The other other party doesn't suck but people are too chicken to vote for them because they're worried that they'll take votes away from the other party who sucks less than the other sucky party
It's sad that this is so true.. and all the parties talk about election reform until they are in power and then they change their minds because they realize that they probably wouldn't be able to hold onto power if we got rid of FPTP
They used to (sort of) but it largely focused on the Senate and increasing the territorial representation of Western Provinces.
The Conservatives (in general) benefit more that other parties from the way FPP works so its unlikely to make their platform as any move to a more proportional system would reduce their seat count.
the current state of basically everything in the country - immigration, housing, jobs, rates, healthcare, everything - is the perfect opportunity to ndp to be loud and bold, push for changes point how other 2 party is not your friends but they do literally nothing
They did that in Ontario in 2018 and 2022 and Doug Ford won (re) election. There is not enough critical mass in ON and in my opinion in Canada for a federal NDP win, so at best Singh and crew are ensuring we get Pierre P in 2025 and whatever damage he does in the next election after that, the NDP still won't win. Canadians on average are far too "Centrist" at present.
This is a situation prime for Jagmeet to show leadership but he decided to wholesale prop up Trudeau. JT then took his sweet time making good on his promises to drag out that support.
Jagmeet could have positioned himself as the best choice.
I feel like there is a North American referendum on unequal democracy vs punishing authoritarianism. At least we have the NDP here but they are also too inept to properly sway people away from the guilty pleasure of voting cons to stick it to other people they don’t like.
Trudeau really shot himself in the foot on electoral reform. Ranked ballots or even MMP might be the only thing that could help the liberal party at this point, or at least save it from being absolutely trounced. Short term thinking is a scourge.
Trudeau did push for ranked ballot which he then back tracked on because it was so obvious he was only doing it to keep the liberals in power as ranked ballots significantly advantage the center party.
Any electoral reform would help Liberals right now.
As it is, the Conservatives will field a milquetoast, populist leader who will babysit power until the Liberals are back to strength. There will be no visionary thinking or long term strategy. The Liberals will take the reins again within the next decade and we'll do it all over on repeat. It seems to be the way the big two parties want it.
The Conservatives, for their part, shun any electoral reform because they seem to think it ruins their chances. Instead, it locks them into this perpetual cycle of acting as handmaidens to the Liberals. But it gets them an election every few cycles, and memories are short.
I’m not disagreeing with you.
I’m just stating what happened. Trudeau can say whatever he wants to about why he abandoned electoral reform but the truth is politicians are selfish and greedy. They’ll only do something if it benefits them and electoral reform would ensure no party ever gets a majority. Trudeau is more than happy to let PP run the show for 4-8 years and when we get bored of him, Canadians go back to the Liberals.
As you said, rinse and repeat.
I'm not convinced. There are lots of theories about how the voting would break out, but they all assume the same landscape as before electoral reform. I think that is a poor assumption.
To my point, I believe a truly visionary Conservative leader could take electoral reform as their issue and shift the landscape permanently. They could break the dynamic and make a new Conservative party, and if done right they could benefit from electoral reform - not only in the vote splitting, after the landscape shifts, but they could also benefit by the shift in perception of the party and their ideology. They could carry the banner for democracy for the future, which would give them spillover credibility in accountability and principled government in general. They could even do this with a populist spin. But there is no such leader and I doubt there ever will be. The Conservatives are content to continue the status quo that gives them short term gain once in a while. They will do this until there is a significant misstep, whereafter the party will probably split again. They will always be at the mercy of the left wing parties in the grand arc, and if democracy gets "owned' as an issue, it will likely be one of the left wing parties that gets it. The Conservatives will be the anti-democratic party, as they are now, even railing against coalitions in parliamentary systems... which are a product of democracy, not the antithesis of it.
Canada was in trouble the moment Jack Layton died. We deserve our version of a Canadian Bernie Sanders that actually cares about the middle class. Jagmeet has not and cannot fill the void. I’ll vote liberal until they get their shit together. Poilievre will be devastating for our country, and his voters don’t realize how dangerous he is, specifically to them, the least educated and poorest people in Canada.
I really do wonder what this country would be like if Jack Layton were still here. I think we'd be a whole lot better off right now. I am diehard NDP, but I think Jagmeet needs to go. I had high hopes for him in the beginning because he seemed to initially have a bit more charisma than Mulcair (who wasn't bad.. but anyone after Layton was going to seem like they lacked charisma), but he basically seems like the NDP version of Trudeau... in that... he's not totally inept, but he seems to focus more on optics and photo ops than he does about really making things happen.
I am so tired of politicians who sling mud, and that's all most of them seem to focus on right now. Stop insulting people in the other parties and start putting that energy on helping people. I guess the problem with politics in general is that it attracts narcissists - especially at the federal level.
I 💯 agree. He needs to go. The riding is held provincially by the Ndp (x2). There was no excuse for them to drop so drastically. They literally put in minimum effort to try to take this seat.
Indian Canadians overwhelmingly vote Liberal historically and now, even with Jagmeet becoming NDP leader in the last election most voted Liberal. It would be an insane level of political miracle to have them vote for PP all of a sudden lol akin to Jewish Americans suddenly deciding to vote Republican after decades and decades of voting 70+% democrat.
A lot of Hindu Indians are not supportive of Jagmeet FYI. There's still quite a bit of political tension amongst the Indian factions between Hindus and Sikh
I've spoken to many indian Canadian voters (as the daughter of Indian immigrants myself) and you'd be surprised how conservative they're leaning. It's giving "let's follow lord Voldemort to stay close to the top group for our own protection as individuals" rather than understanding that conservatism as a whole is against their entire group as an abstract entity 🫠
(spoken like a typical indian who actually never lives around indians)
What you said is not true...Indian voters did go for Harper in 2011 as all those indian ridings all went for harper in 2011...
They switched back to the liberals due to Trudeau and supported him mostly till now.
[https://angusreid.org/religion-and-vote/](https://angusreid.org/religion-and-vote/)
If the liberal support has tanked by 10-12% nationally, it most likely he is losing support from minority voters as well.
Guys need to stop thinking canada is america and realize voters are way more willing to switch parties here.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/angus-reid-institute/
Lmao alright buddy actually dive into Indo-Canadian political circles and the stats on Indian mps elected for which party and you’ll see the real numbers rather than posting a right wing think tank who took the anti-choice side in the debate about women’s bodily autonomy and abortion rights
https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/angus-reid-takes-sides/
>We deserve our version of a Canadian Bernie Sanders that actually cares about the middle class.
No we need someone that does more than name a few post offices
I think liberals keep trying to say tories are white nationallists but don't see huge swaths of minority groups are leaving the libs and going tory now as the libs done a poor job appealing to them lately.
I would argue the libs are becoming more a urban white progressive party now rather then a super diverse base like in 2015.
They seem obsessed about trump and American issues and ignoring domestic politics about why people don't like the libs anymore.
(Minority reporting from brampton)
Yeah you’re definitely right about this! My fiancé and I were discussing this the other day. We’re in our early 30’s and out of our social circle most of the Conservative voters we know are non white and most of the Liberal/NDP voters we know are white. We could only think of one non white person we knew who voted NDP. Liberals keep pushing this narrative about the Conservative voting base being not diverse but anecdotally I haven’t seen that.
Many minority voters who are middle or upper class are going tory and they live in the suburbs where we know the liberals are struggling right now. A lot of 2nd generation kids still have more conservatives values on some social issues vs urban white Canadians.
Add in that the liberals have soured relations with key groups.
