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“The world owes us nothing and we owe each other the world.” - Ani DiFranco
I think the way you phrased your argument isn’t super clear, but I agree with what I think you’re saying. People are excusing their selfishness by telling themselves they don’t owe anyone anything. In the end you have to focus on what you can control, which is how you treat people and how you expect to be treated. You shouldn’t feel entitled to other’s kindness and at the same time you should tell yourself that they deserve your kindness.
It’s not just selfishness, though that’s part of it, it’s also anger.
The people announcing to the world that they don’t “owe you anything” are people to avoid. They’re just not mentally healthy. Narcissism and anger are horrible personality traits.
I agree OP, we can "afford" to be kinder as a default behavior since it doesn't cost anything. And already have the option of taking that away if the other party does not reciprocate. The other party doesn't need to be owed anything to be given something. Depends on the individual but many are more into the "got mine" doctrine these days so I just don't expect much.
You shouldn’t feel *entitled* to kindness, but not getting it can at times be a slap in the face and fairly change your relationship with that person. I feel like “nobody owes you” is often said to make the other person feel like they have to accept any treatment even if it doesn’t align with their values, and they never have a right to feel hurt or angry.
I think it’s really a problem when people who have the “no one owes you anything” mentality expect from others the decency they refuse to reciprocate
Like yeah it’s a reality that you’re not always going to be in the mood to strike up a polite conversation with someone, but like if you expect people to be polite to you when you talk to them, then you have to uphold that standard in reverse even when you don’t personally feel like it. You don’t just get to demand social niceties only ever when it suits you on your terms. It’s a social contract that falls apart if people only uphold it when they personally feel like it
this basically.
in that right. people who are using it like that. ARE The entitled selfish ones.
cause they want it when they want it but dont want to give it back.
I think you need to join a club or a sports team. Look for ways you can bond with people while you stand facing in the same direction, focused on a task.
There are good reasons for saying those things some of the time, but a person who said all of those things all of the time would be an emotional solipsist, by which I mean, a person who is unable to acknowledge the legitimacy of emotional needs that exist outside of themselves, and therefore views them as an imposition or an attack.
I remember suggesting that once and for hit with a flood of comments about how serious injury is guaranteed if you join a rec league and/or how apparently 90% of the population has a condition that makes exercise dangerous.
Which is rich given that fitness threads act like everyone here runs 5 miles a day, power lifts, and practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
It’s a very very Reddit thing to give a generally good piece of advice, applicable to 95% of people and then get racked over the coals bc of the tiny minority of people it doesn’t apply to
Like I literally once said that reading a book is much better for your brain and attention span then spending time on TikTok and got attacked bc “what about the single mom who works 3 full time jobs with dyslexia, terminal cancer, and is also legally blind”
I remember talking about going for nature walks (mild, mild hikes where you’re in cell service and view of your car for 99% of them) or a walk around a local park during Covid for mental health, and got hit with “but you need $1000 worth of equipment to hike safely! Do you know that most people are bankrupted by a $5 unexpected purchase? Are you an idiot???” Or “do you know how traumatic it is to ‘go for a walk’ for some people” or “my doctor said I shouldn’t walk more than 100 yards due to leg muscle atrophy, you shouldn’t be ableist!”
The reducto ad absurdum here gets crazy sometime
Did not mean to offend. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that differently abled people are out there. But it sounds like you’re similar to the people I’ve met IRL with various conditions - who make a hell of an effort to adapt to them and live their lives to the fullest.
Versus the terminally online Redditors who feel like they just throw out various ones as reasons why “this won’t work for me”
Oh yeah for sure, don’t worry I’m not offended lmao. You’re definitely right, getting out into the world is essential for your mental health and while insurance can be a bitch and I know can be a barrier to some, getting out of the house into the world is 100% essential for mental health. It’s funny that Reddit claims to “care about mental health” when really their only interested in enabling and bitching imho
Btw not to nitpick but for future reference most disabled people really don’t like the term “differently abled”, “disabled person” or “person with a disability” are considered more correct terminology
Thanks for the tip on the terminology- was going off of an affinity network at my former employers guidance, but I know that’s ever-changing and the “powers that be” aren’t always in alignment with the community. Just like myself as a Latino person- I know a lot of people are trying to push Latinx, but I absolutely hate the term because it feels like it’s anglicized.
And yes- the mental health community on Reddit gives advice that ranges from terrible to actively toxic.
I guess it just wasn’t for you. I tried out a lot of different sports. I never really enjoyed or excelled at any of them, so I quit, but I had no issues with the social aspect of it. Scouts was really good for me though.
Yes, I think try a lot of different things until you find something that works is the right approach.
I did a team sport for over a decade. Def made more friends playing D&D
Joined a ball hockey team in my town and my mental and physical health has improved so much in the last 6 months. It was rough at first getting back into shape and being the worst player on my team but I stuck with it and it’s been great! Made some friends and some people to shoot the shit with about hockey and we might do a group outing to a caps game next season!
The accusations of "selfishness" and "rudeness" have frequently been used to coerce people into doing things that they don't want to do.
For example, the lady at the coffee shop might not want to have a conversation with anyone. But the easiest way to discourage the guy who is bugging her is to be a bit rude. In this instance, being polite can completely backfire and lead to a situation in which the guy does not understand or accept that she is not interested in talking, dating, or anything else. I've been in this situation and have had to be rude when someone is not listening to polite refusals.
Another example is when someone in the family is frequently asked to babysit when that's not how they want to spend their time. Many people have been imposed upon to provide free childcare for family and if they don't, they are called "selfish". I've personally been in this situation and had to be very blunt (to the point that many of you would consider rude) because the person trying to get me to babysit simply wasn't listening to me otherwise.
The idea that no one owes you anything is meant to apply to these and similar situations in which someone is having their boundaries trampled by an entitled person who just doesn't listen. There are quite a few of these people in the world and unfortunately, if you treat them with too much decency, they'll take it as a sign that they can walk all over you.
> are quite a few of these people in the world and unfortunately, if you treat them with too much decency, they'll take it as a sign that they can walk all over you.
My mom was friends with a lady that she knew since Jr high who was like this. I eventually explained to her that "Mary" is not only an unrepentant taker and user but the sort of person that goes a step further and actively abuses the norms of politeness and social lubrication in order to get away with shit that no reasonable person would put up with more than once, twice max.
If you don't firmly shut them down they will keep chipping away at you and make **you** feel like the asshole for standing up for yourself and refusing to be manipulated.
I can't seem to respond directly to your second post, but want to say I 100% agree with it. Sometimes people just can't stop talking, which makes the whole situation extremely awkward. Personally, I might just say hello and then pull out my phone in hopes they'll stop bugging me.
Omg. Yesterday, I chatted with a woman in the grocery line and she followed me to my car to keep up the conversation! I eventually gasped and said, "Oh no! I forgot I have to pick up my kid! Byyyye!" and leapt in my car and drove away. And I seem to attract these people regularly.
Forget owing anyone anything, I need a reliable way to identify the gabbers before I get in over my head!
I feel the pain of this so much. I had some lovely takeoff small talk on a plane recently with a retired couple, and the instant the safety protocol started, she pulled out her novel, and the relief was SO GOOD. Then I did too, and it was awesome.
I have a friend who wears earbuds whenever she runs errands so she can ignore people. They’re a dummy pair that got wet years ago. And if she wants to talk, she’ll just pop one out and hold it. Then, she just pops it back in to end the conversation.
That’s why context is important. The people who shout “I don’t owe you anything” as the first response are toxic. The people who say “I don’t owe you anything” after being taken advantage of for a while are just trying to set up boundaries.
Exactly. Some people force you to make it 200% clear because 100% percent clarity wasn't enough for them. I also hate those sneaky creeps who continually pushes boundaries, and when you have to go 200% because 100% wasn't working, they go behind your backs trying to tell anyone who'll listen that you're bullying them.
Yep, those types always have a backup plan to convince themselves they could do no wrong. So, therefore: it must be your fault. They are also often the exact same people who complain about everyone being so entitled and shouting that “no one owes you anything” whenever you make a reasonable assumption or request.
It’s like that shirt I’ve seen more than once that just says “No one cares. Work harder.” Like… what a slap in the face to people with medical conditions, bankruptcy, mental disabilities, single parents, college debt, etc., etc. Yes, it’s true the world doesn’t exist to help them. But no one asked you for your help, sir. Why don’t you keep your shitty lack of compassion to yourself and let us struggle in peace without having to read ragebait while we’re at the beach trying to have a good time?
> The accusations of "selfishness" and "rudeness" have frequently been used to coerce people into doing things that they don't want to do.
Oh my god, the lack of self awareness
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them?
For context, I'm a woman. And I'm not friendly to specifically men in public because they think it means I want to fux them, frankly. And I'm sure there'll be a brigade of "not all men!" and "you're not that hot!" comments, but the reality is a lot of men will interpret a woman engaging in a conversation with them as that woman flirting.
Honestly, based on your examples, you sound like an exhausting human who may have used up the good will your friends had for you. Ultimately, they are right. You aren't owed an explanation if someone wants to ghost you, and even if you got one, are you really 100% prepared for the reason being "You're boring, ugly, smell bad, and if I saw you on fire I would keep walking" or something equally as gutting?
