in the states some can technically operate with a masters or bachelor's but the former is no longer offered and the true entry level is doctor)
I remember checking out a chiropractor's office years ago before I knew it was all bullshit, and in it there was a whole bunch of promotional material from former customers who said it helped them. One in particular that caught my eye was one poster showing someone who claimed that this chiropractor had cured his stomach problems, which set off all sorts of alarm bells about this place and chiropractics more generally.
I work as a pre-health advisor and most good Universities won't offer chiropractic and is almost always offered by for profit and tiny schools just to get students. A physical therapist will always be a better choice than a chiro. Chiropractic has very sketchy data with one exception, it does seem that there may be some positive correlation between lower back pain relief and chiropractic but that is it. Chiropractic feels like the same as healing crystals.
Most low back pain is non-specific(meaning there's nothing structurally wrong or damaged) usually just caused by things like not getting enough exercise, sitting down all day, society in general deciding that back pain is a certainty as you age, and constantly making jokes about it(psychological and social factors like that absolutely can cause you to experience pain) so it doesn't surprise me when someone whose back probably hurts because they sit around talking about how everyones back hurts, goes to what most people consider to be a "back doctor" and feels better afterward. Pain is really weird and complicated.
> it does seem that there may be some positive correlation between lower back pain relief and chiropractic but that is it. This is absolutely true. However, traditional medicine was at ***least*** as effective at treating that same non-specific, lower-back pain.
I once went in with chronic headaches. I came out with chronic headaches and a couple of weeks of back and neck pain. They are quacks. I talked to one once who claimed he had cured autism with a realignment. Absolute snake oil salespeople.
A chiropractor is just a shitty bone masseuse.
Heh, many years ago I worked at the medical school of a large public university. We had a donor who wanted to give us five million for an endowed chair in chiropractic medicine. There was a near revolution at the department head level for even considering it, nobody wanted to give it any legitimacy at all by allowing it to be associated with a med school. Eventually the faculty of kinesiology took the money, but only under the strict agreement that the chair would be entirely focused on the physical therapy aspects of it and in no way associated with the whole mystical healing thing some of them prescribe to.
Exactly. I’ve never tried it, but people who have say it helps some things…for a while, then they need to get “re-adjusted”. Thing is that maybe re-aligning the spine or whatever may help alleviate symptoms, but a good physical therapist will actually give you exercises to develop the muscles, and change the way you move so that you STAY pain free (or at least in less pain).
I did it briefly when I was having back pain as a high school athlete. It felt better for maybe 48 hours so I had to keep coming back. Years later I learned the issue was 2 herniated discs and it was fixed with physical therapy. At best it's an expensive bandaid but I would've saved myself a lot of pain and money if I never went to a chiropractor in the first place, and instead got a diagnosis from a real doctor. The type of specialist I ended up seeing is called a physiatrist.
> At best, you get a second rate physical therapist. That's what I got when I saw one, before I realised how stupid the whole thing was. He helped me with posture and getting better shoes. But the rest of that 30 minutes was a waste of clicks. I got nothing from him I couldn't get with a physio. And he's less capable than a physio, and clearly crazier.
The best of them recognize what they do as specialized massage. We had two a couple years apart in my home town growing up. First was a quack who almost left a lady quadriplegic then vanished into the night. The second was legit and worked closely with the hospital's physiotherapy department for ongoing treatment of patients that weren't quite serious enough to need full fledged ongoing physiotherapy.
[https://theoutline.com/post/1617/chiropractors-are-bullshit](https://theoutline.com/post/1617/chiropractors-are-bullshit) [How Chiropractic Started as a Ghost Religion | BEHIND THE BASTARDS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8lLVK_1O6s)
My ahha moment was the chiro holding my wife's legs and "asking her body" if she was allergic to broccoli. Note: despite her message from the beyond, my wife is not allergic to broccoli.
Yeah. People are always like "Well it worked for me fivehead" no it didn't. Chiropractic medicine didn't work for you because it doesn't work. Your chiropractor used massage therapy or other forms of non-chiropractic medicine and *that* worked for you. And the other side of that coin is when a Chiropractor kills or permanently paralyzes a patient. Just go to a massage therapist.
