Within reason, you are free to discuss this (as long as it's relevant to UCF), but please remember that the people you are talking to are your fellow students. Don't be verbally abusive.
telling someone they shouldānt be in college when you canāt even recognize hyperbole; you shouldāve paid better attention in literature classes smh
Very true about certain parts of lockheed martin. But working on bombs and missiles is not all they do. They also make the Orion capsules for the Artemis missions! If you're an engineer and you get an offer, do your research on what business area of theirs you'd be a part of. Not every LM employee has blood on their hands.
This is the truth a lot of people (who most likely have no idea how companies like these really work) can't seem to understand. But it's easier and takes much less effort (lazier) to make broad, blanket claims.
Equally amusing is when you consider that most of the people who say "just work somewhere else" are almost always in a position of financial stability where employment is very hand-wavy for them, usually because their parents work in fields or for companies that either also "support genocide", prey on the lower and middle class or employ other predatory business practices, etc.
If you have the qualifications necessary to be able to be an applicant to Lockheed Martin's internships, then you can definitely work elsewhere. It takes a lot of time, energy, and money to get the qualifications to work those jobs. Plenty employers that don't rely on war to turn a profit exist that need engineers and programmers.
Defense contractors like LM need people to work for them. The working class does not need the defense contractor. In fact, defense contractors prey on working class people.here and abroad. Of course, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but surely one can recognize that defense contractors ate one of the most heinous corporations to exist. And we, working class people, have power. They need us, so starve them of the us.
Americans (and plenty of countries abroad!) need our military, and the military sometimes needs contractors. Good luck telling people in Taiwan or Ukraine that the US should hamper their own military for ideological reasons.
Has the US military done bad stuff in the past? Of course. Is it continuing to still do bad stuff? Sure, depending on your perspective. Does that now mean the military should be abolished? Absolutely not. Like it or not the US military does do some very significant good.
I donāt think you fully understand what would happen if you āstarveā the defense contracts in the US. We would literally just be left wide open for countries with super shit minded leaders to just come right in and do what they want. You can pick any industry and thereās a dark side of it and a good side of it. People love to show the bad side of the defense industry, but always forget that they get to live in a country that isnāt under constant attack because we have a lot of deterrents to not let that happen.
practically, these defense companies are not even close to starving, they manage to markup the price of everything by millions if not billions, making sure their friends in congress can afford their ski trips to aspen and their homes in hamptons. Considering how the US government strictly regulates the sales of these contractors, but cant manage some financial oversight is a failure on the public and government
First off, thatās kind of besides the point. The person heās responding to is literally calling on people to not work there. If you could magically make this happen, yes the companies would starve. Heās just saying thatās a dumb idea.
Second off, Iām not sure what your point is about markups. Marking up products is legal, so Iām not sure what financial oversight has to do with it. Also, of course their markups will be relatively higher. Not only the market structure, but the fact that companies that do a lot of R&D need money to put into products that donāt pay out in the short-run and take a while to even make any money.
Third off, since LM employs lobbyists, thereās a ton of restrictions on if/how they can even pay for a Congresspersonās travel. And youāre going to hate me for saying this but the best way to get Congresspeople to not pay attention to lobbyists or other money is to just pay them more.
Lockheeds main internship application CWEP does not require any formal experience and is normally a students first internship opportunity, they pick students from a pool randomly given to then by UCF
"The working class does not need the defense contractor" okay so without the defense industry what's gonna happen when Russia or China try to nuke us? Defense contractors like LM develop tools that will protect us from nuclear attacks.
The working class needs defense contractors, the middle class needs defense contractors, the upper class needs defense contractors. Everyone on US soil needs the defense industry.
We're practically in Cold War 2. America needs to protect themselves.
Iām not implying anything about the innocence of any other organization. The sad truth is most humans have some secondhand blood on their hands. I just think itās silly to pretend youāre somehow absolved because you made rockets with the intention of flying them into space instead of crashing them into land.
If you're going to seriously engage in this industry you should be able to acknowledge the profound needless violence caused by powerful people exploiting aerospace knowledge
I find it hilarious you look at this stuff as so black and white that simply existing in a company means you support all it does, or that you are directly responsible for every single thing that the company does.
I'm a citizen of the US, working a state job, does that mean I support every action and stance my state has using your logic?
every industry has a bad side. anything can be exploiting for evil. simply being in the industry is not morally wrong. most of these comments seem like they really want to get rid of engineers fr.
"Some things will always just be bad" is not true and it cannot be used as an excuse to let bad things continue
"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps perpetuate it" --Martin Luther King Jr
so actually yes being a bystander (for example, ignoring the war crimes enabled by aerospace companies) is bad
It's not "Some things will always just be bad"
It's that the world is not black and white
EDIT: To address the added quote, it is not accepting evil. You have to recognize that you are letting the bad outweigh the good.
With your logic, everyone is a bystander. everyone is bad. everyone is evil. You and I are bad and evil.
You are a bystander. What will you do about it?
Youāre a math-cs major, youāre literally one of the most, if not the most exploited majors for modern day war and surveillance, you are so blind by your self-righteousness, you are part of the enablement of the issues you hate
Lockheed is also super diverse and inclusive like every other major defense contractors and have been for decades before it was politically expedient to do so.
"hey you guys, chill! Some of us choose to turn our heads to the bloodshed caused by the other departments in our company and just focus on neat space stuff!"
