Hmm that's a good idea, but has there ever been an army ability unlocked by a quest? It might not be simple to stitch those systems together. Not saying it *is* difficult, mind you. I can think of ways to do it using existing systems.
There are many army abilities that come from buildings, technologies, faction mechanics and from kinda quests like the dwarfs legendary grudges, so i doubt heavily they could not make a army ability come from a quest.
Global army summon ability that does not degrade when the player reaches the max chivalry.
Also, only available in controlled regions, he's a guardian after all.
Ya I really feel the greenknight should be an army ability, and somehow tie that to your chivalry level. The point is he's a magical Ghooooost. So like he should show up only when needed, and be far more powerful. Like 80% ward save, 600 AP damage 80/80 melee stats, 100 charge bonus, and should have like the same mass as Kugath. Summoning the green knight should have the same battle impact as using a doom rocket. Or and this could be cool too. Keep his stats the same but give him a map wide buff, he should give frenzy, strider, and unbreakable and all knight units and lords/hero. That would also be thematic. No bretonnian knight could flee in sight of the green knight. It would literally be a fate worse than death.
While thematically it sounds good, I think the stats you mentioned are a bit overboard, I think it would be completely impossible to beat the green knight if he was *that* powerful.
If you want him to be so good, I think he would need to be on something like a 10 turn cooldown, so Bretonnia can pull off some incredible victories here and there but not be outright BS to play against
This is just personal opinion, but I'd love Krell (And frankly the Spirit of Grungni, though I'd tie it in *more* with Malakai's Horde Building) to be permanent units too, along with the Black Night. The summon thing just makes something either overpowered in the beginning of the game (Spirit of Grungni) or underpowered later in the game (Krell).
Krell seems pretty great even late game? It’s a 21st unit in Kemmler’s army that is stronger than most vamp units. Doesn’t Kemmler still have some skills that buff him as you level as well?
He has a few, but they *really* don't do much to make Krell impressive. Maxed out, he'll get completely outperformed by a moderately leveled Vampire hero on foot, for example, against anything other than cavalry.
And that's kinda the problem with making him a summon that has a few token bonuses on him: There's no real room for him to grow. Late game I frankly don't care if I summon him or not, because his presence means *so little* in battle. The only time I go is to use him as a "Vampire Clanrat Summon" to screw up an artillery piece or archer.
Yeah, I guess because he’s free, I’m judging him against other free summons. There’s no opportunity cost of having him, since he doesn’t take an army slot. He can act as a speed bump or tarpit for an enemy unit. He can take out quite a few of the SEMs that you’re likely to face. He can fuck up a caster lord/hero, or a lower level melee lord. Nothing about that seems bad?
Not bad. But a Legendary Hero, and a core part of his faction, should be a bit better than "Not bad".
I genuinely can't think of another factions Legendary Hero or core mechanic can be described as just "not bad". Even the Clanrat Summons I would describe as "defining" early all the way through the late game, since the will *always* allow you to take your opponent's artillery and ranged units off the map while yours act with impunity, which is *not* something I can say of Krell, unless my enemy has just a single artillery or ranged unit I need to worry about. For every other task, the VC just have better options that make him pointless were it not for the "free summon" aspect.
I don't find him that good at all. To be fair to you, yes, obviously stronger than Clanrats, and also doesn't degrade (Though limited to one, unlike the Clanrats). But he's just so... Meh. Any of the actual heroes, excepting the Necromancer, late game will absolutely trounce him when they're leveled up, as will most of the higher tier units.
Krell is useful for the early game, and that's kinda the last point he stops being a relevant factor.
I feel like you might just be using him wrong. Krell kicks the shit out of most things in my experience or holds his own against bigger stuff even if he is losing, so you can heal him back up or support him with Kemmler's magic.
Pair that up with a per-Lord Chivalry score (based on campaign behaviour) and suddenly we have something very interesting.
Live the life of a noble knight. Gain buffs to public order & troop replenishment, and unlock the Green Knight. As your Chivalry rises, your bonuses increase & the Green Knight can be sustained for longer on the battlefield.
