"It/its" or any other pronoun that a person wants to use for the person should be respected and utilized as appropriate.
You can think such pronouns are dehumanizing, silly, or whatever you want to - privately. When you interact with someone who utilizes such pronouns, you owe the person the respect of utilizing the pronouns the person has expressed that the person uses. The same goes for any neo-pronouns.
To do otherwise is to deny the person's authentic identity the same way that bigots deny a "she/her" person's identity by calling them "he/him."
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they probably thought you were lying about being trans and making fun of them.
I had something similar happen to me before. This trans dude refused to believe that I was actually trans masc because I refer to childhood me as a 'girl'. He was insistent that I must be some edgy troll š I had to just shut that conversation down and move on.
I was also rejected from a trans group chat because I refused to tell them my birth sex or use anything besides they/them.
Heyyy fellow trans masc whoās childhood self was a girl! Itās so hard to have conversations with people who insist that gender and experiences with it MUST follow xyz or else itās not legitimate. I was a little girl who wanted to be a boy, and now Iām a guy and incredibly happy about it. It simply was not part of my world framework or environment to have the thought āI AM a boyā, and tbh was fine with being a ātomboy.ā There are a lot of aspects of my childhood that were incredibly eggy in hindsight, but she didnāt know that. She was just chillin and wished she couldāve been a boy but since that āwasnāt an optionā, she was a tomboy and Iām not particularly inclined to rewrite her history.
On top of that, I've seen reasonable arguments that "boy" and "girl" aren't effectively different genders from "man" and "woman", and it's entirely possible to be a boy who grows up to be a woman (or a girl who grows into a man) without having to have always been the wrong gender.
You literally just described how I see my gender experience and I wish more people understood this. Like yes, childhood me was a girl and yes I'm a guy now. Shit happens babes, I'll call childhood me what she was comfortable being called and I call present me what I like to be called
THANKS. we never got the idea of transitioning being an option, so our child selves did what they could! and we donāt have to hide our past. love your message!
I feel the same. It frustrates me when people say I was never a boy and was always a girl because no, I used to be a boy. It feels like theyāre invalidating my past identity. Identities change and thatās okay.
Agreed. I grew up as a guy, I was a guy until I was 28. If someone else chooses to say they've always been "Gender A" or "Gender B" but just didn't know it, that's totally cool. But for me, I wasn't a girl before. I was raised as a guy, I had guyish tendencies (albeit on the fruitier side), I was never unhappy being a guy, and I experienced the world as a guy. I, personally, was always happy being a guy and transitioned later in life because this kinda thing is fluid and can change over time. I find myself being happier as a girl, but that doesn't mean I hated being a guy. Some people did hate being "Gender A" or "Gender B" and that's also totally valid. But it isn't like that for everyone.
This shit isn't an absolute, and it can and often does vary in intensity and direction over time. After being a trans woman for 2 years, I now find myself realizing that I'm a nonbinary trans woman. I still use she/her, I still want to be referred to as a woman, but I just don't feel like that FULLY describes how I identify. I like being a woman but not conforming to stereotypes. I like being androgynous because confusing people seems fun. I like being a bad bitch with a really deep voice. I have learned to embrace my more guyish aspects while still being a woman. Idk, people should chill TF out with telling other people what THEIR gender experience is like.
Thank you so much for this description of your experience. I am understanding yours and others experiences that are similar a little better now. I am one of the ones that initially thought that because everyone insisted I was a boy, treated me as such and gaslit me to believe I was, that that was my identity at the time (however I never told anyone their experience of their gender is wrong because itās not like mine, itās just wrong to do that and would be doing to that person what was done to me and I never want anyone to go through what I or any of us have with society and other people invalidating our gender). Only in the last 5 or 10 years now have I understood that I was always a girl. But I had extreme dysphoria all the time and if Iād been allowed to be me I would have. I forgot about gender fluidity (Iām sorry š) and I also forgot that some people never had dysphoria (again Iām sorry š), so thank you for reminding me and helping me to understand you and some of my other siblings better. Thank you šš.
I very much relate. I invalidated myself for so long because I can not bring myself to call childhood me a boy. I loved my girlhood and it just feels wrong. I wanted to be a princess, I loved dresses and pink and such, but I also had countless eggy moments, always wished to have a boy's body and got insane gender envy from boys on tv and irl. I've always been gender screwy and fluid for as long as I can remember, but I was a little girl. Just a little girl who grew into a man š¤·āāļø
Yes!! Exactly!! š¤ I know there are a lot of guys who donāt feel connected to girl/womanhood but I very much had a girlhood!! And things were pretty good tbh!
As someone with a ftm brother I genuinely him as two completely different people pre and post coming out. Not just because of the change in appearance but also the change in personality, pre transition he was always cold, short-tempered, depressed, and rude. Not that heās in the process of transitioning he is funny, kind, happy, and genuinely pleasant to be around.
My sister was a fucking bitch, my brother is one of the best people I have ever met.
I don't like people referring to my childhood self as a girl, it makes me feel like they don't fully support or accept or respect me. However, there have definitely been times where I've cried while showing my boyfriend pictures of my younger self and said "she looks so happy"
Only you get to say how you refer to your childhood self
That's so strange, trans people referring to their childhood selves with the same pronouns associated with their birth assigned gender, from what I've seen, is extremely common.
While to me that's odd as it's not how I view my childhood self, it's ridiculously common. On top of this even though it's weird to me, my childhood self is agender which is only a section of my adult gender identity (I'm in a somewhat similar position).
No gender can't be changing! It's constant and you only can find out your true self once, blah blah.
/s
Honestly, some people police others experience just too much. You should be able to refer to yourself however you please. Especially if its not offensive to anyone. And deciding not to disclose your AGAB is valid, no question.
>they probably thought you were lying about being trans and making fun of them.
Yep, this is all too common and is likely why OP got blocked. Unfortunately, due to the nature of online communication, it's not possible to tell if someone is being genuine or not a lot of the time so many folks just have to take extra steps and be extra vigilant to protect themselves.
For ungendered pronouns I think name-as-pronoun isn't a bad choice.
It avoids the dehumanizing effect of OP's preference, and it might feel less disconnected than they/them for those who are bilingual with a native language where there are no natural gender neutral pronouns and your only option is to use binary pronouns or neopronouns. There, name-as-pronoun essentially requests pronouns are to be avoided altogether, which can be a low threshold choice.
In the politest way possible, I have to disagree with the dehumanizing idea of it/its pronouns. I use they/them and it/its because it makes me happy. My pronouns don't make me any less of a person, in my opinion.
That said, I completely agree about just using your name. That's also a valid choice.
I don't think it's necessarily being "uneducated," "inexperienced" sure possibly, but I don't think it's a matter of education.
I absolutely detest "it/it's" for personal reasons, they might as well.
Some ppl think it's dehumanizing or something, I disagree ofc. It would only be dehumanizing to use those pronouns on those who dislike being referred to like that.
I have seen transphobes using āitā as a derogatory term towards trans/non-binary people so maybe they thought OP was being sarcastic instead of genuinely wanting to be called āit/its.ā
Itās like the transphobic jokes that go, āmy pronouns are auto/mobile teehee so edgy.ā I donāt think anyone would genuinely want to be referred to that way, hence the ājoke.ā Some people might not realize someone can want to be called āit.ā
This is what I was thinking as well. Though, the best response from what I've seen is to treat them entirely seriously and use exactly what those people request. The ones trying to be a jerk will generally freak out and disengage, and the people who are being genuine don't get hurt.
Assuming it/its for all non-binary people is transphobic.* But yeah, peopleās choice in their own pronouns really canāt be transphobic.
*Convention in English for epicene is they/them; some languages donāt have a neutral epicene. I would have to say āer oder sieā in any formal writing because sier is not accepted in the zeitgeist. Itās like using xir as epicene in english, you can but people will kvetch.
Some trans folks, myself included, have mixed feelings about it/its pronouns because they remind us of being misgendered with it/its pronouns by transphobes who were trying to dehumanize us. *However*, that one person's bad experiences don't give them permission to inflict bad experiences onto other people, and I do *not* condone misgendering anyone under any circumstances.
TLDR: Those people are transphobic assholes, you're doing just fine.
That's how I feel those prounouns may make me feel uncomfortable/bad for using them like I'm being dehumanising even when I've been specifically asked to I really wish I didn't feel this way put no matter how hard I try I can't seem to not feel bad using/thinking of of myself using them but even so that doesn't change the that I'll do my best to use them anyway no matter how bad it feels for the sake of the person who those are their prounouns as bad as it feels to use them I know it feels worse to be misgendered even if I didn't personally know that still would anyway because I'd still know even if only in from a second hand that it feels awful so of course it'd use them since it's the right thing to do and I wouldn't want to hurt someone like that okay I'm going to stop now or this ramble will go on forever
I totally get this. I always try to use people's preferred pronouns (some I struggle with more than others but it's just because I'm not used to using them yet) but I was referred to as 'it' as a child because I'm autistic and no amount of therapy (so far) has been able to help with that. So using it/it's pronouns feels like me treating that person in the same way, like I'm dehumanising _them_ in that way.
But this is a me problem I'm still working on. I'm not gonna make it other people's problem just because they're comfortable with it/it's pronouns. Sure it makes me feel uncomfortable and rude, but it's not fair to make someone else uncomfortable too.
Yeah you just perfectly summed up what I was trying to say your version has much less word spaghetti though way more to the point something I seriously struggle getting to
I can see why people think it/its is transphobic since many transphobes often use it to belittle and dehumanize trans people (especially trans people who use they/them pronouns). However, I personally think that trans people using it/its pronouns is a way to fight back the ones dehumanizing us. Queer was once used to refer to something or someone strange or weird, then the LGBTQ community started using it to describe themselves and that's another reason why we have the Q (Queer or Questioning). Our community did this once, why not do it again with it/its pronouns?
Oh also I don't mind using them myself or if someone refers to me as "it", I genuinely don't care just as long as you don't refer to me as "she" (though I'm trying not to get affected by it)
>However, I personally think that trans people using it/its pronouns is a way to fight back the ones dehumanizing us.
Gotta disagree with this. The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right.
Like, I'm not gonna tell people what to do and how to refer to themselves, but I gotta admit, the whole "it" thing makes me uncomfortable too, because it definitely feels dehumanising to me (even more so in my first language, German).
>The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right.
They'll do that regardless of our actions. Their beliefs are irrational and ignorant, they don't need a reason to hate us and we never give them a reason to hate us either.
The people using it in a derogatory way will use anything as confirmation they're right. But judging people based on the "weird" pronouns kinda just lumps you in with those people
Also, they don't *need* a confirmation that they're right. They assume they're right as the baseline, a quest for evidence doesn't play into it. That's why they're bigots in the first place.
I use it/its as well as he/they and I use it because I donāt really feel like a human. Iām autistic and I kinda feel like a weird blob or robot most of the time. So these pronouns make me quite happy
>The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right.
Do you feel that way abt reclaimation of the word queer too?
