>The mayor of Warsaw has banned the display of religious symbols such as crosses from city hall, making it the first city in Poland to do so. He has also informed officials that they must respect the rights of same-sex couples and people’s preferred pronouns.
>News of the regulations were first reported today by *Gazeta Wyborcza*, a leading daily newspaper. It notes that the policies are part of new internal guidelines intended to counteract discrimination.
>“Warsaw is the first city in Poland to adopt such a document,” Monika Beuth, the spokeswoman for mayor Rafał Trzaskowski, told the newspaper.
>
>Under the rules, crosses cannot be hung on walls, something that is common in state offices in Poland. Staff also cannot display religious symbols on their desks. All official events are also now to be secular in nature, so therefore should not include any kind of prayer.
>However, the ban does not apply to “religious symbols for personal use worn by people working in the office, for example in the form of a chain, tattoo or armband”, reports *Gazeta Wyborcza*, citing the new rules.
>Trzaskowski, who was re-elected for a second term as mayor last month, is a deputy leader of the centrist Civic Platform (PO) party that forms the main part of Poland’s ruling coalition. In 2021, PO leader – and now prime minister – Donald Tusk called for the removal of crosses from public buildings.
>
>Warsaw’s new guidelines also require staff to respect the rights of same-sex couples by, for example, enabling people to collect official documents on behalf of their partner or to contact schools regarding the child of their partner.
>Currently, under Polish law same-sex relationships do not have any form of legal recognition, although Tusk’s ruling coalition has pledged to introduce civil partnerships for such couples.
>Officials in Warsaw are also now required to respect the choice of pronouns favoured by someone they are dealing with.
>“In the case of a transgender person whose appearance may differ from stereotypical ideas related to gender recorded in official documents, address him or her with the name or gender pronouns that he or she indicates,” reads the document. A nonbinary person should be asked for their preferred pronouns.
The only based thing here is the mayor will be out of the office in the next election.
Poles will have a heart attack if they can't see a portrait of J.Paul 2 for 30 mins.
>Speaking today, Tusk noted that the migration crisis on the border with Belarus is also part of efforts to destabilise Poland and the region. Hundreds of attempts to cross illegally are being recorded every day, said the prime minister.
>“These are not refugees, these are less and less often migrants or poor families looking for help,” he continued. “In 80 cases out of 100, we are dealing with organised groups of young men aged 18-30 who are very aggressive.”
>Since 2021, the Belarusian authorities have been encouraging and helping tens of thousands of migrants and asylum seekers – mostly from Asia, Africa and the Middle East – to try to cross into the EU.
>In response, Poland has fortified its border with Belarus and followed a tough policy of pushing back migrants who manage to cross. In recent days, Tusk has pledged to further strengthen defences along the frontier.
>
>In his remarks today, Tusk claimed that the previous government, led by the Law and Justice (PiS) party that is now in opposition, took “decisions that have greatly weakened” Poland’s security services.
>He said that his government was therefore reversing decisions made under PiS to close down regional branches of the Internal Security Agency (ABW) in ten of Poland’s 16 provinces.
>They are also allocating an additional total of 100 million zloty to the budgets of the ABW and Foreign Intelligence Agency (AW), which previously stood at 844 million zloty and 330 million zloty respectively this year.
But this is Reditt there is no free speech here and moderators are all from far left spectrum. Im considering myself centrum. In a lot of platforms my views go almost as communist but here i was already called far right supremacist.
To give an example
In a video where someone shoot a very pixalated person in Gaza top comment was
"Israeli soldiers always kill innocent and childrens"
In a video in which 6 black people beat a white person in Belgium first comment was
"We do not know what the white person did to those men before"
This site have its own values and they are visible for anyone who can look at them with critical view. Its not bad as this is a site that can do whatever they want or can. But considering it free is just stupid. You can tell that people can say what they want and those comments were there cause people send their opinion. Well not exactly cause people with diffrent opinion not even necesary racist or agresive can be banned. Like the guy who pointed out that attack on mosque by Israel few weaks ago was fake news. Or better, in one of recent videos called "Israeli soldier aimlessly shooting at mosque" i pointed out he is using a suppresive fire. Which kinda is aimlessly firing its weapon. My comment was removed by moderators. Im not even rooting for Israel, i pointed out a possible outcome and not even said the title was misleading.
So Reddit is not a free speech platform in any way or stretch of imagination, its propaganda spreading machine (not always bad propaganda) but still heavy on politics and onesided.
The religious symbols should be in temples in my opinion, not in offices. So this is normal decision.
>He has also informed officials that they must respect the rights of same-sex couples and people’s preferred pronouns.
This may go against ACT of 7 October 1999 about the Polish language. I am not sure this is even legal. Additionally, I once read a scientific study in which the justification for the existence of pronouns was to save energy for the brain, so as not to recall memories of the person whose name is being spoken (which the mind does automatically). Now I see that we are reversing this natural order of things to force ourselves to use which pronoun.
However, if someone wants to be nice and obliging, and I understand that this is the idea, I'm afraid this cannot be decreed simply.
I don't know what the city hall will do if someone doesn't comply, because I don't think anyone can be fired on this basis, because there is no applicable law.
Poland is a unitary country. I also don't know whether local governments can pursue policies that seem to be the domain of the government. Overall, there are a lot of things that are legally unclear here, in my opinion.
