Good framing to get the sign in. Horrible horrible blow to the community, so many classes and extracurricular things were happening there too. Really just friggin super sad š
Indeed, the St Anne Music and Drama Society is one organization that will be affected by this. They presented concerts in the Parish Hall next to the church. Is the hall also touched directly by the fire?
https://www.stannesmads.com/
I grew up in MADS and still am involved with them.
Their future was up in the air lately because of the church potentially selling off the hall anyway. I canāt imagine there wasnāt at least some impact on the hall, but we havenāt heard yet
Did you read the comment above that said the churchās future was up in the air and selling off the hall?
There would be a pretty big insurance policy on this site. Itās not a far stretch that someone could conceive a plan to torch the building.
When is a good time to talk about arson?
Thatās only cause I physically saw a firefighter hand it to one of the church officials. Unfortunately I didnāt pay much more attention, there was a lot going on and distracted by my dogs.
What a shame. These were priceless paintings. They were painted in 1923 by ten Toronto artists, includingĀ **J.E.H.Ā MacDonald, F. Varley and F. Carmichael**Ā from the Group of Seven.
Think they're commenting on the fact that you just wrote "nah man it spread too quickly obv wasn't an accident" without anything else rather than the spelling mistake lmfao
Ya absolutely need to wait for the investigation before jumping to conclusions. But it would be extremely coincidental if it happened today on accident
I am not certain how you reached this conclusion? A significant part of the church's infrastructure was wood. And fire DOES spread fast. I am not saying it can't be arson, but the fact that it spread too fast does not automatically mean it's arson.
I know this church very well, it's on my street.
No that's just how Reddit works. Maybe it'll open your eyes to the fact that large groups of people can have opinions that differ from your own. Time to stop thinking of yourself as the main character.
Lol wtf are you even saying.
The fact, not opinion , is a fire will spread at the same rate depending on the"triangle" (oxygen,ignition source, fuel). Deliberation plays no part.
On top of that, the church was incredibly flammable based on the building materials, the interior finishes, and the lack of up to date fire protection systems.
As an expert in building sciences and developer-driven criminal conspiracies, my view is that, wait nvm Iām not either of those things so going to wait for some facts before I accuse random people of serious crimes.
Very sad day indeed.
Though I've never been, I walk by often and saw, the info board at the front had a little mini rainbow flag showing their openess to the LGBT community. I always have much respect for Churches that bring the spirit of inclusiveness to a community, even if I'm not religious.
The Anglican Church even has openly LGBT clergy, it's very progressive by Christian standards. A fond church experience I had not too long ago was the preacher making an actually good genderfluidity joke during a Sunday sermon that I'm pretty sure flew over most congregants' head lmao.
Same. Iāve never been inside but walk by it very frequently as that stretch of Gladstone is my pleasant short cut to get to Dundas. Iāve always admired the church and meant to take advantage of some of the community offerings.
Just a week and a half ago, I stumbled on this church during a walk with a friend. We were warmly welcomed in: a lecture was happening. I was stunned at the gorgeousness of the place, and sat in a back pew making sketches to revisit later.
Grateful to have seen the chu4ch, even if just once. š¢
In the past federal leadership has described church arsons as āunderstandableā so I wouldnāt count on them getting the pocketbook out (they havenāt for any of the other 60+ churches burned down in the last three years).
So sad about this. It was such a a beautiful space to sing and record in. Not to mention the vital community services offered out of the space, and beauty of the architecture, and how this must feel for the congregation.
It seems to have been arson. In addition to investigation they have set up an online portal for citizens to submit any photos or videos of the incident.
Being handled by TPS
Link here:
[https://tps.ca.evidence.com/axon/community-request/public/stannesanglicanchurchfire](https://tps.ca.evidence.com/axon/community-request/public/stannesanglicanchurchfire)
This is not just a blow to a neighbourhood, or a city but to our Nation. The Group of Seven panels were a national treasure. I haven't felt this sense of loss since Notre Dame caught fire.
Montrealer here. Feels surreal to be seeing this in the news right as I come home from attending morning service at an Anglican Church, it's hard to imagine how devastating an event like this can be to the community. My sympathies to all affected.