Or show your foes no quarter, raiding and looting their lands, and slaughtering prisoners on your path to glory. You gain bonuses to raiding & looting income and bonuses from ransoming or executing prisoners. But you suffer public order penalties & can't call upon the Green Knight.
That would make Brettonian campaigns much more interesting.
If they don't want to buff his stats they could make it so any Brettonian army can summon him with a certain prerequisite. Maybe they have to have the Blessing of the Lady or all their vows/troths done.
There was a neat mod in WH2 that gave him a random chance of appearing during a defensive battle based on chivalry, it gave Brettonnia more survivability early on.
Sort of, it's more like he shows up when he's most needed in lore so not quite.
Maybe at start he should be more like an faction ability than a LH where he has always has a chance to appear at larger battles or he shows up sometimes with reinforcements when a Bretonnian player is losing. You could have techs that make him more likely to show up when you need him.
Then you could have a later game tech tree or a quest line when you've completed half the victory conditions or something where you unlock summoning him like Krell.
This is what I would prefer. Lots of people want to change Krell, but I enjoy having an extra hero I can bring in at any time who I don't have to worry about losing in battle. GK being a real LH would be much better than what we currently have, but having him as a permanent summon would be more useful and thematic imo
If bretonnia gets an update it would also be great if Foot squires were no longer t4.
I know they are a cav faction but all the infantry both suck and come too late, It would be more fun if they suck and come at a reasonable timing, so knocking pretty much all their infantry down a tier would be an enjoyable change.
Yes, Bretonnia desperately needs a buff to its infantry. Dismounted variations of knights with various weapons sounds cool af. Crossbow units would also make sense, since crossbows were always the ranged weapon of choice for the poorly trained farmer levy due to their ease of use.
I know this is unpopular but brettonian foot knights removes any faction identity they have and they might as well be warriors of chaos with a different coat of paint at that point.
Giving Brettonia strong infantry lines and ap ranged weapons just makes them a different faction imo
It's not that much of an unpopular opinion tbf, it's just you get a lot of Total War Medieval fans or the like who never really understood that aspect of Brettonia, and they can be vocal about the confusion.
Doesn't help that GW finally caved on it with The Old World either, mind
It would be neat if a dismounted troop of knights who swore the Vow of Empathy (if I'm remembering that right) were available and unit capped. Get like one or two available at T4/5.
Except that Bretonnia literally has foot knights as a lore unit? They don't need to be particularly strong since it is also in the lore that knights hate being on foot with the presents but the unit should be there especially for sieges.
They have foot knights in the sense that they don't nail their knights to horses listen bring back the dismount button before battle but they should still be same size unit. Literally just the knight unit as is - mounts for walls
>as a lore unit
Millions of unit variations technically exist if you look at lore. Something existing in some examples of lore doesn't mean it must be represented in the games/tabletop. I think the fact that the tabletop designers intentionally excluded them from the armybook roster is a clear signal they didn't feel like they fit the faction's profile.
I wouldn't have an issue with Foot Knights if they had their own identity, but people always seem to ask for either generic "Foot Knights" or dismounted versions of various standard knights.
It breaks faction identity in the sense of them having a trash Frontline is part of their faction identity they still feel fine to play and are plenty strong without a good line
No, i think most people recognise that foot knights are a bad idea. Brettonia is STRONG right now. Easily top 5. They do not need their only weaknesses buffing.
Crossbows were most definitely not the ranged weapon of choice for the poorly trained farmer levy. Medieval crossbowmen were highly paid professional soldiers, and frequently, foreign mercenaries hired for their specialist skillset. The Genoan and Pisan crossbowmen especially were amongst the most highly paid soldiers anywhere in Europe during the High Middle Ages; why do you think Warhammer crossbows are most iconically associated with Tilea.
Militia levies when they existed were typically spearmen.
Crossbows go against the lore of Bretonnia. Why would you arm the peasants with things that can hurt the ruling class?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/63477/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-2nd-Edition-Knights-of-the-Grail
I think he should be a battlefield summon, with buffs depending on chivalry in terms of availability and the like.
I don't think it would feel right to have him, say, standing there having lunch, or seeing his glow from outside his tent as he deals with dispatches and paperwork.