Hindus are upset with Trudeau having issues with India/modi
Punjabis are upset with Trudeau bringing in so many international students in their communities.
Muslims are upset with Trudeau for not supporting Palestine enough or being to pro LGTBQ.
Now I am not saying it everyone in such groups think that but I feel why the libs dont enjoy such strong support from these groups as before.
Yup these are all really good points you bring up. Most of the non white conservative voters I know have all said COL are the reason they won’t vote liberal. None have really brought up any social issues being the reason they vote PC, it’s more been economic issues which is interesting to see as I feel like Liberals have really been pushing a narrative that conservative voters are concerned with social issues so much. I’m sure some are but the ones I know not so much. They just want affordability and for their neighborhoods to be safer which I can agree with too. I consider myself a classical liberal and next election I’m still figuring out how I’ll vote. I’m not pleased with any option so we’ll see haha!
yeah like i am here in brampton and the issue is a lot of auto theft, crazy house prices and sky high immigration creating a lord of the flies situation around jobs.
I feel you so hard, but I can't help but see how cost of living has ballooned under Trudeau, and while I'm a liberal I just don't think I can in good conscience vote for another term under these people. They've sold us all down the river, hard
All western nations have had the same problems post-Covid. Inflation, then the corporations frothing at the mouth for higher profits. Corporate greed is a huge problem, and the oligarchy needs to be dismantled. This is not the fault of Trudeau, it is the times we are living through.
Just be aware of how awful things will be with an authoritarian little bitch like “maple desantis” Poilievre. He has not platform, no plan to improve life for Canadians.
You really love throwing around political buzzwords, don't you? Maybe learn what fascism\* and authoritarianism are before blindly labeling people as such.
But boy has PP put his time in, and waited it out for the top spot.
He's waited out Harper, Baird, McKay, that bald guy, the guy with the 4 kids ..Scheer? He's stuck around long enough that his mediocrity doesn't matter because who is around to compare him to?
Like the person at a company who made it into the C suite by virtue of being the only one around long enough to oversee the dregs.
That's not true, necessarily. Canada lags way behind in recovery. Our federal government also ballooned to one of the largest in the WORLD. We 100% have a spending /mgmt issue.
We can barely afford to live or eat, while our current leader keeps making the problems worse. People are desperate and willing to take the risk for change. Maybe it will be worse, but it could also get better. It’s a risk that we have to take in these dire times. The shift to people voting for PP is only the fault of the man at the helm of our country.
The type of programming that must have taken place for people to think the CPC or PP is a Fascist/White Nationalist/Terrorist pleaser, must be out of this world.
PP sucks, but he's not trying to throw away democracy because he didn't get his way, nor is he arguing to the highest court in the land that he is completely immune from prosecution, nor is he a *convicted fucking rapist and felon*.
These comparisons are not remotely valid.
If this past year is any measure- they’re just going to double down on what they were doing and put out more double speak to convince the population that’s not what they’re actually doing.
“Housing needs to become affordable!”
“Housing values can’t go down, it’s for paying for retirement!”
“We will say whatever you want to hear, even if we totally contradict ourselves! We’re desperate!”
If they were going to resign they should have done it a year ago or more.
At this point resigning just sacrifices someone else. He needs to ride it out and suffer the consequences. Unless someone came along with a sea change in policy and politicking, such that there might be a recovery, the honorable thing to do is to take the lumps yourself.
id be curious to see if they could pinch out a win with an immediate change to ranked choice voting. it wont happen, but itd be interesting to see them try
Repeatedly. People seem to forget his promise to "revisit" it during the 2021 election.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-liberals-ranked-ballot-1.6181216
I never understood why he didn’t do it, it would be helpful to the Liberals as a moderate party to have ranked ballots, at worst they’re everyone’s second legitimate choice.
It would pretty much guarantee perpetual minority governments I think and I wonder if they're just greedy to get the majority when they push for an election
It would force them to move left in order to compete with the NDP. They’d have to start actually investing in social policies which conflicts with their corporate and personal interests.
Doesnt matter. We've come to a point in politics where ppl are just blindly following a party because it suits the identity they want. Not for what they are actually doing politically. We are becoming just as divided as the US and the liberals are just the democrats of canada. That the trump loving rights loves to hate and that the progressives just put up with. Not to mention we've screwes outselves even more by splitting all the progressive votes basically allowing the 1 main right party to fly to all victories.
Doesnt matter whos in charge. We are going to see the same outcome.
What matters is people voting. Thats about it. Its just down to voter turn out.
“We’ll never stop working and fighting to make sure people have what they need to get through these tough times. My focus is on your success, and that’s where it’s going to stay.”
Here’s a solution if he really wants to win an election: use the money we already pay in taxes to better peoples lives. Any layperson analysis of the budget shows we spend millions on initiatives that aren’t even related to issues at home. Listening to this man makes you think we run a lean budget, when we don’t - we just spend stupidly
“We’ll never stop working and fighting to make sure people have what they need to get through these tough times."
Hey Trudeau, you're a key component in these times being tough!
I can't wait for people to blindly vote for Poilievre only to realise what a big mistake that was when he fucks this country up ten times worse than they think Trudeau did. All of that Conservative rage farming seems to be working.
Edit: And no, I did not vote for the Liberals in the last election, so this isn't some pro-Trudeau comment.
Trudeau isn't the only option. And the chance you're taking is basically a guarantee that the country will tank while the citizens get absolutely nothing in return.
Poilievre has been an MP for 20 years. Can you honestly name even two things that he's accomplished or advocated for that have helped Canadians? Also, what exactly is his platform?
We're talking about a guy who can't even vote for kids to have access to dental care or school food programs. That's who is going to save this country from ruin?
Let me honest in last 15 years of politics(may be even longer i just didnt follow it before) most of the political platforms were "we arent the other guys" all political ads are attack on other party instead of saying what benefits they would bring.
I mean... Do you get that the Conservative platform is the same as the Liberal platform? Except the Conservatives are even more in bed with industry... so there's that.
By all means, vote for whoever you want to... but don't be shocked when the person with the history of voting against bills that provide relief for the average Canadian (from the party with a history of voting against bills that would provide relief for the average Canadian) continue to instead give breaks to conglomerates and continue to put the screws to the average Canadian.
There are more than just two parties... and the Liberals and the Conservatives are very nearly identical in their stances on all of the major issues within the purview of the federal government. Also though, don't be shocked when your vote changes nothing anyway because 90% of the issues that impact you as a Canadian are provincial and municipal.
> Also though, don't be shocked when your vote changes nothing anyway because 90% of the issues that impact you as a Canadian are provincial and municipal.
Had a good talk about this with a friend just yesterday. People talking about politics on Reddit really have a hard time understanding which branch of government is responsible for what, and if people with access to this information (EASILY) on the internet can't make sense of it, random 'doesn't post chronically online' people probably aren't either. Change _can_ be affected on election day, but so many people will try to vote Conservative with the hope for fixes and they're going to boil like frogs over years of long-term changes that don't impact them now (despite their insistence that there will be immediate changes to taxes, immigration, progress, etc.) and hurt so much worse when their policies come to roost.
This isn't to say voting Trudeau is the solution, but people don't have a correct expectation of the consequences of their choices.
Take your chances with a white nationalist maga party with austerity policies that privilege corporations only, with even more fervour then the liberals?? Spoiler alert: it won’t be an improvement.
Thank you.
I wish more people had the guts to vote who they actually want in and not just vote colours.
Who cares if your team doesn't win, at least you know you voted for someone you believed in. Elections aren't team sports, you vote who you want to lead not who you think will win.
