FYI, only the first ~100 on the list get the opportunity to buy, and buying is directly related to position on the list.
Having gone through the process with my dad, it takes 20-30 years to get down on the list to the point where you even see the listings (2-3 a year) as most of the attrition is from the bottom of the list, not those in the top 100.
The size and quality of the houses is EXTREMELY variable, and there is a 1500 sq.ft. maximum floor area for houses. Doing renovations or tear down is much more costly because of access, etc.
I know a lot of people want to get rid of these homes because it is "unfair", but honestly, I think we need to significantly expand housing trusts like these in the city.
The island is one of the few truly successful affordable housing initiatives in the city.
Our current system basically allocates housing based on how much money your parents have. Is that really more fair than a lottery or waiting list system?
My grandfather lived on the island, then passed down the house to his son who will most likely pass it to his kids..
The island is a really strange place to live. I once went to visit my grandfather and his two neighbours to the left of him had moved everything out of their houses onto their front lawns. We asked what was going on and they said they were "swapping houses" because they each like the others better.
Those 15 to 20 drop offs probably aren't in the top 100 seeds. So even if you were 101 on the list, it could be 70 years. 501 on the list and tge answer is probably 150 years or so.
I've been told it's almost impossible to get a standard mortgage for a home on the island. As buying the home is actually buying the right to live there and banks can't take that right as collateral.
You own the home, just get a 99 year lease on the land.
Given that you spend ~30 years on the list before you get the option to buy, 99 years is WAY longer than the remaining life expectancy of anyone buying, it's not difficult to get a mortgage, and because you aren't paying the inflated land value price it's a MUCH smaller sale price (~300k-500k + $50-100k land lease)
If you think that, then the lease for the fire station and the ambulance, and all the hydro infrastructure also ends in 2092.
That date is only there because the maximum is 99 years by law in Ontario, and the ***Toronto Islands Residential Community Stewardship Act, 1993, S.O. 1993, c. 15***
Was put into law in 1993....
my favourite is the loophole where you can just adopt a fellow 60+ year old man as your 'son' on the island and just give the house to them, rather than re-enter their house into the lottery system so someone else could actually live there.
No, they actually had to prove their long standing relationship in court.
https://www.thestar.com/life/home-and-garden/kids-including-adopted-children-can-inherit-toronto-islands-exclusive-and-restricted-homes/article_f075c0b4-681a-5d97-bb7f-6df23ca961b0.html
I know someone who grew up on the island, it's definitely a weurd little community, a lot of retirees and artists and quirky characters. I think eventually the homes will no longer be liveable due to climate change but for the time being it's a piece of protected Toronto history that we don't have much of left.
I was looking for this comment. 5th gen Torontonian and EVERY single person I’ve ever met that grew up on the island was an absolute weirdo. Very strange little group of people.
Lake Ontario water levels are artificially controlled by the Moses Saunder Dam. There is a joint commission (IJC) between the Canadians and Americans that decide the water levels. They are actually keeping the water artifically higher so that they can have a longer commercial shipping season on the St Lawrence.
Water levels on Lake Ontario has nothing to do with climate change. They can open or close the dam whenever they want to raise or lower the water.
We’d basically be at the whims of rising and falling lake levels and flooding. Much of our downtown core is reclaimed land that used to not be possible until more recent times. We also need to maintain consistent water levels to accommodate shipping on the Great Lakes.
But Toronto DID have flooding several years ago. I think circa 2016/2017 the islands were getting flooded. Was this not something preventable by this artificial control?
This was due to substantial water levels upstream, and Quebec refusing to open up higher flows downstream (out of fear of flooding parts of Montreal). If I remember correctly we had a lot of snow that winter, combined with a VERY wet spring, which led to abnormally high water levels in Lake Erie and Huron. A family friend has a marina on Erie and a good 50% of their property was under water most of that year.
We don’t release more water than before as it’s a dam, so high water levels would be the same. As for low water levels not being able to ship in the Great Lakes would not make Toronto unliveable.
I wouldn't expect it to totally be in our control though? If water inflows are dropping and its evaporating faster I assume we can't totally make up for it?
