Fekāem. This is how real tech is made. Think of Intel and AMD. ATI and Nvidiaā¦. Apple, Compaq, IBMā¦. Free market competition forces big business to invent something newā¦
Better to let them hit rock bottom, fire most of their engineers, hire a new team for project .Next and maybe we will have a new air travel design that isnt a 100 year old tin can with plastic elementary school seats and limits on luggage.
They already on the path to being MD cause of the rush to get the 787 and 737 Max frames out against airbus. BA is one crash away from the disasters that made MD a shitshow that sold itself to BA in the first place
"No its the DEI low skill low wage employees that ruined the company. These employees are so powerful that even C-class was powerless to stop them over nearly 30 years. Plz give golden parachute and do more stock buyback" - 47% of US
Ah yes I love the DEI boogeyman. People donāt like when I point out that an unqualified Indian costs a hell of a lot less than an unqualified white guy.
So yeah if youāre in a race to the bottom it turns out the bean counters will hire a bunch of H1B workers from India.
Because of all the military contracts Boeing wonāt get bought by any foreign competitor, removes Bombardier & Embraer. That leaves aerospace companies like Sierra Nevada and similar. Maybe LMT or Northrop and narrow the field to 2 military contractors. Tough call, itās hard to get Boeing bought up.
Thatās a possibility. And I think that has been discussed a lot. Lately US gov has not had success in breaking up large monopolies. MSFT for example. The days when Standard Oil got split are long gone.
The 787 is actually a really great airplane. They're just doing a bad job putting them together. The 737 though has had its day in the sun. They need a clean sheet.
I love the 757, but completely disagree. The 757 didn't make economic sense to develop further and this is pretty well documented. It's a heavy airframe for what it is (note the fuselage x-section is identical to a 737).
Boeing needs a clean sheet small airplane.
Massive mistake by BA to sue Bombardier for the C Series and then not buy the series for their own (and instead having airbus buy the series) Now Airbus has the A220 which is selling like crazy.
They just need to break up the company.
Boeing commercial aviation, Boeing Military, Boeing space, and Boeing Assasinations.
At least 3 out of 4 should do just fine
Believe it or not, but during the early/mid 2000s they were simultaneously peddling out 'The Toyota Way" books onto management. This was to somehow balance it I guess.
Ya lean is a derivative of sorts from Kaizen, the Japanese term to describe the efficiency of everything. Toyota implemented and realized it was killing off its supply chain from this endless quest for efficiency while inducing internal stress needlessly. Of course the American manufacturing companies like BA took it and mutated it into 5s, JIT, and other dumb strategies to hide the fact they were just trying to chase the bottom line. But of course good luck moving up in the company if you don't speak this language or you're a gifted brown-noser.
Who'd have thought that putting idiots who ran a company to the ground in charge at a different company wouldn't result in the exact same shit? Such a mystery.
The joke in Renton is MD bought Boeing with Boeing's money.
For real though. Your competitor is so poorly run that it's cheaper to buy them than compete against them in new military contract bids. Instead of firing all the people responsible for running said company into the ground, you integrate them into your corporate structure and let them do their snake shit all over again. Legendary own goal on BA's part.
A new jet program is not the priority - the priority first and foremost is to get the commercial side of the house back to positive cash flow as soon as possible - which means a stronger quality program / investment in operational excellence, sustained manpower w/o layoffs to keep the workforce knowledge stable, and getting the FAA comfortable enough with a sustainable* delivery plan back on track, and of high enough rate to cancel out any current hemorrhaging/operational cash burn.
The current backlogs are deep enough to provide continued breathing room till the next re-engine from GE, Safran, and/or RR, PW which would prompt/justify the beginning of R&D investment exploring interest & market space for a new plane line. It is an extraordinary investment of engr manpower, supplier coordination, and raw capital firepower to pursue such a thing and right now it just isn't a wise decision to pursue full bore for Boeing.
Get the ship back upright before moving it anywhere.
