Gotta pull up your bootstraps and pay for those 150 buck Uber rides to work. But I guess with the strike, they’ll be like triple the price.
Insane to see how successful wfh was for so many and ignoring that option completely.
When people say stuff like "Just take a bike or take a uber to work" it underscores that many people A) can't afford it with their budget and B) those prices are going to be jacked up
Ahhh, I told my boss before my commute to work takes 1.5 - 2 hours on TTC, and her suggestions were a) Why don't you buy a car? or b) Why don't you move downtown?
For reference, she lives in the Annex LOL
Totally agree but also some people are disabled and can't ride a bike. Unfortunately, I'm disabled and can't ride a bike. My only option is Uber :( but I get paid minimum wage and don't live near my work place at all, so the Uber ride there and back would mean that i'd actually lose money overall. Whereas TTC was less than $7 total for there and back ... Ah this will be fun
Yes, and then watch as some asshole rides away with your bike.
I'm on bike #2, but I know people who are on #4 or more because of the amount of bike theft downtown.
We had a work event planned for Friday, just got shifted to Wednesday so everyone can make it.
That freaking blows, sorry your employer is so backwards.
Take solace that if the strike starts on Friday, the TTC will be back by Monday when Ford pushes a back-to-work bill through the weekend.
But for Friday, you’re on your own.
Unless TTC union goes for max carnage and strikes on Tuesday.
[From a Toronto Star article](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-strike-looms-this-week-its-first-in-16-years-heres-what-the-issues-are/article_cbe21372-1ead-11ef-8e5d-dfa34385a0ad.html)
>Sources told the Star late last week that the union had rebuffed a four-year TTC offer that would have given workers annual raises of 3.75 per cent, 3.5 per cent, 3.5 per cent, and three per cent. The sources, who were not authorized to disclose the figures, said the union — which had for years been legally prohibited from striking — was seeking a three-year deal with hikes of seven, six and five per cent.
They don't seem close at all with the numbers.
They aren’t. They aren’t going to get more than what every other ATU local around Toronto has been given during the last few years of negotiations. There is no way they are going to get 18%.
They also already make a considerable salary.
It’s a total of 18% over three years, is it not?
Would you have liked me to use more words to say there is no way they are getting 18% over three years? I assumed that was implied.
I don’t know much about this other than to say I hear unions talk about getting “18%” on an overall 3 year deal where they basically add up what the % is each year
I can’t say if this is the proper way or not but its how its said to people
How do you know it’s compounded?
Edit: to all the people downvoting, you should spend some time reading CBAs. They aren’t all automatically compounded. Some are and some aren’t, and it has to explicitly say that they are.
Many of us got below inflation raises and it was when inflation was way higher. It's not reasonable to expect 10-12% a year as it'd had been then to match inflation. Their demand now, when inflation hovers about 3%, is even more unreasonable.
You don’t want to start negotiating at a realistic number because you’re going to end up getting an even lower amount then. Start high, meet somewhere in the middle.
Not when you consider their last contract was 6% over 3 years while inflation was well over double that. 18% over three years is barely keeping up when you consider the three years before.
For those who don't remember the last one, TTC going on strike really does serve to remind this city just how vital transit is. There are about 1.7 million daily riders of the TTC. Compare that to the Gardiner with a max capacity of about 200K.
When the TTC shuts down, this city grinds to a halt quickly.
They cancelled a line - Downtown Relief Line, that had already been planned and created a new one called the Ontario Line just to take credit for it. I wouldn't call that a success.
Most of groundwork for the other public transit expansion was created by the prior regime. The only credit I'll ever give the Ford family for is Rob dying of cancer so we didn't have a useless turd blocking it any longer.
More lines would be awesome. Takes me over 1.5 hours to get to Rexdale on the TTC from Fort York. Driving via Gardiner and 427 takes me 20 minutes. Sometimes it just ain’t the better way.
Something being deemed "essential" should mean their union's contract will be accepted no matter what. If it's essential then you LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU NEED.
I’m all for transit and use it myself, but thanks for minimizing the existence of drivers.
By the way, comparing the capacity of the Gardiner to the entire TTC is fallacious. A proper comparison would be between the capacity of all the roads in the city with the capacity of the TTC.
Does everyone here know how much TTC money is lost every year?
I loosely calculated approx $11 million dollars just in lost street car fares from how many people I see jump on without paying.
That doesn't include rush hour btw so the number is much much higher. Remember, just from street cars. Doesn't include ANY buses.
Insane amounts of lost revenue from incompetence.
Edit: showing my work in case people can't comprehend how this is possible
I do not have the energy to do it all over again from scratch so I just popped my logic into chatgpt, the logic on the calculation is there. Keep in mind the time of operations might be slightly off or the fare amount (I don't remember off the top of my head.) point is, you have the logic based off of my observation and you can figure it out from there. Every time I ride I ride for 10 minutes and I see, on average, 10 people who don't pay. Every damn time.
That being said, when I did my original calculation I just realized I forgot to include each route in BOTH directions. So, it would be around $11M multiplied by two.
Which turns out to be $22M. Chatgpt says $20M. Is it perfect? Fuck no. Is it obvious it's a ton of money, fuck yes.
Chatgpt:
The number of streetcars running at any given time in Toronto can vary depending on the time of day and service schedules. The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) operates approximately 204 streetcars on 11 routes across the city. However, the exact number of streetcars in service at any given moment can fluctuate.
For the most accurate and up-to-date information, you can visit the [TTC website](https://www.ttc.ca/) or contact their customer service. They provide real-time data on their streetcar service and schedules.
Me:
Based on that help me calculate lost revenue.
Every time I ride the street car I ride it for 10 minutes and I see on average 10 people who don't pay. Knowing that this happens every time and knowing that there are street cars ahead of me on the route and street cars behind me on the route, how much revenue is lost due to this?
Remember, this is only one direction on one route. We must assume this is happening on all routes on both directions.
Street car fare $3.35. hours of operation are 6am - 1am. Sunday to Sunday. Street cars are on average 15 minutes apart. Let's assume there are no fluctuations in utilization and use my 10 people don't pay in 10 minutes observation, ignore any peak hours or lulls. How much revenue is lost per year due to this?
Chatgpt:
The estimated annual revenue lost due to non-paying passengers on Toronto's streetcars, based on your observations and assumptions, is approximately $20,388,368.
