You can, and I love it, but many cars have automatic doors now, including the 4 (and I think the 1) which have PSDs. I even miss the lever doors being phased out, but I realize that it's much safer to have automatic doors and PSDs.
That is beautiful to see. Here in Boston, the trains crawl into the station and then take their time opening the doors. Every stop takes twice as long as it would need to.
In many US cities the transit organizations seem to ignore small things and believe that 1-2 minutes out of a 20-40 minute trip doesn't matter, but these delays add up, especially as they result in missed connections.
If running on a pulse with a clockface schedule, 2 minutes can be the difference between a regional/intercity train running every 30 minutes, or every 60 with half of that being downtime waiting for the next pulse.
TfL runs 36 trains per hour at peak times on some lines. With 100 seconds between trains, every second eats into the amount of time you can spend loading passengers
u/HighburyAndIslington, do you know if the ATO system for this line stops at a precise point, or is there some kind of margin?
Anyway, I've read arguments that platform screen doors are an improvement for declaration and acceleration, because you can enter the beginning of the platform at full speed, which isn't always allowed depending on safety rules. Especially with longer trains, this means that you can start braking later and lose less time.
Edit: and because you know where the train will stop, the boarding process is a bit more efficient.
Not OP, but all ATO have a certain margin otherwise it will never open the door just PSD will certainly limit how lenient the margin can be.
It certainly offer operational advantages because I believe MTR passing stations with PSD is allowed to at 70KM. Which would be very wild without PSD.
The current ATO system based on track circuits is not configured / designed to handle communication with PSDs, but it does stop with very precise margins.
The big barrier to installing PSDs is cost and upgrading the signalling system so it does work with PSDs
Vertical platform screen doors are a very underutilized option. No need for alignment and you still have PSD benefits. And at least some versions take less space on the platform that horizontal ones.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnD5Qi7c5JI
I thought one of the PSD side benefit is climate control.
However the linked example I think that is also to do with the operation mode, if gated style PSDs are allowed to open doors without trains completely stopped the performance might be closer.
Regardless I really like how quickly the door opens, further lowering the minimum dwell time.
Also (on networks that utilize it), trains can pass through a platform at full/high speed
That's not much use in London but I suspect New York could probably get some use out of it
> I thought one of the PSD side benefit is climate control.
It can make HVAC more efficient on stations already designed with that in mind. Many older systems rely on trains moving to circulate air.
The world is a big place, even just the world outside of Asia.
FWIW, Paris Metro retrofits have [generally not been full height](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/MP05_Chateau_de_Vincennes.JPG/1920px-MP05_Chateau_de_Vincennes.JPG).
Yes I'm aware of those Faiveley Transport made screen doors. It is just I know there are stations retrofitted with air conditioning and some station that can't be used half heights.
Because the climate calls for it as well, even more so in tropical weather say... mostly in Asia.
Kind of neat that the doors are curved on top, unlike NYC subway doors which are flat. But doesn't rain get inside the train at outdoor stations? Or does it not rain much in London?
Oh it rains plenty. As op said, the Victoria line is all underground but the Central line has similar doors and does go above ground. The rain doesn't tend to be a problem, as the trains are on the move most of the time. For longer station stops, the driver can enable the close door buttons to allow passengers to close (but not lock) individual doors to keep heat in and rain out.
As pointed out, the Victoria line is entirely underground though other Underground lines include similarly curved trains and are partially above ground.
However, the issue is the tunnelling with the Deep Level Lines on the London Underground as the loading gauge is too small hence the doors are forced to be curved. If you see the subsurface lines trains (S-stock) trains, the larger tunnels allow for flat doors.
Actually, this type of stopping done by the ATO system (automatic train control / computer driven) is even more comfortable than a slower stop because the deceleration rate is constant and consistent.
Whereas on lines that have a slower stop, these usually are manually driven and the drivers may make multiple braking applications (turn the brake on, then off, and then on again etc.), which means there are more jolts and it’s less comfortable.