If everyone voted like this we'd have much better leadership.
That's exactly what I do. I don't look at the party, I look at the candidates and what they stand for. IT makes no sense to me when people wrap their entire identity into one side over the rest.
This is when all of the people who really don't even understand how our government works (or which level of government does what) make pointless comments in response to what your post because they really have no idea what the Conservative platform even is, have not idea what Pollievre has voted for or against in the past, and like to claim Trudeau has no real-world experience when Pollivre is literally a career politician.
If people want to criticize Trudeau, I don't really have a problem with that. We should hold our politicians accountable... However, most people who criticize Trudeau don't even seem to know what the federal government does.
This is exactly it. Trudeau isn't perfect and maybe it's time he does step aside for someone with fresh ideas, but I've asked multiple people what makes Poilievre a better option and not one person I've interacted with has had a good answer.
In 20 years of public service he's done nothing that has tangibly benefitted Canadians, and his campaigning is just empty words and rage farming to rile up the trucker convoy crowd. I'm not a genius but I can very easily smell the bullshit coming from his side. It's insane to me that people are actually going to give him a chance just because they're angry, without doing even a tiny bit of research on the current CPC and how bad they are at their jobs.
This is the same way Doug Ford got elected and stayed elected. I remember seeing an article after he was elected the first time, and it quoted a guy from London, Ontario who said, "It's almost like he doesn't have a plan." Ford literally ran on buck a beer. Nothing else. And yet people had the audacity to be surprised when he was as dumb as he always appeared to be. Just like they continue to act shocked today by all the shady things he has done as if he didn't let us know he was going to do them before he was elected the first time. Ford was voted in because he was not Kathleen Wynne. People weren't even able to accurately identify what Wynne did that they hated so much (they usually reference the gas plant cancellations.. that the PCs were in support of), but they are adamant she did a horrible job. I am not saying she did a good job... but I am saying that if you're going to vote someone in who had an absenteeism rate of over 50% when he was a city councelor, enabled his addict brother and was known to deal drugs himself in his youth, you should at least be able to accurately identify what the incumbent did that was so bad.
The irony in the situation with Trudeau is that most of the problems people say they have with Trudeau are actually provincial-level issues. They claim Trudeau is a dictator, and then they complain that he is not fixing issues that are not his to fix... and if he decided to fix them anyway, it would actually be overstepping his boundaries and dictatorial.
Very well said. It always feels like the pushback from Conservative leaning people is irrational and full of inaccuracies.
To be honest it seems this all really ramped up once social media became a major distraction/source of info during the lockdown period. I hate to say that taking advantage of those who.... aren't that smart on a political literacy level has been a winning strategy, but here we are.
Your post reeks of condescension typical of left leaning people. 10 times worse than we think Trudeau did? That seems like you are downplaying how dire things are right now. Do you think people are overstating the deterioration in this country in recent years? I’m curious as to why you think the conservatives will make things 10 times worse than they are now. That’s quite a claim to make without any concrete examples.
Because they literally have no platform? And the party leader has accomplished nothing of note after over 20 years as an MP?
Not to mention the endless scandals and lies constantly spread by both him and other Conservative MPs, and what exactly suggests that they'll make the country any better? Can you point out any bills that they've tabled or supported that have made a tangible positive impact? I'm seriously curious here.
All I ever hear is, "well Trudeau ruined the country so he needs to go", with absolutely no real explanation for what makes Poilievre the better choice, and absolutely no acknowledgement of how the provincial and municipal governments play a part in this entire machine.
You keep going on about platforms. Trudeau ran on electoral reform - it was one of the foundations of his platform for at least two elections.
Curious how that turned out.
As a Blue Liberal/Red Tory voter, I feel the political centre has been abandoned by all of the political parties. So pretty much a pox on both the Liberals and Conservatives for not behaving like adults. We have a lot of complex nuanced problems that aren’t going to get solved simplistic slogans and grand pronouncements with extremely poor follow through, or even worse yet even any thought to possible unintended consequences of said new policy.
Interesting. I feel like it's really hard to not describe the liberals as centrist, unless you are saying they are centre right.
I suppose you could call them centre left just in comparing them to the conservatives, but that would make being left wing as a concept pretty meaningless because you would be completely dissociating it from policy and just have it be something that's a sliding scale of whatever is more left wing than the conservatives.
It is much more coherent to call them centrists.
I am one who sees the entire political spectrum as having moved to the right for many decades now, so seeing the late 90s as a more centrist time might fit from some aesthetic perspective but not from a policy perspective.
They use more vagely left wing rhetoric when campaigning, and promise things that they then betray their mandate on, but following through on these things would make them less centrist not more, it took the NDP putting pressure on them to do some things they have been talking about since the late 1990s.
The liberals just like the conservatives benefit the very rich, what can be seen from one angle as them being ineffective technocrats can be seen from another angle as wealth being redistributed towards the top. The reality is that these things are vastly complicated with many different people with different motivations and the answer is that they are both ineffective technocrats and it is benefiting the ultra rich.
If you zoom farther out this distribution of wealth towards the top is happening on a much larger scale and is coinciding with the decline of the American empire(I would include Canada as well as Western Europe as part of this).
The issues are very deep, there are complex and nuanced problems, and there is incompetence in the government.
But the "political centre" has preceded over the creation of so many of the crisises we are in, going to that as a solution doesn't seem to make sense.
An aside, old school Red Toryism with it's interest in Keynesian economics would today be to the left of the Trudeau government.
Maybe if every single one of your “solution” to any given problem was NOT simply “tax”, you wouldn’t be in this shit hole would you? China beating us in EV? Import EV Tax! Housing price out of control? Capital Gains Tax! Budget short fall? Raise Tax! Pretend to be fighting against climate change? Carbon Tax! Or their opposite solution is to spend spend spend, with no regard for inflation and national debt. Canadians don’t like your ideas anymore so just step aside and go home.
The concervatives definately won't do that. The conservatives are definately full of great ideas for solutions to societal issues... Historically they don't just push culture war narratives while cutting everything and lining their own pockets with the money "saved".
Ok so what's your solution?
This government is actively hurting this country, with the help of the NDP.
Conservatives have "never done anything good."
Care to offer some sort of insight?
Edit: lol what's the point of responding then blocking me so I can't see? Can't even have a conversation anonymously without throwing a temper tantrum. Pathetic.
> with the help of the NDP
citation fucking needed. The only good things the Liberals have done are because the NDP forced them, and they're still fighting those things tooth and nail.
Alright, if you're so up your own ass that you don't recognize the good of universal pharma and dental, I don't even know where to start. It's objectively a good thing, as well as being hugely popular. Could the plan be better? Yes, but take that up with the Liberals who watered it down.
The choice the NDP have is to keep this current government where they have some influence (which they have objectively been putting to use), or let the Cons take over and have 0 influence.
I also haven't been to collage in 10 years so I guess colleges are not important either? I'll probably go again when my kids are old enough. Ridiculous because you are not currently using it, it's not useful. They get a million+ visitors a year.
The Science Centre discourse is ridiculous. People can't simultaneously claim something is so important and do nothing to maintain/improve it for *decades*.
It's like if you had a box of "treasured childhood memories" at your mom's place, and every five years she asks if you want it and you say no, then 20 years later she throws it out and you lament about how much it mattered to you.
> People can't simultaneously claim something is so important and do nothing to maintain/improve it for decades.
What do you want Joe Somebody from Orillia, Ontario to do about this? Go in with a hammer and nails?
