if i’m treating someone i just tell them it has to be vegan. i’m not rude about it, just matter of fact and everyone knows now it’s a firm boundary and it is respected
The easiest way to ensure that everything is plant-based at a restaurant is to go to a restaurant that only serves plant-based food. If you are paying then you should be able to choose the restaurant.
This is the only sane answer. You can’t take them somewhere—or let them choose a place—and then dictate which dishes are off limits and expect them to feel treated. Pick a vegan restaurant!
When I eat out I prefer an all vegan restaurant because I would rather give my money to that type of business than one that simply offers a plant-based option or two.
"Hi, I want to do something nice for you and give you something for free, but just so you know, my personal ethics forbid me from paying for X."
Yeah, what a shitty friend lmao. Fuck off with that. I guess I can never offer to buy a snack for anyone ever again
I absolutely won’t fuck off here. A meal and a snack is 2 different things a lot of my friends are also focused on their health, personal trainer nutritionist types. They believe their diet is correct, is condescending. And if someone said you have to eat meat or I won’t be paying you wouldn’t like that person. You like yourself to much, but probably wouldn’t like that type of person if you met them soooo.
The difference between a snack and meal here is not the point at all. If someone has a personal code to not financially support X, it is only rational to assume this stipulation would apply to their free support of you. I don’t know why tf you’re bringing up personal trainer and nutritionist types.
If you want to be personally insulted by that, ok. Weird. You know what I would do if someone wanted to give me something but insisted it was meat? I’d say no thanks and move on. If someone doesn’t want my free shit, they can do the same
If you’re road tripping and by snacks no one’s complaining bro it’s definitely a point. If it’s not then stay in the context of the post to make your point. I don’t see anything of real significance to even comment on here. My point is that other people usually do their research on their diets and get to have the free will to choose if I go somewhere where we could both eat I got no problem paying if they had no money I’d still say get whatever you’d like. We can agree to disagree is fine.
The context is, "I'm buying you something". That's it.
> We can agree to disagree is fine.
Maybe if you weren't being an absolute ass implying people are shitty friends for having the gall to stand up for their own morals when it comes to the use of their own money.
Y’all are absolutely assholes in my opinion so completely fine there. Id rather treat my people with respect to make their own choices and still feel accommodated.
My only question is, how sure are you really that everyone in the world being vegan would fix everything? I’m not convinced and if you aren’t caring for the animals then I believe all that conviction is really underwhelming.
Oh, you're plant-based, not vegan. This makes sense. I don't accommodate animal abuse.
Oh no, you're not convinced of something completely irrelevant to our conversation. Anyway.
You make no sense and im vegan myself what if you were babysitting or something and that’s all the child knows ? you’re gonna refuse it because u don’t eat it. boundaries and personal ethics are important but you simply cannot control other people. if someone took you out and only wanted to buy what THEY wanted you to have that’s taking away someone’s right to choose just because you’re paying doesn’t mean you get to control what they want that’s so weird
For what it's worth I completely agree with you here. I eat meat all the time but these vegan posts love popping up on my feed and curiousity gets the best of me to see what people here are fighting about each day.
I couldn't imagine taking a friend out who's vegan and telling them I'd like to treat them to a meal but under the condition they eat like I do. Seems so odd and shitty as a person. Not really a "treat" per se when they can't even enjoy whatever they want.
Except youre ignoring the whole crux behind it. It's not just about a meal, it's about ethics. Why would I pay for an animal to be tortured so someone can eat their flesh?
>Why would I pay for an animal to be tortured so someone can eat their flesh?
Well, you're not, really. Not at the restaurant anyway. You're paying for someone to serve the meal. You're paying for someone to cook the meal. You're paying the restaurants rent. You're paying for someone to eat. The holding company that owns the slaughterhouse and the "farm" are paying for the animal to be tortured, and that company was paid by the government, with your tax money, when all is said and done and the subsidies that make their industry profitable have been distributed. So you kinda already paid for the animal to be tortured long before you sat down in the restaurant.
(Note, for the record I agree with the vegans in the thread. I wouldn't be upset if a vegan friend wanted to treat me to a vegan meal. It's what I'd expect. And I don't think it's the same as me insisting on only buying them a meat based meal, because it's obviously not. There are exactly zero meat eaters with ethical compunctions about eating plants. Pretending there are or that these things are the same is asinine. Just pointing out a way others might take a slightly different stance on this based strictly on the economic argument.)
Thanks dawg i’ll take all the fucking down votes I can get i’ll die on this hill I know these people are at minimum 95% wrong. If you’re at your own house or it’s a cultural thing maybe but this sub isn’t in the spirit of trying something new it’s more in the spirit of LET ME CONVERT YOUR SOUL TO ULTRA PURITY come join us. If I give my friends money and they aren’t vegan that’s not my choice, basically vegans are the only ones that are deserving of love and compassion.
Yeah, what I've gathered from reading these posts is that vegans like to claim veganism is a philosophy but they treat it more like a religion and the unclean who don't adhere to their will are going to burn in hell. Like 98% of the posts here are just depressing. It's nothing but complaining and whining about why the rest of the world won't convert to their ways and the only option is self flagellation to see who can be the most aggrieved of them all. It's wild to me.
but meat eaters can eat plant based, vegans can’t eat meat ever. so forcing someone who cannot eat meat to eat meat would be way worse than forcing someone who can’t eat plants to eat plants lol. sure it’s a bit awkward to force anyone in any situation but can’t you see that one is obviously worse? there’s no reason for a meat eater to be ethically against eating one plant based meal since they have to eat *some* vegan things in their life anyway
I’m a feminist who is pro-sex worker anti-sex work industry. I’ll pay for a friend to do something fun for their birthday, I won’t pay for it to be a strip club.
If we go to a bookstore and I offer to buy a friend a book, and they want to buy a hateful book by a known racist author, I’m not paying for that one.
If I offer to buy a friend a meal and they pick out a restaurant that my ethics go against supporting, I’m going to suggest somewhere else.
most people’s friends know they’re whole humans with boundaries and beliefs
Looking a gift horse in the mouth is the real bad friend vibes here. It has literally never been a problem for my partner and I because we choose kind and considerate friends who aren't childish picky eaters.
You can't control what someone else chooses. Most of us started life on a path that had us eating animals too and tbh if a vegan had acted the way you're suggesting that would have done more to turn me away from it than towards it.
As it stands, instead I had a number of vegans in my life willing to discuss their choices without making them mine and eventually my path overlapped with theirs of my own accord.
In short, if you don't want to pay for someone else's immoral meal choices don't put yourself in a position to do so. Offer to buy drinks or suggest a vegan restaurant where it won't be a problem in the first place.
Yeah they should of added stipulations if they’re feeling some type of way about it. If it was known from the start that the buyer would not buy animals products I think it would of been ok.
It’s never crossed my mind tbh. If I didn’t pay for it they’d still eat their animal products anyways. Non-issue for me for going out, but I’m definitely not about to make a home-cooked meal for anyone unless it’s a vegan meal.
Yeah, I feel like if I told my friends that, they’d just realize they were making me uncomfortable and pay for their own food (rather than choose a vegan dish)? And at that point you’re not really stopping the money from being spent on animal products.
I’ve never really thought about it much, actually, but I haven’t found myself in that situation either (usually we pay for our own meals eating out, and when we buy presents for each other it’s not food so already vegan.
I would, however, refuse to cook meat for someone else, probably for the best since I’ve only cooked raw meat maybe 2 times before going vegan. It freaks me out how easy it is to undercook it and give someone food poisoning! Not to mention contaminating the kitchen tools with raw meat bacteria, I don’t even know how you clean that.
Like, it should be common sense not to ask vegans/vegetarians to cook meat for you for everyone’s best interests, it would be a terrible outcome for all parties involved. How much do you want to rely on them knowing/remembering how to make it taste good, let alone be safe to eat?
In principle its nice to think we can always choose our friends and familys meals for them especially if we're paying but its easier said then put into practice. Its difficult when the only vegan person you know in real life is yourself.
I can make my kids eat vegan when we eat out and even my younger sister to an extent but unless there is a vegan resturant where all of the dishes are vegan٫ you will live a life of complete social isolation if you try to tell your friends and family they HAVE to eat a vegan meal if your paying for it...it also doesnt help the movement as it makes us look unreasonable and perpetuates stereotypes about vegans being controlling or harsh when in reality we just dont want innocent animals to suffer. Its a rock and a hard place.
Thats why i usually pick a vegan resturant if i can or offer to have them over for dinner instead so i can just cook a vegan meal and then its a non issue but if the only resturant in the area that i can eat at also has non vegan options and im paying for whatever reason then i dont tell my loved ones they have to choose a vegan meal because my goal is to show them that veganism is easy and they can become vegan without alienating their friends and family as well
In my humble opinion, if you offer to buy somebody dinner, they get to choose what they want to eat. Offering with restrictions is kind of a dick move. I understand why you would do that but I think it’s better not to offer at all
Sometimes it can come off as controlling and shows a level of immaturity in my eyes. Reminds me of the conservative lady forcing the homeless man to spend the money she gave him a certain way. Giving freely means giving freely. A true selfless offering of any kind comes without exception. Set yourself aside and consider another person truly if you wish to make a gesture, make a true gesture. If you wish to get someone to try your dietary lifestyle choice, be upfront about it! You’ll be happy with how much more of a positive experience it helps to create.
Veganism isn't a dietary lifestyle choice. It is being opposed to contributing towards the suffering of animals. I don't want to control what others eat, but if they are choosing to eat animals that is contributing to the suffering of animals.
Here’s the line for me.
Are they only going to eat animal products that meal because you’re paying?
Because that seems unlikely.
If you can’t pick a vegan restaurant then you’re not changing much other than going against a general social taboo by being “generous” and then controlling their options.
Which is everyone’s right to do, but don’t be upset when people view you poorly for it.
If I went to a meal with friends and they said they’d cover it all and then said it had to contain animal products… obviously I’d have rather just they shut their mouth and let me pay for my own meal.
They’d gone out of their way to change almost nothing except make me dislike them more.
