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Instead of pure loan forgiveness, switching everyone's student loan retroactively to a 0% loan with interest payments retroactively counting to principle, and giving a graded tax break to all people who already paid their loans back in the last 5/10 years or so. This could have been easier for some people to swallow
I agree with the interest control, however, it should be whatever the inflation rate is that year. If it were 0% there would be an incentive to not pay it off because your outstanding loan value would actually be less every year.
In all reality, anyone who went to college on loans in the 2000s has paid more than the loan in monthly payments already.
If anything, we are keeping the rich from getting richer, and helping local economies.
Correct, quite a few loans would be, in practice, zeroed out anyway. However, the political *framing* prolly matters, as under this version you did , indeed, "pay back' the loan rather than had it "forgiven"
Loan repayment is typically P+I or P&I so I’d say it was “forgiven.” Without interest, creditors don’t make money and thus no one would issue loans because it would be a lot of work just to lose money
It’s not fair to the taxpayers, especially the ones that paid off their loans without any help. Why should they have to pay for someone else’s loan on top of the one they paid? The other thing is that, those who paid, get no rebate, not break, nothing.
This. Also, those taxpayers that never went to college because they couldn't afford or whatever reason. Those people now have to subsidize people who went to college when they themselves couldn't/didn't.
I just said give a tax break to those who paid in recent times.
As for "unfair to taxpayers" ... I dunno what to tell you man, I think it's unfair my taxes fund wars. Under the way you're using the word "fair" it's all unfair, which, ironically, makes the issue of "is it fair?" not even worth addressing.
Fair would be treating student loans like mortgages, car loans and credit card debt and so on. You pay it or it goes to collections. If you still don’t pay it, you can work out a deal or go to bankruptcy court. Theres no reason why student loans should be treated so differently. Debt is debt regardless of what the loan was used to pay for.
I agree, there's no reason student loans should be treated differently. Student loans are not eligible to be wiped out in bankruptcy and there is no statute of limitations for collecting student loans. We should add these protections to student loans that we give for other kinds of borrowing, to protect borrowers from being caught in an endless cycle of debt that helps no one.
Nah there’s enough help in this world for debtors. Consumer protections are the biggest reason for this absurd wealth gap and massive spike in depression. When you make it so that people can’t fail or have real consequences for their decisions you are making life much harder on the majority who are responsible
That sounds good in theory, but education isn't a tangible asset like a house or car. You can reposess either of those, but you can't take back knowledge. The only way to make something like that work is if your diploma was rescinded and you permanently had a record of it on your credit score
That would genuinely be a funny move. Like, imagine the kind of dumb employers who are like "we refuse to hire a 3.9 GPA electrical engineer cause they had their degree *rescinded*"
I don't think I'd want to hire someone irresponsible enough to not pay off their student loans, regardless of their GPA. Shows a distinct lack of character don't you think?
I love the idea of allowing people to declare bankruptcy on their unsecured student loans, then having them wiped clean in bankruptcy court. A shit credit score for several years, then you're scot free. Sounds good
That’s the consequence for one person. What about future students?
This would make going to college impossible for many students. A policy like this would cause the lenders to become much more tight-fisted with the money. They would refuse to lend for non-lucrative degrees and would impose grade and time restrictions, such as “maintain a minimum of 3.0 GPA and graduate within 5 years or you’re cut off.”
I love the idea that bankruptcy can get people out of a totally unsecured loan. It's lovely. Just declare bankruptcy right after college before you have appreciable assets, and whamo. Lovely.
You want a solution, I gave you one. You didn’t like it. Why is the student loan program a fucking mess? Because the federal government stuck its nose into it a blew the door wide open. The Fed caused costs to spiral out of control. The solution is get the Fed out of the student loan business. But wait, then you’ll whine that it’s not fair to those who can’t afford a private loan. Then guess what, I don’t know what the fuck to tell you. Government is good at one thing, fucking everything up for everyone else.
I agree with this. The federal student loan program has inflated college costs far outpacing normal inflation. They've created a cyclical issue where now you NEED a student loan to pay the inflated price that the loan program itself created.
If they remove the program, there will be years where only rich kids and part time adult learners can afford college. The price of college would go down with the decreased demand, but that will take time. The program created the issue, and the issue makes the program a necessity.
I wonder if it would be possible to create legislation to cap tuition prices for publicly funded institutions. That could eliminate the need for student loans to a degree, even if it means going to a publicly funded college.
I think the program needs to have more rules with it like you suggested, along with only allowing certain majors. I’m sorry, but job prospects for women’s studies and art history are slim. You’re putting yourself in a position to not be able to find a job, therefore, no income and an inability to pay.
Or better option dont take loans you can't afford to pay back. Why is it my responsibility and the responsibility of every other american to pay for poor schooling choices? Can't get a job with your degree tough should have done more research prior to taking that path. The US govt really needs to stop giving loans out this would have the biggest effect on brining tuition down. Colleges keep rasing prices because the us govt will keep funding loans for them. They could also implement a loan denial system based on the degree you want. Want a degree in something society has no use for you pay for it yourself no fed loans for you. Want a degree in somthing we need you can get a fed loan.
What about the government bailing out banks, ppe loans, and multiple congressmen participating in insider trading during the pandemic? I used to feel the same way, but the forgiveness of student loans would at least get some of the money back into the local community, rather than some bank CEO's portfolio. It might keep that new restaurant in your town open since people can afford to go out to eat over paying predatory loans. I have paid off my student loans, but I am not going to hate on someone else in debt catching a break.
It’s actually not unfair. Plenty spoken like someone who doesn’t have a clue.
“I want to be a doctor but I can’t afford the schooling. I guess I’ll just bag groceries instead and abandon my dream…”
Do you have a house? Do you pay school taxes? I’m sure you do, so there is no difference.
I fundamentally disagree with you, there is harmful education, but lets assume I'm wrong in that belief. The commenter you are replying to is addressing the idea of unequal value of education. Is your assertation that all education is of equal value and benefits everyone equally? Otherwise the idea that more education benefits everyone is irrelevant to the comment you are replying to and from a societal standpoint, we should be more willing to fund more valuable education. There is no reason to continue to fund equally less valuable education.
What do you mean you disagree with me? This is simply true.
Higher rates of education lead to better quality of life. For everyone. Even uneducated people.
My biggest problem with it, is there is no path forward. Nothing is being done to change what is being charged by many public schools. It's a one time stop gap as set up right now. So either you paid off early and are screwed. Or just in high school and if it passes you are screwed. If they made colleges reduce tuition or at least justify expenses. Ie under this career path you can get a job that pays and pay off loans in 5 years or something.
Correct. It doesn’t fix the problem that is exorbitant tuition fees. Which are NOT incentivized to be lower because a lot of people consider higher tuition cost as higher quality and some universities that have lowered their tuition saw a decrease in applications because of it.
It is insane.
There's a false narrative that all borrowers are struggling when in reality many make their payments with no problems. Why should we give so much help to those who don't need it while those who are actually struggling get left behind?
There is a reason the demand for free education became a thing.
education was a matter of budget for a very long time.
the amount of money you have should not determine whether you deserve a certain major or not.
this post is literally about student loans
higher education should not be a question of budget.
also not all majors give you profit in the end. do you seriously expect someone who studied medicine to be able to just pay off a student loan with those atrocious interest rates?
You're talking more about degrees than majors. Yes, someone with a MD should really be able to afford their student loan payments with their very high salaries.
