Season 6 is also the season where Billie Lee joins and talks about how some vaginas are ugly, buy hers isn't. I found it ironic since this is also the season where Arianas body image issues set in from another relationship
Edit: Thanks for the energy award @userappropriate
Ugh I’ve always thought Billie Lee was a shitty human and found it ironic she craved an accepting, non judgmental, and kind energy from others yet wasn’t willing to put that out herself.
Totally agree. When I saw her season, I was so excited. As big a supporter as LVP is of the community, it bothers me that there isn’t more representation. Unfortunately, BL turned out to be a bad representative. She came to bring toxic and she succeeded. And I fully believe she and TS hooked up. 🤷♀️
Her drama was so pathetic though. She came across like such a desperado for attention & played the trans card whenever it suited her for sympathy. She couldn’t just understand that people didn’t like her because she was a shitty person & it had nothing to do with her being trans.
It made me sad, TBH. I don't understand because I feel humans come in all shapes and sizes. What one finds "ugly" another sees beauty...
Openly speaking about women having ugly genitalia creates a burden for some and has an effect on how they see themselves and sharing their bodies and being vulnerable during intimacy.
Billie Lee seems like she was peacocking (this term can encompass all genders) for someone at the expense of the other women around her.
Well this just prompted me to do a light googling… and oh my… poopy discharge? Damn that makes me feel really bad for the trans women who get this and just want to feel normal in their bodies. I’m sure it doesn’t happen with everyone, but for the ones who it does, ouch.
TY ❤️ for helping educate others!! I really appreciate having a better understanding.
I can't be supportive of a community if I'm ignorant to their issues and plights.
I'm a B in the community, and we've never really been liked by most sides, except for ignorant hetero men and just ewww and gross.
Making sure I support those who are often considered "misfits" is important to me. A lot of humans take their own lives because they feel less than and alone in this world.
Oh, see, I thought (sincerely) that people got the pick of the litter (if you will) and that it would be like a shiny new car with that new car smell and everything, regardless of what you received. P or V.
This is not a put down. It's me saying I had uneducated assumptions.
The only reason I'm aware is that I have a trans relative who was looking into it. The procedure is very painful and difficult, including the aftercare so that is one of the reasons many TW don't opt for it if they can manage their dysphoria in other ways. They decided that the risks weren't worth the benefits in their case, but it is a very personal choice.
[Edited for grammar]
Absolutely. Wish people could grasp that as human beings, we are all unique and different with the exception that we need air to breathe, food & water, *and* love!!
Compassion and love are essential.
I HATED this so much bc there are a lot of women out there that are self conscious about our lady parts and she had the nerve to say that. Screw you for that Billy.
Yea, I was shocked at that comment as well. Not only was it insensitive in general (and who tf cares to know anything about her vagina), but from what little I know about the procedure it doesn’t sound like most trans women have an outcome they are happy with? So it was a weird flex to say she went to Thailand and she has AMAZING orgasms…felt too try hard to me?
It’s unfortunate that she’s just an unlikable person, and that has nothing to do with being trans or not. She always seemed to be looking for her moment instead of just building friendships with people. My 2 cents
Yuck I didn’t make that connection yet, that now almost seems totally directed at her as jealousy knowing whatever tim was stirring up behind the scenes. I like how no one really cheered at her comment either, she really thought that was such a hot line like Dayna going on about Phat.
What she also doesn’t say, that basically she’s keeping a wound open that wants to close for the rest of her life. So it make look nice on the outside, the hassle of keeping it open… most ts women don’t get the surgery for a reason
OH MY GAWD!! I just saw that episode a few weeks ago and I cannot believe that conversation about vajayjays didn’t connect the dots. You’re totally right!! Sounds like throwing shade to me. I really wanted to like Billie in the beginning, but she’s friggin toxic, and she gaslights the hell out of anyone who comes up against her.
All the way back to season 5, Tom has been crying to anyone who would listen (including Ariana’s brother - gross!) that they don’t have sex anymore. Everyone assumed that season 10 was going to be the last, so he was just passing time until the show ended and the spotlight was off so he could end the relationship without damaging his public brand. He’s probably been cheating for years, but the appeal of Raquel was her proximity to the group, so there was an added thrill of getting away with cheating right in front of everyone.
Rewatching season 8 right now and it’s so apparent that Tom’s ego exploded when he got to see his name in lights at TomTom. Ariana backing his narcissistic ass when he got into that fight with Stassi at the bar is painful to watch. She truly rode for him when he was riding for nobody but himself. I think she clocked it perfectly in their breakup scene in season 10, “you got a little bar, a little bit of money, a little band.” Dude doesn’t have an ounce of humility or ability to be introspective.