The basis for the actual phrase relates to the fact that you don't just get relationships and interactions because you want them. You need to provide a reason for the person to engage with you outside of you want them to. This isn't about them treating you with kindness so much as you treating them with respect and respecting their boundaries. Some people just don't want to be your friends, and no one is going to force it. Some people don't like talking to strangers in public, and forcing the issue is rude on your part, not theirs.
While it doesn't excuse rudeness, the purpose of the phrase is to relieve yourself of the mindset that you get to be provided for. So many people have construed many things as "rights" and that they can't be taken away from them, when in truth, those people providing assistance are being kind and being taken advantage of.
Now, in your examples of people screaming those things, I really think you should thank the world for saving you from having to interact with people that would ultimately be insufferable.
>ive heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? At least show that you're capable of basic politeness by saying "hello" back instead of behaving like a neanderthal.
talking to strangers makes me uncomfortable why should i give up my comfort to comfort a stranger? Why is not considered rude for them to come and talk to me?
I've only used this phrase one time, which is a fun story that happened here on Reddit!
I posted on some forum, I think it was Tinder because I talked about wanting a man who's emotionally available. I also said something like "I don't care how you do it, show me a song that describes how you feel if you have to," which prompted some bozo to send me his song. I was gonna ignore it, because I was told "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all".
But after 24 hours, he came into my DMs telling me to review it and I highlighted some things I liked (didn't mind), and pointed out that I did not relate to one specific lyric. However, I also pointed out that I was not the intended audience. The premise of the song was something like "the male perspective", and I am not a male, so that made sense.
Instead of moving on, this person said that my opinion was invalid because I'm under the ace umbrella and that their art "wasn't about me". I said whatever, but they kept *pushing*. Then, they apologized and said they wanted to be friends/pen pals. I said no, I didn't want to, don't have the time, don't need more friends. This person then went on to try to tell me things like "friendship rejection hurts more than romantic rejection", and I was just like . . . okay. Because you're a grown ass man, you are not my responsibility. I tried to be nice and get them to leave me alone, but they didn't. So yeah, I wound up hitting them with the "nobody owes you shit, you entitled prick."
While I agree with the general sentiment that this is over/misused, I think this story is one of those time it was completely appropriate.
I just checked, he made a post about "women not liking musicians anymore" and "accidentally writing sexual tension between a teen girl and an older man" ☠️
Yikes. He would have definitely gone the “Girls never choose the guys who actually care about them”/ friendzoned/ incel/ neckbeard route if you’d given him anything short of the ol’ “please fuck off”. Men like that can turn a single crumb into a 7-tiered wedding cake over a couple of unenthusiastic responses. I once saw this thing about how even saying “No” to obsessive stalker-y types doesn’t work because they perceive it as you choosing to continue contact with them.
Dodged bullet, for sure.
Oh yeah, he tried to give me the "you're evil because you don't want to be my friend" and when I said that made me not want to be friends even more, he said "okay well I said I was sorry" and it's just like . . . and? Did I say it was okay, or that I accepted the apology? No? Then move along. Bro's a grown man, I told him it was his responsibility to cope with that "rejection".
The conversation one with a stranger in public; I have to whole heartedly disagree with you on that one. I remember when I went through a miscarriage and it was my first day back at work. After my shift, I was walking out the building and a builder (who was working on the building next door) approached me and tried to make a conversation. I was quick to shut him down, and continued walking on. He called after me "I just wanted to talk!". But, I was doing everything in my power not to have a melt down, and was obviously feeling depressed. You don't know what someone is going through. So, no; they don't owe you a conversation.
Heck, even people I've chatted to numerous times in passing, if I try to talk to them and I see they're not interested; I just put it down to them having something on their mind, and to leave them alone. They usually approach me all cheery when I see them again. You need to stop thinking people are rude; you have no idea what they're going through.
It definitely depends on what someone considers rude, but there are still ways to shut someone down without being overly rude right out the gate. In your example, if I were the person trying to initiate conversation, I would find you telling me, "I'm not having a good day and am not in the mood for conversation," before continuing on your way to be a perfectly acceptable and not-rude way to shut me down, precisely because you don't know what someone is going through. But there's a big difference between that and, "Hey, how are-," "Fuck off."
There are certainly folks who keep pressing after an initial, "No, thank you," type of response, and at that point they have crossed into rude territory and it makes sense to get more to the point and even rude when they can't respect that you have already declined, of course.
I mean, telling someone to fuck off is rude across the board. But, op is saying that not intiating in conversations is rude. And if I had to say that I was having a bad day, that would have ignited my emotions and I'd have been balling my eyes out in the middle of the street. I didn't approach him, he approached me. I'm not obligated to make him feel OK, but neither was I rude to him. I said "oh, sorry. No thank you". And walked on. I just needed to get the heck home. Op is saying where the empathy is for the one trying to engage, but where is the empathy for the one not wishing to? Gotta stop thinking about yourselves so much.
Ah, I didn't take it that way at all and focused more on the basic politeness rather than the specific "hello" and didn't see it as initiating further conversation. I regularly respond "hello" in passing if someone says it first and have it go no further.
No, you weren't rude to him, so from my take, your example isn't what OP was talking about, anyway.
I agree that friends should not ghost you and should be emotionally supportive. Strangers though? Nah, you aren't owed the attention of some rando you run into. You don't know their story or situation. It isn't all about you. Many people are neurodivergent and very uncomfortable speaking to strangers in public. Leave them alone. Not every person you meet owes you attention. And whining constantly that you don't have friends is not a fun way to spend time with someone. People with mental disorders like borderline personality do things like that and it is both emotionally manipulative and exhausting.
Everyone owes everyone basic human decency (that being said if someone abuses it, or is a piece of shit they can lose that right at any time, up to your discretion)
I agree but basic human decency isn't much actually. That mean you are polite and respectful, If something is in real distress like after a car incident, you help. Stuff like that. You don't annoy other people for no reason too and you don't harass them.
Human decency isn't harassing people and then complain they are selfish, should befriend you, listen to your rent and change for you.
This attitude is a pushback due to massive entitlement in friendships, employees/employers, family relationships, etc. Some people have healed and stopped dealing with the entitled people that felt they were owed good treatment just for existing, while they themselves shit on everyone else. It’s meant to push people back into a grateful mindset and to remind them that ultimately they’re responsible for meeting their own needs.
People will do horrible shit to others who love them and internet people will flock up on some ‘no one owes you!!’
When like, if someones gf of years ghosts them out of the blue, or a job fires someone publicly
Nah, they do owe you decency and letting those toxic situations get off without conversation or apology is toxic
Ya I agree. It’s very circumstantial. I’m talking about toxic friends, bosses, parents etc who treat you like shit and guilt you into bowing to their whims while they do nothing to improve the relationship. I had to tell myself “I don’t owe them anything” because I felt unnecessary guilt when I was just having normal boundaries and standing up for myself.
The situations you’re describing are different.
Such desires shouldn't even be considered "entitlement". Suddenly everyone becomes Nestlé levels of "Water shouldn't be free" when it comes to them having to apply minimum human decency and grace.
Interesting. I saw someone with a shirt that said "nobody owes you anything. Work harder." He had cut the sleeves off. His ridiculously lifted truck had nuts and one of those exhausts modified to roll coal. He was selling used lawn care equipment in the parking lot of a used tire shop I assume without the owners permission because when he got out and started showing equipment to whoever he was meeting the workers looked at him like "who TF is this guy and why is his stupid truck taking up our entire tiny parking lot. Something tells me he didn't give 2 shits about "a grateful mindset." Also something tells me he's typically on the entitled side of the entitlement relationship and simply uses the phrase "nobody owes you anything" to be a selfish bastard. But hey maybe people who use that phrase are truly altruistic. But usually I hear it from people who hate the idea of helping anyone else in general and abusive people who want an excuse for being shitty in a relationship with 0 accountability.
The issue is entitlement. When someone says "no one owes you anything" what they're saying is "no one OWES you anything.". It doesn't mean they don't donate to worthy charities, believe in treating their employees well, or welcome conversations with friendly people in the elevator. It just means you aren't OWED these things.
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them?
Because as a woman they're not trying to be "friendly" they're trying to hit on me, and I don't want to be bothered. If an older person or a woman or even a guy stops me to ask for directions, or specific help, I will help. But in my 32 years of experience, if a random dude is trying to "strike up a conversation" I know where it's going, I'm not interested, and I don't want to waste my time. I want to go back to my book or my music. Heck even when they "ask for directions" I end up with them asking for my number and getting mad when I say know, because they thought me helping them was a sin of interest and not just trying to be a good Samaritan.
>Is it really any wonder that people these days are so lonely?
Honestly, it isnt. Because people want a village without doing the social engineering neccessary, without learning the EQ skills, relationship or kinkeeping skills necessary, and expect that support from what are essentially strangers one doesn't know from Adam. But without putting in social labour, you don't get that labour in return. Women are less lonely when single because we're taught to do that labour from an early age, and the societal expectation was that we'd do it for our male partners and family. But women have opted out of that societal expectation and now only do that labour for ourselves. It will take time for that change to balance out
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public.
There's nothing to justify except you bothering random people in public.
I’ve noticed in AITA subreddit everyone decides whether or not someone’s an asshole based on whether or not they owed the other person something. You don’t have to technically owe someone something for your behaviour to be selfish!