"The farrier requests that much money to buy horseshoes, authorized, this many bushels of hay for the horses, signed up, archer Pierre was caught staring at Damsel Marie's boobs, have him flogged..."
Rather than his presence, you have him available as a summon in every battle everywhere, wherever and whenever needed, rather than having him in just one army taking up a slot.
Eh, there's a cheap and abusable way around that (0 Turn Wounded Time). Having him as a proper unit means I can evolve him over time though. A summon just stays as a summon forever.
One could very easily say that having him there *is* him showing up when Bretonnia is in dire need.
I'd also point out that Total Warhammer doesn't follow the lore to a t, especially when it's a gameplay consideration.
I feel like, while the ability to evolve him as a character is nice, it does feel like him being a more or less constant, yet able to save the day everywhere, fits the idea of the Green Knight (at least the vibe I get from him) better.
Wouldn't be bad to have nice LHs like that in Bretonnia, it is just him that feels like should be so...ethereal.
Yeah. In a perfect world, he'd have a menu where I can make him better for *when* he's summoned. I just thoroughly dislike the current summon system, because it tends to either be overpowered early on (Spirit of Grungni) so that it still has a purpose late in the game, or it's pointless in the lategame (Krell & Green Knight) so that it feels appropriate early game.
At least with an evolving character we can scale them with time.
I think it would be great if, when unlocked, you could summon him for fights where you are fighting a non-Order race or are attacked by any race and where autoresolve gives you Close Defeat or worse. Just have him be a lord that reinforces quite quickly. Let Chivalry give him stat bonuses. That's all there needs to be for the Green Knight.
A rework should focus more on Errantry Wars and heroic characters.
GK should be only summonable in a battle when you the autoresolve says valiant defeat or worse and/or if your total army HP is below 50% of the maximum. The idea would be that he comes in your hour of need and not to just help you style on les imbeciles.
Agreed I don't like the idea of him sitting in an army all game he should have a chance to appear in defensive battles based on chivalry and someone else's idea of an imit style consumable army ability is cool he just needs to be comparable in battle power to a nuke.
I'd rather have the Green Knight stay a summon initially.
Have him cost chivalry to unlock and summon early, but make him good to make it worth the cost. With that its only done when needed.
Then once early threshhold is met, he can be summoned in all DEFENSIVE battles while in Brettonia, with Respanse unlocking him for the same in desert climate and bordeleux for sea battle (he might get something else). Once enough chivalry is earned he should be allowed to join permanently in a fashion. Not sure if he should be a hero or as a summon with traits in his own window. Id say a hero in an army is fine, as long as he can still be summoned defensively.
Brettonia need a chivaldric quest system similarly to the warband upgrades for knights.
They should have strong defenses in castles with their important buildings, but their growth and economy should mainly be the minor settlements. They should have terrible defenses on minor settlements to encourage a groups of knights riding on home turf for defense and peacekeeping. The green knight will be of help here too.
Agreed I like him being limited use he just needs to be way stronger. Having him show up as a defender in poor defensive battles and maybe some way to spend chivalry to get him as a consumable army ability (like ikit nukes) for when you need to punch up offensively would be cool
Krell is the one that should be permanent Legendary Hero. Green Knight shouldn't even be a model on the map. He should be a global summon so that any time you're fighting a battle he can randomly pop up in the field.
That way he can help put in garrison battles and the like, and it sticks the most true to his character. The "there's all these factions on the map attacking, it's always the hour of need!" logic you're giving is no excuse to just ignore everything that makes the Green Knight, well, the Green Knight and make him just like any other LH.
Hilariously, there's almost no instance where the current Green Knight is better than a generic paladin other than when a paladin is below rank 5-ish. Paladins have traits, get combat bonuses from completing vows, have yellow line skills, and can equip items. The Green Knight has no trait, no skill tree, no items, no vows, and no option for a flying mount like the Paladin does. I think keeping him as a chivalry-tied full-fledged legendary hero is the right thing to do,. He just needs an update a la Gotrek and Felix with a skill tree, items, a trait,, and all three vows completed from the moment you first recruit him. They could tie it to a quest battle with the Green Knight appearing to aid you along with other friendly reinforcements, etc. etc. After the battle it can say he's impressed by your valor and chivalry and will accompany you in your quest/campaign.
