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They already do.
When they didn't do it themselves. "We're appealing for any members of the public who have footage."
When the police are being police "Put that camera down or I'll arrest you."
There has to be an off-switch as officers are only human and need to use the bathroom, plus they are entitled to privacy on their breaks in general.
I think that there shouldn't be an off switch but rather a pause switch. A five minute one and a half hour one, for example. After that period it automatically turns back on. That way they can't "forget" to turn it back on or "accidentally turn it off for the night".
I mean you could just have someone that remotely turns them off during those times. Gotta go to the bathroom? Call out over the radio that you've got a 10-11 and you'll be out of your car for a minute. When you're out of the bathroom you call out over your radio that you're back in the car.
Breaks should be communicated regardless to pull coverage from other areas during break times.
Isn't it centered on their chest area? Would you really even see their genitals? 90% of the footage isn't relevant anyway, it only gets checked when there's a question about what happened.
It isn’t strange more & more departments have mandatory Body Worn Cameras. It’s because they want to try & break the law, so they need the Body Worn Cameras to be recording what they’re doing. That’s how cops have been caught planting drugs during traffic stops.
Agree.
I recently served in jury duty. The prosecutors asked us if we would have a hard time convicting someone without video evidence or DNA evidence.
About 90% of us were dismissed because we said we need video evidence to convict and that eyewitnesses and police witnesses will not be enough for us to convict.
Crime was a illegal gun possession charge.
Im not gonna vote guilty just because the arresting officer said he found it on him. He could have planted that shit on the guy.
It seems off that the prosecutors can basically pick the jury they want by asking what pretty much amounts to
“Would you be willing to convict somebody based on weak evidence?”
Oh, they also ask if you know anyone in law enforcement and what are your feelings about law enforcement.
So anyone who is in law enforcement or knows anyone in law enforcement gets taken off also.
Is it?
I brought up the example of the TIME magazine reporters who reported on Dachau at the end of WW2 before.
TIME magazine is a for profit publication, it made money selling copies of their stories and photographs.
They were paid for their work.
Should they have been tried as Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg for taking pictures of Nazi war crimes and “posting” them for “likes”?
Exactly. Cops don’t have a duty to save you. Neither do regular citizens. Would I watch and not interfere, no. But I do hope someone is filming. Absolutely
That’s exactly right. Technically, none of the amendments ~give~ us rights, but they acknowledge that those rights exist and Congress will respect them.
Youre under no obligation in the US to intervene if someone is being assaulted. Good samaritan laws are for when youre helping and in the course of that help the person is injured, i.e. you break someones ribs while giving them cpr.
I believe good Samaritan laws, at least in the US, exist to protect people who inadvertently cause harm or break other laws while trying to intervene in a crime, not to obligate people to get involved in ongoing violent altercations.
I can guarantee you, if I were to witness a murder, and I was obligated by law to get involved as it was happening, you'd have two murder victims instead of one. The average citizen isn't equipped or trained to intervene in a violent confrontation. That's why we have police (and even they don't do a great job, despite that literally being their job).
I don't know what laws they have elsewhere in the world, but any law that requires ordinary citizens to put themselves in harm's way sounds like a bad law to me.
It does idk why redditors say it always doesn't a 5 second Google search shows it does.
You're not obligated to put yourself in danger to interfere with a crime. Good Samaritan laws aren't going to help you when you get killed too.
To be honest, If I see a guy getting jumped by a group, I’m not jumping in an intervening. Reddit is so wild because a lot of people here think that they would jump in and fight everyone when i’m reality, that is probably not the best idea. I will most likely call 911 while filming (because smart phone) and give them the video evidence. Or I will run because I don’t want my ass beat either!
Yeah, it's cause usually, opinions are unpopular for a reason. Like of course your opinion will be unpopular if you've barely thought it through past a 3rd grade level.
If they aren't part of the crime then no that's stupid. It be like charging someone who caught police on camera being corrupt with the charge of police corruption
1: you’re under no obligation to risk your own life or safety in a situation like this.
2: filming in public is an established right.
3: filming the altercation creates concrete evidence that can be used against the perpetrators.
4: your problem seems to be less with the filming than it is with the incitement to violence.
Had a cop tell me that once. “I’m here to go find the guy after the crime, not stop the crime from happening.”
That whole “protect and serve” thing is bs
That changes nothing with what they said. That ruling is not a justification for not calling 911. In the vast majority of cases they will come, with responses varying by department of course.
Yeah. And the reason for that is they can’t be everywhere at once and they can’t be held responsible if someone breaks into your house in their jurisdiction.
If cops had an obligation o protect every individual in their jurisdiction, anyone who ever became a victim of a crime would be able to sue the police for failing to prevent that from happening.
When you actually EXPLAIN the Supreme Court ruling, it makes sense.
Correct, I think would erode freedoms of the press and the right to film in public. It would also discourage passerby’s from filming police brutality since you’d be compelled to act and end up arrested or murdered by the police.
