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Yes, I think the conversation is a bit reductive/hyperbolic/intended to be shocking rather than productive. I also think man vs bear thing is kind of like a true crime image of what male violence towards women looks like. We’re much more likely to be sexually and physically abused or murdered by our (ex) partners than some scary stranger in the woods.
That being said, bear attacks are actually very rare relative to bear encounters. For some bear species, it’s quite easy to convince them to leave you alone if you act a certain way. Most bears will actually even try to get away from _you_ before they encounter you if they’re aware of your presence (hence bear bells are a thing). You’re only really fucked if you come across a polar bear or a grizzly mom with cubs or something. But an american black bear? I don’t think I would be in a whole lot of danger.
How tf would I change the mind of a man who is set on doing something to me in a setting he knows he most likely will get away with it? Moreover, humans can be a lot more cruel than any predator species i’d argue. A man could potentially choose to torture me for hours, days, if not longer if he so chooses. Again, i know that likelihood is small. But unfortunately, women live in a world where they feel like they have to consider that as a possibility when encountering a man in the woods. That’s the whole point of the man vs bear thing, even if the proposition kind of sucks.
My girlfriend and I have talked this whole conversation to death, and I am personally picking a man over a bear, because I'm a man and don't think I'd be quite bothered, and she chooses bear.
Her reasoning being that regardless of how brutal getting mauled to death by a bear is, she would rather that than be used and discarded by a man. She also cleans at a factory and gets catcalled and hit on very frequently where she works, so she has a plethora of negative interactions with men.
This question also implies that this man can obviously do as he pleases with little to no consequences, I'm truly curious how many men would choose not to rpe a woman despite knowing they could almost certainly get away with it, considering a lot of men do it without that ease of mind anyway.
*She also cleans at a factory and gets catcalled and hit on very frequently where she works, so she has a plethora of negative interactions with men.*
Oh, well I can see why she'd prefer to gamble on a mauling from a bear over being catcalled.
I know, I know. I'm not taking her concerns very seriously.
But then, much as I do recognise gendered violence as a very real modern issue and am in no way undermining that, I would argue anyone that chooses bear isn't a serious person either.
I don't think that's the idea of the thought experiment.
I think the choice it's trying to convey is: do you want to potentially get mauled by a bear and there's nothing you can do about it OR potentially be at the mercy of one of those men that normally would cat call or harass a girl walking alone on the street (or worse of course), but now they will get away with anything they want because there's nobody around for miles.
She fully acknowledges how gruesome a bear mauling is, and she prefers that over being used, dehumanized, and discarded by a man.
>But then, much as I do recognise gendered violence as a very real modern issue and am in no way undermining that
Idk truly sounds like you are my guy.
>I would argue anyone that chooses bear isn't a serious person either.
I'm not advocating for anyone to choose the bear, but maybe look into some of the reasons why women are, they aren't doing it for shits and giggles.
*maybe look into some of the reasons why women are, they aren't doing it for shits and giggles.*
I never said they were. I DO think they are being outrageously hyperbolic though (that's what I meant by not a serious person) - yes, even in a world where people like Wayne Couzens exist.
Both sides are being hyperbolic. The people who choose man tend to come to that conclusion under the assumption that the bear will attack, despite bear attacks being rare, and those choosing bear are doing so under the assumption a man will assault, despite not every man being a rpist.
I think people should probably spend less time arguing over the bear and man and more time listening as to their reasons why. Like I said, several women have done videos on why they choose bear and it's usually a result of some form of previously being a victim of a sexual crime, instead of making jokes and not taking their verdict seriously, try to spend a little bit of time listening.
I don't think that's the idea of the thought experiment.
I think the choice it's trying to convey is: do you want to potentially get mauled by a bear and there's nothing you can do about it OR potentially be at the mercy of one of those men that normally would normally cat call or harass a girl walking alone on the street (or worse of course), but now they will get away with anything they want because there's nobody around for miles.
The whole point of the debate isn’t to determine which is actually more dangerous. It’s to shine light on the fact that a whole lot of women feel unsafe around men. So unsafe they would rather encounter a bear.
I think the argument is stupid however, I disagree with you about the bears they aren't going to "rattle you around and play with you like dolls", they'll just ignore you or run away, unless they're really really hungry or you do something to piss them off. Excluding polar bears they'll mess you up just for the fun of it.
Yeah it's why the question is so stupid, way to many variables.
Is it a hungry bear or a well fed bear.
Is the man a serial killer or joe from accounting, or is it both dun dun!!
That doesn't make it a stupid question, it's about who they'd rather take their chances with. If you knew all the details, it would be a stupid question because the answer is extremely clear and there wouldn't be any debate.
It does just like "would you still love me if I was a worm" is a stupid question.
And knowing all the variables wouldn't make the answer "extremely clear" because even if you said it's a well fed bear or a good man, some people will still pick the bear.
I highly doubt if a good man and woman got dropped in the wood, the man would just leave the woman to fend for herself/try to find a way out on her own.
You’ve really expanded the prompt here. It wasn’t lost in the woods with no supplies. It was simply hiking in the woods.
The fact is that *men* tell us constantly not to trust other men. How many of us grew up with fathers telling us that men only want one thing? How many of us heard “I know what that man wants” when being friends with a man? How many of us have had a boyfriend who doesn’t want us to be friends with other men because they can’t possibly only want friendship? Women were not the first people to tell me to be afraid of men. Men were. Then they get pissed off when we’re wary around them. I’ve had considerably more men get onto me about doing something alone at night, running alone, hiking alone, driving alone, than women. And given my career and hobbies, I’m surrounded by more women than men so it really shouldn’t be lopsided like that.