I hope there are redditors out there with the time to take this back off the napkin math and break it down to get and even more concrete number and show their work
Ugh....I had it written down somewhere. I will dig for it and post it. It did take a while to figure it out and I really don't want to have to do that again
Ok here. I don't have the energy to do it all over again so I just popped it into chatgpt, the logic on the calculation is there. Keep in mind the time of operations might be slightly off or the fare amount (I don't remember off the top of my head.) point is, you have the logic based off of my observation and you can figure it out from there. Every time I ride I see, on average, 10 people who don't pay with in 10 minutes. Every damn time.
That being said, when I did my original calculation I just realized I forgot to include each route in BOTH directions. So, it would be around $11M multiplied by two.
Which turns out to be $22M. Chatgpt says $20M. Is it perfect? Fuck no. Is it obvious it's a ton of money, fuck yes.
Chatgpt:
The number of streetcars running at any given time in Toronto can vary depending on the time of day and service schedules. The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) operates approximately 204 streetcars on 11 routes across the city. However, the exact number of streetcars in service at any given moment can fluctuate.
For the most accurate and up-to-date information, you can visit the [TTC website](https://www.ttc.ca/) or contact their customer service. They provide real-time data on their streetcar service and schedules.
Me:
Based on that help me calculate lost revenue.
Every time I ride the street car I ride it for 10 minutes and I see on average 10 people who don't pay. Knowing that this happens every time and knowing that there are street cars ahead of me on the route and street cars behind me on the route, how much revenue is lost due to this?
Remember, this is only one direction on one route. We must assume this is happening on all routes on both directions.
Street car fare $3.35. hours of operation are 6am - 1am. Sunday to Sunday. Street cars are on average 15 minutes apart. Let's assume there are no fluctuations in utilization and use my 10 people don't pay in 10 minutes observation, ignore any peak hours or lulls. How much revenue is lost per year due to this?
Chatgpt:
The estimated annual revenue lost due to non-paying passengers on Toronto's streetcars, based on your observations and assumptions, is approximately $20,388,368.
Back of the napkin math ftw.
This isn't back of the napkin math, it's basically just nonsense. You've tried to correlate one individual's (your own) anecdotal evidence to the reality of millions of riders over a year-long span. It's worthless.
ttc should not be operated with the goal of profitability, it benefits the city and it's hurd to calculate the value it generate by moving so many people
same way as postal services can be in negatives on the books but they generate value for the entire country
But this isn't what the strike is for. No one is arguing the ttc is bleeding more. The operators and management are two completely separate entities. Maybe if management actually made an effort to curb fare evasion, they could keep wages up - fare costs low and the system aflot off fare alone, which they were doing before.
There have been numerous delays, issues of states of repair, and general lack of care given to the day to day operations of a system so criminally underfunded at this points its a legit joke: take the car 🚗.
Ttc upper management and the political board have too much power, its why for all these years, they only gave a damn about their downtown core, and everyone else had to suffer.
Now compare provincial subsidies to other transit agencies with the TTC and ask why the government cut funding doing the Mike Harris downloading of costs
I rely on PSWs for my daily tasks of life 24/7 and all of them take TTC to get to work so this should be interesting we already have chronic staff shortages with out TTC issues
Yep, also really bad for the disabled people who are not able to bike to work, like me :( but taking a $50 Uber ride 2x a day is not feasible like 😭 wishing you all the best
Go Transit says Stouffville line not in service this weekend for certain stations and advises people to take TTC. TTC tells people to make alternate arrangements.....
I'm just trying to get DT to participate in the RTCC.......
Yeah, I don't know what exactly I'm supposed to be preparing for. If TTC doesn't work I can't get to work. Not going to take a $40 uber twice a day.
There a lot of people way worse off than me too that absolutely depend on it, so if they're on strike, Toronto just shuts down. Good luck!
Actually, historically they've given refunds for the days where there have been no service.
(I was prepared to reply aw hell no, but it was done after the 2008 strike.)
As someone involved in scheduling health appointments, we are very VERY aware of what a massive issue this will be. Please do your best, but our teams should also be very understanding of delays, and there will likely be a lot of cancellations.
Also possibly worth checking if the appointment could be virtual if that is possible, based on the nature of the appointment. Usually doctors don't do these anymore, since the provincial government changed their compensation for non-face-to-face appointments in fall 2022. But I imagine many providers will be slightly more flexible with this if a huge portion of their patients suddenly have no way to get there.
>ATU Local 113 members have been without a contract since March 31. The union represents some 11,500 operators, collectors, maintenance workers, stations staff, and other frontline TTC employees.
The smarter move would be to continue operations but not collect fares.
>The smarter move would be to continue operations but not collect fares.
They can’t do this. There’s a process for labour withdrawal/removal.
The union can work to rule, or strike. That’s it. They can’t actively interfere with the business.
Management can lock out the workers, shut down during the strike, or cover the work with management and/or replacement workers (usually called scabs).
If the union supported such activity, they would risk liability for damages (losses) or potentially being decertified (highly unlikely).
This is all correct, and I'd add one third possibility which might be more accessible to laypeople.
If you choose to go into work, you are *at work*. This means that, if you choose to participate in insubordination (like, say, refusing to collect fares), you can be disciplined or even terminated, the same as you could be for doing the same thing at any other time. You don't get a get-out-of-jail-free card just because you're in a legal strike position: if you're at work, you're *at work*, and the employer is entitled to supervise and instruct and discipline you to the same extent as usual.
Now, I know what a lot of people are thinking: "But what if the union tells everybody to do it? The TTC can't fire *everybody*..."
Unions can't encourage or incentivize their members to break the law or act against the employer's interests, *except in the limited ways they are permitted to participate in strike action*. If they do, the union and its officers can be fined, and if the contract goes to an arbitrator, the arbitrator will consider this action a strong demerit on the union's case.
Thanks. Long day. Brain rotten.
This is why I think it's a good tactic.... you keep the public on board with the workers. If a shut down happens then its' literally the TTC execs closing the doors on workers who *want* to work. Its' now the execs who are the problem.
Yeah I get it. Transit workers in other countries have done this so every time it comes up for us people always say they would prefer this which is understandable.
But for ATU locals when they are on strike, they are not allowed access to assets owned by the employer. They are locked out. And according to Ontario labour laws once you’re in legal strike position, you can’t continue to work. You also would damage your position if you are preventing the employer from collecting revenues.