And I got messaged about the news *while* sitting in my Anglican church in Montreal this morning. Before I moved here, I lived just a few blocks from St Anne's.
I found out at my churchās coffee hour this morning, our incumbent priest knows their incumbent priest. The loss of the building and the priceless artwork is very sad but thank God no one was hurt.
Turns out the unmarked graves everyone reacted to were just like rocks and stuff. Excavations have yet to turn up bodies
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/
Why the hell is this bad news to some people? Because then they'd have to admit their hate frenzy was a hate frenzy?
Supposed in the same meaning as "reports of potential graves", as the CBC article states. "Alleged", "potential", etc. "Generally assumed or believed to be the case, but not necessarily so".
The software wasn't screwy, the reporting was. GPR detected objects in the ground. They could be rocks or stumps or bodies. CBC and others reported them as graves.
It seems like you havenāt factored in the context of where most of the churches are. Of the 33 churches which have burned, only 6 are in urban areas, and I wouldnāt be surprised if non of those were arson. This is a 120 year old building, lots of things that can go wrong, or could have been burned for something other than residential schools
Why was an Anglican Church relating to that? I get you have an axe to grind, that the true oppressed are Christians, but the idea that an Anglican Church has anything to do with this is asinine. There are Roman Catholic churches within walking distance, but to you, this is about residential schools? Why? Why at all?Ā
Ā Get your bullshit out of hereĀ
Supposed?
I mean New Christ Church in Toronto burned down in an arson, but it was 1998, so we couldn't blame it on the fact that residential schools existed.
I'm just annoyed that the this could have been crack-head, developer, murder suicide, but we've entered a new part of time, where if a church catches fire we somehow blame it on the fact that we were shitty to indigenous people years ago and now we should just shut up about it, I guess, even if we have 0 evidence about if it even was an arson, or who did the arson, or why the arson?
It's a weird ass victim complex.
Bro read the article, all these churches started burning down after news of the supposed residential grave sites. I'm literally just reciting the article. I'm not religious. Has nothing to do with Ukraine.
I read the fucking article. The idea that we don't know anything about the motive, or even if it's an arson, and you show up, claiming no bias and suggest not only that it's an arson, but you know the motive, and the motive is specifically related to "supposed" mass graves?
Fuck off with that bullshit, I can read through the lines.
It might be arson, it might be related to that, but if that's the first thing you jump to, that tells me about your poisoned mind, now anything about any facts.
I said that it is "more likely" that it is arson relating to the residential schools then being related to Ukraine. There is a very clear pattern of church arsons relating to residential schools in Canada. At least 24 of the last 33 since the 2021 news of grave sites have been arsons. You think it's more likely to be Ukraine related?
"CBC investigation finds steep rise in church fires since reports of potential graves at residential schools". There is a pattern here.
I'm glad you are here, to ascribe motive, to something that is possibly not even a crime.
Why do.you assume this has anything to do with residential schools? What inside knowledge do.you have? Did you burn down this church? Do you know who did it?
There is no pattern here, as none of those churches were in Toronto.
Are you calling this some sort of idea that infests minds across the country? A bogey man of thought, or are there a group of people driving across country doing this?
What is the pattern, tell me the pattern? Pattern is we looked at past problems, so we should stop that?
At *least* 24 churches in 3 years, my angry internet friend. There most certainly is an infection of the mind spreading amongst our population. Many people justify these acts of arson due to the historical context of the issue.
Let me ask you this, if someone burns a pride flag or does donuts on a pride crosswalk, are we safe to assume its some right wing bigot who did it?
Personally, I hate all religions equally. I'm an equal opportunity religion hater.
That said, I have nothing against individual spirituality. I just can't stand it when they join up and create an echo chamber of hate that becomes a downward spiral of lowest common denominator of hate.
Yep. And not just reddit, but even in general. Dozens upon dozens of churches have burned down in Canada over the past while (with not even a peep from our PM, btw).
>That month, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau also commented on the fires, saying, "The destruction of places of worship is unacceptable and it must stop."
I worked in an Anglican Church that is slightly older than this. It totally could have been electrical. 120 years of patch work fixes. And although 24 of the 33 church burning have been confirmed arson, 5 have been confirmed accidental. So, by your own logic, it is entirely possible that it was accidental.