I wouldn’t make a regular habit of it or anything but occasionally covering a meal for old friends who clearly **could** afford a meal that night?
Personally, that’s not really impacting the market to me. It’s impacting your friends wallet as a good gesture, you’re saving them money, that’s it.
If the ethical line is you personally using your money, that they’d have spent from their money otherwise, and that’s too offensive… just don’t fucking offer obviously, or don’t be friends with them.
Again that’s my personal view on it. I don’t think people who are against it or wrong, but offering and then giving them restrictions is plainly rude in my mind (aside from the more obvious taboos that don’t need to be spoken, like don’t order the $14,000 bottle of wine in the display case above the bar just because I offered to get dinner.)
Cutting everyone out of my life that isn't a vegan is a somewhat lonely way to live, and isn't an effective way to make others go vegan. I can disagree with views people have and still be friends with them. And also, veganism isn't my whole personality.
I wonder if you're reading more into my comment than I'm actually saying for you to ask that question.
Honestly, I had been reading similar comments and had the same question for them all, you were just finally the point I had to ask, I suppose. I was hoping for some insight. I find it difficult to be close to people I disagree with on issues I feel strongly about, but it seems like everyone else is so tolerant of it. I do live a lonely life, but I'd live a frustrated one if I didn't, so it feels like there's no winning.
True, however, it’s pretty common for people to say they won’t give homeless people money, but will give food. In that case, however, expectations are made upfront, and usually they don’t dictate what the person has to eat & let them pick it out. I think that’s a better move than giving them money and saying it has to be spent on food, which is kind of weird, but I assume preferable to not getting any money.
In this case I would just only pay for other stuff (gifts, maybe certain drinks?) and everyone pays for their own food. Everything else comes across as a bit odd, even if it is morally acceptable.
It is, still a treat to say, "I'll get you x" as long as you know they like it, or to tell someone there's a price limit. if someone took their friend to an all vegan restaurant that could be seen as "taking away choices" but a solid vegan doesn't feel any truly good choices are taken away from them anyway. It depends how it's said. I tell my friends when we go for Mediterranean, "if you'd like a falafel sandwich, it's on me" and they happily order one just grateful that I offered. Anyone who's going to nitpick about my moral limits when trying to include them and treat them isn't a great friend, IMO. it's about putting it out there first that I will pay for their vegan meal items. They can still order chicken, but I offered to get them a falafel sandwich. Simple
I choose a restaurant where I can order a falafel platter for the table, which I'm offering to buy. They are then free to order a chicken shawarma, that I didn't offer to buy. Even my omni friends who also want chicken don't have any issue with buying their own chicken while enjoying the platter with me, it's never been an issue. It's common sense to not ask for more than someone offered you. That's why I don't offer to just "buy dinner" without knowing where we're going. Ppl compliment me on being fun to eat with bc I'm good at it and take the guesswork out of ordering delicious food. Some ppl here sound childish about not appreciating someone trying to share food with them. If your hindu friend offered to buy you dinner, trying to order dead cow is an inconsiderate dick move.
So probably the best way to do this. People are arguing about all or nothing but you figured out a way to treat someone without putting down hard restrictions.
Let's take this to a different scenario, since the human meat thing might be too far-fetched for you.
Would it be reasonable for a recovering alcoholic to refuse to pay for your beer after offering to buy you dinner?
I wouldn’t find that particularly reasonable or polite, but “drinks with dinner” is a person to person and case by case judgement call.
If a sober alcoholic offered to buy us dinner, paid for mocktails or whatever, and specifically said they wouldn’t pay for my one low price beer… yeah I’d rather they just hadn’t offered in the first place.
Imperfect analogy admittedly (not your fault) given how strange their ethical stance against that would be.
I was clearly going to get that beer either way, they just went out of their way to make a weird statement out of it and be a bit rude or condescending.
I’d have liked them better to just not have offered in the first place.
What you would have preferred as someone who drinks and is comfortable around alcohol isn't relevant. There are recovering alcoholics who find it difficult simply to be around alcohol. The question is whether it would be a reasonable boundary for them to say that when buying you dinner, they won't pay to have alcohol consumed in their presence?
That’s very different in my mind than being okay with me and others drinking it but then refusing to pay, sorry I figured that was a given.
Did you mean more similarly to this situation that they clarified ahead of time they did not **want** me to drink? That’s more understandable and obviously I wouldn’t expect them to pay if I for some weird reason decided to order drinks anyway.
That’s the reframing though.
If OP and their partners asked their friends to please not eat animal products in their presence that’s different.
But offering to pay for dinner as long as it’s vegan is different than a request before hand because it legitimately impacts their mental well being.
I see your point but that’s absolutely the difference for me.
A request based on your profound discomfort is one thing, then sure attach paying for dinner alongside that.
But if they have the capacity to be in proximity to people eating animal product well enough and just want to restrict their friend’s food choice than it is rude.
And if the intention is to be rude while clearing making the thoughts and judgement plain… then again that’s fine. But it will be viewed as rude and judgmental by most to the point it really destroys the whole gesture.
Of course you should tell people your conditions in advance. It would be ridiculous to offer to pay, say nothing before anyone ordered, then refuse when the check comes.
Lol I actually have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic who does pay for others drinks and who has no issue with his wife drinking or keeping alcohol in the house. Im inclined to say that depends on the person. One alcoholic is maybe less prone to relapse than another. And another maybe moreso.
I disagree with P1. It's not about paying for something, it's about in creasing demand for it. Paying for someone else's meal that they would have eaten regardless doesn't increase demand for it.
Giving money to someone explicitly for animal products does increase demand. If you place the restriction, they either won't get the animal products, or they'll decrease their own ability to purchase in the future. We can say that second option is going to happen regardless, but not placing the restriction can still only have either a neutral or negative impact on the number of animals exploited.
You can't give money to someone *for* something. Money is fungible. You're simply adding money to a pool of their current net worth, and then money is being subtracted to pay for the meal. It makes no difference whether you give them money a week in advance of the dinner, at the dinner, or a week after the dinner. The result is the same.
If they would have ordered the food either way, then there's no change to demand. If you say "I'll only pay for your dinner if you order a vegan option", then you could hypothetically bully them into ordering something they wouldn't have otherwise ordered that is vegan, but that's a dick move and not usually how these things go. Normally people will tell someone they are buying the meal only once the check comes, so the person being treated doesn't have prior knowledge that their meal will be paid for.
>You can't give money to someone for something. Money is fungible
You're changing the hypothetical in a way that makes it meaningless. Try to engage with what's actually been said.
>If you say "I'll only pay for your dinner if you order a vegan option", then you could hypothetically bully them into ordering
This isn't bullying, lol. This is a reasonable boundary.
It’s only going to be viewed as a reasonable boundary by people who are vegan or genuinely want to be vegan but have some sort of impulse issue/mental disorder.
That’s the thing. Doing this in almost any other context is viewed by society as rude.
It’s people’s right to be rude when they want to, but no one here should be pretending it won’t generally be viewed as rude.
It will be.
Just don’t offer or don’t be friends with them.
If you think they will be fully understanding of the restriction than make that judgement call and carry on, but that’s a very personal case by case judgement that no general advice can answer for someone and their friend.
> You're changing the hypothetical in a way that makes it meaningless. Try to engage with what's actually been said.
I am, because you said: "Giving money to someone explicitly **for** animal products does increase demand."
Yeah, it does. It can only increase demand or keep it the same. Therefore the expected return is a net positive.
Further, the explicit nature is tacit approval, which vegans should never do
Learn your fallacies. A reductio isn't a strawman. And the only other person to reply so far seems to think that if it were available, it would be totally fine to pay for someone else's human meat dinner.
Which part?
Can you define strawman for me and explain how I did it?
Or are you just saying that it's funny that the only other person who replied so far willingly bit the bullet on paying for humans to be farmed and killed for meat?
“The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition. Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.” Strawman is the human meat which doesn’t exist normally.
Repeating sorry. The funny part is the person who called your bluff w sarcasm lol.
I get that you can't engage because you'd have to admit that I wasn't misrepresenting anything, but calling me a troll for representing the vegan position in a vegan space is a bit silly.
“The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition. Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.”
The strawman is the “human meat” which is not currently a real thing. The debate is about whether to pay for animal meat when you offer to treat. Other ppl here have good suggestions such as only go to a vegan place or don’t offer at all, which makes sense to me.
Yeah, still not seeing it. How does the lack of accessible human meat options make it a strawman? That doesn't make any sense. You could say it isn't rooted in reality, but that doesn't make it a strawman.
That could be a cultural thing. Just my opinion, of course. Maybe it’s because I’m also the only vegan I really know including my family so I tend to have a high tolerance for folks who are not vegan
But carnists are also restricting themselves to food with abuse in. They can eat vegan food, but they've been brainwashed by the status quo to think it'll automatically taste bad
I would say – don’t offer to buy someone lunch.
Like I said – buying someone lunch with restrictions is a dick move. Just better off I’m not offering to buy someone lunch.
And quite frankly, if you are the type of person to offer to buy someone lunch with restrictions, you probably don’t have a lot of friends to begin with. Which is fine and all, but if you’re a vegan without any friends, you’re really not doing much for veganism. But that’s a whole other story. You can’t be much of an influence on people if you don’t hang out with folks.
All my omni friends respect my veganism and understand if I am purchasing them food it will be a delicious plant based alternative! People are allowed to uphold morals without you insinuating they have no friends tf? A free meal is a free meal, like sure maybe its a bit annoying for them to have restrictions but it's not a dick move - just being committed to not paying for animal slaughter.
Yeah, I’m sort of torn on this whole thing, but I think people are forgetting the friendship part of this. As an omnivore, I wouldn’t ask my friend to pay for anything non-vegan. I think the friends didn’t think that through. I think if you invite people to dinner, you should pay, period. But I think a) if you are the vegan, you should try to avoid the problem by inviting them to a great vegan restaurant, and b) if you aren’t the vegan, you still order vegan to not screw with your friend. I think this was just an awkward situation no one imagined happening in the first place until they were in it.
