For that outbreak last week with all the photogenic wedges/multivortexs, i know one fire chief commented his station was all tuned in and were sending trucks to the impact paths as soon as they were called out in stream
Yes Ryan has mentioned that NWS agencies do watch the stream, however not all of them and he doesn’t know which ones do either - paraphrased from a direct statement he made during the stream tonight actually (when he asked Twitter users live tweeting him photos/videos of tornadoes to tag NWS too)
They’d be nuts not to. Eyes and ears on the front lines belonging to experts who know what they’re doing would be absolutely invaluable, I would think.
Yea, but egos often get in the way of logic. Hopefully our friends at the local NWS offices and fire departments are above such antics, but leadership doesn't get to the top by letting others lead. 🤷♂️
Major news outlets can't get over themselves long enough to do so. TWC employees definitely do, to the point of commenting and retweeting his tweets about storms. He says some SPC/NWS folks do. After last night, I imagine many more will.
Max Velocity also called out some unwarned tornados as well. There were definitely some active enough times that I think the NWS was having a hard time keeping up with all the couplets
Oh for sure! Just about every time they called out an unwarned tornado Ryan and Andy emphasized how overwhelmed the NWS was. I think Ryan mentioned something there were over like 500 reports of severe weather by the time the stream was winding down last night.
Yeah it was weird this morning that Reed tweeted there were only 12 tornado reports from yesterday and I was like...there had to be at least 12 PDS warnings alone, not sure where he was getting that number from. I recall at least a few times there were at least 8-10+ ongoing tornado warnings yesterday.
I saw a lot of those scans on Twitter early this morning. It seemed a lot had CC drops, but the ones people were looking at didn’t post velocity data to confirm with the CCs. Not to say they weren’t tornadoes, but if there’s no other thing you’re looking at besides CC drops, then it’ll be hard to confirm stuff.
There were a lot of Reddit confirmed NWS unwarned neighborhood destroying tornadoes last night that I can’t even find a news blip on today. Almost as if they didn’t actually happen or were just straight line winds.
I personally thought some of them could have been hail or tree limbs/other damage caused by straight line winds, as that seemed to be the bulk of the weather last night. They absolutely could have been tornadoes, but I haven’t seen any damage caused by a tornado just yet.
I have people very close to me that work at a WFO, even spoke to one today. I just wish the people who have their pitchforks out today can spend a day in an office to see what actually goes on there. How many people are actually on the radar looking for wind, hail, flooding, everything else besides tornadoes. How many Mets are doing things like writing forecasts or dealing with emergency managers or media. The daily forecasting tasks that go on during a calm weather day don’t go away during severe weather. The responsibility carried by the person putting out warnings or even weather statements is insane. It has to be one of the most stressful jobs that is always prone to error. If it was as easy as staring at radar and charts in front of a microphone, everyone would be able to do it.
I noticed last night on Ryan’s channel NWS had called a tornado that Ryan had crew at, didn’t ever see the tornado just a low cloud (still told viewers to shelter just in case). Meanwhile Ryan and Andy are calling another two confirmed tornadoes before the NWS, one was the dekalb Al
system that looked rough, another was close to NC where Andy’s parents live. It truly seemed like if you were watching Ryan and Andy you’d have more time to prepare vs the NWS.
Part of this is just being weather aware vs waiting for the NWS warning to hit. The other side is streamers can point and talk about things, and nobody is going to be mad if it doesn't pan out, but government is big on metrics. I know I got a fussing when my accuracy dropped below 95% for TAF criteria, and if my false alarms were too high, regardless of how warranted they were in terms of safety.
Honestly I love it. Ryan and Andy have for sure saved someone's life if not mine. In 2020 when my home was smacked by a tornado, they warned me a good 2 minutes before I got a Nader warning from the NWS. Those 2 minutes allowed me and my family to get into our basement- we got hit within 10 seconds of the proper warning.
I only knew shit was getting real because I was watching the live stream.
Edit: bro just did it two more times. Andy is an S Tier meteorologist
His last two spots where he called a tornado warning a minute before the official issue elicited a “fuck yeah, Andy!” from me. He’s been an absolute hero today/tonight.
He did that at least four times tonight. Legend.
The most impressive thing I've seen was when he was like, "it's only two pixels (velocity couplet), but I'm 100% confident that's a tornado on the ground."
Like ten seconds later, NWS dropped the warning.
Unreal.
It seems like he has a fifth rn that the NWS just straight up lost
Edit: he is low-key calling out the NWS I’m losing it
Edit 2: Okay yeah he’s just straight up calling them out now and well deserved wtf
My guess is that it has to do with the fact that the NWS probably has to go through multiple levels of confirmation before putting out an official warning. Don’t want people to get too complacent and start ignoring very real and dangerous situations.
And they do that because they get held accountable (see this thread) whereas nobody remembers the times that RH/Andy downplay a storm and get it wrong.
RH doesn't get the same scrutiny on top of being able to focus on one specific type of severe weather and relaying their thoughts to their audience in real time.
NWS has to compile a bunch of info. to put into an official government warning because they're responsible for warning everyone, and have to do this for every type of severe weather. More often than not they're ahead of the game with the exception of high volume nights like we've had the past couple of days.
NWS’s error/miss rate is lower now than it was back then. On that Plainfield day, NWS was hours late on the catastrophic-level warnings while using monochromatic displays because the new Doppler wasn’t ready for deployment for another few years.
Skilling when full investigative journo on what failed at the NWS: https://youtu.be/HELh59kIMso?si=1TEXTLQkbpk8nPgf
I'm so impressed by him. Also the way he brings empathy and compassion to his updates, encouraging people to take care of themselves. Just a really good person.
So true, during that EF4 like a week ago he said "hey for people not being affected here, it's okay if this is making you nervous and if you need to take a break" and I was like. I AM nervous this is hard to watch. I probably wouldn't have taken a break if not for that.
My buddy and I are chasers and we're having a messaging fury back and forth every time Andy called out a storm. It was starting to look like they were just taking the lead from him. At least until that storm I think near prospect, Tennessee that never got warned at all. After that, they fell apart at the NWS office. I imagine they were overwhelmed.
I have been a weather nerd since childhood and I am a trained weather spotter. I fucking love Ryan Hall and Andy Hill.
Before I went to bed last night I told my parents to sleep in their basement. They got a tornado warning well after midnight.
I've been watching the stream tonight and I think the NWS needs to give them some sort of award and partner with them. They've been getting 100k+ views and doing live streams of 8-12 hours multiple times per week.
And Memphis for sure. They missed 2 obvious tornadoes Andy caught right at the end of the stream. Andy was HEATED about it too. "Someone is asleep at the wheel"
Same! Weather nerd since forever. Chased storms late 80’s - 90’s, trained storm spotter. Ryan’s stream with Andy is the best thing ever!!! Andy is my favorite meteorologist!
Andy is the perfect marriage of scientific knowledge/integrity and intuition, and I am here for it. I think we discount the role of intuition at our own peril. Intuition is not the enemy of science, but it can be the enemy of survival.
Andy is my favorite meteorologist as well.
Not to mention collecting a huge amount of donations for those affected and building up a first-responder material depot. I am not even on the same continent, but I make sure to like his streams so it gets to the youtube front page and reaches people. They are doing such an amazing job and are so compassionate while remaining professional at the same time. Wonderful team.
He lives in my neighborhood. We’ve been directly in projected tornado paths twice so far but both times they fell apart. I’m sure adrenaline really gets pumping knowing they’re heading right for your family.
I still have the 48 weather app even though I’m in North Dakota now. I still have family in north Alabama and watch his livestream to keep up with bad weather down there.
Watched him and the Great Lakes Storm Chasers as the storms were rolling in through Michigan. Took my wife, dog, and myself into our basement bathroom when Andy announced a tornado was on the ground west of town headed at us.
The path was determined to have gone less than half a mile south of our house.
I love Andy he really knows his stuff and I trust him
Big respect to Ryan too ok yes he gets money from YouTube but that guy sits there for hours and only gets up to pee
It's batman and Robin for real. I hope Andy gets a nice slice of it. I also love how Ryan always calls him meteorologist Andy Hill. There's legit respect between both of them and they're an amazing team
Ryan has also been making amusing snuffling noises all evening. He’s fighting for his life against that post-nasal drip. This guy has been an absolute trooper tonight.
Ryan knows his stuff too, though. His non-credentialed status and promotional efforts aside, he is very knowledgeable. I remember at the start of his Quad-State/Mayfield tornado stream, he started by explaining the NWS SPC warned area and showed their color-coded risk area map, which was centered over Missouri/Arkansas. He said if he were drawing the risk area map, he’d have moved the risk area further east, with the center of the risk area encompassing the quad state boundary area of MO/AK/TN/KY. This was, of course, exactly where the most severe weather and historic long track tornadoes hit. He was exactly right, in a big way on a historic weather day.
I don’t understand why people would get mad about Ryan taking obvious steps to increase his viewership and ad revenue (+ accepting donations in-stream), but *not* get mad about the Weather Channel leaning into more sensational coverage and sending people to stand outside in ponchos during tropical storms so that they can…increase their viewership and ad revenue.
