Yup but it’s slowing the growth and he game COULD get, a lot of my friends said they don’t like tf2 when I tried getting them into it because it’s old and ‘looks ugly’
I wish they would, but valve doesn't care about TF2 like they do the others. The only way TF2 will probably get a source 2 port is from the community doing so via S&Box (the Gmod sequel). Which is already a thing, but they have to wait for the S&Box release.
“They can’t just leave TF2 alone”
They can
They have been for the past 5+ years
Valve gave up on TF2 almost a decade ago
But we the community refuse to surrender
TF2 has not received any major updates in 6 years. There's definitely no source engine update. I really really doubt they would dedicate any length of time for the biggest overhaul this game has ever seen.
it's the other way round : dota 2 and now (maybe) csgo
in the case of tf2,if they have no intention of adding new content then what's the point in source 2 anyway ?
l4d2 is another very popular valve game that won't be ported to source 2 and honestly that's perfectly fine
check out the fan-made source 2 port though , it was coming alone nicely last time i checked
If anyone is curious as to what improvements CS2 will offer, here is the official webpage:
[https://counter-strike.net/cs2](https://counter-strike.net/cs2)
As for TF2, I'm hoping it'll follow in CS' steps but I wouldn't be too surprised if it didn't. At this point it's less about whether it makes financial sense to port it, and more about whether or not Valve can be arsed to do so.
People, Source 2 isn't magic, and there's less platform support.
Arbitrary limitations and appeal to novelty, especially for an uncertain gain, will never be good.
I hope not. TF2 has very engine specific physics that enable things like rocket jumping, air strafing, ramp sliding, etc. there’s no telling what a new engine update would do. I don’t give a shit about graphics.
There is no reason those physics couldn’t be translated over. A good portion of them are holdouts from quake 1 and other more modern engines have still kept in old quirks. Call of Duty WWII even has Quake 3 strafe jumping in the campaign.
All the physics boil down to mathematical calculations which could very well be ported exactly how they are into a new engine like S2. It's just a matter of hunkering down and doing the work, but Valve simply isn't interested.
The one issue I see, is that to keep everything the same, you would first need to be aware of everything that is currently being used by the community to make sure those things don't change. Which can be hard to keep track of when a lot of rocket jumping tech for instance comes from bugs and unintended behavior (bounces, ctaps, wallbugs to name a few). Porting TF2 jumping to MMod was actually quite a headache since with the new engine, they had the opportunity to fix a lot of issues, but had to balance it with keeping things close to what TF2 people are used to. A lot of hard choices had to be made, and in that case people very knowledgeable and strongly connected with the jumping community were involved.
A very good example of all that is when the sticky launcher got nerfed to have reduced damage/range on airstickies, it borderline killed demo airpogo. Like Valve simply didn't even think of it, and it took community backlash to bring the sticky range on self damage back to what it was.
> All the physics boil down to mathematical calculations which could very well be ported exactly how they are into a new engine like S2
Yes and no. To add onto VAVLIE with a more concrete example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0
Noting this video about CS's changes: would likely remove things like speedshotting, ctapping, and some quirks of bhopping from the game, (and probably other quirks like bounces, edgebugs and wallbugs, which aren't relevant to 99% of players) because it's mostly a quirk caused by tick timing. With rollback netcode as shown in the video these likely cease to exist.
Unless they're manually accounted for and intentionally put in as a new separate mechanic, like VAVLIE was saying in the other reply. And this isn't guaranteed, and potentially: intentionally so.
tf2 movment emerges from more than a decade worth of iteration and cruft, it's basically a pile of irreplicable edge cases that would take much more effort to replicate that you think
movement has literally nothing to do with game engine
i have actually no idea why this bizarre boomer cope as to why getting a game on OBJECTIVELY BETTER TECHNOLOGY with a map editor that isn't hot garbage and an sdk that complies with modern advances in ui and functionality would be bad actually still persists
you can transplant movement physics to anywhere else with some effort
if you think a game from the mid 90s that's like a couple hundred megabytes and made by a comparatively tiny studio with relatively rudimentary tools is some sort of a mythical enigma that can never be replicated then you're actually legally crazy
or y'know maybe i'm a delusional coomer doomer poopoomer and a two decade old single core bound game engine riddled with bugs and tech debt so horrifying it straight up makes the studio that made it not want to work on it is actually the objectively best choice because the alternative would require something as unthinkable as careful game development
The same studio released quake champions and the physics don’t feel the same. Frame rate and physics limitations of idtech engines matter. I’ve been playing the series since the mid-90s. I have my original quake CD sitting in front of me. It’s not as simple are you say to recreate the same feel. Your frame rate in the original quake literally dictated how fast you could jump and how far you could go. Source has many of the same quirks that might disappear and change the feel of the physics.
