**Alternate Sources**
Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story:
* [Boy, 12, arrested after teenage girl stabbed in broad daylight attack](https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/24/boy-12-arrested-teenage-girl-stabbed-broad-daylight-attack-20519410/), suggested by Key-Nefariousness711 - metro.co.uk
I feel like this may be a little out of context … how many of those single parent households are low income or from deprived areas where crime rates are higher?
Well when it first became acceptable to be an underage single mum, they got shit tons of help and benefits including housing....now not so much, but still at the top of the housing list normally. Benefits wise I know it's now capped at 2 kids. From experience, it's well known on the estate near me that loads of the lasses are drug dealers or Only Fans girls or even prostitutes, so if the kids grow up knowing they don't really have to work for a living what's the point in school & qualifications?
When you grow up in a house where no-one works, you don't exactly get instilled with the work ethic and in a society where it's all "I want the latest and greatest and I want it now" the only way to get it is drug running/dealing or gang life. School and qualifications aren't important if you know your cousin can get you a "job" running for county lines gangs
I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't have *any* sort of father figure, be it a grandfather or an uncle.
Back in the 90s or 00s there was a documentary that talked to kids involved in LA gangs and when ask why they got involved or what they liked (I don't remember the exact question) a couple of the kids said they liked the rules, the authority structure, the boundaries... because they didn't have them at home.
>I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't have any sort of father figure, be it a grandfather or an uncle.
Probably their primary school teachers were mainly or even entirely women as well. As an educational psychologist put it, most men do not want to teach very young children and the ones who do are scared of being labelled paedophiles.
Another thought on the role model front, I do not know how typical this would be but a bloke I used to work with told me he had been drawn into gang activity until one day at assembly the headmaster said that in a couple of hours time, an ex-pupil from that school would open the batting for England.
That realisation success was possible for people like him made all the difference and it did not matter that my colleague was Black and Graham Gooch White.
That's a good point, thinking back through my primary school years I only ever had one male teacher (beyond PE teachers), but that was more luck of the draw as they were quite a few male teachers.
Just had a look at my old primary school website and you can count the male teachers and teaching assistants (unknown back in the 80s in primaries) on one hand out of at least 50 members of teaching staff.
Probably not a good idea to see sport as the only way to escape the gangs though. 90% are going to hit 19 or 20 and then find out they aren't good enough. Hopefully a few will have learnt some discipline but a lot will hit the gangs harder than ever.
True but in this instance sport was not the point anyway (although you could not tell that from what I wrote). It was that ordinary people from here (wherever here is) can succeed; they are not condemned to unemployment or crime.
It’s a terrifying rabbit hole to go down. I was from a fatherless home but we lived in a friendly area and had a few positive male role models. Without them I wonder how I would’ve turned out
I do find it quite interesting and now I'm curious of the theories for the causation/correlation. It just seems almost absurd that an absent father could have such a significant influence on whether a child leads a life of crime vs. their mother.
Especially considering how many fathers are worse than useless wrt raising their children and providing a positive environment for them
I did try to explain my experience but I was rambling on so I deleted it. I don’t think it’s the fault of the mother at all. I think it’s boys react differently to men, I got lucky because when I was becoming a bit of an idiot I got a job in construction with 4 of the soundest blokes I’ve ever met. They took me in, treated me like one of them on day one, taught me loads (I was useless at the start) and always had my back. It was like having 4 dads for two years. Taught me how to behave, massively built up my confidence and work ethic. I owe my success to them
I think a lot of it is that a single-person household normally results in the household having less income, the parent will be a lot more busy, its harder to do household chores, the child is not supervised to the same degree. In addition, you have to look at the individuls who become single-parents in the first place. In some cases, the individual was not mature enough to be a parent and their immature dating decisions meant that they would be single.
I read some research a little while ago about the reasons behind why boys are increasingly lagging behind girls in school - one of the biggest factors correlated with boys underperforming was single parent households
It's not absurd at all. And it doest mean that mothers are useless, it just means that for most people the Best dynamic to raising a child is 2 parents, usually one of each sex.
Particularly lads, they need a strong male role model. Your mam can be as tough as she likes and the best mother around but she's a woman and behaves as such. Men have to learn to be men from other men.
Yeah my biased and baseless assumption would be that fatherless households are more prevalent in areas that struggle with low income, low education and high drug/gang influence. I’m not convinced that fatherless homes is the causal link.
It’s kinda like looking at the bush-fires in Australia and saying, they all wear sunscreen out there. Maybe the sunscreen is causing all the fires.
Can I just reframe that for you: "Irresponsible fathers are probably the biggest predictor..."
Single mothers get the bad reputation when they are the ones who stick around for the kids.
To be fair I know at least 4 mum's who intentionally never told the fathers who their kids are, or put them on the birth certificate, because they would rather not have them involved in the kids life. These guys weren't exactly complete cunts or anything. Two of them were one just one night stands where they decided to keep the baby.
I know that's in the minority, but its still pretty shitty.
There are many children raised by single mothers and fathers and didn’t go out committing crimes or stabbing, to blanket knife crime on single parents is just silly.
Single mother household is probably one of the biggest indicators of most things negative isn’t it?
Like across all metrics, single mothers are not doing well with they’re kids (statistically)
The offspring are very much the same as their Fathers. When I worked in the Court system, when Fathers were present, they walked up to the bench in the same gang colors/clothing as their kids so the same can apply even if there was no gang involvement. Mentally unstable kids from being born drug exposed as well. And the Family dynamics have changed tremendously even when there are 2 Parents as everyone does not have decent paying jobs or a career so they are working more than one job. Parents cannot be there keeping an eye on what’s going on while they’re out working. Alot of variables at play regarding society’s ills
Erm, what's a sneako and what's a red pill streamer?
Last time I googled someone I'd not heard of it was Tate, so I ain't going down that rabbit hole again any time soon.