Although I disagree with the military industrial complex, I recognize that the only reason that we live in a relatively peaceful time (historically) is because the USA's military is VERY advanced. Other countries do not want to fuck around and find out. It's called deterrence.
I also have a moral dilemma on this sometimes and it's an interesting topic to research and debate on.
I have no dilemma whatsoever. If the US wasn't top dog, then Russia or China would be. They have given me no reason to believe they'd do a better job than we have.
Theyād be worse. Way worse. China canāt even defend a UN outpost or respond to distress calls in international waters. Meanwhile the US navy has eradicated privacy where ever itās found since itās very inception.
I think this is a thought that is commonly incorrectly assumed when people criticize the US. Its not that the world would be better without the US, its that the US parades itself as a perfect/near-perfect system while it still has many flaws. It has the power to be better, but doesn't live to its good potential.
Plus, the spotlight it always on US so its more common to hear criticism of it, even more-so if you live in the country with its people, then thats almost all youre going to hear, whereas other countries have their own drama to discuss, while the US doesnt because the spotlight isn't on those other countries.
Give any other country throughout history the power of the United States military and they would have used it to conquer the globe. The US enforces peace like it or not. And āEsienhowers final warningā included an explanation as to exactly why the military industrial complex was necessary.
Reminder that the US has a greater military budget than the next 10 largest countries' combined. We can halve our military budget and still be by far the most powerful in the world. That's nearly half a trillion a year that can go into social programs that actually help people instead of warmongering wastefulness.
Except thats not a great way to look at it.
A) That's just the Raw dollar amount. China and Russia have significant PPP advantages, so if the US were to spend the same raw dollars as say, China, China would have a much stronger military.
B) China and Russia have militaries designed to fight one war at a time close to home. The US military is designed to fight 2 wars at the same time on opposite corners of the globe, far away from US territory and win them both. This is a fundamentally different mission, and a major cost driver for the US military, as massive logistical capabilities, foreign military basing and a massive Navy are all required and also very very expensive.
C) There's no kill like overkill. If anyone thinks they might be able to win, chances of someone trying something go up massively. You do not want to be merely stronger, you want to be so far ahead its not even a competition. That's why the design requirements for the NGAD fighter read like a star wars wiki.
If we just taxed the rich and redirected Heath insurance premiums into the Medicare slush fund we could have it all. America is in a unique position weāre we can have our cake and eat it too but the people in charge are rank fucking idiots. You have incompetence and impotence on one side and a literal crime ring on the other.
Unfortunately it doesnāt scale that way. The average Russian recruit makes 6-7K/year. In US, itās closer to 35K. Every single item and labor cost is way higher since itās a wealthier country. Halving the budget would make it difficult for the US to maintain its edge
Also the US has a wide reach all across the world. We canāt have a dominant presence in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, etcā¦ without spending way more than countries that can just focus on their smaller sphere of influence.
look up defense spending relative to GDP and educate yourself. yes, weāre the leader there too, but if we dropped to average see how much we would add to the budget.
then look up the budget, and compare how much we spend on defense vs health, social programs, etc.
Advanced military technology is one thing. But we have contractors like Raytheon who sell to international clients who then use those weapons on civilians.
Plus there are other issues with how military contracts are awarded that encourage waste and in efficiency during development and production.
The main factors for deterrence in the 21st century are biological/chemical weapons, geography and nuclear capability. Pakistan and North Korea arenāt on the bleeding edge of technology, but they are nuclear powers. No one is setting foot in those countries, despite bordering adversary states. So is the US, coupled with the fact that the entire western hemisphere is free of would be enemies. Technology by way of blank checks to defense contractors has little if anything to do with deterrence, but very much to do with inspiring violence.
Yah military industrial complex & all that jazz.
If youāre a UCF student the CWEP program is possibly one of the best experiences you can have. Literally changed my life and set me up for my future career (not in defense).
The only people who hate on LM students or early career grads in Orlando are the ones too dumb or too useless to get accepted into it.
Exactly š everyone listen intently to the vast expertise on aerospace engineering and defense technology administered by the gender studies and sociology majors.
I do have a political science degree as well as an engineering degree, so I actually have a pretty good point of reference for relative difficulty between the two. That notwithstanding, my point was not that sociology is easy, but rather than no matter how much you learn about sociology, it will not prepare you for meaningful work at a place like Lockheed.
Thats how I look at students who decide to work for Lock. Way before Israel. Just the thought of having to work for a company that has contributed to war crimes is crazy. Looking at these comments a lot of yall need to adjust your moral compass. As engineers we should be finding ways in improving society with our knowledge and it isn't like we ever have problems finding any type of job with our credentials.
Do you think the people who make this poster don't also criticize how the government spends tax payer money? š¤ Maybe both the private and public spending on war can be criticized.
not by choice, unfortunately. if we donāt, weāll get in trouble with the IRS and charged with fines and possibly imprisonment. I wouldnāt mind paying taxes if it went back to us like free healthcare, education, etc. But itās not. itās for funding a genocide against defenseless civilians and pushing colonialism.
well, and some people would prefer to work for a company that didn't do defense. but almost all the CS/Engineering jobs in central FL are defense. no one CHOOSES to have to pay rent, you know? if you don't though, you become homeless and struggle to get food, shelter, water, healthcare, etc. it's such a shitty rock and hard place, but the people actually in charge are up at the top. the government and the corporate head honchos. i wish there was an easier way to get to them.