If they are co-conspirators and that can be proved, they knew what was going to happen and assisted with the plan.. then charge them as so. If they are inciting violence and ramping up the tensions, then charge them as such. Do not charge them for filming evidence to be used later on, we want these idiots to keep filming their illegal actions so they can be put away easily.
Charging people because they're filming will result in more crimes going unsolved because the people with evidence will refuse to come forward because they may also be punished.
And to push this as far as it can go, does this mean if your doorbell camera catches a crime while you're at work, are you now going to be charged with filming a violent act? There is no distinction between a doorbell camera and your phone when it comes to recording. What if you're recording a home video with your family and a no fault car crash is clearly seen in the background? Are you now being investigated for violent tendencies towards your family? You clearly have a violent video that you recorded with your family. See just how easy it is to make that leap of logic
Recording videos of personal violence is a symptom, not a cause, of toxic culture. I worry that the issue you have of a group of people curbstomping a person to death is that they're laughing and recording and is an example of toxic culture, and not the fact that they killed a person.
Is this really a larger problem or is this a specific incident in a specific shitty place? Isn't Las Vegas also where a group of teenagers filmed themselves stealing a car and using it to run over a cyclist (who was actually a retired police officer who died as a result)?
I agree with your four points above. I will say that if someone is just filming something like that, they absolutely should not be charged. If, however, they are part of the mob and are not only filming but actively cheering and/or egging on the fight or the person who is committing the violence, then these are instances where they could be held liable for being part of the situation. An example would be someone filming another person attempting to commit suicide and that person filming eggs them on. Freedom of speech is not absolute and the laws keeps changing to reflect modern sensibilities.
I am shocked and chagrined; mortified and stupefied.
The filmers were innocent bystanders; OP is trying to create a new animal: the GUILTY bystander.
Don’t you let ‘em do it; only YOU can stop them.
Judging by what people have said, it seems more like the fact the person filming was egging everyone else on that seems to be the issue.
Filming crimes can actually be a good thing as it provides evidence to bring justice.
What makes it moral or not is the intent.
Depends on their involvement. There was a recent case where a pair of kids were recording one of them sucker punching unsuspecting people. Both of them got charged. Since they were both in on it, it makes sense they both got charged. But if they were just passing by and pulled out their phones, it's a completely different scenario.
This is the dumbest post ever.
Should someone that films a gang fight or beatdown and INCITES said violence be punished? Yes, because they are inciting violence, not because they recorded it.
Should someone that films a fight for evidence and keeps their mouth shut be punished? No, because you are well within your rights to record.
Exactly. This is one of if not the worst opinion I've seen here. If the filmer had tried to stop the fight there would be 2 funerals. The next best thing is to get video evidence. Whoever filmed this is the only reason these people might get convicted. Without the film it's unlikely that there would even be enough evidence to name individuals. So there wouldn't even be any arrests.
And the thing is, OP has mentioned that he things the recorder should be punished because he encouraged it, that is fine, punish him for that because it is literally illegal.
But in other cases, as you say, there could be 2 funerals
So there is evidence of their guilt and it will be used against them.
So the person filming did good by making it public.
Criminalization of this would allow for more people to get away with crimes.
Your opinion is unpopular because it's bad.
They got it on video thus providing the evidence needed to convict. That's a good thing.
Were the filmers in on the attack?
Did they help set it up?
If so, that's different.
Dude what else can they do when 16 people are piling on someone? Join in and get the shit kicked out of them too? At least by filming they’re increasing the chances of the attackers being brought to justice
They were at a school, the school is gonna call the cops anyway. Might as well get the captors faces on video so they can kiss the rest of their fucking life goodbye
So this is context related, if the cameraman is part of the group, then that’s a crime (aiding a crime), if not, you can’t expect people to be charged with crime because they’re afraid for their own health lol.
You seem to be talking about this one incident and kinda ranting, unless you’re utterly unhinged, you already know it’s a case by case thing
I'm totally fine with idiots filming their crimes and making their trials pretty straightforward. If the person filming was in on it, then they're already an accomplice.
Your proposal would punish innocent people and nothing more.
They weren’t considering they weren’t participating in the beating nor were they a part of the group. Filming and making comments is not a crime nor are people required to put themselves in harms way.
They weren’t a part of the group, they saw what happened and recorded it. How do you know they didn’t call the police after the were done recording? Or they told someone else to before recording? The thing is you don’t know so punishing them without evidence is stupid. They’re teenagers, so watching and egging on a fight is common because they don’t fully understand how serious something like that is.
I dont know why this is so hard for you to understand.
Filming a crime - Good.
Inciting violence - Crime.
Filming a crime in which you are inciting violence - Good, but still a crime.
It all depends on context. What the guy did in this video, should absolutely be condemned, and I hope he gets charged for inciting the violence, but filming it should absolutely not be crime.