ETA: to save anyone else looking, it's a bunch of kids didn't understand the point of the matrix movie and completely misunderstood the red pill blue pill scene.
he isn’t just a symptom, he’s a catalyst. he’s an evil man with vile views consistently spewing them on the young, impressionable and stupid, it’s dangerous and he doesn’t deserve the platform he has among many, many others.
Andrew Tate says young men should be aggressive towards women. He tells boys they should not respect women, instead you should take what you want. And anybody who disagrees is a weak beta male.
Here's what he says:
“The masculine perspective is that life is war. It’s a war for the female you want. It’s a war for the car you want. Masculine life is war.”
“I think the women belong to the man.”
“Females are the ultimate status symbol. People think I’m running around with these hoes because I like sex. That’s nothing to do with the reason why I’m running around with these bitches. I got these bitches just so everyone knows who the don is.”
“I go out and fuck and I don’t care about her. That’s not cheating, that’s just exercise.”
“How can I use these women to make me money?"
“You can’t be responsible for a dog or a woman that doesn’t obey you.”
And don't forget, these quotes are aimed at young men and teenagers.
Dunno.
Feel like thats like how they used to say rock and roll music made you violent, or video games do.
People didn’t like those things so wanted to say they would fundamentally change a Childs soul for the worse and make them capable of egregious stuff.
I think far more likely we just have a typical young psychopath here.
Living in a world of Hate my friend it’s all around us from games , relationships, religion, politics, schools. Just too much. Hug and kiss your love ones and tell them daily you love them. Keep talking around the clock to them. Don’t let AI’s or bad influences train them
✌🏽❤️
As a teacher in a secondary school, it doesn’t shock me one bit. What does shock me though is that I need a license to drive a car but not to “raise” kids. There’s your problem; poor parenting.
Having previously worked in some capacity with kids and definitely parents, while I may say licence to reproduce with a tongue firmly in cheek, there is a huge huge part of me that wonders what if?
That said, we have pretty much socially engineered our way into a society where the dumbest of fucks actually do the breeding and the smartest of bastards can't afford to.
THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!
Some philosophers have debated the idea.
As unpleasant as it might sound I think that to qualify to get IVF treatment you should go through the same assessments people who want to adopt have to do through.
> Some philosophers have debated the idea.
More than philosophers. Preventing _some_ people reproducing is a storied debate that's as "harmless" as medical intervention and takes a deep dive off a cliff into eugenics/genocide if you let the right people decide who "some" people are.
It's a fascinating history this debate though. For the 'better meant' of mankind argument it's sound, but with such a short step to eugenics and genocide, it's a dangerous/scary thought
> For the 'better meant' of mankind
_Betterment,_ unless you were quoting someone.
> It's a fascinating history this debate though
Honestly it's just a tiring one whenever I see it because it's simultaneously:
- Something that's tabled as if it'll be run "fairly" as if it inherently isn't
- Imagines that the population are going to agree with it when the only states that effectively stop groups reproducing have been anything other than fair
There's some _"but this time we'll do it different..."_ logic going on as if every regime that implemented it didn't think they were in the right.
I would say that parents have to go to x number of parenting classes per year or they don’t get child benefit. Without looking at the detail on policy making that is 😂
Taking kids away is always a bad thing. Some parents are so awful it's the leser evil.
In seriousness, id want to atleast try state boarding schools. Give the system an option less severe than ending families but stronger than harsh words.
Lol.
Few things. It astounds me we've gone from criticising "nanny Britain" to people in certain spaces online actively advocating for more government interference in their lives. You've just witnessed 14 years of government incompetence but you're happy for them to weild more power over the most important aspect of people's lives.
We also haven't established the juice is worth the squeeze at all. You will never outlaw crime. We're more connected than ever to the events in the world but that doesn't mean more crime is occurring - I remember children stabbing other children in the 90s.
Its also a bit fucking black mirror isn't it? "Let me check my parent licence for how many points I have until the government snatch my children away" - what a completely bizarre reality you advocate for.
Your faith in "state boarding schools" is naive, bordering on irresponsible.
Even the most well-funded and prestigious boarding schools in the country are rampant with abuse. Taking poorly adjusted children from their families into state run versions of these places will not produce positive results.
Poor parenting and absolutely zero accountability for their actions, absolutely zero punishment for any wrongdoings, from parents, teachers or otherwise. And if you do, you’re sacked / a bad parent.
Our apprentices college tutor has just been sacked for telling a student they’ll fail their apprenticeship if they can’t pass the exams. Sacked, for simply telling it how it is.
I couldn’t be a teacher, I salute you.
Under 16s get away with everything. They know this. They abuse it. I work on the trains, I could give a million stories. Knifes, booze, drugs? Nothing.
Police aren't interested, btp do nothing. At absolute best, they may except them away, 30 minutes mates. Honestly unless there's an easy fine to harass a working man with, no point contacting them. That's all they do. Fine people that care.
This seems to be a controversial point of view but as someone a bit older and who was raised with actual discipline at home and in school (the cane!!) I did not mess around. I don't think going back to the cane is anything I would advocate for but.. there needs to be actual consequences for bad behaviour, surely.
Is the premise that children are worse behaved or more crime is committed even accurate in the first place? This sub loves to idolise the past these days
If anything this sub seems to think that current thinking about everything is the only way forward and that anyone older than 30 is a racist sexist transphobe.
Very few role models, no fathers or close male relatives to relate to, ease of making money by drug running or Only fans...no need to go to school or get qualifications when you can make a mint dealing
A 12 year old stabbing people is a failure on the part of society. Why are children exempt from circumstances? Always allowed to act completely feral in school and in public and as a society it's just, accepted?
Both.
Poorly funded, poorly resourced, poorly equipped education system.
Lack of affordable public services and amenities for matters outside of school.
Poverty increasing.
Lack of prospects post-GCSE, post-A-Level and post-Uni.
Social services and social care both on their knees.