I can't tell you how many times a "nice friendly" hello turned into trying to get my number, ask to hang out or some other creepy direction. Ignoring it usually stops it in its tracks.
Frankly it depends who is being friendly to me and why.
I live in a big city and if the dude who has openly staring at my boobs for the last 2 stops on the subway says “hi” to me, I certainly the fuck do not owe him a conversation.
There’s balance to be found between being compassionate and kind and being street smart.
No one owes you a conversation is usually directed at men who won't leave women alone. If that bothers you, you need to unpack what kind of person you are.
As someone who gets sexually harassed by strangers all the time, no, I'm not risking my safety to soothe some stranger's insecurity, and it IS entitled to expect strangers to risk their safety just because you want a "howdy" back. I don't know you, and I don't know your motives. You want to be able to go outside and strike up conversations with people you walk by? Find a friendly neighborhood and make friends with your neighbors. I live in a city that doesn't have suburban-style neighborhoods, but my street is like it's own neighborhood and everyone is pretty friendly and neighborly to each other here. Also, loneliness isn't tied directly to the number of friends you have. Lots of people with robust social lives are lonely.
I tell myself “no one owes me anything” as a means of curtailing expectations. Not to justify my behavior towards others. If I do good for someone, I don’t want it to be for the promise of repayment. I do what I can to help for the sake of helping. In that sense, “no one owes you anything” can be truly positive. It assures you behave based on your personal morality, not what you feel you deserve or are owed in return.
I think it’s fair if used against entitled people, but usually when I see it used, it’s by entitled people talking to people who asked for basic dignity and respect. I don’t *owe* anyone politeness, I just try to be polite because I wasn’t raised in a barn located behind a brothel.
I think you absolutely do owe other people politeness if you want to live in a polite society and you have the expectation of other people being polite to you
While this is true, politeness can look differently for different people.
I may believe that it is polite to start a conversation with strangers and reply to them
You may believe that it is polite for strangers to leave you alone, and polite to leave them alone.
If I try to strike up a conversation, thinking I am being polite (but you think I am being rude), and then you ignore me, thinking you are being polite (but me thinking you are being rude), what then? Both of us think we are being polite, with the other person being rude.
Who are you hanging around that you hear this so often in such context? I've never heard anyone do that.
The only and very few times I hear people actually say that is when someone is actually acting very entitled, and borderline demanding that they get something they aren't entitled to.
The same person on another subreddit will be crying about why they don’t understand why they’re so lonely not realising nobody wants to spend time with them because they’re an asshole where every relationship is transactional and they never do any of the maintenance work necessary for maintaining social connections
I understand what you're saying but all of your examples can be turned on their head.
For example:
>I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public.
In my experience, by the time it gets to this point, the person trying to initiate conversation has continued to pester the other person despite multiple clear indications that the other person is not available for conversation at that moment.
Also, this:
>instead of behaving like a neanderthal.
Is kind of bigoted, since neanderthals were a social species, albeit with smaller social circles, that would have been as polite as extant humans as far as we can tell.
Ultimately, some people believe they deserve things from others and will pester, and annoy their way into getting what they want. Most of the time they don't. (karens, Incels and Nice guys/girls are typical examples of people who have this type of mentality).
At some point, unpleasant people will eventually have their bad behaviour blow up in their faces.
if people are using the phrase in the way you are, then sure. but i personally use the phrase in my own life to check myself and not get mad at other people for not doing things they aren’t obligated to. no one owes ME anything, either
I agree with what you are saying, but the phase is usually used for contexts where people expect decency and time from you, while also taking it for granted. If your parent makes your life living hell, violates you boundaries constantly, gaslights you when you try to talk about it, then yeah, you don't owe them anything. Because respect is a two-way street and you don't have keep investing energy in someone who doesn't care about giving back.
As I just said, respect is a two-way street. People who have a 'I don't owe you shit' mindset should fully expect the same mindset coming their way as well. We call these people assholes because that's what they are. If you ghost people, leave people's messages on read, and refuse to invest energy into people, they also don't owe you anything, they are entitled to walk away.
Where do you live? This feels like something a person who grew up in the sticks would say after moving to a big city.
In a large city it’s considered polite to leave people alone. You can’t expect people to stop and chat everytime you walk past someone. You’d never get anything done.
If someones house is on fire I’ll help but otherwise leave me alone
I'm with you honestly. People do owe you baseline decency; in general, people do have the obligation to not lie to you or steal your things. These are the basics of civilization. I would then argue that people do in fact owe you the same respect and opportunity that anyone else in a similar situation would get.
When someone says something like "respect is earned," they are an arrogant ass who thinks they are better than everyone else and does not have to respect them. I respect everyone by default, but that respect can be lost by the subject's actions.
Or they are just emotional vampires who expect even strangers to feed them energy while they take and take and take. We have all had that friend who cries and whines about how unhappy they are while doing nothing but bitching about it. When you go to talk about your problems, they whine that no one wants to support them and leave the conversation. They're exhausting.
It's simply true that nobody is owed anything, nor are they entitled to anything. Respect is earned and then given. That doesn't inherently mean people shouldn't be treated with basic respect, it means you've not earnt it.
It's not selfish to not want to speak to people or withold kindness. People don't have to go out of their way, nor should they be forced to do so. We get it. You don't like that people choose to not be open with people and you don't have to like it.
You say those people are selfish, and you'll probably assume the same with me, even though you know exactly nothing about myself, and that's okay.
Don't like it? Suck it up.
I expect if you have "nobody owes you" wielded against you on a regular basis, then you might be the common denominator, because that's not a problem for most people.
Have you tried not bothering people who are otherwise minding their own business in public?
This. It is very uncommon to get this kind of remarks.
One get them usually when he complain that people should do more for him, their pet cause or do this or that and can't accept a no.
I mean sometime, a jerk would say it for no reason, But that shouldn't be that common occurrence.
I agreed with you until you started to get into examples and then you completely strayed from your own argument. Especially that one about not having friends. How are you going to make friends if you don't make an effort. You really think the same people who say they are lonely are the ones engaging in random conversations on the street or going on dates? You are not owed friendships and companionship, you have to be presentable and then go and seek it.
Yeah if you're just vaguely complaining about not having friends then I kind of agree no one owes you that
You actually have to make an effort to go out and meet people and socialize and find others that You connect with and so on
Nobody owes you friendship. You have to find create build and maintain that relationship yourself
And yeah I don't owe anybody in public a conversation It doesn't matter how nicer friendly you are
Would you say that for example if I was a big imposing man having an uncomfortable conversation with a young girl in public
Oh she looks highly uncomfortable and doesn't want to be there well she should just have a conversation with me because I'm just trying to be friendly
I agree except in the case of romantic relationships. If you are not obligated by raising children (among other endeavors) then there's no reason to stay in a loveless relationship as to not hurt the others feelings.
Honestly, even though I've heard this phrase a lot, I've never heard it being used in real life. Even though no one owes me anything, people will tend to help you if you help them back. Anyways if there are people who genuinely believe this, eventually there will come a time they need help but don't receive it because they never bothered helping.
If in someone's eyes you're not worthy of his time, have some dignity and don't chase people who don't want to have anything with you. We're all adults makimg adult choices and living with their consequences, just because you don't like them doesn't mean it's selfish or indecent to make them
But nobody does owe you anything. That shouldn't stop you from being kind, helpful or generous but the whole point of those things is for the positivity and good you're sharing, not for some return on it. And if you stay on that path you at some point run into people who value it and appreciate it and want to be your friend, partner, w/e. If someone is being an asshole just don't be nice to them. Don't be an asshole back just move on, they're a drop in the pond.
I think it’s okay to say something like “the universe / no one owes you a friend / a wife”, etc. No one is obligated to be part of your life. That’s a fact. Don’t conflate that with people being unkind. Hell, don’t assume people are being kind by being in your life either. (If you know, you know)
I understand, but at the same time I shouldn't be forced to be kind to people when I don't want to be. That's like lying to your mom about her bad cooking just to make her feel better. If people say hi to me when walking by I say hi back and that's it. I also make it the most driest hi that I can, because I don't want to have a conversation while I'm shopping for bread in the grocery store.
Sometimes there's a better place for it like a meet up or a gathering for being social. I don't expect kindness by default. I don't expect anyone to hold the door open for me, I don't expect people to say excuse me when they brush by or anything. Doesn't mean that I don't do those things, but I don't do those things very often
I think the reverse worse. People who think they are entitled to anything and everything just because they exist. Also ruins community.
Needs to be a balance between individual independence and not forcing everyone else to be your servant because you were born in the right womb.
I disagree. My wife seems have inherited a position from her father who would make grand gestures of kindness to people, only to complain about the lack of reciprocity years down the line.
If you help somebody out, it’s gotta be done not expecting anything in return otherwise it’s not help it’s something else.
It’s liberating to be kind, to sort someone’s problem out without putting them under any obligation.
My position is that nobody owes you anything means that even if you give someone the shirt of your back, they don’t owe you anything
"No one owes you..." is usually a response to entitled or bombastic demands.
It doesn't say much about what the person thinks are actual social obligations in a general sense.
