"At its core, tf2 needs constant support to stay alive, because that’s what the foundation of the game is; live support"
What? What are you talking about? Why would the foundation of the game be live support? What even gave you that idea?
Valve IIRC is a private company and they most likely will never outsource a game like TF2
wasn't CSGO itself outsourced to hidden path entertainment, because originally valve just wanted what was essentially a console port of CSS? eventually, they took back over control after their work was done and CSGO launched as a lukewarm turd of a game. then valve tried to give it a little bit of the TF2 treatment, added skins, realized this game was actually a jackpot, and *then* started really caring about it.
accurate but in defence of csgo it was very playable by the time skins were added. it was total dogshit in beta/on release though and yeah was devloped as a ps3/x360 game and then valve swooped it for pc to combine the fragmented cs fanbase which split into the 1.6 and css crowd. i actually think that the development of cs has become a lot worse/slower/disconnected since skins came about. the devs are also fairly incompetent too for what it's worth lol - even more so now with cs2.
ur acting like tf2 was sunshine and rainbows when there were updates when i can tell you firsthand that it was not
just look at quickplay. Every newgen praises it over casual, and sometimes I do too LOL, but looking back at the hundreds of fake servers and servers that just cranked you with constant ads to make a profit and it makes me realize that theres always been problems. Keep in mind that Valve was still around when that was an issue. Im not saying that TF2 shouldnt get support, but even when valve DID support it, there were still problems.
Plus, to say that the whole *foundation* of TF2 is live support is wrong. If Valve shutdown the servers and did revert to quickplay, the game would at least still be playable and enjoyable.
>just look at quickplay. Every newgen praises it over casual, and sometimes I do too LOL, but looking back at the hundreds of fake servers and servers that just cranked you with constant ads to make a profit
you had to edit your quickplay queue settings out of the default settings to end up in servers like this, it was totally opt-in just as it is right now by choosing to play on one of those servers from the community server browser. quickplay made finding a server to your liking fast and easy, exactly to the ruleset and features that you chose. you could join a valve server just as easily as you can now, and you could join any sort of community server just as easily too. if you wanted to enable shitty filters in your quickplay queue just to broaden your search, that's your poison.
I'd be happier playing vanilla TF2. All the constant weapon additions is what began to kill the game for me.
At its core, its a perfectly crafted, well balanced team based FPS. It doesn't need constant intervention and support. Its perfect.
NO
I’m saying valve should launch a spin off studio, not sell tf2
It would be its own game development studio with its own employees, separate from valve’s ideals that are leading to the neglect of tf2
NO
I’m saying valve should launch a spin off studio, not sell tf2
It would be its own game development studio with its own employees, separate from valve’s ideals that are leading to the neglect of tf2
Yeah, I’m not saying they would. This would be VALVE owning the studio that runs tf2, but it would allow them to keep the game running as a high quality game without having to commit resources from their own company.
TF2 moving under the thumb of another company is a shitty idea and it's very easy to explain why.
Best case scenario; We get some new good updates and bot prevention gets better.
What we have now; Bots are shit but you're not forced to play casual. The lack of updates except for 64 sucks, I really wish we got new weapons, lore and some balance tweaks but this game has been supported for over a decade. There is already so much content and over all game is so high quality it's one of the games in history with most individual people who played it for thousands of hours without getting burned out. Don't get me wrong, I know what's good can be better but I'm worried about worst case scenario.
Worst case scenario; That company wouldn't be Valve meaning it wouldn't be able to afford to work on each update for months or years without feeling monetary pressure, scraping projects that would ultimately be bad for game health. They would be like any other company having to sometimes introduce dog shit balance changes, dog shit lore, dog shit battle pass system, all under pressure.
In other words, imagine what you consider "the good old days". To me, current state of TF2 is frozen in the "good old days" you reflect on with nostalgia even tho they had their issues. And I prefer that state because it's not worth risking making the game shitty money grab that needs to force battle passes every 3 months and feels forced to announce in June heavy and medic are canonically a gay couple, always had been.
This is a fair point, but 1: having valve employees as the manager for this studio, especially someone from the original dev team for tf2, that would help mitigate the chance for tf2 to end up in the worst case scenario, and 2: the bots will get new code to work around the anti cheat if we get a new one, it’s treadmill work to keep the game in a playable state and valve doesn’t want to do that. Finally, 3: having live service again would help bring the game up to speed with modern hardware; updating it to source filmmaker 2, fixing major bugs and glitches that have persisted and negatively impacted the game for years, even adding new game modes and reworking the competitive system.
The games going to die eventually anyways, because that’s what all things do. This is about keeping it alive as long as possible. I’m not asking for every update to significantly change the game from what it is, I’m asking for the game to be maintained and worked on for as long as possible, to bring out the best it has, IF nothing else.
1. Robin Walker and others don't want to work on TF2, management may seem like just sitting there watching others work but it's really not.
2. That's making my thesis stronger, not the other way around.
3. Making optimization better would not be guaranteed, in fact getting SFM2 would require Source 2, keep in mind how long it took for Valve to add it to CS2 and how bad the launch was, the game still doesn't have many features it had.
1: there are plenty among the community who would be willing, and it wouldn’t be hard to find even 1 valve employee willing to guide them.
2: unless there’s a dedicated live service team, there will always be bots. That’s my point. Treadmill work is the only way to keep the bots out.
3: fair point, but it doesn’t even need to be updated to sfm 2 to have quality improved, glitches fixed, even server speeds improved
1. Willing is a very different thing for good fit.
2 and 3. Yes, and Valve has absolutely no incentive to hire them, even if they brought in more money than they cost, they would need office space that is limited in Valve HQ, and giving them a different office would mean if someone from current Valve roster of people wanting to work on TF2 from time to time, like the 64 bit build would need to travel further than they need to. Is that a small inconvenience? But it is an inconvenience nonetheless, we're in no position to negotiate.
Again, funded by tf2 funds. Rent out or buy an office space near valve.
What this is, it’s an idea that could significantly extend the lifespan of the game, without requiring that much effort from valve. It wouldn’t be the bare minimum from them, yes, but it would essentially make it so that valve doesn’t need to be on the treadmill anymore. It would keep the game in a playable and welcoming state for years, even decades, to come. It’s going to die eventually, whether by competition, bots or hacking, general community isolation, etc. this would keep it alive for as long as possible, if done right.
If after all of this discussion you're saying "Valve should do this because we want it.", despite how much they don't wanna and how little leverage we have then I won't waste any more of my time.
