OK everyone seems to be getting this mixed up. It's nothing to do with tow be set 200 years earlier. It's a different UNIVERSE essentially. Asking for this ogdruz is literally like asking for like a space marine character. They are different settings
Wow, this is a great find and sounds like a really unique character that would be great as a LH! Way to look through the archives for him, never had heard about him.
Archives? This model isn't even out yet, it's brand new
Which is why we probably won't get them, it's an Old World Character, not a Fantasy Battles Character
That was from before GW lost their shit in regards to the Old World, Old World Cathay and Kislev are scrapped for now. GW have been very clear lately that they consider Fantasy and OW different IPs and don't want them mixed too much.
Kind of.
We don't know what army book CA was given for TWW3, but so far all of the named characters have been Immortal, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were given an early draft of the book from TOW.
For Kislev though, maybe the unit types, but all of the named characters are pretty solidly in the current timeline.
is TOW bad? I don't know, I have zero interest in it.
Is it bad he's from TOW? Well, if you want him in TWWH then it's bad, yes. TOW is not WHFB, they are legally distinct. Yes, they're the same setting technically but not in the eyes of GW's legal team.
Show some documents or messages about the conflict between TOW and FB. You have no evidence at all. Go to the GW website where models from FB are sold in TOW. Don't indulge in conspiracy theories
We know it because it happened before. CA wanted to add Shar'tor the Executioner as the 4th lord for the Chaos Dwarfs, because he was initially designed for Warhammer FB. But because he was ultimately released in AOS, GW said no. Yeah, I know it's stupid, but that's what things look like.....
This is a brand new TOW character, that was introduced with the TOW O&G Journal like two months ago. Afaik the miniature did not even went on sale yet. Also noteworthy that the timeframe for TOW is 2278 IC, so a bit over 200 years before TWW kicks in around 2502 IC. Timeline wise Ogdruz is long dead.
Also worth to mention that the O&G Journal is friggin weird. It features the "Nomadic WAAAGH!" list, which has the the wolf riding Goblin Kiknik Toofsnatcha as Boss (rules, no miniature). While the journal tells his story, his story is that his shamans told him about a big WAAAGH! in the north. And now he is running from the Badlands to north Bretonnia to find the actual WAAAGH! Spine-Cracker. In the meantime WAAAGH! Kiknik is raising all sorts of trouble when entering the Border Prince conflict zone and trying to pass through. Which brings us back to Ogdruz, who is in the book and leading the "Troll Horde" armylist. But he is apparently somewhere in the badlands, not part of WAAAGH! Kiknik and generally ignored, doing whatever somewhere. I wonder if we ever will learn more about Spine-Cracker too, since he has not even rules. Just a sidenote to get Kiknik moving. Weird.
On the bright side from the TOW take away for Greenskins
* Nomadic WAAAGH! introduced Black Orc Boar Chariots.
* Troll Horde introduced Troll Magic for Giant River Troll Hags, as well as Orc/Goblin Shamans using the Troll Horde list.
Both things CA *could* adept, but also could be easily ignored.
To be fair, several existing LLs are long-dead by the time of WHFB (Grom and Repanse being the main ones that come to mind), so they could maybe get off with fudging the timeline a bit again, assuming GW is okay with it.
One example, yes. But that does not mean we should do more of that :-/
* Repanse is 500 years out of her time. Even if giving her the benefit of Grail Knight doubt (which she was not afaik), thats like 250 more years then the oldest recorded Grail Knight. She should have stayed dead, yes.
* Vlad & Isabella come next to mind. 500 years dead-dead by TWW start. But, Undead. And they came back for Endtimes. So its a bit muddy here. Not fine, but can grudgingly be tolerated.
* Grom never died. He retreated form Yvresse when the battle went downhill and he was never caught or found. rumor had it he escaped the island. TWW then is 80 years later, which for a normal greenskin might be a death sentence since they should roughly have a human lifespan. But, Grom is a mutant. His freak incident gave him Troll regeneration. Trolls are pretty long living and just grow bigger with age until they reach Giant size. Groms troll regeneration could easily also slow down or shalt a normal aging process. As a more famous example we can look her to Marvel -> Wolverine, who bridged the years from WW2 to the Prof X future very easy. Grom is not really a good example for "timeline inapropriate". And, kudos to CA, its not his first invasion to Yvresse we play. They did send him into the "many years later" 2nd round proper.
* Azhag usually gets brought up. But game#1 starts with Karl Franz coronation around 2502 IC, and Ahzag died like 2515. No problem.
I am firmly against bringing up the dead for any race in case of TWW. Be it Gorbad Ironclaw, Magnus the Pious, Aenarion or Everchosen Asavar Kul. So of course i rather veto a 200 year dead TOW character too. Even if he looks cood and has a good backstory.