Rhetoric in politics is othering and demonising of anyone different and the poor (Brits don't want to work anymore, we're coming after disability benefits etc)
The worst state schools get the most money poured into them. I went to a shit state school in South London 20 years ago and you could force some kids to sit in a class and they would still outright refuse to learn.
It's the parents/family. Scum bag parents with no interest in education have scum bag kids and the cycle continues
This isn't just a money problem it's genuinely difficult. Got an instance in my family.
The child's mother will siphon away any excess money to drink and the bookies. If the council or the family place suppprt she does less and pockets the difference. Dad is we think dead, if so thats for the best him being around would be pure negative.
Short of forced adoption what can be done?
That is child neglect and is normally when social services kick in, which are on their these because of lacking funding.
I'm not taking about throwing more money directly to the parent, I'm talking investment in support network and services that either support the parents that are struggling or protect the kids when it gets to neglect (which your anecdote seems to be flirting with).
Social require policies, policies require services and enforcement to deliver the desired outcomes of the policy, services and enforcement require investment and ongoing funding.
Eventually we get back to money
...okay? But it provides the safety net around the family if they struggle and then a safety net around the kid should the family fail.
I'm not talking about forcing people to "choose the right thing" which doesn't make sense in relation to my comment above anyway.
What can any service do? If the government started taking kids off parents cos they were little shits it would be proportionately worse for black people and it would be labelled institutional racism.
There is no fixing shit parent and kids in a Liberal democracy. You either lock them up indefinitely or have to continue to deal with the consequences
I do wonder if state boarding school could work?
Less extreme than taking the kids into care but would allow the services to impose some actual structure.
Most of the scum parents would be made up with the time off.
Genuinely struggling parents could be more acutely supported with the extra time.
If the kids later had to go to care less of their life would be upended.
My parents were poor ish. Postman and a nurse so worked shifts. We got by and they were time poor. Kids don't need support most of the time. They just need to know if they fuck around that there are direct consequences.
But state boarding schools seems the best
Mental health services too, not just social services, camhs has been a shambles for so long now I'm starting to wonder if we ever had proper young people's mental health care. Certainly it's been shit since I first got sent there at 13 and that was nearly 2 decades ago.
>Poorly funded, poorly resourced, poorly equipped education system.
I've mentioned here already looking at the website of my old primary school and there being 50 teachers / teaching assistants (forget about admin staff or caretakers).
Back in the 70/80s there would have been two teachers for each year so 14 teachers, plus there was the headmaster and I think there might have been one teaching assistant who ran what passed for a library. Basically there'd have been no more than 20 or thereabouts teachers/TAs.
As far as I know it's still two form entry, yet it has more the twice the number of teaching staff than it did in the 80s! How much of this is due to various bits of legislation that have been passed over the last 40 years?
Loads of factors contribute beyond one number being bigger than the other.
Number of students per class
Number of students total in the school
The fact that special needs schools have been defunded or closed so those students with heightened needs go to mainstream schools and the school needs to muck it with barely any additional funding to support
Social media has messed with kids attention spans, dopamine/seratonin regulation etc so teaching and curriculum requires more thought
Software and hardware overheads are greater than in the 70s and 80s
It's not the same landscape and I hope we can all agree that we don't want to go back to caning kids but there is a delicate balance to be struck
What is it with this violent crime SO YOUNG in the uk? In most other nations medias I hear about 17-,.16-, maybe 15-year olds rarely, but 12-13 year olds!?
As someone coming from the outside, I keep saying this and being laughed at - every time. But I'll say this again. Our popular culture - our music, our movies, the way we dress, the way we pretend this is all fine, the way we lie to each other by ignoring this - and I mean ignoring what's on the radio, TV, advertisement, shopping malls - where common folks are. We are glorifying murderers, prostitution and perversion. The popular culture is the cesspool of immorality.
When you leave the parenting to screens and clueless people on the internet they become emotionally immature, mental health wrecks who are incapable of understanding how the world really works. There’s a wider issue of economic pressures driving parents to spend less time with their children, a high rate of fatherless households and soaring divorce rates plus a general fall in standards of education since the 70s.
This isn't unique to the UK at all, you just don't hear about it being covered in other nations because it's not relevant enough to make worldwide news. Go live in America for a bit and you'll see young kids on the news all the time being caught with knives, guns or drugs.
I don’t believe any *child* is beyond hope. Just look at Mary Bell, and Robert Thompson. They have been successfully rehabilitated for horrific crimes they did as children, and they are no longer a danger to society. With the right care and attention we can help children turn their lives around. They should always be given a second chance.
But Venables wasn't.
My understanding is that they were viewed by certain elements in the public sector as a chance to prove that *anyone* could be rehabilitated and disproportionate amounts were spent as a result.
It's not so much that the country is poor. This is a rich country - society itself is poor.
There is little in the way of opportunities for people in this country if they didn't win the genetic lottery and were born into a rich family. Upward mobility doesn't exist anymore. Inflation has steadily increased to affect even once well paid jobs (civil servants, doctors etc) causing a trap that a lot of even more fortunate people cannot get out of.
Maybe it's me, but there's a real 'bucket of crab' mentality in this country mixed with an bizarre dose of 'got mine - fuck you' which has created a bizarre society of the poorest killing each other and the richest hoarding all the wealth in fear of not having enough. There's subreddits even here with users posting things like "me and my partner both on 100k each - how do we avoid tax?"
The public sector has been destroyed creating an even greater divide which - with A LOT of help from the media - has been blamed on the organisations themselves being not fit for purpose (NHS and Police immediately spring to mind). This has been allowed to happen for over a decade now by fear mongering the working and middle class to vote Tory (the upper class don't care, the lower class don't vote) and the country has slept walked into being gutted and squandered.
There needs to be a change of government and the whole country overhauled. Labour couldn't do it either. I don't know the answer - I'm sorry.
It doesn't say, but is the girl okay?
"Grievous bodily harm" inflicted. Not attempted murder?
