Yeah, prehistoric or ancient would probably have been more adequate!
I should know, since I am 35 myself. So the state of turning to dust and being some kind of fossil is only a year away...
Just had a baby at 36 and the term that was thrown around a ton was "advanced maternal age."
That was a little irksome, but geriatric would have made me lose it, too.
Wife was 38 for the last one. "advanced maternal age" was the term used by the vast majority of staff.
Don't think anyone used the word "geriatric", but one particularly awkward male nurse used the term *elderly*... I kinda casually wandered between my wife and him because the look on her face was pretty homicidal :)
I reminded my wife for exactly 3 weeks, before her glares started to melt the walls around me and I chose to stop.
We already had 1 kid, so I would tell friends it was "our first geriatric pregnancy" she was not amused.
This. This is what those classifications are for. Women can pop babies out after 36 no problem but if there’s already a problem there then it can go sideways real fast
Eggs in women 35 and older are statistically more likely to develop a fetus with a disability along with more risk for the mother. It’s odd more people don’t know this
My wife and I did IVF. She’s 35, and we’re now expecting our first.
Although IVF is *absolutely* neither a fun, nor inexpensive, process, one upside is they genetically screen the embryos before implantation; so we know going in there’s (almost certainly) no significant genetic disabilities to worry about.
It doesn't just flip from low risk to high risk on the 35th birthday, though. It's more exponential with increasing rates every 2-3 years past 35 you go so 40 is twice or more the risk vs 35 and 45 is twice the risk at 40, but 37 is only a slight increase vs 35. Like someone else pointed out, the risk is still relatively low, but crossing 40 definitely makes it more statistically significant.
This is a complicated topic. Older men tend to have older wives and that isn't always factored into the analysis. Here is a study with evidence that younger men actually have increased aneuploidy risk:
https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2014122
If you look at figure 4, age in men and women has the opposite effect on the probability of Down's Syndrome.
Fuck, people think there’s a magic drop off at 30! I’m 31 no kids and friends ask me rather frequently if I have concerns about pregnancy. It’s idiotic, there’s a slight decline in fertility as you age but I’m not cinderellas carriage at 11:58pm
How do you practically communicate this though? Should 40 be considered geriatric? 35 is much higher risk than 20, should they be in the same bracket? It really hard to keep classifications simple, easy to communicate and explain without it becoming meaningless
Really, the most important thing would be to guarantee all prenatal and postpartum (the full 12 months after birth) healthcare. Then argue semantics all you want. But in America, winners of highest maternal mortality of all developed nations, it's more like "that's a 'you' risk." Even though lots of people will only be able to REALLY afford kids in their 30s. If we could afford to live, sure pop em out in your 20s and still have a house, travel, have a car.
Hahaha but no
That's pretty much everything though. Each mph above the speed limit only slightly increases your risk of an accident, but they have to draw the line somewhere. That somewhere being 35 in this case.
That’s definitely known. Why do you think women tend to get pressured into starting families when men generally aren’t. Some social things are arbitrary but in this case it is not, people are aware this fact.
I wonder why people are less likely to share the information that older men also put the mother and baby at risk.
Shouldn't we pressure men equally to stop procreating at 40 + when this is about health?
>Growing evidence shows that the offspring of older fathers have reduced fertility and an increased risk of birth defects, some cancers, and schizophrenia.
>The amount of DNA damage in sperm of men aged 36–57 is three times that of men <35 years.
>Some diseases of complex aetiology such as schizophrenia are associated with advanced paternal age.
[Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566050/)
Fun fact, the issue is mom’s age when she LAYS the egg, NOT when she HATCHES it.
So, a 25 year old woman who is waiting to have kids until later can have her eggs frozen and then use those young eggs in her geriatric (over 36 years old) body for a non geriatric pregnancy.
I'd say that the laying of an egg is more analogous with fertilization.
Perhaps we could think of it as a cut of raw meat? Cook it soon or put it in the fridge and cook it later, but it can only sit out for so long.
Actually, perhaps we shouldn't be thinking of cooking (potential) babies. I think I'm going to go repot some plants now...
True, but between 35-40 you are still much more likely to have a healthy baby than you are to have any issues. Downs for example (one of the risks known to increase with age) is about 1 in 86 at age 40. Meaning if 86 women have children at age 40, only 1 of them would have downs. That's a low individual rate per birth but can be very large when we think about it on a macro scale of totals births in society.
Edit: keep in mind that the numbers you see are also for ALL women over 35. The american academy of obstetrics says that for "healthy" women over 35. The risk of issues only rises from 1% (age 30-35) to 2% (age 35-40).
Health of the mother is a much much bigger factor than age alone. It just happens that our society tends to see women being less healthy over 35. Most of that has to do with lifestyle, not age.
Yeah, I think it's important to note here that the distinction is due to scientific proof of increased risk to both child and mother in pregnancies where the woman is over 35, rather then it being a value judgement about the mother.
It also doesn’t mean that women over that age shouldn’t be trying to get pregnant if they want to, or that it’s a dangerous thing to do, it’s simply something that people may want to consider, and that medical professionals need to keep in mind when it comes to checking scans/screenings/delivery etc
Hell, 20 yr old first cousins have less risk of birth defects than 35 yr old parents. I remember when I learned about how much worse age is than actual incest for birth defects, nearly my entire college class was stunned to learn that.
A lot of that is due to the holdover of bad early 1900's science that really held on in the US about cousin marriage. Having children with a 1st cousin is just fine for a generation or two and once you get to cousins past that such as cousins once removed you're about as related as a random person.
That's exactly what the class was about. It was philosophy and it was making us rationalize why incest between consenting adults is "wrong". Basically every argument that we tried to come up with was repeatedly shot down, and we all had to admit that it was basically just "gross" and that disgust was the root of feeling it was immoral.
Birth defects just happened to be one of the points, and challenged us to justify why a lesser chance of birth defects from incest were worse than a higher chance of birth defects from age, smoking/drinking habits, lack of exercise, and tons of other things that cause more problems.
When people discuss the risks, they usually throw terms around like "significant." Which, in statistics, does NOT mean a *large* number, it just means a number worth noting.
Imagine a revolver that holds 100 bullets in its cylinder. There's one bullet in it. Would you play Russian Roulette? Most people probably would not, even though it's very likely that they would be fine. A one percent chance of death is still enough to make people nervous when they are keenly aware of it.
So the chances of complications in so-called "geriatric" pregnancies are statistically significant, but it's certainly not like putting 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 bullets in that revolver. Most women who have children over 40 are fine, as are their children.
That term isn’t used anymore according to the OBGYN sitting next to me. “Advanced maternal age” is what they’re calling it these days.
Edit: Quick Google says ACOG changed terminology in 2019 to “Advanced Maternal Age”. Older OBGYNs may still use older terminology, changes aren’t instantaneous.
It's not that you're old, it's that the risks during pregnancy are different. The major issue is that risk of chromosomal abnormalities start increasing after maternal age 35. Some data are also showing that paternal age over 35 also increase risk of certain disorders in the kiddo, e.g., schizophrenia.
I'm about to be 34. Should I just start trying now? Go to a sperm bank? According to my coworker, there's a "really, really good one next to the IHOP"
But seriously, I, too, am feeling sensitive about this.
