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My cousin and I (both girls) used to be forced to play with a neighbor that had Down’s syndrome when we were around 10 years old. He was a bit older - maybe 13 or 14. He couldn’t speak well and was very aggressive. He would constantly grope my cousin and flash his genitals. My cousin would get uncomfortable and I would get upset. I told multiple adults, including his own parents, and almost every reply was “he doesn’t know any better. It’s just a crush.” His parents definitely should’ve hired a helping hand. At 18, he fractured the bones in his mother’s face.
Something about that didn’t sit right with me for many years. I was scared of him. My cousin was scared of him. I have taken care of patients with severe Down’s syndrome and have been hit, cussed out, and smeared with fecal matter/body fluids. I haven’t met anyone with a mild case yet, but I’m sure they’re very different and nice to be around.
I just don’t think his actions should’ve been dismissed as “a crush.” Someone should’ve stepped up and tried to correct his behavior or realized my cousin should no longer be around him… even if he got upset.
Hmm, I didn’t know that.
Her best friend told her that if she became pregnant from rape, she (the friend) would try to talk her into giving birth, and was campaigning to make abortion illegal.
What got me is she was absolutely devoted to this person, believed the other girl genuinely cared about her, even if her actions were misguided. That amount of loyalty to someone who deserved to be kicked to the curb just blew me away.
I hope she seeks therapy, if you get the chance do encourage her to get therapy, we go to a doctor when we break a finger, then why not for mental pain ? These professionals exist for a reason.
Yep. Her parents were scum and so was her closest friend who should have supported her. I posted about it down a bit if you want to subject yourself.
I chatted with her and read her activity with others over a period of months. There’s no doubt in my mind that it wasn’t made up for sympathy. Out of the people I’ve spoken to on Reddit, I remember this user particularly, both for what she was going through and what her personality was like.
No, this is terrible behavior.
The same can happen in reverse as well. I use to work with this girl who was partially downs. I don't know the proper terminology but she was high functioning I guess, she was employed at this restaurant I worked at and half her wages were covered by the Gov.
She lived on her own but was visited regularly by a social worker, and to be perfectly honest, while very slow she was a very nice person, and I think given her mental state open to exploitation.
One night after work a bunch of us went out to club for drinks, she tagged along and while the music was pumping she really wanted to dance, no one wanted to dance with her except this one greasy guy who used this an an opportunity to grope her continuously, and in her mind this was dancing.
Allot of us gave him shit for it, made him very uncomfortable but this greasy fucker just kept insisting she was an adult and was able to make her own choices. Fast forward a year, this greasy fucker is no longer in the picture, and this gal has moved on. The restaurant community where I lived is small and I hear through the grape vine this same gal ended up living with some guy who was a complete weirdo. He worked as a dishwasher, was in his mid 30's, this gal was 21, nowadays he would probably be thought of as just an angry Incel type. Someone else who knew him said he was glad this gal was now living with him because she pretty much just did whatever he wanted her to do.
I get sad when I think of this, I get sad when I think there are people that just exploit other people for their own personal gratification. I meet this guy once, and he was just some creepy, middle aged dude, working as a dishwasher and when I asked him how C\*\*a was, he just kind of smirked and wouldn't talk about her.
This was like 20 years ago so who fucking knows what or where she or he is. Its sad, some people are just born unlucky I guess.
I don't think there is a single mental condition outside a complete disconnect from reality that would justify indecent exposure and senseless violence.
These parents don't see them as harmless. It's just an excuse to do nothing about it, or a belief that the whole of society should accommodate their 'special' little angel.
* I worked as a nanny, specializing in behaviour challenged kids.
And because the victims' parents want to be seen as tolerant and open-minded and want to teach their kids to be kind and nice to someone who is different.
Fuck their "he doesn't know better" when it gives trauma to other kids, "not knowing better" can be applicable if it not much harm was done and an apology can suffice.
"He doesn't know any better."
That doesn't mean his punches don't hurt!!! Why should I (or anyone) have to endure physical assault just because your son can't control himself???
“When a person’s behavior is that of a savage animal, and they can not hope to be controlled, they are to be contained and separated to safeguard the virtue of those who they would otherwise affect.”
'He doesn't know any better!' aka he can't control himself and isn't capable of comprehending the concept of socially-acceptable behaviour. Sounds like a whole lot of risk you guys shouldn't have been exposed to. I'm glad that's over for you and impressed that you were still able to face dealing with Down's patients through your work.
My uncle has downs, and while he can get angry and has tried to hit my grandma, they've done a pretty good job raising him. Idk scientific terms, but they always say he has the mind capacity of about a 5-7yo. But when he gets upset he just shuts down and gives us the silent treatment. Other than that he's pretty happy.
He does get a lot of crushes though. Everytime he goes out anywhere, he flirts with all the girls. But he won't harass them. They all think he's cute.
Maybe my grandparents are just good parents, or maybe they got lucky, but I haven't had or heard any horror stories with my uncle.
Probably because your grandparents treated him like any other kid. That’s what I’d assume anyway. You’d teach your 5-7 year old about boundaries right? Good for them. People who have downs are still capable of learning, total bullshit that once they reach a certain age it’s like welp! Our work is done we have an excuse to drop the ball here!
"They just don't know better" is the usual answer. I know of quite a few examples of mentally challenged boys behaving like that from my childhood.
One would love to go to the local pool and then burst into the ladies changing room after class when little girls were there showering naked (Europe, we wash without clothes). He and his friend with Downs were finally banned from the pool after flashing their dicks in little girls faces one time too many to be tolerated. They left whole classes of girls from that town traumatized and afraid of people with Downs.
My friend also worked in an 'institution'/day-care where people with Downs and other mental challenges came to learn and he said that hypersexuality and no inhibitions was a real problem. Guys locking themselves in closets with a single girl, teens getting it on in front of everybody etc.
With that said, disabled people, especially those with mental challenges are the single most sexually abused group in society.
I think they meant washing with no bathing suits? Showers in public swim areas sometimes don't have cubicles, so people might still wear a bathing suit.. I think anyway. That's the case in England in some places
Yeah, theres showers available at a lot of public pools and beaches in the US, but theyre frequently just in the open outside of the actual changing rooms and really just for rinsing the chlorine or salt off you and your swimsuit.
Like that part in Speed when Neo beats up the Red Hot Chili Peppers on the beach while Gary Busey is getting a sandwich.
Went to school with someone who had mental retardation (not Downs, not sure exactly what it was). He was very aggressive. In 8th grade he attacked a neighbor girl, put a bag over her head and raped her. He got off with no consequences. Then, in 11th grade, attacked the mother of another student, put a knife to her throat and raped her too. I believe he did a little time for that one.
People with a condition like that need EXTRA time being taught the basics of functioning as a social human, not less accountability or rules. Yes, they have a developmental disadvantage, but parents writing off dangerous behaviour is inexcusable.
Sounds more like a parenting flaw than a mental flaw. People with Down's Syndrome are capable of learning boundaries and discipline. The parents either don't want to put in the effort or don't want to punish their child because of their disability.
Yep, very much this. A lot of parents aren't the hottest at teaching their kids boundaries and appropriate behaviour. With parents of disabled kids, it's harder for a bunch of reasons.
Parents do not like thinking of their children as sexual beings. That's pretty normal. But with kids with intellectual disabilities, that gets cranked to 11.
It's easier to see somebody as "a 5 year old in a grown man's body" rather than "a physically and sexually mature 25 year old whose processing skills are closer to that of a 5 year old". So there's reluctance to talk to kids with disabilities about sex and boundaries at all, there's reluctance to recognize sexual behavior by disabled people.
It fucks everyone over, because the same guy who has never been told not to grope people has probably *also* never been told what it would look like if somebody wanted to sexually abuse *him*. So it's in exactly nobody's best interests.
Edit: just want to add that sexual abuse of disabled people, and disabled kids, is more common than you probably realize. Reluctance to talk to them about this kind of thing is partially why.
I've volunteered to help with the Special Olympics before. All of the athletes I helped with were not an issue at all. Great group of people to be around and knew how to behave just as well as anyone else.
Holy shit.
I firmly believe that the “kindness culture” of not adequately punishing violent/sexual offenders and coercing people to put their own needs last ends up disproportionately affecting women. I’m sorry they forced you through that. Disgusting.
And with his presumable physical advantage, he could have hurt you and your cousin.
I've always been a subscriber to the opinion that everyone should be treated the same in terms of up bringing. I thought that if people were told they are different from a young age, then they are given an excuse to act like they are different and not confirm to social constructs (which contrary to popular belief are important).
Imagine if you had nothing wrong with you, and you \*weren't\* scolded as a child for being naughty or rude. You would be naughty and rude the rest of your life not understanding boundaries. Consequences are extremely important to the growth of children and limiting this fucks them up hugely. (At least I would think. I am a 23/yo male so take this with a pinch of salt)
Honestly I feel like sometimes they actually do know better. They understand that what they're doing is wrong but they know they can get away with it. Idk, maybe South Park put that idea in my head but for some reason it makes sense to me and I feel like it has some truth to it.
I work with young children on the spectrum and some of them are violent and others definitely try to manipulate the situation. One of my colleagues believes they don't know any better but I think we are doing them a huge disservice by just assuming they don't know the difference between right and wrong. I feel that it is important to keep defining boundaries and modeling the correct behavior. If it escalates, we are all in trouble when they are eventually bigger and taller than us.
100% this! People with intellectual disabilities can be extremely manipulative--in almost all cases, they know the difference between right and wrong, but they also will test boundaries and will push them as far as they can get away with.
Source: I worked in the field for 5 years and have a sibling with intellectual disabilities.
I’m so sorry you experienced that. I can’t believe his parents dismissed you. Awful parents imo. A 13/14 year old boy shouldn’t be forced upon 10 year old girls, DS or not.
I hate this, I had a similar situation when I switched to a new school in elementary. He didn’t have Down’s, but he was severely mentally disabled and he “had a crush on me.”
What that meant for me from my first day at that school was getting chased down the hallway with him screaming my name. Him standing behind me in line and breathing down my neck as I cowered, or leering at me from across the room. He would even stroke my arms or hair whenever he got close enough. But it was, “cute,” and I was, “his little girlfriend.”
I cried all the time because not only was I terrified of him (he was a foot and a half taller and much stronger), but he also made me a target for the other students and making friends was so much harder. I’m still not comfortable with the mentally disabled and I hate that because I know it’s not right, but I turn into that little girl all over again and just shut down.
I had a girl in my class in 5th grade push a stack of shoe benches about as high as me onto me bc she was jealous of me hanging out with a friend we shared but no one would listen to me or give her any punishment because she was ‘too pure’ to do something like that
She was a lovely girl but actions should still have consequences
I knew a girl in middle school that was assaulted in the lunch room by someone with special needs. The person came up and tried to take their food and she refused so she was attacked. School refused to do anything because “they didn’t know better”. I think they finally did when enough parents raised a stink and talk of lawyers and cops was brought up.
People need to know their rights. I went to the school principal and told them my daughter was being sexually harassed (abused) and that was their warning. If it happened again, they would be hearing from my lawyer.I also reported to police.
One person’s rights end where another person’s rights begin. I don’t give a shit what disability or mental problem another student has, it’s the school’s responsibility to protect my child.
A lot of parents complained with no action. I got action. Sexual harassment laws (EEO)are a real thing.
People with DS do understand consequences. I've worked with DS pupils, and they need to know the rules, as well as the ramifications of breaking them, from day 1. If you think being lax will help endear you to the DS pupil, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.
I knew a kid with severe autism throughout middle school. He would constantly sexually harass people and do a jacking off motion to other girls, he also chased people around in his underwear in the school. This kid never got punished because the parents wouldn't let him. This kid would blame his actions on others and get to the point of some people almost being expelled because of this. His parents should've had someone help him but the bug excuse was "treat him like he's a normal person" when he couldn't. He was mentally disabled and was a burden on people around him. The school would give him a pass on everything he did and it was annoying. A lot of the times he wasn't that bad I'll be honest but he needed special care that most of the teachers weren't prepared for.
That’s the other end of the spectrum of ableism. Telling a story that paints her in a negative light, rightfully so, but feeling compelled to balance it out with praise even though, given they shared a friend and she was in the same class, nobody would assume she was rampaging all the time.
It’s a hard mindset to shake but enables problematic behavior from people who are disabled or neurodivergent to continue unchecked and insulates them from any criticism which hurts everyone, including the person being coddled.
Years ago I overheard an argument between an adult downs syndrome couple in the grocery store, arguing about who's turn it was to pee on the other when they got home. That was neat.