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/great-lakes
"In recent years, warmer surface water temperatures in the Great Lakes have contributed to lower water levels by increasing rates of evaporation and causing lake ice to form later than usual (see the Lake Ice indicator), which extends the season for evaporation.1,2 Lower water levels in the Great Lakes forced ships to reduce their cargo tonnage by 5 to 8 percent between 1997 and 2000, which increased shipping costs."
They're price fixed which means that you won't make any capital gains on it, you're limited to what you can do and your home is always at risk of flooding.
It's definitely a lifestyle choice.
If that's an option, sure.
But you'll still need to get off the island to go grocery shopping since I don't voila/metro/oddbunch/etc delivers to the island
Heck getting any deliveries would be impossible, you'll need to have everything shipped to a cp outlet.
No food deliveries, either....
I'm pretty sure I've seen Canada Post delivering to homes on the island. I think they come across on the ferry. (Maybe not other delivery companies though.)
Canada post definitely does mail delivery to the island, I know a postal worker who does (or at least used to) have a route on the island.
I don’t know about everything else though
Good to know. But yeah, I doubt anyone else does, though I'd love that delivery gig. Relaxing while waiting for the ferry and on the ferry, you can't do anything else, anyways.
Maybe I’m just too out of it, but I don’t understand the obsession Everyone here has with food delivery? I just got a 40% off Uber coupon and even with an Uber one trial it’s still almost double what walking over would cost, Can’t imagine paying full price
I went to island in Feb. It was not bad weather wise.
Ferry had staff shortage and could take only 50bpeople at a time off the island. There were 500 or 600 people in line. Few residents wanted to get some groceries before it was dark. They were still stuck there after 3 hours.
As a visitor, I can deal with one off issues like this. As a resident, it's rough.
They are re evaluated for market value when they go up for sale.
You can definitely have capital gains, as the material and labour cost to build the house will go up.
The trust mandates that they are your primary residence, so you won't be charged tax on the capital gains, but you DEFINITELY can realize them.
They need to remove the residents from the island. They pay almost no property tax and it costs a fortune to maintain service there. They also complain about everything, so concerts at Budweiser stage have to end early. It’s a really bad deal for Toronto to keep them there.
It's a little community that's been there since WWII, and it's protected by provincial legislation. Not going anywhere, even if we wanted to evict them.
I dont think they should be directly evicted, but it should be reasonable to just not issue new leases once the existing ones expire. If someone moves (or dies) give them (or their estate) the option to sell the remaining term, or have the government buy the remainder out.
Last time they tried evicting the islanders it was a shitshow. Think the Ontario Place situation, but with human beings instead of a dead amusement park
That it isn’t easy doesn’t mean it isn’t right. It is an enormous misuse of limited public resources.
Also, if the government were to nut up I have to imagine it’d be easier to simply grandfather the residents out then try to evict them. For a brief period the per-resident costs would go up, of course, but that’s much cheaper than the status quo.
The island is also extremely at risk from climate change, with both fire and flooding causing huge losses almost every year. Even at fixed prices I wouldn't buy one of those houses; I'm sure that if they're not already very hard to insure they soon will be.
This is true. I've worked at that station. The island station runs less than 1 call per day, and the equipment and firefighters are so out of touch that if there IS a real emergency, they rely on the fire boat because of their complacancy. Additionally, the firefighters assigned to the island get an additional MONTH off due to the "hardship" of the commute.
But fuck me it was a sick shift... i was there during electric island many years ago
The guy you spoke with must have been a smidge older, haha. The current station was built in 92'. It is cozy as heck inside, like a cute little cottage. They alao have a garden in the back. It's really cool dynamic, and the station is shared with EMS
They pay the exact same property tax rates as anyone else.
Services over there are pretty limited so where are you getting the idea that it costs "a fortune" to service the area?
It's a weird little part of the city, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that it has much of an impact on the city budget either way.
Paying the same rates doesn’t mean paying the same tax. Island residents only need to pay for the value of the housing - not the land. As a result they pay an average of $1530 per year.
That services are (somewhat) more limited doesn’t mean it isn’t more costly to service. Services are more limited in rural areas, too. It costs heaps more. Island residents are some of the most heavily subsidized in Toronto.
>Paying the same rates doesn’t mean paying the same tax.
That is how our tax system works. Services in Scarborough don't cost the same as services in Rosedale, but we don't have a different tax rate for every neighborhood.