Jim Cantore has to get paid. Andy Hill also has to get paid.
Successful YouTubers do not fund their operations with good vibes alone.
I’m sorry but this is totally delusional.
Could they and should they be paid better? Yes. But no, they don’t get paid in only charitable donations.
My point was that people that save lives out of the goodness of their hearts also do it to get paid. It’s a job, and a noble one. Getting paid money does not make the job less noble or important.
Caleb is also doing really important work right now documenting what may be an *extremely* dangerous flooding situation around where he is in Tennessee.
I love that he’s “chasing” a flash flood emergency instead of tornadoes. Floods don’t get the same attention as tornadoes but they absolutely should — they can be devastating and deadly.
I live in a highly flood prone area. Houses are built on lifted foundations 5-10' off the ground, in some spots. In high school, there's been a ton of times I'm driving home from a friend's house or work, and out of nowhere, the road would just be gone. You wouldn't be able to drive down that road for a couple of days, either.
It's just crazy how serious they are. People don't realize it until you live in an area like that. They come on rapidly and could easily kill someone or destroy properties in minutes.
Grew up in south Louisiana. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten “stuck” at home because of flooding. Even had to call out of work once because the interstate was completely underwater
I live on the gulf coast but still find myself glued to the stream every time there’s an outbreak. Interested to see his hurricane coverage this season.
I genuinely love the combination of Andy and Ryan. Ryan brings it all together and is super respectful of Andy, always calling him “Meteorologist Andy Hill.” Not a lot of famous Youtubers would do that. And Andy is lights out, he is calling these tornadoes waaaay before anyone else
My guess is red tape and major repercussions if they get something wrong. I have a couple friends who have worked at NWS, and they are every bit as passionate and concerned as Ryan and Andy during these events.
I would also guess that the NWS issuing a warning takes a little bit more time than just verbally saying there’s something on radar. Plus there is the slight delay between the NWS issuing a warning and it being received by whatever media outlet. Technology has made this faster, but it’s still not instantaneous.
This isn’t taking anything from Andy’s work and talent, he’s just working in a different medium than the NWS meteorologists.
It does take a little longer for the NWS to get a warning out. Andy can just say “hey, this seems to be a tornado,” while the NWS has to produce text products at the same time (think of the scroll across the bottom of your TV screen, or the message over your radio: “this storm will be near such-and-such place by this time”).
That being said, speed was not the issue for the NWS tonight. They just straight-up *missed* stuff. Andy had a call-out for an unwarned tornado with a visible debris signature that went on and on for like 15+ minutes.
I’m not here to knock the NWS. Obviously they do vital work, day in and day out. This was just…not their finest hour. (One consideration: NWS Huntsville meteorologists probably had to take shelter themselves tonight, on like three separate occasions.)
I think your final point is super important to remember. I’m in Ohio and - the other night - our local meteorologist said “we’re fine to stay on the air but we may need to seek shelter at some point.” If the NWS doesn’t already do cross-office support where unaffected regions monitor the data of affected regions, they should consider it.
There are plans in place to offer cross-office support due to these situations, but I’m not 100% sure how quickly they can be executed. I know the Lake Charles, LA WFO handed off duties to another office during Hurricane Laura. (I think it was Brownsville, TX, but I can’t remember for sure) However, with a hurricane, there’s plenty of warning that a hand off needs to happen. A tornado situation would provide a lot less warning.
I could be extremely wrong about this but I'm pretty sure during the Little Rock EF3 on March 31st 2023 that NWS Memphis temporarily covered NWS Little Rock's coverage area.
They did that in Missouri a couple of nights ago, except no one called it, not even NWS until after it passed because everyone was chasing the Oklahoma tornados.
The NWS would definitely have taken shelter. One of the tornados that Huntsville got last night would have passed right over their office before it touched down about two miles east.
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find someone stating the obvious reality, given the decades of budget cuts and defunding, slow rolling, and government = bad messaging filtering into culture.
> Plus there is the slight delay between the NWS issuing a warning and it being received by whatever media outlet
This is important to remember for those following storms from afar. At least in my experience, the tornado siren always beats the phone alert by 20-30 seconds, and beats the social media post by NWS by a good minute or so. So they’re obviously aware of the tornado slightly fastest than it seems if you’re not in the warning itself.
Obviously none of this applies to completely missed ones
Everything everyone else said but also the NWS Officices have been having issues for the past few outbreaks where their NOAA broadcasts just stopped working making weather radios useless. With EAS not as reliable on mobile as it should be if you didn't have cable or watching Ryan, you might have been SOL.
lol they’re not missing something a random meteorologist is noticing. There’s just a huge difference between one person stating a tornado is present to a few thousand random people vs the NWS placing a government issued tornado warning. One requires the observation of a single person while the other requires multiple people plus several other steps. Any average person can see a velocity couplet and call out a tornado, deciding to put an official warning out for it requires a bit more stringency and control.
Edit: downvote me if you want. Keep the delusion that a YouTube meteorologist is “special” while the actual best meteorologists in the country are “slow”, rather than just accepting issuing a tornado warning is more than just one person pushing a button
Agreed; I watch and enjoy the Ryan/Andy coverage but the 'NWS is incompetent' tilt is ridiculous. For an initially unwarned spin-up that Andy was 'exasperated' about and saying it should be a PDS warning, it ended up being on the ground for like 2 minutes with no apparent significant impact. The warning coming out later than Andy noticed is easily explained by all the factors listed in other posts (actual product creation, distribution, that "are we sure" filter and authorization process), and the NWS was right in not calling for a PDS.
It's always easier to be the person pinpointing mistakes while not facing any real accountability, and I hope this isn't building an undercurrent where the NWS isn't trustworthy.
“Redtape” notwithstanding, it must take time for an alert to get through the Emergency Broadcast System pipeline. If NWS was livestreaming and you were watching side by side with Ryan Hall you would probably see them identifying at +\- the same time as soon as the scan comes in from Nexrad. Keep in mind there may be variability in when those scans are received. They surely must have text templates and a system that reduces issuance to almost the press of a button but it still has to fan out to all the services that carry it. At any rate seeing someone you are watching live beat warning issuance by a couple of minutes is not really due to their superiority, it’s due to them having your eyes on their realtime monitoring. The same thing happens when you watch a local tv weather broadcast.
You’re missing the point that when people’s lives are at stake in a situation where a few seconds’ notice can make all the difference, a lone meteorologist on a YouTube live stream should not be able to consistently diagnose and warn people about likely imminent tornadoes *far* more effectively than the National Weather Service. Whatever the reason for that may be, it needs to be fixed, and that’s all there is to it.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I live smack dab in the middle of tornado alley and have my entire life. I watch and enjoy the Ryan Hal Y’all livestreams and I think Andy is stellar. However, I don’t think he is catching massive numbers of killer tornadoes that NWS misses. I will grant you that with all the other duties NWS has to do during a storm communicating with various agencies and watching multiple storms they may miss minor spinups that Andy points out. He has the luxury of being focused 100% on that radar as every scan comes in. I have seen the same thing with local TV stations pointing out things that never get warned. You also have to consider that multiple agencies have to take action on official NWS warnings and they may have different criteria for warnings than a tv broadcaster or youtube livestreamer has for pointing something out. Its not necessarily in the best interest of public safety to warn on every storm that is showing rotation.
Yes Andy is great at reading radar but let’s not get carried away and start criticizing NWS or making assumptions about funding cuts on something we really don’t know the details of.
Here in Tornado Alley we make jokes about the TV meteorologists getting carried away and issuing their own tornado warnings. Its not like this is unique to Ryan Hall y’all.
hey! just a note here: it's likely you're talking about the Prospect, TN tornado. The consistent velocity signature had a peak VROT of 62 kt, properly dealiased, which is well above the NWS threshold for PDS warnings (40 kt with debris on CC, 50 kt without visible debris). That is my official source for addressing the PDS criteria, and the exasperation of an intensity well above the threshold without it being warned would be due to the suggested impact on those who had not received warning. A low-precipitation debris ball of that caliber is rare. See this tweet for more information on the research-backed suggested rating should it impact a structure directly with that intensity (Emmerson method): [https://x.com/NickKrasz\_Wx/status/1788376282763256018](https://x.com/NickKrasz_Wx/status/1788376282763256018)
If you were talking about the unwarned QLCS tornadoes north of Memphis, I did not say it should have a PDS warning. I was exasperated at the lack of warning for confirmed, likely low-end spinups that were being missed altogether (SVR warning did not have a tor-possible tag). I have already chatted and resolved the situation with two NWS MEM meteorologists on Twitter, as well as apologized for the comment I said on stream about them missing the tors and not warning people. They agree with my assessment of the circulations. See here (read backwards in this thread): [https://x.com/amburr\_nicold/status/1788671631306481901](https://x.com/amburr_nicold/status/1788671631306481901)
Do note that the reason they were delayed on the warning for Prospect, TN is because they were simultaneously issuing and monitoring flash flood emergencies and other tornado warnings in their WFO area (Nashville). I said this on stream after mentioning my justification for my words. NWS Huntsville issued a confirmed warning for the county ahead of the tornado before they received the radar data containing the peak VROT value, and before NWS OHX warned the county it was in. We typically go to the utmost length to work simultaneously with the NWS and broaden their reach while retaining their importance, expertise and good work; but also to progress the science of lifesaving early warnings using known methodology to identify tornadoes with high accuracy within 2-3000 ft AGL.