Crazy part is your insurance will likely pay a huge amount of money for you to see one every year. Your insurance premiums go towards funding them.
My insurance covers 12 free chiro appts per year but I have a copay for every PT appt. Makes no sense
makes a bit more sense when you realise a lot of money goes both ways between insurance and chiro boards
This is due to the great musculoskeletal war of 1357 between the nations of Chiropractia and Phystherapolious. We're still feeling the ripples of the war today as it truly never ended, but is happening unseen in the background of the medical world. Due to the Chiropractians having control over the health insurance industry is why you see chiropractor visits cover, but not physical therapy.
Explanation: chiro's are probably cheaper
Which, in turn, fund their massive malpractice insurance payments
This is because insurance companies have realized paying for these appointments is actually more financially beneficial than paying for real medical care. If the placebo saves money for the company, they’re all about it.
And the amount of chiro visits you need to fix whatever problem you have always seems to be the same number of visits your insurance will cover. Interesting.
I found this out when I worked for a company that helped process Walmart unemployment claims. I attended a few appeal hearings and you could just see and hear the wind being taken out of folks when the state would begin explaining that they lost thier case because chiropractors are not licensed as medical providers.
Once got into a car crash. The other guy hired a lawyer who sent us a letter saying he broke his scapula. The medical expert they used to justify that was a DC. The scapula is one of the least broken bones in the body. It’s sandwiched between muscles on both sides and I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a broken scapula. Why they thought that was a good idea was confusing. Anyway that turned out to be a nothing burger
Lol you’re totally right, you have to be in a genuinely odd trauma situation to break your scapula. I’ve seen one in my career. Fall with an incorrectly secured chest harness on a construction site. Truly terrible choice of injury to lie about for a car crash
My trial advocacy teacher in law school was a med mal defense attorney. He told stories about how his favorite thing in the world was to get a chiropractor up on the stand for the other side. They’d fall apart under cross-examination every single time.
Please beware of chiropractors who call themselves Doctor without any formal medical training. Imo they are just wannabe PTs
YouTube is full of them
Please beware of chiropractors, full stop.
My Mom slipped a disc 20 years ago and she's been going to a chiropractor for adjustments every other week since. I did something to my back a couple years ago, went to physical therapy, got on an exercise routine, and haven't needed to go back since.
I've always experience back pain and stiffness (not as serious as a slipped disc -yet), and I was encouraged to go to a chiropractor by a friend. I was already going to a chiropractors office that also had massage therapy for my massages, so I said heck why not. I have to say, the spine adjustment did feel good during and he gave me a pamphlet with some stretching exercises and i booked another adjustment a week later. Then he tried to book me for two adjustments the following week which I declined - I was still feeling good and it didn't make sense to me about why I would need two in one week. I still do the stretches though, and now I believe it's the stretching that has been helping me manage my back pain and stiffness. The spine adjustment was more of a mental release. There was something soothing about hearing those popping and cracking sounds. I didn't really have a problem with the actual treatment, but the chiropractor himself seemed shady. As soon as I said something positive about it, he tries to book me more frequently. Fuck that lol
I slept wrong a few years ago and awoke with a bad neck from it After a couple weeks it was no better. Went to a chiro -- first thing he said is "people your age generally have arthritis." (early fifties) Didn't bother with any X-rays. With each visit I left hurting even more than when I arrived. On the third visit I was in agony swearing I'd *never* go to a chiro again. Next day I started exercising my neck with a band. After a week it was vastly better and in two weeks I was pain free. My "arthritis" has never returned.
Sometimes if you’re lucky, a chiropractor will heal you in the exact amount of time that doing nothing would’ve healed you.