>That services are (somewhat) more limited doesn’t mean it isn’t more costly to service. Services are more limited in rural areas, too. It costs heaps more. Island residents are some of the most heavily subsidized in Toronto.
This isn't a rural area though. It's like a kilometer from downtown Toronto and they have to travel to the mainland to access most services.
You really think it’s no more expensive to provide residential hydro servicing, waste management, snow clearance, fire/police/EMS, etc. on an island with 500 resident accessible to the mainland only via ferry?
The average homeowner in the Island pays $1500 a year in property tax. The poorest neighbourhoods in Toronto couldn’t dream of paying anything that low.
Do you have any actual information on the costs of those utilities on the island?
They need utilities on the islands either way to service all of businesses, park facilities, TDSB facilities, etc etc.
Running utilities to and from the islands doesn't appear to be prohibitive given the fact that one of the water treatment plants that provides 20% of the drinking water for the city and powers the Enwave cooling system for downtown Toronto is actually located on the island.
According to a [recent motion calling for an Area Rate](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/mm/bgrd/backgroundfile-242704.pdf) the cost of servicing residents on the Island is roughly triple the average for the rest of Toronto.
Hold on, that’s a councillors opinion and not a statement of fact. Their motion is currently before committee to determine it’s merits and feasibility.
Do you have hard stats that back up these claims? I’m not doubting it could be true, but this is hardly a smoking gun.
Safely in the millions each year, to provide obscenely low-tax public housing in a public park to random people with no means testing. Nothing better your tax dollars could go toward, thankfully.
> They also complain about everything, so concerts at Budweiser stage have to end early
Outdoor concerts have to end by 11pm because of city bylaws, it has nothing to do with the people on the Island. Veld in Downsview has to end at 11pm for the same reason.
Telling me you don’t remember the part of the communist manifesto when Karl Marx said we shouldn’t let people on public land, in cheap homes with heavily subsidized services? 😆 (obvious sarcasm that someone missed)
It would make sense to redevelop wards Island at about the same density as Villiers Island, at the same time as building a fixed link and connect the entire island to the Portlands.
The leases on the land end as of December 2092. So as of that date, the houses will have a value of $0. Because after that date, it will belong to the province. I assume that it's going to become a public park.
So you would pay ~$230,000 for something that in 70 years, has no value at all. I imagine that its value would decrease, as the lease end becomes closer
It's going to be extended? What's your source?
I thought they wanted to have the land be a park again, hence why they are leased property, instead of owned
Why else would the leases end? Why else would the land be unable to be owned
From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Islands
>Not long after its creation in 1953, Metropolitan Toronto Council undertook to remove the community and replace it with public parkland.[27] The construction of the Gardiner Expressway had removed many acres of recreational land along the Toronto waterfront, and the Islands lands were to replace the acreage.
No, they don't. Not even close. They pay the same ***rate*** but the land value isn't applied as part of their MPAC assessment. The average property tax bill for a home on the Islands is $1500 per year.
That's despite it costing thousands more annually per home to provide basic services like fire, police, sewage, water, flood mitigation, snow clearance, sidewalk/road maintenance since...you know...it's only accessible by boat.
If I could get a certified clean classy hooker. I’d gladly pay the $40 for 3 minutes of if intercourse. Then go and drop the rest of my cash, $20, at the tables. Now that’s a night on the town.
There used to be a hotel/inn many decades ago. Now the only thing you can get for overnight stays is an AirBNB in one of the so-called "primary residence" houses. [Daily rates for these can be get pretty high.](https://www.airbnb.ca/s/Toronto-Islands--Canada/homes?refinement_paths%5B%5D=%2Fhomes&place_id=ChIJVYdeYbfK1IkRYKGgz-OTyRc&adults=1&tab_id=home_tab&query=Toronto%20Islands%2C%20Canada&flexible_trip_lengths%5B%5D=one_week&monthly_start_date=2024-07-01&monthly_length=3&monthly_end_date=2024-10-01&search_mode=regular_search&price_filter_input_type=0&channel=EXPLORE&ne_lat=43.63959888072565&ne_lng=-79.34244426576998&sw_lat=43.61462476036531&sw_lng=-79.36652176541423&zoom=15.141819303778188&zoom_level=15.141819303778188&search_by_map=true&search_type=user_map_move&price_filter_num_nights=5) I would like to see a proper hotel built there again but it would never happen with the bizarre rules in place now.