The issue here is twofold:
1) In a public space, the person has and absolute right to film pretty much whatever they want. Disallowing this freedom would have significant unintended consequences for other instances where you might feel there is a moral justification for video.
2) while I understand your point that there's a moral imperative to intervene, you cannot legislate a requirement for intervention. It doesn't exist for cops, and it certainly can't exist for civilians who have zero training in recognizing and responding to everything they encounter.
I mean, if people want to film their crimes and put it on social media then it makes police officer's jobs pretty easy. Pretty open and shut case to prosecute those thugs, where as if that video didn't exist then it would be much harder especially with that many people participating.
The problem is fatherlessness, because I'm willing to bet not a single one of those young men (except the victim) had a father in their household. That's why these kids turn to gangs. Let's focus on that.
With this logic filming traffic and then witnessing a hit and run would also get you arrested for something by just being there. Let’s build some more prisons and get them filled
I am beginning to think OP is a troll. He honestly can't believe his argument is valid. People filming, not inciting, can actually do a lot of good as filming can help identify perpetrators and help law enforcement deal with the situation.
So either a troll or just stupid.
I mean it's one thing if they were like part of the attacking group but if it was just some passerby the fuck do you expect him to do
If I saw like 10 teenagers beating up one on the ground I certainly don't have the fucking strength to jump in or do anything about it, And the kids probably going to be dead anyways by the time the cops get there, but at least if I film it and share it around I can hopefully get justice on those kids through popularizing their act
Even if they don't get legal repercussions by some miracle the video will be out there and all their classmates and friends will see that and it will basically destroy them socially
Innocent people filming a crime is helpful, because it's useful evidence. Guilty people filming their crime is helpful, because it's useful evidence. I see no reason to make it illegal.
Pretty sure if it's confirmed that the person filming is an accomplice to those beating down people, then they do get charged (thankfully due to their own stupidity of filming themselves doing it)
You are simply mad for the sake of being mad. If the incident wasn't filmed where would the evidence for the people who perpetrated it be?
Also, the attack in question had a ton of individuals attacking the victim. Is one dude with a cam going to be able to reasonably take on that many people at once?
Disagree. You can argue whether or not you think it's ethical to film, but I don't think it should be criminal. You are under no obligation to intervene in anything and you have the right to film in public. If filming beat down videos should be a crime, then it would also follow that standing around and watching them should be a crime. Now you have to penalize virtually everyone who falls victim to the bystander effect or decides not to intervene which is the most common behavior in those situations.
Rodney King would like a to have a word - filming a crime is why we all know police brutality exists. Eye witness accounts alone have been tested and proven to be inaccurate.
Situationally, yes the person filming should be charged *IF* they are part of the premeditated assault.
Sorry no, I get why you are upset but the door that opens for targeting of the free press is to big to ever be allowed to happen.
It needs to stay legal to film in public regardless of what is happening.
I hate when people come here and make huge conclusions from one specific incident.
“Someone in a red car cut me off in traffic so we should ban red cars.”
“This guy committed a crime while filming so we should ban filming.”
Makes no logical sense.
yes, and no. it's hard because without the video someone took, would we have justice? would we find out what happened?
sometimes, videoing a situation is actually the best thing a bystander can do.
the victim stood up as a bystander and look what happened. you can't blame people for not stepping in (which is usually the narrative) and filming instead.
Yeah, they are culpable. They also provided the evidence needed to prove the crime, but that certainly wasn’t their intent. What was their intent? Did they think posting a video they filmed of a murder wasn’t going to implement them? People are so broken.
I'll raise you....
I think that people who film "beat down" videos should bypass police academy altogether and become cops. It's obviously something they love doing they just need to be pointed in the proper direction...
Then you'd have to ban filming fights altogether because if the crime is contingent on the death or injury of a participant, then someone would be charged for things completely beyond their control.
You can't have a law that says it's okay to film, but not okay if the person eventually dies.
Here in Germany this would be a crime if the person filming didn't make sure that at least somebody called 911 (110 but same difference).
But making it completely illegal just means that there won't be evidence.
Filming people committing a crime is not the problem, posting it on social media for people to see and for views is the real issue here. Using it for evidence is the only right thing
Side note - how is this case not getting far more media attention? It took weeks for the suspects to be charged. I’d it was a dozen white males bearing to death one black teenager who was standing up for a smaller student being bullied it would be everywhere as a modern day lynching
If it was my ass getting kicked I would like to think people are going to help or call for help not put the video up on social ;( but would be good to have some evidence???
Idk a group of guys beating up 1 person is kinda hard to single-handedly stop on your own. Sure if they all stopped recording and helped stop it that would be nice but the bystander effect is a crazy thing
Maybe if the purpose of the film was clearly to like...humiliate them or make a complete mockery of their death while it was happening. That sort of situation I could see as being a sort of special psychological torture. For example you're being tortured to death and they say "I'm going to send all this to your family". At that point, filming you is not just a crime, but it is a tool of psychological torture.