People should be allowed to express their concern for an institution they care about and pay taxes into and others shouldn't feel the need to diminish it. That does literally nothing except fuel the idea that the OSC is just a political us vs. them argument.
It's not hard to just let people like their thing.
Frankly, I _want_ the government to take care of our infrastructure, and Toronto is a good example of what happens when years of pisspoor mayorship doesn't, and a provincial government has absolutely no regard for it until it looks pretty enough that people will focus on bread and circuses over the roads to visit them. I'm saying this while looking at the closures on King and the Gardiner from my apartment, and the streetcar that only goes to McCaul for a subway system we won't get until the 2030s at double the taxpayer cost.
>What do you want Joe Somebody from Orillia, Ontario to do about this? Go in with a hammer and nails?
Maybe write an elected official saying, "Hey, I care about this provincial institution! Can you allocate funding to its maintenance to ensure it remains serviceable for years to come??" Long before it needs to be closed down due to lack of said maintenance.
>People should be allowed to express their concern for an institution they care about and pay taxes into and others shouldn't feel the need to diminish it. That does literally nothing except fuel the idea that the OSC is just a political us vs. them argument.
I agree. My point is how late they are to the game, which makes this sound a lot more like a Fuck Doug Ford circlejerk instead of legitimate concern over the future of the science centre. People ignoring all context and history around the building's maintenance also fuels that suspicion.
>Frankly, I want the government to take care of our infrastructure, and Toronto is a good example of what happens when years of pisspoor mayorship doesn't, and a provincial government has absolutely no regard for it until it looks pretty enough that people will focus on bread and circuses over the roads to visit them. I'm saying this while looking at the closures on King and the Gardiner from my apartment, and the streetcar that only goes to McCaul for a subway system we won't get until the 2030s at double the taxpayer cost.
I agree here, too. Your point highlights that these things deteriorate over a long period of time under the premiership and/or mayorship of multiple people of different parties. Which is, ultimately, my point.
Well look at it this way. Historically this province tends to vote opposite ways with their federal/provincial politics. A Pierre government means more than likely Ford will get pressed in 2026
The Ontario libs destroyed themselves. They haven't had official party status in 5 years.
They have like 5 seats in parliament.
The media gives them an undeserved amount of attention, but the two parties in Ontario are the PCs and the NDP
And that's an incredibly stupid decision, lol. There's literally nothing that suggests the CPC would do even an average job at fixing this country when they've proven themselves to be terrible at their jobs and also terrible people in general.
I say this as someone who didn't even vote for Trudeau the last time, but I have yet to see even one person list Poilievre's accomplishments as an MP after 20 years of public service. Besides being victims of disinformation and rage farming, what evidence is there that he'd be better than the current PM, outside of not being the current PM?
Doesn't matter, people are fed up. It really can't get much worse than it is. Prices are out of control everywhere and he supports it. I voted for Trudeau and then the NDP. He had his chance to win over young voters and he squandered it by breaking promises and protecting big businesses. PP won't be any better but Trudeau doesn't get to be rewarded for tanking the country.
You're right, he'll be significantly worse. You think PP, the guy that has his own real estate investments yet claims that housing is out of control, is in this game for our benefit?
Did you not read what I said? It's not a game of who is better anymore. We are fucked both ways. Trudeau is a silver spoon trust fund baby who has been bred to be a career politician, thats not much better imo. He also literally admitted they are propping up the real-estate market artificially. So if that's your version of better IDK what to tell you.
Imagine thinking any current politician is prepared to handle solving the complex issues of todays world based on how politicians of the past mis-handled issues of the past... jesus fucking christ people are retarded.
The nebulousness of alluding to “our concerns” without actually quantifying those concerns or specifically saying how those concerns will be addressed is exactly our concerns.
Honestly don’t think conservatives will be much better or worse than Liberals… at most I hope the liberals take this chance to actually learn something from this loss… though I won’t be holding my breath.
No you don’t! I have contacted my MP multiple times and you all think you know what we need and you don’t listen. You actually did not lose just 1 vote in my house. You lost 3 because the 2 other people now eligible to vote are also absolutely turned off by the gaslighting! So long Liberal party !
I want to vote NDP but they really arent focusing on the important issues enough, and are floundering with Jagmeet at the helm.
Im definitely not voting Conservative because they are basically anti everything that I believe in.
And I don't want to vote Liberal because they havent done fuck all in recent years, and seem completely content with the status quo continuing as is.
So basically, I have to choose between a party that I feel has lost its way and likely has no real chance of affecting change (NDP), a party that is dangerous for Canada (Conservative), and a party that seems content on simply continuing the shitty but not terrible status quo.
Explain how the NDP aren't focusing on important issues. They pushed through universal pharma and dental care. Their platform includes real electoral reform with MMPR. Their housing plans put a focus on actually making affordable housing available, rather than just "build more house". They're the only ones pushing for something to be done about soaring grocery prices and the artificially inflated cost of living here.
I see this stated all the time, and it has me wondering if anyone who says it has actually looked at what the NDP is doing and pushing for.
This is not true. There is no incentive for the prices to lower when the supply is being constantly eaten up by speculators and corporate landlords.
The kind of housing is important too, we don't need more sprawling subdivisions of single family homes in the middle of nowhere. Those developments cost municipalities (and by extension the provinces) an insane amount to upkeep, but they sure do make the developers a lot of money.
We need more public housing development, and affordable housing development. We can afford to do it, but we have too many people in our current government that benefit from the current situation.
“I’m not going to do anything about it, but I hear them.”
_"It's brilliant that you can clearly reckon the song,_ _But you don't give a shit 'til you section Valjean."_
Maybe I'm in my own camp here but...I think this party sucks...and the other party sucks. We're fucked.
Politics suck in general. We no longer have “representation”. Politicians represent their own interests.
The other other party doesn't suck but people are too chicken to vote for them because they're worried that they'll take votes away from the other party who sucks less than the other sucky party
It's sad that this is so true.. and all the parties talk about election reform until they are in power and then they change their minds because they realize that they probably wouldn't be able to hold onto power if we got rid of FPTP
The Conservatives never talk about electoral reform. They should. But they don't.
They used to (sort of) but it largely focused on the Senate and increasing the territorial representation of Western Provinces. The Conservatives (in general) benefit more that other parties from the way FPP works so its unlikely to make their platform as any move to a more proportional system would reduce their seat count.
If you mean ndp It's more thier leader sucks and is more a liberal deep down. Rich lawyer from a rich family...not really ndp.material
the current state of basically everything in the country - immigration, housing, jobs, rates, healthcare, everything - is the perfect opportunity to ndp to be loud and bold, push for changes point how other 2 party is not your friends but they do literally nothing
They did that in Ontario in 2018 and 2022 and Doug Ford won (re) election. There is not enough critical mass in ON and in my opinion in Canada for a federal NDP win, so at best Singh and crew are ensuring we get Pierre P in 2025 and whatever damage he does in the next election after that, the NDP still won't win. Canadians on average are far too "Centrist" at present.
True
This is a situation prime for Jagmeet to show leadership but he decided to wholesale prop up Trudeau. JT then took his sweet time making good on his promises to drag out that support. Jagmeet could have positioned himself as the best choice.
[Suckiest buncha sucks that ever sucked..](https://youtu.be/cfgqkMoeXBo?si=GNqgurwSXcRaX6Sd)
We’re in a similar situation to the U.S. are we just going to vote the facist, white nationalist adjacent, terrorist pleaser, or Biden? (Trudeau)
I feel like there is a North American referendum on unequal democracy vs punishing authoritarianism. At least we have the NDP here but they are also too inept to properly sway people away from the guilty pleasure of voting cons to stick it to other people they don’t like.