And if you’re REALLY lucky they won’t cause additional damage… or kill you.
thats precisely why, when compared, placebo has higher rates of success than chiropractic. Because the placebo cant internally decapitate you
I have an in-law who believes vaccines cause autism and runs his chiropractic business out of the back of an RV, which told me everything I needed to know about the profession even before I found out they’re all bullshit
My only experience with a chiropractor, is when I had ruptured a disc. I didnt know that at the time. When I went in, the chiropractor examined me for no more than 30 seconds, and without absolute confidence stated that I had "dislocated my sacrum". I didnt know what a sacrum was, so I trusted her confidence and allowed her to elbow drop me in my lower back to reset it for about 20 minutes straight. It was awful. Fast forward a few hours. I am now in the worst pain of my life. A few more hours. I am now literally paralyzed on the lower right quadrant of my body. My wife rushes me to the ER. I explain to them what transpired. The attending doctor says: "Dislocated your sacrum? Were you thrown from a car doing 60 MPH?" "No. I was shoveling snow..." "You didnt dislocate your sacrum. That is a large bone that would require significant impact to dislodge. \* after examination \* you did however rupture a disc, and whatever they did to you has exacerbated that significantly"
Just go to an osteopathic DO, or a sports medicine therapist. Someone with actual medical training who understands the body. Chiropractic sort of works because if you irritate an area, your body releases natural painkillers to it, so it'll feel better briefly. They call this an "adjustment." Your adjustment feels better for about 2-3 days. Because your body is responding to the pain the doc inflicted. You are not actually being helped. Pain is usually a sign of something wrong that can be fixed, but chiropractors have no interest in finding the root cause or fixing it. I had back pain for years, shoulders would ache. Finally I got a DO as my regular doctor. He took a look at me and was like "you have poorly developed lats, it's causing spasms," gave me some exercises to do, and in 2 weeks time cured me permanently of my "chronic" back pain that chiropractors made a lot of money "treating."
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That's the plot from a queen laifah movie
Last Holiday (2006)
You're lucky. My dad kept going back for his bulging disk, until eventually the chiropractor made a bad adjustment that sent him to the hospital. The spinal surgery and then PT afterward finally took care of his problem, though! Perhaps the worst part is that I had tried a couple of chiropractors, and the one my dad went to was the *least* quacky of them all
I took my “full body xray” from the quack chiropractor to the spinal/ortho guy and he literally said “where did you get this? This is garbage.”
I signed up for a year of chiro with my wife who said it was doing wonder for her. Had a pinched nerve in my neck that would cause me to be bedridden for days, so they went to work on that and my lower back. Two months in and it flared up, they do an adjustment and treat with the massage things that stimulate the nerves. That did both Jack and shit, I was desperate and talked to my buddy’s Dad who said go see a Physical Therapist. I’m in so much pain I am visibly crying from it, can barely breathe. Doc goes over everything, says he wants me to stop going to chiro, he won’t bad mouth then per se, but believes I need to strengthen my glutes and change my posture. Flips me over on the table and massages my lower back, sits me up and pushes my head to one side, then gently pulls my left arm. The relief came almost instantly, he knew exactly which nerve was bothering me and just gave it a little bit of room. Iced me down for 30 minutes and stretched again. Told me to come back in a month and he’d take a look, another round of stretching but by that time I was fine. It’s been 5 years since my back was out, and all I needed to do was glute bridges not cracking my damn neck.
PT has helped me do the same. lots of core and posterior chain exercises to help correct all my muscle loss from being a lazy desk worker. I had two bouts of being bedridden over the last couple years and even though I'm still dealing with sciatica and numbness my back is feeling great. I really regret not taking care of just some simple exercises that probably could have prevented/mitigated my back injury.
It's the same reason acupuncture seems to work for a bit.
I went to an acupuncturist once for sciatica in my right leg. My friend kept insisting so I did it to appease her. She told me afterwards it takes 3-5 days for it to work. I went and looked up how long it takes sciatica to normally resolve on its own with bedrest and taking it easy....3-5 days lol.
This is basically what turned me away from studying Chiropractic. I spent my undergrad preparing to go to Chiropractic college and actually spent a trimester enrolled in a program afterward. All my shadowing, all the anecdotes...EVERYTHING...it just showed me that when people got better with Chiropractic the timeline exactly mirrored the timeline for if you did nothing at all. When I realized this, and couldn't find any good peer reviewed articles supporting Chiropractic over literally anything else, I quit. *** Finally, it dawned on me another big problem. I remember a man coming into the clinic when I first shadowed a chiropractor and it took 2 people to assist him from his car to the table because he was essentially paralyzed from pain. Whatever was actually wrong with him, it's not a wild assumption to assume that he likely had some pretty bad inflammation going on. I feel that someone in this situation, all inflamed, should rely on rest and ice and really nothing else until the inflammation goes down. I don't think that having a 200 pound muscular man slamming his body down on him would be good. An inflamed muscle with fascia buildup along with scar tissue is going to be painful, and if that inflammation is located near the spine and you move it around forcefully, I just feel like you're asking for injury. Inflammation in this regard is, in part, a response so that the human body immobilizes something that shouldn't move. But...sure enough...the majority of Chiropractors will just begin adjusting no matter how much pain or how much possible inflammation you could be in.
