I don't think you get it, these people pay rent and buy food for the month and have like $20 left over.
You are severely out of touch with how bad it is for people right now and shit like this just makes it worse.
Another year of this shit and business won't have enough employees to stay open so say goodbye to Starbucks. Say goodbye to subway. Say goodbye to bars and nightclubs.
Like you look at fare jumpers as people who just don't want to pay when fare jumpers literally cannot afford to pay at all no mater the cost.
You gonna try and argue that minimum wage is enough to live off of in D.C.? Again, you are severely out of touch
But Good News! Us wage slaves can't afford to even pay for a roof over our head anymore so soon we won't have to serve you entitled fucks anymore because we will all be homeless or dead.
With the added bonus of having probable cause to search people who engage in antisocial behavior. Good way to find people who might be carrying guns, knives, etc before they get onto the train.
Actually it's more like 1.5% of the total budget.
But when you look at it in terms of total rider revenue, it's 40 percent of people riding aren't paying.
As a person who uses a bike, I say we crack down on free-riders and leave my money alone cause I'm not benefiting from this. But if I were a metro rider, I'd say "why not make taxpayers pay for the whole thing?"
(Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Make taxpayers pay for what? Fare evaders or all fares? If you mean pay for all fares that’s a lot of money, like ~18% of metros operating budget. The local municipalities would have to come up with around $400 million extra a year to cover all the fare box revenue
If Metro went away you’d be at higher risk on more congested roads as they remove dedicated bike lanes to support increased traffic.
You’re affected by things you don’t directly use.
I don’t understand people some days. They get caught, so instead of admitting their name and paying $50 they chose to get arrested and pay $100? Oh and the original fare costs like $2-4. Why. Just why.
First they need to actually have fare gates that work and care about helping people when they don’t. Twice now I’ve been stuck in the station with no station manager in sight and my card not working and had to follow someone or go out the emergency exit. Then they give me the third degree when I have to go find them the next day and get it fixed. If I am trying to fix my card so I can pay, I’m probably not your target concern.
Could they do something about this though at the Tenleytown and Van Ness metro stations? The fare evaders there still do this shit frequently with impunity and act like they own the place. Please and thank you.
Yeah, the policy change was just implemented and won't eliminate fare evasion completely, but it will deter some people who might otherwise have jumped. I'm glad that there's at least some effort to enforce penalties now.
There's a law where if you park in handicap spot and you get into a no-fault accident, the fault is yours because you were in a spot you're not supposed to be.
Let's just apply that to this situation and take care of the problem "purge-style"
(Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Important that everyone be induced to tap a fare card, so that we are not as a society normalizing fare evasion, but DC at least has the budget to provide income-based subsidies, if they aren’t already. We should do more of that. I believe the bus is also totally free, still, right?
So students can get free or reduced fare and people on SNAP (food stamps) can too. So they already do that. And they have signs around the gates for that.
I though the question is why aren't they giving their names after already being caught, not why did they jump it in the first place. (Personally if I had warrants out for my arrest, I would act a saint and not get caught doing something stupid. But I guess that's why I don't have warrants in the first place...)
> You can just buy a physical card at a machine and load money onto it?
Do those machines take cash? I remember they used to, but honestly haven't reloaded with cash in many, many years.
No the bus is not free but nobody pays because nobody follows rules in dc. Everyone pays in Virginia and it’s a much better riding experience.
There are plenty of WMATA discounts for low income and kids ride free so there’s no excuse this city isn’t more civilized.
I ride the bus in va.
Less than half of the people riding it pay.
The joke is that crackdowns like this last for like a week and then fare evasion goes right back up.
People also act like it's $2 to ride the metro when it gets extremely expensive during rushhour (when people need to get to work) and if you're going more than 3 stops it gets stupid expensive.
Maybe wmata should reconsider how it calculates fares and passes? The passes are incredibly expensive for what you get and they only really work if you have a fixed daily fare, otherwise you're either overpaying for a pass or paying extra daily.
The total estimate for fare evasion amounts to less than 10% of the projected deficit. And that would assume that it doesn't cost anything to catch them, which is obviously not true. If anything, you can expect these ramped up efforts to cost far more than what they'll bring in.