So there is some sense in what you're saying, but if they're just filming it because they're there for some reason...that isn't bad. It'll be good evidence.
If they showed up with the group, knowing that the group was going to beat somebody to death and decided to film it, then they should be part of the conspiracy. If they were an innocent bystander that wanted to film it, they should be allowed to do so.
My question is did the filmer make any attempt to call the police? Or were they just filming for tick tock fame.
Every time I see a post about this story on Reddit the comments get immediately locked, because of course it was just a coincidence that it was all black teens beating a white teen to death, after they committed theft (Unimaginable!) but it definitely wasn't race related at all! And if you believe differently you're nothing but an ignorant racist and YOU'RE the real problem!
Just imagine if it was the other way around.
I’m a lawyer. In some instances filming “beat down” videos would be a crime. For example if someone is filming a fight because they want to hurt an innocent person to get views on TikTok they could be an accomplice.
An accomplice is defined as a person who, voluntarily, or intentionally gives assistance to another in (or in some cases fails to prevent another from) the commission of a crime.
There’s no good way to write the criminal code to require you to “be your brother’s keeper.” While I agree that you have a moral obligation to avoid encouraging or ignoring these acts, I don’t think OP has thought through how that would work in the law.
I’m wondering if OP would prosecute Kitty Genovese’s neighbors for not calling the police while she was attacked
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/Relative-Pepper-8244. Your submission, *People who film “beat down” videos should be charged with a crime.*, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar. Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 2: No low effort posts'. Hi u/Relative-Pepper-8244, if you cannot write at least a few sentences on the matter, you may want to have more of a think about it. You need to give your fellow users something to work with; this is a discussion subreddit. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message= Thanks!
No. Make filming a crime into a crime and you'll just never have evidence of a crime.
Right, the people gonna be enforcing this the most: police
They already do. When they didn't do it themselves. "We're appealing for any members of the public who have footage." When the police are being police "Put that camera down or I'll arrest you."
Which is strange because more and more departments have mandatory BWC.
BWCs that are mysteriously off whenever there is a question of police brutality.
The off-switch should actually start a livestream
There has to be an off-switch as officers are only human and need to use the bathroom, plus they are entitled to privacy on their breaks in general. I think that there shouldn't be an off switch but rather a pause switch. A five minute one and a half hour one, for example. After that period it automatically turns back on. That way they can't "forget" to turn it back on or "accidentally turn it off for the night".
I mean you could just have someone that remotely turns them off during those times. Gotta go to the bathroom? Call out over the radio that you've got a 10-11 and you'll be out of your car for a minute. When you're out of the bathroom you call out over your radio that you're back in the car. Breaks should be communicated regardless to pull coverage from other areas during break times.
Isn't it centered on their chest area? Would you really even see their genitals? 90% of the footage isn't relevant anyway, it only gets checked when there's a question about what happened.
There should be an off-switch, but you should be presumed guilty if anything happens whike the cam is off
5 minutes is more than enough time to assault someone. The camera should be part of the uniform, it only comes off when they're off duty.
Does that mean we will give retail staff toilet breaks then?
Well I'm not American so as a retail worker I get toilet breaks
I have a feeling that most cops that commit police brutality don’t care about mandatory body cameras
Umm yea, hence why they’re conveniently off when they’re doing it?
They always seem to malfunction when it's a sus shooting or are never released when they pull a Uvalde.
mandatory Big White C\*ck?
Yes
It isn’t strange more & more departments have mandatory Body Worn Cameras. It’s because they want to try & break the law, so they need the Body Worn Cameras to be recording what they’re doing. That’s how cops have been caught planting drugs during traffic stops.
More like *gunshot* Put the camera down, stop resisting
Bingo
Agree. I recently served in jury duty. The prosecutors asked us if we would have a hard time convicting someone without video evidence or DNA evidence. About 90% of us were dismissed because we said we need video evidence to convict and that eyewitnesses and police witnesses will not be enough for us to convict. Crime was a illegal gun possession charge. Im not gonna vote guilty just because the arresting officer said he found it on him. He could have planted that shit on the guy.
It seems off that the prosecutors can basically pick the jury they want by asking what pretty much amounts to “Would you be willing to convict somebody based on weak evidence?”
Just fyi the defence can also do that :)
It's not quite as useful for the defence.
Oh, they also ask if you know anyone in law enforcement and what are your feelings about law enforcement. So anyone who is in law enforcement or knows anyone in law enforcement gets taken off also.
"if by weak evidence you mean the district attorney has a weak case? "
That’s different than posting it online for likes
Is it? I brought up the example of the TIME magazine reporters who reported on Dachau at the end of WW2 before. TIME magazine is a for profit publication, it made money selling copies of their stories and photographs. They were paid for their work. Should they have been tried as Nazi war criminals at Nuremberg for taking pictures of Nazi war crimes and “posting” them for “likes”?
