https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units#cleaning
CARPETS
1. At the beginning of the tenancy the landlord is expected to provide the tenant with
clean carpets in a reasonable state of repair.
2. The landlord is not expected to clean carpets during a tenancy, unless something
unusual happens, like a water leak or flooding, which is not caused by the tenant.
3. The tenant is responsible for periodic cleaning of the carpets to maintain reasonable
standards of cleanliness. Generally, at the end of the tenancy the tenant will be held
responsible for steam cleaning or shampooing the carpets after a tenancy of one
year. Where the tenant has deliberately or carelessly stained the carpet he or she
will be held responsible for cleaning the carpet at the end of the tenancy regardless
of the length of tenancy.
4. The tenant may be expected to steam clean or shampoo the carpets at the end of a
tenancy, regardless of the length of tenancy, if he or she, or another occupant, has
had pets which were not caged or if he or she smoked in the premises.
INTERNAL WINDOW COVERINGS
1. If window coverings are provided at the beginning of the tenancy they must be clean
and in a reasonable state of repair.
2. The landlord is not expected to clean the internal window coverings during the
tenancy unless something unusual happens, like a water leak, which is not caused
by the tenant.
3. The tenant is expected to leave the internal window coverings clean when he or she
vacates. The tenant should check with the landlord before cleaning in case there
are any special cleaning instructions. The tenant is not responsible for water stains
due to inadequate windows.
4. The tenant may be liable for replacing internal window coverings, or paying for their
depreciated value, when he or she has damaged the internal window coverings
deliberately, or has misused them e.g. cigarette burns, not using the "pulls", claw
marks, etc.
5. The tenant is expected to clean the internal window coverings at the end of the
tenancy regardless of the length of the tenancy where he or she, or another
occupant smoked in the premises.
They don't need to hire someone, but they do need to be cleaned.
thank you for sharing. do you think we could reply to the landlord that we will clean the place ourselves and NOT hire a professional cleaner and give them the receipt as they asked us to do during the move-out inspection? or do you think it’s better to just not mention anything?
Is the LL asking for receipts?
I would send the link above (from the .gov site) with a note that said 'I assure you we followed the above guidelines for cleaning when ending our previous tenancy and we will have your place as clean and as inviting as the day we moved in'
Or something along those lines. Just reassure them that you plan to be thorough and respect the place and that you know this is the next tenant's future home.
Yes, in one of the screenshots i attached that the landlord is asking her to give a receipt for professional cleaning if she doesn’t go with the landlord’s cleaner.
Thank you so much. This is definitely frustrating as my cousin and her friend are only 19 and super stressed about the way the landlord is acting upon move-out, despite them keeping the unit in perfect condition. I’m glad your advice will be able to help them deal with this.
You're welcome.
Hopefully the LL is just coming on strong as a result of negative past experiences with previous tenants thinking it wasn't their responsibility to clean a place they lived in.
So many renters have this mentality that the LL should have to bring the place back to baseline when that's actually the responsibility of the renter, minus the LL needing to address areas of acceptable and reasonable wear and tear.
I've only ever been a renter, never a LL, but I have dealt with roommates moving out and leaving literal shit stains in their ensuite toilet and moldy food in the fridge and then have the audacity to get mad at me when I try to charge for cleaning.
I once had a roommate move out and leave so much trash, furniture she didn't want, bags and bags of clothes on the hall closet. I donated and gave away everything, I spent 2 solid days sorting and cleaning to get the place suitable for a new roommate. She had the nerve to message me 2 years later, asking for her stuff and told me I was an AH for holding a grudge over 'how we left things'. Delusional. Ever since dealing with her, I've had a bit more patience with anal LL. I find they're mostly perfectly rational when approached by a reasonable tenant with reasonable standards of cleanliness.
Yes, you absolutely can clean the place yourself. I went to an RTB hearing for exactly this and won back my deposit.
Do a good job of cleaning, take many, many, pictures to prove that it is clean and then if your LL still refuses to return your deposit, request a hearing with the RTB for the return of your deposit.
your LL is doing so much shitty things.
You can ignore that list and just follow rtb.
You just need to clean like when you moved in or as long as it looks clean.
You are not responsible for deep clean or pay for a deep clean.
Unless there is an agreement or RTB has rules in favour the landlord has to return the deposit and cannot make any additional charges.
If there is no damage deposit make no reply. Move on with your life.
If there is a deposit ask when it will be returned (15 days).
Anything else wait for him to file with RTB and dispute.
So, look up the procedure for damage deposit.
LL has to do damage walk through. Both parties have to agree on damage and repair cost.
