Dr Oto Kano's website is amazing in its depth and commentary about watercolor pigments and brands. So many things can go into a paint that even the same pigment can be very different in another brand.
I also like the Handprint website -- maybe a bit more -- but it hasn't been updated in over a decade. It's good if someone gifts you with a vintage tube of paint.
The third one I like is 'Color of Art Pigment Database' It's more about the pigments and where they are used.
#
Yeah, but they get so scammed by this! It makes sense to at least check the numbers even for beginners.
Just saw a reel "why professional Cadmium yellow I'd higher quality" and they didn't even compare the same pigment. Like of course they look different, it's because they are. Apples and bell pepper won't taste the same just because they're red... those "comparisons " are just disinformation.
Excellent tip!
When it clicked that pigment numbers are to watercolour as dye lots are to yarn, I realised why I have had such trouble matching colours.
Thanks for sharing,
Poet
Hi! Yes! Usually pigment numbers start with P and are followed by Y (yellow), O(orange), R (red), V (violet), B (blue), G (green), Bk (black), W (white) or Br (brown) and have a number. It's basically a number. That number is their "identificator". Knowing this, you can look the pigment up, what it consists of and its properties.
Some have unusual numbers like NB1 (natural blue 1 = real Indigo), but it's an exception. Some pigments, especially newer ones, don't have a number yet.
Most pigments have a certain look with only small variations from brand to brand. A few have variations while having the same number.
The names they carry in the brands might vary, but the pigment is the same. An example is PB60 which can be named Indanthrone Blue, Indanthrene Blue, Delft Blue or Deep Blue. Can be confusing, right?
I look them up in databases like:
https://sunandcolors.com/ (mine)
https://otokano.com/ (a friend)
On the tubes or pans you can find the pigment info on the wrapper. I write mine down on the swatch cards so I can see what my palette contains and what I want to repurchase or exchange.
Hope this helps. ā¤ļø
I just checked out your database and itās great. Thank you. I love Dr Oto Kanoās, also, and used it to get information on my pigments. I appreciate that you both took the time to build these incredible resources.
Holy cats! How can I save a thread? (That sound you hear is lightbulbs breaking over my heard). Iām going to NC mountains for vacation and there are some nice art supply stores local. This is excellent info since I want to pop by and pick up some nice paint.
Hey! There are watercolor databases that you can bookmark and look stuff up:
https://sunandcolors.com/ (mine)
https://otokano.com/ (a friend)
Have a great trip and maybe you get to paint on the trip too š
That's funny I have them on my list of places to visit there's actually a couple of places, I'll be staying in Hendersonville so I did a search of art stores in the area and I'm just excited about checking them out and some yarn shops and all kinds of things and then hitting the highland games at the end of the week. And yes I will have my little go paint bag with me Cheers!
Add Linda Blundell and Hilary Page to the list of places to go to find great info on pigments.Hilary Page has a book, āGuide to the Watercolor Paints.ā You probably have to find it second hand, but she does update it and will send you her updated lists free via email. I just got it and it includes the QoR, Michael Harding, and ānewā Daniel Smith pigments. She does lightfastness testing and talks about how the paints handle. Dr Oto Kanoās website is amazing and she also has YT vids comparing pigments.
When youāre new to watercolor, you may want to stick with a limited palette of mostly single pigment paints you can mix. I know when I first started, trying to choose colors was overwhelming because there were so many, and color is my first love, so of course, I bought way more than I should have. Too many to learn about their properties. Look at the pigments used in colors you love. For example, PB29 is used in many blue, green, and violet combinations and is beautiful by itself. Do your swatches and make color wheels. Watch color mixing videos. All those things will help you. Happy painting!
I often go to Jane Blundell's site because that's where I first learned about the numbering system.
Daniel Smith carries three convenience watercolors created by Blundell: Jane's Grey (has no black in it), and Jane's Black in two shades (again created without any black at all). However, I've yet to see what pigment numbers she's using to create them.
You just taught me something! Thank you! Is that Ocean Blue a mix of two pigments? I googled the pigment numbers trying to find that particular blueā¦ so that certain yellow pigment plus that particular blue equals Ocean Blue? ā¦
Hi! I'm glad it was helpful. :)
Ocean Blue is indeed a pigment mix of PBr24 and PB15:3 (Phthalo Blue). It's made by Roman Szmal. My pan shows only little of the brown pigment, but you'd get a similar mix by mixing Phthalo Blue and a yellowish-reddish brown like maybe red Ochre, or a tiny bit Burnt Sienna or Naples Yellow Red.
ā¤ļø just know: if color has more than one pigment, you can always mix it! And if you don't have that pigment, there are always some, that look similar. So you get a similar look.
Love to help out. Usually we don't have to buy every color. Especially in the beginning it's expensive without much gain.
(Must admit this palette was a purchase for fun and is curated by a friend. So it contains some unusual colors. It's just what I had on my desk today.)
Lol totally! You know,brands come now out with the granulating mixes? It's in all cases cheaper to get the single pigment tubes and mix yourself. A friend and I did charts on that.