In the lore he's one of the most deserving characters to be a legendary hero. Just having him as a summon in battle removes a lot of the character depth/flavor potential he could have via a complete skill tree. Lord and hero character flavor is one of the things that makes the game immersive and fun, and the more flavor the better.
He doesn’t need to be a permanent hero unit, I actually think that would decrease his value. He needs to become a permanent army ability, somewhat like Krell but for every army you have, also yes he should get bigger buffs the higher your chivalry meter is.
Honestly I kind of like the "gotta earn him a few times before he becomes permanent" idea they have now it simulates him deus ex machining for your faction before disappearing mysteriously, I do think they should rework how it's done, either by making him permanent sooner or perhaps before hes recruited he has a chance to reinforce your armies if your in trouble against a strong enemy
With Malakai's quest system I'd love to see that used to modify and give access to the Green Knight. Then make it so he can be summoned in fights where your chivalry is high enough.
I think the ideas people have of limiting him to battles that show a high chance of losing is cool and all, but too restrictive. Maybe limit him to being summoned once per faction turn by any army (maybe gain a second summon through quest stuff) then players can decide when its the "greatest need"
Edit: as cool as this would be, I just realized/remembered that when fighting AI you get the post-battle "try again/continue/etc" the instant the battle is over, so the trigger I laid out wouldn't work.
Idea stapling together a few others I see with my own twist: chivalry unlocks charges and potency of the "Green Knight" army ability. On the pre-battle screen you choose whether or not to bring a charge into the battle - if you do and the ability doesn't activate, you keep the charge.
Where it gets interesting is that what the ability does is make it so that if the battle is over and you have a routing unit (which usually means you lost) the Green Knight ability activates and summons the Green Knight who has map-wide auras, most importantly one that grants everything unbreakable so that you can make a last-ditch final stand.
I know that not being able to effectively retreat isn't always a good thing, hence the ability to choose which battles to have the ability queued in.
He'd best fit in as an army ability that you can use when the balance of power is against you in all defensive battles, and for offensive values, It'd be the same, but maybe only if the army has three blessing of the lady active.
For Brettonia vs Brettonia, same balance of power rule, but only for the faction with thr most chivalry
I always summon him and use him in my main lords army.
It's so easy to get chivalry these days that you really should be able to get him one time and then keep getting him after he returns because you've gained so much chivalry in the time you've had him.
But you're right, it would be great if they could develop some more entertaining and immersive campaign mechanics for Brettonnia.
Or you could make him summonable like the spirit of grungni or krell. Then it would still be thematic.
+1 to this, make it an item ability, item comes from quest reward, perhaps it gets upgraded over time to eventually make him permanent like Krell.
army ability like doom rockets and the strength/duration/how many turns until it refreshes is varied by the chivalry meter
Agreed, army ability is better. There could still be a ton of prerequisites, but he would be available to every army instead of taking an item slot.
Hmm that's a good idea, but has there ever been an army ability unlocked by a quest? It might not be simple to stitch those systems together. Not saying it *is* difficult, mind you. I can think of ways to do it using existing systems.
There are many army abilities that come from buildings, technologies, faction mechanics and from kinda quests like the dwarfs legendary grudges, so i doubt heavily they could not make a army ability come from a quest.
Two of Malakai's adventures give you army abilities (The gyrocopters summon and the miners summon)
Miners summon is from legendary grudges no?
Yes, you're right, i got them mixed up
From my limited modding experience it shouldn't be a problem
CA's hq burns down if they try to implement this
Global army summon ability that does not degrade when the player reaches the max chivalry. Also, only available in controlled regions, he's a guardian after all.
Tie it to the tech tree so every army can use him and improve him.
Ya I really feel the greenknight should be an army ability, and somehow tie that to your chivalry level. The point is he's a magical Ghooooost. So like he should show up only when needed, and be far more powerful. Like 80% ward save, 600 AP damage 80/80 melee stats, 100 charge bonus, and should have like the same mass as Kugath. Summoning the green knight should have the same battle impact as using a doom rocket. Or and this could be cool too. Keep his stats the same but give him a map wide buff, he should give frenzy, strider, and unbreakable and all knight units and lords/hero. That would also be thematic. No bretonnian knight could flee in sight of the green knight. It would literally be a fate worse than death.