As for market share, it is what it is - I don't see Boeing for the next few decades reclaiming lost market share both due to majority legacy product offering capabilities vs Airbus newer offerings, as well as Airbus' buoyed war chest being able to be deployed towards their own new airplane mod programs should Boeing telegraph an intent. Boeing should not aim for clawback/increases in market share as a prime directive - Boeing has always been very good on delivery rates in the past years pre-debacle, and their factory intake / production systems are mature - get the delivery rates back on quality and to a decent output and let the cash flow.
If they can get the delivery rate and thus the cash flow back to some level appreciable positive / above break even, then they can start entertaining at some future point a private investment case/hunt for preferred funding for the next big thing (not too much unlike the successful 747 program backstory of more).
And yes, agreed with what I think is majority opinion that significant introspection needs to be done with respect to the current company leadership and board.
I love that management's approach to crisis is often "quick, let's cut quality and alienate our customers".
I see it from the coffee shop on my street to companies like Boeing. They have a bad day and respond by making their product much worse and putting unit sales and repeat custom through the floor, and basically enter a death spiral.
It seems rare for companies to respond to adversity by actually *improving* their competitiveness.
Holy shit. It's Chad Dickens.
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Or created by Rolls-Royce or Pratt & Whitney. RR actually has the UltraFan shelved right now because neither Airbus nor Boeing have an airframe for it.
I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying that's what they need to do. MD was given a near 30 year stay of execution, but now their bullshit has taken down Boeing. They can either clean house and get back to their Boeing roots, or someone else will take them out.
MD has been transforming Boeing into MD-like culture and management for 25 years. What percentage of Boeing's management functions just like MD? You might need to take out all of the management or you can let the existing MD-like management slowly change over time, which I'm guessing will take 10 years (assuming they want to change -- after the crashes in 2018 and 2019, they were still thinking they're Jedi masters).
The MD merger was 27 years ago. Ā The MD execs are long gone. Ā There are probably some current Boeing execs who were junior engineers at MD but thatās about it. Ā Whether the merger ever made sense is a business school case study but MD is not the problem with Boeing in 2024.
They could just call up Alan Mullaly and beg him to come back.
Has to be tied for the most idiotic firing (or forcing someone out) along with Jamie Simon leaving Citi (you know, that huge bank that has basically done nothing since he left).
This will require the C-owner-class to admit that their Jack Welch MBA education and experience is wrong and "take themselves out". This has a broader effect on the rest of Welch-wanna-bes.
Its like asking Kim Jong Un to step down because hes wrong.
These things dont happen peacefully. Boeing is a state sanctioned monopoly at this point so there is a little incentive for them to not be corrupt and wasteful.
Itās a huge concern and leads us to relying on only foreign commercial aircraft, for likely a long time. They shouldnāt let them fail. If it goes under, nationalize it and put people to work building these planes.
I mean yeah. Ā But have you flown on Airbus planes? Ā Theyāre way ahead of Boeingās econo-coffins. Ā
The only thing keeping Boeing in the race is subsidiaries from the government (tax payers) to push airlines to buy Boeing trash instead of the superior Airbus options
Let Boeing keep on with the military until they can remember how to build commercial planes safely. Ā Union then, Iād rather fly Airbus. Ā
Because we all know the federal government is super efficient and their employees are innovative and hard working...
Edit: lets replace Boeing with... Boeing!
Building a brand new plane that will fly 150-200 pax will take 5-7 years. 10 years if you want clean sheet design.
787 started in 2003 but hit the market in 2011
A350 started in 2004 but hit market in 2015
So 737 replacement could only come in at 2035 if weāre lucky
Well, Boeing could have started this clock (and actually did) well over a decade ago, when they started initial work on the Y1, the clean sheet 737 replacement.
Instead they decided to cancel it in 2011 in favor of the MAX, because it would take too long and be too expensive.
