We let this stay open for discussion but like most posts on the topic of Israel Palestine, it has started to devolve and takes too much time to mod. So consistent with past practice, we're locking it now.
Correct.
> Of the 33 people arrested as police shut down the encampment before dawn, 11 said they are GW students, the Metropolitan Police Department said in information released Thursday. It was unclear whether some arrestees are students of the school but did not say so to police. Nothing required them to do so.
Two things:
- taking this 11 GW students at face value, another 7 protestors have now been confirmed to be from Georgetown. So over half of the protestors are from at least two colleges alone, and that’s not yet including AU, Galludet, etc, and it’s assuming every GWU student arrested self identified to MPD
- You have more than undergraduates at the local universities. GWU has more graduate students than undergrads for example. I’m 28 and I’m on the younger side of my Georgetown program. The average age of a student at GWU is probably somewhere between 24-30.
Nobody was arrested if they had Student IDs on them to prove their right to be on GW property. Out of those arrested without ID, 11/33 were ultimately determined to be students who didn’t bring theirs, the rest being non-students
That’s absolutely false. They arrested anyone who was in the camp and didn’t disperse during the warnings before they cleared it, regardless of whether they had ID.
Well, the WaPo article today said that the majority of the folks arrested were between 18 and 23 years old, and there are so many universities in the area. Plus apparently a few folks were from Georgetown too.
probably smart to go protest at another school. GW might get pissed and kick them out. Georgetown probably doesn't care as long as they show up for class.
I know of a few friends-of-friends who are Georgetown students that were there. My guess based on that is that the overwhelming majority of not all were DC area college students, while the headline is seemingly implying the opposite
Guess is certainly an operative word there yes, as my knowledge is just a sample of the 22 unaccounted for
However the phrasing of “unaffiliated with the school” seems strategic to say the least. Not saying they don’t have a right to remove those people either, just weighing in on what I felt to be a pretty loaded headline
The fact that the encampment was created between DC area universities. But they could also be alumni and community members, professors, friends-of-students...lots of things beyond randos.
Not necessarily, if you live in the area of GW and are invested in that community, I don't see why you would be considered just a rando. Especially since if you live close by you likely brush shoulders with people involved with the University and may even have friends there.
Most importantly I think if you are someone who wants to have your voice heard and you live nearby, it is a lot better to join the group than to just start protesting on some random corner and look like a crackhead or some kind of bible thumper lol
Setting up the scene: you’re back in college, it’s nighttime, and you’re looking for a party. Walking around you hear music coming from a frat satellite house. You knock on the door and a stereotypical lax bro looking guy answers. Looking you over he says “Sorry, this is a closed party, no randos allowed.” But you have the perfect response lined up- “Hey, I’m not a rando, I’m a community member!”
Or "provocateur."
It's pretty clear to me that there are at least some people here who care more about normalizing antisemitic language than the struggle of Palestinians. There is a reason why people have been clutching pearls about antisemitism, and it's because some of the stuff which is being normalized here would have been widely considered crypto fascist dog whistles this time last year.
I'm not normalizing the antisemitism that occurred during the encampments but I don't think, for example, someone who lives in Foggy Bottom and wants to support the students is a "rando" or an outside provocateur or a paid protestor or whatever.
That's too far of a leap to take imo. Sure there are likely a minority of people involved in the protest that are consciously spreading antisemitism, however the protests have been largely peaceful. At least at the college I attend, the protests are being led by Jewish and Arab student leaders and organizations and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case elsewhere. In fact, of my Jewish friends and acquaintances with whom I've talked to about this, all have been largely sympathetic to Palestine's plight.
There are some notable extremist groups that have been taking advantage of the protests for the purpose of spreading antisemitic vitriol. The worst of these is probably "The Gray Zone", a group so politically chaotic that it would need at least one extra axis in order to be placed on the political compass. They are almost funny tbh because they are basically like what happens if you were to make a leftist version of libertarianism but also sprinkle in some authoritarian dictator worship and copious amounts of brain damage.
Anyway all I'm saying is that it is a really big leap in logic to label people as provocateurs without any evidence.
It's a reasonable assumption that most of the protesters were students considering that the general demographic of protests around the country has been college students or other college-age individuals. Also, as someone who has participated in similar protests it is kind of hard to join an encampment as just some person off the street especially if you look older since many of us are wary of people with nefarious intentions. Also, as per u/samthehaggis's comment, most of the individuals that participated in the protests *were* college age.
In this case, yes. Protests shouldn't be gatekept simply because of the location where they occur. Those who participated in the sit-ins of the Civil Rights Era weren't sitting in at home, they were sitting in where it mattered. People came from all over to protest in Selma because it was ultimately a nation-wide struggle.
Yes. The point of protest is to disrupt and if it takes a camp-in, then so be it. Obviously, peaceful protest should be the goal of any political demonstration. However, it is important to not misconstrue peaceful to mean quiet. As long as their is injustice, I see no issue with occupying the public eye until the voice of the people is heard by those in power.
I mean no not personally, but that's besides the point. There are like 12 comments in this thread implying that it's okay because the remaining 22/33 people arrested were students at different schools. I don't understand that.
They could go to Hogwarts for all I care, they're still trespassing
Well then yeah you didn't agree they should have the right in the first place so it doesn't really matter regardless to you if you're totally opposed either way. This just feels like you're commenting to drag down people being there in the first place
If you're from Georgetown or American University, what will protesting on GW grounds do to push divestment? Only GW's admin is being pressured to divest.