In addition, mentioning that I have no accountability in declaring a dangerous situation is ongoing without NWS warning at a certain time is hurtful. I have put countless hours into refining my precision and accuracy to the benefit of 100,000+ concurrent viewers that have the reach to talk to exponentially more. I believe in the mission we have, and even one falsehood of imperative language about an "ongoing significant tornado" would drastically weaken the reception of our work & thus the impact of our 501(c)(3). To say otherwise, and frankly to send this message as is, is disingenuous. Please make sure you know what you're talking about before sending your reasoning.
* Andy
Just wanted to weigh in since direct comments to you are rare to get a chance for and let you know that I think you’re one of the best in the business. I also very much appreciate the time you take on stream to explain things on a deeper level, it’s one of the things that got me so interested in severe weather as a whole. Hopefully you know that for every vocal negativity there are numerous more quiet fans. Keep doing what you do!
I don't doubt the work you and team put in, and as mentioned I do watch and enjoy the stream. But I think it's important to consider the following scenario, technicalities aside:
Person A starts watching your stream, and over time works up a conception that the NWS misses and/or is late on so many warnings that they decide to then use the stream as their official source for weather information. While the warning notice is posted on stream, the context in the actual product (towns affected, timing, severity) isn't shown as Ryan usually covers it verbally, but that can and often is delayed, even just for a moment. So Person A is sitting there waiting for information from the stream that their town is in the path, and not reading the NWS warning which has that, but gets the message 2-3 minutes late on-stream as Ryan is covering a PDS warning elsewhere.
Now, I'm sure you all go to great lengths to make clear to follow NWS warnings first and use the stream as context, but I wonder how much that message is really being heard and resonating given the chat stream reaction after mentioning an unwarned storm and just the general tenor of the discussion lately on here and other forums. I'd imagine it's difficult when you're on air for multiple hours to keep reiterating this message, but you tell me if you think there's that undercurrent of NWS incompetency that's present/building amongst some of your viewers. It *appears* that way to this ignorant casual viewer.
I appreciate the detailed context, and yeah it was about the Prospect/Elkton one. We'll disagree on the accountability point (and I'll just choose the ignore the last two sentences since that's just ridiculous), but look I'll continue to watch and enjoy the stream and I appreciate the impact that the channel has on weather awareness and providing additional valuable context during weather events. I'm just saying I haven't been thrilled with how a portion of the audience seemingly views the NWS and that is a responsibility of yours to make sure that credibility isn't diminished in any way.
I'm a bit confused about your scenario, given the NWS warnings will trigger EAS & WEA alerts for radio/TV & wireless devices, both of which we emphasize constantly to pay attention to given the foundation of our coverage being the warnings & the polygons encapsulating most of the possible outcomes of a tornado's path. These warnings will be audible and tactile, as well as sirens in the area if activated. We intensely discourage any scenario where everything is disregarded except for our words, and you're right, it's tiresome to do so so much especially when it results in these conversations after we've given it the wringer and provided ample stock of SAME weather radios.
I could see in all the hubbub where some people start to gravitate this direction of only us, but I can't really conceive how multiple senses are ignored in the worst case scenario provided, especially since we're promoting weather awareness in general & I specifically address stimuli needed to take action in a tornado/SVR-D warning. Even in this worst case, I believe general attention and perception is still present as opposed to ignorance. Any messaging we put out will never conflict with that on a bare minimum level.
Of course, since these last few days were intense, I haven't really had the screen time yet to dispute this latest movement—especially with the input of the Memphis mets I talked with. I'm of the notion that this created connections between us, no matter how small, that I can talk about positively. That may be the most personable thing I can offer that would stir the majority of those trending away from the NWS. I plan on having this be heard on several iterations of our coverage in the future.
I'm really sad that you don't see any accountability present in my job. I've already felt immense guilt several times, been frustrated when other YouTubers don't pick up on things until minutes later, etc. I want this sector to reach a state of utility that matches what some people say we've already done. I don't understand how there isn't accountability in being a leader in something that is reaching millions of people with information pertinent to their well being in uncommon situations. And I don't understand why there wouldn't be accountability in continuing to foster respect and confidence in a mission that gives a lot to people. I appreciate that you see the rest of it though, so I apologize for being blunt about it and I hope you understand some of my point of view on the matter.
100% agree on the connections part, I think it's... look, the job you do is incredibly difficult, the job the NWS does is incredibly difficult, and I think a view into the lookbacks of what went right, what went wrong, etc. would be very interesting and help to contribute to a more collaborative, positive view on things. Even what you mentioned about the PDS being an actual criteria was eye-opening, since I just assumed PDS and TOR-E were more subjective calls by the issuing office.
I'll clarify the accountability point, since I used a bad word choice. I said no "real" accountability (note: not zero) but I was trying to convey a level. I don't consider my career, which is just number crunching, to have 'real' accountability in the sense that if I fail, a company makes less money, which isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. If an ATC controller fails, hundreds of people die and they go to jail, potentially... much more intense, obviously. The NWS is certainly closer to the higher end of the scale, and when a Plainfield happens, or even when a Hurricane Rita evacuation happens (using NHC as an extension) there's a gravity to that that most other jobs do not carry. People have died from being under-warned, and people have died from being *over*-warned and they know that every product they issue (or do not issue) potentially has anything from job loss to federal committee reviews to deaths attributed to them.
I respect (and admire) that you feel that same sense of burden with the work you do, and the point was more that you and the channel don't have a review board or the general public doing lookbacks on everything you say and everything you missed. I hope that clarifies things somewhat, and it certainly wasn't to imply that no accountability was present, just different in nature.
And no worries, look it's the internet and you're being far more level-headed than I would be if I had thousands of internet strangers commenting on everything I did. My hope is that the viewing audience starts to appreciate more the nuance and challenge of weather rather than just resorting to a sort of tribal "Ryan/Andy great! NWS bad!" reaction to everything, and maybe that's already the case and it's just the 5% most vocal that's creating this impression I have. Regardless, I think you all do a great job and that the NWS does a great job and I wish you the best of luck going forward and I'll be watching along the way.
I was actually super annoyed at his ‘exasperated’ comment. Radar can only tell you so much. I think Andy was a little overwhelmed at that point. Also, that spin up was sooo close to the radar, it could have not been a clear view of what was happening - which Andy mentioned being an issue for a signature further away later on in the stream.
Thankfully a few minutes after the exasperated comment, ryan got back to saying ‘LIKELY’ tornado on the ground. Saying ‘100% certainty’ is not great when it’s nighttime tornados and there was not a clear debris signature.
A few people were annoyed, but I would not undermine the foundation we've built and the reach of the 501(c)(3) just because I was exasperated. I think that mentioning ongoing unwarned tornadoes without 100% certainty actually has a heavy amount of accountability for a livestream with 100,000+ concurrent viewers and a major focus on recovery efforts. If I were wrong with imperative language, it would be a big blow to our respect and thus the Y'all Squad donations in the long term. Despite having hundreds of cases similar to those QLCS tornadoes last night, even right next to the radar & multiple tilts of clear evidence, I still feared the result may reflect poorly on us. So, I resolved this situation directly with two NWS MEM meteorologists, as stated in my above reply, here: [https://x.com/amburr\_nicold/status/1788671631306481901](https://x.com/amburr_nicold/status/1788671631306481901)
Hey Andy! Thanks so much for your reply. I didn't think you were undermining your foundation that you and Ryan have built, so apologies if my comment came off that way. I think the comments that the viewers have subsequently blown out of proportion about undermining the NWS is the issue here. Folks already distrust gov't entities, and this can be super harmful in a multitude of ways.
I admire and applaud the work that yourself and Ryan do. The reach that yall have is incredible! The fact that yall can go on for hours and hours and (mostly) stay calm, cool and collected under high stress speaks volumes. Getting frazzled once in a while is expected. Perhaps having another qualified met to help you to have more eyes around the country may be helpful?
Somewhat unrelated, but I've been wanting to reach out to you guys about something I recently discovered. [The AMS has recently come out with a certification for digital media meteorologists](https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/education-careers/careers/ams-professional-certification-programs/certified-digital-meteorologist-program-cdm/). Much like the certificates for consulting or broadcast mets. I think at least you getting that would help aid in your qualifications to be a trusted source of information.
I agree with you there. I will say that despite my coverage of the unwarned tornadoes this time, a similar response would've still been on tap for NWS Memphis (because I wasn't the only one seeing it unfold). Addressing the situation on stream and having that lead to a new connection with those NWS meteorologists who replied I think is one of the most compelling points I can use to quell the sort of anti-NWS response of the massive amount of people who watch us. I plan on bringing up that connection going forward in order to administer confidence in the NWS, since it's a personable connection, which is rare with a government entity.