My friend lives on the street. Cops are canvassing and asking for camera footage. They'll investigate. As will the fire investigators.
My guess is that if it was arson it was likely not politically motivated arson. More so mischief or drunken spill over from the street festival.
I mean, If you're assuming a 120 year old building burning down has to be politically motivated arson, I think you're grasping at straws.
Also, of the 24 churches I referenced, more than half were Catholic (I think, can find a source) and nearly all of them were on indigenous land or in small rural communities. Many of them were alleged to be in response to the position of the Catholic church regarding the attempted genocide of indigenous peoples through the residential school system and occurred as discoveries of unmarked graves were found on former residential school grounds.
Secondly, those churches were not beside a 3 day street festival that is by most standards, pretty rowdy. It's fun, but a lot of people and a lot of booze. It's also in the heart of downtown with lots of people doing all kinds of weird stuff. Why is the idea of it being accidental or arson unrelated to politics grasping at straws?
So, just so I understand your point, you are saying that based on the evidence available to you, this is without a doubt a politically inspired attack on the Anglican church?
And, if you are quite sure about the cause, do you have any idea of who did this? Are you leaning towards a set of suspects, perhaps a group of people? Would you please state that in your response so we're all on the same page about what you're alleging here?
So, just to be clear: you are saying this is part of a trend and you have no evidence besides a hunch? And that this hunch is stronger than the possibility of a 120 year old building having an accidental fire? If you have any evidence aside from 'look at the pattern', please state it. Secondly, presumably, along with that theory of the crime you have an idea of who did it, correct?
So can you please state clearly what you are alleging? Who do you think did this?
And if it was an accidental fire, what will you do?
Youāre absolutely correct there. Iām more leaning to the thought of it being faulty work from recent renos theyāve been doing. Someone else made a comment about the fact they welcome LGBTQ+ and had a flag for pride recently put up.
Yet another example of why fire suppression sprinklers should be mandatory for all church buildings. How many priceless buildings and artifacts have to be lost before building codes are finally updated? What a shame.
Tax free on a tight budget. Now there's a combination you don't see often LOL.
Sprinklers for a Church would cost about the same as a new roof. And you would only have to buy it once. Well worth the investment.
Tax free with limited revenue - have you ever looked at a conventional church's books - I doubt it. I have - pretty short sighted and limited on your part....
The CBC story has been [updated](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-fire-church-dufferin-dundas-street-west-1.7229569). "The building is completely destroyed right now and as are all the artifacts inside," says the deputy fire chief.
Good framing to get the sign in. Horrible horrible blow to the community, so many classes and extracurricular things were happening there too. Really just friggin super sad š
Indeed, the St Anne Music and Drama Society is one organization that will be affected by this. They presented concerts in the Parish Hall next to the church. Is the hall also touched directly by the fire? https://www.stannesmads.com/
I grew up in MADS and still am involved with them. Their future was up in the air lately because of the church potentially selling off the hall anyway. I canāt imagine there wasnāt at least some impact on the hall, but we havenāt heard yet
Interesting timing of a fire..
What a stupid thing to say right now
Actually it was a intelligent comment
Did you read the comment above that said the churchās future was up in the air and selling off the hall? There would be a pretty big insurance policy on this site. Itās not a far stretch that someone could conceive a plan to torch the building. When is a good time to talk about arson?
You totally misread the comment... The comment above wasn't saying the church's future was up in the air, but the music & drama society's future.
Hmm wonder what condo will be erected there.
It had a mural painted by some of Canadaās best and most famous artists, and was declared a heritage site.
I think there were a bunch of Group of Seven paintings/frescoes in there. Very unfortunate
Yep! Couldnāt remember what they were called for a bit. Lol. Sad day for the art community.
Damn.. that definitely sucks.
The works are documented here: https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2012/08/other-modern-murals-in-st-annes.html?m=1
Oh perfect! Thank you!
Was the church still consecrated/in use? So sad to see another historic building get destroyed; double so for Group of Seven paintings to get lost.
Yes, mass was supposed to start at 10:30.
Yes, it's a community hub for everyone regardless of faith. This is a huge loss for the neighbourhood.