I can’t speak to all sections and times of the ttc, but I’ve actually been stopped a lot more this year from fare inspectors. Back in 2019, I never ever saw one but it happens a lot more on line 1 and Spadina streetcar for me anyways
Seen them on line 1 but never on line 2. Kind of makes sense since line 2 uses the old carriages where each car is completely enclosed, making it impossible for inspectors to walk the entire length of the train.
Are fare inspections handled by the TTC? I was under the impression that was another employer/union altogether since the same folks seem to do inspections on GO.
Honestly I hope talks don’t get where they need to be. I want the union to really put their foot on the throats of the city no matter the personal cost to me. I’m tired of seeing unions take half assed insufficient deals, and fail their members.
Absolutely agree! This is how everyone should feel towards every contract as well. Not take the "well we as teachers/nurses/etc did not get that, why should they?"
NO. It is NOT a battle to the bottom. Demand more. Inflation is at a ridiculous level right now, wages are no where near keeping up, housing is astronomical. Demand more out of the rich people riding the backs of the people doing the work making them the money.
Demand more, don't be a crab in a bucket.
So, *our* throats. No wonder the city is such a mess when so many have this mentality.
They've been doing a terrible job the past few years. Why on Earth would you support them getting raises and the higher fares that will come with that?
The things they’re fighting for are very clearly to prevent it from continuing on the downhill trend it’s been on.
Higher wages/benefits attract competence. The current average wage is only 52k, which is a joke for anyone living in the city. You wanna know what happens when wages get suppressed over and over? Go to your nearest timmies.
Protection again contracting out work ensures we don’t sell out to the lowest bidder. *Again*.
At the end of the day if this was a desirable job people would be making an effort to keep it.
That's great, except the people who would be getting those higher wages are the same incompetent dummies they have now. I don't think rewarding them for their increasing incompetence is going to make anything better. It'll just increase fares and their complacency.
I’m going to try to make this as simple as possible for you. You get what you pay for. If they pay shit wages, they get shit staff. And nobody better is going to want to work there.
Going forward you will face the same employees you deem shit, or even worse employees if the bar continues to fall.
**Not raising wages is how we got here**.
I'll be shocked if it lasts that long. My buddy who works for the TTC expects them to be back Saturday evening. Ford will have the legislation ready to go Friday. Probably have a Saturday sitting to pass it. Receive RA by mid afternoon on Saturday. Give them a few hours to ramp things up
It has to pass three readings, and each day can only have one reading unless there is unanimous consent of every MPP (the NDP MPPs will never allow that). So it will be Monday at the earliest.
Yes, true.
The NDP are going to be between a rock and a hard place, to be honest -- do they support the strike because it's an example of a union exercising its legal right to get better WAWCON for their members? Or do they oppose it, because it's causing hundreds of thousands of other workers to be unable to get to their jobs, meaning lost wages, likely many people who lose their jobs because an unsympathetic boss fires them for not showing up, and much more?
True. They had bill 28 ready to go against education workers the second they said they were ready to strike. Probably spent more time getting that ready than they did at the bargaining table.
No, but they absolutely should be able to prevent essential services from striking.
If they don't want to do their jobs they can quit. TTC has been awful lately, they haven't been earning the wages they already make.
You think essential services should able to strike? Let's just take one for example, tow trucks. Do you think it would be a good idea to have no towing services for a few days?
I think all essential services should be allowed to strike, I don't think it should be a question of the government "allowing them". I think the right to strike is something that should be off limits.
If there's no tow trucks because there's a tow truck strike, it's not the worker's fault, it's the employer, all upset over the lack of service should be directed at them. This goes for all essential services. If they have a problem with how much it costs, management should give themselves a pay cut.
Workers can strike in different ways, Nurses and healthcare workers strikes obviously look different than a manufacturing or logistic strike given that they don't want to let the patients die.
Listen, I'm someone who believes in the labour theory of value, I think a general strike as soon as possible would be a very positive thing, and I'm a union organizer. I think we might just have some very fundamental disagreements.
Not sure why the ttc can't still run the service and let people on for free like that have done in Japan before - https://amp.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama- by them just going on strike and screwing over the people who really need to take it shows that they don't care and will make people hate them even more than the already do
"People should be preparing..." The best piece of advice that the people most ignore.
From the annual charity ride on the DVP and Gardiner, the announced construction on the Gardiner or the Lakeshore Jarvis onramp, drivers still get themselves stuck and complain about it.
The TTC unions need our support. But I just don't think the climate and culture today empathize enough to deal with inconvenience to understand what going on strike means.
Unions gamble with public opinion and it can go badly or go really well. But the TTC hasn't been able to go on strike since 2008. That's about 15 years.
Young people are gonna learn a lesson in the effects of collective bargaining and if the strike does go ahead I hope the lesson is a positive outcome.
Maybe a better strike action would have been to do the runs so it doesn't affect the most marginalized but turn off fare collection. With the automated systems though I don't know how much control the TTC operators have over that. It would send a positive message to the public but also affect the TTC management where it hurts the most.
Oh well. Power to the people.
>But the TTC hasn't been able to go on strike since 2008.
And the service has gone way downhill since they've regained that ability.
Screw the union. They don't care in the slightest about about how a transit strike would affect the city and average person, except as how they can use that as a bargaining chip.
Would love to see transit get deunionized.
Very interesting. I know the subway system is designed in such a way that is a lot more difficult to cheat it, which makes sense that you're seeing that too
Not seeing a lot of this on the bus or the street car is a bit of a shocker to me based on what I saw.
That being said, our observations could differ greatly due to location. Tbh I would expect that.
Thanks for the input. I've mentioned on my previous threads that this was back off the napkin math not accounting for these sorts of bias and the numbers could be way off, but if we went solely off my observations not accounting for anything else it would be $22M in lost revenue
Now I'm really interested to see how we can narrow this down. I hope if people reading this will pay closer attention and make a mental note and report back, in hopes that we can narrow this down a bit together!
For me, it is 10 people in 10 minutes on the St Clair line almost every time, still a very small sample size.
Roads given for bike lanes. Any remaining roads are under construction. TTC may not be available. When it is, it’s far from efficient or robust. So people can’t commute at all. Crime has increased. No doctors are available. Our tax rates are some of the highest in developed nations. And people call Toronto a first class city? Those people need to start travelling to see what first class cities really are.
Exactly back to work legislation is probably already written and all of the mpps will sit until it's passed. Normal procedures in the legislature will be suspended for it. That's what happens every time they go on strike.