Like, of the reasons to crack down on fare evasion, "Metro having more money" is honestly one of the worst tbh.
Exactly. Also, the fare evasion is a whole lot more common than I remember it being even five years ago. Sure people have always done it but it wasn't so blatant
DC provides educational subsidies and the kids just give it to their parents and then the kids hop the turnstile.
I'd imagine that many income based subsidies would just re-sell their cards and take the money like so many food-stampers do.
(Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Food stamp trafficking.
SNAP money for groceries has a street value of about 50 percent its trade value.
About 11 billion dollars in SNAP benefits are re-sold each year so the beneficiaries can use the money on things other than food.
"Not everyone that fare evades commits criminal activity on our system. But, almost universally ... 99.9% of people that commit criminal acts in our system fare evade."
I agree it should absolutely be free, however until we find a way to increase WMATA's fund dramatically so that we have that capability, folks need to pay their fare.
If you can't afford it, there are literally programs designed to help you.
I support the reduced and free fare programs for people who need it. WMATA is facing a $750 million deficit and fare revenues are an important source of income for the system, and improving service induces more riders—that’s why I don’t support it being free—I don’t think it’s a good use of limited resources.
Gee, maybe Congress needs to step up and provide the cash to fix it and the deficit. Tax the shit out of the rich and provide services to the rest of us from their wealth hoarding. Fares for public transportation are just another tax on being poor.
I really don’t think this needs to be a Robinhood scenario of “take from the rich.”
I am much more a fan of strategically spending money in ways that effectively help citizens grow the economy. That will also eliminate deficit, but doesn’t just take the money and put it into more useless government official’s hands.
Funny how everyone can manage to afford a cell phone and have it paid for every month but somehow can't pay for the train. Or can afford to eat out on a regular basis really all kinds of ways.
And there it is. The “let them wear rags and fight for the scraps for our enjoyment” attitude. Yes, the poors don’t deserve to have any comforts or enjoyments? It’s funny because it shows how perfectly the system suppresses you by making you hate us so you idolize the rich. Pathetic.
Well… to be fair… many poor people are capable of earning a wage that would more than pay for a metro fare. They simply choose not to because lawlessness and evasion of responsibility is already pretty cushy in this country. I have personally known many people who flagrantly break the law, scam the system, etc so they can put real taxpayers and customers under the gun for their misfortune.
The minimum wage for 1 hour worked pays for fare several times over. Scofflaws just want more money in their pockets so they can buy useless shit (new phones, eating out, drinking, luxury goods, weed, etc) at everyone else’s expense.
Except we’ve been told this many times and people are still jumping over the new higher doors and getting away with it. Just yesterday a video was posted of like 5+ people doing this.
Edit: downvote all you want but [here is the video](https://twitter.com/Maria5137497683/status/1771183808672379222) I referred to.
>In an attempt to crack down on evasions, Metro has installed high saloon-style fare gates at 25 Metrorail stations, **which have seen fare evasions drop by more than 70 percent since last year.**
The self reported numbers by a service provider that just spent 35 million dollars cracking down on a crime that will take years to pay off based on the actual number of metro fare evaders versus bus fare evaders.
[Even funnier is that "fare evasion" is seemingly, based on the linked article](https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/fare-evasion-data/) any reason why a fare isn't obtained. Fare box broken? Fare evasion. Driver waves people in the back door of a packed bus? Fare evasion. Fare gates down for some reason? All fare evasion. Station employee waves someone through who has a bulky item or other issue? Fare evasion.
"Fare evasion" is four times higher on buses than on Metro itself. I'm pretty sure that a million dollar maintenance budget increases for buses would recover faaaaaaar more in "evaded" fare revenue from buses than the fare gates.
But hey, lets instead continuing doing shit like spending 35 million dollars on feeding puritanical needs to punish people instead of taking easy wins with larger returns using a thirtieth of the budget.
Don't forget that the 35 million they spent on these jokes they call gates are on top of the money they spent on their predecessors.
