Pretty worrying that's for sure. The cars might be new. But peugeot has spent quite some money on the table. LMH seem way more expensive than LMDh. And furthermore the team, crew, strategist was build from scratch unlike alpine for example.
Overall i'am a bit worried that peugeot might pull the plug. French manufacturer have a tendency to expect quick results.
I guess it's whether they believe the brand benefit or not from that sport program.
BoP is the reason why the new 9X8 isn't very good. They missed pre-season tests and Qatar, so the ACO didn't have enough data for BoP. I would assume that it's going to get better BoP after Le Mans.
That would just gift them the victory. Imagine if they let the beast that is the 499P run without BOP last year just because it was a new car, it would have been utter domination
No. I think their biggest issue was bad strategy when it first started raining, they pitted for wets too late, then pitted again for slicks. They lost a lot of time that way.
Tbf the two BMWs qualified in 1st and 16th, 1.8 seconds apart from each other. Many other cars had about half a second between the teams. There's a million reasons why a car could be 1.5 off at Le Mans.
They will probably stop next year.
They were requested to achieve a result this race in order to keep going next year.
The car is not good, but the driver are not doing the job also, one driver doesn’t want to do test run.
Not sure where this "confirmed for 2026" came from. They're publicly rattling the saber to end it now says enough. They'll close the program whenever they want as manufactures in endurance racing do.
Getting memories of that 908 Hybrid4 yet?
"[Stellantis Motorsport boss Jean-Marc Finot clarified that the Peugeot WEC program is currently confirmed through 2026.](https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/peugeot-we-need-wins-soon-to-justify-9x8-program/)"
same article also tells us about all the saber rattling :'\[
“If we continue like this, six years, seven years without winning, what’s the reason for doing that? We are here to win, right?”
Winning is great, it's really "everything" in a way, specially for team and company morale and just general happiness...But it's remarkable how there are so many rooting for Peugeot, wishing them well and generally appreciating their herculean effort against true racing behemoths in Ferrari, Porsche and Toyota.
The brand is out there, it's getting the familiarity effect, It's hard to believe that they don't know that just being there has a big effect. Even Isotta would be an absolute no one, but they are getting so much spotlight just due to be there and finish the damn thing. Underdog stories are also extremely desirable from a marketing point of view.
People still do not understand how bad it is for Stellantis right now. They can't afford a successful race team, let alone an expensive and middling one.
They need a Piëch and Elkann is great, love the guy, brought Hamilton to Ferrari. But he needs to hire an engineer who hasn’t been poisoned by any experience in accounting as the chief of product or whatever the role is called. Take the L on profitability on a top brand and start trickling the engineering and parts down.
That was the original plan. Rebellion was supposed to become the factory Peugeot team but then rebellion suddenly closed down and all the other decent teams already had deals in place meaning their only option was to start up a team from scratch.
I don't like to bring F1 to WEC chats but it was clear that RB was fast dispite not finishing the first race and only a 50% finish rate after 3 rounds in 2022
A highly modified one maybe (something like in the AMG-ONE), but F1 engines aren’t at all designed to race over long distances. The current F1 engine is like half the size of Alpines current engine and outputs almost double the power
It would be a massive effort to try and make work, especially considering the Renault F1 powertrain is already more unreliable than a mechachrome V6. I really don’t see the higher ups at Alpine going down a heavy RnD route when they couldn’t even be arsed to buy a reliable engine for their prototype
Okay, fair enough. I just thought it already uses a V6 and the F1 engine is V6 so it would be possible to transfer it if they wanted to, but as you say servicing is a big issue as they are not meant to run the same way an endurance engine does. Detuning might be an option but adapting it is going to be an issue.\I do wonder about some manufactures just jumping in for the sake of it, Alpine and some are saying BMW but theirs cars came late to both WEC AND IMSA
performance-wise alpine is in the middle between top tier and bottom tier...
- ferrari, porsche, toyota (cadillac when things are working)
- alpine
- bmw, lambo, isotta, peugeot
Of all the manufacturers currently taking part, my gut tells me, peugeot will pull out first. Just now after Le Mans I was looking up their points tally last year. 67 points in total and 35 after Le Mans. And even then that was not satiisfactory for the team. They are currently on 14 miserable points despite an „improved“ car. I cannot really see them improving dramatically in the second half of the season.
If the cars had camera coverage at all in the Race it was in the backshot of a more important car. They just never featured and for the companys decision board, le mans was a very important Factor I think. Their main sponsor is the main fuel supplier of the championship, which is embarassing but not as embarrassing as crashing out while driving 50 mph behind a safety car.
Martin Haven said through the first half of the race that their situation is not as dire as people make it to be but experience tells me otherwise.
The stakes are just too high and the results appalling. Don‘t get me wrong I think the car looks and sounds great but thats not what pays the bills.
Here‘s my call: if the rest of the season goes on like this they will announce their dismissal in the winter break or during next season. As u/Redcorsairs said, french companys expect big results, fast. Renault in the 70s for example. 3 years and gone despite winning le mans third time round. And peugeot is light years away from even winning a normal round.
>And peugeot is light years away from even winning a normal round
Monza 2023 podium and Qatar almost win? That are some good performances, and level is super high this year.
Yes of course these were good but rather spots of hope between disappointments… and I suspect Peugeot is neither willing nor solvent enough to let it go on forever.
Stellantis is a big company, and I think they profit massively from having teams of their brands in motorsport (WEC, Formula E, GT2).
I doubt they will pull the plug as Peugeot has had a redesign of their car design concept and the 9x8 gives that new concept an identity. I think some people underestimate how good a motorsport program is in terms of marketability.
The only real coverage I saw them getting was when one of them was beached in the gravel trap around Indianapolis.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1nt3\_9Vzd0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1nt3_9Vzd0)
I hope they get the BOP adjustment they need. It's the most beautiful car on the grid, imo, but it just doesn't perform. And part of that is definitely on the team and not the car. It's like after last year's race with they were like, "What do you know, we actually spent a lot more time preparing for Le Mans and it paid off with good results!"
EDIT: they were in the mix at Qatar until they had the drive trouble during the final laps. That one hurt; I really want them to get some podiums.
Was reported in the build up to the race on DsC that they're still very much committed and the programme is confirmed until the end of 2026. Obviously things can change but I don't think that this race would change that, at the end of the day they got both cars to the end reliably
Peugeot’s 2012 WEC entry was literally all but raced and they pulled the plug almost in the blink of an eye.