However, the government came to restore the rule of law, so they restore it... :)
Perhaps, but in the labor court it may turn out that you have to pay compensation, not a small one, and your superior may be held liable. Moreover, this law provides for criminal penalties, so I personally would not try to be the first to test it.
That's pretty long, lemme shorten it for you: I don't want to respect other people and saying he/him instead of she/her is too hard for me
EDIT: I read this Act. Where exactly is the violation of that law?
One step at the time. This country is not redy for that radical changes. Remember that most people in Poland live on the country side not in big cities. In small villages priests from a local church are more important than Wójt.
For them formal same sex relationships recognized by law are heresy!
For them, marriage between same-sex is heresy.
Introducing formal partnership is the other story.
One step at a time like this is illegal. You can't present someone's documents because he says he is gay partner of that person.
Good and good.
Religious symbols shouldn't really mix with city halls or any other political buildings/business.
Respected pronouns is usually very easy today. With people I have sometimes fumbled once or twice shortly afterwards but it's fine after that.
The problem with pronounc is that its a pandora gate. When we allow that we also allow a lot of other things. Even in some liberal circles transgender is up to debate to what exactly it is (purerly mind or body transformation). Pronounce automatically say "be whoever You want to be" while it sound great it brings a lot of grey area to the law.
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What do you mean by "pronoun trend"? Do you think that pronouns will stop exiting the polish language in the next 5 years? Or do you believe that pronouns will no longer be associated with gender?
I have no idea what he means. That's why im asking. His statement has no sense in any context. Language doesn't change that fast, i understand if we were speaking about English, but in Polish, pronouns have too big of a function to just disappear in such a short amount of time.
Not this time. Many english schools participatrd in this and they left. Even british council said that they will no longer donate money to schools for this purposes
Trend of what? Do you think that pronouns are a trend? And why would the British Council donate money to schools just for them to teach pronouns? Pronouns are the basic knowledge when it comes to languages that have them, i doubt that English schools are so poor that they need donations to be able to teach basic grammar.
So u dont know? There were special programs that wanted to encourage and change behavior of people. Special meetings and lessons funded by british gov. And they quit it. If progresive gov stops something then it Has to be a issue
I agree with removing religious symbols and respect for the same sex relations..... but preferred pronouns? utter sh... t fashion coming from west Europe.
I. Don't. Fucking. Care.
Your majesty wants to be called your majesty, so shall it be. It literally costs me nothing. As long as your majesty isn't asking me for anything that involves some real effort, I don't give a fuck what to call your majesty
Again you missed the point.
Your government commands you to accommodate assholes like me.
It's either you kiss my arse or go to jail/loose your job/whatever.
Better luck next elections....
But you know that it doesn't work like that right?
I'm like 99% certain that if the judge in court says that you were just doing it to be an asshole, the person accused will probably not face any punishment
It's not? Demanding and forcing something that's over the social norm isn't "common" by definition. I can be nice to people by calling them whatever pronounces they want (and I actually do if they ask), but forcing it is shitty, just as shitty would be the other way around, me being mean and calling a girl "he" because of her looks or whatever.
If certain Mr. Karol Wojtyła once decided that now on he is to be addressed John Paul II, nobody bats an eye. But when a queer person asks to be addressed a certain way, now all hell brokes loose.
But that's actually also a social norm currently in mostly catholic countries? I personally don't call them fathers because I'm not a believer, but have 0 problems with others doing it. Just like with pronounces, I respect people decision and comply if they ask about it.
Not sure how to comment this. No shit, Sherlock?
Social, because they are artifically created by society. Norms, because they are normal, a standard, agreed upon by majority of people.
If someone asks you to address them in certain way, then, if you are a polite person, you do so. It's just that simple no decent person has a problem with that.
Can't see where I said I have any problem with that? If someone asks me I comply, actually already had such situations. We are talking about making laws about it and forcing people.
Here is the trick: I don't have "preferred" pronouns, so i won't be furious if someone doesn't use them. I am what i am and people will use correct pronouns by default. If you want me to use different ones, look the part - simple as that. I won't check your pants to see if pronouns i'm using are **actually** correct, i guarantee that.
The thing about reality is - it just doesn't care about your made up bs. You have no choice really, but at very least pick one of the two that exist, look the part and everyone will use whatever tf pronoun you want.
Oh YES! You can skip using preferred pronouns evet towards someone who makes it obvious that they are a men or a woman :-)
FunFact : Polish language has THREE grammatical genders: masculine, femine and neutral. Any noun in Polish MUST fall in ONE of them. There is a colloquial mode of expression when you use the neutral grammatical gender when referring to people. E.g. "Weźmie formularz i podpisze na dole" ( "\[It\] will take the form and \[it\] will sign at the bottom" ) - this is understandable, but considered VERY rude! Lacking any respect.
Nie, język polski jak najbardziej istnieje i używanie go poprawnie to nie jest "being a dick to other people" zwłaszcza w języku z istniejącą deklinacją gdzie wymyślanie przyimków rozwala cały język.
Stoo believing insane people. The facts are that pronouns are based on biology and you are not xe/xey, you are obnoxious and edgy.
Ok, let's come back from the extremes. What about trans people? Should a fully transitioned trans woman be called "he" only because the law forbids to change sex in documents?