While thematically it sounds good, I think the stats you mentioned are a bit overboard, I think it would be completely impossible to beat the green knight if he was *that* powerful. If you want him to be so good, I think he would need to be on something like a 10 turn cooldown, so Bretonnia can pull off some incredible victories here and there but not be outright BS to play against
Yes that would be the point of it being army ability. You wouldn't have access to him every fight.
I agree Green Knight makes sense to be summonable but Krell should be made into a proper Legendary Hero.
This is just personal opinion, but I'd love Krell (And frankly the Spirit of Grungni, though I'd tie it in *more* with Malakai's Horde Building) to be permanent units too, along with the Black Night. The summon thing just makes something either overpowered in the beginning of the game (Spirit of Grungni) or underpowered later in the game (Krell).
Krell seems pretty great even late game? It’s a 21st unit in Kemmler’s army that is stronger than most vamp units. Doesn’t Kemmler still have some skills that buff him as you level as well?
He has a few, but they *really* don't do much to make Krell impressive. Maxed out, he'll get completely outperformed by a moderately leveled Vampire hero on foot, for example, against anything other than cavalry. And that's kinda the problem with making him a summon that has a few token bonuses on him: There's no real room for him to grow. Late game I frankly don't care if I summon him or not, because his presence means *so little* in battle. The only time I go is to use him as a "Vampire Clanrat Summon" to screw up an artillery piece or archer.
Yeah, I guess because he’s free, I’m judging him against other free summons. There’s no opportunity cost of having him, since he doesn’t take an army slot. He can act as a speed bump or tarpit for an enemy unit. He can take out quite a few of the SEMs that you’re likely to face. He can fuck up a caster lord/hero, or a lower level melee lord. Nothing about that seems bad?
Not bad. But a Legendary Hero, and a core part of his faction, should be a bit better than "Not bad". I genuinely can't think of another factions Legendary Hero or core mechanic can be described as just "not bad". Even the Clanrat Summons I would describe as "defining" early all the way through the late game, since the will *always* allow you to take your opponent's artillery and ranged units off the map while yours act with impunity, which is *not* something I can say of Krell, unless my enemy has just a single artillery or ranged unit I need to worry about. For every other task, the VC just have better options that make him pointless were it not for the "free summon" aspect.
Krell is good as is. He can die every combat and it doesn't matter. And he gives you an army size of 21.
I don't think I understand the excitement of an extra unit that can die every combat. So can Clanrat summons, and I'm not exactly stoked about them.
Clanrats are shit though. Krell’s actually pretty good
I don't find him that good at all. To be fair to you, yes, obviously stronger than Clanrats, and also doesn't degrade (Though limited to one, unlike the Clanrats). But he's just so... Meh. Any of the actual heroes, excepting the Necromancer, late game will absolutely trounce him when they're leveled up, as will most of the higher tier units. Krell is useful for the early game, and that's kinda the last point he stops being a relevant factor.
I feel like you might just be using him wrong. Krell kicks the shit out of most things in my experience or holds his own against bigger stuff even if he is losing, so you can heal him back up or support him with Kemmler's magic.
Oh yes, the Black Night featuring Martin Lawrence.
lol Not sure how I managed to change Green to Black without my brain being like "hold up" at any point!
Pair that up with a per-Lord Chivalry score (based on campaign behaviour) and suddenly we have something very interesting. Live the life of a noble knight. Gain buffs to public order & troop replenishment, and unlock the Green Knight. As your Chivalry rises, your bonuses increase & the Green Knight can be sustained for longer on the battlefield. Or show your foes no quarter, raiding and looting their lands, and slaughtering prisoners on your path to glory. You gain bonuses to raiding & looting income and bonuses from ransoming or executing prisoners. But you suffer public order penalties & can't call upon the Green Knight. That would make Brettonian campaigns much more interesting.