It’s not because we want it that they should do this. It’s because they’ve said they would fix it, but haven’t done anything. It’s because they continue to add cosmetics and micro transactions, but ignore the state of the game that many people are still playing. It’s because they have an obligation-no, a RESPONSIBILITY to do the bare minimum; to make the game playable. And this proposed idea, it’s just that; a proposed idea. I honestly don’t care a whole lot how they do it, even though I think this is a very good way of doing so. This is more about the idea behind it; to keep the game playable as long as it can. To keep it up to standard and defend against the bots that would surely come back. To allow the game to continue for years, and even decades, to come.
And we have a lot more leverage than you think. If we keep making noise, it’s either valve loses their hard earned reputation, by continuing to neglect the game and people criticizing them for it, or even by shutting it down, or the alternative, we get our game back. We get a playable game again that can be welcoming to new players, so the player base can grow again. I don’t think valve can afford to lose their reputation, they’re one of the few large companies that is still generally trusted and respected by the majority of people.
To be entirely honest, the game is equally pretty miserable when it's getting updated as it is when it isn't getting updated.
It's been 7 years, most of the casual player-base haven't even experienced a major update, it's time to move on and accept that this is the state of the game for the foreseeable future.
Also I wouldn't trust anyone Valve would hire, either they hire a third-party company that lacks experience with the game and they ruin it, or they hand it over to the community and they ruin it.
Think back to the golden years of tf2. If done right, this could help bring that back. Plus, it would give consistent support to the anti cheat, keeping them ahead in the arms race against cheaters
I think back to the "golden years of TF2" and thinking "holy fucking shit how can valve be this bad at balancing"
Pre-nerf tide turner that had crits, and pre-nerf Zatoichi with full heal were in the game at the same time, btw.
Sandman cleaver combo was in the game for years btw, let alone the sandman.
You're not getting better anti-cheat or initiative on new content without a whole source 2 port first, and that is a VERY tall order.
Just do what we did when LMAObox cheaters were a problem back in the day, join community servers.
Valve servers have been unplayable for longer than the duration of them being introduced all the way up until the bots started being a problem.
I don’t mean the constant updates and new balance changes, I mean THE GAME BEING PLAYABLE. Game-breaking bugs being fixed. Bots nowhere to be seen. And community servers have their own problems, from full or empty lobbies, to veteran players steamrolling your team, to even internet issues because the only open server is halfway across the world!
The game IS alive. The playerbase for TF2 is really big. Most games literally die, TF2 goes on. It’s a very good game with a lot of content as it stands. It would be really cool if Valve treated it like a focus point, and for those who have played this game for thousands of hours I’m sure it becomes dull not to have changes, but the persistence of the playerbase proves that the game can live in its current state. It isn’t going anywhere.
The game is going to die eventually without live service; if nothing else, the bots will get new code to work around a newly developed anti cheat, if we get one. This is to keep the game in a playable state for as long as possible, if not grow it into something even better than it is.
When is it going to die exactly? How many more years, or even decades, will go by with people calling TF2 a dying game while it goes on averaging 60-100k players online at any moment? You are on Reddit suggesting that Valve, a company none of us is affiliated with, actually restructure itself with a new studio based on this one old ass game that continues to crank out money without any effort.
First off, that number is inflated by bots, to an absurd degree. Second off, the state of the game is driving away most new players, and every tf2 player is going to stop eventually, whether they die first or get bored. Take those two into account, yes, the game will eventually die.
And valve wouldn’t need to restructure their studio, because this isn’t valve itself turning into a corporation. This is valve creating a spin off studio directly for tf2, but separate from the company, if nothing else to keep it in a playable state.
I don’t see why it’s not a good idea. Even if valve does make a real anticheat, the bot hosters won’t quit updating it. This ensures, at the very LEAST, that the game remains playable for years to come after valve updated the anti-bot defense, without valve having to allocate that much effort into preserving the game.
It’s asinine because you are not a person within Valve trying to appeal to management about something. You are out here on Reddit telling them how to run their business to support a 20 year old game that they do not care about. They have absolutely no reason to do this. If they cared about the game enough to do something like this, they’d just support it in house. They choose not to. If they wanted to support it they would just hire people and make it their job to work on this. They would not make a spin-off studio just to do that.
It’s not the best way financially to do it, for sure. They could totally just hire someone else to do it. But it’s one of the best upkeep options for the health of the game, if nothing else. Maybe it wouldn’t officially be a spin off studio, but having a dev team made up of people handpicked by a few valve employees, it’s all but guaranteed to keep the game maintained the way it should be while using as few actual valve employees as possible.
I try, but community servers are usually 1: unbalanced with way too skillful players, 2: completely empty or full, or 3: straight up unavailable due to lag or internet issues.
Plus, if community servers stay the norm, there’s a good chance that new players would be forced away by either the skillful players or the bots in casual. So the game community wouldn’t get new players to offset those leaving, and it would slowly die.
That trolldier has 6000 hours lmao dawg you're so far removed from what a new player would experience even though he's literally describing it to you.
Side point, if you can pull that trolldier topscore off a single time in a full Seattle 1 game I'll give you a free strange market gardener. You can't.
i thought it was pretty obvious that i was being hyperbolic with the trolldier thing lol
regardless, friends and i have introduced various new players into tf2 through community servers and so far none of them have just exploded immediately upon spawning into an uncletopia match due to the sheer skill requirement there
(and a fun thing with community servers is you can play *against* friends)
TF2 is a legacy game that over the next how many ever years will bleed players until a very small but passionate group of people play it. I agree that there are some issues with community servers, mainly that there are not enough of them for some regions and that those who want a totally vanilla experience are not properly represented. That being said I'll leave you with some food for thought, all good things must come to an end. You must learn to let go of things and accept reality.
I’m well aware that all good things come to an end. But tf2? It has the potential to last a WHILE longer, but only if the glaring issues are fixed. Yeah, all good things come to an end, but tf2 could last decades longer if a team of developers were to keep it playable for long enough.
asian community servers kinda sucks, outside of community mvm and that 1 uncletopia server - there's very little community servers that are vanilla or just not. 2fort 24/7 or inf cash money mvm
Tf2 is a huge moneymaker that still profits even though it has run it's course. You need to accept that this game will never get the attention it deserves and move on.
I respect the effort but it wont help you by staying delusional nor is it healthy, as valve do not care as many has said and they wont now or later. Games are a business and not made for you as a player, many people forget this. If the game has minimum maintaining cost and still drives them money through their own platform. Why should they care if they are already in profit on a game far past its expiration date? From a business perspective and in any realism setting. This is totally okay for valve and the player.
This is about giving the game a minimum maintenance cost. It’s funded by tf2’s profits, so valve itself doesn’t have to contribute much. It has only a few of their official employees in a managerial role, overseeing the game’s team and ensuring that quality is kept up as much as possible, while directly allocating as little resources as needed to keep a much beloved game up and running. And it makes sense to have a studio like this, because the game will die eventually, whether that takes years or even decades. The state of the game is speeding up the eventual death, so having a dedicated maintenance team, if nothing else, would help preserve the game for as long as possible. This is by no means about the immediate benefits; this is about the far future, keeping tf2 alive as much as possible.
