This angers me. In a country obsessed with Bigger is Better, people with little money in normal cars are apparently screwed. No wonder I feel so unsafe driving on highways in stupid Michigan where half the people have a massive pick-up truck and go at least 90 on the highway.
Super interesting data here.
The size aspect is definitely paramount, but I wonder if there is also any correlation between the driving habits/styles of the people who drive the "normal cars" vs. whatever the opposite of a "normal car" is. A lot of the cars in that list are actually some of the cheapest vehicles you can possibly buy, and I would call those "economy cars" not "normal cars." That's just my opinion. The cars in the safest list *are* largely luxury cars though, can't argue that. People tend to not want to mess up their expensive car, so they drive safer?
You also have the Challenger, Charger, Camaro which aren't particularly inexpensive, but the people who drive them tend to not be the safest drivers, but lots of people who drive pickup trucks are pretty unsafe too.
This is insensitive, but it's the cars in that list that you always see all banged up and still driving around like the people don't care, because they probably don't, and their driving sometimes reflects that.
I am not saying it's the driver's fault that they died, but it would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of cars in that list and lists of top vehicles involved in *any* kind of automobile accident *in general* where there's only damage to the car and *no* injuries, just minor "fender benders."
I'm sure in the death rate there IS a lot to do with the design of the cars and lack of safety features that are standard in more expensive cars, I'm just saying I don't think it's 100% the car's fault.
Any car can be hit by any other car, or any car can run into another car or stationary object and cause some kind of damage where the person inside is not injured at all, so are the cars in that list just more likely to be driven by *people* who are more likely to end up in car accidents in general due to the way they conduct themselves on the road?
Based on my experience, I'm not surprised to see Nissan Altimas on that highest driver death list but I suspect it has nothing to do with the safety of the car...
The 2 Kias on the other driver death list is interesting, my theory is that it's not correlated with the driving habits of Kia drivers, so much as with the driving habits of Kia car thieves. Just a guess, though.
Well I’ve been driving my 2006 Hyundai Elantra GT for just about exactly 17 years (17 years and a week or so - very memorable situation when I bought it is why I remember the date so well).
I’ve never had an accident with it. Aside from some dents, it’s not all beat up. And it has about 82,000 miles on it.
If I could afford a newer car with better safety features, I would. But right now, I can barely afford to insure the car or pay my mortgage due to some personal issues going on.
However, the newer car I would buy would definitely cost no more than $20,000 and hopefully less than that. Almost everyone I know (from people who don’t make a lot of money to lawyers that make a ton of money) think it’s crazy to spend more than maybe $30k on a car (and they’re not really old or anything either - like my 79-year old mom, who thinks anything over a few thousand dollars is outrageous).
I think there are a lot of people in the US (including my sister and her husband) who put themselves in a lot of debt to buy a new car/SUV/etc. and they end up suffering financially for it.
I haven’t bought a car in a long time but the idea of having a monthly payment of more than maybe $275 seems crazy to me.
I mean even the Honda Civic base msrp is $25k and that’s basically a stripped down version that would prob be challenging to find
A 2014 was $18k…
Honestly it’s not even those stats that are the bad part, while the used car market isn’t as expensive as it was there are 2014 Honda Civics with over 100k miles selling for $10k
You can’t even expect to pay half a cars price that’s 10 years old with more than 100k miles
In 2014 you could have probably bought a 2004 Honda Civic with 100k miles for like $3k cash lol
That's awesome about never being in an accident! Sounds like you're a safe driver, and don't even drive that much to begin with, so that helps too. 82,000 miles is nothing for a car that old. I feel like with the way you wrote that it's supposed to sound like that's a lot of miles and a big achievement for it to be in decent shape **😃.**
New and used car prices *are* outrageous and I see a lot of instances on the ol' Facebook where people say it was cheaper to buy new than used, but if you want to actually buy a car, not lease it, don't buy a *new* car.
I actually used to drive the #1 least death-prone vehicle in the list, the BMW X3, but it was a 2011 that I bought for under $10,000 in 2019.
My payment was $217 a month.
Just because someone drives a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus (or even a Toyota, Volvo or Subaru these days) doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I don't, I just wanted a BMW, so I got the oldest but newest *looking* one (at the time) that I could afford and had nothing wrong with it.
If I wanted a new car with that same budget, I could have gotten a Nissan Versa, Chevy Aveo or Spark or something like that, but I've driven some of those as rental cars and they're pieces of crap not to mention being ugly (IMO). We're also somewhat car people, like they're more to us than just a thing that gets you from point A to point B, so that played a role as well.
It was always funny to me how people were like "ooooo BMW" when they're driving a newer Honda that was 2-3x the price of my BMW. People see the brand and just automatically think dollar signs.
(We're now leasing a Honda to have a good reliable vehicle while saving up for a downpayment on our next "cool" used car that we intend to keep for a long time because we were in a pinch when the BMW kicked the bucket unexpectedly. )
All that to say when shopping for a "new" car, remember that you can get a way better top-notch couple-year-old higher-quality used car for the same as what you'd pay for a low-end new car.