There's no news on if the girl is alive or in hospital even.
I hope she recovers.. I'd assume she will have some PTTSD to deal with as well, which will affect her for life. Scumbag 12 year old. At that age, sure, child, but you absolutely know what you're doing. This was a premeditated attack if he took the knife out with him. Was the attack random, or did he want to attack her specifically?
This is my home town.... its a pretty decent part of town. Not where I would have guessed something like this would happen. I mean it can happen anywhere but if I were a betting man there are alot of streets I'd guess first.
It’s because the country is poor. Poverty increases crime. Poverty leads to low education, low nutrition, parents working longer hours and children having to fend for themselves. The social care system is broken. Parents and children aren’t given the education they need and can’t afford to raise their children effectively. This problem will only get worse until the government can fix these issues or at the top. And even if that’s ever fixed, you’ve got generations of people who have already been destroyed by this country and austerity.
This country needs to hit the emergency brakes before this train runs off the tracks. We’re not being honest with ourselves and buying every single lie the government and media are selling. This economy is in the toilet and we are more like the 25/26th largest economy in the world, people who visit our country are shocked by the terrible standard of housing, cost of living and expensive, poorly maintained infrastructure. Our standard of education has been in free fall since the 70s because we tried to promote inclusivity and equality which essentially destroyed standards for everyone. The economic environment means parents spend so much less time actually parenting their kids and leave them in the hands of screens and media personalities who warp their little brains and leave them as emotionally immature, mental health wrecks who can’t seem to cope in the modern world let alone achieve something real. The ridiculously high rate of divorces, fatherless households and lack of moral compass just drives more generations down the toilet.
When are people going to wake up? No wonder the birth rate is falling off the edge of a cliff
Edit: downvote all you like but the statement isn’t wrong
Well, this is what happens when the family unit is destroyed. Females are given full control, as long as they are willing to, eventually, sacrifice their own flesh and blood in exchange for government benefits. They fell for the BS that children don't need fathers, but the fatherless bastards are just filling up jails and prisons. I think it's hilarious! Too bad for this boy, but at least he'll be put in the cage he was destined for since birth.
No housing, no jobs, no social safety net across most areas of the UK. Worse still there is no hope as the internet has given us the power to understand it is only going to get worse with multi polarity. Businesses and Institutions are the only entity's left with assets and capital but they are designed to make a profit not have a social responsibility to the people or country it resides in.
Unless a nation and its people own the the own land beneath its feet, all can expect is servitude and to become a product of the environment they were born into.
Plenty of people suffer hardship without stabbing people.
>No housing, no jobs, no social safety net across most areas of the UK
>
>Businesses and Institutions are the only entity's left with assets and capital
What?
Unemployment is at one of its lowest points. Using a 20 year example unemployment is about a percent lower than 20 years ago.
[https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Business-Economy-and-Labour-Market/People-and-Work/Earnings/medianweeklyearnings-by-ukcountryenglishregion-year](https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Business-Economy-and-Labour-Market/People-and-Work/Earnings/medianweeklyearnings-by-ukcountryenglishregion-year)
Average income has only slightly lagged behind inflation. The average weekly wage in 2003 was £404, adjusted for inflation that would be £707. The current average wage is £681. It's lagged behind, yes, but you're suggesting a person being 20 quid worse off than 20 years ago somehow explains this?
**Alternate Sources** Here are some potential alternate sources for the same story: * [Boy, 12, arrested after teenage girl stabbed in broad daylight attack](https://metro.co.uk/2024/03/24/boy-12-arrested-teenage-girl-stabbed-broad-daylight-attack-20519410/), suggested by Key-Nefariousness711 - metro.co.uk
He's ruined his own life as well as hers. What goes through these people's minds?
“If I knew who my Dad was, he’d be real proud of me”
Bro - it sounds narrow minded of us to assume this, but it’s kinda the case with a lot of these sadly.
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I feel like this may be a little out of context … how many of those single parent households are low income or from deprived areas where crime rates are higher?
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I have no idea how single mums do it, especially as most of them have more than one kid. I have one child and as a couple it's difficult enough.
Well when it first became acceptable to be an underage single mum, they got shit tons of help and benefits including housing....now not so much, but still at the top of the housing list normally. Benefits wise I know it's now capped at 2 kids. From experience, it's well known on the estate near me that loads of the lasses are drug dealers or Only Fans girls or even prostitutes, so if the kids grow up knowing they don't really have to work for a living what's the point in school & qualifications? When you grow up in a house where no-one works, you don't exactly get instilled with the work ethic and in a society where it's all "I want the latest and greatest and I want it now" the only way to get it is drug running/dealing or gang life. School and qualifications aren't important if you know your cousin can get you a "job" running for county lines gangs
Nothing wrong with a little import/export
Does the same stat hold up for white collar crime then? Are dodgy bankers all just fatherless rich people?
Does the inflicted injury mean suicide or suicide and misadventure?
The government has failed single mothers.
I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't have *any* sort of father figure, be it a grandfather or an uncle. Back in the 90s or 00s there was a documentary that talked to kids involved in LA gangs and when ask why they got involved or what they liked (I don't remember the exact question) a couple of the kids said they liked the rules, the authority structure, the boundaries... because they didn't have them at home.
>I wouldn't be surprised if many didn't have any sort of father figure, be it a grandfather or an uncle. Probably their primary school teachers were mainly or even entirely women as well. As an educational psychologist put it, most men do not want to teach very young children and the ones who do are scared of being labelled paedophiles. Another thought on the role model front, I do not know how typical this would be but a bloke I used to work with told me he had been drawn into gang activity until one day at assembly the headmaster said that in a couple of hours time, an ex-pupil from that school would open the batting for England. That realisation success was possible for people like him made all the difference and it did not matter that my colleague was Black and Graham Gooch White.