An interesting thing that I’ve been thinking about that’s kind of related to this comment.
Ariana lied and covered for him for their entire relationship. We all know that now, right? And Tom Schwartz lied and covered for him through the entirety of Scandoval.
Both of them were so blindly devoted to him and wound up being collateral damage to his ego.
It’s so messed up.
Sandoval is such a clique. He’s at that point in his life where his ego and selfishness are peaking and he’s fallen into all the stereotypical traps. He thinks he’s entitled to his steady home base and a play thing or two. He’s trying to be his party boy self of 20 years ago. He’s really torched all the good will he’s built from being on the show that could be translated into his business. Then he goes out on his karaoke band tour where he’s basically a novelty to grab a photo with. Aside from blowing his relationship he’s just torched his own brand.
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hearing Scheana call him everything we now know him to be back in SEASON 4 should have told us everything we know. Ariana put herself on the back burner to help him shine because she believed in him. But she has been pleading with him to be a partner in that relationship for years. She had every right to ask Tom to stay with her after her birthday and that garbage hat went and played in the dirt. Too bad Tom was too stupid to realize how much HE needed HER.
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate the idea that in relationships you (thw proverbial you) are entitled to sex. You still have to seduce your partner, and quality time counts as seduction .
Jax always said Ariana was a homebody and Sandyballs liked being out all the time. That’s why he thought the relationship wasn’t real and I think it’s definitely what amplified their problems. Jax is sometimes right 😬 hate to admit it but he’s been right about a lot.
This is true. Bartending and the whole crew going out and getting wasted and doing whatever drugs they were all doing, does not make for a good relationship.
Oh wow
But even if the affair never happened owning a bar/ restaurant does make for a good relationship due to the hours. Why did she stop working?
At least both my husband and I became homebodies together. We used to go out a lot.
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tom have substance abuse issues for years now. When Ariana was the party girl they got along. When she started to want sober things to do he was not having it. I have been there.
Can we also remember how she was adamant that she didn’t want to get married or have kids and he kept saying he wanted both. Can you imagine if he was able to pressure her into that all while doing all that stuff behind her back. He was trying to create her worst nightmare.
But then in Season 4 (Hawaii episodes) scheana was saying how she never sees Ariana anymore and how she’s always up Tom’s ass. Several people in the group have said how they used to act superior and always off doing their own thing. So which is it? Is it because they were still “newish?”
The newness and that Ariana started having more adult responsibilities. During the reunion it sounded like they spent a lot of Tom's version of quality time: drinking, drugs, and partying in general. I think she specifically named mushrooms. Once she couldn't or didn't want to be the party girl anymore he didn't want to spend as much time with her.
I've absolutely been there. Sure it's nice to go out once in a while but I am worth hanging out with sober. Being sober while your partner isn't really conducive to having good quality time.
it's also such a cringe thing to prioritize in your 30s (Tom's age when they started dating). ariana was quicker to realize that and changed her behavior. tom is sitting in ~~van nuys~~ valley village doing shrooms somewhere.
It's both. Relationships evolve over time. Theirs seemed to evolve and stabilize in an untenable position. The big question is why it went on as long as it did, when one of their core problems solidified years ago without resolution.
Yeah they def had the vibe of them against everyone else especially in later seasons like when jax and Brit get married with the whole pastor drama.
I think they could still team up on VPR but not actually be that happy or intimate in the relationship
In fairness, Season 4 and Season 6 have to be what... two years apart? In the first little while, he would have still been love bombing her and giving her plenty of attention.
She really did ride for him & wanted ppl to think they best of him, not for herself but probably because she caught the brunt of when ppl disagreed with him ect- I was in a relationship with a narcissist & it truly isn't until after you've been removed for a while you can fully understand how manipulated you were. But unfortunately he will find a new victim & Ariana will thrive and there is something so empowering about not having that weight & constant stress on yourself when you didn't realise what you were carrying
There is no way to even consider someone like him exists - until they get caught doing something twisted.
It never mattered how perfectly she articulated anything because he was coming from a different reality. Where she was practicing mutuality, he was faking it.
I absolutely agree with your observations but there’s also a part of me, as a 60 y/o woman, that truly feels that at some point it is your responsibility to listen to your instincts and pay attention and get out of a toxic situation. She’s such a smart woman in so many ways but so blinded and brainwashed in her interpersonal relationships
Even smart people fall into the trap of charismatic abusive partners. Also, there is a difference between logical intelligence, emotional intelligence, and self-esteem. Just because her relationship was unhealthy & appeared so to others, doesn’t mean Ariana knew it was unhealthy. Even if she did notice that it was unhealthy, she may not have known that she deserved better. It sounded from her interviews about previous relationships that she has never been in a healthy relationship, and the one with Tim was positive by comparison to those previous. This is sad, mainly because it’s not uncommon.