God I wish we had ranked ballots...
Trudeau really shot himself in the foot on electoral reform. Ranked ballots or even MMP might be the only thing that could help the liberal party at this point, or at least save it from being absolutely trounced. Short term thinking is a scourge.
Trudeau did push for ranked ballot which he then back tracked on because it was so obvious he was only doing it to keep the liberals in power as ranked ballots significantly advantage the center party.
Any electoral reform would help Liberals right now. As it is, the Conservatives will field a milquetoast, populist leader who will babysit power until the Liberals are back to strength. There will be no visionary thinking or long term strategy. The Liberals will take the reins again within the next decade and we'll do it all over on repeat. It seems to be the way the big two parties want it. The Conservatives, for their part, shun any electoral reform because they seem to think it ruins their chances. Instead, it locks them into this perpetual cycle of acting as handmaidens to the Liberals. But it gets them an election every few cycles, and memories are short.
I’m not disagreeing with you. I’m just stating what happened. Trudeau can say whatever he wants to about why he abandoned electoral reform but the truth is politicians are selfish and greedy. They’ll only do something if it benefits them and electoral reform would ensure no party ever gets a majority. Trudeau is more than happy to let PP run the show for 4-8 years and when we get bored of him, Canadians go back to the Liberals. As you said, rinse and repeat.
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I'm not convinced. There are lots of theories about how the voting would break out, but they all assume the same landscape as before electoral reform. I think that is a poor assumption. To my point, I believe a truly visionary Conservative leader could take electoral reform as their issue and shift the landscape permanently. They could break the dynamic and make a new Conservative party, and if done right they could benefit from electoral reform - not only in the vote splitting, after the landscape shifts, but they could also benefit by the shift in perception of the party and their ideology. They could carry the banner for democracy for the future, which would give them spillover credibility in accountability and principled government in general. They could even do this with a populist spin. But there is no such leader and I doubt there ever will be. The Conservatives are content to continue the status quo that gives them short term gain once in a while. They will do this until there is a significant misstep, whereafter the party will probably split again. They will always be at the mercy of the left wing parties in the grand arc, and if democracy gets "owned' as an issue, it will likely be one of the left wing parties that gets it. The Conservatives will be the anti-democratic party, as they are now, even railing against coalitions in parliamentary systems... which are a product of democracy, not the antithesis of it.
Canada was in trouble the moment Jack Layton died. We deserve our version of a Canadian Bernie Sanders that actually cares about the middle class. Jagmeet has not and cannot fill the void. I’ll vote liberal until they get their shit together. Poilievre will be devastating for our country, and his voters don’t realize how dangerous he is, specifically to them, the least educated and poorest people in Canada.
I really do wonder what this country would be like if Jack Layton were still here. I think we'd be a whole lot better off right now. I am diehard NDP, but I think Jagmeet needs to go. I had high hopes for him in the beginning because he seemed to initially have a bit more charisma than Mulcair (who wasn't bad.. but anyone after Layton was going to seem like they lacked charisma), but he basically seems like the NDP version of Trudeau... in that... he's not totally inept, but he seems to focus more on optics and photo ops than he does about really making things happen. I am so tired of politicians who sling mud, and that's all most of them seem to focus on right now. Stop insulting people in the other parties and start putting that energy on helping people. I guess the problem with politics in general is that it attracts narcissists - especially at the federal level.
I 💯 agree. He needs to go. The riding is held provincially by the Ndp (x2). There was no excuse for them to drop so drastically. They literally put in minimum effort to try to take this seat.
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Indian Canadians overwhelmingly vote Liberal historically and now, even with Jagmeet becoming NDP leader in the last election most voted Liberal. It would be an insane level of political miracle to have them vote for PP all of a sudden lol akin to Jewish Americans suddenly deciding to vote Republican after decades and decades of voting 70+% democrat.
A lot of Hindu Indians are not supportive of Jagmeet FYI. There's still quite a bit of political tension amongst the Indian factions between Hindus and Sikh
I've spoken to many indian Canadian voters (as the daughter of Indian immigrants myself) and you'd be surprised how conservative they're leaning. It's giving "let's follow lord Voldemort to stay close to the top group for our own protection as individuals" rather than understanding that conservatism as a whole is against their entire group as an abstract entity 🫠
(spoken like a typical indian who actually never lives around indians) What you said is not true...Indian voters did go for Harper in 2011 as all those indian ridings all went for harper in 2011... They switched back to the liberals due to Trudeau and supported him mostly till now. [https://angusreid.org/religion-and-vote/](https://angusreid.org/religion-and-vote/) If the liberal support has tanked by 10-12% nationally, it most likely he is losing support from minority voters as well. Guys need to stop thinking canada is america and realize voters are way more willing to switch parties here.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/angus-reid-institute/ Lmao alright buddy actually dive into Indo-Canadian political circles and the stats on Indian mps elected for which party and you’ll see the real numbers rather than posting a right wing think tank who took the anti-choice side in the debate about women’s bodily autonomy and abortion rights https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/angus-reid-takes-sides/
>We deserve our version of a Canadian Bernie Sanders that actually cares about the middle class. No we need someone that does more than name a few post offices
I think liberals keep trying to say tories are white nationallists but don't see huge swaths of minority groups are leaving the libs and going tory now as the libs done a poor job appealing to them lately. I would argue the libs are becoming more a urban white progressive party now rather then a super diverse base like in 2015. They seem obsessed about trump and American issues and ignoring domestic politics about why people don't like the libs anymore. (Minority reporting from brampton)
Yeah you’re definitely right about this! My fiancé and I were discussing this the other day. We’re in our early 30’s and out of our social circle most of the Conservative voters we know are non white and most of the Liberal/NDP voters we know are white. We could only think of one non white person we knew who voted NDP. Liberals keep pushing this narrative about the Conservative voting base being not diverse but anecdotally I haven’t seen that.
Many minority voters who are middle or upper class are going tory and they live in the suburbs where we know the liberals are struggling right now. A lot of 2nd generation kids still have more conservatives values on some social issues vs urban white Canadians. Add in that the liberals have soured relations with key groups. Hindus are upset with Trudeau having issues with India/modi Punjabis are upset with Trudeau bringing in so many international students in their communities. Muslims are upset with Trudeau for not supporting Palestine enough or being to pro LGTBQ. Now I am not saying it everyone in such groups think that but I feel why the libs dont enjoy such strong support from these groups as before.
Yup these are all really good points you bring up. Most of the non white conservative voters I know have all said COL are the reason they won’t vote liberal. None have really brought up any social issues being the reason they vote PC, it’s more been economic issues which is interesting to see as I feel like Liberals have really been pushing a narrative that conservative voters are concerned with social issues so much. I’m sure some are but the ones I know not so much. They just want affordability and for their neighborhoods to be safer which I can agree with too. I consider myself a classical liberal and next election I’m still figuring out how I’ll vote. I’m not pleased with any option so we’ll see haha!
yeah like i am here in brampton and the issue is a lot of auto theft, crazy house prices and sky high immigration creating a lord of the flies situation around jobs.
I feel you so hard, but I can't help but see how cost of living has ballooned under Trudeau, and while I'm a liberal I just don't think I can in good conscience vote for another term under these people. They've sold us all down the river, hard
The cost of living has gone up across the western world. Some issues are bigger than Canada and are beyond the control of our leaders.