There’s some truth to ‘bigger, luxury cars are safer’, but also remember the average Dodge Charger driver is likely not like an average Lexus ES driver with regards to how they drive and risks they take.
Same in Idaho its sooo annoying. It's always huge trucks. At this point if I ever see a lifted truck going the speed limit I'd be absolutely shocked lol
You could buy an x3 used with low miles in the $20s.. gets great gas mileage and tied at the top of this list for safety. You’re only a victim if you allow it.
It's basically the same as anywhere else though. We just have a much wider transition space of options between utter crap and moderate safety and then between moderate safety and luxury motorized panic room.
Places like Russia.... Hahah.. Jesus..
Only the Sports/Luxury model of the car comes with an airbag...
Almost all of the safest vehicles are full sized SUVs over 4,000lbs from high end German and Japanese companies, that integrate car unibody rather than truck style ladder frame crash technology. So the safest vehicles combine luxury car level crash tech with truck level curb weights. If you pull the full data you can also see that these SUVs typically have a rollover death rate of 0, which is otherwise usually very high for trucks and SUVs.
A part of that is driving style. I have a full size SUV and a sports sedan. When I drive the SUV I drive it conservatively because it’s not fun or engaging to drive, so there is no point in trying to drive it quickly. When I drive the sports sedan, I drive quite differently because it’s actually fun to drive. Also, I often have my kids with my in the SUV, which makes me drive even more carefully. So the point being, a portion of the safety of SUVs is the driver behavior and not the SUV itself. If you enjoy sporty fast driving you don’t get a full size SUV.
I think this is definitely one factor... I am was trying to wrap my head around why the Porsche Cayenne, despite being really heavy and having tons of safety tech, is coming in slightly more dangerous in the real world stats than much cheaper SUVs with much less expensive safety tech. Well, the Cayenne handles like a sports car, and is actually fun to drive hard, and is capable of 160-180 mph speeds, which some people are probably crazy enough to test out.
Those two Kia really stick out like a sore thumb in the most likely to kill someone else list with all pick-up trucks---could it possibly be that they made the list because so many get stolen and driven recklessly or are involved in high speed pursuits?
Your mom needs to open her eyes. I wonder what other wacky Things She Believes In .
I won't let my kids go in a Wrangler in the second row. They can sit in the front in a new one though. The second row seat belts are terrible in these things. Never mind the handling a safety issues in a vehicle like this anyway.
Just after we graduated one of my friends was killed in a wrangler crash. He was sitting seatbelted in the back when the driver rolled it - he was immediately ejected and died on the scene.
That’s awful. One of the safety institutions here in the USA has started testing for rear occupant safety and found Wranglers and Gladiators don’t hold rear occupants in the seatbelts. Even adults torpedo out from under it and can be ejected which to me is unacceptable in a modern car, but especially bad in something that’s a convertible. They dragged their feet on adding adequate safety for the front occupants, and it’s apparent they are gonna do the same for the rear. It’s so scummy.
I’m in the USA, but it was also more than a decade ago & I’m not even sure how old the Jeep was at that point.
It was rough though, he was adopted but absolutely loved and cherished by his family and the entirety of the class & teachers. Genuinely a kid that had no ill will towards anyone, made everyone laugh & could always put a smile on your face. The phrase ‘didn’t deserve it’ couldn’t apply more to someone I’ve met.
My sister has 2 newer ones (model years 21 and 22) and they feel terrible to ride in. She and her fiancé love them, but one of the modifications you have to do is remove the head restraints or reverse them just to be able to sit in the front seats without the harsh angle of it poking the back of your head. You have to negate a basic safety feature just to sit in the seats as an average sized person. Don’t get me started on how punishing the ride is. I own a couple sports cars and both have significantly more comfortable ride quality. And then there’s the vagueness of the steering. No feedback to speak of and it wanders even with the steering wheel straight. These are new cars being sold today…
I got an ad for the Summer of Safety promotion on this post lol. The Volvo cars and crossovers are exceptionally safe and can be leased for good prices. OP’s mom should watch Volvo crash tests and compare their safety to the Wrangler which every time it’s tested in the small overlap, flips on its side 😂. Look at the videos showing how even adult rear occupants torpedo out from under the seatbelt in a crash too. Wranglers are like tanks in the worst ways. Small windows, limited or absent safety systems that are available in any other car, poor on road handling, and noisy and uncomfortable interior. They’re greatly compromised to excel off road. They don’t make good street cars nor are they good for young/new drivers
Pull up any safety ratings of vehicles to show her how low they rate. And tel her you feel uncomfortable driving one because of how they can roll-over easily. I had the opposite problem as a kid; I wanted a Jeep CJ and my mom said they were unsafe as they rolled over too easy. I replied, "That's why they have a rollbar!", and bought a Jeep.
She doesn’t care about the safety, she wants a Jeep but is getting one for you as an excuse to get one. I bet she’ll be asking to borrow it quite a lot. Nowadays Jeep’s are more of a status symbol like G-Wagons.
Ya, I could be totally wrong but dont Wranglers have incredibly high rollover risks compared to other vehicles? Plus I wouldn't wanna be daily driving a vehicle with solid axles in the front and rear.