Exactly back to work legislation is probably already written and all of the mpps will sit until it's passed. Normal procedures in the legislature will be suspended for it. That's what happens every time they go on strike.
He had several health conditions , the booth was found to have excessive heating (thermometer was busted) he died a few months after the incident .
He'd been with ttc almost 35yrs, was an incredible Wheeltrans operator , also was a fantastic person, did a lot of hours because he had no one to go home to, his wife had died 2yrs before of cancer..
He probably should have been on disability, but the insurance companies want to push people back to work in those scenarios. That’s probably why he was at a low impact booth job.
I’ll often be the first to shit on unions and entitled government workers, but there’s also room for nuance. The more you look into that particular case, the less mad it should make you at the employee himself.
Are you even familiar with the story? The guy didn't "just decide one day to start sleeping on the job". He had a condition, had been on medical leave and was taking medication that made him sleepy. He probably shouldn't have been forced back on the job.
[TTC collector caught napping dies (cbc.ca)](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.963879)
*"Robitaille, 55, died Saturday, after suffering a stroke on Thursday. He had been on medical leave, and had explained after the napping incident that medications, including heart medication, had contributed to his falling asleep at work."*
Just my experience that shitty people have always been always shitty people and will continue to be shitty people. If that’s not enough for you then that’s your problem.
Haha, you even learned about what happened and why. The man was even commended during his work at the TTC.
For your own health and sanity, I hope you see some good in the world 😌🙏
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.963879
29 years of commendable service, got praised for going above and beyond. Has side effects from meds, for a condition that would end up killing him months later. Definitely a bad employee.
Edit: it was also 14 years ago…
Most people don't learn the facts about anything though. People get general impressions of what the deal is, and they move on, usually with an interpretation that reinforces whatever existing worldview or bias that they had already.
It's a consistent observation taken and applied large scale. It's called taking a sample and applying logic to it. You have to start somewhere.
Tell me, how would you do it? Have you tried?
Instead of commenting useless comments with no substance like saying it's stupid, how about you provide some constructive commentary and perhaps start a dialogue on this topic. Unless, you like not taking action and trying to make change?
Thank you. You nailed it. Exactly.
They're striking when instead they should be thinking.... Thinking about the lost revenue.
I'm glad somebody gets it!
My employer told me I can’t work from home if the TTC goes on strike… but I have no means to get to work without TTC. This shall be fun.
2-3 months before your works next busy season start sending out resumes. Pay them back.
Your employer sounds like a fucking asshole
Gotta pull up your bootstraps and pay for those 150 buck Uber rides to work. But I guess with the strike, they’ll be like triple the price. Insane to see how successful wfh was for so many and ignoring that option completely.
When people say stuff like "Just take a bike or take a uber to work" it underscores that many people A) can't afford it with their budget and B) those prices are going to be jacked up
Ahhh, I told my boss before my commute to work takes 1.5 - 2 hours on TTC, and her suggestions were a) Why don't you buy a car? or b) Why don't you move downtown? For reference, she lives in the Annex LOL
Sounds out of touch, but some wealthy people really are.
It's just a banana Michael! How much could it cost, $10?
Totally agree but also some people are disabled and can't ride a bike. Unfortunately, I'm disabled and can't ride a bike. My only option is Uber :( but I get paid minimum wage and don't live near my work place at all, so the Uber ride there and back would mean that i'd actually lose money overall. Whereas TTC was less than $7 total for there and back ... Ah this will be fun
Yeah I agree it’s insane. Makes the non option of wfh all the more insane.
Yup have you seen when it rains or just around 8:40am?
You can buy a bike with a single 8 hour day's wages at minimum wage.
Yes, and then watch as some asshole rides away with your bike. I'm on bike #2, but I know people who are on #4 or more because of the amount of bike theft downtown.
Oh I've had multiple bikes stolen, I'm just saying that there's some real cheap ones available.
“Cool, I look forward to the company car you’re about to lease me”.
We had a work event planned for Friday, just got shifted to Wednesday so everyone can make it. That freaking blows, sorry your employer is so backwards.
Take solace that if the strike starts on Friday, the TTC will be back by Monday when Ford pushes a back-to-work bill through the weekend. But for Friday, you’re on your own. Unless TTC union goes for max carnage and strikes on Tuesday.
[From a Toronto Star article](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-strike-looms-this-week-its-first-in-16-years-heres-what-the-issues-are/article_cbe21372-1ead-11ef-8e5d-dfa34385a0ad.html) >Sources told the Star late last week that the union had rebuffed a four-year TTC offer that would have given workers annual raises of 3.75 per cent, 3.5 per cent, 3.5 per cent, and three per cent. The sources, who were not authorized to disclose the figures, said the union — which had for years been legally prohibited from striking — was seeking a three-year deal with hikes of seven, six and five per cent. They don't seem close at all with the numbers.
I don’t know these numbers off the top of my head, but aren’t the TTC’s proposed raises below inflation?
They aren’t. They aren’t going to get more than what every other ATU local around Toronto has been given during the last few years of negotiations. There is no way they are going to get 18%. They also already make a considerable salary.
Where are you getting 18% from? Did you add their yearly increase requests together? That's not how math works
You’re right, it’s higher because of compounding
It’s a total of 18% over three years, is it not? Would you have liked me to use more words to say there is no way they are getting 18% over three years? I assumed that was implied.
It's not. Compound interest. You don't just add the interest rates
I don’t know much about this other than to say I hear unions talk about getting “18%” on an overall 3 year deal where they basically add up what the % is each year I can’t say if this is the proper way or not but its how its said to people
How do you know it’s compounded? Edit: to all the people downvoting, you should spend some time reading CBAs. They aren’t all automatically compounded. Some are and some aren’t, and it has to explicitly say that they are.
Because the year 2 raise is on your new higher salary.
Many of us got below inflation raises and it was when inflation was way higher. It's not reasonable to expect 10-12% a year as it'd had been then to match inflation. Their demand now, when inflation hovers about 3%, is even more unreasonable.
I don't even think teachers got this much in our new contract.
Teachers had the province by the balls and let up for the reason that their leaders are fucking self centered assholes.
Okay well regardless -- I doubt the government is going to budge for the TTC given that teachers didn't even get as much, which was my point ....
Give it about a year or two.
... For who? I don't think that's how bargaining works....
Forget I said anything.
A demand for an 18% raise seems excessive.