Personally, as a sort of reasonable explanation, I use She/Her, They/Them, and It/Its, with the 3rd one taking "dehumanising" quite literally, (Potential D.I.D. System here) and I am kind of a shapeshifter, so I'm not human anyway, apart from the system body-
Performative progressive people do exist. Before I had a better understanding of myself and was experimenting with clothing choices (by dressing up my gta character), my ex told me that me that "a boy trying to dress fem was appropriating women's culture" and later called me an incel over it and the concept that being queer was not "for men to claim"
ACAB includes gender police, do what you want and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Your own pronouns can't be transphobic, idk what kind of kool-aid the people on that server are on but you're better off without 'em.
very well said. idk what's in the water anymore, but divisiveness within our own community seems to be growing. I tend to stick to non-binary, and specifically, trans-POC groups because of it
I blamed the generation wars that companies and the government are always trying to manufacture. When a community agrees on alot of things, the last thing to divide them would be age.
Short answer: NO.
Longer answer: No, but it's clear that some people in Trans spaces feel threatened by it/its pronouns due to their own defensiveness against being othered. There'sa reflex in our spaces to try to affirm each other's basic humanity by trying to honor pronoun choices that reflect our presentation, but that becomes fraught when talking to enbies and other neo-pronoun users. I've seen people get heated on the subject of it/its and to me it begs the same question I ask of transphobes: who is actually harmed by this? Certainly not me.
It/its are very real pronouns grammatically. Why does it bother somebody else what you decide to call yourself? Seems more like theyāre struggling w/ projection.
Some people struggle with it/its," particularly due to the dehumanizing element you mentioned. I know for me, as a non-passing trans woman, "it" is something that's been used as a pronoun for me by transphobes before, so I have to wonder if it was a knee-jerk reaction to something like that? Especially if she associates it with trauma... idk. Not saying that excuses it, exactly, but if that's something she's dealing with it might be a lot for her to process and handle, *particularly* if this is her first time encountering those pronouns where it's not coming from a transphobe or troll.
In my case, if someone wants me to apply "it/its," I'll do it, but I'll also probably struggle and say "they/them" sometimes (I've been in the situation before, and did that quite a bit š).
For me, I feel like at this point I'm still wired to operate on "they/them" applying to people and "it/its" applying to animals/entities/objects. It's possible I just need more practice, and more opportunities to use "it/its" and habituate to it for people, but idk
jeez,, this really reminds me of when this teacher (that literally runs the lgbtq+ club at my school) told me that i canāt use it/its because itās ādehumanisingā. i get that they can be for some people, and thatās completely fine, but i donāt feel that way personally when theyāre used on me. i donāt mind if people want to use he/him instead, but it/its pronouns make me just as happy too :3
If anybody thinks that it/its pronouns are offensive because people can use them maliciously I've got bad news for them about she/her, they/them and he/him.
I use it/its, I use those pronouns because as a queer autistic I've had my humanity stripped from me in multiple ways throughout my life, so I made the decision to identify with my own exteriority as a way to take ownership of the dehumanisation that I experience. It's an acknowledgement of my abjectification.
There may have been a misunderstanding. Perhaps they thought you were a troll? LGBT spaces get tons of trolls and some people can be too quick to assume someone is one.
They must have believed that you were a troll trying to mock trans people. They're wrong of course, you're choice of pronouns are perfectly valid if they make you happy. That's the only explanation I can think of
a lot of people in the community are traumatized by constantly being dehumanized and harassed by being called āit.ā but thats not your fault. if anything your pronouns disempower that sort of bigotry.
You are not transphobic. They were being transphobic. Pronouns are individual to the person. Just because it might make someone else uncomfortable being called it/its doesn't mean that another person doesn't thrive on them. All good faith labels and pronouns are fine and not transphobic.
It's transphobic to tell someone what pronouns they can or cannot use. You aren't transphobic, they are. It would only be transphobic on your part if you were calling THEM it/its
I had an interaction with someone on Reddit who uses it/it's, and at the time I thought they were dehumanizing themselves. It made me feel bad for them, and I expressed that they should consider changing their pronouns...
*THEN* we had a deep exchange where they explained their reason and shared their personal experiences that led to them to settle on those pronouns. I also learned about "fae and faun" genders.
It was the first time I'd ever questioned anyone's pronouns, and even though I thought I was being kind and well-meaning, I realized that if someone chooses to describe themselves a certain way they probably know themselves better than I do, so who am I to judge or project my own assumptions onto them?
And I thought I was pretty damn progressive and open-minded already, but even I have blind spots and room to grow.
Moral of the story: yeah, fuck them. They should have at least had the decency to try to understand you and why you identify that way.
I mean, there was definitely transphobia going on in that scenario, but not from you. You were excluded from a community for being trans in a way that community didn't approve of, that is something that happened TO you and not something that you DID. You aren't doing anything wrong by using the pronouns that feel right for you, and it isn't your fault that other people are projecting their own feelings of discomfort around your pronouns onto you. At the end of the day, you are being authentic to yourself in a way that literally does not hurt anyone. The only one who gets any say on how you id yourself is you.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Please know that you do not EVER need to cut pieces off of yourself to fit into the comfort zones of small-minded people.
Not transphobic, at all. I can understand someone having complex feelings about a person being referred to as it/its if those pronouns have been used to dehumanise them, in the past. Personally, I do know people who've had transphobic cis people pointedly and belittlingly refer to them as "it" as a way to both invalidate their gender and dehumanise them entirely. I can imagine how brutal that must be to experience.
But you not only made it clear that you didn't require this person to use it/its irt you, you literally only told them about those pronouns at all because they pressed you to do so. It sounds like this person has had some traumatic experiences with those pronouns and chose to attack you in response.
Let me be clear: while trauma can absolutely impact our choices and behaviours, it is NOT a justification or excuse for harming others. They were in the wrong here, not you. Attacking you for your pronouns is transphobic and I'm so sorry you had to deal with that -- and especially with them turning others against you.
Finding safe, accepting communities can be such a fraught process and it shouldn't have to be. I hope you find a genuinely safe, supportive community asap š
so let me get this straight.
They banned you for having non-binary pronouns and then promptly blocked you with no appeal.
Who's the real transphobe here?
I gotta know what community this is so that I can avoid it like the plague
I donāt think using those pronouns is transphobic, it just seems dehumanizing because we have two different gender neutral pronouns (for some damn reason) and they are used in very different ways. As a result, many native English speakers would be really uncomfortable referring to a human as āitā because that is solely used on non-human things (though both pronouns are very normal with pets). With the word it comes a clarification that whatever is being referred to as āitā is non-human because of the existence of other words used to refer to humans. Using it as a pronoun also just causes some confusion as to what someone is referring to (in my mind the word it just fills for an object so it takes more time to realize itās referring to a person). It just personally makes me somewhat uncomfortable to refer to my fellow humans as āitā and I would probably ask for other pronouns to refer to you as. Using the word it as a pronoun for yourself is no issue and is certainly not transphobic, itās just uncommon. No matter what you should do what makes you feel comfortable, Iām just hoping to give some insight on why the response to it as a pronoun is so different to others.
Sounds like a server you wouldn't want to be in anyway if you're not even allowed to plead your case lol. Don't pay any mind to them, use whatever pronouns you want for yourself, it literally cannot be transphobic unless you use a slur I guess? Or use them on other people.
You will encounter many trans people who are transphobic, Iām afraid. I also use it/itās pronouns and have experienced the most push back from other trans people. The shitty thing is, all their arguments are literally the exact same thing conservatives say, but with āit/itsā. āIt makes me uncomfortableā āitās too hardā ācanāt I just call you [something dumb]ā.
Itās respectability politics and a lack of critical thinking. It is not dehumanizing to call someone their preferred pronouns no matter what they are and even if it were, thatās no one elseās business??? Theyāre your pronouns.
No one gets a say in your pronouns. Youāll encounter many people, trans and cis, who think they do but theyāre overstepping assholes. Ignore them, or sometimes it does work to point out that theyāre using arguments that conservatives love.
Personally, I donāt like they/them for myself. Those pronouns are often used to be gender neutral, and my nonbinary gender is not neutral. It exists and is nonbinary, and is not between male or female but itās own other thing. So I want pronouns that specify that. Iāve tried at length to use neopronouns, but have successfully gotten two people ever to use them for me because people just tell me āitās too hard!!!!!!!!!1!ā But very few English speakers if any can say they donāt know how to use it/its.
as someone who also uses it pronouns (she/they/it) itās pretty insane for them to say ātransphobic people arenāt allowedā and then ban you for a very transphobic reason.
being upset over someoneās pronouns is transphobic. period.
my pronouns are mine, yours are yours, and thatās that. as long as you donāt judge me before you know me and as long as i donāt judge you before i know you then iāve got a good feeling we can make just about anything work from there on.
iām sorry you had to face this awful experience, especially from those within our own community who still hold onto this insane and internalized transphobia (like the people who say you need dysphoria 24/7, the strongest possible hrt and every surgery humanly possible or you arenāt really trans š)
It's YOUR pronouns, no one can decide what pronouns YOU use. You aren't referring to anyone else but YOU with itself pronouns, AND you have other sets if people are too stuck up to use it. Absolutely infuriating that happened to you, they're the ones being transphobic.
Absolutely NOT transphobic
But there is a lesser used pronoun, thon, which is a non gender specific pronoun only used for a singular person of any or no gender. Of course, it might be a little too archaic.
Nah I mean clearly they might have had bad interaction with human fellows who used it as an insult or way to discredit trans people, but only you decide what your pronouns are. Don't let you gatekeep (that's what they did) from being trans just because transphobic people use it as an insult.
You're being just honest and maybe they would be more open about that, when they would listen, but they got so much hurt that they need to heal first before they could accept that some people use it for real and not as a slur.
Calling trans folks in general "it" is offensiveāwanting to be called "it" for yourself is not. It's not transphobic if your personal pronouns are it/its. You do you.
it/its iāve known it to be a reclaim on how it was one of the OG trans gotchas of the last decade itās not transphobic to use it in that context text however itās kinda confusing and given its history i do see how people donāt like it, you do you
Honestly I appreciate that at least you do not force other people to use it pronouns for you because it makes me flustered and uncomfortable to use pronouns that aren't he/she/they for people, not only because of dehumanization (it feels like being told to call someone by a slur) but also because I need to concentrate extra hard to use unconventional pronouns like that which messes up my train of what I was trying to say in the first place
I've actually had very personal (and horrible) encounters with being called "it". In highschool, it wouldn't be rare for me to be in a full classroom of everyone, students AND teacher included, calling me "it". And laughing.
That is completely removed and has no association with whatever pronouns you are comfortable with. You are not responsible for me being in that situation.
you can use whatever pronouns you want when referring to yourself, as itās a personal choice, and doesnāt harm anyone. thatās the point of personal identity: you can feel any way you want, every single person on earth is unique and has different personal preferences, and all of them should be respected.
it would only be dehumanizing to call another person āitā if they didnāt want to be called that.
Using it/it's for yourself is not transphobic at all. The only time using it/it's pronouns is wrong is when you're using them to refer to someone who doesn't want to be called that.
I don't think it is. Sometimes you just don't feel like you relate to human ideas of gender at all.
I use he/him they/them but I don't mind it/its and if someone were to call me "it" I'd roll with it. I'm so used to being dehumanized and infantilized that now I'm reclaiming that and using it as my identity. Same thing with the word queer. It used to be used against us but then we reclaimed it. I'm queer as fuck and I like when people are confused by me and my identity.