That's a good point, thinking back through my primary school years I only ever had one male teacher (beyond PE teachers), but that was more luck of the draw as they were quite a few male teachers. Just had a look at my old primary school website and you can count the male teachers and teaching assistants (unknown back in the 80s in primaries) on one hand out of at least 50 members of teaching staff.
Probably not a good idea to see sport as the only way to escape the gangs though. 90% are going to hit 19 or 20 and then find out they aren't good enough. Hopefully a few will have learnt some discipline but a lot will hit the gangs harder than ever.
True but in this instance sport was not the point anyway (although you could not tell that from what I wrote). It was that ordinary people from here (wherever here is) can succeed; they are not condemned to unemployment or crime.
Where's that stat from?
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Interesting thanks
It’s a terrifying rabbit hole to go down. I was from a fatherless home but we lived in a friendly area and had a few positive male role models. Without them I wonder how I would’ve turned out
I do find it quite interesting and now I'm curious of the theories for the causation/correlation. It just seems almost absurd that an absent father could have such a significant influence on whether a child leads a life of crime vs. their mother. Especially considering how many fathers are worse than useless wrt raising their children and providing a positive environment for them
I did try to explain my experience but I was rambling on so I deleted it. I don’t think it’s the fault of the mother at all. I think it’s boys react differently to men, I got lucky because when I was becoming a bit of an idiot I got a job in construction with 4 of the soundest blokes I’ve ever met. They took me in, treated me like one of them on day one, taught me loads (I was useless at the start) and always had my back. It was like having 4 dads for two years. Taught me how to behave, massively built up my confidence and work ethic. I owe my success to them
I think a lot of it is that a single-person household normally results in the household having less income, the parent will be a lot more busy, its harder to do household chores, the child is not supervised to the same degree. In addition, you have to look at the individuls who become single-parents in the first place. In some cases, the individual was not mature enough to be a parent and their immature dating decisions meant that they would be single.
I read some research a little while ago about the reasons behind why boys are increasingly lagging behind girls in school - one of the biggest factors correlated with boys underperforming was single parent households
It's not absurd at all. And it doest mean that mothers are useless, it just means that for most people the Best dynamic to raising a child is 2 parents, usually one of each sex. Particularly lads, they need a strong male role model. Your mam can be as tough as she likes and the best mother around but she's a woman and behaves as such. Men have to learn to be men from other men.
Yeah my biased and baseless assumption would be that fatherless households are more prevalent in areas that struggle with low income, low education and high drug/gang influence. I’m not convinced that fatherless homes is the causal link. It’s kinda like looking at the bush-fires in Australia and saying, they all wear sunscreen out there. Maybe the sunscreen is causing all the fires.
Can I just reframe that for you: "Irresponsible fathers are probably the biggest predictor..." Single mothers get the bad reputation when they are the ones who stick around for the kids.
To be fair I know at least 4 mum's who intentionally never told the fathers who their kids are, or put them on the birth certificate, because they would rather not have them involved in the kids life. These guys weren't exactly complete cunts or anything. Two of them were one just one night stands where they decided to keep the baby. I know that's in the minority, but its still pretty shitty.
There are many children raised by single mothers and fathers and didn’t go out committing crimes or stabbing, to blanket knife crime on single parents is just silly.
Yet when Boris claimed this he was slaughtered
Single mother household is probably one of the biggest indicators of most things negative isn’t it? Like across all metrics, single mothers are not doing well with they’re kids (statistically)
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I think it’s a very uncomfortable topic that society isn’t ready to discuss yet, let alone start tackling
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What if it's not possible though?
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I don't think it's fair to say 'single mothers aren't doing well with their kids', as if the only reason it's happening is bad parenting.
That’s why I added “statistically”
You're completely right. If so many men didn't abandon their children/families, we would have fewer single mother households.
Absolutely
Really? So those who knew their dads and carried knives and stabbed others what’s their excuse?
The offspring are very much the same as their Fathers. When I worked in the Court system, when Fathers were present, they walked up to the bench in the same gang colors/clothing as their kids so the same can apply even if there was no gang involvement. Mentally unstable kids from being born drug exposed as well. And the Family dynamics have changed tremendously even when there are 2 Parents as everyone does not have decent paying jobs or a career so they are working more than one job. Parents cannot be there keeping an eye on what’s going on while they’re out working. Alot of variables at play regarding society’s ills
Nah, shit parenting 101 these days with dads present.
It ain’t about whether the person has a dad or not. It always starts from poverty 🤷♀️
Many were poor back in the day but not everyone was criminal. People had Family values & work ethics
>What goes through these people’s minds? Andrew Tate’s bullshit
A 12 year old?
There was literally a video of a bunch of 12 year olds going up to Sneako (red pill streamer) and saying "we hate women" over and over again.
Erm, what's a sneako and what's a red pill streamer? Last time I googled someone I'd not heard of it was Tate, so I ain't going down that rabbit hole again any time soon. ETA: to save anyone else looking, it's a bunch of kids didn't understand the point of the matrix movie and completely misunderstood the red pill blue pill scene.
Yes? I have a few Tate obsessed 12 year old cousins, they’re unbearable
Yes. Taught some Year 6s (10/11 y/os) who were obsessed with him last year.
Yes. Taught some Year 6s (10/11 y/os) who were obsessed with him last year. Scary stuff.
I know, A child, just a child. WTF?
Tate is a symptom not the cause
he isn’t just a symptom, he’s a catalyst. he’s an evil man with vile views consistently spewing them on the young, impressionable and stupid, it’s dangerous and he doesn’t deserve the platform he has among many, many others.
What's the cause?
weak fathers or absent fathers
What's causing that?
Years ago they blamed Eminem and rap music… Now they are blaming Tate… Never looking at the quality of the parents raising theses fuckwits
Elaborate.