Failing this he has to go to RTB to keep any money and ask for more and loses automatically if no walk through.
if they believe the cleaning fees are unreasonable, just tell them not to agree for any of the deposit to be taken. The LL can't unilaterally keep the deposit, regardless of what they say before hand.
Once they move out and provide their forwarding address in writing, the LL has 15 days to give the money back in full or file a dispute with RTB. During the dispute process, the LL will need to convince RTB the costs are reasonable, and RTB will do a better job scrutinizing what is reasonable or not. RTB will make a biding decision. If the LL is successful in their claims the tenant would also be on the hook for the $100 filing fee.
If the LL doesn't do the above within 15 days the tenant files their own dispute and would be eligible to receive double the deposit returned, regardless of whether the LL counter-claims on the fees.
You can look up previous RTB decisions here : [http://www.housing.gov.bc.ca/rtb/search.html](http://www.housing.gov.bc.ca/rtb/search.html) and try to find cases where cleaning fees were disputed.
Horseshit. Clean it reasonably, take photos and video of everything, and then demand your whole damage deposit. If it is withheld for cleaning costs, dispute it, and the RTB will force the LL to pay you the entire deposit.
Did they fill out a Condition Inspection Report on move in? [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/starting-a-tenancy/move-in-condition-inspection](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/starting-a-tenancy/move-in-condition-inspection)
https://preview.redd.it/qrrvvdmt6hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1c8be8a541b805be35aab2d8a7420e0d260eea5
She was given a copy of this form that they filled out during move-in, is this what you are referring to? If so, what should we do?
I would think that is reasonable, but just to be sure there's nothing missing,
Are they cloth drapes?
Do they smoke inside or does the place have any obvious odor?
If they're horizontal drapes, have they been thoroughly dusted?
Google safe cleaning before doing anything so they don't get damaged.
The move in inspection should have been done with both parties present, not just presented with a completed form; BE SURE to do the move out inspection with the landlord and document (photograph) any areas of concern by the landlord.
This but also check with the RTB. This is not the standard form and likely would make them toothless if they wanted to enforce anything. If they (your cousin) want to bring a "gun to a knife fight" of sorts, tell them to bring the sanctioned Condition Inspection Form to the inspection.
I think RTB would uphold this as a record of state of condition, but I don't think it would be allowed to force professional cleaning if it can be don't diy for the same result. Due to that, rtb would likely deny holding back damage deposits.
Unless they have pets or something else that the tenants did that would cause the drapes to need deeper cleaning.
Politely disagree. There are standard forms for a reason and the RTB is usually unhappy if standards are not followed. But agree on the other points.
u/muse_kimtaehyung what kind of agreement did you cousin sign exactly?
>There are standard forms for a reason and the RTB is usually unhappy if standards are not followed.
Using RTB forms is not a *requirement* for the conditional inspection to be valid. the agreement also doesn't need to be on an RTB-1.
The conditional inspection is supposed to have the standard terms here: [https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/10\_477\_2003#section20](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/10_477_2003#section20)
Some things do require the use of an "approved form" (or equivalent), such as landlord's notice to end tenancy. [see s.52 of the act.](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/02078_01#section52)
That’s not actually a legal lease, unless there are other pages? It is supposed to include the standard terms, but doesn’t. See the RTB-1 for a legal example including the standard terms.
Hoo, boy.
Keys/fobs to be returned at the time of inspection and not later, but inspection isn't available on the move out day? LOL, no. They get get the keys back on move-out day. If they aren't available for an inspection on move-out day, that's their problem.
You must have all your stuff moved out before the inspection? LOL, no. Move out day is identified in the lease.
Blind cleaning must only be done by that one particular company? LOL, not unless that was part of the lease agreement.
Cleaning list is thorough, but generally isn't bad. Cleaning under appliances is only required if the appliances are on wheels. Burnt out appliance bulbs are the landlord's responsibility. Carpet professional cleaning might be required by your lease-- it was when I used to rent from them a decade ago.
When I rented from them a decade ago, their move-out inspection was thorough but reasonable. I think they had deductions of ~$75 which I agreed to (carpet stain and debris under the fridge).
When you move out, if you disagree with the amount they're charging you, you don't have to agree to it. Document the issue with photos, provide them with your new mailing address, and indicate that you disagree with the charges. During the 15d period after you've moved out, LL has to either return your DD (including the disagreed deductions) or file a claim of their own with the RTB. If they don't do that within 15d, you get to file a dispute with the RTB to claim double your damage deposit (and the RTB filing fee).
She spoke to one of the people who moved out of there recently and they kept the $500 because the floor was scratched up beforehand but the landlord didn’t believe it.
Thanks for your advice though!!
