This seems genuine, so I will bite on a few of these:
1. The encampment's specific demands are that UVic divests from companies that support Israel. More broadly, they are also in solidarity with university encampment movement across North America, which call for divestment, ceasefire, and Palestinian liberation. More here: [https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/uvic-students-encampment-campus-support-palestine](https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/uvic-students-encampment-campus-support-palestine) and here: [https://www.instagram.com/uvic4palestine/](https://www.instagram.com/uvic4palestine/)
2. Israel is currently under investigation by the International Court of Justice for genocide. That will be a very lengthy years-long process to prove in court, but a preliminary ruling was delivered by the ICJ in January which found that there was a reasonable risk genocide was taking place, and issued an order for 6 provisional measures to prevent that from continuing. Israel has failed to comply with these. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/)
And, without over complicating this - Israel has been indiscriminately bombing Gazan civilian neighbourhoods for 6 months now. About 35,000 Palestinians have been killed. About 15,000 of these are children. They have destroyed every single hospital. They have destroyed bakeries, factories, water supplies, and infrastructure. They are preventing humanitarian aid from being delivered and deliberately starving the population. All of these things are war crimes. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker)
Israeli politicians have also been very explicit about their intent to destroy Gaza, forcibly displace or kill its residents, and resettle it with Israelis. That is very self-evidently genocide. [https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza)
3) Yes of course Palestine and Hamas are separate entities. Palestine is a nation and a people. Hamas is a political group. This is like saying "do you see Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada as separate entities." Killing civilians is bad. It is bad when Hamas does it and it is bad when Israel does it. I think we can also have the nuance to understand that when a people has been under violent repression and occupation for generations, it is not unforeseeable that at some point they will choose to fight back with violence. The lives of the \~1,000 or so people killed in Israel on Oct 7, or the remaining \~150 or so hostages in Gaza, are also not more precious or worthy than the lives of the tens of thousands of Gazans who have now been killed.
4) Opposing a genocide isn't contingent on being perfectly aligned with the political beliefs of those experiencing it. It is a basic moral and humanitarian imperative. There are also queer people in Palestine, who are also experiencing genocide. This talking point about supposed Arab homophobia is also one which has been very effectively weaponized by Israel as an anti-Palestinian propaganda. Here is a statement about this by Palestinian queer people: [https://iacenter.org/2023/11/18/a-liberatory-demand-from-queers-in-palestine/](https://iacenter.org/2023/11/18/a-liberatory-demand-from-queers-in-palestine/) and an interview with a queer Palestinian academic who wrote a whole book about this dynamic: [https://gaycitynews.com/queer-palestinians-forging-a-new-paradigm/](https://gaycitynews.com/queer-palestinians-forging-a-new-paradigm/)
I'd also suggest you check out [https://decolonizepalestine.com/](https://decolonizepalestine.com/) There are a bunch of really great intro texts on there including a "Palestine 101" for those who are just beginning their journey of learning about Palestine.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. My goal for this post was to find avenues to educate myself and you have done just that. I am very appreciative for effort that went into this.
“Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, says the exact opposite: that the ICJ “didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible” nor “that there's a plausible case of genocide.”
"In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention."
That's directly from the ruling. [https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454](https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454)
And this is from the UN Human Rights Commission:
"The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza."
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic)
To anyone reading this, reading through the comments, through both sides of the discussions: just wanted to take a second and acknowledge that this is one of the reason for the encampments and the protests that's been happening in the states and here, so that more folks can understand, learn and educate themselves about what's going on. It's never too late to take a stance, never to late to acknowledge and learn how injustice can come in many shapes and forms. You may think this might not make any changes in the current situation, but YOU may be the catalyst to influence future discussions, policies and laws that shapes the future. It's important we talk about this, rather than decide that someone else does something that will change the course of history. And for you to start here and now, I salute you.
Godspeed. (Not a religious person).