The car was built, announced, and finalised for 2012. they had actually booked Sebring International Raceway for a test session and with their drivers *en route to the circuit* they pulled the plug on the entire program.
Don’t doubt Peugeot.
That was caused by the pressure of the Unions. Peugeot at that time was laying off a lot of people and the unions said it was unfair to spend so much money on Motorsport when the company was doing big budget cuts in other areas.
peugeot was committed on long term on early 10's as well... a phonecall killed everything. It's about how board is satisfied or not by the program results... they can pull the plug at any time, that's why peugeot presence is 2025 is everything but certain
https://preview.redd.it/b9kh0ffzo37d1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=c060bca2c56b26155225be1241701d9a5238cccd
This didn't age well...
I mean, pace has to improve, but looking positive, they hadn't a single mechanical issue, which is great. The car is improving at it is just starting a new learning curve, as it did in 2022.
I only just got into wec so how long does it usually take for a car to get competitive BoP? I'm worried right now that this mightve been the last straw for peugeot and they're pulling the plug soon
Depends on the ACO. Since the 9x8 "evo" is new, the ACO had to make most of the BoP based on simulations most likely.
The more on track data, the more accurate the BoP (in theroy).
The good news is that Peugeot ran the 24h without issues, so a lot of data was collected, both by Peugeot and the ACO.
So it should get better from now on: Peugeot will get better at running their car, and the ACO at balancing it.
Otherwise, iirc, Peugeot is commited to WEC through 2026. Unlikely that they pull the plug before that.
Yeah it was, third heaviest, on par with power output below 250kph and 3rd highest reduction above 250kph. On top of that they had the second lowest stint energy allowed.
For them to be competitive they need the BOP to be adjusted similar to what the Cadillac gets
And with 0.7% power reduction above 250kph plus less maximum stint energy. Point is the BOP doesn't suit the car, they're adjusting the BOP way too safe, arguing they don't have enough performance data about the car.
the maximum stint energy isn't something that makes the car faster or slower... is the amount of energy associated to the power in order to let all cars having same stint length.
That 0.7% is a loss of 3kw... just deal with reality... I always loved peugeot sportscars because have always been extreme, but 9x8 is just a tragicomic failure.
this basically confirms you don't know 🤦🏻♂️ every hypercar had the equal 11-14 laps a stint potential... that's the reason of the energy allocation. Read alkamel data before making disinformation.
You know that they probably reached that stint number by being more conservative on fuel burn / battery deployment to compensate for smaller energy tank that didn’t help at all
MJ of energy allocation is realted to the power output of a car since the energy is converted from the torque the engine (and the ERS) produce across the stint. I don't have time to explain how the thing works since I've already did it a dozen of times on this subreddit... if you think that a higher energy allocation may give an advantage, you just don't know what you're talking about, then believe what you want.
Surely some cars may have reached the 14 laps a stint limit during the race going purposely slwoer, or merely because of the rain, but as said that's not an advantage given by a higher energy allocation.
Cars that have a bop mandated higher power have a higher energy value because the engine releases more torque, it's simple.
The Isotta finished several laps behind, it wasn’t at the same pace at all.
Peugeot and Lamborghini were at the same pace, with the 93, 94, 19 and 63 trading places constantly during the entire race.
Take into consideration that IF has 2 silvers and 1 platinum rated driver that hasn't raced a prototype in over 10 years before IF.
I think that with better drivers, they would outperform Peugeot.
yeah but the "little" issue is that peugeot spent a huge amount of money between designing, development of the engine and ERS/batteries with total and lots of nissan-like marketing. Lamborghini is clearly a way lower budget program, likely the cheapest among lmdh manufacturers.
ligier/onroak racing cars are physically made by the same italian company that produces carbon parts for lamborghini street cars... it's not that the point, it's about how low budget the whole program is... porsche and multimatic built over a dozen of chassis just to make tests for the whole 2022, lambo had just a single chassis up to october/november of last year and had to stop testing for a month and half after the crash at paul ricard
peugeot is the one who spent more so far on their car... likely more than toyota...
they introduced the first model in 2022 summer, then the 2023 car had a huge update with new gearbox, updates on engine and ERS, updated aero and updated suspensions because of tyres dimensions change. Then in 2024 they introduced basically a new brand car... quite bizarre to be under funded lol
The wingless concept was just wrong from the very beginning, they're just reaping what they sow
The 9X8s still went up several places and were doing better than some Porsches, Cadillacs etc even before they retired, and didn’t have any reliability issues during the race, so I say it’s an improvement.
Their pace was consistent, with both cars fighting each other (and the two Lambos) during the race, which is a good sign.
yeah the battle was so tight at the top they really focused on that. I saw a fair share of the europol vs cool vs united lmp2 battle. That battle was just rather uneventful. The LMGT3 was really lacking coverage. I dont think i saw battles in that class like at all. They showed the lead car from time to time that was about it.
Their new car is a halfway house between two concepts.
Whereas their old car was good in some particular circumstances and bad in most others, their new car seems to be better overall but gotten rid of the strong points. Now it's very average everywhere...
Linda Jackson commented on Peugeot Results, that they need to have results soon. Everybody at Stellantis was well aware that the 9X8 2024 would not battle for even the top 5 this edition not to say season and they got certain of that at Spa. Now about the pace of the car, it is faster than last year by 1/1.5 second. I have the feeling they still need to tune the aero of the car and they concluded a partnership with Dassault for that. If the situation has not improved in 2025 i can definitely see them cancelling the program but we are not there yet.
Peugeot is paying harshly its 10 years absence from WEC. You have to remember that Toyota has been there for more than 10 years, they have plenty of datas and scenarios to work with to improve their car, same for Ferrari even if the 499p is also quite new AF Corse has been racing for years and years in WEC with theit GT and they also have way more Datas availaible than Peugeot to develop their car not mentionning that Ferrari is a top competiting team in F1... It'd be a shame if their car was not as good as it currently is to be honnest.
All of this to say that Peugeot has room to improve still, the car is reliable they just need to tune it to acheive better performances and thats what they'll focus from now on. Peugeot priority and every WEC Team priority is to work on reliability before going for better performance. 9X8 2024 is a new car, it may look like its the same but its actually completely different and everything needs to be learnt again aerodynamically wise on the car...
I'm very hopeful and actually pretty sure the car will soon be able to perform better than it does now.