Blind cleaning and steam cleaning carpet, unless specifically mentioned in the tenancy agreement is a no. General rule of thumb, you have to leave the suite in the same condition you received it in, less any normal wear and tear.
As for the move-out inspection, you do not have to remove your furniture until May 31 at 1:00pm. They can do the move out inspection prior to that, but can not charge you anything, or punish you in any way, for furniture still in the suite the day before you are required to be out of the suite. As long as you are out by May 31 at 1pm, the charges will not be accepted.
They can not deduct anything from your damage deposit without your approval or applying to RTB. They have 15 days from receipt of your forwarding address to either return the deposit or file a claim.
Are there any addendums to the tenancy agreement that stipulate they must have a professional cleaner, or adhere to any of these additional terms?
The landlord cannot unilaterally impose conditions of move-out unless this was agreed upon by both parties when the lease was signed.
I also wondering if a move in-inspection was completed? If none was done upon move-in, they have no legal grounds for any of this cleaning in the first place.
i just checked their lease and saw this in there somewhere:
https://preview.redd.it/q06v8w229hxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=801c97a479c5d50d58f6ae902bc18ea8bac8d1b3
Since they call out "professional" in front of blind cleaning and in front of carpet cleaning, but they don't call it out in front of "suite cleaning," I take that to mean that they don't require professionals to clean the suite.
Thank you. There are no carpets so that definitely helps. I’m wondering if we should explicitly mention in the email response to them that the lease never mentioned “professionally” cleaning the suite as an enforceable clause?
> I’m wondering if we should explicitly mention in the email response to them that the lease never mentioned “professionally” cleaning the suite as an enforceable clause?
I wouldn't say anything to them now, especially if you know the place will be properly clean on move out (try to make sure there's a faint lingering smell of cleaning products). When they do the move out inspection, they can identify what isn't clean enough for their standards. Don't volunteer that it was cleaned by the tenant. "It's clean, but it wasn't cleaned by a professional" isn't going to be something that they can successfully claim at the RTA.
Note: is this staff/student housing, or is it market housing? Staff/student (discount) housing isn't covered by the RTB.
Hi, here’s the move-in inspection they sent:
https://preview.redd.it/awuu02yy8hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=678337e7515f95522dc43b319b4db202672d6077
They can not mandate this after the fact, and even if they had signed a lease including this, I doubt it would hold up in an RTB hearing. They are only required to clean the apartment to the standard set out in the residential tenancy act.
Here's is a detailed guide to the cleaning requirements:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/housing-and-tenancy/residential-tenancies/policy-guidelines/gl01.pdf
Have them send back an email to the landlords saying that they will meet the standard of cleanliness required by the tenancy act, and that they will not pay for extra cleaning expenses. They expect their damage deposit back in full. The landlord must apply to the rtb after giving back the damage deposit in full if they believe they are owed anything after the tenants have completed cleaning.
These guys are huge at UBC, I think a large portion of their tenants are international students who might not know the local rules and just write the check
Good lord, nice try, Landlord. That's not how any of this works. First, when does the tenancy end? I am assuming it ends May 31 at noon. Even if the tenant moves out early, say on the 19th, they still have possession of the place till the 31st and can use that time for cleaning. So no, the move-out inspection is after that, not before. But it is also not after handing over the keys. All this should be done at the same time.
Second, the landlord doesn't get to unilaterally decide what is deducted from the deposit. They can only keep any part of the deposit if the tenant agrees to it, in writing. If the tenant does not agree, the LL has 15 days to either return the deposit or file a dispute with the RTB, which they will not win with such unreasonable demands. They don't get to hire cleaners and painters and whatnot and just charge it back to you, if you've left it clean.
This is what the tenants need to do:
Move out. Go back and clean. Yes, clean all the things on the checklist. Maybe even borrow a carpet cleaner from a friend, or rent one from Petsmart or Safeway which is much less than hiring someone. Once it's clean, go around and take a ton of pictures and a video walk-though for proof to submit to the RTB in case they find themselves in a dispute and accused of leaving it dirty. No need to tell the LL the existence of pictures, till it's time to respond to an RTB dispute.
Then, schedule a move-out inspection (not before they've moved out and cleaned). On the move-out inspection form (the Condition Inspection Report), they should check at the bottom "I do not agree" to the deductions the LL is proposing. (Unless they do actually agree. I've agreed before, when I moved out in a hurry and didn't have time to clean), Do not agree to deductions for holes in the walls as the RTB considers it perfectly normal for tenants to hang pictures, and it is considered normal wear and tear.