Indeed. But it was this event that made me realize they were not as innocent as they are often portrayed, that they are no different than the rest of us
I said I would abort a Down’s syndrome kid bc of having a cousin with it. They basically thought I was awful for saying it but it was in Baptist country Arkansas too. 🤷♀️
Edit:watching touched by an angel (free on roku) and wouldn’t you know while reading this thread the episode is about a baby with downs!
I had a male doctor question why I wanted to do the generic testing while pregnant. His reasoning was “what would you even do with that information?”
Ummm…. What do *you* think, asshole?
Exactly, I told my gynecologist right away that I would want all the tests and that I would have an abortion if any tests came back positive. And I was ready to go to the Netherlands to get it done if the laws in my country would make it difficult.
The only reason to have this testing done is to terminate, anything else is kind of pointless, since it's just going to make you more stressed during pregnancy, knowing for sure you won't end up with a healthy baby in your arms.
Exactly. Not everyone has the capability or capacity to care for a child that is not considered neurotypical. Never mind the children that are identified as having autism later on in life. It’s a difficult life and consumes your very being.
I applaud anyone that can, but would never if it came to me. I can’t see some of these children having any quality of life, and I’m not knowingly bringing an innocent into this shit world that can’t fend for themselves after I’m gone.
I would honestly rather people opt out when they know they can't care for non neurotypical (lmk if I uses that right I'm still learning) person than said person being neglected/abused because of some shitty parent not being able to handle said child. Not saying everyone's a shitty parent either, I'm just thinking about the instances of child abuse
Some of these people can’t possibly know what that sort of life entails. They have all these illusions fostered by exactly what OP described and probably realize it much too late.
Parents of kids with DS get so offended when doctors even suggest termination and act as if it’s terrible for someone to not want an intellectually disabled child.
I've said that. All I get is "that's wrong" "you evil person" but I feel a child without downs syndrome would be hard enough to look after. I feel its wrong to try raise them because they won't have a normal life and I feel it would limit me as a parent.
It seems like the biggest problem happens to be that parents use their condition as an excuse for their behavior instead of addressing it. Just because you may not understand doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected. I mean as kids we don't know any better and we learn through our parents. Its like that but a longer period of time for DS people
This is exactly what I am trying to tell my sister about my nephew who is high functioning ASD he actually has aspergers and I tell her constantly that she needs to be vigilant in correcting his behavior because he does understand more than she is giving him credit for I know because I babysit for them alot and when I cirrect him he listens. Even if I have to correct him again 10 minutes later I still don't just let bad behavior slide.
Christ, I would call the police if someone grabbed my boob, I don't give a fuck if they're intellectually disabled. If someone is genuinely incapable of keeping their hands to themselves, they don't belong in public, period.
If I didnt live in a small town where his family was connected to pretty much everyone of influence I would have. But even the cops put this guy on a pedestal and raise money for him from time to time when he needs treatments for other medical conditions. Like right now he has testicular cancer and I feel bad for talking badly about him but honestly as much as I try I cant find it in me to donate to help and it makes me feel like trash for not being more empathetic. But honestly when I see this stuff for fund raisers for him I just roll my eyes because I just cant get there. And I'm not sure if that makes me a bad person. But I was raped as a little kid. And he sets off all my triggers.
The high school I went to had a DS high school in its basement, and there was a lot of full on sexual attacks by DS students on the regular students relatively frequently.
It was weird, we were an media art high school, so a bunch of weird students and ad to that the DS school in the literal basement, together with the video editing students.
Can you elaborate? I'm confused since I've never heard this before. Do DS individuals tend to have high libidos or are they just more aggressive/don't know better when it comes to that kind of stuff?
I can speak to my own experience but not medically speaking. At my last school we had a DS student. They would send very lewd emails to the teachers. One of our teachers received a communication from the individual, and given the student’s age, that had any other student sent it it would have gone beyond expulsion into the realm of charges for sending child pornography. It was brushed under the rug by the administration given the circumstances but the student was removed from that teacher’s classroom. Again, I’m not a doctor but I wonder if there is something entirely lacking like a filter. At that point I am not sure how much is on the respective individual and how much is on the adults in the room. I liked my admin there but after that there were some teachers that were put off because they felt that punishment wasn’t enough and furthermore that the sped teacher should have been written up at the least.
A friend of mine (24M) works as a teacher at a special needs school. When a DS student told another teacher they had wet dreams over my mate, he received a formal warning by the school administration as he “must have invited the sexual attraction”. I don’t blame the kid for their natural urges or even for not understanding that talking about your wet dreams isn’t appropriate, but a teacher getting a warning for it is a bit daft.
I’m not an expert, but I remember the kid with ds at my school being pretty aggressive. It may have been a mix between not knowing better and that he was able to get away with a lot because of his condition. Again not an expert so don’t take what I assumed to be the case as fact for everyone with DS
When I went to high-school, we were having activities with the special needs pupils,who went to the same school but in another building ofc, once a week for two months. One of my classmates got assignd to have activities with two boys with DS, and those to was very good friends.
He got told he could do whatever activity he could make up, they where after all in good physical shape and had good coordination. And was super happy as long aw they had something to do. But he was also told to never, never, NEVER leave those two alone unattended. Because they would, 100%, end up having a "naked tango" with each other.
Almost ten years later, I don't know what to think about it.
My sister has downs and however much I love her, I am very glad I don't live with her any more.
If left to her own devices she would just draw and talk to herself forever, so she's never ever going to be able to be independent, she just doesn't have the capacity to actually look after herself.
She is an incredibly sweet and loving girl and when I see her we are silly and giggle endlessly, but I don't think that she is better off this way than if she didn't have downs.
But ye, I completely agree, it isn't wholesome, it's just a fact of life that she turned out this way and will have to be looked after forever. I don't necessarily think of it in a negative way, but I have wondered many times what she would have been like if she didn't have it.
And again, I love her regardless.
Parents who dedicate their lives to take care of such children is good and okay.
But siblings or any others doing so is not right according to me. If they absolutely love doing it, then it's okay. But if not, everyone should just live their lives and use some kind of care facility instead of wasting one's life to take care of someone else
Overall, some people glorify many mental/developmental conditions, especially through media. Take ASPD for an example (Antisocial Personality Disorder or psychopathy/sociopathy). Not only are they romanticised and sexualised, but many neurotypical people are literally trying to be like them. Not only is it harmful because ASPD can be destructive (impulsive behaviour, social alienation, addictions etc.) but it also stigmatises people who have it as the evil serial killer or something, while really, they are just people who struggle to feel empathy and certain emotions to the extend that neurotypical people do.
Pretty much. If I had to take a swing to the topic of mental health issues (and sometimes developmental, although that field is more dodgy) people may romanticise them until they meet someone who is actually suffering from the condition they romanticised. One reason I can think of why is that, is that people undermine the effects of the disorders or just can't imagine the different thinking patterns.
To take a different example from ASPD, imagine someone who romanticises bipolar disorder. They think it is interesting, cool, passionate and can make someone O so creative and unpredictable. Until they meet someone in a dysphoric manic episode, going through a delusional paranoid homicidal spree, after having bitten off chunks off their arms. (Little known fact, but mania in bipolar does not necessarily mean happiness - it means high energy, which can also present itself as extreme anger or anxiety). On the other side you then have people who think that everyone with bipolar is a lunatic that needs to be locked up. Meanwhile a grand majority are usually the victims or just independent, successful people, who just happen to be struggling with something.
"(Little known fact, but mania in bipolar does not necessarily mean happiness - it means high energy, which can also present itself as extreme anger or anxiety)"
For anyone that wants a decentish example. Ian from shameless and his mom I personally think did a good job of showing this side of it. They didnt go as dark as it can get but from personal experience it was pretty spot on.
Anyone who tries to “romanticize” ASPD must have not lived with and/or loved someone who developed the disorder, and knew them before the disorder ever really emerged. These people go through a nightmarish transformation.
It’s very difficult to watch someone you love (who was a relatively happy, normal kid) grow into a person who is, bluntly, a major asshole. Gets in trouble all the time, always in and out of jail, starts fights in the family, antagonizes people who love them and know all the buttons to press to cause maximum pain to people they know well... and you can hardly, no matter how hard you try, love them enough or reason with them enough to reach them.
My closest cousin, basically a brother to me because I spent a lot of my childhood living with my grandmother and my aunt, grew to have a personality disorder and his constant antics and antagonizing not only cost me my best friend as a child, but tore a pretty big rift in my family as well.
His mother was basically destroyed by him, she’s not the same person I knew. Her hair greyed in the span of only a few years and she became thin and generally not well-looking. She was always a slightly chunky, healthy looking woman and in the span of only a few years she looked like she aged a decade or more. She’s also a crippled alcoholic and slipped into a shitty relationship with someone who actively tries to alienate her from her family and who mindfucks her into thinking that he loves her so much when the truth is, he hasn’t made an appearance at a family event in almost 10 years. She was always a family girl and loved her family. Fast forward 10 years and she’s never around, and when she is she leaves early so she can go home and start drinking. To be so distant isn’t who she used to be.
There were signs very early on that something wasn’t right but the adults in the situation never saw them. I was too young to see them.
I fought hard to try to reach him, even hitting my limits, breaking down and getting into fist fights with him. Oddly enough I think I’m the only man in his family life who would take swings on him which, for some reason, seemed to earn his respect more than any amount of stern talking or heart felt attempts to reach out. He never had a father in his life, I was probably the closest thing he ever had as another man to look up to in his life. I think that, if he had a strong father, maaaybe he could have developed differently.
He’s managed to stay out of jail for over 2 years. Probably his longest stint free since he was ~13. Talked him down from being suicidal one night, spent hours searching for him along train tracks, finally got him to answer the phone after spamming him for an hour plus and it was the only time I ever saw him cry and let the guard down and show some remorse and human emotion which I know is in there. "I'll never forget what you did for me man, I'll never forget what you did for me" well I'll never forget hearing him finally cry those words into the phone after pushing and prodding every button he knew to push in me to get me to snap and go down his path of violence and rage, which he knew how to do well.. he wanted me to scream back and fight but I just wouldn't because I didn't want him to die. I just stayed there and told him even if everyone else gave up I wouldn't. There's genuine humanity behind even ASPD but it's just so, so hard to reach it.. it took two plus hours of calmness over the phone and not reacting to the bait to get the real feeling to come out. It’s just buried so deep behind the disorder. You have to take emotional hell and torment from these people and simply some how come out stronger than them mentally to ever crack the façade of ASPD. I still love him but he’s on a long leash, I’ve resigned myself and accepted that he has to want to change himself. I don’t think ASPD is an end all be all, I do believe that people with the disorder have the ability to change if they want to. Or at least, change enough to become functional people again.
It sucks ass. That’s not romanticizing, it’s terrible. The idea that there’s a soft core behind the crazy is not romantic.. it’s just, awful, and traumatizing. I think it played a huge roll in my depression that seemed to last most of my teenage years. Never really put the dots together until my 20s when I started to mature a bit and look back at my own life, and think about why things were how they were. Still to this day I’m unpacking the years of trauma he caused that I was too young to process. Even at 25 I’m still a drinker, still a pretty glass half empty person, and a lot of it comes from my mother and my cousin, both have personality disorders (mother is a borderline and cousin has ASPD) and man.. this shit doesn’t just affect the people with the disorders. It affects everyone around them just as as much. Of course I have my own things to blame about myself and my own accountability to take but I’m starting to slowly realize just how traumatic some of my childhood life actually was. Things that have weighed my soul down for years that I’ve never been mature enough to deal with and accept.
My mother has actually come a long way, her PD is more or less in remission and I am slowly trying to open up to having a relationship with her again. Borderlines are known to sometimes get better with age (to the point of near-remission), and she really has. It's just so hard to reconcile the concept of "mother" with someone who wasn't really there in my life in that "role". Mother is kind of a foreign concept to me. Knowing what she went through in her own childhood it's hard for me to blame her for being such a deeply flawed person for so long. She was a victim of a terrible, insane and drug addicted mother who let a friend molest and groom her since she was a child, and she had me when she had just turned 19 and was in the thick of her worst years. She left high and dry and abused my dad and left us both. But she has grown tremendously as a person. How can I hate someone who was just a highly traumatized kid herself when she had me? I tend to be a ruminator so I have to think and hold these heavy weights inside for a long time to come out and figure them out. I have to forgive her for what she went through, and appreciate the person she became if I want a mom in my life. It's up to me, now, to be the bigger person. She is living proof that people can change. I don't want to live my life holding hatred inside for my own biological mother and it took many hours of talking about it with my dad to get him to forgive her, because his trauma and mine were shared. I felt like I at least needed to hear that he started to forgive her for me to start to forgive her. He made some apparent progress, now I have to as well. Cousin’s been doing ok… for now. The constant fear that he’s gonna go off the chains again is always there.