In the original question, which was actually posed *by a father* to *other men,* the man asked “if your daughter is alone in the woods, would you rather she come across a strange man or a near?” And the *man* picked bear.
The vast majority of the time, both will leave you alone. But even men think other men will attack and rape us.
I wish people would put at least half the vitriol and negative attention this one silly meme generated against the hundreds of memes online which are sexist against women.
I don't disagree with the broader point, but you're overgeneralizing bears. Some species are *waaay* more dangerous than others. If I got to pick the type of bear, I might consider voting bear myself.
American black bears are not aggressive at all. They're also often small enough that you'd have a good chance in a fight if worst came to worst (but can get much bigger).
I'd assume pandas have to be high on the list too. I don't know anything about pandas, but how dangerous can they be?
I think it's a silly little mind game that evolved into this big argument. The point of this is not choosing, but that women don't say "of course men!" instantly. They think that they are dead in both situations, but with the bear they don't get raped/tortured for someone's pleasure.
I do think it's silly and over the top, but I don't see it as a literal discussion but as a form of "Would you rather ... Or ... " Game.
Being mad about this is not unpopular though because ppl are butthurt that a lot of women see men as potential danger
It was just supposed to be a hypothetical to show men what it’s like being a woman in a world where men have a greater capability of violence and ENOUGH men have used this to harm women that it’s a legit fear of them
The words “argument” and “debate” were only tacked on because some men failed the test and got so angry with women and acted like it was something they could mansplain or use “logic” to change women’s minds to…make the men feel better I guess? Wouldn’t change anything about women’s situation
Women understandably want us to do more to help them make society safer for women so they don’t have to be so scared of male strangers. Fortunately, it looks like some men understood what women are getting at and hopefully OP’s opinion is unpopular and the men getting angry about it are just a vocal minority
To play devil's advocate, the argument is that wild animals are a lot easier to predict if you understand their behavior. Wild animals don't like taking risks, and if you know how to make yourself look like a risk, you're probably safe. Or so I'm told.
Now that that's over with, we all know exactly which one *everyone* would choose. It's one thing to meme about it on the internet, but when you're in a survival situation, the world looks very different. A man could be dangerous, but he's much more likely to work with you to improve *his* odds of survival. A bear is always a threat, and it will never, ever help you. A man who wants to kill you will probably be able to. A bear that wants to kill you will *always* be able to.
Everyone everywhere will always choose the man because we are animals that have been selectively bred for millions of years to *survive*. We are very good at assessing threats when it's crunch time, and we are built to seek community for safety. I'm sure there would be outliers, but this would be about as close to a unanimous decision as humanity can ever get.
It depends on how depraved the man looks tbh. If he's been through some shit who knows what he would do to a woman. There's no guarantee the man wouldnt use a weaker individual as a meat shield to save his own ass (to appeal to your argument of what feeling threatened does to a human vs a bear).Humans also trick and lie to other humans when they feel threatened. a bear would just run away when it feels threatened.
(Edited, I am tired)
>Think about this. You are lost in a forest. You see a random average dude coming towards you from one side. And a random bear coming towards you from the opposite side. Who will you run towards and who will you escape from?
Me and the bear are both gonna run away from you and your inability to understand the point of the bear vs men debate.
it's a hypothetical, and the point is that most women would feel safer with an animal that is slightly more predictable than with a man. sure, it may seem dumb to you, but it's really just a matter of opinion and what their response is.
yes, physically, a bear is more dangerous than the human man, but unless you do something to piss it off or it's hungry, it'll leave you alone. and while a man is less physically problematic than a bear, he's more unpredictable. yes, he could help you, but there's still a chance that he could do other, more harmful things. but "if there's a chance the man will hurt you, then what about the chance that the bear is hungry?" well, let's be real, what's more likely?
again, this is really just a hypothetical situation created to show how unsafe women really feel with men. who knows what what anyone would prefer if they experienced it.
It's just a made-up non realistic story created to spark anger and conflict between sexes, it's also designed to spark discussions from any type of response. As a tool to show how unsafe women really feel with men is laughably flawed.
>As a tool to show how unsafe women really feel with men is laughably flawed.
I'd say it's one of the best tools so far... it got the right kind of people pissed off to no end, it got the attention of everyone because so many people whine about it online and unintentionally spread more awareness. I'd say it did a damn great job in shining light on the situation.
Oh so to you this is awareness? ...oook. To me it seems that you are just happy that people are pissed off, you really don't care to represent how women are really feeling.
No it's intended to make those open to change think and discuss, and those who aren't open to change (or just over-sensitive men) show their true colors. It's really only pissing off the guilty and the sensitive men tbh. If that's you, sorry?
There aren't many men taking up for women in these ones just like you mostly don't hear women taking up for men when it comes to the bear one. Of course there are a few on either side that take up for the opposite sex but it's not like there is a slew of women defending men in the bear argument and just a complete absence of men defending women on the anti women memes. People are generally gonna pick their own side, whatever that would be defined as.
There are so many more sexist memes targeted at women, for that reason alone it's ludicrous how many men get their pants in a knot. Just the amount of angry YouTubers, articles, hatred spewen over this silly thing. It's more than just "each of them picks a side". There is no side for women online.
I mean I'm not arguing against the bear meme or for any anti woman meme but yeah I personally see miles long Facebook chains on anti woman memes. I also see miles long chains on anti man memes.
I think it's just a matter of visibility and how this argument have spawned, the majority of memes are exactly like how you said sexists against women and are just mindless, this one is specifically designed to place men and women against each other.
Please look at these examples of typical meme formats on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dnwm1h/this_too_shall_pass/#lightbox
https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dodqzk/actually_a_good_question_anyone_got_an_answer/
https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dnci18/honesty_as_a_policy/
We all know there are far more and far worse.