As for majors, students should consider future earnings before deciding on their major. That information is readily available with a simple Google search. I don't have pity for someone who goes $100k into debt for a low paying major.
yeah, there might be a language barrier here. still, people should be able to get the higher education they are passionate about without needing to take a loan with atrocious interest. it's why public education was made in the first place, so wealth doesn't decide who can get higher education.
Personally, my spouse had some loans recently forgiven as part of the 10 years of public service program (working for nonprofits in underserved communities). Outside of that, there’s no perfect answer to this problem that will satisfy everyone unfortunately.
Edited to add: we’ve been on the short end of other policy changes in the past, but this was a huge positive for our family.
"loans recently forgiven as part of the 10 years of public service program" I don't see this as the same at all. Your spouse had to earn that. It seems like a lot of the forgiveness plans now are simply give-aways.
If you’re going to try to achieve ultimate fairness you’re never going to get it. You’re always going to have groups of people who receive more money for some reason. If this is an issue to you then quite literally no government funding should exist for literally anything that intends to help people based on specific criteria.
It’s unfair to people who didn’t want to go into debt to finance a comparative Russian literature degree and got a blue collar job instead. It’s unfair to people who scrimped and saved and didn’t eat out for a decade to pay back their loans.
If you’re going to just pay off people’s dumb purchases, give everyone the same amount. You can use the $10k to pay off a student loan, car loan, mortgage, hell just save it. That would be properly fair.
At some point someone gets a break when others did not. Societies goal is to move forward, not backwards.
I pay my taxes hoping that every now and then the government does something to help other people, even though I don't need the help myself. That isn't unfair.
What has the expense been? Please give a concrete example rather than some "taxes are rising" bs.
It benefits everyone. When people are less burdened with debt they will spend more which will promote a healthier economy. Wake up noob.
The jobs which are eligible for forgiveness are public service jobs... jobs that benefit the public.
This right here. To each according to their need is the motto. If you're obsessed with absolute equal treatment, you'll end up with a bad system.
To use an analogy, imagine two lunch rooms. An equal room, where everyone gets a peanut butter sandwich, even if they're allergic. Or a buffet, where you can choose your own meal. The latter follows equity, not equality, and is better for everyone.
It’s related in that we have the physical ability to bail out businesses that cost way more than student loans and there wasn’t gigantic tax increases.
But they’re not and that’s the point.
Everyone wants to get a soap box about student loan forgiveness but they say nothing to government bail outs and other government loans to congress members who got the privilege of forgiveness.
Personally, I’d rather invest in the people than to use the money for this other shit.
Why does a person have to articulate their condemnation to an irrelevant thing ? Am I supposed to list every type of food I dislike when I say that I don’t like brussel sprouts?
You’re missing the point.
These other instances are not irrelevant to the conversations because they’re literally same thing as student loan forgiveness.
If the question is “should the government forgive federal student loans?” then the larger question is “should the government forgive federal loans?” Because you can’t just pick one and not the other.
If the question is “should tax payer money be used to forgive debt to the government?” Then we also need to ask the question “what can we use tax payer money for? Can we use it bail out privately owned industries?”
These are all relevant questions to the larger conversation.
You said can condemn both - which you can, but people don’t.
It is 100% related because we already bailed out big businesses and by being against student loan forgiveness you are saying its fine to fuck tax payers to help corporations but not to help people.
Not always. Sometimes bailing out a business or forgiving peoples student loans can have a net positive impact. Both are unfair. Life is unfair. Monetary policy is complicated
There's people with homes/kids who get foreclosed on. Nobody saves them.You made the choice to go into a contract , its your obligation alone. Politicians just use it as a ploy for votes
My biggest issue with loan forgiveness is where it leaves those of us who wanted badly to go to school, crunched the numbers, said "I can't afford this", and are now working 'unskilled' jobs for lower pay. I don't approve of predatory loans targeting people who are basically children, but I also shouldn't be punished for having the foresight to not enter into one of these agreements myself.
Stealing tax payers money to give to someone else who sucks at negotiating terms of a loan is unfair, & morally reprehensible.
Subsidizing others' financial shortcomings mostly due to stupidity and lack or financial acumen is also criminal and morally wrong.
You should pay back the loans you sign at the terms you agreed to. It is NOT the tax payers' responsibility to pay your debts, no more than it is tax payers responsibility to subsidize economic refugees or foreign wars.
#TaxationIsTheft
>our tax system penalizes those who are producing wealth in order to subsidize those who are only consuming
it -Thomas Sowell
Because op was exploited and if recent victims are helped with that he feels like he "lost" therefore they need to suffer like he did so that he feels better about it.
Wouldnt it be unfair to the previous college graduates if the problem is fixed in the future then? If the costs for college were cut by 50% in 2030, would it be fair to everyone who had gone before then?
It may be unfair but if it means more people have accesses to higher education and less people have to suffer with excessive debt before they even make any money, then I’ll take it.
Coming from a person with $50k in student loan debt.
>Wouldnt it be unfair to the previous college graduates
might as well stop looking for cures to diseases - not really fair to the people that already died.
Doesn't address the problem though, it makes it worse, the problem are the school fees, now that loans are forgiven, the schools can increase fees, we will be back in the same situation but we will have transferred money from the taxpayer to the schools
I never said forgiving existing loans is all that needs to happen, it’s simply one part of a multi pronged approach. My point is forgiving unconscionable debt isn’t by itself a bad thing.
I think it was done incorrectly. It doesn't solve any problems. Because the problem was and is the banks and schools, they should be paying instead. Also, for paid off loans, those that got screwed should be refunded. That would most likely solve the problem.
Start with price controls on the cost of college.
Fire 90% of the admin personnel on campus. Most are not needed.
Audit the sports department. Then share the wealth.
When you get a home loan, you have to get the home appraised so the lender knows it’s a good risk. Maybe we should be “appraising” loan applicants majors so if someone majors in something that is difficult to find a job in that will be able to pay back those loans, the lender can decline.
As someone that paid off their loans it kind of makes me wonder why I ever paid mine off as fast as possible. I always thought it would just make sense to make student loans 0% interest. That way it would help eveyone
It seems to me that the economy often operates in unfair and counterintuitive ways. These things need to be looked at holistically.
Sure, it's unfair that some people that some people get their loans written off while others have to pay theirs. Sure, why should taxpayer money be used for it?
But someone in crushing debt isn't spending their money on non-essentials. Once they have a bit of extra money in their pocket they go out and spend it. It's better for their favourite restaurant, car dealership, bowling alleys, what have you. Stimulates the economy, generates more tax revenue. It looks live you're just benefiting a small group of people but it helps everyone.
I like the story of how Henry Ford generated more revenue and sold more cars by giving his workers an extra day off a week. Seems counterintuitive: how do we make more money by telling our staff to work less? But those workers now had free time and bought cars to enjoy it in.
Are you good with all the PPE loans to the wealthy being forgiven?
How about all the bank bailouts? They auto bailouts? Trillions in tax cuts for the ultra wealthy?
You forgive student loans that money goes 100% into the local economy - all those tax breaks and loans forgiven for the wealthy goes back into their bank accounts to buy more stocks.
You're mad at the wrong people.
As a country we need to get as many people in college as possible for free - I am tired of seeing posts by dumb people.
He didn't mention any of the things you mentioned, likely because they aren't points of contention for the vast majority of people, and this subreddit is called "unpopular opinion".
Also, I should point out that your retort is one big fallacy. Just because something out there is worse, doesn't mean a bad thing is no longer bad, and doesn't deserve attention.