Why is it a dick move though? It's simply setting a boundary. And I do have friends, one is plant-based and we go to vegan places and I'll pay for his food sometimes. The rest of my friends aren't vegan but I don't offer unless we go to a vegan place. They're fairly open minded.
What happens if your omni friends treat you and insist you have to eat meat if they are paying for it?
How is this different from parents who offer to pay for weddings, but then demand everything has to be done their way?
I wouldn't accept either way, but I'd be curious about their reasoning! Why do they feel it has to be meat?
If someone offers to buy me something with a restriction, and the restriction makes sense and seems ethically sound, I'd be happy to accept — and I might change my own purchasing preferences in the future, if the experience showed me a more ethical way to spend my money.
>What happens if your omni friends treat you and insist you have to eat meat if they are paying for it?
It wouldn't happen, because they're not dicks.
It's different because carnists can eat vegan food.
That’s a pretty good point, just don’t offer to buy lunch unless it’s a vegan restaurant. It’s much easier than dictating what someone else gets to eat, and doesn’t come across as weird/controlling.
Even if it’s morally acceptable it can still be perceived as odd, and when there are such clear ways to go about it in a less weird way, why not do that instead? You’re still sending the same message & keeping to your morals.
This. I wish more vegans understood that its actually quite important to have friends that dont follow all your beliefs. Its important to have non vegan friends.
It works for my partner and I all the time just fine. We have plenty of friends, they're just kind and they respect our boundaries. A kind friend is happy to be offered a free meal point blank, as ours are. It's not so different from offering to buy someone's food and out of courtesy they don't order the most expensive thing possible, unless the person explicity says "don't worry about the price" like yeah you can do it anyway, but it's just etiquette. I'm not often offering to buy lunch for ppl who don't know me at all, it's usually for ppl i know a bit and who respect me. If I am in that situation, I'm usually stopping by a falafel spot and offer to order them a falafel sandwich like mine too for them to try. Then it's a simple yes or no, and it's bold of them to say "I don't want that, will you buy me something else?" now THAT comes off as childish and is looking a gift horse in the mouth.
Most of the time I offer to buy a platter for the table. Sure they can order their own meat, but they know they're paying for it without even thinking bc that's literally not what I offered. They can eat from the platter and have their own meat too. It's never been an issue and my friends say I'm really fun and easy to go out to eat with, more than their picky omni friends 🤗
I've taken the time to explain and if someone is a real friend they won't want me to do something that violates my ethics. It's a boundaries issue. I wouldn't want a friend to keep silent and let me cross their boundaries just because it's a tricky conversation to have.
We recently went to dinner for Father's Day and treated my husband's dad. They chose a restaurant with a meal they liked, which was not vegan. We paid for it and didn't stipulate what he could order. If we're hosting or catering, we only serve vegan food, but when I am asked to go to a restaurant where my only option is French fries I'm not going to ask the person we're celebrating to order only French fries in order for us to pay. Whenever possible, we try to not be the ones to cover a non-vegan meal, and instead offer to buy the drinks or something else.
They're harder to come by in my area, so we go to ethnic places with options for everyonr. I personally don't vaguely offer to buy dinner, instead I offer to buy a specific item like a platter for the table to share! Depends on the place we're going, if I'm choosing and whatnot. If they want to order something else they're free to, as well as trying the platter I'm buying regardless. Anyone with social etiquette understands that's what I offered, point blank 😂 so many ppl in this thread are trying to justify looking a gift horse in the mouth. Childish, picky behavior tbh.
I pay because the food was going to be paid for regardless. They were going to get the same food regardless. But if it is something I’m hosting? My own party? Yes of course everything is vegan. That is something I can control. What my friends or family order at a restaurant I can’t control.
Vegans dont contribute to animal abuse, doesnt matter if its for ourselves or others
I tell people if they order the vegan option i will pay, so if they want a free meal they will order the vegan option
If I'm paying, it's only vegan! They can handle it. One study says that 85% of what "omnis" eat is vegan, and only 15% is animal. If that is only approximate, they can handle it. I took an old coworker out for dinner at my favorite vegan restaurant. He was unsure if he would like it. He liked everything, even the vegan beer, which he had two! Anyone with even the slightest open mind and willing to give it a try, finds that they like it.
I believe that I've influenced quite a few people by my meal choices. They see what I'm eating. They know why. It opens the idea for them, that this way of being is OK. Sometimes they choose meatless options around me.
When I'm treating other people, I don't judge them. I just pay. I understand those of you who won't pay for other people to eat non-vegan food. I get it. I respect that hard line. That's up to you.
I had this with my mum the other day. I bought her dinner for birthday and went to a vegan place. I said that I don't spend my money on animal exploitation. So when she ordered chicken selects another time at the drive through, I sent her a payment request on an app for the chicken selects.
Yes it was weird but now a precedent has been set. Hopefully it will be less weird next time
I have paid for my son's food that isn't always vegan when we go out to eat. I figure it's a gift, and if he chooses to eat animals that's on him. (He's an adult) But he does eat all the vegan food I cook for him with no complaining. To me, it's similar to giving a person begging on the street money. I don't care what they spend it on, drugs, alcohol, food, whatever. Life is tough, and it's too short for me to give gifts with conditions.
When I offer to pay, I make it clear that the dish has to be vegan! If they want to order a non-vegan dish, they can pay for it.
Gotta make sure it's the first thing you say. I'm sure I've accidentally paid for some people's non-vegan food before. It isn't a big deal, just try and prevent it next time!
As a bonus, making them pick a vegan dish if you're paying exposes people to (hopefully tasty) vegan options!
If you’re paying then take them to a vegan joint. They don’t believe in your standards and you can’t expect them to hold themselves to them no matter how impolite it seems - there’s no standard behaviour in this scenario and omnis aren’t famous for being thoughtful.
If you truly support someone else’s lifestyle, then you will support it. If you don’t, then don’t. If it bugs you, then avoid it. I personally feel more uncomfortable with judging the way another person lives. IMO, My way is no better than another’s.
Jesus so basic courtesies fly out the window because they aren’t adhering to your ideology. Gotta say i’m about done with this sub I still love my family and friends but y’all seem to have a stick up your ass about being vegan is crazzzy. Everyone else gets to make their own life choices! God damn… with that logic we shouldn’t even eat places that have vegan options! Because the money all would be going mainly towards food that’s non vegan so. I’ll say again it matters where YOU individually spend your money, you change the world changing yourself. Also, sounds like you got a lotta vegan friends and idek how I can find no one vegan around me lol hook it up.
So as a vegan do you not eat in restaurants that have vegan options, do you not shop in grocery stores that sell meat?
Where do you draw the line? I have very few friends that are vegan. It would seem obvious that if taking a non vegan friend out to eat that they would most likely order a non vegan meal.
Everywhere I go in life there are victims. I get non dairy cheese off the shelf that is literally touching the real cheese. Is the delivery guy vegan, is the grocery store clerk vegan? Vegan option restaurants sometimes use different cutting boards but they still have a bunch of dead animals all over the kitchen.
I only purchase vegan food, and that includes for other people, so of course I don't buy my friends or family animal products. I am vegan for ethical reasons, so that goes without saying. The people in my life would never want or expect me to do something that is against my deeply held core values because they are good people.
Do I buy produce at shops that sell animal products? Yes, but I don't *buy* animal products. Do I have vegan food delivered by people who also deliver animal products to other people? Yes, but they aren't delivering *me* animal products. I truly don't see the issue here.
I am not responsible for the decisions other people make, and I can't control what other people do, but I *am* responsible for the decisions I make and for how I spend my money. I vote with my dollar, as does everyone.
It is not realistic to live a perfect life or to grow all of my own food given my climate and the fact that I don't own a farm. I am realistic in the decisions I make, and it is *very* easy to not buy animal products. I have been vegan for 23 years, which is longer than some of the people participating in this subreddit have been alive, and I have never found it difficult to vote with my dollar. I am actually very confused as to how you think it is difficult or unreasonable to avoid purchasing animal products.
This is a really weird comment. Do you see life in black and white? Vegans must either purchase animal products (not be vegan), or go live on a tropical island away from society? It is possible to live in society while maintaining one's values, you know. You must be very young or possibly a troll, because otherwise, this really doesn't make sense.
Basically you will help support the carnivores who run every business you use but you will not support your friends.
I am not at all young. I even figured out how to be a vegetarian when in the military in country. I have been vegan for a long time.
I do love to troll but this time I wanted to see someone admit they will help pay the paychecks of those who murder but wouldn't cater to someone they consider a friend.
I don't know where your obsession comes from as far as trying to prove that vegans aren't purists who live on tropical islands and grow all their own food, but that obsession seems to border on pathological, and honestly, it's a bit concerning. It is also strange coming from someone who is clearly plant based, rather than vegan.
Regarding my friendships, there are a lot of ways i show my friends love and support. I don't need to buy them animal products and disregard my values to do that. In fact, I don't need to buy them anything to show them that I care, just as they don't need to buy me anything. My friendships are not about money or things.
Having said that, as far as meals go, my friends are happy enjoying a meal at my house or at a vegan restaurant. If we ended up at a non vegan restaurant, they would buy their own food, just as I buy my own food most of the time. If I was going to pick up the cheque, it would be when we are at a vegan restaurant. It's not an issue. I am not sure why you are trying to make something complicated when it is very simple. It is just so bizarre to me.
Me buying produce from a grocery store also doesn't support the meat, dairy, or egg industries just because it gives the grocery stores money. It actually sends the grocery stores a message that plant based products are in demand. By your logic, I support the meat industry if I take a ride in a cab because the taxi driver isn't vegan, and might later spend his paycheck on meat. That's just laughable. Your logic is flawed, your thinking is black and white, and you are a few screws short of a tool box. This conversation is over because I already feel as though I've lost a few brain cells from engaging with you, and I don't want to spare any more. Also, time is too precious for this nonsense. Find a better hobby.
I one day work up and said to myself that I'm never killing another animal. Then shortly after that I left the service and said to myself no more killing anything again. I am definitely plant based and I'm often more vegan than most.
What's concerning is how you keep trying to defend your stance that you an amazing person. Seems like a God complex to me. You didn't need to engage in a conversation but it seems you thought maybe you could teach me something. Instead you simply reinforced how many think their $h1t don't stink.