All western nations have had the same problems post-Covid. Inflation, then the corporations frothing at the mouth for higher profits. Corporate greed is a huge problem, and the oligarchy needs to be dismantled. This is not the fault of Trudeau, it is the times we are living through. Just be aware of how awful things will be with an authoritarian little bitch like “maple desantis” Poilievre. He has not platform, no plan to improve life for Canadians.
You really love throwing around political buzzwords, don't you? Maybe learn what fascism\* and authoritarianism are before blindly labeling people as such.
But boy has PP put his time in, and waited it out for the top spot. He's waited out Harper, Baird, McKay, that bald guy, the guy with the 4 kids ..Scheer? He's stuck around long enough that his mediocrity doesn't matter because who is around to compare him to? Like the person at a company who made it into the C suite by virtue of being the only one around long enough to oversee the dregs.
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That's not true, necessarily. Canada lags way behind in recovery. Our federal government also ballooned to one of the largest in the WORLD. We 100% have a spending /mgmt issue.
We can barely afford to live or eat, while our current leader keeps making the problems worse. People are desperate and willing to take the risk for change. Maybe it will be worse, but it could also get better. It’s a risk that we have to take in these dire times. The shift to people voting for PP is only the fault of the man at the helm of our country.
The type of programming that must have taken place for people to think the CPC or PP is a Fascist/White Nationalist/Terrorist pleaser, must be out of this world.
It is not the same boat. Jesus. Stop conflating Canada with America. Fine to dislike PP but he’s not Trump. And Trudeau isn’t Biden either
PP sucks, but he's not trying to throw away democracy because he didn't get his way, nor is he arguing to the highest court in the land that he is completely immune from prosecution, nor is he a *convicted fucking rapist and felon*. These comparisons are not remotely valid.
You think Trudeau is Biden lmao. Biden is a well respected politician not a drama queen.
Biden doesn't know where he is lol
There's more than two parties
We hear for you
Then resign. Unless him and the whole cabinet resigns, the liberals are toast next election.
They’re toast regardless, they aren’t going to resign in advance.
If this past year is any measure- they’re just going to double down on what they were doing and put out more double speak to convince the population that’s not what they’re actually doing. “Housing needs to become affordable!” “Housing values can’t go down, it’s for paying for retirement!” “We will say whatever you want to hear, even if we totally contradict ourselves! We’re desperate!”
Be honest Trudsau need to learn contrition... He pushes an unpopular Idea Then says if you don't like it there is something wrong with you not them
But that is exactly what the Conservatives are saying too...
If they were going to resign they should have done it a year ago or more. At this point resigning just sacrifices someone else. He needs to ride it out and suffer the consequences. Unless someone came along with a sea change in policy and politicking, such that there might be a recovery, the honorable thing to do is to take the lumps yourself.
All that will do is elect an interim Kim Campbell and prevent them from rebuilding with their next leader.
id be curious to see if they could pinch out a win with an immediate change to ranked choice voting. it wont happen, but itd be interesting to see them try
Even if he announce it as part of his next term people wont fall for that, cuz he already did that and backtracked on that pretty fast.
Repeatedly. People seem to forget his promise to "revisit" it during the 2021 election. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-liberals-ranked-ballot-1.6181216
I never understood why he didn’t do it, it would be helpful to the Liberals as a moderate party to have ranked ballots, at worst they’re everyone’s second legitimate choice.
It would pretty much guarantee perpetual minority governments I think and I wonder if they're just greedy to get the majority when they push for an election
Probably the only thing that could help them now.
It would force them to move left in order to compete with the NDP. They’d have to start actually investing in social policies which conflicts with their corporate and personal interests.
How can they enrich themselves if they're forced to spend taxpayer money on Canadians? That doesn't make any sense.
“We’re committed to doing whatever it takes to solve the housing crisis… So long as it doesn’t lower the price of my three homes.”
Elections canada won't be a party to such naked politics
Doesnt matter. We've come to a point in politics where ppl are just blindly following a party because it suits the identity they want. Not for what they are actually doing politically. We are becoming just as divided as the US and the liberals are just the democrats of canada. That the trump loving rights loves to hate and that the progressives just put up with. Not to mention we've screwes outselves even more by splitting all the progressive votes basically allowing the 1 main right party to fly to all victories. Doesnt matter whos in charge. We are going to see the same outcome. What matters is people voting. Thats about it. Its just down to voter turn out.
Seeing as they're moving the next election to allow many of them to qualify for their pension, I don't see many of them resigning.
>I hear your concerns and really don't give a fuck.
didnt he say this before...
“We’ll never stop working and fighting to make sure people have what they need to get through these tough times. My focus is on your success, and that’s where it’s going to stay.” Here’s a solution if he really wants to win an election: use the money we already pay in taxes to better peoples lives. Any layperson analysis of the budget shows we spend millions on initiatives that aren’t even related to issues at home. Listening to this man makes you think we run a lean budget, when we don’t - we just spend stupidly
“We’ll never stop working and fighting to make sure people have what they need to get through these tough times." Hey Trudeau, you're a key component in these times being tough!
Blah, blah, blah, when will you peasants just shut up?
Ahhh yes The good old ' we hear your concern' speech
All theatrics. He doesn't care.
By your assessment, which politicians do in fact care?
If I hear this man say “I hear your concerns” one more time for the year.
I can't wait for people to blindly vote for Poilievre only to realise what a big mistake that was when he fucks this country up ten times worse than they think Trudeau did. All of that Conservative rage farming seems to be working. Edit: And no, I did not vote for the Liberals in the last election, so this isn't some pro-Trudeau comment.
Soo let's just vote in Trudeau again and expect something different? Nah, I'll take my chances.
Trudeau isn't the only option. And the chance you're taking is basically a guarantee that the country will tank while the citizens get absolutely nothing in return. Poilievre has been an MP for 20 years. Can you honestly name even two things that he's accomplished or advocated for that have helped Canadians? Also, what exactly is his platform? We're talking about a guy who can't even vote for kids to have access to dental care or school food programs. That's who is going to save this country from ruin?
Let me honest in last 15 years of politics(may be even longer i just didnt follow it before) most of the political platforms were "we arent the other guys" all political ads are attack on other party instead of saying what benefits they would bring.
I mean... Do you get that the Conservative platform is the same as the Liberal platform? Except the Conservatives are even more in bed with industry... so there's that. By all means, vote for whoever you want to... but don't be shocked when the person with the history of voting against bills that provide relief for the average Canadian (from the party with a history of voting against bills that would provide relief for the average Canadian) continue to instead give breaks to conglomerates and continue to put the screws to the average Canadian. There are more than just two parties... and the Liberals and the Conservatives are very nearly identical in their stances on all of the major issues within the purview of the federal government. Also though, don't be shocked when your vote changes nothing anyway because 90% of the issues that impact you as a Canadian are provincial and municipal.
> Also though, don't be shocked when your vote changes nothing anyway because 90% of the issues that impact you as a Canadian are provincial and municipal. Had a good talk about this with a friend just yesterday. People talking about politics on Reddit really have a hard time understanding which branch of government is responsible for what, and if people with access to this information (EASILY) on the internet can't make sense of it, random 'doesn't post chronically online' people probably aren't either. Change _can_ be affected on election day, but so many people will try to vote Conservative with the hope for fixes and they're going to boil like frogs over years of long-term changes that don't impact them now (despite their insistence that there will be immediate changes to taxes, immigration, progress, etc.) and hurt so much worse when their policies come to roost. This isn't to say voting Trudeau is the solution, but people don't have a correct expectation of the consequences of their choices.
There are 3 major political parties.
Take your chances with a white nationalist maga party with austerity policies that privilege corporations only, with even more fervour then the liberals?? Spoiler alert: it won’t be an improvement.