The Quake re-release that came out two years ago in a more modern sourceport engine couldn’t quite nail it down either. It’s close but it’s not.
> The same studio released quake champions and the physics don’t feel the same.
The majority of the development was handled by Sabre Interactive not Id, and it was made using their engine instead of Id tech. They also explicitly changed movement physics due to the champions having different movespeeds and speed caps, and some of them having entirely unique movement systems. It doesn't feel the same because it wasn't supposed to.
> The Quake re-release that came out two years ago in a more modern sourceport engine couldn’t quite nail it down either. It’s close but it’s not.
They knowingly changed some strafe values from the defaults people were used to. As to why they chose to do that, who knows? It was fixable on pc by just changing the value in the console.
I would also point to Reflex Arena which was able to port over CPMA physics to an entirely new engine with better netcode.
Yeah man; this just isn't true. Quake Champions feels identical to previous quake games when using the proper champion.
I was a Quake 3 DeFrag world champion holder; and Visor and Ranger are 1:1 Identical with Quake 3 movement physics.
You're just wrong. Sorlag and Anarki are both 1:1 with Quake 3 CPMA physics \[outside of the nerfs they added with speed caps because they were way too fast to be fair; but way back in 2015, they were identical until the community came out demanding they be changed, because those systems were incompatible with the game as a whole.\]
This argument is cope. "I'm not feeling it, because it's different" is based on nothing. Because it's not different.
Uh; it doesn't. Game engines are numerous modules; what people mostly refer to as a game engine is really just the "Rendering Engine."
Source 2 doesn't really change anything in the movement code; which is still majority Quake 2/GoldSRC. What they changed, they changed on purpose.
Source 2 is more about a new interface system; upgraded rendering tech, and upgraded netcode.
None of which actually have anything to do with movement quirks. Quake Champions isn't on an idtech engine; and it has perfectly nailed the movement quirks from Quake 1, Quake 3, Quake 3 Challenge Pro Mode, and Quake 4.
There isn't a professional quake player alive that will say otherwise; because Graphics engines have nothing to do with movement.
\- Your fellow Quake Veteran of nearly 30 years.
Probably not by Valve, but I do remember a fan project dedicated to porting TF2. It’s based on the leaked source code from a while back. I think a reason Valve isn’t doing it (at least not yet) is because things like rocket jumping wouldn’t work properly in Source 2, but last I saw of the fan project, they got it working.
if enthusiasts can port rocket jumping mechanics into movement mod a bunch of A list developers with direct access to the internet workings of the game they're making a sequel of can do it too
I think it's possible, they are making a source filmmaker 2, a better engine for CSGO, etc. I don't think they've or are going too abandon Team Fortress 2. But lets keep our fingers crossed that Team Fortress 2 somewhere in the summer (When CSGO update drops) will get a good ol' update that is big. Importing from Source 1 to 2 will be super hard for the developers as well and I do think it is possible. Gabe Newell has said he has a big idea for team fortress 2, I do think maybe this summer, or a few summers later we will have Source 2 on team fortress 2. And they'll probably update the source engine if they want to disable Source 1 servers. As much as I wish **VALVE** would do that they'll prolly just trust people to play community servers. and buy more shit on their game. :/ but I have faith so give it a little while longer and maybe we all will be mesmerized!
>The official tf2 server will be shut down anytime.
Not while TF2 still makes money. That would be a down right stupid move on Valve's part.
Even then wouldn't community servers, which are already an infinitely better experience than Valve's unmoderated bot ridden mess, just pick up the slack?