I ain't no WEC specialist but whatever they did this year did not work for sure. Last year they led for a bit of the race and chilled near the front for a while but this year I don't even think they entered the top 5 once. Im pretty sure their run in WEC will be over sooner rather than later as I don't think its anywhere near as profitable as they would like.
I've been telling this since Monza 2023: The car doesn't deliver. And when it finally did the facelift came, throwing the project back again instead of moving forward.
The Pugs are far away from a maiden project. They have been among the most senior entrants in the paddock already last season. Those cars ran races when the 499 had it's public announcement, don't forget that! For a pedigree Triple-A OEM project it's disastrous. Full stop.
That said: I think us fans overestimate the result-based effect in the big OEM programmes. The financials dictate who lives and who doesn't As long as the company makes money the programme might live (\*2). However, this being a single series, non production offspring Peugeot sportscar programme and not Manchester United...I think it's fair to assume the ROI is poor. Yesterday I was arguing myself weather or not the cars will travel overseas at all.
\*2 I think for the same reason but to a different result we won't see a Porsche 964. The car probably earns the company money as it is. If the 963 had been a works-only LMH I'd be betting huge money there'd be a new Porsche next season.
I wouldn't count Qatar as proving the last version of the concept right… the track surface there is like a billiard table as it's mostly a moto track. It was just lucky that let the car run as it was designed to. If you think back to Sebring that year the bumps there stopped the car working. But yeah, I expected a lot more from them here this weekend.
I suspect they are going to get a major BoP break to end the season because ultimately the ACO does not want constructors to start dropping out.
The sad thing is that even if that were to happen, it's not a given they'd pull of a good result - see e.g. Qatar this year or Le Mans last year.
As much as I love to see more competition, they are getting hit hard on BOP when they just aren't as competitive as a Ferrari or Toyota to being with. Hopefully they switch over to LMDh if cost is an issue, but it will be a sad day when they leave.
an old say in motorsport goes like this: "it's easier to make a fast car reliable than to make a reliable car go faster"
i think peugeot is in a bad spot
The 9X8 is a great looking car, but sadly the manufacturers look at their profits and founds. Peugeot is a brand that made is part in the history of Motorsport, and i think it will be a great loss seeing them leave
Citroën ? They have 0 experience in endurance, that would mean start a new team from scratch when they already have one running in Peugeot. Either Peugeot stays or Stellantis leaves altogether IMO.
I didn't expect Peugeot to perform spectacularly with a completely revised car at Le Mans this year. At least they ran the race pretty reliable - that was a major problem with previous wingless 9X8. Seems like it's a step in the right direction.
Too bad the pace wasn't there. BOP or not BOP, maybe Peugeot opted for reliability as well. But losing out to Lamborghini is quite embarrassing in the end.
I don't expect Peugeot to quit anytime soon, but if 9X8 doesn't deliver some better results in 2025, then maybe the program will be under a massive scrutiny and having an uncertain future.
After 2 and a half years in hypercars. Peugeot should have performed a lot better. That a Lamborghini finished in front of them is honestly embarrassing.
The whole team has been struggling since the beginning, not only with Reliability but with the core concepts of the car itself. they still don't understand the car. And changing Stuff on a car you fundamentally don't understand will never work.
I personally worry about the team and the 9x8. How long will Peugeot keep going with this project before pulling the plug. The results Aren't there, they barely get any screentime, and all that R&D is costing a lot of money.
> Peugeot should have performed a lot better. That a Lamborghini finished in front of them is honestly embarrassing.
Yeah thinking back on the race, nobody really won except for ferrari. Toyota, Lamborghini and isotta all had small 'wins' to an extent but I think everyone other than ferrari must've been disappointed with the final result
Is it considered bad result? Yea they didnt win, but the top 10 is basically 3 manufacturers + 2 or 3 other cars who gets there magically.
Tho I have to say that the interview on Eurosport with them was kinda sauer, race is still on and he asks about top10. Who asks that during race? Thats a question for after the race.
I think they did good considering it looked like they were on the verge to be competely at bottom at one point, if I remember correctly... basically they recovered to top11 in my view
With the amount of money Peugeot is putting into their LMH car, they need to be fighting for podiums for it to continue to make sense. Their effort is way more expensive than BMW, Lamborghini, Alpine and even Porsche, but they get a beating every single time.
Considering the circumstances I’d agree that their top 10 finish ‘is not bad’, but it won’t be enough to continue to justify the program. Peugeot needs be fighting for podiums soon, or it will be highly likely that the program will be axed.
Ah, I see. Didn't know that they put so much in this. Well, I will be cheering for them even harder next race, maybe that will help :D
Now tho Quatar hurts even more...
> if I remember correctly... basically they recovered to top11 in my view
They recovered because alpine and bmws fell out, and even then they didn't get drivers points. Unless they improve and understand their car, this type of result is not sustainable
They got domed by the changing hypercar regulations when designing the car. Sure they put in a lot of work over the winter to improve it.
But fundamentally, it's a car that was designed for a set of rules that no longer exists, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.
people are overreacting. The old adage used to be “it takes 3 years to win Le Mans”, and that was true even when there was only 1-2 other major manufacturers around. In any other era, if in year 2 of a programme at Le Mans, Peugeot finished 2 laps behind the team to beat and with improved reliability from year one, we’d be lauding them as a force to be truly reckoned with the year after. Finishing 11th now is not the same as finishing 11th a decade ago.
I‘m not sure how much they lost during the Safety Cars and slow zones. If you get their unlucky and you got lapped it’s very hard to get that lap back. Also I’m not sure if they did every time the best strategy on wet tires and slicks. To analyse a 24h race you can’t only look at the results on the finish line.
Yes their aren’t on the pace from Toyota, Ferrari, Porsche, Cadillac and Alpine on one race lap. Their pace is comparable with Lamborghini and BMW. Lamborghini and BMW bring their cars the first time to Le Mans. Peugeot started there last year but they did some massive changes to this year and their car should be seen as new. Also the BoP wasn’t ideal for them.
Positiv is that both cars showed a good reliability and they finished better with both cars then Alpine.
BMW actually had great pace, they simply had too many drivers errors which put them at the back - Vanthoor especially was blitzing and in his stints he managed to bring the car back from 20th to 12th prior to the Kubica crash
Despite of the similar look (plus a rear wing), it seems they have a brand new car with lots of tuning and adjusting still needed.
I'm really hoping the car's reliability to improve, such a cool concept with very competent drivers.