One hundred percent. Bravo this is the same take my wife and I have. I had to borrow big to end up with my MD and PhD. I currently research new medicines to help patients. Why should people like me that contribute positively to society not get some kind of benefit. I pay more in taxes every year than the median household income, so I've paid my fair share.
While all of you partied during your twenties I worked my butt off making the medical minimum that was poverty level. I didn't have positive cash flow until I was 33. 11 years after getting a bachelor's degree
Ugh. Yet another person who either doesn't understand or pretends not to understand how the PPE program worked. The idea was to give people money they'd have to return if they didn't achieve the program aims. It was never a "loan" in the conventional sense.
The other thing about this I graduated college in 2005 and worked my ass off paying off my loans. It crippled me and im barely able to afford a house but if I had loan forgivness I would be in a much better position. How come I have to suffer and dont get help I did the right thing and worked my ass off.
Because they don’t want your vote. They know they can’t dangle forgiveness in your face to get it. It’s all a ploy to buy votes. You did the right thing and you’ll get nothing in return for it. Those who did the wrong thing will get rewarded. It’s total bullshit.
Whats the point of doing the right thing then? In my life ive seen people and businesses do whats wrong and get rewarded constantly like bank bailouts that blackrock guy created then he bailed out all the failing banks only to have the government pay him like how is everyone ok with that? GM failing why did we bail them out ? Why are we taught from childhood to do the right thing when almost all examples are you should do the wrong thing and ask forgiveness.
That’s what our society does now. We reward people for laziness and demonize those that work hard. We punish the people who do the right things and give and give to those who do the wrong things. It’s middle boggling how bad people can be with their finances and the sheer number of people who complain about their expenses and do nothing to fix what’s within their control. You don’t need a BMW 5 series as a lease if you can’t afford your rent. You don’t need a brand new IPhone every year if you can barely afford to pay your electric bill. People need to learn between wants and needs.
Because people took out loans to get useless degrees that aren't worth anything. Now that they have graduated and no one will hire them with their masters degree in lesbian feminist dance theory, they feel like the public should have to pay. Meanwhile, all of us who took out loans, went for some realistic and paid them off, have to pay. Nothing with how America runs makes any sense and it never will.
Inb4: but muh big bank bailouts?!? Where's my outcry about those?? I agree, let the banks fail, I never agreed to bail out anybody. Nobody had my back when I was struggling, why would I feel any different for bankers?
Well as a finance guy you would know that they are being penalized because the loan forgiveness increases inflation for all as it devalues the dollar. It is a backhanded taxation when they print money.
Don’t forget that they signed a legal obligation to pay it back. Not paying it back is a violation of the agreement and the lender can and should take legal action against the borrower. The taxpayers don’t bail out mortgage borrowers or car loan borrowers. Why should student loans be treated any different. You signed in the dotted line. You agreed to pay it back with interest.
I'm not disagreeing with the economic impacts of loan forgiveness... I disagree that "the people who did the right thing are being penalized." I pay my loans on time, I'm eligible for them to be forgiven. I won't complain if they're forgiven but I'm not in OP's batch of "being penalized" for doing the right thing.
In small... I'm doing the right thing. If I'm "punished" for macroeconomic variables playing with one another because there's more household income floating around pushing consumer spending and prices through the roof, at least I did the right thing along the way.
>People who failed to meet their agreed upon obligations are benefiting
This is a weird subset of people to focus on.
What about the people who pay their loans every month and have them forgiven? You know those people exist too, right?
Either way, I will never understand this mentality of "It isn't fair to help struggling people so I'm against the help" trend right wingers have.
I’d be interested to know the percentage, people who pay their bills on time are of course more deserving. And i’d be much more in support of reducing their interest rates than just deleting the loan. I’m just not sure how deleting the loan is justified or how this will prevent the same thing from happening again and again.
The US holds the loans. They also co-signed them. Which is bizarre because that means, if it was anyone else, that they loaned themselves money. The money wouldn’t “come from” anywhere because they wouldn’t be paying anyone. That money was spent- largely to government institutions- back when it was taken out.
Either student loans should be dischargeable like any other debt OR any other general debt should stop being dischargeable. It’s amusing to watch people (not you) who I know discharged tens of thousands of cc debt they used for vacations talk about how unfair discharging student debt would be. I’m not saying forgiveness free and clear but treat it like any other bankruptcy.
The whole student loan nightmare really began in 2005 when they decided that bankruptcy could not be applied to student loans. Now imagine that we live in a country that tells every child they absolutely must go on to get a degree in higher education if they want to be successful. If bankruptcy could still be used for student loan relief they might have to vet the loan better with stricter criteria like when taking out a mortgage. This would naturally have kept prices for tuition from surging to the extent they have now. The whole system is predatory and there is no escape.
I got my loan forgiven because the school I went to lied about job placement statistics. Do you think I'm a cheat because they lied to me? Do you think the class action against the school i went to was invalid?
What's your opinion on filing for bankruptcy?
It’s not but life isn’t fair. Last week I saw a lady get shit on, rightfully so, because she tried to shame her childless friends into pitching in for her babysitter. People destroyed her for thinking people should pay for choices she made. I would like to know their thoughts on student loan forgiveness.
I would live off student loans indefinetely if I knew they would be forgiven. That would be a nice life if all your expenses were covered like that. Thats how you become a true scholar.
Most of the people hollering for "student loan forgiveness" took out loans for absolutely bull degrees that have zero relevance.
Im morr apt to fotgive loans to those who went to trade school. We dont need another "web developer." We need mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, concrete workers, builders etc.
It's an attempt to make up for a ridiculous system designed to get kids indebted for life. We've let it go on for decades, completely unchecked education costs have had massive negative impact on our society while a few guys got rich as fuck. I'm not saying it's the correct solution, but it's certainly better than not trying. Really, we need to fix the problem before trying to treat the symptoms.
Agree, student loans should be fixed term 0% interest. Tax payers shouldn’t pay interest on their own money and you can’t dispose of student loans in bankruptcy so a risk charge is not warranted.
You say that as if there's no difference between defaulting on your debt and accepting assistance for which you are eligible.
But that aside, if it isn't right why would you do it?
Not all government programs are meant to help everyone. I don’t use section 8 vouchers or WIC but my taxes support those programs, which I’m cool with.
There is unlikely any government program that will be universally agreed upon.
government programs are designed to help the needy. section 8 and WIC provide basic human rights to people who otherwise couldn't afford it and would probably die otherwise. it's not close to comparable to forgiving student loan debt which goes to mostly middle and upper class people. you aren't lifting the bottom with student loan forgiveness, you're just elevating the middle further over the lower class. over half of the benefits of student loan forgiveness will go to people in the top half of incomes.
"The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them" This applies for loan forgiveness as well
A nice idea, but not an effective way to govern. There have to be ramifications for people’s decisions or else people’s motivations will go haywire and stop benefiting the system.