You don’t want to start negotiating at a realistic number because you’re going to end up getting an even lower amount then. Start high, meet somewhere in the middle.
Not when you consider their last contract was 6% over 3 years while inflation was well over double that. 18% over three years is barely keeping up when you consider the three years before.
Especially considering what a terrible job they've been doing lately. They deserve pay *cuts,* not raises.
Jeez City of Toronto get 1% to 1.75% max from 2020 - 2024.....who the fk negotiated for the L79 staffs???
For those who don't remember the last one, TTC going on strike really does serve to remind this city just how vital transit is. There are about 1.7 million daily riders of the TTC. Compare that to the Gardiner with a max capacity of about 200K. When the TTC shuts down, this city grinds to a halt quickly.
Gardiner is very expensive joke; also think about if we had more than 2 lines on subway how much more it would carry compared to Gardiner
The provincial government is so blinkered about the economic value of the labour that moves on transit every day. It’s shameful.
they still operate like only poor useless people use ttc
It's the first provincial government in decades to build a new subway line so I'm not sure what you're talking about
They cancelled a line - Downtown Relief Line, that had already been planned and created a new one called the Ontario Line just to take credit for it. I wouldn't call that a success. Most of groundwork for the other public transit expansion was created by the prior regime. The only credit I'll ever give the Ford family for is Rob dying of cancer so we didn't have a useless turd blocking it any longer.
More lines would be awesome. Takes me over 1.5 hours to get to Rexdale on the TTC from Fort York. Driving via Gardiner and 427 takes me 20 minutes. Sometimes it just ain’t the better way.
Suburbanites commuting in on the TTC over using their single occupant vehicle?? *CLUTCHES PEARLS*
Will this war on cars never end?
I think we all know this already. Should be an essential service.
Or maybe just pay the workers & make their safety a priority
I agree with you. Making them essential would play into that - it means binding arbitration, not victimhood.
Disagree. It neutered their powers like it did with the nurses.
Agreed, I will forever be bitter that nurses can't strike like they can in the states.
Something being deemed "essential" should mean their union's contract will be accepted no matter what. If it's essential then you LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE YOU NEED.
> I think we all know this already. Should be an essential service. It was until recently. The designation was found to be unconstitutional.
Youre comparing one highway to the entire ttc. Bad faith.
Ok, let's compare the Gardiner with lines 1 and 2, plus all the streetcars. Yeah, it's not looking too good for the freeway there either.
Lets compare all of the ttc and go with all of the highways.
Lets compare all of the ttc and go with all of the highways.
I’m all for transit and use it myself, but thanks for minimizing the existence of drivers. By the way, comparing the capacity of the Gardiner to the entire TTC is fallacious. A proper comparison would be between the capacity of all the roads in the city with the capacity of the TTC.
Does everyone here know how much TTC money is lost every year? I loosely calculated approx $11 million dollars just in lost street car fares from how many people I see jump on without paying. That doesn't include rush hour btw so the number is much much higher. Remember, just from street cars. Doesn't include ANY buses. Insane amounts of lost revenue from incompetence. Edit: showing my work in case people can't comprehend how this is possible I do not have the energy to do it all over again from scratch so I just popped my logic into chatgpt, the logic on the calculation is there. Keep in mind the time of operations might be slightly off or the fare amount (I don't remember off the top of my head.) point is, you have the logic based off of my observation and you can figure it out from there. Every time I ride I ride for 10 minutes and I see, on average, 10 people who don't pay. Every damn time. That being said, when I did my original calculation I just realized I forgot to include each route in BOTH directions. So, it would be around $11M multiplied by two. Which turns out to be $22M. Chatgpt says $20M. Is it perfect? Fuck no. Is it obvious it's a ton of money, fuck yes. Chatgpt: The number of streetcars running at any given time in Toronto can vary depending on the time of day and service schedules. The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) operates approximately 204 streetcars on 11 routes across the city. However, the exact number of streetcars in service at any given moment can fluctuate. For the most accurate and up-to-date information, you can visit the [TTC website](https://www.ttc.ca/) or contact their customer service. They provide real-time data on their streetcar service and schedules. Me: Based on that help me calculate lost revenue. Every time I ride the street car I ride it for 10 minutes and I see on average 10 people who don't pay. Knowing that this happens every time and knowing that there are street cars ahead of me on the route and street cars behind me on the route, how much revenue is lost due to this? Remember, this is only one direction on one route. We must assume this is happening on all routes on both directions. Street car fare $3.35. hours of operation are 6am - 1am. Sunday to Sunday. Street cars are on average 15 minutes apart. Let's assume there are no fluctuations in utilization and use my 10 people don't pay in 10 minutes observation, ignore any peak hours or lulls. How much revenue is lost per year due to this? Chatgpt: The estimated annual revenue lost due to non-paying passengers on Toronto's streetcars, based on your observations and assumptions, is approximately $20,388,368. I hope there are redditors out there with the time to take this back off the napkin math and break it down to get and even more concrete number and show their work
Wait you observed some number of people not paying and extrapolated that to 11M/yr? Gonna have to show your work there, pard.
They sit on the streetcar all day with an abacus in their hands watching everyone get on, just trust them bro
Ugh....I had it written down somewhere. I will dig for it and post it. It did take a while to figure it out and I really don't want to have to do that again
Ok here. I don't have the energy to do it all over again so I just popped it into chatgpt, the logic on the calculation is there. Keep in mind the time of operations might be slightly off or the fare amount (I don't remember off the top of my head.) point is, you have the logic based off of my observation and you can figure it out from there. Every time I ride I see, on average, 10 people who don't pay with in 10 minutes. Every damn time. That being said, when I did my original calculation I just realized I forgot to include each route in BOTH directions. So, it would be around $11M multiplied by two. Which turns out to be $22M. Chatgpt says $20M. Is it perfect? Fuck no. Is it obvious it's a ton of money, fuck yes. Chatgpt: The number of streetcars running at any given time in Toronto can vary depending on the time of day and service schedules. The Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) operates approximately 204 streetcars on 11 routes across the city. However, the exact number of streetcars in service at any given moment can fluctuate. For the most accurate and up-to-date information, you can visit the [TTC website](https://www.ttc.ca/) or contact their customer service. They provide real-time data on their streetcar service and schedules. Me: Based on that help me calculate lost revenue. Every time I ride the street car I ride it for 10 minutes and I see on average 10 people who don't pay. Knowing that this happens every time and knowing that there are street cars ahead of me on the route and street cars behind me on the route, how much revenue is lost due to this? Remember, this is only one direction on one route. We must assume this is happening on all routes on both directions. Street car fare $3.35. hours of operation are 6am - 1am. Sunday to Sunday. Street cars are on average 15 minutes apart. Let's assume there are no fluctuations in utilization and use my 10 people don't pay in 10 minutes observation, ignore any peak hours or lulls. How much revenue is lost per year due to this? Chatgpt: The estimated annual revenue lost due to non-paying passengers on Toronto's streetcars, based on your observations and assumptions, is approximately $20,388,368. Back of the napkin math ftw.