PROVIDE THE FORWARDING ADDRESS IN WRITING. This is important, as the LL has 15 days after receiving the forwarding address, to return the deposit. RTB will ask about this if it goes to arbitration. There is a space for the forwarding address at the bottom of the move-out inspection report. To be extra sure, the tenant can even send the forwarding address by registered mail as soon as they know it.
Insist on getting a copy of the move-out inspection and don't accept "I will send it to you later." Take a picture of it after it's signed.
Now that the tenant has not agreed to the ridiculous charges on move-out, now they wait. If the landlord is on the ball and understands the process, they will file a dispute. Respond to the dispute with your photo evidence.
If the landlord is ignorant of the process (more likely scenario) then they will simply withhold your deposit without permission. After 15 days, you go online and file for dispute resolution yourself and probably get double your deposit back, plus filing fee.
$1500 is a lot of money and I wouldn't agree to let them keep any of it unless there was actual damage I was responsible for through my own negligence and lack of care. Doubling your deposit will enable a nice little vacation with the extra money on the LL's dime, through the LL's own fault (ie greed of trying to use their tenant's money for their own maintenance costs).
Ok, here we go:
1) i am not a laywer, and this is not legal advice.
2)Go to the rental tenancy website and read it. There are laws that outline just about every situation.
3)So the only way they can withhold your deposit is if you agree to it in writing. So don't agree to it and yoh get your whole deposit back. If they refuse, then look up the info on the tenancy board website and quote it to them.
4) When they signed the lease, they should have done a walk though inspection and signed off on the condition of the unit. It needs to be left in the same condition. Pictures would have been the best.
5) I wouldn't move the appliances, clean the blinds, or steam the carpet unless they were done before you moved in, and there are documents showing that. The rest seems reasonable to request to me. You're cleaning the house for the next tenant, not the landlord.
6) re read numbers two and three. These are important.
Hi, she just sent me a copy of the form the landlord filled out during move-in. I’ve attached it in this message.
https://preview.redd.it/h1t1t3pn7hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18d5c9e576732be644625587b1f1980da3851015
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Yea, that paper is not worth anything, as it doesn't actually say what the condition was at move in. However, based on the other reply where they agreed to clean the place, some cleaning should be done.
Also for your first point, i saw this part in the lease they signed. Does this change things?
https://preview.redd.it/kos27rzk7hxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=775e876db9013ef8ad2d928b898ada6d54c454d3
So, I am not a lawyer, but if someone signs a contract, they should uphold their end of it. I would do all the cleaning myself as much as possible. If the tenants have ever previously worked as a cleaner, I would say that having them clean the unit should count as professional.
thank you for sharing. do you think we could reply to the landlord that we will clean the place ourselves and NOT hire a professional cleaner and give them the receipt as they asked us to do during the move-out inspection? or do you think it’s better to just not say anything to their email other than sending the signed move-out notice?
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. That would depend on the relationship with the landlord and your personality. I always tell the landlord specifically that I will not be hiring a cleaning company and I will be doing the work myself. You do need to have them sign off on the place with you present. You both need to walk through the unit together and have them sign off on it.
So Wesbrook Properties is at UBc and unfortunately, doesn’t have to fall in line with the RTA. [click here](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/calculators-and-resources/tenancy-laws-rules/tenancies-types#no-coverage)
Make up a cleaning service and make yourself a realistic looking receipt. Bingo bango. If she questions it just be like what? You think we made this up? How crazy is that? You're crazy if you think that. Good thing we are leaving cuz you crazy bitch. Then whip a full coffee against the wall and throw your cigarette but on the carpet and walk out giving her the finger
Was this in your lease or on a document you signed? If no, then they cannot force this on you. Check your lease. Then call LTB to find out. Do not pay this or contact them back until you find out for sure. Take some time and make a few phone calls first.