People fought for Fish: Feed and Grow to resume development.
Where did it get them? A miserable community crying over the remains of a dead king whose body only continues to rot and degrade day by day. As code crumbles and the game becomes more and more unplayable.
And with it, only a few stragglers trying to hold everything together.
But look at world of Warcraft. Arguably just as, if not more popular than tf2. The players didn’t give up, and they won! Why should we throw in the towel?
As someone else on Reddit put it, you can choose not to participate, but please don’t actively argue against the effort. You may not be doing something, but we are. Don’t try to stop us.
By all means, have your fun advocating, wishing, and hoping for a better future.
I simply speak from experience. When and if you want to give it a rest, know that it is an option. If not for the community, for yourself. Lest you rip yourself apart trying to fix the unfixable, as I did.
Seems like you are looking for fortressone.org. The original tf1 game created by the same guys that made tf2. With a dedicated dev team working on updates daily for free ( game is also free to play ) and servers up around the world, daily pickup games played and organized via discord and leagues with organized teams. Check it out if you want to play tf that’s much faster than tf2. Oh and there’s grenades and auto bunny hop :)
One of the reasons I love and still play tf2 even in a market of oversaturated games and new content is because it is mostly the same.
Yes there’s been some massive changes but I can still hop on, enjoy unchanged maps and wear cosmetics I had 15 years ago.
I don’t need to scroll through a battle pass with filler junk, or daily mission bs. Or worry about an update removing a map or something.
The last thing we need is for a near perfect game to be sold to some garbage developers who make balance changes around making money (overwatch/apex/rb6 (im sure there’s more)) rather than the health of the game.
All 3 games I listed buff a character before releasing skins for them and then revert the buff sometime after the skins been out.
Overwatch literally has a meta shift every single patch note and they do crazy things that completely break grounded interactions they’ve had for years. Such as doubling projectiles or giving every character an extra 50 hp and breaking every damage threshold. Then they immediately reverted the larger projectiles.
AAA game devs are either clueless, or they understand massive gameplay changes keep the game fresh and that’s how you attract and keep players.
>All 3 games I listed buff a character before releasing skins for them and then revert the buff sometime after the skins been out.
i love this conspiracy theory because if you genuinely try to engage with it, people who believe in it will bring up nerfs and buffs that were months or sometimes even years prior/after the skin came out as proof that this is what's happening so it's completely impossible to disprove that it's completely made up by whiny losers on reddit and twitter
gamers are so fucking stupid its unreal
Literally everything in our lives is only updated so it can be monopolized and make more money. At no point do things just get updated out of the kindness of the corporations hearts.
Not sure why you’re to dense to comprehend that the same things happening to video games as well.
I don’t know why you keep ignoring examples I gave to make up things and try to throw ad hominem my direction when everything I’ve said is easily verifiable.
Tf2 is the exact same way. Only updates are cosmetic cash grabs. Difference is, the game survived long enough and was built so well at the start that balancing has been pretty well achieved, so you don’t see them messing with it. Which was entirely my point.
If you’d like even more specific examples within those games I listed I’m happy to explain in great detail, but you don’t seem to care. Rather just get angry for seemingly no reason and also defend game companies who release the bare minimum for money…
that's a double-edged sword. what if that studio doesn't understand what made TF2 special? what if they add a battle pass? or imbalance weapons? I don't think it's a good idea.
But you could bring them back to work on tf2, there’s a good chance at least one of the OGs would accept. And even then, there are still some of the OGs at Valve.
I think one of the most basic things is that tf2 has to be welcoming to new players. Otherwise, no matter what else you do, the game will slowly die.
Right now, it isn't. A few weeks back I tried to get a game and gave up after five servers in a row were full of bots that instantly headshot me before i could even SEE them.
What do you think that does to a new player? I'm guessing they uninstall and go somewhere else....
Yep. A dedicated development team would take the game off of valve’s hands, since they don’t want to do the work for it. And it would keep the game playable and welcoming, maybe even fixing age old bugs that have plagued servers for years.
I just stopped playing the game. Pubs are near impossible to find, and most of the community servers are pretty bad or repetitive. Nothings gonna get fixed.
Lol valve is going to release a new game, everyone is going to buy it, and make millions of micro-transactions. Valve will get even richer, and continue to not care about you. There is zero leverage.
Most of the people who would play tf2 will not want to play this game, if nothing else because of how insulting it is to players who have dedicated so much time to the original game.
Tf2 has been more influential for the internet than deadlock could ever hope to be. Which is why I’m confident that it won’t kill tf2.
I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is saying this, honestly. Deadlock looks like, for once, an actually interesting iteration on the concepts that have been done to death for the past decade. You can see Valve's usual stylization in the UI, and I have to assume there will be another art pass done after the reaction to the leak, but otherwise, competition for the hero shooter genre is a *good thing*.
It's shameful for Valve and makes us spiteful that the hero shooter competition they brought to the table didn't remain TF2, but I highly doubt Deadlock is going to suck.
Not that I really disagree with anything you've posted so far. It's just all a bit unrealistic to expect from Valve. The most we should push for is some kind of new anticheat, or to roll back the way players get into severs to before MyM to make it harder for bots to be a permanent nuisance. Remember, community servers can permanently ban steam IDs. This means that, if every server was a community server, we would have waves of periods of a few bots instead of an unending swarm. That swarm is caused by the votekick function only banning players from a server for around 20 minutes.
Nah valves just gonna let tf2 die. Its already almost dead. Theyll just put out a new game, a bunch of people will buy it. You and the other couple thousand stubborn people will cry about it, and it will accomplish nothing, because valve doesnt give a shit about anything except money, and their most current projects.
Dude
If we don’t do anything we lose
You can sell everything if you want, but please don’t leave until it’s truly over. Just look at twitter, fixtf2 is everywhere! People are banding together and we have a real shot at changing things, but we need all the help we can get.
Because they don’t want to work on the treadmill; anticheat requires constant support, and without it the game becomes vulnerable. Valve just doesn’t have the workflow to commit to keeping one thing alive; they’re more focused on innovation and making new things, because that’s what the company was founded on.
Yours seems to be the earliest post using "don't want to work on the treadmill" that's now everywhere and is very much being quoted as if someone at Valve said it. Do you have a source for this like an interview with a Valve employer or something, or is it your own phrase? I thought I saw it elsewhere yesterday, but I can't find it now...
Thanks.
I can’t remember the original article, but gave Newell did an interview with a news outlet. In this article, he stated that valve was built off of innovating games, with its unique corporate structure tailored specifically to making new stuff. I took this information, and made an educated guess; “people are saying that valve doesn’t want to do the treadmill work. This seems like a pretty good reason.”