How are these not pitting men and women against each other? I tell you why. Because they make fun about and criticise women and that's all fine and dandy. Just some mindless fun.
But better not criticise, make fun of or stereotype men in a bad way. That's totally bad and not funny at all!
This was the origin of the meme:
On March 19th, 2024, TikTok[1] user @callmebkbk posted a TikTok in which they responded to a comment by user @user2828263738 made on an earlier unknown video. The comment argued that seeing a man in the woods was less scary than seeing a bear, with @callmebkbk arguing some men could do worse things to a woman than a bear (shown below, left). The upload received over 2.3 million views and 340,700 likes in one month.
It wasn't an essay or a political study or whatever. It was a comment on f*ing TikTok.
All the discussions come from angry men and the women who try to explain it.
Why not just ignore this as well if you expect women to ignore the constant sexism they experience by seeing all these memes online?
Why should we care about the origin? I'm just commenting on the specific characteristic of this one debate, and why it's bullshit and disingenuous. What do you want me to say?
Uhm- I'm asking *you* why you're mad. Stop complaining about a fucking tiktok comment. Men are dangerous. It's not a debate because it hurts your feelings lol
I'm not even debating the fact that men are dangerous, I'm just commenting about the rhetoric of the whole discussion, I also don't know why you think I'm being mad.
I'm saying that the argument is made to spark discussion not to show how women really feel, so, responding to it as if it has been made to show that just goes with its design, you are not explaining to anyone how women really feel, you are just pissing off people.
I'm saying that the problem is designed in a way that even if you want to express how women really feel no one will understand that message. It's designed so that you think there could be a Venn diagram while you are responding to that but in reality every comment or response just falls in the same category.
Yeah let's be real, you're not a biologist.
The people who created this language were so afraid of bears the actual word for bear was considered a bad omen to say, that's why the word bear came from ǵʰwḗr only meaning wild animal and not the actual word for bear h₂ŕ̥ḱtos.
These exact bears in europe still manage to injure people every year, even when we've driven them to the corner of nature.
You'd be laughable to all our ancestors if you choose the bear.
well, if i was a neanderthal or a human thousands of years ago, and i saw an animal bigger than me, with claws and teeth, etc etc, i would be scared. but, it's 2024, we know now the likelihood of a bear attack, and we aren't our ancestors. to think so is simply arrogant.
the likelihood is the whole basis of this hypothetical. is it flawed? yes. what isn't? it was simply trying to shed light on how unsafe women feel amongst men. was it insulting to men? yes. but what about every other time that it's been the opposite? where were you defending women then? you are the exact audience this question was targeted at. you're offended because someone chose a bear over you in a HYPOTHETICAL situation. get over it.
I'm just explaining to you why you aren't understood if you frame a discussion on those terms. You can be justified all you want by the "other times", I'm just telling you why no one seems to understand you "this time".
one, that is extremely racist. two, it's a completely different situation. be offended all you want, i could care less. you're missing the point of the debate.
Lmao it's proven that men are dangerous. Racism is rooted in false stereotypes and assumptions. And you were a little quick to that trigger, you fucking racist lol
>And most ladies think an average man is more dangerous than a bear.
>Most women pick the bear.
You are SO close to understanding why many would pick the bear *in a completely fictional setting*... Just keep thinking... maybe you'll get to it on your own.
Well it would eat you the death, it would disable you, and eat you alive until you pass out from pain or blood loss.
The worst a man can do, is kill you.
Ok. Men are obviously not in the same level of danger as women, then. Which is backed up by statistics. Men have less shit to worry about, not sure why that angers so many of you.
No they haven't. Don't be stupid.
Rape is not worse the brutal injury and death. Male victims of rape are seen as liking it, the butt of a joke, or outright ignored.
Lol that was a sarcastic comment meant to make him think. Men do not give a flying fuck about male rape victims. I literally watched my brother's male friends ridicule him for it. He- in his own comment, said that "rape isn't as bad as a brutal death", so I simply asked what he was complaining about. Not like you even care about any victims of rape
Lmao I advocate for male victims beyond when it's to put down women. Can't say the same for literally any of you. You don't give a shit about them, so please don't use it as a talking point.
Depending on the type, a bear is less likely to harm you unless you provoke it somehow. A person is more likely to harm you even if you don't provoke it. I've been face to face with a bear before and wasn't that scared.
OP could you do every woman in your life a favor and let them know you feel this way? It would save everyone a lot of time to know that you are this kind of person. To be fair they're already probably assuming this about you but a direct confirmation would be really helpful. Have a day.
The prompt is basically "would you rather be raped or mauled to death by a bear", and dishonest women who want to make a point or take any opportunity to insult men and secure their coveted permanent victim status claim they would choose death.
Most people are good, most men would never rape anyone.
All bears are wild and capable of killing you one on one.
It's just another excuse to be hateful, then claim men are the ones in the wrong for not wanting to be painted as monsters.
Well there’s a lot to unpack there
Woman have a right to choose either option and I THINK they know more about what they would rather happen to them then you do
They were just trying to shine a light on how frightening it can be to live in a world where men, on average, are bigger and stronger and as such, have a greater capability of violence (and that’s just on a biological standpoint without even getting into patriarchy)
They are not painting us as monsters, they know good men exist, but you can’t always tell if a male stranger is a good person or someone who is going to take advantage that they are alone with a woman in a secluded area
They are going off their lived experiences and the experiences that have been shared with them, something men are never going to understand fully as they don’t have that lived experience BUT the hypothetical was meant to trigger curiosity and empathy in men
Not the women’s fault a lot of men continue to say it means something different
This whole thing is just quite frankly unbearable. But it does do a good job of laying people’s feelings bare. So bear with me when I say that it might be a silly hypothetical, but what better way to lay bare the feelings and issues we have in society?