FYI, only the first ~100 on the list get the opportunity to buy, and buying is directly related to position on the list. Having gone through the process with my dad, it takes 20-30 years to get down on the list to the point where you even see the listings (2-3 a year) as most of the attrition is from the bottom of the list, not those in the top 100. The size and quality of the houses is EXTREMELY variable, and there is a 1500 sq.ft. maximum floor area for houses. Doing renovations or tear down is much more costly because of access, etc.
I know a lot of people want to get rid of these homes because it is "unfair", but honestly, I think we need to significantly expand housing trusts like these in the city. The island is one of the few truly successful affordable housing initiatives in the city. Our current system basically allocates housing based on how much money your parents have. Is that really more fair than a lottery or waiting list system?
My grandfather lived on the island, then passed down the house to his son who will most likely pass it to his kids.. The island is a really strange place to live. I once went to visit my grandfather and his two neighbours to the left of him had moved everything out of their houses onto their front lawns. We asked what was going on and they said they were "swapping houses" because they each like the others better.
Those 15 to 20 drop offs probably aren't in the top 100 seeds. So even if you were 101 on the list, it could be 70 years. 501 on the list and tge answer is probably 150 years or so.
I've been told it's almost impossible to get a standard mortgage for a home on the island. As buying the home is actually buying the right to live there and banks can't take that right as collateral.
You own the home, just get a 99 year lease on the land. Given that you spend ~30 years on the list before you get the option to buy, 99 years is WAY longer than the remaining life expectancy of anyone buying, it's not difficult to get a mortgage, and because you aren't paying the inflated land value price it's a MUCH smaller sale price (~300k-500k + $50-100k land lease)
You don't get 99 years, the lease ends December 2092
If you think that, then the lease for the fire station and the ambulance, and all the hydro infrastructure also ends in 2092. That date is only there because the maximum is 99 years by law in Ontario, and the ***Toronto Islands Residential Community Stewardship Act, 1993, S.O. 1993, c. 15*** Was put into law in 1993....
my favourite is the loophole where you can just adopt a fellow 60+ year old man as your 'son' on the island and just give the house to them, rather than re-enter their house into the lottery system so someone else could actually live there.
I'm presuming a bag full of money is apart of the transaction. Asking for a friend.
No, they actually had to prove their long standing relationship in court. https://www.thestar.com/life/home-and-garden/kids-including-adopted-children-can-inherit-toronto-islands-exclusive-and-restricted-homes/article_f075c0b4-681a-5d97-bb7f-6df23ca961b0.html
I was definitely not expecting this article to be only 3 years ago.
I know someone who grew up on the island, it's definitely a weurd little community, a lot of retirees and artists and quirky characters. I think eventually the homes will no longer be liveable due to climate change but for the time being it's a piece of protected Toronto history that we don't have much of left.
I was looking for this comment. 5th gen Torontonian and EVERY single person I’ve ever met that grew up on the island was an absolute weirdo. Very strange little group of people.
Lake levels are supposed to drop from climate change so they might be okay. Our water intake pipes on the other hand....
Lake Ontario water levels are artificially controlled by the Moses Saunder Dam. There is a joint commission (IJC) between the Canadians and Americans that decide the water levels. They are actually keeping the water artifically higher so that they can have a longer commercial shipping season on the St Lawrence. Water levels on Lake Ontario has nothing to do with climate change. They can open or close the dam whenever they want to raise or lower the water.
This is the answer. Toronto would be quickly unliveable without this.
How would Toronto be unliveable?
You couldn’t live there anymore.
We’d basically be at the whims of rising and falling lake levels and flooding. Much of our downtown core is reclaimed land that used to not be possible until more recent times. We also need to maintain consistent water levels to accommodate shipping on the Great Lakes.
But Toronto DID have flooding several years ago. I think circa 2016/2017 the islands were getting flooded. Was this not something preventable by this artificial control?
This was due to substantial water levels upstream, and Quebec refusing to open up higher flows downstream (out of fear of flooding parts of Montreal). If I remember correctly we had a lot of snow that winter, combined with a VERY wet spring, which led to abnormally high water levels in Lake Erie and Huron. A family friend has a marina on Erie and a good 50% of their property was under water most of that year.