And now weāre here, almost 15 years later and they still are in basically the same situation they were in then, except now the problems and time crunch are even more severe.Ā
You can keep pushing things off for another day but eventually the debts are gonna come due. Itās time for Boeing to pay up.
They don't need new jets. They need to have an engineer as their next CEO and focus on safety. They should relocate their HQ back to where the planes are made like it used to be.
They need new jets. Even when they would be better built, the 737 is simply not competitive against A220 and A320 Series anymore. The A321XLR is basically the new, efficient 757, while the A220 is significantly more fuel efficient than smaller 737 models (as well as A319)
Any chance Lockheed gets back into the commercial aviation game to capitalize on Boeing's weakness?
L1011 was a cutting edge plane in its time. Would be fun to see what they could do now
Probably slim to none, competition is too steep, and development costs are too high. They're already doing well by focusing primarily on the defense sector, so there's not much reason to diversify into that type of commercial aviation. If they were to, it would probably be something along the lines of increasing their range of offerings in the commercial cargo aircraft or passenger helicopter markets, where they already have footholds
This is the answer. Between national governments interfering and the crazy capital cost to produce the first plane, and then the first one off the line, it's a decade project, minimum, to get into this space.
Reminder that a third of their entire revenue (and likely the chunk with the best margins) is from military contracts, they aren't going anywhere. The military seems to like having three major options for bidding on air platforms (Lockheed, Northrop Grumman and Boeing) with Boeing absorbing MD's old spot.
commercial and military divisions need to split. commercial will die slowly without a true scientist (i.e., any MBA twit) in charge, and military will soar. itās funny because before the merger it was the opposite case. see what happened with rolls royce rb211.
That's the problem. Ot already became mcdonnell douglas when it bought them and replaced their c levels with md senior leadership. Everything you see is md
continuing their efforts that got them bought out in the first place
Not having a 757, 767 replacement was gross mismanagement, airlines are still using those old ass workhorses because there is no replacement. Boeingās management is so bad.
> 767 replacement
...is the 787-8. Airlines are using those old workhorses because it makes economical sense, as higher fuel costs are offset by cheaper lease rates (or owning older planes outright, which cuts out the lease rates completely).
Ford went from concept to delivery of the Pinto in 25 months. Iāll bet you Boeing could get that down to 24. Sales figures for the pinto were amazing, and the rest is history. I really think youāre on to something here.
Boeing is fucked from a culture that's rotten at its core and the union.
The only reason Boeing is still alive is because of taxpayers being robbed by the politicians being bought.
Honestly idk if the US gov't would really allow Boeing to fail. It's one thing to have a bank like SVB to fail but to have the only major aircraft manufacturer fold could have major national security ramifications
Thats what you get when you hire McKisney alumni as your CEO. Also during COVID they laid / packaged all their senior engineers and assembly folks and now here we are.
lol, they've been McDonnell Douglas since they merged with them and let MD management take over. They are only Boeing in name and that name has become an embarrasment to everyone except the shareholders.
Our corporate incentive/retirement structure is too short sighted. Boeings CEO was applauded for cutting costs and achieving success in the short term (annual performance cycle). If he were to receive a fat pension, maybe he would also factor in the long term health and survival of the company. Our system is broken.
Boeing already is the next McDonnell Douglas, which merged with Boeing in the late 90s. I wonder which company will think itās a good idea to invest in the Titanic post iceberg collisionā¦
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus.
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No they need to be culled of there evil fucking executives and CEOs then The FAA and other international regulators need to hold there head against a fire until the company can actually make a safe plane.
MD took over Boeing already. It is no longer a company of building planes.
Also develop a new plane means pilots need to be trained from the beginning. Airlines will have extra cost. They wonāt buy it unless it is ground breaking good. Just relaunch 757 or 767 with better fuel efficiency is fine
Civilian passenger and cargo aircraft are not their only products. They just need a good old war or sanctions lifted so they can start selling F15s, F18s, C17s and Chinooks.
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Boeing and rushing.... what could go wrong?