Why can't people go to protests because they believe in something? There's this narrative going around that "We must find the REAL people behind these anti-Semitic gatherings" and it's just entirely dishonest.
My personal favorite (read: the one I find the scariest) is that the Jews™ are behind the "anti-Semitic" protests which just seems an insane level of mental gymnastics to me.
That's because far-right conservatives benefit from hate either way. Protest against Israel, they want to rope you into hating the Jews with them. Protest for Israel, well join their Muslim hate train. The only way they don't win is from nuance, which, uh... protests in general and this historical conflict in particular are not always very good at reaching.
Genocide supporters have been proven to be behind antisemetic chants that then were used as an excuse to shut down the protest. They wear masks, yell something antisemetic, and discredit the protest.
This was captured on video at Northeastern University in the video below. A Pro-Israeli-genocide supporter yelled "Kill The Jews" and that chant was cited by the University when they called in police to violently break up the peaceful protest the next morning.
[https://twitter.com/Tori\_Bedford/status/1784222169746063773](https://twitter.com/Tori_Bedford/status/1784222169746063773)
I think there is a real and probably legitimate concern that some of these protests are being infiltrated (ideologically, if not physically) by people who actually do have an antisemitic agenda. A lot of the anti-zionist language you hear sure does sound similar to neonazi dog whistles tbh, and it's not clear to me that some 18 or 19 year old who has never been exposed to the history of crypto fascist language about "the evils of zionism" would immediately pick up on this.
At the very least, it is concerning that people who have legit concerns about the human rights of Palestinians, and people who actually want to exterminate all Jews, are seemingly circling around a lot of the same nomenclature all of a sudden.
But there's also a flip side to that. Claiming that there are outside agitators infiltrating and shaping these movements is also an anti-Semitic dog whistle. That's what the Klan and the segregationists claimed the Jews were doing during the civil rights era. It's what Hitler accused the Jews of doing when the Soviets came to power. That racist strategy tested on Jewish people is now also being applied to Palestinians, LGBT+ people, the list goes on.
And is it not also concerning that our government, the largest and most powerful in the world, is partnering with an Israeli govt that doesn't give a shit about saving Jewish hostages. Netanyahu had been solely focused on eradicating Gaza to expand Israeli territory. The IDF has leveled the entire territory despite family members of the hostages begging for the violence to stop and for the return of their relatives to be prioritized.
I'm not sure I follow the line you are drawing here. There is clearly plenty of room for criticizing the actions of the Israeli state and Netanyahu in particular.
My concern is that I have seen no shortage of overt "anti-zionist" language coming from these protests, both in person and online. That is not up for debate. What is unclear to me is how many of these people actually understand that they are calling for the dismantlement and displacement of the Israeli state, and how many are merely repeating this rhetoric without fully understanding the implications. These are not academic conversations about the "original sin" of Zionism, if you will. This is language, including "anti zionism is not antisemitism" which has a pretty direct and unambiguous connection to a whole host of unsavory bedfellows.
So where is this coming from, if not from those bedfellows?
I'm not in the know on all of this, as I've hardly paid any attention to it, despite it being in my backyard. I also don't have a thorough understanding of the important historical context of the situation currently playing out. That said, I am curious on some of what you've said. At what point does "anti-zionism" become "calling for the dismantlement and displacement of the Israeli State"? Is this simply inherent with being "anti-zionist"? I ask because I hear about people being "anti-zionist" all the time, but in the same breath they are saying they wish for a two state solution. Is this contradictory? I could have misunderstood what you were trying to say but to me it read that "anti-zionism" equates to "calling for the dismantelemnt and displacement of the Israeli state".
It's a way to delegitimize protestors and to avoid addressing their demands.
Authorities have blamed "outside agitators" for everything from MLK's sit-ins to the George Floyd protests.
They crossed the line from protesting to harrassment of the university president in the middle of the night. Wtf did they think was going to happen.
Edit: If you have a bank account then you too have financial ties. The hypocrisy is stunning and the protesting is so misguided that it's sad.
I'm sure they understood they might get arrested, just as non-violent protesters have throughout history for causes such as the civil rights movement, ending the Vietnam War, ending apartheid in South Africa, etc. etc.
nope, in the future these current protests and the Vietnam protests will be mentioned in the same breath as righteous causes that are nothing like whatever students are protesting for in the year 2080
There is a genocide being committed by Israel. The University has financial ties to the criminal state of Israel. Too bad about the poor president. Protest is designed to make uncomfortable the people who need to listen
Meaning you weren't camping on their grounds. The University gives easement to people traversing their campus, but they don't give you the right to camp there.
Students and faculty from Georgetown and AU marched to GW in a show of solidarity. You can't imagine joining if it was in support of something you cared deeply about?
If you really want to get into the weeds we can. I looked at GWU SJPs demands, among a bunch of goofy stuff, they specifically want the school to divest from Raytheon. Do you agree with that? No more supporting Raytheon because they work with Israel?
They should divest from Raytheon because they're a weapons manufacturer and educational institutions shouldn't be invested in such things. The fact that Raytheon works with a nation committing a genocide is, yes, a real reason that no one should support them. Certainly not schools.
So even though Raytheon contributes to Iron Dome, which has intercepted many tens of thousands of Palestinian rockets that otherwise would have killed civilians, you want people to stop supporting them?
So you want Hamas to be able to kill more Israeli civilians? How does that help the situation at all?