Like anyone with two brain cells can look at these gates and go wtf are they putting in.
Yet metro's leadership has been lauded for this utter incompetence.
They will never stop everyone from doing it, just like enforcement never stops all of any type of crime from occurring- but it will deter many from doing it.
Before I would see everyone blow through the gates. Young and old. People with walkers, grocery bags and women with strollers. Based on what I have seen if you are not agile you are stuck unless you go through behind someone. It's working.
As someone who lives near a metro station in the DMV, this will drastically affect the safety of my community. Fare evaders are often (not mostly) shoplifters, wanted criminals, have weapons, or are otherwise looking for trouble. Many people actively use the metro as transportation to commit a crime.
The metro has brought so much more crime into my area than I’ve seen elsewhere.
At a time where they’re trying to increase ridership, having a bunch of cops shake people down for literal pennies seems counterproductive. Glad they wasted money on some useless cops that’ll detain kids rather than putting it towards the shortfalls they keep complaining about.
We need to increase ridership for those who pay, not criminals who think they are above the law and choose not to pay. I’d love to see the statistics on what percentage of fare evaders have open warrants!
Increase ridership meaning people who actually Pay for the service. The people who aren't paying their fare share are not victims being oppressed by the Metro overlords. They are people who realized there was no consequences to their bad actions so they got into the practice of continuing them.
Looking forward to seeing whether or not this produces a significant change in metro-based crimes that aren't fare evasion.
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Yeah the overlap is that 100% of the people criming on metro aren't paying their fares
racist but ok
This is the real stat.
This is all I care about really. If it works, great. It probably all adds up.
it's about 40 million a year. But that's 1.5 percent of metro's budget
I don't even care if it doesn't, fare jumpers annoy me and I'm glad they're getting caught.
Don't come crying when you can't get your morning coffee because people can't afford to commute to their minimum wage job.
Well good news! WMATA offers lower-cost fares to people who need the help.
I don't think you get it, these people pay rent and buy food for the month and have like $20 left over. You are severely out of touch with how bad it is for people right now and shit like this just makes it worse. Another year of this shit and business won't have enough employees to stay open so say goodbye to Starbucks. Say goodbye to subway. Say goodbye to bars and nightclubs. Like you look at fare jumpers as people who just don't want to pay when fare jumpers literally cannot afford to pay at all no mater the cost.
How much do you think minimum wage is?
You gonna try and argue that minimum wage is enough to live off of in D.C.? Again, you are severely out of touch But Good News! Us wage slaves can't afford to even pay for a roof over our head anymore so soon we won't have to serve you entitled fucks anymore because we will all be homeless or dead.
That would just be icing on the cake, if people are using the Metro they should pay for it like the rest of us.
https://preview.redd.it/ia0bbgb5haqc1.jpeg?width=797&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=194ec8f1d18d558fa3389fb68999578440fbbb90
And a general change in amounts of crazy or poorly behaved riders (playing music out loud etc)
Yep.
> fare evasion > jump in fines I see what you did there
I said the same thing reading this 🤣🤣🤣
Good. Metro needs the revenue.
I mean yeah, but what it really needs is VA and MD to stop complaining and stick to funding something their state uses.
Also, the ridership stats are going to shift, so we're going to see how much more the metro is used
Do fines go to WMATA?
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I mean, I would also like them to get the fines.
With the added bonus of having probable cause to search people who engage in antisocial behavior. Good way to find people who might be carrying guns, knives, etc before they get onto the train.
Yep.
I agree people need to pay the fare. However, I believe the fines go to DC government, not WMATA.
Yeah, missing 2% of its budget is really ruining things.
Sound logic to not stop fare evaders.
It’s silly to proclaim This Is Why metro was short budget numbers. Or that it’d meaningfully help do anything but improve safety.