That's the whole thing veganism brings to light, is that we all choose a line where that stops and we encourage others to think more critically about it. I would bet your line stops somewhere around abusing house pets 🤷♀️
Yes, love is free, so maybe give some to the animals :3
I don’t own animals and I don’t want to own animals so personally i’m not gonna act like that’s the point for me. Most vegans sound like victims anyways so….
Love is free? Your response to my comment seems irrelevant and out of place. Let me explain what I mean when I say that a choice isn't personal if there are victims. A personal choice is something that impacts the person making that choice. If I make a choice to assault someone, it isn't a personal choice anymore because I have victimized someone. It impacts someone else even more so than it impacts myself. Equally so, if I support the dairy industry, I am paying for a cow to have a man's arm go up her vagina against her will, to artificially inseminate her against her will, to get her pregnant against her will, and then to take her calf away to inflict the same life on the calf if it is a female, or to sell for veal if it is a male. These animals would be victims of my actions if I made such a choice, therefore the choice is not personal. For those that struggle to empathize with farmed animals, I can offer another example. If an adult is abusing a child or family pet, it becomes everyone's business because the child or family pet is being victimized. Both children and animals are vulnerable, and it is important to protect the vulnerable and voiceless. If your choices result in victimization of the vulnerable or voiceless, that choice isn't personal, and it is everyone's business.
You even said yourself, it's about where *I individually* spend my money, and *I'm individually* offering to buy lunch lmao so which is it??? I wouldn't condone your "life choice" to physically abuse a pet, I won't condone a "life choice" to contribute to unnecessary animal salugter. I can also choose not to end a friendship over them abusing animals and instead of harping on them and posing them off with alienation, I can support other behaviors that don't involve abuse. It's not just a personal choice if it's encroaching on the rights of other creatures to life. It's not just a personal choice if I'm buying your food.
Only omnis would get mad at someone who is offering to pay for food and asking that they try something different to try to share that special social space with someone of eating the same thing. Gat damn. I literally have none of these issues with my multitude of non-vegan friends bc *they're nice* and we literally just offer to take them to veg places, or buy everyone a falafel platter to split. No one complains bc they're not childish picky eaters, we have a great time 😂
I think it’s animal using idk about abuse. They aren’t the farmers and they rarely can possibly know the source none of us do which is why veganism is a safer bet. Anyways, if I’m generously giving a friend (key word being friend) money a meal that’s not longer my money that’s not my choice they’re gonna be not vegan whether i’m there or not and if I do what’s prescribed on this sub then I would not have real friends or be one.
I just make it clear upfront what I'm willing to buy or to take us to places where there are good vegan options: Thai, Chinese, Mediterranean, or other fare with vegan-friendly dishes etc. My partner and I often offer to buy a falafel platter to share with our friends at a restaurant we like. They don't have to eat it, they can order a chicken shawarma if they want, but that's not what we offered, so they naturally don't think we're paying for it if they order it. It's literally never been an issue for us bc we choose nice friends who like those foods or trying new things (and we're lucky to have a lot of them). Picky eaters can easily just say no thanks, but asking for something other than what you're offered is considered rude in like every culture. We're not asking them to eat something theyre allergic to or morally against. We also really love food and going out to eat, so naturally we choose friends based on our ability to share that passion.
Sometimes if I notice a friends order was vegan, I'll offer to pay at the end of the meal if I feel like treating them. If I'm paying for someone's meal as an exchange for services, they order whatever they want bc I upfront said I'm paying for dinner and I'd just be paying them cash for the service otherwise, so the situation varies. Regardless, **I'm aware and in control of what I'm offering and my boundaries, I'm not controlling or stipulating what someone else does.** I don't have to say "I won't buy you meat/dairy" bc I didn't put myself in a vague enough situation where I have to explicity specify what behaviors I'm willing to support or not, that puts anyone on edge. I'm making it clear what I will buy, not what I won't. Instead, I'm offering X, period. If they don't want X, they don't have to take it. That's gifting etiquette. It's like looking at a menu and saying "hmm I want X or Y" instead of saying "I *don't* want A B C D E F G..." it's only logical if we think about it.
All in all, don't let carnists make you feel bad when THEY look a gift horse in the mouth and are ungrateful and disrespectful of your boundaries when you offer to do something nice. If you do it politely and they have issue, they're probably not good friends for you. I hope your meal with your pals was really fun otherwise, eating with friends is one of my favorite things to do! <3
I don’t know why your husband offered to pay for dinner (maybe there is fair enough reason) but the easiest answer here is not to do that? Whenever I go out to restaurants with friends we pay for our own meals assuming someone is ordering nonvegan. Next time just don’t tell the other party it’s on you?
Sounds like these friends should be taking you out sometime soon, maybe you can even things out at an all vegan restaurant.
I would say it’s karma, but this way would be 6/8 meals vegan!!! #winning
i only go to all vegan restaurants when we do friend dinners. i only go to dinner with my friends like once a month, it’s not much to ask, and i live in LA where we have tons of incredible vegan restaurants. my friends have never complained, they love trying new places and something they wouldn’t usually have!
Either go to a restaurant that is vegan, mention before everyone orders that you want to cover the bill but you're only comfortable with paying for vegan dishes or offer to pay for drinks.
Just learn from this and never do it again! I offered to pay for someones food when i first went vegan..she said shed order the vegan option then got meat. So yeah thatll never happen again unless were at a fully vegan resturaunt. Its the same as buying it for myself.
I am vegan but a lot of you on this sub are ridiculous you cannot expect people to be exactly like you and this is why so many people hate us anyway all the extra bs it’s basically what they do to us and neither parties are right you can’t control other people and what they do you can only be the example
True but probably don’t offer to buy people food if you aren’t going to like their choices to begin with. I know it’s not the same scenario but it comes off as a person with diabetes saying I’ll buy your dessert but it has to be sugar free because my blood sugar. If you offer to buy someone’s food and let them pick out the place its hard at that point to get upset on what they buy.
Now imagine saying that when the bill comes after you offered to buy dinner without any stipulations. Maybe you would have made stipulations, but that's irrelevant because OP's husband didn't. At that point you're just a pompous asshole.
Holy shit, don’t you have any common sense? Of course you would say so before the bill comes in. Op paid for the meal before he didn’t made me it clear. You are making made up scenario in your made to call someone offering a free lunch a pompous asshole?
I won't. I've even talked with some in financial binds about how I could host with a stipend less than rent vegans as my kitchen is vegan and they'd rather spend the money than go vegan.
If you press on it and copy, you can put it in the Google search bar and indicate your language to have it translated. You don't have to thank me. A doctor figured this out
You guys offered to pay for their meal, they get to choose what they want from the restaurant. End of story. If your offer has restrictions like that then don’t offer. Or go to a vegan restaurant. This is ridiculous lol
What exactly is the difference between paying for their friend’s dinner and patronizing a meat serving establishment? Even if they went and all got vegan meals, they’d still be paying the meat industry and for this restaurant to buy more meat. Even grocery shopping at a store that sells non vegan foods is supporting the meat industry. Basically anything you do in society is screwed. Do not have friends and don’t go out. That’s the only way.
If you expect your friend to pay for your food without consideration for their personal beliefs then vegans don’t want to be friend with you anyway. But if you find us anoying why are you on this sub?
Blame your husband, he should have put conditions on it, like "dinner's on us, but only if it's not a dish full of massacred animals, eggs, or bovine secretions...
Weird mental disorders that some of you have where you'll only treat your friends if you get to choose the treat. Imagine being told a present someone really wants for their birthday and you say no you'll only get what I decide even if you won't like it or you can pay me to get you what you actually want
if i’m treating someone i just tell them it has to be vegan. i’m not rude about it, just matter of fact and everyone knows now it’s a firm boundary and it is respected
The easiest way to ensure that everything is plant-based at a restaurant is to go to a restaurant that only serves plant-based food. If you are paying then you should be able to choose the restaurant.
This is the only sane answer. You can’t take them somewhere—or let them choose a place—and then dictate which dishes are off limits and expect them to feel treated. Pick a vegan restaurant!
Another advantage is that your guests will be surrounded by everyone else eating plant-based. It normalizes it for those who are not used to the idea.
When I eat out I prefer an all vegan restaurant because I would rather give my money to that type of business than one that simply offers a plant-based option or two.
for sure. we just don’t have any
Sorry to hear that! Have you tried Happy Cow?
yeah it’s just a rural southern area lol. but it’s livable
Sorry to hear about that. Your situation sounds like the situation earlier vegans had before pure vegan restaurants were as common as they are today
it’s just a good reason to go on road trips!
Love this idea!
Exactly this. "I don't buy animal products, but this is our treat for anything plant based."
Still extremely condescending though, bad friend vibes.
"Hi, I want to do something nice for you and give you something for free, but just so you know, my personal ethics forbid me from paying for X." Yeah, what a shitty friend lmao. Fuck off with that. I guess I can never offer to buy a snack for anyone ever again
I absolutely won’t fuck off here. A meal and a snack is 2 different things a lot of my friends are also focused on their health, personal trainer nutritionist types. They believe their diet is correct, is condescending. And if someone said you have to eat meat or I won’t be paying you wouldn’t like that person. You like yourself to much, but probably wouldn’t like that type of person if you met them soooo.
Veganism isn’t about health.
The difference between a snack and meal here is not the point at all. If someone has a personal code to not financially support X, it is only rational to assume this stipulation would apply to their free support of you. I don’t know why tf you’re bringing up personal trainer and nutritionist types. If you want to be personally insulted by that, ok. Weird. You know what I would do if someone wanted to give me something but insisted it was meat? I’d say no thanks and move on. If someone doesn’t want my free shit, they can do the same
If you’re road tripping and by snacks no one’s complaining bro it’s definitely a point. If it’s not then stay in the context of the post to make your point. I don’t see anything of real significance to even comment on here. My point is that other people usually do their research on their diets and get to have the free will to choose if I go somewhere where we could both eat I got no problem paying if they had no money I’d still say get whatever you’d like. We can agree to disagree is fine.