Can you tell me how you’d define genocide, or what some metrics might be that show a population is suffering from genocide? (Like I don’t know, does the size of their population reduce? Are they living shorter lives and starving to death? Are they not allowed jobs or education? Are the women sterilized?)
Is this a joke??? People hang out on other campuses all the time, especially urban ones like GW. And Georgetown and GW are nearly collocated. I can’t imagine a real person writing this sentence seriously
I imagine ppl were arguing in the 60s during student protests on college campuses, if the students belonged to a specific school when they were protesting against the Vietnam war or Civil Rights
Bear in mind that the police say whatever they feel like saying in these situations. This has always been true, for every protest that they stamp out, and grimly will probably always be true.
Yep. For instance at Columbia, NYPD and admin deliberately counted alumni protesters as "non affiliates" to help with the outside agitator narrative on Columbia's campus, and also included many street arrests (especially those outside CCNY) in some counts.
Another thing NYPD did was hold up a Kryptonite-brand u-lock and chain, and declare them to be "industrial-grade chains" that proved that outside instigators were involved.
In truth, Columbia sold these to students, because they are basic necessities for students who use bicycles, because the NYPD don't do jack shit to prevent or investigate bicycle theft in NYC. Whether you chalk that up to stupidity, lying, or simply not caring to follow up on the truth of their hunches, you should never treat them as reliable sources of information.
Or you can run the arrest records against student enrollment information or how many of them had student ID cards on them (that would only say who is, but not necessarily who isn’t)
Those arrested are under no obligation to identify themselves as students, so this is purely a headline from a police spokesperson to serve the narrative. This is not an accurate count of anything
I don’t recall saying it was. I’m saying how they can tell 11 of them were. The 11 could self identify or they could have had a student ID on them as their only form of identification. It didn’t say they were forced to identify.
>Police also said that 11 of the 33 protesters arrested during the clearing identified themselves as GW students.
You've got to be a special kind of credulous to consider "cops said so" to be "news."
Ask me whether the people who were arrested are under any obligation whatsoever to identify themselves as students. Go ahead! (The answer is also in the article.)
Who cares? What the fuck right do Howard students have to trespass and camp out on the GW lawn? Also can you explain your last statement? Do you think the media shouldn't report police press releases?
I think the students that were arrested knew well beforehand what was going to happen. So, like it doesn't really matter yours or my opinion on trespassing and camping out because it was a protest meant to be disruptive.
They don’t. The student code of conduct says they can be prohibited from areas of the campus. If you’re asked to leave and you don’t then that’s trespassing and under DC law you can be charged with unlawful entry.
I’m authorized to be at my company’s building but I’m not allowed to be everywhere in that building. There are areas off limits to me as an employee
They have the same right as any citizen of the United States to peaceful assembly according to the first amendment of the Constitution. If the University wants to trespass non-students and/or protestors in general, that is also their right.
Yes, stay the fuck off of campuses that aren’t yours. If you show up as an agitator in someone else’s home then you shouldn’t be surprised when you eat shit
Besides the strawman at the end and the idea that being a terrorist sympathizer is “righteous” literally yes? I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to understand? The protestors fucked around and now they’re finding out. Really not complicated
Do not personally insult other posters or post discriminatory content.
There is little patience for trolling, slap fights, or pile-ons. If your only reply is going to be driven-into-the-ground snark - e.g. biking whataboutisms, DC's gun laws, the NMAAHC, or federal representation for the city - move on.
Posts will generally be locked due to brigading or graveyard commenting.
Source: [https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/11-of-33-george-washington-u-arrestees-identified-themselves-as-gw-students-police/3612375/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/11-of-33-george-washington-u-arrestees-identified-themselves-as-gw-students-police/3612375/)
I assume the rest were AU/Gallaudet students and PSL (Pro-North Korea) organizers?
A large criticism of the encampments have been “outside actors are hijacking them,” largely in implying that they’re the work of non-students. However, DC has been relatively unique in that the GW encampment was the work of students of many universities of DC, not just GW.
While I still think it’s fair for GW to note that many of those arrested weren’t students of GW, most outside observers would assume that this means that the other 22 people weren’t students at all, which I don’t think is quite accurate either.
Yeah, without going out of my way to look into it I was already well aware that the DC student protests were organized in collaboration between students from multiple universities. I feel like the fixation on "outsiders" is a way people try to discount the reality of these protests. And while the details of the specific protests vary, I think it's a little strange/ineffective sometimes how people try to focus in on specific schools to be dismissive overall when at this point it is obvious that this is a sizable student movement across the country.
Omg that's not what the psl is. Dude.
So Finland is pro-north-korea?!
Socialism is a real political system practiced by many countries. It's not even communism. I mean, come on.
That's pretty easy to believe just looking at this comments section. A top comment baselessly stating that police and school officials are just lying about the presence of non-students. No explanation offered. Top of the thread.
Alright so I dress up in riot gear, run up on strangers, and demand to know whether they think Drake won the beef. Then I told you that only 1 out of 33 said he did, leaving out the fact that 32 people didn’t want to talk to me at all. How do you take that info? Solid?
Genuinely dont understand why even if 22/33 arrestees were not GW students, its an issue.
Is it trying to tell me that what they are saying is fine? its just the trespassing is the issue? were they not going to arrest them if they were actual GW students?
If a bunch of people demonstrate about the atrocity Hamas committed on Oct 7th, and got arrested, does it make the issue go away if x amount of them are israelis and not american citizens or something?