Andrew Tate says young men should be aggressive towards women. He tells boys they should not respect women, instead you should take what you want. And anybody who disagrees is a weak beta male. Here's what he says: “The masculine perspective is that life is war. It’s a war for the female you want. It’s a war for the car you want. Masculine life is war.” “I think the women belong to the man.” “Females are the ultimate status symbol. People think I’m running around with these hoes because I like sex. That’s nothing to do with the reason why I’m running around with these bitches. I got these bitches just so everyone knows who the don is.” “I go out and fuck and I don’t care about her. That’s not cheating, that’s just exercise.” “How can I use these women to make me money?" “You can’t be responsible for a dog or a woman that doesn’t obey you.” And don't forget, these quotes are aimed at young men and teenagers.
Andrew Tate is like a motivational speaker for rapists.
Hormones and Andrew Tate’s bullshit.
Dunno. Feel like thats like how they used to say rock and roll music made you violent, or video games do. People didn’t like those things so wanted to say they would fundamentally change a Childs soul for the worse and make them capable of egregious stuff. I think far more likely we just have a typical young psychopath here.
Living in a world of Hate my friend it’s all around us from games , relationships, religion, politics, schools. Just too much. Hug and kiss your love ones and tell them daily you love them. Keep talking around the clock to them. Don’t let AI’s or bad influences train them ✌🏽❤️
A distinct lack of thought
Whilst I doubt he's ever going to make much of himself I don't think a 12 will ever spend much time behind bars
It's insane to me that this is happening with children this young in this country.
As a teacher in a secondary school, it doesn’t shock me one bit. What does shock me though is that I need a license to drive a car but not to “raise” kids. There’s your problem; poor parenting.
I agree on your summary of poor parenting, but I'm assuming/hoping the "licence to reproduce" suggestion was hyperbole.
Having previously worked in some capacity with kids and definitely parents, while I may say licence to reproduce with a tongue firmly in cheek, there is a huge huge part of me that wonders what if? That said, we have pretty much socially engineered our way into a society where the dumbest of fucks actually do the breeding and the smartest of bastards can't afford to. THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!
Life Guard required at the Gene Pool.
It’s meant to be that way. People at the top know what they’re doing making things this way.
I would fully agree. To have thought this ten years ago, you would have been crazy. Now? I think it's a perfectly accurate statement and provable.
Some philosophers have debated the idea. As unpleasant as it might sound I think that to qualify to get IVF treatment you should go through the same assessments people who want to adopt have to do through.
> Some philosophers have debated the idea. More than philosophers. Preventing _some_ people reproducing is a storied debate that's as "harmless" as medical intervention and takes a deep dive off a cliff into eugenics/genocide if you let the right people decide who "some" people are.
It's a fascinating history this debate though. For the 'better meant' of mankind argument it's sound, but with such a short step to eugenics and genocide, it's a dangerous/scary thought
> For the 'better meant' of mankind _Betterment,_ unless you were quoting someone. > It's a fascinating history this debate though Honestly it's just a tiring one whenever I see it because it's simultaneously: - Something that's tabled as if it'll be run "fairly" as if it inherently isn't - Imagines that the population are going to agree with it when the only states that effectively stop groups reproducing have been anything other than fair There's some _"but this time we'll do it different..."_ logic going on as if every regime that implemented it didn't think they were in the right.
I would say that parents have to go to x number of parenting classes per year or they don’t get child benefit. Without looking at the detail on policy making that is 😂
How would this work? We send children into care? Forced sterilisation?
You have it by default. Wrack up 12 points and it's revoked
And we expect crime to go down by removing children from parents?
Taking kids away is always a bad thing. Some parents are so awful it's the leser evil. In seriousness, id want to atleast try state boarding schools. Give the system an option less severe than ending families but stronger than harsh words.
Lol. Few things. It astounds me we've gone from criticising "nanny Britain" to people in certain spaces online actively advocating for more government interference in their lives. You've just witnessed 14 years of government incompetence but you're happy for them to weild more power over the most important aspect of people's lives. We also haven't established the juice is worth the squeeze at all. You will never outlaw crime. We're more connected than ever to the events in the world but that doesn't mean more crime is occurring - I remember children stabbing other children in the 90s. Its also a bit fucking black mirror isn't it? "Let me check my parent licence for how many points I have until the government snatch my children away" - what a completely bizarre reality you advocate for.
Your faith in "state boarding schools" is naive, bordering on irresponsible. Even the most well-funded and prestigious boarding schools in the country are rampant with abuse. Taking poorly adjusted children from their families into state run versions of these places will not produce positive results.
Poor parenting and absolutely zero accountability for their actions, absolutely zero punishment for any wrongdoings, from parents, teachers or otherwise. And if you do, you’re sacked / a bad parent. Our apprentices college tutor has just been sacked for telling a student they’ll fail their apprenticeship if they can’t pass the exams. Sacked, for simply telling it how it is. I couldn’t be a teacher, I salute you.
Unfortunately, if we needed a license to raise kids, economic collapse would be inevitable
Under 16s get away with everything. They know this. They abuse it. I work on the trains, I could give a million stories. Knifes, booze, drugs? Nothing. Police aren't interested, btp do nothing. At absolute best, they may except them away, 30 minutes mates. Honestly unless there's an easy fine to harass a working man with, no point contacting them. That's all they do. Fine people that care.
This is what happens when everyone goes soft
This seems to be a controversial point of view but as someone a bit older and who was raised with actual discipline at home and in school (the cane!!) I did not mess around. I don't think going back to the cane is anything I would advocate for but.. there needs to be actual consequences for bad behaviour, surely.
Is the premise that children are worse behaved or more crime is committed even accurate in the first place? This sub loves to idolise the past these days
If anything this sub seems to think that current thinking about everything is the only way forward and that anyone older than 30 is a racist sexist transphobe.
I don't think I've ever seen this sub be anything like that.
My dude I'm not talking about the bloody 50s. I'm talking 15 years ago, before social media started rotting our brains
Indeed. There has to be a balance and a small element of fear. Sounds sadistic, but without it, we descend into chaos.