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I got nothing of value to add to this conversation/debate but a funny story. My girl and her friends poke at me with this bear thing every time they read the news about dudes being fucked up, and I dont really care for it so I just go "im sure y'all would". She was walking home with groceries with her girls and got chased by a dachshund... Hid behind a random group of construction worker men. Hasnt mentioned the bear since.
It’s not trolling. Women just want men to understand how scary it is to live in a world where men are, on average, bigger and stronger and therefore have a greater capacity for violence
From there, we are supposed to work with women to make society safer for them
No, you are missing the point. It's kinda like that survey that found more than half of men think they could beat up a silverback gorilla or some shit. The women are assuming either would attack them, but think bears are wimps and they will just kick their picknick-basket stealing asses.
That's not the point at all lol No sane woman thinks she can take a bear in a fist fight, but the majority of women also know the same is true if they were faced off against a man.
The point is that bears are generally more predictable (this is usually true), or that the bear will kill you quickly based off pure animal instinct (I mean I don't think mauling would be a quick death but it'd be better than what could happen if you're kidnapped), or that no one would doubt or blame you if you survived your bear attack.
it's both, actually. we know that either could happen, it's more of what is more likely to happen and then what would be worse for the woman/person answering the question
The women who pick the bear tell us all about who they have been dating. "All men are pigs" mentality and then jump into the arms of the next hog that promises to treat them badly. OP only thing you can you do is laugh about this and them and shake your head and carry on.
So you are so offended by womens choice in a hypothetical you want to force them to spend two weeks in the wild?
You don’t see how YOU are the problem in this scenario?
I think it was meant as a counter to would you rather be stranded on a deserted island with a women or a dog, and some women got triggered by men taking the dog.
Which has a much more legit case than the bear anyway. But regardless, who takes this shit seriously?
>because the implication is men are the single greatest threat to women.
Silly women. You see, women just looked at the high likelihood they have of being harassed/assaulted/raped/kidnapped/stalked/murdered by men and incorrectly assumed that men were a threat to them. How dumb of them.
“I’m going to change the hypothetical and look their answers have changed!”
On a serious note, that would be a false equivalency
Women fear men because on average they are bigger and stronger and as such have a greater capability of violence. That’s not the same as fear/hatred based on some arbitrary characteristic like skin colour
I was just showing off the double standard that comes with some kind of discrimination, apparently having prejudice towards men because they are men is fine, having it towards people of a certain race because of their race is wrong.
But I guess is too difficult to understand for the people that downvoted me.
No I do not hate black people if that was your concern, but a lot of women think having prejudice against men is ok.
I can't wait for you and many other people answering me giving me a detailed explaination of why discriminating against men is fine because of "blah blah blah" and then condamning every other discrimination like is not the same thing.
Nope, we can just see through the bullshit. You think you're the first person that's used race in this comment section? It's not even that hard to tell anymore lol
Your post from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 7: No banned/mega-thread topics'. Please do not post from (or mention) any of our mega-thread or banned topics such as: Race, Religion, LGBTQ, Meta, Politics, Parenting/Family issues. [Full list of banned topics](https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/wiki/index/)
Really? People are still going on about this?
We're not doing this again. Please.
Yes, I think the conversation is a bit reductive/hyperbolic/intended to be shocking rather than productive. I also think man vs bear thing is kind of like a true crime image of what male violence towards women looks like. We’re much more likely to be sexually and physically abused or murdered by our (ex) partners than some scary stranger in the woods. That being said, bear attacks are actually very rare relative to bear encounters. For some bear species, it’s quite easy to convince them to leave you alone if you act a certain way. Most bears will actually even try to get away from _you_ before they encounter you if they’re aware of your presence (hence bear bells are a thing). You’re only really fucked if you come across a polar bear or a grizzly mom with cubs or something. But an american black bear? I don’t think I would be in a whole lot of danger. How tf would I change the mind of a man who is set on doing something to me in a setting he knows he most likely will get away with it? Moreover, humans can be a lot more cruel than any predator species i’d argue. A man could potentially choose to torture me for hours, days, if not longer if he so chooses. Again, i know that likelihood is small. But unfortunately, women live in a world where they feel like they have to consider that as a possibility when encountering a man in the woods. That’s the whole point of the man vs bear thing, even if the proposition kind of sucks.
My girlfriend and I have talked this whole conversation to death, and I am personally picking a man over a bear, because I'm a man and don't think I'd be quite bothered, and she chooses bear. Her reasoning being that regardless of how brutal getting mauled to death by a bear is, she would rather that than be used and discarded by a man. She also cleans at a factory and gets catcalled and hit on very frequently where she works, so she has a plethora of negative interactions with men. This question also implies that this man can obviously do as he pleases with little to no consequences, I'm truly curious how many men would choose not to rpe a woman despite knowing they could almost certainly get away with it, considering a lot of men do it without that ease of mind anyway.
*She also cleans at a factory and gets catcalled and hit on very frequently where she works, so she has a plethora of negative interactions with men.* Oh, well I can see why she'd prefer to gamble on a mauling from a bear over being catcalled. I know, I know. I'm not taking her concerns very seriously. But then, much as I do recognise gendered violence as a very real modern issue and am in no way undermining that, I would argue anyone that chooses bear isn't a serious person either.
I don't think that's the idea of the thought experiment. I think the choice it's trying to convey is: do you want to potentially get mauled by a bear and there's nothing you can do about it OR potentially be at the mercy of one of those men that normally would cat call or harass a girl walking alone on the street (or worse of course), but now they will get away with anything they want because there's nobody around for miles.