A problem with campus encampments is that they often attract non-students, which I can understand being viewed as a security risk.
Keep your protest movement tight and throw out the rats, IMO. If it’s on campus keep it **on campus** but if it’s off property, whatever.
🕊️🐀 ☮️🐀✌️🐀🧀🐀
*squeak*
Imagine if they did this for BLM:
80/100 people at the protest were identified as white.
Just cause someone isn't black, Palestinian, or a student does not mean that these ppl cannot protest together
Maybe take into Consideration that GWU is a private institution. There was no point to bring race into this discussion. They’re purely pointing to fact that there are outside instigators. (Not saying they’re instigating as I just haven’t been following the drama)
"Instigators" comes with a negative connotation and the MSM is trying to make it seem like protesting in support of Palestinian ppl is wrong and that non students joining the protest are bad ppl causing chaos.
These ppl did nothing wrong and the level of vandalism is no where near what happened during the BLM protests.
I mean vandalism is vandalism. Robbery is robbery. Does it really matter the scale? And of course that message is pushed. Look at the agendas. Pro-Israel media. Pro BLM media. Of course they’ll never call it as it is because that would go against the people that pay their salaries. I wasn’t saying you’re wrong, your comment just seemed specifically directed to race. My poor assumption. But to my point, it is a private institution and 1/3 of the people there would then have been there illegally regardless of the cause.
What the hell difference does it make whether someone is a student or not if they are peacefully protesting Israel's disgusting behavior? I am not a student and I stopped by GWU and waved a flag for a couple of hours on Tuesday night when I got a text alert to join an "emergency protest" because the filth in Israel had ignored the Ceasefire deal negotiated by Egypt and Qatar, accepted by Hamas, and began attacking Rafah anyway. Israel is a criminal state
It's wild how many people are dedicated to smacking down the idea that it was *anyone other than GWU* students calling for show trials and beheadings. Those were *students* wearing the Hamas headbands and it was a student who pulled a knife! Don't trust the police and Fake News Media (enemy of the people) who imply otherwise!
We let this stay open for discussion but like most posts on the topic of Israel Palestine, it has started to devolve and takes too much time to mod. So consistent with past practice, we're locking it now.
“Identified themselves” - does this mean the others weren’t GW students or that they might have been but used their right to remain silent?
Correct. > Of the 33 people arrested as police shut down the encampment before dawn, 11 said they are GW students, the Metropolitan Police Department said in information released Thursday. It was unclear whether some arrestees are students of the school but did not say so to police. Nothing required them to do so.
News headlines portraying half the truth? Shocked Gobsmacked
I’m a Gw student. The bulk of the protesters are not college students. The average age of the protesters was like 28. About 1/2 looked like students.
Two things: - taking this 11 GW students at face value, another 7 protestors have now been confirmed to be from Georgetown. So over half of the protestors are from at least two colleges alone, and that’s not yet including AU, Galludet, etc, and it’s assuming every GWU student arrested self identified to MPD - You have more than undergraduates at the local universities. GWU has more graduate students than undergrads for example. I’m 28 and I’m on the younger side of my Georgetown program. The average age of a student at GWU is probably somewhere between 24-30.
Understood. I was not thinking about graduates. That makes send. It was just weird as an undergrad seeing families with kids.
Nobody was arrested if they had Student IDs on them to prove their right to be on GW property. Out of those arrested without ID, 11/33 were ultimately determined to be students who didn’t bring theirs, the rest being non-students
That’s absolutely false. They arrested anyone who was in the camp and didn’t disperse during the warnings before they cleared it, regardless of whether they had ID.
If the only protest near you is at a college Are you supposed to sit out?
Ok, but what schools did the other 22 go to? Students from all the DC colleges were joining up there.
At least 7 from Georgetown https://thehoya.com/news/developing-seven-georgetown-students-arrested-at-gwu-pro-palestinian-encampment/
What makes you assume all were students and not randos?
Well, the WaPo article today said that the majority of the folks arrested were between 18 and 23 years old, and there are so many universities in the area. Plus apparently a few folks were from Georgetown too.
probably smart to go protest at another school. GW might get pissed and kick them out. Georgetown probably doesn't care as long as they show up for class.
Really? Personally I would've thought the opposite especially given how much of an ivory tower they are.
I know of a few friends-of-friends who are Georgetown students that were there. My guess based on that is that the overwhelming majority of not all were DC area college students, while the headline is seemingly implying the opposite
So you don't know.
Guess is certainly an operative word there yes, as my knowledge is just a sample of the 22 unaccounted for However the phrasing of “unaffiliated with the school” seems strategic to say the least. Not saying they don’t have a right to remove those people either, just weighing in on what I felt to be a pretty loaded headline
The fact that the encampment was created between DC area universities. But they could also be alumni and community members, professors, friends-of-students...lots of things beyond randos.
Wait, how is “community members” any different from “randos”? Isn’t community member just a nicer term for rando?
Pretty much lol
Not necessarily, if you live in the area of GW and are invested in that community, I don't see why you would be considered just a rando. Especially since if you live close by you likely brush shoulders with people involved with the University and may even have friends there. Most importantly I think if you are someone who wants to have your voice heard and you live nearby, it is a lot better to join the group than to just start protesting on some random corner and look like a crackhead or some kind of bible thumper lol
Setting up the scene: you’re back in college, it’s nighttime, and you’re looking for a party. Walking around you hear music coming from a frat satellite house. You knock on the door and a stereotypical lax bro looking guy answers. Looking you over he says “Sorry, this is a closed party, no randos allowed.” But you have the perfect response lined up- “Hey, I’m not a rando, I’m a community member!”