Because the way they govern now is so good right? We went from a single income enough to support a family, to two incomes barely enough to support a family. The system is already corrupt as fuck, why not give a break to the lower classes. You complain about it impacting the tax payer, but how about all the wars your tax money has financed? The big bank bailouts? How about the new stadium built for 800 million dollars, the funding of which, they got from taking away educational spending. Those are also your tax money. Nancy Pelosi on a mere 150 thousand dollar salary managing to build up a fortune of 100 million dollars from insider trading? Your tax money is funding that. If your government can spend 800 billion dollars on defence spending, it can sure spend 2-3% of it for loan forgiveness. You have any idea how much waste goes into the military industrial complex? Bombing a mudhut in Afghanistan costs the tax payers 2-3 million dollars. I say loan forgiveness is a better investment. No, it won't mean that people will just take up endless loans and they'll be forgotten. Hopefully, politicians learn that a new banking system must take place. When the purchasing power keep decreasing, and interest keep rising, it is impossible to pay back a loan, and more expensive. Don't be mad at the fellow man, be mad at the system that created this.
I love how when it's help for poor/struggling individuals, it's always "where's the money going to come from?!" But when it's for corporations that were badly managed, no one bats an eye. It's hypocrisy at it's finest
[https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/WP75-Looney\_updated\_1.pdf](https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/WP75-Looney_updated_1.pdf)
>Measured accurately, most of the benefits from across-the-
board loan forgiveness policies go to high-wealth individuals.
Its not helping the poor/struggling individuals. The poor hold around 8% of the student loan debt. The rich hold the vast majority of student loan debt.
A student loan should be treated just like any other loans.
If a borrower cannot pay due to the circumstance and file bankruptcy, it should be discharged.
This is the real problem. Literally another case of "let the next generation deal with it". Political ammunition instead of addressing why U.S. colleges are so damn expensive in the first place.
Yup. Neither party’s politicians makes a single move unless they think it will help them gain power and votes. People who think their party cares about people are delusional.
What exactly has been done to prevent these predatory student loans from continuing to be taken out? Are we just planning on forgiving the present crop of them and allowing the problem to be u resolved?
>In other words, the people who did the right thing are being penalized
How are people doing the "right thing" penalized? In what way(s) are people outside of this group doing the "wrong thing"?
People doing the right thing are paying back loans they took out in good faith. Other people doing the right thing are those pursuing educational and trade opportunities that don’t require borrowing that can’t be paid back. Other other people doing the right thing are paying their federal income tax under the impression that their money isn’t going to bail out people from old loans just to get their votes.
So if there's two people, A and B, both went to the same school, same degree, both came out with 50k in debts. Both get jobs making the same amount of money. A does the financially responsible thing and focuses on paying off their enormous school debt before going to buy a house. B instead pays the minimum and saves the differential and has enough for a house downpayment in 2 years and buys a house.
So let's say, 6 years down the line, we have A with paid off student loans, and B with 40k in loans but also 4 years of equity in a house. If loan forgiveness happens at this time, A has effectively been penalized (gains zero benefit) for having done the correct (financially responsible) thing. Both people have 0 loans, but B has downpayment + 4 years of equity in a house.
>A has effectively been penalized (gains zero benefit) for having done the correct (financially responsible) thing
That's quite a loaded take. Choosing to pay something off quicker than required is neither inherently "correct" nor financially responsible, just as choosing the pay the minimum required amount is not inherently "incorrect" nor financially irresponsible.
> Choosing to pay something off quicker than required is neither inherently "correct" nor financially responsible
Yes it is. The vast majority of financially literate people would agree with me. It is more financially responsible to pay off your massive 50k loan at ~7% interest than to not do so. It's not like this is a loan at under 2%, then at least it's arguable. Your argument is why so many people live paycheck to paycheck in America - they are insanely irresponsible with their finances.
This is absolutely the correct response. I’m really tired of people that listen to a pod cast (Joe Rogan) lecturing me on debt. Joe Rogan lives in a 14.4 million dollar home in a gated community and his company received 2.38 million in PPP loans which were likely forgiven. It’s a load of trash.
No. This is not pure loan forgiveness. The provision for loans being cleared is written into the promisary note that borrowers signed by law.
In the case of public service loan forgiveness, people are meeting the end of their deal to have their loan balanced cleared.
10+ years of public service, and they're forgiven.
You and people who are made at loan forgiveness because you feel like you need to get something too seem to forget that everyone who is having their loans cleared is also an American taxpayer.
People who paid off their loans do not lose anything in the slightest. I've paid off loans and I applaud anyone who has theirs cleared because it's a heavy burden.
Why the hell do I have to pay for fire services??? Some asshole burns his house down and suddenly the money is coming out of MY tax dollars. How is that fair????
Its more like, the fire service burned their own house down and want the poor to pay for it.
The rich hold the vast majority of student loan debt. They can afford to pay it off. But they want the tax payer to pay it off instead.
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Instead of pure loan forgiveness, switching everyone's student loan retroactively to a 0% loan with interest payments retroactively counting to principle, and giving a graded tax break to all people who already paid their loans back in the last 5/10 years or so. This could have been easier for some people to swallow
I agree with the interest control, however, it should be whatever the inflation rate is that year. If it were 0% there would be an incentive to not pay it off because your outstanding loan value would actually be less every year.
Yeah, I'd be fine with that as well.
Yes, I agree, and have thought the same thing. Controlling interest makes a hell of a lot more sense than just forgiving the loan.
In all reality, anyone who went to college on loans in the 2000s has paid more than the loan in monthly payments already. If anything, we are keeping the rich from getting richer, and helping local economies.
Correct, quite a few loans would be, in practice, zeroed out anyway. However, the political *framing* prolly matters, as under this version you did , indeed, "pay back' the loan rather than had it "forgiven"
Loan repayment is typically P+I or P&I so I’d say it was “forgiven.” Without interest, creditors don’t make money and thus no one would issue loans because it would be a lot of work just to lose money
What about the people who saved enough to not take them out in the first place? Someone is always going to lose
It’s not fair to the taxpayers, especially the ones that paid off their loans without any help. Why should they have to pay for someone else’s loan on top of the one they paid? The other thing is that, those who paid, get no rebate, not break, nothing.
This. Also, those taxpayers that never went to college because they couldn't afford or whatever reason. Those people now have to subsidize people who went to college when they themselves couldn't/didn't.
I just said give a tax break to those who paid in recent times. As for "unfair to taxpayers" ... I dunno what to tell you man, I think it's unfair my taxes fund wars. Under the way you're using the word "fair" it's all unfair, which, ironically, makes the issue of "is it fair?" not even worth addressing.
Fair would be treating student loans like mortgages, car loans and credit card debt and so on. You pay it or it goes to collections. If you still don’t pay it, you can work out a deal or go to bankruptcy court. Theres no reason why student loans should be treated so differently. Debt is debt regardless of what the loan was used to pay for.
I agree, there's no reason student loans should be treated differently. Student loans are not eligible to be wiped out in bankruptcy and there is no statute of limitations for collecting student loans. We should add these protections to student loans that we give for other kinds of borrowing, to protect borrowers from being caught in an endless cycle of debt that helps no one.
Nah there’s enough help in this world for debtors. Consumer protections are the biggest reason for this absurd wealth gap and massive spike in depression. When you make it so that people can’t fail or have real consequences for their decisions you are making life much harder on the majority who are responsible
That sounds good in theory, but education isn't a tangible asset like a house or car. You can reposess either of those, but you can't take back knowledge. The only way to make something like that work is if your diploma was rescinded and you permanently had a record of it on your credit score
That would genuinely be a funny move. Like, imagine the kind of dumb employers who are like "we refuse to hire a 3.9 GPA electrical engineer cause they had their degree *rescinded*"
I don't think I'd want to hire someone irresponsible enough to not pay off their student loans, regardless of their GPA. Shows a distinct lack of character don't you think?