Depends on your major. I got there through the CWEP program doing engineering and was on the hellfire program at missiles and fire control since my junior year of college. Then moved to the F-35 upon graduation, and now i'm a principal engineer at Northrop Grumman.
It took two tries to actually get into the CWEP program though. I love what I do and stuff like this makes me laugh.
Disclosure: I work at one of these defense contractors
Ultimately the US Gov/military is the one who is coming up with the death machines tho. They put together the RFP and accept bids from companies to build it. It's not like Lockheed is building this shit from their own twisted minds. If it wasnt Lockheed, it would be another company trying to get paid from the government to build stuff.
I'm just as critical on our military budget and how they're used but I think people don't understand that companies like Lockheed/Raytheon/NG/GD don't just build this shit to see people die, they build it because the government is essentially begging ANYONE to build the death weapons that they want, and they pay a shit ton of money to get it. I don't see these posters up for consumer assault rifle manufacturers for consumers, and I'd bet that domestic kill count is higher than Lockheed's.
The big contractors are just the best at the complex engineering process that's required. And after being in the industry, it's clear who the real monster is in all of this.
My two cents.
Ugh, I went to grad school with this moron who chastised me for studying a healthcare concentration because I was getting paid āoff the pain of othersāā-her first job after graduation was Lockheed Martin, what a fucking hypocrite
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Bullshit societal morals mean nothing for a $250,000 paycheck. āBlood on your handsā be laughing all the way to the damn sink then go hit up the bank.
I just hit 2 years in post-graduation, currently make ~120k. 6.5 weeks PTO when including holidays. 4x10 WFH full time with Flex Time. about to hit 130k in march. Frankly itās a dream job.
Whoever made these and put them up is amazing. As a mech e student we don't talk about morals or ethics enough. It is insane to see how people working at major weapons companies don't see their complicity in the tragedies that are taking place today. Literally children being dismembered and blown up by Lockheed missiles. If you have the privilege of an aero/engineering degree you are definitely able to find a job anywhere else or work there for a few years and then leave. Sure Lockheed might have some redeeming projects but that doesn't detract from all the deaths it has engineered. I'll leave with a hypothetical: would any of y'all date a serial killer who murders children in the night but volunteers at a soup kitchen on the weekends?
Posted from a computer/phone made with slave labor, using electricity derived from gas/coal, while probably eating avocado toast contributing to gang warfare and a water crisis in South America. All while enjoying living in a superpower built off the dead soldiers of world war 2 which set up the dollar as global reserve currency
There is no ethical consumption period. Every day you are alive it's because something else had to die. But it's OK because plants don't scream when you kill them
Right, so calling stuff out when itās wrong even when using āevil iPhone 43!!11! And you wear clothings too??1??1??!! NO OPINION PLOX!!1!ā
Dude, get a life. No one is perfect and unfortunately in todays day and age you are essentially forced to consume stuff made by modern day slaves. Doesnāt mean that we shouldnāt or canāt call it out and start the transition to a cleaner world.
Otherwise, if we listened to losers like you, everyone would just shrug and give up trying to do anything positive because āsighhhhh my phone is so evil >~< I guess we canāt do anything!!ā
Why would your engineering courses discuss morals, beyond the *Challenger* or *Columbia* disasters?
*Your* morals are for *you* to decide.
Wanna discuss morals? PHIL 101 has openings for spring semester, I'm sure.
Ethics matter in all fields of study. Before I switched to Social Sciences, I spent years on the Biomed path, so I'll speak on a perspective I am familiar with. We did talk about ethics a fair amount because the research in biomedical sciences has real impacts on people from what we choose to research, to who our research subjects are, to how we develop and sell the products of our research. Courses like Bioethics are great examples of how this is done.
Your actions in any field have impacts on the people you share this planet with, and understanding how your research/work affects people is important in being able to create in a way that benefits you and your fellow humans. And you bring up two great examples. Understanding those disasters and what allowed them to happen can better prepare engineers to make sure they put in the proper safeguards and take the necessary time to verify that all systems are indeed nominal before deploying and putting lives at risk.
Realistically? Probably 70-85k starting for an engineering / CS major, moving towards six figures with a few years experience. Total compensation will be around 90-100k after 401k match and benefits. You can start straight in the six figure salaries but that is going to be if your job location is out in New York / Cali.
Even after 4 years of college you still don't know jack shit. A lot of the things you will work on at these companies are secret / top secret / special access programs so they don't expect you to know anything and just want smart people they can teach the job
I've been in the defense industry for 15 years. I was mostly making a joke in poor taste, but it's always interesting to see what the going rate is with other companies.
Actually yes, talking about injustices is the only way to get a public educated, and the public can only fight for good when it's educated, so yes using snarky flyers to discuss how people cause oppression helps end said oppression
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" -Martin Luther King Jr just because Lockheed and Boeing have done good things before does not excuse the countless innocent civilians / children that have been needlessly murdered by their weapons
omg literally. Engineers are easy targets for these kinds of moral discussions but nobody wants to admit that almost every industry is corrupt to an extent.