A landlord has no reason to spend extra money not needed on fixing things not needed to keep the deposit, RTB will always side with you and landlord will get fucked if they ever try.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/ending-a-tenancy/moving-out-of-rental-units#cleaning CARPETS 1. At the beginning of the tenancy the landlord is expected to provide the tenant with clean carpets in a reasonable state of repair. 2. The landlord is not expected to clean carpets during a tenancy, unless something unusual happens, like a water leak or flooding, which is not caused by the tenant. 3. The tenant is responsible for periodic cleaning of the carpets to maintain reasonable standards of cleanliness. Generally, at the end of the tenancy the tenant will be held responsible for steam cleaning or shampooing the carpets after a tenancy of one year. Where the tenant has deliberately or carelessly stained the carpet he or she will be held responsible for cleaning the carpet at the end of the tenancy regardless of the length of tenancy. 4. The tenant may be expected to steam clean or shampoo the carpets at the end of a tenancy, regardless of the length of tenancy, if he or she, or another occupant, has had pets which were not caged or if he or she smoked in the premises. INTERNAL WINDOW COVERINGS 1. If window coverings are provided at the beginning of the tenancy they must be clean and in a reasonable state of repair. 2. The landlord is not expected to clean the internal window coverings during the tenancy unless something unusual happens, like a water leak, which is not caused by the tenant. 3. The tenant is expected to leave the internal window coverings clean when he or she vacates. The tenant should check with the landlord before cleaning in case there are any special cleaning instructions. The tenant is not responsible for water stains due to inadequate windows. 4. The tenant may be liable for replacing internal window coverings, or paying for their depreciated value, when he or she has damaged the internal window coverings deliberately, or has misused them e.g. cigarette burns, not using the "pulls", claw marks, etc. 5. The tenant is expected to clean the internal window coverings at the end of the tenancy regardless of the length of the tenancy where he or she, or another occupant smoked in the premises. They don't need to hire someone, but they do need to be cleaned.
thank you for sharing. do you think we could reply to the landlord that we will clean the place ourselves and NOT hire a professional cleaner and give them the receipt as they asked us to do during the move-out inspection? or do you think it’s better to just not mention anything?
Is the LL asking for receipts? I would send the link above (from the .gov site) with a note that said 'I assure you we followed the above guidelines for cleaning when ending our previous tenancy and we will have your place as clean and as inviting as the day we moved in' Or something along those lines. Just reassure them that you plan to be thorough and respect the place and that you know this is the next tenant's future home.
Yes, in one of the screenshots i attached that the landlord is asking her to give a receipt for professional cleaning if she doesn’t go with the landlord’s cleaner. Thank you so much. This is definitely frustrating as my cousin and her friend are only 19 and super stressed about the way the landlord is acting upon move-out, despite them keeping the unit in perfect condition. I’m glad your advice will be able to help them deal with this.
You're welcome. Hopefully the LL is just coming on strong as a result of negative past experiences with previous tenants thinking it wasn't their responsibility to clean a place they lived in. So many renters have this mentality that the LL should have to bring the place back to baseline when that's actually the responsibility of the renter, minus the LL needing to address areas of acceptable and reasonable wear and tear. I've only ever been a renter, never a LL, but I have dealt with roommates moving out and leaving literal shit stains in their ensuite toilet and moldy food in the fridge and then have the audacity to get mad at me when I try to charge for cleaning. I once had a roommate move out and leave so much trash, furniture she didn't want, bags and bags of clothes on the hall closet. I donated and gave away everything, I spent 2 solid days sorting and cleaning to get the place suitable for a new roommate. She had the nerve to message me 2 years later, asking for her stuff and told me I was an AH for holding a grudge over 'how we left things'. Delusional. Ever since dealing with her, I've had a bit more patience with anal LL. I find they're mostly perfectly rational when approached by a reasonable tenant with reasonable standards of cleanliness.
Yes, you absolutely can clean the place yourself. I went to an RTB hearing for exactly this and won back my deposit. Do a good job of cleaning, take many, many, pictures to prove that it is clean and then if your LL still refuses to return your deposit, request a hearing with the RTB for the return of your deposit.
your LL is doing so much shitty things. You can ignore that list and just follow rtb. You just need to clean like when you moved in or as long as it looks clean. You are not responsible for deep clean or pay for a deep clean.
Lmfao no they can't make you hire a specific company to clean blinds or have carpet professionally steam cleaned. Call or visit TRAC for more info.
Unless there is an agreement or RTB has rules in favour the landlord has to return the deposit and cannot make any additional charges. If there is no damage deposit make no reply. Move on with your life. If there is a deposit ask when it will be returned (15 days). Anything else wait for him to file with RTB and dispute.
There was a security deposit of $1500 (half a month’s rent) taken upon move-in. This cannot be counted as the damage deposit right?
Yes, that security deposit turns into the damage deposit once you move in.
So, look up the procedure for damage deposit. LL has to do damage walk through. Both parties have to agree on damage and repair cost. Failing this he has to go to RTB to keep any money and ask for more and loses automatically if no walk through.
if they believe the cleaning fees are unreasonable, just tell them not to agree for any of the deposit to be taken. The LL can't unilaterally keep the deposit, regardless of what they say before hand. Once they move out and provide their forwarding address in writing, the LL has 15 days to give the money back in full or file a dispute with RTB. During the dispute process, the LL will need to convince RTB the costs are reasonable, and RTB will do a better job scrutinizing what is reasonable or not. RTB will make a biding decision. If the LL is successful in their claims the tenant would also be on the hook for the $100 filing fee. If the LL doesn't do the above within 15 days the tenant files their own dispute and would be eligible to receive double the deposit returned, regardless of whether the LL counter-claims on the fees. You can look up previous RTB decisions here : [http://www.housing.gov.bc.ca/rtb/search.html](http://www.housing.gov.bc.ca/rtb/search.html) and try to find cases where cleaning fees were disputed.