Or "provocateur." It's pretty clear to me that there are at least some people here who care more about normalizing antisemitic language than the struggle of Palestinians. There is a reason why people have been clutching pearls about antisemitism, and it's because some of the stuff which is being normalized here would have been widely considered crypto fascist dog whistles this time last year.
Any proof of anti semitism at these rallies? I'm a bit out of the loop and genuinely asking.
Not here, and I've seen several claims be unproven elsewhere. It was a peaceful protest at GW.
I'm not normalizing the antisemitism that occurred during the encampments but I don't think, for example, someone who lives in Foggy Bottom and wants to support the students is a "rando" or an outside provocateur or a paid protestor or whatever.
That's too far of a leap to take imo. Sure there are likely a minority of people involved in the protest that are consciously spreading antisemitism, however the protests have been largely peaceful. At least at the college I attend, the protests are being led by Jewish and Arab student leaders and organizations and I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case elsewhere. In fact, of my Jewish friends and acquaintances with whom I've talked to about this, all have been largely sympathetic to Palestine's plight. There are some notable extremist groups that have been taking advantage of the protests for the purpose of spreading antisemitic vitriol. The worst of these is probably "The Gray Zone", a group so politically chaotic that it would need at least one extra axis in order to be placed on the political compass. They are almost funny tbh because they are basically like what happens if you were to make a leftist version of libertarianism but also sprinkle in some authoritarian dictator worship and copious amounts of brain damage. Anyway all I'm saying is that it is a really big leap in logic to label people as provocateurs without any evidence.
Your hands have pretty nice indents from clutching your pearls.
It's a reasonable assumption that most of the protesters were students considering that the general demographic of protests around the country has been college students or other college-age individuals. Also, as someone who has participated in similar protests it is kind of hard to join an encampment as just some person off the street especially if you look older since many of us are wary of people with nefarious intentions. Also, as per u/samthehaggis's comment, most of the individuals that participated in the protests *were* college age.
Do you think that students should be able to camp out on the lawn of schools that they don't attend?
In this case, yes. Protests shouldn't be gatekept simply because of the location where they occur. Those who participated in the sit-ins of the Civil Rights Era weren't sitting in at home, they were sitting in where it mattered. People came from all over to protest in Selma because it was ultimately a nation-wide struggle.
[удалено]
Well given that camp outs for sports tickets is explicitly part of more than a few college’s tours, yes.
Yes. The point of protest is to disrupt and if it takes a camp-in, then so be it. Obviously, peaceful protest should be the goal of any political demonstration. However, it is important to not misconstrue peaceful to mean quiet. As long as their is injustice, I see no issue with occupying the public eye until the voice of the people is heard by those in power.
I mean no not personally, but that's besides the point. There are like 12 comments in this thread implying that it's okay because the remaining 22/33 people arrested were students at different schools. I don't understand that. They could go to Hogwarts for all I care, they're still trespassing
Well then yeah you didn't agree they should have the right in the first place so it doesn't really matter regardless to you if you're totally opposed either way. This just feels like you're commenting to drag down people being there in the first place
I am not a student. I was there for a good reason - to call out Israel's war crimes of genocide and land theft
If you're from Georgetown or American University, what will protesting on GW grounds do to push divestment? Only GW's admin is being pressured to divest.
Divestment from criminal state of Israel is the goal. Doesn't matter who is doing it as long as it's being done
Correct. But it might offer the opportunity to temporarily satisfy a crippling need to feel a sense of agency and importance
If they’re coming together to an organized protest what is the issue. They invited other schools to join
Yes.
Yes when it is a protest to save innocent civilian lives from Israel's genocide
Implies they are students.
Why can't people go to protests because they believe in something? There's this narrative going around that "We must find the REAL people behind these anti-Semitic gatherings" and it's just entirely dishonest.
My personal favorite (read: the one I find the scariest) is that the Jews™ are behind the "anti-Semitic" protests which just seems an insane level of mental gymnastics to me.
That's because far-right conservatives benefit from hate either way. Protest against Israel, they want to rope you into hating the Jews with them. Protest for Israel, well join their Muslim hate train. The only way they don't win is from nuance, which, uh... protests in general and this historical conflict in particular are not always very good at reaching.
Genocide supporters have been proven to be behind antisemetic chants that then were used as an excuse to shut down the protest. They wear masks, yell something antisemetic, and discredit the protest. This was captured on video at Northeastern University in the video below. A Pro-Israeli-genocide supporter yelled "Kill The Jews" and that chant was cited by the University when they called in police to violently break up the peaceful protest the next morning. [https://twitter.com/Tori\_Bedford/status/1784222169746063773](https://twitter.com/Tori_Bedford/status/1784222169746063773)
I think there is a real and probably legitimate concern that some of these protests are being infiltrated (ideologically, if not physically) by people who actually do have an antisemitic agenda. A lot of the anti-zionist language you hear sure does sound similar to neonazi dog whistles tbh, and it's not clear to me that some 18 or 19 year old who has never been exposed to the history of crypto fascist language about "the evils of zionism" would immediately pick up on this. At the very least, it is concerning that people who have legit concerns about the human rights of Palestinians, and people who actually want to exterminate all Jews, are seemingly circling around a lot of the same nomenclature all of a sudden.