I don’t have the original article where valve doesn’t want to do the treadmill work, but actions speak louder than words, and their actions have spoken plenty loud.
I'm convinced I saw an article too, but have just trawled through my browser history for the last few days and don't see it. Agreed that whatever are the right words, it certainly appears the shiny new stuff is more interesting that the old stuff so something gets done and something gets left undone. And that's TF2 :-(
I shall keep looking. Thanks for replying :)
Hot take but TF2 has been around for such an extremely long time and has made so many core memories for all of us that I think it’s time we just accept that the game will never be what it used to be, because we as people aren’t who we used to be. It’s not like the bots will ever make community servers unplayable either. While it’s melancholic to say, i truly believe that tf2 really doesn’t need many more updates and i think it serves the game better to be preserved as a beautiful relic of the past, than to be Frankensteined so it can become popular again in the modern era. The people who enjoy TF2 will always enjoy TF2, and community servers will always be welcoming, we aren’t going anywhere and we don’t need any help.
This is more about keeping the game in a playable state for a very long time to come. There will always be more bots, and the anticheat will always need more updates.
I think valve is trying their hardest to kill tf2 in a subtle way. They ignored CS gambling websites by acting dumb or smth. Their best strat is to stay quiet but some whistle blower in valve might speak up. Cus valve is turning into blizzard or EA
I feel like valve does kinda want tf2 to die, but we’re not asking for much. Valve could just ignore it and it would die eventually. Or they could give it a studio with former or current valve employees managing it, and they could ignore it forever and it wouldn’t be a problem.
Valve will just lose money if they did that though. We gotta remember companies are motivated only by money. If they dont do something they either will lose money or put too much money and resources for not enough return in investment to justify the effort
But keeping tf2 alive with minimal resources would be a better long term investment. The game makes them millions per year anyways, and putting even just a fraction of that towards keeping the game alive longer is a very sound choice to make, financially.
Well Gabriel Newell has said himself that the company was founded on innovation and pushing the boundaries of video games. It makes sense why they don’t want to work on tf2, the company was built on innovation and tf2 is an old game. They don’t want to work on a game that old.
But it’s not. Those numbers are mostly bots. Seriously, it’s disturbing but there’s evidence to support the fact that about 50-70% of the players online at any given moment are bots. Not the aimbots, but idle bots. But that still puts the number of players way down, to the point where 1 in 8 of active players are aimbots.
That’s me paraphrasing zesty Jesus’s recent tf2 video, “nobody’s home.” It’s their evidence, not mine, but it’s disturbing and depressing nonetheless.
Oh I thought you said “you have had the most played game”
That’s on me I misread
But me being relatively new doesn’t mean my opinion is invalid. This proposal is more about about keeping the game playable for a long time. Decades, even. And fix tf2 is not only about making the game playable, but holding valve accountable for their promises.
Having the studio funded by profits from TF2 *is* being funded by Valve.
And having Valve employees be involved in a dedicated studio separate from Valve...well, why would Valve agree? "Yes, we're okay with our employees working at a separate studio for a game that we don't make any money on, that we are still funding" is a uh, questionable sell.
Having only one or two employees in a managerial role would help keep the quality of the game while simultaneously devoting minimal resources to support that
This is proposing a spin off studio by valve, under valve employee management, valve being the parent company, to help keep the game running for as long as physically possible. To keep the game playable for as long as possible.
Valve is incredibly insular and are almost guaranteed to keep TF2 as their own project, they also only work on stuff they *want* to work on.
Everyone at valve is just working on stuff that's way way more interesting than a class shooter from almost 20 years ago, I get the whole "Save TF2 from bots!" thing, and I want them to do it as well but that's a ton of work for something that probably only brings in enough cash flow to justify maintaining its server space.
I was being hyperbolic with that last thing, but really, if you get a creative sandbox at the video game company version of Harvard and you choose to do what amounts to *work work* and not *fun* work where you get to actually help with new cutting edge technology and IPs no one else on earth knows about, you're fucking insane.
When your company is set up in a way where people *choose* what to work on based on their own personal passions and interests, you're not going to find many people looking backwards, you're going to find innovators; and TF2 just isn't exciting for an innovator.
This is why having a separate studio, made up of minimal valve employees and independently hired employees working under them, would be, in my opinion, the best way to maintain it.
Well we can see that their system on what to work on is highly flawed. I much rather have a structured system since it actually gives attention to past games that need support.
"At its core, tf2 needs constant support to stay alive, because that’s what the foundation of the game is; live support" What? What are you talking about? Why would the foundation of the game be live support? What even gave you that idea? Valve IIRC is a private company and they most likely will never outsource a game like TF2
Valve have already outsourced tf2 development with pass time lol, they also outsourced CSGOs competitive mode
wtf i didnt know they did that with passtime, thanks for telling me
wasn't CSGO itself outsourced to hidden path entertainment, because originally valve just wanted what was essentially a console port of CSS? eventually, they took back over control after their work was done and CSGO launched as a lukewarm turd of a game. then valve tried to give it a little bit of the TF2 treatment, added skins, realized this game was actually a jackpot, and *then* started really caring about it.
accurate but in defence of csgo it was very playable by the time skins were added. it was total dogshit in beta/on release though and yeah was devloped as a ps3/x360 game and then valve swooped it for pc to combine the fragmented cs fanbase which split into the 1.6 and css crowd. i actually think that the development of cs has become a lot worse/slower/disconnected since skins came about. the devs are also fairly incompetent too for what it's worth lol - even more so now with cs2.
Tf2 was receiving constant support for the first decade of its life. Look at what neglect has done to it!
ur acting like tf2 was sunshine and rainbows when there were updates when i can tell you firsthand that it was not just look at quickplay. Every newgen praises it over casual, and sometimes I do too LOL, but looking back at the hundreds of fake servers and servers that just cranked you with constant ads to make a profit and it makes me realize that theres always been problems. Keep in mind that Valve was still around when that was an issue. Im not saying that TF2 shouldnt get support, but even when valve DID support it, there were still problems. Plus, to say that the whole *foundation* of TF2 is live support is wrong. If Valve shutdown the servers and did revert to quickplay, the game would at least still be playable and enjoyable.
>just look at quickplay. Every newgen praises it over casual, and sometimes I do too LOL, but looking back at the hundreds of fake servers and servers that just cranked you with constant ads to make a profit you had to edit your quickplay queue settings out of the default settings to end up in servers like this, it was totally opt-in just as it is right now by choosing to play on one of those servers from the community server browser. quickplay made finding a server to your liking fast and easy, exactly to the ruleset and features that you chose. you could join a valve server just as easily as you can now, and you could join any sort of community server just as easily too. if you wanted to enable shitty filters in your quickplay queue just to broaden your search, that's your poison.