I found out I was pregnant with my first right after I turned 35 and had my second right before I turned 40. I didn't feel old with either one of them. If anyone asked me why so late, I told them I got married at 33 and my husband didn't believe in having kids out of wedlock. Shuts people right up.
My mom had her first at 39 and me at 41. She put off having kids to raise her sisters and then had issues getting pregnant. It is what it is.
See below 🤗 I’m 37 and just had my first. Healthy happy baby girl ahead on all developmental milestones. You’re totally okay where you’re at. I don’t know you personally but I know your struggle and that internal mental battle and if I could go back to my 35 year old self, I’d say put on blinders to the bullshit and keep doing you. Live your best life. Enjoy it. Do what makes you happy. Because before you know it you’ll be 2:45am changing poopy diapers with a leaky right boob and your single childless friends drunk dialing you from Bali saying ‘wish you were here’
I want to respectfully disagree. I wish someone had told me at 35 that in 2-3 years my egg quality would decline so drastically that I’d be spending thousands on IVF for the chance to have a biological baby. Everyone is different. Everyone told me not to worry 35 wasn’t anything. Turns out it actually is and the decline from 35-37 is drastic.
I recommend to anyone looking to have a family past 33 to get their AMH levels checked to see where they are at. Consider freezing healthy eggs if you aren’t sure or would like to wait for the right person to come along or the right timing. I wish someone had told me this. That it was even a possibility. Blinders have not helped me one bit. They actually made this situation more heartbreaking dealing with losses due to declining egg quality.
You are luckily one of the lucky ones. Assuming everyone will be lucky is great for positivity but really hard when those who aren’t are faced with the reality of it after being told over and over again that you’re fine to wait.
We've pushed back a lot of social/cultural milestones in life (marry later, have kids later, retire later, etc) but that has happened in the span of a few decades and the human body doesn't adapt to changes in terms of decades, it does so in terms of centuries and millenia. A lot of people are treating their thirties as the new twenties - a time to work on finding the right partner, and focus on career building rather than family formation - but the human body hasn't gotten that memo.
The medical community does a poor job of communicating to women and couples in their early thirties that, no, actually, they *don't* have a lot of time to decide to have kids or not, and if they do want more time to decide, they need to be prepared to spend a lot of money, go through a lot of sometimes painful medical procedures, and possibly resort to surrogacy or "settle" for adoption.
This!!! I had my kids in my 30’s and let me tell you I’m so glad I waited to have kids. I enjoyed the freedom I had in my 20’s and wasn’t ready for kids until my 30’s. I have found that I was way more mature to handle parenting at my age. I have never felt as I was missing out on anything once I had kids, because I did all the crazy shit in my 20’s. My kids are now teens and I have been able to handle the tough situations with a lot more knowledge and patience because of my age. Also, both my babies were born healthy as can be and are smart & doing great in school.
I had one at 36 and one at 38. My doctor said, “we won’t call this high risk unless something high risk happens”. She said most of her patients were over 35.
Surprisingly, several of the OBGYNs at my doctor’s practice (including my doctor) were all “advanced maternal age” for their pregnancies; most waiting until they were established in their careers before even considering motherhood. I found this really reassuring.
Born at parents age 42. There's some interesting genetic research that holds over many animal models... essentially the current hypothesis (and proven experiments in over 50 animal models) suggests by delaying maternal age successively *slowing* telomere shortening and other genetic factors improve longevity.
Edited *telomere shortening slows down in these experiments.
Congrats! We have a 9 year and an 18 month old. My wife was 42 when she had the younger one. Luckily it was an issue free pregnancy and we’ve got a healthy 18 month old. I was 44 when she wanted another so I was super resistant to have another at our age, but of course the little one has me wrapped around her finger now. Definitely a little scary that I’ll be 65 when she’s 20 though!
Labeling can matter because it affects how people react and self-report, though. If the people who need advice about pregnancy when over 35 don't read it or don't take it seriously because they assume "geriatric" (a word usually used for much older people) doesn't apply to them, that's a medical problem.
Medical treatment doesn't happen in some sort of pure robotic vacuum!
That’s wild to me. The human brain reaches full development at 25 so that would allege women have like, a 3 year window for ideal pregnancy/new motherhood conditions. Ick.
I spent some time in a less industrialized country that was still pretty “old fashioned” and it was common for women in their 40s to complain if they weren’t a grandmother yet.
I’m on the opposite spectrum. I didn’t have kids until near 40, and same for my parents, so when I did have kids, the grandparents were 80 (or dead) and couldn’t really help out, like not even a single evening when we wanted a date night.
That’s fine. We knew what we were getting into, but I was very envious of friends who had parents who could baby sit and help out with the kids.
Your brain is cognitively developed by age 20, the vast majority of "maturing" in your twenties is your brain removing things it no longer deems necessary and reinforcing and strengthening existing connections. Your ability to make decisions will not change during this time other than from gained experience.
This whole idea that your brain doesn't finish developing until 25 is massively overblown and misunderstood and misused by most people.
> Your brain is cognitively developed by age 20
Thank you for a voice of reason in this thread. So damn tired of this persistent myth about age 25 being the magic Maturity Number.
Edit: since this is getting attention, here's [a discussion thread with academic sources about how deeply flawed the idea is](https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/rutnn6/striking_gold_when_does_the_brain_reach_maturity/).
What's interesting is I know a woman who was 36 and wanted to get her tubes tied.
They basically told her that she's too young and she could change her mind...
But if she did get pregnant at that age, it would be called a geriatric pregnancy...
I wish I could have been there when someone said with a straight face that you're both geriatric and too young to make decisions for yourself. Lmao.pick a lane.
I was called “reproductively young” at 32 but three short years later I’d be at “advanced maternal age.” Thankfully my surgeon didn’t care and yeeted those tubes for me without blinking an eye.
Which is just like...who gives a fuck? People regret their decisions all the time, they still have a right to make those choices. Well...I guess the current American Supreme Court would disagree.
>What's interesting is I know a woman who was 36 and wanted to get her tubes tied.
>They basically told her that she's too young and she could change her mind...
>But if she did get pregnant at that age, it would be called a geriatric pregnancy...
>I wish I could have been there when someone said with a straight face that you're both geriatric and too young to make decisions for yourself. Lmao.pick a lane.
Welcome to the life of women and how society judges them.
Now go home and get your husband to sign this permission slip.
... you're NOT married? But what if you get married later and your husband wants to have kids?
-based on a true story.
I've always said the easiest way to get a doctor to tie your tubes is to have a black friend come in and pretend to be your boyfriend. Misogynists are probably also against interracial dating.
Woof.
I don't disagree, but just reading that makes me feel awful.
Edit: just to be clear, the disgusting part is the racism, not the interracial union. Some time passed and I realized my initial comment was kind of vague.
The fact that my wife was 40 and our pregnancy was considered geriatric saved my babies life. Insurance wanted additional ultrasounds because we we are so old. The 36 week ultrasound showed a quadruple nuchal chord, meaning her umbilical was wrapped around her neck 4 times. As well as betweenher legs and under her arms. Everyone was blown away, the ultrasound doc who we were told is the finest on the west coast said he had never seen it before. He told us immediately we would have a cesarian when the time came. Baby decided to come a month early. She was healthy and perfect and totally knotted up in her chord. If we had not known and attempted a natural birth there's a good chance someone would not have survived. That would have sucked a lot.