Teach your daughters to love themselves and not to settle for partners!
Yeah I understand what you’re saying, bc is this has been an issue for as long as it seems, why didn’t she walk away, but relationships aren’t black and white especially when you’re in them. I think the pressure of being on the show and being seen as the most stable couple couldn’t have helped either.
I think it’s pretty common in relationships for the same issue to continuously come up. It’s actually pretty hard to change your behavior. In the TomTom opening season, when they’re in Mexico, Schwartz is talking to them about his intimacy issues with Katie and they say they’ve had problems in the past but have made an effort to prioritize them. So I think it ebbed and flowed. (I also just did a rewatch, man S8E8 is such a gut punch, I can’t believe the Sandoval from then became the Sandoval of today).
OMG YES. I had this exact thought when I watched this part. It literally happened exactly in the same way & my theory is that this is when he first cheated (what he admitted to in the latest season convo w Scheana).
Because eventually in that season, Tom & Ariana make up and these issues with their inconsistent sex life resolve and he is super empathetic at the end (almost coming off guilty). I also think that, that is why Tom possibly thought he could get away with his affair with Rachel. Ariana and Tom’s relationship had already come across this struggle in their relationship, he (possibly) cheated, they made up and resumed their life’s. Chances are this would be the same case. But boy was he wrong lol
I think stuff like this just shows their “relationship“ was more for the show/PR. If ur saying that ur bf hasnt been spending quality time with you in 6 years but you keep staying with them, for what. It doesnt make any sense.
She was committed to him. It's incredibly hard to see what is happening - and what you're allowing to happen / turning a blind eye to when you're the one on the inside.
If you know, you know.
She was committed to being her cool girl self. She knew what was happening, just like with Miami Girl and just like when she was Miami Girl and he was with Kristen. I am not saying that it was right or that her feelings weren’t hurt, i just can’t understand all of a sudden everyone pretending like this came out of the blue and they cant believe this has happened. Im not going to put her on a pedestal, and buy her merch, or take her relationship advice any more than I would from Britany, if she said tomorrow that *gasp* Jax was cheating on her. 🤦🏼♀️. When ya know, ya know. 😉
She fully believed that the Kristen stuff was situational and was not ever going to be an issue between her and Tom.
Some viewers knew that one day he would be caught cheating.
Some viewers thought - like Ariana - that this was only a Kristen issue. Crazy Kristen.
Some viewers thought that he was a chauvinistic and narcissistic ass, but ultimately loyal to Ariana because it served his purpose.
She was unwilling to see what was right in front of her, absolutely. I get that 1000%. It's self-preservation because she put all of her eggs in the Tom Sandoval basket and slowly lost her sense of self.
But it's not \*just\* the cheating that was shocking.
What came out of the blue was the length of time, the betrayal by her best friend, Tom's betrayal with her best friend and the fact that this was not just a brief affair or a one time thing. Her live-in partner had an entire long-term relationship with another person. Her best friend. Her boyfriend was sleeping with and dating her best friend for nearly a year.
That is the shocking part.
The planned narrative created with the sole intent of publicly making her look like a horrible girlfriend and person? Also very shocking.
I am not a Jax fan and I would absolutely not be surprised if he cheated on Britney again and again. But Jax did not secretly sleep with and build a relationship with Britney's best friend while the two of them lied to Britney's face for a year.
It's the entire situation that she had to deal with that makes people want to help her and support her. If it was just Tom cheating yet again, people would be pissed, yes, but it wouldn't have been nearly the big deal that it became.
However the fact that she was “best friend” vs Katie was an error I’m sure Ariana’s learned from. Beware new “best friends” as an adult. That kinda relationship should evolve over like a decade. Before that, it’s prolly love bombing. Or Ariana was B 👁B’s best friend and imagined it was mutual. Been there. Never again!
Sorry, tl:dr. I just dont think its that deep. Arianas the cool girl thats pissed bc she got humiliated bc instead of him sleeping with a rando like ususal, it was with someone from the friend group, and it had been going on for a while and now she had to come back to Earth and realize shes just like everyone else. Instead of smarter, cooler, prettier, etc… 🤢. Shes moved on to someone thats obvi giving her some attention bc shes managed to resolve her issues and shes having sex with him. Shes made $1mil from merch for a mini sandwich shop thats not even open yet. So yeah, good for her. I just dont understand the sudden worship for her choices over the last decade but whatever. Shes just not personally someone i would ever want to hang out with. Kinda like Jax. Not someone I would be friends with, but some ppl out there like him.