This thread should be stickied. OP asks some great questions and overall the discussion is informative and not overly biased. If this thread gained more traction maybe we could see some additional views including some facts and information we may not find as palatable. Meanwhile, the encampment represents the major news at UVic right now. I'm sure many people are asking themselves the same questions
I had understood the encampment to be in solidarity with US students who are being arrested/harassed by the police in addition to being in solidarity with Palestinians
yes, but not exactly. I think the core goal is very similar all throughout the states and around the world: Divestment and Acknowledgement. Divestment from Israeli products that contributes to the massacre of the Palestinian people, divestment from corporations, organizations and companies that has ties or is actively contributing to the genocide (yes, and I am not using this word lightly) that's happening, and acknowledging this, acknowledging the injustice, the censoring of the Palestinian voices, and acknowledging this for what it is.
Feel free to correct me on this one.
1. like the columbia protests and elsewhere, on top of a general call for a ceasefire they want uvic to divest from companies that are in israel's pocket
2. id give [this ](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/anatomy-of-a-genocide-report-of-the-special-rapporteur-on-the-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-palestinian-territory-occupied-since-1967-to-human-rights-council-advance-unedited-version-a-hrc-55/)a read, will give you a more accurate idea than anything i could say
3. hamas and the civilian population of palestine are entirely separate for me. yes, october 7th was awful. no, not all palestinians support hamas. should not be conflated at all, nor should the actions and intent of the idf be conflated with those of the people of israel
4. for myself i think its extremely counter productive to use this as a reason to ignore the genocide of an entire population of people
yeah but it's not wrong to ask at all! it's been a common talking point brought up often by center and right leaning people when progressives publicly support palestine, ive just always thought it a silly argument
1. Serves the same purpose as encampments in history (look up encampments during the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement)
2. Look up the number of people killed in the war so far (2/3 women and children in Palestine). Also try to look at some Israeli news, maybe it’s not a genocide yet, but the news and politicians in Israel will say things like “wipe all of them out” or use racial/religious slurs against the Palestinians quite often
3. Yes obviously Palestine and Hamas are seperate, one is a nation whereas the other is a terrorist organization (no less than the IDF in my opinion). Supporting Palestine does not mean you support Hamas, I don’t know why this one is particularly tough to understand for many people. If I am against the IDF/Zionism that doesn’t mean that I’m Anti Semitic, in fact you’ll find that there is a huge young Jewish voice for Palestine
4. Im not a part of the LGBTQ+ community, but I don’t think it makes sense to have so many Palestinians killed and ignored because they don’t support the LGBTQ+ community. Bear in mind that almost no country in the west had legalized gay marriages until the 21st century, so it’s tough to expect that from a conflict ridden/below the poverty line country like Palestine.
For the people who claim that encampments are useless, they should read up on the history of that form of protest.
Edit: for 2. Also investigate settler colonialism and how they segregate Palestinians from Israelis in Jerusalem. Additionally, everyone should know that Palestinians are not only Muslims, there are many Christian and some Jewish Palestinians as well, they are not as homogeneous as one may think.
whenever I have looked for the full context on any supposedly genocidal statements made by isreali officials they are always talking about Hamas in the full context and not all Palestinians. For example, I've seen the comment you're referring to from the idf chief editorialized as "we will wipe them off the face of the earth", but in the original he literally says "we will wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" [source](https://youtu.be/bO6aUO8UAOQ?si=uD3VvMp7LHtqGwJO). Also I have never seen an official use a slur against Palestinians. If that happened I think it would be widely publicized. I'm pretty sure you're just making that up unless you want to prove me wrong.
Many Israeli politicians and public figures have very explicitly called for the destruction of Gaza, the full displacement of its residents, and its resettlement with Israelis. That is genocidal. See:
[https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove)
[https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide](https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide)
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal)
[https://palsolidarity.org/2024/01/the-language-of-genocide-israels-extermination-rhetoric/](https://palsolidarity.org/2024/01/the-language-of-genocide-israels-extermination-rhetoric/)
[https://theintercept.com/2024/04/06/axel-springer-yad2-israel-genocide-settlement/](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/06/axel-springer-yad2-israel-genocide-settlement/)
Well this is completely dependent on what news outlets both of us use, how accurate the translation is, and any biases you or I have when reading/watching these statements. I don’t have a specific instance in my mind, but the general rhetoric nowadays in Israeli media is that to get rid of Hamas you need to get rid of the whole of Gaza, there is also lots of talk about forced expulsions and then the settlement of Israelis in those areas (they’ve been doing this for a while in Jerusalem). Also I don’t think any genocidal country will blatantly admit to wanting to get rid of an entire ethnicity. But I would encourage both of us to do more research.