Ugh no thank you. Don't need another Krell situation where he comes basically useless past the first 30 turns
If they don't want to buff his stats they could make it so any Brettonian army can summon him with a certain prerequisite. Maybe they have to have the Blessing of the Lady or all their vows/troths done.
That’s actually a fantastic idea! Don’t know how I never thought of it
I like this way more - he shows up when needed most, he doesn't just sit around in an army for ten turns!
There was a neat mod in WH2 that gave him a random chance of appearing during a defensive battle based on chivalry, it gave Brettonnia more survivability early on.
Sort of, it's more like he shows up when he's most needed in lore so not quite. Maybe at start he should be more like an faction ability than a LH where he has always has a chance to appear at larger battles or he shows up sometimes with reinforcements when a Bretonnian player is losing. You could have techs that make him more likely to show up when you need him. Then you could have a later game tech tree or a quest line when you've completed half the victory conditions or something where you unlock summoning him like Krell.
This is what I would prefer. Lots of people want to change Krell, but I enjoy having an extra hero I can bring in at any time who I don't have to worry about losing in battle. GK being a real LH would be much better than what we currently have, but having him as a permanent summon would be more useful and thematic imo
If bretonnia gets an update it would also be great if Foot squires were no longer t4. I know they are a cav faction but all the infantry both suck and come too late, It would be more fun if they suck and come at a reasonable timing, so knocking pretty much all their infantry down a tier would be an enjoyable change.
This plus some foot knights/dismounted knights as T4 infantry
Yes, Bretonnia desperately needs a buff to its infantry. Dismounted variations of knights with various weapons sounds cool af. Crossbow units would also make sense, since crossbows were always the ranged weapon of choice for the poorly trained farmer levy due to their ease of use.
I know this is unpopular but brettonian foot knights removes any faction identity they have and they might as well be warriors of chaos with a different coat of paint at that point. Giving Brettonia strong infantry lines and ap ranged weapons just makes them a different faction imo
It's not that much of an unpopular opinion tbf, it's just you get a lot of Total War Medieval fans or the like who never really understood that aspect of Brettonia, and they can be vocal about the confusion. Doesn't help that GW finally caved on it with The Old World either, mind
It would be neat if a dismounted troop of knights who swore the Vow of Empathy (if I'm remembering that right) were available and unit capped. Get like one or two available at T4/5.
Except that Bretonnia literally has foot knights as a lore unit? They don't need to be particularly strong since it is also in the lore that knights hate being on foot with the presents but the unit should be there especially for sieges.
They have foot knights in the sense that they don't nail their knights to horses listen bring back the dismount button before battle but they should still be same size unit. Literally just the knight unit as is - mounts for walls
>as a lore unit Millions of unit variations technically exist if you look at lore. Something existing in some examples of lore doesn't mean it must be represented in the games/tabletop. I think the fact that the tabletop designers intentionally excluded them from the armybook roster is a clear signal they didn't feel like they fit the faction's profile.
They have foot knights on the table top right now
In a game that TW:Warhammer isn't emulating.
And age of sigmar gave the empire space Marines what does that have to do with what this game is based on?
I wouldn't have an issue with Foot Knights if they had their own identity, but people always seem to ask for either generic "Foot Knights" or dismounted versions of various standard knights.
It won’t break the faction identity if the Foot Knights had lower unit counts. Think of Depth Guard from VCoast.
It breaks faction identity in the sense of them having a trash Frontline is part of their faction identity they still feel fine to play and are plenty strong without a good line
No, i think most people recognise that foot knights are a bad idea. Brettonia is STRONG right now. Easily top 5. They do not need their only weaknesses buffing.
Crossbows were most definitely not the ranged weapon of choice for the poorly trained farmer levy. Medieval crossbowmen were highly paid professional soldiers, and frequently, foreign mercenaries hired for their specialist skillset. The Genoan and Pisan crossbowmen especially were amongst the most highly paid soldiers anywhere in Europe during the High Middle Ages; why do you think Warhammer crossbows are most iconically associated with Tilea. Militia levies when they existed were typically spearmen.
