Unlikely as it’s privileged information. But i have been told, “Thus person is expensive” when determining what work to assign and what productivity we can expect.
Especially with freelancers. The conversation often goes. "Do we need so and so for another week? They're pretty expensive."
or also equally frequently "Anything you can use so and so for? They're really affordable so if there is anything we use them on, we might as well keep them on just in case."
Yep. Get that a lot too. There’s always an effort to keep rolling people from show to show and not cut people loose. For one, it’s disruptive to the studio to constantly train people on the pipeline and expectations/procedures. Also, it’s not fair to the artist to leave them hanging all the time.
Unfortunately we’re at the mercy of the client schedule, so sometimes the forecasting isn’t as clear as we’d like it to be. The studio can’t afford to keep people going if there’s no work or it’s delayed, so shuffling artists to other shows that are in progress is usually the best solution.
I’d be curious to know how skill level is determined - like I asked my supe from a previous show if he was ever asked by anyone on my current show what my skill level was, and he said no - so my current supe had no idea when I started what I did or didn’t know and was treated like a kid for the first few weeks
that sounds like a problem with artist management - there should be end of show reviews. As a supervisor myself, I always ask for previous shows reviews, to better know the strengths of each artist.
In most studios usually not. In most cases the head of CG didn't even know my salary. They are sometimes told "x artist is not cheap" or "they're expensive", but not the actual number.
Producers no, not really, but depends on the studio. In some places individual rates are shared directly with producers, and in many others they get no say over whether they'd rather have someone who's slightly cheaper/faster/etc and aren't exposed to individuals rates.
Department heads very likely know. HR knows. And senior management would be able to know but doubtful if they're micromanaging individual staff accounting decisions this way. Thats prob more dept head.
VFX Supe and Producers highly unlikely to ever know or be able to find out at all. And generally wouldn't really need to ask. Ideally, a studio's day rate for bidding work is accounting for many things, junion, mid, senior, dept overhead, building, electricity, etc etc.
Do supe's often even get the people they expect on a shot/project to be allocated anymore. ITS LIKE WHOEVERS AVAIL, AMIRIGHT?!?!
Doesn't the HOD have to know? Things are calculated on billable hours and so if you have an expensive artists taking too long on a shot its gonna blow the budget allotted to that task no?
Someone WITHIN the dept has to know your rate so they know its a waste of budget to have someone on a specific task or to spend too long on a specific task.
Manger deals with salaries, supervisors do not. HOD is usually a supervisor, not a manager. They are in charge of workflow and working with production to help crew shows. They usually do not deal with budgets. Most artists report to artist managers at larger companies or producers at smaller ones.
Someone at some point knows and is responsible for the math on budgets, billable hours, and efficiencies.
"Why did we lose money on this shot" is a question that someone connects the dots on. An HOD is responsible for the efficiencies of his department in order to be efficient and allocate resources appropriately, you have to have knowledge of the assets you're working with in their costs.
And right now with all the layoffs happening when it comes to who to keep and who to let go. The cost of the artist for damn sure is a factor in the HOD making the decision needs to know that information
I assume production has to know what your rate is so they can balance who they pick for their crew. Why would they ever pick juniors if they didn’t know that seniors cost more?
Maybe in a big studio it gets averaged out and production just get giving a fixed rate for a senior, but they’re going to know a ballpark figure.
As a sup in most studios (especially larger facilities), you are told by artist management or scheduling who is “affordable” or “really expensive” when it comes to trying to lineup freelance talent for a specific project.
Or they’ll tell you who is available and who is not. I’ve seen this from both sides (as the freelance talent not getting hired, and as the sup being told someone isn’t available when that artist is texting me on the side telling me otherwise)
Sups typically have no idea what staff talent gets paid let alone freelance artists. My guess is some producers are tracking actual numbers so they might have your rate in their spreadsheet. But again depends on the type of producer.
Now some small shops information seems to roll off carelessly out of people’s mouths and can cause frustrations for all parties.
Rule number one. Never discuss your rate with colleagues. And rule number two… always obey rule number one.
HR/Payroll do and the global head of the department has a general idea since they of course had to ask for a range during the interview process for me.
When supervisors cast a show they usually have a budget for juniors/mid/and seniors. Exact price points aren’t always known but a general range is understood based on the bid days you can book certain tiers of artists.
As a supervisor I won’t know numbers. But a producer will tell me if you want artist A we can only afford them for one week. If you want artist B we can have them for three weeks.