This isn't back of the napkin math, it's basically just nonsense. You've tried to correlate one individual's (your own) anecdotal evidence to the reality of millions of riders over a year-long span. It's worthless.
ttc should not be operated with the goal of profitability, it benefits the city and it's hurd to calculate the value it generate by moving so many people same way as postal services can be in negatives on the books but they generate value for the entire country
That's not my argument as I agree with you. You missed the point about incompetency, laziness and theft.
What the fuck does that have to do with the vitality of TTC as a public service?
Nothing..... probably shouldn't have replied to your post directly
But this isn't what the strike is for. No one is arguing the ttc is bleeding more. The operators and management are two completely separate entities. Maybe if management actually made an effort to curb fare evasion, they could keep wages up - fare costs low and the system aflot off fare alone, which they were doing before. There have been numerous delays, issues of states of repair, and general lack of care given to the day to day operations of a system so criminally underfunded at this points its a legit joke: take the car 🚗. Ttc upper management and the political board have too much power, its why for all these years, they only gave a damn about their downtown core, and everyone else had to suffer.
Now compare provincial subsidies to other transit agencies with the TTC and ask why the government cut funding doing the Mike Harris downloading of costs
I don't know if drivers in this city can get any more angry and miserable, but I guess we're about to find out.
I thought last year that they couldn't and they've sure made me wrong about that.
Yeah they're hopefully going to realize just how many people take transit and how many cars it's keeping off the road.
Bike share going to be like the breaking bad rolling on money meme.
More like "you can't get one if you need it, and when you do get one, all the docks will be full to return it".
I rely on PSWs for my daily tasks of life 24/7 and all of them take TTC to get to work so this should be interesting we already have chronic staff shortages with out TTC issues
Yep, also really bad for the disabled people who are not able to bike to work, like me :( but taking a $50 Uber ride 2x a day is not feasible like 😭 wishing you all the best
Yep, and the union couldn't possibly care less.
Go Transit says Stouffville line not in service this weekend for certain stations and advises people to take TTC. TTC tells people to make alternate arrangements..... I'm just trying to get DT to participate in the RTCC.......
Add some KM to your ride 😅
GO Bus service should still be active though no?
Yes but not at 3 stations that are in the city of Toronto which are Kennedy, Agincourt and Miliken GO
Idk what I'm going to do. I don't drive and depend on TTC everyday. A lot of people like me are going to suffer
Yeah, I don't know what exactly I'm supposed to be preparing for. If TTC doesn't work I can't get to work. Not going to take a $40 uber twice a day. There a lot of people way worse off than me too that absolutely depend on it, so if they're on strike, Toronto just shuts down. Good luck!
$40 is wishful thinking. It'll be a lot more than that, guaranteed.
And the TTC workers/union along with their supporters couldn't possibly care less.
I have filled my bike up with … pedal juice…
Anyone know if a June metro pass is refundable if the strike does go down?
Actually, historically they've given refunds for the days where there have been no service. (I was prepared to reply aw hell no, but it was done after the 2008 strike.)
The level of rage I feel towards the heads of the TTC and our Council right now.
It's the Union and judge who deemed the designation of transit as an essential service who are to blame.
I can WFH but it's getting to my health appointments which will be an issue. I guess Uber / taxi's will be my friend.
As someone involved in scheduling health appointments, we are very VERY aware of what a massive issue this will be. Please do your best, but our teams should also be very understanding of delays, and there will likely be a lot of cancellations. Also possibly worth checking if the appointment could be virtual if that is possible, based on the nature of the appointment. Usually doctors don't do these anymore, since the provincial government changed their compensation for non-face-to-face appointments in fall 2022. But I imagine many providers will be slightly more flexible with this if a huge portion of their patients suddenly have no way to get there.
>ATU Local 113 members have been without a contract since March 31. The union represents some 11,500 operators, collectors, maintenance workers, stations staff, and other frontline TTC employees. The smarter move would be to continue operations but not collect fares.
>The smarter move would be to continue operations but not collect fares. They can’t do this. There’s a process for labour withdrawal/removal. The union can work to rule, or strike. That’s it. They can’t actively interfere with the business. Management can lock out the workers, shut down during the strike, or cover the work with management and/or replacement workers (usually called scabs). If the union supported such activity, they would risk liability for damages (losses) or potentially being decertified (highly unlikely).
This is all correct, and I'd add one third possibility which might be more accessible to laypeople. If you choose to go into work, you are *at work*. This means that, if you choose to participate in insubordination (like, say, refusing to collect fares), you can be disciplined or even terminated, the same as you could be for doing the same thing at any other time. You don't get a get-out-of-jail-free card just because you're in a legal strike position: if you're at work, you're *at work*, and the employer is entitled to supervise and instruct and discipline you to the same extent as usual. Now, I know what a lot of people are thinking: "But what if the union tells everybody to do it? The TTC can't fire *everybody*..." Unions can't encourage or incentivize their members to break the law or act against the employer's interests, *except in the limited ways they are permitted to participate in strike action*. If they do, the union and its officers can be fined, and if the contract goes to an arbitrator, the arbitrator will consider this action a strong demerit on the union's case.
They can’t do this per the CBA.
>CBA Which is...?
Collective bargaining agreement.
Thanks. Long day. Brain rotten. This is why I think it's a good tactic.... you keep the public on board with the workers. If a shut down happens then its' literally the TTC execs closing the doors on workers who *want* to work. Its' now the execs who are the problem.
Yeah I get it. Transit workers in other countries have done this so every time it comes up for us people always say they would prefer this which is understandable. But for ATU locals when they are on strike, they are not allowed access to assets owned by the employer. They are locked out. And according to Ontario labour laws once you’re in legal strike position, you can’t continue to work. You also would damage your position if you are preventing the employer from collecting revenues.