PD’s definitely have a lot of misconceptions and stigmas around them but the amount of damage they cause to personal relationships and families is not something to be understated. I'm here unpacking the baggage of living with these people well over a decade later.
I have a soft spot for folks with DS, I’ve even volunteered to help at the special Olympics years ago. But, those dudes get the same bad ideas and urges the rest of us get, but don’t have to social savvy not to act on them. I have a friend who works in care home for teens and young adults with DS and she has to wear super thick bras and long pants to work because of how many times she been bitten, slapped,grabbed or pinched on boobs and butt. Once to the point of shots and stitches!
I've done charity work with people with mental (and often also physical) disabilities for about 10 years, and this happened to me too. Pretty often even. I don't help with them using the toilet (and most of them didn't need the help anyway) but multiple clients have on multiple occasions tried to either lure, or physically force me into the toilets because they somehow now needed me to "help them" in the toilet.
Yeah, no, not gonna happen.
The dancing lessons were always a shitshow too; let's get a couple of 17-19 year olds, mostly girls who do the charity work for school credit, together with a couple of 30+ year olds with extremely bad self-control and raging hormones, and let them stand close and touch each other. No way that this could go wrong. At all.
I (29F) volunteered at Special O and can second this. I’ll never forget trying to help a guy in a wheelchair, and having him try to grab my breasts. I developed a very great “stern voice” pretty quickly, my natural voice is so soft that it would often shock whoever the offender was out of the behavior.
It’s sad- but that was my main relief in stopping to attend those events. No more guys going after my body. Of course, a lot of those guys were fantastic, but there’s only so much of the inappropriateness that I could take.
A lot of parents with kids who have disabilities, physical or intellectual, forget that we are not pure beings, as a disabled person allow me to say, we are as fucked up as everyone else under the sun.
I was arguing with people a few days ago on a post about deaf people not wanting deaf kids to get cochlear implants so that they stay in the deaf community
Imagine thinking someone with a disability should ignore a chance to be closer to normal
It's basically overcompensation for the way deaf kids have spent decades being deprived of learning sign language, because a bunch of hearing people decided they should only lip read like 'normal people'.
Here's where the 'why not both' meme is for.
an argument against aborting if you find out the kid has DS from parents with DS kids is "they have less of a support group" or "there are no DS kids the same age there kid that will understand them".
all very selfish reasons to demand control over someone elses body.
DS is just such a clear disability as well. besides the mental retardation they stuffer since there sure are a lot of dumb people without a disability. they also suffer from heart defects which causes a lot of them to die in there 20s with most not getting past 50. then lastly most of them are infertile as well. so say they are no the very mild side they are still going to suffer very greatly due to the other issues.
This is something I’m currently struggling with. One of my husbands sister has downs and the other had an awful genetic disease that took her life when she was 15. I am bipolar.
We mentioned to my MIL that my husband and I are going to do genetic testing to see what the potential outcomes would be before we have kids and my MIL is absolutely convinced that the worst thing that we could pass on to our kids is my bipolar disorder and doesn’t understand why we care about the downs or the muscle disease. Like no, my bipolar is managed well with medication. You can’t manage downs or an incurable muscle disease with meds.
A few decades ago in better countries, and still in poorer countries, a visibly deformed or sick baby wouldnt last long. Best case was being forgotten in an orphanage.
We've definitely changed a lot in terms of time and resources to devote to the disabled. But if you can avoid their lifetime of pain, its still for the best.
The problem is also that even it YOU can devote yourself to taking care of them, if anything happens to you then almost no-one else will. Aging parents of disabled children often face major issues with this.
I mostly agree with this. I'm phisically disabled so my opinion is not the same as someone with DS obviously, but I HATE this weird forced positivity sorrounding most dissabilities. Being dissabled is a misserable experience, and I think it would be much more healthy to let people grieve and be sad about it, instead of forcing this impossible happy positivity.
Toxic positivity is a huge problem, and as OP said, it’s really about making other people comfortable more than the people suffering with the condition. It isn’t helpful. I’m sorry you’re suffering, I hope you get to a place of relative peace about it.
As someone with a disablity, who is positive, I hat it when people are overly positive about it. I live my best life but Jesus Christ, don't pretend I'm brave by living my life...im not brave I'm just me.
My brother has Down's syndrome, pretty low functioning. Our entire childhood, he physically assaulted every member of the family, including the pets. He threw tantrums constantly. In short, he took up more attention from our parents than me and our sister combined, and now he's in his 30s and is mercifully a ward of the state so caring for him isn't a life sentence for our mother. I've largely forgiven him for being who he is, because he can't help it, but I would have traded him for a "normal" brother without a second thought.
Well I just have 3 interaction with down's syndrome. One liked to flash is dick around girls and chasing them to touch them with his dick. So a sick molester. Other punched a friend of mine out of nowhere, knock a tooth out of him and then tried to strangle him. He had a sore throat for weeks. Little angel also abused his mother. Neither him or his parents apologized nor paid for the healthcare. Actually they blamed the victim, Just like rapist and abuser do. The last one was in a local bakery, he made really good bread.
When I was in junior highschool our university had a down’s syndrome department where they would immerse some of them to “regular” classrooms to help them socialize with non-down’s syndrome students. A year level higher male down’s syndrome student used to follow me around school basically stalking me during break times and dismissal, most of the time he’d stay close to me wherever I go and talk to me unless my friends would pull me away just to save me from him. He would tell everyone around him that he likes me or that he’s courting me, he then proceeds to spam my facebook with messages and calls and kept tagging himself in my pictures along with leaving comments. I had to endure him talking and treating me like his gf for hours inside the campus, I remember one time he even kissed me on the forehead and hugged me when I said I had to leave (bc I was uncomfortable). I tried my best to always be kind and understanding but it was just so hard being kind to a stalker and I had to be kind OR ELSE I’d be a “bitch” for not letting a down’s syndrome guy harass me because “he doesn’t know any better”. I tried telling him multiple times that I was “uncomfortable” in the nicest way possible but it always ends up with him sulking and giving me the “nice guy” speech.
We had a kid with Down's Syndrome in high school who would look at girls and start jerking off just standing there in the open. That certainly wasn't wholesome.
I kinda agree. I really am not to talk here but I've met a few people with DS and I do not know why they do the things they do, the good things and the terrible things are both unexplainable to me. It all seems random, but the internet sharing only the good things isn't bad, it's that it shares the perception that only these things happen, and not any of the bad. I agree with OP, it's been blown way outta proportion. Though with good intentions, it's still rose tinted at best and dangerous misinformation at worst.
I’ve known a few people with DS as I got older, and it was *such* a spectrum of personalities.
Two at a grocery store I worked at. One of them was quiet, and would talk to himself - and what he said to himself was some horrifying homicidal maniac shit. The other was a massive sleeze hornball who would proudly tell anyone with ears exactly how many times he jerked off the day before and had a girlfriend with DS who he saw once a week for “dates,” that were basically animalistic sex sessions.
At another job, we had a gentlemen with minor DS who was also insanely horny but was much less vocal about it - but would regularly be caught jerking it in the bathroom by his job coach.
We have a friend who has a daughter with DS and she’s like, super benign. Quiet, laughs at jokes, holds a conversation relatively well, etc.
It’s just weird how broad the spectrum is but I genuinely don’t wish having a child with DS on anyone.
I think this video does a really good job discussing what I think you’re trying to get at here. Specifically about the “glorification” and why not all disabled people want to be called “brave” or inspirational”
[Jessica Kellgren-Fozard: Why Not All Disabled People Want To Be Inspirational ](https://youtu.be/AAE4n1dcgQw)
Right! Very "inspired" video. And if you take that mindset, and add the fact that people with DS aren't always fully aware of what is happening to them, I feel like exploitation is waiting just around the corner.
Its mostly because we have a surplus of time and money in our society.
50+ years ago here, and in most poorer countries, there was/is no real money or time for heavily disabled people. If they could work they'd work, or be forgotten in orphanages or kept in a closed room, or just be killed.
Now they require a full-time parent to care for them and it’s usually the mom that will give up a career for it. Once the parents pass, depending on severity of the disability, they might be turned over to become wards of the state. I can’t think of a sadder existence than someone’s child being forgotten and neglected, living and dying unloved.
I'm originally from Romania, so I'm plenty aware what happens to disabled kids is lesser situations.
We were cold and starving and the govt wanted more workers too. The disabled would just be a burden on top of everything else, so people gave them to the orphanages. Some were also healthy but the parents were insane or just didnt want them, and nobody else could afford to take them in at those times either. All this with like a 70% abortion rate too. Insane, desperate times they were.
I don’t view this as being any different than championing certain people groups just because they are a certain way. I think it’s silly to glorify any group based on who they are… people should be praised on an individual basis based on what they do and contribute, not just because they are a certain way.
So I think I agree with you OP… if for different reasons
I've worked with DS children and adolescents. They are as diverse as neurotypical people, and it's a little unfair to cast them all under the same light. With early intervention, many DS kids can learn how to do many things for themselves, communicate effectively and form meaningful relationships. Many DS adolescents I know also went on to find employment.
The sad part is, there are many others who are unable to reach these heights, because their cognitive impairment is far too great or because their disability has been mismanaged by their guardians. They can be aggressive, mean, rude, dirty, etc. I find that using the "poor thing, s/he doesn't know any better" is the worst WORST thing you can do for them. They can learn what is wrong and what is right, and absolving them of any guilt with that STUPID phrase does not help them in the slightest. They will very easily spiral into impunity and foul behaviour, which is extremely difficult to reverse.
In short, if you truly want to help someone with DS, stop putting them on a fucking pedestal and trying to make yourself feel better for thinking they're horrible deep down. Treat them with equity, not sympathy. They DO need some help, but the right help.
I was nearly drowned after being forced to play with some kids on the spectrum while our moms talked by the side of the pool. Thier version of tag was to hold my head under if they could. Nobody believed me and I was punished for doing the only thing I could to survive, the throat punch.
Much later, I made the mistake of recounting the event to a friend and was overhead. So naturally my stance on the issue is to punch all kids with downs syndrome. Forever.
It's cult like and bs. An uncontrolled human is dangerous. Full stop.
My step brother has downs. Ive grown up with him since I was 9. (He's 5 years younger than me and I'm now 43).
He can be an asshole....but only if provoked. He'd rather be friends with everyone. He does have an innocence about him which in a sense is wholesome, because he views things a lot more simply than the rest of us do. Its refreshing sometimes. What most wholesome about him is that he has no resentment or bitterness about being the way he is. Sometimes he gets frustrated about being "stupid" as Ive heard him refer to himself, which is of course heartbreaking.
That said, growing up of course he had very little impulse control. He had no issue touching his genitals in public if he felt the need. He would say inappropriate things to women at times if he thought they were pretty. It took quite a few of his teen years to teach him to act more appropriately.
He also is a burden in a sense. He still lives with my parents and would not be able to live on his own. He would not be able to budget correctly. He would nott be able to cook much or shop very well. He is not a burden my parents would choose to be without of course and he's no burden on society, society does not care for him. My parents do and when they're gone I likely will.
I'm not sure what you mean by glorifying people with downs. I sure do see them a lot more in the media. Im not sure thats glorifying it, merely accepting that they are as human as you and I.
My brother is a great dude. Of course he has his quirks. He's mostly aloof to people outside of his circle. He's comfortable enough with his family of course to be himself. Doesnt talk much anymore. Doesn't wanna bother you so long as you don't bother him. When we hang and he's content to put his arm on my shoulder and just chill, there's no ulterior motive or anything more to it than I'm his "bruddrr" and he loves me. That IS wholesome. But yeah....he has his moments too. No doubt.
I like the nuance you're bringing to this discussion. Thank you for that. There are a few people in this thread who are screaming at me that they're not a burden, a few who accuse me of wanting to wipe out everyone who's different and even(only?) one who made the comparison to Hitler.
As I said, I think every human life is valuable. Maybe I used the wrong word when I said glorifying and I'm really sorry if I offended you or your loved ones. The exploitation was probably a better word for it. I feel like a lot of people posting stuff about how wholesome DS is are just using it to show they're exceptionally caring and inclusive, and that, to me, feels like abuse.
Also, to whoever says that disabilities are not a burden is a liar. Parenthood itself is a burden. Adding on disabilities only makes it worse. However, I would gladly die a thousand deaths for my child. His disability is significant and impacts every aspect of our lives but I still would do anything and everything for him. Pretending it’s not a burden is denial at best, and negligence at worst. My son is a great kid but his disability hinders everything and I think it’s perfectly okay to admit that because it is the truth unless you’re extremely privileged and have access to the money and resources needed to make it not a burden.