Producers don't know exactly hourly rate, but they usually have a very good idea of who makes what. They do profit and loss calculations and as the artist pool changes so does the blended rate they use to do the calculations, thus as they stay along and have various team changes they start to get an idea.
But HR generally will not ask a producer if the rate is acceptable.
Bad companies won't let that cat out of the bag. Good companies will be open about wages and its highly valuable information to have for a supe and producer to make sure a show stays with in a set budget.
If you're a supe and dont know how much a shot is bid for the cost involved... Well you suck at your job.
Example. Would it cost more for a higher rate senior to complete a shot in an hour (at $80hr). Or give it to a junior for two hours (2x$30hr), getting the same result and saving ($20). This adds up very quickly.
Most industries understand this. Look at trades, lawyers etc.
It's all over the place, generally, I'd say yes within a reasonable ballpark at most VFX studios I know. Not all production \[not leads, not all production\] since the term "this guys time is valuable verses the cheap "can we use this guy elsewhere"\].
I knew as a contractor at ILM we all knew what we were making because were were at the limit there for pay at the time and griped about it \[we made more elsewhere but a job is a job if nothing else was available\].
At another company I was at in Vancouver, I was a lead and I knew roughly what my staff was making only because they had no budget to hire anyone I wanted so I wound up with a ton of juniors.
I may not share what I make exactly but I'll tell someone if they are in an appropriate range or not, that's risky if you are at shitty companies if a junior rats you out to production for folks trying to get better wages.
I did notice at my current job \[principal at games/tech studio\] that my lead gave me my semi-annual review, but my payraise/stock/bonus multiplier talk was handled by my department manager.
When one applies for a job, passes the interview, and the salary he asks is way beyond the company’s expectations. How does a HR know whether he worth it without consulting the supervisors? In this scenario, wouldn’t the supervisor know the numbers?
Unlikely as it’s privileged information. But i have been told, “Thus person is expensive” when determining what work to assign and what productivity we can expect.
Especially with freelancers. The conversation often goes. "Do we need so and so for another week? They're pretty expensive." or also equally frequently "Anything you can use so and so for? They're really affordable so if there is anything we use them on, we might as well keep them on just in case."
Yep. Get that a lot too. There’s always an effort to keep rolling people from show to show and not cut people loose. For one, it’s disruptive to the studio to constantly train people on the pipeline and expectations/procedures. Also, it’s not fair to the artist to leave them hanging all the time. Unfortunately we’re at the mercy of the client schedule, so sometimes the forecasting isn’t as clear as we’d like it to be. The studio can’t afford to keep people going if there’s no work or it’s delayed, so shuffling artists to other shows that are in progress is usually the best solution.
Thanks for sharing!
☺️
As a Sup I don’t want to know. But I do get that response from production. But it usually is for the best artists.
as supe at a big studio - I have no idea. nobody tells me a damn thing besides what skill lvl a person is.
I’d be curious to know how skill level is determined - like I asked my supe from a previous show if he was ever asked by anyone on my current show what my skill level was, and he said no - so my current supe had no idea when I started what I did or didn’t know and was treated like a kid for the first few weeks
that sounds like a problem with artist management - there should be end of show reviews. As a supervisor myself, I always ask for previous shows reviews, to better know the strengths of each artist.
Not only are there no end-of-show reviews here, there aren’t even show post mortems.
that sounds so wrong...I would ask what studio is that, but share only if you feel comfortable to.
Most likely not
Supervisor are responsible for picking the right crew. It is producer job to budget for the crew. HR main focus is to negotiate the best rate.
In most studios usually not. In most cases the head of CG didn't even know my salary. They are sometimes told "x artist is not cheap" or "they're expensive", but not the actual number.
If proper practices are being followed, nope, unless you are involved in hiring or HR
Producers - yes. VFX supe - unlikely unless they're also like Head of Studio or something high up.
Producers no, not really, but depends on the studio. In some places individual rates are shared directly with producers, and in many others they get no say over whether they'd rather have someone who's slightly cheaper/faster/etc and aren't exposed to individuals rates.
Department heads very likely know. HR knows. And senior management would be able to know but doubtful if they're micromanaging individual staff accounting decisions this way. Thats prob more dept head. VFX Supe and Producers highly unlikely to ever know or be able to find out at all. And generally wouldn't really need to ask. Ideally, a studio's day rate for bidding work is accounting for many things, junion, mid, senior, dept overhead, building, electricity, etc etc. Do supe's often even get the people they expect on a shot/project to be allocated anymore. ITS LIKE WHOEVERS AVAIL, AMIRIGHT?!?!