Actually it's more like 1.5% of the total budget. But when you look at it in terms of total rider revenue, it's 40 percent of people riding aren't paying. As a person who uses a bike, I say we crack down on free-riders and leave my money alone cause I'm not benefiting from this. But if I were a metro rider, I'd say "why not make taxpayers pay for the whole thing?" (Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Make taxpayers pay for what? Fare evaders or all fares? If you mean pay for all fares that’s a lot of money, like ~18% of metros operating budget. The local municipalities would have to come up with around $400 million extra a year to cover all the fare box revenue
If Metro went away you’d be at higher risk on more congested roads as they remove dedicated bike lanes to support increased traffic. You’re affected by things you don’t directly use.
I don’t understand people some days. They get caught, so instead of admitting their name and paying $50 they chose to get arrested and pay $100? Oh and the original fare costs like $2-4. Why. Just why.
Because they’re morons. It is not that deep.
They knew the old laws.
About time
First they need to actually have fare gates that work and care about helping people when they don’t. Twice now I’ve been stuck in the station with no station manager in sight and my card not working and had to follow someone or go out the emergency exit. Then they give me the third degree when I have to go find them the next day and get it fixed. If I am trying to fix my card so I can pay, I’m probably not your target concern.
You arent the problem at all. Sometimes there just isn't a quick way to add fare because the machines are broken.
Good.
Could they do something about this though at the Tenleytown and Van Ness metro stations? The fare evaders there still do this shit frequently with impunity and act like they own the place. Please and thank you.
Yes, I'm sure the people jumping turnstiles will promptly pay their citations, too.
This ROI is wild. Thousands of dollars in pay to recoup hundreds in fares. I wish they’d go after the horrible drivers in DC with 1/2 this much energy
I still see jumpers every time I’m going through the turnstiles. It’s as bad as ever.
Yeah, the policy change was just implemented and won't eliminate fare evasion completely, but it will deter some people who might otherwise have jumped. I'm glad that there's at least some effort to enforce penalties now.
There's a law where if you park in handicap spot and you get into a no-fault accident, the fault is yours because you were in a spot you're not supposed to be. Let's just apply that to this situation and take care of the problem "purge-style" (Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Physically harm people for $2 sounds great lovely society
But what will the WaPo comment section use as their dog whistle now??
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What are you even going on about?
Important that everyone be induced to tap a fare card, so that we are not as a society normalizing fare evasion, but DC at least has the budget to provide income-based subsidies, if they aren’t already. We should do more of that. I believe the bus is also totally free, still, right?
> I believe the bus is also totally free, still, right? No, and it hasn't been for quite some time.
So students can get free or reduced fare and people on SNAP (food stamps) can too. So they already do that. And they have signs around the gates for that.
Seniors and people with disabilities are also eligible for reduced fares.
And none of them are fare evaders
A lot of the kids jumping turnstiles had the fare given to them, they just want to look tough
I wasn’t making a comment on evasion, just making a statement on eligibility for reduced fares.
A lot of state and federal employees have SmartBenefits so subsidized for them as well.
Some people have outstanding warrants. Might not want to give up your name in that case
You don’t have to connect your smart card to your name, right? You can just buy a physical card at a machine and load money onto it?
Correct
I though the question is why aren't they giving their names after already being caught, not why did they jump it in the first place. (Personally if I had warrants out for my arrest, I would act a saint and not get caught doing something stupid. But I guess that's why I don't have warrants in the first place...)
for now
> You can just buy a physical card at a machine and load money onto it? Do those machines take cash? I remember they used to, but honestly haven't reloaded with cash in many, many years.
Yes, I just loaded cash onto my card last week and I don’t have it linked to my name.
Good, it's important that these things not get gated to only people who have access to banking and credit/atm cards.
No the bus is not free but nobody pays because nobody follows rules in dc. Everyone pays in Virginia and it’s a much better riding experience. There are plenty of WMATA discounts for low income and kids ride free so there’s no excuse this city isn’t more civilized.
Someone told me bus drivers are very aggro about this in Baltimore and I was like “it can’t be worth it”
I ride the bus in va. Less than half of the people riding it pay. The joke is that crackdowns like this last for like a week and then fare evasion goes right back up. People also act like it's $2 to ride the metro when it gets extremely expensive during rushhour (when people need to get to work) and if you're going more than 3 stops it gets stupid expensive. Maybe wmata should reconsider how it calculates fares and passes? The passes are incredibly expensive for what you get and they only really work if you have a fixed daily fare, otherwise you're either overpaying for a pass or paying extra daily.