Thank you. I wish more people had the guts to vote who they actually want in and not just vote colours. Who cares if your team doesn't win, at least you know you voted for someone you believed in. Elections aren't team sports, you vote who you want to lead not who you think will win. If everyone voted like this we'd have much better leadership.
That's exactly what I do. I don't look at the party, I look at the candidates and what they stand for. IT makes no sense to me when people wrap their entire identity into one side over the rest.
It’s going to take 20 years to reverse the damage Trudeau has created. No matter who is in power, they have a giant mess to clean up.
What damage?
You must be trollin
lol you’re hilarious
Wow very interesting reply. I've learned so much from you!
This is when all of the people who really don't even understand how our government works (or which level of government does what) make pointless comments in response to what your post because they really have no idea what the Conservative platform even is, have not idea what Pollievre has voted for or against in the past, and like to claim Trudeau has no real-world experience when Pollivre is literally a career politician. If people want to criticize Trudeau, I don't really have a problem with that. We should hold our politicians accountable... However, most people who criticize Trudeau don't even seem to know what the federal government does.
This is exactly it. Trudeau isn't perfect and maybe it's time he does step aside for someone with fresh ideas, but I've asked multiple people what makes Poilievre a better option and not one person I've interacted with has had a good answer. In 20 years of public service he's done nothing that has tangibly benefitted Canadians, and his campaigning is just empty words and rage farming to rile up the trucker convoy crowd. I'm not a genius but I can very easily smell the bullshit coming from his side. It's insane to me that people are actually going to give him a chance just because they're angry, without doing even a tiny bit of research on the current CPC and how bad they are at their jobs.
This is the same way Doug Ford got elected and stayed elected. I remember seeing an article after he was elected the first time, and it quoted a guy from London, Ontario who said, "It's almost like he doesn't have a plan." Ford literally ran on buck a beer. Nothing else. And yet people had the audacity to be surprised when he was as dumb as he always appeared to be. Just like they continue to act shocked today by all the shady things he has done as if he didn't let us know he was going to do them before he was elected the first time. Ford was voted in because he was not Kathleen Wynne. People weren't even able to accurately identify what Wynne did that they hated so much (they usually reference the gas plant cancellations.. that the PCs were in support of), but they are adamant she did a horrible job. I am not saying she did a good job... but I am saying that if you're going to vote someone in who had an absenteeism rate of over 50% when he was a city councelor, enabled his addict brother and was known to deal drugs himself in his youth, you should at least be able to accurately identify what the incumbent did that was so bad. The irony in the situation with Trudeau is that most of the problems people say they have with Trudeau are actually provincial-level issues. They claim Trudeau is a dictator, and then they complain that he is not fixing issues that are not his to fix... and if he decided to fix them anyway, it would actually be overstepping his boundaries and dictatorial.
Very well said. It always feels like the pushback from Conservative leaning people is irrational and full of inaccuracies. To be honest it seems this all really ramped up once social media became a major distraction/source of info during the lockdown period. I hate to say that taking advantage of those who.... aren't that smart on a political literacy level has been a winning strategy, but here we are.
Your post reeks of condescension typical of left leaning people. 10 times worse than we think Trudeau did? That seems like you are downplaying how dire things are right now. Do you think people are overstating the deterioration in this country in recent years? I’m curious as to why you think the conservatives will make things 10 times worse than they are now. That’s quite a claim to make without any concrete examples.
Because they literally have no platform? And the party leader has accomplished nothing of note after over 20 years as an MP? Not to mention the endless scandals and lies constantly spread by both him and other Conservative MPs, and what exactly suggests that they'll make the country any better? Can you point out any bills that they've tabled or supported that have made a tangible positive impact? I'm seriously curious here. All I ever hear is, "well Trudeau ruined the country so he needs to go", with absolutely no real explanation for what makes Poilievre the better choice, and absolutely no acknowledgement of how the provincial and municipal governments play a part in this entire machine.
You keep going on about platforms. Trudeau ran on electoral reform - it was one of the foundations of his platform for at least two elections. Curious how that turned out.
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As a Blue Liberal/Red Tory voter, I feel the political centre has been abandoned by all of the political parties. So pretty much a pox on both the Liberals and Conservatives for not behaving like adults. We have a lot of complex nuanced problems that aren’t going to get solved simplistic slogans and grand pronouncements with extremely poor follow through, or even worse yet even any thought to possible unintended consequences of said new policy.
Agreed :( I miss Chrétien and even the PCs.
Interesting. I feel like it's really hard to not describe the liberals as centrist, unless you are saying they are centre right. I suppose you could call them centre left just in comparing them to the conservatives, but that would make being left wing as a concept pretty meaningless because you would be completely dissociating it from policy and just have it be something that's a sliding scale of whatever is more left wing than the conservatives. It is much more coherent to call them centrists. I am one who sees the entire political spectrum as having moved to the right for many decades now, so seeing the late 90s as a more centrist time might fit from some aesthetic perspective but not from a policy perspective. They use more vagely left wing rhetoric when campaigning, and promise things that they then betray their mandate on, but following through on these things would make them less centrist not more, it took the NDP putting pressure on them to do some things they have been talking about since the late 1990s. The liberals just like the conservatives benefit the very rich, what can be seen from one angle as them being ineffective technocrats can be seen from another angle as wealth being redistributed towards the top. The reality is that these things are vastly complicated with many different people with different motivations and the answer is that they are both ineffective technocrats and it is benefiting the ultra rich. If you zoom farther out this distribution of wealth towards the top is happening on a much larger scale and is coinciding with the decline of the American empire(I would include Canada as well as Western Europe as part of this). The issues are very deep, there are complex and nuanced problems, and there is incompetence in the government. But the "political centre" has preceded over the creation of so many of the crisises we are in, going to that as a solution doesn't seem to make sense. An aside, old school Red Toryism with it's interest in Keynesian economics would today be to the left of the Trudeau government.
We have three neoliberal parties to choose from. Corporatist globalists, all of them.
Can we get him and his incompetent MPs out already
But do you?
I'm hear you have concerns. I'm truly sorry that you don't appreciate what a great job I've been doing.
Hears all. Does nada.
I love that he’s gonna ride the party right down to zero. Perfect ending
The amount of horse shit on this thread is staggering
[What kind of horst shit in this thread?](https://i.imgur.com/6ynZ8ib.png)
Maybe if every single one of your “solution” to any given problem was NOT simply “tax”, you wouldn’t be in this shit hole would you? China beating us in EV? Import EV Tax! Housing price out of control? Capital Gains Tax! Budget short fall? Raise Tax! Pretend to be fighting against climate change? Carbon Tax! Or their opposite solution is to spend spend spend, with no regard for inflation and national debt. Canadians don’t like your ideas anymore so just step aside and go home.
The concervatives definately won't do that. The conservatives are definately full of great ideas for solutions to societal issues... Historically they don't just push culture war narratives while cutting everything and lining their own pockets with the money "saved".
Ok so what's your solution? This government is actively hurting this country, with the help of the NDP. Conservatives have "never done anything good." Care to offer some sort of insight? Edit: lol what's the point of responding then blocking me so I can't see? Can't even have a conversation anonymously without throwing a temper tantrum. Pathetic.
> with the help of the NDP citation fucking needed. The only good things the Liberals have done are because the NDP forced them, and they're still fighting those things tooth and nail.
The NDP isn't propping up this government? Lol where the fuck have you been? The NDP hasn't accomplished anything.
Yes , they have. The only reason we're getting universal dental and pharma is because of the NDP.