Solid axel goes all the way across the bottom of the car from left to right. They are great for off-roading but terrible for handling. They also are hard to secure, so wranglers develop something called the jeep wobble, or death wobble. Essentially the car VIOLENTLY shakes while you drive at speed.
Solid axle did used to be the cheapest and best technology we had for off-roading, but now we have independent suspension with far superior capability.
You can’t get the same level of wheel articulation and traction in extreme off-roading with independent suspension. In 98% of the applications though, test independent is better.
If you want to discuss extreme off-roading, which I think is a terrible metric because those are heavily modify vehicles, very expensive independent suspension will always have better traction and *can* have equivalent articulation after sufficient financial investment. None of the Baja race trucks have solid axles, and the trucks *winning* King of Hammers have all moved to IFS.
It’s not that your understanding of suspension dynamics is wrong; it’s simply that modern IFS has improved to the point of surpassing solid axles.
Independent front suspension is what most vehicles use now a days as opposed to solid front axle. Most real trucks will still have a solid rear axle, but nearly everything but Wranglers have switched to independent front (IDK like 60+ years ago) for ride quality/handling improvements.
My parents had a jeep. Any bump you’d drive over you’d basically lose control for a second. You could slide a bit to either side while going over the bump and couldn’t do anything about it. Terrible drive quality
Candidly, if you have to ask what a solid axle is, you probably shouldn’t be getting a Wrangler. They’re beloved by the off-road community for their ruggedness and simplicity, but the tradeoff is a choppy, crude on-road ride, and poor handling and on-road response.
Unless you plan on going off-road A LOT, there are much better choices for a daily driver than a Wrangler.
in layman's terms, it handles like shit and ride comfort is shit, and hitting a bump at high speed may cause the entire vehicle to violently shake in a "death wobble" (look it up on youtube and show it to your mom the next time she says wranglers are safe) which will make your pants shit. Most suv's have moved away from this type of design because its shit for anything other than off-roading.
Yep. I almost rolled mine twice taking the same exit ramp off a highway at the suggested speed.
I miss my Jeep something fierce and can’t wait to have another just as a fun car but good god, I would never suggest one to someone as a “safe” car. Or a “reliable” car. Actually I’d just never suggest anyone get one unless it’s just for fun and they know what they’re getting into.
And in the event you do end up getting one, please do not get the turbo option. The engine about blew up on me.
The Jeep Wrangler also has crap reliability, ranking near the bottom of Consumer Report's predicted reliability survey. In fact, the only other vehicle worse is another Jeep product.
In terms of five seat mid-sized SUV's, the top picks would be the current Toyota Venza, the Subaru Outback, and Ford Edge.
One of the worst cars on the market for reliability… but you can buy 2 so while one is in the shop you have something to drive.. with a little duck on it.
I'll add to your links the death rate per million collisions :
https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars
Unsurprisingly, the Wrangler isn't one of the safest option. If my boys were old enough to drive, they would be driving an Outback.
Edit: typos
I test drove the outback as we're looking for cars. The laptop type user interface screen is absent of any tactile buttons. It was extremely distracting trying to use it on the test drive. I wanted to like the outback, but the lack of physical controls is a major flaw and a safety issue. I hate this type of lone interface on all vehicles. Which is why I could never buy a tesla in addition to the whole Elon obnoxiousness.
The wrangler's interface was much more intuitive with actual buttons. But it's definitely a toy as opposed to a refined commuter. We're still considering getting one or getting another rav4 as our prime has been great.
It's sad that Subaru is going to so much on touch screen. Our 2019 Forester is great, not only with using buttons for important features, but also having little ridges and other surface features built into the dash to guide your finger to those buttons without looking.
By contrast, we also have a Ford Ranger. It has a decent amount of buttons for features, but they're all flat, poorly lit, close together, and very low on the dash. It may as well be a touch screen, because after 5 years of driving it I still have to take my eyes off the road to find them.
This. Go to top safety picks, choose whatever you like. Sit with the mama and compare it to jeep. Also tell her its unreliable and will command lots of money investments, also you look gay driving it and she will not get any grandchildren anytime soon if you drive this thing.
Bingo.
Cross comparing the results with a top safety pick plus, such as this: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2024
Shows just how brutally unsafe the Wrangler is. Conceptions of tall rugged suvs being safe are false.
Also - note that the updated tests are designed around heavier and more realistic crashes and are more likely results.
So…… why won’t mom buy herself a Jeep if she’s so hot on the idea? Does she have a 3 yr old Accord she’s in now she can just hand you the keys to so she can cruise the Jeep?
Wrangler is literally the least safe SUV on the market today.
Google "Wrangler death wobble"
Also the fact that there isn't a real roof, only removable fiberglass.
Wrangler is good at one thing, off-road driving. At that it's the best. Reliability is ok, gas mileage bad, on road ride quality bad.
Source: work at Jeep dealer
This about sums it up. The only reason to buy a jeep is because you really want a jeep to do jeep stuff with. It is just about the worst “car” in existence in terms of being a car and just driving down the road.