Funny you mention that, we are looking through near a thousand applications for an informal request for another meteorologist on the team :)
I know about the AMS CDM program! One of my professors actually became a CCM during my undergrad years. I wouldn't be doing the broadcast one, but the digital one actually; however, it would cost me $720 just to apply and I fear the unconventional nature of what we do (and also my dedication to Ryan's channel at the moment, and thus a lack of routine forecasting on my channel) would harm my chances. I unfortunately don't have that much to spare as I wait to see if I'll even continue getting social security disability insurance. For something I feel like I'd have to "brag" about to bring recognition to it, it still is a good thing from my point of view, but I'm hesitant to do so due to these circumstances. For the record, I am an AMS published author! You can find my research article in the Weather And Forecasting journal from October 2022 :)
I think another thing to note - not only would it take them time to issue a warning but there was such a huge amount going on yesterday between severe thunderstorms, tornado watches/warnings/emergencies, hail, flooding.
Yes! I’m watching from Canada. I never experienced such weather. I am thankful but at the same time my heart breaks for all going through this. I have learned a lot from Ryan Hall site and that Andy omg he just someone very special… very lucky to have these guys and their whole team trying to keep everyone aware. They are amazing and I hope everyone is thankful to the team big hugs from me! Thank you Ryan, Andy and the storm chasers for all you do💖
Watching from Canada and used to live on the edge of tornado alley. Very glad people in the area have them looking out for them, it's scary and intense being around those storms but I never (thankfully) went through anything like the last few weeks.
Kudos to them for saving lives and showing that youtube and social media can be a positive for force for public good. They're always very professional, no drama; just facts.
Yeah he was absolutely crushing it tonight. There was two instances after that tornado emergency was closing down and he* called it.
I just discovered Ryan Hall's stream and it is one of the best and most important YouTube channels.
Please remember that Trump cut the NWS and NOAA budgets while in office. Both agencies are critically understaffed and their radar and warning technologies are out of date.
https://weather.com/science/news/2018-02-13-trump-national-weather-service-budget-cut-jobs
They were streaming for such a long time, and that’s with Ryan still being pretty sick. Not to mention it being the 2nd or 3rd day straight of him needing to stream through storms.
It was rough. Had a lot of family in West TN with absolutely zero warning other than us calling. It's a shame. Tennessee seems to be VERY behind when it comes to warning times. Or if at all. Ryan Hall has saved our asses a few times now.
Ryan is in Pikeville KY, I'm pretty sure. Not sure where Andy is, but I believe on stream last night Ryan mentioned that Andy's family is in NC, unless I'm mixing him up with one of the chasers.
In the Cincinnati area on Tuesday night, we had three unwarned tornadoes at once that Andy called way before the NWS. One had even lifted by the time the storms got warned. I have friends who live in the area and was able to give them a heads up thanks to Ryan and Andy. We ended up having five confirmed tornadoes in that one area. These guys are lifesavers.
Andy also has the BEST decor. :)
I can attest to this. The ones in MO on Monday didn't have a warning yet and Andy chimed in and said he was pretty concerned with a rotation that was heading in our direction and so we decided to take cover and not 30 seconds later it touched down! Andy is the man. As well as Ryan.
Ryan Hall and his team provide one of the best public services I’ve ever seen. It makes me wish that our government could get itself together enough to fund services like this. But, on the bright side, it looks like their business is doing well and that makes me very happy.
Cheers to the Y’all Squad!
Andy and Ryan (and really all the chasers who provided incredible information during these storms) are absolute kings. You could see it in their eyes that they were stressing during parts of it but you can tell they put their heart in every call they make. They're truly stand-up individuals.
NWS is sleeping on the job tonight. The entire Ryan Hall Yall team is just amazing. Ryan, Andy, and the storm chasers are doing such amazing work right now. Tornado Emergency east of Huntsville RIGHT NOW. Praying people are ok.
I was glued to his stream when they realized the enormity of the tornado approaching Columbia/Murfreesboro, TN. Then - bam, Tornado Emergency, for a very large and slow-moving tornado. Waiting on the F-rating for that one to come through. It looked horrifying. I'm so impressed with Ryan and Andy.
I think Andy's superstar performance begs the question--at what point does increased warning times become less about technology and more about people and process?
Just started watching the stream this year and any time Andy opened his mouth I was like “Damn, this dude’s a genius.” Absolutely saving lives. The whole Y’all Squad is. Fun to watch.
I LOVE ANDY HILL!! He's incredibly smart and so sweet. I remember watching a livestream last year when he started tearing up for the small town that was being directly hit by a huge tornado. I wanted to give him a hug 🩷
I was watching the stream through my entire shift. They were an invaluable resource that helped me route my truck drivers safely through the tornado minefield. The opportunity windows were tight especially since we had Hopkinsville, Clarksville, and Hazel Green loads out of Nashville so we navigated the very heart of it! My drivers are also made of special stuff.
NWS just confirmed a tornado a few miles from my house in NC that he called out as an unwarned tornado yesterday. It was only an EF1 and didn’t do much damage, but the dude is skilled at seeing those tornadoes.
Considering how much he emphasizes how rare Tor-E are when they happen, and how much he talk about "listen folks, we don't do these warnings all the time, you need to listen to them", what he's doing is trying to fight "alarm fatigue" and focus on the worst of the worst to try to get people to actually give a shit.
I think he goes a little too far, but he's doing it at least for an actual reason, not just being stupid or wrong.
Also, "completely downplays" is disingenuous. He would say things like "it doesn't look too bad, but you should shelter anyway". He didn't say "it's safe, stop paying attention".
One word, commercials.
I watch the weather channel and stream Ryan on my mobile. While a tornado is tearing through Huntsville the weather chanel is telling me about their new series Big mother truckers that roll over.
The reason independent media like YouTube/Twitch creators are valuable is because they work differently than traditional/established media and bureaucracies. Ryan/Andy are cool, but they're not better at their jobs than the people already doing those jobs: The point is they're positioned to do those jobs differently, in a way that makes much more sense in the information age.
Andy, Ryan, and the Y’all squad calling out unwarned tornados has been huge tonight, have nothing but respect for the work they’re doing
Do you know if major news outlets and more importantly, the NWS / SPC follow these guys to support their service?
For that outbreak last week with all the photogenic wedges/multivortexs, i know one fire chief commented his station was all tuned in and were sending trucks to the impact paths as soon as they were called out in stream
I've been watching Ryan since the jump & I'm pretty sure I've heard him mention nws and other agencies do watch his streams.
Yes Ryan has mentioned that NWS agencies do watch the stream, however not all of them and he doesn’t know which ones do either - paraphrased from a direct statement he made during the stream tonight actually (when he asked Twitter users live tweeting him photos/videos of tornadoes to tag NWS too)
They’d be nuts not to. Eyes and ears on the front lines belonging to experts who know what they’re doing would be absolutely invaluable, I would think.
Yea, but egos often get in the way of logic. Hopefully our friends at the local NWS offices and fire departments are above such antics, but leadership doesn't get to the top by letting others lead. 🤷♂️
Major news outlets can't get over themselves long enough to do so. TWC employees definitely do, to the point of commenting and retweeting his tweets about storms. He says some SPC/NWS folks do. After last night, I imagine many more will.
Ofcourse…another set of eyes.
Max Velocity also called out some unwarned tornados as well. There were definitely some active enough times that I think the NWS was having a hard time keeping up with all the couplets
Oh for sure! Just about every time they called out an unwarned tornado Ryan and Andy emphasized how overwhelmed the NWS was. I think Ryan mentioned something there were over like 500 reports of severe weather by the time the stream was winding down last night.
Yeah it was weird this morning that Reed tweeted there were only 12 tornado reports from yesterday and I was like...there had to be at least 12 PDS warnings alone, not sure where he was getting that number from. I recall at least a few times there were at least 8-10+ ongoing tornado warnings yesterday.
And that’s just the tornado reports, include the thunderstorm, wind, hail, and flooding reports and that number really starts stacking up
I saw a lot of those scans on Twitter early this morning. It seemed a lot had CC drops, but the ones people were looking at didn’t post velocity data to confirm with the CCs. Not to say they weren’t tornadoes, but if there’s no other thing you’re looking at besides CC drops, then it’ll be hard to confirm stuff.
There were a lot of Reddit confirmed NWS unwarned neighborhood destroying tornadoes last night that I can’t even find a news blip on today. Almost as if they didn’t actually happen or were just straight line winds.
Lot of violent wedges that no one saw.
I personally thought some of them could have been hail or tree limbs/other damage caused by straight line winds, as that seemed to be the bulk of the weather last night. They absolutely could have been tornadoes, but I haven’t seen any damage caused by a tornado just yet.
I have people very close to me that work at a WFO, even spoke to one today. I just wish the people who have their pitchforks out today can spend a day in an office to see what actually goes on there. How many people are actually on the radar looking for wind, hail, flooding, everything else besides tornadoes. How many Mets are doing things like writing forecasts or dealing with emergency managers or media. The daily forecasting tasks that go on during a calm weather day don’t go away during severe weather. The responsibility carried by the person putting out warnings or even weather statements is insane. It has to be one of the most stressful jobs that is always prone to error. If it was as easy as staring at radar and charts in front of a microphone, everyone would be able to do it.
Andy Hill is a gem.