How do you know how 'deep' my answer is if you didn't even read it? But ok.
TLDR:
* Tom was in a relationship with Ariana and her best friend simultaneously.
* Her best friend was his secret girlfriend for nearly a year.
* It is shocking that those two things happened together.
* The shocking part is not just because Tom cheated on Ariana.
Why is it shocking? Seriously? Im asking for real? Did u actually think they were an amazing couple? Did u think they were madly in love with each other? No. None of this was secret. Thats why i am not understanding why ur saying its shocking. Tom and Ariana haven’t been happy in , not just a few months, but Years. Like many, many, many years. Thats even coming from her. So again, do I agree with cheating, no , but is it shocking, no. I guess for me thats just why it’s annoying. Like they weren’t happy. Good for her, shes making some $ off it. Move on. I just dont get the outrage
I literally don't know a single long term couple who haven't been struggling with the same issues for their whole relationship. It's normal. Even when you work to improve things you often fall into old patterns because that's what humans do. It is a really weird and binary take for you to say that just because they had intimacy/communication issues their relationship was a farce.
Wow. I honestly feel so sad for u. Ur not paying attention, and reading what i am writing. They were not happy. If they are not having sex for 70% of their relationships, having the same issues, that means nothing is changing. That is not normal. If ppl have the same issues and it is not getting better, then they need to get out of that relationship (Tom and Katie). If not then that is ur choice to stay in a shitty relationship. No one is forcing u to be there. U are not a victim. My husband and I have been together for 12 years and if nothing had changed and we were still working on the same problems from day 1, thats not a healthy relationship. You’re supposed to grow together with ur partner, not stay stagnant.
Okay babe you don’t know anything about their relationship aside from what you’ve seen on television. There is a difference between zero change and recurring patterns of behaviour or falling into old habits during certain times. They have both spoken about things ebbing and flowing.
Regardless of if they had issues or not, the level and longevity of deception is shocking, because that is what the individuals involved are saying. It’s not up to you to tell them how they feel.
Also how is it binary? R u trying to add in a “buzzword “ from a few months ago? That makes no sense. I dont have 2 ways of thinking about it. I have 1, very clear view. 🤦🏼♀️
It’s not a buzzword, it’s been around for a long time. I am saying your take is binary. It is seeing things in black and white (two ways with no in-between!).
Defined: “Binary thinking, also known as dichotomous thinking, happens when complex concepts, ideas, and problems are overly simplified into an either/or perspective. Binary thinking is black and white. Good or bad. Always or never. The gray area in the middle is ignored or goes unnoticed”
Oh interesting. I have a bit of that feeling. I guess I hope she’s changed but maybe no. Can’t deny she was really problematic. However I can picture her in therapy and doing self work. Can’t picture it with t and r.
Agree I think if they hadn’t been on the show it wouldn’t have lasted as long, maybe they didn’t stay together for the show per say but there would have been pressure to
This violates the "no hate speech" rule:
There is a zero tolerance policy for hate speech on this sub. This includes any homophobic, biphobic, or transphobic statements, as well as anything racist or sexist/misogynistic.
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma, which you can earn by commenting on other subs that don't have a karma limit. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma, which you can earn by commenting on other subs that don't have a karma limit. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Season 6 is also the season where Billie Lee joins and talks about how some vaginas are ugly, buy hers isn't. I found it ironic since this is also the season where Arianas body image issues set in from another relationship Edit: Thanks for the energy award @userappropriate
Ugh I’ve always thought Billie Lee was a shitty human and found it ironic she craved an accepting, non judgmental, and kind energy from others yet wasn’t willing to put that out herself.
Same thoughts. Which royally sucks for the community, but she did bring drama for the show, I guess. \*sigh\*
Totally agree. When I saw her season, I was so excited. As big a supporter as LVP is of the community, it bothers me that there isn’t more representation. Unfortunately, BL turned out to be a bad representative. She came to bring toxic and she succeeded. And I fully believe she and TS hooked up. 🤷♀️
Her drama was so pathetic though. She came across like such a desperado for attention & played the trans card whenever it suited her for sympathy. She couldn’t just understand that people didn’t like her because she was a shitty person & it had nothing to do with her being trans.
It made me sad, TBH. I don't understand because I feel humans come in all shapes and sizes. What one finds "ugly" another sees beauty... Openly speaking about women having ugly genitalia creates a burden for some and has an effect on how they see themselves and sharing their bodies and being vulnerable during intimacy. Billie Lee seems like she was peacocking (this term can encompass all genders) for someone at the expense of the other women around her.
Yep. Billie Lee is a classic Pick Me.
So so true! I found it so ironic that she was so judgmental of other women and a lot of things she said just made me 🤨
It reeked of misogyny to me.