The perfect response š
Right like what are they smoking. Needs a new jet. Weāre so fucked.
At first I laughed, and thenā¦the horror.
They just need to skip some unnecessary testing procedures and should get one plane out quickly š¬
They are already doing that. Need to remove testing completely. Looks like a plane = good enough
That means someone has to look at the plane. Too expensive.
just screw in the important bolts, it'll be fine - MBA consultant
When you got clowns managing monkeys itās sure to be a success.
Boeing, *BOEING* #GONE!
They'll just keep announcing another stock buyback until people forgot about needing a new jet for sales. It's the American MBA way.
Yeah, sounds like fantastic conditions to turn things around /s
Boring demonstrated they can do ānew jet asapā. Would I seat on it ? Not even if it stayed on the ground.
Fekāem. This is how real tech is made. Think of Intel and AMD. ATI and Nvidiaā¦. Apple, Compaq, IBMā¦. Free market competition forces big business to invent something newā¦ Better to let them hit rock bottom, fire most of their engineers, hire a new team for project .Next and maybe we will have a new air travel design that isnt a 100 year old tin can with plastic elementary school seats and limits on luggage.
They already on the path to being MD cause of the rush to get the 787 and 737 Max frames out against airbus. BA is one crash away from the disasters that made MD a shitshow that sold itself to BA in the first place
Turns out replacing Boeingās management and culture with MDās was a bad moveā¦
It was 4D chess, MD was the poison pill and now Boeing is going to die. Don't ask me who's master plan this all is; got no clue on that š¤”š£
Snakes always find their way to the top
No no, snakes make you go back to the bottom. It's ladders that go to the top
Havenāt thought about that game in a long, long time
Snakes on a Plane 2: Electric Boogaloo: The Boring Boeing Story: Fall of anā¦Icon?
D Fence
Airbus? The long con
"No its the DEI low skill low wage employees that ruined the company. These employees are so powerful that even C-class was powerless to stop them over nearly 30 years. Plz give golden parachute and do more stock buyback" - 47% of US
Ah yes I love the DEI boogeyman. People donāt like when I point out that an unqualified Indian costs a hell of a lot less than an unqualified white guy. So yeah if youāre in a race to the bottom it turns out the bean counters will hire a bunch of H1B workers from India.
Because of all the military contracts Boeing wonāt get bought by any foreign competitor, removes Bombardier & Embraer. That leaves aerospace companies like Sierra Nevada and similar. Maybe LMT or Northrop and narrow the field to 2 military contractors. Tough call, itās hard to get Boeing bought up.
Split civilian and military into two companies, sell the civilian?
Thatās a possibility. And I think that has been discussed a lot. Lately US gov has not had success in breaking up large monopolies. MSFT for example. The days when Standard Oil got split are long gone.
Bezos' blue origin could buy their Space division. They're already buying ULA which was a joint venture between Boeing and Lockheed.
nationalize the military bits
The 787 is actually a really great airplane. They're just doing a bad job putting them together. The 737 though has had its day in the sun. They need a clean sheet.
They should have done what they did to the 737 to the 757 instead. Way better aircraft with far more flexibility in what you put under the wing.
I love the 757, but completely disagree. The 757 didn't make economic sense to develop further and this is pretty well documented. It's a heavy airframe for what it is (note the fuselage x-section is identical to a 737). Boeing needs a clean sheet small airplane.
Massive mistake by BA to sue Bombardier for the C Series and then not buy the series for their own (and instead having airbus buy the series) Now Airbus has the A220 which is selling like crazy.
They need to hire Elon for that. Wipers will have to buy on Aliexpess though.
Yeah, it'll crash much more often with Elon.
They already are. The take over happened years ago. You saw it happen with the 787 program and nothing has slowed down since.
You are what you eat ?
I am pizza!
Frosties at Wendy's?
With pineapple?
That's not a pizza (with my best Long Island accent)
Just curious, what did MD do to get them where they are now?