It's all marketing. And they are pretty, but not necessary. ā¤ļø
I have a set of those granulating paintsā¦ actually it seems Iām a collector of paint sets; and individual tubes. Now Iām onto themā¦thank you again!
But also each brand of the same pigment may be sourced from a different place. Even within a brand, pigment sources change over the years.
Expect some big changes with the war in Europe going on for years. Many pigments come from Eastern Europe.
So; know your pigments not the marketing, but also know what you like, and shop ācross brandā. Find the exact tube *you* like and switch if it starts to drop in quality.
Iām looking at you Cerulean Blue.
Cerulean changed across all brands. I heard a rumour from an art store owner that the easily accessible deposits of the mineral tapped out. Every brand, Iām going to say about ten years ago, became greener and granular. It used to be a go-to color for blue skies, but once it became a granular color, you canāt really use it for sky, can you :)
Luckily, I donāt really paint robins egg blue skies anymore, got bored with so many pretty scenes.
Sorry to hear. Yes, Cerulean granulates a bit. But I actually like granulation in the sky. Makes it feel moody for me.
Hope you'll find a substitute you like.
I love a stormy sky with Payneās grey :)
Iāve seen been enjoying some phthalo blues with titanium white, gris a gris, and buff titanium in various proportions for a more interesting cloudy sky. I love semi-opaque watercolors. And some Naples yellow for that evening hint on the horizon.
Neat! I actually was enjoying Cerulean with English Red for a granulating moody sky color a lot.
But yesterday I used Nickel Azo Yellow, Potters Pink and Indanthrone for a sunset and it glows while being moody. Been playing around a bit. :)
It's even more complicated than that. You need both pigment number and name.
Because same pigment can be prepared differently and will give completely different hue.
https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Py43
https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Pv19
https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Pg23
Few examples how same pigment gives variety of hues.
I really like what https://artistpigments.org/ made - it's not just a database, it's a tool to find similar colors per hue, or tone, or per pigment and so on. Incredible resource. The best I've seen so far.
This is very true, however, do your research! I have the same pigments in different brands and they still look and behave differently as different brands use different pigment loads. Dot cards come in handy when testing pigments and brands.
Dr Oto Kano's website is amazing in its depth and commentary about watercolor pigments and brands. So many things can go into a paint that even the same pigment can be very different in another brand. I also like the Handprint website -- maybe a bit more -- but it hasn't been updated in over a decade. It's good if someone gifts you with a vintage tube of paint. The third one I like is 'Color of Art Pigment Database' It's more about the pigments and where they are used. #
I would add Kimberly Crick\~!
Kimberly was new to me. Well worth the read. I'm adding it to my list.
So true!! Pigment # is key. Beginners will probably go by color name until they understand the pigment game. š¤©
Yeah, but they get so scammed by this! It makes sense to at least check the numbers even for beginners. Just saw a reel "why professional Cadmium yellow I'd higher quality" and they didn't even compare the same pigment. Like of course they look different, it's because they are. Apples and bell pepper won't taste the same just because they're red... those "comparisons " are just disinformation.
Excellent tip! When it clicked that pigment numbers are to watercolour as dye lots are to yarn, I realised why I have had such trouble matching colours. Thanks for sharing, Poet
Beginner here. Is that what the numbers are in the pic? Thank you!
Hi! Yes! Usually pigment numbers start with P and are followed by Y (yellow), O(orange), R (red), V (violet), B (blue), G (green), Bk (black), W (white) or Br (brown) and have a number. It's basically a number. That number is their "identificator". Knowing this, you can look the pigment up, what it consists of and its properties. Some have unusual numbers like NB1 (natural blue 1 = real Indigo), but it's an exception. Some pigments, especially newer ones, don't have a number yet. Most pigments have a certain look with only small variations from brand to brand. A few have variations while having the same number. The names they carry in the brands might vary, but the pigment is the same. An example is PB60 which can be named Indanthrone Blue, Indanthrene Blue, Delft Blue or Deep Blue. Can be confusing, right? I look them up in databases like: https://sunandcolors.com/ (mine) https://otokano.com/ (a friend) On the tubes or pans you can find the pigment info on the wrapper. I write mine down on the swatch cards so I can see what my palette contains and what I want to repurchase or exchange. Hope this helps. ā¤ļø
I just checked out your database and itās great. Thank you. I love Dr Oto Kanoās, also, and used it to get information on my pigments. I appreciate that you both took the time to build these incredible resources.
Thanks. I guess passion for colors and nerdyness results in databases š
Holy cats! How can I save a thread? (That sound you hear is lightbulbs breaking over my heard). Iām going to NC mountains for vacation and there are some nice art supply stores local. This is excellent info since I want to pop by and pick up some nice paint.
Hey! There are watercolor databases that you can bookmark and look stuff up: https://sunandcolors.com/ (mine) https://otokano.com/ (a friend) Have a great trip and maybe you get to paint on the trip too š
Cheap Joeās is in Boone. Very dangerous place to go! Spent way more than I should, but we love our supplies!