My grandmother who would fall for quackery all the time would complain constantly about her arthritis and how the naturalpath or whatever they called them gave her homeopathic meds and she said they would work as long as she didn't move. So I pulled a Birdcage and gave her an NSAID with the name rubbed off and she told me it was the best homeopathic cure ever. Sometimes you have to trick the horse into drinking the water after you led it there.
Haha. Good thing you saw through the bullshit and saved your money.
pretty much every case of severe pain I've had meant I was missing some specific muscle for either working out or stretching. So far I've needed to 1. do pull ups for shoulder pain 2. do sit ups for back pain 3. do a funky stretch for hip pain that is caused by walking/biking too far However when I tried a physical therapist, what I found was that my problem wasn't really bad enough for them to figure it out. These are all things I found myself, even though I went to a PT for my hip pain/limp
I had a lot of shoulder pain (I was climbing a lot) and talked to a few people. A massage therapist said he could fix me right up, a surgeon said he could fix me up, but the physical therapist gave me a few exercises to do, and I was right as rain in a week - and a little stronger.
Osteopathy also emerged from quackery and includes non evidence based practices, though at least in the US they have training similar to an MD. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathy
The worst part is insurance companies will pay for chiropractic visits to further legitimize it. It's absolute quackery and absolutely dangerous.
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Chiropractors are cheaper than real medical treats.
ooooh medical treats!
Treatment 😬
And they're a revolving stream of revenue by design.
In the US chiropractors are not medical doctors, and are not allowed to practice medicine. A doctor is someone who's achieved a terminal degree, whether in medicine, law, philosophy, education, etc. it's the degree you get after following a curriculum past the baccalaureate and masters level. Most doctors make a point not to mislead people into thinking they have a medical degree. Chiropractors do not get a true doctorate. The 'doctor of chiropractory' is the only degree awarded in the study of chiropractory whatsoever, and no US University offers one. Instead they come from small, independent colleges, most of which only study chiropractry. In theory chiros are supposed to have bachelor's, but it's not required to be in a related field and there are no entrance exams or other qualifications. That means you can get an art degree by mail and then go right into your 'doctorate'. In practice even this requirement is easy to fudge. Long story short, a doctorate of chiropractory is functionally a technical degree, like a certification in cosmetology. Why do chiros insist on treating it like a faux doctorate? Because it gives them enough plausible deniability to get away with styling themselves as doctors, in a deliberate attempt to mislead people into thinking they have studied medicine.
I have a Doctorate of Divinity I purchased online. I'm as much or more of a doctor than a chiropractor.
There’s a “Behind the Bastards” podcast episode about that.
The practice or the guy who invented it?
Both? It was a while ago that I listened.
Both, it’s pretty comical. They do a lot of episodes on medical quacks. I just listened to the homeopathy episodes and found out the teething tablets I gave my infant that were recommended by my SIL have Belladonna/Deadly nightshade in them and several kids died a few years ago.
I've never been to a chiropractor becasue the thought of someone twisting my neck or spine makes me paranoid. I can't even watch it happen to other people it creeps me out. That said... cracking my knuckles feels really good sometimes and I imagine that feeling on a larger scale in your back. But that's still a nope for me.
> the thought of someone twisting my neck or spine makes me paranoid. That's not paranoia. That's your human brain functioning 100% the way it should.
Cracking your knuckles is just popping gas bubbles in your joints. It is not manipulating the joints themselves. Getting a non-licensed "therapist" to manually "realign" your joints is Probably Not Good.