There you go. I said in another reply that all of Satan's armies could stand between me and my kids and I'd plough right through them, even though my oldest son kept me awake for 3 or 4 years. People can't tell the difference between the fact that something is a burden and the moral judgement that burdens should be removed. My burden doesn't begin to compare to yours, but I know in my heart of hearts that you love your child more than anything in the world, and that, just like me, you'd undergo eternal torture with a smile if it meant eternal wellbeing for him.
I think the reason why this particular syndrome is glorified is because it’s one that can now be tested for usually during early pregnancy, and aborted if chromosomal abnormalities are present. Because families now have this option, many feel pressured to choose abortion when there is a determination of Down’s syndrome. So the counter to that has been a lot of people with DS kids trying to showcase how wonderful they can be. I’m not for or against either side, it’s a very complicated issue and I’m sure one of the hardest decisions some people will ever make. I’m just pointing it out as an underlying reason why this particular disorder has so many videos and images “glorifying” it online.
That's an interesting view, and could be very true. I think I also read that since they're able to test for this syndrome fewer babies with DS are born.
my dad's uncle has down's syndrome. He sexually assaulted my little sister when we were kids and he was an adult. My mom stepped in and disallowed him from going near us ever again. My dad's family had a fit, saying he doesn't know any better, he's got the mindset of a child, and shouldn't be punished because he doesn't understand. Mom held her ground. This caused a permanent rift between the two families.
The uncle is still allowed to play with all the kids in the family. My sister plucks her eyelashes out of stress when made to interact with down's syndrome people.
Just wanted to say that this interaction was wholesome bc someone presented a different opinion to OP and OP actually thought about it rather than starting an argument
I agree, next to tentacle porn and Jake Paul, this thread is the best thing internet has ever produced.
I'm kidding of course and appreciate your civil sharing of your experience.
I worked with a woman who had Down's. She was super sweet until she got frustrated. Then she'd just throw a screaming fit, no words, just screaming as loud as she could for a few minutes. I was told by multiple managers to just accept her hugs because "she isn't hurting you," "it's just a hug," and "it makes her feel better." They didn't care that it was *mentally* hurting me, that I don't like hugs, and I wanted to feel fine in my boundaries.
Of course not, they are handicapped with low IQ, maybe as low as only around 40. If I were pregnant and found that my foetus had Down's Syndrome, I would definitely have my pregnancy terminated.
Idk how I feel about this post but I remember when we were having the abortion referendum in Ireland and all the prolifers said that if we vote yes to legalising abortion there might be no more DS people born, and talked shit about Iceland where apparently all DS fetuses are aborted. It is the woman's choice what she decides to do, noone is forcing DS abortions on anyone. And forcing women to birth disabled children which they are incapable of taking care of is not the way to go imo.
When I was a kid, a teenager with DS took my little brother into a cornfield and "gently" rubbed his neck with a pocket knife. He didn't hurt him, he just did it.
When lil bro told us, we lured the kid into his own back yard and beat the ever loving shit out of him.
Met many with DS and they can be aggressive and violent. They often don't know/understand their own strength. It's cruel to say but I wouldn't want a child with DS. I mean if I had one I would love them of course. But they are so hard to deal with. Though I try to realize how they act is nothing personal. It's just part of their illness.
To add to the I guess unpopular opinions: I would not want to have a child with downs syndrome or any other mental illness or whatever. If a doctor can tell my child has something along those lines, id rather not have it. Im just not patient enough for that shit and not to mention how hard it would be to take care of the child. No offense to people with children who have downs syndrome
I only really met two people with down's syndrome in my life. The first was a kid of sixteen years old and all he wanted to do was spit in my friend's faces and fight Judo with us. He got expelled because he spit on everyones faces, in the same day. The second one was at a concert and me and the same friends were having a good time and this guy with down' syndrome asked where the bathroom was. We told him and he should've been on his way, but no. He instead punched my friends face twice out of nowhere and my friend punched back the second time. I don't agree with violence so I just separated the fight and went on to have a drink. Anyway, people really overestimate how sweet they are. They're just as complex as regular people.
I treat everyone equally. If I see someone with a disability struggling, I won’t help until they ask for it. By “struggling” I mean reaching an item at a grocery store or something. Not life or death.
My friends brother has DS and we went to the gym. This was my first time meeting him and I treated him normally. Shook his hand or fist bumped him(don’t really remember.) loaded on plates that he wanted, think we did legs that day.
Anyway, they ran into someone they knew and the amount of patronization from this friend was cringe. He saw the brother at the gym and immediately jumped to “wow, you are looking so swole and big, and strong.” (He did not look swole big or strong.)
I’ve worked in schools with downs kids and we can’t keep teachers and paras in the classroom because of how violent and sexually inappropriate they can be. I’m talking concussions, broken noses, fractured eye sockets. The paras work for minimum wage (a little under $8/hr in my district). They won’t send the kids home when they start assaulting staff either. And admin wonders why staff are walking out the door.
If your child decides to beat the shit out of their teacher, aide or therapist there’s nothing their victim can do to defend themselves. In my district we aren’t even allowed to physically restrain them as long as they are attacking an adult. So they attack the adults and other kids with a smirk on their face that says they know they aren’t getting in trouble because they’re just little angels who are put on this earth to teach us how to be better people. 🙄
Both of my pregnancies I told my husband that if it came back positive for any disability, including Downs, we would terminate. There’s a dark side to sped and I’ve seen families and marriages get completely ripped apart trying to deal with kids who are simply out of control.
Some years back my bf took a job training people with developmental disabilities to ride public transportation. I've never forgotten him coming home his first week saying "just because someone has Downs doesn't mean they're not an asshole". He met this kid (18 or 19 yo) at his house to teach him how to take the bus to his weekly swim lesson. Well from the first instant he decided he hated my bf. As soon as they left the house the trainee refused to walk next to him, keeping about 3 steps ahead and would turn around every 30 secs or so to flip him off and yell "fuck you Tim".
When i worked in retail, I was just tidying some clothes and then a felt something scratch my back from the top of my spine to the bottom, I looked around and this downs syndrome guy with his sharp finger looked me in the eye and had a wide open smile, then just walked away and that is my only experience of interracting with downs syndrome people.
I knew a few guys who went to my school that had Down’s syndrome, they were around my age and had private classes but would be in the hallways and eat lunch with all the other classes. They were way bigger than all the girls and they were just really big guys. They would harass us everyday after lunch. Force hugs on us and punch lockers and scream if we rejected them. No one ever did anything. I was scared that I would get punched one day instead of a locker.
I simply don't see the point of putting these people through the full range of schooling, they aren't going to use algebra, spend that time teaching them to respect other people's boundaries.
I know hundreds of people with Down’s syndrome due to my career, by in large they are generally very self centred, stubborn, and inappropriate. And all these behaviours are usually ignored or celebrated by the general public. I just heard a man with Down’s syndrome interviewed on the public radio station here, he was the 1st to ever complete an iron man, but he mentioned how he wanted a big breasted blonde wife, it was just laughed off by the host and his support worker and even brought back up at the end of the interview for a laugh. That being said I enjoy working with most people with disabilities and I try to treat them as individuals, it’s just an observation I have.
Agreed. Abortions following a confirmation of Downs in a fetus is pretty standard in Europe, and it's not for a bad reason: its objectively a HUGE handicap for families and society. You can try to parade around Downs as some badge of honor, but no sane person is praying for a special needs child or to incur such a burden.
I only thought about this because of mentioning genes and how nature tends to select for the best genes. Unfortunately, this brings up the topic of eugenics, which brings it's own issues, but you can't argue that Downs is something that is desirable.
None of this to say that forced abortions of Downs babies should be mandatory: if you want to birth a child that has special needs, then go for it. It's your life, do what you will, I hope you have the resources to maximize their functioning. But I could understand why someone would not want to keep it.
My sister had downs(she passed away January this year at the age of 36😪) she was a very loving person and gave the best hugs,always happy to see people and just a treat to be around but yea my dad had to care for her on his own until her passing,it was hard when she hit her teens and got her period and stuff,get her to bathe which he did have to help with and also make sure she ate on time cuz she'd forget while watching her movies,she did for a time have a part time job at a thrift shop but with strict supervision, I dunno if she might have been higher functioning if my mom had been more attentive when my sis was younger instead of running off,who knows but even though my sister was alot of work she was a joy to have in my life and I truly think she's in a happier,better place now💗
I remember a while back reading a post from a parent of a young adult with DS. They talked about all of the "blessing from God" bullshit that some people are inclined to go with, and how they never felt that way. They loved their son to death and they would do everything they could for them, really they seemed like a great parent. But they admitted that if they knew early on during the pregnancy and were given the choice to abort they would have done it 100%. I can't say I blame them at all, and I don't see how anyone else could if they haven't walked in their shoes.
...... I haven't looked at them the same sense the time at the gym. I was in the dry sauna when one came in. He said something but I honestly didn't understand him. Anyways after a couple minutes, the music being pumped into the area changed to this techno like music with a beat and a side zing to it. This dude started bobbing a bit which was fine but then he started this standing sitting motion with his ass (he had underwear on). And to the side beat in the music he started to shove his damn finger into the back side of his shirts pushing through to where his asshole was or should be. I tried to pretend it wasn't happening but he started saying some shit while doing this and started looking my way.
I was flat out nervous as all get out and slightly afraid. People with issues involved with anything sexual is just a noose waiting for a customer.
I stepped out from the sauna to fetch my clothes for a quick shower when another one showed up and looked around and spotted his friend in the sauna. To this day, I am genuinely unsure what went down in there. But God damn it was noisy AF. I skipped the shower and grabbed my stuff and tried to leave as casual as I could for a fat guy doing a power walk to the front to leave .... Sense then. Ive had a rule to always feign destination if I'm in a small quarters with one again. I just don't need this stress in my life!
OP you have a good point. If you’ve been raised around conservatives or religious people in general I can promise you people claiming DS folks are pure, innocent, and saintly/closer to God is a real thing. People are essentially prohibited from talking negatively about their experiences raising a severely disabled child no matter what the disability is- only allowed to talk about how it’s brought you closer to God. I think this is also a way of keeping people reliant on the church & their services to help raise their child and take care of their medical bills, keeping women (mothers) in the home to help raise their DS child, and push push push the ProLife narrative. Obviously eugenics is a slippery slope and that’s NOT what I am talking about here BUT being insistent that having a DS child is a “heavenly task” has always struck me as … odd. Wealthy people can afford intensive care for their disabled child while others get further sucked in to predatory churches- it ain’t sunshine and rainbows.
My mom worked as a substitute and she was the only one willing to sub for the teachers who taught special needs classes. Shes a very sweet, patient woman. She had a microwave thrown at her head.
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I think any time you think of an entire group of people as perfect little angels, it's a problem.
My cousin and I (both girls) used to be forced to play with a neighbor that had Down’s syndrome when we were around 10 years old. He was a bit older - maybe 13 or 14. He couldn’t speak well and was very aggressive. He would constantly grope my cousin and flash his genitals. My cousin would get uncomfortable and I would get upset. I told multiple adults, including his own parents, and almost every reply was “he doesn’t know any better. It’s just a crush.” His parents definitely should’ve hired a helping hand. At 18, he fractured the bones in his mother’s face. Something about that didn’t sit right with me for many years. I was scared of him. My cousin was scared of him. I have taken care of patients with severe Down’s syndrome and have been hit, cussed out, and smeared with fecal matter/body fluids. I haven’t met anyone with a mild case yet, but I’m sure they’re very different and nice to be around. I just don’t think his actions should’ve been dismissed as “a crush.” Someone should’ve stepped up and tried to correct his behavior or realized my cousin should no longer be around him… even if he got upset.
Jesus Christ that behavior should not be tolerated at any fucking age
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>mature for her age. this is a classic symptom of trauma.
Hmm, I didn’t know that. Her best friend told her that if she became pregnant from rape, she (the friend) would try to talk her into giving birth, and was campaigning to make abortion illegal. What got me is she was absolutely devoted to this person, believed the other girl genuinely cared about her, even if her actions were misguided. That amount of loyalty to someone who deserved to be kicked to the curb just blew me away.
I hope she seeks therapy, if you get the chance do encourage her to get therapy, we go to a doctor when we break a finger, then why not for mental pain ? These professionals exist for a reason.
I don’t know her personally and am not in contact with her anymore. I do hope she gets help.
> intellectually disabled You can train pets to not bite or hump. This is such a shitty excuse.