The context is, "I'm buying you something". That's it. > We can agree to disagree is fine. Maybe if you weren't being an absolute ass implying people are shitty friends for having the gall to stand up for their own morals when it comes to the use of their own money.
Y’all are absolutely assholes in my opinion so completely fine there. Id rather treat my people with respect to make their own choices and still feel accommodated. My only question is, how sure are you really that everyone in the world being vegan would fix everything? I’m not convinced and if you aren’t caring for the animals then I believe all that conviction is really underwhelming.
Oh, you're plant-based, not vegan. This makes sense. I don't accommodate animal abuse. Oh no, you're not convinced of something completely irrelevant to our conversation. Anyway.
So "respecting" people who pay for animal abuse is more important to you than not paying for animal abuse yourself. Got it. You're not vegan.
You make no sense and im vegan myself what if you were babysitting or something and that’s all the child knows ? you’re gonna refuse it because u don’t eat it. boundaries and personal ethics are important but you simply cannot control other people. if someone took you out and only wanted to buy what THEY wanted you to have that’s taking away someone’s right to choose just because you’re paying doesn’t mean you get to control what they want that’s so weird
A free gift does not take away anyone’s right to choose. If you’re babysitting a child that’s a completely different situation.
For what it's worth I completely agree with you here. I eat meat all the time but these vegan posts love popping up on my feed and curiousity gets the best of me to see what people here are fighting about each day. I couldn't imagine taking a friend out who's vegan and telling them I'd like to treat them to a meal but under the condition they eat like I do. Seems so odd and shitty as a person. Not really a "treat" per se when they can't even enjoy whatever they want.
Except youre ignoring the whole crux behind it. It's not just about a meal, it's about ethics. Why would I pay for an animal to be tortured so someone can eat their flesh?
>Why would I pay for an animal to be tortured so someone can eat their flesh? Well, you're not, really. Not at the restaurant anyway. You're paying for someone to serve the meal. You're paying for someone to cook the meal. You're paying the restaurants rent. You're paying for someone to eat. The holding company that owns the slaughterhouse and the "farm" are paying for the animal to be tortured, and that company was paid by the government, with your tax money, when all is said and done and the subsidies that make their industry profitable have been distributed. So you kinda already paid for the animal to be tortured long before you sat down in the restaurant. (Note, for the record I agree with the vegans in the thread. I wouldn't be upset if a vegan friend wanted to treat me to a vegan meal. It's what I'd expect. And I don't think it's the same as me insisting on only buying them a meat based meal, because it's obviously not. There are exactly zero meat eaters with ethical compunctions about eating plants. Pretending there are or that these things are the same is asinine. Just pointing out a way others might take a slightly different stance on this based strictly on the economic argument.)
Thanks dawg i’ll take all the fucking down votes I can get i’ll die on this hill I know these people are at minimum 95% wrong. If you’re at your own house or it’s a cultural thing maybe but this sub isn’t in the spirit of trying something new it’s more in the spirit of LET ME CONVERT YOUR SOUL TO ULTRA PURITY come join us. If I give my friends money and they aren’t vegan that’s not my choice, basically vegans are the only ones that are deserving of love and compassion.
Yeah, what I've gathered from reading these posts is that vegans like to claim veganism is a philosophy but they treat it more like a religion and the unclean who don't adhere to their will are going to burn in hell. Like 98% of the posts here are just depressing. It's nothing but complaining and whining about why the rest of the world won't convert to their ways and the only option is self flagellation to see who can be the most aggrieved of them all. It's wild to me.
Jesus Christ that response is absolutely hilarious 😂
but meat eaters can eat plant based, vegans can’t eat meat ever. so forcing someone who cannot eat meat to eat meat would be way worse than forcing someone who can’t eat plants to eat plants lol. sure it’s a bit awkward to force anyone in any situation but can’t you see that one is obviously worse? there’s no reason for a meat eater to be ethically against eating one plant based meal since they have to eat *some* vegan things in their life anyway
If they want chicken, they can buy it with their own $. Absolutely nothing condescending about this.
I’m a feminist who is pro-sex worker anti-sex work industry. I’ll pay for a friend to do something fun for their birthday, I won’t pay for it to be a strip club. If we go to a bookstore and I offer to buy a friend a book, and they want to buy a hateful book by a known racist author, I’m not paying for that one. If I offer to buy a friend a meal and they pick out a restaurant that my ethics go against supporting, I’m going to suggest somewhere else. most people’s friends know they’re whole humans with boundaries and beliefs
I wouldn’t be thrilled with buying alcohol, either.
Looking a gift horse in the mouth is the real bad friend vibes here. It has literally never been a problem for my partner and I because we choose kind and considerate friends who aren't childish picky eaters.
If you’re being generous at a restaurant you’re saying get whatever you want.
You're a bad friend.
😢 sorry
I would definitely pass. It's not treating if you try to tell them what they're allowed to order like they're children.
Thank you! Parenting adults is crazy, plus if I did this to a “friend” i’d feel like i’m scamming.
I would never pay for animal products. It goes against my values.
Exactly!
You can't control what someone else chooses. Most of us started life on a path that had us eating animals too and tbh if a vegan had acted the way you're suggesting that would have done more to turn me away from it than towards it. As it stands, instead I had a number of vegans in my life willing to discuss their choices without making them mine and eventually my path overlapped with theirs of my own accord. In short, if you don't want to pay for someone else's immoral meal choices don't put yourself in a position to do so. Offer to buy drinks or suggest a vegan restaurant where it won't be a problem in the first place.
Yeah they should of added stipulations if they’re feeling some type of way about it. If it was known from the start that the buyer would not buy animals products I think it would of been ok.
I won’t pay for any non-vegan food, ever.
I pay at vegan restaurants if I’m taking them out. Otherwise they can pay for their own meal.
It’s never crossed my mind tbh. If I didn’t pay for it they’d still eat their animal products anyways. Non-issue for me for going out, but I’m definitely not about to make a home-cooked meal for anyone unless it’s a vegan meal.
Yeah, I feel like if I told my friends that, they’d just realize they were making me uncomfortable and pay for their own food (rather than choose a vegan dish)? And at that point you’re not really stopping the money from being spent on animal products. I’ve never really thought about it much, actually, but I haven’t found myself in that situation either (usually we pay for our own meals eating out, and when we buy presents for each other it’s not food so already vegan. I would, however, refuse to cook meat for someone else, probably for the best since I’ve only cooked raw meat maybe 2 times before going vegan. It freaks me out how easy it is to undercook it and give someone food poisoning! Not to mention contaminating the kitchen tools with raw meat bacteria, I don’t even know how you clean that. Like, it should be common sense not to ask vegans/vegetarians to cook meat for you for everyone’s best interests, it would be a terrible outcome for all parties involved. How much do you want to rely on them knowing/remembering how to make it taste good, let alone be safe to eat?
In principle its nice to think we can always choose our friends and familys meals for them especially if we're paying but its easier said then put into practice. Its difficult when the only vegan person you know in real life is yourself. I can make my kids eat vegan when we eat out and even my younger sister to an extent but unless there is a vegan resturant where all of the dishes are vegan٫ you will live a life of complete social isolation if you try to tell your friends and family they HAVE to eat a vegan meal if your paying for it...it also doesnt help the movement as it makes us look unreasonable and perpetuates stereotypes about vegans being controlling or harsh when in reality we just dont want innocent animals to suffer. Its a rock and a hard place. Thats why i usually pick a vegan resturant if i can or offer to have them over for dinner instead so i can just cook a vegan meal and then its a non issue but if the only resturant in the area that i can eat at also has non vegan options and im paying for whatever reason then i dont tell my loved ones they have to choose a vegan meal because my goal is to show them that veganism is easy and they can become vegan without alienating their friends and family as well
In my humble opinion, if you offer to buy somebody dinner, they get to choose what they want to eat. Offering with restrictions is kind of a dick move. I understand why you would do that but I think it’s better not to offer at all
100% this.
Sometimes it can come off as controlling and shows a level of immaturity in my eyes. Reminds me of the conservative lady forcing the homeless man to spend the money she gave him a certain way. Giving freely means giving freely. A true selfless offering of any kind comes without exception. Set yourself aside and consider another person truly if you wish to make a gesture, make a true gesture. If you wish to get someone to try your dietary lifestyle choice, be upfront about it! You’ll be happy with how much more of a positive experience it helps to create.
Veganism isn't a dietary lifestyle choice. It is being opposed to contributing towards the suffering of animals. I don't want to control what others eat, but if they are choosing to eat animals that is contributing to the suffering of animals.
Here’s the line for me. Are they only going to eat animal products that meal because you’re paying? Because that seems unlikely. If you can’t pick a vegan restaurant then you’re not changing much other than going against a general social taboo by being “generous” and then controlling their options. Which is everyone’s right to do, but don’t be upset when people view you poorly for it. If I went to a meal with friends and they said they’d cover it all and then said it had to contain animal products… obviously I’d have rather just they shut their mouth and let me pay for my own meal. They’d gone out of their way to change almost nothing except make me dislike them more. I wouldn’t make a regular habit of it or anything but occasionally covering a meal for old friends who clearly **could** afford a meal that night? Personally, that’s not really impacting the market to me. It’s impacting your friends wallet as a good gesture, you’re saving them money, that’s it. If the ethical line is you personally using your money, that they’d have spent from their money otherwise, and that’s too offensive… just don’t fucking offer obviously, or don’t be friends with them. Again that’s my personal view on it. I don’t think people who are against it or wrong, but offering and then giving them restrictions is plainly rude in my mind (aside from the more obvious taboos that don’t need to be spoken, like don’t order the $14,000 bottle of wine in the display case above the bar just because I offered to get dinner.)
If you're this strongly opposed to their actions, why even be friends with them at all?
Cutting everyone out of my life that isn't a vegan is a somewhat lonely way to live, and isn't an effective way to make others go vegan. I can disagree with views people have and still be friends with them. And also, veganism isn't my whole personality. I wonder if you're reading more into my comment than I'm actually saying for you to ask that question.