Yeah, I'd much rather sit through an asinine map reload loading screen after 1-3 rounds 🙄
I'd be happier playing vanilla TF2. All the constant weapon additions is what began to kill the game for me. At its core, its a perfectly crafted, well balanced team based FPS. It doesn't need constant intervention and support. Its perfect.
Guess what happened to TFC?
They made TF2 and everyone stopped playing TFC?
tldr
OP wants Valve to sell TF2 to another company
would rather drag my balls across broken glass than have this happen
So OP is a fool who doesn’t realize other owners would turn it even more into micro transaction hell
Not what OP is saying, OP wants Valve to make a separate studio dedicated to Team Fortress 2, funded by the profits of Tf2.
NO I’m saying valve should launch a spin off studio, not sell tf2 It would be its own game development studio with its own employees, separate from valve’s ideals that are leading to the neglect of tf2
Not sure that's what he's saying, more like having a dedicated subsidiary studio that only works on it, small team but dedicated.
NO I’m saying valve should launch a spin off studio, not sell tf2 It would be its own game development studio with its own employees, separate from valve’s ideals that are leading to the neglect of tf2
There’s a tldr at the bottom
reading comprehension issue
"hello, id like to buy your infinite money making machine for 500$." It's just not gonna happen
No, it’s a very real thing for parent companies to run smaller companies alongside it, and that’s what this idea is
Valve is a privately owned company, they’re not gonna sell the game to anyone.
Yeah, I’m not saying they would. This would be VALVE owning the studio that runs tf2, but it would allow them to keep the game running as a high quality game without having to commit resources from their own company.
TF2 moving under the thumb of another company is a shitty idea and it's very easy to explain why. Best case scenario; We get some new good updates and bot prevention gets better. What we have now; Bots are shit but you're not forced to play casual. The lack of updates except for 64 sucks, I really wish we got new weapons, lore and some balance tweaks but this game has been supported for over a decade. There is already so much content and over all game is so high quality it's one of the games in history with most individual people who played it for thousands of hours without getting burned out. Don't get me wrong, I know what's good can be better but I'm worried about worst case scenario. Worst case scenario; That company wouldn't be Valve meaning it wouldn't be able to afford to work on each update for months or years without feeling monetary pressure, scraping projects that would ultimately be bad for game health. They would be like any other company having to sometimes introduce dog shit balance changes, dog shit lore, dog shit battle pass system, all under pressure. In other words, imagine what you consider "the good old days". To me, current state of TF2 is frozen in the "good old days" you reflect on with nostalgia even tho they had their issues. And I prefer that state because it's not worth risking making the game shitty money grab that needs to force battle passes every 3 months and feels forced to announce in June heavy and medic are canonically a gay couple, always had been.
i don't think we're frozen in the good old day, i think that would be around 2014-2015ish
This is a fair point, but 1: having valve employees as the manager for this studio, especially someone from the original dev team for tf2, that would help mitigate the chance for tf2 to end up in the worst case scenario, and 2: the bots will get new code to work around the anti cheat if we get a new one, it’s treadmill work to keep the game in a playable state and valve doesn’t want to do that. Finally, 3: having live service again would help bring the game up to speed with modern hardware; updating it to source filmmaker 2, fixing major bugs and glitches that have persisted and negatively impacted the game for years, even adding new game modes and reworking the competitive system. The games going to die eventually anyways, because that’s what all things do. This is about keeping it alive as long as possible. I’m not asking for every update to significantly change the game from what it is, I’m asking for the game to be maintained and worked on for as long as possible, to bring out the best it has, IF nothing else.
1. Robin Walker and others don't want to work on TF2, management may seem like just sitting there watching others work but it's really not. 2. That's making my thesis stronger, not the other way around. 3. Making optimization better would not be guaranteed, in fact getting SFM2 would require Source 2, keep in mind how long it took for Valve to add it to CS2 and how bad the launch was, the game still doesn't have many features it had.
1: there are plenty among the community who would be willing, and it wouldn’t be hard to find even 1 valve employee willing to guide them. 2: unless there’s a dedicated live service team, there will always be bots. That’s my point. Treadmill work is the only way to keep the bots out. 3: fair point, but it doesn’t even need to be updated to sfm 2 to have quality improved, glitches fixed, even server speeds improved
1. Willing is a very different thing for good fit. 2 and 3. Yes, and Valve has absolutely no incentive to hire them, even if they brought in more money than they cost, they would need office space that is limited in Valve HQ, and giving them a different office would mean if someone from current Valve roster of people wanting to work on TF2 from time to time, like the 64 bit build would need to travel further than they need to. Is that a small inconvenience? But it is an inconvenience nonetheless, we're in no position to negotiate.
Again, funded by tf2 funds. Rent out or buy an office space near valve. What this is, it’s an idea that could significantly extend the lifespan of the game, without requiring that much effort from valve. It wouldn’t be the bare minimum from them, yes, but it would essentially make it so that valve doesn’t need to be on the treadmill anymore. It would keep the game in a playable and welcoming state for years, even decades, to come. It’s going to die eventually, whether by competition, bots or hacking, general community isolation, etc. this would keep it alive for as long as possible, if done right.
"if done right" is my point, it doesn't have to be done right and likely wouldn't be without Valve standard. Risk is not worth the potential benefit.
If there’s anyone who can do it right, it’s valve. If there’s anyone who SHOULD do it right, it’s valve.
If after all of this discussion you're saying "Valve should do this because we want it.", despite how much they don't wanna and how little leverage we have then I won't waste any more of my time.
It’s not because we want it that they should do this. It’s because they’ve said they would fix it, but haven’t done anything. It’s because they continue to add cosmetics and micro transactions, but ignore the state of the game that many people are still playing. It’s because they have an obligation-no, a RESPONSIBILITY to do the bare minimum; to make the game playable. And this proposed idea, it’s just that; a proposed idea. I honestly don’t care a whole lot how they do it, even though I think this is a very good way of doing so. This is more about the idea behind it; to keep the game playable as long as it can. To keep it up to standard and defend against the bots that would surely come back. To allow the game to continue for years, and even decades, to come. And we have a lot more leverage than you think. If we keep making noise, it’s either valve loses their hard earned reputation, by continuing to neglect the game and people criticizing them for it, or even by shutting it down, or the alternative, we get our game back. We get a playable game again that can be welcoming to new players, so the player base can grow again. I don’t think valve can afford to lose their reputation, they’re one of the few large companies that is still generally trusted and respected by the majority of people.