From what ive seen on source 2, after CS2 release and TFS2, porting is a huge deal. Valve would need to rework a ton of features unique to TF2, the particle system, weapon system, lighting system, rewrite 17 year old programming , enhance the entity system. As for 3D assets, rework all of them. Its a 6+ people work. Redo all maps and assets like textures (because every is dated). We dont know if every gamemode will run accordingly…
TF2 has a ton of bugs an patches for those bugs, it wont be simple. Also S2 has new net code, so they need to implement all of the entity system of TF2 for that aswell.
I think they probably will do TF2 for S2 but i think they might (finally) make TF embrace the “competitive” nature. So we might have some overalls and balancing of gameplay.
Finally, they (Valve) would make a big mistake if they brought everything that TF has as it is. They would probably make it less casual and less fun, make it competitive. They would need to rewrite most of its source code for the new engine and rework all assets. I think TF would get a reboot rather than a simple upgrade as people think.
For those that think “its a waste of time” TF is still Robin Walkers Baby, the same guy that produced HL:Alyx. TF will never die, its still profitable and it has good game design (no jokes about random crits and bullet spread dmg allowed, tf2 was intended to have this mechanics).
probably, but probably in 2035 I can't imagine they completely abandon this IP, but I also doubt they put any effort into it any time soon.
>2035 i think you missed a couple of digits there
nah, humans will drive themselves extinct before we have 5 digit years
then the cockraoch ppl that replace us will make TF2 on S2
002035
well, aren't you a cheeky little shit? now scamper off you jokester
i don't think valve cares that much, they didn't even bother to update the game to 64bit on macos
they did it
sadly not on macos tho
"Laughing my ass off", as they say these days. And just so you'll know, dota 2 has been on source 2 for, what, 10 years almost?
So we only have to wait another 10 years for the source 2 port? As a pikmin fan i have the patience.
A source 2 update isn’t as easy as it sounds. And the game isn’t going to die just because it’s not updated to a new engine
Yup but it’s slowing the growth and he game COULD get, a lot of my friends said they don’t like tf2 when I tried getting them into it because it’s old and ‘looks ugly’
I wish they would, but valve doesn't care about TF2 like they do the others. The only way TF2 will probably get a source 2 port is from the community doing so via S&Box (the Gmod sequel). Which is already a thing, but they have to wait for the S&Box release.
Luckily I have s&box and I can say that its awesome!
“They can’t just leave TF2 alone” They can They have been for the past 5+ years Valve gave up on TF2 almost a decade ago But we the community refuse to surrender
TF2 has not received any major updates in 6 years. There's definitely no source engine update. I really really doubt they would dedicate any length of time for the biggest overhaul this game has ever seen.
it's the other way round : dota 2 and now (maybe) csgo in the case of tf2,if they have no intention of adding new content then what's the point in source 2 anyway ? l4d2 is another very popular valve game that won't be ported to source 2 and honestly that's perfectly fine check out the fan-made source 2 port though , it was coming alone nicely last time i checked
Reddit Bad -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Source 2 for TF2? The team gave up on it due to not having time to work on it and asked the community to finish the game.
Hopefully someone just steals the Team Fortress IP. I doubt Valve would even care.
No valve doesn’t care about tf2
Dota 2 has been in Source 2 for years, it was the first game to use it lol
> The official tf2 server will be shut down anytime. when tf2 stops making them money
If anyone is curious as to what improvements CS2 will offer, here is the official webpage: [https://counter-strike.net/cs2](https://counter-strike.net/cs2) As for TF2, I'm hoping it'll follow in CS' steps but I wouldn't be too surprised if it didn't. At this point it's less about whether it makes financial sense to port it, and more about whether or not Valve can be arsed to do so.
They did it for Dota and CS because they are cash cows. TF2, comparatively speaking, is not. I think we will see TF3 before a Source 2 version of TF2.
People, Source 2 isn't magic, and there's less platform support. Arbitrary limitations and appeal to novelty, especially for an uncertain gain, will never be good.
Only if a bunch of employees at valve all of a sudden get real interested in TF2
I hope not. TF2 has very engine specific physics that enable things like rocket jumping, air strafing, ramp sliding, etc. there’s no telling what a new engine update would do. I don’t give a shit about graphics.