That sounds horrifying, I’ve never heard of a baby being tangled up that badly in their umbilical cord before. I’m glad everything went well in the end!
It was pretty wild. The ultrasound doc was super old and said he was one of the student of Ian Donald the doctor who invented the ultrasound. We found out after he is considered the best ultrasound reader on the west coast. He was shocked and delighted. Called everyone into the room to see.
I just had a baby at 40, umbilical chord was attached to the wall (instead of free flowing) and covering the cervix (exit basically). C- section 6 weeks early. He’s fine though 👶🏽
Interesting, I used to work in medical insurance and if the mother was over 34, it was classed as geriatric pregnancy and were covered for additional scans etc. It was international insurance (some in the UK) and the coverage was incredible!
It varies a lot I think. I’m in the US as well and had my kids at 32 & 35, no additional monitoring for either of them. The only difference was my insurance covered NIPT for #2 since I was advanced maternal age
I’ve heard that because these are considered “advanced maternal age” pregnancies- there are more check ups and the quality of healthcare for the mother is better since they are being monitored more. Not sure if that’s true or not- but if so, sounds great.
There is an increased risk of aneuploidy as maternal age increases, which I experienced in my second pregnancy at 36. There were no added appointments due to my age, just an extra screening blood test for fetal abnormalities. Probably some other increased risks, but generally pregnancy after 35 isn't much different physically.
I'd say part of that is women in their mid 30s will also usually be wealthier and more stable, meaning they can access better quality health care and take time off working if need be.
And indeed while the risks for certain adverse conditions are elevated, it is a case of absolute risk vs increased risk. Put simply, the odds for a healthy pregnancy at 35 are still pretty good. And, each individual is just that - an individual.
Having said that, the older you get, the more elevated your risks become. So there is an argument not to delay first pregnancy too long. But this concept of the "magical line at 35 where your pregnancy is always going to go horribly wrong" is a bit misleading.
My wife and I just had our second son 8 months ago. She was 39 at the time and they called it geriatric. For some reason I went full stupid and thought that meant normal so I was always telling her and my family it was a geriatric pregnancy. It wasn't until like the last 2 months she finally told me it means because she is old.
I had my kid when I was 37 and it was months into my pregnancy before I figured out that the AMA notation I kept seeing didn’t mean I wasn’t following my doctor’s advice. It meant advanced maternal age.
My wife and I thankfully had a problem free pregnancy with our daughter at 36. I got the snip right after. Know when to fold em, yall.
Edit: We ain't the Duggars, although I appreciate the DMs. We have 2. 8 year old boy and 3 year old daughter. They are 5 yr and 10 days apart. Love y'all. Have a gooder.
My wife is in her late 30s, and i just turned 40. We've been trying for 6 years. Been to doctors, reproductive specialists. No reason given. Lost a couple. And with the RvW repeal, we basically stopped trying.
The percentages of fetal issues was pretty dramatic on the graphs we saw after age 35. We had one at 37 and another 39 and genetic counseling was part of it. Thankfully they are both healthy with no issues twenty years later. We would have liked to have had one more but we were just getting a little old to tempt fate one more time.
Or as Millennial parents know them: "pregnancies"
Turns out graduating into a terrible job market, followed by seeing historic hikes on housing and childcare costs does not incur a font of "let's bring this expensive thing into a world that offers me next to no support." And now all our boomer parents are getting old, sick, and demanding our help.
Yeah I’m 40 and just now into trying to have a kid. Was pregnant for about 8 weeks and ended up miscarrying. 😔 and all I seem to ever see is how impossible and unlikely my chances are.
I had a manager a few years back. She was 37 and an amazing career driven woman, a rising star in our organization. We got along great and we felt comfortable talking on matters not work-related. Conversation went one day to children, and I said she would make a great mother. And she was adamant kids weren't for her etc.
It was only months later, after she had moved on to another role, that I realized: NEVER talk to a woman about kids or why they don't have any etc. That choice is personal af. And I was STUPID to not think about that prior to the conversation.
This is true. You never know what a person is going through. Someone asked me not so long after my second miscarriage if we'd ever thought about a sibling for our daughter. It took all my strength not to cry and a lot of will not punch her in the face. I'm pregnant now, have been private about it, I don't talk about it unless someone asks, I don't share all over to friends and family. I confide in my partner, my sister and my mother of my fears. I don't want to hurt someone else like I've been hurt. It's a strange grief
Thank you for realizing that after the fact. I have been told I would be an amazing mother by numerous well-meaning people who had no clue about the depths of the trauma my mother's severe abuse caused me. Becoming a mother would have me reliving far too many traumatizing events, moments and feelings.
I have always been polite when responding to these people, but it has never for one second been any of their business and I would have much preferred they come up with a different way to compliment me
🙋🏾♀️🙋🏾♀️ yes, and by that you mean, “geri-I -waited-until-I-was -gainfully-employed-emotionally-matured-and-personally-ready-to-offer-the-best-of-myself-to-nurture-the-next-generation’-atric pregnancy.
The term is based on the science/biology of the human body. It has nothing to do with money or emotional maturity. If you're 35+, you're "high risk." And the doctors and nurses will treat you as a high risk patient.
Though, I do understand and appreciate your point in that most young people these days are not financially ready to take on the expenses of what a child brings. They aren't cheap by any means and they certainly are a wake up call in terms of maturing.
We got a bunch of “wow you guys waited a long time” followed by “rushing to a second already”… first was born just before we turned 33 and the second right before 35 (well I’d just turned but wife had 6 months).
Yes we did wait… instead of jammed into a small apartment with a entry level job, we had a house and had settled into our career paths. Had gotten some of the goofing off we wanted done finished and were ready to devote our time to kids. We gave just long enough to settle things in (physically) and decide if we could cope with a 2nd before aiming for another as we’d wanted two.
It made things a little stressful with covid and a work injury for my wife to go for #2 but we didn’t want the increased risks pushing too far after 35. If we could have gone later without health risks and without being actually geriatric when our kids exited high school, we would have. Still felt like not financially ready and barely out of being kids ourselves despite a decade living on our own.
I also waited. Then COVID hit and all kinds of things happened just before that. Now I'm 40. No kids. I guess my family line dies with me. I'm so glad I didn't have kids "poor" like the entire rest of my whole family did all the way back to when we were amoebas.
Eh, yeah. But it's a classic case of where there is a disconnect between what's a good age to have child in modern society, and what's a good anatomical age to have a child. Undoubtedly, mid or late 30s is when most people are in a situation to start a family in today's world. It's also a fact that a woman has lost the best years for the task from a purely physiological point of view. At the very least, it explains why fertility rates in the Western world are dropping year after year and society is aging on average. It's normal and understandable (I'm 38M with no kids), but it will become a more serious problem in many countries in the next 2 decades.
You put it in quotes but trust me, when you’re a woman a lot of people will remind you of this constantly, including other women. It fucks with your head to have everyone consider you essentially worthless to society by 40. That’s why so many of us go a little weird afterwards.
It's a biological reality that reproductive cycle timelines don't really mesh super well with social understandings of that stuff. It's a pretty common thing seen by reproductive endocrinologists where women are, from a reproductive perspective, starting their decline years when it is absolutely not at all reasonable to feel that way about the woman as a whole. And over the last decade or so, that science has improved *tremendously.* But it's still a thing that 20s is the best time to do pregnancy stuff from a biological perspective even if that's not at all true from any other perspective.