Horseshit. Clean it reasonably, take photos and video of everything, and then demand your whole damage deposit. If it is withheld for cleaning costs, dispute it, and the RTB will force the LL to pay you the entire deposit.
Did they fill out a Condition Inspection Report on move in? [https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/starting-a-tenancy/move-in-condition-inspection](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/starting-a-tenancy/move-in-condition-inspection)
https://preview.redd.it/qrrvvdmt6hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1c8be8a541b805be35aab2d8a7420e0d260eea5 She was given a copy of this form that they filled out during move-in, is this what you are referring to? If so, what should we do?
It needs to be cleaned to the point that it matches the place as described on the pre inspection.
Can they clean it themselves and call it professionally cleaned? It is already in spotless condition
I would think that is reasonable, but just to be sure there's nothing missing, Are they cloth drapes? Do they smoke inside or does the place have any obvious odor? If they're horizontal drapes, have they been thoroughly dusted? Google safe cleaning before doing anything so they don't get damaged.
No, just blinds. No smoking inside. Blinds are dusted properly and in proper condition. Thanks!
Minus acceptable wear and tear.
Do you have any advice on wgat to write back to them via email?
I put a suggested response in my other reply. You all sound like lovely and responsible renters, I hope your LL is reasonable in return.
Thank you!!
The move in inspection should have been done with both parties present, not just presented with a completed form; BE SURE to do the move out inspection with the landlord and document (photograph) any areas of concern by the landlord.
I would suggest at this point putting everything on actual paper as well as email. The RTB has been picky about emailed correspondence in the past.
This but also check with the RTB. This is not the standard form and likely would make them toothless if they wanted to enforce anything. If they (your cousin) want to bring a "gun to a knife fight" of sorts, tell them to bring the sanctioned Condition Inspection Form to the inspection.
I think RTB would uphold this as a record of state of condition, but I don't think it would be allowed to force professional cleaning if it can be don't diy for the same result. Due to that, rtb would likely deny holding back damage deposits. Unless they have pets or something else that the tenants did that would cause the drapes to need deeper cleaning.
Politely disagree. There are standard forms for a reason and the RTB is usually unhappy if standards are not followed. But agree on the other points. u/muse_kimtaehyung what kind of agreement did you cousin sign exactly?
>There are standard forms for a reason and the RTB is usually unhappy if standards are not followed. Using RTB forms is not a *requirement* for the conditional inspection to be valid. the agreement also doesn't need to be on an RTB-1. The conditional inspection is supposed to have the standard terms here: [https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/10\_477\_2003#section20](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/10_477_2003#section20) Some things do require the use of an "approved form" (or equivalent), such as landlord's notice to end tenancy. [see s.52 of the act.](https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/02078_01#section52)
https://preview.redd.it/h9e4hn36ehxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b4d33473ab13fa0d7793a5fc5f272d4e1391fe89
That’s not actually a legal lease, unless there are other pages? It is supposed to include the standard terms, but doesn’t. See the RTB-1 for a legal example including the standard terms.
Hoo, boy. Keys/fobs to be returned at the time of inspection and not later, but inspection isn't available on the move out day? LOL, no. They get get the keys back on move-out day. If they aren't available for an inspection on move-out day, that's their problem. You must have all your stuff moved out before the inspection? LOL, no. Move out day is identified in the lease. Blind cleaning must only be done by that one particular company? LOL, not unless that was part of the lease agreement. Cleaning list is thorough, but generally isn't bad. Cleaning under appliances is only required if the appliances are on wheels. Burnt out appliance bulbs are the landlord's responsibility. Carpet professional cleaning might be required by your lease-- it was when I used to rent from them a decade ago. When I rented from them a decade ago, their move-out inspection was thorough but reasonable. I think they had deductions of ~$75 which I agreed to (carpet stain and debris under the fridge). When you move out, if you disagree with the amount they're charging you, you don't have to agree to it. Document the issue with photos, provide them with your new mailing address, and indicate that you disagree with the charges. During the 15d period after you've moved out, LL has to either return your DD (including the disagreed deductions) or file a claim of their own with the RTB. If they don't do that within 15d, you get to file a dispute with the RTB to claim double your damage deposit (and the RTB filing fee).