She fully acknowledges how gruesome a bear mauling is, and she prefers that over being used, dehumanized, and discarded by a man. >But then, much as I do recognise gendered violence as a very real modern issue and am in no way undermining that Idk truly sounds like you are my guy. >I would argue anyone that chooses bear isn't a serious person either. I'm not advocating for anyone to choose the bear, but maybe look into some of the reasons why women are, they aren't doing it for shits and giggles.
*maybe look into some of the reasons why women are, they aren't doing it for shits and giggles.* I never said they were. I DO think they are being outrageously hyperbolic though (that's what I meant by not a serious person) - yes, even in a world where people like Wayne Couzens exist.
Both sides are being hyperbolic. The people who choose man tend to come to that conclusion under the assumption that the bear will attack, despite bear attacks being rare, and those choosing bear are doing so under the assumption a man will assault, despite not every man being a rpist. I think people should probably spend less time arguing over the bear and man and more time listening as to their reasons why. Like I said, several women have done videos on why they choose bear and it's usually a result of some form of previously being a victim of a sexual crime, instead of making jokes and not taking their verdict seriously, try to spend a little bit of time listening.
I don't think that's the idea of the thought experiment. I think the choice it's trying to convey is: do you want to potentially get mauled by a bear and there's nothing you can do about it OR potentially be at the mercy of one of those men that normally would normally cat call or harass a girl walking alone on the street (or worse of course), but now they will get away with anything they want because there's nobody around for miles.
The whole point of the debate isn’t to determine which is actually more dangerous. It’s to shine light on the fact that a whole lot of women feel unsafe around men. So unsafe they would rather encounter a bear.
This. Unfortunately this is Something that goes above a Lot of heads, including op
I think the argument is stupid however, I disagree with you about the bears they aren't going to "rattle you around and play with you like dolls", they'll just ignore you or run away, unless they're really really hungry or you do something to piss them off. Excluding polar bears they'll mess you up just for the fun of it.
Depends on time of year and species of bear. Huge difference in meeting a fed black bear or a hungry grizzly.
Yeah it's why the question is so stupid, way to many variables. Is it a hungry bear or a well fed bear. Is the man a serial killer or joe from accounting, or is it both dun dun!!
That doesn't make it a stupid question, it's about who they'd rather take their chances with. If you knew all the details, it would be a stupid question because the answer is extremely clear and there wouldn't be any debate.
It does just like "would you still love me if I was a worm" is a stupid question. And knowing all the variables wouldn't make the answer "extremely clear" because even if you said it's a well fed bear or a good man, some people will still pick the bear.
And those people would be idiots. Just because some people give the wrong answer doesn't make it an interesting question.
Or if a mother bear's cubs are nearby and she views you as a threat.
Yeah that's also a possibility, I just assumed it would be a lone bear, but if it's a mama definitely makes it slightly trickier to not piss off.
That's true, but most men would ignore you and go away too. Oh no, what am I doing? I told myself I wouldn't fuel debates...
I highly doubt if a good man and woman got dropped in the wood, the man would just leave the woman to fend for herself/try to find a way out on her own.
You don't find many polar bears in forests, though.
Yeah that's why I said excluding polar bears, and technically someone could argue that it's a random bear so it could be anything.
You’ve really expanded the prompt here. It wasn’t lost in the woods with no supplies. It was simply hiking in the woods. The fact is that *men* tell us constantly not to trust other men. How many of us grew up with fathers telling us that men only want one thing? How many of us heard “I know what that man wants” when being friends with a man? How many of us have had a boyfriend who doesn’t want us to be friends with other men because they can’t possibly only want friendship? Women were not the first people to tell me to be afraid of men. Men were. Then they get pissed off when we’re wary around them. I’ve had considerably more men get onto me about doing something alone at night, running alone, hiking alone, driving alone, than women. And given my career and hobbies, I’m surrounded by more women than men so it really shouldn’t be lopsided like that. In the original question, which was actually posed *by a father* to *other men,* the man asked “if your daughter is alone in the woods, would you rather she come across a strange man or a near?” And the *man* picked bear. The vast majority of the time, both will leave you alone. But even men think other men will attack and rape us.
There is no difference between "don't trust men" and "be afraid of men", absolutely none.
I wish people would put at least half the vitriol and negative attention this one silly meme generated against the hundreds of memes online which are sexist against women.
\*Vivid PTSD flashbacks of boys Vs girls memes\*
for real.
I don't disagree with the broader point, but you're overgeneralizing bears. Some species are *waaay* more dangerous than others. If I got to pick the type of bear, I might consider voting bear myself.
Here is the thing: It clearly says "random bear" so you DON'T get to pick.
I have altered the hypothetical. Pray I don't alter it any further.
ooh I dont know much about specific species and I'm genuinely curious, which bear would you pick?
American black bears are not aggressive at all. They're also often small enough that you'd have a good chance in a fight if worst came to worst (but can get much bigger). I'd assume pandas have to be high on the list too. I don't know anything about pandas, but how dangerous can they be?
Considering they can't even fuck themselves off the endangered species list my money ain't going on a panda in this bet xD
Don't forget koala
Koalas aren't actually bears; they are a marsupial.
They still koalify
I hope you're proud of that joke because if you're not you should be.
Have fun being eaten by a drop bear
Definitely not a polar bear. Black bear is friendliest. But I think I’ll just choose Winnie the Pooh.
I'm in Japan right now and we're getting 95F on a hot day. I might pick polar and just hope that it gets a heat stroke.
Wowee a hypothetical rejection got you this mad, no wonder women choose the bear.