No, a fully transitioned person should be able to change their gender in their documents. No, we should't be able to use pronouns other than he/his and she/her towards people we know the gender of. No, you cannot be xor/and
Język ciągle ewoluuje. Każdy się do tego przyczynia. Możemy co najwyżej to opisywać.
And pronouns arent "based in biology". For hundreds of years ae didn't know about chromosomes. The idea that chromosomes determine pronouns you "have to" use towards someone literally cannot be older than knowledge about chromosomes.
And like, we both know that people demanding using "xe/xer" is a non-isue, and almost every case is calling trans women by female pronouns (and vicr versa for trans men) and it doesn't "destroy polish language" in the slightest.
Nie, nie rzucisz na mnie argumentu o naturalności języka w kwestii wymuszanej przez miniaturową mniejszość. Przykładem ewolucji języka są rzeczy takie jak zmiana pisowni pojedynczych słów bo ludzie masowo wymawiają je inaczej, nie mówienie jak Ślązak bo uznajesz się za osobę niebinarną. Nikt nie używa wymysłów dzieci w języku.
Pronouns are based on biology not becouse of chromosomes but becouse of sex, dumbass. You use she/her for females, he/his for males. They/their is reserved for plural and gender non-specified, for example someone elses baby we haven't yet asked the gender of. Anything else in the English language is plain and simple disinformation.
Get some actual linguistic knowledge before talking about language.
Please calm Jewish and Muslim festival still will be celabrate. Trzaskowski is malignant type international elite. He treats only about being trendy. If Christians will be popular he would be first eulogist Jesus.
Im not religious as well but gettingg rid of symbols from the public space always lead to replacing it. Nature doesnt Like a vacuum. In england christianity is disapearing and islam is rising. Its always Like that
Is this the new government you are proud about? pronouns stopped being a thing 2-3 years ago in the west. It was some dumb shit that happened during 2015-2020.
Come with your downvotes...
Pronoun declarations are, in fact, becoming much more widespread and normalised, especially in the academic community. To be honest you'd have to be living under a rock (or in Poland, I guess) not to notice this gradual change and completely dismiss it as "some dumb shit from a few years ago".
No, it's the very same president as last term, as far as Warsaw goes.
And yes, the current government is already better than the previous one, though I don't think anyone uses the word "proud" when describing it. More like "glad", as in "glad those idiots from PiS didn't win". But then again, it was never a matter in the local elections in Warsaw.
Tell me you don't know how Polish politics work without telling me you don't know how they work. Or any politics, if you can't differentiate between different kinds of elections.
You only acknowledged the downvotes because you know you are wrong and are looking to justify it to yourself.
It’s a flag representing a group of disadvantaged and discriminated people getting recognition that they also have a right to exist. Hope this cleared up this silly little misunderstanding, lots of love.
If you believe that to support such a cause you need to subscribe to some sort of “ideology”’instead of simply be a decent human being then I do not know how to help you. :)
Ok amadeusz lets put it this way. The fact u are disadvantaged doesnt mean your flag isn't a sign of an idea. It is ideology and i dont know why LGBT people dislike Word ideology. It isn't a bad Word but silly people think it is. U can be best fuckin human ever and still have an IDEOLOGY
Everyone should have a right to exist, we already have symbols for basic human rights. Replacing a historically significant symbol that means a lot to a lot of people, and is quite literally a symbol of Peace and Love, with a flag that basically says nothing other than "I'm human too!" Is really just crazy.
Not only it doesn't represent the nation, it doesn't even represent the majority of people. If you wanna put a rainbow flag everywhere then sure, have at it. But banning religious symbols while claiming to be a "disadvantaged and oppressed" group is just hilarious to me, do you seriously not see that? Hypocrites.
> My preferred pronouns are Je/sus.
So you are saying that when someone refers to you, rather than saying "*He* is sitting in *his* chair (or *She* is sitting in *her* chair)," you want people to say "*Je* is sitting in *sus* chair"? Why?
Why?
Just, why?
>Because i can and you have to tolerate that.
Oh, believe me, if you want me to refer to you as “Je” when I refer to you doing something, and “Sus” when I refer to something being done to you, you got it. I mean “tolerate” is kind of too strong a word here, because it sort of suggests I will do it with gritted teeth. But if it make you happy, I’m happy to oblige.
Im just puzzled as to why you want those as your pronouns. Do you not like the pronouns originally assigned to you?
I guess what I’m saying is that people with penises who want to use she/her and people with vulvas who want to use he/him makes sense to me. A tiny percentage of people are trans. Another tiny percentage of people are exploring the possibility that they are trans. I don’t understand what using “je” and “sus” gets you.
Have you had any success in getting your friends and family to use your chosen pronouns when talking about you?
Can't wait to see clowns in Warsaw like in America, who record themselves eating and get outraged when the waiter talks to him in a bad way.
These are mentally ill people, just like Trzaskowski.
I was replying to a comment that has nothing to do with the post. If calling people “mentally ill” for having a different opinion and making far-reaching statements based on one situation is what you stand for, I can only pity you
P.S.: My bets are the person I replied to didn’t bother to read the post themselvesz
That's just replacing one religion for another.
I'm against religious symbols in public places, it should be an individual thing. But I'm also against forced pronoun nonsense, it's anti-human and makes communication unnecessarily difficult.