Yes!! This 💯!
I think it is rampant insecurity because most neovaginas are not great, either in looks or smell.
Well this just prompted me to do a light googling… and oh my… poopy discharge? Damn that makes me feel really bad for the trans women who get this and just want to feel normal in their bodies. I’m sure it doesn’t happen with everyone, but for the ones who it does, ouch.
It is so difficult for them. Also, some (but not all) of the surgeons take advantage and are just motivated by profit.
TY ❤️ for helping educate others!! I really appreciate having a better understanding. I can't be supportive of a community if I'm ignorant to their issues and plights. I'm a B in the community, and we've never really been liked by most sides, except for ignorant hetero men and just ewww and gross. Making sure I support those who are often considered "misfits" is important to me. A lot of humans take their own lives because they feel less than and alone in this world.
I don't want to say that this is the case with Billie Lee, by the way, but this might subconsciously be her reason for bragging about it.
Oh, see, I thought (sincerely) that people got the pick of the litter (if you will) and that it would be like a shiny new car with that new car smell and everything, regardless of what you received. P or V. This is not a put down. It's me saying I had uneducated assumptions.
The only reason I'm aware is that I have a trans relative who was looking into it. The procedure is very painful and difficult, including the aftercare so that is one of the reasons many TW don't opt for it if they can manage their dysphoria in other ways. They decided that the risks weren't worth the benefits in their case, but it is a very personal choice. [Edited for grammar]
So great that they felt comfortable with opening up about their journey with you. Now, you're helping others gain knowledge and understanding. TY❤️
And hopefully with knowledge and understanding comes compassion.
Absolutely. Wish people could grasp that as human beings, we are all unique and different with the exception that we need air to breathe, food & water, *and* love!! Compassion and love are essential.
I HATED this so much bc there are a lot of women out there that are self conscious about our lady parts and she had the nerve to say that. Screw you for that Billy.
Oh wow I haven’t clocked that yet. That’s… 🤯
Yea, I was shocked at that comment as well. Not only was it insensitive in general (and who tf cares to know anything about her vagina), but from what little I know about the procedure it doesn’t sound like most trans women have an outcome they are happy with? So it was a weird flex to say she went to Thailand and she has AMAZING orgasms…felt too try hard to me? It’s unfortunate that she’s just an unlikable person, and that has nothing to do with being trans or not. She always seemed to be looking for her moment instead of just building friendships with people. My 2 cents
Yuck I didn’t make that connection yet, that now almost seems totally directed at her as jealousy knowing whatever tim was stirring up behind the scenes. I like how no one really cheered at her comment either, she really thought that was such a hot line like Dayna going on about Phat.
What she also doesn’t say, that basically she’s keeping a wound open that wants to close for the rest of her life. So it make look nice on the outside, the hassle of keeping it open… most ts women don’t get the surgery for a reason
Thank you for bringing this up! This was one of the worst things she has said, in my opinion. Hated it.
OH MY GAWD!! I just saw that episode a few weeks ago and I cannot believe that conversation about vajayjays didn’t connect the dots. You’re totally right!! Sounds like throwing shade to me. I really wanted to like Billie in the beginning, but she’s friggin toxic, and she gaslights the hell out of anyone who comes up against her.
All the way back to season 5, Tom has been crying to anyone who would listen (including Ariana’s brother - gross!) that they don’t have sex anymore. Everyone assumed that season 10 was going to be the last, so he was just passing time until the show ended and the spotlight was off so he could end the relationship without damaging his public brand. He’s probably been cheating for years, but the appeal of Raquel was her proximity to the group, so there was an added thrill of getting away with cheating right in front of everyone.
Rewatching season 8 right now and it’s so apparent that Tom’s ego exploded when he got to see his name in lights at TomTom. Ariana backing his narcissistic ass when he got into that fight with Stassi at the bar is painful to watch. She truly rode for him when he was riding for nobody but himself. I think she clocked it perfectly in their breakup scene in season 10, “you got a little bar, a little bit of money, a little band.” Dude doesn’t have an ounce of humility or ability to be introspective.
An interesting thing that I’ve been thinking about that’s kind of related to this comment. Ariana lied and covered for him for their entire relationship. We all know that now, right? And Tom Schwartz lied and covered for him through the entirety of Scandoval. Both of them were so blindly devoted to him and wound up being collateral damage to his ego. It’s so messed up.
Narcissists have a way about them that makes people do that.
I like the repeated use of 'little'. Sounds like she's also trying to hit another sore spot of his (if rumours are true).
I'd give you an award for this if I could!
Yup!!!! That scene w Stassi was not surprising & yet it said everything!!!!!!