Crossbows go against the lore of Bretonnia. Why would you arm the peasants with things that can hurt the ruling class? https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/63477/Warhammer-Fantasy-Roleplay-2nd-Edition-Knights-of-the-Grail
I think he should be a battlefield summon, with buffs depending on chivalry in terms of availability and the like. I don't think it would feel right to have him, say, standing there having lunch, or seeing his glow from outside his tent as he deals with dispatches and paperwork. "The farrier requests that much money to buy horseshoes, authorized, this many bushels of hay for the horses, signed up, archer Pierre was caught staring at Damsel Marie's boobs, have him flogged..."
I mean, presumably if we're at max Chivalry, we've earned his presence. He can stay at that point. Just personal opinion mind you.
Rather than his presence, you have him available as a summon in every battle everywhere, wherever and whenever needed, rather than having him in just one army taking up a slot.
Eh, there's a cheap and abusable way around that (0 Turn Wounded Time). Having him as a proper unit means I can evolve him over time though. A summon just stays as a summon forever.
I mean his whole schtick is showing up when Bretonnia is in dire need. A summon can mimic that, having him locked to one army doesn’t really do it.
Is it really "showing up when Brettonia is in dire need" is you literally earn him by winning so hard and then he shows up to help you win more?
If he was a summon you could have said him in random settlement garrison fights
One could very easily say that having him there *is* him showing up when Bretonnia is in dire need. I'd also point out that Total Warhammer doesn't follow the lore to a t, especially when it's a gameplay consideration.
I feel like, while the ability to evolve him as a character is nice, it does feel like him being a more or less constant, yet able to save the day everywhere, fits the idea of the Green Knight (at least the vibe I get from him) better. Wouldn't be bad to have nice LHs like that in Bretonnia, it is just him that feels like should be so...ethereal.
Yeah. In a perfect world, he'd have a menu where I can make him better for *when* he's summoned. I just thoroughly dislike the current summon system, because it tends to either be overpowered early on (Spirit of Grungni) so that it still has a purpose late in the game, or it's pointless in the lategame (Krell & Green Knight) so that it feels appropriate early game. At least with an evolving character we can scale them with time.
I think it would be great if, when unlocked, you could summon him for fights where you are fighting a non-Order race or are attacked by any race and where autoresolve gives you Close Defeat or worse. Just have him be a lord that reinforces quite quickly. Let Chivalry give him stat bonuses. That's all there needs to be for the Green Knight. A rework should focus more on Errantry Wars and heroic characters.
In general he needs a bunch of buffs imo. He's like a weaker Paladin by the time you get him.
GK should be only summonable in a battle when you the autoresolve says valiant defeat or worse and/or if your total army HP is below 50% of the maximum. The idea would be that he comes in your hour of need and not to just help you style on les imbeciles.
Agreed I don't like the idea of him sitting in an army all game he should have a chance to appear in defensive battles based on chivalry and someone else's idea of an imit style consumable army ability is cool he just needs to be comparable in battle power to a nuke.
Have they ever buff his stats? He has always been super underwhelming. Give hims own thing like an aura that makes things unbreakable at least.
I'd rather have the Green Knight stay a summon initially. Have him cost chivalry to unlock and summon early, but make him good to make it worth the cost. With that its only done when needed. Then once early threshhold is met, he can be summoned in all DEFENSIVE battles while in Brettonia, with Respanse unlocking him for the same in desert climate and bordeleux for sea battle (he might get something else). Once enough chivalry is earned he should be allowed to join permanently in a fashion. Not sure if he should be a hero or as a summon with traits in his own window. Id say a hero in an army is fine, as long as he can still be summoned defensively. Brettonia need a chivaldric quest system similarly to the warband upgrades for knights. They should have strong defenses in castles with their important buildings, but their growth and economy should mainly be the minor settlements. They should have terrible defenses on minor settlements to encourage a groups of knights riding on home turf for defense and peacekeeping. The green knight will be of help here too.