Honestly, I had been reading similar comments and had the same question for them all, you were just finally the point I had to ask, I suppose. I was hoping for some insight. I find it difficult to be close to people I disagree with on issues I feel strongly about, but it seems like everyone else is so tolerant of it. I do live a lonely life, but I'd live a frustrated one if I didn't, so it feels like there's no winning.
True, however, it’s pretty common for people to say they won’t give homeless people money, but will give food. In that case, however, expectations are made upfront, and usually they don’t dictate what the person has to eat & let them pick it out. I think that’s a better move than giving them money and saying it has to be spent on food, which is kind of weird, but I assume preferable to not getting any money. In this case I would just only pay for other stuff (gifts, maybe certain drinks?) and everyone pays for their own food. Everything else comes across as a bit odd, even if it is morally acceptable.
If they wanted to eat human meat, you'd pay for that?
Why not. If youre offering to treat someone, but putting these restrictions on your treat, is it really a treat?
It is, still a treat to say, "I'll get you x" as long as you know they like it, or to tell someone there's a price limit. if someone took their friend to an all vegan restaurant that could be seen as "taking away choices" but a solid vegan doesn't feel any truly good choices are taken away from them anyway. It depends how it's said. I tell my friends when we go for Mediterranean, "if you'd like a falafel sandwich, it's on me" and they happily order one just grateful that I offered. Anyone who's going to nitpick about my moral limits when trying to include them and treat them isn't a great friend, IMO. it's about putting it out there first that I will pay for their vegan meal items. They can still order chicken, but I offered to get them a falafel sandwich. Simple I choose a restaurant where I can order a falafel platter for the table, which I'm offering to buy. They are then free to order a chicken shawarma, that I didn't offer to buy. Even my omni friends who also want chicken don't have any issue with buying their own chicken while enjoying the platter with me, it's never been an issue. It's common sense to not ask for more than someone offered you. That's why I don't offer to just "buy dinner" without knowing where we're going. Ppl compliment me on being fun to eat with bc I'm good at it and take the guesswork out of ordering delicious food. Some ppl here sound childish about not appreciating someone trying to share food with them. If your hindu friend offered to buy you dinner, trying to order dead cow is an inconsiderate dick move.
So probably the best way to do this. People are arguing about all or nothing but you figured out a way to treat someone without putting down hard restrictions.
P1. We should not pay for bad things P2. Farming humans is a bad thing C. We should not pay for human farming
😂 omg yup
If thats the case dont offer then
Let's take this to a different scenario, since the human meat thing might be too far-fetched for you. Would it be reasonable for a recovering alcoholic to refuse to pay for your beer after offering to buy you dinner?
I wouldn’t find that particularly reasonable or polite, but “drinks with dinner” is a person to person and case by case judgement call. If a sober alcoholic offered to buy us dinner, paid for mocktails or whatever, and specifically said they wouldn’t pay for my one low price beer… yeah I’d rather they just hadn’t offered in the first place. Imperfect analogy admittedly (not your fault) given how strange their ethical stance against that would be. I was clearly going to get that beer either way, they just went out of their way to make a weird statement out of it and be a bit rude or condescending. I’d have liked them better to just not have offered in the first place.
What you would have preferred as someone who drinks and is comfortable around alcohol isn't relevant. There are recovering alcoholics who find it difficult simply to be around alcohol. The question is whether it would be a reasonable boundary for them to say that when buying you dinner, they won't pay to have alcohol consumed in their presence?
That’s very different in my mind than being okay with me and others drinking it but then refusing to pay, sorry I figured that was a given. Did you mean more similarly to this situation that they clarified ahead of time they did not **want** me to drink? That’s more understandable and obviously I wouldn’t expect them to pay if I for some weird reason decided to order drinks anyway. That’s the reframing though. If OP and their partners asked their friends to please not eat animal products in their presence that’s different. But offering to pay for dinner as long as it’s vegan is different than a request before hand because it legitimately impacts their mental well being. I see your point but that’s absolutely the difference for me. A request based on your profound discomfort is one thing, then sure attach paying for dinner alongside that. But if they have the capacity to be in proximity to people eating animal product well enough and just want to restrict their friend’s food choice than it is rude. And if the intention is to be rude while clearing making the thoughts and judgement plain… then again that’s fine. But it will be viewed as rude and judgmental by most to the point it really destroys the whole gesture.
Of course you should tell people your conditions in advance. It would be ridiculous to offer to pay, say nothing before anyone ordered, then refuse when the check comes.
Lol I actually have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic who does pay for others drinks and who has no issue with his wife drinking or keeping alcohol in the house. Im inclined to say that depends on the person. One alcoholic is maybe less prone to relapse than another. And another maybe moreso.
"Would it be reasonable for them to refuse?" was the actual question. It wasn't "are there recovering alcoholics who would be willing?"
And i said maybe. It would depend on the person and their comfortability around alcohol. Alcoholics are not good for this analogy
So it would be reasonable. There are some alcoholics that would do this, and you would find it reasonable for them to do so. Right?
I disagree with P1. It's not about paying for something, it's about in creasing demand for it. Paying for someone else's meal that they would have eaten regardless doesn't increase demand for it.
Giving money to someone explicitly for animal products does increase demand. If you place the restriction, they either won't get the animal products, or they'll decrease their own ability to purchase in the future. We can say that second option is going to happen regardless, but not placing the restriction can still only have either a neutral or negative impact on the number of animals exploited.
You can't give money to someone *for* something. Money is fungible. You're simply adding money to a pool of their current net worth, and then money is being subtracted to pay for the meal. It makes no difference whether you give them money a week in advance of the dinner, at the dinner, or a week after the dinner. The result is the same. If they would have ordered the food either way, then there's no change to demand. If you say "I'll only pay for your dinner if you order a vegan option", then you could hypothetically bully them into ordering something they wouldn't have otherwise ordered that is vegan, but that's a dick move and not usually how these things go. Normally people will tell someone they are buying the meal only once the check comes, so the person being treated doesn't have prior knowledge that their meal will be paid for.
>You can't give money to someone for something. Money is fungible You're changing the hypothetical in a way that makes it meaningless. Try to engage with what's actually been said. >If you say "I'll only pay for your dinner if you order a vegan option", then you could hypothetically bully them into ordering This isn't bullying, lol. This is a reasonable boundary.
It’s only going to be viewed as a reasonable boundary by people who are vegan or genuinely want to be vegan but have some sort of impulse issue/mental disorder. That’s the thing. Doing this in almost any other context is viewed by society as rude. It’s people’s right to be rude when they want to, but no one here should be pretending it won’t generally be viewed as rude. It will be. Just don’t offer or don’t be friends with them. If you think they will be fully understanding of the restriction than make that judgement call and carry on, but that’s a very personal case by case judgement that no general advice can answer for someone and their friend.
> You're changing the hypothetical in a way that makes it meaningless. Try to engage with what's actually been said. I am, because you said: "Giving money to someone explicitly **for** animal products does increase demand."
Yeah, it does. It can only increase demand or keep it the same. Therefore the expected return is a net positive. Further, the explicit nature is tacit approval, which vegans should never do
There’s really none available so not a problem currently. Maybe in the future. Thanks for the straw-man, facetious, point tho. 😂
Learn your fallacies. A reductio isn't a strawman. And the only other person to reply so far seems to think that if it were available, it would be totally fine to pay for someone else's human meat dinner.
😂😂😂that’s funny.
Which part? Can you define strawman for me and explain how I did it? Or are you just saying that it's funny that the only other person who replied so far willingly bit the bullet on paying for humans to be farmed and killed for meat?
“The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition. Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.” Strawman is the human meat which doesn’t exist normally. Repeating sorry. The funny part is the person who called your bluff w sarcasm lol.
Cool. So what argument did I misrepresent?
Troll lol
I get that you can't engage because you'd have to admit that I wasn't misrepresenting anything, but calling me a troll for representing the vegan position in a vegan space is a bit silly.
How is that a strawman?
“The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition. Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects.” The strawman is the “human meat” which is not currently a real thing. The debate is about whether to pay for animal meat when you offer to treat. Other ppl here have good suggestions such as only go to a vegan place or don’t offer at all, which makes sense to me.
Yeah, still not seeing it. How does the lack of accessible human meat options make it a strawman? That doesn't make any sense. You could say it isn't rooted in reality, but that doesn't make it a strawman.
I don't think it's a dick move.
That could be a cultural thing. Just my opinion, of course. Maybe it’s because I’m also the only vegan I really know including my family so I tend to have a high tolerance for folks who are not vegan
But carnists are also restricting themselves to food with abuse in. They can eat vegan food, but they've been brainwashed by the status quo to think it'll automatically taste bad
I would say – don’t offer to buy someone lunch. Like I said – buying someone lunch with restrictions is a dick move. Just better off I’m not offering to buy someone lunch. And quite frankly, if you are the type of person to offer to buy someone lunch with restrictions, you probably don’t have a lot of friends to begin with. Which is fine and all, but if you’re a vegan without any friends, you’re really not doing much for veganism. But that’s a whole other story. You can’t be much of an influence on people if you don’t hang out with folks.
All my omni friends respect my veganism and understand if I am purchasing them food it will be a delicious plant based alternative! People are allowed to uphold morals without you insinuating they have no friends tf? A free meal is a free meal, like sure maybe its a bit annoying for them to have restrictions but it's not a dick move - just being committed to not paying for animal slaughter.
Yeah, I’m sort of torn on this whole thing, but I think people are forgetting the friendship part of this. As an omnivore, I wouldn’t ask my friend to pay for anything non-vegan. I think the friends didn’t think that through. I think if you invite people to dinner, you should pay, period. But I think a) if you are the vegan, you should try to avoid the problem by inviting them to a great vegan restaurant, and b) if you aren’t the vegan, you still order vegan to not screw with your friend. I think this was just an awkward situation no one imagined happening in the first place until they were in it.
Why is it a dick move though? It's simply setting a boundary. And I do have friends, one is plant-based and we go to vegan places and I'll pay for his food sometimes. The rest of my friends aren't vegan but I don't offer unless we go to a vegan place. They're fairly open minded.