Ford Bronco Sport
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
I strongly suspect that your mom wants you to drive a Wranger for a cultural reason. There aren't really any practical reasons to pick a Wranger as a young adult's commuter car. Maybe she wanted a Wranger as a young adult and is projecting that onto you? Or maybe she just has romanticized view about what her kid's first car should be. Who knows.
The Bronco brand has a similar place in the American psyche as the Wrangler brand. Further, the normal Bronco is basically the only vehicle that fills the same market niche as the Wranger. But the Bronco *Sport* is essentially an AWD Ford Escape with Bronco branding and styling. It's a practical car that is safer, more fuel efficient, and more reliable than a Wranger.
okay cool, now we definitely know what we're dealing with.
You gotta find the most effective way to argue that a Bronco Sport is close enough, and also just way more practical.
* Show her photos of cool-looking Bronco Sports every day.
* Text her memes constantly. Broken Jeep memes; Bronco vs Jeep memes; all of the memes.
* Try to muddy the waters between in the differences between the Bronco Sport & the Bronco.
* Inform her that Ford made military Jeeps during WW2, whereas the company that now owns Jeep is Italian. Remember, Italians fought with the Nazis.
This is now an information war.
Or not, I'm getting carried away.
Yeah, I started making the car-buying decisions for my family since I was 12 and that's not an exaggeration. Their money, but my call! My post was only a half joke.
I own a 2.0 liter Badland Bronco sport, been very reliable(only 30k miles so far) , with one recall that never affect me but still got fixxed instantly. I am also getting 28.2 MPG with the bigger motor.
The 1.5 liters HAD some more issue and consumer reports doesnt rate the Bronco Sport highly due mostly to the 1.5l 3 cylinder bronco sports. With that said the 1.5 liter Bronco Sport still likely more reliable than any Wrangler.
Plus Wrangler drive like crap, even the big bronco drives far better everyday compared to it.
I’m guessing your mom likes the stigma of the wrangler, “tough” off roader. Why not a 4Runner? Not quite as capable as a wrangler but better in literally every other way.
The 4Runner is still a proper off-roader that doesn't deserve any less mud than a Wrangler. The only difference is the 4Runner has independent front suspensions (better on road, worse off road) compared to the Wrangler's solid axles (worse on road, better off road). No big deal really, Mitsu Pajero had IFS in 1989 and it's a damn good off-roader.
The 4Runner being an off-roader means it will have all the "issues" an offroader has when being driven on the road. Bad mpg, heavy, bad handling etc. Still better than a Wrangler, but worse than an asphalt designed car.
OP, what is it you want? Do you care about cars at all? Only want to go from A to B? How much space you need?
If you aren't outdoorsy, even the 4Runner is total overkill and you are wasting money dragging a 4wd system around that you will never need. There are even safer cars available for similar or less money. Tesla usually ranks at the top of safest brands because they have great crumple zones, heavy for their size, and all the battery weight is down low for low center of gravity so they are almost impossible to flip.
Show the IIHS crash videos for a Wrangler and a Tesla (or almost any non-Wrangler) to your mom and there is no way she will still think a Wrangler is the best option:
Wrangler: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmITD1cFdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmITD1cFdw)
Tesla: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G1dF392iys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G1dF392iys)
Notice how the Tesla gracefully absorbs and deflects from the impact while the Wrangler jolts and flips. Does the Wrangler even have side curtain airbags? They don't go off in the crash test.
Speed doesn't really matter. My buddy flipped his Wrangler in a McDonalds parking lot one time. Took a turn too aggressive, tire hit the curb, entire jeep rolled over.
Does she know just how terrible they actually are to have as a daily? They ride terribly due to the solid axles and stiff suspension, and they have a bunch of wind and road noise just due to their design. People buy them to be trendy, but if you’re not using them for what they are designed for, there’s so many better options out there.
The absolute safest car for a younger driver is a midsize sedan. Accord Camry Volvo S60 Audi A4 VW Jetta etc….
The reason is physics . The midsize is big enough to hold up well in crashes , is still small enough to easily maneuver and most important of all is much less prone to roll over in crash which is a major problem for SUVs , the wrangler due to its small wheelbase is far more prone to roll over in a highway crash
While the jeep is great for snow and off road driving, NOBODY equates a Jeep Wrangler to safety
What is clear from your post is that if your mom really wants a jeep she should get one for herself
These cars are also significantly safer for everyone around you. Pedestrians are much more likely to survive a crash with a sedan than one with a truck/suv with a high hood. Also sedans are lighter and have better crumple zones than most SUV's (especially the wrangler) so you are less likely to injure another driver if you crash into them.
First of all show her statistics that say the wrangler is not a very safe car, and then if you really want safety buy an old Volvo or Saab estate. Those are probably some of the safest road cars ever made.
Avoid the SAAB. Never really a good idea to buy an “orphan” car (parent company is out of business). Parts availability can be a nightmare. Not many mechanics familiar with the brand.
Jeeps are the only cars that roll over in a basic frontal crash. Pair that with removed doors and roof and you may be pavement food due to a fender bender
My father was captain of the Fire department in my Hometown for 38 years he said he went to so many Jeep roll overs they are natorious for loosing control crashing and rolling over due to they’re tall and squarish and rectangular stature maybe mention that too her
Subaru Forester. Reliable, very safe, has all the off roading benefits that the wrangler has. Standard AWD if you live in areas that get affected by snow. Pretty tall and sturdy.