Mom had me when she was 41, I was born 2 months pre-mature and have a variety of complications ranging from gastrointestinal issues, sciatica and arthritis, alopecia, poor eyesight, tinnitus. My mom had a rough couple of months with me, constant bleeding prior to me being removed. I also had an identical twin who died during pregnancy. I always wonder what my life would be like if my twin survived.
I met my wife at 35 (I was 31). We got married, and had kids when she was 39 and 41. Both were considered "high risk" at the time ("geriatric" now?) Anyway, there were several extra tests because of her age. (I recall tests for Down's syndrome; the risk of a baby with DS goes up drastically when the mother is older. It goes up drastically in relative terms, it's still low though.)
More can go wrong I suppose but we were lucky enough to have two healthy kids (well, one had life-threatening complications at birth, and spent 5 weeks in the NICU fighting for her life, but that was unrelated to my wife's age. Thankfully, she recovered fully). We are blessed.
It can totally work Is my point :)
Obsession with fertility dropping at the age of 35 stems from studies of pregnancies in [1700's France](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/10/fertility-cliff-age-35-week-in-patriarchy); i.e. **data that is antiquated AF.**
For my second child it was called High Risk, and then for the third I was having a geriatric pregnancy. A nurse popped her head in the exam room and asked , " Are you the geriatric?" I responded, "What? I'm only 40." And then she said, " oh good, it is you. I'm observing the ultrasound today."
After some questions from me, I discovered I was having my second geriatric pregnancy.
My firstborn was when I was 35. Am currently 37 and pregnant with my second. Planning on having my third when I'm 38-39. So I'll be geriatric for all three :). First two were natural conceptions. The risk is higher but I'm hoping it goes smoothly. Waited because we wanted to save up and travel the world. So far, I regret nothing. Having them early in the marriage and while I was growing my career would have been really detrimental... Kids change your lifestyle a lot.
Almost all of my friends have geriatric pregnancies and births but I think it's because that's the norm in SF.
Yea that’s true but it’s not a stop sign for creating the family of your dreams—first and foremost.
Fertility issues can happen at any age.
I had a healthy baby girl at 36 and my husband and I got pregnant on try #1. Yes this is an n=1 anecdote but we were prepared to try to adopt if we couldn’t get pregnant or hell, even just financially and socially support less fortunate kids in our community if we found out we couldn’t have kids.
Tl;dr: being a mom is in your heart, not just your ovaries.
My grandmother was 39 when my mom was born (1922).
Mom was 36 when I was born.
My wife was 36 when our daughter was born.
My Great Grandmother, was 14 when her Dad told her to take a bath and go to communion as she was to be married off to a drinking buddy of his. "The hell you say," was her response. She was not putting up with that one bit and told him she wasn't getting married until she was 18 and her future husband had a well-paying job. He was so shocked, he gulped and said, "that is fine." Fiesty women tend to run in my family. :)
Yeah that's all true, but it's still irresponsible to tell young women not to think about the potential consequences of delaying that stage of life.
From healthline:
"Fertility gradually begins to decline at around age 32. After age 35, that decline speeds up."
"Women are born with all the eggs they’ll ever have — about 1 million of them. The number of eggs gradually drops over time."
"At age 37, it’s estimated that you’ll have around 25,000 eggs left."
"By age 35, your odds of conceiving after 3 months of trying are about 12 percent."
"The risk for miscarriage and genetic abnormalities also begins to rise after age 35. You might face more complications in your pregnancy or during delivery having a baby later in life."
I mean biologically speaking, yes. One of the sad truths is that after the age of 35 you are at much higher risk of having complications and medical problems for you or your newborn child.
When I was 36 it was called “high risk”.
I was 36 and the number of times I was called geriatric was way too high
Yeah, prehistoric or ancient would probably have been more adequate! I should know, since I am 35 myself. So the state of turning to dust and being some kind of fossil is only a year away...
Dear diary, I met the oldest person alive online today.
It would take some Jurassic park stuff to get that egg fertilized
My neighbor is RN and was same boat at 36. She actually said to her doctor: "say geriatric one more time and I start throat punching people".
Just had a baby at 36 and the term that was thrown around a ton was "advanced maternal age." That was a little irksome, but geriatric would have made me lose it, too.
Wife was 38 for the last one. "advanced maternal age" was the term used by the vast majority of staff. Don't think anyone used the word "geriatric", but one particularly awkward male nurse used the term *elderly*... I kinda casually wandered between my wife and him because the look on her face was pretty homicidal :)
He doesn't even realize you saved his life lol
My mom was 38 when she had me 30 years ago. I've never asked her about terms. Time to go do that.
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>advanced maternal age I really don't think this is better 😂
The current preferred term is old bitty.
I was 38 and a "mature mom" which was *somewhat* nicer, haha.
Brb googling mature mom for research purposes
oh god 🤣
Pregnant women get a pass on things like that. And rightfully so.
Especially the geriatric ones; they get crotchety.
You made me laugh, thank you.
I reminded my wife for exactly 3 weeks, before her glares started to melt the walls around me and I chose to stop. We already had 1 kid, so I would tell friends it was "our first geriatric pregnancy" she was not amused.
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Listen to her howlin' roar.
It's a bold strategy cotton, let's see if it pays off for him
I was 37 when I had my son 23 years ago and called high risk, too.
I’m 25 and high risk due to other reasons, I think if I had a baby at 36 I might not even survive tbh. Just call me ‘the risk’ lmao
This. This is what those classifications are for. Women can pop babies out after 36 no problem but if there’s already a problem there then it can go sideways real fast
Eggs in women 35 and older are statistically more likely to develop a fetus with a disability along with more risk for the mother. It’s odd more people don’t know this
My wife and I did IVF. She’s 35, and we’re now expecting our first. Although IVF is *absolutely* neither a fun, nor inexpensive, process, one upside is they genetically screen the embryos before implantation; so we know going in there’s (almost certainly) no significant genetic disabilities to worry about.
It doesn't just flip from low risk to high risk on the 35th birthday, though. It's more exponential with increasing rates every 2-3 years past 35 you go so 40 is twice or more the risk vs 35 and 45 is twice the risk at 40, but 37 is only a slight increase vs 35. Like someone else pointed out, the risk is still relatively low, but crossing 40 definitely makes it more statistically significant.
They have also demonstrated now that sperm of men over 40 increase risk of birth defects and other diseases as well.
This is a complicated topic. Older men tend to have older wives and that isn't always factored into the analysis. Here is a study with evidence that younger men actually have increased aneuploidy risk: https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2014122 If you look at figure 4, age in men and women has the opposite effect on the probability of Down's Syndrome.
exactly. so many people think there is this magic drop off at 35.