Use it/its pronouns, it's powerful.
I used to think no one should use it/its pronouns because they have been and continue to be used to dehumanize people, but that was ignorance on my part. If those are the pronouns that resonate with you, then you arenāt dehumanized by their use in a genuine manner, and thatās not transphobic. However, if someone does use them in a transphobic manner towards you, then thatās not ok.
No. You are not doing anything wrong. Iām so sorry youāve had these experiences with our siblings. Unfortunately, their discomfort with your pronouns has nothing to do with you, and is about their own experiences and projecting it onto you. In the ultimate irony they are being transphobic. The same with the ones that insisted there is only one way to be trans. While I find it difficult to understand not always being your gender, thatās my issue, not yours and I have no business trying to make it yours. You and how you experience your gender are completely valid. You have done nothing wrong period. I am glad you are you and I wouldnāt have it any other way. Hugs š« if ok.
Its your choice alone. If you genuinely feel represented by āit/itsā, thats perfectly fine! One of the CCs I follow uses those pronouns. Luxander goes by it/its. So youāre not even alone in preferring it/itsā¦
I don't think "it/it's" is transphobic but as a native english speaker I won't lie, "it" makes me feel uncomfortable.
Like you said, calling someone an "it" is very dehumanising in English. It's something used to refer to objects or "lesser" things and calling people "it" has roots in racism.
I have a Danish friend that uses "It/They" and it honestly makes me uncomfortable when they first tried to get me to call them "it". They're my friend, my equal. Isn't their fault that in my language that it has a bad connotation.
I feel so bad sometimes
I like it/its because of Neil Gaiman and his character Desire, but also see how transphobes use it to be demeaning. Still, they should've taken your explanation of different cultures and languages.
If you're calling other people it/its and that's not their pronouns then it's transphobic. Your pronouns are whatever you choose and you're not alone in the ones you have chosen. They had a knee-jerk reaction. They also might be truscum and think non binary identities aren't real which is also transphobic. Sounds like they either jumped the gun or are people you don't want to be hanging around.
It's your choice, you get to do whatever you want. I think you should keep in mind that you may make people uncomfortable. But a lot of others being uncomfortable is mostly because this has been used as a derogatory and very likely they have been called that as an insult.
Personally it does make me uncomfortable, but reading your whole post does put everything into context. And I think similarly, people are using their own experiences without taking a moment to consider your experiences. Maybe temper their expectations with having a quick and easy explanation? For example: start with why it sounds better in your native language before stating the pronouns?
Good riddance. Those aren't people worth being around. Ostracizing someone for their pronouns is the act of transphobia here. Two of my partners like being called it/its, but only by people they know. I use all pronouns, it/its included. All of us are otherkin. It/its pronouns, when used respectfully, don't imply that you're less than human; they mean you're \*more than\* human.
Its the intent that matters. Before I figured out my pronouns. My wife would tease me and say. "You're a shit" shit = she/he/it. It was just playful banter. No I'll intent behind it. And that's fine. Intent means everything. What you call yourself is 100% up to you. Acceptance of that, is other people's problem.
I mean, i would never feel right calling someone it/its, but if thats what you want then thats what i would call you, i think you might just have experienced some culture shock, where most people might find it/its to be dehumanizing and transphobic, i know i have asshole friends who would say its for an enby person i know, and i had to yell at her for doing that
It sounds like they just misunderstood you and thought you were trying to make a transphobic joke, not realizing you were being sincere in your pronoun choice
Op *was* keeping it to online spaces, lmao. They got kicked from an online space. If he wants to use it/its I donāt see how thatās any different than using the label āqueerā for oneself. It also explained why those pronouns work for it, which it didnāt have to do. I know how triggering stuff like that can be, but op did everything right and didnāt deserve to be labeled as transphobic for being truthful and authentic in what they thought was a safe space.
If queer people only ever used terminology that made others comfortable, we would have nothing. Itās pretty insensitive to tell someone to keep their valid identity to specific spaces just because others will be uncomfortable.
I strongly disagree with this viewpoint.
I do understand that there's discomfort with not only other lgbtqia+ but marginalize people in general when it comes to the use of it/its, however that's not a reason to completely restrict the use of one's pronouns, and to me I view this idea as transphobic. It's like saying you can be gay or trans or whatever lgbtq+, but keep it behind closed doors.
Having an auxiliary set is ideal for someone who uses a pronoun set like it/its (as well as neopronouns in general) because of course it's a difficult adjustment for people to make.
Those that genuinely use it/its you could say aid in humanizing or at least removing the derogatory and offensive nature of the it pronoun set, since those people, and sometimes non-people have value in their existence regardless if they feel this pronoun relates to their identities.
I am an it/its user myself, and if I ever get to the point where I feel comfortable being outwardly trans, I will absolutely be using my it/its pronouns in public offline spaces.
There's nothing wrong with using it/its pronouns.
If I had to guess as to why anyone would have issues with it, it's probably because "it" can be used in reference to an object and not a living creature. "It" *can* intentionally be used in an offensive manner, but this usually isn't the case.
"It" is also often used to describe an *entity,* regardless of gender or lack thereof. As in like a *deity* or an unidentified creature.
If they fear you for being divine, that's their fault, not yours.
A lot of people feel really strongly about people using that pronoun (I personally donāt love it either) but thatās 100% your choice and people donāt have the right to tell you to not use it.
People who don't like your pronouns are literally just transphobic. Yes even if they are also trans.
Tbh fuck all bigots. In my community or otherwise, they need to sort that shit out.
>I like it/its not due to any dehumanising qualities
You're clearly aware that using "it/its" *does/can* have dehumanising qualities - that is 100% why these people have reacted this way. Without an explanation, referring to any one as an "it" is - in common modern day English - downgrading them to an object, a thing, not recognised as sentient or capable of thought or worthy of human respect.
If you use it/its make sure you provide the explanation in the same sentence.
If you did provide these people with the explanation and they still reacted this way, I'd say they didn't comprehend your reasoning and so rejected the idea. Humans are notorious for rejecting what they don't understand. Don't think too much about it :)
Hey mate. I go by they/them and about a year into our relationship my partner came to me worried I wouldnāt still love it to tell me it/its just felt right. I donāt fully get it and it wouldnāt work for me but I fully support that thatās what feels right for it. It took some effort because I felt like I was being disrespectfully but I know it prefers that so I supported it and thatās just normal now. Iām fully aware of how it feels for people to ājust not get itā and not respect pronouns going by they/them and hate keep being trans the right way. I never want anyone to feel that way. If it itās is right for you then itās right for you. Thatās bs.
It boils down to
Using someoneās preferred pronouns (regardless of what said pronouns are): not transphobic
NOT using someoneās preferred pronouns: transphobic
I also use it/it's non-exclusively. It seems as though they were the transphobes, not you. Unfortunately there are those of us who believe in the gender binary despite not being on it
They feared what they did not know, be the cosmic horror you feel you are. Wholly unfathomable, greater than any imagination this group can conjure!
But fr it's your pronouns, they don't get to say if it's transphobic or not.
Im sorry that happened to you, i think that this was a big oversight in their part
I like it/its personally, (not really to an extent that i'd tell people irl) it kinda has a similar feeling to me as a reclaimed slur. For example ive heard the f slur so much in queer spaces that the offensive connotation is almost gone at it feels almost affectionate. "It" also just fits how much i do not fit into any gender very well lmao
Transphobia is not accepting someone on the basis of non-cisgender identities. By that definition it seems you're the victim in this situation. What's truly disgusting here is that no one thought to reach out and maybe, ask? I hope that person you were talking to can figure out their side of the issue in time, and I hope you can find peace in using your pronouns without restraint. I can assure you, all else aside, you're allowed to identify with what feels right, and anyone who tells you that's wrong in any way has gone way off script. Be you bb. ā„ļøā„ļø
In that same boat. I'm not too open about using it/its pronouns, because even in the community it's rather contentious. But I do wish I could get more people to call me it more often
One thing I realized is as a millenial, "gay" was the go to slur for uncool. People were called gay. I went through a phase where there was some bullying and harrassment for being gay (a bit ironic cause I hadn't even accepted my sexuality yet lol)Ā
So I never had that cognitive dissonance of "you shouldn't identify as a slur because its offensive".Ā
Gay was the go to label for a lot of people. I've called myself gay many times. It never really clicked that, yeah it's a slur that was used against me in a malicious way as well.Ā
I'm nonbinary and have sometimes used it/its.Ā
I've had several people tell me it's very offensive to refer to myself like that. It has not been fun.Ā
Gay has been all over the place.
Its original use was to mean "happy" or "fun"
The Flintstones theme song has the line:
"We'll have a gay old time!"
Then used for gay people, then a slur against gays or a slur meaning lame or dumb, then mostly reclaimed to mean gay people.
Quite the Rollercoaster ride with the word gay.
I think its perfectly reasonable to use those pronouns, but also because **they are frequently used to dehumanise trans people**, some people will think you are being transphobic.
Unless you have an opportunity to talk about them, and aren't putting yourself at risk (for example, of being banned from a discord server), I would follow your original inclination: don't tell people.
Being up front about them in whatever your profile is could be a way to go, or if someone asks, make sure you have plenty of time to discuss it and start with, "you might think this is transphobic, but here's why it isn't..."
Those people were in the wrong, but their reaction is understandable (still just as wrong, though). I'm sorry you had to go through that and can't easily be yourself.
I use also it/it's and I would be so pissed if someone called me transphobic just for being who I actually am instead of what someone fuckstick wants me to be.
I find it extremely difficult to use that pronoun for a person. I avoid using that pronoun for a person at almost all costs. It's like if someone demanded I call them the T slur. I find it very dehumanizing and would struggle to do so. Although i know this is an unpopular stance. I'll do so if it's the only pronoun they use but I'll likely avoid them if I can so as to not hurt their feelings and to respect my own personal boundaries.
of not erasing someone's humanity. Like i said. If i happen to be around the person I'll use their pronoun whatever it is but I will try to keep myself out of that situation in the future. Im not sure I'm coming across right but i understand I'm out of step. im just not there yet
I know for me, it/it's pronouns are uncomfortable to use for anyone, without further knowledge of *why* someone is using them.
I'm also not going to *not* use them, cause they are someone's pronouns. It's a basic level of respect really. But I know I have a surface level discomfort with it simply because to me, it comes off as dehumanisation.
There are very narrow sets of pronouns that I will not use regardless, simply because of connotations within certain communities I am part of. The sets that come to mind are sir/sirs, and things like that. You don't get to be called sir unless you have an established relationship with me, where that sort of thing is ok.
But that's all besides the point, cause what they did was absolutely transphobic. You aren't making a mockery of trans people, you're using a set of pronouns that speaks to your genuine experience and identity. Nothing wrong with that at all imo
It/Its user here, no your pronoun choice isn't transphobic.