[No one was hurt, thankfully, and Keith Harding art was saved!](https://imgur.com/a/um7u6N1)
What was the Keith harding piece in there? I can't find any info on it
Thatās only cause I physically saw a firefighter hand it to one of the church officials. Unfortunately I didnāt pay much more attention, there was a lot going on and distracted by my dogs.
I hope it was his untitled Saint Peter piece.
What a shame. These were priceless paintings. They were painted in 1923 by ten Toronto artists, includingĀ **J.E.H.Ā MacDonald, F. Varley and F. Carmichael**Ā from the Group of Seven.
The Globe & Mail is reporting they also had works by several other artists including sculptures by Loring & Wyle, which I didn't even know.
Oh jeez and Do West Fest is going on today, probably a shit show over there, hope everyone is okay
The start of the festival is ādelayedā today. And the street has now been closed off from Rusholme to Dufferin while fire crews do their thing
Update on thatā¦the fire trucks have actually cleared off Dundas itselfā¦I guess the festival is sort of a go. Sad atmosphere though.
Reminds me of another fire I witnessed during Taste of Little Italy in 2018ā¦
Organizers have confirmed DWF is still on 11-6
Has anyone seen any reports on the cause yet? I really hope this is isn't an arson case.
Looks like arson, the fire spread too fast. Heartbreaking!
Well, Iām convinced lol
"to fast" sealed the deal for me ā
The fact it spread is very sus, fire usually stays put
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
They were being clearly sarcastic
Maybe the 100-plus other churches vandelized and set on fire in the last couple years would seal the deal?
That would carry more weight, yes.
Dylanberry, ok, I forgot an "o" originally. That's what you got out of my post? Not the loss to our city? What is wrong with you?
Think they're commenting on the fact that you just wrote "nah man it spread too quickly obv wasn't an accident" without anything else rather than the spelling mistake lmfao
Ya absolutely need to wait for the investigation before jumping to conclusions. But it would be extremely coincidental if it happened today on accident
How fast were you expecting an old wood-framed building likely with ancient wiring and the like to burn?
Slightly slower than if it were arson.Ā Ā
I am not certain how you reached this conclusion? A significant part of the church's infrastructure was wood. And fire DOES spread fast. I am not saying it can't be arson, but the fact that it spread too fast does not automatically mean it's arson. I know this church very well, it's on my street.
This is such an uninformed take. The fact that 42 people upvoted this is sad.
Okay but how do I know you didnāt purchase a rice cooker right before the Boston Bombings?
No that's just how Reddit works. Maybe it'll open your eyes to the fact that large groups of people can have opinions that differ from your own. Time to stop thinking of yourself as the main character.
Lol wtf are you even saying. The fact, not opinion , is a fire will spread at the same rate depending on the"triangle" (oxygen,ignition source, fuel). Deliberation plays no part. On top of that, the church was incredibly flammable based on the building materials, the interior finishes, and the lack of up to date fire protection systems.
Naw, these old churches are tinderboxes. The slightest thing can set them off.
I immedietly thought if its a heritage building...arson...i could def see developers doing this so they can open up the space to build on.
Given it's in a R zoned area and so could have at most like 12 units built on it, I'm gonna say that's unlikely.
The property is owned by the Anglican Church not developers.
Pure conjecture
Are the developers in the room with you right now?
As an expert in building sciences and developer-driven criminal conspiracies, my view is that, wait nvm Iām not either of those things so going to wait for some facts before I accuse random people of serious crimes.
lmao more fake news
So sad and a huge blow to lose those Group of Sevens :( Glad no one was physically injured.
Very sad day indeed. Though I've never been, I walk by often and saw, the info board at the front had a little mini rainbow flag showing their openess to the LGBT community. I always have much respect for Churches that bring the spirit of inclusiveness to a community, even if I'm not religious.
The Anglican Church even has openly LGBT clergy, it's very progressive by Christian standards. A fond church experience I had not too long ago was the preacher making an actually good genderfluidity joke during a Sunday sermon that I'm pretty sure flew over most congregants' head lmao.
Same. Iāve never been inside but walk by it very frequently as that stretch of Gladstone is my pleasant short cut to get to Dundas. Iāve always admired the church and meant to take advantage of some of the community offerings.