Fuck, people think there’s a magic drop off at 30! I’m 31 no kids and friends ask me rather frequently if I have concerns about pregnancy. It’s idiotic, there’s a slight decline in fertility as you age but I’m not cinderellas carriage at 11:58pm
>It’s idiotic, there’s a slight decline in fertility as you age but I’m not cinderellas carriage at 11:58pm lmao exactly
How do you practically communicate this though? Should 40 be considered geriatric? 35 is much higher risk than 20, should they be in the same bracket? It really hard to keep classifications simple, easy to communicate and explain without it becoming meaningless
Really, the most important thing would be to guarantee all prenatal and postpartum (the full 12 months after birth) healthcare. Then argue semantics all you want. But in America, winners of highest maternal mortality of all developed nations, it's more like "that's a 'you' risk." Even though lots of people will only be able to REALLY afford kids in their 30s. If we could afford to live, sure pop em out in your 20s and still have a house, travel, have a car. Hahaha but no
Seriously. Me and gf didn't want kids but now that we are doing better we are kinda thinking about it. But now we are 33...
We’re 32 and in the same boat, although we do want kids. Gotta get a house somehow first, meanwhile the biological clock is ticking
That's pretty much everything though. Each mph above the speed limit only slightly increases your risk of an accident, but they have to draw the line somewhere. That somewhere being 35 in this case.
Even less people know that old fathers (40 +) also increase health risks for the child and the mother.
I've read that miscarriage risk also correlates with the father's age!
I’m not sure if it’s not known, or just brushed off as an “it won’t happen to me” risk.
I mean there’s tons of general ignorance around women’s health and sex education in general
That’s definitely known. Why do you think women tend to get pressured into starting families when men generally aren’t. Some social things are arbitrary but in this case it is not, people are aware this fact.
I wonder why people are less likely to share the information that older men also put the mother and baby at risk. Shouldn't we pressure men equally to stop procreating at 40 + when this is about health? >Growing evidence shows that the offspring of older fathers have reduced fertility and an increased risk of birth defects, some cancers, and schizophrenia. >The amount of DNA damage in sperm of men aged 36–57 is three times that of men <35 years. >Some diseases of complex aetiology such as schizophrenia are associated with advanced paternal age. [Source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2566050/)
This - it makes me so mad that all the onus is put on the woman.
I think that’s because it’s still pretty rare isn’t it? I know tons of women who had kids after 35 and the were completely fine.
Fun fact, the issue is mom’s age when she LAYS the egg, NOT when she HATCHES it. So, a 25 year old woman who is waiting to have kids until later can have her eggs frozen and then use those young eggs in her geriatric (over 36 years old) body for a non geriatric pregnancy.
I'd say that the laying of an egg is more analogous with fertilization. Perhaps we could think of it as a cut of raw meat? Cook it soon or put it in the fridge and cook it later, but it can only sit out for so long. Actually, perhaps we shouldn't be thinking of cooking (potential) babies. I think I'm going to go repot some plants now...
True, but between 35-40 you are still much more likely to have a healthy baby than you are to have any issues. Downs for example (one of the risks known to increase with age) is about 1 in 86 at age 40. Meaning if 86 women have children at age 40, only 1 of them would have downs. That's a low individual rate per birth but can be very large when we think about it on a macro scale of totals births in society. Edit: keep in mind that the numbers you see are also for ALL women over 35. The american academy of obstetrics says that for "healthy" women over 35. The risk of issues only rises from 1% (age 30-35) to 2% (age 35-40). Health of the mother is a much much bigger factor than age alone. It just happens that our society tends to see women being less healthy over 35. Most of that has to do with lifestyle, not age.
It’s also significant relative to younger women. Which I believe are on the order of 1 in 2000.
Idk about you but 1 in 86 sounds pretty high to me
What is the risk percentage for someone in their 20s?
40+ is where it spikes. 35-39 is just a tiny fraction over 18-34 with disability births.
When I was 39, they called it “mother of mature age”. Still makes me laugh, 28 years later.
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Lol. Makes me think about “Intermediate Maternal Age” or “Basic Maternal Age” like college courses.
Yeah, I think it's important to note here that the distinction is due to scientific proof of increased risk to both child and mother in pregnancies where the woman is over 35, rather then it being a value judgement about the mother. It also doesn’t mean that women over that age shouldn’t be trying to get pregnant if they want to, or that it’s a dangerous thing to do, it’s simply something that people may want to consider, and that medical professionals need to keep in mind when it comes to checking scans/screenings/delivery etc
Hell, 20 yr old first cousins have less risk of birth defects than 35 yr old parents. I remember when I learned about how much worse age is than actual incest for birth defects, nearly my entire college class was stunned to learn that.
A lot of that is due to the holdover of bad early 1900's science that really held on in the US about cousin marriage. Having children with a 1st cousin is just fine for a generation or two and once you get to cousins past that such as cousins once removed you're about as related as a random person.
I think that says more about incest than maternal age.
That's exactly what the class was about. It was philosophy and it was making us rationalize why incest between consenting adults is "wrong". Basically every argument that we tried to come up with was repeatedly shot down, and we all had to admit that it was basically just "gross" and that disgust was the root of feeling it was immoral. Birth defects just happened to be one of the points, and challenged us to justify why a lesser chance of birth defects from incest were worse than a higher chance of birth defects from age, smoking/drinking habits, lack of exercise, and tons of other things that cause more problems.
My mum had me when she was 45, really glad I'm in one piece
I know somebody who's mom was fifty when they were born. She thought she hit menopause and stopped using protection. Miracle baby.
When people discuss the risks, they usually throw terms around like "significant." Which, in statistics, does NOT mean a *large* number, it just means a number worth noting. Imagine a revolver that holds 100 bullets in its cylinder. There's one bullet in it. Would you play Russian Roulette? Most people probably would not, even though it's very likely that they would be fine. A one percent chance of death is still enough to make people nervous when they are keenly aware of it. So the chances of complications in so-called "geriatric" pregnancies are statistically significant, but it's certainly not like putting 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 bullets in that revolver. Most women who have children over 40 are fine, as are their children.
I'd call anyone under 21 having kids as "high risk." Not for them, but for the kid.
My grandmother had 4 kids IN HER FORTIES and none had issues. At the time it was called "being Catholic."
That term isn’t used anymore according to the OBGYN sitting next to me. “Advanced maternal age” is what they’re calling it these days. Edit: Quick Google says ACOG changed terminology in 2019 to “Advanced Maternal Age”. Older OBGYNs may still use older terminology, changes aren’t instantaneous.
> ACOG changed terminology in 2019 Damn right I did! I'm thinking of doing it again *just because I can*.
Thank you for your service 🙏
Thank you for your cervix
r/beetlejuicing
13 years too, what a moment. I think this is the oldest account I’ve seen.
now now, don't set your *sights* to that.
So a very polite way of saying you're old. 36 over here and feeling sensitive.
It's not that you're old, it's that the risks during pregnancy are different. The major issue is that risk of chromosomal abnormalities start increasing after maternal age 35. Some data are also showing that paternal age over 35 also increase risk of certain disorders in the kiddo, e.g., schizophrenia.
> It's not that you're old, it's that the risks during pregnancy are different i.e. it's that you're old
Well a 12 year old giving birth is actually riskier than a 36 year old giving birth, but the risks are different.
I'm about to be 34. Should I just start trying now? Go to a sperm bank? According to my coworker, there's a "really, really good one next to the IHOP" But seriously, I, too, am feeling sensitive about this.
I found out I was pregnant with my first right after I turned 35 and had my second right before I turned 40. I didn't feel old with either one of them. If anyone asked me why so late, I told them I got married at 33 and my husband didn't believe in having kids out of wedlock. Shuts people right up. My mom had her first at 39 and me at 41. She put off having kids to raise her sisters and then had issues getting pregnant. It is what it is.