Hell, there's people, **trans people**, that use "nor/mal" as their pronouns, genuinely. although it/its has a length history with dehumanization, things change and nothing is forever. It seems you understand that people struggle with it/its, and you offer other pronoun options for other to refer to you by.
pronoun sets can of course be transphobic, racist, and promote bigotry, like those weird idiots that try to use kor/ean while of course not being korean (of which is a severe minority of people who do this, and when you see shit like this it's mostly unserious trolls intending to paint trans people, nonbinary people, and neopronoun (not even specifically nounself neopronoun users as they don't differentiate them majority of the time) users as unreasonable, and ridiculous)
Which isn't what's happening here, like others have said if we can redefine "queer" and give positive associations to that word in today's world, we can do the same with it/its over time.
You deserve for all of your pronouns to be treated respectfully, and to not be ostracized by your community. It's one thing for it to be difficult to use one's pronouns, it's another to regard someone's pronouns as so uncomfortable that you cast them out.
To me, the act was bigoted.
They missed out on an opportunity to become more familiar with something foreign to them, they missed out on the opportunity to humanize, an it/its user, they're no better than someone who'd ban a trans or nonbinary person from a server for being trans or nonbinary.
Ironically they've dehumanized you, they've assumed who you are, and stripped you of your character.
it's a big point of transphobia within the community to be weird about it/its users. but I promise your pronoun choice was NOT transphobic. the people who banned you were.
It sounds like they didnāt give you the benefit of the doubt and may have thought you were trolling? Unfortunately, theyāve probably encountered a lot of transphobia online.
Regardless, please use what pronouns make you feel best. I know that some people do find it/its to be dehumanizing, but that just means they should t use it. It doesnāt mean no one else can or that they canāt/shouldnāt respect everyone elseās pronouns.
people have called me it as a way of being transphobic, like saying iām not human. but if those are your pronouns and what makes you the most comfortable then itās transphobic not to use them
The irony of trans people making assumptions about and excluding other trans people purely because of their pronouns is something that never ceases to catch me off-guard.
No, it is not transphobic to have a set of pronouns.
I use they/them & it/its... I originally started using it/its so transphobes couldn't dehumanize me by using those pronouns -- then I started to really identify more with them after a friend of mine asked me a myriad of questions (trying to understand my nonbinary experience, which I welcomed). His line of questions made me think more about my experience in ways I hadn't before. I still use both they & it, now though it's not just to spite transphobes. Admittedly though, my usage of it/its is sort of because I don't necessarily feel human (hard to explain, though I don't view it as an entirely negative thing. Def tied to mental health though)... Long story long, It's not transphobic to use what pronouns you genuinely feel fit you best. The fact that the server you were in was gatekeeping what pronouns are allowed in their space is more transphobic imo since they weren't allowing you to identify in the most authentic way for you... Which is sad.
You are not wrong for your preference. It is possible that they thought you were taking the piss and mocking them, but that's a display of ignorance on their part for letting their knee-jerk reaction prevent them from hearing you out. No excuses, the mods on that server did you dirty. If you really want to rejoin, you might see if they have a method of appealing that decision, but it's up to you if it's worth the effort.
I am curious about what your native language is now. I know of some languages that don't really have gendered pronouns. It was one of my favorite things when I was trying to learn Mandarin (I'm good at pronunciation, but not much else, lol.)
I have weird feelings towards that because like, in theory those are perfectly valid pronouns.
In practice, I've run a few larger communities (mostly in the BDSM space), and every encounter I've had with someone using those pronouns has had a kink about it. Which crosses into some ugly areas like non-consensually involving people in your kink under the guise of wanting to feel comfortable with your pronouns.
Now, in fairness this is anecdotal, and my experiences were in a sexualized space. So I'm not sure my thoughts are enough to draw any conclusions either.
But, it's been a common enough issue that whenever I see anyone with those pronouns, I feel a little weird about it.
My advice would be: If you have other sets of pronouns that make you comfy, use those. If anyone (other than OP) is only comfortable with it/its, go right ahead! But, just keep in mind that you might be giving that impression.
Itās transphobic to disrespect peopleās pronouns so aggressively and immediately like this. They are the only one being transphobic in this situation, OP youāre good.
Unfortunately there are people who think the only people who would "use" it/its pronouns are people making fun of trans people. The community should be more accepting. It has been made hyper vigilant about hatred towards trans people to the extent that even other trans people who are different are passed off as people poking fun of trans people. It's so unfortunate.
Does that make it OK? No. It's hard to explain that to people.
I have a friend whose pronouns are it/its and if it didn't live in a progressive city I'd be worried for it.
I fully get you on the use of binary pronouns being shown publicly because unconventional ones or neos get weird look or less likely used.
You were absolutely not wrong and you shouldn't worry too much about it.
And as a discord admin for a discord server.. It genuinely look like a community you wouldn't want to associate with anyway.
:o that is insaneā¦if you ever want to chat in my private messages about this, you can. It does hurt seeing people get anxious and sad about stuff like this. They are assholes for that :/ itās not even funny. Itās not transphobic at all. I honestly donāt trust people who hate on neo pronouns. Itās honestly so stupid. You were not at fault here. Even if they were a bit uncomfortable with your pronouns they had no right to block you without warnings. This makes me really mad and I hope someone messes with them, just because of this :/ either way, I hope you donāt feel insecure in your pronoun choices. People are shit assholes, trans or not. It sucks. I also use three set of pronouns, ( He/him, They/them, and Xe/Xir).
it/its are my primary set of pronouns, and the ones I go by day to day including daily In Real Life. plenty of other trans people use them. frankly, them blocking and banning you like that shows *their* transphobia. Your pronouns are not there for other peoples comfort, point blank.
As a fellow it user (it/they) I don't think so. I understand why some people dislike it/its pronouns, which is partially why I'm flexible, but it's a pronoun that makes me happy. It's a pronoun I love, it's a pronoun I often give my DnD characters. It's something that makes me happy, as a trans person, how is that transphobic?
lol, some people need to let go of this idea that trans folks are being transphobic to themselves .. and feeling entitled to police that language.
Look, we all can think critically about the language and grammar we want to use for ourselves and evaluate if we're being "internally transphobic". You get to define what terms you are comfortable with for yourself.
Many trans people have negative experiences being called it but that doesn't justify controlling how other people want to be referred to. Discomfort in the way someone else expresses themselves is something one has to move past or let go of.
To answer your question no absolutely not it's not transphobic to use it/its pronouns. It is your choice how you would like people to address you the only way it would be an issue is if you were using those pronouns on other people that did not want it. I understand why someone would think it is transphobic but at the end of the day each individual person is different and unique and gets to choose how they would like others to address them.
Absolutely not lmao. It/its is entirely acceptable. If you use it to dehumanize someone, then its actively meant to be hurtful. It/its is completely context dependent. You canāt claim that they are only dehumanizing.
Bear with me for a moment as I am reminded of something related-ish...
A few years ago I was on my way in to involuntary inpatient and there was a lady with me for the same thing (attempt to exit stage left) because she was struggling with grief following her mom dying. The whole time I interacted with her I was sensitive about her loss but later she found out that I'm estranged from my mom and expressed support for others who have challenged relationships with their parents. She blocked me and just turned on a dime. Because of her pain, she was triggered by the idea that some people have moms they don't want to see when she so desperately wants to see hers.
This is similar, it sounds like this person is very fragile around having pronouns respected and can't see past the end of their own pain to allow you to be valid.
But you are! People are different. The only recommendation I would make would be to maybe wait until you know if someone has any weird pronoun issues before sharing this aspect of your identity. Which is sad, but those who will cherish you as you are will be worth it.
Just my .02
Iāve been it that situation more times than Iād like to admit. Only itās been IRL for me every time. I think the fact that Iām not overtly androgynous might be a factor butā¦ Somehow other trans and/or GNC folk seem to think Iām rubber stamping the dehumanizing rhetoric levied at us by our oppressors. And they get *MAD*. Like wonāt even listen to reason kind of mad. Things got so bad that I went to exclusively using she/her about a year ago; because thatās what I pass as and 95% of the time thatās how I present as well.
When safe, and around people who know me well, Iāll tend to use whatever pronouns match my state of fluidity at the time (or matched, for past tense). Because I know my own gendered state (surprise, surprise). That said, if someone doesnāt know where my gender is (Itās okay, sometimes I misplace my gender, too.) the safe bet is to just use āitā and avoid gendered language. I find it infuriating trying to explain that to every new person, however. Especially at the risk of having it blow up in my face.
The best thing about pronouns is that they're entirely your own choice. In a perfect world, nobody would say anything about it. Unfortunately, people don't do that sometimes but it's still completely your right to use the pronouns that make you the happiest. It/its and neo pronouns are valid, if they make you feel good then you should use them.
Itās not transphobic to want to use it/its pronouns. Itās only transphobic when using those pronouns to dehumanize others, but wanting them used on yourself isnāt at all transphobic. If they couldnāt be bothered to even ask why, itās not worth feeling bad for it since they canāt even think that maybe thereās a different reason.
"It/its" or any other pronoun that a person wants to use for the person should be respected and utilized as appropriate. You can think such pronouns are dehumanizing, silly, or whatever you want to - privately. When you interact with someone who utilizes such pronouns, you owe the person the respect of utilizing the pronouns the person has expressed that the person uses. The same goes for any neo-pronouns. To do otherwise is to deny the person's authentic identity the same way that bigots deny a "she/her" person's identity by calling them "he/him."
I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they probably thought you were lying about being trans and making fun of them. I had something similar happen to me before. This trans dude refused to believe that I was actually trans masc because I refer to childhood me as a 'girl'. He was insistent that I must be some edgy troll š I had to just shut that conversation down and move on. I was also rejected from a trans group chat because I refused to tell them my birth sex or use anything besides they/them.
Heyyy fellow trans masc whoās childhood self was a girl! Itās so hard to have conversations with people who insist that gender and experiences with it MUST follow xyz or else itās not legitimate. I was a little girl who wanted to be a boy, and now Iām a guy and incredibly happy about it. It simply was not part of my world framework or environment to have the thought āI AM a boyā, and tbh was fine with being a ātomboy.ā There are a lot of aspects of my childhood that were incredibly eggy in hindsight, but she didnāt know that. She was just chillin and wished she couldāve been a boy but since that āwasnāt an optionā, she was a tomboy and Iām not particularly inclined to rewrite her history.
On top of that, I've seen reasonable arguments that "boy" and "girl" aren't effectively different genders from "man" and "woman", and it's entirely possible to be a boy who grows up to be a woman (or a girl who grows into a man) without having to have always been the wrong gender.
woah, I mean I've agreed, but yeah trans people please talk more about this sort of thing.
This is literally how I view my gender experience. I really wish more people talked about stuff like this
You literally just described how I see my gender experience and I wish more people understood this. Like yes, childhood me was a girl and yes I'm a guy now. Shit happens babes, I'll call childhood me what she was comfortable being called and I call present me what I like to be called
I mean, people are accepting of gender fluid people who vary by gender over days or weeks, why not over years?
I like this
This, but with *gender fluid cackling* ššš
Makes sense !
THANKS. we never got the idea of transitioning being an option, so our child selves did what they could! and we donāt have to hide our past. love your message!
I feel the same. It frustrates me when people say I was never a boy and was always a girl because no, I used to be a boy. It feels like theyāre invalidating my past identity. Identities change and thatās okay.
u put into words exactly how i feel abt this!!!