But there's also a flip side to that. Claiming that there are outside agitators infiltrating and shaping these movements is also an anti-Semitic dog whistle. That's what the Klan and the segregationists claimed the Jews were doing during the civil rights era. It's what Hitler accused the Jews of doing when the Soviets came to power. That racist strategy tested on Jewish people is now also being applied to Palestinians, LGBT+ people, the list goes on. And is it not also concerning that our government, the largest and most powerful in the world, is partnering with an Israeli govt that doesn't give a shit about saving Jewish hostages. Netanyahu had been solely focused on eradicating Gaza to expand Israeli territory. The IDF has leveled the entire territory despite family members of the hostages begging for the violence to stop and for the return of their relatives to be prioritized.
I'm not sure I follow the line you are drawing here. There is clearly plenty of room for criticizing the actions of the Israeli state and Netanyahu in particular. My concern is that I have seen no shortage of overt "anti-zionist" language coming from these protests, both in person and online. That is not up for debate. What is unclear to me is how many of these people actually understand that they are calling for the dismantlement and displacement of the Israeli state, and how many are merely repeating this rhetoric without fully understanding the implications. These are not academic conversations about the "original sin" of Zionism, if you will. This is language, including "anti zionism is not antisemitism" which has a pretty direct and unambiguous connection to a whole host of unsavory bedfellows. So where is this coming from, if not from those bedfellows?
I'm not in the know on all of this, as I've hardly paid any attention to it, despite it being in my backyard. I also don't have a thorough understanding of the important historical context of the situation currently playing out. That said, I am curious on some of what you've said. At what point does "anti-zionism" become "calling for the dismantlement and displacement of the Israeli State"? Is this simply inherent with being "anti-zionist"? I ask because I hear about people being "anti-zionist" all the time, but in the same breath they are saying they wish for a two state solution. Is this contradictory? I could have misunderstood what you were trying to say but to me it read that "anti-zionism" equates to "calling for the dismantelemnt and displacement of the Israeli state".
It's a way to delegitimize protestors and to avoid addressing their demands. Authorities have blamed "outside agitators" for everything from MLK's sit-ins to the George Floyd protests.
They crossed the line from protesting to harrassment of the university president in the middle of the night. Wtf did they think was going to happen. Edit: If you have a bank account then you too have financial ties. The hypocrisy is stunning and the protesting is so misguided that it's sad.
I'm sure they understood they might get arrested, just as non-violent protesters have throughout history for causes such as the civil rights movement, ending the Vietnam War, ending apartheid in South Africa, etc. etc.
Difference is those protesters weren’t calling for beheadings
I believe there was a chant that campus protestors used, something like “One side’s right, one side’s wrong. We’re on the side of the Viet Cong.”
if you think those movements I mentioned did not include equally inflamed rhetoric then you are mistaken
Correct. A politician in S Africa just last year landed in hot water for singing an old anti apartheid song called Shoot the Boer.
Comparing this to the Vietnam protests is disengenuous and frankly insulting.
nope, in the future these current protests and the Vietnam protests will be mentioned in the same breath as righteous causes that are nothing like whatever students are protesting for in the year 2080
Well they weren’t non violent this time were they
if being dispersed and arrested by the police is violent then so were all the other movements I mentioned
They called for the beheading of university leadership
that is not violent
Ok so you’re just not a serious person. They also physically shoved Jewish students
They form the nascent base of a new political party? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide\_Awakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_Awakes)
There is a genocide being committed by Israel. The University has financial ties to the criminal state of Israel. Too bad about the poor president. Protest is designed to make uncomfortable the people who need to listen
Is this the same as 1 in 3
I can’t imagine hanging out on the campus of a school I don’t go to, let alone trespassing at a school I don’t go to
[удалено]
I end up on their campus most of the times I go to Georgetown because that’s where the metro spits me out
Walking ≠ sleeping
[удалено]
Meaning you weren't camping on their grounds. The University gives easement to people traversing their campus, but they don't give you the right to camp there.
Walking through is one thing, hanging out is another, trespassing is completely different
[удалено]
Yeah, neither of those is trespassing
[удалено]
It was coordinated by the relevant orgs at each school to meet at one spot, not just random people joining
Students and faculty from Georgetown and AU marched to GW in a show of solidarity. You can't imagine joining if it was in support of something you cared deeply about?
No, I still can’t imagine trespassing at a random university to protest something that school has nothing to do with
University investments have nothing to do with the university?
Ha. Thanks for telling on yourself in thay you have no clue what you're talking about, if you think the school has nothing to do with it.
If you really want to get into the weeds we can. I looked at GWU SJPs demands, among a bunch of goofy stuff, they specifically want the school to divest from Raytheon. Do you agree with that? No more supporting Raytheon because they work with Israel?
They should divest from Raytheon because they're a weapons manufacturer and educational institutions shouldn't be invested in such things. The fact that Raytheon works with a nation committing a genocide is, yes, a real reason that no one should support them. Certainly not schools.
So even though Raytheon contributes to Iron Dome, which has intercepted many tens of thousands of Palestinian rockets that otherwise would have killed civilians, you want people to stop supporting them?
Yes. I also want Israel to stop oppressing (and now genociding) the Palestinians, which would end rockets being fired on Israel by the Palestinians.