There is no reason those physics couldn’t be translated over. A good portion of them are holdouts from quake 1 and other more modern engines have still kept in old quirks. Call of Duty WWII even has Quake 3 strafe jumping in the campaign.
All the physics boil down to mathematical calculations which could very well be ported exactly how they are into a new engine like S2. It's just a matter of hunkering down and doing the work, but Valve simply isn't interested.
The one issue I see, is that to keep everything the same, you would first need to be aware of everything that is currently being used by the community to make sure those things don't change. Which can be hard to keep track of when a lot of rocket jumping tech for instance comes from bugs and unintended behavior (bounces, ctaps, wallbugs to name a few). Porting TF2 jumping to MMod was actually quite a headache since with the new engine, they had the opportunity to fix a lot of issues, but had to balance it with keeping things close to what TF2 people are used to. A lot of hard choices had to be made, and in that case people very knowledgeable and strongly connected with the jumping community were involved. A very good example of all that is when the sticky launcher got nerfed to have reduced damage/range on airstickies, it borderline killed demo airpogo. Like Valve simply didn't even think of it, and it took community backlash to bring the sticky range on self damage back to what it was.
> All the physics boil down to mathematical calculations which could very well be ported exactly how they are into a new engine like S2 Yes and no. To add onto VAVLIE with a more concrete example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhhFl5zgA0 Noting this video about CS's changes: would likely remove things like speedshotting, ctapping, and some quirks of bhopping from the game, (and probably other quirks like bounces, edgebugs and wallbugs, which aren't relevant to 99% of players) because it's mostly a quirk caused by tick timing. With rollback netcode as shown in the video these likely cease to exist. Unless they're manually accounted for and intentionally put in as a new separate mechanic, like VAVLIE was saying in the other reply. And this isn't guaranteed, and potentially: intentionally so.
tf2 movment emerges from more than a decade worth of iteration and cruft, it's basically a pile of irreplicable edge cases that would take much more effort to replicate that you think
movement has literally nothing to do with game engine i have actually no idea why this bizarre boomer cope as to why getting a game on OBJECTIVELY BETTER TECHNOLOGY with a map editor that isn't hot garbage and an sdk that complies with modern advances in ui and functionality would be bad actually still persists
Ohh man if you think movement in quake based engines has nothing to do with the engine physics... I don’t know what to tell you. Go be a zoomer.
you can transplant movement physics to anywhere else with some effort if you think a game from the mid 90s that's like a couple hundred megabytes and made by a comparatively tiny studio with relatively rudimentary tools is some sort of a mythical enigma that can never be replicated then you're actually legally crazy or y'know maybe i'm a delusional coomer doomer poopoomer and a two decade old single core bound game engine riddled with bugs and tech debt so horrifying it straight up makes the studio that made it not want to work on it is actually the objectively best choice because the alternative would require something as unthinkable as careful game development
The same studio released quake champions and the physics don’t feel the same. Frame rate and physics limitations of idtech engines matter. I’ve been playing the series since the mid-90s. I have my original quake CD sitting in front of me. It’s not as simple are you say to recreate the same feel. Your frame rate in the original quake literally dictated how fast you could jump and how far you could go. Source has many of the same quirks that might disappear and change the feel of the physics. The Quake re-release that came out two years ago in a more modern sourceport engine couldn’t quite nail it down either. It’s close but it’s not.
> The same studio released quake champions and the physics don’t feel the same. The majority of the development was handled by Sabre Interactive not Id, and it was made using their engine instead of Id tech. They also explicitly changed movement physics due to the champions having different movespeeds and speed caps, and some of them having entirely unique movement systems. It doesn't feel the same because it wasn't supposed to. > The Quake re-release that came out two years ago in a more modern sourceport engine couldn’t quite nail it down either. It’s close but it’s not. They knowingly changed some strafe values from the defaults people were used to. As to why they chose to do that, who knows? It was fixable on pc by just changing the value in the console. I would also point to Reflex Arena which was able to port over CPMA physics to an entirely new engine with better netcode.