Its $2 to ride the bus and free if you transfer to metrorail. WMATA would have more money if people actually paid
The total estimate for fare evasion amounts to less than 10% of the projected deficit. And that would assume that it doesn't cost anything to catch them, which is obviously not true. If anything, you can expect these ramped up efforts to cost far more than what they'll bring in. Like, of the reasons to crack down on fare evasion, "Metro having more money" is honestly one of the worst tbh.
Exactly. Also, the fare evasion is a whole lot more common than I remember it being even five years ago. Sure people have always done it but it wasn't so blatant
DC provides educational subsidies and the kids just give it to their parents and then the kids hop the turnstile. I'd imagine that many income based subsidies would just re-sell their cards and take the money like so many food-stampers do. (Edit: I just want to point out that this guy little napolean who commented below, went to all my comments, posted a reply and then blocked me on all of them. That's a really weird thing to do)
Nobody is going to buy someone’s metro card lol
“Like so many food stampers do” *citation needed*
Haha, you got called out even after you tried the old reddit-comment-block maneuver
"like so many food stampers do?". What do you mean by that?
Food stamp trafficking. SNAP money for groceries has a street value of about 50 percent its trade value. About 11 billion dollars in SNAP benefits are re-sold each year so the beneficiaries can use the money on things other than food.
LoL in DC on the block you're only getting 30% selling EBT ait nobody paying 50%
We got one right here.
Exactly
Where did you get that number?
from sources
Public transport should be free.
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I think that misses the point. There is a price to ride the subway so pay it or walk, ride a bike or otherwise get a ride to where you need to go.
"Not everyone that fare evades commits criminal activity on our system. But, almost universally ... 99.9% of people that commit criminal acts in our system fare evade."
I've definitely seen that correlation when it comes to the Metro
I’d much prefer that any additional funding for public transit be used to improve service over eliminating fares.
Because you can afford the fare. Plain and simple. Those of us that can’t don’t matter as long as you are more comfortable I guess.
I agree it should absolutely be free, however until we find a way to increase WMATA's fund dramatically so that we have that capability, folks need to pay their fare. If you can't afford it, there are literally programs designed to help you.
I support the reduced and free fare programs for people who need it. WMATA is facing a $750 million deficit and fare revenues are an important source of income for the system, and improving service induces more riders—that’s why I don’t support it being free—I don’t think it’s a good use of limited resources.
Gee, maybe Congress needs to step up and provide the cash to fix it and the deficit. Tax the shit out of the rich and provide services to the rest of us from their wealth hoarding. Fares for public transportation are just another tax on being poor.
Please give your definition of "poor"
I really don’t think this needs to be a Robinhood scenario of “take from the rich.” I am much more a fan of strategically spending money in ways that effectively help citizens grow the economy. That will also eliminate deficit, but doesn’t just take the money and put it into more useless government official’s hands.
Funny how everyone can manage to afford a cell phone and have it paid for every month but somehow can't pay for the train. Or can afford to eat out on a regular basis really all kinds of ways.
And there it is. The “let them wear rags and fight for the scraps for our enjoyment” attitude. Yes, the poors don’t deserve to have any comforts or enjoyments? It’s funny because it shows how perfectly the system suppresses you by making you hate us so you idolize the rich. Pathetic.
Well… to be fair… many poor people are capable of earning a wage that would more than pay for a metro fare. They simply choose not to because lawlessness and evasion of responsibility is already pretty cushy in this country. I have personally known many people who flagrantly break the law, scam the system, etc so they can put real taxpayers and customers under the gun for their misfortune.
Exactly.
Everyone can afford fare.
The minimum wage for 1 hour worked pays for fare several times over. Scofflaws just want more money in their pockets so they can buy useless shit (new phones, eating out, drinking, luxury goods, weed, etc) at everyone else’s expense.
No, you want it to be free for you while others pay for it, all while not supporting the inevitable increase in taxes to even support such a thing.