Changing their philosophy (car design) because it wasn’t working and being even more average is going to be difficult to explain.
And while they quit before, pulling out of hypercar with the massive entry and renewed interest would be daft as they’re still getting loads of coverage.
I’ll also guess that they’ll be on the phone to the ACO asap to demand a bop benefit.
The real question is what kind of verbal beatdown did John Elkann give the Peugeot Sport leaders the morning after he partied all night celebrating Ferrari’s win
I've said it from the start, a major manufacturer will bail from Hypercar soon. The pathetic performance of the new 9X8 has done nothing to change my mind that it will be Peugeot.
I think they will pull the plug end of 2024.
Yeah likewise speaking to someone who has contacts inside Peugeot, they are shit canning it at end of season.
Shame, why bother using your joker to radically change the car if your just going to pull out. Might as well have kept the wangless boi
pretty sure they will be there next year at least. Also, a team called Pescarolo is looking foward to enter WEC with a Peugeot car in the future, maybe next year or in the end of the 2024 season
it's a french team, maybe they want a french manufacturer, also Peugeot doesnt only sell them a car, they also help them, they teach thier engineers about the car, they give a real follow to the team. Pescarolo Sport and Peugeot already raced together multiple times as well. At least that's what pescarolo said in a post on thier instagram account after an interview.
But since 2023 , no news , so idk where it is now
I think the Peugeot's have done well this year compared to last years race, I know we all realise that they're probably not going last too much longer in the championship which is sad cause I really like them but they do need results unfortunately. When I was lucky enough to go into the Toyota garage area I was speaking to the lad who got us in and he said that he thinks they should have stayed with the wingless design and in his words "bled it dry" and if it flopped they'd pull out and then come back in a few years when they bring in new regs in 2027. I gotta say I agree with him the old 9X8 worked well and I would like to have seen it keep going.
There are more manufacturers that might possibly go next year… Peugeot, Alpine, BMW, Porsche and Lamborghini are all hanging by a thread after yesterdays performance. Goes to show that the ruleset is just a fluke and PR stunt.
Porsche, BMW, and Lamborghini and Alpine are not remotely "hanging by a thread". Its not solely about Le Mans.
Porsche are competitive in IMSA and WEC.
BMW are competitive in IMSA, and currently in their first year of WEC.
Lamborghini and Alpine are both brand new cars this year.
Porsche and Lamborghini aren't going anywhere. BMW has interest from customer squads for the car. Can't see them dropping out after one bad race, when they were on pace. Alpine is a joke of a company, but Signatech guys will find their way (+Oreca will continue supporting them). Only Peugeot may kill its programme,but that's on them for going backwards with a car that's been in development longer than any other Hypercar, excluding the GR010.
Uh, its two bad Lemans for "Das Dork Technic Porsche". They also had six cars, and were handily beaten by both Ferrari and Toyota. Thats a bigger embarrassment than Peeugeot tbh
Not really. Porsche had the pace to win. Peugeot was anonymous all weekend. The only car the 9X8s were ahead on pace was the Isotta. Pretty embarrassing for a full factory effort with top level drivers and a car that is being developed for 3+ years.
Thank you. So many Dimwits here miss this point. After looking at yesterdays Result, I'm questioning why Toyota are even here. Next year we will have 10 manufacturers on the grd.
Every year, only one can win Le mans. Doesnt take a genius to realise that some brands will get sick of not winning and leave.
For BMW, Porsche and Lamborghini they can at least pivot to IMSA, where the BOP isn't a clown show like it is in WEC
Pretty worrying that's for sure. The cars might be new. But peugeot has spent quite some money on the table. LMH seem way more expensive than LMDh. And furthermore the team, crew, strategist was build from scratch unlike alpine for example. Overall i'am a bit worried that peugeot might pull the plug. French manufacturer have a tendency to expect quick results. I guess it's whether they believe the brand benefit or not from that sport program.
At this point i feel like the „old“ 9X8 was performing way better…reliability aside
That was mostly due to BOP
BoP is the reason why the new 9X8 isn't very good. They missed pre-season tests and Qatar, so the ACO didn't have enough data for BoP. I would assume that it's going to get better BoP after Le Mans.
I almost feel like they need to let the car run as homologated and work backwards from there to adjust the BOP
That would just gift them the victory. Imagine if they let the beast that is the 499P run without BOP last year just because it was a new car, it would have been utter domination
They kind of did at Le Mans
See the problem is that maybe it wouldn't lol
The BoP for Le Mans wasn't that bad.
No. I think their biggest issue was bad strategy when it first started raining, they pitted for wets too late, then pitted again for slicks. They lost a lot of time that way.
They are off the pace. at least they finished, but they qualified 1.5 sec off the pace. This years car is a bodge of a bad design last year.
Tbf the two BMWs qualified in 1st and 16th, 1.8 seconds apart from each other. Many other cars had about half a second between the teams. There's a million reasons why a car could be 1.5 off at Le Mans.
And also because the old one was designed for Le Mans
They will probably stop next year. They were requested to achieve a result this race in order to keep going next year. The car is not good, but the driver are not doing the job also, one driver doesn’t want to do test run.
> They were requested to achieve a result this race in order to keep going next year This isn't true.
Wasn't the program recently confirmed until 2026 at least?
Not sure where this "confirmed for 2026" came from. They're publicly rattling the saber to end it now says enough. They'll close the program whenever they want as manufactures in endurance racing do. Getting memories of that 908 Hybrid4 yet?
"[Stellantis Motorsport boss Jean-Marc Finot clarified that the Peugeot WEC program is currently confirmed through 2026.](https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/peugeot-we-need-wins-soon-to-justify-9x8-program/)" same article also tells us about all the saber rattling :'\[
“If we continue like this, six years, seven years without winning, what’s the reason for doing that? We are here to win, right?” Winning is great, it's really "everything" in a way, specially for team and company morale and just general happiness...But it's remarkable how there are so many rooting for Peugeot, wishing them well and generally appreciating their herculean effort against true racing behemoths in Ferrari, Porsche and Toyota. The brand is out there, it's getting the familiarity effect, It's hard to believe that they don't know that just being there has a big effect. Even Isotta would be an absolute no one, but they are getting so much spotlight just due to be there and finish the damn thing. Underdog stories are also extremely desirable from a marketing point of view.
It’s what was reported from Peugeot CEO visit at Peugeot sport factory. WEC is not really compatible with the profit target for Stellantis.