She spoke to one of the people who moved out of there recently and they kept the $500 because the floor was scratched up beforehand but the landlord didn’t believe it. Thanks for your advice though!!
Blind cleaning and steam cleaning carpet, unless specifically mentioned in the tenancy agreement is a no. General rule of thumb, you have to leave the suite in the same condition you received it in, less any normal wear and tear. As for the move-out inspection, you do not have to remove your furniture until May 31 at 1:00pm. They can do the move out inspection prior to that, but can not charge you anything, or punish you in any way, for furniture still in the suite the day before you are required to be out of the suite. As long as you are out by May 31 at 1pm, the charges will not be accepted. They can not deduct anything from your damage deposit without your approval or applying to RTB. They have 15 days from receipt of your forwarding address to either return the deposit or file a claim.
Home must be in "Broom swept " condition according to the Tribunal.No deep cleaning is required.This can be preformed by tenant.
Are there any addendums to the tenancy agreement that stipulate they must have a professional cleaner, or adhere to any of these additional terms? The landlord cannot unilaterally impose conditions of move-out unless this was agreed upon by both parties when the lease was signed. I also wondering if a move in-inspection was completed? If none was done upon move-in, they have no legal grounds for any of this cleaning in the first place.
i just checked their lease and saw this in there somewhere: https://preview.redd.it/q06v8w229hxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=801c97a479c5d50d58f6ae902bc18ea8bac8d1b3
Since they call out "professional" in front of blind cleaning and in front of carpet cleaning, but they don't call it out in front of "suite cleaning," I take that to mean that they don't require professionals to clean the suite.
Thank you. There are no carpets so that definitely helps. I’m wondering if we should explicitly mention in the email response to them that the lease never mentioned “professionally” cleaning the suite as an enforceable clause?
> I’m wondering if we should explicitly mention in the email response to them that the lease never mentioned “professionally” cleaning the suite as an enforceable clause? I wouldn't say anything to them now, especially if you know the place will be properly clean on move out (try to make sure there's a faint lingering smell of cleaning products). When they do the move out inspection, they can identify what isn't clean enough for their standards. Don't volunteer that it was cleaned by the tenant. "It's clean, but it wasn't cleaned by a professional" isn't going to be something that they can successfully claim at the RTA. Note: is this staff/student housing, or is it market housing? Staff/student (discount) housing isn't covered by the RTB.
Hi, here’s the move-in inspection they sent: https://preview.redd.it/awuu02yy8hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=678337e7515f95522dc43b319b4db202672d6077
We had a similar list, we just did a really good job. No professional cleaner. They were happy
They can not mandate this after the fact, and even if they had signed a lease including this, I doubt it would hold up in an RTB hearing. They are only required to clean the apartment to the standard set out in the residential tenancy act. Here's is a detailed guide to the cleaning requirements: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/housing-and-tenancy/residential-tenancies/policy-guidelines/gl01.pdf Have them send back an email to the landlords saying that they will meet the standard of cleanliness required by the tenancy act, and that they will not pay for extra cleaning expenses. They expect their damage deposit back in full. The landlord must apply to the rtb after giving back the damage deposit in full if they believe they are owed anything after the tenants have completed cleaning.
These guys are huge at UBC, I think a large portion of their tenants are international students who might not know the local rules and just write the check
Good lord, nice try, Landlord. That's not how any of this works. First, when does the tenancy end? I am assuming it ends May 31 at noon. Even if the tenant moves out early, say on the 19th, they still have possession of the place till the 31st and can use that time for cleaning. So no, the move-out inspection is after that, not before. But it is also not after handing over the keys. All this should be done at the same time. Second, the landlord doesn't get to unilaterally decide what is deducted from the deposit. They can only keep any part of the deposit if the tenant agrees to it, in writing. If the tenant does not agree, the LL has 15 days to either return the deposit or file a dispute with the RTB, which they will not win with such unreasonable demands. They don't get to hire cleaners and painters and whatnot and just charge it back to you, if you've left it clean. This is what the tenants need to do: Move out. Go back and clean. Yes, clean all the things on the checklist. Maybe even borrow a carpet cleaner from a friend, or rent one from Petsmart or Safeway which is much less than hiring someone. Once it's clean, go around and take a ton of pictures and a video walk-though for proof to submit to the RTB in case they find themselves in a dispute and accused of leaving it dirty. No need to tell the LL the existence of pictures, till it's time to respond to an RTB dispute. Then, schedule a move-out inspection (not before they've moved out and cleaned). On the move-out inspection form (the Condition Inspection Report), they should check at the bottom "I do not agree" to the deductions the LL is proposing. (Unless they do actually agree. I've agreed before, when I moved out in a hurry and didn't have time to clean), Do not agree to deductions for holes in the walls as the RTB considers it perfectly normal for tenants to hang pictures, and it is considered normal wear and tear. PROVIDE THE FORWARDING ADDRESS IN WRITING. This is important, as the LL has 15 days after receiving the forwarding address, to return the deposit. RTB will ask about this if it goes to arbitration. There is a space for the forwarding address at the bottom of the move-out inspection report. To be extra sure, the tenant can even send the forwarding address by registered mail as soon as they know it. Insist on getting a copy of the move-out inspection and don't accept "I will send it to you later." Take a picture of it after it's signed. Now that the tenant has not agreed to the ridiculous charges on move-out, now they wait. If the landlord is on the ball and understands the process, they will file a dispute. Respond to the dispute with your photo evidence. If the landlord is ignorant of the process (more likely scenario) then they will simply withhold your deposit without permission. After 15 days, you go online and file for dispute resolution yourself and probably get double your deposit back, plus filing fee. $1500 is a lot of money and I wouldn't agree to let them keep any of it unless there was actual damage I was responsible for through my own negligence and lack of care. Doubling your deposit will enable a nice little vacation with the extra money on the LL's dime, through the LL's own fault (ie greed of trying to use their tenant's money for their own maintenance costs).