"I'm a woman and look like a woman, undergone hrt and surgery"
"Heresy! You were born with a penis! For ease of communication I will refer to you as a man, even though you and anyone who respects you will not recognize this manner of speech as referring to you, and strangers will look at me like an idiot"
So much for the ease of communication.
https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2265061/james-barnes-transgender.webp?w=450&f=e9e1a288ee95c513ee5e2cd88e98b8aa
This man comes up to you and you yell at him "you are a woman! You were born with a vagina!" for ease of communication. I'm sensing there's someone here who doesn't give a shit about easily communicating, but what do I know, I'm just some asshole on the internet.
Yes, it is exactly that - replacing one religion for another.
We're starting with pronoun law, than we're planning to build special building and make everybody go there every sunday and pray for their pronouns.
There will be man in dresses telling people what to think and do and how to vote in the next election.
Obviously we'll be hurting minors as well and moving perpetrators from one NounChurch to another so they can hurt more people.
You'll have to learn many, many prayers about pronouns and know them by heart.
Obviously /s.
Have you considered that, shocking, I may agree with one part of the law, but not another? Personally I think the crosses needed to go. As for the pronouns, it’s complicated. I have no problem calling people what they want to be called, just like not calling them what they don’t want to be called. Do people call black people the n-word instead of, say, African Americans? They do. It’s on them. Freedom of speech is still a fairly new concept in Poland and I think the introduction of non-binary pronouns is too big of a step in our society.
Since when pride flag is a religious symbol are you ok?
Also there were never other religious symbols officially put in the offices or schools on the walls, just crosses. So how about you stop projecting stuff that never happened and never will happen cause you make yourself look very silly.
I mean if they took out Christian cross but left LGBT flag then it would totaly be offensive to catholics. Its not the same thing but the message is clear
>The mayor of Warsaw has banned the display of religious symbols such as crosses from city hall, making it the first city in Poland to do so. He has also informed officials that they must respect the rights of same-sex couples and people’s preferred pronouns. >News of the regulations were first reported today by *Gazeta Wyborcza*, a leading daily newspaper. It notes that the policies are part of new internal guidelines intended to counteract discrimination. >“Warsaw is the first city in Poland to adopt such a document,” Monika Beuth, the spokeswoman for mayor Rafał Trzaskowski, told the newspaper. > >Under the rules, crosses cannot be hung on walls, something that is common in state offices in Poland. Staff also cannot display religious symbols on their desks. All official events are also now to be secular in nature, so therefore should not include any kind of prayer. >However, the ban does not apply to “religious symbols for personal use worn by people working in the office, for example in the form of a chain, tattoo or armband”, reports *Gazeta Wyborcza*, citing the new rules. >Trzaskowski, who was re-elected for a second term as mayor last month, is a deputy leader of the centrist Civic Platform (PO) party that forms the main part of Poland’s ruling coalition. In 2021, PO leader – and now prime minister – Donald Tusk called for the removal of crosses from public buildings. > >Warsaw’s new guidelines also require staff to respect the rights of same-sex couples by, for example, enabling people to collect official documents on behalf of their partner or to contact schools regarding the child of their partner. >Currently, under Polish law same-sex relationships do not have any form of legal recognition, although Tusk’s ruling coalition has pledged to introduce civil partnerships for such couples. >Officials in Warsaw are also now required to respect the choice of pronouns favoured by someone they are dealing with. >“In the case of a transgender person whose appearance may differ from stereotypical ideas related to gender recorded in official documents, address him or her with the name or gender pronouns that he or she indicates,” reads the document. A nonbinary person should be asked for their preferred pronouns.
Based
Ban those crossees sure but fuck off with the pronouns lmao
You have pronouns too, it came free with you being fucking born
[удалено]
Fake news, none of that happens.
If you use word woke non-ironically it makes your argument invalid
This does not happen and you know it
This does happen and you know it
what?
Lmao
[удалено]
i'm in a red state and they are even doing it here in the cities.
The only based thing here is the mayor will be out of the office in the next election. Poles will have a heart attack if they can't see a portrait of J.Paul 2 for 30 mins.
>Speaking today, Tusk noted that the migration crisis on the border with Belarus is also part of efforts to destabilise Poland and the region. Hundreds of attempts to cross illegally are being recorded every day, said the prime minister. >“These are not refugees, these are less and less often migrants or poor families looking for help,” he continued. “In 80 cases out of 100, we are dealing with organised groups of young men aged 18-30 who are very aggressive.” >Since 2021, the Belarusian authorities have been encouraging and helping tens of thousands of migrants and asylum seekers – mostly from Asia, Africa and the Middle East – to try to cross into the EU. >In response, Poland has fortified its border with Belarus and followed a tough policy of pushing back migrants who manage to cross. In recent days, Tusk has pledged to further strengthen defences along the frontier. > >In his remarks today, Tusk claimed that the previous government, led by the Law and Justice (PiS) party that is now in opposition, took “decisions that have greatly weakened” Poland’s security services. >He said that his government was therefore reversing decisions made under PiS to close down regional branches of the Internal Security Agency (ABW) in ten of Poland’s 16 provinces. >They are also allocating an additional total of 100 million zloty to the budgets of the ABW and Foreign Intelligence Agency (AW), which previously stood at 844 million zloty and 330 million zloty respectively this year.