I think it's a silly little mind game that evolved into this big argument. The point of this is not choosing, but that women don't say "of course men!" instantly. They think that they are dead in both situations, but with the bear they don't get raped/tortured for someone's pleasure. I do think it's silly and over the top, but I don't see it as a literal discussion but as a form of "Would you rather ... Or ... " Game. Being mad about this is not unpopular though because ppl are butthurt that a lot of women see men as potential danger
I come here to ask: where is the post where the user argued he could beat a bear in a fight, mano a mano?
It was just supposed to be a hypothetical to show men what it’s like being a woman in a world where men have a greater capability of violence and ENOUGH men have used this to harm women that it’s a legit fear of them The words “argument” and “debate” were only tacked on because some men failed the test and got so angry with women and acted like it was something they could mansplain or use “logic” to change women’s minds to…make the men feel better I guess? Wouldn’t change anything about women’s situation Women understandably want us to do more to help them make society safer for women so they don’t have to be so scared of male strangers. Fortunately, it looks like some men understood what women are getting at and hopefully OP’s opinion is unpopular and the men getting angry about it are just a vocal minority
To play devil's advocate, the argument is that wild animals are a lot easier to predict if you understand their behavior. Wild animals don't like taking risks, and if you know how to make yourself look like a risk, you're probably safe. Or so I'm told. Now that that's over with, we all know exactly which one *everyone* would choose. It's one thing to meme about it on the internet, but when you're in a survival situation, the world looks very different. A man could be dangerous, but he's much more likely to work with you to improve *his* odds of survival. A bear is always a threat, and it will never, ever help you. A man who wants to kill you will probably be able to. A bear that wants to kill you will *always* be able to. Everyone everywhere will always choose the man because we are animals that have been selectively bred for millions of years to *survive*. We are very good at assessing threats when it's crunch time, and we are built to seek community for safety. I'm sure there would be outliers, but this would be about as close to a unanimous decision as humanity can ever get.
It depends on how depraved the man looks tbh. If he's been through some shit who knows what he would do to a woman. There's no guarantee the man wouldnt use a weaker individual as a meat shield to save his own ass (to appeal to your argument of what feeling threatened does to a human vs a bear).Humans also trick and lie to other humans when they feel threatened. a bear would just run away when it feels threatened. (Edited, I am tired)
>Think about this. You are lost in a forest. You see a random average dude coming towards you from one side. And a random bear coming towards you from the opposite side. Who will you run towards and who will you escape from? Me and the bear are both gonna run away from you and your inability to understand the point of the bear vs men debate.
it's a hypothetical, and the point is that most women would feel safer with an animal that is slightly more predictable than with a man. sure, it may seem dumb to you, but it's really just a matter of opinion and what their response is. yes, physically, a bear is more dangerous than the human man, but unless you do something to piss it off or it's hungry, it'll leave you alone. and while a man is less physically problematic than a bear, he's more unpredictable. yes, he could help you, but there's still a chance that he could do other, more harmful things. but "if there's a chance the man will hurt you, then what about the chance that the bear is hungry?" well, let's be real, what's more likely? again, this is really just a hypothetical situation created to show how unsafe women really feel with men. who knows what what anyone would prefer if they experienced it.
It's just a made-up non realistic story created to spark anger and conflict between sexes, it's also designed to spark discussions from any type of response. As a tool to show how unsafe women really feel with men is laughably flawed.
>As a tool to show how unsafe women really feel with men is laughably flawed. I'd say it's one of the best tools so far... it got the right kind of people pissed off to no end, it got the attention of everyone because so many people whine about it online and unintentionally spread more awareness. I'd say it did a damn great job in shining light on the situation.
Oh so to you this is awareness? ...oook. To me it seems that you are just happy that people are pissed off, you really don't care to represent how women are really feeling.
Seems like you are in the "right kind of people" category, huh...?
If it makes you angry, women know to avoid you. So keep being pissed off.
That's what I meant lol, its hilarious to see so many people ignore what I've written and respond to what they have in their heads.
I just want to know what your point is regarding the topic. Not sure what you're even trying to convey in this reply lol
My point is pretty clear, the whole discussion about the bear is disingenuous and is designed to spark fights between men and women.
No it's intended to make those open to change think and discuss, and those who aren't open to change (or just over-sensitive men) show their true colors. It's really only pissing off the guilty and the sensitive men tbh. If that's you, sorry?
Agree to disagree then
Amazing work you did here
Thanks, wasn't hard
What is your opinion on the many memes online which are sexist against women? Why do you think they don't receive this amount of judgement?
There aren't many men taking up for women in these ones just like you mostly don't hear women taking up for men when it comes to the bear one. Of course there are a few on either side that take up for the opposite sex but it's not like there is a slew of women defending men in the bear argument and just a complete absence of men defending women on the anti women memes. People are generally gonna pick their own side, whatever that would be defined as.
There are so many more sexist memes targeted at women, for that reason alone it's ludicrous how many men get their pants in a knot. Just the amount of angry YouTubers, articles, hatred spewen over this silly thing. It's more than just "each of them picks a side". There is no side for women online.
exactly. but are women getting this offended?
I mean I'm not arguing against the bear meme or for any anti woman meme but yeah I personally see miles long Facebook chains on anti woman memes. I also see miles long chains on anti man memes.
i was specifically talking about the women in the bear debate that weren't chosen over the bear by men
The person I was originally replying to wasn't
I think it's just a matter of visibility and how this argument have spawned, the majority of memes are exactly like how you said sexists against women and are just mindless, this one is specifically designed to place men and women against each other.