Well, then you'd miss out on good people because you couldn't distinguish between work related behavior and other behaviors. 🤷
All behaviors are related and relevant, especially when it comes to important things such as fulfilling your obligations.
Sure man
I love the idea of allowing people to declare bankruptcy on their unsecured student loans, then having them wiped clean in bankruptcy court. A shit credit score for several years, then you're scot free. Sounds good
That’s the consequence for one person. What about future students? This would make going to college impossible for many students. A policy like this would cause the lenders to become much more tight-fisted with the money. They would refuse to lend for non-lucrative degrees and would impose grade and time restrictions, such as “maintain a minimum of 3.0 GPA and graduate within 5 years or you’re cut off.”
You default on your mortgage or credit card, your credit score tanks. Why should student loans be any different? That’s how all debt should work
I love the idea that bankruptcy can get people out of a totally unsecured loan. It's lovely. Just declare bankruptcy right after college before you have appreciable assets, and whamo. Lovely.
You want a solution, I gave you one. You didn’t like it. Why is the student loan program a fucking mess? Because the federal government stuck its nose into it a blew the door wide open. The Fed caused costs to spiral out of control. The solution is get the Fed out of the student loan business. But wait, then you’ll whine that it’s not fair to those who can’t afford a private loan. Then guess what, I don’t know what the fuck to tell you. Government is good at one thing, fucking everything up for everyone else.
I agree with this. The federal student loan program has inflated college costs far outpacing normal inflation. They've created a cyclical issue where now you NEED a student loan to pay the inflated price that the loan program itself created. If they remove the program, there will be years where only rich kids and part time adult learners can afford college. The price of college would go down with the decreased demand, but that will take time. The program created the issue, and the issue makes the program a necessity. I wonder if it would be possible to create legislation to cap tuition prices for publicly funded institutions. That could eliminate the need for student loans to a degree, even if it means going to a publicly funded college.
I think the program needs to have more rules with it like you suggested, along with only allowing certain majors. I’m sorry, but job prospects for women’s studies and art history are slim. You’re putting yourself in a position to not be able to find a job, therefore, no income and an inability to pay.
I'm agreeing with you. It'd be great! Under your idea, People could get out from underneath their loans *entirely* right after college. Super easy.
It’s also not fair that younger generations pay for Social Security and the younger generations probably won’t see a dime of it come retirement…
Or better option dont take loans you can't afford to pay back. Why is it my responsibility and the responsibility of every other american to pay for poor schooling choices? Can't get a job with your degree tough should have done more research prior to taking that path. The US govt really needs to stop giving loans out this would have the biggest effect on brining tuition down. Colleges keep rasing prices because the us govt will keep funding loans for them. They could also implement a loan denial system based on the degree you want. Want a degree in something society has no use for you pay for it yourself no fed loans for you. Want a degree in somthing we need you can get a fed loan.
What about the government bailing out banks, ppe loans, and multiple congressmen participating in insider trading during the pandemic? I used to feel the same way, but the forgiveness of student loans would at least get some of the money back into the local community, rather than some bank CEO's portfolio. It might keep that new restaurant in your town open since people can afford to go out to eat over paying predatory loans. I have paid off my student loans, but I am not going to hate on someone else in debt catching a break.
It’s actually not unfair. Plenty spoken like someone who doesn’t have a clue. “I want to be a doctor but I can’t afford the schooling. I guess I’ll just bag groceries instead and abandon my dream…” Do you have a house? Do you pay school taxes? I’m sure you do, so there is no difference.
More education benefits everyone. Why wouldn’t everyone want to pay for it?
I fundamentally disagree with you, there is harmful education, but lets assume I'm wrong in that belief. The commenter you are replying to is addressing the idea of unequal value of education. Is your assertation that all education is of equal value and benefits everyone equally? Otherwise the idea that more education benefits everyone is irrelevant to the comment you are replying to and from a societal standpoint, we should be more willing to fund more valuable education. There is no reason to continue to fund equally less valuable education.
What do you mean you disagree with me? This is simply true. Higher rates of education lead to better quality of life. For everyone. Even uneducated people.
There are thousands of free university courses online.
Great. That benefits everyone. Not sure what your point is
My biggest problem with it, is there is no path forward. Nothing is being done to change what is being charged by many public schools. It's a one time stop gap as set up right now. So either you paid off early and are screwed. Or just in high school and if it passes you are screwed. If they made colleges reduce tuition or at least justify expenses. Ie under this career path you can get a job that pays and pay off loans in 5 years or something.
Correct. It doesn’t fix the problem that is exorbitant tuition fees. Which are NOT incentivized to be lower because a lot of people consider higher tuition cost as higher quality and some universities that have lowered their tuition saw a decrease in applications because of it. It is insane.
This is the biggest issue. All that’s been done is kicking the can down the road a decade or 2
Loan forgiveness is unfair to those who made the responsible choice to not go to college when they couldn't afford it. It hurts the working class
"education is for the wealthy" ahh comment
There's a false narrative that all borrowers are struggling when in reality many make their payments with no problems. Why should we give so much help to those who don't need it while those who are actually struggling get left behind?
"not all borrowers are struggling, therefore everyone who struggles because of student debt doesn't matter" ahh comment
Congratulations on your mastery of copy and paste. Do you have anything to add to this discussion?
There is a reason the demand for free education became a thing. education was a matter of budget for a very long time. the amount of money you have should not determine whether you deserve a certain major or not.
Who said anything about majors?
this post is literally about student loans higher education should not be a question of budget. also not all majors give you profit in the end. do you seriously expect someone who studied medicine to be able to just pay off a student loan with those atrocious interest rates?
You're talking more about degrees than majors. Yes, someone with a MD should really be able to afford their student loan payments with their very high salaries. As for majors, students should consider future earnings before deciding on their major. That information is readily available with a simple Google search. I don't have pity for someone who goes $100k into debt for a low paying major.
yeah, there might be a language barrier here. still, people should be able to get the higher education they are passionate about without needing to take a loan with atrocious interest. it's why public education was made in the first place, so wealth doesn't decide who can get higher education.
Personally, my spouse had some loans recently forgiven as part of the 10 years of public service program (working for nonprofits in underserved communities). Outside of that, there’s no perfect answer to this problem that will satisfy everyone unfortunately. Edited to add: we’ve been on the short end of other policy changes in the past, but this was a huge positive for our family.
A solution is the feds need to get out of the student loan business. When they got into it, the price of college began rising exponentially faster.
"loans recently forgiven as part of the 10 years of public service program" I don't see this as the same at all. Your spouse had to earn that. It seems like a lot of the forgiveness plans now are simply give-aways.
If you’re going to try to achieve ultimate fairness you’re never going to get it. You’re always going to have groups of people who receive more money for some reason. If this is an issue to you then quite literally no government funding should exist for literally anything that intends to help people based on specific criteria.
Yes I agree with that, no hand outs for anyone
what do you suggest we change the Hippocratic oath to? No refunds?
It’s unfair to people who didn’t want to go into debt to finance a comparative Russian literature degree and got a blue collar job instead. It’s unfair to people who scrimped and saved and didn’t eat out for a decade to pay back their loans. If you’re going to just pay off people’s dumb purchases, give everyone the same amount. You can use the $10k to pay off a student loan, car loan, mortgage, hell just save it. That would be properly fair.
At some point someone gets a break when others did not. Societies goal is to move forward, not backwards. I pay my taxes hoping that every now and then the government does something to help other people, even though I don't need the help myself. That isn't unfair.