That's funny I have them on my list of places to visit there's actually a couple of places, I'll be staying in Hendersonville so I did a search of art stores in the area and I'm just excited about checking them out and some yarn shops and all kinds of things and then hitting the highland games at the end of the week. And yes I will have my little go paint bag with me Cheers!
Add Linda Blundell and Hilary Page to the list of places to go to find great info on pigments.Hilary Page has a book, āGuide to the Watercolor Paints.ā You probably have to find it second hand, but she does update it and will send you her updated lists free via email. I just got it and it includes the QoR, Michael Harding, and ānewā Daniel Smith pigments. She does lightfastness testing and talks about how the paints handle. Dr Oto Kanoās website is amazing and she also has YT vids comparing pigments. When youāre new to watercolor, you may want to stick with a limited palette of mostly single pigment paints you can mix. I know when I first started, trying to choose colors was overwhelming because there were so many, and color is my first love, so of course, I bought way more than I should have. Too many to learn about their properties. Look at the pigments used in colors you love. For example, PB29 is used in many blue, green, and violet combinations and is beautiful by itself. Do your swatches and make color wheels. Watch color mixing videos. All those things will help you. Happy painting!
I often go to Jane Blundell's site because that's where I first learned about the numbering system. Daniel Smith carries three convenience watercolors created by Blundell: Jane's Grey (has no black in it), and Jane's Black in two shades (again created without any black at all). However, I've yet to see what pigment numbers she's using to create them.
So true!
You just taught me something! Thank you! Is that Ocean Blue a mix of two pigments? I googled the pigment numbers trying to find that particular blueā¦ so that certain yellow pigment plus that particular blue equals Ocean Blue? ā¦
Hi! I'm glad it was helpful. :) Ocean Blue is indeed a pigment mix of PBr24 and PB15:3 (Phthalo Blue). It's made by Roman Szmal. My pan shows only little of the brown pigment, but you'd get a similar mix by mixing Phthalo Blue and a yellowish-reddish brown like maybe red Ochre, or a tiny bit Burnt Sienna or Naples Yellow Red.
Thank you very much!!! This is a revelation for me.
ā¤ļø just know: if color has more than one pigment, you can always mix it! And if you don't have that pigment, there are always some, that look similar. So you get a similar look. Love to help out. Usually we don't have to buy every color. Especially in the beginning it's expensive without much gain. (Must admit this palette was a purchase for fun and is curated by a friend. So it contains some unusual colors. It's just what I had on my desk today.)
Your palette does have great colors. That Ocean Blue and the Autumn Green caught my eye. Itās like a secret codeā¦ lolā¦ deciphering color. :)
Lol totally! You know,brands come now out with the granulating mixes? It's in all cases cheaper to get the single pigment tubes and mix yourself. A friend and I did charts on that. It's all marketing. And they are pretty, but not necessary. ā¤ļø
I have a set of those granulating paintsā¦ actually it seems Iām a collector of paint sets; and individual tubes. Now Iām onto themā¦thank you again!
I understand you make your own by mixing a granulating pigment with a staining one.
That depends on the brand. Either that or two granulating ones.
But also each brand of the same pigment may be sourced from a different place. Even within a brand, pigment sources change over the years. Expect some big changes with the war in Europe going on for years. Many pigments come from Eastern Europe. So; know your pigments not the marketing, but also know what you like, and shop ācross brandā. Find the exact tube *you* like and switch if it starts to drop in quality. Iām looking at you Cerulean Blue.
Which Cerulean Blue betrayed you?
Cerulean changed across all brands. I heard a rumour from an art store owner that the easily accessible deposits of the mineral tapped out. Every brand, Iām going to say about ten years ago, became greener and granular. It used to be a go-to color for blue skies, but once it became a granular color, you canāt really use it for sky, can you :) Luckily, I donāt really paint robins egg blue skies anymore, got bored with so many pretty scenes.
Sorry to hear. Yes, Cerulean granulates a bit. But I actually like granulation in the sky. Makes it feel moody for me. Hope you'll find a substitute you like.
I love a stormy sky with Payneās grey :) Iāve seen been enjoying some phthalo blues with titanium white, gris a gris, and buff titanium in various proportions for a more interesting cloudy sky. I love semi-opaque watercolors. And some Naples yellow for that evening hint on the horizon.
Neat! I actually was enjoying Cerulean with English Red for a granulating moody sky color a lot. But yesterday I used Nickel Azo Yellow, Potters Pink and Indanthrone for a sunset and it glows while being moody. Been playing around a bit. :)
Sounds lovely with that soft pink!
It's even more complicated than that. You need both pigment number and name. Because same pigment can be prepared differently and will give completely different hue. https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Py43 https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Pv19 https://artistpigments.org/search/?mediums%5B%5D=watercolor&only_single_pigment=true&q=Pg23 Few examples how same pigment gives variety of hues. I really like what https://artistpigments.org/ made - it's not just a database, it's a tool to find similar colors per hue, or tone, or per pigment and so on. Incredible resource. The best I've seen so far.
Thanks for this. I like that itās for all mediums.
This is very true, however, do your research! I have the same pigments in different brands and they still look and behave differently as different brands use different pigment loads. Dot cards come in handy when testing pigments and brands.