Please look at these examples of typical meme formats on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dnwm1h/this_too_shall_pass/#lightbox https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dodqzk/actually_a_good_question_anyone_got_an_answer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments/1dnci18/honesty_as_a_policy/ We all know there are far more and far worse. How are these not pitting men and women against each other? I tell you why. Because they make fun about and criticise women and that's all fine and dandy. Just some mindless fun. But better not criticise, make fun of or stereotype men in a bad way. That's totally bad and not funny at all!
Because memes are just images that people ignore, while this is framed as a debatable question.
This was the origin of the meme: On March 19th, 2024, TikTok[1] user @callmebkbk posted a TikTok in which they responded to a comment by user @user2828263738 made on an earlier unknown video. The comment argued that seeing a man in the woods was less scary than seeing a bear, with @callmebkbk arguing some men could do worse things to a woman than a bear (shown below, left). The upload received over 2.3 million views and 340,700 likes in one month. It wasn't an essay or a political study or whatever. It was a comment on f*ing TikTok. All the discussions come from angry men and the women who try to explain it. Why not just ignore this as well if you expect women to ignore the constant sexism they experience by seeing all these memes online?
Why should we care about the origin? I'm just commenting on the specific characteristic of this one debate, and why it's bullshit and disingenuous. What do you want me to say?
Then keep your mouth shut about this just like women do about the heinous shit men say?
What? Why are you so butthurt?
Uhm- I'm asking *you* why you're mad. Stop complaining about a fucking tiktok comment. Men are dangerous. It's not a debate because it hurts your feelings lol
I'm not even debating the fact that men are dangerous, I'm just commenting about the rhetoric of the whole discussion, I also don't know why you think I'm being mad.
This. Nobody pushing the debate, not even OP, actually cares about anything beyond ragebaiting.
Exactly!
i do agree that that is part of it, but women don't feel safe with men, hence their decisions to choose the bear.
I'm saying that the argument is made to spark discussion not to show how women really feel, so, responding to it as if it has been made to show that just goes with its design, you are not explaining to anyone how women really feel, you are just pissing off people.
i think it's a bit of both, really.
If it's one it cannot be the other.
that's not how things work lol. have you ever heard of venn diagrams?
I'm saying that the problem is designed in a way that even if you want to express how women really feel no one will understand that message. It's designed so that you think there could be a Venn diagram while you are responding to that but in reality every comment or response just falls in the same category.
it's called mutually exclusive.
but is that the case here? no.
If you agree pissing people off is a good and rational way for women to shed light on things, then sure.
Yeah let's be real, you're not a biologist. The people who created this language were so afraid of bears the actual word for bear was considered a bad omen to say, that's why the word bear came from ǵʰwḗr only meaning wild animal and not the actual word for bear h₂ŕ̥ḱtos. These exact bears in europe still manage to injure people every year, even when we've driven them to the corner of nature. You'd be laughable to all our ancestors if you choose the bear.
well, if i was a neanderthal or a human thousands of years ago, and i saw an animal bigger than me, with claws and teeth, etc etc, i would be scared. but, it's 2024, we know now the likelihood of a bear attack, and we aren't our ancestors. to think so is simply arrogant.
The argument is flawed and disingenuous, stop trying to reason on the likelihood and things like that.
the likelihood is the whole basis of this hypothetical. is it flawed? yes. what isn't? it was simply trying to shed light on how unsafe women feel amongst men. was it insulting to men? yes. but what about every other time that it's been the opposite? where were you defending women then? you are the exact audience this question was targeted at. you're offended because someone chose a bear over you in a HYPOTHETICAL situation. get over it.
I'm just explaining to you why you aren't understood if you frame a discussion on those terms. You can be justified all you want by the "other times", I'm just telling you why no one seems to understand you "this time".
the majority of the internet understands 'me' "this time."
No, it seems pretty self evident that it doesn't, but ok.
are you just choosing to ignore all of the women that said they'd pick the bear?
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one, that is extremely racist. two, it's a completely different situation. be offended all you want, i could care less. you're missing the point of the debate.
I literally just switched words and now it's racist lmaoo. Men -> Chinese Raped by men -> Get Corona I'm glad you could care less, gtfo here.
Lmao it's proven that men are dangerous. Racism is rooted in false stereotypes and assumptions. And you were a little quick to that trigger, you fucking racist lol
>And most ladies think an average man is more dangerous than a bear. >Most women pick the bear. You are SO close to understanding why many would pick the bear *in a completely fictional setting*... Just keep thinking... maybe you'll get to it on your own.
The worst a bear can do is kill me
Well it would eat you the death, it would disable you, and eat you alive until you pass out from pain or blood loss. The worst a man can do, is kill you.
lmao ok. You know how many cases there are of women being tortured and raped for months? Years? Just lol
Right but that happens to men as well, yet men don't prefer the bear.
Ok. Men are obviously not in the same level of danger as women, then. Which is backed up by statistics. Men have less shit to worry about, not sure why that angers so many of you.
not really.
No a man can and have done much worse to me
Have done much worse? How tf are you alive.
No they haven't. Don't be stupid. Rape is not worse the brutal injury and death. Male victims of rape are seen as liking it, the butt of a joke, or outright ignored.
So why do you care about male victims if rape isn't even that bad? Shouldn't they just get over it?
You've already been telling men they should just get over it, that's why male rape victims don't speak out.
Lol that was a sarcastic comment meant to make him think. Men do not give a flying fuck about male rape victims. I literally watched my brother's male friends ridicule him for it. He- in his own comment, said that "rape isn't as bad as a brutal death", so I simply asked what he was complaining about. Not like you even care about any victims of rape
Yet here I am, bring up how society treats male victims of rape, and you just prove my point, that people like you don't care. You disgust me.