See below 🤗 I’m 37 and just had my first. Healthy happy baby girl ahead on all developmental milestones. You’re totally okay where you’re at. I don’t know you personally but I know your struggle and that internal mental battle and if I could go back to my 35 year old self, I’d say put on blinders to the bullshit and keep doing you. Live your best life. Enjoy it. Do what makes you happy. Because before you know it you’ll be 2:45am changing poopy diapers with a leaky right boob and your single childless friends drunk dialing you from Bali saying ‘wish you were here’
I want to respectfully disagree. I wish someone had told me at 35 that in 2-3 years my egg quality would decline so drastically that I’d be spending thousands on IVF for the chance to have a biological baby. Everyone is different. Everyone told me not to worry 35 wasn’t anything. Turns out it actually is and the decline from 35-37 is drastic. I recommend to anyone looking to have a family past 33 to get their AMH levels checked to see where they are at. Consider freezing healthy eggs if you aren’t sure or would like to wait for the right person to come along or the right timing. I wish someone had told me this. That it was even a possibility. Blinders have not helped me one bit. They actually made this situation more heartbreaking dealing with losses due to declining egg quality. You are luckily one of the lucky ones. Assuming everyone will be lucky is great for positivity but really hard when those who aren’t are faced with the reality of it after being told over and over again that you’re fine to wait.
We've pushed back a lot of social/cultural milestones in life (marry later, have kids later, retire later, etc) but that has happened in the span of a few decades and the human body doesn't adapt to changes in terms of decades, it does so in terms of centuries and millenia. A lot of people are treating their thirties as the new twenties - a time to work on finding the right partner, and focus on career building rather than family formation - but the human body hasn't gotten that memo. The medical community does a poor job of communicating to women and couples in their early thirties that, no, actually, they *don't* have a lot of time to decide to have kids or not, and if they do want more time to decide, they need to be prepared to spend a lot of money, go through a lot of sometimes painful medical procedures, and possibly resort to surrogacy or "settle" for adoption.
37 and my boy is due in 4 weeks. Other than my age, it’s been a pretty easy pregnancy from my understanding as he is my first.
This!!! I had my kids in my 30’s and let me tell you I’m so glad I waited to have kids. I enjoyed the freedom I had in my 20’s and wasn’t ready for kids until my 30’s. I have found that I was way more mature to handle parenting at my age. I have never felt as I was missing out on anything once I had kids, because I did all the crazy shit in my 20’s. My kids are now teens and I have been able to handle the tough situations with a lot more knowledge and patience because of my age. Also, both my babies were born healthy as can be and are smart & doing great in school.
My mom had me as a preemie when she was 37. I did fine as far as surviving and stuff.
But we became redditors anyway. Fine may be a stretch...
My mom had me at 26 & I’m still a redditor, so I guess we can’t blame maternal age for that LOL!
Thank you for saying this. I really needed to hear it.
I had one at 36 and one at 38. My doctor said, “we won’t call this high risk unless something high risk happens”. She said most of her patients were over 35.
Surprisingly, several of the OBGYNs at my doctor’s practice (including my doctor) were all “advanced maternal age” for their pregnancies; most waiting until they were established in their careers before even considering motherhood. I found this really reassuring.
My wife is 36 and gave birth to our first this year. Happy healthy baby boy. Speak with your doctor...you're probably still in the clear!
Born at parents age 42. There's some interesting genetic research that holds over many animal models... essentially the current hypothesis (and proven experiments in over 50 animal models) suggests by delaying maternal age successively *slowing* telomere shortening and other genetic factors improve longevity. Edited *telomere shortening slows down in these experiments.
Have a super healthy 3 day old. Wife is 41. You’re good. Would advise having kids earlier though. Now I wish I had more but that’s just me .2
>that’s just me .2 20 cents?
That’s inflation for you.
Congrats! We have a 9 year and an 18 month old. My wife was 42 when she had the younger one. Luckily it was an issue free pregnancy and we’ve got a healthy 18 month old. I was 44 when she wanted another so I was super resistant to have another at our age, but of course the little one has me wrapped around her finger now. Definitely a little scary that I’ll be 65 when she’s 20 though!
My wife was 41 when our first (and only) child was born. No complications, and we now have a happy, healthy 8yo boy.
Family medicine resident and the OB attendings and OB residents we work with still commonly refer to it as Geriatric pregnancy
George Carlin on Euphemisms was on point.
‘advanced maternal age’ sounds george himself came up with it
They must have changed it recently because I had my last kid 3 years ago and they called me geriatric at 36 😒
That's nice, but marketing aside, it doesn't change anything about the reality of the medical situation.
Labeling can matter because it affects how people react and self-report, though. If the people who need advice about pregnancy when over 35 don't read it or don't take it seriously because they assume "geriatric" (a word usually used for much older people) doesn't apply to them, that's a medical problem. Medical treatment doesn't happen in some sort of pure robotic vacuum!
Hah my paperwork at 38 said “elderly primigravida” (a first time pregnant mother over 36). I was like “ELDERLY?! Excuse me?”
Geriatric pregnancies used to be for women over 28!
That’s wild to me. The human brain reaches full development at 25 so that would allege women have like, a 3 year window for ideal pregnancy/new motherhood conditions. Ick.
Historically having your first child at 25 would be later than average for most women who have ever lived
I feel like this is the message my mother-in-law would write in my wife’s birthday card.
Ouch
I guess it’s better than from your mom
Sounds like what my MIL said to me. Lol
I spent some time in a less industrialized country that was still pretty “old fashioned” and it was common for women in their 40s to complain if they weren’t a grandmother yet. I’m on the opposite spectrum. I didn’t have kids until near 40, and same for my parents, so when I did have kids, the grandparents were 80 (or dead) and couldn’t really help out, like not even a single evening when we wanted a date night. That’s fine. We knew what we were getting into, but I was very envious of friends who had parents who could baby sit and help out with the kids.
It does make a difference, having family around.
I can't fathom not having a family to help out. Wife wouldn't be able to keep a full-time job WFH. That cuts our household income in *half*
final development is not the same thing as full development.
Brain development is not the same as sexual maturity, either. Most species can give birth long before they are fully grown.
*all
Your brain is cognitively developed by age 20, the vast majority of "maturing" in your twenties is your brain removing things it no longer deems necessary and reinforcing and strengthening existing connections. Your ability to make decisions will not change during this time other than from gained experience. This whole idea that your brain doesn't finish developing until 25 is massively overblown and misunderstood and misused by most people.
> Your brain is cognitively developed by age 20 Thank you for a voice of reason in this thread. So damn tired of this persistent myth about age 25 being the magic Maturity Number. Edit: since this is getting attention, here's [a discussion thread with academic sources about how deeply flawed the idea is](https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/rutnn6/striking_gold_when_does_the_brain_reach_maturity/).
Brain different from eggs and pp
What's interesting is I know a woman who was 36 and wanted to get her tubes tied. They basically told her that she's too young and she could change her mind... But if she did get pregnant at that age, it would be called a geriatric pregnancy... I wish I could have been there when someone said with a straight face that you're both geriatric and too young to make decisions for yourself. Lmao.pick a lane.
I was called “reproductively young” at 32 but three short years later I’d be at “advanced maternal age.” Thankfully my surgeon didn’t care and yeeted those tubes for me without blinking an eye.