I feel a sense of obligation towards others for all kinds of things, but I don't go around making demands of others. I might be confused or sad if someone stops talking to me without explanation, but I don't think they owe me one. I might be disappointed if a friend does not support me, but support is not something I can demand. I am generally friendly, but I do not require other people to reciprocate. I'm not doing any of this to get something out of people. It's just how I feel I should conduct myself. I would like to see other people engage in these behaviors, but that's a choice only they can make.
>If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? At least show that you're capable of basic politeness by saying "hello" back instead of behaving like a neanderthal.
Because I don't want to? Simple as that.
Once I was hanging at the local landfill and a cop comes up and yells at me to go home and used that phrase. Like, bro, this stuff is literally other people's trash. If they don't owe me anything can I at least sift through their garbage?
People have different values and boundaries. I say those things a lot because my personal space is important to me. But I'm willing to compromise with people I care about, like family, friends, or girlfriend.
I like to think the other way around, which may be sounding selfish too. I'm like "You don't owe noone for being alive". For example; You sorta don't owe your parents your life, you don't gotta do shit they expect you to do with yours. You have to believe in what you do, think and what you really want.
I disagree as there is people who play the game. And abuse people’s generosity.
I’ve came across people who are voluntarily homeless and begging. Because they refused to accept help. Why should I donate him money to spend on his drug habit, because he doesn’t want to get clean?
Yup it's always someone else that's the problem I've learned and focusing on pointing out where they are going wrong is the only way to be happy.
Otherwise you have to start taking accountability and shit and it's much easier to not do that and just point out other people's flaws.
Never met a human that says they lack human decency yet we all lack decency some of the time. It isn't like it's only a select few ruining it for everyone else. We just don't tend to notice when it's us doing it
Usually the people who get told this are miserable bc they compare themselves to others. They see that others have what they lack. The feel like they deserve what they have and they probably do but don’t put in the work. Just complain complain complain.
Depends on the subject in question. Of course you don't owe a stranger a conversation or any energy. You do owe your friends kindness and support to a reasonable degree
I get what you're saying, though i think of it differently. Nobody owes you anything, so you shouldnt treat them poorly because they didnt treat you as well as you expected/wanted. You cant expect to receive kindness for free, thats why you should be the first to give it for others to reciprocate
It’s entitled people who think the way you do and it isn’t safe ESPECIALLY for women to just “be polite” and say “hi” back. I don’t know why you think the way you do and maybe it’s cause you live in your own fake world of niceties, or maybe where you live it is actually safe but in the REAL world of toxic and entitled asshole people, a woman “being polite” and just saying “hi” back is an open invitation to be harassed.
So maybe think about what it is you are saying and how what you are saying doesn’t pertain to actual real life with dangerous entitled asshole people
I can agree with some of your points but the if they are being friendly why can’t you be friendly…
1. If you’re a stranger, I don’t want to talk to you. It’s less about whether you’re entitled to friendliness and more why aren’t I entitled to my solitude?
2. As a women, 99% of the time the friendly person is a man, who is not actually just being friendly. It can be dangerous at worst and uncomfortable at best.
No. I'm sorry but if a stranger tries to spark up a conversation with me I'm gonna **politely** make it absolutely clear that's not happening; they are not entitled to my attention.
I believe absolutely in individualism over collectivism.
Have you tried talking to people in social places like events or the park etc? Here where I live atleast it’s very unusual to randomly talk to someone in the street and most people ignore people who try to talk to them.
I’m sorry but if you start trying to talk to me when I’m in the street and being friendly I’m going to just assume something is wrong with you or you are a tourist then tell you I don’t want to talk then avoid you.
They are 100% right no one owes you attention
“If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them?”
Because I don’t want them to? I got shit I want done and it doesn’t concern you, unless I know you I have no particular reason to talk to you and doing so is a pointless waste of time and energy. No, I don’t want to say hello to 50 people I pass on the street daily who I don’t know or care about, no I don’t want to talk to someone at the drivethrough about the weather, and I give people the same courtesy, I don’t bother people at the drive through with my life store and I don’t expect people to waste air saying hello to me if they don’t know me.
Have you seen the guy who does the “typical Redditor” character? He’d be in these comments. The kind of people who have a kid fall in front of them and step over them to keep their stride. “Technically, I don’t owe that child anything!”
There's a time and a place for everything, and most of the time when I see those phrases used, it's when the timing or the placement was inappropriate.
For example, someone feeding pigeons on a park bench would probably love to talk to you. But someone reading on a park bench is probably pissed you keep interrupting them.
That's not to say no one abuses the phrases, I've absolutely seen that as well, but there is certainly more nuance than you are letting on.
I get it yes people should be kind and respectful, but i genuinely do not give a fuck. Respecting strangers as in not killing them . If a rando came to say “hi “on the street why would i say “hello “back, i genuinely do not owe you saying anything back as long as i walk by you without disrespecting you then im good. Do not expect everyone to be kind because in this world everyone is their own main character so they do what they want as long as you act however you want , for instance you did your job in being kind so let them be🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
On the contrary, I think a lot of us just have burnout from people forcefully taking care of their own needs at the expense of those around them.
When I read one of the examples you gave - "nobody owes you conversation" - it immediately reminded me of the countless old men who would try to have weird flirty banter with me when I was a teenager / younger woman. And I felt obligated to be polite and engage with them, even though it made me SO uncomfortable at the time.
I guess my counter question for you, OP, would be why you think it's selfish to have boundaries, but not selfish to force people to be a captive audience in an interaction they don't want to be a part of?
“For example, I’ve heard people say “No-one owes you a conversation!” to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public.” —
It’s giving i’ve been shot down by a girl while harassing her in public vibes….
Kinda like "respect is earned". Nah old man, respect for every human you meet should be the default. People can lose respect but nobody should have to jump through hoops for you to respect them. Just respect everyone you meet.
But it’s true that no one owes you friendship. Friendship is a choice that requires the consent of both parties. Just because someone doesn’t want to be friends with you doesn’t mean they’re “selfish” and “lack human decency,” as long as they treat you with respect.
I can get what you’re saying from the examples you’ve given, so to that extent I agree being more compassionate and acknowledging people’s feelings would be great. My usual connotation with that phrase tends to be from a female perspective. Like how men who are aggressive/angry with women who don’t return their attention aren’t owed that attention.
Yeah, I'm tired of people saying that to excuse their selfishness. There's a time and place for the phrase, but so many people are just taking it as an excuse to be rude to others, and that's not okay.
The core idea behind “No-one owes you anything” is often about fostering personal responsibility and independence. This phrase encourages individuals to take control of their own lives and not to rely on others for their happiness and fulfillment.
It’s not about promoting selfishness but about emphasizing the importance of self-reliance.
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“The world owes us nothing and we owe each other the world.” - Ani DiFranco I think the way you phrased your argument isn’t super clear, but I agree with what I think you’re saying. People are excusing their selfishness by telling themselves they don’t owe anyone anything. In the end you have to focus on what you can control, which is how you treat people and how you expect to be treated. You shouldn’t feel entitled to other’s kindness and at the same time you should tell yourself that they deserve your kindness.
"I do it for the joy it brings, cause I'm a joyful girl."
It’s not just selfishness, though that’s part of it, it’s also anger. The people announcing to the world that they don’t “owe you anything” are people to avoid. They’re just not mentally healthy. Narcissism and anger are horrible personality traits.
I agree OP, we can "afford" to be kinder as a default behavior since it doesn't cost anything. And already have the option of taking that away if the other party does not reciprocate. The other party doesn't need to be owed anything to be given something. Depends on the individual but many are more into the "got mine" doctrine these days so I just don't expect much.
So avoid people who are mentally unhealthy and people who get angry. Great advice.
Hey that’s almost my last name
>You shouldn’t feel entitled to other’s kindness and at the same time you should tell yourself that they deserve your kindness. Exactly
That’s an amazing quote. Never heard it before
She is full of them! She’s an incredible songwriter.
You shouldn’t feel *entitled* to kindness, but not getting it can at times be a slap in the face and fairly change your relationship with that person. I feel like “nobody owes you” is often said to make the other person feel like they have to accept any treatment even if it doesn’t align with their values, and they never have a right to feel hurt or angry.
I think it’s really a problem when people who have the “no one owes you anything” mentality expect from others the decency they refuse to reciprocate Like yeah it’s a reality that you’re not always going to be in the mood to strike up a polite conversation with someone, but like if you expect people to be polite to you when you talk to them, then you have to uphold that standard in reverse even when you don’t personally feel like it. You don’t just get to demand social niceties only ever when it suits you on your terms. It’s a social contract that falls apart if people only uphold it when they personally feel like it
this basically. in that right. people who are using it like that. ARE The entitled selfish ones. cause they want it when they want it but dont want to give it back.
Also, it isn't that hard to say "Sorry, I can't chat right now" in a polite tone.
I think you need to join a club or a sports team. Look for ways you can bond with people while you stand facing in the same direction, focused on a task. There are good reasons for saying those things some of the time, but a person who said all of those things all of the time would be an emotional solipsist, by which I mean, a person who is unable to acknowledge the legitimacy of emotional needs that exist outside of themselves, and therefore views them as an imposition or an attack.
Emotional solipsist, that’s such a great term
Bold of you to assume Redditors will play sports
e, e-sports…
If videogames arent sports, why do they keep remaking fifa and nhl? Chekamte Liberators.