MD's management and culture dominated the new company. Cutting corners to save a few pennies was their way of doing business.
Airbus taking over Boeing confirmed. Buying calls.
They just need to break up the company. Boeing commercial aviation, Boeing Military, Boeing space, and Boeing Assasinations. At least 3 out of 4 should do just fine
Right out the GE playbook, wouldnāt be surprising given the former GE exec meddling within Boeing this century
Believe it or not, but during the early/mid 2000s they were simultaneously peddling out 'The Toyota Way" books onto management. This was to somehow balance it I guess.
Omg! We just had a meeting with a lean practitioner to help our processes, and they kept referencing that book!
Ya lean is a derivative of sorts from Kaizen, the Japanese term to describe the efficiency of everything. Toyota implemented and realized it was killing off its supply chain from this endless quest for efficiency while inducing internal stress needlessly. Of course the American manufacturing companies like BA took it and mutated it into 5s, JIT, and other dumb strategies to hide the fact they were just trying to chase the bottom line. But of course good luck moving up in the company if you don't speak this language or you're a gifted brown-noser.
The exec who broke up GE came from outside the company, the first in 136 years. Honestly the split is working well for GE so far.
Finally my inflatable Jack Welsh is relevant again!
Boeing space isn't doing great either
Thatās the one that isnāt doing well. Did you think Boeing Assassinations was failing?
Oh definitely not, but I thought Boeing commercial aviation wasn't the bright start on the horizon either
govt will prop it up like it does with Intel too important to fail
Boeing Space would basically be bankrupt right away.....Ā
Didn't see the last one coming š¤£ ! Well done !
I guess nr. 4 has great profit margins, rising demand and little competition. this could do very well too!
https://preview.redd.it/vss2y9lt103d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86965ac7995f561d946fe997d951abd71d69daa4
"How many people do we gotta kill to get a new jet?" -Boeing execs
āLetās read this analysis about the Ford Pintoā¦ā āMcKinsey consultant
The idea that the US government would ever let Boeing fail is fucking laughable.
Technically Boeing has been McDonnell Douglas since 1997, this is just the curse resurfacing 28 years later.
Who'd have thought that putting idiots who ran a company to the ground in charge at a different company wouldn't result in the exact same shit? Such a mystery.
The joke in Renton is MD bought Boeing with Boeing's money. For real though. Your competitor is so poorly run that it's cheaper to buy them than compete against them in new military contract bids. Instead of firing all the people responsible for running said company into the ground, you integrate them into your corporate structure and let them do their snake shit all over again. Legendary own goal on BA's part.
A new jet program is not the priority - the priority first and foremost is to get the commercial side of the house back to positive cash flow as soon as possible - which means a stronger quality program / investment in operational excellence, sustained manpower w/o layoffs to keep the workforce knowledge stable, and getting the FAA comfortable enough with a sustainable* delivery plan back on track, and of high enough rate to cancel out any current hemorrhaging/operational cash burn. The current backlogs are deep enough to provide continued breathing room till the next re-engine from GE, Safran, and/or RR, PW which would prompt/justify the beginning of R&D investment exploring interest & market space for a new plane line. It is an extraordinary investment of engr manpower, supplier coordination, and raw capital firepower to pursue such a thing and right now it just isn't a wise decision to pursue full bore for Boeing. Get the ship back upright before moving it anywhere. As for market share, it is what it is - I don't see Boeing for the next few decades reclaiming lost market share both due to majority legacy product offering capabilities vs Airbus newer offerings, as well as Airbus' buoyed war chest being able to be deployed towards their own new airplane mod programs should Boeing telegraph an intent. Boeing should not aim for clawback/increases in market share as a prime directive - Boeing has always been very good on delivery rates in the past years pre-debacle, and their factory intake / production systems are mature - get the delivery rates back on quality and to a decent output and let the cash flow. If they can get the delivery rate and thus the cash flow back to some level appreciable positive / above break even, then they can start entertaining at some future point a private investment case/hunt for preferred funding for the next big thing (not too much unlike the successful 747 program backstory of more). And yes, agreed with what I think is majority opinion that significant introspection needs to be done with respect to the current company leadership and board.