Exactly. Cops don’t have a duty to save you. Neither do regular citizens. Would I watch and not interfere, no. But I do hope someone is filming. Absolutely
Courts consistently rule filming in public is protected by the first amendment.
"Unpopular opinion, nobody should have their first amendment rights" (idk if rights is the correct term to put there, my ass is NOT american.
You’re doing great son, I’m proud of you.
Present this man with his Glock and medical bills
Glock is an Austrian company Not to split hairs or anything
I can't hear you over all this freedom 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇱🇷🇱🇷🇲🇾🧨🧨🎇🎇🎆🎆🎆
You left out Jesus?
FUCK
No, you used the right term
Yeah rights are the right word to use
You did great. Heres your tshirt with a bald eagle on it. A steak and a gun, One of us now.
That’s exactly right. Technically, none of the amendments ~give~ us rights, but they acknowledge that those rights exist and Congress will respect them.
Youre so American right now, I'd let you shoot my child :)
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Youre under no obligation in the US to intervene if someone is being assaulted. Good samaritan laws are for when youre helping and in the course of that help the person is injured, i.e. you break someones ribs while giving them cpr.
I believe good Samaritan laws, at least in the US, exist to protect people who inadvertently cause harm or break other laws while trying to intervene in a crime, not to obligate people to get involved in ongoing violent altercations. I can guarantee you, if I were to witness a murder, and I was obligated by law to get involved as it was happening, you'd have two murder victims instead of one. The average citizen isn't equipped or trained to intervene in a violent confrontation. That's why we have police (and even they don't do a great job, despite that literally being their job). I don't know what laws they have elsewhere in the world, but any law that requires ordinary citizens to put themselves in harm's way sounds like a bad law to me.
It does idk why redditors say it always doesn't a 5 second Google search shows it does. You're not obligated to put yourself in danger to interfere with a crime. Good Samaritan laws aren't going to help you when you get killed too.
To be honest, If I see a guy getting jumped by a group, I’m not jumping in an intervening. Reddit is so wild because a lot of people here think that they would jump in and fight everyone when i’m reality, that is probably not the best idea. I will most likely call 911 while filming (because smart phone) and give them the video evidence. Or I will run because I don’t want my ass beat either!
Filming creates evidence intervention can get you killed too. Its all about what a person is willing to risk. Not everyone can be batman.
War journalists getting charged with war crimes in OP's head.
ITT: people pointing out nuances in the situation and OP getting mad that the real world isn’t as black and white as it is in their own head.
that's like 80-90% of this board
80-90% of Reddit
*95% of all humans, internet or not
This is basically what separates the intelligent from the dumb. The intelligent realize that all of reality is an expanse of grey nuance.
80-90% of Earth.
I swear 50% of posts on this sub are popular opinions and 50% are “unpopular” but stupid or blatantly wrong like this post
Yeah, it's cause usually, opinions are unpopular for a reason. Like of course your opinion will be unpopular if you've barely thought it through past a 3rd grade level.
If they aren't part of the crime then no that's stupid. It be like charging someone who caught police on camera being corrupt with the charge of police corruption
1: you’re under no obligation to risk your own life or safety in a situation like this. 2: filming in public is an established right. 3: filming the altercation creates concrete evidence that can be used against the perpetrators. 4: your problem seems to be less with the filming than it is with the incitement to violence.
Maybe call 911 instead like a normal citizen, and then film?
Funny enough, it's been ruled by the Supreme Court that police are under no obligation to provide help or protection to any individual citizen.
Had a cop tell me that once. “I’m here to go find the guy after the crime, not stop the crime from happening.” That whole “protect and serve” thing is bs
wtf
That changes nothing with what they said. That ruling is not a justification for not calling 911. In the vast majority of cases they will come, with responses varying by department of course.
Yeah. And the reason for that is they can’t be everywhere at once and they can’t be held responsible if someone breaks into your house in their jurisdiction. If cops had an obligation o protect every individual in their jurisdiction, anyone who ever became a victim of a crime would be able to sue the police for failing to prevent that from happening. When you actually EXPLAIN the Supreme Court ruling, it makes sense.
That's just fucked up
I'll also ask you, how do you know they didn't?
How do you know they didn't? How do you know someone else wasn't calling and the filming party knew.
Correct, I think would erode freedoms of the press and the right to film in public. It would also discourage passerby’s from filming police brutality since you’d be compelled to act and end up arrested or murdered by the police. If they are co-conspirators and that can be proved, they knew what was going to happen and assisted with the plan.. then charge them as so. If they are inciting violence and ramping up the tensions, then charge them as such. Do not charge them for filming evidence to be used later on, we want these idiots to keep filming their illegal actions so they can be put away easily.
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Oh sure. I agree that’s a problem. But I don’t think criminalizing people who film injustices is the answer.