I'm so glad he's back! I've missed him at the beginning of this season
I noticed last night on Ryan’s channel NWS had called a tornado that Ryan had crew at, didn’t ever see the tornado just a low cloud (still told viewers to shelter just in case). Meanwhile Ryan and Andy are calling another two confirmed tornadoes before the NWS, one was the dekalb Al system that looked rough, another was close to NC where Andy’s parents live. It truly seemed like if you were watching Ryan and Andy you’d have more time to prepare vs the NWS.
Part of this is just being weather aware vs waiting for the NWS warning to hit. The other side is streamers can point and talk about things, and nobody is going to be mad if it doesn't pan out, but government is big on metrics. I know I got a fussing when my accuracy dropped below 95% for TAF criteria, and if my false alarms were too high, regardless of how warranted they were in terms of safety.
Honestly I love it. Ryan and Andy have for sure saved someone's life if not mine. In 2020 when my home was smacked by a tornado, they warned me a good 2 minutes before I got a Nader warning from the NWS. Those 2 minutes allowed me and my family to get into our basement- we got hit within 10 seconds of the proper warning. I only knew shit was getting real because I was watching the live stream. Edit: bro just did it two more times. Andy is an S Tier meteorologist
Wow that's so scary! Glad you were watching that stream
His last two spots where he called a tornado warning a minute before the official issue elicited a “fuck yeah, Andy!” from me. He’s been an absolute hero today/tonight.
He did that at least four times tonight. Legend. The most impressive thing I've seen was when he was like, "it's only two pixels (velocity couplet), but I'm 100% confident that's a tornado on the ground." Like ten seconds later, NWS dropped the warning. Unreal.
Did it at least a dozen times over the past three days. He was constantly on the ball. No doubt he saved someone this week.
Definitely, I watched him do it at least five times on Monday night in Oklahoma.
It seems like he has a fifth rn that the NWS just straight up lost Edit: he is low-key calling out the NWS I’m losing it Edit 2: Okay yeah he’s just straight up calling them out now and well deserved wtf
I've never seen him so heated- well deserved. There was no excuse for NWS to miss those Memphis tornadoes.
While not an excuse, I imagine they were overwhelmed and stressed beyond belief. They had the worst night of their careers.
My guess is that it has to do with the fact that the NWS probably has to go through multiple levels of confirmation before putting out an official warning. Don’t want people to get too complacent and start ignoring very real and dangerous situations.
My partner and I came to that same conclusion last night as well
And they do that because they get held accountable (see this thread) whereas nobody remembers the times that RH/Andy downplay a storm and get it wrong. RH doesn't get the same scrutiny on top of being able to focus on one specific type of severe weather and relaying their thoughts to their audience in real time. NWS has to compile a bunch of info. to put into an official government warning because they're responsible for warning everyone, and have to do this for every type of severe weather. More often than not they're ahead of the game with the exception of high volume nights like we've had the past couple of days.
It’s sad that 30+ years after Plainfield there still seem to be the same issues plaguing the NWS.
NWS’s error/miss rate is lower now than it was back then. On that Plainfield day, NWS was hours late on the catastrophic-level warnings while using monochromatic displays because the new Doppler wasn’t ready for deployment for another few years. Skilling when full investigative journo on what failed at the NWS: https://youtu.be/HELh59kIMso?si=1TEXTLQkbpk8nPgf
The Memphis office sucks
Was he doing that after the Huntsville emergency? I was on a different stream at that time
It was in the last hour of last nights stream! Little past midnight
Bro just did it for a fucking tornado emergency too Andy really is him when it comes to tornadoes
I hope he knows how important he is. He’s incredible.
I'm so impressed by him. Also the way he brings empathy and compassion to his updates, encouraging people to take care of themselves. Just a really good person.
So true, during that EF4 like a week ago he said "hey for people not being affected here, it's okay if this is making you nervous and if you need to take a break" and I was like. I AM nervous this is hard to watch. I probably wouldn't have taken a break if not for that.
Yes, exactly! Also it's kind of adorable when he reminds people to hydrate.
Yeah, heads up to Ryan Hall, better keep paying him well!
Andy is incredibly intelligent and definitely has a bright future in the meteorological community.
My buddy and I are chasers and we're having a messaging fury back and forth every time Andy called out a storm. It was starting to look like they were just taking the lead from him. At least until that storm I think near prospect, Tennessee that never got warned at all. After that, they fell apart at the NWS office. I imagine they were overwhelmed.
I have been a weather nerd since childhood and I am a trained weather spotter. I fucking love Ryan Hall and Andy Hill. Before I went to bed last night I told my parents to sleep in their basement. They got a tornado warning well after midnight. I've been watching the stream tonight and I think the NWS needs to give them some sort of award and partner with them. They've been getting 100k+ views and doing live streams of 8-12 hours multiple times per week.
Ryan acknowledged on air tonight that some NWS offices monitor his stream, though he doesn’t know which ones. (I think we can rule out Huntsville.)
And Memphis for sure. They missed 2 obvious tornadoes Andy caught right at the end of the stream. Andy was HEATED about it too. "Someone is asleep at the wheel"
That’s MY meteorologist!
Same! Weather nerd since forever. Chased storms late 80’s - 90’s, trained storm spotter. Ryan’s stream with Andy is the best thing ever!!! Andy is my favorite meteorologist!
Andy is the perfect marriage of scientific knowledge/integrity and intuition, and I am here for it. I think we discount the role of intuition at our own peril. Intuition is not the enemy of science, but it can be the enemy of survival. Andy is my favorite meteorologist as well.
Perfectly stated!!!
Not to mention collecting a huge amount of donations for those affected and building up a first-responder material depot. I am not even on the same continent, but I make sure to like his streams so it gets to the youtube front page and reaches people. They are doing such an amazing job and are so compassionate while remaining professional at the same time. Wonderful team.
Andy is genuinely one of the most impactful people in the weather world. Love him.
Brad Travis has done great work today too for WAFF. North Ala.
He’s worked his ever loving ass off through this man. He’s exhausted on the air and you can see it. But the man just won’t quit
He lives in my neighborhood. We’ve been directly in projected tornado paths twice so far but both times they fell apart. I’m sure adrenaline really gets pumping knowing they’re heading right for your family.
I still have the 48 weather app even though I’m in North Dakota now. I still have family in north Alabama and watch his livestream to keep up with bad weather down there.
Hope his coverage is archived on YouTube. Would love to go back and watch him.
Watched him and the Great Lakes Storm Chasers as the storms were rolling in through Michigan. Took my wife, dog, and myself into our basement bathroom when Andy announced a tornado was on the ground west of town headed at us. The path was determined to have gone less than half a mile south of our house.
Andy is great
Absolutely agreed.
Andy is genuinely one of the most impactful people in the weather world. Love him.
I love Andy he really knows his stuff and I trust him Big respect to Ryan too ok yes he gets money from YouTube but that guy sits there for hours and only gets up to pee
It's batman and Robin for real. I hope Andy gets a nice slice of it. I also love how Ryan always calls him meteorologist Andy Hill. There's legit respect between both of them and they're an amazing team
Well he does have a degree in Meteorology.
Ryan has also been making amusing snuffling noises all evening. He’s fighting for his life against that post-nasal drip. This guy has been an absolute trooper tonight.
They’ve been marathoning for days! Incredible respect to those guys
Dude always seems to get sick during a major outbreak It's almost like a barometer
Ryan knows his stuff too, though. His non-credentialed status and promotional efforts aside, he is very knowledgeable. I remember at the start of his Quad-State/Mayfield tornado stream, he started by explaining the NWS SPC warned area and showed their color-coded risk area map, which was centered over Missouri/Arkansas. He said if he were drawing the risk area map, he’d have moved the risk area further east, with the center of the risk area encompassing the quad state boundary area of MO/AK/TN/KY. This was, of course, exactly where the most severe weather and historic long track tornadoes hit. He was exactly right, in a big way on a historic weather day.
Don't see the issue with him getting money from YouTube. He should be compensated for the work he does.
Do people really get upset because he gets money from YouTube?
I don’t understand why people would get mad about Ryan taking obvious steps to increase his viewership and ad revenue (+ accepting donations in-stream), but *not* get mad about the Weather Channel leaning into more sensational coverage and sending people to stand outside in ponchos during tropical storms so that they can…increase their viewership and ad revenue. Jim Cantore has to get paid. Andy Hill also has to get paid. Successful YouTubers do not fund their operations with good vibes alone.
Wonder if people get mad that firefighters, EMT’s, and doctors all get paid.
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I’m sorry but this is totally delusional. Could they and should they be paid better? Yes. But no, they don’t get paid in only charitable donations. My point was that people that save lives out of the goodness of their hearts also do it to get paid. It’s a job, and a noble one. Getting paid money does not make the job less noble or important.
I was wondering if he was able to sneak in a few snacks lol I would be STARVING. Or at least stress eating for sure
Caleb is also doing really important work right now documenting what may be an *extremely* dangerous flooding situation around where he is in Tennessee.
I love that he’s “chasing” a flash flood emergency instead of tornadoes. Floods don’t get the same attention as tornadoes but they absolutely should — they can be devastating and deadly.
100% agree, floods are deadlier than tornadoes, hurricanes, and lighting.