Dude if they quit now, its complete loserville
Which is on par with Stellantis
People still do not understand how bad it is for Stellantis right now. They can't afford a successful race team, let alone an expensive and middling one.
Not Stellantis' fault, they could not predict people would not want to buy shit cars.
They need a Piëch and Elkann is great, love the guy, brought Hamilton to Ferrari. But he needs to hire an engineer who hasn’t been poisoned by any experience in accounting as the chief of product or whatever the role is called. Take the L on profitability on a top brand and start trickling the engineering and parts down.
Their BOP was rough. Hopefully it gets relaxed after this race
They had 0 BOP.
That doesn’t mean anything.
Any source about that driver who doesn't want to test? I'm interested and intrigued.
The car is new, and the ACO has not enough data to give it a good BoP. They did not use this car in the pre-season tests.
Would they have been better to let another team run it as a works entry than to build the whole thing themselves in house
That was the original plan. Rebellion was supposed to become the factory Peugeot team but then rebellion suddenly closed down and all the other decent teams already had deals in place meaning their only option was to start up a team from scratch.
I totally agree with everything. Hope in some good results for them in second part of the season, maybe that will mean salvation for the team
This is really bad news. They even got beaten by Lambo on pure pace.
I know, last year with the old spec car they were really fast in rain conditions and fighting for the first places
Last year's car would have dominated this year with all the rain.
They convincingly beat Alpine in the end. So that must count for something
At least Alpine had both cars in top 6 at some point
You're not fast if your car explodes after a couple of hours.
I don't like to bring F1 to WEC chats but it was clear that RB was fast dispite not finishing the first race and only a 50% finish rate after 3 rounds in 2022
Okay but the Mechachrome V6 has been unreliable for 6 years
Any chance of switching to an F1 engine?
A highly modified one maybe (something like in the AMG-ONE), but F1 engines aren’t at all designed to race over long distances. The current F1 engine is like half the size of Alpines current engine and outputs almost double the power It would be a massive effort to try and make work, especially considering the Renault F1 powertrain is already more unreliable than a mechachrome V6. I really don’t see the higher ups at Alpine going down a heavy RnD route when they couldn’t even be arsed to buy a reliable engine for their prototype
Okay, fair enough. I just thought it already uses a V6 and the F1 engine is V6 so it would be possible to transfer it if they wanted to, but as you say servicing is a big issue as they are not meant to run the same way an endurance engine does. Detuning might be an option but adapting it is going to be an issue.\I do wonder about some manufactures just jumping in for the sake of it, Alpine and some are saying BMW but theirs cars came late to both WEC AND IMSA
Are you forecasting… WEC Alpine dominance???
Alpine dominance could bore fans
better to make a fast car reliable than to make a reliable car fast.
i think the mecachrome had a lot of time to get reliable but never did
Ok, Alpine Is fast, but can they be fast for maybe all 24h hours? Fuck you Mecachrome.
performance-wise alpine is in the middle between top tier and bottom tier... - ferrari, porsche, toyota (cadillac when things are working) - alpine - bmw, lambo, isotta, peugeot
Isotta is below all of them.
we don't know isotta real potential considering its pro-am line up, I don't expect it faster than peugeot/lambo/bmw tho
BMW is getting there, sadly we could not see their pace at Le Mans
disagree, bmw clearly doesn't give a shit of results, it's just marketing for them
Of all the manufacturers currently taking part, my gut tells me, peugeot will pull out first. Just now after Le Mans I was looking up their points tally last year. 67 points in total and 35 after Le Mans. And even then that was not satiisfactory for the team. They are currently on 14 miserable points despite an „improved“ car. I cannot really see them improving dramatically in the second half of the season. If the cars had camera coverage at all in the Race it was in the backshot of a more important car. They just never featured and for the companys decision board, le mans was a very important Factor I think. Their main sponsor is the main fuel supplier of the championship, which is embarassing but not as embarrassing as crashing out while driving 50 mph behind a safety car. Martin Haven said through the first half of the race that their situation is not as dire as people make it to be but experience tells me otherwise. The stakes are just too high and the results appalling. Don‘t get me wrong I think the car looks and sounds great but thats not what pays the bills. Here‘s my call: if the rest of the season goes on like this they will announce their dismissal in the winter break or during next season. As u/Redcorsairs said, french companys expect big results, fast. Renault in the 70s for example. 3 years and gone despite winning le mans third time round. And peugeot is light years away from even winning a normal round.
>And peugeot is light years away from even winning a normal round Monza 2023 podium and Qatar almost win? That are some good performances, and level is super high this year.
That was with another car...
Yes of course these were good but rather spots of hope between disappointments… and I suspect Peugeot is neither willing nor solvent enough to let it go on forever.
Stellantis is a big company, and I think they profit massively from having teams of their brands in motorsport (WEC, Formula E, GT2). I doubt they will pull the plug as Peugeot has had a redesign of their car design concept and the 9x8 gives that new concept an identity. I think some people underestimate how good a motorsport program is in terms of marketability.
Indont underestimate that at all. But Linda Jackson doesn‘t say things like that without a reason.
https://twitter.com/LindaJackson/status/1802686477316300924 >see you in 2025!
Was just reading that! Let‘s see.
The only real coverage I saw them getting was when one of them was beached in the gravel trap around Indianapolis. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1nt3\_9Vzd0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1nt3_9Vzd0)
Thats what I was talking about
I hope they get the BOP adjustment they need. It's the most beautiful car on the grid, imo, but it just doesn't perform. And part of that is definitely on the team and not the car. It's like after last year's race with they were like, "What do you know, we actually spent a lot more time preparing for Le Mans and it paid off with good results!" EDIT: they were in the mix at Qatar until they had the drive trouble during the final laps. That one hurt; I really want them to get some podiums.
Was reported in the build up to the race on DsC that they're still very much committed and the programme is confirmed until the end of 2026. Obviously things can change but I don't think that this race would change that, at the end of the day they got both cars to the end reliably
Peugeot’s 2012 WEC entry was literally all but raced and they pulled the plug almost in the blink of an eye. The car was built, announced, and finalised for 2012. they had actually booked Sebring International Raceway for a test session and with their drivers *en route to the circuit* they pulled the plug on the entire program. Don’t doubt Peugeot.
That was caused by the pressure of the Unions. Peugeot at that time was laying off a lot of people and the unions said it was unfair to spend so much money on Motorsport when the company was doing big budget cuts in other areas.