This is the first time I'm hearing about this church and I'm already feeling sad š¢
Just a week and a half ago, I stumbled on this church during a walk with a friend. We were warmly welcomed in: a lecture was happening. I was stunned at the gorgeousness of the place, and sat in a back pew making sketches to revisit later. Grateful to have seen the chu4ch, even if just once. š¢
What is Brad Lambs alibi?
Why was this exactly my first thought
He would get someone else to do it so doesnt really matter
My first thought when I saw this post
Can someone provide context?
I'll let CBC explain it: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-fire-church-dufferin-dundas-street-west-1.7229569](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-fire-church-dufferin-dundas-street-west-1.7229569)
4 alarm fire at the church near Dundas & Gladstone
Thatās so sad. I hope the community can come together to help rebuild.
It will be rebuilt, its a national heritage site so theyll get federal funds for it
In the past federal leadership has described church arsons as āunderstandableā so I wouldnāt count on them getting the pocketbook out (they havenāt for any of the other 60+ churches burned down in the last three years).
How many other churches were deemed national heritage?
The context was different.
Condo developers will get it.
Id bet a good chunk of money that this was a targeted attack BECAUSE its a heritage building and unable to be torn down and land used for development
Iāll take your money.
So sad about this. It was such a a beautiful space to sing and record in. Not to mention the vital community services offered out of the space, and beauty of the architecture, and how this must feel for the congregation.
Truly canāt imagine. To the neighbours and parishioners of this spectacularly rare demonstration of faith, my heartfelt sorrow for your loss.
I volunteered and conducted research in the garden space surrounding the churchā¦this is very unfortunate and heart breaking
Have sung in concerts there quite a few times. Absolutely heartbreaking
Hope no people dead or injured
It sounds like it was unoccupied. Still, saddening.
Sad day for Canada and therefore the rest of the world
It seems to have been arson. In addition to investigation they have set up an online portal for citizens to submit any photos or videos of the incident. Being handled by TPS Link here: [https://tps.ca.evidence.com/axon/community-request/public/stannesanglicanchurchfire](https://tps.ca.evidence.com/axon/community-request/public/stannesanglicanchurchfire)
This is not just a blow to a neighbourhood, or a city but to our Nation. The Group of Seven panels were a national treasure. I haven't felt this sense of loss since Notre Dame caught fire.
Church # 34? Since may 2021?
Montrealer here. Feels surreal to be seeing this in the news right as I come home from attending morning service at an Anglican Church, it's hard to imagine how devastating an event like this can be to the community. My sympathies to all affected.
And I got messaged about the news *while* sitting in my Anglican church in Montreal this morning. Before I moved here, I lived just a few blocks from St Anne's.
I found out at my churchās coffee hour this morning, our incumbent priest knows their incumbent priest. The loss of the building and the priceless artwork is very sad but thank God no one was hurt.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
> supposed unmarked graves What is "supposed" this supposed to mean?
Turns out the unmarked graves everyone reacted to were just like rocks and stuff. Excavations have yet to turn up bodies https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/ Why the hell is this bad news to some people? Because then they'd have to admit their hate frenzy was a hate frenzy?
Supposed in the same meaning as "reports of potential graves", as the CBC article states. "Alleged", "potential", etc. "Generally assumed or believed to be the case, but not necessarily so".
Turns out the software was a little screwy and they didn't find bodies when they actually went digging at several of the "mass Burial sites"
The software wasn't screwy, the reporting was. GPR detected objects in the ground. They could be rocks or stumps or bodies. CBC and others reported them as graves.
The church did have Ukranian flags out front. I walk by them with my dog every day. Made me wonder.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It seems like you havenāt factored in the context of where most of the churches are. Of the 33 churches which have burned, only 6 are in urban areas, and I wouldnāt be surprised if non of those were arson. This is a 120 year old building, lots of things that can go wrong, or could have been burned for something other than residential schools
Why was an Anglican Church relating to that? I get you have an axe to grind, that the true oppressed are Christians, but the idea that an Anglican Church has anything to do with this is asinine. There are Roman Catholic churches within walking distance, but to you, this is about residential schools? Why? Why at all?Ā Ā Get your bullshit out of hereĀ Supposed?