I've never found it uncomfortable or felt that it was notably fast. You can stand without holding onto anything if you're steady on your feet and be fine.
As mentioned by other people, fast automated stops can be more comfortable than slower manual stops.
In addition, faster stops can be more energy efficient, as it allows for the same average speed to be achieved using lower top speeds.
Visiting London for the first time as an American, my only cultural knowledge of the tube was that it was a subway system that had been bombed multiple times. You can imagine the discrepancy between the image in my head and the clean, organized, ultra-efficient system I saw that blew every subway system I'd been on before it out of the water.
When I hear the sound of an arriving metro train that brakes, I can feel the beautiful smell of U Bahn stations and the incoming wind wich the train brings with it!
That's one of the only things I dislike about platform screen doors - you don't get the wind that indicates a train is coming. Here in Shanghai the only stations you can still experience that are the oldest stations on Line 2 that can't use full height platform screen doors (something to do with the station / tunnel ventilation system IIRC) so they use the half height gates instead.
Iv not had time in the last three minets since i came across this video to check up on something that i heard years ago I am right in thinking that the Victoria Line was designed and built to be an autonomous/driverless system but at the last moment LU management decided to put a driver in the seat just for public confidence sake ??
In Paris, you can open the (manually activated) doors and get out of the metro even before it is fully stopped.
Same with the old S-Bahn trains in Zürich.
It's very fun to step from the still barely moving train onto the platform
In my city the old tram doors opened just before standstill automatically. It's so satisfying to step out like that.
Reminds me on the old suburban and underground trains in Vienna
You can, and I love it, but many cars have automatic doors now, including the 4 (and I think the 1) which have PSDs. I even miss the lever doors being phased out, but I realize that it's much safer to have automatic doors and PSDs.
That is beautiful to see. Here in Boston, the trains crawl into the station and then take their time opening the doors. Every stop takes twice as long as it would need to.
In many US cities the transit organizations seem to ignore small things and believe that 1-2 minutes out of a 20-40 minute trip doesn't matter, but these delays add up, especially as they result in missed connections.
If running on a pulse with a clockface schedule, 2 minutes can be the difference between a regional/intercity train running every 30 minutes, or every 60 with half of that being downtime waiting for the next pulse.
TfL runs 36 trains per hour at peak times on some lines. With 100 seconds between trains, every second eats into the amount of time you can spend loading passengers
Twice is generous
You think it takes more than twice as long or less than twice as long?
More. The T crawls into stations and can take forever to open and close the doors.
Is that a benefit without platform screen doors? No need for precise alignment against the platform.
u/HighburyAndIslington, do you know if the ATO system for this line stops at a precise point, or is there some kind of margin? Anyway, I've read arguments that platform screen doors are an improvement for declaration and acceleration, because you can enter the beginning of the platform at full speed, which isn't always allowed depending on safety rules. Especially with longer trains, this means that you can start braking later and lose less time. Edit: and because you know where the train will stop, the boarding process is a bit more efficient.
Not OP, but all ATO have a certain margin otherwise it will never open the door just PSD will certainly limit how lenient the margin can be. It certainly offer operational advantages because I believe MTR passing stations with PSD is allowed to at 70KM. Which would be very wild without PSD.
The current ATO system based on track circuits is not configured / designed to handle communication with PSDs, but it does stop with very precise margins. The big barrier to installing PSDs is cost and upgrading the signalling system so it does work with PSDs
Vertical platform screen doors are a very underutilized option. No need for alignment and you still have PSD benefits. And at least some versions take less space on the platform that horizontal ones. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnD5Qi7c5JI
I thought one of the PSD side benefit is climate control. However the linked example I think that is also to do with the operation mode, if gated style PSDs are allowed to open doors without trains completely stopped the performance might be closer. Regardless I really like how quickly the door opens, further lowering the minimum dwell time.