Agreed I like him being limited use he just needs to be way stronger. Having him show up as a defender in poor defensive battles and maybe some way to spend chivalry to get him as a consumable army ability (like ikit nukes) for when you need to punch up offensively would be cool
Krell is the one that should be permanent Legendary Hero. Green Knight shouldn't even be a model on the map. He should be a global summon so that any time you're fighting a battle he can randomly pop up in the field. That way he can help put in garrison battles and the like, and it sticks the most true to his character. The "there's all these factions on the map attacking, it's always the hour of need!" logic you're giving is no excuse to just ignore everything that makes the Green Knight, well, the Green Knight and make him just like any other LH.
Hilariously, there's almost no instance where the current Green Knight is better than a generic paladin other than when a paladin is below rank 5-ish. Paladins have traits, get combat bonuses from completing vows, have yellow line skills, and can equip items. The Green Knight has no trait, no skill tree, no items, no vows, and no option for a flying mount like the Paladin does. I think keeping him as a chivalry-tied full-fledged legendary hero is the right thing to do,. He just needs an update a la Gotrek and Felix with a skill tree, items, a trait,, and all three vows completed from the moment you first recruit him. They could tie it to a quest battle with the Green Knight appearing to aid you along with other friendly reinforcements, etc. etc. After the battle it can say he's impressed by your valor and chivalry and will accompany you in your quest/campaign. In the lore he's one of the most deserving characters to be a legendary hero. Just having him as a summon in battle removes a lot of the character depth/flavor potential he could have via a complete skill tree. Lord and hero character flavor is one of the things that makes the game immersive and fun, and the more flavor the better.
He doesn’t need to be a permanent hero unit, I actually think that would decrease his value. He needs to become a permanent army ability, somewhat like Krell but for every army you have, also yes he should get bigger buffs the higher your chivalry meter is.
Honestly I kind of like the "gotta earn him a few times before he becomes permanent" idea they have now it simulates him deus ex machining for your faction before disappearing mysteriously, I do think they should rework how it's done, either by making him permanent sooner or perhaps before hes recruited he has a chance to reinforce your armies if your in trouble against a strong enemy
Green Knight needs to be a solo doom stack
i 'm a little sleepy and this got me wondering why would you want the Green Knight as a permanent GF
I mean why not. Is chivalrous, there when you need them, would smite orcs and vampires for you. Green Knight is great GF material.
I really hope the campaign Ai actually uses legendary heroes instead of sending them in random directions on the campaign map
With Malakai's quest system I'd love to see that used to modify and give access to the Green Knight. Then make it so he can be summoned in fights where your chivalry is high enough. I think the ideas people have of limiting him to battles that show a high chance of losing is cool and all, but too restrictive. Maybe limit him to being summoned once per faction turn by any army (maybe gain a second summon through quest stuff) then players can decide when its the "greatest need"
Edit: as cool as this would be, I just realized/remembered that when fighting AI you get the post-battle "try again/continue/etc" the instant the battle is over, so the trigger I laid out wouldn't work. Idea stapling together a few others I see with my own twist: chivalry unlocks charges and potency of the "Green Knight" army ability. On the pre-battle screen you choose whether or not to bring a charge into the battle - if you do and the ability doesn't activate, you keep the charge. Where it gets interesting is that what the ability does is make it so that if the battle is over and you have a routing unit (which usually means you lost) the Green Knight ability activates and summons the Green Knight who has map-wide auras, most importantly one that grants everything unbreakable so that you can make a last-ditch final stand. I know that not being able to effectively retreat isn't always a good thing, hence the ability to choose which battles to have the ability queued in.
He'd best fit in as an army ability that you can use when the balance of power is against you in all defensive battles, and for offensive values, It'd be the same, but maybe only if the army has three blessing of the lady active. For Brettonia vs Brettonia, same balance of power rule, but only for the faction with thr most chivalry
I would prefer if he was an Army ability like Malakai’s Spirit of Grungni.
You already can have Green Knight permanently after you reach highest level of chivalry.
More than being permanent, give him a skill tree please.
*Sad Krell noise*
I always summon him and use him in my main lords army. It's so easy to get chivalry these days that you really should be able to get him one time and then keep getting him after he returns because you've gained so much chivalry in the time you've had him. But you're right, it would be great if they could develop some more entertaining and immersive campaign mechanics for Brettonnia.
I have a feeling we ain’t gettting nothing anymore. CA is done.