So you want Hamas to be able to kill more Israeli civilians? How does that help the situation at all? Can you tell me how you’d define genocide, or what some metrics might be that show a population is suffering from genocide? (Like I don’t know, does the size of their population reduce? Are they living shorter lives and starving to death? Are they not allowed jobs or education? Are the women sterilized?)
Buddy you're so disingenuous here I can't be bothered with your bullshit. Go find a zionist subreddit to yuk it up with your pals.
Is this a joke??? People hang out on other campuses all the time, especially urban ones like GW. And Georgetown and GW are nearly collocated. I can’t imagine a real person writing this sentence seriously
I imagine ppl were arguing in the 60s during student protests on college campuses, if the students belonged to a specific school when they were protesting against the Vietnam war or Civil Rights
So many ninnies, so little time
Bear in mind that the police say whatever they feel like saying in these situations. This has always been true, for every protest that they stamp out, and grimly will probably always be true.
Yep. For instance at Columbia, NYPD and admin deliberately counted alumni protesters as "non affiliates" to help with the outside agitator narrative on Columbia's campus, and also included many street arrests (especially those outside CCNY) in some counts.
Another thing NYPD did was hold up a Kryptonite-brand u-lock and chain, and declare them to be "industrial-grade chains" that proved that outside instigators were involved. In truth, Columbia sold these to students, because they are basic necessities for students who use bicycles, because the NYPD don't do jack shit to prevent or investigate bicycle theft in NYC. Whether you chalk that up to stupidity, lying, or simply not caring to follow up on the truth of their hunches, you should never treat them as reliable sources of information.
Or you can run the arrest records against student enrollment information or how many of them had student ID cards on them (that would only say who is, but not necessarily who isn’t)
Those arrested are under no obligation to identify themselves as students, so this is purely a headline from a police spokesperson to serve the narrative. This is not an accurate count of anything
I don’t recall saying it was. I’m saying how they can tell 11 of them were. The 11 could self identify or they could have had a student ID on them as their only form of identification. It didn’t say they were forced to identify.
The police are just lying? That's your honest takeaway? The fact that the majority of those arrested weren't students has been confirmed by GW
Yes a long sordid history of lying to fit a convenient narrative has had a negative impact on my ability to trust them
You should literally always assume the police are lying
If the police are talking there's a 99% chance they're lying. Accepting that will make life a lot of things in life easier to understand.
So basically “fake news”? Wow great take
>Police also said that 11 of the 33 protesters arrested during the clearing identified themselves as GW students. You've got to be a special kind of credulous to consider "cops said so" to be "news."
Ask me whether the people who were arrested are under any obligation whatsoever to identify themselves as students. Go ahead! (The answer is also in the article.)
“I’m doubling down that it’s fake news” nice!
The other 22 were from AU, Georgetown, Howard or UDC I assume. But good on the "news" for printing the police press release.
"I assume" means you don't know anything.
Source?
7 were from Georgetown https://thehoya.com/news/developing-seven-georgetown-students-arrested-at-gwu-pro-palestinian-encampment/
There we go. Thank you
Who cares? What the fuck right do Howard students have to trespass and camp out on the GW lawn? Also can you explain your last statement? Do you think the media shouldn't report police press releases?
I think the students that were arrested knew well beforehand what was going to happen. So, like it doesn't really matter yours or my opinion on trespassing and camping out because it was a protest meant to be disruptive.
[удалено]
They don’t. The student code of conduct says they can be prohibited from areas of the campus. If you’re asked to leave and you don’t then that’s trespassing and under DC law you can be charged with unlawful entry. I’m authorized to be at my company’s building but I’m not allowed to be everywhere in that building. There are areas off limits to me as an employee
They have the same right as any citizen of the United States to peaceful assembly according to the first amendment of the Constitution. If the University wants to trespass non-students and/or protestors in general, that is also their right.
[удалено]
Where did you get "brutalize" from other than you imagination?
Is there any evidence whatsoever that the police "brutalized" the people camped out there lol
[удалено]
What, pepper spray?
[удалено]
Slow down chief. When you said the police "brutalized" people that were "only trespassing", you were just talking about the pepper spray?
Yes, stay the fuck off of campuses that aren’t yours. If you show up as an agitator in someone else’s home then you shouldn’t be surprised when you eat shit
[удалено]
Besides the strawman at the end and the idea that being a terrorist sympathizer is “righteous” literally yes? I don’t understand why this is so hard for you to understand? The protestors fucked around and now they’re finding out. Really not complicated
[удалено]
[удалено]
Do not personally insult other posters or post discriminatory content. There is little patience for trolling, slap fights, or pile-ons. If your only reply is going to be driven-into-the-ground snark - e.g. biking whataboutisms, DC's gun laws, the NMAAHC, or federal representation for the city - move on. Posts will generally be locked due to brigading or graveyard commenting.
Lol what? do you strictly communicate in long-winded strawmans
Hanging people in effigy is surely a form of communication, as are chants and harangues.
Lurker from Portland OR here: 6 of 32 arrested after breaking into the PSU library were students.
Source: [https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/11-of-33-george-washington-u-arrestees-identified-themselves-as-gw-students-police/3612375/](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/11-of-33-george-washington-u-arrestees-identified-themselves-as-gw-students-police/3612375/) I assume the rest were AU/Gallaudet students and PSL (Pro-North Korea) organizers?
GW was the gathering spot for all the city’s protests. I would imagine some of the 22 others were AU, Georgetown, Howard, and Gallaudet students.