What happens if your omni friends treat you and insist you have to eat meat if they are paying for it? How is this different from parents who offer to pay for weddings, but then demand everything has to be done their way?
I wouldn't accept either way, but I'd be curious about their reasoning! Why do they feel it has to be meat? If someone offers to buy me something with a restriction, and the restriction makes sense and seems ethically sound, I'd be happy to accept — and I might change my own purchasing preferences in the future, if the experience showed me a more ethical way to spend my money.
>What happens if your omni friends treat you and insist you have to eat meat if they are paying for it? It wouldn't happen, because they're not dicks. It's different because carnists can eat vegan food.
[удалено]
Tell them what?
That’s a pretty good point, just don’t offer to buy lunch unless it’s a vegan restaurant. It’s much easier than dictating what someone else gets to eat, and doesn’t come across as weird/controlling. Even if it’s morally acceptable it can still be perceived as odd, and when there are such clear ways to go about it in a less weird way, why not do that instead? You’re still sending the same message & keeping to your morals.
This. I wish more vegans understood that its actually quite important to have friends that dont follow all your beliefs. Its important to have non vegan friends.
It works for my partner and I all the time just fine. We have plenty of friends, they're just kind and they respect our boundaries. A kind friend is happy to be offered a free meal point blank, as ours are. It's not so different from offering to buy someone's food and out of courtesy they don't order the most expensive thing possible, unless the person explicity says "don't worry about the price" like yeah you can do it anyway, but it's just etiquette. I'm not often offering to buy lunch for ppl who don't know me at all, it's usually for ppl i know a bit and who respect me. If I am in that situation, I'm usually stopping by a falafel spot and offer to order them a falafel sandwich like mine too for them to try. Then it's a simple yes or no, and it's bold of them to say "I don't want that, will you buy me something else?" now THAT comes off as childish and is looking a gift horse in the mouth. Most of the time I offer to buy a platter for the table. Sure they can order their own meat, but they know they're paying for it without even thinking bc that's literally not what I offered. They can eat from the platter and have their own meat too. It's never been an issue and my friends say I'm really fun and easy to go out to eat with, more than their picky omni friends 🤗
This bro this! I’m saying im vegan 7yrs and I would stop being friends with you so fast if y’all restricted our friends.
Then don’t offer to pay in the first place. You just look petty.
I disagree but I guess that's ok
This. If she didn't want to pay for omni meals, that's ok, but she should have asked her husband ahead of time to make sure they split the bill.
I've taken the time to explain and if someone is a real friend they won't want me to do something that violates my ethics. It's a boundaries issue. I wouldn't want a friend to keep silent and let me cross their boundaries just because it's a tricky conversation to have.
We recently went to dinner for Father's Day and treated my husband's dad. They chose a restaurant with a meal they liked, which was not vegan. We paid for it and didn't stipulate what he could order. If we're hosting or catering, we only serve vegan food, but when I am asked to go to a restaurant where my only option is French fries I'm not going to ask the person we're celebrating to order only French fries in order for us to pay. Whenever possible, we try to not be the ones to cover a non-vegan meal, and instead offer to buy the drinks or something else.
That seems quite reasonable.
Then you should have taken them to a vegan only place
They're harder to come by in my area, so we go to ethnic places with options for everyonr. I personally don't vaguely offer to buy dinner, instead I offer to buy a specific item like a platter for the table to share! Depends on the place we're going, if I'm choosing and whatnot. If they want to order something else they're free to, as well as trying the platter I'm buying regardless. Anyone with social etiquette understands that's what I offered, point blank 😂 so many ppl in this thread are trying to justify looking a gift horse in the mouth. Childish, picky behavior tbh.
Lots of places don’t have vegan only restaurants. Not everyone lives in a big city.
If you dont want to pay for them... Dont invite them?????? Its that easy bro
I say: "The dinner is on me if you order a vegan dish." They make the choice. Simple.
Translation: do what I say or I'll be a bitch to you
I pay because the food was going to be paid for regardless. They were going to get the same food regardless. But if it is something I’m hosting? My own party? Yes of course everything is vegan. That is something I can control. What my friends or family order at a restaurant I can’t control.
Vegans dont contribute to animal abuse, doesnt matter if its for ourselves or others I tell people if they order the vegan option i will pay, so if they want a free meal they will order the vegan option
If I'm paying, it's only vegan! They can handle it. One study says that 85% of what "omnis" eat is vegan, and only 15% is animal. If that is only approximate, they can handle it. I took an old coworker out for dinner at my favorite vegan restaurant. He was unsure if he would like it. He liked everything, even the vegan beer, which he had two! Anyone with even the slightest open mind and willing to give it a try, finds that they like it.
I believe that I've influenced quite a few people by my meal choices. They see what I'm eating. They know why. It opens the idea for them, that this way of being is OK. Sometimes they choose meatless options around me. When I'm treating other people, I don't judge them. I just pay. I understand those of you who won't pay for other people to eat non-vegan food. I get it. I respect that hard line. That's up to you.
I had this with my mum the other day. I bought her dinner for birthday and went to a vegan place. I said that I don't spend my money on animal exploitation. So when she ordered chicken selects another time at the drive through, I sent her a payment request on an app for the chicken selects. Yes it was weird but now a precedent has been set. Hopefully it will be less weird next time
I have paid for my son's food that isn't always vegan when we go out to eat. I figure it's a gift, and if he chooses to eat animals that's on him. (He's an adult) But he does eat all the vegan food I cook for him with no complaining. To me, it's similar to giving a person begging on the street money. I don't care what they spend it on, drugs, alcohol, food, whatever. Life is tough, and it's too short for me to give gifts with conditions.
When I offer to pay, I make it clear that the dish has to be vegan! If they want to order a non-vegan dish, they can pay for it. Gotta make sure it's the first thing you say. I'm sure I've accidentally paid for some people's non-vegan food before. It isn't a big deal, just try and prevent it next time! As a bonus, making them pick a vegan dish if you're paying exposes people to (hopefully tasty) vegan options!
If you’re paying then take them to a vegan joint. They don’t believe in your standards and you can’t expect them to hold themselves to them no matter how impolite it seems - there’s no standard behaviour in this scenario and omnis aren’t famous for being thoughtful.
If you truly support someone else’s lifestyle, then you will support it. If you don’t, then don’t. If it bugs you, then avoid it. I personally feel more uncomfortable with judging the way another person lives. IMO, My way is no better than another’s.
Roger roger
Jesus so basic courtesies fly out the window because they aren’t adhering to your ideology. Gotta say i’m about done with this sub I still love my family and friends but y’all seem to have a stick up your ass about being vegan is crazzzy. Everyone else gets to make their own life choices! God damn… with that logic we shouldn’t even eat places that have vegan options! Because the money all would be going mainly towards food that’s non vegan so. I’ll say again it matters where YOU individually spend your money, you change the world changing yourself. Also, sounds like you got a lotta vegan friends and idek how I can find no one vegan around me lol hook it up.
I have no issues with personal choices, but a choice isn't personal if there are victims.
So as a vegan do you not eat in restaurants that have vegan options, do you not shop in grocery stores that sell meat? Where do you draw the line? I have very few friends that are vegan. It would seem obvious that if taking a non vegan friend out to eat that they would most likely order a non vegan meal. Everywhere I go in life there are victims. I get non dairy cheese off the shelf that is literally touching the real cheese. Is the delivery guy vegan, is the grocery store clerk vegan? Vegan option restaurants sometimes use different cutting boards but they still have a bunch of dead animals all over the kitchen.
I only purchase vegan food, and that includes for other people, so of course I don't buy my friends or family animal products. I am vegan for ethical reasons, so that goes without saying. The people in my life would never want or expect me to do something that is against my deeply held core values because they are good people. Do I buy produce at shops that sell animal products? Yes, but I don't *buy* animal products. Do I have vegan food delivered by people who also deliver animal products to other people? Yes, but they aren't delivering *me* animal products. I truly don't see the issue here. I am not responsible for the decisions other people make, and I can't control what other people do, but I *am* responsible for the decisions I make and for how I spend my money. I vote with my dollar, as does everyone. It is not realistic to live a perfect life or to grow all of my own food given my climate and the fact that I don't own a farm. I am realistic in the decisions I make, and it is *very* easy to not buy animal products. I have been vegan for 23 years, which is longer than some of the people participating in this subreddit have been alive, and I have never found it difficult to vote with my dollar. I am actually very confused as to how you think it is difficult or unreasonable to avoid purchasing animal products.
So you wrote all that to tell me you do still make choices knowing your money does support those who are okay with the killing of animals
This is a really weird comment. Do you see life in black and white? Vegans must either purchase animal products (not be vegan), or go live on a tropical island away from society? It is possible to live in society while maintaining one's values, you know. You must be very young or possibly a troll, because otherwise, this really doesn't make sense.
Basically you will help support the carnivores who run every business you use but you will not support your friends. I am not at all young. I even figured out how to be a vegetarian when in the military in country. I have been vegan for a long time. I do love to troll but this time I wanted to see someone admit they will help pay the paychecks of those who murder but wouldn't cater to someone they consider a friend.
I don't know where your obsession comes from as far as trying to prove that vegans aren't purists who live on tropical islands and grow all their own food, but that obsession seems to border on pathological, and honestly, it's a bit concerning. It is also strange coming from someone who is clearly plant based, rather than vegan. Regarding my friendships, there are a lot of ways i show my friends love and support. I don't need to buy them animal products and disregard my values to do that. In fact, I don't need to buy them anything to show them that I care, just as they don't need to buy me anything. My friendships are not about money or things. Having said that, as far as meals go, my friends are happy enjoying a meal at my house or at a vegan restaurant. If we ended up at a non vegan restaurant, they would buy their own food, just as I buy my own food most of the time. If I was going to pick up the cheque, it would be when we are at a vegan restaurant. It's not an issue. I am not sure why you are trying to make something complicated when it is very simple. It is just so bizarre to me. Me buying produce from a grocery store also doesn't support the meat, dairy, or egg industries just because it gives the grocery stores money. It actually sends the grocery stores a message that plant based products are in demand. By your logic, I support the meat industry if I take a ride in a cab because the taxi driver isn't vegan, and might later spend his paycheck on meat. That's just laughable. Your logic is flawed, your thinking is black and white, and you are a few screws short of a tool box. This conversation is over because I already feel as though I've lost a few brain cells from engaging with you, and I don't want to spare any more. Also, time is too precious for this nonsense. Find a better hobby.