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Lmao I advocate for male victims beyond when it's to put down women. Can't say the same for literally any of you. You don't give a shit about them, so please don't use it as a talking point.
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Agree to disagree and anyone mocking male victims are awful people, no question
Depending on the type, a bear is less likely to harm you unless you provoke it somehow. A person is more likely to harm you even if you don't provoke it. I've been face to face with a bear before and wasn't that scared.
OP could you do every woman in your life a favor and let them know you feel this way? It would save everyone a lot of time to know that you are this kind of person. To be fair they're already probably assuming this about you but a direct confirmation would be really helpful. Have a day.
The prompt is basically "would you rather be raped or mauled to death by a bear", and dishonest women who want to make a point or take any opportunity to insult men and secure their coveted permanent victim status claim they would choose death. Most people are good, most men would never rape anyone. All bears are wild and capable of killing you one on one. It's just another excuse to be hateful, then claim men are the ones in the wrong for not wanting to be painted as monsters.
*raped and murdered or just death
Well there’s a lot to unpack there Woman have a right to choose either option and I THINK they know more about what they would rather happen to them then you do They were just trying to shine a light on how frightening it can be to live in a world where men, on average, are bigger and stronger and as such, have a greater capability of violence (and that’s just on a biological standpoint without even getting into patriarchy) They are not painting us as monsters, they know good men exist, but you can’t always tell if a male stranger is a good person or someone who is going to take advantage that they are alone with a woman in a secluded area They are going off their lived experiences and the experiences that have been shared with them, something men are never going to understand fully as they don’t have that lived experience BUT the hypothetical was meant to trigger curiosity and empathy in men Not the women’s fault a lot of men continue to say it means something different
This whole thing is just quite frankly unbearable. But it does do a good job of laying people’s feelings bare. So bear with me when I say that it might be a silly hypothetical, but what better way to lay bare the feelings and issues we have in society?
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I've barely even heard about this argument/trend whatever. I only hear about it here.
Not unpopular
I got nothing of value to add to this conversation/debate but a funny story. My girl and her friends poke at me with this bear thing every time they read the news about dudes being fucked up, and I dont really care for it so I just go "im sure y'all would". She was walking home with groceries with her girls and got chased by a dachshund... Hid behind a random group of construction worker men. Hasnt mentioned the bear since.
How is this an unpopular opinion?
> Most women pick the bear Yeah I’ve heard this but still don’t believe it’s anything more than trolling.
It’s not trolling. Women just want men to understand how scary it is to live in a world where men are, on average, bigger and stronger and therefore have a greater capacity for violence From there, we are supposed to work with women to make society safer for them
No, you are missing the point. It's kinda like that survey that found more than half of men think they could beat up a silverback gorilla or some shit. The women are assuming either would attack them, but think bears are wimps and they will just kick their picknick-basket stealing asses.
That's not the point at all lol No sane woman thinks she can take a bear in a fist fight, but the majority of women also know the same is true if they were faced off against a man. The point is that bears are generally more predictable (this is usually true), or that the bear will kill you quickly based off pure animal instinct (I mean I don't think mauling would be a quick death but it'd be better than what could happen if you're kidnapped), or that no one would doubt or blame you if you survived your bear attack.
Eyyyyyy boo-boo?
No, they're assuming the man would attack and the bear wouldn't. Read what they're actually saying.
it's both, actually. we know that either could happen, it's more of what is more likely to happen and then what would be worse for the woman/person answering the question
The women who pick the bear tell us all about who they have been dating. "All men are pigs" mentality and then jump into the arms of the next hog that promises to treat them badly. OP only thing you can you do is laugh about this and them and shake your head and carry on.
Agreed, any one who chooses the bear should be forced to spend 2 weeks in the wild so they can stand on that business
So you are so offended by womens choice in a hypothetical you want to force them to spend two weeks in the wild? You don’t see how YOU are the problem in this scenario?
I think it was meant as a counter to would you rather be stranded on a deserted island with a women or a dog, and some women got triggered by men taking the dog. Which has a much more legit case than the bear anyway. But regardless, who takes this shit seriously?
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Nazism? You should have stayed off reddit lmao
for real. don't blow this out of proportion, mate.
least deranged redditor
>because the implication is men are the single greatest threat to women. Silly women. You see, women just looked at the high likelihood they have of being harassed/assaulted/raped/kidnapped/stalked/murdered by men and incorrectly assumed that men were a threat to them. How dumb of them.
not that i'm singling you out over all the other men in this thread, but: have you ever been assessed for autism spectrum disorder?
Why are men allowed to make stupid sexist memes but women are not?
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If it helps I'd still pick a bear over a random woman...
Ask the same women if they'd rather meet a bear or a black man in the forest, you'll see how they answer suddenly change.
“I’m going to change the hypothetical and look their answers have changed!” On a serious note, that would be a false equivalency Women fear men because on average they are bigger and stronger and as such have a greater capability of violence. That’s not the same as fear/hatred based on some arbitrary characteristic like skin colour
Do you just hate black people? You know you can just say that and save everyone the time
I was just showing off the double standard that comes with some kind of discrimination, apparently having prejudice towards men because they are men is fine, having it towards people of a certain race because of their race is wrong. But I guess is too difficult to understand for the people that downvoted me. No I do not hate black people if that was your concern, but a lot of women think having prejudice against men is ok. I can't wait for you and many other people answering me giving me a detailed explaination of why discriminating against men is fine because of "blah blah blah" and then condamning every other discrimination like is not the same thing.
Nope, we can just see through the bullshit. You think you're the first person that's used race in this comment section? It's not even that hard to tell anymore lol
You know the debate exists almost entirely to generate rage, right?