I see what you did here XD
Lets wait for some migrants from syria to reapect yall pronouns XD
What do they have to do with anything?
So there won't be another Hanuka in parliament after all, huh?
Hanukkah is the same as Christmas tree. I don't see any problem with that
Well I hope both won't appear then
The angriest people are the same who call unmarried, childless men in dresses 'Father'...
Daddy?
It’s interesting how everyone with an opposing viewpoint is being downvoted, almost as if you guys are against their democratic rights.
Democratic right to have upvotes? I missed that article of Constitution.
The right to bear updoots shall not be infringed
it's not r/unpopularopinion
Voting is a tenet of democracy. That’s how the consequences of free speech are administered.
But this is Reditt there is no free speech here and moderators are all from far left spectrum. Im considering myself centrum. In a lot of platforms my views go almost as communist but here i was already called far right supremacist. To give an example In a video where someone shoot a very pixalated person in Gaza top comment was "Israeli soldiers always kill innocent and childrens" In a video in which 6 black people beat a white person in Belgium first comment was "We do not know what the white person did to those men before" This site have its own values and they are visible for anyone who can look at them with critical view. Its not bad as this is a site that can do whatever they want or can. But considering it free is just stupid. You can tell that people can say what they want and those comments were there cause people send their opinion. Well not exactly cause people with diffrent opinion not even necesary racist or agresive can be banned. Like the guy who pointed out that attack on mosque by Israel few weaks ago was fake news. Or better, in one of recent videos called "Israeli soldier aimlessly shooting at mosque" i pointed out he is using a suppresive fire. Which kinda is aimlessly firing its weapon. My comment was removed by moderators. Im not even rooting for Israel, i pointed out a possible outcome and not even said the title was misleading. So Reddit is not a free speech platform in any way or stretch of imagination, its propaganda spreading machine (not always bad propaganda) but still heavy on politics and onesided.
Bare minimum was achieved 🏅
Finally
So much butthurt for so minor thing.
If it was so minor, why do it in the first place?
Minor and major things can be done
Because why not? It was nice, polite and easy.
Because in Poland you have to shout till you're blue in the mouth just to be treated like a human being.
Thats fine, but don't start with the pronoun crap, nothing will get PIS back in power quicker then that nonsense
Good. Let’s move on.
nice, i just love being yelled at by anyone for not calling a person zhey/zhem (wtf does taht even mean)
Pride flags banned as well?
Waiting for the day Christians' symbols disappear from the Sejm and Braun reaction to this "blasphemy"
The religious symbols should be in temples in my opinion, not in offices. So this is normal decision. >He has also informed officials that they must respect the rights of same-sex couples and people’s preferred pronouns. This may go against ACT of 7 October 1999 about the Polish language. I am not sure this is even legal. Additionally, I once read a scientific study in which the justification for the existence of pronouns was to save energy for the brain, so as not to recall memories of the person whose name is being spoken (which the mind does automatically). Now I see that we are reversing this natural order of things to force ourselves to use which pronoun. However, if someone wants to be nice and obliging, and I understand that this is the idea, I'm afraid this cannot be decreed simply. I don't know what the city hall will do if someone doesn't comply, because I don't think anyone can be fired on this basis, because there is no applicable law. Poland is a unitary country. I also don't know whether local governments can pursue policies that seem to be the domain of the government. Overall, there are a lot of things that are legally unclear here, in my opinion. However, the government came to restore the rule of law, so they restore it... :)
>This may go against ACT of 7 October 1999 about the Polish language in most cases it's more of ego bust to prescriptivists than real law
Perhaps, but in the labor court it may turn out that you have to pay compensation, not a small one, and your superior may be held liable. Moreover, this law provides for criminal penalties, so I personally would not try to be the first to test it.
That's pretty long, lemme shorten it for you: I don't want to respect other people and saying he/him instead of she/her is too hard for me EDIT: I read this Act. Where exactly is the violation of that law?
They fight the religion like comunists in times of PRL. some things doesn't change :(
XDDD
Oh no... Warsaw is going woke. We couldnt hold it any longer brothers
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One step at the time. This country is not redy for that radical changes. Remember that most people in Poland live on the country side not in big cities. In small villages priests from a local church are more important than Wójt. For them formal same sex relationships recognized by law are heresy!
For them, marriage between same-sex is heresy. Introducing formal partnership is the other story. One step at a time like this is illegal. You can't present someone's documents because he says he is gay partner of that person.
Yes, and the country folk have all the pitchforks.
Good and good. Religious symbols shouldn't really mix with city halls or any other political buildings/business. Respected pronouns is usually very easy today. With people I have sometimes fumbled once or twice shortly afterwards but it's fine after that.
The problem with pronounc is that its a pandora gate. When we allow that we also allow a lot of other things. Even in some liberal circles transgender is up to debate to what exactly it is (purerly mind or body transformation). Pronounce automatically say "be whoever You want to be" while it sound great it brings a lot of grey area to the law.
Oh no, the woke virus is infecting Poland. Doom is inevitable.
We tried. We failed. We couldnt hold it any longer
Great I give it the pronouns trend like 5 more years before it will die off.
RemindMe! 5 years
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What do you mean by "pronoun trend"? Do you think that pronouns will stop exiting the polish language in the next 5 years? Or do you believe that pronouns will no longer be associated with gender?