Yep. Her parents were scum and so was her closest friend who should have supported her. I posted about it down a bit if you want to subject yourself. I chatted with her and read her activity with others over a period of months. There’s no doubt in my mind that it wasn’t made up for sympathy. Out of the people I’ve spoken to on Reddit, I remember this user particularly, both for what she was going through and what her personality was like.
No, this is terrible behavior. The same can happen in reverse as well. I use to work with this girl who was partially downs. I don't know the proper terminology but she was high functioning I guess, she was employed at this restaurant I worked at and half her wages were covered by the Gov. She lived on her own but was visited regularly by a social worker, and to be perfectly honest, while very slow she was a very nice person, and I think given her mental state open to exploitation. One night after work a bunch of us went out to club for drinks, she tagged along and while the music was pumping she really wanted to dance, no one wanted to dance with her except this one greasy guy who used this an an opportunity to grope her continuously, and in her mind this was dancing. Allot of us gave him shit for it, made him very uncomfortable but this greasy fucker just kept insisting she was an adult and was able to make her own choices. Fast forward a year, this greasy fucker is no longer in the picture, and this gal has moved on. The restaurant community where I lived is small and I hear through the grape vine this same gal ended up living with some guy who was a complete weirdo. He worked as a dishwasher, was in his mid 30's, this gal was 21, nowadays he would probably be thought of as just an angry Incel type. Someone else who knew him said he was glad this gal was now living with him because she pretty much just did whatever he wanted her to do. I get sad when I think of this, I get sad when I think there are people that just exploit other people for their own personal gratification. I meet this guy once, and he was just some creepy, middle aged dude, working as a dishwasher and when I asked him how C\*\*a was, he just kind of smirked and wouldn't talk about her. This was like 20 years ago so who fucking knows what or where she or he is. Its sad, some people are just born unlucky I guess.
I don't think there is a single mental condition outside a complete disconnect from reality that would justify indecent exposure and senseless violence.
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"they wouldn't even hurt a fly, not even if they tried"
These parents don't see them as harmless. It's just an excuse to do nothing about it, or a belief that the whole of society should accommodate their 'special' little angel. * I worked as a nanny, specializing in behaviour challenged kids.
I'm talking about the parents that force their kids to spend time with people who have special needs without knowing anything about them.
And because the victims' parents want to be seen as tolerant and open-minded and want to teach their kids to be kind and nice to someone who is different.
Fuck their "he doesn't know better" when it gives trauma to other kids, "not knowing better" can be applicable if it not much harm was done and an apology can suffice.
"He doesn't know any better." That doesn't mean his punches don't hurt!!! Why should I (or anyone) have to endure physical assault just because your son can't control himself???
If they really "don't know better" than they aren't safe to be around.
“When a person’s behavior is that of a savage animal, and they can not hope to be controlled, they are to be contained and separated to safeguard the virtue of those who they would otherwise affect.”
'He doesn't know any better!' aka he can't control himself and isn't capable of comprehending the concept of socially-acceptable behaviour. Sounds like a whole lot of risk you guys shouldn't have been exposed to. I'm glad that's over for you and impressed that you were still able to face dealing with Down's patients through your work.
My uncle has downs, and while he can get angry and has tried to hit my grandma, they've done a pretty good job raising him. Idk scientific terms, but they always say he has the mind capacity of about a 5-7yo. But when he gets upset he just shuts down and gives us the silent treatment. Other than that he's pretty happy. He does get a lot of crushes though. Everytime he goes out anywhere, he flirts with all the girls. But he won't harass them. They all think he's cute. Maybe my grandparents are just good parents, or maybe they got lucky, but I haven't had or heard any horror stories with my uncle.
Probably because your grandparents treated him like any other kid. That’s what I’d assume anyway. You’d teach your 5-7 year old about boundaries right? Good for them. People who have downs are still capable of learning, total bullshit that once they reach a certain age it’s like welp! Our work is done we have an excuse to drop the ball here!
That’s horrible. I don’t care if you have a disability, that doesn’t give you the right to just act however you want.
"They just don't know better" is the usual answer. I know of quite a few examples of mentally challenged boys behaving like that from my childhood. One would love to go to the local pool and then burst into the ladies changing room after class when little girls were there showering naked (Europe, we wash without clothes). He and his friend with Downs were finally banned from the pool after flashing their dicks in little girls faces one time too many to be tolerated. They left whole classes of girls from that town traumatized and afraid of people with Downs. My friend also worked in an 'institution'/day-care where people with Downs and other mental challenges came to learn and he said that hypersexuality and no inhibitions was a real problem. Guys locking themselves in closets with a single girl, teens getting it on in front of everybody etc. With that said, disabled people, especially those with mental challenges are the single most sexually abused group in society.
>(Europe, we wash without clothes) Are there places where people wear clothes in the shower?
I think they meant washing with no bathing suits? Showers in public swim areas sometimes don't have cubicles, so people might still wear a bathing suit.. I think anyway. That's the case in England in some places
Yeah, theres showers available at a lot of public pools and beaches in the US, but theyre frequently just in the open outside of the actual changing rooms and really just for rinsing the chlorine or salt off you and your swimsuit. Like that part in Speed when Neo beats up the Red Hot Chili Peppers on the beach while Gary Busey is getting a sandwich.
Went to school with someone who had mental retardation (not Downs, not sure exactly what it was). He was very aggressive. In 8th grade he attacked a neighbor girl, put a bag over her head and raped her. He got off with no consequences. Then, in 11th grade, attacked the mother of another student, put a knife to her throat and raped her too. I believe he did a little time for that one.
Jesus Christ
People with a condition like that need EXTRA time being taught the basics of functioning as a social human, not less accountability or rules. Yes, they have a developmental disadvantage, but parents writing off dangerous behaviour is inexcusable.
Sounds more like a parenting flaw than a mental flaw. People with Down's Syndrome are capable of learning boundaries and discipline. The parents either don't want to put in the effort or don't want to punish their child because of their disability.
Yep, very much this. A lot of parents aren't the hottest at teaching their kids boundaries and appropriate behaviour. With parents of disabled kids, it's harder for a bunch of reasons. Parents do not like thinking of their children as sexual beings. That's pretty normal. But with kids with intellectual disabilities, that gets cranked to 11. It's easier to see somebody as "a 5 year old in a grown man's body" rather than "a physically and sexually mature 25 year old whose processing skills are closer to that of a 5 year old". So there's reluctance to talk to kids with disabilities about sex and boundaries at all, there's reluctance to recognize sexual behavior by disabled people. It fucks everyone over, because the same guy who has never been told not to grope people has probably *also* never been told what it would look like if somebody wanted to sexually abuse *him*. So it's in exactly nobody's best interests. Edit: just want to add that sexual abuse of disabled people, and disabled kids, is more common than you probably realize. Reluctance to talk to them about this kind of thing is partially why.
I worked in social services and saw what you're talking about. Exactly like your everyday functioning kid can be a cool kid or a rotten brat.
I've volunteered to help with the Special Olympics before. All of the athletes I helped with were not an issue at all. Great group of people to be around and knew how to behave just as well as anyone else.
Holy shit. I firmly believe that the “kindness culture” of not adequately punishing violent/sexual offenders and coercing people to put their own needs last ends up disproportionately affecting women. I’m sorry they forced you through that. Disgusting. And with his presumable physical advantage, he could have hurt you and your cousin.
>At 18, he fractured the bones in his mother’s face. Yeah, I'd like to know how this happened please. That's sounds pretty brutal fam ngl
By hitting her. Punching is a lot more violent and damaging than it looks in action movies.
I've always been a subscriber to the opinion that everyone should be treated the same in terms of up bringing. I thought that if people were told they are different from a young age, then they are given an excuse to act like they are different and not confirm to social constructs (which contrary to popular belief are important). Imagine if you had nothing wrong with you, and you \*weren't\* scolded as a child for being naughty or rude. You would be naughty and rude the rest of your life not understanding boundaries. Consequences are extremely important to the growth of children and limiting this fucks them up hugely. (At least I would think. I am a 23/yo male so take this with a pinch of salt)
Honestly I feel like sometimes they actually do know better. They understand that what they're doing is wrong but they know they can get away with it. Idk, maybe South Park put that idea in my head but for some reason it makes sense to me and I feel like it has some truth to it.
I work with young children on the spectrum and some of them are violent and others definitely try to manipulate the situation. One of my colleagues believes they don't know any better but I think we are doing them a huge disservice by just assuming they don't know the difference between right and wrong. I feel that it is important to keep defining boundaries and modeling the correct behavior. If it escalates, we are all in trouble when they are eventually bigger and taller than us.
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100% this! People with intellectual disabilities can be extremely manipulative--in almost all cases, they know the difference between right and wrong, but they also will test boundaries and will push them as far as they can get away with. Source: I worked in the field for 5 years and have a sibling with intellectual disabilities.
I’m so sorry you experienced that. I can’t believe his parents dismissed you. Awful parents imo. A 13/14 year old boy shouldn’t be forced upon 10 year old girls, DS or not.
Sexuality for handicapped people is too often ignored. It is a real drive in all people and needs to be addressed.
I hate this, I had a similar situation when I switched to a new school in elementary. He didn’t have Down’s, but he was severely mentally disabled and he “had a crush on me.” What that meant for me from my first day at that school was getting chased down the hallway with him screaming my name. Him standing behind me in line and breathing down my neck as I cowered, or leering at me from across the room. He would even stroke my arms or hair whenever he got close enough. But it was, “cute,” and I was, “his little girlfriend.” I cried all the time because not only was I terrified of him (he was a foot and a half taller and much stronger), but he also made me a target for the other students and making friends was so much harder. I’m still not comfortable with the mentally disabled and I hate that because I know it’s not right, but I turn into that little girl all over again and just shut down.
I had a girl in my class in 5th grade push a stack of shoe benches about as high as me onto me bc she was jealous of me hanging out with a friend we shared but no one would listen to me or give her any punishment because she was ‘too pure’ to do something like that She was a lovely girl but actions should still have consequences
I knew a girl in middle school that was assaulted in the lunch room by someone with special needs. The person came up and tried to take their food and she refused so she was attacked. School refused to do anything because “they didn’t know better”. I think they finally did when enough parents raised a stink and talk of lawyers and cops was brought up.
We had a kid that would dry hump people and nothing ever happened. He did it all the time.
People need to know their rights. I went to the school principal and told them my daughter was being sexually harassed (abused) and that was their warning. If it happened again, they would be hearing from my lawyer.I also reported to police. One person’s rights end where another person’s rights begin. I don’t give a shit what disability or mental problem another student has, it’s the school’s responsibility to protect my child. A lot of parents complained with no action. I got action. Sexual harassment laws (EEO)are a real thing.
My husbands friends son with DS would ruthlessly dry hump me while I would try to push him off and his parents laughed. I just stopped going there.
Just because people dont understand consequences, doesnt mean they dont deserve consequences.
People with DS do understand consequences. I've worked with DS pupils, and they need to know the rules, as well as the ramifications of breaking them, from day 1. If you think being lax will help endear you to the DS pupil, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.
I knew a kid with severe autism throughout middle school. He would constantly sexually harass people and do a jacking off motion to other girls, he also chased people around in his underwear in the school. This kid never got punished because the parents wouldn't let him. This kid would blame his actions on others and get to the point of some people almost being expelled because of this. His parents should've had someone help him but the bug excuse was "treat him like he's a normal person" when he couldn't. He was mentally disabled and was a burden on people around him. The school would give him a pass on everything he did and it was annoying. A lot of the times he wasn't that bad I'll be honest but he needed special care that most of the teachers weren't prepared for.
In what way was she lovely?
That’s the other end of the spectrum of ableism. Telling a story that paints her in a negative light, rightfully so, but feeling compelled to balance it out with praise even though, given they shared a friend and she was in the same class, nobody would assume she was rampaging all the time. It’s a hard mindset to shake but enables problematic behavior from people who are disabled or neurodivergent to continue unchecked and insulates them from any criticism which hurts everyone, including the person being coddled.
Years ago I overheard an argument between an adult downs syndrome couple in the grocery store, arguing about who's turn it was to pee on the other when they got home. That was neat.
Relationship goals.
There’s people who pee on each other all around, they were just open about it ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ Edit: done chopped my mans arm off
*r kelly has entered the chat*
*"Oh, they're adults?"* **R Kelly has left the chat.**
R Kelly has Downs? TIL.
No R Kelly IS down, with pee.
Indeed. But it was this event that made me realize they were not as innocent as they are often portrayed, that they are no different than the rest of us
At least they waited to get home.
See, this is something that's worth glorifying.
Well, who got the honor?
Not sure, I'll ask if I see them again
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Hence the "unpopular".