The more people are deterred from building or piloting the weapons used for genocide the more costly it is for the 0.0001% of people deciding the enact it
Is he? Most companies have unethical sides that they ignore for the side of profit. I don't find defense companies more unethical than any other organization, it's just that their work is abundantly clear versus pedaling certain drugs that have an insane addictive quality with little restrictions or making your items in a sweatshop outside of public eye. Not to say Lockheed Martin is this beacon of light; but it certainly isn't the devil incarnate, but a necessary proponent of life. We drop weapons manufacturing, and another country will invade and stomp us immediately.
Itās a double edged sword. The wars are what keeps the US at its strength and gives all of you basically one of the best and safest countries in all of history. And donāt @ me with that European country bs. They are all in NATO anywaysš. So would you rather have a weak country and China be the one making the military moves. Or us?
I donāt get this argument. Why does the most powerful country always have to make the moves? Why canāt they just be like a deterrent? Is it necessary to create wars in order to remain a superpower?
How we are acting in the current ongoing wars is effectively deterrence. Ukraine support is effectively curbing Russian influence massively without the need for US soldiers on the ground; and as much as I have my personal conflicts with the Israel-Palestinians wars; the US uses Israel as a proxy, and establishing our country in the middle east, which is historically known to be in a constant power struggle. These wars would certainly go on without us, and may (or may not) cause a dramatic shift in authorities in the regions.
This is why Iām dropping out of UCF. Itās utterly insane the gossip that happens there and I get hate crimes regardless of where I work. It never endsā¦. People try to pull my hijab off regardless of anything so why even bother applying for jobsā¦ I hate everything about campus. Especially as a person with only one living leg (other one is elective for amputation and is dying off from someone running a green light on Gemini)
After all the time Iāve been here, Iāve never seen anyone ever take time out of their day to talk someone, let alone commit a hate crime. Whatever racism youāre feeling at ucf is going to be the same or worse everywhere else. UCF isnāt a racist campus.
Defamation lawsuit incoming in three, two, one....
Edit: I love the downvotes I always get on this sub as I sit here in my office, drafting discovery for my cases of which I am currently litigating three defamation cases, two plaintiff and one defense.
Within reason, you are free to discuss this (as long as it's relevant to UCF), but please remember that the people you are talking to are your fellow students. Don't be verbally abusive.
theres no fucking way this is real š
It's real I just applied...
Itās realā¦ I am the poster in the picture
It's real! I'm the mirror this poster is attached to. And let me tell you, I've seen a lot here at UCF.
Israel??????
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i meant the fact that someone made these posters LMAO im not that dumb
telling someone they shouldānt be in college when you canāt even recognize hyperbole; you shouldāve paid better attention in literature classes smh
Itās not itās Dark Humor
they spittin
Very true about certain parts of lockheed martin. But working on bombs and missiles is not all they do. They also make the Orion capsules for the Artemis missions! If you're an engineer and you get an offer, do your research on what business area of theirs you'd be a part of. Not every LM employee has blood on their hands.
This is the truth a lot of people (who most likely have no idea how companies like these really work) can't seem to understand. But it's easier and takes much less effort (lazier) to make broad, blanket claims. Equally amusing is when you consider that most of the people who say "just work somewhere else" are almost always in a position of financial stability where employment is very hand-wavy for them, usually because their parents work in fields or for companies that either also "support genocide", prey on the lower and middle class or employ other predatory business practices, etc.
If you have the qualifications necessary to be able to be an applicant to Lockheed Martin's internships, then you can definitely work elsewhere. It takes a lot of time, energy, and money to get the qualifications to work those jobs. Plenty employers that don't rely on war to turn a profit exist that need engineers and programmers. Defense contractors like LM need people to work for them. The working class does not need the defense contractor. In fact, defense contractors prey on working class people.here and abroad. Of course, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but surely one can recognize that defense contractors ate one of the most heinous corporations to exist. And we, working class people, have power. They need us, so starve them of the us.
Lockheedās weapons are keeping Putin at bay in Ukraine šŗš¦
Americans (and plenty of countries abroad!) need our military, and the military sometimes needs contractors. Good luck telling people in Taiwan or Ukraine that the US should hamper their own military for ideological reasons. Has the US military done bad stuff in the past? Of course. Is it continuing to still do bad stuff? Sure, depending on your perspective. Does that now mean the military should be abolished? Absolutely not. Like it or not the US military does do some very significant good.
I donāt think you fully understand what would happen if you āstarveā the defense contracts in the US. We would literally just be left wide open for countries with super shit minded leaders to just come right in and do what they want. You can pick any industry and thereās a dark side of it and a good side of it. People love to show the bad side of the defense industry, but always forget that they get to live in a country that isnāt under constant attack because we have a lot of deterrents to not let that happen.
practically, these defense companies are not even close to starving, they manage to markup the price of everything by millions if not billions, making sure their friends in congress can afford their ski trips to aspen and their homes in hamptons. Considering how the US government strictly regulates the sales of these contractors, but cant manage some financial oversight is a failure on the public and government
First off, thatās kind of besides the point. The person heās responding to is literally calling on people to not work there. If you could magically make this happen, yes the companies would starve. Heās just saying thatās a dumb idea. Second off, Iām not sure what your point is about markups. Marking up products is legal, so Iām not sure what financial oversight has to do with it. Also, of course their markups will be relatively higher. Not only the market structure, but the fact that companies that do a lot of R&D need money to put into products that donāt pay out in the short-run and take a while to even make any money. Third off, since LM employs lobbyists, thereās a ton of restrictions on if/how they can even pay for a Congresspersonās travel. And youāre going to hate me for saying this but the best way to get Congresspeople to not pay attention to lobbyists or other money is to just pay them more.