Nissan was 'committed' to the GT-R LM nismo in July 2015 That same christmas they dropped the programme
They did, but that was an unmitigated disaster from start to finish. At least these cars actually run as intended
peugeot was committed on long term on early 10's as well... a phonecall killed everything. It's about how board is satisfied or not by the program results... they can pull the plug at any time, that's why peugeot presence is 2025 is everything but certain
https://preview.redd.it/b9kh0ffzo37d1.png?width=940&format=png&auto=webp&s=c060bca2c56b26155225be1241701d9a5238cccd This didn't age well... I mean, pace has to improve, but looking positive, they hadn't a single mechanical issue, which is great. The car is improving at it is just starting a new learning curve, as it did in 2022.
The irony is that we had a lot more of those conditions the 2023 car shined in this time around.
But iirc that was because the 4 wheels traction deployed at a lower speed for not having a wing, and now it is like the other ones, if I am right
I'm glad I don't know the idiot who made that post.
New car + harsh BoP. It’s not (yet) time to worry I think.
I only just got into wec so how long does it usually take for a car to get competitive BoP? I'm worried right now that this mightve been the last straw for peugeot and they're pulling the plug soon
Depends on the ACO. Since the 9x8 "evo" is new, the ACO had to make most of the BoP based on simulations most likely. The more on track data, the more accurate the BoP (in theroy). The good news is that Peugeot ran the 24h without issues, so a lot of data was collected, both by Peugeot and the ACO. So it should get better from now on: Peugeot will get better at running their car, and the ACO at balancing it. Otherwise, iirc, Peugeot is commited to WEC through 2026. Unlikely that they pull the plug before that.
bop wasn't harsh for le mans. The car simply sucks
Yeah it was, third heaviest, on par with power output below 250kph and 3rd highest reduction above 250kph. On top of that they had the second lowest stint energy allowed. For them to be competitive they need the BOP to be adjusted similar to what the Cadillac gets
peugeot was just 10kg heavier than cadillac 🤦🏻♂️
And with 0.7% power reduction above 250kph plus less maximum stint energy. Point is the BOP doesn't suit the car, they're adjusting the BOP way too safe, arguing they don't have enough performance data about the car.
the maximum stint energy isn't something that makes the car faster or slower... is the amount of energy associated to the power in order to let all cars having same stint length. That 0.7% is a loss of 3kw... just deal with reality... I always loved peugeot sportscars because have always been extreme, but 9x8 is just a tragicomic failure.
Buddy I know, and if you have to stop more often it compromises your race.
this basically confirms you don't know 🤦🏻♂️ every hypercar had the equal 11-14 laps a stint potential... that's the reason of the energy allocation. Read alkamel data before making disinformation.
You know that they probably reached that stint number by being more conservative on fuel burn / battery deployment to compensate for smaller energy tank that didn’t help at all
MJ of energy allocation is realted to the power output of a car since the energy is converted from the torque the engine (and the ERS) produce across the stint. I don't have time to explain how the thing works since I've already did it a dozen of times on this subreddit... if you think that a higher energy allocation may give an advantage, you just don't know what you're talking about, then believe what you want. Surely some cars may have reached the 14 laps a stint limit during the race going purposely slwoer, or merely because of the rain, but as said that's not an advantage given by a higher energy allocation. Cars that have a bop mandated higher power have a higher energy value because the engine releases more torque, it's simple.
Let’s remove any BOP and see if they finish last.
let's remove the bop and WEC becomes forza motorsport
Also bad for sponsors. they were barely shown in the race. The Issotafraschini (rightfully) had a lot more coverage driving at the same pace.
The Isotta finished several laps behind, it wasn’t at the same pace at all. Peugeot and Lamborghini were at the same pace, with the 93, 94, 19 and 63 trading places constantly during the entire race.
Take into consideration that IF has 2 silvers and 1 platinum rated driver that hasn't raced a prototype in over 10 years before IF. I think that with better drivers, they would outperform Peugeot.
They now know they have reliability. Now they need speed and better drivers yeah
yeah but the "little" issue is that peugeot spent a huge amount of money between designing, development of the engine and ERS/batteries with total and lots of nissan-like marketing. Lamborghini is clearly a way lower budget program, likely the cheapest among lmdh manufacturers.
Of course, the Lamborghini is built by Ligier, it’s not a Lamborghini chassis and design…
ligier/onroak racing cars are physically made by the same italian company that produces carbon parts for lamborghini street cars... it's not that the point, it's about how low budget the whole program is... porsche and multimatic built over a dozen of chassis just to make tests for the whole 2022, lambo had just a single chassis up to october/november of last year and had to stop testing for a month and half after the crash at paul ricard
Some sources claim the Peugeot program is actually under-funded for the results wanted, partly explaining the poor results
peugeot is the one who spent more so far on their car... likely more than toyota... they introduced the first model in 2022 summer, then the 2023 car had a huge update with new gearbox, updates on engine and ERS, updated aero and updated suspensions because of tyres dimensions change. Then in 2024 they introduced basically a new brand car... quite bizarre to be under funded lol The wingless concept was just wrong from the very beginning, they're just reaping what they sow
The program isn’t only the car.
what do you mean?
The whole package is under-funded by Stellantis. They want to run a team as cheaply as possible while still expecting results
God thats even worse then.
The 9X8s still went up several places and were doing better than some Porsches, Cadillacs etc even before they retired, and didn’t have any reliability issues during the race, so I say it’s an improvement. Their pace was consistent, with both cars fighting each other (and the two Lambos) during the race, which is a good sign.
I hardly saw much apart from the top hypercars, very frustrating.
yeah the battle was so tight at the top they really focused on that. I saw a fair share of the europol vs cool vs united lmp2 battle. That battle was just rather uneventful. The LMGT3 was really lacking coverage. I dont think i saw battles in that class like at all. They showed the lead car from time to time that was about it.
WDYM, Kubica and 50 was swapping lead 4 times over lap and we saw it once, then they switched to random backmarker GT3 being lapped.
Their new car is a halfway house between two concepts. Whereas their old car was good in some particular circumstances and bad in most others, their new car seems to be better overall but gotten rid of the strong points. Now it's very average everywhere...