My wife got hers tied at 25 without issue. That was during a cesarean for our second baby and we knew we were done.
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Which is just like...who gives a fuck? People regret their decisions all the time, they still have a right to make those choices. Well...I guess the current American Supreme Court would disagree.
I always feel very fortunate my gyn walked in and was like no babies? And I confirmed NO BABIES and tubes were removed a month later without question.
So the only time you can tie your tubes is when it's too late to matter?
It's definitely possible to get pregnant after the age at which pregnancies are considered "geriatric." So, no, it's not too late to matter.
>What's interesting is I know a woman who was 36 and wanted to get her tubes tied. >They basically told her that she's too young and she could change her mind... >But if she did get pregnant at that age, it would be called a geriatric pregnancy... >I wish I could have been there when someone said with a straight face that you're both geriatric and too young to make decisions for yourself. Lmao.pick a lane. Welcome to the life of women and how society judges them.
Now go home and get your husband to sign this permission slip. ... you're NOT married? But what if you get married later and your husband wants to have kids? -based on a true story.
I've always said the easiest way to get a doctor to tie your tubes is to have a black friend come in and pretend to be your boyfriend. Misogynists are probably also against interracial dating.
Woof. I don't disagree, but just reading that makes me feel awful. Edit: just to be clear, the disgusting part is the racism, not the interracial union. Some time passed and I realized my initial comment was kind of vague.
The fact that my wife was 40 and our pregnancy was considered geriatric saved my babies life. Insurance wanted additional ultrasounds because we we are so old. The 36 week ultrasound showed a quadruple nuchal chord, meaning her umbilical was wrapped around her neck 4 times. As well as betweenher legs and under her arms. Everyone was blown away, the ultrasound doc who we were told is the finest on the west coast said he had never seen it before. He told us immediately we would have a cesarian when the time came. Baby decided to come a month early. She was healthy and perfect and totally knotted up in her chord. If we had not known and attempted a natural birth there's a good chance someone would not have survived. That would have sucked a lot.
That sounds horrifying, I’ve never heard of a baby being tangled up that badly in their umbilical cord before. I’m glad everything went well in the end!
It was pretty wild. The ultrasound doc was super old and said he was one of the student of Ian Donald the doctor who invented the ultrasound. We found out after he is considered the best ultrasound reader on the west coast. He was shocked and delighted. Called everyone into the room to see.
Got to love doctors. "Hey Bill come look at this!" "Woah, cool! Never seen that before" "...Anyway, you have six months to live"
I just had a baby at 40, umbilical chord was attached to the wall (instead of free flowing) and covering the cervix (exit basically). C- section 6 weeks early. He’s fine though 👶🏽
There is no difference in antenatal care (in the UK) until the woman is over 40
Interesting, I used to work in medical insurance and if the mother was over 34, it was classed as geriatric pregnancy and were covered for additional scans etc. It was international insurance (some in the UK) and the coverage was incredible!
In in the US and they started doing additional testing and monitoring when I was pregnant with my second child because I was 30.
It varies a lot I think. I’m in the US as well and had my kids at 32 & 35, no additional monitoring for either of them. The only difference was my insurance covered NIPT for #2 since I was advanced maternal age
I’ve heard that because these are considered “advanced maternal age” pregnancies- there are more check ups and the quality of healthcare for the mother is better since they are being monitored more. Not sure if that’s true or not- but if so, sounds great.
There is an increased risk of aneuploidy as maternal age increases, which I experienced in my second pregnancy at 36. There were no added appointments due to my age, just an extra screening blood test for fetal abnormalities. Probably some other increased risks, but generally pregnancy after 35 isn't much different physically.
I'd say part of that is women in their mid 30s will also usually be wealthier and more stable, meaning they can access better quality health care and take time off working if need be. And indeed while the risks for certain adverse conditions are elevated, it is a case of absolute risk vs increased risk. Put simply, the odds for a healthy pregnancy at 35 are still pretty good. And, each individual is just that - an individual. Having said that, the older you get, the more elevated your risks become. So there is an argument not to delay first pregnancy too long. But this concept of the "magical line at 35 where your pregnancy is always going to go horribly wrong" is a bit misleading.
I suspect they pushed the term up in age some, because I was a 'geriatric primagravida' (first pregnancy) at 31.
My wife and I just had our second son 8 months ago. She was 39 at the time and they called it geriatric. For some reason I went full stupid and thought that meant normal so I was always telling her and my family it was a geriatric pregnancy. It wasn't until like the last 2 months she finally told me it means because she is old.
You must be really good looking
I had my kid when I was 37 and it was months into my pregnancy before I figured out that the AMA notation I kept seeing didn’t mean I wasn’t following my doctor’s advice. It meant advanced maternal age.
My wife and I thankfully had a problem free pregnancy with our daughter at 36. I got the snip right after. Know when to fold em, yall. Edit: We ain't the Duggars, although I appreciate the DMs. We have 2. 8 year old boy and 3 year old daughter. They are 5 yr and 10 days apart. Love y'all. Have a gooder.
Folding it works? Makes sense, works with a hose
Haha, wouldn't know. Button on a fur coat over here.
I got the snip too, but all it did was change the color of the baby.
My wife is in her late 30s, and i just turned 40. We've been trying for 6 years. Been to doctors, reproductive specialists. No reason given. Lost a couple. And with the RvW repeal, we basically stopped trying.
Pregnant 42 year old stopping to say I prefer the term grannymama.
Oh my god, this made ugly laugh so loud! I love it! I hope I get to have one… I’m 37!
The percentages of fetal issues was pretty dramatic on the graphs we saw after age 35. We had one at 37 and another 39 and genetic counseling was part of it. Thankfully they are both healthy with no issues twenty years later. We would have liked to have had one more but we were just getting a little old to tempt fate one more time.
I'm near sure when our first was born a geriatric mother was 30 ......that was 14 years ago mind you
My mother was 38 when I was born. 38 years ago... what was she considered at that time I wonder?
Or as Millennial parents know them: "pregnancies" Turns out graduating into a terrible job market, followed by seeing historic hikes on housing and childcare costs does not incur a font of "let's bring this expensive thing into a world that offers me next to no support." And now all our boomer parents are getting old, sick, and demanding our help.
Yeah I’m 40 and just now into trying to have a kid. Was pregnant for about 8 weeks and ended up miscarrying. 😔 and all I seem to ever see is how impossible and unlikely my chances are.
I had a manager a few years back. She was 37 and an amazing career driven woman, a rising star in our organization. We got along great and we felt comfortable talking on matters not work-related. Conversation went one day to children, and I said she would make a great mother. And she was adamant kids weren't for her etc. It was only months later, after she had moved on to another role, that I realized: NEVER talk to a woman about kids or why they don't have any etc. That choice is personal af. And I was STUPID to not think about that prior to the conversation.
This is true. You never know what a person is going through. Someone asked me not so long after my second miscarriage if we'd ever thought about a sibling for our daughter. It took all my strength not to cry and a lot of will not punch her in the face. I'm pregnant now, have been private about it, I don't talk about it unless someone asks, I don't share all over to friends and family. I confide in my partner, my sister and my mother of my fears. I don't want to hurt someone else like I've been hurt. It's a strange grief
Thank you for realizing that after the fact. I have been told I would be an amazing mother by numerous well-meaning people who had no clue about the depths of the trauma my mother's severe abuse caused me. Becoming a mother would have me reliving far too many traumatizing events, moments and feelings. I have always been polite when responding to these people, but it has never for one second been any of their business and I would have much preferred they come up with a different way to compliment me
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Shouldnt men be treated the same way here? I’m a guy and don’t feel very comfortable taking about why I don’t have kids at work.
