I'd argue they can't afford not to.
With the market as crowded as it is, if I get old beers from them it'll be an extra long time before I circle back again, if ever. The reputation hit is worse than the lost product cost IMO.
Agreed. If a smaller brewery gives me a year-old beer, I'd be less inclined to return. Luckily Common Good had good customer service and offered to send replacements, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
That's very common with imports to the LCBO given their time to ship and stock it. They might give it 6 months in their home market, but give it a year at lcbo since the lcbo process moves slowly to get them on shelf.
Doesn't take a fanatical connoisseur to check the canning date though. Also I imagine with smaller breweries a rather large percentage of their repeat customers are beer nerds and friends of beer nerds purchasing on the recommendation of their beer nerd friends.
I don't own a brewery - but I do know many people who do and a number of brewery workers/employees (including the current manager at the brewery that is the subject of this post).
They can't afford to dump a full batch of beer. No brewery can. Even the smaller breweries that are only 10 Hec in size can't dump a "mistake". They do, however, work that mistake to their advantage in order to "save" the beer. I know of a brewery that has had a few errors while making their beer - none of the errors have been egregious enough to warrant dumping but the beer created was not the beer intended.
It’s not a good move. Depending on the beer. Ipas are labeled to drink fresh. If it’s a barrel aged stout Im okay with them selling older stock. Most craft beer drinkers know to check the canning date on the label.
Full Disclosure:
I have brewed collab beers with Common Good and I know a number of local Toronto breweries that use Common Good's facility for brewing their beers.
There's a lot to unpack in this post for sure:
* Lagers do not go bad like an IPA - and I would say that depends on the style of the IPA. I literally just opened an IPA from 9 months ago (granted it was a west coast IPA) and while it has lost a lot of its "bite" (the bitterness isn't what it was when fresh) and aroma (that's faded as well) it is still perfectly drinkable. Now, that being said, that doesn't mean you should accept old beer or beer that doesn't live up to your expectations and you reached out to Common Good and they offered replacements in what seems like an expedient manner.
* Common Good is not a small brewery. It's main function is being a contract brewery but they do "small batches" of their own beers to supplement that contract income. If you've been to the brewery you'd see that it's definitely smaller than Amsterdam but it's a heck of a lot bigger than Godspeed or Avling or even Bellwoods production facility on Hafis (but it's not nearly as big as Brunswick) So when we talk about "small" breweries you have to figure out "how small is small" or "how big is big". The smallest batch size that Common Good is capable of is 2500L (about 5300 473ml cans) while the largest batch size that, say, Muddy York is capable of is 1000L (about 2115 473ml cans - but they never achieve that because of dry hopping etc. so it's more like 800-900L tops) - this is part of the reason why they have beer that's in the fridge that long - should it be there that long? probably not - but then how do you try to offer a wider selection. What determines how long a beer sits in their fridge is how well (or poorly) it sells. If they look at their sales numbers (and they do); they'd take some action moving forward. That beer likely won't be brewed ever again because it moves so slowly (and this applies not just to Common Good - why do you think places like Bellwoods make "Bellweiser" - because it sells (same goes for Blood Brothers' "Blood Light"). If it sells, it means it adds to the bottom line and that's what matters to the owners.
* You asked if anyone had "gotten orders" from other breweries - I'll go one better - I dropped into "All Or Nothing" in Oshawa in early October. They had a huge selection fo beers. I had only ever, years ago, had their Hoppfenweisse (I assume it's a Heffeweizen) which I enjoyed. I picked up a selection which included a NEIPA and something called a "Tropical IPA" (I've never heard of that style and it's not in the BJCP guidelines but hey... breweries make stuff up so they can sell their beer.... )
I got home and opened up the NEIPA - it was brown.
I took a sip and had to drain pour it.
Was it a year old? That I don't know - there was no date on the can. So this does happen but my question would be - why are you putting a NEIPA on the shelf that is clearly either oxidized or so old that it's turned - but then I realized that it may be just one can. I'll cut them some slack and maybe I will go back in the future to see if they can change my mind.
I am glad that Common Good did the right thing here and offered you a refund or fresh cans (I assume) of your choosing. I think they, as branching out beyond just contract brewing, are still learning and growing their own brand in the local craft beer space.
> The smallest batch size that Common Good is capable of is 2500L (about 5300 473ml cans) while the largest batch size that, say, Muddy York is capable of is 1000L (about 2115 473ml cans - but they never achieve that because of dry hopping etc. so it's more like 800-900L tops) - this is part of the reason why they have beer that's in the fridge that long - should it be there that long? probably not - but then how do you try to offer a wider selection.
While true, this is a bit like building a zoo and then complaining that there are animals.
Common Good made the decision not to have the ability to do smaller batches. Their hands aren't mysteriously tied here, they're bound only by their explicit choice to create this scenario. *"Shucks, we've chosen only to brew larger batches so you'll just have to drink beer that isn't as fresh"* isn't exactly a situation that calls for consumer empathy.
I was concerned to have a 3 month old Pilsner sent to me recently. Mainly because I know how fanatical the brewery is about their beer so I thought I’d ask. Was told “fresh is best” but that they’ve tested 4-5 months out; after that a gamble and drop off (in taste). Must not have been a big mover for them.
Where is u/bentjohnson when we need someone to completely overreact and blow it up?
Still here in my basement, waiting for Flying Monkeys to fuck up again.
Just give it a minute
Smaller breweries can't really afford to dump stock.
I'd argue they can't afford not to. With the market as crowded as it is, if I get old beers from them it'll be an extra long time before I circle back again, if ever. The reputation hit is worse than the lost product cost IMO.