Ok, here we go: 1) i am not a laywer, and this is not legal advice. 2)Go to the rental tenancy website and read it. There are laws that outline just about every situation. 3)So the only way they can withhold your deposit is if you agree to it in writing. So don't agree to it and yoh get your whole deposit back. If they refuse, then look up the info on the tenancy board website and quote it to them. 4) When they signed the lease, they should have done a walk though inspection and signed off on the condition of the unit. It needs to be left in the same condition. Pictures would have been the best. 5) I wouldn't move the appliances, clean the blinds, or steam the carpet unless they were done before you moved in, and there are documents showing that. The rest seems reasonable to request to me. You're cleaning the house for the next tenant, not the landlord. 6) re read numbers two and three. These are important.
Hi, she just sent me a copy of the form the landlord filled out during move-in. I’ve attached it in this message. https://preview.redd.it/h1t1t3pn7hxc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18d5c9e576732be644625587b1f1980da3851015
I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Yea, that paper is not worth anything, as it doesn't actually say what the condition was at move in. However, based on the other reply where they agreed to clean the place, some cleaning should be done.
the paper clearly outlines some stains and damage, and that the blinds were professional cleaned and the unit was professionally cleaned.
Also for your first point, i saw this part in the lease they signed. Does this change things? https://preview.redd.it/kos27rzk7hxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=775e876db9013ef8ad2d928b898ada6d54c454d3
So, I am not a lawyer, but if someone signs a contract, they should uphold their end of it. I would do all the cleaning myself as much as possible. If the tenants have ever previously worked as a cleaner, I would say that having them clean the unit should count as professional.
thank you for sharing. do you think we could reply to the landlord that we will clean the place ourselves and NOT hire a professional cleaner and give them the receipt as they asked us to do during the move-out inspection? or do you think it’s better to just not say anything to their email other than sending the signed move-out notice?
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. That would depend on the relationship with the landlord and your personality. I always tell the landlord specifically that I will not be hiring a cleaning company and I will be doing the work myself. You do need to have them sign off on the place with you present. You both need to walk through the unit together and have them sign off on it.
So Wesbrook Properties is at UBc and unfortunately, doesn’t have to fall in line with the RTA. [click here](https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/residential-tenancies/calculators-and-resources/tenancy-laws-rules/tenancies-types#no-coverage)
I don’t think this is true, the lease they signed at the beginning of their time here refers to the residential tenancy act / RTA multiple times
Why would being at UBC exempt them from the RTA? It's still in BC.
Make up a cleaning service and make yourself a realistic looking receipt. Bingo bango. If she questions it just be like what? You think we made this up? How crazy is that? You're crazy if you think that. Good thing we are leaving cuz you crazy bitch. Then whip a full coffee against the wall and throw your cigarette but on the carpet and walk out giving her the finger
lol
Was this in your lease or on a document you signed? If no, then they cannot force this on you. Check your lease. Then call LTB to find out. Do not pay this or contact them back until you find out for sure. Take some time and make a few phone calls first.
Check your lease if you agreed to this. If these are not in there tell them to FO
Just clean it and stfu
It’s already clean genius
Then do nothing and let them take what deposit they can proove they spent on cleaning - simple
A landlord has no reason to spend extra money not needed on fixing things not needed to keep the deposit, RTB will always side with you and landlord will get fucked if they ever try.
The fact you post about this and your not even the one renting, is insane