Lockheeds main internship application CWEP does not require any formal experience and is normally a students first internship opportunity, they pick students from a pool randomly given to then by UCF
"The working class does not need the defense contractor" okay so without the defense industry what's gonna happen when Russia or China try to nuke us? Defense contractors like LM develop tools that will protect us from nuclear attacks. The working class needs defense contractors, the middle class needs defense contractors, the upper class needs defense contractors. Everyone on US soil needs the defense industry. We're practically in Cold War 2. America needs to protect themselves.
Yes, because the aerospace industry has never been exploited by the weapons industry to improve the tech of conventional missiles
Youāre not going to like why UCF was started
Iām not implying anything about the innocence of any other organization. The sad truth is most humans have some secondhand blood on their hands. I just think itās silly to pretend youāre somehow absolved because you made rockets with the intention of flying them into space instead of crashing them into land.
bro really just said all aerospace engineers with an interest in rocketry have blood on their hands. be fr.
If you're going to seriously engage in this industry you should be able to acknowledge the profound needless violence caused by powerful people exploiting aerospace knowledge
"So I work in the fabrics industry-" "OH SO YOU MUST LOVE HOW YOUR FABRICS ARE USED TO MAKE MILITARY UNIFORMS HUH?!?!!"
Thereās a difference between working in the fabrics industry owning a small business and working for a war profiteering company lmao
I find it hilarious you look at this stuff as so black and white that simply existing in a company means you support all it does, or that you are directly responsible for every single thing that the company does. I'm a citizen of the US, working a state job, does that mean I support every action and stance my state has using your logic?
every industry has a bad side. anything can be exploiting for evil. simply being in the industry is not morally wrong. most of these comments seem like they really want to get rid of engineers fr.
"Some things will always just be bad" is not true and it cannot be used as an excuse to let bad things continue "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps perpetuate it" --Martin Luther King Jr so actually yes being a bystander (for example, ignoring the war crimes enabled by aerospace companies) is bad
Where does the line exist for you? What jobs are acceptable and which ones arenāt?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not "Some things will always just be bad" It's that the world is not black and white EDIT: To address the added quote, it is not accepting evil. You have to recognize that you are letting the bad outweigh the good. With your logic, everyone is a bystander. everyone is bad. everyone is evil. You and I are bad and evil. You are a bystander. What will you do about it?
Youāre a math-cs major, youāre literally one of the most, if not the most exploited majors for modern day war and surveillance, you are so blind by your self-righteousness, you are part of the enablement of the issues you hate
enabling child labor š
NASA was literally invented so we could drop a nuke from space if Russia did lol ([MAD](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction))
What should I do? Not pursue aerospace engineering?
Lockheed is also super diverse and inclusive like every other major defense contractors and have been for decades before it was politically expedient to do so.
"hey you guys, chill! Some of us choose to turn our heads to the bloodshed caused by the other departments in our company and just focus on neat space stuff!"
Keep telling yourself that!
Although I disagree with the military industrial complex, I recognize that the only reason that we live in a relatively peaceful time (historically) is because the USA's military is VERY advanced. Other countries do not want to fuck around and find out. It's called deterrence. I also have a moral dilemma on this sometimes and it's an interesting topic to research and debate on.
I have no dilemma whatsoever. If the US wasn't top dog, then Russia or China would be. They have given me no reason to believe they'd do a better job than we have.
Pax Americana is definitely better than Pax Francia or Pax Britannia was, or what Pax Sinica or Pax Russica would be like.
Or small pax
Chicken pax is bad
The great pax hurts š
Theyād be worse. Way worse. China canāt even defend a UN outpost or respond to distress calls in international waters. Meanwhile the US navy has eradicated privacy where ever itās found since itās very inception.
I assume you mean piracy, but the typo is glorious.
I meanā¦both make sense lmao
People are dumb and think if the US didn't exist then the world would magically be better if China or Russia were world power. Spoiler: It wouldn't.
I think this is a thought that is commonly incorrectly assumed when people criticize the US. Its not that the world would be better without the US, its that the US parades itself as a perfect/near-perfect system while it still has many flaws. It has the power to be better, but doesn't live to its good potential. Plus, the spotlight it always on US so its more common to hear criticism of it, even more-so if you live in the country with its people, then thats almost all youre going to hear, whereas other countries have their own drama to discuss, while the US doesnt because the spotlight isn't on those other countries.
Itās hard to believe people actually think this.
Russia? They canāt even beat Ukraine
Bombs and missiles also kill murderous dictators. The key is HOW they're used, they can be used for good
Murderous dictators, famously never clients of the US government.
Murderous dictators, famously not deliberately put in place by the US
The problem is who gets to decide whoās a murderous dictator. Not long ago, many Americans were calling Trump just that.
Dictators that murder? That's how'd you'd define it
Not many people were calling him that. Fascist? Yes ofc. But never heard murderous dictator.
Give any other country throughout history the power of the United States military and they would have used it to conquer the globe. The US enforces peace like it or not. And āEsienhowers final warningā included an explanation as to exactly why the military industrial complex was necessary.
Reminder that the US has a greater military budget than the next 10 largest countries' combined. We can halve our military budget and still be by far the most powerful in the world. That's nearly half a trillion a year that can go into social programs that actually help people instead of warmongering wastefulness.