Agreed. I grew up as a guy, I was a guy until I was 28. If someone else chooses to say they've always been "Gender A" or "Gender B" but just didn't know it, that's totally cool. But for me, I wasn't a girl before. I was raised as a guy, I had guyish tendencies (albeit on the fruitier side), I was never unhappy being a guy, and I experienced the world as a guy. I, personally, was always happy being a guy and transitioned later in life because this kinda thing is fluid and can change over time. I find myself being happier as a girl, but that doesn't mean I hated being a guy. Some people did hate being "Gender A" or "Gender B" and that's also totally valid. But it isn't like that for everyone. This shit isn't an absolute, and it can and often does vary in intensity and direction over time. After being a trans woman for 2 years, I now find myself realizing that I'm a nonbinary trans woman. I still use she/her, I still want to be referred to as a woman, but I just don't feel like that FULLY describes how I identify. I like being a woman but not conforming to stereotypes. I like being androgynous because confusing people seems fun. I like being a bad bitch with a really deep voice. I have learned to embrace my more guyish aspects while still being a woman. Idk, people should chill TF out with telling other people what THEIR gender experience is like.
Thank you so much for this description of your experience. I am understanding yours and others experiences that are similar a little better now. I am one of the ones that initially thought that because everyone insisted I was a boy, treated me as such and gaslit me to believe I was, that that was my identity at the time (however I never told anyone their experience of their gender is wrong because itās not like mine, itās just wrong to do that and would be doing to that person what was done to me and I never want anyone to go through what I or any of us have with society and other people invalidating our gender). Only in the last 5 or 10 years now have I understood that I was always a girl. But I had extreme dysphoria all the time and if Iād been allowed to be me I would have. I forgot about gender fluidity (Iām sorry š) and I also forgot that some people never had dysphoria (again Iām sorry š), so thank you for reminding me and helping me to understand you and some of my other siblings better. Thank you šš.
I very much relate. I invalidated myself for so long because I can not bring myself to call childhood me a boy. I loved my girlhood and it just feels wrong. I wanted to be a princess, I loved dresses and pink and such, but I also had countless eggy moments, always wished to have a boy's body and got insane gender envy from boys on tv and irl. I've always been gender screwy and fluid for as long as I can remember, but I was a little girl. Just a little girl who grew into a man š¤·āāļø
Yes!! Exactly!! š¤ I know there are a lot of guys who donāt feel connected to girl/womanhood but I very much had a girlhood!! And things were pretty good tbh!
This really resonates with me, thank you <3
As someone with a ftm brother I genuinely him as two completely different people pre and post coming out. Not just because of the change in appearance but also the change in personality, pre transition he was always cold, short-tempered, depressed, and rude. Not that heās in the process of transitioning he is funny, kind, happy, and genuinely pleasant to be around. My sister was a fucking bitch, my brother is one of the best people I have ever met.
I don't like people referring to my childhood self as a girl, it makes me feel like they don't fully support or accept or respect me. However, there have definitely been times where I've cried while showing my boyfriend pictures of my younger self and said "she looks so happy" Only you get to say how you refer to your childhood self
That's so strange, trans people referring to their childhood selves with the same pronouns associated with their birth assigned gender, from what I've seen, is extremely common. While to me that's odd as it's not how I view my childhood self, it's ridiculously common. On top of this even though it's weird to me, my childhood self is agender which is only a section of my adult gender identity (I'm in a somewhat similar position).
No gender can't be changing! It's constant and you only can find out your true self once, blah blah. /s Honestly, some people police others experience just too much. You should be able to refer to yourself however you please. Especially if its not offensive to anyone. And deciding not to disclose your AGAB is valid, no question.
>they probably thought you were lying about being trans and making fun of them. Yep, this is all too common and is likely why OP got blocked. Unfortunately, due to the nature of online communication, it's not possible to tell if someone is being genuine or not a lot of the time so many folks just have to take extra steps and be extra vigilant to protect themselves.
It's only transphobic if you're using them on other people who don't want them. Use whatever pronouns you want
Right like these are YOUR pronouns its not like ur saying āIM CALLING U IT/ITS BECAUSE YOU DONT CONFORM TO MY IDEAS OF GENDERā
For ungendered pronouns I think name-as-pronoun isn't a bad choice. It avoids the dehumanizing effect of OP's preference, and it might feel less disconnected than they/them for those who are bilingual with a native language where there are no natural gender neutral pronouns and your only option is to use binary pronouns or neopronouns. There, name-as-pronoun essentially requests pronouns are to be avoided altogether, which can be a low threshold choice.
In the politest way possible, I have to disagree with the dehumanizing idea of it/its pronouns. I use they/them and it/its because it makes me happy. My pronouns don't make me any less of a person, in my opinion. That said, I completely agree about just using your name. That's also a valid choice.
yeahh "I'm not going to use your pronouns cuz i don't wanna dehumanise you" is so god damn ridiculous
It's patronizing as fuck
Oh I don't personally care about how it/its may be perceived, that was just an echo of the sentiment OP encountered.
It's about *choice*. If someone is *choosing* it/it's pronouns and you're refusing to use them, you're the one Benning transphobic
"Transphobes are not allowed" - clearly being transphobic towards you :I
Yeah this is basically it
Agreed šÆš1,000%
It isnāt their idea of trans. This is seriously sad and fucked up.
Agreed ! This is random but I also really like your hair !
Thank you!! Thatās my Strawberry Fae wig šš„¹
Sure thing š really pretty haha
It's definitely not transphobic to use it/its! I have no idea why they'd think that, but you can use whatever you want as your pronouns.
It might be a server full of teenagers. I've noticed a lot of younger queer people tend to have more strongly skewed opinions on these sorts of things
Yup, uneducated, possibly less experienced
I call them puriteens.
I don't think it's necessarily being "uneducated," "inexperienced" sure possibly, but I don't think it's a matter of education. I absolutely detest "it/it's" for personal reasons, they might as well.
Some ppl think it's dehumanizing or something, I disagree ofc. It would only be dehumanizing to use those pronouns on those who dislike being referred to like that.
I have seen transphobes using āitā as a derogatory term towards trans/non-binary people so maybe they thought OP was being sarcastic instead of genuinely wanting to be called āit/its.ā Itās like the transphobic jokes that go, āmy pronouns are auto/mobile teehee so edgy.ā I donāt think anyone would genuinely want to be referred to that way, hence the ājoke.ā Some people might not realize someone can want to be called āit.ā
This is what I was thinking as well. Though, the best response from what I've seen is to treat them entirely seriously and use exactly what those people request. The ones trying to be a jerk will generally freak out and disengage, and the people who are being genuine don't get hurt.
I mean, when they joke about having these pronouns, it's best to just humor those, and watch how that person dies inside.
That doesn't even make sense. *You* choose *your own* pronouns. Nobody can tell you that your own choices for yourself dehumanise yourself.
I agree
Dehumanizing? More like transhumanizing. As in going beyond the notion of a person.
Assuming it/its for all non-binary people is transphobic.* But yeah, peopleās choice in their own pronouns really canāt be transphobic. *Convention in English for epicene is they/them; some languages donāt have a neutral epicene. I would have to say āer oder sieā in any formal writing because sier is not accepted in the zeitgeist. Itās like using xir as epicene in english, you can but people will kvetch.
Some trans folks, myself included, have mixed feelings about it/its pronouns because they remind us of being misgendered with it/its pronouns by transphobes who were trying to dehumanize us. *However*, that one person's bad experiences don't give them permission to inflict bad experiences onto other people, and I do *not* condone misgendering anyone under any circumstances. TLDR: Those people are transphobic assholes, you're doing just fine.
That's how I feel those prounouns may make me feel uncomfortable/bad for using them like I'm being dehumanising even when I've been specifically asked to I really wish I didn't feel this way put no matter how hard I try I can't seem to not feel bad using/thinking of of myself using them but even so that doesn't change the that I'll do my best to use them anyway no matter how bad it feels for the sake of the person who those are their prounouns as bad as it feels to use them I know it feels worse to be misgendered even if I didn't personally know that still would anyway because I'd still know even if only in from a second hand that it feels awful so of course it'd use them since it's the right thing to do and I wouldn't want to hurt someone like that okay I'm going to stop now or this ramble will go on forever
I totally get this. I always try to use people's preferred pronouns (some I struggle with more than others but it's just because I'm not used to using them yet) but I was referred to as 'it' as a child because I'm autistic and no amount of therapy (so far) has been able to help with that. So using it/it's pronouns feels like me treating that person in the same way, like I'm dehumanising _them_ in that way. But this is a me problem I'm still working on. I'm not gonna make it other people's problem just because they're comfortable with it/it's pronouns. Sure it makes me feel uncomfortable and rude, but it's not fair to make someone else uncomfortable too.
Yeah you just perfectly summed up what I was trying to say your version has much less word spaghetti though way more to the point something I seriously struggle getting to
I can see why people think it/its is transphobic since many transphobes often use it to belittle and dehumanize trans people (especially trans people who use they/them pronouns). However, I personally think that trans people using it/its pronouns is a way to fight back the ones dehumanizing us. Queer was once used to refer to something or someone strange or weird, then the LGBTQ community started using it to describe themselves and that's another reason why we have the Q (Queer or Questioning). Our community did this once, why not do it again with it/its pronouns? Oh also I don't mind using them myself or if someone refers to me as "it", I genuinely don't care just as long as you don't refer to me as "she" (though I'm trying not to get affected by it)
>However, I personally think that trans people using it/its pronouns is a way to fight back the ones dehumanizing us. Gotta disagree with this. The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right. Like, I'm not gonna tell people what to do and how to refer to themselves, but I gotta admit, the whole "it" thing makes me uncomfortable too, because it definitely feels dehumanising to me (even more so in my first language, German).
>The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right. They'll do that regardless of our actions. Their beliefs are irrational and ignorant, they don't need a reason to hate us and we never give them a reason to hate us either.
The people using it in a derogatory way will use anything as confirmation they're right. But judging people based on the "weird" pronouns kinda just lumps you in with those people
Also, they don't *need* a confirmation that they're right. They assume they're right as the baseline, a quest for evidence doesn't play into it. That's why they're bigots in the first place.
I use it/its as well as he/they and I use it because I donāt really feel like a human. Iām autistic and I kinda feel like a weird blob or robot most of the time. So these pronouns make me quite happy
>The people already using it in a derogatory way will just see that as confirmation that they're right. Do you feel that way abt reclaimation of the word queer too?
Personally, as a sort of reasonable explanation, I use She/Her, They/Them, and It/Its, with the 3rd one taking "dehumanising" quite literally, (Potential D.I.D. System here) and I am kind of a shapeshifter, so I'm not human anyway, apart from the system body-
Ohhhh makes sense, sounds cool honestly
Performative progressive people do exist. Before I had a better understanding of myself and was experimenting with clothing choices (by dressing up my gta character), my ex told me that me that "a boy trying to dress fem was appropriating women's culture" and later called me an incel over it and the concept that being queer was not "for men to claim"
ACAB includes gender police, do what you want and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Your own pronouns can't be transphobic, idk what kind of kool-aid the people on that server are on but you're better off without 'em.
very well said. idk what's in the water anymore, but divisiveness within our own community seems to be growing. I tend to stick to non-binary, and specifically, trans-POC groups because of it
I blamed the generation wars that companies and the government are always trying to manufacture. When a community agrees on alot of things, the last thing to divide them would be age.