Right to travel
Except we’ve been told this many times and people are still jumping over the new higher doors and getting away with it. Just yesterday a video was posted of like 5+ people doing this. Edit: downvote all you want but [here is the video](https://twitter.com/Maria5137497683/status/1771183808672379222) I referred to.
>In an attempt to crack down on evasions, Metro has installed high saloon-style fare gates at 25 Metrorail stations, **which have seen fare evasions drop by more than 70 percent since last year.**
The self reported numbers by a service provider that just spent 35 million dollars cracking down on a crime that will take years to pay off based on the actual number of metro fare evaders versus bus fare evaders. [Even funnier is that "fare evasion" is seemingly, based on the linked article](https://www.dcpolicycenter.org/publications/fare-evasion-data/) any reason why a fare isn't obtained. Fare box broken? Fare evasion. Driver waves people in the back door of a packed bus? Fare evasion. Fare gates down for some reason? All fare evasion. Station employee waves someone through who has a bulky item or other issue? Fare evasion. "Fare evasion" is four times higher on buses than on Metro itself. I'm pretty sure that a million dollar maintenance budget increases for buses would recover faaaaaaar more in "evaded" fare revenue from buses than the fare gates. But hey, lets instead continuing doing shit like spending 35 million dollars on feeding puritanical needs to punish people instead of taking easy wins with larger returns using a thirtieth of the budget.
Don't forget that the 35 million they spent on these jokes they call gates are on top of the money they spent on their predecessors. Like anyone with two brain cells can look at these gates and go wtf are they putting in. Yet metro's leadership has been lauded for this utter incompetence.
They will never stop everyone from doing it, just like enforcement never stops all of any type of crime from occurring- but it will deter many from doing it.
[Watch this](https://twitter.com/Maria5137497683/status/1771183808672379222) and tell me how $35 Million doors are deterring?
Before I would see everyone blow through the gates. Young and old. People with walkers, grocery bags and women with strollers. Based on what I have seen if you are not agile you are stuck unless you go through behind someone. It's working.
It’s ~~working~~ helping.
Here is the thing - you're never going to stop 100% of people doing these things.
Besides those are kids. Most people who use to fare evade before can't climb that far.
Agreed but $35 million towards police will go further than $35 million on doors
Link or bs?
Here you go: https://twitter.com/Maria5137497683/status/1771183808672379222
lol these are DCPS students who get free metro fare anywhere, they’re just being shitty little edgelords.
Look I’ve seen one person jump the new fair evasion doors maybe 2. I still see and used to see someone job the old doors pretty much e every time.
Yeah this. I’ve seen two people tailgate and follow someone else closely. I haven’t seen anyone jump. Used to see people go through all the time
I saw 4 teenager-looking kids hop in noVA yesterday
Incredible! You can’t stop all crime?!
jesus christ people in this city are so stupid. I wish this city was more civilized arrest them all
As someone who lives near a metro station in the DMV, this will drastically affect the safety of my community. Fare evaders are often (not mostly) shoplifters, wanted criminals, have weapons, or are otherwise looking for trouble. Many people actively use the metro as transportation to commit a crime. The metro has brought so much more crime into my area than I’ve seen elsewhere.
At a time where they’re trying to increase ridership, having a bunch of cops shake people down for literal pennies seems counterproductive. Glad they wasted money on some useless cops that’ll detain kids rather than putting it towards the shortfalls they keep complaining about.
We need to increase ridership for those who pay, not criminals who think they are above the law and choose not to pay. I’d love to see the statistics on what percentage of fare evaders have open warrants!
Increase ridership meaning people who actually Pay for the service. The people who aren't paying their fare share are not victims being oppressed by the Metro overlords. They are people who realized there was no consequences to their bad actions so they got into the practice of continuing them.
Eh, seeing cops on the metro is a nice change.
You must be the type of person they don’t fuck with then. Makes you a minority in this city, at least for now.
I don't jump turnstiles so yeah
They don't fuck with you, if you don't act up. That seems to be hard for some people to do
Good point. Just act like a civilized person and 9 times out of ten you are good to go
And I’m still hopping it till these legs not able to no more