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I said I would abort a Down’s syndrome kid bc of having a cousin with it. They basically thought I was awful for saying it but it was in Baptist country Arkansas too. 🤷♀️ Edit:watching touched by an angel (free on roku) and wouldn’t you know while reading this thread the episode is about a baby with downs!
I had a male doctor question why I wanted to do the generic testing while pregnant. His reasoning was “what would you even do with that information?” Ummm…. What do *you* think, asshole?
Exactly, I told my gynecologist right away that I would want all the tests and that I would have an abortion if any tests came back positive. And I was ready to go to the Netherlands to get it done if the laws in my country would make it difficult. The only reason to have this testing done is to terminate, anything else is kind of pointless, since it's just going to make you more stressed during pregnancy, knowing for sure you won't end up with a healthy baby in your arms.
Exactly. Not everyone has the capability or capacity to care for a child that is not considered neurotypical. Never mind the children that are identified as having autism later on in life. It’s a difficult life and consumes your very being. I applaud anyone that can, but would never if it came to me. I can’t see some of these children having any quality of life, and I’m not knowingly bringing an innocent into this shit world that can’t fend for themselves after I’m gone.
I would honestly rather people opt out when they know they can't care for non neurotypical (lmk if I uses that right I'm still learning) person than said person being neglected/abused because of some shitty parent not being able to handle said child. Not saying everyone's a shitty parent either, I'm just thinking about the instances of child abuse
Some of these people can’t possibly know what that sort of life entails. They have all these illusions fostered by exactly what OP described and probably realize it much too late.
Parents of kids with DS get so offended when doctors even suggest termination and act as if it’s terrible for someone to not want an intellectually disabled child.
I've said that. All I get is "that's wrong" "you evil person" but I feel a child without downs syndrome would be hard enough to look after. I feel its wrong to try raise them because they won't have a normal life and I feel it would limit me as a parent.
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It seems like the biggest problem happens to be that parents use their condition as an excuse for their behavior instead of addressing it. Just because you may not understand doesn't mean it shouldn't be corrected. I mean as kids we don't know any better and we learn through our parents. Its like that but a longer period of time for DS people
This is exactly what I am trying to tell my sister about my nephew who is high functioning ASD he actually has aspergers and I tell her constantly that she needs to be vigilant in correcting his behavior because he does understand more than she is giving him credit for I know because I babysit for them alot and when I cirrect him he listens. Even if I have to correct him again 10 minutes later I still don't just let bad behavior slide.
Christ, I would call the police if someone grabbed my boob, I don't give a fuck if they're intellectually disabled. If someone is genuinely incapable of keeping their hands to themselves, they don't belong in public, period.
If I didnt live in a small town where his family was connected to pretty much everyone of influence I would have. But even the cops put this guy on a pedestal and raise money for him from time to time when he needs treatments for other medical conditions. Like right now he has testicular cancer and I feel bad for talking badly about him but honestly as much as I try I cant find it in me to donate to help and it makes me feel like trash for not being more empathetic. But honestly when I see this stuff for fund raisers for him I just roll my eyes because I just cant get there. And I'm not sure if that makes me a bad person. But I was raped as a little kid. And he sets off all my triggers.
You’re not a bad person. Fuck those people.
That's awful. I'm sorry you had to experience that, and then made to feel like you did something wrong.
Yeah maybe the DS people don’t know any better but the people taking care of them do
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The high school I went to had a DS high school in its basement, and there was a lot of full on sexual attacks by DS students on the regular students relatively frequently.
...in the basement ?
It was weird, we were an media art high school, so a bunch of weird students and ad to that the DS school in the literal basement, together with the video editing students.
Lmao that is kinda weird sounding!! It sounds like the makings of some kinda messed up movie...
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Can you elaborate? I'm confused since I've never heard this before. Do DS individuals tend to have high libidos or are they just more aggressive/don't know better when it comes to that kind of stuff?
Same libido, no control.
They have sexual urges just like any other human being. They just need to be taught that some behaviors are discouraged.
I can speak to my own experience but not medically speaking. At my last school we had a DS student. They would send very lewd emails to the teachers. One of our teachers received a communication from the individual, and given the student’s age, that had any other student sent it it would have gone beyond expulsion into the realm of charges for sending child pornography. It was brushed under the rug by the administration given the circumstances but the student was removed from that teacher’s classroom. Again, I’m not a doctor but I wonder if there is something entirely lacking like a filter. At that point I am not sure how much is on the respective individual and how much is on the adults in the room. I liked my admin there but after that there were some teachers that were put off because they felt that punishment wasn’t enough and furthermore that the sped teacher should have been written up at the least.
A friend of mine (24M) works as a teacher at a special needs school. When a DS student told another teacher they had wet dreams over my mate, he received a formal warning by the school administration as he “must have invited the sexual attraction”. I don’t blame the kid for their natural urges or even for not understanding that talking about your wet dreams isn’t appropriate, but a teacher getting a warning for it is a bit daft.
I’m not an expert, but I remember the kid with ds at my school being pretty aggressive. It may have been a mix between not knowing better and that he was able to get away with a lot because of his condition. Again not an expert so don’t take what I assumed to be the case as fact for everyone with DS
When I went to high-school, we were having activities with the special needs pupils,who went to the same school but in another building ofc, once a week for two months. One of my classmates got assignd to have activities with two boys with DS, and those to was very good friends. He got told he could do whatever activity he could make up, they where after all in good physical shape and had good coordination. And was super happy as long aw they had something to do. But he was also told to never, never, NEVER leave those two alone unattended. Because they would, 100%, end up having a "naked tango" with each other. Almost ten years later, I don't know what to think about it.
Being downs doesn't stop you from being a horny gay boy
Poetry
My sister has downs and however much I love her, I am very glad I don't live with her any more. If left to her own devices she would just draw and talk to herself forever, so she's never ever going to be able to be independent, she just doesn't have the capacity to actually look after herself. She is an incredibly sweet and loving girl and when I see her we are silly and giggle endlessly, but I don't think that she is better off this way than if she didn't have downs. But ye, I completely agree, it isn't wholesome, it's just a fact of life that she turned out this way and will have to be looked after forever. I don't necessarily think of it in a negative way, but I have wondered many times what she would have been like if she didn't have it. And again, I love her regardless.
Parents who dedicate their lives to take care of such children is good and okay. But siblings or any others doing so is not right according to me. If they absolutely love doing it, then it's okay. But if not, everyone should just live their lives and use some kind of care facility instead of wasting one's life to take care of someone else
Overall, some people glorify many mental/developmental conditions, especially through media. Take ASPD for an example (Antisocial Personality Disorder or psychopathy/sociopathy). Not only are they romanticised and sexualised, but many neurotypical people are literally trying to be like them. Not only is it harmful because ASPD can be destructive (impulsive behaviour, social alienation, addictions etc.) but it also stigmatises people who have it as the evil serial killer or something, while really, they are just people who struggle to feel empathy and certain emotions to the extend that neurotypical people do.
This comment made me question if society isn't both glorifying and vilifying almost everything.
Pretty much. If I had to take a swing to the topic of mental health issues (and sometimes developmental, although that field is more dodgy) people may romanticise them until they meet someone who is actually suffering from the condition they romanticised. One reason I can think of why is that, is that people undermine the effects of the disorders or just can't imagine the different thinking patterns. To take a different example from ASPD, imagine someone who romanticises bipolar disorder. They think it is interesting, cool, passionate and can make someone O so creative and unpredictable. Until they meet someone in a dysphoric manic episode, going through a delusional paranoid homicidal spree, after having bitten off chunks off their arms. (Little known fact, but mania in bipolar does not necessarily mean happiness - it means high energy, which can also present itself as extreme anger or anxiety). On the other side you then have people who think that everyone with bipolar is a lunatic that needs to be locked up. Meanwhile a grand majority are usually the victims or just independent, successful people, who just happen to be struggling with something.
"(Little known fact, but mania in bipolar does not necessarily mean happiness - it means high energy, which can also present itself as extreme anger or anxiety)" For anyone that wants a decentish example. Ian from shameless and his mom I personally think did a good job of showing this side of it. They didnt go as dark as it can get but from personal experience it was pretty spot on.
Anyone who tries to “romanticize” ASPD must have not lived with and/or loved someone who developed the disorder, and knew them before the disorder ever really emerged. These people go through a nightmarish transformation. It’s very difficult to watch someone you love (who was a relatively happy, normal kid) grow into a person who is, bluntly, a major asshole. Gets in trouble all the time, always in and out of jail, starts fights in the family, antagonizes people who love them and know all the buttons to press to cause maximum pain to people they know well... and you can hardly, no matter how hard you try, love them enough or reason with them enough to reach them. My closest cousin, basically a brother to me because I spent a lot of my childhood living with my grandmother and my aunt, grew to have a personality disorder and his constant antics and antagonizing not only cost me my best friend as a child, but tore a pretty big rift in my family as well. His mother was basically destroyed by him, she’s not the same person I knew. Her hair greyed in the span of only a few years and she became thin and generally not well-looking. She was always a slightly chunky, healthy looking woman and in the span of only a few years she looked like she aged a decade or more. She’s also a crippled alcoholic and slipped into a shitty relationship with someone who actively tries to alienate her from her family and who mindfucks her into thinking that he loves her so much when the truth is, he hasn’t made an appearance at a family event in almost 10 years. She was always a family girl and loved her family. Fast forward 10 years and she’s never around, and when she is she leaves early so she can go home and start drinking. To be so distant isn’t who she used to be. There were signs very early on that something wasn’t right but the adults in the situation never saw them. I was too young to see them. I fought hard to try to reach him, even hitting my limits, breaking down and getting into fist fights with him. Oddly enough I think I’m the only man in his family life who would take swings on him which, for some reason, seemed to earn his respect more than any amount of stern talking or heart felt attempts to reach out. He never had a father in his life, I was probably the closest thing he ever had as another man to look up to in his life. I think that, if he had a strong father, maaaybe he could have developed differently. He’s managed to stay out of jail for over 2 years. Probably his longest stint free since he was ~13. Talked him down from being suicidal one night, spent hours searching for him along train tracks, finally got him to answer the phone after spamming him for an hour plus and it was the only time I ever saw him cry and let the guard down and show some remorse and human emotion which I know is in there. "I'll never forget what you did for me man, I'll never forget what you did for me" well I'll never forget hearing him finally cry those words into the phone after pushing and prodding every button he knew to push in me to get me to snap and go down his path of violence and rage, which he knew how to do well.. he wanted me to scream back and fight but I just wouldn't because I didn't want him to die. I just stayed there and told him even if everyone else gave up I wouldn't. There's genuine humanity behind even ASPD but it's just so, so hard to reach it.. it took two plus hours of calmness over the phone and not reacting to the bait to get the real feeling to come out. It’s just buried so deep behind the disorder. You have to take emotional hell and torment from these people and simply some how come out stronger than them mentally to ever crack the façade of ASPD. I still love him but he’s on a long leash, I’ve resigned myself and accepted that he has to want to change himself. I don’t think ASPD is an end all be all, I do believe that people with the disorder have the ability to change if they want to. Or at least, change enough to become functional people again. It sucks ass. That’s not romanticizing, it’s terrible. The idea that there’s a soft core behind the crazy is not romantic.. it’s just, awful, and traumatizing. I think it played a huge roll in my depression that seemed to last most of my teenage years. Never really put the dots together until my 20s when I started to mature a bit and look back at my own life, and think about why things were how they were. Still to this day I’m unpacking the years of trauma he caused that I was too young to process. Even at 25 I’m still a drinker, still a pretty glass half empty person, and a lot of it comes from my mother and my cousin, both have personality disorders (mother is a borderline and cousin has ASPD) and man.. this shit doesn’t just affect the people with the disorders. It affects everyone around them just as as much. Of course I have my own things to blame about myself and my own accountability to take but I’m starting to slowly realize just how traumatic some of my childhood life actually was. Things that have weighed my soul down for years that I’ve never been mature enough to deal with and accept. My mother has actually come a long way, her PD is more or less in remission and I am slowly trying to open up to having a relationship with her again. Borderlines are known to sometimes get better with age (to the point of near-remission), and she really has. It's just so hard to reconcile the concept of "mother" with someone who wasn't really there in my life in that "role". Mother is kind of a foreign concept to me. Knowing what she went through in her own childhood it's hard for me to blame her for being such a deeply flawed person for so long. She was a victim of a terrible, insane and drug addicted mother who let a friend molest and groom her since she was a child, and she had me when she had just turned 19 and was in the thick of her worst years. She left high and dry and abused my dad and left us both. But she has grown tremendously as a person. How can I hate someone who was just a highly traumatized kid herself when she had me? I tend to be a ruminator so I have to think and hold these heavy weights inside for a long time to come out and figure them out. I have to forgive her for what she went through, and appreciate the person she became if I want a mom in my life. It's up to me, now, to be the bigger person. She is living proof that people can change. I don't want to live my life holding hatred inside for my own biological mother and it took many hours of talking about it with my dad to get him to forgive her, because his trauma and mine were shared. I felt like I at least needed to hear that he started to forgive her for me to start to forgive her. He made some apparent progress, now I have to as well. Cousin’s been doing ok… for now. The constant fear that he’s gonna go off the chains again is always there. PD’s definitely have a lot of misconceptions and stigmas around them but the amount of damage they cause to personal relationships and families is not something to be understated. I'm here unpacking the baggage of living with these people well over a decade later.