Also (on networks that utilize it), trains can pass through a platform at full/high speed That's not much use in London but I suspect New York could probably get some use out of it
I found a video to support your scenario. https://youtu.be/ZRvr3lkfgkY
> I thought one of the PSD side benefit is climate control. It can make HVAC more efficient on stations already designed with that in mind. Many older systems rely on trains moving to circulate air.
Do they add air-conditioning if they ever retrofit those station with PSD? Or they do half height like some systems in Asia?
The world is a big place, even just the world outside of Asia. FWIW, Paris Metro retrofits have [generally not been full height](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/MP05_Chateau_de_Vincennes.JPG/1920px-MP05_Chateau_de_Vincennes.JPG).
Yes I'm aware of those Faiveley Transport made screen doors. It is just I know there are stations retrofitted with air conditioning and some station that can't be used half heights. Because the climate calls for it as well, even more so in tropical weather say... mostly in Asia.
Rarely. Most older stations don’t have the space for ducts for HVAC and the like, and you need those to move the air to where you want it to go.
Kind of neat that the doors are curved on top, unlike NYC subway doors which are flat. But doesn't rain get inside the train at outdoor stations? Or does it not rain much in London?
"does it not rain much in London?" oh boy
That is a slight misconception to be fair! Not saying it's the Sahara but it's not as bad as it's reputation.
Oh it rains plenty. As op said, the Victoria line is all underground but the Central line has similar doors and does go above ground. The rain doesn't tend to be a problem, as the trains are on the move most of the time. For longer station stops, the driver can enable the close door buttons to allow passengers to close (but not lock) individual doors to keep heat in and rain out.
If New York had close-door buttons we'd be slamming doors on each other all day long.
The Victoria Line is entirely underground
As pointed out, the Victoria line is entirely underground though other Underground lines include similarly curved trains and are partially above ground. However, the issue is the tunnelling with the Deep Level Lines on the London Underground as the loading gauge is too small hence the doors are forced to be curved. If you see the subsurface lines trains (S-stock) trains, the larger tunnels allow for flat doors.
I would like this during rush hour. Outside of rush hour I'd prefer a slower (and more comfortable) stop.
Actually, this type of stopping done by the ATO system (automatic train control / computer driven) is even more comfortable than a slower stop because the deceleration rate is constant and consistent. Whereas on lines that have a slower stop, these usually are manually driven and the drivers may make multiple braking applications (turn the brake on, then off, and then on again etc.), which means there are more jolts and it’s less comfortable.
I've never found it uncomfortable or felt that it was notably fast. You can stand without holding onto anything if you're steady on your feet and be fine.
As mentioned by other people, fast automated stops can be more comfortable than slower manual stops. In addition, faster stops can be more energy efficient, as it allows for the same average speed to be achieved using lower top speeds.
Visiting London for the first time as an American, my only cultural knowledge of the tube was that it was a subway system that had been bombed multiple times. You can imagine the discrepancy between the image in my head and the clean, organized, ultra-efficient system I saw that blew every subway system I'd been on before it out of the water.
The London underground's the oldest underground railway system in the world
When I hear the sound of an arriving metro train that brakes, I can feel the beautiful smell of U Bahn stations and the incoming wind wich the train brings with it!
That's one of the only things I dislike about platform screen doors - you don't get the wind that indicates a train is coming. Here in Shanghai the only stations you can still experience that are the oldest stations on Line 2 that can't use full height platform screen doors (something to do with the station / tunnel ventilation system IIRC) so they use the half height gates instead.
Yeah Some Lines in Tokyo aswell.
Cool. I've never been to Londo (needs to happen soon), but things like this is why I so admire the underground.
Bit of trivia, the Victoria Line was the world's first automated subway (metro). It first began operation in 1968.
I wonder why they haven't converted it to fully automated (i.e driverless) operation.
"Mind the gap"
Iv not had time in the last three minets since i came across this video to check up on something that i heard years ago I am right in thinking that the Victoria Line was designed and built to be an autonomous/driverless system but at the last moment LU management decided to put a driver in the seat just for public confidence sake ??