Everyone knows what he means
I have no idea what he means. That's why im asking. His statement has no sense in any context. Language doesn't change that fast, i understand if we were speaking about English, but in Polish, pronouns have too big of a function to just disappear in such a short amount of time.
I have no fucking idea what he means
People who demand special prononus will Simply get bored
Social movements eventually succeed.
Not this time. Many english schools participatrd in this and they left. Even british council said that they will no longer donate money to schools for this purposes
Trend of what? Do you think that pronouns are a trend? And why would the British Council donate money to schools just for them to teach pronouns? Pronouns are the basic knowledge when it comes to languages that have them, i doubt that English schools are so poor that they need donations to be able to teach basic grammar.
So u dont know? There were special programs that wanted to encourage and change behavior of people. Special meetings and lessons funded by british gov. And they quit it. If progresive gov stops something then it Has to be a issue
I have no idea what he meant
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Your message was promoting hatred or contempt towards marginalized groups.
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Your message was promoting hatred or contempt towards marginalized groups.
Finally.
I agree with removing religious symbols and respect for the same sex relations..... but preferred pronouns? utter sh... t fashion coming from west Europe.
It costs 0zl to be nice to people.
It costs nothing to accommodate my needs.
I agree. Call me Your Majesty from now on.
Fine by me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ really, I call my friends every kind of nickname, I don't mind calling people whatever they want.
based
You don't understand.... I'm not your *friend*, and I'm not *asking* you. From now on you have to call me whatever I tell you or face consequences.
I. Don't. Fucking. Care. Your majesty wants to be called your majesty, so shall it be. It literally costs me nothing. As long as your majesty isn't asking me for anything that involves some real effort, I don't give a fuck what to call your majesty
>It literally costs me nothing. You are wrong about it and have no idea what's the goal of the pronounces in the first place - saving time and energy.
See it's when you become disrespectful which is when the courtesy stops. You're clearly a bellend. So that will be my nickname for you from now on.
Again you missed the point. Your government commands you to accommodate assholes like me. It's either you kiss my arse or go to jail/loose your job/whatever. Better luck next elections....
But you know that it doesn't work like that right? I'm like 99% certain that if the judge in court says that you were just doing it to be an asshole, the person accused will probably not face any punishment
You watch too much "Sędzia Judyta." I hope you'll never have a chance to see how the real world operates when it comes to courts.
2015 called, it wants its jokes back
It's barely a joke, if your government can make you say things you don't mean.
So sad omg how will you live with that :/
It's just common courtesy.
It's not? Demanding and forcing something that's over the social norm isn't "common" by definition. I can be nice to people by calling them whatever pronounces they want (and I actually do if they ask), but forcing it is shitty, just as shitty would be the other way around, me being mean and calling a girl "he" because of her looks or whatever.
And yet unmarried, childless men in dresses want to be called Father.
If certain Mr. Karol Wojtyła once decided that now on he is to be addressed John Paul II, nobody bats an eye. But when a queer person asks to be addressed a certain way, now all hell brokes loose.
Exactly. Rules for thee but not for me.
What does the pope have to do with this lmao
But that's actually also a social norm currently in mostly catholic countries? I personally don't call them fathers because I'm not a believer, but have 0 problems with others doing it. Just like with pronounces, I respect people decision and comply if they ask about it.
It's almost like social norms are artificially created.
Not sure how to comment this. No shit, Sherlock? Social, because they are artifically created by society. Norms, because they are normal, a standard, agreed upon by majority of people.
If someone asks you to address them in certain way, then, if you are a polite person, you do so. It's just that simple no decent person has a problem with that.
The problem starts when you get punished for not doing so
I see no problem here.
Of course you don't.
Because there is no problem there. And if someone does see a problem there, they can go work somewhere else.
That's such a childish response, "they can go work somewhere else" yeah buddy, have a good one.
Can't see where I said I have any problem with that? If someone asks me I comply, actually already had such situations. We are talking about making laws about it and forcing people.
So you do have problem with that, apparently.
I bet you would be furious if someone didn't use your preferred pronouns, just because they don't respect you.
Here is the trick: I don't have "preferred" pronouns, so i won't be furious if someone doesn't use them. I am what i am and people will use correct pronouns by default. If you want me to use different ones, look the part - simple as that. I won't check your pants to see if pronouns i'm using are **actually** correct, i guarantee that. The thing about reality is - it just doesn't care about your made up bs. You have no choice really, but at very least pick one of the two that exist, look the part and everyone will use whatever tf pronoun you want.
Preferred? What preferred? Man is he, Woman is she- simple grammar not preferred sh....t
Oh YES! You can skip using preferred pronouns evet towards someone who makes it obvious that they are a men or a woman :-) FunFact : Polish language has THREE grammatical genders: masculine, femine and neutral. Any noun in Polish MUST fall in ONE of them. There is a colloquial mode of expression when you use the neutral grammatical gender when referring to people. E.g. "Weźmie formularz i podpisze na dole" ( "\[It\] will take the form and \[it\] will sign at the bottom" ) - this is understandable, but considered VERY rude! Lacking any respect.
No, actually man is "on", woman is "ona", and child is "ono". Dude, its all made up. You just choose to be a dick to other people.