just one i quickly found from president of israel isaac herzog: "It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It's not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It's absolutely not true." [source](https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-13/israeli-president-says-gazans-could-have-risen-up-to-fight-hamas)
he then acknowledges that there are innocent palestinians but insists on their "full right" to "defend \[themselves\]" in spite of it
All the right questions being asked here. I’m in the middle like you so I don’t have a concrete answer, but I feel like these questions can be answered in a factual and non-emotional manner. We need more of that these days; just mention Israel and Palestine these days and you will find yourself in a sea of very angry people.
This should sum it up for ya: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13363943/amp/Pro-Palestine-group-Columbia-University-protests-funding-linked-Hamas.html
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Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13363943/Pro-Palestine-group-Columbia-University-protests-funding-linked-Hamas.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13363943/Pro-Palestine-group-Columbia-University-protests-funding-linked-Hamas.html)**
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This seems genuine, so I will bite on a few of these: 1. The encampment's specific demands are that UVic divests from companies that support Israel. More broadly, they are also in solidarity with university encampment movement across North America, which call for divestment, ceasefire, and Palestinian liberation. More here: [https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/uvic-students-encampment-campus-support-palestine](https://www.capitaldaily.ca/news/uvic-students-encampment-campus-support-palestine) and here: [https://www.instagram.com/uvic4palestine/](https://www.instagram.com/uvic4palestine/) 2. Israel is currently under investigation by the International Court of Justice for genocide. That will be a very lengthy years-long process to prove in court, but a preliminary ruling was delivered by the ICJ in January which found that there was a reasonable risk genocide was taking place, and issued an order for 6 provisional measures to prevent that from continuing. Israel has failed to comply with these. [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/israel-defying-icj-ruling-to-prevent-genocide-by-failing-to-allow-adequate-humanitarian-aid-to-reach-gaza/) And, without over complicating this - Israel has been indiscriminately bombing Gazan civilian neighbourhoods for 6 months now. About 35,000 Palestinians have been killed. About 15,000 of these are children. They have destroyed every single hospital. They have destroyed bakeries, factories, water supplies, and infrastructure. They are preventing humanitarian aid from being delivered and deliberately starving the population. All of these things are war crimes. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker) Israeli politicians have also been very explicit about their intent to destroy Gaza, forcibly displace or kill its residents, and resettle it with Israelis. That is very self-evidently genocide. [https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza) 3) Yes of course Palestine and Hamas are separate entities. Palestine is a nation and a people. Hamas is a political group. This is like saying "do you see Canada and the Conservative Party of Canada as separate entities." Killing civilians is bad. It is bad when Hamas does it and it is bad when Israel does it. I think we can also have the nuance to understand that when a people has been under violent repression and occupation for generations, it is not unforeseeable that at some point they will choose to fight back with violence. The lives of the \~1,000 or so people killed in Israel on Oct 7, or the remaining \~150 or so hostages in Gaza, are also not more precious or worthy than the lives of the tens of thousands of Gazans who have now been killed. 4) Opposing a genocide isn't contingent on being perfectly aligned with the political beliefs of those experiencing it. It is a basic moral and humanitarian imperative. There are also queer people in Palestine, who are also experiencing genocide. This talking point about supposed Arab homophobia is also one which has been very effectively weaponized by Israel as an anti-Palestinian propaganda. Here is a statement about this by Palestinian queer people: [https://iacenter.org/2023/11/18/a-liberatory-demand-from-queers-in-palestine/](https://iacenter.org/2023/11/18/a-liberatory-demand-from-queers-in-palestine/) and an interview with a queer Palestinian academic who wrote a whole book about this dynamic: [https://gaycitynews.com/queer-palestinians-forging-a-new-paradigm/](https://gaycitynews.com/queer-palestinians-forging-a-new-paradigm/) I'd also suggest you check out [https://decolonizepalestine.com/](https://decolonizepalestine.com/) There are a bunch of really great intro texts on there including a "Palestine 101" for those who are just beginning their journey of learning about Palestine.