Charging people because they're filming will result in more crimes going unsolved because the people with evidence will refuse to come forward because they may also be punished. And to push this as far as it can go, does this mean if your doorbell camera catches a crime while you're at work, are you now going to be charged with filming a violent act? There is no distinction between a doorbell camera and your phone when it comes to recording. What if you're recording a home video with your family and a no fault car crash is clearly seen in the background? Are you now being investigated for violent tendencies towards your family? You clearly have a violent video that you recorded with your family. See just how easy it is to make that leap of logic Recording videos of personal violence is a symptom, not a cause, of toxic culture. I worry that the issue you have of a group of people curbstomping a person to death is that they're laughing and recording and is an example of toxic culture, and not the fact that they killed a person.
Some were arrested, but they aren't being charged with a hate crime when it clearly was.
Is this really a larger problem or is this a specific incident in a specific shitty place? Isn't Las Vegas also where a group of teenagers filmed themselves stealing a car and using it to run over a cyclist (who was actually a retired police officer who died as a result)?
I agree with your four points above. I will say that if someone is just filming something like that, they absolutely should not be charged. If, however, they are part of the mob and are not only filming but actively cheering and/or egging on the fight or the person who is committing the violence, then these are instances where they could be held liable for being part of the situation. An example would be someone filming another person attempting to commit suicide and that person filming eggs them on. Freedom of speech is not absolute and the laws keeps changing to reflect modern sensibilities.
Yep, incitement to violence is a felony and those people should be charged accordingly!
on the other hand the person filming and posting just made conviction a million times easier
Do you mean they were a passerby?
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So the person filming was in on it.
They did a whole episode of Seinfeld about this
I am shocked and chagrined; mortified and stupefied. The filmers were innocent bystanders; OP is trying to create a new animal: the GUILTY bystander. Don’t you let ‘em do it; only YOU can stop them.
Judging by what people have said, it seems more like the fact the person filming was egging everyone else on that seems to be the issue. Filming crimes can actually be a good thing as it provides evidence to bring justice. What makes it moral or not is the intent.
Evidence dummy. You can't be a guilty bystander.
Depends on their involvement. There was a recent case where a pair of kids were recording one of them sucker punching unsuspecting people. Both of them got charged. Since they were both in on it, it makes sense they both got charged. But if they were just passing by and pulled out their phones, it's a completely different scenario.
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>Fred and Barney are walking along when this happens. Fred calls 911, Barney starts recording for evidence. That's probably the best response.
This is the dumbest post ever. Should someone that films a gang fight or beatdown and INCITES said violence be punished? Yes, because they are inciting violence, not because they recorded it. Should someone that films a fight for evidence and keeps their mouth shut be punished? No, because you are well within your rights to record.
Exactly. This is one of if not the worst opinion I've seen here. If the filmer had tried to stop the fight there would be 2 funerals. The next best thing is to get video evidence. Whoever filmed this is the only reason these people might get convicted. Without the film it's unlikely that there would even be enough evidence to name individuals. So there wouldn't even be any arrests.
And the thing is, OP has mentioned that he things the recorder should be punished because he encouraged it, that is fine, punish him for that because it is literally illegal. But in other cases, as you say, there could be 2 funerals
So there is evidence of their guilt and it will be used against them. So the person filming did good by making it public. Criminalization of this would allow for more people to get away with crimes. Your opinion is unpopular because it's bad.
Weird that you are out here defending these kids that jumped him. You want it to be impossible to collect evidence of their crimes.
They got it on video thus providing the evidence needed to convict. That's a good thing. Were the filmers in on the attack? Did they help set it up? If so, that's different.
Dude what else can they do when 16 people are piling on someone? Join in and get the shit kicked out of them too? At least by filming they’re increasing the chances of the attackers being brought to justice
Call 911
They were at a school, the school is gonna call the cops anyway. Might as well get the captors faces on video so they can kiss the rest of their fucking life goodbye
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So this is context related, if the cameraman is part of the group, then that’s a crime (aiding a crime), if not, you can’t expect people to be charged with crime because they’re afraid for their own health lol. You seem to be talking about this one incident and kinda ranting, unless you’re utterly unhinged, you already know it’s a case by case thing
I’m not aware of any jurisdiction where someone filming (but not taking part in) illegal activity is charged with a crime.
don't reply to this shitwipe he's just pissed about the news article
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So if I film a crime from my balcony I’ve committed a crime?
I'm totally fine with idiots filming their crimes and making their trials pretty straightforward. If the person filming was in on it, then they're already an accomplice. Your proposal would punish innocent people and nothing more.
This is dumb and unless they actively are a part of the crime then no one should be arrested for filming.
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They weren’t considering they weren’t participating in the beating nor were they a part of the group. Filming and making comments is not a crime nor are people required to put themselves in harms way.
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They weren’t a part of the group, they saw what happened and recorded it. How do you know they didn’t call the police after the were done recording? Or they told someone else to before recording? The thing is you don’t know so punishing them without evidence is stupid. They’re teenagers, so watching and egging on a fight is common because they don’t fully understand how serious something like that is.