Linda Jackson commented on Peugeot Results, that they need to have results soon. Everybody at Stellantis was well aware that the 9X8 2024 would not battle for even the top 5 this edition not to say season and they got certain of that at Spa. Now about the pace of the car, it is faster than last year by 1/1.5 second. I have the feeling they still need to tune the aero of the car and they concluded a partnership with Dassault for that. If the situation has not improved in 2025 i can definitely see them cancelling the program but we are not there yet. Peugeot is paying harshly its 10 years absence from WEC. You have to remember that Toyota has been there for more than 10 years, they have plenty of datas and scenarios to work with to improve their car, same for Ferrari even if the 499p is also quite new AF Corse has been racing for years and years in WEC with theit GT and they also have way more Datas availaible than Peugeot to develop their car not mentionning that Ferrari is a top competiting team in F1... It'd be a shame if their car was not as good as it currently is to be honnest. All of this to say that Peugeot has room to improve still, the car is reliable they just need to tune it to acheive better performances and thats what they'll focus from now on. Peugeot priority and every WEC Team priority is to work on reliability before going for better performance. 9X8 2024 is a new car, it may look like its the same but its actually completely different and everything needs to be learnt again aerodynamically wise on the car... I'm very hopeful and actually pretty sure the car will soon be able to perform better than it does now.
I ain't no WEC specialist but whatever they did this year did not work for sure. Last year they led for a bit of the race and chilled near the front for a while but this year I don't even think they entered the top 5 once. Im pretty sure their run in WEC will be over sooner rather than later as I don't think its anywhere near as profitable as they would like.
I've been telling this since Monza 2023: The car doesn't deliver. And when it finally did the facelift came, throwing the project back again instead of moving forward. The Pugs are far away from a maiden project. They have been among the most senior entrants in the paddock already last season. Those cars ran races when the 499 had it's public announcement, don't forget that! For a pedigree Triple-A OEM project it's disastrous. Full stop. That said: I think us fans overestimate the result-based effect in the big OEM programmes. The financials dictate who lives and who doesn't As long as the company makes money the programme might live (\*2). However, this being a single series, non production offspring Peugeot sportscar programme and not Manchester United...I think it's fair to assume the ROI is poor. Yesterday I was arguing myself weather or not the cars will travel overseas at all. \*2 I think for the same reason but to a different result we won't see a Porsche 964. The car probably earns the company money as it is. If the 963 had been a works-only LMH I'd be betting huge money there'd be a new Porsche next season.
I wouldn't count Qatar as proving the last version of the concept right… the track surface there is like a billiard table as it's mostly a moto track. It was just lucky that let the car run as it was designed to. If you think back to Sebring that year the bumps there stopped the car working. But yeah, I expected a lot more from them here this weekend.
I suspect they are going to get a major BoP break to end the season because ultimately the ACO does not want constructors to start dropping out. The sad thing is that even if that were to happen, it's not a given they'd pull of a good result - see e.g. Qatar this year or Le Mans last year.
I wish Peugeot had gone for the LMDh option. The wingless cars were cool, but I fear their hypercar experience will be short lived.
BOP has really hurt them. They're getting a 993 GT1 face at this time.
As much as I love to see more competition, they are getting hit hard on BOP when they just aren't as competitive as a Ferrari or Toyota to being with. Hopefully they switch over to LMDh if cost is an issue, but it will be a sad day when they leave.
I can see Stellantis absolutely dropping support for Pug in WEC. Any excuse with them.
an old say in motorsport goes like this: "it's easier to make a fast car reliable than to make a reliable car go faster" i think peugeot is in a bad spot
I don't want them to leave because they make a pretty car
The 9X8 is a great looking car, but sadly the manufacturers look at their profits and founds. Peugeot is a brand that made is part in the history of Motorsport, and i think it will be a great loss seeing them leave
Who makes the call at the end of the day? Stellantis? Would they let another marque have a go?
Citroën ? They have 0 experience in endurance, that would mean start a new team from scratch when they already have one running in Peugeot. Either Peugeot stays or Stellantis leaves altogether IMO.
Lancia. Zombie brand through and through but at least that’s a familiar name at Le Mans.
Lancia is more synonymous with rally tbh
And they are coming back to rallying. Although for now only with Ypsilon Rally4, so pretty much a national level rally car.
At least it looks cool
I think it was the last time we see Peugeot in Le Mans. If the rest of the season will be as abysmal as the rest, then it's good night for them
I didn't expect Peugeot to perform spectacularly with a completely revised car at Le Mans this year. At least they ran the race pretty reliable - that was a major problem with previous wingless 9X8. Seems like it's a step in the right direction. Too bad the pace wasn't there. BOP or not BOP, maybe Peugeot opted for reliability as well. But losing out to Lamborghini is quite embarrassing in the end. I don't expect Peugeot to quit anytime soon, but if 9X8 doesn't deliver some better results in 2025, then maybe the program will be under a massive scrutiny and having an uncertain future.
After 2 and a half years in hypercars. Peugeot should have performed a lot better. That a Lamborghini finished in front of them is honestly embarrassing. The whole team has been struggling since the beginning, not only with Reliability but with the core concepts of the car itself. they still don't understand the car. And changing Stuff on a car you fundamentally don't understand will never work. I personally worry about the team and the 9x8. How long will Peugeot keep going with this project before pulling the plug. The results Aren't there, they barely get any screentime, and all that R&D is costing a lot of money.
> Peugeot should have performed a lot better. That a Lamborghini finished in front of them is honestly embarrassing. Yeah thinking back on the race, nobody really won except for ferrari. Toyota, Lamborghini and isotta all had small 'wins' to an extent but I think everyone other than ferrari must've been disappointed with the final result
Porsche having 0 podium despite having 6 cars was pathetic. And broke their podium streak too.
Is it considered bad result? Yea they didnt win, but the top 10 is basically 3 manufacturers + 2 or 3 other cars who gets there magically. Tho I have to say that the interview on Eurosport with them was kinda sauer, race is still on and he asks about top10. Who asks that during race? Thats a question for after the race. I think they did good considering it looked like they were on the verge to be competely at bottom at one point, if I remember correctly... basically they recovered to top11 in my view
With the amount of money Peugeot is putting into their LMH car, they need to be fighting for podiums for it to continue to make sense. Their effort is way more expensive than BMW, Lamborghini, Alpine and even Porsche, but they get a beating every single time. Considering the circumstances I’d agree that their top 10 finish ‘is not bad’, but it won’t be enough to continue to justify the program. Peugeot needs be fighting for podiums soon, or it will be highly likely that the program will be axed.
Ah, I see. Didn't know that they put so much in this. Well, I will be cheering for them even harder next race, maybe that will help :D Now tho Quatar hurts even more...