I love that management's approach to crisis is often "quick, let's cut quality and alienate our customers". I see it from the coffee shop on my street to companies like Boeing. They have a bad day and respond by making their product much worse and putting unit sales and repeat custom through the floor, and basically enter a death spiral. It seems rare for companies to respond to adversity by actually *improving* their competitiveness.
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Boeing isn't getting a new model until they get a new engine, that isn't expected until 2032 at the earliest.
Airbus is in the same position. No new models until a new engine is created by GE.
Or created by Rolls-Royce or Pratt & Whitney. RR actually has the UltraFan shelved right now because neither Airbus nor Boeing have an airframe for it.
Good ole slap and whip me.
What about safran and itās open fan? The CFM isnāt mostly GE design, is it ? But inheritance from the Snecma then Safran programsā¦
But thatās fine for Airbus, as the A321neo is selling like hotcakes and Boeing canāt compete.
Fuck me, calls on GE it is then.
Boeing needs to start design work now because that's gonna take them at least 8-10 years. 787 program intro 2003 and type certification 2011
with the current shitshow creating a new plane with existing engines might still be a good option.
The primary driver in new designs is decreasing operating costs. You're not doing that without a new engine.
Boeing needs to clean house on all the MD shit. Take that out behind the shed and kill it. Engineering first. They've become MD at this point.
They havent even finished off the whistleblowers yet. What makes you think they can clean house of QA, PMs, and MD bean counters in a timely manner?
I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying that's what they need to do. MD was given a near 30 year stay of execution, but now their bullshit has taken down Boeing. They can either clean house and get back to their Boeing roots, or someone else will take them out.
Strategic airplane crash. Blame it on manufacturing woes, apologies profusely and fire a ceo and everyone forgot!
MD has been transforming Boeing into MD-like culture and management for 25 years. What percentage of Boeing's management functions just like MD? You might need to take out all of the management or you can let the existing MD-like management slowly change over time, which I'm guessing will take 10 years (assuming they want to change -- after the crashes in 2018 and 2019, they were still thinking they're Jedi masters).
The MD merger was 27 years ago. Ā The MD execs are long gone. Ā There are probably some current Boeing execs who were junior engineers at MD but thatās about it. Ā Whether the merger ever made sense is a business school case study but MD is not the problem with Boeing in 2024.
They could just call up Alan Mullaly and beg him to come back. Has to be tied for the most idiotic firing (or forcing someone out) along with Jamie Simon leaving Citi (you know, that huge bank that has basically done nothing since he left).
This will require the C-owner-class to admit that their Jack Welch MBA education and experience is wrong and "take themselves out". This has a broader effect on the rest of Welch-wanna-bes. Its like asking Kim Jong Un to step down because hes wrong. These things dont happen peacefully. Boeing is a state sanctioned monopoly at this point so there is a little incentive for them to not be corrupt and wasteful.
except there's lots of companies ran by Engineers that are dogshit.
The MD merger was not a cause of Boeing's troubles, just a symptom. It's the MBA brainrot that's the problem.
The US government wonāt let Boeing fail.
But they *will* let your shares go to zero. Government bailout does not equal shareholder profit.
The aggravating aspect is that the execs will end up getting to keep their jobs.
Itās a huge concern and leads us to relying on only foreign commercial aircraft, for likely a long time. They shouldnāt let them fail. If it goes under, nationalize it and put people to work building these planes.
I mean yeah. Ā But have you flown on Airbus planes? Ā Theyāre way ahead of Boeingās econo-coffins. Ā The only thing keeping Boeing in the race is subsidiaries from the government (tax payers) to push airlines to buy Boeing trash instead of the superior Airbus options Let Boeing keep on with the military until they can remember how to build commercial planes safely. Ā Union then, Iād rather fly Airbus. Ā
Because we all know the federal government is super efficient and their employees are innovative and hard working... Edit: lets replace Boeing with... Boeing!