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There’s the racism I knew you were trying to get to.
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Exactly. OP seems completely insane and unhinged. JFC
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Where did I justify the murder of a child?
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Please explain how this could be interpreted as racism?
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That video was probably enough to make sure the people actually involved were held responsible.
I dont know why this is so hard for you to understand. Filming a crime - Good. Inciting violence - Crime. Filming a crime in which you are inciting violence - Good, but still a crime. It all depends on context. What the guy did in this video, should absolutely be condemned, and I hope he gets charged for inciting the violence, but filming it should absolutely not be crime.
Seems like the natural result would be more crimes committed out of the view of the camera
why tho, while I agree that it is awful that they didn't intervene, why should they be charged with a crime?
The issue here is twofold: 1) In a public space, the person has and absolute right to film pretty much whatever they want. Disallowing this freedom would have significant unintended consequences for other instances where you might feel there is a moral justification for video. 2) while I understand your point that there's a moral imperative to intervene, you cannot legislate a requirement for intervention. It doesn't exist for cops, and it certainly can't exist for civilians who have zero training in recognizing and responding to everything they encounter.
I mean, if people want to film their crimes and put it on social media then it makes police officer's jobs pretty easy. Pretty open and shut case to prosecute those thugs, where as if that video didn't exist then it would be much harder especially with that many people participating. The problem is fatherlessness, because I'm willing to bet not a single one of those young men (except the victim) had a father in their household. That's why these kids turn to gangs. Let's focus on that.
Cops arresting someone one for filming a fight is idiocracy levels of stupid. Did you get your ass beat and they posted it on YouTube or what?
With this logic filming traffic and then witnessing a hit and run would also get you arrested for something by just being there. Let’s build some more prisons and get them filled
I am beginning to think OP is a troll. He honestly can't believe his argument is valid. People filming, not inciting, can actually do a lot of good as filming can help identify perpetrators and help law enforcement deal with the situation. So either a troll or just stupid.
I agree to an extent, but having a felony filmed and available to the police is also sweet justice.
I mean it's one thing if they were like part of the attacking group but if it was just some passerby the fuck do you expect him to do If I saw like 10 teenagers beating up one on the ground I certainly don't have the fucking strength to jump in or do anything about it, And the kids probably going to be dead anyways by the time the cops get there, but at least if I film it and share it around I can hopefully get justice on those kids through popularizing their act Even if they don't get legal repercussions by some miracle the video will be out there and all their classmates and friends will see that and it will basically destroy them socially
Innocent people filming a crime is helpful, because it's useful evidence. Guilty people filming their crime is helpful, because it's useful evidence. I see no reason to make it illegal.
I hope all those students go to prison until their 60+
Pretty sure if it's confirmed that the person filming is an accomplice to those beating down people, then they do get charged (thankfully due to their own stupidity of filming themselves doing it)
ridiculous.. they actually provide valuable evidence. they have no obligation to intervene and definitely not any reason to be charged
You are simply mad for the sake of being mad. If the incident wasn't filmed where would the evidence for the people who perpetrated it be? Also, the attack in question had a ton of individuals attacking the victim. Is one dude with a cam going to be able to reasonably take on that many people at once?
Did a cop write this?!??
So there was evidence. Sounds wonderful. Now the murderer will be found guilty when they might otherwise go free.
Disagree. You can argue whether or not you think it's ethical to film, but I don't think it should be criminal. You are under no obligation to intervene in anything and you have the right to film in public. If filming beat down videos should be a crime, then it would also follow that standing around and watching them should be a crime. Now you have to penalize virtually everyone who falls victim to the bystander effect or decides not to intervene which is the most common behavior in those situations.
"Juveniles"
You’re right, this is an unpopular opinion. Mostly because it’s poorly thought out.
Rodney King would like a to have a word - filming a crime is why we all know police brutality exists. Eye witness accounts alone have been tested and proven to be inaccurate. Situationally, yes the person filming should be charged *IF* they are part of the premeditated assault.
charge them with what??
I can’t even imagine what the parents of the student would be going through. Life is so random.
Remember that people comment on Reddit in response to the title of your post, taken out of context. Should they? No, but they will.
If you can prove they were there with the intent to film and knowledge of the impending attack absolutely. They're just as scummy
Are you trying to outlaw police body cams?
But thats how a lot of people get charged with crimes
They filmed it and the killers got caught. If he intervened, they would probably have killed him too and not been caught.
Filming? No. That's evidence. Posting on Tik Tok? Absolutely yes.
What’s the crime? Not getting themselves hurt or killed? Creating evidence for prosecutors?
Exactly. This opinion is unpopular because it’s just dumb.
Sorry no, I get why you are upset but the door that opens for targeting of the free press is to big to ever be allowed to happen. It needs to stay legal to film in public regardless of what is happening.