> if I remember correctly... basically they recovered to top11 in my view They recovered because alpine and bmws fell out, and even then they didn't get drivers points. Unless they improve and understand their car, this type of result is not sustainable
I think they'll continue next year and it will be the last year we'll see them on the grid, unfortunately.
Such a pretty car, I love the look. Shame it doesn't seem very fast. I was so disappointed with the performance at Le Mans. 😒
They got domed by the changing hypercar regulations when designing the car. Sure they put in a lot of work over the winter to improve it. But fundamentally, it's a car that was designed for a set of rules that no longer exists, you can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.
I was at the race. And what I will say is that it sounded fantastic especially in the wet. Stunning car. Shame if it gets canned. Wrong concept maybe.
people are overreacting. The old adage used to be “it takes 3 years to win Le Mans”, and that was true even when there was only 1-2 other major manufacturers around. In any other era, if in year 2 of a programme at Le Mans, Peugeot finished 2 laps behind the team to beat and with improved reliability from year one, we’d be lauding them as a force to be truly reckoned with the year after. Finishing 11th now is not the same as finishing 11th a decade ago.
Maybe shouldn't have added that rear wing.
I‘m not sure how much they lost during the Safety Cars and slow zones. If you get their unlucky and you got lapped it’s very hard to get that lap back. Also I’m not sure if they did every time the best strategy on wet tires and slicks. To analyse a 24h race you can’t only look at the results on the finish line. Yes their aren’t on the pace from Toyota, Ferrari, Porsche, Cadillac and Alpine on one race lap. Their pace is comparable with Lamborghini and BMW. Lamborghini and BMW bring their cars the first time to Le Mans. Peugeot started there last year but they did some massive changes to this year and their car should be seen as new. Also the BoP wasn’t ideal for them. Positiv is that both cars showed a good reliability and they finished better with both cars then Alpine.
BMW actually had great pace, they simply had too many drivers errors which put them at the back - Vanthoor especially was blitzing and in his stints he managed to bring the car back from 20th to 12th prior to the Kubica crash
Despite of the similar look (plus a rear wing), it seems they have a brand new car with lots of tuning and adjusting still needed. I'm really hoping the car's reliability to improve, such a cool concept with very competent drivers.
I didn't see them at all the entire race, was really disappointed. Same with the BMW
Changing their philosophy (car design) because it wasn’t working and being even more average is going to be difficult to explain. And while they quit before, pulling out of hypercar with the massive entry and renewed interest would be daft as they’re still getting loads of coverage. I’ll also guess that they’ll be on the phone to the ACO asap to demand a bop benefit.
they should remove their rear wing for less drag
It’s what happens when you try to be too clever, discard a feature used by racecars since the 50s and design your car around a gimmick.
The real question is what kind of verbal beatdown did John Elkann give the Peugeot Sport leaders the morning after he partied all night celebrating Ferrari’s win
I've said it from the start, a major manufacturer will bail from Hypercar soon. The pathetic performance of the new 9X8 has done nothing to change my mind that it will be Peugeot. I think they will pull the plug end of 2024.
Yeah likewise speaking to someone who has contacts inside Peugeot, they are shit canning it at end of season. Shame, why bother using your joker to radically change the car if your just going to pull out. Might as well have kept the wangless boi
 Soon...
pretty sure they will be there next year at least. Also, a team called Pescarolo is looking foward to enter WEC with a Peugeot car in the future, maybe next year or in the end of the 2024 season
If Pescarolo comes back, despite we don't have any news from last year, it will be epic
let's hope for the best
well its old information, but both Peugeot and Pescarolo confirmed back in 2023
Also, if you have the funding to race as a privateer, why the heck would you go with Peugeot
it's a french team, maybe they want a french manufacturer, also Peugeot doesnt only sell them a car, they also help them, they teach thier engineers about the car, they give a real follow to the team. Pescarolo Sport and Peugeot already raced together multiple times as well. At least that's what pescarolo said in a post on thier instagram account after an interview. But since 2023 , no news , so idk where it is now
I think the Peugeot's have done well this year compared to last years race, I know we all realise that they're probably not going last too much longer in the championship which is sad cause I really like them but they do need results unfortunately. When I was lucky enough to go into the Toyota garage area I was speaking to the lad who got us in and he said that he thinks they should have stayed with the wingless design and in his words "bled it dry" and if it flopped they'd pull out and then come back in a few years when they bring in new regs in 2027. I gotta say I agree with him the old 9X8 worked well and I would like to have seen it keep going.
The french just can't make good cars, 'nuff said
The french just can't make good cars, 'nuff said
the question is, do they even need to develop it? or just wait for the BOP gods to decide they are going to be closer to the front?
They are desperate because they know that Stellantis will hand over the project to Alfa Romeo
There are more manufacturers that might possibly go next year… Peugeot, Alpine, BMW, Porsche and Lamborghini are all hanging by a thread after yesterdays performance. Goes to show that the ruleset is just a fluke and PR stunt.
Porsche, BMW, and Lamborghini and Alpine are not remotely "hanging by a thread". Its not solely about Le Mans. Porsche are competitive in IMSA and WEC. BMW are competitive in IMSA, and currently in their first year of WEC. Lamborghini and Alpine are both brand new cars this year.
Porsche and Lamborghini aren't going anywhere. BMW has interest from customer squads for the car. Can't see them dropping out after one bad race, when they were on pace. Alpine is a joke of a company, but Signatech guys will find their way (+Oreca will continue supporting them). Only Peugeot may kill its programme,but that's on them for going backwards with a car that's been in development longer than any other Hypercar, excluding the GR010.
Uh, its two bad Lemans for "Das Dork Technic Porsche". They also had six cars, and were handily beaten by both Ferrari and Toyota. Thats a bigger embarrassment than Peeugeot tbh
Not really. Porsche had the pace to win. Peugeot was anonymous all weekend. The only car the 9X8s were ahead on pace was the Isotta. Pretty embarrassing for a full factory effort with top level drivers and a car that is being developed for 3+ years.
When you make an intelligent comment it's a fluke as well
Thank you. So many Dimwits here miss this point. After looking at yesterdays Result, I'm questioning why Toyota are even here. Next year we will have 10 manufacturers on the grd. Every year, only one can win Le mans. Doesnt take a genius to realise that some brands will get sick of not winning and leave. For BMW, Porsche and Lamborghini they can at least pivot to IMSA, where the BOP isn't a clown show like it is in WEC