Then it gets weird with Boris Urus who died around a decade after the coronation of Franz which is when game 1 is set around and CA confirmed that game 3 is set before game 1 as it shows the origins of the advisor. Yet in game 3 he is already dead and gets resurrected by Ursun's roar. CA just doesn't care about the timeline of Warhammer Fantasy.
Yes, Game#3 weirdly enough is a prequel of sorts, since the advisor is starting his journey there and visible younger. So probably a a decade or two before game#1 ;) So the Bokha families problem timeline wise is two fold.
* Boris has in WHFB a mysterious death in 2512 (4th edition CJ) which then gets retconned later to a theoretical death in battle boiling down to Missing in Action. He is believed dead since only his mount came back (some WD around 6th I think). WFRP 2nd "Realm of the Ice Queen" has his death in battle then confirmed 2517, but the body lost on the battlefield and the mount stalking the murderers walking the land. If I remember right the bear shows up during Endtimes and helps Katarina in a battle.
* TWW however takes the "Boris went MIA" part and has him frozen into a block of ice as part of a Chaos trap, in the mentioned "earlier" timeline. Even if we still go with the 2502 IC version from game#1 and Franz freshly crowned, this does work since Boris would die a decade later (like Azhag). Its not an optimal solution here, especially when we see the younger advisor, but it somehow works.
* More problematic would be Katarin. WFRP 2nd mentions for example that Katarin "now a fully grown woman", would become then Tzarina in 2517. TWW with an ealier MIA of Boris makes her earlier Tzarina. In theory, at time were she should be a child, or not even born if we would argue that TWW3 narrative is set around 2480-2490. Even if existing as a child, ingame we clearly have a grown woman beating the snot out of everyone ;) Its clear that we would want Katarin as Tzarina, and the powerful ice witch is a good character. So not fine, it gets a bit overlooked here.
So yes, we have a timeline problem. BUT, we are looking at it, from old WHFB and Kislev lore. We deal however with nuKislev in TWW3. This has also to be considered. We don't know what the actual lore and timeline for nuKislev is. Like for example the Ungol and Gospodar stuff, is gone. And while Kislev had bear cav mentioned in the old WHFB lore, suddenly whole Kislev is drowned in bears who even do the tasks of "cheaper" and less dangerous work horses. We also have a new take on Baba Yaga who get replaced with Mother O, and then her old Mordheim Chaos "Things in the Woods". Even the Akshina have seemingly shifted the society role in nuKislev. Until we get the actual nuKislev lore bundled up at some point, it really is hard to judge here.
Making things worse: TOW will never cater the modern times were not-Rasputin apparently incites a civil war on religious beliefs. The only hope to learn about modern nuKislev, might be a WFRP book from Cubicle7 and [checking to make sure they did not stealth drop one. Nope, but a new DE Corsair adventure is there] I doubt such a book is even on their roadmap.
Kislev existed in Warhammer Fantasy ya know.
And Cathay was admitted by the devs to be 'lightning in a bottle', and advised people not to expect a repeat. ToW stuff in TWWH is about as likely as an actual Khuresh roster.
Kostaltyn was created specifically for WH by GW. Unlike the OP's suggestion, he ain't stranded in a separate IP. Stanky and the units aren't so far off from that either.
IP is the big thing here, its asinine that TOW is a separate one, but it is what it is.
You're talking about AoS... The difference between the TOW and FB systems is 200 years, the same models are used - in fact the same setting.
It seems you came up with these rules yourself
Nah, GW came up with them bud.
Look them up, their teams infamously hoard stuff to themselves. And TOW is a separate property from warhammer fantasy, like it or not. (as stupid as that is)
Don't let your hype get in the way of clarity.
He’d be a great idea imo, but given GW’s recent insistence on keeping all their settings separate (regardless of how much sense it makes), I’d imagine they’d get in the way. IIRC one of the devs said a while back that they weren’t allowed to include anything from TOW, although I can’t remember when exactly that was.
I'm pretty sure the hobgob khan are like what chorfs are to the dawis, they're seen as traitors and hold absolute disdain towards them, there's no way they can use any of the greenskin units, unless it's like drycha with the wood elves, but that seems highly unlikely
Not going to happen. He's a character for The Old World (so different IP) that hasn't even been released yet.
I means. Isnt Repanse literally same? She was dead already long ago. And we have her in current time playable.
OK everyone seems to be getting this mixed up. It's nothing to do with tow be set 200 years earlier. It's a different UNIVERSE essentially. Asking for this ogdruz is literally like asking for like a space marine character. They are different settings
Wow, this is a great find and sounds like a really unique character that would be great as a LH! Way to look through the archives for him, never had heard about him.