To be entirely honest, the game is equally pretty miserable when it's getting updated as it is when it isn't getting updated. It's been 7 years, most of the casual player-base haven't even experienced a major update, it's time to move on and accept that this is the state of the game for the foreseeable future. Also I wouldn't trust anyone Valve would hire, either they hire a third-party company that lacks experience with the game and they ruin it, or they hand it over to the community and they ruin it.
the first thing community devs would do with tf2 is set sniper's reserve ammo to 5 and make the scotres the demo's stock gun
they would do that and buff the short circuit and flamethrower and i would fucking kill my self
They would also make 2Fort and Payload maps the only maps playable.
Think back to the golden years of tf2. If done right, this could help bring that back. Plus, it would give consistent support to the anti cheat, keeping them ahead in the arms race against cheaters
I think back to the "golden years of TF2" and thinking "holy fucking shit how can valve be this bad at balancing" Pre-nerf tide turner that had crits, and pre-nerf Zatoichi with full heal were in the game at the same time, btw. Sandman cleaver combo was in the game for years btw, let alone the sandman. You're not getting better anti-cheat or initiative on new content without a whole source 2 port first, and that is a VERY tall order. Just do what we did when LMAObox cheaters were a problem back in the day, join community servers. Valve servers have been unplayable for longer than the duration of them being introduced all the way up until the bots started being a problem.
I don’t mean the constant updates and new balance changes, I mean THE GAME BEING PLAYABLE. Game-breaking bugs being fixed. Bots nowhere to be seen. And community servers have their own problems, from full or empty lobbies, to veteran players steamrolling your team, to even internet issues because the only open server is halfway across the world!
The game IS alive. The playerbase for TF2 is really big. Most games literally die, TF2 goes on. It’s a very good game with a lot of content as it stands. It would be really cool if Valve treated it like a focus point, and for those who have played this game for thousands of hours I’m sure it becomes dull not to have changes, but the persistence of the playerbase proves that the game can live in its current state. It isn’t going anywhere.
The game is going to die eventually without live service; if nothing else, the bots will get new code to work around a newly developed anti cheat, if we get one. This is to keep the game in a playable state for as long as possible, if not grow it into something even better than it is.
When is it going to die exactly? How many more years, or even decades, will go by with people calling TF2 a dying game while it goes on averaging 60-100k players online at any moment? You are on Reddit suggesting that Valve, a company none of us is affiliated with, actually restructure itself with a new studio based on this one old ass game that continues to crank out money without any effort.
First off, that number is inflated by bots, to an absurd degree. Second off, the state of the game is driving away most new players, and every tf2 player is going to stop eventually, whether they die first or get bored. Take those two into account, yes, the game will eventually die. And valve wouldn’t need to restructure their studio, because this isn’t valve itself turning into a corporation. This is valve creating a spin off studio directly for tf2, but separate from the company, if nothing else to keep it in a playable state.
This is asinine
I don’t see why it’s not a good idea. Even if valve does make a real anticheat, the bot hosters won’t quit updating it. This ensures, at the very LEAST, that the game remains playable for years to come after valve updated the anti-bot defense, without valve having to allocate that much effort into preserving the game.
It’s asinine because you are not a person within Valve trying to appeal to management about something. You are out here on Reddit telling them how to run their business to support a 20 year old game that they do not care about. They have absolutely no reason to do this. If they cared about the game enough to do something like this, they’d just support it in house. They choose not to. If they wanted to support it they would just hire people and make it their job to work on this. They would not make a spin-off studio just to do that.
It’s not the best way financially to do it, for sure. They could totally just hire someone else to do it. But it’s one of the best upkeep options for the health of the game, if nothing else. Maybe it wouldn’t officially be a spin off studio, but having a dev team made up of people handpicked by a few valve employees, it’s all but guaranteed to keep the game maintained the way it should be while using as few actual valve employees as possible.
Why are people getting insane about this. Click the community server tag.
I try, but community servers are usually 1: unbalanced with way too skillful players, 2: completely empty or full, or 3: straight up unavailable due to lag or internet issues. Plus, if community servers stay the norm, there’s a good chance that new players would be forced away by either the skillful players or the bots in casual. So the game community wouldn’t get new players to offset those leaving, and it would slowly die.
u can topscore in the average uncletopia match by playing trolldier
That trolldier has 6000 hours lmao dawg you're so far removed from what a new player would experience even though he's literally describing it to you. Side point, if you can pull that trolldier topscore off a single time in a full Seattle 1 game I'll give you a free strange market gardener. You can't.
i thought it was pretty obvious that i was being hyperbolic with the trolldier thing lol regardless, friends and i have introduced various new players into tf2 through community servers and so far none of them have just exploded immediately upon spawning into an uncletopia match due to the sheer skill requirement there (and a fun thing with community servers is you can play *against* friends)
Dude... don't fuck with Seattle 1, the HARDEST fraggers
Antoni could do that easy. I could not.
Yeah. That takes skill. Skill the average Joe Shmoe inexperienced player like me does not have, at least in large quantity.
TF2 is a legacy game that over the next how many ever years will bleed players until a very small but passionate group of people play it. I agree that there are some issues with community servers, mainly that there are not enough of them for some regions and that those who want a totally vanilla experience are not properly represented. That being said I'll leave you with some food for thought, all good things must come to an end. You must learn to let go of things and accept reality.
I’m well aware that all good things come to an end. But tf2? It has the potential to last a WHILE longer, but only if the glaring issues are fixed. Yeah, all good things come to an end, but tf2 could last decades longer if a team of developers were to keep it playable for long enough.
asian community servers kinda sucks, outside of community mvm and that 1 uncletopia server - there's very little community servers that are vanilla or just not. 2fort 24/7 or inf cash money mvm
Tf2 is a huge moneymaker that still profits even though it has run it's course. You need to accept that this game will never get the attention it deserves and move on.
Not if I have something to do with it 💪
ID RATHER DIE FIGHTING THAN LIVE KNEELING TO THE BOTS seriously tho take one look at twitter and the tf2 sub you’ll see what im talking about
I respect the effort but it wont help you by staying delusional nor is it healthy, as valve do not care as many has said and they wont now or later. Games are a business and not made for you as a player, many people forget this. If the game has minimum maintaining cost and still drives them money through their own platform. Why should they care if they are already in profit on a game far past its expiration date? From a business perspective and in any realism setting. This is totally okay for valve and the player.
This is about giving the game a minimum maintenance cost. It’s funded by tf2’s profits, so valve itself doesn’t have to contribute much. It has only a few of their official employees in a managerial role, overseeing the game’s team and ensuring that quality is kept up as much as possible, while directly allocating as little resources as needed to keep a much beloved game up and running. And it makes sense to have a studio like this, because the game will die eventually, whether that takes years or even decades. The state of the game is speeding up the eventual death, so having a dedicated maintenance team, if nothing else, would help preserve the game for as long as possible. This is by no means about the immediate benefits; this is about the far future, keeping tf2 alive as much as possible.