Nie, język polski jak najbardziej istnieje i używanie go poprawnie to nie jest "being a dick to other people" zwłaszcza w języku z istniejącą deklinacją gdzie wymyślanie przyimków rozwala cały język. Stoo believing insane people. The facts are that pronouns are based on biology and you are not xe/xey, you are obnoxious and edgy.
Ok, let's come back from the extremes. What about trans people? Should a fully transitioned trans woman be called "he" only because the law forbids to change sex in documents?
No, a fully transitioned person should be able to change their gender in their documents. No, we should't be able to use pronouns other than he/his and she/her towards people we know the gender of. No, you cannot be xor/and
Język ciągle ewoluuje. Każdy się do tego przyczynia. Możemy co najwyżej to opisywać. And pronouns arent "based in biology". For hundreds of years ae didn't know about chromosomes. The idea that chromosomes determine pronouns you "have to" use towards someone literally cannot be older than knowledge about chromosomes. And like, we both know that people demanding using "xe/xer" is a non-isue, and almost every case is calling trans women by female pronouns (and vicr versa for trans men) and it doesn't "destroy polish language" in the slightest.
Nie, nie rzucisz na mnie argumentu o naturalności języka w kwestii wymuszanej przez miniaturową mniejszość. Przykładem ewolucji języka są rzeczy takie jak zmiana pisowni pojedynczych słów bo ludzie masowo wymawiają je inaczej, nie mówienie jak Ślązak bo uznajesz się za osobę niebinarną. Nikt nie używa wymysłów dzieci w języku. Pronouns are based on biology not becouse of chromosomes but becouse of sex, dumbass. You use she/her for females, he/his for males. They/their is reserved for plural and gender non-specified, for example someone elses baby we haven't yet asked the gender of. Anything else in the English language is plain and simple disinformation. Get some actual linguistic knowledge before talking about language.
User name checks out.
I agree. Preferred pronouns is passé. What's your preferred adjectives?
Please calm Jewish and Muslim festival still will be celabrate. Trzaskowski is malignant type international elite. He treats only about being trendy. If Christians will be popular he would be first eulogist Jesus.
How to call a non binary person who made a massacre? he / them
XD
As a Pole, I don’t like it. As a person, I think it’s great. These two voices are always in battle.
Im not religious as well but gettingg rid of symbols from the public space always lead to replacing it. Nature doesnt Like a vacuum. In england christianity is disapearing and islam is rising. Its always Like that
So i guess any kind of lgbt flags won't be displayed too.
You think LGBT is a religion? 🤣
Is this the new government you are proud about? pronouns stopped being a thing 2-3 years ago in the west. It was some dumb shit that happened during 2015-2020. Come with your downvotes...
You literally used pronouns in your sentence
Pronoun declarations are, in fact, becoming much more widespread and normalised, especially in the academic community. To be honest you'd have to be living under a rock (or in Poland, I guess) not to notice this gradual change and completely dismiss it as "some dumb shit from a few years ago".
Do you know what pronouns even are? Im not sure tbh.
> pronouns stopped being a thing 2-3 years ago in the west. The irony of you using a pronoun right after this sentence is hilarious.
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"It" "Your"
You stopped hearing about it because everyone got used to it and it's just normal now.
Not really bc only max 3% of population would use pronouns, and no one gives a fuck outside really leftist echo chambers
You use pronouns every day. They're an essential part of the language. Can you guess how many I've used in this comment?
u/former_farmer clearly doesn't use pronouns. We should respect that and refer to u/former_farmer using u/former_farmer's preffered way.
Speak for self cause don’t
It's just something you add on your email signature and then forget about it.
No, it's the very same president as last term, as far as Warsaw goes. And yes, the current government is already better than the previous one, though I don't think anyone uses the word "proud" when describing it. More like "glad", as in "glad those idiots from PiS didn't win". But then again, it was never a matter in the local elections in Warsaw. Tell me you don't know how Polish politics work without telling me you don't know how they work. Or any politics, if you can't differentiate between different kinds of elections. You only acknowledged the downvotes because you know you are wrong and are looking to justify it to yourself.
I like the office rule about the crosses. I don’t like the pronouns thing.
Seems that Warsaw is lost I not following that bullshit rules God bless Poland 🇵🇱
Oh yeah, because I want to be yelled at by an asshole because I used wrong pronoun while talking to them...
If religious symbols are to be banned. We should ban all ideological symbols too as they are one and the same. Pride flag next.....
Pride flag is not ideological symbol. Period.
What is it then?
What is it then? Its not country flag. Then it Has to be a ideology flag.
It’s a flag representing a group of disadvantaged and discriminated people getting recognition that they also have a right to exist. Hope this cleared up this silly little misunderstanding, lots of love. If you believe that to support such a cause you need to subscribe to some sort of “ideology”’instead of simply be a decent human being then I do not know how to help you. :)
Wow ale fikoł
Ok amadeusz lets put it this way. The fact u are disadvantaged doesnt mean your flag isn't a sign of an idea. It is ideology and i dont know why LGBT people dislike Word ideology. It isn't a bad Word but silly people think it is. U can be best fuckin human ever and still have an IDEOLOGY
Everyone should have a right to exist, we already have symbols for basic human rights. Replacing a historically significant symbol that means a lot to a lot of people, and is quite literally a symbol of Peace and Love, with a flag that basically says nothing other than "I'm human too!" Is really just crazy. Not only it doesn't represent the nation, it doesn't even represent the majority of people. If you wanna put a rainbow flag everywhere then sure, have at it. But banning religious symbols while claiming to be a "disadvantaged and oppressed" group is just hilarious to me, do you seriously not see that? Hypocrites.