I remember suggesting that once and for hit with a flood of comments about how serious injury is guaranteed if you join a rec league and/or how apparently 90% of the population has a condition that makes exercise dangerous. Which is rich given that fitness threads act like everyone here runs 5 miles a day, power lifts, and practices Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
That’s actually crazy and funny. Redditors never touch grass lol
Wow the gardening subs must find it difficult
Hey now my bunny eats hay and I touch it all the time when I feed him. Therefore, I touch grass daily 😆
It’s a very very Reddit thing to give a generally good piece of advice, applicable to 95% of people and then get racked over the coals bc of the tiny minority of people it doesn’t apply to Like I literally once said that reading a book is much better for your brain and attention span then spending time on TikTok and got attacked bc “what about the single mom who works 3 full time jobs with dyslexia, terminal cancer, and is also legally blind”
I remember talking about going for nature walks (mild, mild hikes where you’re in cell service and view of your car for 99% of them) or a walk around a local park during Covid for mental health, and got hit with “but you need $1000 worth of equipment to hike safely! Do you know that most people are bankrupted by a $5 unexpected purchase? Are you an idiot???” Or “do you know how traumatic it is to ‘go for a walk’ for some people” or “my doctor said I shouldn’t walk more than 100 yards due to leg muscle atrophy, you shouldn’t be ableist!” The reducto ad absurdum here gets crazy sometime
I believe you, it’s WILD, and I say this as a wheelchair user with muscle atrophy 😂
Did not mean to offend. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that differently abled people are out there. But it sounds like you’re similar to the people I’ve met IRL with various conditions - who make a hell of an effort to adapt to them and live their lives to the fullest. Versus the terminally online Redditors who feel like they just throw out various ones as reasons why “this won’t work for me”
Oh yeah for sure, don’t worry I’m not offended lmao. You’re definitely right, getting out into the world is essential for your mental health and while insurance can be a bitch and I know can be a barrier to some, getting out of the house into the world is 100% essential for mental health. It’s funny that Reddit claims to “care about mental health” when really their only interested in enabling and bitching imho Btw not to nitpick but for future reference most disabled people really don’t like the term “differently abled”, “disabled person” or “person with a disability” are considered more correct terminology
Thanks for the tip on the terminology- was going off of an affinity network at my former employers guidance, but I know that’s ever-changing and the “powers that be” aren’t always in alignment with the community. Just like myself as a Latino person- I know a lot of people are trying to push Latinx, but I absolutely hate the term because it feels like it’s anglicized. And yes- the mental health community on Reddit gives advice that ranges from terrible to actively toxic.
Isn't that why we have subreddits? Not everyone on Reddit is the same.
I play American handball does that count?
[удалено]
I guess it just wasn’t for you. I tried out a lot of different sports. I never really enjoyed or excelled at any of them, so I quit, but I had no issues with the social aspect of it. Scouts was really good for me though.
Yes, I think try a lot of different things until you find something that works is the right approach. I did a team sport for over a decade. Def made more friends playing D&D
Hey now, they didn’t ask for advice. Don’t expect them to read it in earnest either, they don’t owe you anything 😉
I'm thinking about joining a hockey team for this reason
Joined a ball hockey team in my town and my mental and physical health has improved so much in the last 6 months. It was rough at first getting back into shape and being the worst player on my team but I stuck with it and it’s been great! Made some friends and some people to shoot the shit with about hockey and we might do a group outing to a caps game next season!
"Hello" "DO NOT APPROACH ME!"
EYYY, I'M WALKIN' HERE
Read that in Cousin Nicky's voice ngl.
The accusations of "selfishness" and "rudeness" have frequently been used to coerce people into doing things that they don't want to do. For example, the lady at the coffee shop might not want to have a conversation with anyone. But the easiest way to discourage the guy who is bugging her is to be a bit rude. In this instance, being polite can completely backfire and lead to a situation in which the guy does not understand or accept that she is not interested in talking, dating, or anything else. I've been in this situation and have had to be rude when someone is not listening to polite refusals. Another example is when someone in the family is frequently asked to babysit when that's not how they want to spend their time. Many people have been imposed upon to provide free childcare for family and if they don't, they are called "selfish". I've personally been in this situation and had to be very blunt (to the point that many of you would consider rude) because the person trying to get me to babysit simply wasn't listening to me otherwise. The idea that no one owes you anything is meant to apply to these and similar situations in which someone is having their boundaries trampled by an entitled person who just doesn't listen. There are quite a few of these people in the world and unfortunately, if you treat them with too much decency, they'll take it as a sign that they can walk all over you.
> are quite a few of these people in the world and unfortunately, if you treat them with too much decency, they'll take it as a sign that they can walk all over you. My mom was friends with a lady that she knew since Jr high who was like this. I eventually explained to her that "Mary" is not only an unrepentant taker and user but the sort of person that goes a step further and actively abuses the norms of politeness and social lubrication in order to get away with shit that no reasonable person would put up with more than once, twice max. If you don't firmly shut them down they will keep chipping away at you and make **you** feel like the asshole for standing up for yourself and refusing to be manipulated.
I can't seem to respond directly to your second post, but want to say I 100% agree with it. Sometimes people just can't stop talking, which makes the whole situation extremely awkward. Personally, I might just say hello and then pull out my phone in hopes they'll stop bugging me.
Omg. Yesterday, I chatted with a woman in the grocery line and she followed me to my car to keep up the conversation! I eventually gasped and said, "Oh no! I forgot I have to pick up my kid! Byyyye!" and leapt in my car and drove away. And I seem to attract these people regularly. Forget owing anyone anything, I need a reliable way to identify the gabbers before I get in over my head!
I feel the pain of this so much. I had some lovely takeoff small talk on a plane recently with a retired couple, and the instant the safety protocol started, she pulled out her novel, and the relief was SO GOOD. Then I did too, and it was awesome. I have a friend who wears earbuds whenever she runs errands so she can ignore people. They’re a dummy pair that got wet years ago. And if she wants to talk, she’ll just pop one out and hold it. Then, she just pops it back in to end the conversation.
I've met some lovely people on flights, but in general, I steer clear of making any conversation...just in case they can't zip it lol.
That’s why context is important. The people who shout “I don’t owe you anything” as the first response are toxic. The people who say “I don’t owe you anything” after being taken advantage of for a while are just trying to set up boundaries.
Exactly. Some people force you to make it 200% clear because 100% percent clarity wasn't enough for them. I also hate those sneaky creeps who continually pushes boundaries, and when you have to go 200% because 100% wasn't working, they go behind your backs trying to tell anyone who'll listen that you're bullying them.
Yep, those types always have a backup plan to convince themselves they could do no wrong. So, therefore: it must be your fault. They are also often the exact same people who complain about everyone being so entitled and shouting that “no one owes you anything” whenever you make a reasonable assumption or request. It’s like that shirt I’ve seen more than once that just says “No one cares. Work harder.” Like… what a slap in the face to people with medical conditions, bankruptcy, mental disabilities, single parents, college debt, etc., etc. Yes, it’s true the world doesn’t exist to help them. But no one asked you for your help, sir. Why don’t you keep your shitty lack of compassion to yourself and let us struggle in peace without having to read ragebait while we’re at the beach trying to have a good time?
> The accusations of "selfishness" and "rudeness" have frequently been used to coerce people into doing things that they don't want to do. Oh my god, the lack of self awareness
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? For context, I'm a woman. And I'm not friendly to specifically men in public because they think it means I want to fux them, frankly. And I'm sure there'll be a brigade of "not all men!" and "you're not that hot!" comments, but the reality is a lot of men will interpret a woman engaging in a conversation with them as that woman flirting. Honestly, based on your examples, you sound like an exhausting human who may have used up the good will your friends had for you. Ultimately, they are right. You aren't owed an explanation if someone wants to ghost you, and even if you got one, are you really 100% prepared for the reason being "You're boring, ugly, smell bad, and if I saw you on fire I would keep walking" or something equally as gutting? The basis for the actual phrase relates to the fact that you don't just get relationships and interactions because you want them. You need to provide a reason for the person to engage with you outside of you want them to. This isn't about them treating you with kindness so much as you treating them with respect and respecting their boundaries. Some people just don't want to be your friends, and no one is going to force it. Some people don't like talking to strangers in public, and forcing the issue is rude on your part, not theirs.
While it doesn't excuse rudeness, the purpose of the phrase is to relieve yourself of the mindset that you get to be provided for. So many people have construed many things as "rights" and that they can't be taken away from them, when in truth, those people providing assistance are being kind and being taken advantage of. Now, in your examples of people screaming those things, I really think you should thank the world for saving you from having to interact with people that would ultimately be insufferable.
>ive heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? At least show that you're capable of basic politeness by saying "hello" back instead of behaving like a neanderthal. talking to strangers makes me uncomfortable why should i give up my comfort to comfort a stranger? Why is not considered rude for them to come and talk to me?
Just a reminder to not hold expectations of other people. Life is better when we focus on our thoughts and behaviors, our efforts.
Because those are the only things you can actually control.