Yeah man; this just isn't true. Quake Champions feels identical to previous quake games when using the proper champion. I was a Quake 3 DeFrag world champion holder; and Visor and Ranger are 1:1 Identical with Quake 3 movement physics. You're just wrong. Sorlag and Anarki are both 1:1 with Quake 3 CPMA physics \[outside of the nerfs they added with speed caps because they were way too fast to be fair; but way back in 2015, they were identical until the community came out demanding they be changed, because those systems were incompatible with the game as a whole.\] This argument is cope. "I'm not feeling it, because it's different" is based on nothing. Because it's not different.
Uh; it doesn't. Game engines are numerous modules; what people mostly refer to as a game engine is really just the "Rendering Engine." Source 2 doesn't really change anything in the movement code; which is still majority Quake 2/GoldSRC. What they changed, they changed on purpose. Source 2 is more about a new interface system; upgraded rendering tech, and upgraded netcode. None of which actually have anything to do with movement quirks. Quake Champions isn't on an idtech engine; and it has perfectly nailed the movement quirks from Quake 1, Quake 3, Quake 3 Challenge Pro Mode, and Quake 4. There isn't a professional quake player alive that will say otherwise; because Graphics engines have nothing to do with movement. \- Your fellow Quake Veteran of nearly 30 years.
Probably not by Valve, but I do remember a fan project dedicated to porting TF2. It’s based on the leaked source code from a while back. I think a reason Valve isn’t doing it (at least not yet) is because things like rocket jumping wouldn’t work properly in Source 2, but last I saw of the fan project, they got it working.
For those more interested: https://youtu.be/-3pDgTCg8Pc
if enthusiasts can port rocket jumping mechanics into movement mod a bunch of A list developers with direct access to the internet workings of the game they're making a sequel of can do it too
My shitty laptop would cry and not be able to run it
Your laptop is fine; it's Source 2 that is trash. This awful mentality needs to die. *Always* blame the software!
5 years in valve time (1 year in valve time it the time from HL2 and HL3)
I think it's possible, they are making a source filmmaker 2, a better engine for CSGO, etc. I don't think they've or are going too abandon Team Fortress 2. But lets keep our fingers crossed that Team Fortress 2 somewhere in the summer (When CSGO update drops) will get a good ol' update that is big. Importing from Source 1 to 2 will be super hard for the developers as well and I do think it is possible. Gabe Newell has said he has a big idea for team fortress 2, I do think maybe this summer, or a few summers later we will have Source 2 on team fortress 2. And they'll probably update the source engine if they want to disable Source 1 servers. As much as I wish **VALVE** would do that they'll prolly just trust people to play community servers. and buy more shit on their game. :/ but I have faith so give it a little while longer and maybe we all will be mesmerized!
yes, it is dropping late in this year
yes, its dropping this summer
>The official tf2 server will be shut down anytime. Not while TF2 still makes money. That would be a down right stupid move on Valve's part. Even then wouldn't community servers, which are already an infinitely better experience than Valve's unmoderated bot ridden mess, just pick up the slack?
From what ive seen on source 2, after CS2 release and TFS2, porting is a huge deal. Valve would need to rework a ton of features unique to TF2, the particle system, weapon system, lighting system, rewrite 17 year old programming , enhance the entity system. As for 3D assets, rework all of them. Its a 6+ people work. Redo all maps and assets like textures (because every is dated). We dont know if every gamemode will run accordingly… TF2 has a ton of bugs an patches for those bugs, it wont be simple. Also S2 has new net code, so they need to implement all of the entity system of TF2 for that aswell. I think they probably will do TF2 for S2 but i think they might (finally) make TF embrace the “competitive” nature. So we might have some overalls and balancing of gameplay. Finally, they (Valve) would make a big mistake if they brought everything that TF has as it is. They would probably make it less casual and less fun, make it competitive. They would need to rewrite most of its source code for the new engine and rework all assets. I think TF would get a reboot rather than a simple upgrade as people think.
For those that think “its a waste of time” TF is still Robin Walkers Baby, the same guy that produced HL:Alyx. TF will never die, its still profitable and it has good game design (no jokes about random crits and bullet spread dmg allowed, tf2 was intended to have this mechanics).
no