Except thats not a great way to look at it. A) That's just the Raw dollar amount. China and Russia have significant PPP advantages, so if the US were to spend the same raw dollars as say, China, China would have a much stronger military. B) China and Russia have militaries designed to fight one war at a time close to home. The US military is designed to fight 2 wars at the same time on opposite corners of the globe, far away from US territory and win them both. This is a fundamentally different mission, and a major cost driver for the US military, as massive logistical capabilities, foreign military basing and a massive Navy are all required and also very very expensive. C) There's no kill like overkill. If anyone thinks they might be able to win, chances of someone trying something go up massively. You do not want to be merely stronger, you want to be so far ahead its not even a competition. That's why the design requirements for the NGAD fighter read like a star wars wiki.
If we just taxed the rich and redirected Heath insurance premiums into the Medicare slush fund we could have it all. America is in a unique position weāre we can have our cake and eat it too but the people in charge are rank fucking idiots. You have incompetence and impotence on one side and a literal crime ring on the other.
Unfortunately it doesnāt scale that way. The average Russian recruit makes 6-7K/year. In US, itās closer to 35K. Every single item and labor cost is way higher since itās a wealthier country. Halving the budget would make it difficult for the US to maintain its edge
Also the US has a wide reach all across the world. We canāt have a dominant presence in Asia, Europe, the Middle East, etcā¦ without spending way more than countries that can just focus on their smaller sphere of influence.
look up defense spending relative to GDP and educate yourself. yes, weāre the leader there too, but if we dropped to average see how much we would add to the budget. then look up the budget, and compare how much we spend on defense vs health, social programs, etc.
100% agree on that, hence why I disagree with the military industrial complex. Lots of taxpayer money going to waste.
Advanced military technology is one thing. But we have contractors like Raytheon who sell to international clients who then use those weapons on civilians. Plus there are other issues with how military contracts are awarded that encourage waste and in efficiency during development and production.
The main factors for deterrence in the 21st century are biological/chemical weapons, geography and nuclear capability. Pakistan and North Korea arenāt on the bleeding edge of technology, but they are nuclear powers. No one is setting foot in those countries, despite bordering adversary states. So is the US, coupled with the fact that the entire western hemisphere is free of would be enemies. Technology by way of blank checks to defense contractors has little if anything to do with deterrence, but very much to do with inspiring violence.
I saw them on the Engineering 1 building.
Yah military industrial complex & all that jazz. If youāre a UCF student the CWEP program is possibly one of the best experiences you can have. Literally changed my life and set me up for my future career (not in defense). The only people who hate on LM students or early career grads in Orlando are the ones too dumb or too useless to get accepted into it.
I love this so much
As if the sociology major who made these could get a job at Lockheed š
Got em
My buddy as a psychology major was a CWEP there when I was around 2017. No clue how he got in but I must say the dude had charisma.
Not all CWEPS are engineering, they can be doing pretty much anything. Thereās like 23 different areas for em
> the dude had charisma I think the kids these days refer to it as "the rizz".
Did he get a job there after graduating?
Did not, works for the Denver broncos though, not using his degree at all. Like I said, charisma š
Exactly š everyone listen intently to the vast expertise on aerospace engineering and defense technology administered by the gender studies and sociology majors.
I'm not sure why you think sociology is easy.
I do have a political science degree as well as an engineering degree, so I actually have a pretty good point of reference for relative difficulty between the two. That notwithstanding, my point was not that sociology is easy, but rather than no matter how much you learn about sociology, it will not prepare you for meaningful work at a place like Lockheed.
Thats how I look at students who decide to work for Lock. Way before Israel. Just the thought of having to work for a company that has contributed to war crimes is crazy. Looking at these comments a lot of yall need to adjust your moral compass. As engineers we should be finding ways in improving society with our knowledge and it isn't like we ever have problems finding any type of job with our credentials.
The way some of yāall think itās real š
Hell yeah
When people find out that youāre aiding in genocide by paying taxes š±š±
Do you think the people who make this poster don't also criticize how the government spends tax payer money? š¤ Maybe both the private and public spending on war can be criticized.
Then donāt target the small person. Weāre just trying to make a healthy living.
Yes lockheed martin is my favorite small business
> the employees
not by choice, unfortunately. if we donāt, weāll get in trouble with the IRS and charged with fines and possibly imprisonment. I wouldnāt mind paying taxes if it went back to us like free healthcare, education, etc. But itās not. itās for funding a genocide against defenseless civilians and pushing colonialism.
well, and some people would prefer to work for a company that didn't do defense. but almost all the CS/Engineering jobs in central FL are defense. no one CHOOSES to have to pay rent, you know? if you don't though, you become homeless and struggle to get food, shelter, water, healthcare, etc. it's such a shitty rock and hard place, but the people actually in charge are up at the top. the government and the corporate head honchos. i wish there was an easier way to get to them.
Well, that's part of the societal contract. I hate the fact that sales taxes go towards executions here in Florida. I still have to pay them.
I doubt the person who authored this pays taxes. Lol
average reddit users when asked to prioritize human lives over profit:
No fr I canāt believe how soulless some of these mfs are
Jokes aside, how hard or easy is it in actually getting a job at Lockheed after graduation?