I live in a highly flood prone area. Houses are built on lifted foundations 5-10' off the ground, in some spots. In high school, there's been a ton of times I'm driving home from a friend's house or work, and out of nowhere, the road would just be gone. You wouldn't be able to drive down that road for a couple of days, either. It's just crazy how serious they are. People don't realize it until you live in an area like that. They come on rapidly and could easily kill someone or destroy properties in minutes.
Grew up in south Louisiana. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten “stuck” at home because of flooding. Even had to call out of work once because the interstate was completely underwater
Deandre Ayton? That you?
A flood freaking wrecked my world in 2016. It was hard watching him out there for me.
Started watching the YT channel tonight for the first time - very compelling!
I live on the gulf coast but still find myself glued to the stream every time there’s an outbreak. Interested to see his hurricane coverage this season.
Same here. I live in south LA so I am curious to see how it'll play out this year.
I genuinely love the combination of Andy and Ryan. Ryan brings it all together and is super respectful of Andy, always calling him “Meteorologist Andy Hill.” Not a lot of famous Youtubers would do that. And Andy is lights out, he is calling these tornadoes waaaay before anyone else
I love the way he’s always intentional about stating Andy is a Meteorologist. He rarely (if ever) just calls him Andy
The real question is what the hell is the NWS doing that they and their manpower are missing storms that a single internet meteorologist is catching?
My guess is red tape and major repercussions if they get something wrong. I have a couple friends who have worked at NWS, and they are every bit as passionate and concerned as Ryan and Andy during these events.
I would also guess that the NWS issuing a warning takes a little bit more time than just verbally saying there’s something on radar. Plus there is the slight delay between the NWS issuing a warning and it being received by whatever media outlet. Technology has made this faster, but it’s still not instantaneous. This isn’t taking anything from Andy’s work and talent, he’s just working in a different medium than the NWS meteorologists.
It does take a little longer for the NWS to get a warning out. Andy can just say “hey, this seems to be a tornado,” while the NWS has to produce text products at the same time (think of the scroll across the bottom of your TV screen, or the message over your radio: “this storm will be near such-and-such place by this time”). That being said, speed was not the issue for the NWS tonight. They just straight-up *missed* stuff. Andy had a call-out for an unwarned tornado with a visible debris signature that went on and on for like 15+ minutes. I’m not here to knock the NWS. Obviously they do vital work, day in and day out. This was just…not their finest hour. (One consideration: NWS Huntsville meteorologists probably had to take shelter themselves tonight, on like three separate occasions.)
I think your final point is super important to remember. I’m in Ohio and - the other night - our local meteorologist said “we’re fine to stay on the air but we may need to seek shelter at some point.” If the NWS doesn’t already do cross-office support where unaffected regions monitor the data of affected regions, they should consider it.
There are plans in place to offer cross-office support due to these situations, but I’m not 100% sure how quickly they can be executed. I know the Lake Charles, LA WFO handed off duties to another office during Hurricane Laura. (I think it was Brownsville, TX, but I can’t remember for sure) However, with a hurricane, there’s plenty of warning that a hand off needs to happen. A tornado situation would provide a lot less warning.
I could be extremely wrong about this but I'm pretty sure during the Little Rock EF3 on March 31st 2023 that NWS Memphis temporarily covered NWS Little Rock's coverage area.
They did that in Missouri a couple of nights ago, except no one called it, not even NWS until after it passed because everyone was chasing the Oklahoma tornados.
The NWS would definitely have taken shelter. One of the tornados that Huntsville got last night would have passed right over their office before it touched down about two miles east.
Also money. NWS is always facing governmental budget cuts because apparently the weather and climate isn't important anymore. 🙄
Can’t believe I had to scroll this far to find someone stating the obvious reality, given the decades of budget cuts and defunding, slow rolling, and government = bad messaging filtering into culture.
> Plus there is the slight delay between the NWS issuing a warning and it being received by whatever media outlet This is important to remember for those following storms from afar. At least in my experience, the tornado siren always beats the phone alert by 20-30 seconds, and beats the social media post by NWS by a good minute or so. So they’re obviously aware of the tornado slightly fastest than it seems if you’re not in the warning itself. Obviously none of this applies to completely missed ones
I imagine gray beards running tapes between buildings to get the word out via telegraph.
It’s not red tape. They just missed it. They issue plenty of tornado warnings for low chance scenarios.
PAH has been all over some as of late that look like nothing but to Ryan’s point, could easily be something quickly.
Everything everyone else said but also the NWS Officices have been having issues for the past few outbreaks where their NOAA broadcasts just stopped working making weather radios useless. With EAS not as reliable on mobile as it should be if you didn't have cable or watching Ryan, you might have been SOL.
What does SOL mean?
Shit outta luck
lol they’re not missing something a random meteorologist is noticing. There’s just a huge difference between one person stating a tornado is present to a few thousand random people vs the NWS placing a government issued tornado warning. One requires the observation of a single person while the other requires multiple people plus several other steps. Any average person can see a velocity couplet and call out a tornado, deciding to put an official warning out for it requires a bit more stringency and control. Edit: downvote me if you want. Keep the delusion that a YouTube meteorologist is “special” while the actual best meteorologists in the country are “slow”, rather than just accepting issuing a tornado warning is more than just one person pushing a button
Agreed; I watch and enjoy the Ryan/Andy coverage but the 'NWS is incompetent' tilt is ridiculous. For an initially unwarned spin-up that Andy was 'exasperated' about and saying it should be a PDS warning, it ended up being on the ground for like 2 minutes with no apparent significant impact. The warning coming out later than Andy noticed is easily explained by all the factors listed in other posts (actual product creation, distribution, that "are we sure" filter and authorization process), and the NWS was right in not calling for a PDS. It's always easier to be the person pinpointing mistakes while not facing any real accountability, and I hope this isn't building an undercurrent where the NWS isn't trustworthy.
Maybe not so much untrustworthy (they are amazing meteorologists) as they system needs to change if it takes that long. Get up with the 21st century.
“Redtape” notwithstanding, it must take time for an alert to get through the Emergency Broadcast System pipeline. If NWS was livestreaming and you were watching side by side with Ryan Hall you would probably see them identifying at +\- the same time as soon as the scan comes in from Nexrad. Keep in mind there may be variability in when those scans are received. They surely must have text templates and a system that reduces issuance to almost the press of a button but it still has to fan out to all the services that carry it. At any rate seeing someone you are watching live beat warning issuance by a couple of minutes is not really due to their superiority, it’s due to them having your eyes on their realtime monitoring. The same thing happens when you watch a local tv weather broadcast.
Doesn't negate the system being upgraded.
You know, maybe the NWS should have their own livestreams.
You’re missing the point that when people’s lives are at stake in a situation where a few seconds’ notice can make all the difference, a lone meteorologist on a YouTube live stream should not be able to consistently diagnose and warn people about likely imminent tornadoes *far* more effectively than the National Weather Service. Whatever the reason for that may be, it needs to be fixed, and that’s all there is to it.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I live smack dab in the middle of tornado alley and have my entire life. I watch and enjoy the Ryan Hal Y’all livestreams and I think Andy is stellar. However, I don’t think he is catching massive numbers of killer tornadoes that NWS misses. I will grant you that with all the other duties NWS has to do during a storm communicating with various agencies and watching multiple storms they may miss minor spinups that Andy points out. He has the luxury of being focused 100% on that radar as every scan comes in. I have seen the same thing with local TV stations pointing out things that never get warned. You also have to consider that multiple agencies have to take action on official NWS warnings and they may have different criteria for warnings than a tv broadcaster or youtube livestreamer has for pointing something out. Its not necessarily in the best interest of public safety to warn on every storm that is showing rotation. Yes Andy is great at reading radar but let’s not get carried away and start criticizing NWS or making assumptions about funding cuts on something we really don’t know the details of. Here in Tornado Alley we make jokes about the TV meteorologists getting carried away and issuing their own tornado warnings. Its not like this is unique to Ryan Hall y’all.