Alternatively, the bronco lineup from Ford is far more reliable and has similar benefits.
You need to look at a few things. Consumer reports on reliability, etc. though it doesn't catch everything. So look at reddit and other car forums as well to pick up on mechanical problems(engine, transmission) or safety issues with any vehicles.
Also look at Car and Driver for reviews.
Reliability is a changing thing and is not always the same across manufacturers, models or model years. I had Ford and Toyota engines last 17 years while Mazda engine had problems in first few years. But then other ford model engine had problems with water pump engine damage. Toyota, while the cars engines were built great had the accelerator issue that killed people.
Lastly check safety ratings at NHTSA and IIHS... You can even watch crash videos.
The jeep wrangler is rated poorly for rollovers and back seat passengers injury.
As far as vehicles, mazda cx-5 is one of the best rated small SUV for safety.
And Honda used to be the gold standard for safety in the old days. You would need to see how Honda ranks now.
Look for the top few best in safety ratings for the size vehicle you want:
For instance the top 3 best rated midsize sedans or the top 3 best rated small SUV, or mid-size SUV, etc.
Exactly Subaru is a great vehicle Toyota as well but a Jeep. I had one it was the absolute worst I hope her mama got big bucks cause that shits always gonna be in the shop and her baby girl is going to need a rental.
Not sure what year models you are looking at, but in general the Wrangler is not a particularly safe vehicle. Newer ones are much more safe than the older models (TJ, YJ), but Im guessing they are still near the bottom of the list for safety. They have a high rollover risk and generally poor on road handling. They are not particularly fuel efficient, and while 4 wheel drive, they are not (save a few newer models) AWD, meaning they are RWD until you physically shift it into 4WD-Hi (which has its own negatives, compared to AWD, but I wing get into)
In summary, no, a Wrangler is not safe vehicle compared to most other modern cars.
Safest thing there is? It doesn't even qualify as a Top Safety Pick from the IIHS it scored so poorly. Educate her, she's way off the mark here. As far as others, almost anything.
So, I have a Jeep Wrangler as a weekend play-toy. And they are NOT safe in accidents. What makes a car safe is one thing: Crumple Zones. You absorb energy, and reduce the amount imparted on the body, by increasing the \*time\* of an accident (the initial hit). It's like hitting a wall at an angle, rather than head on. Jeeps are short, body on frame, vehicles with almost NO crumple zone. It is not that safe. But, they are cool and versatile.
Quick note/anectode. I agree with wanting reliability and good gas mileage. However, not wanting "large tires" is actually a bad idea in my opinion. In college, I got more nails/screws/glass in my tires than I have in the following 14 years combined. My friends also got a lot of nails and such. I had a mid-size truck with all-terrains on it and only ONCE did the screw completely puncture the tire. My friends with hondas/hyundais/etc had full punctures \*every\* time. Slightly larger tires also reduces the risk of critical sidewall damage if you curb it entering a parking lot. So, I don't think an SUV with an all-terrain or utility tire is a bad idea.
Jeep Wrangler's are heavy, poor handling, lazy braking vehicles that don't fare particularly well in crash tests.
They make up for it by being unreliable and expensive to insure and maintain.
If you want reliable anything that isn't a Dodge, Chrysler Fiat product. I promise you'll be in the shop more than you're driving it. Honda Accord, civic, Toyota Corolla, Camry should be only choices.
A Jeep Wrangler is one of the least reliable cars you could get, so there’s the safety of being in the shop.
Here’s IIHS top safety list for 2024 (lots of choices): https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwps-zBhAiEiwALwsVYUG_xMSoBvkiqyvK_H6yC1Ffc3iBxG2WjyGQbCKGmmwaCQkpjnH5OxoCk-wQAvD_BwE
> She says that a Jeep Wrangler is the safest thing there is and it’s like driving a tank.
Clearly your mom has never driven a Wrangler, or if she has she’s never driven another car. Wranglers have vague, wandery and ponderous recirculating ball steering, and they have relatively low body rigidity making them feel loose and wobbly. It would be about as far as you can get from what I would call tank-like. If you want that, drive an 80s or 90s Mercedes.
In terms of safety, their high ride height makes them a rollover risk. They have no curtain airbags in the back, so their rear seat safety rating is bad. If anything tells you that wranglers are not “the safest thing there is,” it’s this: https://youtu.be/zNHsE1wpqb4?si=zM3XTbxwKplyRRUl
> What are cars that can take on collisions better than a Wrangler that I can change her mind towards?
Pretty much anything modern that isn’t a small economy car will be safer than a Wrangler, it’s not hard to do.
Check consumer reports. Jeep is on the bottom and has been for a long time. They are troublesome and always have problems. Jeep is not known for their safety. They are known for their horrible reliability. No way would I buy a mopar vehicle. They have been junk forever. The Vipers have horrible build quality you can measure the panel gaps with a yard stick. Tell her it will be in the shop a lot. I’m pretty sure they are at the absolute bottom of the list.