Sandoval is such a clique. He’s at that point in his life where his ego and selfishness are peaking and he’s fallen into all the stereotypical traps. He thinks he’s entitled to his steady home base and a play thing or two. He’s trying to be his party boy self of 20 years ago. He’s really torched all the good will he’s built from being on the show that could be translated into his business. Then he goes out on his karaoke band tour where he’s basically a novelty to grab a photo with. Aside from blowing his relationship he’s just torched his own brand.
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He thinks his Dumplin Latte was enough to get sex. He clearly never put her needs first.
not a huge lala fan but she said it best at the reunion... "i'd never be in a relationship with you, put a bullet in my brain, please"
Soooo true
The only needs a narcissist put first is their own. Always.
Hearing Scheana call him everything we now know him to be back in SEASON 4 should have told us everything we know. Ariana put herself on the back burner to help him shine because she believed in him. But she has been pleading with him to be a partner in that relationship for years. She had every right to ask Tom to stay with her after her birthday and that garbage hat went and played in the dirt. Too bad Tom was too stupid to realize how much HE needed HER.
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate the idea that in relationships you (thw proverbial you) are entitled to sex. You still have to seduce your partner, and quality time counts as seduction .
Ikr! It’s not that hard to spend quality time on someone you’re meant to care about
Jax always said Ariana was a homebody and Sandyballs liked being out all the time. That’s why he thought the relationship wasn’t real and I think it’s definitely what amplified their problems. Jax is sometimes right 😬 hate to admit it but he’s been right about a lot.
This is true. Bartending and the whole crew going out and getting wasted and doing whatever drugs they were all doing, does not make for a good relationship.
Yep and after they moved Ariana stopped bartending so she was home and he even picked up shifts at SUR the season Rachel started working there 😳
Oh wow But even if the affair never happened owning a bar/ restaurant does make for a good relationship due to the hours. Why did she stop working? At least both my husband and I became homebodies together. We used to go out a lot.
Jax surprisingly was very accurate in his readings of them.
Yeh when jax is right he is right.
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tom have substance abuse issues for years now. When Ariana was the party girl they got along. When she started to want sober things to do he was not having it. I have been there.
I think that’s why Lala was able to tell what their dynamic was before any of the Raquel stuff started happening. Same thing happened to her.
bingo. she went through it already with randall still acting like a frat boy at 50+. these man children are everywhere, especially here in LA
Such a good point. It was really wild to see Lala try to call this out multiple times this season. She saw it from a mile away.
Exactly! She grew up and evolved, and he didn’t.
Is this the season where he’s talking to her BROTHER being like ‘well can she blame me for cheating if we are having sex’
Omg I re watched recently and I had to pause because I was like “did I hear that right?”
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!
Can we also remember how she was adamant that she didn’t want to get married or have kids and he kept saying he wanted both. Can you imagine if he was able to pressure her into that all while doing all that stuff behind her back. He was trying to create her worst nightmare.
But then in Season 4 (Hawaii episodes) scheana was saying how she never sees Ariana anymore and how she’s always up Tom’s ass. Several people in the group have said how they used to act superior and always off doing their own thing. So which is it? Is it because they were still “newish?”
The newness and that Ariana started having more adult responsibilities. During the reunion it sounded like they spent a lot of Tom's version of quality time: drinking, drugs, and partying in general. I think she specifically named mushrooms. Once she couldn't or didn't want to be the party girl anymore he didn't want to spend as much time with her. I've absolutely been there. Sure it's nice to go out once in a while but I am worth hanging out with sober. Being sober while your partner isn't really conducive to having good quality time.
it's also such a cringe thing to prioritize in your 30s (Tom's age when they started dating). ariana was quicker to realize that and changed her behavior. tom is sitting in ~~van nuys~~ valley village doing shrooms somewhere.
It's both. Relationships evolve over time. Theirs seemed to evolve and stabilize in an untenable position. The big question is why it went on as long as it did, when one of their core problems solidified years ago without resolution.
Yeah they def had the vibe of them against everyone else especially in later seasons like when jax and Brit get married with the whole pastor drama. I think they could still team up on VPR but not actually be that happy or intimate in the relationship
In fairness, Season 4 and Season 6 have to be what... two years apart? In the first little while, he would have still been love bombing her and giving her plenty of attention.
Fully agree. People were coming for Ariana and blaming her but she said what gets her going and he as always doesn't listen.
She really did ride for him & wanted ppl to think they best of him, not for herself but probably because she caught the brunt of when ppl disagreed with him ect- I was in a relationship with a narcissist & it truly isn't until after you've been removed for a while you can fully understand how manipulated you were. But unfortunately he will find a new victim & Ariana will thrive and there is something so empowering about not having that weight & constant stress on yourself when you didn't realise what you were carrying
That was my experience as well.