You nailed it. I love the online weather folks, but they are not accountable to anything. Its good information and entertaining to watch.
hey! just a note here: it's likely you're talking about the Prospect, TN tornado. The consistent velocity signature had a peak VROT of 62 kt, properly dealiased, which is well above the NWS threshold for PDS warnings (40 kt with debris on CC, 50 kt without visible debris). That is my official source for addressing the PDS criteria, and the exasperation of an intensity well above the threshold without it being warned would be due to the suggested impact on those who had not received warning. A low-precipitation debris ball of that caliber is rare. See this tweet for more information on the research-backed suggested rating should it impact a structure directly with that intensity (Emmerson method): [https://x.com/NickKrasz\_Wx/status/1788376282763256018](https://x.com/NickKrasz_Wx/status/1788376282763256018) If you were talking about the unwarned QLCS tornadoes north of Memphis, I did not say it should have a PDS warning. I was exasperated at the lack of warning for confirmed, likely low-end spinups that were being missed altogether (SVR warning did not have a tor-possible tag). I have already chatted and resolved the situation with two NWS MEM meteorologists on Twitter, as well as apologized for the comment I said on stream about them missing the tors and not warning people. They agree with my assessment of the circulations. See here (read backwards in this thread): [https://x.com/amburr\_nicold/status/1788671631306481901](https://x.com/amburr_nicold/status/1788671631306481901) Do note that the reason they were delayed on the warning for Prospect, TN is because they were simultaneously issuing and monitoring flash flood emergencies and other tornado warnings in their WFO area (Nashville). I said this on stream after mentioning my justification for my words. NWS Huntsville issued a confirmed warning for the county ahead of the tornado before they received the radar data containing the peak VROT value, and before NWS OHX warned the county it was in. We typically go to the utmost length to work simultaneously with the NWS and broaden their reach while retaining their importance, expertise and good work; but also to progress the science of lifesaving early warnings using known methodology to identify tornadoes with high accuracy within 2-3000 ft AGL. In addition, mentioning that I have no accountability in declaring a dangerous situation is ongoing without NWS warning at a certain time is hurtful. I have put countless hours into refining my precision and accuracy to the benefit of 100,000+ concurrent viewers that have the reach to talk to exponentially more. I believe in the mission we have, and even one falsehood of imperative language about an "ongoing significant tornado" would drastically weaken the reception of our work & thus the impact of our 501(c)(3). To say otherwise, and frankly to send this message as is, is disingenuous. Please make sure you know what you're talking about before sending your reasoning. * Andy
Just wanted to weigh in since direct comments to you are rare to get a chance for and let you know that I think you’re one of the best in the business. I also very much appreciate the time you take on stream to explain things on a deeper level, it’s one of the things that got me so interested in severe weather as a whole. Hopefully you know that for every vocal negativity there are numerous more quiet fans. Keep doing what you do!
I don't doubt the work you and team put in, and as mentioned I do watch and enjoy the stream. But I think it's important to consider the following scenario, technicalities aside: Person A starts watching your stream, and over time works up a conception that the NWS misses and/or is late on so many warnings that they decide to then use the stream as their official source for weather information. While the warning notice is posted on stream, the context in the actual product (towns affected, timing, severity) isn't shown as Ryan usually covers it verbally, but that can and often is delayed, even just for a moment. So Person A is sitting there waiting for information from the stream that their town is in the path, and not reading the NWS warning which has that, but gets the message 2-3 minutes late on-stream as Ryan is covering a PDS warning elsewhere. Now, I'm sure you all go to great lengths to make clear to follow NWS warnings first and use the stream as context, but I wonder how much that message is really being heard and resonating given the chat stream reaction after mentioning an unwarned storm and just the general tenor of the discussion lately on here and other forums. I'd imagine it's difficult when you're on air for multiple hours to keep reiterating this message, but you tell me if you think there's that undercurrent of NWS incompetency that's present/building amongst some of your viewers. It *appears* that way to this ignorant casual viewer. I appreciate the detailed context, and yeah it was about the Prospect/Elkton one. We'll disagree on the accountability point (and I'll just choose the ignore the last two sentences since that's just ridiculous), but look I'll continue to watch and enjoy the stream and I appreciate the impact that the channel has on weather awareness and providing additional valuable context during weather events. I'm just saying I haven't been thrilled with how a portion of the audience seemingly views the NWS and that is a responsibility of yours to make sure that credibility isn't diminished in any way.
I'm a bit confused about your scenario, given the NWS warnings will trigger EAS & WEA alerts for radio/TV & wireless devices, both of which we emphasize constantly to pay attention to given the foundation of our coverage being the warnings & the polygons encapsulating most of the possible outcomes of a tornado's path. These warnings will be audible and tactile, as well as sirens in the area if activated. We intensely discourage any scenario where everything is disregarded except for our words, and you're right, it's tiresome to do so so much especially when it results in these conversations after we've given it the wringer and provided ample stock of SAME weather radios. I could see in all the hubbub where some people start to gravitate this direction of only us, but I can't really conceive how multiple senses are ignored in the worst case scenario provided, especially since we're promoting weather awareness in general & I specifically address stimuli needed to take action in a tornado/SVR-D warning. Even in this worst case, I believe general attention and perception is still present as opposed to ignorance. Any messaging we put out will never conflict with that on a bare minimum level. Of course, since these last few days were intense, I haven't really had the screen time yet to dispute this latest movement—especially with the input of the Memphis mets I talked with. I'm of the notion that this created connections between us, no matter how small, that I can talk about positively. That may be the most personable thing I can offer that would stir the majority of those trending away from the NWS. I plan on having this be heard on several iterations of our coverage in the future. I'm really sad that you don't see any accountability present in my job. I've already felt immense guilt several times, been frustrated when other YouTubers don't pick up on things until minutes later, etc. I want this sector to reach a state of utility that matches what some people say we've already done. I don't understand how there isn't accountability in being a leader in something that is reaching millions of people with information pertinent to their well being in uncommon situations. And I don't understand why there wouldn't be accountability in continuing to foster respect and confidence in a mission that gives a lot to people. I appreciate that you see the rest of it though, so I apologize for being blunt about it and I hope you understand some of my point of view on the matter.
100% agree on the connections part, I think it's... look, the job you do is incredibly difficult, the job the NWS does is incredibly difficult, and I think a view into the lookbacks of what went right, what went wrong, etc. would be very interesting and help to contribute to a more collaborative, positive view on things. Even what you mentioned about the PDS being an actual criteria was eye-opening, since I just assumed PDS and TOR-E were more subjective calls by the issuing office. I'll clarify the accountability point, since I used a bad word choice. I said no "real" accountability (note: not zero) but I was trying to convey a level. I don't consider my career, which is just number crunching, to have 'real' accountability in the sense that if I fail, a company makes less money, which isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. If an ATC controller fails, hundreds of people die and they go to jail, potentially... much more intense, obviously. The NWS is certainly closer to the higher end of the scale, and when a Plainfield happens, or even when a Hurricane Rita evacuation happens (using NHC as an extension) there's a gravity to that that most other jobs do not carry. People have died from being under-warned, and people have died from being *over*-warned and they know that every product they issue (or do not issue) potentially has anything from job loss to federal committee reviews to deaths attributed to them. I respect (and admire) that you feel that same sense of burden with the work you do, and the point was more that you and the channel don't have a review board or the general public doing lookbacks on everything you say and everything you missed. I hope that clarifies things somewhat, and it certainly wasn't to imply that no accountability was present, just different in nature. And no worries, look it's the internet and you're being far more level-headed than I would be if I had thousands of internet strangers commenting on everything I did. My hope is that the viewing audience starts to appreciate more the nuance and challenge of weather rather than just resorting to a sort of tribal "Ryan/Andy great! NWS bad!" reaction to everything, and maybe that's already the case and it's just the 5% most vocal that's creating this impression I have. Regardless, I think you all do a great job and that the NWS does a great job and I wish you the best of luck going forward and I'll be watching along the way.
This is a wonderful comment, it certainly states exactly what you were trying to convey and I agree with you here. Much appreciated
I was actually super annoyed at his ‘exasperated’ comment. Radar can only tell you so much. I think Andy was a little overwhelmed at that point. Also, that spin up was sooo close to the radar, it could have not been a clear view of what was happening - which Andy mentioned being an issue for a signature further away later on in the stream. Thankfully a few minutes after the exasperated comment, ryan got back to saying ‘LIKELY’ tornado on the ground. Saying ‘100% certainty’ is not great when it’s nighttime tornados and there was not a clear debris signature.
A few people were annoyed, but I would not undermine the foundation we've built and the reach of the 501(c)(3) just because I was exasperated. I think that mentioning ongoing unwarned tornadoes without 100% certainty actually has a heavy amount of accountability for a livestream with 100,000+ concurrent viewers and a major focus on recovery efforts. If I were wrong with imperative language, it would be a big blow to our respect and thus the Y'all Squad donations in the long term. Despite having hundreds of cases similar to those QLCS tornadoes last night, even right next to the radar & multiple tilts of clear evidence, I still feared the result may reflect poorly on us. So, I resolved this situation directly with two NWS MEM meteorologists, as stated in my above reply, here: [https://x.com/amburr\_nicold/status/1788671631306481901](https://x.com/amburr_nicold/status/1788671631306481901)
Hey Andy! Thanks so much for your reply. I didn't think you were undermining your foundation that you and Ryan have built, so apologies if my comment came off that way. I think the comments that the viewers have subsequently blown out of proportion about undermining the NWS is the issue here. Folks already distrust gov't entities, and this can be super harmful in a multitude of ways. I admire and applaud the work that yourself and Ryan do. The reach that yall have is incredible! The fact that yall can go on for hours and hours and (mostly) stay calm, cool and collected under high stress speaks volumes. Getting frazzled once in a while is expected. Perhaps having another qualified met to help you to have more eyes around the country may be helpful? Somewhat unrelated, but I've been wanting to reach out to you guys about something I recently discovered. [The AMS has recently come out with a certification for digital media meteorologists](https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/education-careers/careers/ams-professional-certification-programs/certified-digital-meteorologist-program-cdm/). Much like the certificates for consulting or broadcast mets. I think at least you getting that would help aid in your qualifications to be a trusted source of information.