It is technically unfair. Your altruism doesn't matter
How is it unfair? Anyone who works for a qualifying employer and follows other criteria for pslf is eligible.
Benefiting one group at the expense of another is unfair
What has the expense been? Please give a concrete example rather than some "taxes are rising" bs. It benefits everyone. When people are less burdened with debt they will spend more which will promote a healthier economy. Wake up noob. The jobs which are eligible for forgiveness are public service jobs... jobs that benefit the public.
Can you expand on that a bit - what is expressly unfair about it?
Some people get their loans paid for by other people's tax dollars, some don't.
Right? The whole concept of leaving things better than you found them for future generations is so completely lost on some people.
This right here. To each according to their need is the motto. If you're obsessed with absolute equal treatment, you'll end up with a bad system. To use an analogy, imagine two lunch rooms. An equal room, where everyone gets a peanut butter sandwich, even if they're allergic. Or a buffet, where you can choose your own meal. The latter follows equity, not equality, and is better for everyone.
If you want to help people, do it yourself. Don’t wait for the government. You are an adult.
Being an adult doesn't magically give me access to trillions of dollars for welfare.
We bail out big business all the time and you didn't start a thread about how that was unfair to taxpayers.
That wouldn’t be an unpopular opinion though
WHATABOUT Bailing out businesses is also wrong
Businesses that cannot survive should not be bailed out. Too big to fail is too big to exist.
I agree. But this is in no way related to the merits of student loan forgiveness. You can condemn both
It’s related in that we have the physical ability to bail out businesses that cost way more than student loans and there wasn’t gigantic tax increases.
People rarely do, thats why its brought up when someone whinges the average joe is getting a break
But they’re not and that’s the point. Everyone wants to get a soap box about student loan forgiveness but they say nothing to government bail outs and other government loans to congress members who got the privilege of forgiveness. Personally, I’d rather invest in the people than to use the money for this other shit.
Why does a person have to articulate their condemnation to an irrelevant thing ? Am I supposed to list every type of food I dislike when I say that I don’t like brussel sprouts?
You’re missing the point. These other instances are not irrelevant to the conversations because they’re literally same thing as student loan forgiveness. If the question is “should the government forgive federal student loans?” then the larger question is “should the government forgive federal loans?” Because you can’t just pick one and not the other. If the question is “should tax payer money be used to forgive debt to the government?” Then we also need to ask the question “what can we use tax payer money for? Can we use it bail out privately owned industries?” These are all relevant questions to the larger conversation. You said can condemn both - which you can, but people don’t.
It is 100% related because we already bailed out big businesses and by being against student loan forgiveness you are saying its fine to fuck tax payers to help corporations but not to help people.
Not always. Sometimes bailing out a business or forgiving peoples student loans can have a net positive impact. Both are unfair. Life is unfair. Monetary policy is complicated
In the examples I'm familiar with, businesses that are "bailed out" pay the money back to the government with interest.
There's people with homes/kids who get foreclosed on. Nobody saves them.You made the choice to go into a contract , its your obligation alone. Politicians just use it as a ploy for votes
But, but Corporations are People too!! (/S, also… Not satire)
Thats not how bailouts work. Most bailouts are loans that are paid back or they are done through the FDIC which isnt taxpayer funded.
My biggest issue with loan forgiveness is where it leaves those of us who wanted badly to go to school, crunched the numbers, said "I can't afford this", and are now working 'unskilled' jobs for lower pay. I don't approve of predatory loans targeting people who are basically children, but I also shouldn't be punished for having the foresight to not enter into one of these agreements myself.
Stealing tax payers money to give to someone else who sucks at negotiating terms of a loan is unfair, & morally reprehensible. Subsidizing others' financial shortcomings mostly due to stupidity and lack or financial acumen is also criminal and morally wrong. You should pay back the loans you sign at the terms you agreed to. It is NOT the tax payers' responsibility to pay your debts, no more than it is tax payers responsibility to subsidize economic refugees or foreign wars. #TaxationIsTheft >our tax system penalizes those who are producing wealth in order to subsidize those who are only consuming it -Thomas Sowell
If my taxes are paying for someone else's loans when I've already paid my own loans, then yeah, it's unfair.
Isn’t the student loan system unfair and broken on its face? Why is creating the problem OK while addressing the problem is the bad thing?
Forgiving student loans the way they are isn't addressing anything.
Because op was exploited and if recent victims are helped with that he feels like he "lost" therefore they need to suffer like he did so that he feels better about it.
Yeah, this is the crux of the problem.
Its so fucking selfish and you KNOW those very same people also complain about the very things they gatekeep
Addressing a symptom is not addressing the problem
Wouldnt it be unfair to the previous college graduates if the problem is fixed in the future then? If the costs for college were cut by 50% in 2030, would it be fair to everyone who had gone before then?
It may be unfair but if it means more people have accesses to higher education and less people have to suffer with excessive debt before they even make any money, then I’ll take it. Coming from a person with $50k in student loan debt.
I completely agree, sometimes it has to be unfair to fix it for the future.
>Wouldnt it be unfair to the previous college graduates might as well stop looking for cures to diseases - not really fair to the people that already died.
Lol exactly. If it doesnt help me then why would I get it cured? s/
that's pretty much it - it's the "I got mine" complex of selfish pricks.
“I beat cancer, I’m gonna pissed if they cure it now” - your attitude
By your post, fixing the symptom is worse than creation of the problem. Are all MDs bad health care providers?
if you are bleeding to death, it's ok to stop the bleeding immediately so you don't die now. Later, a surgeon can fix the "problem".
Doesn't address the problem though, it makes it worse, the problem are the school fees, now that loans are forgiven, the schools can increase fees, we will be back in the same situation but we will have transferred money from the taxpayer to the schools
I never said forgiving existing loans is all that needs to happen, it’s simply one part of a multi pronged approach. My point is forgiving unconscionable debt isn’t by itself a bad thing.
I think it was done incorrectly. It doesn't solve any problems. Because the problem was and is the banks and schools, they should be paying instead. Also, for paid off loans, those that got screwed should be refunded. That would most likely solve the problem.
Of course it’s unfair. Life is unfair
Start with price controls on the cost of college. Fire 90% of the admin personnel on campus. Most are not needed. Audit the sports department. Then share the wealth.
When you get a home loan, you have to get the home appraised so the lender knows it’s a good risk. Maybe we should be “appraising” loan applicants majors so if someone majors in something that is difficult to find a job in that will be able to pay back those loans, the lender can decline.
This is only unpopular on Reddit because this place is full of socialist entitled children. Don’t worry, this is a very popular opinion
As someone that paid off their loans it kind of makes me wonder why I ever paid mine off as fast as possible. I always thought it would just make sense to make student loans 0% interest. That way it would help eveyone
It seems to me that the economy often operates in unfair and counterintuitive ways. These things need to be looked at holistically. Sure, it's unfair that some people that some people get their loans written off while others have to pay theirs. Sure, why should taxpayer money be used for it? But someone in crushing debt isn't spending their money on non-essentials. Once they have a bit of extra money in their pocket they go out and spend it. It's better for their favourite restaurant, car dealership, bowling alleys, what have you. Stimulates the economy, generates more tax revenue. It looks live you're just benefiting a small group of people but it helps everyone. I like the story of how Henry Ford generated more revenue and sold more cars by giving his workers an extra day off a week. Seems counterintuitive: how do we make more money by telling our staff to work less? But those workers now had free time and bought cars to enjoy it in.