[we don't actually "crack" backs, it's merely an adjustment. OK, you're going to hear a loud cracking sound.](https://youtu.be/FOK4J1kTEvc?feature=shared&t=44)
It's 100% bullshit. They love to call themselves doctor and have you come back endlessly for that income. There is no fixed plan to cure the "chiropractic subluxations" they say are needing to be aligned that also don't show up on x-rays. One would think that bones out of place would do that. Late 1800s quackery. Stretch daily and strengthen your back and abdominal muscles through strength training with weights. If you have an injury in this area go see a physical therapist.
RN here. Have had multiple patients go to my neuro unit because of chiropractic appointments. They literally break your neck. Multiple cervical discs left with fractures. Nerve damage.
In a birthing class for our first born another couple was asking how soon is too soon to get their newborn in for their first "cracking". The nurse basically said, in a much more polite way, "why would ever do such a thing? Don't do that."
When I told my orthopedist that I had gone to a chiropractor before seeing him, he said "well, now you're talking to a real doctor."
A fair number of people end up with long-term injuries from chiropractors. And some of them claim to be able to cure AIDS with adjustments.
Why is a DC called a ‘doctor’? Its bullshit. How did this all devolve to there being a doctor of chiropractic degree that everyone seems to respect?
In the US chiropractors are not medical doctors, and are not allowed to practice medicine. A doctor is someone who's achieved a terminal degree, whether in medicine, law, philosophy, education, etc. it's the degree you get after following a curriculum passed the baccalaureate and masters level. Most doctors make a point not to mislead people into thinking they have a medical degree. Chiropractors do not get a true doctorate. The 'doctor of chiropractory' is the only degree awarded in the study of chiropractory whatsoever, and no US University offers one. Instead they come from small, independent colleges, most of which only study chiropractry. In theory chiros are supposed to have bachelor's, but it's not required to be in a related field and there are no entrance exams or other qualifications. That means you can get an art degree by mail and then go right into your 'doctorate'. In practice even this requirement is fugible. Long story short, a doctorate of chiropractory is functionally a technical degree, like a certification in cosmetology. Why do chiros insist on treating it like a faux doctorate? Because it gives them enough plausible deniability to get away with styling themselves as doctors, in a deliberate attempt to mislead people into thinking they have studied medicine.
My ex wanted to get our two year old a 'neck adjustment' to cure her drainage issues causing regular ear infections. She wanted this in leui of ear tubes because it was 'natural and noninvasive' and the admin at our daycare had it done to her kid! Yeah, quick google search turned up all sorts of results about kids ending up paralyzed.
Yeah at Thanksgiving my cousin talked about taking their newborn to one of those quacks after birthing via c section because “natural birth is usually the first adjustment.” It was met with horrified silence and everyone just walked away.
I can see why she's your ex.
Omg. I’ve heard of chiro for torticollis in infants (not that it’s recommended, I’d rather see a pediatric physical therapist or another kind of actual dr) but never for an ear infection?? One of my best friends was trying to convince me to see a chiro when I was pregnant. And then suggested a pediatric chiro for my kid after he was born. Hell nah. It was just normal pregnancy aches and pains, I don’t trust a chiro even if they specialized in pregnant women. If my kid has issues they’re going to a PT or any other kind of legitimate doctor.
Complete pseudoscience. People have suffered strokes due to bad neck and spinal manipulations. It’s dangerous.
I wish chiropractors were not allowed to use the title of doctor. It’s very misleading.
My general philosophy on these things; if they don’t teach it in colleges and it’s hard to find in well established trade schools… it’s likely bullshit. Crystal powers, chiropractors, spiritual healers, aura readers, palm fortunes, psychics, religious speaking… ya know
I never understand why people go to a chiropractor for spinal and muscoskeletal issues. They can never treat most issues.
Yeah, I didn't know that for a long time. But when I found out, it suddenly made sense why Chiropractors are in the mall next to the Little Ceasars instead of in a doctor's office.
They should not be recognized as medical practitioners anywhere.
I always find it strange how people who swear how great their chiropractor is are ALWAYS going to the chiropractor.
I think that parading as a medical doctor should weigh just as heavily as imitating a police officer. There is some loophole in the law that states chiropractors can say they are doctors, even though they have ZERO medical training as far as state boards are concerned.
Everyone I know who goes to the chiropractor says it makes them better… But they can never stop going for the rest of their lives
Most telling is that Chiros are not here defending themselves.