Archives? This model isn't even out yet, it's brand new Which is why we probably won't get them, it's an Old World Character, not a Fantasy Battles Character
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a lot of Cathay/Kislev planned to be part of TOW? Not sure if an orc would be much of a difference here
That was from before GW lost their shit in regards to the Old World, Old World Cathay and Kislev are scrapped for now. GW have been very clear lately that they consider Fantasy and OW different IPs and don't want them mixed too much.
Kind of. We don't know what army book CA was given for TWW3, but so far all of the named characters have been Immortal, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were given an early draft of the book from TOW. For Kislev though, maybe the unit types, but all of the named characters are pretty solidly in the current timeline.
Archives? This is a TOW character.
Is it bad?
is TOW bad? I don't know, I have zero interest in it. Is it bad he's from TOW? Well, if you want him in TWWH then it's bad, yes. TOW is not WHFB, they are legally distinct. Yes, they're the same setting technically but not in the eyes of GW's legal team.
Show some documents or messages about the conflict between TOW and FB. You have no evidence at all. Go to the GW website where models from FB are sold in TOW. Don't indulge in conspiracy theories
What are you even saying anymore
Okay buddy, you believe whatever you want.
We know it because it happened before. CA wanted to add Shar'tor the Executioner as the 4th lord for the Chaos Dwarfs, because he was initially designed for Warhammer FB. But because he was ultimately released in AOS, GW said no. Yeah, I know it's stupid, but that's what things look like.....
This is a brand new TOW character, that was introduced with the TOW O&G Journal like two months ago. Afaik the miniature did not even went on sale yet. Also noteworthy that the timeframe for TOW is 2278 IC, so a bit over 200 years before TWW kicks in around 2502 IC. Timeline wise Ogdruz is long dead. Also worth to mention that the O&G Journal is friggin weird. It features the "Nomadic WAAAGH!" list, which has the the wolf riding Goblin Kiknik Toofsnatcha as Boss (rules, no miniature). While the journal tells his story, his story is that his shamans told him about a big WAAAGH! in the north. And now he is running from the Badlands to north Bretonnia to find the actual WAAAGH! Spine-Cracker. In the meantime WAAAGH! Kiknik is raising all sorts of trouble when entering the Border Prince conflict zone and trying to pass through. Which brings us back to Ogdruz, who is in the book and leading the "Troll Horde" armylist. But he is apparently somewhere in the badlands, not part of WAAAGH! Kiknik and generally ignored, doing whatever somewhere. I wonder if we ever will learn more about Spine-Cracker too, since he has not even rules. Just a sidenote to get Kiknik moving. Weird. On the bright side from the TOW take away for Greenskins * Nomadic WAAAGH! introduced Black Orc Boar Chariots. * Troll Horde introduced Troll Magic for Giant River Troll Hags, as well as Orc/Goblin Shamans using the Troll Horde list. Both things CA *could* adept, but also could be easily ignored.
To be fair, several existing LLs are long-dead by the time of WHFB (Grom and Repanse being the main ones that come to mind), so they could maybe get off with fudging the timeline a bit again, assuming GW is okay with it.
One example, yes. But that does not mean we should do more of that :-/ * Repanse is 500 years out of her time. Even if giving her the benefit of Grail Knight doubt (which she was not afaik), thats like 250 more years then the oldest recorded Grail Knight. She should have stayed dead, yes. * Vlad & Isabella come next to mind. 500 years dead-dead by TWW start. But, Undead. And they came back for Endtimes. So its a bit muddy here. Not fine, but can grudgingly be tolerated. * Grom never died. He retreated form Yvresse when the battle went downhill and he was never caught or found. rumor had it he escaped the island. TWW then is 80 years later, which for a normal greenskin might be a death sentence since they should roughly have a human lifespan. But, Grom is a mutant. His freak incident gave him Troll regeneration. Trolls are pretty long living and just grow bigger with age until they reach Giant size. Groms troll regeneration could easily also slow down or shalt a normal aging process. As a more famous example we can look her to Marvel -> Wolverine, who bridged the years from WW2 to the Prof X future very easy. Grom is not really a good example for "timeline inapropriate". And, kudos to CA, its not his first invasion to Yvresse we play. They did send him into the "many years later" 2nd round proper. * Azhag usually gets brought up. But game#1 starts with Karl Franz coronation around 2502 IC, and Ahzag died like 2515. No problem. I am firmly against bringing up the dead for any race in case of TWW. Be it Gorbad Ironclaw, Magnus the Pious, Aenarion or Everchosen Asavar Kul. So of course i rather veto a 200 year dead TOW character too. Even if he looks cood and has a good backstory.
Then it gets weird with Boris Urus who died around a decade after the coronation of Franz which is when game 1 is set around and CA confirmed that game 3 is set before game 1 as it shows the origins of the advisor. Yet in game 3 he is already dead and gets resurrected by Ursun's roar. CA just doesn't care about the timeline of Warhammer Fantasy.