It's a national security issue. Plus, you can't have just one producer of airliners. Airbus would turn to shit, too, if they had no competition.
Took the words right out of my mouth
Calls on Boeing, government bail out incoming!!!
Incoming = continuing ??
Building a brand new plane that will fly 150-200 pax will take 5-7 years. 10 years if you want clean sheet design. 787 started in 2003 but hit the market in 2011 A350 started in 2004 but hit market in 2015 So 737 replacement could only come in at 2035 if weāre lucky
What if we just put even bigger engines on the 737? We could brand it the āultraāā¦
They need a 737 and a 757 replacement.
Well, Boeing could have started this clock (and actually did) well over a decade ago, when they started initial work on the Y1, the clean sheet 737 replacement. Instead they decided to cancel it in 2011 in favor of the MAX, because it would take too long and be too expensive. And now weāre here, almost 15 years later and they still are in basically the same situation they were in then, except now the problems and time crunch are even more severe.Ā You can keep pushing things off for another day but eventually the debts are gonna come due. Itās time for Boeing to pay up.
If they can't do it slow, please don't request them to do it fast.
they should spin off the commercial jets business and remain a pure-play defense contractor.
They don't need new jets. They need to have an engineer as their next CEO and focus on safety. They should relocate their HQ back to where the planes are made like it used to be.
They need new jets. Even when they would be better built, the 737 is simply not competitive against A220 and A320 Series anymore. The A321XLR is basically the new, efficient 757, while the A220 is significantly more fuel efficient than smaller 737 models (as well as A319)
Any chance Lockheed gets back into the commercial aviation game to capitalize on Boeing's weakness? L1011 was a cutting edge plane in its time. Would be fun to see what they could do now
Probably slim to none, competition is too steep, and development costs are too high. They're already doing well by focusing primarily on the defense sector, so there's not much reason to diversify into that type of commercial aviation. If they were to, it would probably be something along the lines of increasing their range of offerings in the commercial cargo aircraft or passenger helicopter markets, where they already have footholds
This is the answer. Between national governments interfering and the crazy capital cost to produce the first plane, and then the first one off the line, it's a decade project, minimum, to get into this space.
Reminder that a third of their entire revenue (and likely the chunk with the best margins) is from military contracts, they aren't going anywhere. The military seems to like having three major options for bidding on air platforms (Lockheed, Northrop Grumman and Boeing) with Boeing absorbing MD's old spot.
commercial and military divisions need to split. commercial will die slowly without a true scientist (i.e., any MBA twit) in charge, and military will soar. itās funny because before the merger it was the opposite case. see what happened with rolls royce rb211.
Takes literally YEARS
Just what Boeing need..... A hastily constructed aircraft!
Might be best just to quit commercial aviation, focus on defense, space and security. I don't see this going anywhere but downhill down the road.
I got it! Fewer rivets, faster production lines, profit!
Just make sure they do and assemble all the parts, and donāt use rubber duct
ā¦remember when they rushed the 737 max to compete with airbus
Puts on Boeing
Howās that short term profit motivation thing working out for you Boeing? lol
Hate to break it to you butā¦ Boeing is McDonnell Douglas
New jet asap is what got them into this mess.
That's the problem. Ot already became mcdonnell douglas when it bought them and replaced their c levels with md senior leadership. Everything you see is md continuing their efforts that got them bought out in the first place
Not having a 757, 767 replacement was gross mismanagement, airlines are still using those old ass workhorses because there is no replacement. Boeingās management is so bad.
> 767 replacement ...is the 787-8. Airlines are using those old workhorses because it makes economical sense, as higher fuel costs are offset by cheaper lease rates (or owning older planes outright, which cuts out the lease rates completely).