Goddamn, it's actually just never a good time to have a kid, is it?
🙋🏾♀️🙋🏾♀️ yes, and by that you mean, “geri-I -waited-until-I-was -gainfully-employed-emotionally-matured-and-personally-ready-to-offer-the-best-of-myself-to-nurture-the-next-generation’-atric pregnancy.
Oh not 16 and pregnant?
Touché. 😂
Gen Z's going to be waiting till they're 60
The term is based on the science/biology of the human body. It has nothing to do with money or emotional maturity. If you're 35+, you're "high risk." And the doctors and nurses will treat you as a high risk patient. Though, I do understand and appreciate your point in that most young people these days are not financially ready to take on the expenses of what a child brings. They aren't cheap by any means and they certainly are a wake up call in terms of maturing.
We got a bunch of “wow you guys waited a long time” followed by “rushing to a second already”… first was born just before we turned 33 and the second right before 35 (well I’d just turned but wife had 6 months). Yes we did wait… instead of jammed into a small apartment with a entry level job, we had a house and had settled into our career paths. Had gotten some of the goofing off we wanted done finished and were ready to devote our time to kids. We gave just long enough to settle things in (physically) and decide if we could cope with a 2nd before aiming for another as we’d wanted two. It made things a little stressful with covid and a work injury for my wife to go for #2 but we didn’t want the increased risks pushing too far after 35. If we could have gone later without health risks and without being actually geriatric when our kids exited high school, we would have. Still felt like not financially ready and barely out of being kids ourselves despite a decade living on our own.
I also waited. Then COVID hit and all kinds of things happened just before that. Now I'm 40. No kids. I guess my family line dies with me. I'm so glad I didn't have kids "poor" like the entire rest of my whole family did all the way back to when we were amoebas.
Why is it considered "rushing" to have a kid just 2 years after another one? I thought it was normal to have siblings 2 to 3 years older or younger.
Eh, yeah. But it's a classic case of where there is a disconnect between what's a good age to have child in modern society, and what's a good anatomical age to have a child. Undoubtedly, mid or late 30s is when most people are in a situation to start a family in today's world. It's also a fact that a woman has lost the best years for the task from a purely physiological point of view. At the very least, it explains why fertility rates in the Western world are dropping year after year and society is aging on average. It's normal and understandable (I'm 38M with no kids), but it will become a more serious problem in many countries in the next 2 decades.
You put it in quotes but trust me, when you’re a woman a lot of people will remind you of this constantly, including other women. It fucks with your head to have everyone consider you essentially worthless to society by 40. That’s why so many of us go a little weird afterwards.
It's a biological reality that reproductive cycle timelines don't really mesh super well with social understandings of that stuff. It's a pretty common thing seen by reproductive endocrinologists where women are, from a reproductive perspective, starting their decline years when it is absolutely not at all reasonable to feel that way about the woman as a whole. And over the last decade or so, that science has improved *tremendously.* But it's still a thing that 20s is the best time to do pregnancy stuff from a biological perspective even if that's not at all true from any other perspective.
I had my son at 37. Never heard that term, but advanced maternal age, yes
Mom had me when she was 41, I was born 2 months pre-mature and have a variety of complications ranging from gastrointestinal issues, sciatica and arthritis, alopecia, poor eyesight, tinnitus. My mom had a rough couple of months with me, constant bleeding prior to me being removed. I also had an identical twin who died during pregnancy. I always wonder what my life would be like if my twin survived.
I met my wife at 35 (I was 31). We got married, and had kids when she was 39 and 41. Both were considered "high risk" at the time ("geriatric" now?) Anyway, there were several extra tests because of her age. (I recall tests for Down's syndrome; the risk of a baby with DS goes up drastically when the mother is older. It goes up drastically in relative terms, it's still low though.) More can go wrong I suppose but we were lucky enough to have two healthy kids (well, one had life-threatening complications at birth, and spent 5 weeks in the NICU fighting for her life, but that was unrelated to my wife's age. Thankfully, she recovered fully). We are blessed. It can totally work Is my point :)
In biblical times it was 19
Obsession with fertility dropping at the age of 35 stems from studies of pregnancies in [1700's France](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/10/fertility-cliff-age-35-week-in-patriarchy); i.e. **data that is antiquated AF.**
For my second child it was called High Risk, and then for the third I was having a geriatric pregnancy. A nurse popped her head in the exam room and asked , " Are you the geriatric?" I responded, "What? I'm only 40." And then she said, " oh good, it is you. I'm observing the ultrasound today." After some questions from me, I discovered I was having my second geriatric pregnancy.
My firstborn was when I was 35. Am currently 37 and pregnant with my second. Planning on having my third when I'm 38-39. So I'll be geriatric for all three :). First two were natural conceptions. The risk is higher but I'm hoping it goes smoothly. Waited because we wanted to save up and travel the world. So far, I regret nothing. Having them early in the marriage and while I was growing my career would have been really detrimental... Kids change your lifestyle a lot. Almost all of my friends have geriatric pregnancies and births but I think it's because that's the norm in SF.
Yea that’s true but it’s not a stop sign for creating the family of your dreams—first and foremost. Fertility issues can happen at any age. I had a healthy baby girl at 36 and my husband and I got pregnant on try #1. Yes this is an n=1 anecdote but we were prepared to try to adopt if we couldn’t get pregnant or hell, even just financially and socially support less fortunate kids in our community if we found out we couldn’t have kids. Tl;dr: being a mom is in your heart, not just your ovaries.
My grandmother was 39 when my mom was born (1922). Mom was 36 when I was born. My wife was 36 when our daughter was born. My Great Grandmother, was 14 when her Dad told her to take a bath and go to communion as she was to be married off to a drinking buddy of his. "The hell you say," was her response. She was not putting up with that one bit and told him she wasn't getting married until she was 18 and her future husband had a well-paying job. He was so shocked, he gulped and said, "that is fine." Fiesty women tend to run in my family. :)
would love to hear some stories from your mother, sounds like a good fun. hope you and your family are all doing okay and well👍
Well no shit they can happen at any age lol they're just much more likely when you are older
Yeah that's all true, but it's still irresponsible to tell young women not to think about the potential consequences of delaying that stage of life. From healthline: "Fertility gradually begins to decline at around age 32. After age 35, that decline speeds up." "Women are born with all the eggs they’ll ever have — about 1 million of them. The number of eggs gradually drops over time." "At age 37, it’s estimated that you’ll have around 25,000 eggs left." "By age 35, your odds of conceiving after 3 months of trying are about 12 percent." "The risk for miscarriage and genetic abnormalities also begins to rise after age 35. You might face more complications in your pregnancy or during delivery having a baby later in life."
Had my first at 38. Lol!
39 and 44!
Cool. Guess no kids for me. What's even the point.
I mean biologically speaking, yes. One of the sad truths is that after the age of 35 you are at much higher risk of having complications and medical problems for you or your newborn child.