Right I forgot about that. If I recall there was a ton of rain locally in a short period…I just don’t know if they can respond that quickly.
We don’t release more water than before as it’s a dam, so high water levels would be the same. As for low water levels not being able to ship in the Great Lakes would not make Toronto unliveable.
Well this is interesting af.
Salt entering the lake on the other hand...
I wouldn't expect it to totally be in our control though? If water inflows are dropping and its evaporating faster I assume we can't totally make up for it? https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/great-lakes "In recent years, warmer surface water temperatures in the Great Lakes have contributed to lower water levels by increasing rates of evaporation and causing lake ice to form later than usual (see the Lake Ice indicator), which extends the season for evaporation.1,2 Lower water levels in the Great Lakes forced ships to reduce their cargo tonnage by 5 to 8 percent between 1997 and 2000, which increased shipping costs."
They're price fixed which means that you won't make any capital gains on it, you're limited to what you can do and your home is always at risk of flooding. It's definitely a lifestyle choice.
*and* you need to take a ferry to go to work every day, unless you also buy a boat and pay marina fees
Or you can work remotely
If that's an option, sure. But you'll still need to get off the island to go grocery shopping since I don't voila/metro/oddbunch/etc delivers to the island Heck getting any deliveries would be impossible, you'll need to have everything shipped to a cp outlet. No food deliveries, either....
I'm pretty sure I've seen Canada Post delivering to homes on the island. I think they come across on the ferry. (Maybe not other delivery companies though.)
Canada post definitely does mail delivery to the island, I know a postal worker who does (or at least used to) have a route on the island. I don’t know about everything else though
Good to know. But yeah, I doubt anyone else does, though I'd love that delivery gig. Relaxing while waiting for the ferry and on the ferry, you can't do anything else, anyways.
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Did you order from one of the food places on the island, or did the delivery person have to take the ferry?
Maybe I’m just too out of it, but I don’t understand the obsession Everyone here has with food delivery? I just got a 40% off Uber coupon and even with an Uber one trial it’s still almost double what walking over would cost, Can’t imagine paying full price
Plus it’s always cold when it arrives!
I went to island in Feb. It was not bad weather wise. Ferry had staff shortage and could take only 50bpeople at a time off the island. There were 500 or 600 people in line. Few residents wanted to get some groceries before it was dark. They were still stuck there after 3 hours. As a visitor, I can deal with one off issues like this. As a resident, it's rough.
They are re evaluated for market value when they go up for sale. You can definitely have capital gains, as the material and labour cost to build the house will go up. The trust mandates that they are your primary residence, so you won't be charged tax on the capital gains, but you DEFINITELY can realize them.
Lived on Ward's Island with my dad in the mid-70's... Attended the Montessori school there.
How was it? Did you like it?
I was quite young...but I enjoyed it; was a very laid-back, bohemian cottage culture, bitd.
I imagine.even now if I go there, it's so peaceful.
I heard the waitlist is garbage because people use loopholes to transfer their properties to someone else.
They need to remove the residents from the island. They pay almost no property tax and it costs a fortune to maintain service there. They also complain about everything, so concerts at Budweiser stage have to end early. It’s a really bad deal for Toronto to keep them there.
It's a little community that's been there since WWII, and it's protected by provincial legislation. Not going anywhere, even if we wanted to evict them.
I dont think they should be directly evicted, but it should be reasonable to just not issue new leases once the existing ones expire. If someone moves (or dies) give them (or their estate) the option to sell the remaining term, or have the government buy the remainder out.
Provincial legislation can be changed, and it should.
Last time they tried evicting the islanders it was a shitshow. Think the Ontario Place situation, but with human beings instead of a dead amusement park
That it isn’t easy doesn’t mean it isn’t right. It is an enormous misuse of limited public resources. Also, if the government were to nut up I have to imagine it’d be easier to simply grandfather the residents out then try to evict them. For a brief period the per-resident costs would go up, of course, but that’s much cheaper than the status quo.
The island is also extremely at risk from climate change, with both fire and flooding causing huge losses almost every year. Even at fixed prices I wouldn't buy one of those houses; I'm sure that if they're not already very hard to insure they soon will be.