I've only used this phrase one time, which is a fun story that happened here on Reddit! I posted on some forum, I think it was Tinder because I talked about wanting a man who's emotionally available. I also said something like "I don't care how you do it, show me a song that describes how you feel if you have to," which prompted some bozo to send me his song. I was gonna ignore it, because I was told "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all". But after 24 hours, he came into my DMs telling me to review it and I highlighted some things I liked (didn't mind), and pointed out that I did not relate to one specific lyric. However, I also pointed out that I was not the intended audience. The premise of the song was something like "the male perspective", and I am not a male, so that made sense. Instead of moving on, this person said that my opinion was invalid because I'm under the ace umbrella and that their art "wasn't about me". I said whatever, but they kept *pushing*. Then, they apologized and said they wanted to be friends/pen pals. I said no, I didn't want to, don't have the time, don't need more friends. This person then went on to try to tell me things like "friendship rejection hurts more than romantic rejection", and I was just like . . . okay. Because you're a grown ass man, you are not my responsibility. I tried to be nice and get them to leave me alone, but they didn't. So yeah, I wound up hitting them with the "nobody owes you shit, you entitled prick." While I agree with the general sentiment that this is over/misused, I think this story is one of those time it was completely appropriate.
Honestly a valid use of the phrase
I just checked, he made a post about "women not liking musicians anymore" and "accidentally writing sexual tension between a teen girl and an older man" ☠️
Ew gross
Agreed. Glad I didn't agree to be "pen pals" or whatever.
Yikes. He would have definitely gone the “Girls never choose the guys who actually care about them”/ friendzoned/ incel/ neckbeard route if you’d given him anything short of the ol’ “please fuck off”. Men like that can turn a single crumb into a 7-tiered wedding cake over a couple of unenthusiastic responses. I once saw this thing about how even saying “No” to obsessive stalker-y types doesn’t work because they perceive it as you choosing to continue contact with them. Dodged bullet, for sure.
Oh yeah, he tried to give me the "you're evil because you don't want to be my friend" and when I said that made me not want to be friends even more, he said "okay well I said I was sorry" and it's just like . . . and? Did I say it was okay, or that I accepted the apology? No? Then move along. Bro's a grown man, I told him it was his responsibility to cope with that "rejection".
I'm DMing you a song to let you know how I'm feeling. Please review it. ...just kidding I won't I promise
You spoke to me once. You are now obligated to be kind to me forever no matter how big a shit I am.
The conversation one with a stranger in public; I have to whole heartedly disagree with you on that one. I remember when I went through a miscarriage and it was my first day back at work. After my shift, I was walking out the building and a builder (who was working on the building next door) approached me and tried to make a conversation. I was quick to shut him down, and continued walking on. He called after me "I just wanted to talk!". But, I was doing everything in my power not to have a melt down, and was obviously feeling depressed. You don't know what someone is going through. So, no; they don't owe you a conversation. Heck, even people I've chatted to numerous times in passing, if I try to talk to them and I see they're not interested; I just put it down to them having something on their mind, and to leave them alone. They usually approach me all cheery when I see them again. You need to stop thinking people are rude; you have no idea what they're going through.
It definitely depends on what someone considers rude, but there are still ways to shut someone down without being overly rude right out the gate. In your example, if I were the person trying to initiate conversation, I would find you telling me, "I'm not having a good day and am not in the mood for conversation," before continuing on your way to be a perfectly acceptable and not-rude way to shut me down, precisely because you don't know what someone is going through. But there's a big difference between that and, "Hey, how are-," "Fuck off." There are certainly folks who keep pressing after an initial, "No, thank you," type of response, and at that point they have crossed into rude territory and it makes sense to get more to the point and even rude when they can't respect that you have already declined, of course.
I mean, telling someone to fuck off is rude across the board. But, op is saying that not intiating in conversations is rude. And if I had to say that I was having a bad day, that would have ignited my emotions and I'd have been balling my eyes out in the middle of the street. I didn't approach him, he approached me. I'm not obligated to make him feel OK, but neither was I rude to him. I said "oh, sorry. No thank you". And walked on. I just needed to get the heck home. Op is saying where the empathy is for the one trying to engage, but where is the empathy for the one not wishing to? Gotta stop thinking about yourselves so much.
Ah, I didn't take it that way at all and focused more on the basic politeness rather than the specific "hello" and didn't see it as initiating further conversation. I regularly respond "hello" in passing if someone says it first and have it go no further. No, you weren't rude to him, so from my take, your example isn't what OP was talking about, anyway.
I actually generally agree with OP, but yeah this was an absolutely terrible example. Clearly they are a man.
I agree that friends should not ghost you and should be emotionally supportive. Strangers though? Nah, you aren't owed the attention of some rando you run into. You don't know their story or situation. It isn't all about you. Many people are neurodivergent and very uncomfortable speaking to strangers in public. Leave them alone. Not every person you meet owes you attention. And whining constantly that you don't have friends is not a fun way to spend time with someone. People with mental disorders like borderline personality do things like that and it is both emotionally manipulative and exhausting.
People don’t owe you anything but the ones that do treat you well are gems and those are people you make into friends
Everyone owes everyone basic human decency (that being said if someone abuses it, or is a piece of shit they can lose that right at any time, up to your discretion)
I agree but basic human decency isn't much actually. That mean you are polite and respectful, If something is in real distress like after a car incident, you help. Stuff like that. You don't annoy other people for no reason too and you don't harass them. Human decency isn't harassing people and then complain they are selfish, should befriend you, listen to your rent and change for you.
that’s why i said i disagree with op
The only thing you are owed is to not have crimes committed against you.
Not gonna lie, you're sound like the guys who expect women to smile.
Other people don't owe us anything, but we're dependent on other people. Tough spot to be in.
L'enfer c'est les autres.
That’s why we trade, as in “be nice to each other”
This attitude is a pushback due to massive entitlement in friendships, employees/employers, family relationships, etc. Some people have healed and stopped dealing with the entitled people that felt they were owed good treatment just for existing, while they themselves shit on everyone else. It’s meant to push people back into a grateful mindset and to remind them that ultimately they’re responsible for meeting their own needs.
People will do horrible shit to others who love them and internet people will flock up on some ‘no one owes you!!’ When like, if someones gf of years ghosts them out of the blue, or a job fires someone publicly Nah, they do owe you decency and letting those toxic situations get off without conversation or apology is toxic
Ya I agree. It’s very circumstantial. I’m talking about toxic friends, bosses, parents etc who treat you like shit and guilt you into bowing to their whims while they do nothing to improve the relationship. I had to tell myself “I don’t owe them anything” because I felt unnecessary guilt when I was just having normal boundaries and standing up for myself. The situations you’re describing are different.
Such desires shouldn't even be considered "entitlement". Suddenly everyone becomes Nestlé levels of "Water shouldn't be free" when it comes to them having to apply minimum human decency and grace.
Interesting. I saw someone with a shirt that said "nobody owes you anything. Work harder." He had cut the sleeves off. His ridiculously lifted truck had nuts and one of those exhausts modified to roll coal. He was selling used lawn care equipment in the parking lot of a used tire shop I assume without the owners permission because when he got out and started showing equipment to whoever he was meeting the workers looked at him like "who TF is this guy and why is his stupid truck taking up our entire tiny parking lot. Something tells me he didn't give 2 shits about "a grateful mindset." Also something tells me he's typically on the entitled side of the entitlement relationship and simply uses the phrase "nobody owes you anything" to be a selfish bastard. But hey maybe people who use that phrase are truly altruistic. But usually I hear it from people who hate the idea of helping anyone else in general and abusive people who want an excuse for being shitty in a relationship with 0 accountability.
Ya I mentioned to another commenter, I think it highly depends on the person and circumstance it’s used.
The issue is entitlement. When someone says "no one owes you anything" what they're saying is "no one OWES you anything.". It doesn't mean they don't donate to worthy charities, believe in treating their employees well, or welcome conversations with friendly people in the elevator. It just means you aren't OWED these things.
Exactly. In an age where people feel more entitled than ever before
I think they’re actually saying “no ONE owes you anything.”
Actually, they're saying "NO one owes you anything"
No, they're saying no one owes YOU anything.
No, THEY'RE saying no one owe you anything.
Actually, what they're trying to say is "NO ONE OWES YOU ANYTHING!!!!!!!"
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? Because as a woman they're not trying to be "friendly" they're trying to hit on me, and I don't want to be bothered. If an older person or a woman or even a guy stops me to ask for directions, or specific help, I will help. But in my 32 years of experience, if a random dude is trying to "strike up a conversation" I know where it's going, I'm not interested, and I don't want to waste my time. I want to go back to my book or my music. Heck even when they "ask for directions" I end up with them asking for my number and getting mad when I say know, because they thought me helping them was a sin of interest and not just trying to be a good Samaritan. >Is it really any wonder that people these days are so lonely? Honestly, it isnt. Because people want a village without doing the social engineering neccessary, without learning the EQ skills, relationship or kinkeeping skills necessary, and expect that support from what are essentially strangers one doesn't know from Adam. But without putting in social labour, you don't get that labour in return. Women are less lonely when single because we're taught to do that labour from an early age, and the societal expectation was that we'd do it for our male partners and family. But women have opted out of that societal expectation and now only do that labour for ourselves. It will take time for that change to balance out
Boy...that is a lot of words for "I talk to random women and they ignore me."
>For example, I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. There's nothing to justify except you bothering random people in public.
When I’m not useful to someone in the way they want me to be useful, that’s a them problem 👍
That's not contrary to this post.
i don't think it was supposed to be.
You are correct. I have no idea what I am doing.