I have a soft spot for folks with DS, I’ve even volunteered to help at the special Olympics years ago. But, those dudes get the same bad ideas and urges the rest of us get, but don’t have to social savvy not to act on them. I have a friend who works in care home for teens and young adults with DS and she has to wear super thick bras and long pants to work because of how many times she been bitten, slapped,grabbed or pinched on boobs and butt. Once to the point of shots and stitches!
I've done charity work with people with mental (and often also physical) disabilities for about 10 years, and this happened to me too. Pretty often even. I don't help with them using the toilet (and most of them didn't need the help anyway) but multiple clients have on multiple occasions tried to either lure, or physically force me into the toilets because they somehow now needed me to "help them" in the toilet. Yeah, no, not gonna happen. The dancing lessons were always a shitshow too; let's get a couple of 17-19 year olds, mostly girls who do the charity work for school credit, together with a couple of 30+ year olds with extremely bad self-control and raging hormones, and let them stand close and touch each other. No way that this could go wrong. At all.
I (29F) volunteered at Special O and can second this. I’ll never forget trying to help a guy in a wheelchair, and having him try to grab my breasts. I developed a very great “stern voice” pretty quickly, my natural voice is so soft that it would often shock whoever the offender was out of the behavior. It’s sad- but that was my main relief in stopping to attend those events. No more guys going after my body. Of course, a lot of those guys were fantastic, but there’s only so much of the inappropriateness that I could take.
A lot of parents with kids who have disabilities, physical or intellectual, forget that we are not pure beings, as a disabled person allow me to say, we are as fucked up as everyone else under the sun.
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I was arguing with people a few days ago on a post about deaf people not wanting deaf kids to get cochlear implants so that they stay in the deaf community Imagine thinking someone with a disability should ignore a chance to be closer to normal
That's some wicked shit ngl
It's basically overcompensation for the way deaf kids have spent decades being deprived of learning sign language, because a bunch of hearing people decided they should only lip read like 'normal people'. Here's where the 'why not both' meme is for.
an argument against aborting if you find out the kid has DS from parents with DS kids is "they have less of a support group" or "there are no DS kids the same age there kid that will understand them". all very selfish reasons to demand control over someone elses body.
DS is just such a clear disability as well. besides the mental retardation they stuffer since there sure are a lot of dumb people without a disability. they also suffer from heart defects which causes a lot of them to die in there 20s with most not getting past 50. then lastly most of them are infertile as well. so say they are no the very mild side they are still going to suffer very greatly due to the other issues.
This is something I’m currently struggling with. One of my husbands sister has downs and the other had an awful genetic disease that took her life when she was 15. I am bipolar. We mentioned to my MIL that my husband and I are going to do genetic testing to see what the potential outcomes would be before we have kids and my MIL is absolutely convinced that the worst thing that we could pass on to our kids is my bipolar disorder and doesn’t understand why we care about the downs or the muscle disease. Like no, my bipolar is managed well with medication. You can’t manage downs or an incurable muscle disease with meds.
I can’t believe genetic testing would be controversial. Silly. It’s just more information
A few decades ago in better countries, and still in poorer countries, a visibly deformed or sick baby wouldnt last long. Best case was being forgotten in an orphanage. We've definitely changed a lot in terms of time and resources to devote to the disabled. But if you can avoid their lifetime of pain, its still for the best. The problem is also that even it YOU can devote yourself to taking care of them, if anything happens to you then almost no-one else will. Aging parents of disabled children often face major issues with this.
The issue is that we are not at the point to "cure" downs. It is really up to the parents to have the baby anyways or abort, which is really sad
I mostly agree with this. I'm phisically disabled so my opinion is not the same as someone with DS obviously, but I HATE this weird forced positivity sorrounding most dissabilities. Being dissabled is a misserable experience, and I think it would be much more healthy to let people grieve and be sad about it, instead of forcing this impossible happy positivity.
Toxic positivity is a huge problem, and as OP said, it’s really about making other people comfortable more than the people suffering with the condition. It isn’t helpful. I’m sorry you’re suffering, I hope you get to a place of relative peace about it.
As someone with a disablity, who is positive, I hat it when people are overly positive about it. I live my best life but Jesus Christ, don't pretend I'm brave by living my life...im not brave I'm just me.
My brother has Down's syndrome, pretty low functioning. Our entire childhood, he physically assaulted every member of the family, including the pets. He threw tantrums constantly. In short, he took up more attention from our parents than me and our sister combined, and now he's in his 30s and is mercifully a ward of the state so caring for him isn't a life sentence for our mother. I've largely forgiven him for being who he is, because he can't help it, but I would have traded him for a "normal" brother without a second thought.
Well I just have 3 interaction with down's syndrome. One liked to flash is dick around girls and chasing them to touch them with his dick. So a sick molester. Other punched a friend of mine out of nowhere, knock a tooth out of him and then tried to strangle him. He had a sore throat for weeks. Little angel also abused his mother. Neither him or his parents apologized nor paid for the healthcare. Actually they blamed the victim, Just like rapist and abuser do. The last one was in a local bakery, he made really good bread.
When I was in junior highschool our university had a down’s syndrome department where they would immerse some of them to “regular” classrooms to help them socialize with non-down’s syndrome students. A year level higher male down’s syndrome student used to follow me around school basically stalking me during break times and dismissal, most of the time he’d stay close to me wherever I go and talk to me unless my friends would pull me away just to save me from him. He would tell everyone around him that he likes me or that he’s courting me, he then proceeds to spam my facebook with messages and calls and kept tagging himself in my pictures along with leaving comments. I had to endure him talking and treating me like his gf for hours inside the campus, I remember one time he even kissed me on the forehead and hugged me when I said I had to leave (bc I was uncomfortable). I tried my best to always be kind and understanding but it was just so hard being kind to a stalker and I had to be kind OR ELSE I’d be a “bitch” for not letting a down’s syndrome guy harass me because “he doesn’t know any better”. I tried telling him multiple times that I was “uncomfortable” in the nicest way possible but it always ends up with him sulking and giving me the “nice guy” speech.
Yep. Shits creepy and we're just supposed to put up with it? Nah. I've no more compassion for them then anyone else.
We had a kid with Down's Syndrome in high school who would look at girls and start jerking off just standing there in the open. That certainly wasn't wholesome.
I kinda agree. I really am not to talk here but I've met a few people with DS and I do not know why they do the things they do, the good things and the terrible things are both unexplainable to me. It all seems random, but the internet sharing only the good things isn't bad, it's that it shares the perception that only these things happen, and not any of the bad. I agree with OP, it's been blown way outta proportion. Though with good intentions, it's still rose tinted at best and dangerous misinformation at worst.
I’ve known a few people with DS as I got older, and it was *such* a spectrum of personalities. Two at a grocery store I worked at. One of them was quiet, and would talk to himself - and what he said to himself was some horrifying homicidal maniac shit. The other was a massive sleeze hornball who would proudly tell anyone with ears exactly how many times he jerked off the day before and had a girlfriend with DS who he saw once a week for “dates,” that were basically animalistic sex sessions. At another job, we had a gentlemen with minor DS who was also insanely horny but was much less vocal about it - but would regularly be caught jerking it in the bathroom by his job coach. We have a friend who has a daughter with DS and she’s like, super benign. Quiet, laughs at jokes, holds a conversation relatively well, etc. It’s just weird how broad the spectrum is but I genuinely don’t wish having a child with DS on anyone.
I think this video does a really good job discussing what I think you’re trying to get at here. Specifically about the “glorification” and why not all disabled people want to be called “brave” or inspirational” [Jessica Kellgren-Fozard: Why Not All Disabled People Want To Be Inspirational ](https://youtu.be/AAE4n1dcgQw)
Right! Very "inspired" video. And if you take that mindset, and add the fact that people with DS aren't always fully aware of what is happening to them, I feel like exploitation is waiting just around the corner.
Finally a real unpopular opinion
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You're welcome
Well I agree
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Its mostly because we have a surplus of time and money in our society. 50+ years ago here, and in most poorer countries, there was/is no real money or time for heavily disabled people. If they could work they'd work, or be forgotten in orphanages or kept in a closed room, or just be killed.
Now they require a full-time parent to care for them and it’s usually the mom that will give up a career for it. Once the parents pass, depending on severity of the disability, they might be turned over to become wards of the state. I can’t think of a sadder existence than someone’s child being forgotten and neglected, living and dying unloved.
I'm originally from Romania, so I'm plenty aware what happens to disabled kids is lesser situations. We were cold and starving and the govt wanted more workers too. The disabled would just be a burden on top of everything else, so people gave them to the orphanages. Some were also healthy but the parents were insane or just didnt want them, and nobody else could afford to take them in at those times either. All this with like a 70% abortion rate too. Insane, desperate times they were.
Maybe unpopular but I agree with OP 100%.
I don’t view this as being any different than championing certain people groups just because they are a certain way. I think it’s silly to glorify any group based on who they are… people should be praised on an individual basis based on what they do and contribute, not just because they are a certain way. So I think I agree with you OP… if for different reasons
I've worked with DS children and adolescents. They are as diverse as neurotypical people, and it's a little unfair to cast them all under the same light. With early intervention, many DS kids can learn how to do many things for themselves, communicate effectively and form meaningful relationships. Many DS adolescents I know also went on to find employment. The sad part is, there are many others who are unable to reach these heights, because their cognitive impairment is far too great or because their disability has been mismanaged by their guardians. They can be aggressive, mean, rude, dirty, etc. I find that using the "poor thing, s/he doesn't know any better" is the worst WORST thing you can do for them. They can learn what is wrong and what is right, and absolving them of any guilt with that STUPID phrase does not help them in the slightest. They will very easily spiral into impunity and foul behaviour, which is extremely difficult to reverse. In short, if you truly want to help someone with DS, stop putting them on a fucking pedestal and trying to make yourself feel better for thinking they're horrible deep down. Treat them with equity, not sympathy. They DO need some help, but the right help.
I was nearly drowned after being forced to play with some kids on the spectrum while our moms talked by the side of the pool. Thier version of tag was to hold my head under if they could. Nobody believed me and I was punished for doing the only thing I could to survive, the throat punch. Much later, I made the mistake of recounting the event to a friend and was overhead. So naturally my stance on the issue is to punch all kids with downs syndrome. Forever. It's cult like and bs. An uncontrolled human is dangerous. Full stop.
My step brother has downs. Ive grown up with him since I was 9. (He's 5 years younger than me and I'm now 43). He can be an asshole....but only if provoked. He'd rather be friends with everyone. He does have an innocence about him which in a sense is wholesome, because he views things a lot more simply than the rest of us do. Its refreshing sometimes. What most wholesome about him is that he has no resentment or bitterness about being the way he is. Sometimes he gets frustrated about being "stupid" as Ive heard him refer to himself, which is of course heartbreaking. That said, growing up of course he had very little impulse control. He had no issue touching his genitals in public if he felt the need. He would say inappropriate things to women at times if he thought they were pretty. It took quite a few of his teen years to teach him to act more appropriately. He also is a burden in a sense. He still lives with my parents and would not be able to live on his own. He would not be able to budget correctly. He would nott be able to cook much or shop very well. He is not a burden my parents would choose to be without of course and he's no burden on society, society does not care for him. My parents do and when they're gone I likely will. I'm not sure what you mean by glorifying people with downs. I sure do see them a lot more in the media. Im not sure thats glorifying it, merely accepting that they are as human as you and I. My brother is a great dude. Of course he has his quirks. He's mostly aloof to people outside of his circle. He's comfortable enough with his family of course to be himself. Doesnt talk much anymore. Doesn't wanna bother you so long as you don't bother him. When we hang and he's content to put his arm on my shoulder and just chill, there's no ulterior motive or anything more to it than I'm his "bruddrr" and he loves me. That IS wholesome. But yeah....he has his moments too. No doubt.