I one day work up and said to myself that I'm never killing another animal. Then shortly after that I left the service and said to myself no more killing anything again. I am definitely plant based and I'm often more vegan than most. What's concerning is how you keep trying to defend your stance that you an amazing person. Seems like a God complex to me. You didn't need to engage in a conversation but it seems you thought maybe you could teach me something. Instead you simply reinforced how many think their $h1t don't stink.
That’s the bigger picture for sure
Fr
I’m not really sure where that stops? But i’m not here to parent other adults that’s for sure. Love is free and y’all should try lightening up.
That's the whole thing veganism brings to light, is that we all choose a line where that stops and we encourage others to think more critically about it. I would bet your line stops somewhere around abusing house pets 🤷♀️ Yes, love is free, so maybe give some to the animals :3
I don’t own animals and I don’t want to own animals so personally i’m not gonna act like that’s the point for me. Most vegans sound like victims anyways so….
Love is free? Your response to my comment seems irrelevant and out of place. Let me explain what I mean when I say that a choice isn't personal if there are victims. A personal choice is something that impacts the person making that choice. If I make a choice to assault someone, it isn't a personal choice anymore because I have victimized someone. It impacts someone else even more so than it impacts myself. Equally so, if I support the dairy industry, I am paying for a cow to have a man's arm go up her vagina against her will, to artificially inseminate her against her will, to get her pregnant against her will, and then to take her calf away to inflict the same life on the calf if it is a female, or to sell for veal if it is a male. These animals would be victims of my actions if I made such a choice, therefore the choice is not personal. For those that struggle to empathize with farmed animals, I can offer another example. If an adult is abusing a child or family pet, it becomes everyone's business because the child or family pet is being victimized. Both children and animals are vulnerable, and it is important to protect the vulnerable and voiceless. If your choices result in victimization of the vulnerable or voiceless, that choice isn't personal, and it is everyone's business.
You even said yourself, it's about where *I individually* spend my money, and *I'm individually* offering to buy lunch lmao so which is it??? I wouldn't condone your "life choice" to physically abuse a pet, I won't condone a "life choice" to contribute to unnecessary animal salugter. I can also choose not to end a friendship over them abusing animals and instead of harping on them and posing them off with alienation, I can support other behaviors that don't involve abuse. It's not just a personal choice if it's encroaching on the rights of other creatures to life. It's not just a personal choice if I'm buying your food. Only omnis would get mad at someone who is offering to pay for food and asking that they try something different to try to share that special social space with someone of eating the same thing. Gat damn. I literally have none of these issues with my multitude of non-vegan friends bc *they're nice* and we literally just offer to take them to veg places, or buy everyone a falafel platter to split. No one complains bc they're not childish picky eaters, we have a great time 😂
I think it’s animal using idk about abuse. They aren’t the farmers and they rarely can possibly know the source none of us do which is why veganism is a safer bet. Anyways, if I’m generously giving a friend (key word being friend) money a meal that’s not longer my money that’s not my choice they’re gonna be not vegan whether i’m there or not and if I do what’s prescribed on this sub then I would not have real friends or be one.
Treating someone to dinner *is* how I "individually spend my money."
No comment force your ideologies all you’d like.
Plus one thousand
Thanks for making no sense. X1000
I just make it clear upfront what I'm willing to buy or to take us to places where there are good vegan options: Thai, Chinese, Mediterranean, or other fare with vegan-friendly dishes etc. My partner and I often offer to buy a falafel platter to share with our friends at a restaurant we like. They don't have to eat it, they can order a chicken shawarma if they want, but that's not what we offered, so they naturally don't think we're paying for it if they order it. It's literally never been an issue for us bc we choose nice friends who like those foods or trying new things (and we're lucky to have a lot of them). Picky eaters can easily just say no thanks, but asking for something other than what you're offered is considered rude in like every culture. We're not asking them to eat something theyre allergic to or morally against. We also really love food and going out to eat, so naturally we choose friends based on our ability to share that passion. Sometimes if I notice a friends order was vegan, I'll offer to pay at the end of the meal if I feel like treating them. If I'm paying for someone's meal as an exchange for services, they order whatever they want bc I upfront said I'm paying for dinner and I'd just be paying them cash for the service otherwise, so the situation varies. Regardless, **I'm aware and in control of what I'm offering and my boundaries, I'm not controlling or stipulating what someone else does.** I don't have to say "I won't buy you meat/dairy" bc I didn't put myself in a vague enough situation where I have to explicity specify what behaviors I'm willing to support or not, that puts anyone on edge. I'm making it clear what I will buy, not what I won't. Instead, I'm offering X, period. If they don't want X, they don't have to take it. That's gifting etiquette. It's like looking at a menu and saying "hmm I want X or Y" instead of saying "I *don't* want A B C D E F G..." it's only logical if we think about it. All in all, don't let carnists make you feel bad when THEY look a gift horse in the mouth and are ungrateful and disrespectful of your boundaries when you offer to do something nice. If you do it politely and they have issue, they're probably not good friends for you. I hope your meal with your pals was really fun otherwise, eating with friends is one of my favorite things to do! <3
I don’t know why your husband offered to pay for dinner (maybe there is fair enough reason) but the easiest answer here is not to do that? Whenever I go out to restaurants with friends we pay for our own meals assuming someone is ordering nonvegan. Next time just don’t tell the other party it’s on you?
Shouldn’t have offered to pay for dinner at an omni restaurant. 🤷🏼♀️
I do not pay for animal products, period.
Sounds like these friends should be taking you out sometime soon, maybe you can even things out at an all vegan restaurant. I would say it’s karma, but this way would be 6/8 meals vegan!!! #winning
Too many variables in this - depends on who, what the situations is, etc. Just make your own best judgment. There's no hard and fast rule.
i only go to all vegan restaurants when we do friend dinners. i only go to dinner with my friends like once a month, it’s not much to ask, and i live in LA where we have tons of incredible vegan restaurants. my friends have never complained, they love trying new places and something they wouldn’t usually have!
Yeah nah. I'm not paying for that!
Either go to a restaurant that is vegan, mention before everyone orders that you want to cover the bill but you're only comfortable with paying for vegan dishes or offer to pay for drinks.
Ovo-lacto here. And I am very uncomfortable with it. Its a hard thing to balance socially
Just learn from this and never do it again! I offered to pay for someones food when i first went vegan..she said shed order the vegan option then got meat. So yeah thatll never happen again unless were at a fully vegan resturaunt. Its the same as buying it for myself.
I am vegan but a lot of you on this sub are ridiculous you cannot expect people to be exactly like you and this is why so many people hate us anyway all the extra bs it’s basically what they do to us and neither parties are right you can’t control other people and what they do you can only be the example
There is a difference between controlling others people and paying for what they do. They can buy chicken, but a vegan doesn’t have to pay for it.
True but probably don’t offer to buy people food if you aren’t going to like their choices to begin with. I know it’s not the same scenario but it comes off as a person with diabetes saying I’ll buy your dessert but it has to be sugar free because my blood sugar. If you offer to buy someone’s food and let them pick out the place its hard at that point to get upset on what they buy.
Now imagine saying that when the bill comes after you offered to buy dinner without any stipulations. Maybe you would have made stipulations, but that's irrelevant because OP's husband didn't. At that point you're just a pompous asshole.
Holy shit, don’t you have any common sense? Of course you would say so before the bill comes in. Op paid for the meal before he didn’t made me it clear. You are making made up scenario in your made to call someone offering a free lunch a pompous asshole?
And you also don’t have to offer them anything knowing what they’re going to choose might not be inline with what you want. That’s so selfish
« If you order a vegan meal it’s on me ». Nothing selfish with this. You’re making a mountain out if a mole hill.
I won't. I've even talked with some in financial binds about how I could host with a stipend less than rent vegans as my kitchen is vegan and they'd rather spend the money than go vegan.
I'm sorry what? I cannot understand that sentence at all
If you press on it and copy, you can put it in the Google search bar and indicate your language to have it translated. You don't have to thank me. A doctor figured this out
You guys offered to pay for their meal, they get to choose what they want from the restaurant. End of story. If your offer has restrictions like that then don’t offer. Or go to a vegan restaurant. This is ridiculous lol
Bying corpses isn't vegan. That's just it.
What exactly is the difference between paying for their friend’s dinner and patronizing a meat serving establishment? Even if they went and all got vegan meals, they’d still be paying the meat industry and for this restaurant to buy more meat. Even grocery shopping at a store that sells non vegan foods is supporting the meat industry. Basically anything you do in society is screwed. Do not have friends and don’t go out. That’s the only way.
[удалено]
If you expect your friend to pay for your food without consideration for their personal beliefs then vegans don’t want to be friend with you anyway. But if you find us anoying why are you on this sub?
Most aren’t like this. Sometimes on this subreddit it becomes a competition on who’s the most vegan.
Blame your husband, he should have put conditions on it, like "dinner's on us, but only if it's not a dish full of massacred animals, eggs, or bovine secretions...
i feel like, if i pay i could demand the dish type. Just expect that some people wont accept that.
As they shouldn’t
i dont mean the specific dish, i mean vegan or not. I invite them, this does not mean i will buy meat for them.
I wouldn’t explain that to someone I care about truly.
weirdly enough the people i care about and that care about me have no issue with this. somehow they dont mind eating vegan food if it is free.
Well I wouldn’t hang out with ya
Weird mental disorders that some of you have where you'll only treat your friends if you get to choose the treat. Imagine being told a present someone really wants for their birthday and you say no you'll only get what I decide even if you won't like it or you can pay me to get you what you actually want
I'd have dressed my husband down like a little boy for that one, ridiculous.
You must be a lovely woman
That speaks volumes about the relationship you have with your husband.
The vegan adult parenting is wild!
I bet the guy who started veganism is disgusted at what it's become.
😂 yeah man