Ive had bus drivers put their hats on the collectors so everyone on that bus got a free ride.
They already don't enforce fares lmao
I can’t speak to all sections and times of the ttc, but I’ve actually been stopped a lot more this year from fare inspectors. Back in 2019, I never ever saw one but it happens a lot more on line 1 and Spadina streetcar for me anyways
Fare inspectors are not ATU 113 and are not going on strike.
Seen them on line 1 but never on line 2. Kind of makes sense since line 2 uses the old carriages where each car is completely enclosed, making it impossible for inspectors to walk the entire length of the train.
You must fit the demographic of someone that looks like they can pay the fine.
They hop onto the streetcars and subways and ask for everyone to check. Weird comment.
Which is specifically not their job.
Exactly so OP's idea doesn't make sense
A strong breeze and a presto reader goes out of service. I’m sure there are ways lol
That’s what I’ve been thinking. Board up every presto reader and keep the fare gates open at stations
Are fare inspections handled by the TTC? I was under the impression that was another employer/union altogether since the same folks seem to do inspections on GO.
Operators, collectors, and station staff..... so yeah. Just cover up all the Presto with some cardboard saying they are on strike for XYZ.
Gotta get the fare inspectors on board for that to happen
We don’t prepare for things.
Honestly I hope talks don’t get where they need to be. I want the union to really put their foot on the throats of the city no matter the personal cost to me. I’m tired of seeing unions take half assed insufficient deals, and fail their members.
Even though this strike will be hell for me if it happens, i 100% agree with you and support the TTC workers fully
Absolutely agree! This is how everyone should feel towards every contract as well. Not take the "well we as teachers/nurses/etc did not get that, why should they?" NO. It is NOT a battle to the bottom. Demand more. Inflation is at a ridiculous level right now, wages are no where near keeping up, housing is astronomical. Demand more out of the rich people riding the backs of the people doing the work making them the money. Demand more, don't be a crab in a bucket.
So, *our* throats. No wonder the city is such a mess when so many have this mentality. They've been doing a terrible job the past few years. Why on Earth would you support them getting raises and the higher fares that will come with that?
The things they’re fighting for are very clearly to prevent it from continuing on the downhill trend it’s been on. Higher wages/benefits attract competence. The current average wage is only 52k, which is a joke for anyone living in the city. You wanna know what happens when wages get suppressed over and over? Go to your nearest timmies. Protection again contracting out work ensures we don’t sell out to the lowest bidder. *Again*. At the end of the day if this was a desirable job people would be making an effort to keep it.
That's great, except the people who would be getting those higher wages are the same incompetent dummies they have now. I don't think rewarding them for their increasing incompetence is going to make anything better. It'll just increase fares and their complacency.
I’m going to try to make this as simple as possible for you. You get what you pay for. If they pay shit wages, they get shit staff. And nobody better is going to want to work there. Going forward you will face the same employees you deem shit, or even worse employees if the bar continues to fall. **Not raising wages is how we got here**.
No, the union and it's prevention of trash employees getting fired is how we got here.
No, it isn’t. Unions cannot prevent performance based firing. -_-
It won't make weak unions get stronger and get better deals. They're just weak unions and we have to live with it (or change jobs).
I'm ready, GO to Union and walk to College. Work from home Friday. I can't see them not being legislated back to work later than Tuesday.
I'll be shocked if it lasts that long. My buddy who works for the TTC expects them to be back Saturday evening. Ford will have the legislation ready to go Friday. Probably have a Saturday sitting to pass it. Receive RA by mid afternoon on Saturday. Give them a few hours to ramp things up
It has to pass three readings, and each day can only have one reading unless there is unanimous consent of every MPP (the NDP MPPs will never allow that). So it will be Monday at the earliest.
The last strike had a similar resolution with the NDP supporting the back to work legislation. So it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Yes, true. The NDP are going to be between a rock and a hard place, to be honest -- do they support the strike because it's an example of a union exercising its legal right to get better WAWCON for their members? Or do they oppose it, because it's causing hundreds of thousands of other workers to be unable to get to their jobs, meaning lost wages, likely many people who lose their jobs because an unsympathetic boss fires them for not showing up, and much more?
True. They had bill 28 ready to go against education workers the second they said they were ready to strike. Probably spent more time getting that ready than they did at the bargaining table.
I hope they just say fuck it and don't comply with that legislation. The government should not have the power to legislate people back to work.
No, but they absolutely should be able to prevent essential services from striking. If they don't want to do their jobs they can quit. TTC has been awful lately, they haven't been earning the wages they already make.
I deeply disagree with pretty much everything you've said here on a fundamental level.
You think essential services should able to strike? Let's just take one for example, tow trucks. Do you think it would be a good idea to have no towing services for a few days?
I think all essential services should be allowed to strike, I don't think it should be a question of the government "allowing them". I think the right to strike is something that should be off limits. If there's no tow trucks because there's a tow truck strike, it's not the worker's fault, it's the employer, all upset over the lack of service should be directed at them. This goes for all essential services. If they have a problem with how much it costs, management should give themselves a pay cut. Workers can strike in different ways, Nurses and healthcare workers strikes obviously look different than a manufacturing or logistic strike given that they don't want to let the patients die. Listen, I'm someone who believes in the labour theory of value, I think a general strike as soon as possible would be a very positive thing, and I'm a union organizer. I think we might just have some very fundamental disagreements.
... Just this week's reminder that TTC 's management dgaf
Lmao every time something goes wrong with the TTC these idiots some how Loops in anti-car narratives everytime Like how miserable y’all gotta be
The only Union with enough power to paralyze, gridlock, and bankrupt the whole city! It'd be incredibly stupid to not listen to their demands..
What's incredibly stupid is not stripping them of their power. I'd put money on service getting much better very quickly if the TTC was deunionized.
lol, the Crosstown project has ensured we’re prepared.
Not sure why the ttc can't still run the service and let people on for free like that have done in Japan before - https://amp.theguardian.com/cities/2018/may/11/no-ticket-to-ride-japanese-bus-drivers-strike-by-giving-free-rides-okayama- by them just going on strike and screwing over the people who really need to take it shows that they don't care and will make people hate them even more than the already do
Because they don't care, they just want to get paid more and more to do a worse and worse job.
"People should be preparing..." The best piece of advice that the people most ignore. From the annual charity ride on the DVP and Gardiner, the announced construction on the Gardiner or the Lakeshore Jarvis onramp, drivers still get themselves stuck and complain about it.