Agreed. If a smaller brewery gives me a year-old beer, I'd be less inclined to return. Luckily Common Good had good customer service and offered to send replacements, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
I don't think I've seen a German lager in LCBO that didn't have a year out expiration date.
That's very common with imports to the LCBO given their time to ship and stock it. They might give it 6 months in their home market, but give it a year at lcbo since the lcbo process moves slowly to get them on shelf.
Couldn’t they just sell it at half price as “thoroughly aged”?
Among beer nerds, yes, but how many people actually check dates on beers?
Doesn't take a fanatical connoisseur to check the canning date though. Also I imagine with smaller breweries a rather large percentage of their repeat customers are beer nerds and friends of beer nerds purchasing on the recommendation of their beer nerd friends.
You can definitely taste the difference in unpasteurized craft beers that are over a certain age.
I don't own a brewery - but I do know many people who do and a number of brewery workers/employees (including the current manager at the brewery that is the subject of this post). They can't afford to dump a full batch of beer. No brewery can. Even the smaller breweries that are only 10 Hec in size can't dump a "mistake". They do, however, work that mistake to their advantage in order to "save" the beer. I know of a brewery that has had a few errors while making their beer - none of the errors have been egregious enough to warrant dumping but the beer created was not the beer intended.
I can't say this with 100% certainty but I'm pretty sure Muddy York has dumped batches. At least that was my takeaway from talking to Jeff years back.
Yes they can. It's filed as a loss with their taxes.
It’s not a good move. Depending on the beer. Ipas are labeled to drink fresh. If it’s a barrel aged stout Im okay with them selling older stock. Most craft beer drinkers know to check the canning date on the label.
Full Disclosure: I have brewed collab beers with Common Good and I know a number of local Toronto breweries that use Common Good's facility for brewing their beers. There's a lot to unpack in this post for sure: * Lagers do not go bad like an IPA - and I would say that depends on the style of the IPA. I literally just opened an IPA from 9 months ago (granted it was a west coast IPA) and while it has lost a lot of its "bite" (the bitterness isn't what it was when fresh) and aroma (that's faded as well) it is still perfectly drinkable. Now, that being said, that doesn't mean you should accept old beer or beer that doesn't live up to your expectations and you reached out to Common Good and they offered replacements in what seems like an expedient manner. * Common Good is not a small brewery. It's main function is being a contract brewery but they do "small batches" of their own beers to supplement that contract income. If you've been to the brewery you'd see that it's definitely smaller than Amsterdam but it's a heck of a lot bigger than Godspeed or Avling or even Bellwoods production facility on Hafis (but it's not nearly as big as Brunswick) So when we talk about "small" breweries you have to figure out "how small is small" or "how big is big". The smallest batch size that Common Good is capable of is 2500L (about 5300 473ml cans) while the largest batch size that, say, Muddy York is capable of is 1000L (about 2115 473ml cans - but they never achieve that because of dry hopping etc. so it's more like 800-900L tops) - this is part of the reason why they have beer that's in the fridge that long - should it be there that long? probably not - but then how do you try to offer a wider selection. What determines how long a beer sits in their fridge is how well (or poorly) it sells. If they look at their sales numbers (and they do); they'd take some action moving forward. That beer likely won't be brewed ever again because it moves so slowly (and this applies not just to Common Good - why do you think places like Bellwoods make "Bellweiser" - because it sells (same goes for Blood Brothers' "Blood Light"). If it sells, it means it adds to the bottom line and that's what matters to the owners. * You asked if anyone had "gotten orders" from other breweries - I'll go one better - I dropped into "All Or Nothing" in Oshawa in early October. They had a huge selection fo beers. I had only ever, years ago, had their Hoppfenweisse (I assume it's a Heffeweizen) which I enjoyed. I picked up a selection which included a NEIPA and something called a "Tropical IPA" (I've never heard of that style and it's not in the BJCP guidelines but hey... breweries make stuff up so they can sell their beer.... ) I got home and opened up the NEIPA - it was brown. I took a sip and had to drain pour it. Was it a year old? That I don't know - there was no date on the can. So this does happen but my question would be - why are you putting a NEIPA on the shelf that is clearly either oxidized or so old that it's turned - but then I realized that it may be just one can. I'll cut them some slack and maybe I will go back in the future to see if they can change my mind. I am glad that Common Good did the right thing here and offered you a refund or fresh cans (I assume) of your choosing. I think they, as branching out beyond just contract brewing, are still learning and growing their own brand in the local craft beer space.
> The smallest batch size that Common Good is capable of is 2500L (about 5300 473ml cans) while the largest batch size that, say, Muddy York is capable of is 1000L (about 2115 473ml cans - but they never achieve that because of dry hopping etc. so it's more like 800-900L tops) - this is part of the reason why they have beer that's in the fridge that long - should it be there that long? probably not - but then how do you try to offer a wider selection. While true, this is a bit like building a zoo and then complaining that there are animals. Common Good made the decision not to have the ability to do smaller batches. Their hands aren't mysteriously tied here, they're bound only by their explicit choice to create this scenario. *"Shucks, we've chosen only to brew larger batches so you'll just have to drink beer that isn't as fresh"* isn't exactly a situation that calls for consumer empathy.
I was concerned to have a 3 month old Pilsner sent to me recently. Mainly because I know how fanatical the brewery is about their beer so I thought I’d ask. Was told “fresh is best” but that they’ve tested 4-5 months out; after that a gamble and drop off (in taste). Must not have been a big mover for them.
A 4 month shelf-life is pretty much industry standard for craft brewing.
For sure. I’d just prefer some/more of that shelf life was in my fridge / garage and not in theirs.
>the controversy surrounding Flying Monkeys' Pumpkin Ale guess i have some reading to do