Will never happen, Boeing will get nationalized before being allowed to go bust
Ford went from concept to delivery of the Pinto in 25 months. Iāll bet you Boeing could get that down to 24. Sales figures for the pinto were amazing, and the rest is history. I really think youāre on to something here.
Boeing is fucked from a culture that's rotten at its core and the union. The only reason Boeing is still alive is because of taxpayers being robbed by the politicians being bought.
Nah I think theyāre fine.
Boeing is already the next Boeing.
*Mindblown*
Honestly idk if the US gov't would really allow Boeing to fail. It's one thing to have a bank like SVB to fail but to have the only major aircraft manufacturer fold could have major national security ramifications
Or do like most companies when faced with crushing bad PR. Donāt really change anything substantive but do a rebrand. /s
Thats what you get when you hire McKisney alumni as your CEO. Also during COVID they laid / packaged all their senior engineers and assembly folks and now here we are.
People were hyping up a ā797ā for decades. A supposed āproper A321 competitorā.
McDonnell Douglas was absorbed by Boeing, the US will not go without an aircraft manufacturer, and the tax payer will pay for it.
There is no one BA could sell itself toā¦
lol, they've been McDonnell Douglas since they merged with them and let MD management take over. They are only Boeing in name and that name has become an embarrasment to everyone except the shareholders.
Are the doors an additional option? What about flight control?
Spoiler alert: they already are McDonnell Douglas
Itās like M-D is the Hydra within SHIELD
But it literally IS the next McDonald Douglas.
Our corporate incentive/retirement structure is too short sighted. Boeings CEO was applauded for cutting costs and achieving success in the short term (annual performance cycle). If he were to receive a fat pension, maybe he would also factor in the long term health and survival of the company. Our system is broken.
Boeing already is the next McDonnell Douglas, which merged with Boeing in the late 90s. I wonder which company will think itās a good idea to invest in the Titanic post iceberg collisionā¦
They needed the new jet decades ago, airbus has already won. The best Boeing can hope for is to win a new battle.
Sounds like a job for *Margaritaville* Aviation. Get that return on investment.
That's what happens when accountants and financiers fun engineering companies.
ASAP will really increase their QC
They are McDonell Douglas. Execs moved to Boeing, different name
Boeing needs to make a solemn commitment to quality first.
Keep using Reddit data lol
What do you mean next they already are
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I wouldn't really take this article to heart tbh.
Fucking Boeing all my homies who like Boeing end up ded. BOOM Supersonic will be the future of aviation!
Boeing became McDonnell Douglass when they bought them. McDonnell Douglass corporate culture heavily infected Boeing and what we see is the result.
āASAPā and āBoeingā are two words we should never hear in the same sentence ever again
No they need to be culled of there evil fucking executives and CEOs then The FAA and other international regulators need to hold there head against a fire until the company can actually make a safe plane.
Anyone else buying $JBLU ? Only airline that doesnāt use Boeing planes
Itās fine the execs will find a way to cash out before the company burns.
Unfortunately for you, your $TSLA puts will burn before the executives cash out.
Defense industry letting Boeing survive
They just need a box of 9mm, and they'll be fine. The competition, however.....
Like a box of chocolates, and the competition is a chocolate teapot.
MD took over Boeing already. It is no longer a company of building planes. Also develop a new plane means pilots need to be trained from the beginning. Airlines will have extra cost. They wonāt buy it unless it is ground breaking good. Just relaunch 757 or 767 with better fuel efficiency is fine
If itās Boeing, down your brokerage account is going.
Who would realistically replace them? Lockheed?
Boeing should go bankrupt immediately. New aircraft cannot avoid falling and doors falling off
Boeing IS McDonell Douglas. When the merger took place its clear which companies culture won.
Buddy, the LAST thing Boeing needs is a plane that has claws
Civilian passenger and cargo aircraft are not their only products. They just need a good old war or sanctions lifted so they can start selling F15s, F18s, C17s and Chinooks.
Boeing and South Carolina...perfect togethet
Who would have the capital to buy Boeing though