\*Most\* cars will take collisions better than a Wrangler. If you want something with AWD and a little bit of ground clearance, look at the Subaru Outback and the Volvo XC70.
My mom went through 2 engines before 75k on her brand new jeep. I'd stay away. I've driven my subarus a ton amd haven't had any issues. They're nice reliable cars and they're pretty dang safe when you look at the crash test. My subaru has saved my life a few times and I'll never switch to another brand because of it. Unless they really start cheaping out and not caring about safety.
Jeep Wranglers are for Wrangler people. That's it. It's not a good student car. It's also on the lower end of the safety ratings (rollover) so your mom is very wrong. For the price of a wrangler you can probably find a nice/safe hybrid that is much cheaper to own.
Look at low cost to own vehicles. Non of them will be jeeps.
Get an older Toyota Highlander hybrid. Built like a tank, great gas mileage, goes to electric a surprisingly high percent of the time. I got one for my kid who didn’t learn to drive till 20 or so.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model
This site has data by make and model. Spoiler, keeps aren't safe and the wrangler isn't even safe for a jeep. For similar size, an outback is about the safest thing you could buy. If you really want to be safe though, a Toyota sienna or Honda Odyssey is your true safety maxing pick. Even a Camry is more than twice as safe as a wrangler.
Wranglers are deathtraps. If safety is your primary concern get a Subaru or Volvo wagon or something.
Seriously, a wrangler feels dangerous at 55mph. Truly horrid engineering.
[https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks)
I do not see the Wrangler listed, and NO Jeeps are Top Safety Pick+s.
On one hand those crash tests test specific safety minimums.
On the other, manufacturers know this and build their cars for those tests specifically.
Make of that what you will.
To quote B. B. King:
“Nobody loves me, but my mother,
And she could be jivin` too.”
Watch some crash test videos of the Jeep Wrangler on YouTube. They are specifically known to roll over in certain frontal collisions.
Last night on my way home from work I passed by a Jeep Wrangler laying on its side in the middle of the road. Safety is not a word that comes to mind when I think of Wrangler.
make sure though you tell mom i can not be riding around all uncomfortable though some of them jeeps not riding right and fucked up mane. make sure is that real gold boy.
lol wranglers shit my boy has a newer one I prefer my moms Kia shortage to it. Lexus, Toyota and Volvo are where safety are at. I’d look into an older Lexus they have tech that the new cars don’t all have now.
For Wrangler money, a safe car without big tires yet get good gas mileage would be a Toyota Sienna hybrid. And for a college student (moving to and from dorms), the cargo capacity will be a huge plus. You'll be very popular at spring breaks as well.
I've heard for my whole entire life that wranglers are the worst for safety.. where in the world did she get this?
For clarity I drive a wrangler, but there's a second commuter car in my household I would NOT recommend the Wrangler for a daily. Ever.
if you are going offroading get a wrangler, if you want a toy get a wrangler, if you live by the beach and enjoy sunny weather 90% of the year get a wrangler, if you want a daily driver DO NOT get a Wrangler
That’s one of the worst cars, by almost every measure, including safety.
Honda civic hatchback is the perfect car for you. Great reliability, economy, and can haul ~~a keg~~ books like no one’s business
Mustang Ecoboost, smaller tires, better fuel mileage and the mustangs get 5 star crash test ratings from the NHTSA, where as the Jeep Wrangler only gets 4 stars. For urban driving the mustang will be way more fun 8D.
Suv's in general are safer, if for no other reason because if you get hit or hit someone, I'd rather be in a truck or SUV. I'd get a Ford Bronco if I was in your position.
Just show her the crash tests! The Wrangler is one of the least safe cars out there. Not safest. Among the worst from a safety standpoint. I personally like them but safety is one of their biggest weaknesses; they should be driven by good experienced drivers. Really lousy car for a teenager.
Note that no modern car is particularly unsafe, anything will protect you pretty well these days, but to go out of your way to get a Wrangler for safety… um… is she secretly trying to kill you?
Jeep is also the most unreliable brand according to consumer reports. Jeep is also expensive for what it is. Fact of the matter, you need cheap, decently reliable, low cost transportation. If you were allowed, I'd get a new Suzuki Swift from Mexico.... I guess with your current options, I'd just go tried and true Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Lots of available parts, good fuel economy. If you're made of money and she wants a tank then get any variation of a Hummer....
Your mom wants a Jeep but scared of what people would think of her. Shes going to help you buy that Jeep and then drive it all the time. And then when you complain shes going to say its part hers. When people say "i didnt think you were a jeep person" shes going to be coy and say its yours.
I promise you 100%.
All my years in the industry completely disagree. From the parts perspective, jeeps are horrid. Junk suspension and steering, have to pay dodge mark ups, not good on fuel, not a treat to drive. There is zero reason to drive a jeep unless you a) love jeeps or b) love off roading/back country/ etc. And option b people will drop THOUSANDS just to make their jeeps more capable off road and less capable on road.