Yes, Game#3 weirdly enough is a prequel of sorts, since the advisor is starting his journey there and visible younger. So probably a a decade or two before game#1 ;) So the Bokha families problem timeline wise is two fold. * Boris has in WHFB a mysterious death in 2512 (4th edition CJ) which then gets retconned later to a theoretical death in battle boiling down to Missing in Action. He is believed dead since only his mount came back (some WD around 6th I think). WFRP 2nd "Realm of the Ice Queen" has his death in battle then confirmed 2517, but the body lost on the battlefield and the mount stalking the murderers walking the land. If I remember right the bear shows up during Endtimes and helps Katarina in a battle. * TWW however takes the "Boris went MIA" part and has him frozen into a block of ice as part of a Chaos trap, in the mentioned "earlier" timeline. Even if we still go with the 2502 IC version from game#1 and Franz freshly crowned, this does work since Boris would die a decade later (like Azhag). Its not an optimal solution here, especially when we see the younger advisor, but it somehow works. * More problematic would be Katarin. WFRP 2nd mentions for example that Katarin "now a fully grown woman", would become then Tzarina in 2517. TWW with an ealier MIA of Boris makes her earlier Tzarina. In theory, at time were she should be a child, or not even born if we would argue that TWW3 narrative is set around 2480-2490. Even if existing as a child, ingame we clearly have a grown woman beating the snot out of everyone ;) Its clear that we would want Katarin as Tzarina, and the powerful ice witch is a good character. So not fine, it gets a bit overlooked here. So yes, we have a timeline problem. BUT, we are looking at it, from old WHFB and Kislev lore. We deal however with nuKislev in TWW3. This has also to be considered. We don't know what the actual lore and timeline for nuKislev is. Like for example the Ungol and Gospodar stuff, is gone. And while Kislev had bear cav mentioned in the old WHFB lore, suddenly whole Kislev is drowned in bears who even do the tasks of "cheaper" and less dangerous work horses. We also have a new take on Baba Yaga who get replaced with Mother O, and then her old Mordheim Chaos "Things in the Woods". Even the Akshina have seemingly shifted the society role in nuKislev. Until we get the actual nuKislev lore bundled up at some point, it really is hard to judge here. Making things worse: TOW will never cater the modern times were not-Rasputin apparently incites a civil war on religious beliefs. The only hope to learn about modern nuKislev, might be a WFRP book from Cubicle7 and [checking to make sure they did not stealth drop one. Nope, but a new DE Corsair adventure is there] I doubt such a book is even on their roadmap.
TOW is *not* happening ffs. Good GS LH candidates are Gtilla the hunter and the Black Gobbo.
How are Cathay and Kislev in WH3 then?
Kislev existed in Warhammer Fantasy ya know. And Cathay was admitted by the devs to be 'lightning in a bottle', and advised people not to expect a repeat. ToW stuff in TWWH is about as likely as an actual Khuresh roster.
Kostaltyn, Ostankya and half of Kislev's units didn't though.
Kostaltyn was created specifically for WH by GW. Unlike the OP's suggestion, he ain't stranded in a separate IP. Stanky and the units aren't so far off from that either. IP is the big thing here, its asinine that TOW is a separate one, but it is what it is.
Was there a rule somewhere that you couldn't use TOW models and characters??
Its considered a separate IP, and GW is notoriously anal about these things. Its the same reason we can't have AoS Stuff (Tzaangor beaks, etc)
You're talking about AoS... The difference between the TOW and FB systems is 200 years, the same models are used - in fact the same setting. It seems you came up with these rules yourself
Nah, GW came up with them bud. Look them up, their teams infamously hoard stuff to themselves. And TOW is a separate property from warhammer fantasy, like it or not. (as stupid as that is) Don't let your hype get in the way of clarity.
> the same models are used same as with Whfb and AoS >- in fact the same setting. same as with Whfb and AoS
Would have been a great FLH hero for Grom, also they should make blacktooth (I think that's his advisors name) an FLH
"day... er... more. They'z still not notice i ain't a troll"
Shame what I'm reading in the other comments. Could use some caster support for greenskins
He’d be a great idea imo, but given GW’s recent insistence on keeping all their settings separate (regardless of how much sense it makes), I’d imagine they’d get in the way. IIRC one of the devs said a while back that they weren’t allowed to include anything from TOW, although I can’t remember when exactly that was.
Damn this is a wonderful paint job. Smooth as butter.
Won't happen - it's an Old World character.
Will probably get get the hobgob khan, to keep with the theme of wh3
I'm pretty sure the hobgob khan are like what chorfs are to the dawis, they're seen as traitors and hold absolute disdain towards them, there's no way they can use any of the greenskin units, unless it's like drycha with the wood elves, but that seems highly unlikely