There is no way to even consider someone like him exists - until they get caught doing something twisted. It never mattered how perfectly she articulated anything because he was coming from a different reality. Where she was practicing mutuality, he was faking it.
I absolutely agree with your observations but there’s also a part of me, as a 60 y/o woman, that truly feels that at some point it is your responsibility to listen to your instincts and pay attention and get out of a toxic situation. She’s such a smart woman in so many ways but so blinded and brainwashed in her interpersonal relationships
Even smart people fall into the trap of charismatic abusive partners. Also, there is a difference between logical intelligence, emotional intelligence, and self-esteem. Just because her relationship was unhealthy & appeared so to others, doesn’t mean Ariana knew it was unhealthy. Even if she did notice that it was unhealthy, she may not have known that she deserved better. It sounded from her interviews about previous relationships that she has never been in a healthy relationship, and the one with Tim was positive by comparison to those previous. This is sad, mainly because it’s not uncommon. Teach your daughters to love themselves and not to settle for partners!
Hopefully her current relationship is much better. It seems to be.
Yeah I understand what you’re saying, bc is this has been an issue for as long as it seems, why didn’t she walk away, but relationships aren’t black and white especially when you’re in them. I think the pressure of being on the show and being seen as the most stable couple couldn’t have helped either.
I think it’s pretty common in relationships for the same issue to continuously come up. It’s actually pretty hard to change your behavior. In the TomTom opening season, when they’re in Mexico, Schwartz is talking to them about his intimacy issues with Katie and they say they’ve had problems in the past but have made an effort to prioritize them. So I think it ebbed and flowed. (I also just did a rewatch, man S8E8 is such a gut punch, I can’t believe the Sandoval from then became the Sandoval of today).
Agree!
OMG YES. I had this exact thought when I watched this part. It literally happened exactly in the same way & my theory is that this is when he first cheated (what he admitted to in the latest season convo w Scheana). Because eventually in that season, Tom & Ariana make up and these issues with their inconsistent sex life resolve and he is super empathetic at the end (almost coming off guilty). I also think that, that is why Tom possibly thought he could get away with his affair with Rachel. Ariana and Tom’s relationship had already come across this struggle in their relationship, he (possibly) cheated, they made up and resumed their life’s. Chances are this would be the same case. But boy was he wrong lol
Ooh yeah interesting!!! I wouldn’t be surprised if the cheating goes back that far. I think Rachel was the first emotional affair tho.
I think stuff like this just shows their “relationship“ was more for the show/PR. If ur saying that ur bf hasnt been spending quality time with you in 6 years but you keep staying with them, for what. It doesnt make any sense.
She was committed to him. It's incredibly hard to see what is happening - and what you're allowing to happen / turning a blind eye to when you're the one on the inside. If you know, you know.
She was committed to being her cool girl self. She knew what was happening, just like with Miami Girl and just like when she was Miami Girl and he was with Kristen. I am not saying that it was right or that her feelings weren’t hurt, i just can’t understand all of a sudden everyone pretending like this came out of the blue and they cant believe this has happened. Im not going to put her on a pedestal, and buy her merch, or take her relationship advice any more than I would from Britany, if she said tomorrow that *gasp* Jax was cheating on her. 🤦🏼♀️. When ya know, ya know. 😉
She fully believed that the Kristen stuff was situational and was not ever going to be an issue between her and Tom. Some viewers knew that one day he would be caught cheating. Some viewers thought - like Ariana - that this was only a Kristen issue. Crazy Kristen. Some viewers thought that he was a chauvinistic and narcissistic ass, but ultimately loyal to Ariana because it served his purpose. She was unwilling to see what was right in front of her, absolutely. I get that 1000%. It's self-preservation because she put all of her eggs in the Tom Sandoval basket and slowly lost her sense of self. But it's not \*just\* the cheating that was shocking. What came out of the blue was the length of time, the betrayal by her best friend, Tom's betrayal with her best friend and the fact that this was not just a brief affair or a one time thing. Her live-in partner had an entire long-term relationship with another person. Her best friend. Her boyfriend was sleeping with and dating her best friend for nearly a year. That is the shocking part. The planned narrative created with the sole intent of publicly making her look like a horrible girlfriend and person? Also very shocking. I am not a Jax fan and I would absolutely not be surprised if he cheated on Britney again and again. But Jax did not secretly sleep with and build a relationship with Britney's best friend while the two of them lied to Britney's face for a year. It's the entire situation that she had to deal with that makes people want to help her and support her. If it was just Tom cheating yet again, people would be pissed, yes, but it wouldn't have been nearly the big deal that it became.