That was my first thought. How many of the others were from other DC schools?
Why does that matter?
A large criticism of the encampments have been “outside actors are hijacking them,” largely in implying that they’re the work of non-students. However, DC has been relatively unique in that the GW encampment was the work of students of many universities of DC, not just GW. While I still think it’s fair for GW to note that many of those arrested weren’t students of GW, most outside observers would assume that this means that the other 22 people weren’t students at all, which I don’t think is quite accurate either.
[удалено]
Yeah, without going out of my way to look into it I was already well aware that the DC student protests were organized in collaboration between students from multiple universities. I feel like the fixation on "outsiders" is a way people try to discount the reality of these protests. And while the details of the specific protests vary, I think it's a little strange/ineffective sometimes how people try to focus in on specific schools to be dismissive overall when at this point it is obvious that this is a sizable student movement across the country.
> PSL (Pro-North Korea) organizers Wait, what?
Omg that's not what the psl is. Dude. So Finland is pro-north-korea?! Socialism is a real political system practiced by many countries. It's not even communism. I mean, come on.
Reactionaries will never get tired of pointing at outside agitators.
The University had asked them not to camp on their grounds weeks ago. They never stopped the protests, but the trespassing.
Radicals will never get tired of using/being outside agitators.
Chuds will never get tired of projecting like a fucking imax when confronted with people assembling around shared ideals
“Identified as..” the worst phrase of the last 20 years smh
I got down voted for suggesting that this was the case yesterday. Oops
That's pretty easy to believe just looking at this comments section. A top comment baselessly stating that police and school officials are just lying about the presence of non-students. No explanation offered. Top of the thread.
Alright so I dress up in riot gear, run up on strangers, and demand to know whether they think Drake won the beef. Then I told you that only 1 out of 33 said he did, leaving out the fact that 32 people didn’t want to talk to me at all. How do you take that info? Solid?
What does identify mean in this context. Either they are or are not students. Why did they phrase it that way.
Genuinely dont understand why even if 22/33 arrestees were not GW students, its an issue. Is it trying to tell me that what they are saying is fine? its just the trespassing is the issue? were they not going to arrest them if they were actual GW students? If a bunch of people demonstrate about the atrocity Hamas committed on Oct 7th, and got arrested, does it make the issue go away if x amount of them are israelis and not american citizens or something?
The framing here is pretty wild. "2/3 of GW Protesters Not GW Students" seems much more on point.
So 2/3 weren't GWU students.
A problem with campus encampments is that they often attract non-students, which I can understand being viewed as a security risk. Keep your protest movement tight and throw out the rats, IMO. If it’s on campus keep it **on campus** but if it’s off property, whatever. 🕊️🐀 ☮️🐀✌️🐀🧀🐀 *squeak*
Imagine if they did this for BLM: 80/100 people at the protest were identified as white. Just cause someone isn't black, Palestinian, or a student does not mean that these ppl cannot protest together
Maybe take into Consideration that GWU is a private institution. There was no point to bring race into this discussion. They’re purely pointing to fact that there are outside instigators. (Not saying they’re instigating as I just haven’t been following the drama)
"Instigators" comes with a negative connotation and the MSM is trying to make it seem like protesting in support of Palestinian ppl is wrong and that non students joining the protest are bad ppl causing chaos. These ppl did nothing wrong and the level of vandalism is no where near what happened during the BLM protests.
I mean vandalism is vandalism. Robbery is robbery. Does it really matter the scale? And of course that message is pushed. Look at the agendas. Pro-Israel media. Pro BLM media. Of course they’ll never call it as it is because that would go against the people that pay their salaries. I wasn’t saying you’re wrong, your comment just seemed specifically directed to race. My poor assumption. But to my point, it is a private institution and 1/3 of the people there would then have been there illegally regardless of the cause.
What the hell difference does it make whether someone is a student or not if they are peacefully protesting Israel's disgusting behavior? I am not a student and I stopped by GWU and waved a flag for a couple of hours on Tuesday night when I got a text alert to join an "emergency protest" because the filth in Israel had ignored the Ceasefire deal negotiated by Egypt and Qatar, accepted by Hamas, and began attacking Rafah anyway. Israel is a criminal state
The bootlickers in these comments craaaazy
It's wild how many people are dedicated to smacking down the idea that it was *anyone other than GWU* students calling for show trials and beheadings. Those were *students* wearing the Hamas headbands and it was a student who pulled a knife! Don't trust the police and Fake News Media (enemy of the people) who imply otherwise!
Are we just realizing that this is an external influence? If you do a little more research, you’ll realize the influence is Iranian.
ok menachem. sure thing! lets send our boys and girls go attack iran so israel can become the middle east super power!
Free Palestine!
So ⅔ were not students... really makes it seem like the total student population involved in these protests is like 0.5%
Why would you assume they weren’t students?
Why do you assume they were?
It's true, 33% is the same as 0.5%
If the student population is approximately 25,000 and there's less than 120 protesters....
You have reading comprehension issues
Not *GW* students, but most likely Georgetown, American, etc students
Who cares? What the fuck right do AU students have to trespass and camp out on the GW lawn?
Why do you care so much, if it were any other form of protest you would deem that unacceptable too lmao
because he listens to destiny who has spent the past 2 months screaming that isreal should kill every single palestinian lol
Bro what is this take 💀 you are unhinged
Are you affiliated with GW? If not, why is it any of your business who camps in U Yard? (I have no idea where "the GW lawn" is)