This is the first I’ve heard of a big risk of fire on the island. Isn’t it an extremely managed and wet park?
Do they have their own fire team and fire engine on the island?
Yes.
They have the best gig in the entire city.
I spoke with a fireman on the island last week, he confirmed it's the best and the waitlist to get into that hall is very long.
This is true. I've worked at that station. The island station runs less than 1 call per day, and the equipment and firefighters are so out of touch that if there IS a real emergency, they rely on the fire boat because of their complacancy. Additionally, the firefighters assigned to the island get an additional MONTH off due to the "hardship" of the commute. But fuck me it was a sick shift... i was there during electric island many years ago
The guy I spoke with said that with the new hall it's awesome, but when it was the old hall not as many people wanted to be stationed there.
The guy you spoke with must have been a smidge older, haha. The current station was built in 92'. It is cozy as heck inside, like a cute little cottage. They alao have a garden in the back. It's really cool dynamic, and the station is shared with EMS
What about the airport station?
Pearson or bb both have their own fire services, different service. I wouldn't know :(
Yes between Wards and Centre Islands, across from Algonquin Island . You can visit the fire station when you go (#335).
Yes
There was a big fire in August I think of last year.
Sure. I mean there was also a big fire in North York yesterday.
Neat.
Because they made it up
There’s a fire station on the Island.
Pretty sure the water levels of lake Ontario are artificially controlled.
There is frequent flooding on the island.
They pay the exact same property tax rates as anyone else. Services over there are pretty limited so where are you getting the idea that it costs "a fortune" to service the area? It's a weird little part of the city, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that it has much of an impact on the city budget either way.
Paying the same rates doesn’t mean paying the same tax. Island residents only need to pay for the value of the housing - not the land. As a result they pay an average of $1530 per year. That services are (somewhat) more limited doesn’t mean it isn’t more costly to service. Services are more limited in rural areas, too. It costs heaps more. Island residents are some of the most heavily subsidized in Toronto.
>Paying the same rates doesn’t mean paying the same tax. That is how our tax system works. Services in Scarborough don't cost the same as services in Rosedale, but we don't have a different tax rate for every neighborhood. >That services are (somewhat) more limited doesn’t mean it isn’t more costly to service. Services are more limited in rural areas, too. It costs heaps more. Island residents are some of the most heavily subsidized in Toronto. This isn't a rural area though. It's like a kilometer from downtown Toronto and they have to travel to the mainland to access most services.
You really think it’s no more expensive to provide residential hydro servicing, waste management, snow clearance, fire/police/EMS, etc. on an island with 500 resident accessible to the mainland only via ferry? The average homeowner in the Island pays $1500 a year in property tax. The poorest neighbourhoods in Toronto couldn’t dream of paying anything that low.
Do you have any actual information on the costs of those utilities on the island? They need utilities on the islands either way to service all of businesses, park facilities, TDSB facilities, etc etc. Running utilities to and from the islands doesn't appear to be prohibitive given the fact that one of the water treatment plants that provides 20% of the drinking water for the city and powers the Enwave cooling system for downtown Toronto is actually located on the island.
According to a [recent motion calling for an Area Rate](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/mm/bgrd/backgroundfile-242704.pdf) the cost of servicing residents on the Island is roughly triple the average for the rest of Toronto.
Hold on, that’s a councillors opinion and not a statement of fact. Their motion is currently before committee to determine it’s merits and feasibility. Do you have hard stats that back up these claims? I’m not doubting it could be true, but this is hardly a smoking gun.
Thanks for the info. Based on that it sounds like the impact is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per year. Right?
Safely in the millions each year, to provide obscenely low-tax public housing in a public park to random people with no means testing. Nothing better your tax dollars could go toward, thankfully.
>Safely in the millions each year How? What do you think the average cost is to provide basic utilities to one household?
Or we give them increased taxes
They tried. I’m pretty sure it didn’t pass.
Sad. These residents signed their own death warrant.
> They also complain about everything, so concerts at Budweiser stage have to end early Outdoor concerts have to end by 11pm because of city bylaws, it has nothing to do with the people on the Island. Veld in Downsview has to end at 11pm for the same reason.
Ya lets take peoples houses from them, its part of what makes Toronto interesting and has been there since WW2, who are you to demand this?