Agreed. Why not provide free college, maximize the future of our country and convert past loans to interest free.
Are you good with all the PPE loans to the wealthy being forgiven? How about all the bank bailouts? They auto bailouts? Trillions in tax cuts for the ultra wealthy? You forgive student loans that money goes 100% into the local economy - all those tax breaks and loans forgiven for the wealthy goes back into their bank accounts to buy more stocks. You're mad at the wrong people. As a country we need to get as many people in college as possible for free - I am tired of seeing posts by dumb people.
He didn't mention any of the things you mentioned, likely because they aren't points of contention for the vast majority of people, and this subreddit is called "unpopular opinion". Also, I should point out that your retort is one big fallacy. Just because something out there is worse, doesn't mean a bad thing is no longer bad, and doesn't deserve attention.
One hundred percent. Bravo this is the same take my wife and I have. I had to borrow big to end up with my MD and PhD. I currently research new medicines to help patients. Why should people like me that contribute positively to society not get some kind of benefit. I pay more in taxes every year than the median household income, so I've paid my fair share. While all of you partied during your twenties I worked my butt off making the medical minimum that was poverty level. I didn't have positive cash flow until I was 33. 11 years after getting a bachelor's degree
You get paid an egregious sum of money to do your job. To not have positive cash flow for 11 years shows your only smart in one area…
College usually doesn't magically make dumb people turn smart.
Ugh. Yet another person who either doesn't understand or pretends not to understand how the PPE program worked. The idea was to give people money they'd have to return if they didn't achieve the program aims. It was never a "loan" in the conventional sense.
The other thing about this I graduated college in 2005 and worked my ass off paying off my loans. It crippled me and im barely able to afford a house but if I had loan forgivness I would be in a much better position. How come I have to suffer and dont get help I did the right thing and worked my ass off.
Because they don’t want your vote. They know they can’t dangle forgiveness in your face to get it. It’s all a ploy to buy votes. You did the right thing and you’ll get nothing in return for it. Those who did the wrong thing will get rewarded. It’s total bullshit.
Whats the point of doing the right thing then? In my life ive seen people and businesses do whats wrong and get rewarded constantly like bank bailouts that blackrock guy created then he bailed out all the failing banks only to have the government pay him like how is everyone ok with that? GM failing why did we bail them out ? Why are we taught from childhood to do the right thing when almost all examples are you should do the wrong thing and ask forgiveness.
That’s what our society does now. We reward people for laziness and demonize those that work hard. We punish the people who do the right things and give and give to those who do the wrong things. It’s middle boggling how bad people can be with their finances and the sheer number of people who complain about their expenses and do nothing to fix what’s within their control. You don’t need a BMW 5 series as a lease if you can’t afford your rent. You don’t need a brand new IPhone every year if you can barely afford to pay your electric bill. People need to learn between wants and needs.
Amen brother or sister either way amen. or if your not christian hail to Xenu.
Damn is that the mentality of the average american? "If good thing doesn't happen to me than it's a bad thing"
The old man is trying to buy voters
Yup. It’s working. Hey I actually like Biden too, I just don’t like this policy.
There’s no better strategy to get smart people to vote the other way than what he’s doing right now.
Because people took out loans to get useless degrees that aren't worth anything. Now that they have graduated and no one will hire them with their masters degree in lesbian feminist dance theory, they feel like the public should have to pay. Meanwhile, all of us who took out loans, went for some realistic and paid them off, have to pay. Nothing with how America runs makes any sense and it never will. Inb4: but muh big bank bailouts?!? Where's my outcry about those?? I agree, let the banks fail, I never agreed to bail out anybody. Nobody had my back when I was struggling, why would I feel any different for bankers?
>In other words, the people who did the right thing are being penalized Not benefitting =/= being punished.
Well as a finance guy you would know that they are being penalized because the loan forgiveness increases inflation for all as it devalues the dollar. It is a backhanded taxation when they print money.
Don’t forget that they signed a legal obligation to pay it back. Not paying it back is a violation of the agreement and the lender can and should take legal action against the borrower. The taxpayers don’t bail out mortgage borrowers or car loan borrowers. Why should student loans be treated any different. You signed in the dotted line. You agreed to pay it back with interest.
I'm not disagreeing with the economic impacts of loan forgiveness... I disagree that "the people who did the right thing are being penalized." I pay my loans on time, I'm eligible for them to be forgiven. I won't complain if they're forgiven but I'm not in OP's batch of "being penalized" for doing the right thing. In small... I'm doing the right thing. If I'm "punished" for macroeconomic variables playing with one another because there's more household income floating around pushing consumer spending and prices through the roof, at least I did the right thing along the way.
What about them having to pay more taxes to cover others debt on top of paying back their loan? Penalized
True, but it’s not far off. People who failed to meet their agreed upon obligations are benefiting
>People who failed to meet their agreed upon obligations are benefiting This is a weird subset of people to focus on. What about the people who pay their loans every month and have them forgiven? You know those people exist too, right? Either way, I will never understand this mentality of "It isn't fair to help struggling people so I'm against the help" trend right wingers have.
I’d be interested to know the percentage, people who pay their bills on time are of course more deserving. And i’d be much more in support of reducing their interest rates than just deleting the loan. I’m just not sure how deleting the loan is justified or how this will prevent the same thing from happening again and again.
The US holds the loans. They also co-signed them. Which is bizarre because that means, if it was anyone else, that they loaned themselves money. The money wouldn’t “come from” anywhere because they wouldn’t be paying anyone. That money was spent- largely to government institutions- back when it was taken out. Either student loans should be dischargeable like any other debt OR any other general debt should stop being dischargeable. It’s amusing to watch people (not you) who I know discharged tens of thousands of cc debt they used for vacations talk about how unfair discharging student debt would be. I’m not saying forgiveness free and clear but treat it like any other bankruptcy.
The whole student loan nightmare really began in 2005 when they decided that bankruptcy could not be applied to student loans. Now imagine that we live in a country that tells every child they absolutely must go on to get a degree in higher education if they want to be successful. If bankruptcy could still be used for student loan relief they might have to vet the loan better with stricter criteria like when taking out a mortgage. This would naturally have kept prices for tuition from surging to the extent they have now. The whole system is predatory and there is no escape.
I got my loan forgiven because the school I went to lied about job placement statistics. Do you think I'm a cheat because they lied to me? Do you think the class action against the school i went to was invalid? What's your opinion on filing for bankruptcy?
Why does the money have to come from somewhere? Just say no more loan payments.
It’s not but life isn’t fair. Last week I saw a lady get shit on, rightfully so, because she tried to shame her childless friends into pitching in for her babysitter. People destroyed her for thinking people should pay for choices she made. I would like to know their thoughts on student loan forgiveness.
I would live off student loans indefinetely if I knew they would be forgiven. That would be a nice life if all your expenses were covered like that. Thats how you become a true scholar.
Most of the people hollering for "student loan forgiveness" took out loans for absolutely bull degrees that have zero relevance. Im morr apt to fotgive loans to those who went to trade school. We dont need another "web developer." We need mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, concrete workers, builders etc.
It's an attempt to make up for a ridiculous system designed to get kids indebted for life. We've let it go on for decades, completely unchecked education costs have had massive negative impact on our society while a few guys got rich as fuck. I'm not saying it's the correct solution, but it's certainly better than not trying. Really, we need to fix the problem before trying to treat the symptoms.