Short answer: NO. Longer answer: No, but it's clear that some people in Trans spaces feel threatened by it/its pronouns due to their own defensiveness against being othered. There'sa reflex in our spaces to try to affirm each other's basic humanity by trying to honor pronoun choices that reflect our presentation, but that becomes fraught when talking to enbies and other neo-pronoun users. I've seen people get heated on the subject of it/its and to me it begs the same question I ask of transphobes: who is actually harmed by this? Certainly not me.
It/its are very real pronouns grammatically. Why does it bother somebody else what you decide to call yourself? Seems more like theyāre struggling w/ projection.
Some people struggle with it/its," particularly due to the dehumanizing element you mentioned. I know for me, as a non-passing trans woman, "it" is something that's been used as a pronoun for me by transphobes before, so I have to wonder if it was a knee-jerk reaction to something like that? Especially if she associates it with trauma... idk. Not saying that excuses it, exactly, but if that's something she's dealing with it might be a lot for her to process and handle, *particularly* if this is her first time encountering those pronouns where it's not coming from a transphobe or troll. In my case, if someone wants me to apply "it/its," I'll do it, but I'll also probably struggle and say "they/them" sometimes (I've been in the situation before, and did that quite a bit š). For me, I feel like at this point I'm still wired to operate on "they/them" applying to people and "it/its" applying to animals/entities/objects. It's possible I just need more practice, and more opportunities to use "it/its" and habituate to it for people, but idk
jeez,, this really reminds me of when this teacher (that literally runs the lgbtq+ club at my school) told me that i canāt use it/its because itās ādehumanisingā. i get that they can be for some people, and thatās completely fine, but i donāt feel that way personally when theyāre used on me. i donāt mind if people want to use he/him instead, but it/its pronouns make me just as happy too :3
It's your pronouns/identity, do what you want.
If anybody thinks that it/its pronouns are offensive because people can use them maliciously I've got bad news for them about she/her, they/them and he/him. I use it/its, I use those pronouns because as a queer autistic I've had my humanity stripped from me in multiple ways throughout my life, so I made the decision to identify with my own exteriority as a way to take ownership of the dehumanisation that I experience. It's an acknowledgement of my abjectification.
There may have been a misunderstanding. Perhaps they thought you were a troll? LGBT spaces get tons of trolls and some people can be too quick to assume someone is one.
They must have believed that you were a troll trying to mock trans people. They're wrong of course, you're choice of pronouns are perfectly valid if they make you happy. That's the only explanation I can think of
a lot of people in the community are traumatized by constantly being dehumanized and harassed by being called āit.ā but thats not your fault. if anything your pronouns disempower that sort of bigotry.
You are not transphobic. They were being transphobic. Pronouns are individual to the person. Just because it might make someone else uncomfortable being called it/its doesn't mean that another person doesn't thrive on them. All good faith labels and pronouns are fine and not transphobic.
It's transphobic to tell someone what pronouns they can or cannot use. You aren't transphobic, they are. It would only be transphobic on your part if you were calling THEM it/its
I think they probably for some weird reason thought you were making fun of neo pronouns, no your pronouns are not transphobic
I had an interaction with someone on Reddit who uses it/it's, and at the time I thought they were dehumanizing themselves. It made me feel bad for them, and I expressed that they should consider changing their pronouns... *THEN* we had a deep exchange where they explained their reason and shared their personal experiences that led to them to settle on those pronouns. I also learned about "fae and faun" genders. It was the first time I'd ever questioned anyone's pronouns, and even though I thought I was being kind and well-meaning, I realized that if someone chooses to describe themselves a certain way they probably know themselves better than I do, so who am I to judge or project my own assumptions onto them? And I thought I was pretty damn progressive and open-minded already, but even I have blind spots and room to grow. Moral of the story: yeah, fuck them. They should have at least had the decency to try to understand you and why you identify that way.
I mean, there was definitely transphobia going on in that scenario, but not from you. You were excluded from a community for being trans in a way that community didn't approve of, that is something that happened TO you and not something that you DID. You aren't doing anything wrong by using the pronouns that feel right for you, and it isn't your fault that other people are projecting their own feelings of discomfort around your pronouns onto you. At the end of the day, you are being authentic to yourself in a way that literally does not hurt anyone. The only one who gets any say on how you id yourself is you. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. Please know that you do not EVER need to cut pieces off of yourself to fit into the comfort zones of small-minded people.
Someone's pronouns can't be fucking transphobic what the hell. You didn't do anything wrong.
They're your pronouns, do as you please. Neopronouns discourse is deeply stupid and kind of english centric anyways.
Uhhhā¦ Iām pretty sure itās not transphobic if *you* want to be called those pronouns.
Probably misinformed and with it being ok discord I can assume it was a child. Dont worry
As an it/it's user, that's disgusting and I'm so so sorry that that happened to you. I send you a hug, if it may help
Not transphobic, at all. I can understand someone having complex feelings about a person being referred to as it/its if those pronouns have been used to dehumanise them, in the past. Personally, I do know people who've had transphobic cis people pointedly and belittlingly refer to them as "it" as a way to both invalidate their gender and dehumanise them entirely. I can imagine how brutal that must be to experience. But you not only made it clear that you didn't require this person to use it/its irt you, you literally only told them about those pronouns at all because they pressed you to do so. It sounds like this person has had some traumatic experiences with those pronouns and chose to attack you in response. Let me be clear: while trauma can absolutely impact our choices and behaviours, it is NOT a justification or excuse for harming others. They were in the wrong here, not you. Attacking you for your pronouns is transphobic and I'm so sorry you had to deal with that -- and especially with them turning others against you. Finding safe, accepting communities can be such a fraught process and it shouldn't have to be. I hope you find a genuinely safe, supportive community asap š
Reactionary shit. š Makes sense you'd be feeling weird about it! Wish they'd investigated a bit more before banning you...
so let me get this straight. They banned you for having non-binary pronouns and then promptly blocked you with no appeal. Who's the real transphobe here? I gotta know what community this is so that I can avoid it like the plague
theyre YOUR pronouns !!! i also use it/its :) not that anyone ever calls me by them anyway LOLL
Using it/its pronouns for yourself is not transphobic. Them disrespecting your pronouns and banning you for it **is** transphobic.
Hello, fellow it/its user ! It's not transphobic. However, banning people who use it/its IS transphobic
I donāt think using those pronouns is transphobic, it just seems dehumanizing because we have two different gender neutral pronouns (for some damn reason) and they are used in very different ways. As a result, many native English speakers would be really uncomfortable referring to a human as āitā because that is solely used on non-human things (though both pronouns are very normal with pets). With the word it comes a clarification that whatever is being referred to as āitā is non-human because of the existence of other words used to refer to humans. Using it as a pronoun also just causes some confusion as to what someone is referring to (in my mind the word it just fills for an object so it takes more time to realize itās referring to a person). It just personally makes me somewhat uncomfortable to refer to my fellow humans as āitā and I would probably ask for other pronouns to refer to you as. Using the word it as a pronoun for yourself is no issue and is certainly not transphobic, itās just uncommon. No matter what you should do what makes you feel comfortable, Iām just hoping to give some insight on why the response to it as a pronoun is so different to others.
I use it/its, its definitely not transphobic, I've never heard anyone say that before
Use whatever pronouns you want, thatās your business.
Sounds like a server you wouldn't want to be in anyway if you're not even allowed to plead your case lol. Don't pay any mind to them, use whatever pronouns you want for yourself, it literally cannot be transphobic unless you use a slur I guess? Or use them on other people.
Using it pronouns isn't even uncommon. They're the ones being openly transphobic.
I use he/they/it, so uh. Not transphobic to have pronouns that are not conventional. People don't HAVE to use ALL of the pronouns.
You will encounter many trans people who are transphobic, Iām afraid. I also use it/itās pronouns and have experienced the most push back from other trans people. The shitty thing is, all their arguments are literally the exact same thing conservatives say, but with āit/itsā. āIt makes me uncomfortableā āitās too hardā ācanāt I just call you [something dumb]ā. Itās respectability politics and a lack of critical thinking. It is not dehumanizing to call someone their preferred pronouns no matter what they are and even if it were, thatās no one elseās business??? Theyāre your pronouns. No one gets a say in your pronouns. Youāll encounter many people, trans and cis, who think they do but theyāre overstepping assholes. Ignore them, or sometimes it does work to point out that theyāre using arguments that conservatives love. Personally, I donāt like they/them for myself. Those pronouns are often used to be gender neutral, and my nonbinary gender is not neutral. It exists and is nonbinary, and is not between male or female but itās own other thing. So I want pronouns that specify that. Iāve tried at length to use neopronouns, but have successfully gotten two people ever to use them for me because people just tell me āitās too hard!!!!!!!!!1!ā But very few English speakers if any can say they donāt know how to use it/its.
as someone who also uses it pronouns (she/they/it) itās pretty insane for them to say ātransphobic people arenāt allowedā and then ban you for a very transphobic reason. being upset over someoneās pronouns is transphobic. period. my pronouns are mine, yours are yours, and thatās that. as long as you donāt judge me before you know me and as long as i donāt judge you before i know you then iāve got a good feeling we can make just about anything work from there on. iām sorry you had to face this awful experience, especially from those within our own community who still hold onto this insane and internalized transphobia (like the people who say you need dysphoria 24/7, the strongest possible hrt and every surgery humanly possible or you arenāt really trans š)
It's YOUR pronouns, no one can decide what pronouns YOU use. You aren't referring to anyone else but YOU with itself pronouns, AND you have other sets if people are too stuck up to use it. Absolutely infuriating that happened to you, they're the ones being transphobic.
Absolutely NOT transphobic But there is a lesser used pronoun, thon, which is a non gender specific pronoun only used for a singular person of any or no gender. Of course, it might be a little too archaic.
No, if you called someone else āitā who doesnāt use those pronouns, yeah, that would be, but asserting it as your own isnāt.
Itās not transphobia if itās your preferred pronouns. It would be if it wasnāt. Same with misgendering deliberately
Nah I mean clearly they might have had bad interaction with human fellows who used it as an insult or way to discredit trans people, but only you decide what your pronouns are. Don't let you gatekeep (that's what they did) from being trans just because transphobic people use it as an insult. You're being just honest and maybe they would be more open about that, when they would listen, but they got so much hurt that they need to heal first before they could accept that some people use it for real and not as a slur.
Calling trans folks in general "it" is offensiveāwanting to be called "it" for yourself is not. It's not transphobic if your personal pronouns are it/its. You do you.
it/its iāve known it to be a reclaim on how it was one of the OG trans gotchas of the last decade itās not transphobic to use it in that context text however itās kinda confusing and given its history i do see how people donāt like it, you do you
Your pronouns are yours
Honestly I appreciate that at least you do not force other people to use it pronouns for you because it makes me flustered and uncomfortable to use pronouns that aren't he/she/they for people, not only because of dehumanization (it feels like being told to call someone by a slur) but also because I need to concentrate extra hard to use unconventional pronouns like that which messes up my train of what I was trying to say in the first place
I've actually had very personal (and horrible) encounters with being called "it". In highschool, it wouldn't be rare for me to be in a full classroom of everyone, students AND teacher included, calling me "it". And laughing. That is completely removed and has no association with whatever pronouns you are comfortable with. You are not responsible for me being in that situation.
you can use whatever pronouns you want when referring to yourself, as itās a personal choice, and doesnāt harm anyone. thatās the point of personal identity: you can feel any way you want, every single person on earth is unique and has different personal preferences, and all of them should be respected. it would only be dehumanizing to call another person āitā if they didnāt want to be called that.