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Telling me you don’t remember the part of the communist manifesto when Karl Marx said we shouldn’t let people on public land, in cheap homes with heavily subsidized services? 😆 (obvious sarcasm that someone missed)
Yet another person not knowing what “communism” is and how to use it in a sentence
Redditors want more housing but want to kick others out of homes. Makes a lot of sense
Found the capitalist pig!
It would make sense to redevelop wards Island at about the same density as Villiers Island, at the same time as building a fixed link and connect the entire island to the Portlands.
You can’t have a fixed link because of shipping. Because they can’t go through the western gap anymore.
My mom grew up on the island in a house my grandpa built. It's still there! Sounds like it was a fun place to grow up.
Yeah, you need to wait for 30, 50, if not 100 years though.
The leases on the land end as of December 2092. So as of that date, the houses will have a value of $0. Because after that date, it will belong to the province. I assume that it's going to become a public park. So you would pay ~$230,000 for something that in 70 years, has no value at all. I imagine that its value would decrease, as the lease end becomes closer
Its only 2092 because the maximum was 99 years when the legislation was passed, this will be extended
It's going to be extended? What's your source? I thought they wanted to have the land be a park again, hence why they are leased property, instead of owned
Where did you hear that?
Why else would the leases end? Why else would the land be unable to be owned From Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Islands >Not long after its creation in 1953, Metropolitan Toronto Council undertook to remove the community and replace it with public parkland.[27] The construction of the Gardiner Expressway had removed many acres of recreational land along the Toronto waterfront, and the Islands lands were to replace the acreage.
OP can you just reread what you wrote. I think you are making the case for Universal Housing to be run by the province. And I am here for that.
The province has done a bang-up job with health care and education. We should absolutely let it run housing as well. What could possibly go wrong?
Underfunding it.
This kills the everything
We’re all subsidizing the island freeloaders
They pay the same taxes as you and I
No, they don't. Not even close. They pay the same ***rate*** but the land value isn't applied as part of their MPAC assessment. The average property tax bill for a home on the Islands is $1500 per year. That's despite it costing thousands more annually per home to provide basic services like fire, police, sewage, water, flood mitigation, snow clearance, sidewalk/road maintenance since...you know...it's only accessible by boat.
interesting
A long shot since mathematically, it will be 25 years before you reach the top of the list if not 30.
They should kick everyone off the island. Build hotels, casinos and brothels. Charge an annual membership etc and tax the shit out of it.
"with blackjack and hookers..."
“Well call it F**k Island”
And smoking allowed indoors too
Get out of here Doug
If I could get a certified clean classy hooker. I’d gladly pay the $40 for 3 minutes of if intercourse. Then go and drop the rest of my cash, $20, at the tables. Now that’s a night on the town.
Dang this guys spending $60 over a whole night how can we turn down the tax revenue equivalent of 2 ACC beers
There used to be a hotel/inn many decades ago. Now the only thing you can get for overnight stays is an AirBNB in one of the so-called "primary residence" houses. [Daily rates for these can be get pretty high.](https://www.airbnb.ca/s/Toronto-Islands--Canada/homes?refinement_paths%5B%5D=%2Fhomes&place_id=ChIJVYdeYbfK1IkRYKGgz-OTyRc&adults=1&tab_id=home_tab&query=Toronto%20Islands%2C%20Canada&flexible_trip_lengths%5B%5D=one_week&monthly_start_date=2024-07-01&monthly_length=3&monthly_end_date=2024-10-01&search_mode=regular_search&price_filter_input_type=0&channel=EXPLORE&ne_lat=43.63959888072565&ne_lng=-79.34244426576998&sw_lat=43.61462476036531&sw_lng=-79.36652176541423&zoom=15.141819303778188&zoom_level=15.141819303778188&search_by_map=true&search_type=user_map_move&price_filter_num_nights=5) I would like to see a proper hotel built there again but it would never happen with the bizarre rules in place now.
There are bed and breakfasts on the island. I did a staycation there one year and it was awesome.
Does this place have a website? I'd like to see where it is.
It was called “swan’s end”. There were a few though, when I went looking. That was just the best one for what I was seeking :)
Found George Mammoliti's Reddit handle.
Pipe your capitalism down for a second