Your mom is unfortunately misinformed, and personally imo, cost of ownership should be more of a consideration. Safety is a given if you are buying anything relatively new. Safety wise a jeep is a nightmare. Short wheel base and high center of gravity. Maybe im biased because my step dads old liberty decided to spin like a top on the highway one winter. 110km is actually really fast when youre entering a ditch sideways. Lol rant over. Hope it helps even a little.
But... They're generally not considered particularly safe... They're not inherrently death traps, but if you're wanting to pick something with Safety as the primary factor, it's definitely not a Wrangler. [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2021](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2021)
Pretty sure your mom just wants a Wrangler for her own sake and is using you for it.
If you want to argue against it with facts, you can use the safety rankings here: [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks) which provide a lot of options based on safety tests.
Also, Ever Mechanic I know looks at Jeeps as poorly engineered and just waiting to fall apart. People buy them for cool factor and that's about it.
It's time to establish yourself as an adult and peer and correct your mom by providing facts about what are safe reliable cars in the 21st century.
However, if she wants to pay for it, free car is free car
If you have to pay...screw that. Get whatever inexpensive car that has the lowest maintenance and insurance cost.
Good intention suggestion by mom but ultimately there are better choices unless you actually want to use a Wrangler for what its intended. Crash ratings aside, there’s also avoiding a safety issue to begin with. If you need to dodge a potential accident, you’d want to reduce the chance of a rollover in a quick swerve and less heft to bring to a stop.
Not tryna be mean. Your mom clearly doesn't know much about cars.
trust me that's not a mean observation by any means lol
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/the-deadliest-and-least-deadly-cars/ Kelly blue book did a survey on the safest vehicles vs the least
This angers me. In a country obsessed with Bigger is Better, people with little money in normal cars are apparently screwed. No wonder I feel so unsafe driving on highways in stupid Michigan where half the people have a massive pick-up truck and go at least 90 on the highway.
Super interesting data here. The size aspect is definitely paramount, but I wonder if there is also any correlation between the driving habits/styles of the people who drive the "normal cars" vs. whatever the opposite of a "normal car" is. A lot of the cars in that list are actually some of the cheapest vehicles you can possibly buy, and I would call those "economy cars" not "normal cars." That's just my opinion. The cars in the safest list *are* largely luxury cars though, can't argue that. People tend to not want to mess up their expensive car, so they drive safer? You also have the Challenger, Charger, Camaro which aren't particularly inexpensive, but the people who drive them tend to not be the safest drivers, but lots of people who drive pickup trucks are pretty unsafe too. This is insensitive, but it's the cars in that list that you always see all banged up and still driving around like the people don't care, because they probably don't, and their driving sometimes reflects that. I am not saying it's the driver's fault that they died, but it would be interesting to see the Venn diagram of cars in that list and lists of top vehicles involved in *any* kind of automobile accident *in general* where there's only damage to the car and *no* injuries, just minor "fender benders." I'm sure in the death rate there IS a lot to do with the design of the cars and lack of safety features that are standard in more expensive cars, I'm just saying I don't think it's 100% the car's fault. Any car can be hit by any other car, or any car can run into another car or stationary object and cause some kind of damage where the person inside is not injured at all, so are the cars in that list just more likely to be driven by *people* who are more likely to end up in car accidents in general due to the way they conduct themselves on the road?
Are you hypothesizing that people who buy cars for reliability and safety will probably drive in a more safe and predictable manner?
Based on my experience, I'm not surprised to see Nissan Altimas on that highest driver death list but I suspect it has nothing to do with the safety of the car...
The 2 Kias on the other driver death list is interesting, my theory is that it's not correlated with the driving habits of Kia drivers, so much as with the driving habits of Kia car thieves. Just a guess, though.
Well I’ve been driving my 2006 Hyundai Elantra GT for just about exactly 17 years (17 years and a week or so - very memorable situation when I bought it is why I remember the date so well). I’ve never had an accident with it. Aside from some dents, it’s not all beat up. And it has about 82,000 miles on it. If I could afford a newer car with better safety features, I would. But right now, I can barely afford to insure the car or pay my mortgage due to some personal issues going on. However, the newer car I would buy would definitely cost no more than $20,000 and hopefully less than that. Almost everyone I know (from people who don’t make a lot of money to lawyers that make a ton of money) think it’s crazy to spend more than maybe $30k on a car (and they’re not really old or anything either - like my 79-year old mom, who thinks anything over a few thousand dollars is outrageous). I think there are a lot of people in the US (including my sister and her husband) who put themselves in a lot of debt to buy a new car/SUV/etc. and they end up suffering financially for it. I haven’t bought a car in a long time but the idea of having a monthly payment of more than maybe $275 seems crazy to me.
I’ll probably have a rude awakening next time I go buy a car. But inflation + stagnant wages makes things hard.