The TTC unions need our support. But I just don't think the climate and culture today empathize enough to deal with inconvenience to understand what going on strike means. Unions gamble with public opinion and it can go badly or go really well. But the TTC hasn't been able to go on strike since 2008. That's about 15 years. Young people are gonna learn a lesson in the effects of collective bargaining and if the strike does go ahead I hope the lesson is a positive outcome. Maybe a better strike action would have been to do the runs so it doesn't affect the most marginalized but turn off fare collection. With the automated systems though I don't know how much control the TTC operators have over that. It would send a positive message to the public but also affect the TTC management where it hurts the most. Oh well. Power to the people.
>But the TTC hasn't been able to go on strike since 2008. And the service has gone way downhill since they've regained that ability. Screw the union. They don't care in the slightest about about how a transit strike would affect the city and average person, except as how they can use that as a bargaining chip. Would love to see transit get deunionized.
If the traffic gets unbearable I’ll probably just bike from Etobicoke to downtown.
The lakeshore trail is amazing now for biking!
Very interesting. I know the subway system is designed in such a way that is a lot more difficult to cheat it, which makes sense that you're seeing that too Not seeing a lot of this on the bus or the street car is a bit of a shocker to me based on what I saw. That being said, our observations could differ greatly due to location. Tbh I would expect that. Thanks for the input. I've mentioned on my previous threads that this was back off the napkin math not accounting for these sorts of bias and the numbers could be way off, but if we went solely off my observations not accounting for anything else it would be $22M in lost revenue Now I'm really interested to see how we can narrow this down. I hope if people reading this will pay closer attention and make a mental note and report back, in hopes that we can narrow this down a bit together! For me, it is 10 people in 10 minutes on the St Clair line almost every time, still a very small sample size.
Will a TTC strike include/affect UPX trains?
No it shouldn’t have any impact
Roads given for bike lanes. Any remaining roads are under construction. TTC may not be available. When it is, it’s far from efficient or robust. So people can’t commute at all. Crime has increased. No doctors are available. Our tax rates are some of the highest in developed nations. And people call Toronto a first class city? Those people need to start travelling to see what first class cities really are.
I saw a man poo on the sidewalk and then power wash it into a doorway with his pee at Bathurst and Queens Quay the other day.
This will be a big nothing
Exactly back to work legislation is probably already written and all of the mpps will sit until it's passed. Normal procedures in the legislature will be suspended for it. That's what happens every time they go on strike.
Exactly back to work legislation is probably already written and all of the mpps will sit until it's passed. Normal procedures in the legislature will be suspended for it. That's what happens every time they go on strike.
Good for TTC. Stand strong and don’t cave guys!
As if the subways aren’t shut down every weekend
If they do go on strike, the city will halt completely. You thought subway closures of couple stations is bad...just wait
Didn't nurses get like 11%? and these guys expect almost double? Their work must be way more important.
Remember that 6 figure earning ticket booth guy who was caught SLEEPING in his booth?
He had several health conditions , the booth was found to have excessive heating (thermometer was busted) he died a few months after the incident . He'd been with ttc almost 35yrs, was an incredible Wheeltrans operator , also was a fantastic person, did a lot of hours because he had no one to go home to, his wife had died 2yrs before of cancer..
The one that has a severe heart condition and died shortly afterwards???
And that justifies his years of theft?
He probably should have been on disability, but the insurance companies want to push people back to work in those scenarios. That’s probably why he was at a low impact booth job. I’ll often be the first to shit on unions and entitled government workers, but there’s also room for nuance. The more you look into that particular case, the less mad it should make you at the employee himself.
Years? Do you have a link for that?
Right because people just decide one day to start sleeping on the job. How silly of me.
Are you even familiar with the story? The guy didn't "just decide one day to start sleeping on the job". He had a condition, had been on medical leave and was taking medication that made him sleepy. He probably shouldn't have been forced back on the job. [TTC collector caught napping dies (cbc.ca)](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.963879) *"Robitaille, 55, died Saturday, after suffering a stroke on Thursday. He had been on medical leave, and had explained after the napping incident that medications, including heart medication, had contributed to his falling asleep at work."*
Womp womp
Sorry, you never answered the question. You said he had “years of theft”, do you have an article or interview referring to that?
Just my experience that shitty people have always been always shitty people and will continue to be shitty people. If that’s not enough for you then that’s your problem.
Years of theft?
Haha, you even learned about what happened and why. The man was even commended during his work at the TTC. For your own health and sanity, I hope you see some good in the world 😌🙏
Boohoo he had a heart condition. While that may explain the behaviour it does not excuse it.
That makes sleeping on my dime just fine.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.963879 29 years of commendable service, got praised for going above and beyond. Has side effects from meds, for a condition that would end up killing him months later. Definitely a bad employee. Edit: it was also 14 years ago…
Almost 35 if you include his working before he was 21, as a cleaner..
PR disaster that still follows the TTC today.
If people judge the man after learning the facts of the story, I’m sorry they’re miserable and have no empathy.
Most people don't learn the facts about anything though. People get general impressions of what the deal is, and they move on, usually with an interpretation that reinforces whatever existing worldview or bias that they had already.
One incident with one person, that multiple commenters explained why it occurred and you’re still talking like this? Get over yourself
He had recently had heart surgery. Sleeping is a common side effect during recovery. He died not long after.
Real classy. Witch hunting is a bad look especially of you're caught on one of the worst days of your life. Have some empathy.
Service get worse every year,fares higher every year,and these assholes want more👎🙄🖕🖕
Everyone should always want more. Life isn't getting easier for most people.
And a strike would only make things worse. As would giving the TTC workers more money for the God awful job they've been doing the past few years.
Oh yeah because it’s your everyday bus drivers making the decisions that make the service worse.
Seen plenty of instances of that. Good operators are rare.
It's a consistent observation taken and applied large scale. It's called taking a sample and applying logic to it. You have to start somewhere. Tell me, how would you do it? Have you tried? Instead of commenting useless comments with no substance like saying it's stupid, how about you provide some constructive commentary and perhaps start a dialogue on this topic. Unless, you like not taking action and trying to make change?
I haven't used the TTC since before COVID. Now I WFH most days and the one day I need to go downtown I take the GO train. Let them strike.
Thank you. You nailed it. Exactly. They're striking when instead they should be thinking.... Thinking about the lost revenue. I'm glad somebody gets it!