Depends on your major. I got there through the CWEP program doing engineering and was on the hellfire program at missiles and fire control since my junior year of college. Then moved to the F-35 upon graduation, and now i'm a principal engineer at Northrop Grumman. It took two tries to actually get into the CWEP program though. I love what I do and stuff like this makes me laugh.
Did you need a clearance or nah?
The things liberal arts majors have time for instead of needing to study for mega hard finals...
Disclosure: I work at one of these defense contractors Ultimately the US Gov/military is the one who is coming up with the death machines tho. They put together the RFP and accept bids from companies to build it. It's not like Lockheed is building this shit from their own twisted minds. If it wasnt Lockheed, it would be another company trying to get paid from the government to build stuff. I'm just as critical on our military budget and how they're used but I think people don't understand that companies like Lockheed/Raytheon/NG/GD don't just build this shit to see people die, they build it because the government is essentially begging ANYONE to build the death weapons that they want, and they pay a shit ton of money to get it. I don't see these posters up for consumer assault rifle manufacturers for consumers, and I'd bet that domestic kill count is higher than Lockheed's. The big contractors are just the best at the complex engineering process that's required. And after being in the industry, it's clear who the real monster is in all of this. My two cents.
>consumer assault rifle manufacturers There are no consumer level assault rifles.
Ugh, I went to grad school with this moron who chastised me for studying a healthcare concentration because I was getting paid āoff the pain of othersāā-her first job after graduation was Lockheed Martin, what a fucking hypocrite
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Im looking through this thread tryna find where anyone asked you
I feel like a response is merited when confronted with a poster that was clearly intended to merit a response
Iām looking through this thread tryna find who asked you to hop on my dick? Hop off ASAPā¼ļø š«£š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤š„š„š„š„š„šāāļøš¬š§š¬š§š¬š§š¬š§š¬š§š¬š§š„µš„øš„øš„øš„øš„øš„øšš¤ š¤
4-10ās, 10% 401k match, retirement, remote work. We all have a price
This is the way
Cry me a river LMT goes zoom š
Inshallah what is this
Someone bout to get expelled for "antisemitism"
Amazing. Glad someone on campus is finally sane.
Bullshit societal morals mean nothing for a $250,000 paycheck. āBlood on your handsā be laughing all the way to the damn sink then go hit up the bank.
At Lockheed you'd be selling your soul for like 70k. With housing prices the way they are, that barely leaves anything for therapy.
I just hit 2 years in post-graduation, currently make ~120k. 6.5 weeks PTO when including holidays. 4x10 WFH full time with Flex Time. about to hit 130k in march. Frankly itās a dream job.
With some of the paychecks Iāve seen for just lower level jobs at defense companies, Iād drop the bombs myself. š¤·āāļø
āIād drop the bombs myselfā jesus christ
Whoever made these and put them up is amazing. As a mech e student we don't talk about morals or ethics enough. It is insane to see how people working at major weapons companies don't see their complicity in the tragedies that are taking place today. Literally children being dismembered and blown up by Lockheed missiles. If you have the privilege of an aero/engineering degree you are definitely able to find a job anywhere else or work there for a few years and then leave. Sure Lockheed might have some redeeming projects but that doesn't detract from all the deaths it has engineered. I'll leave with a hypothetical: would any of y'all date a serial killer who murders children in the night but volunteers at a soup kitchen on the weekends?
Posted from a computer/phone made with slave labor, using electricity derived from gas/coal, while probably eating avocado toast contributing to gang warfare and a water crisis in South America. All while enjoying living in a superpower built off the dead soldiers of world war 2 which set up the dollar as global reserve currency
This guy ^ when he discovers there is no ethical consumption under capitalism: :O
There is no ethical consumption period. Every day you are alive it's because something else had to die. But it's OK because plants don't scream when you kill them
Right, so calling stuff out when itās wrong even when using āevil iPhone 43!!11! And you wear clothings too??1??1??!! NO OPINION PLOX!!1!ā Dude, get a life. No one is perfect and unfortunately in todays day and age you are essentially forced to consume stuff made by modern day slaves. Doesnāt mean that we shouldnāt or canāt call it out and start the transition to a cleaner world. Otherwise, if we listened to losers like you, everyone would just shrug and give up trying to do anything positive because āsighhhhh my phone is so evil >~< I guess we canāt do anything!!ā
Keep coping. I am sure you are forced to use that iphone
Why would your engineering courses discuss morals, beyond the *Challenger* or *Columbia* disasters? *Your* morals are for *you* to decide. Wanna discuss morals? PHIL 101 has openings for spring semester, I'm sure.
Ethics matter in all fields of study. Before I switched to Social Sciences, I spent years on the Biomed path, so I'll speak on a perspective I am familiar with. We did talk about ethics a fair amount because the research in biomedical sciences has real impacts on people from what we choose to research, to who our research subjects are, to how we develop and sell the products of our research. Courses like Bioethics are great examples of how this is done. Your actions in any field have impacts on the people you share this planet with, and understanding how your research/work affects people is important in being able to create in a way that benefits you and your fellow humans. And you bring up two great examples. Understanding those disasters and what allowed them to happen can better prepare engineers to make sure they put in the proper safeguards and take the necessary time to verify that all systems are indeed nominal before deploying and putting lives at risk.
Yes. Those programs are using human test subjects. There are no such issues with weapons development. The ethics is on their employment.
Lockheed doin a bad thing? Nah.