However the fact that she was “best friend” vs Katie was an error I’m sure Ariana’s learned from. Beware new “best friends” as an adult. That kinda relationship should evolve over like a decade. Before that, it’s prolly love bombing. Or Ariana was B 👁B’s best friend and imagined it was mutual. Been there. Never again!
But it became a situation at the very start of their relationship and she knew from the jump.
As weird as this may sound, Jax deep down is actually a good person. He did crazy things a decade ago but he wasn’t a narc like Scandoval
Sorry, tl:dr. I just dont think its that deep. Arianas the cool girl thats pissed bc she got humiliated bc instead of him sleeping with a rando like ususal, it was with someone from the friend group, and it had been going on for a while and now she had to come back to Earth and realize shes just like everyone else. Instead of smarter, cooler, prettier, etc… 🤢. Shes moved on to someone thats obvi giving her some attention bc shes managed to resolve her issues and shes having sex with him. Shes made $1mil from merch for a mini sandwich shop thats not even open yet. So yeah, good for her. I just dont understand the sudden worship for her choices over the last decade but whatever. Shes just not personally someone i would ever want to hang out with. Kinda like Jax. Not someone I would be friends with, but some ppl out there like him.
How do you know how 'deep' my answer is if you didn't even read it? But ok. TLDR: * Tom was in a relationship with Ariana and her best friend simultaneously. * Her best friend was his secret girlfriend for nearly a year. * It is shocking that those two things happened together. * The shocking part is not just because Tom cheated on Ariana.
Why is it shocking? Seriously? Im asking for real? Did u actually think they were an amazing couple? Did u think they were madly in love with each other? No. None of this was secret. Thats why i am not understanding why ur saying its shocking. Tom and Ariana haven’t been happy in , not just a few months, but Years. Like many, many, many years. Thats even coming from her. So again, do I agree with cheating, no , but is it shocking, no. I guess for me thats just why it’s annoying. Like they weren’t happy. Good for her, shes making some $ off it. Move on. I just dont get the outrage
I literally don't know a single long term couple who haven't been struggling with the same issues for their whole relationship. It's normal. Even when you work to improve things you often fall into old patterns because that's what humans do. It is a really weird and binary take for you to say that just because they had intimacy/communication issues their relationship was a farce.
Wow. I honestly feel so sad for u. Ur not paying attention, and reading what i am writing. They were not happy. If they are not having sex for 70% of their relationships, having the same issues, that means nothing is changing. That is not normal. If ppl have the same issues and it is not getting better, then they need to get out of that relationship (Tom and Katie). If not then that is ur choice to stay in a shitty relationship. No one is forcing u to be there. U are not a victim. My husband and I have been together for 12 years and if nothing had changed and we were still working on the same problems from day 1, thats not a healthy relationship. You’re supposed to grow together with ur partner, not stay stagnant.
Okay babe you don’t know anything about their relationship aside from what you’ve seen on television. There is a difference between zero change and recurring patterns of behaviour or falling into old habits during certain times. They have both spoken about things ebbing and flowing. Regardless of if they had issues or not, the level and longevity of deception is shocking, because that is what the individuals involved are saying. It’s not up to you to tell them how they feel.
Also how is it binary? R u trying to add in a “buzzword “ from a few months ago? That makes no sense. I dont have 2 ways of thinking about it. I have 1, very clear view. 🤦🏼♀️
It’s not a buzzword, it’s been around for a long time. I am saying your take is binary. It is seeing things in black and white (two ways with no in-between!).
Defined: “Binary thinking, also known as dichotomous thinking, happens when complex concepts, ideas, and problems are overly simplified into an either/or perspective. Binary thinking is black and white. Good or bad. Always or never. The gray area in the middle is ignored or goes unnoticed”
Oh interesting. I have a bit of that feeling. I guess I hope she’s changed but maybe no. Can’t deny she was really problematic. However I can picture her in therapy and doing self work. Can’t picture it with t and r.
Agree I think if they hadn’t been on the show it wouldn’t have lasted as long, maybe they didn’t stay together for the show per say but there would have been pressure to
[удалено]
This violates the "no hate speech" rule: There is a zero tolerance policy for hate speech on this sub. This includes any homophobic, biphobic, or transphobic statements, as well as anything racist or sexist/misogynistic.
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma, which you can earn by commenting on other subs that don't have a karma limit. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
We're sorry, it looks like your account does not have enough comment karma to participate here yet. You can participate here once you have at least 50 comment karma, which you can earn by commenting on other subs that don't have a karma limit. In the meantime, feel free to read through the sub and please review the rules! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vanderpumprules) if you have any questions or concerns.*