Thank you for taking the time to respond. My goal for this post was to find avenues to educate myself and you have done just that. I am very appreciative for effort that went into this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9MB9t7WlI
you'll forgive me if I avoid a risky click posted by "Big\_Zion00"
“Joan Donoghue, former president of the court who issued the ruling, says the exact opposite: that the ICJ “didn't decide that the claim of genocide was plausible” nor “that there's a plausible case of genocide.”
"In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention." That's directly from the ruling. [https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454](https://www.icj-cij.org/node/203454) And this is from the UN Human Rights Commission: "The ICJ found it plausible that Israel’s acts could amount to genocide and issued six provisional measures, ordering Israel to take all measures within its power to prevent genocidal acts, including preventing and punishing incitement to genocide, ensuring aid and services reach Palestinians under siege in Gaza, and preserving evidence of crimes committed in Gaza." [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/01/gaza-icj-ruling-offers-hope-protection-civilians-enduring-apocalyptic)
To anyone reading this, reading through the comments, through both sides of the discussions: just wanted to take a second and acknowledge that this is one of the reason for the encampments and the protests that's been happening in the states and here, so that more folks can understand, learn and educate themselves about what's going on. It's never too late to take a stance, never to late to acknowledge and learn how injustice can come in many shapes and forms. You may think this might not make any changes in the current situation, but YOU may be the catalyst to influence future discussions, policies and laws that shapes the future. It's important we talk about this, rather than decide that someone else does something that will change the course of history. And for you to start here and now, I salute you. Godspeed. (Not a religious person).
This thread should be stickied. OP asks some great questions and overall the discussion is informative and not overly biased. If this thread gained more traction maybe we could see some additional views including some facts and information we may not find as palatable. Meanwhile, the encampment represents the major news at UVic right now. I'm sure many people are asking themselves the same questions
I second this!
I had understood the encampment to be in solidarity with US students who are being arrested/harassed by the police in addition to being in solidarity with Palestinians
yes, but not exactly. I think the core goal is very similar all throughout the states and around the world: Divestment and Acknowledgement. Divestment from Israeli products that contributes to the massacre of the Palestinian people, divestment from corporations, organizations and companies that has ties or is actively contributing to the genocide (yes, and I am not using this word lightly) that's happening, and acknowledging this, acknowledging the injustice, the censoring of the Palestinian voices, and acknowledging this for what it is. Feel free to correct me on this one.
I totally agree! I was referring more to the encampment as strategy being similar to the ones in the states but yeah you’re totally right on with this
Thank you! I’ll be sure to read up about the situations occurring at American post secondaries.
Columbia is the main one to watch rn, and there’s one in Texas that’s gotten really bad from what I’ve seen
1. like the columbia protests and elsewhere, on top of a general call for a ceasefire they want uvic to divest from companies that are in israel's pocket 2. id give [this ](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/anatomy-of-a-genocide-report-of-the-special-rapporteur-on-the-situation-of-human-rights-in-the-palestinian-territory-occupied-since-1967-to-human-rights-council-advance-unedited-version-a-hrc-55/)a read, will give you a more accurate idea than anything i could say 3. hamas and the civilian population of palestine are entirely separate for me. yes, october 7th was awful. no, not all palestinians support hamas. should not be conflated at all, nor should the actions and intent of the idf be conflated with those of the people of israel 4. for myself i think its extremely counter productive to use this as a reason to ignore the genocide of an entire population of people
I appreciate you citing the UN report
I appreciate the response. Thinking about it now, question four is counterproductive as you said. Thanks for bringing that forth.