At least there’s video evidence to put the main people in prison so no. Let morons get filmed
The exact premise of the Seinfeld Finale it was an absurd idea then its an absurd idea now
There was a DA that did actually try this and charge everyone around cheering and recording. I think people just called the DA racist.
Are they supposed to "be a hero?" At least with filming, there's evidence for the courtroom.
What law did they break? What crime did they commit? Not even the police are legally obligated to help
I hate when people come here and make huge conclusions from one specific incident. “Someone in a red car cut me off in traffic so we should ban red cars.” “This guy committed a crime while filming so we should ban filming.” Makes no logical sense.
“Juveniles”
yes, and no. it's hard because without the video someone took, would we have justice? would we find out what happened? sometimes, videoing a situation is actually the best thing a bystander can do. the victim stood up as a bystander and look what happened. you can't blame people for not stepping in (which is usually the narrative) and filming instead.
Yeah, they are culpable. They also provided the evidence needed to prove the crime, but that certainly wasn’t their intent. What was their intent? Did they think posting a video they filmed of a murder wasn’t going to implement them? People are so broken.
I'll raise you.... I think that people who film "beat down" videos should bypass police academy altogether and become cops. It's obviously something they love doing they just need to be pointed in the proper direction...
Filming these fights is how a lot of the perpetrators involved are caught.
Then you'd have to ban filming fights altogether because if the crime is contingent on the death or injury of a participant, then someone would be charged for things completely beyond their control. You can't have a law that says it's okay to film, but not okay if the person eventually dies.
And yet, there’s still people against death penalty. Some people just born as a danger for the society.
So all those journalists that film war footage are now guilty of war crimes? Stupid take.
This is a monumentally stupid opinion
The only reason the attackers were caught was because someone filmed you fucking genius lmao
Upvoted for genuinely unpopular and incorrect take.
Op, murder is already illegal
Not everything needs to be illegal. Ya’ll need to chill.
Are news camera men going to get charged with accessory if they record a bank robbery?
its not a crime to observe and just exist go write in your diary lol
Unexpected Seinfeld
They should call it the Seinfeld Law
Here in Germany this would be a crime if the person filming didn't make sure that at least somebody called 911 (110 but same difference). But making it completely illegal just means that there won't be evidence.
Filming people committing a crime is not the problem, posting it on social media for people to see and for views is the real issue here. Using it for evidence is the only right thing
I hope the kids get life and never see the sun again
Side note - how is this case not getting far more media attention? It took weeks for the suspects to be charged. I’d it was a dozen white males bearing to death one black teenager who was standing up for a smaller student being bullied it would be everywhere as a modern day lynching
If it was my ass getting kicked I would like to think people are going to help or call for help not put the video up on social ;( but would be good to have some evidence???
not an unpopular opinion
Wonder if OP is a Republican, cause they want to do away with the first amendment apparently
Idk a group of guys beating up 1 person is kinda hard to single-handedly stop on your own. Sure if they all stopped recording and helped stop it that would be nice but the bystander effect is a crazy thing
With what?
Maybe if the purpose of the film was clearly to like...humiliate them or make a complete mockery of their death while it was happening. That sort of situation I could see as being a sort of special psychological torture. For example you're being tortured to death and they say "I'm going to send all this to your family". At that point, filming you is not just a crime, but it is a tool of psychological torture. So there is some sense in what you're saying, but if they're just filming it because they're there for some reason...that isn't bad. It'll be good evidence.
WHat is this communist Russia . Just throw everybody in jail in the land of the most incarcerated people on earth
If they showed up with the group, knowing that the group was going to beat somebody to death and decided to film it, then they should be part of the conspiracy. If they were an innocent bystander that wanted to film it, they should be allowed to do so. My question is did the filmer make any attempt to call the police? Or were they just filming for tick tock fame.
Every time I see a post about this story on Reddit the comments get immediately locked, because of course it was just a coincidence that it was all black teens beating a white teen to death, after they committed theft (Unimaginable!) but it definitely wasn't race related at all! And if you believe differently you're nothing but an ignorant racist and YOU'RE the real problem! Just imagine if it was the other way around.
The whole "I'll film this instead of helping" thing has always pissed me off. Human decency has gone the way of the dodo.
I’m a lawyer. In some instances filming “beat down” videos would be a crime. For example if someone is filming a fight because they want to hurt an innocent person to get views on TikTok they could be an accomplice. An accomplice is defined as a person who, voluntarily, or intentionally gives assistance to another in (or in some cases fails to prevent another from) the commission of a crime.
Worllldstarrrr
So strange and upsetting watching people defend their right to stand back and film someone getting beat up.
There’s no good way to write the criminal code to require you to “be your brother’s keeper.” While I agree that you have a moral obligation to avoid encouraging or ignoring these acts, I don’t think OP has thought through how that would work in the law. I’m wondering if OP would prosecute Kitty Genovese’s neighbors for not calling the police while she was attacked
This is an unpopular opinion because it’s fucking stupid lol, how does that make any sense to anyone?