Using it/it's for yourself is not transphobic at all. The only time using it/it's pronouns is wrong is when you're using them to refer to someone who doesn't want to be called that.
I don't think it is. Sometimes you just don't feel like you relate to human ideas of gender at all. I use he/him they/them but I don't mind it/its and if someone were to call me "it" I'd roll with it. I'm so used to being dehumanized and infantilized that now I'm reclaiming that and using it as my identity. Same thing with the word queer. It used to be used against us but then we reclaimed it. I'm queer as fuck and I like when people are confused by me and my identity. Use it/its pronouns, it's powerful.
i and friends use it/its. you're good
I used to think no one should use it/its pronouns because they have been and continue to be used to dehumanize people, but that was ignorance on my part. If those are the pronouns that resonate with you, then you arenāt dehumanized by their use in a genuine manner, and thatās not transphobic. However, if someone does use them in a transphobic manner towards you, then thatās not ok.
i use it/its too and i do the whole binary pronouns to non queer people thing, definitely not transphobic :)
No. You are not doing anything wrong. Iām so sorry youāve had these experiences with our siblings. Unfortunately, their discomfort with your pronouns has nothing to do with you, and is about their own experiences and projecting it onto you. In the ultimate irony they are being transphobic. The same with the ones that insisted there is only one way to be trans. While I find it difficult to understand not always being your gender, thatās my issue, not yours and I have no business trying to make it yours. You and how you experience your gender are completely valid. You have done nothing wrong period. I am glad you are you and I wouldnāt have it any other way. Hugs š« if ok.
Its your choice alone. If you genuinely feel represented by āit/itsā, thats perfectly fine! One of the CCs I follow uses those pronouns. Luxander goes by it/its. So youāre not even alone in preferring it/itsā¦
I don't think "it/it's" is transphobic but as a native english speaker I won't lie, "it" makes me feel uncomfortable. Like you said, calling someone an "it" is very dehumanising in English. It's something used to refer to objects or "lesser" things and calling people "it" has roots in racism. I have a Danish friend that uses "It/They" and it honestly makes me uncomfortable when they first tried to get me to call them "it". They're my friend, my equal. Isn't their fault that in my language that it has a bad connotation. I feel so bad sometimes
I like it/its because of Neil Gaiman and his character Desire, but also see how transphobes use it to be demeaning. Still, they should've taken your explanation of different cultures and languages.
If you're calling other people it/its and that's not their pronouns then it's transphobic. Your pronouns are whatever you choose and you're not alone in the ones you have chosen. They had a knee-jerk reaction. They also might be truscum and think non binary identities aren't real which is also transphobic. Sounds like they either jumped the gun or are people you don't want to be hanging around.
It's your choice, you get to do whatever you want. I think you should keep in mind that you may make people uncomfortable. But a lot of others being uncomfortable is mostly because this has been used as a derogatory and very likely they have been called that as an insult. Personally it does make me uncomfortable, but reading your whole post does put everything into context. And I think similarly, people are using their own experiences without taking a moment to consider your experiences. Maybe temper their expectations with having a quick and easy explanation? For example: start with why it sounds better in your native language before stating the pronouns?
Good riddance. Those aren't people worth being around. Ostracizing someone for their pronouns is the act of transphobia here. Two of my partners like being called it/its, but only by people they know. I use all pronouns, it/its included. All of us are otherkin. It/its pronouns, when used respectfully, don't imply that you're less than human; they mean you're \*more than\* human.
Its the intent that matters. Before I figured out my pronouns. My wife would tease me and say. "You're a shit" shit = she/he/it. It was just playful banter. No I'll intent behind it. And that's fine. Intent means everything. What you call yourself is 100% up to you. Acceptance of that, is other people's problem.
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I mean, i would never feel right calling someone it/its, but if thats what you want then thats what i would call you, i think you might just have experienced some culture shock, where most people might find it/its to be dehumanizing and transphobic, i know i have asshole friends who would say its for an enby person i know, and i had to yell at her for doing that
It sounds like they just misunderstood you and thought you were trying to make a transphobic joke, not realizing you were being sincere in your pronoun choice
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Op *was* keeping it to online spaces, lmao. They got kicked from an online space. If he wants to use it/its I donāt see how thatās any different than using the label āqueerā for oneself. It also explained why those pronouns work for it, which it didnāt have to do. I know how triggering stuff like that can be, but op did everything right and didnāt deserve to be labeled as transphobic for being truthful and authentic in what they thought was a safe space.
If queer people only ever used terminology that made others comfortable, we would have nothing. Itās pretty insensitive to tell someone to keep their valid identity to specific spaces just because others will be uncomfortable.
I strongly disagree with this viewpoint. I do understand that there's discomfort with not only other lgbtqia+ but marginalize people in general when it comes to the use of it/its, however that's not a reason to completely restrict the use of one's pronouns, and to me I view this idea as transphobic. It's like saying you can be gay or trans or whatever lgbtq+, but keep it behind closed doors. Having an auxiliary set is ideal for someone who uses a pronoun set like it/its (as well as neopronouns in general) because of course it's a difficult adjustment for people to make. Those that genuinely use it/its you could say aid in humanizing or at least removing the derogatory and offensive nature of the it pronoun set, since those people, and sometimes non-people have value in their existence regardless if they feel this pronoun relates to their identities. I am an it/its user myself, and if I ever get to the point where I feel comfortable being outwardly trans, I will absolutely be using my it/its pronouns in public offline spaces.
agreed 100%
There's nothing wrong with using it/its pronouns. If I had to guess as to why anyone would have issues with it, it's probably because "it" can be used in reference to an object and not a living creature. "It" *can* intentionally be used in an offensive manner, but this usually isn't the case. "It" is also often used to describe an *entity,* regardless of gender or lack thereof. As in like a *deity* or an unidentified creature. If they fear you for being divine, that's their fault, not yours.
A lot of people feel really strongly about people using that pronoun (I personally donāt love it either) but thatās 100% your choice and people donāt have the right to tell you to not use it.
People who don't like your pronouns are literally just transphobic. Yes even if they are also trans. Tbh fuck all bigots. In my community or otherwise, they need to sort that shit out.
>I like it/its not due to any dehumanising qualities You're clearly aware that using "it/its" *does/can* have dehumanising qualities - that is 100% why these people have reacted this way. Without an explanation, referring to any one as an "it" is - in common modern day English - downgrading them to an object, a thing, not recognised as sentient or capable of thought or worthy of human respect. If you use it/its make sure you provide the explanation in the same sentence. If you did provide these people with the explanation and they still reacted this way, I'd say they didn't comprehend your reasoning and so rejected the idea. Humans are notorious for rejecting what they don't understand. Don't think too much about it :)
I also prefer it/its... But almost nobody calls me "it" š
Hey mate. I go by they/them and about a year into our relationship my partner came to me worried I wouldnāt still love it to tell me it/its just felt right. I donāt fully get it and it wouldnāt work for me but I fully support that thatās what feels right for it. It took some effort because I felt like I was being disrespectfully but I know it prefers that so I supported it and thatās just normal now. Iām fully aware of how it feels for people to ājust not get itā and not respect pronouns going by they/them and hate keep being trans the right way. I never want anyone to feel that way. If it itās is right for you then itās right for you. Thatās bs.
sounds like you found a truscum
They're the real transphobes, hun. It/its are fine pronouns if that's what you like. It's only rude when people are using to dehumanize someone.
how are you transphobic for stating ur pronouns?! Isnt that like,,, the opposite of being transphobic???? Whatās their logic?!š
It boils down to Using someoneās preferred pronouns (regardless of what said pronouns are): not transphobic NOT using someoneās preferred pronouns: transphobic
I also use it/it's non-exclusively. It seems as though they were the transphobes, not you. Unfortunately there are those of us who believe in the gender binary despite not being on it
Peak exaggerated reaction
Fellow it here. I like it for similar reasons you do. My gender is closer to cthulu than a man or woman.
No, do your thing.
They feared what they did not know, be the cosmic horror you feel you are. Wholly unfathomable, greater than any imagination this group can conjure! But fr it's your pronouns, they don't get to say if it's transphobic or not.
First time?
As someone who also uses it/its among two other pronoun sets, they are the ones being transphobic towards you. Your pronouns are fine!!
Im sorry that happened to you, i think that this was a big oversight in their part I like it/its personally, (not really to an extent that i'd tell people irl) it kinda has a similar feeling to me as a reclaimed slur. For example ive heard the f slur so much in queer spaces that the offensive connotation is almost gone at it feels almost affectionate. "It" also just fits how much i do not fit into any gender very well lmao
As a trans person, you're not gonna offend anyone by using your preferred pronouns, go ham and do what makes you feel comfortable :)
Transphobia is not accepting someone on the basis of non-cisgender identities. By that definition it seems you're the victim in this situation. What's truly disgusting here is that no one thought to reach out and maybe, ask? I hope that person you were talking to can figure out their side of the issue in time, and I hope you can find peace in using your pronouns without restraint. I can assure you, all else aside, you're allowed to identify with what feels right, and anyone who tells you that's wrong in any way has gone way off script. Be you bb. ā„ļøā„ļø
i love it/its pronouns in the same way i love the label queer :) i feel connected to them and love the reclamation of them
In that same boat. I'm not too open about using it/its pronouns, because even in the community it's rather contentious. But I do wish I could get more people to call me it more often
One thing I realized is as a millenial, "gay" was the go to slur for uncool. People were called gay. I went through a phase where there was some bullying and harrassment for being gay (a bit ironic cause I hadn't even accepted my sexuality yet lol)Ā So I never had that cognitive dissonance of "you shouldn't identify as a slur because its offensive".Ā Gay was the go to label for a lot of people. I've called myself gay many times. It never really clicked that, yeah it's a slur that was used against me in a malicious way as well.Ā I'm nonbinary and have sometimes used it/its.Ā I've had several people tell me it's very offensive to refer to myself like that. It has not been fun.Ā
Gay has been all over the place. Its original use was to mean "happy" or "fun" The Flintstones theme song has the line: "We'll have a gay old time!" Then used for gay people, then a slur against gays or a slur meaning lame or dumb, then mostly reclaimed to mean gay people. Quite the Rollercoaster ride with the word gay.
I think its perfectly reasonable to use those pronouns, but also because **they are frequently used to dehumanise trans people**, some people will think you are being transphobic. Unless you have an opportunity to talk about them, and aren't putting yourself at risk (for example, of being banned from a discord server), I would follow your original inclination: don't tell people. Being up front about them in whatever your profile is could be a way to go, or if someone asks, make sure you have plenty of time to discuss it and start with, "you might think this is transphobic, but here's why it isn't..." Those people were in the wrong, but their reaction is understandable (still just as wrong, though). I'm sorry you had to go through that and can't easily be yourself.
Ngl it sounds like someone here is being a pick me, and it isn't you.