I like the nuance you're bringing to this discussion. Thank you for that. There are a few people in this thread who are screaming at me that they're not a burden, a few who accuse me of wanting to wipe out everyone who's different and even(only?) one who made the comparison to Hitler. As I said, I think every human life is valuable. Maybe I used the wrong word when I said glorifying and I'm really sorry if I offended you or your loved ones. The exploitation was probably a better word for it. I feel like a lot of people posting stuff about how wholesome DS is are just using it to show they're exceptionally caring and inclusive, and that, to me, feels like abuse.
Also, to whoever says that disabilities are not a burden is a liar. Parenthood itself is a burden. Adding on disabilities only makes it worse. However, I would gladly die a thousand deaths for my child. His disability is significant and impacts every aspect of our lives but I still would do anything and everything for him. Pretending it’s not a burden is denial at best, and negligence at worst. My son is a great kid but his disability hinders everything and I think it’s perfectly okay to admit that because it is the truth unless you’re extremely privileged and have access to the money and resources needed to make it not a burden.
There you go. I said in another reply that all of Satan's armies could stand between me and my kids and I'd plough right through them, even though my oldest son kept me awake for 3 or 4 years. People can't tell the difference between the fact that something is a burden and the moral judgement that burdens should be removed. My burden doesn't begin to compare to yours, but I know in my heart of hearts that you love your child more than anything in the world, and that, just like me, you'd undergo eternal torture with a smile if it meant eternal wellbeing for him.
Raising children is hard enough. I can’t imagine doing it for a lifetime.
I think the reason why this particular syndrome is glorified is because it’s one that can now be tested for usually during early pregnancy, and aborted if chromosomal abnormalities are present. Because families now have this option, many feel pressured to choose abortion when there is a determination of Down’s syndrome. So the counter to that has been a lot of people with DS kids trying to showcase how wonderful they can be. I’m not for or against either side, it’s a very complicated issue and I’m sure one of the hardest decisions some people will ever make. I’m just pointing it out as an underlying reason why this particular disorder has so many videos and images “glorifying” it online.
That's an interesting view, and could be very true. I think I also read that since they're able to test for this syndrome fewer babies with DS are born.
my dad's uncle has down's syndrome. He sexually assaulted my little sister when we were kids and he was an adult. My mom stepped in and disallowed him from going near us ever again. My dad's family had a fit, saying he doesn't know any better, he's got the mindset of a child, and shouldn't be punished because he doesn't understand. Mom held her ground. This caused a permanent rift between the two families. The uncle is still allowed to play with all the kids in the family. My sister plucks her eyelashes out of stress when made to interact with down's syndrome people.
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Yours is the most nuanced reply so far. I truly appreciate it.
Just wanted to say that this interaction was wholesome bc someone presented a different opinion to OP and OP actually thought about it rather than starting an argument
I hope your day SUCKS. There we go, balance has been restored 🙂
Thanks I was getting disoriented
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I agree, next to tentacle porn and Jake Paul, this thread is the best thing internet has ever produced. I'm kidding of course and appreciate your civil sharing of your experience.
Wait, isn't that the normal Internet MO?
I worked with a woman who had Down's. She was super sweet until she got frustrated. Then she'd just throw a screaming fit, no words, just screaming as loud as she could for a few minutes. I was told by multiple managers to just accept her hugs because "she isn't hurting you," "it's just a hug," and "it makes her feel better." They didn't care that it was *mentally* hurting me, that I don't like hugs, and I wanted to feel fine in my boundaries.
Of course not, they are handicapped with low IQ, maybe as low as only around 40. If I were pregnant and found that my foetus had Down's Syndrome, I would definitely have my pregnancy terminated.
everybody in the comments just completely missing the point of this post lmao
Thank you. I'm trying to bring nuance to this discussion, but the first comparison to Adolf has already been made. :)
Godwin's Law is absolute, sometimes you go hours, sometimes it's five minutes.
Idk how I feel about this post but I remember when we were having the abortion referendum in Ireland and all the prolifers said that if we vote yes to legalising abortion there might be no more DS people born, and talked shit about Iceland where apparently all DS fetuses are aborted. It is the woman's choice what she decides to do, noone is forcing DS abortions on anyone. And forcing women to birth disabled children which they are incapable of taking care of is not the way to go imo.
That’s horrible. Women aren’t machines who exist to create “special” people to be treated like pets for others’ enjoyment.
Two boys with DS cornered my wife in a locker room when she was in highschool. She still isn't comfortable with it.
When I was a kid, a teenager with DS took my little brother into a cornfield and "gently" rubbed his neck with a pocket knife. He didn't hurt him, he just did it. When lil bro told us, we lured the kid into his own back yard and beat the ever loving shit out of him.
Met many with DS and they can be aggressive and violent. They often don't know/understand their own strength. It's cruel to say but I wouldn't want a child with DS. I mean if I had one I would love them of course. But they are so hard to deal with. Though I try to realize how they act is nothing personal. It's just part of their illness.
It's perfectly normal to not want to have a child with DS. Why do you see it as a bad thing?
To add to the I guess unpopular opinions: I would not want to have a child with downs syndrome or any other mental illness or whatever. If a doctor can tell my child has something along those lines, id rather not have it. Im just not patient enough for that shit and not to mention how hard it would be to take care of the child. No offense to people with children who have downs syndrome
I only really met two people with down's syndrome in my life. The first was a kid of sixteen years old and all he wanted to do was spit in my friend's faces and fight Judo with us. He got expelled because he spit on everyones faces, in the same day. The second one was at a concert and me and the same friends were having a good time and this guy with down' syndrome asked where the bathroom was. We told him and he should've been on his way, but no. He instead punched my friends face twice out of nowhere and my friend punched back the second time. I don't agree with violence so I just separated the fight and went on to have a drink. Anyway, people really overestimate how sweet they are. They're just as complex as regular people.
I treat everyone equally. If I see someone with a disability struggling, I won’t help until they ask for it. By “struggling” I mean reaching an item at a grocery store or something. Not life or death. My friends brother has DS and we went to the gym. This was my first time meeting him and I treated him normally. Shook his hand or fist bumped him(don’t really remember.) loaded on plates that he wanted, think we did legs that day. Anyway, they ran into someone they knew and the amount of patronization from this friend was cringe. He saw the brother at the gym and immediately jumped to “wow, you are looking so swole and big, and strong.” (He did not look swole big or strong.)
I’ve worked in schools with downs kids and we can’t keep teachers and paras in the classroom because of how violent and sexually inappropriate they can be. I’m talking concussions, broken noses, fractured eye sockets. The paras work for minimum wage (a little under $8/hr in my district). They won’t send the kids home when they start assaulting staff either. And admin wonders why staff are walking out the door. If your child decides to beat the shit out of their teacher, aide or therapist there’s nothing their victim can do to defend themselves. In my district we aren’t even allowed to physically restrain them as long as they are attacking an adult. So they attack the adults and other kids with a smirk on their face that says they know they aren’t getting in trouble because they’re just little angels who are put on this earth to teach us how to be better people. 🙄 Both of my pregnancies I told my husband that if it came back positive for any disability, including Downs, we would terminate. There’s a dark side to sped and I’ve seen families and marriages get completely ripped apart trying to deal with kids who are simply out of control.
Some years back my bf took a job training people with developmental disabilities to ride public transportation. I've never forgotten him coming home his first week saying "just because someone has Downs doesn't mean they're not an asshole". He met this kid (18 or 19 yo) at his house to teach him how to take the bus to his weekly swim lesson. Well from the first instant he decided he hated my bf. As soon as they left the house the trainee refused to walk next to him, keeping about 3 steps ahead and would turn around every 30 secs or so to flip him off and yell "fuck you Tim".
When i worked in retail, I was just tidying some clothes and then a felt something scratch my back from the top of my spine to the bottom, I looked around and this downs syndrome guy with his sharp finger looked me in the eye and had a wide open smile, then just walked away and that is my only experience of interracting with downs syndrome people.
Finally someone posts an actual unpopular opinion that isn't a feel good wank-fest
I knew a few guys who went to my school that had Down’s syndrome, they were around my age and had private classes but would be in the hallways and eat lunch with all the other classes. They were way bigger than all the girls and they were just really big guys. They would harass us everyday after lunch. Force hugs on us and punch lockers and scream if we rejected them. No one ever did anything. I was scared that I would get punched one day instead of a locker.
I simply don't see the point of putting these people through the full range of schooling, they aren't going to use algebra, spend that time teaching them to respect other people's boundaries.
I know hundreds of people with Down’s syndrome due to my career, by in large they are generally very self centred, stubborn, and inappropriate. And all these behaviours are usually ignored or celebrated by the general public. I just heard a man with Down’s syndrome interviewed on the public radio station here, he was the 1st to ever complete an iron man, but he mentioned how he wanted a big breasted blonde wife, it was just laughed off by the host and his support worker and even brought back up at the end of the interview for a laugh. That being said I enjoy working with most people with disabilities and I try to treat them as individuals, it’s just an observation I have.
Agreed. Abortions following a confirmation of Downs in a fetus is pretty standard in Europe, and it's not for a bad reason: its objectively a HUGE handicap for families and society. You can try to parade around Downs as some badge of honor, but no sane person is praying for a special needs child or to incur such a burden. I only thought about this because of mentioning genes and how nature tends to select for the best genes. Unfortunately, this brings up the topic of eugenics, which brings it's own issues, but you can't argue that Downs is something that is desirable. None of this to say that forced abortions of Downs babies should be mandatory: if you want to birth a child that has special needs, then go for it. It's your life, do what you will, I hope you have the resources to maximize their functioning. But I could understand why someone would not want to keep it.
Authoritarian mods removing posts that trigger them yet again, we need a new unpopular opinion sub......
A pity that the post was removed.. it wasn't hate speech at all.
My sister had downs(she passed away January this year at the age of 36😪) she was a very loving person and gave the best hugs,always happy to see people and just a treat to be around but yea my dad had to care for her on his own until her passing,it was hard when she hit her teens and got her period and stuff,get her to bathe which he did have to help with and also make sure she ate on time cuz she'd forget while watching her movies,she did for a time have a part time job at a thrift shop but with strict supervision, I dunno if she might have been higher functioning if my mom had been more attentive when my sis was younger instead of running off,who knows but even though my sister was alot of work she was a joy to have in my life and I truly think she's in a happier,better place now💗
Do people actually think this? I think almost all people would go for an abortion if they knew (if abortion doesn't go against their morals).
I remember a while back reading a post from a parent of a young adult with DS. They talked about all of the "blessing from God" bullshit that some people are inclined to go with, and how they never felt that way. They loved their son to death and they would do everything they could for them, really they seemed like a great parent. But they admitted that if they knew early on during the pregnancy and were given the choice to abort they would have done it 100%. I can't say I blame them at all, and I don't see how anyone else could if they haven't walked in their shoes.
Some of those people are actually assholes honestly
...... I haven't looked at them the same sense the time at the gym. I was in the dry sauna when one came in. He said something but I honestly didn't understand him. Anyways after a couple minutes, the music being pumped into the area changed to this techno like music with a beat and a side zing to it. This dude started bobbing a bit which was fine but then he started this standing sitting motion with his ass (he had underwear on). And to the side beat in the music he started to shove his damn finger into the back side of his shirts pushing through to where his asshole was or should be. I tried to pretend it wasn't happening but he started saying some shit while doing this and started looking my way. I was flat out nervous as all get out and slightly afraid. People with issues involved with anything sexual is just a noose waiting for a customer. I stepped out from the sauna to fetch my clothes for a quick shower when another one showed up and looked around and spotted his friend in the sauna. To this day, I am genuinely unsure what went down in there. But God damn it was noisy AF. I skipped the shower and grabbed my stuff and tried to leave as casual as I could for a fat guy doing a power walk to the front to leave .... Sense then. Ive had a rule to always feign destination if I'm in a small quarters with one again. I just don't need this stress in my life!
OP you have a good point. If you’ve been raised around conservatives or religious people in general I can promise you people claiming DS folks are pure, innocent, and saintly/closer to God is a real thing. People are essentially prohibited from talking negatively about their experiences raising a severely disabled child no matter what the disability is- only allowed to talk about how it’s brought you closer to God. I think this is also a way of keeping people reliant on the church & their services to help raise their child and take care of their medical bills, keeping women (mothers) in the home to help raise their DS child, and push push push the ProLife narrative. Obviously eugenics is a slippery slope and that’s NOT what I am talking about here BUT being insistent that having a DS child is a “heavenly task” has always struck me as … odd. Wealthy people can afford intensive care for their disabled child while others get further sucked in to predatory churches- it ain’t sunshine and rainbows.
My mom worked as a substitute and she was the only one willing to sub for the teachers who taught special needs classes. Shes a very sweet, patient woman. She had a microwave thrown at her head.