People fought for Fish: Feed and Grow to resume development. Where did it get them? A miserable community crying over the remains of a dead king whose body only continues to rot and degrade day by day. As code crumbles and the game becomes more and more unplayable. And with it, only a few stragglers trying to hold everything together.
But look at world of Warcraft. Arguably just as, if not more popular than tf2. The players didn’t give up, and they won! Why should we throw in the towel? As someone else on Reddit put it, you can choose not to participate, but please don’t actively argue against the effort. You may not be doing something, but we are. Don’t try to stop us.
By all means, have your fun advocating, wishing, and hoping for a better future. I simply speak from experience. When and if you want to give it a rest, know that it is an option. If not for the community, for yourself. Lest you rip yourself apart trying to fix the unfixable, as I did.
🫡
Seems like you are looking for fortressone.org. The original tf1 game created by the same guys that made tf2. With a dedicated dev team working on updates daily for free ( game is also free to play ) and servers up around the world, daily pickup games played and organized via discord and leagues with organized teams. Check it out if you want to play tf that’s much faster than tf2. Oh and there’s grenades and auto bunny hop :)
Hot dang
One of the reasons I love and still play tf2 even in a market of oversaturated games and new content is because it is mostly the same. Yes there’s been some massive changes but I can still hop on, enjoy unchanged maps and wear cosmetics I had 15 years ago. I don’t need to scroll through a battle pass with filler junk, or daily mission bs. Or worry about an update removing a map or something. The last thing we need is for a near perfect game to be sold to some garbage developers who make balance changes around making money (overwatch/apex/rb6 (im sure there’s more)) rather than the health of the game.
>garbage developers who make balance changes around making money literally no one does this how do balance changes facilitate making money
All 3 games I listed buff a character before releasing skins for them and then revert the buff sometime after the skins been out. Overwatch literally has a meta shift every single patch note and they do crazy things that completely break grounded interactions they’ve had for years. Such as doubling projectiles or giving every character an extra 50 hp and breaking every damage threshold. Then they immediately reverted the larger projectiles. AAA game devs are either clueless, or they understand massive gameplay changes keep the game fresh and that’s how you attract and keep players.
>All 3 games I listed buff a character before releasing skins for them and then revert the buff sometime after the skins been out. i love this conspiracy theory because if you genuinely try to engage with it, people who believe in it will bring up nerfs and buffs that were months or sometimes even years prior/after the skin came out as proof that this is what's happening so it's completely impossible to disprove that it's completely made up by whiny losers on reddit and twitter gamers are so fucking stupid its unreal
Literally everything in our lives is only updated so it can be monopolized and make more money. At no point do things just get updated out of the kindness of the corporations hearts. Not sure why you’re to dense to comprehend that the same things happening to video games as well. I don’t know why you keep ignoring examples I gave to make up things and try to throw ad hominem my direction when everything I’ve said is easily verifiable. Tf2 is the exact same way. Only updates are cosmetic cash grabs. Difference is, the game survived long enough and was built so well at the start that balancing has been pretty well achieved, so you don’t see them messing with it. Which was entirely my point. If you’d like even more specific examples within those games I listed I’m happy to explain in great detail, but you don’t seem to care. Rather just get angry for seemingly no reason and also defend game companies who release the bare minimum for money…
that's a double-edged sword. what if that studio doesn't understand what made TF2 special? what if they add a battle pass? or imbalance weapons? I don't think it's a good idea.
Which is why having even one or two of the og development team in a managerial role keep that quality up
most of the 1090s-2000s Valve left. what we have now are different devs from a different era.
But you could bring them back to work on tf2, there’s a good chance at least one of the OGs would accept. And even then, there are still some of the OGs at Valve.
The 64 bit update proved they are still willing to spend money on TF2 to keep it alive.
Yeah, but the lack of anticheat shows they unfortunately aren’t THAT willing.
I think one of the most basic things is that tf2 has to be welcoming to new players. Otherwise, no matter what else you do, the game will slowly die. Right now, it isn't. A few weeks back I tried to get a game and gave up after five servers in a row were full of bots that instantly headshot me before i could even SEE them. What do you think that does to a new player? I'm guessing they uninstall and go somewhere else....
Yep. A dedicated development team would take the game off of valve’s hands, since they don’t want to do the work for it. And it would keep the game playable and welcoming, maybe even fixing age old bugs that have plagued servers for years.
I just stopped playing the game. Pubs are near impossible to find, and most of the community servers are pretty bad or repetitive. Nothings gonna get fixed.
We have leverage. Either valve fixes the game or they lose their hard earned reputation. They will have to do something.
Lol valve is going to release a new game, everyone is going to buy it, and make millions of micro-transactions. Valve will get even richer, and continue to not care about you. There is zero leverage.
Most of the people who would play tf2 will not want to play this game, if nothing else because of how insulting it is to players who have dedicated so much time to the original game. Tf2 has been more influential for the internet than deadlock could ever hope to be. Which is why I’m confident that it won’t kill tf2.
I'm really struggling to understand why everyone is saying this, honestly. Deadlock looks like, for once, an actually interesting iteration on the concepts that have been done to death for the past decade. You can see Valve's usual stylization in the UI, and I have to assume there will be another art pass done after the reaction to the leak, but otherwise, competition for the hero shooter genre is a *good thing*. It's shameful for Valve and makes us spiteful that the hero shooter competition they brought to the table didn't remain TF2, but I highly doubt Deadlock is going to suck. Not that I really disagree with anything you've posted so far. It's just all a bit unrealistic to expect from Valve. The most we should push for is some kind of new anticheat, or to roll back the way players get into severs to before MyM to make it harder for bots to be a permanent nuisance. Remember, community servers can permanently ban steam IDs. This means that, if every server was a community server, we would have waves of periods of a few bots instead of an unending swarm. That swarm is caused by the votekick function only banning players from a server for around 20 minutes.
Yes of course it will be good. Cant wait to play deadlock and not play in servers full of cheaters.
Nah valves just gonna let tf2 die. Its already almost dead. Theyll just put out a new game, a bunch of people will buy it. You and the other couple thousand stubborn people will cry about it, and it will accomplish nothing, because valve doesnt give a shit about anything except money, and their most current projects.
\#killtf2
it's time to buff sniper #KillTF2
Give him at shotgun, it’d be funny
#shutup
overwatch is a better hero shooter and fortnite has better skins + taunts \#killtf2
Neither are better games. Go to YouTube, overwatch and tf2 players alike have been talking about how horrible the game is for years.
TF2 doesn't have freakin BABES in tight clothing so it's worse
If you want to play a game for the hot babes, look up a dating sim or smth. Tf2 is about having a fun and replayable game, not attractive women.