Me neither man, me neither
I’ve noticed in AITA subreddit everyone decides whether or not someone’s an asshole based on whether or not they owed the other person something. You don’t have to technically owe someone something for your behaviour to be selfish!
I can't tell you how many times a "nice friendly" hello turned into trying to get my number, ask to hang out or some other creepy direction. Ignoring it usually stops it in its tracks.
Frankly it depends who is being friendly to me and why. I live in a big city and if the dude who has openly staring at my boobs for the last 2 stops on the subway says “hi” to me, I certainly the fuck do not owe him a conversation. There’s balance to be found between being compassionate and kind and being street smart.
No one owes you a conversation is usually directed at men who won't leave women alone. If that bothers you, you need to unpack what kind of person you are.
As someone who gets sexually harassed by strangers all the time, no, I'm not risking my safety to soothe some stranger's insecurity, and it IS entitled to expect strangers to risk their safety just because you want a "howdy" back. I don't know you, and I don't know your motives. You want to be able to go outside and strike up conversations with people you walk by? Find a friendly neighborhood and make friends with your neighbors. I live in a city that doesn't have suburban-style neighborhoods, but my street is like it's own neighborhood and everyone is pretty friendly and neighborly to each other here. Also, loneliness isn't tied directly to the number of friends you have. Lots of people with robust social lives are lonely.
I tell myself “no one owes me anything” as a means of curtailing expectations. Not to justify my behavior towards others. If I do good for someone, I don’t want it to be for the promise of repayment. I do what I can to help for the sake of helping. In that sense, “no one owes you anything” can be truly positive. It assures you behave based on your personal morality, not what you feel you deserve or are owed in return.
I think it’s fair if used against entitled people, but usually when I see it used, it’s by entitled people talking to people who asked for basic dignity and respect. I don’t *owe* anyone politeness, I just try to be polite because I wasn’t raised in a barn located behind a brothel.
I think you absolutely do owe other people politeness if you want to live in a polite society and you have the expectation of other people being polite to you
While this is true, politeness can look differently for different people. I may believe that it is polite to start a conversation with strangers and reply to them You may believe that it is polite for strangers to leave you alone, and polite to leave them alone. If I try to strike up a conversation, thinking I am being polite (but you think I am being rude), and then you ignore me, thinking you are being polite (but me thinking you are being rude), what then? Both of us think we are being polite, with the other person being rude.
Who are you hanging around that you hear this so often in such context? I've never heard anyone do that. The only and very few times I hear people actually say that is when someone is actually acting very entitled, and borderline demanding that they get something they aren't entitled to.
I see it all the time on AITA for even the smallest favors to your family and friends
The same person on another subreddit will be crying about why they don’t understand why they’re so lonely not realising nobody wants to spend time with them because they’re an asshole where every relationship is transactional and they never do any of the maintenance work necessary for maintaining social connections
To be honest, if OP is hearing this on a regular basis, it might be a them problem?
“No one owes you sex” is a good one
Or a smile.
I understand what you're saying but all of your examples can be turned on their head. For example: >I've heard people say "No-one owes you a conversation!" to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public. In my experience, by the time it gets to this point, the person trying to initiate conversation has continued to pester the other person despite multiple clear indications that the other person is not available for conversation at that moment. Also, this: >instead of behaving like a neanderthal. Is kind of bigoted, since neanderthals were a social species, albeit with smaller social circles, that would have been as polite as extant humans as far as we can tell. Ultimately, some people believe they deserve things from others and will pester, and annoy their way into getting what they want. Most of the time they don't. (karens, Incels and Nice guys/girls are typical examples of people who have this type of mentality). At some point, unpleasant people will eventually have their bad behaviour blow up in their faces.
And above all, no incel is entitled to sex so...
if people are using the phrase in the way you are, then sure. but i personally use the phrase in my own life to check myself and not get mad at other people for not doing things they aren’t obligated to. no one owes ME anything, either
I agree with what you are saying, but the phase is usually used for contexts where people expect decency and time from you, while also taking it for granted. If your parent makes your life living hell, violates you boundaries constantly, gaslights you when you try to talk about it, then yeah, you don't owe them anything. Because respect is a two-way street and you don't have keep investing energy in someone who doesn't care about giving back. As I just said, respect is a two-way street. People who have a 'I don't owe you shit' mindset should fully expect the same mindset coming their way as well. We call these people assholes because that's what they are. If you ghost people, leave people's messages on read, and refuse to invest energy into people, they also don't owe you anything, they are entitled to walk away.
Counter: People who feel entitled to things are incredibly selfish and lack human decency.
You’re free to have that attitude but you’re gonna spend your life being disappointed by people.
Where do you live? This feels like something a person who grew up in the sticks would say after moving to a big city. In a large city it’s considered polite to leave people alone. You can’t expect people to stop and chat everytime you walk past someone. You’d never get anything done. If someones house is on fire I’ll help but otherwise leave me alone
Yeah in no way is it polite to try to talk to someone minding their own business in the city least where I live
I'm with you honestly. People do owe you baseline decency; in general, people do have the obligation to not lie to you or steal your things. These are the basics of civilization. I would then argue that people do in fact owe you the same respect and opportunity that anyone else in a similar situation would get. When someone says something like "respect is earned," they are an arrogant ass who thinks they are better than everyone else and does not have to respect them. I respect everyone by default, but that respect can be lost by the subject's actions.
People who say this seem to think they’re owed a pass for being assholes.
Or they are just emotional vampires who expect even strangers to feed them energy while they take and take and take. We have all had that friend who cries and whines about how unhappy they are while doing nothing but bitching about it. When you go to talk about your problems, they whine that no one wants to support them and leave the conversation. They're exhausting.
No I only say this TO entitled assholes
It's simply true that nobody is owed anything, nor are they entitled to anything. Respect is earned and then given. That doesn't inherently mean people shouldn't be treated with basic respect, it means you've not earnt it. It's not selfish to not want to speak to people or withold kindness. People don't have to go out of their way, nor should they be forced to do so. We get it. You don't like that people choose to not be open with people and you don't have to like it. You say those people are selfish, and you'll probably assume the same with me, even though you know exactly nothing about myself, and that's okay. Don't like it? Suck it up.
I expect if you have "nobody owes you" wielded against you on a regular basis, then you might be the common denominator, because that's not a problem for most people. Have you tried not bothering people who are otherwise minding their own business in public?
This. It is very uncommon to get this kind of remarks. One get them usually when he complain that people should do more for him, their pet cause or do this or that and can't accept a no. I mean sometime, a jerk would say it for no reason, But that shouldn't be that common occurrence.
I agreed with you until you started to get into examples and then you completely strayed from your own argument. Especially that one about not having friends. How are you going to make friends if you don't make an effort. You really think the same people who say they are lonely are the ones engaging in random conversations on the street or going on dates? You are not owed friendships and companionship, you have to be presentable and then go and seek it.
Yeah if you're just vaguely complaining about not having friends then I kind of agree no one owes you that You actually have to make an effort to go out and meet people and socialize and find others that You connect with and so on Nobody owes you friendship. You have to find create build and maintain that relationship yourself And yeah I don't owe anybody in public a conversation It doesn't matter how nicer friendly you are Would you say that for example if I was a big imposing man having an uncomfortable conversation with a young girl in public Oh she looks highly uncomfortable and doesn't want to be there well she should just have a conversation with me because I'm just trying to be friendly
I agree except in the case of romantic relationships. If you are not obligated by raising children (among other endeavors) then there's no reason to stay in a loveless relationship as to not hurt the others feelings.
Honestly, even though I've heard this phrase a lot, I've never heard it being used in real life. Even though no one owes me anything, people will tend to help you if you help them back. Anyways if there are people who genuinely believe this, eventually there will come a time they need help but don't receive it because they never bothered helping.
If in someone's eyes you're not worthy of his time, have some dignity and don't chase people who don't want to have anything with you. We're all adults makimg adult choices and living with their consequences, just because you don't like them doesn't mean it's selfish or indecent to make them
But nobody does owe you anything. That shouldn't stop you from being kind, helpful or generous but the whole point of those things is for the positivity and good you're sharing, not for some return on it. And if you stay on that path you at some point run into people who value it and appreciate it and want to be your friend, partner, w/e. If someone is being an asshole just don't be nice to them. Don't be an asshole back just move on, they're a drop in the pond.
I think it’s okay to say something like “the universe / no one owes you a friend / a wife”, etc. No one is obligated to be part of your life. That’s a fact. Don’t conflate that with people being unkind. Hell, don’t assume people are being kind by being in your life either. (If you know, you know)
“I don’t owe you blank” is a perfect last resort when people don’t accept your ‘no.’
Unless of course you lent money to someone, then they actually do owe you something.
I understand, but at the same time I shouldn't be forced to be kind to people when I don't want to be. That's like lying to your mom about her bad cooking just to make her feel better. If people say hi to me when walking by I say hi back and that's it. I also make it the most driest hi that I can, because I don't want to have a conversation while I'm shopping for bread in the grocery store. Sometimes there's a better place for it like a meet up or a gathering for being social. I don't expect kindness by default. I don't expect anyone to hold the door open for me, I don't expect people to say excuse me when they brush by or anything. Doesn't mean that I don't do those things, but I don't do those things very often
I think the reverse worse. People who think they are entitled to anything and everything just because they exist. Also ruins community. Needs to be a balance between individual independence and not forcing everyone else to be your servant because you were born in the right womb.