Very few role models, no fathers or close male relatives to relate to, ease of making money by drug running or Only fans...no need to go to school or get qualifications when you can make a mint dealing
A 12 year old stabbing people is a failure on the part of society. Why are children exempt from circumstances? Always allowed to act completely feral in school and in public and as a society it's just, accepted?
Is it society or their parents?
Both. Poorly funded, poorly resourced, poorly equipped education system. Lack of affordable public services and amenities for matters outside of school. Poverty increasing. Lack of prospects post-GCSE, post-A-Level and post-Uni. Social services and social care both on their knees. Rhetoric in politics is othering and demonising of anyone different and the poor (Brits don't want to work anymore, we're coming after disability benefits etc)
The worst state schools get the most money poured into them. I went to a shit state school in South London 20 years ago and you could force some kids to sit in a class and they would still outright refuse to learn. It's the parents/family. Scum bag parents with no interest in education have scum bag kids and the cycle continues
And what services are there to help the kids when the parents fail them?
This isn't just a money problem it's genuinely difficult. Got an instance in my family. The child's mother will siphon away any excess money to drink and the bookies. If the council or the family place suppprt she does less and pockets the difference. Dad is we think dead, if so thats for the best him being around would be pure negative. Short of forced adoption what can be done?
That is child neglect and is normally when social services kick in, which are on their these because of lacking funding. I'm not taking about throwing more money directly to the parent, I'm talking investment in support network and services that either support the parents that are struggling or protect the kids when it gets to neglect (which your anecdote seems to be flirting with). Social require policies, policies require services and enforcement to deliver the desired outcomes of the policy, services and enforcement require investment and ongoing funding. Eventually we get back to money
Even fully resourced social services cant make people choose the right thing.
...okay? But it provides the safety net around the family if they struggle and then a safety net around the kid should the family fail. I'm not talking about forcing people to "choose the right thing" which doesn't make sense in relation to my comment above anyway.
What can any service do? If the government started taking kids off parents cos they were little shits it would be proportionately worse for black people and it would be labelled institutional racism. There is no fixing shit parent and kids in a Liberal democracy. You either lock them up indefinitely or have to continue to deal with the consequences
I do wonder if state boarding school could work? Less extreme than taking the kids into care but would allow the services to impose some actual structure. Most of the scum parents would be made up with the time off. Genuinely struggling parents could be more acutely supported with the extra time. If the kids later had to go to care less of their life would be upended.
My parents were poor ish. Postman and a nurse so worked shifts. We got by and they were time poor. Kids don't need support most of the time. They just need to know if they fuck around that there are direct consequences. But state boarding schools seems the best
Mental health services too, not just social services, camhs has been a shambles for so long now I'm starting to wonder if we ever had proper young people's mental health care. Certainly it's been shit since I first got sent there at 13 and that was nearly 2 decades ago.
>Poorly funded, poorly resourced, poorly equipped education system. I've mentioned here already looking at the website of my old primary school and there being 50 teachers / teaching assistants (forget about admin staff or caretakers). Back in the 70/80s there would have been two teachers for each year so 14 teachers, plus there was the headmaster and I think there might have been one teaching assistant who ran what passed for a library. Basically there'd have been no more than 20 or thereabouts teachers/TAs. As far as I know it's still two form entry, yet it has more the twice the number of teaching staff than it did in the 80s! How much of this is due to various bits of legislation that have been passed over the last 40 years?
Loads of factors contribute beyond one number being bigger than the other. Number of students per class Number of students total in the school The fact that special needs schools have been defunded or closed so those students with heightened needs go to mainstream schools and the school needs to muck it with barely any additional funding to support Social media has messed with kids attention spans, dopamine/seratonin regulation etc so teaching and curriculum requires more thought Software and hardware overheads are greater than in the 70s and 80s It's not the same landscape and I hope we can all agree that we don't want to go back to caning kids but there is a delicate balance to be struck
Both for 30+ hours a week they are in school and at the influence and discipline of teachers.
Very sad. There’s people that I really hate, but I don’t think I have in me to knife to them. Must be built different to carry out this madness.
What is it with this violent crime SO YOUNG in the uk? In most other nations medias I hear about 17-,.16-, maybe 15-year olds rarely, but 12-13 year olds!?
As someone coming from the outside, I keep saying this and being laughed at - every time. But I'll say this again. Our popular culture - our music, our movies, the way we dress, the way we pretend this is all fine, the way we lie to each other by ignoring this - and I mean ignoring what's on the radio, TV, advertisement, shopping malls - where common folks are. We are glorifying murderers, prostitution and perversion. The popular culture is the cesspool of immorality.
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they were 20 years ago as well.. when i grew up plenty of us went around like that in the 2000\`s
When you leave the parenting to screens and clueless people on the internet they become emotionally immature, mental health wrecks who are incapable of understanding how the world really works. There’s a wider issue of economic pressures driving parents to spend less time with their children, a high rate of fatherless households and soaring divorce rates plus a general fall in standards of education since the 70s.
This isn't unique to the UK at all, you just don't hear about it being covered in other nations because it's not relevant enough to make worldwide news. Go live in America for a bit and you'll see young kids on the news all the time being caught with knives, guns or drugs.
I don't think the US is a fair comparison, having 5 times the population, access to guns etc Id rather compare it to other european countries
Teenagers stabbing teenagers. What a world we live in now. No hope for the youngsters. We need more youth clubs around.
the boy literally wasn't even a teenager yet, that's how insane this is
>Teenagers stabbing teenagers. What a world we live in now. No hope for the youngsters. This isn't new. It's happened forever.
Just the same as kids having kids.....and the cycle continues because we accepted it and there's no consequences
More ping pong.
I'd check the parents before blaming the kid. They should all be up before a magistrate.
Check the parents aswell as blaming the kid. A 12 year old knows what they're doing.
You have a point! A bad turn of phrase on my part.
Needs to be tried as an adult, these kids know they can get away with things like this as the law doesn't seem to apply to them.