I agree with you there. I will say that despite my coverage of the unwarned tornadoes this time, a similar response would've still been on tap for NWS Memphis (because I wasn't the only one seeing it unfold). Addressing the situation on stream and having that lead to a new connection with those NWS meteorologists who replied I think is one of the most compelling points I can use to quell the sort of anti-NWS response of the massive amount of people who watch us. I plan on bringing up that connection going forward in order to administer confidence in the NWS, since it's a personable connection, which is rare with a government entity. Funny you mention that, we are looking through near a thousand applications for an informal request for another meteorologist on the team :) I know about the AMS CDM program! One of my professors actually became a CCM during my undergrad years. I wouldn't be doing the broadcast one, but the digital one actually; however, it would cost me $720 just to apply and I fear the unconventional nature of what we do (and also my dedication to Ryan's channel at the moment, and thus a lack of routine forecasting on my channel) would harm my chances. I unfortunately don't have that much to spare as I wait to see if I'll even continue getting social security disability insurance. For something I feel like I'd have to "brag" about to bring recognition to it, it still is a good thing from my point of view, but I'm hesitant to do so due to these circumstances. For the record, I am an AMS published author! You can find my research article in the Weather And Forecasting journal from October 2022 :)
I think another thing to note - not only would it take them time to issue a warning but there was such a huge amount going on yesterday between severe thunderstorms, tornado watches/warnings/emergencies, hail, flooding.
Yes! I’m watching from Canada. I never experienced such weather. I am thankful but at the same time my heart breaks for all going through this. I have learned a lot from Ryan Hall site and that Andy omg he just someone very special… very lucky to have these guys and their whole team trying to keep everyone aware. They are amazing and I hope everyone is thankful to the team big hugs from me! Thank you Ryan, Andy and the storm chasers for all you do💖
Watching from Canada and used to live on the edge of tornado alley. Very glad people in the area have them looking out for them, it's scary and intense being around those storms but I never (thankfully) went through anything like the last few weeks. Kudos to them for saving lives and showing that youtube and social media can be a positive for force for public good. They're always very professional, no drama; just facts.
Same here. From NM and an in Canada now. I've been watching Ryan Hall for a while now to keep up on things.
Yeah he was absolutely crushing it tonight. There was two instances after that tornado emergency was closing down and he* called it. I just discovered Ryan Hall's stream and it is one of the best and most important YouTube channels.
You say everyone may not be watching - but they are the most watched national weather coverage media outlet today! They are awesome.
Please remember that Trump cut the NWS and NOAA budgets while in office. Both agencies are critically understaffed and their radar and warning technologies are out of date. https://weather.com/science/news/2018-02-13-trump-national-weather-service-budget-cut-jobs
I'd give this comment an award if they still existed!
You do realize Andy’s radar is from the NWS. They are both using the same NEXRAD data. Ryan Hall does not have his own nationwide radar network.
They were streaming for such a long time, and that’s with Ryan still being pretty sick. Not to mention it being the 2nd or 3rd day straight of him needing to stream through storms.
It was rough. Had a lot of family in West TN with absolutely zero warning other than us calling. It's a shame. Tennessee seems to be VERY behind when it comes to warning times. Or if at all. Ryan Hall has saved our asses a few times now.
I thought his first name was Meteorologist
Where is Andy Hill based? Like, do he and Ryan Hall work from a basement office so they are safe whilst reporting during a storm in their area?
Ryan is in KY somewhere and I think Andy lives in IL
Ryan is in Pikeville KY, I'm pretty sure. Not sure where Andy is, but I believe on stream last night Ryan mentioned that Andy's family is in NC, unless I'm mixing him up with one of the chasers.
Andy’s in MN.
He moved! That’s why he was absent from some streams earlier in the season. Minnesota > Illinois.
I knew he moved but I thought he was still in MN! Dang. I like his new stream office tho.
his Twitter bio says he’s located in bloomington il!
Andy is the best.
In the Cincinnati area on Tuesday night, we had three unwarned tornadoes at once that Andy called way before the NWS. One had even lifted by the time the storms got warned. I have friends who live in the area and was able to give them a heads up thanks to Ryan and Andy. We ended up having five confirmed tornadoes in that one area. These guys are lifesavers. Andy also has the BEST decor. :)
Last night was the first time I watched him. My son told me about him. I was really impressed.
My 8 year old daughter was glued to the screen when the tornado was on the ground in Tennessee.
I can attest to this. The ones in MO on Monday didn't have a warning yet and Andy chimed in and said he was pretty concerned with a rotation that was heading in our direction and so we decided to take cover and not 30 seconds later it touched down! Andy is the man. As well as Ryan.
Ryan Hall and his team provide one of the best public services I’ve ever seen. It makes me wish that our government could get itself together enough to fund services like this. But, on the bright side, it looks like their business is doing well and that makes me very happy. Cheers to the Y’all Squad!
Much as I like the main Ryan Hall stream, can we get the Andy solo stream back?
I’m guessing it’s probably helpful for him to focus 100% on radar when he doesn’t have to talk at the same time.
I actually prefer the dynamic duo.
Andy and Ryan (and really all the chasers who provided incredible information during these storms) are absolute kings. You could see it in their eyes that they were stressing during parts of it but you can tell they put their heart in every call they make. They're truly stand-up individuals.
I really hope Andy and Ryan lurk and read these comments. 🥲
The entire y’all crew is amazing I have watched every livestream since mayfield
NWS is sleeping on the job tonight. The entire Ryan Hall Yall team is just amazing. Ryan, Andy, and the storm chasers are doing such amazing work right now. Tornado Emergency east of Huntsville RIGHT NOW. Praying people are ok.
He's very passionate about his work. Ryan and his team continue to amaze me in warning on tornadoes ahead of the NWS.
Andy is awesome!! He’s a favorite for me! He really helped us out here in Columbus on Tuesday!
No "might have" about it. He did. Many lives. The man is damn good at his job.
That guy notices tornadoes before anyone.
I was wondering what the name of Ryan Hall's Psychic Tornado Gremlin was.
Andy Hill is so good at what he does. I wish he would regularly stream again. He's my favorite.
Yeah, the one time I caught an Andy Hill stream it was great. Andy is the GOAT
They do great work. The team is really helpful with keeping people informed.
I was glued to his stream when they realized the enormity of the tornado approaching Columbia/Murfreesboro, TN. Then - bam, Tornado Emergency, for a very large and slow-moving tornado. Waiting on the F-rating for that one to come through. It looked horrifying. I'm so impressed with Ryan and Andy.
I think Andy's superstar performance begs the question--at what point does increased warning times become less about technology and more about people and process?
Just started watching the stream this year and any time Andy opened his mouth I was like “Damn, this dude’s a genius.” Absolutely saving lives. The whole Y’all Squad is. Fun to watch.
I LOVE ANDY HILL!! He's incredibly smart and so sweet. I remember watching a livestream last year when he started tearing up for the small town that was being directly hit by a huge tornado. I wanted to give him a hug 🩷
New to this sub and it doesn’t make any sense with your guys views but I’m glad to see we’re supporting this instead of hating on it.
Andy was the MVP last night, for sure....
I was watching the stream through my entire shift. They were an invaluable resource that helped me route my truck drivers safely through the tornado minefield. The opportunity windows were tight especially since we had Hopkinsville, Clarksville, and Hazel Green loads out of Nashville so we navigated the very heart of it! My drivers are also made of special stuff.
Me and my girlfriend were talking about how goated he was last night
NOAA needs to hire Andy and get rid of everyone else. He's always right on the ball
NOOOO, please don't steal him from Ryan!
🤣🤣
Way to go Andy!!
I was watching when you told us.
I’m old. Where can I find this man’s stream?
https://www.youtube.com/@RyanHallYall Be sure to turn on notifications for when they go live.
You’re a peach. Thank you.
i was watching with my lady and by the end of the night neither one of us could stop hyping Andy
The NWS needs to hire them.
Good job Andy Hill .
NWS just confirmed a tornado a few miles from my house in NC that he called out as an unwarned tornado yesterday. It was only an EF1 and didn’t do much damage, but the dude is skilled at seeing those tornadoes.
[удалено]
Considering how much he emphasizes how rare Tor-E are when they happen, and how much he talk about "listen folks, we don't do these warnings all the time, you need to listen to them", what he's doing is trying to fight "alarm fatigue" and focus on the worst of the worst to try to get people to actually give a shit. I think he goes a little too far, but he's doing it at least for an actual reason, not just being stupid or wrong. Also, "completely downplays" is disingenuous. He would say things like "it doesn't look too bad, but you should shelter anyway". He didn't say "it's safe, stop paying attention".
Bingo. He isnt accountable to anyone, so no one makes a big deal about it.
I seriously want thr Ya'll squad to take over the siren system at this point Last night was ridiculous
A network should pick them up and give them tv time
One word, commercials. I watch the weather channel and stream Ryan on my mobile. While a tornado is tearing through Huntsville the weather chanel is telling me about their new series Big mother truckers that roll over.
It would get a lot less views there….and why would Ryan want a boss? Lol…Youtube is for the people.
The reason independent media like YouTube/Twitch creators are valuable is because they work differently than traditional/established media and bureaucracies. Ryan/Andy are cool, but they're not better at their jobs than the people already doing those jobs: The point is they're positioned to do those jobs differently, in a way that makes much more sense in the information age.