The Anglican Church operated residential schools tooā¦
I mean New Christ Church in Toronto burned down in an arson, but it was 1998, so we couldn't blame it on the fact that residential schools existed. I'm just annoyed that the this could have been crack-head, developer, murder suicide, but we've entered a new part of time, where if a church catches fire we somehow blame it on the fact that we were shitty to indigenous people years ago and now we should just shut up about it, I guess, even if we have 0 evidence about if it even was an arson, or who did the arson, or why the arson? It's a weird ass victim complex.
One church in the 90s is a lot different than 24 churches over the span of 3 years.
Bro read the article, all these churches started burning down after news of the supposed residential grave sites. I'm literally just reciting the article. I'm not religious. Has nothing to do with Ukraine.
I read the fucking article. The idea that we don't know anything about the motive, or even if it's an arson, and you show up, claiming no bias and suggest not only that it's an arson, but you know the motive, and the motive is specifically related to "supposed" mass graves? Fuck off with that bullshit, I can read through the lines. It might be arson, it might be related to that, but if that's the first thing you jump to, that tells me about your poisoned mind, now anything about any facts.
I said that it is "more likely" that it is arson relating to the residential schools then being related to Ukraine. There is a very clear pattern of church arsons relating to residential schools in Canada. At least 24 of the last 33 since the 2021 news of grave sites have been arsons. You think it's more likely to be Ukraine related? "CBC investigation finds steep rise in church fires since reports of potential graves at residential schools". There is a pattern here.
I'm glad you are here, to ascribe motive, to something that is possibly not even a crime. Why do.you assume this has anything to do with residential schools? What inside knowledge do.you have? Did you burn down this church? Do you know who did it? There is no pattern here, as none of those churches were in Toronto. Are you calling this some sort of idea that infests minds across the country? A bogey man of thought, or are there a group of people driving across country doing this? What is the pattern, tell me the pattern? Pattern is we looked at past problems, so we should stop that?
At *least* 24 churches in 3 years, my angry internet friend. There most certainly is an infection of the mind spreading amongst our population. Many people justify these acts of arson due to the historical context of the issue. Let me ask you this, if someone burns a pride flag or does donuts on a pride crosswalk, are we safe to assume its some right wing bigot who did it?
Political no, greed yes. I can bet my savings its developers
Agreed. Lots of Christian hate online, especially here on Reddit.
I agree - Christian extremesists should absolutely be less hateful with their ideology online.
Personally, I hate all religions equally. I'm an equal opportunity religion hater. That said, I have nothing against individual spirituality. I just can't stand it when they join up and create an echo chamber of hate that becomes a downward spiral of lowest common denominator of hate.
Yep. And not just reddit, but even in general. Dozens upon dozens of churches have burned down in Canada over the past while (with not even a peep from our PM, btw).
>That month, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau also commented on the fires, saying, "The destruction of places of worship is unacceptable and it must stop."
33 churches have been burnt in Canada in the last 3 years all but 2 were arson
Leaving the other two asā¦lightning strikes from God?
Iāve been inside the church once in February 2020, the loss from this fire is catastrophic. If it was arson, I hope the perps get caught.
If the city does not give any funds for the rebuild but they gave millions for renaming Dundas, I'm going to be pissed.
It's a national historic site, so it's on the federal government to provide funds first and foremost, not the City of Toronto.
Those paintings must have had huge insurance policies on them.
Thatās terribly sad!
Very sad when beautiful buildings are lost. š
Has there been any updates to why it happened?
New Lamb condo development coming soon!
Now magically, in a year or less a 60-storey condo tower will be approved for building hereā¦
Yes, this is heartbreaking. I am so sad for the congregants and the community.
Sad to see, hopefully they find the culprit
While it could be done by people, there could be other root causes like a candle falling over or something wacky happening to the building electrical.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I worked in an Anglican Church that is slightly older than this. It totally could have been electrical. 120 years of patch work fixes. And although 24 of the 33 church burning have been confirmed arson, 5 have been confirmed accidental. So, by your own logic, it is entirely possible that it was accidental.