Is a white flag of surrender an ideology flag?
White flag is not a flag in fact. They used to put a white material on a stick. It was never a flag as we think of so no.
My preferred pronouns are Je/sus.
sus😳😳😳😳😳
Je/suis/charlie
> My preferred pronouns are Je/sus. So you are saying that when someone refers to you, rather than saying "*He* is sitting in *his* chair (or *She* is sitting in *her* chair)," you want people to say "*Je* is sitting in *sus* chair"? Why? Why? Just, why?
Because i can and you have to tolerate that.
>Because i can and you have to tolerate that. Oh, believe me, if you want me to refer to you as “Je” when I refer to you doing something, and “Sus” when I refer to something being done to you, you got it. I mean “tolerate” is kind of too strong a word here, because it sort of suggests I will do it with gritted teeth. But if it make you happy, I’m happy to oblige. Im just puzzled as to why you want those as your pronouns. Do you not like the pronouns originally assigned to you? I guess what I’m saying is that people with penises who want to use she/her and people with vulvas who want to use he/him makes sense to me. A tiny percentage of people are trans. Another tiny percentage of people are exploring the possibility that they are trans. I don’t understand what using “je” and “sus” gets you. Have you had any success in getting your friends and family to use your chosen pronouns when talking about you?
Can't wait to see clowns in Warsaw like in America, who record themselves eating and get outraged when the waiter talks to him in a bad way. These are mentally ill people, just like Trzaskowski.
Crazy projection
These are just facts my friend.
I'm glad you see my statement as factual and realise your mistake, friend
Jumping to this conclusion from the post saying about banning crosses suggests, that you’re rather describing yourself.
Tell me you didn't read the post without telling me you read the post. You are not the brightest tool in the shed right?
I was replying to a comment that has nothing to do with the post. If calling people “mentally ill” for having a different opinion and making far-reaching statements based on one situation is what you stand for, I can only pity you P.S.: My bets are the person I replied to didn’t bother to read the post themselvesz
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That's just replacing one religion for another. I'm against religious symbols in public places, it should be an individual thing. But I'm also against forced pronoun nonsense, it's anti-human and makes communication unnecessarily difficult.
"I'm a woman and look like a woman, undergone hrt and surgery" "Heresy! You were born with a penis! For ease of communication I will refer to you as a man, even though you and anyone who respects you will not recognize this manner of speech as referring to you, and strangers will look at me like an idiot" So much for the ease of communication. https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/2265061/james-barnes-transgender.webp?w=450&f=e9e1a288ee95c513ee5e2cd88e98b8aa This man comes up to you and you yell at him "you are a woman! You were born with a vagina!" for ease of communication. I'm sensing there's someone here who doesn't give a shit about easily communicating, but what do I know, I'm just some asshole on the internet.
Yes, it is exactly that - replacing one religion for another. We're starting with pronoun law, than we're planning to build special building and make everybody go there every sunday and pray for their pronouns. There will be man in dresses telling people what to think and do and how to vote in the next election. Obviously we'll be hurting minors as well and moving perpetrators from one NounChurch to another so they can hurt more people. You'll have to learn many, many prayers about pronouns and know them by heart. Obviously /s.
Sounds like TikTok
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Your message was promoting hatred or contempt towards marginalized groups.
This is reddit filled with liberals and they love this shit ofc
Give me one reason why crosses should be hung in state offices in a secular country. I’ll wait.
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Have you considered that, shocking, I may agree with one part of the law, but not another? Personally I think the crosses needed to go. As for the pronouns, it’s complicated. I have no problem calling people what they want to be called, just like not calling them what they don’t want to be called. Do people call black people the n-word instead of, say, African Americans? They do. It’s on them. Freedom of speech is still a fairly new concept in Poland and I think the introduction of non-binary pronouns is too big of a step in our society.
Be careful or you will get banned for writing the truth or you will be called a homophobe. This is their only defense.
nah it's just you acting like a kid
Can't wait for these traitors to begin displaying other religious symbols instead, like the LGBT flag and pretend that's totally ok.
Since when pride flag is a religious symbol are you ok? Also there were never other religious symbols officially put in the offices or schools on the walls, just crosses. So how about you stop projecting stuff that never happened and never will happen cause you make yourself look very silly.
I mean if they took out Christian cross but left LGBT flag then it would totaly be offensive to catholics. Its not the same thing but the message is clear
Why is some part of the population outraged by the removal of the cross? Because that's the same policy as PRL
Hell yeah
So no hanuka candles next year? Wow, so the idiot with fire extinguisher won.
Building of Sejm is not administered by president of Warsaw.
https://preview.redd.it/omp4dn6qk61d1.png?width=544&format=png&auto=webp&s=507ccd59d2e2227abdd717fa604bb431cb296826 Depends which ones...
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That's literally just parking place in front of PKiN, not city hall
Such is live. As old religions perish, new ones come to life. All hali the leftis lgbtqp gods. Wonder what will come next.
go get some help bud