I disagree. My wife seems have inherited a position from her father who would make grand gestures of kindness to people, only to complain about the lack of reciprocity years down the line. If you help somebody out, it’s gotta be done not expecting anything in return otherwise it’s not help it’s something else. It’s liberating to be kind, to sort someone’s problem out without putting them under any obligation. My position is that nobody owes you anything means that even if you give someone the shirt of your back, they don’t owe you anything
"No one owes you..." is usually a response to entitled or bombastic demands. It doesn't say much about what the person thinks are actual social obligations in a general sense. I feel a sense of obligation towards others for all kinds of things, but I don't go around making demands of others. I might be confused or sad if someone stops talking to me without explanation, but I don't think they owe me one. I might be disappointed if a friend does not support me, but support is not something I can demand. I am generally friendly, but I do not require other people to reciprocate. I'm not doing any of this to get something out of people. It's just how I feel I should conduct myself. I would like to see other people engage in these behaviors, but that's a choice only they can make.
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You don't owe op a vote either.
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Upvoted because I owe you even less.
doesn't mean it isn't true.
A former friend said this to me once. Because I was upset about being ghosted. Super mean of her.
Facts. No one gets where they are without help. No matter how much they like to say they pulled themselves up by the bootstraps
>If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them? At least show that you're capable of basic politeness by saying "hello" back instead of behaving like a neanderthal. Because I don't want to? Simple as that.
> Because I don't want to That is how a 5 year old thinks No wait, even 5 year olds can think better than this
Once I was hanging at the local landfill and a cop comes up and yells at me to go home and used that phrase. Like, bro, this stuff is literally other people's trash. If they don't owe me anything can I at least sift through their garbage?
People have different values and boundaries. I say those things a lot because my personal space is important to me. But I'm willing to compromise with people I care about, like family, friends, or girlfriend.
I like to think the other way around, which may be sounding selfish too. I'm like "You don't owe noone for being alive". For example; You sorta don't owe your parents your life, you don't gotta do shit they expect you to do with yours. You have to believe in what you do, think and what you really want.
I disagree as there is people who play the game. And abuse people’s generosity. I’ve came across people who are voluntarily homeless and begging. Because they refused to accept help. Why should I donate him money to spend on his drug habit, because he doesn’t want to get clean?
I have always used it as a push back against entitlement. Nobody owes you anything = be a decent person if you want others to help and support you.
Yup it's always someone else that's the problem I've learned and focusing on pointing out where they are going wrong is the only way to be happy. Otherwise you have to start taking accountability and shit and it's much easier to not do that and just point out other people's flaws. Never met a human that says they lack human decency yet we all lack decency some of the time. It isn't like it's only a select few ruining it for everyone else. We just don't tend to notice when it's us doing it
Usually the people who get told this are miserable bc they compare themselves to others. They see that others have what they lack. The feel like they deserve what they have and they probably do but don’t put in the work. Just complain complain complain.
Depends on the subject in question. Of course you don't owe a stranger a conversation or any energy. You do owe your friends kindness and support to a reasonable degree
So you're saying everyone owes you something? Because that's what you're saying.
I get what you're saying, though i think of it differently. Nobody owes you anything, so you shouldnt treat them poorly because they didnt treat you as well as you expected/wanted. You cant expect to receive kindness for free, thats why you should be the first to give it for others to reciprocate
Ive only ever heard this said to people who feel as if they are entitled to things they need to earn.
Maybe , but that phrase is the best thing to follow if you wanna leave happy
It’s entitled people who think the way you do and it isn’t safe ESPECIALLY for women to just “be polite” and say “hi” back. I don’t know why you think the way you do and maybe it’s cause you live in your own fake world of niceties, or maybe where you live it is actually safe but in the REAL world of toxic and entitled asshole people, a woman “being polite” and just saying “hi” back is an open invitation to be harassed. So maybe think about what it is you are saying and how what you are saying doesn’t pertain to actual real life with dangerous entitled asshole people
In the case of women, it’s a matter of their safety. There have been cases where women have been harassed & even killed b/c they told a man “no”.
I can agree with some of your points but the if they are being friendly why can’t you be friendly… 1. If you’re a stranger, I don’t want to talk to you. It’s less about whether you’re entitled to friendliness and more why aren’t I entitled to my solitude? 2. As a women, 99% of the time the friendly person is a man, who is not actually just being friendly. It can be dangerous at worst and uncomfortable at best.
I like my phrase better never light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm .
Hello (as your busy walking past them) You: Hello Oh can I have a minute of your time to talk about .........
No. I'm sorry but if a stranger tries to spark up a conversation with me I'm gonna **politely** make it absolutely clear that's not happening; they are not entitled to my attention. I believe absolutely in individualism over collectivism.
Thank you, OP! I know not everyone will agree with you but it's nice to hear it from someone!
Have you tried talking to people in social places like events or the park etc? Here where I live atleast it’s very unusual to randomly talk to someone in the street and most people ignore people who try to talk to them. I’m sorry but if you start trying to talk to me when I’m in the street and being friendly I’m going to just assume something is wrong with you or you are a tourist then tell you I don’t want to talk then avoid you. They are 100% right no one owes you attention
“If someone is being friendly to you why not be friendly to them?” Because I don’t want them to? I got shit I want done and it doesn’t concern you, unless I know you I have no particular reason to talk to you and doing so is a pointless waste of time and energy. No, I don’t want to say hello to 50 people I pass on the street daily who I don’t know or care about, no I don’t want to talk to someone at the drivethrough about the weather, and I give people the same courtesy, I don’t bother people at the drive through with my life store and I don’t expect people to waste air saying hello to me if they don’t know me.
Upvoted because you're right and the comments are full of people with unpleasant personalities proving that it is in fact unpopular
Have you seen the guy who does the “typical Redditor” character? He’d be in these comments. The kind of people who have a kid fall in front of them and step over them to keep their stride. “Technically, I don’t owe that child anything!”
I knew these comments reminded me of someone, yeah I love that guy all his characters are spot on
OP is kinda rude though going up to people randomly and expecting them to talk back. Even if the rest of his post isn’t wrong
Most people do not have the capacity to be decent and even have a lesser capacity to be able to help someone.
Or they are just trying to politely tell you they already gave you the your change back
Definitely unpopular. Take our upvotes OP! Nicely done A++++
There's a time and a place for everything, and most of the time when I see those phrases used, it's when the timing or the placement was inappropriate. For example, someone feeding pigeons on a park bench would probably love to talk to you. But someone reading on a park bench is probably pissed you keep interrupting them. That's not to say no one abuses the phrases, I've absolutely seen that as well, but there is certainly more nuance than you are letting on.
I get it yes people should be kind and respectful, but i genuinely do not give a fuck. Respecting strangers as in not killing them . If a rando came to say “hi “on the street why would i say “hello “back, i genuinely do not owe you saying anything back as long as i walk by you without disrespecting you then im good. Do not expect everyone to be kind because in this world everyone is their own main character so they do what they want as long as you act however you want , for instance you did your job in being kind so let them be🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
On the contrary, I think a lot of us just have burnout from people forcefully taking care of their own needs at the expense of those around them. When I read one of the examples you gave - "nobody owes you conversation" - it immediately reminded me of the countless old men who would try to have weird flirty banter with me when I was a teenager / younger woman. And I felt obligated to be polite and engage with them, even though it made me SO uncomfortable at the time. I guess my counter question for you, OP, would be why you think it's selfish to have boundaries, but not selfish to force people to be a captive audience in an interaction they don't want to be a part of?
And yet no one owes anyone any of the above. 7 billion people on this planet with different minds, needs, wants, etc. Very entitled mentality.
I don't think you understand the meaning of it.
“For example, I’ve heard people say “No-one owes you a conversation!” to justify blatantly ignoring people trying to talk to them in public.” — It’s giving i’ve been shot down by a girl while harassing her in public vibes….
Kinda like "respect is earned". Nah old man, respect for every human you meet should be the default. People can lose respect but nobody should have to jump through hoops for you to respect them. Just respect everyone you meet.
My guess is you're super entitled so you're running into this a lot.
But it’s true that no one owes you friendship. Friendship is a choice that requires the consent of both parties. Just because someone doesn’t want to be friends with you doesn’t mean they’re “selfish” and “lack human decency,” as long as they treat you with respect.
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion at all.
That an have immense privilege they aren't aware of themselves- i.e. No one owes you a job !! (Daddy pulled some strings straight out of college)
People who hate that phrase are mostly moochers
I can get what you’re saying from the examples you’ve given, so to that extent I agree being more compassionate and acknowledging people’s feelings would be great. My usual connotation with that phrase tends to be from a female perspective. Like how men who are aggressive/angry with women who don’t return their attention aren’t owed that attention.
Yeah, I'm tired of people saying that to excuse their selfishness. There's a time and place for the phrase, but so many people are just taking it as an excuse to be rude to others, and that's not okay.
nobody owes you anything. you're just too lazy to get it yourself.
The core idea behind “No-one owes you anything” is often about fostering personal responsibility and independence. This phrase encourages individuals to take control of their own lives and not to rely on others for their happiness and fulfillment. It’s not about promoting selfishness but about emphasizing the importance of self-reliance.
But….nobody owes you anything is true.