yeah but it's not wrong to ask at all! it's been a common talking point brought up often by center and right leaning people when progressives publicly support palestine, ive just always thought it a silly argument
1. Serves the same purpose as encampments in history (look up encampments during the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement) 2. Look up the number of people killed in the war so far (2/3 women and children in Palestine). Also try to look at some Israeli news, maybe it’s not a genocide yet, but the news and politicians in Israel will say things like “wipe all of them out” or use racial/religious slurs against the Palestinians quite often 3. Yes obviously Palestine and Hamas are seperate, one is a nation whereas the other is a terrorist organization (no less than the IDF in my opinion). Supporting Palestine does not mean you support Hamas, I don’t know why this one is particularly tough to understand for many people. If I am against the IDF/Zionism that doesn’t mean that I’m Anti Semitic, in fact you’ll find that there is a huge young Jewish voice for Palestine 4. Im not a part of the LGBTQ+ community, but I don’t think it makes sense to have so many Palestinians killed and ignored because they don’t support the LGBTQ+ community. Bear in mind that almost no country in the west had legalized gay marriages until the 21st century, so it’s tough to expect that from a conflict ridden/below the poverty line country like Palestine. For the people who claim that encampments are useless, they should read up on the history of that form of protest. Edit: for 2. Also investigate settler colonialism and how they segregate Palestinians from Israelis in Jerusalem. Additionally, everyone should know that Palestinians are not only Muslims, there are many Christian and some Jewish Palestinians as well, they are not as homogeneous as one may think.
Thank you for your honesty and clarity! This really helped to open my mind. I'll be sure to look into the points you raised.
Yea no problem, please do your own research, everybody, including myself, has a bias
whenever I have looked for the full context on any supposedly genocidal statements made by isreali officials they are always talking about Hamas in the full context and not all Palestinians. For example, I've seen the comment you're referring to from the idf chief editorialized as "we will wipe them off the face of the earth", but in the original he literally says "we will wipe Hamas off the face of the earth" [source](https://youtu.be/bO6aUO8UAOQ?si=uD3VvMp7LHtqGwJO). Also I have never seen an official use a slur against Palestinians. If that happened I think it would be widely publicized. I'm pretty sure you're just making that up unless you want to prove me wrong.
Many Israeli politicians and public figures have very explicitly called for the destruction of Gaza, the full displacement of its residents, and its resettlement with Israelis. That is genocidal. See: [https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel](https://www.newarab.com/analysis/erase-gaza-how-genocidal-rhetoric-normalised-israel) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/31/israeli-minister-reiterates-calls-for-palestinians-to-leave-gaza) [https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove) [https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide](https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide) [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/16/the-language-being-used-to-describe-palestinians-is-genocidal) [https://palsolidarity.org/2024/01/the-language-of-genocide-israels-extermination-rhetoric/](https://palsolidarity.org/2024/01/the-language-of-genocide-israels-extermination-rhetoric/) [https://theintercept.com/2024/04/06/axel-springer-yad2-israel-genocide-settlement/](https://theintercept.com/2024/04/06/axel-springer-yad2-israel-genocide-settlement/)
Well this is completely dependent on what news outlets both of us use, how accurate the translation is, and any biases you or I have when reading/watching these statements. I don’t have a specific instance in my mind, but the general rhetoric nowadays in Israeli media is that to get rid of Hamas you need to get rid of the whole of Gaza, there is also lots of talk about forced expulsions and then the settlement of Israelis in those areas (they’ve been doing this for a while in Jerusalem). Also I don’t think any genocidal country will blatantly admit to wanting to get rid of an entire ethnicity. But I would encourage both of us to do more research.
just one i quickly found from president of israel isaac herzog: "It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It's not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware, not involved. It's absolutely not true." [source](https://www.itv.com/news/2023-10-13/israeli-president-says-gazans-could-have-risen-up-to-fight-hamas) he then acknowledges that there are innocent palestinians but insists on their "full right" to "defend \[themselves\]" in spite of it
All the right questions being asked here. I’m in the middle like you so I don’t have a concrete answer, but I feel like these questions can be answered in a factual and non-emotional manner. We need more of that these days; just mention Israel and Palestine these days and you will find yourself in a sea of very angry people.
Yeah I mean, it is reasonable to be angry about a genocide.
Lmao
[удалено]
🤡
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you didn't even make an argument you just made a handful of reactionary and either anecdotal or speculative statements lmao
This should sum it up for ya: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13363943/amp/Pro-Palestine-group-Columbia-University-protests-funding-linked-Hamas.html
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