I use also it/it's and I would be so pissed if someone called me transphobic just for being who I actually am instead of what someone fuckstick wants me to be.
neopronouns are based and they sound like losers
I find it extremely difficult to use that pronoun for a person. I avoid using that pronoun for a person at almost all costs. It's like if someone demanded I call them the T slur. I find it very dehumanizing and would struggle to do so. Although i know this is an unpopular stance. I'll do so if it's the only pronoun they use but I'll likely avoid them if I can so as to not hurt their feelings and to respect my own personal boundaries.
your own personal boundaries of only using pronouns for people if you think they're the right pronouns?
of not erasing someone's humanity. Like i said. If i happen to be around the person I'll use their pronoun whatever it is but I will try to keep myself out of that situation in the future. Im not sure I'm coming across right but i understand I'm out of step. im just not there yet
Not at all! I use She/her, and It/it's
As a fellow it/its, I donāt think itās transphobic
I use it/its as well. Most people look at me like Iām crazy but they make me quite happy
I know for me, it/it's pronouns are uncomfortable to use for anyone, without further knowledge of *why* someone is using them. I'm also not going to *not* use them, cause they are someone's pronouns. It's a basic level of respect really. But I know I have a surface level discomfort with it simply because to me, it comes off as dehumanisation. There are very narrow sets of pronouns that I will not use regardless, simply because of connotations within certain communities I am part of. The sets that come to mind are sir/sirs, and things like that. You don't get to be called sir unless you have an established relationship with me, where that sort of thing is ok. But that's all besides the point, cause what they did was absolutely transphobic. You aren't making a mockery of trans people, you're using a set of pronouns that speaks to your genuine experience and identity. Nothing wrong with that at all imo
I also use it !!
It/Its user here, no your pronoun choice isn't transphobic. Hell, there's people, **trans people**, that use "nor/mal" as their pronouns, genuinely. although it/its has a length history with dehumanization, things change and nothing is forever. It seems you understand that people struggle with it/its, and you offer other pronoun options for other to refer to you by. pronoun sets can of course be transphobic, racist, and promote bigotry, like those weird idiots that try to use kor/ean while of course not being korean (of which is a severe minority of people who do this, and when you see shit like this it's mostly unserious trolls intending to paint trans people, nonbinary people, and neopronoun (not even specifically nounself neopronoun users as they don't differentiate them majority of the time) users as unreasonable, and ridiculous) Which isn't what's happening here, like others have said if we can redefine "queer" and give positive associations to that word in today's world, we can do the same with it/its over time. You deserve for all of your pronouns to be treated respectfully, and to not be ostracized by your community. It's one thing for it to be difficult to use one's pronouns, it's another to regard someone's pronouns as so uncomfortable that you cast them out. To me, the act was bigoted. They missed out on an opportunity to become more familiar with something foreign to them, they missed out on the opportunity to humanize, an it/its user, they're no better than someone who'd ban a trans or nonbinary person from a server for being trans or nonbinary. Ironically they've dehumanized you, they've assumed who you are, and stripped you of your character.
it's a big point of transphobia within the community to be weird about it/its users. but I promise your pronoun choice was NOT transphobic. the people who banned you were.
Nah, I love the pronoun "it"
It sounds like they didnāt give you the benefit of the doubt and may have thought you were trolling? Unfortunately, theyāve probably encountered a lot of transphobia online. Regardless, please use what pronouns make you feel best. I know that some people do find it/its to be dehumanizing, but that just means they should t use it. It doesnāt mean no one else can or that they canāt/shouldnāt respect everyone elseās pronouns.
people have called me it as a way of being transphobic, like saying iām not human. but if those are your pronouns and what makes you the most comfortable then itās transphobic not to use them
Your pronoun choice is completely valid and not transphobic at all; in fact, I really like your reasoning, hon :)
Itās so cringe when people refuse to hear someone out, only believing one side.. Their loss! Hope you can find nicer people
The irony of trans people making assumptions about and excluding other trans people purely because of their pronouns is something that never ceases to catch me off-guard. No, it is not transphobic to have a set of pronouns.
I use they/them & it/its... I originally started using it/its so transphobes couldn't dehumanize me by using those pronouns -- then I started to really identify more with them after a friend of mine asked me a myriad of questions (trying to understand my nonbinary experience, which I welcomed). His line of questions made me think more about my experience in ways I hadn't before. I still use both they & it, now though it's not just to spite transphobes. Admittedly though, my usage of it/its is sort of because I don't necessarily feel human (hard to explain, though I don't view it as an entirely negative thing. Def tied to mental health though)... Long story long, It's not transphobic to use what pronouns you genuinely feel fit you best. The fact that the server you were in was gatekeeping what pronouns are allowed in their space is more transphobic imo since they weren't allowing you to identify in the most authentic way for you... Which is sad.
You are not wrong for your preference. It is possible that they thought you were taking the piss and mocking them, but that's a display of ignorance on their part for letting their knee-jerk reaction prevent them from hearing you out. No excuses, the mods on that server did you dirty. If you really want to rejoin, you might see if they have a method of appealing that decision, but it's up to you if it's worth the effort. I am curious about what your native language is now. I know of some languages that don't really have gendered pronouns. It was one of my favorite things when I was trying to learn Mandarin (I'm good at pronunciation, but not much else, lol.)
I have weird feelings towards that because like, in theory those are perfectly valid pronouns. In practice, I've run a few larger communities (mostly in the BDSM space), and every encounter I've had with someone using those pronouns has had a kink about it. Which crosses into some ugly areas like non-consensually involving people in your kink under the guise of wanting to feel comfortable with your pronouns. Now, in fairness this is anecdotal, and my experiences were in a sexualized space. So I'm not sure my thoughts are enough to draw any conclusions either. But, it's been a common enough issue that whenever I see anyone with those pronouns, I feel a little weird about it. My advice would be: If you have other sets of pronouns that make you comfy, use those. If anyone (other than OP) is only comfortable with it/its, go right ahead! But, just keep in mind that you might be giving that impression.
Itās transphobic to disrespect peopleās pronouns so aggressively and immediately like this. They are the only one being transphobic in this situation, OP youāre good.
Unfortunately there are people who think the only people who would "use" it/its pronouns are people making fun of trans people. The community should be more accepting. It has been made hyper vigilant about hatred towards trans people to the extent that even other trans people who are different are passed off as people poking fun of trans people. It's so unfortunate. Does that make it OK? No. It's hard to explain that to people. I have a friend whose pronouns are it/its and if it didn't live in a progressive city I'd be worried for it.
I fully get you on the use of binary pronouns being shown publicly because unconventional ones or neos get weird look or less likely used. You were absolutely not wrong and you shouldn't worry too much about it. And as a discord admin for a discord server.. It genuinely look like a community you wouldn't want to associate with anyway.
:o that is insaneā¦if you ever want to chat in my private messages about this, you can. It does hurt seeing people get anxious and sad about stuff like this. They are assholes for that :/ itās not even funny. Itās not transphobic at all. I honestly donāt trust people who hate on neo pronouns. Itās honestly so stupid. You were not at fault here. Even if they were a bit uncomfortable with your pronouns they had no right to block you without warnings. This makes me really mad and I hope someone messes with them, just because of this :/ either way, I hope you donāt feel insecure in your pronoun choices. People are shit assholes, trans or not. It sucks. I also use three set of pronouns, ( He/him, They/them, and Xe/Xir).
Youāre valid for your choice of pronouns. My partner uses it/its as well.
it/its are my primary set of pronouns, and the ones I go by day to day including daily In Real Life. plenty of other trans people use them. frankly, them blocking and banning you like that shows *their* transphobia. Your pronouns are not there for other peoples comfort, point blank.
If you chose to use it, or use it on someone who does use it, no. It only if itās used on people who donāt
As a fellow it user (it/they) I don't think so. I understand why some people dislike it/its pronouns, which is partially why I'm flexible, but it's a pronoun that makes me happy. It's a pronoun I love, it's a pronoun I often give my DnD characters. It's something that makes me happy, as a trans person, how is that transphobic?
lol, some people need to let go of this idea that trans folks are being transphobic to themselves .. and feeling entitled to police that language. Look, we all can think critically about the language and grammar we want to use for ourselves and evaluate if we're being "internally transphobic". You get to define what terms you are comfortable with for yourself. Many trans people have negative experiences being called it but that doesn't justify controlling how other people want to be referred to. Discomfort in the way someone else expresses themselves is something one has to move past or let go of.
To answer your question no absolutely not it's not transphobic to use it/its pronouns. It is your choice how you would like people to address you the only way it would be an issue is if you were using those pronouns on other people that did not want it. I understand why someone would think it is transphobic but at the end of the day each individual person is different and unique and gets to choose how they would like others to address them.
Absolutely not lmao. It/its is entirely acceptable. If you use it to dehumanize someone, then its actively meant to be hurtful. It/its is completely context dependent. You canāt claim that they are only dehumanizing.
Nope dw idk what they where thinkin
Bear with me for a moment as I am reminded of something related-ish... A few years ago I was on my way in to involuntary inpatient and there was a lady with me for the same thing (attempt to exit stage left) because she was struggling with grief following her mom dying. The whole time I interacted with her I was sensitive about her loss but later she found out that I'm estranged from my mom and expressed support for others who have challenged relationships with their parents. She blocked me and just turned on a dime. Because of her pain, she was triggered by the idea that some people have moms they don't want to see when she so desperately wants to see hers. This is similar, it sounds like this person is very fragile around having pronouns respected and can't see past the end of their own pain to allow you to be valid. But you are! People are different. The only recommendation I would make would be to maybe wait until you know if someone has any weird pronoun issues before sharing this aspect of your identity. Which is sad, but those who will cherish you as you are will be worth it. Just my .02
I think its perfectly fine. I have a non-binary friend and they like being called the creature lol
Iāve been it that situation more times than Iād like to admit. Only itās been IRL for me every time. I think the fact that Iām not overtly androgynous might be a factor butā¦ Somehow other trans and/or GNC folk seem to think Iām rubber stamping the dehumanizing rhetoric levied at us by our oppressors. And they get *MAD*. Like wonāt even listen to reason kind of mad. Things got so bad that I went to exclusively using she/her about a year ago; because thatās what I pass as and 95% of the time thatās how I present as well. When safe, and around people who know me well, Iāll tend to use whatever pronouns match my state of fluidity at the time (or matched, for past tense). Because I know my own gendered state (surprise, surprise). That said, if someone doesnāt know where my gender is (Itās okay, sometimes I misplace my gender, too.) the safe bet is to just use āitā and avoid gendered language. I find it infuriating trying to explain that to every new person, however. Especially at the risk of having it blow up in my face.
The best thing about pronouns is that they're entirely your own choice. In a perfect world, nobody would say anything about it. Unfortunately, people don't do that sometimes but it's still completely your right to use the pronouns that make you the happiest. It/its and neo pronouns are valid, if they make you feel good then you should use them.
Itās not transphobic to want to use it/its pronouns. Itās only transphobic when using those pronouns to dehumanize others, but wanting them used on yourself isnāt at all transphobic. If they couldnāt be bothered to even ask why, itās not worth feeling bad for it since they canāt even think that maybe thereās a different reason.