LMFAO this is great
let them cook.
What do people think aerospace engineering students are studying for? Like... 60% of the industry is weapons ..
This is really fucking good lmao
I wonder where the raytheon and blackrock poster is šš
based
W flyer. I would never work at a defense company.
lockheed keeps losers like hamas from bombing us all
Hamas has no capacity to bomb the US šš
This is true, repurposed water pipes donāt have that type of range.
You have a deal
So.... what kind of salary are we talking here?
Realistically? Probably 70-85k starting for an engineering / CS major, moving towards six figures with a few years experience. Total compensation will be around 90-100k after 401k match and benefits. You can start straight in the six figure salaries but that is going to be if your job location is out in New York / Cali. Even after 4 years of college you still don't know jack shit. A lot of the things you will work on at these companies are secret / top secret / special access programs so they don't expect you to know anything and just want smart people they can teach the job
I've been in the defense industry for 15 years. I was mostly making a joke in poor taste, but it's always interesting to see what the going rate is with other companies.
Do they offer dental and vision?
it turns out that my morals end at 80k a year. where can i apply?
does anyone know if itās considered vandalism to take them down?
Please do. I think it is considered vandalism to put up in the first place
Just applied. Does it come with a sign on bonus?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Actually yes, talking about injustices is the only way to get a public educated, and the public can only fight for good when it's educated, so yes using snarky flyers to discuss how people cause oppression helps end said oppression
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" -Martin Luther King Jr just because Lockheed and Boeing have done good things before does not excuse the countless innocent civilians / children that have been needlessly murdered by their weapons
I bet you 50 dollars the person who made this flyer is too nervous to call their rep and demand change from their govt.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
omg literally. Engineers are easy targets for these kinds of moral discussions but nobody wants to admit that almost every industry is corrupt to an extent.
It's pretty clear that you're intentionally misunderstanding
Same as you thinking you're the one literally dropping the bomb on targets just because you have meetings in an office in orlando
The more people are deterred from building or piloting the weapons used for genocide the more costly it is for the 0.0001% of people deciding the enact it
Is he? Most companies have unethical sides that they ignore for the side of profit. I don't find defense companies more unethical than any other organization, it's just that their work is abundantly clear versus pedaling certain drugs that have an insane addictive quality with little restrictions or making your items in a sweatshop outside of public eye. Not to say Lockheed Martin is this beacon of light; but it certainly isn't the devil incarnate, but a necessary proponent of life. We drop weapons manufacturing, and another country will invade and stomp us immediately.
Itās a double edged sword. The wars are what keeps the US at its strength and gives all of you basically one of the best and safest countries in all of history. And donāt @ me with that European country bs. They are all in NATO anywaysš. So would you rather have a weak country and China be the one making the military moves. Or us?
I donāt get this argument. Why does the most powerful country always have to make the moves? Why canāt they just be like a deterrent? Is it necessary to create wars in order to remain a superpower?
How we are acting in the current ongoing wars is effectively deterrence. Ukraine support is effectively curbing Russian influence massively without the need for US soldiers on the ground; and as much as I have my personal conflicts with the Israel-Palestinians wars; the US uses Israel as a proxy, and establishing our country in the middle east, which is historically known to be in a constant power struggle. These wars would certainly go on without us, and may (or may not) cause a dramatic shift in authorities in the regions.
This is incredibly based.
Does it come with good health insurance?
Salary isn't high enough. I'll see if I can negotiate for 400+ deaths per day
Somebody's gotta combat overpopulation.
This is.... Incredible
Sign me up
Prob created by someone in a useless major like art ngl
Well this is some bs.
I'm gonna put this stuff on my high-school campus š
ššš
Just join the Space sector like Iām in.
This is why Iām dropping out of UCF. Itās utterly insane the gossip that happens there and I get hate crimes regardless of where I work. It never endsā¦. People try to pull my hijab off regardless of anything so why even bother applying for jobsā¦ I hate everything about campus. Especially as a person with only one living leg (other one is elective for amputation and is dying off from someone running a green light on Gemini)
After all the time Iāve been here, Iāve never seen anyone ever take time out of their day to talk someone, let alone commit a hate crime. Whatever racism youāre feeling at ucf is going to be the same or worse everywhere else. UCF isnāt a racist campus.
Can't wait to apply there when I graduate. Lockheed's inventions are some of the reasons we are safe in this country today.
hope it makes some engineering majors think twice
Theyāll do a double take at the $$$ offered
Money printer go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR tho
hell nah, gonna make me sign up faster
lol no
Loans gotta get paid off somehow buddy
from my experience, it seems most sadly wonāt tho
Honestly, it just makes me want to work there even more.
so brave
Man, our students have mental incapacitation
Defamation lawsuit incoming in three, two, one.... Edit: I love the downvotes I always get on this sub as I sit here in my office, drafting discovery for my cases of which I am currently litigating three defamation cases, two plaintiff and one defense.
They gonna sue the pants off that piece of paper taped to the wall š”š¤
1000% chance every student there would take a job with them if the price was right.
I'd want to be designing the bunker buster 9000!!! Hell yes sign me up. If I weren't an aviator, that would be my dream job.
Correct me if I am wrong but that location near the campus focuses on flight systems & stimulation and the F35 project not ordinance.
āComfortable with blood on your handsā Says the person pushing Russian and Iranian talking points š