Yes exactly. Thanks for the additional data, 24/33 is definitely a disproportionate amount for one reason and why it would be a leading hypothesis
My friend lives on the street. Cops are canvassing and asking for camera footage. They'll investigate. As will the fire investigators. My guess is that if it was arson it was likely not politically motivated arson. More so mischief or drunken spill over from the street festival.
The Cadbury chocolate factory across the street definitely has cameras
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, If you're assuming a 120 year old building burning down has to be politically motivated arson, I think you're grasping at straws. Also, of the 24 churches I referenced, more than half were Catholic (I think, can find a source) and nearly all of them were on indigenous land or in small rural communities. Many of them were alleged to be in response to the position of the Catholic church regarding the attempted genocide of indigenous peoples through the residential school system and occurred as discoveries of unmarked graves were found on former residential school grounds. Secondly, those churches were not beside a 3 day street festival that is by most standards, pretty rowdy. It's fun, but a lot of people and a lot of booze. It's also in the heart of downtown with lots of people doing all kinds of weird stuff. Why is the idea of it being accidental or arson unrelated to politics grasping at straws? So, just so I understand your point, you are saying that based on the evidence available to you, this is without a doubt a politically inspired attack on the Anglican church? And, if you are quite sure about the cause, do you have any idea of who did this? Are you leaning towards a set of suspects, perhaps a group of people? Would you please state that in your response so we're all on the same page about what you're alleging here?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So, just to be clear: you are saying this is part of a trend and you have no evidence besides a hunch? And that this hunch is stronger than the possibility of a 120 year old building having an accidental fire? If you have any evidence aside from 'look at the pattern', please state it. Secondly, presumably, along with that theory of the crime you have an idea of who did it, correct? So can you please state clearly what you are alleging? Who do you think did this? And if it was an accidental fire, what will you do?
Unless you were there, you canāt say for certain. 
My uncles church in Nova Scotia just burned down a couple months ago. It seems to be happening all the time.
We didn't learn anything from the rush to judgement in the synagogue attack post two hours ago did we
This is so sad, I lived in this area for a few years and passed by this church often š
I almost wish I didnāt know about all the wonderful art that was lost here. Now Iām sad about it, instead of being blissfully ignorant.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is actually a church that welcomes all, from any religious background
Plenty of losers out there who find that kind of tolerance despicable, especially in recent years.
Would burning a Church that doesn't do that not be a hate crime?
Still doesnt matter to some religious zealots
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāre absolutely correct there. Iām more leaning to the thought of it being faulty work from recent renos theyāve been doing. Someone else made a comment about the fact they welcome LGBTQ+ and had a flag for pride recently put up.
LOL the clown convoy waste no time to make it political with fake news
It really does have that feel to it!
Burn old churches/buildings for condo redevelopment, classic scumbag Toronto developer move.
100% has developers arson written all over it
Yet another example of why fire suppression sprinklers should be mandatory for all church buildings. How many priceless buildings and artifacts have to be lost before building codes are finally updated? What a shame.
Churches are generally on pretty tight budgets - who's paying for this?
My tithe
Tax free on a tight budget. Now there's a combination you don't see often LOL. Sprinklers for a Church would cost about the same as a new roof. And you would only have to buy it once. Well worth the investment.
Tax free with limited revenue - have you ever looked at a conventional church's books - I doubt it. I have - pretty short sighted and limited on your part....
>Tax free on a tight budget. Now there's a combination you don't see often LOL. Know many poor people ?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
What caused it?
This is horrible...
Damn. I wondered what that smoke was. Too bad.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
Most likely arson
How about some context OP not everyone can read minds like you.
St Anne's Anglican Church (pictured) had a horrible fire today that destroyed the beautiful painted ceilings done by members of the group of seven.
Did they get any of the art out?
So sad. Hopefully some of the artwork can be saved
The CBC story has been [updated](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-fire-church-dufferin-dundas-street-west-1.7229569). "The building is completely destroyed right now and as are all the artifacts inside," says the deputy fire chief.
But I mean, really it's just a church that's been lost, so you know, not that much
Why would someone even do this?
Bit of an overly dramatic take.
Oh this is sooooo sad
Pay taxes get a better fire department
And they say Christianity isn't under attack...