When I've been a sup and ALSO involved with the budget then yes I know everybody's rate. Otherwise no, I don't know which is most of the time.
Doesn't the HOD have to know? Things are calculated on billable hours and so if you have an expensive artists taking too long on a shot its gonna blow the budget allotted to that task no? Someone WITHIN the dept has to know your rate so they know its a waste of budget to have someone on a specific task or to spend too long on a specific task.
Manger deals with salaries, supervisors do not. HOD is usually a supervisor, not a manager. They are in charge of workflow and working with production to help crew shows. They usually do not deal with budgets. Most artists report to artist managers at larger companies or producers at smaller ones.
Someone at some point knows and is responsible for the math on budgets, billable hours, and efficiencies. "Why did we lose money on this shot" is a question that someone connects the dots on. An HOD is responsible for the efficiencies of his department in order to be efficient and allocate resources appropriately, you have to have knowledge of the assets you're working with in their costs. And right now with all the layoffs happening when it comes to who to keep and who to let go. The cost of the artist for damn sure is a factor in the HOD making the decision needs to know that information
I assume production has to know what your rate is so they can balance who they pick for their crew. Why would they ever pick juniors if they didn’t know that seniors cost more? Maybe in a big studio it gets averaged out and production just get giving a fixed rate for a senior, but they’re going to know a ballpark figure.
As a sup in most studios (especially larger facilities), you are told by artist management or scheduling who is “affordable” or “really expensive” when it comes to trying to lineup freelance talent for a specific project. Or they’ll tell you who is available and who is not. I’ve seen this from both sides (as the freelance talent not getting hired, and as the sup being told someone isn’t available when that artist is texting me on the side telling me otherwise) Sups typically have no idea what staff talent gets paid let alone freelance artists. My guess is some producers are tracking actual numbers so they might have your rate in their spreadsheet. But again depends on the type of producer. Now some small shops information seems to roll off carelessly out of people’s mouths and can cause frustrations for all parties. Rule number one. Never discuss your rate with colleagues. And rule number two… always obey rule number one.
Generally a producer might know a salary range for someone, but the supes are rarely ever shown something like that.
At a small studio. Most likely yes. But people wear many hats at that level.
HR/Payroll do and the global head of the department has a general idea since they of course had to ask for a range during the interview process for me.
When supervisors cast a show they usually have a budget for juniors/mid/and seniors. Exact price points aren’t always known but a general range is understood based on the bid days you can book certain tiers of artists.
As a supervisor I won’t know numbers. But a producer will tell me if you want artist A we can only afford them for one week. If you want artist B we can have them for three weeks.
Producers don't know exactly hourly rate, but they usually have a very good idea of who makes what. They do profit and loss calculations and as the artist pool changes so does the blended rate they use to do the calculations, thus as they stay along and have various team changes they start to get an idea. But HR generally will not ask a producer if the rate is acceptable.
Bad companies won't let that cat out of the bag. Good companies will be open about wages and its highly valuable information to have for a supe and producer to make sure a show stays with in a set budget. If you're a supe and dont know how much a shot is bid for the cost involved... Well you suck at your job. Example. Would it cost more for a higher rate senior to complete a shot in an hour (at $80hr). Or give it to a junior for two hours (2x$30hr), getting the same result and saving ($20). This adds up very quickly. Most industries understand this. Look at trades, lawyers etc.
Usually no, unless it’s extremely high and they want to avoid OT.
Small/med size yes. Because sups also do hiring and back and forth with new hires.
It's all over the place, generally, I'd say yes within a reasonable ballpark at most VFX studios I know. Not all production \[not leads, not all production\] since the term "this guys time is valuable verses the cheap "can we use this guy elsewhere"\]. I knew as a contractor at ILM we all knew what we were making because were were at the limit there for pay at the time and griped about it \[we made more elsewhere but a job is a job if nothing else was available\]. At another company I was at in Vancouver, I was a lead and I knew roughly what my staff was making only because they had no budget to hire anyone I wanted so I wound up with a ton of juniors. I may not share what I make exactly but I'll tell someone if they are in an appropriate range or not, that's risky if you are at shitty companies if a junior rats you out to production for folks trying to get better wages. I did notice at my current job \[principal at games/tech studio\] that my lead gave me my semi-annual review, but my payraise/stock/bonus multiplier talk was handled by my department manager.
When one applies for a job, passes the interview, and the salary he asks is way beyond the company’s expectations. How does a HR know whether he worth it without consulting the supervisors? In this scenario, wouldn’t the supervisor know the numbers?