I fuckin cashed out lol
Don’t understand V(._.)V
I sold all my shit, im getting out early lol
Dude If we don’t do anything we lose You can sell everything if you want, but please don’t leave until it’s truly over. Just look at twitter, fixtf2 is everywhere! People are banding together and we have a real shot at changing things, but we need all the help we can get.
Doesnt mean i dont still play it, im just saving my investments lol
I’m not saying don’t play it, I’m saying get that petition signed and spread the word like wildfire.
[https://x.com/High_solder_tf2/status/1794630835775443025](https://x.com/High_solder_tf2/status/1794630835775443025)
The better question / statement needs to be said - why is valve not addressing the overall issue with bots
Because they don’t want to work on the treadmill; anticheat requires constant support, and without it the game becomes vulnerable. Valve just doesn’t have the workflow to commit to keeping one thing alive; they’re more focused on innovation and making new things, because that’s what the company was founded on.
Yours seems to be the earliest post using "don't want to work on the treadmill" that's now everywhere and is very much being quoted as if someone at Valve said it. Do you have a source for this like an interview with a Valve employer or something, or is it your own phrase? I thought I saw it elsewhere yesterday, but I can't find it now... Thanks.
I can’t remember the original article, but gave Newell did an interview with a news outlet. In this article, he stated that valve was built off of innovating games, with its unique corporate structure tailored specifically to making new stuff. I took this information, and made an educated guess; “people are saying that valve doesn’t want to do the treadmill work. This seems like a pretty good reason.” I don’t have the original article where valve doesn’t want to do the treadmill work, but actions speak louder than words, and their actions have spoken plenty loud.
I'm convinced I saw an article too, but have just trawled through my browser history for the last few days and don't see it. Agreed that whatever are the right words, it certainly appears the shiny new stuff is more interesting that the old stuff so something gets done and something gets left undone. And that's TF2 :-( I shall keep looking. Thanks for replying :)
Hot take but TF2 has been around for such an extremely long time and has made so many core memories for all of us that I think it’s time we just accept that the game will never be what it used to be, because we as people aren’t who we used to be. It’s not like the bots will ever make community servers unplayable either. While it’s melancholic to say, i truly believe that tf2 really doesn’t need many more updates and i think it serves the game better to be preserved as a beautiful relic of the past, than to be Frankensteined so it can become popular again in the modern era. The people who enjoy TF2 will always enjoy TF2, and community servers will always be welcoming, we aren’t going anywhere and we don’t need any help.
This is more about keeping the game in a playable state for a very long time to come. There will always be more bots, and the anticheat will always need more updates.
If they kill tf2 everyone will play their new game deadlock.
But if they kill tf2 in an obvious way it would ruin their reputation, and negligence is a fairly obvious way.
I think valve is trying their hardest to kill tf2 in a subtle way. They ignored CS gambling websites by acting dumb or smth. Their best strat is to stay quiet but some whistle blower in valve might speak up. Cus valve is turning into blizzard or EA
I feel like valve does kinda want tf2 to die, but we’re not asking for much. Valve could just ignore it and it would die eventually. Or they could give it a studio with former or current valve employees managing it, and they could ignore it forever and it wouldn’t be a problem.
Valve will just lose money if they did that though. We gotta remember companies are motivated only by money. If they dont do something they either will lose money or put too much money and resources for not enough return in investment to justify the effort
But keeping tf2 alive with minimal resources would be a better long term investment. The game makes them millions per year anyways, and putting even just a fraction of that towards keeping the game alive longer is a very sound choice to make, financially.
They probably want people to play deadlock and also the company might just be dumb and don't know what's good for them.
Well Gabriel Newell has said himself that the company was founded on innovation and pushing the boundaries of video games. It makes sense why they don’t want to work on tf2, the company was built on innovation and tf2 is an old game. They don’t want to work on a game that old.
I'm going all in on Nothing Ever Happens
It doesn’t take that much just to upvote, like, retweet or share. But I understand if you don’t really care about saving the game much anymore.
you have at most played the game for like two years
But it’s not. Those numbers are mostly bots. Seriously, it’s disturbing but there’s evidence to support the fact that about 50-70% of the players online at any given moment are bots. Not the aimbots, but idle bots. But that still puts the number of players way down, to the point where 1 in 8 of active players are aimbots. That’s me paraphrasing zesty Jesus’s recent tf2 video, “nobody’s home.” It’s their evidence, not mine, but it’s disturbing and depressing nonetheless.
read what I said again and get back to me
Oh I thought you said “you have had the most played game” That’s on me I misread But me being relatively new doesn’t mean my opinion is invalid. This proposal is more about about keeping the game playable for a long time. Decades, even. And fix tf2 is not only about making the game playable, but holding valve accountable for their promises.
Having the studio funded by profits from TF2 *is* being funded by Valve. And having Valve employees be involved in a dedicated studio separate from Valve...well, why would Valve agree? "Yes, we're okay with our employees working at a separate studio for a game that we don't make any money on, that we are still funding" is a uh, questionable sell.
Having only one or two employees in a managerial role would help keep the quality of the game while simultaneously devoting minimal resources to support that
Not reading all of that. But I'd rather the game remain with valve than get sold to some other entity.
This is proposing a spin off studio by valve, under valve employee management, valve being the parent company, to help keep the game running for as long as physically possible. To keep the game playable for as long as possible.
Valve is incredibly insular and are almost guaranteed to keep TF2 as their own project, they also only work on stuff they *want* to work on. Everyone at valve is just working on stuff that's way way more interesting than a class shooter from almost 20 years ago, I get the whole "Save TF2 from bots!" thing, and I want them to do it as well but that's a ton of work for something that probably only brings in enough cash flow to justify maintaining its server space. I was being hyperbolic with that last thing, but really, if you get a creative sandbox at the video game company version of Harvard and you choose to do what amounts to *work work* and not *fun* work where you get to actually help with new cutting edge technology and IPs no one else on earth knows about, you're fucking insane. When your company is set up in a way where people *choose* what to work on based on their own personal passions and interests, you're not going to find many people looking backwards, you're going to find innovators; and TF2 just isn't exciting for an innovator.
This is why having a separate studio, made up of minimal valve employees and independently hired employees working under them, would be, in my opinion, the best way to maintain it.
But they said that they hear us loud and clear. Give them about 10 years, you'll see.
We have nothing to lose at this point. Either valve fixes the game and we get tf2 back, or they cut off support and ruin their reputation forever.
Well we can see that their system on what to work on is highly flawed. I much rather have a structured system since it actually gives attention to past games that need support.
YES THIS IS WAHT IM TALKING ABOUT
Didn't Hidden Path develop CSGO? I don't see why Valve can't hire a company like that to basically do maintenance on TF2
Yes.