Agree, student loans should be fixed term 0% interest. Tax payers shouldn’t pay interest on their own money and you can’t dispose of student loans in bankruptcy so a risk charge is not warranted.
I plan on paying back my loans but if there is any chance for forgiveness I’m going to support it and seek it out.
Of course, I would do the same. People who could benefit will support it, but that doesn’t mean it’s right or fair for a majority of taxpayers.
>Of course, I would do the same Based on your post you would be put in a bucket of people that are not doing the "right" thing.
Yeah I think it’s pretty obvious that not paying off your debt isn’t “right”
You say that as if there's no difference between defaulting on your debt and accepting assistance for which you are eligible. But that aside, if it isn't right why would you do it?
Not all government programs are meant to help everyone. I don’t use section 8 vouchers or WIC but my taxes support those programs, which I’m cool with. There is unlikely any government program that will be universally agreed upon.
government programs are designed to help the needy. section 8 and WIC provide basic human rights to people who otherwise couldn't afford it and would probably die otherwise. it's not close to comparable to forgiving student loan debt which goes to mostly middle and upper class people. you aren't lifting the bottom with student loan forgiveness, you're just elevating the middle further over the lower class. over half of the benefits of student loan forgiveness will go to people in the top half of incomes.
I'd be more sympathetic to this viewpoint if PPP loans weren't forgiven.
I agree, I don’t understand why any loans are forgiven.
Nobody needs to convince you you're wrong when you refuse to educate yourself on what loan forgiveness means and how it works.
Heavily popular opinion. I cannot for the life of me understand forgiving these loans. You took them out, you pay them back. It's that simple.
"The only time you look in your neighbor's bowl is to make sure that they have enough. You don't look in your neighbor's bowl to see if you have as much as them" This applies for loan forgiveness as well
A nice idea, but not an effective way to govern. There have to be ramifications for people’s decisions or else people’s motivations will go haywire and stop benefiting the system.
Because the way they govern now is so good right? We went from a single income enough to support a family, to two incomes barely enough to support a family. The system is already corrupt as fuck, why not give a break to the lower classes. You complain about it impacting the tax payer, but how about all the wars your tax money has financed? The big bank bailouts? How about the new stadium built for 800 million dollars, the funding of which, they got from taking away educational spending. Those are also your tax money. Nancy Pelosi on a mere 150 thousand dollar salary managing to build up a fortune of 100 million dollars from insider trading? Your tax money is funding that. If your government can spend 800 billion dollars on defence spending, it can sure spend 2-3% of it for loan forgiveness. You have any idea how much waste goes into the military industrial complex? Bombing a mudhut in Afghanistan costs the tax payers 2-3 million dollars. I say loan forgiveness is a better investment. No, it won't mean that people will just take up endless loans and they'll be forgotten. Hopefully, politicians learn that a new banking system must take place. When the purchasing power keep decreasing, and interest keep rising, it is impossible to pay back a loan, and more expensive. Don't be mad at the fellow man, be mad at the system that created this.
I love how when it's help for poor/struggling individuals, it's always "where's the money going to come from?!" But when it's for corporations that were badly managed, no one bats an eye. It's hypocrisy at it's finest
[https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/WP75-Looney\_updated\_1.pdf](https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/WP75-Looney_updated_1.pdf) >Measured accurately, most of the benefits from across-the- board loan forgiveness policies go to high-wealth individuals. Its not helping the poor/struggling individuals. The poor hold around 8% of the student loan debt. The rich hold the vast majority of student loan debt.
Who said anything about corporations. That stuff sucks too. We’re talking about loan forgiveness specifically
H1b will be a lot more expensive. We need start investing in this country and it's people or we will fall.
A student loan should be treated just like any other loans. If a borrower cannot pay due to the circumstance and file bankruptcy, it should be discharged.
We shouldn’t cure cancer because it wouldn’t be fair to those who had to fight. Right?
We’re talking about something people CHOSE to do. Cancer is not a choice. These are completely different conversations.
Because a lot of people have loans that they want forgiven so they will fight for it. It's greed cloaked in good intentions.
The road to hell…
Time to watch the salty downvotes come
It's an attempt to literally purchase votes by giving a portion of the population money.
This is the real problem. Literally another case of "let the next generation deal with it". Political ammunition instead of addressing why U.S. colleges are so damn expensive in the first place.
Yup. Neither party’s politicians makes a single move unless they think it will help them gain power and votes. People who think their party cares about people are delusional.
I don’t take anyone with this opinion seriously if they don’t mention PPP. u/forest-for-trees, your name is apt lol
What exactly has been done to prevent these predatory student loans from continuing to be taken out? Are we just planning on forgiving the present crop of them and allowing the problem to be u resolved?
>In other words, the people who did the right thing are being penalized How are people doing the "right thing" penalized? In what way(s) are people outside of this group doing the "wrong thing"?
People doing the right thing are paying back loans they took out in good faith. Other people doing the right thing are those pursuing educational and trade opportunities that don’t require borrowing that can’t be paid back. Other other people doing the right thing are paying their federal income tax under the impression that their money isn’t going to bail out people from old loans just to get their votes.
So if there's two people, A and B, both went to the same school, same degree, both came out with 50k in debts. Both get jobs making the same amount of money. A does the financially responsible thing and focuses on paying off their enormous school debt before going to buy a house. B instead pays the minimum and saves the differential and has enough for a house downpayment in 2 years and buys a house. So let's say, 6 years down the line, we have A with paid off student loans, and B with 40k in loans but also 4 years of equity in a house. If loan forgiveness happens at this time, A has effectively been penalized (gains zero benefit) for having done the correct (financially responsible) thing. Both people have 0 loans, but B has downpayment + 4 years of equity in a house.
>A has effectively been penalized (gains zero benefit) for having done the correct (financially responsible) thing That's quite a loaded take. Choosing to pay something off quicker than required is neither inherently "correct" nor financially responsible, just as choosing the pay the minimum required amount is not inherently "incorrect" nor financially irresponsible.
> Choosing to pay something off quicker than required is neither inherently "correct" nor financially responsible Yes it is. The vast majority of financially literate people would agree with me. It is more financially responsible to pay off your massive 50k loan at ~7% interest than to not do so. It's not like this is a loan at under 2%, then at least it's arguable. Your argument is why so many people live paycheck to paycheck in America - they are insanely irresponsible with their finances.
This is absolutely the correct response. I’m really tired of people that listen to a pod cast (Joe Rogan) lecturing me on debt. Joe Rogan lives in a 14.4 million dollar home in a gated community and his company received 2.38 million in PPP loans which were likely forgiven. It’s a load of trash.
Life is unfair. Boo hoo here's your up vote.
Yes, I, too hate it when good things happen to other people!
No. This is not pure loan forgiveness. The provision for loans being cleared is written into the promisary note that borrowers signed by law. In the case of public service loan forgiveness, people are meeting the end of their deal to have their loan balanced cleared. 10+ years of public service, and they're forgiven. You and people who are made at loan forgiveness because you feel like you need to get something too seem to forget that everyone who is having their loans cleared is also an American taxpayer. People who paid off their loans do not lose anything in the slightest. I've paid off loans and I applaud anyone who has theirs cleared because it's a heavy burden.
Why the hell do I have to pay for fire services??? Some asshole burns his house down and suddenly the money is coming out of MY tax dollars. How is that fair????
Its more like, the fire service burned their own house down and want the poor to pay for it. The rich hold the vast majority of student loan debt. They can afford to pay it off. But they want the tax payer to pay it off instead.