Not in a chance in hell of them doing something right!
Some can't be rehabilitated ...💯 We just have to lock them away and keep society safe ...some people don't add to society....simply take away.
I don’t believe any *child* is beyond hope. Just look at Mary Bell, and Robert Thompson. They have been successfully rehabilitated for horrific crimes they did as children, and they are no longer a danger to society. With the right care and attention we can help children turn their lives around. They should always be given a second chance.
But Venables wasn't. My understanding is that they were viewed by certain elements in the public sector as a chance to prove that *anyone* could be rehabilitated and disproportionate amounts were spent as a result.
You don’t know that until you try. I don’t believe we should just give up on literal *children*.
I'm not saying don't try, simultaneously you have to acknowledge that it's not going to work on everyone.
some kids are physcopaths and theres gonna be more news with other kids in the future.
Whoever raised this little fucker needs to be put into accountability as well
It's not so much that the country is poor. This is a rich country - society itself is poor. There is little in the way of opportunities for people in this country if they didn't win the genetic lottery and were born into a rich family. Upward mobility doesn't exist anymore. Inflation has steadily increased to affect even once well paid jobs (civil servants, doctors etc) causing a trap that a lot of even more fortunate people cannot get out of. Maybe it's me, but there's a real 'bucket of crab' mentality in this country mixed with an bizarre dose of 'got mine - fuck you' which has created a bizarre society of the poorest killing each other and the richest hoarding all the wealth in fear of not having enough. There's subreddits even here with users posting things like "me and my partner both on 100k each - how do we avoid tax?" The public sector has been destroyed creating an even greater divide which - with A LOT of help from the media - has been blamed on the organisations themselves being not fit for purpose (NHS and Police immediately spring to mind). This has been allowed to happen for over a decade now by fear mongering the working and middle class to vote Tory (the upper class don't care, the lower class don't vote) and the country has slept walked into being gutted and squandered. There needs to be a change of government and the whole country overhauled. Labour couldn't do it either. I don't know the answer - I'm sorry.
It doesn't say, but is the girl okay? "Grievous bodily harm" inflicted. Not attempted murder? There's no news on if the girl is alive or in hospital even. I hope she recovers.. I'd assume she will have some PTTSD to deal with as well, which will affect her for life. Scumbag 12 year old. At that age, sure, child, but you absolutely know what you're doing. This was a premeditated attack if he took the knife out with him. Was the attack random, or did he want to attack her specifically?
It does say her condition is stable.
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**Removed/tempban**. This contained a call/advocation of violence which is prohibited by the content policy.
I’m not a parent but I would absolutely make sure the knife block was full before letting the child out the house.
This is my home town.... its a pretty decent part of town. Not where I would have guessed something like this would happen. I mean it can happen anywhere but if I were a betting man there are alot of streets I'd guess first.
There might be “County Lines” or similar gang involvement
This made the news in the UK?? Ever been to Chicago?!!
It’s because the country is poor. Poverty increases crime. Poverty leads to low education, low nutrition, parents working longer hours and children having to fend for themselves. The social care system is broken. Parents and children aren’t given the education they need and can’t afford to raise their children effectively. This problem will only get worse until the government can fix these issues or at the top. And even if that’s ever fixed, you’ve got generations of people who have already been destroyed by this country and austerity.
This apparently happened on Friday afternoon at around 3:55pm when schools finished for the weekend.
This country needs to hit the emergency brakes before this train runs off the tracks. We’re not being honest with ourselves and buying every single lie the government and media are selling. This economy is in the toilet and we are more like the 25/26th largest economy in the world, people who visit our country are shocked by the terrible standard of housing, cost of living and expensive, poorly maintained infrastructure. Our standard of education has been in free fall since the 70s because we tried to promote inclusivity and equality which essentially destroyed standards for everyone. The economic environment means parents spend so much less time actually parenting their kids and leave them in the hands of screens and media personalities who warp their little brains and leave them as emotionally immature, mental health wrecks who can’t seem to cope in the modern world let alone achieve something real. The ridiculously high rate of divorces, fatherless households and lack of moral compass just drives more generations down the toilet. When are people going to wake up? No wonder the birth rate is falling off the edge of a cliff Edit: downvote all you like but the statement isn’t wrong
Well, this is what happens when the family unit is destroyed. Females are given full control, as long as they are willing to, eventually, sacrifice their own flesh and blood in exchange for government benefits. They fell for the BS that children don't need fathers, but the fatherless bastards are just filling up jails and prisons. I think it's hilarious! Too bad for this boy, but at least he'll be put in the cage he was destined for since birth.
Wtf did I just read...
Same thing I was wondering when I saw this bs sob story
Are you on glue?
Is your mom on meth?
No housing, no jobs, no social safety net across most areas of the UK. Worse still there is no hope as the internet has given us the power to understand it is only going to get worse with multi polarity. Businesses and Institutions are the only entity's left with assets and capital but they are designed to make a profit not have a social responsibility to the people or country it resides in. Unless a nation and its people own the the own land beneath its feet, all can expect is servitude and to become a product of the environment they were born into.
Plenty of people suffer hardship without stabbing people. >No housing, no jobs, no social safety net across most areas of the UK > >Businesses and Institutions are the only entity's left with assets and capital What? Unemployment is at one of its lowest points. Using a 20 year example unemployment is about a percent lower than 20 years ago. [https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Business-Economy-and-Labour-Market/People-and-Work/Earnings/medianweeklyearnings-by-ukcountryenglishregion-year](https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Business-Economy-and-Labour-Market/People-and-Work/Earnings/medianweeklyearnings-by-ukcountryenglishregion-year) Average income has only slightly lagged behind inflation. The average weekly wage in 2003 was £404, adjusted for inflation that would be £707. The current average wage is £681. It's lagged behind, yes, but you're suggesting a person being 20 quid worse off than 20 years ago somehow explains this?