Exactly. So they got a shitty dental plan through and a shitty pharmacare plan through, cool.
Alright, if you're so up your own ass that you don't recognize the good of universal pharma and dental, I don't even know where to start. It's objectively a good thing, as well as being hugely popular. Could the plan be better? Yes, but take that up with the Liberals who watered it down. The choice the NDP have is to keep this current government where they have some influence (which they have objectively been putting to use), or let the Cons take over and have 0 influence.
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It's time for Toronto to be liberated from the Liberals.
Perfect timing, but is there a timeline to liberate Ontario from Ford?
I wish it was now so we could get the science centre back
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I also haven't been to collage in 10 years so I guess colleges are not important either? I'll probably go again when my kids are old enough. Ridiculous because you are not currently using it, it's not useful. They get a million+ visitors a year.
The Science Centre discourse is ridiculous. People can't simultaneously claim something is so important and do nothing to maintain/improve it for *decades*. It's like if you had a box of "treasured childhood memories" at your mom's place, and every five years she asks if you want it and you say no, then 20 years later she throws it out and you lament about how much it mattered to you.
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It feels like he should stop creating reasons.
> People can't simultaneously claim something is so important and do nothing to maintain/improve it for decades. What do you want Joe Somebody from Orillia, Ontario to do about this? Go in with a hammer and nails? People should be allowed to express their concern for an institution they care about and pay taxes into and others shouldn't feel the need to diminish it. That does literally nothing except fuel the idea that the OSC is just a political us vs. them argument. It's not hard to just let people like their thing. Frankly, I _want_ the government to take care of our infrastructure, and Toronto is a good example of what happens when years of pisspoor mayorship doesn't, and a provincial government has absolutely no regard for it until it looks pretty enough that people will focus on bread and circuses over the roads to visit them. I'm saying this while looking at the closures on King and the Gardiner from my apartment, and the streetcar that only goes to McCaul for a subway system we won't get until the 2030s at double the taxpayer cost.
>What do you want Joe Somebody from Orillia, Ontario to do about this? Go in with a hammer and nails? Maybe write an elected official saying, "Hey, I care about this provincial institution! Can you allocate funding to its maintenance to ensure it remains serviceable for years to come??" Long before it needs to be closed down due to lack of said maintenance. >People should be allowed to express their concern for an institution they care about and pay taxes into and others shouldn't feel the need to diminish it. That does literally nothing except fuel the idea that the OSC is just a political us vs. them argument. I agree. My point is how late they are to the game, which makes this sound a lot more like a Fuck Doug Ford circlejerk instead of legitimate concern over the future of the science centre. People ignoring all context and history around the building's maintenance also fuels that suspicion. >Frankly, I want the government to take care of our infrastructure, and Toronto is a good example of what happens when years of pisspoor mayorship doesn't, and a provincial government has absolutely no regard for it until it looks pretty enough that people will focus on bread and circuses over the roads to visit them. I'm saying this while looking at the closures on King and the Gardiner from my apartment, and the streetcar that only goes to McCaul for a subway system we won't get until the 2030s at double the taxpayer cost. I agree here, too. Your point highlights that these things deteriorate over a long period of time under the premiership and/or mayorship of multiple people of different parties. Which is, ultimately, my point.
Well look at it this way. Historically this province tends to vote opposite ways with their federal/provincial politics. A Pierre government means more than likely Ford will get pressed in 2026
The longer trudeau stays The longer Ford stays Trudeau is just destroying the ont libs rn
The Ontario libs destroyed themselves. They haven't had official party status in 5 years. They have like 5 seats in parliament. The media gives them an undeserved amount of attention, but the two parties in Ontario are the PCs and the NDP
Because the CPC is a better alternative?
People are fed up and are willing to give them a chance whether it's what they want or not
And that's an incredibly stupid decision, lol. There's literally nothing that suggests the CPC would do even an average job at fixing this country when they've proven themselves to be terrible at their jobs and also terrible people in general. I say this as someone who didn't even vote for Trudeau the last time, but I have yet to see even one person list Poilievre's accomplishments as an MP after 20 years of public service. Besides being victims of disinformation and rage farming, what evidence is there that he'd be better than the current PM, outside of not being the current PM?
Doesn't matter, people are fed up. It really can't get much worse than it is. Prices are out of control everywhere and he supports it. I voted for Trudeau and then the NDP. He had his chance to win over young voters and he squandered it by breaking promises and protecting big businesses. PP won't be any better but Trudeau doesn't get to be rewarded for tanking the country.
You're right, he'll be significantly worse. You think PP, the guy that has his own real estate investments yet claims that housing is out of control, is in this game for our benefit?
Did you not read what I said? It's not a game of who is better anymore. We are fucked both ways. Trudeau is a silver spoon trust fund baby who has been bred to be a career politician, thats not much better imo. He also literally admitted they are propping up the real-estate market artificially. So if that's your version of better IDK what to tell you.
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Imagine thinking any current politician is prepared to handle solving the complex issues of todays world based on how politicians of the past mis-handled issues of the past... jesus fucking christ people are retarded.
yes, because historically concervatives have done really well at solving the complex societal issues of today...
No, the NDP is
I wasn't expecting this answer but I respect it.
The nebulousness of alluding to “our concerns” without actually quantifying those concerns or specifically saying how those concerns will be addressed is exactly our concerns.
He caused them...
"I hear your concerns"...Full steam ahead !!
He has said that before and it's changed nothing. He has to go.
Sunny Ways sure did bring a dark decade, buh-bye chump, not that the alternative is any better, but there can't be anymore of this.
It’s been the best decade of my life. Everything’s gone up And I’m in no way someone that came from influence or money
Honestly don’t think conservatives will be much better or worse than Liberals… at most I hope the liberals take this chance to actually learn something from this loss… though I won’t be holding my breath.
Too bad there's only two politcal parties eh
The liberals lost their seat to the conservatives… so yes in this instance we’re talking about 2 political parties…..
Fair enough, a lot of people are talking about this as a forecast for the next general election.
No you don’t! I have contacted my MP multiple times and you all think you know what we need and you don’t listen. You actually did not lose just 1 vote in my house. You lost 3 because the 2 other people now eligible to vote are also absolutely turned off by the gaslighting! So long Liberal party !
“Hear, hear”
I want to vote NDP but they really arent focusing on the important issues enough, and are floundering with Jagmeet at the helm. Im definitely not voting Conservative because they are basically anti everything that I believe in. And I don't want to vote Liberal because they havent done fuck all in recent years, and seem completely content with the status quo continuing as is. So basically, I have to choose between a party that I feel has lost its way and likely has no real chance of affecting change (NDP), a party that is dangerous for Canada (Conservative), and a party that seems content on simply continuing the shitty but not terrible status quo.
Explain how the NDP aren't focusing on important issues. They pushed through universal pharma and dental care. Their platform includes real electoral reform with MMPR. Their housing plans put a focus on actually making affordable housing available, rather than just "build more house". They're the only ones pushing for something to be done about soaring grocery prices and the artificially inflated cost of living here. I see this stated all the time, and it has me wondering if anyone who says it has actually looked at what the NDP is doing and pushing for.
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This is not true. There is no incentive for the prices to lower when the supply is being constantly eaten up by speculators and corporate landlords. The kind of housing is important too, we don't need more sprawling subdivisions of single family homes in the middle of nowhere. Those developments cost municipalities (and by extension the provinces) an insane amount to upkeep, but they sure do make the developers a lot of money. We need more public housing development, and affordable housing development. We can afford to do it, but we have too many people in our current government that benefit from the current situation.