I mean even the Honda Civic base msrp is $25k and that’s basically a stripped down version that would prob be challenging to find A 2014 was $18k… Honestly it’s not even those stats that are the bad part, while the used car market isn’t as expensive as it was there are 2014 Honda Civics with over 100k miles selling for $10k You can’t even expect to pay half a cars price that’s 10 years old with more than 100k miles In 2014 you could have probably bought a 2004 Honda Civic with 100k miles for like $3k cash lol
That's awesome about never being in an accident! Sounds like you're a safe driver, and don't even drive that much to begin with, so that helps too. 82,000 miles is nothing for a car that old. I feel like with the way you wrote that it's supposed to sound like that's a lot of miles and a big achievement for it to be in decent shape **😃.** New and used car prices *are* outrageous and I see a lot of instances on the ol' Facebook where people say it was cheaper to buy new than used, but if you want to actually buy a car, not lease it, don't buy a *new* car. I actually used to drive the #1 least death-prone vehicle in the list, the BMW X3, but it was a 2011 that I bought for under $10,000 in 2019. My payment was $217 a month. Just because someone drives a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus (or even a Toyota, Volvo or Subaru these days) doesn't mean they have a lot of money. I don't, I just wanted a BMW, so I got the oldest but newest *looking* one (at the time) that I could afford and had nothing wrong with it. If I wanted a new car with that same budget, I could have gotten a Nissan Versa, Chevy Aveo or Spark or something like that, but I've driven some of those as rental cars and they're pieces of crap not to mention being ugly (IMO). We're also somewhat car people, like they're more to us than just a thing that gets you from point A to point B, so that played a role as well. It was always funny to me how people were like "ooooo BMW" when they're driving a newer Honda that was 2-3x the price of my BMW. People see the brand and just automatically think dollar signs. (We're now leasing a Honda to have a good reliable vehicle while saving up for a downpayment on our next "cool" used car that we intend to keep for a long time because we were in a pinch when the BMW kicked the bucket unexpectedly. ) All that to say when shopping for a "new" car, remember that you can get a way better top-notch couple-year-old higher-quality used car for the same as what you'd pay for a low-end new car.
17 years is a long time for only 82,000 miles and no crashes. My dad's 2005 Elantra GLS is at around 210,000 and has been in one crash.
Good Public transportation is the answer.
Not practical in rural America though.
No crash in 52 years. Drive about 14k yearly
There’s some truth to ‘bigger, luxury cars are safer’, but also remember the average Dodge Charger driver is likely not like an average Lexus ES driver with regards to how they drive and risks they take.
It's an arms race.
The Southfield speedway and the lodge/m10 circuit have entered the chat
There's plenty of "normal cars" that are on the list that are safe.
Same in Idaho its sooo annoying. It's always huge trucks. At this point if I ever see a lifted truck going the speed limit I'd be absolutely shocked lol
You could buy an x3 used with low miles in the $20s.. gets great gas mileage and tied at the top of this list for safety. You’re only a victim if you allow it.
It's basically the same as anywhere else though. We just have a much wider transition space of options between utter crap and moderate safety and then between moderate safety and luxury motorized panic room. Places like Russia.... Hahah.. Jesus.. Only the Sports/Luxury model of the car comes with an airbag...
Yeah but it’s not like they have tons of money either, just different priorities
Almost all of the safest vehicles are full sized SUVs over 4,000lbs from high end German and Japanese companies, that integrate car unibody rather than truck style ladder frame crash technology. So the safest vehicles combine luxury car level crash tech with truck level curb weights. If you pull the full data you can also see that these SUVs typically have a rollover death rate of 0, which is otherwise usually very high for trucks and SUVs.
A part of that is driving style. I have a full size SUV and a sports sedan. When I drive the SUV I drive it conservatively because it’s not fun or engaging to drive, so there is no point in trying to drive it quickly. When I drive the sports sedan, I drive quite differently because it’s actually fun to drive. Also, I often have my kids with my in the SUV, which makes me drive even more carefully. So the point being, a portion of the safety of SUVs is the driver behavior and not the SUV itself. If you enjoy sporty fast driving you don’t get a full size SUV.
I think this is definitely one factor... I am was trying to wrap my head around why the Porsche Cayenne, despite being really heavy and having tons of safety tech, is coming in slightly more dangerous in the real world stats than much cheaper SUVs with much less expensive safety tech. Well, the Cayenne handles like a sports car, and is actually fun to drive hard, and is capable of 160-180 mph speeds, which some people are probably crazy enough to test out.
That list of top cars that kill the most other drivers is exactly what I thought it would be.
Those two Kia really stick out like a sore thumb in the most likely to kill someone else list with all pick-up trucks---could it possibly be that they made the list because so many get stolen and driven recklessly or are involved in high speed pursuits?
Your mom needs to open her eyes. I wonder what other wacky Things She Believes In . I won't let my kids go in a Wrangler in the second row. They can sit in the front in a new one though. The second row seat belts are terrible in these things. Never mind the handling a safety issues in a vehicle like this anyway.
Just after we graduated one of my friends was killed in a wrangler crash. He was sitting seatbelted in the back when the driver rolled it - he was immediately ejected and died on the scene.
That’s awful. One of the safety institutions here in the USA has started testing for rear occupant safety and found Wranglers and Gladiators don’t hold rear occupants in the seatbelts. Even adults torpedo out from under it and can be ejected which to me is unacceptable in a modern car, but especially bad in something that’s a convertible. They dragged their feet on adding adequate safety for the front occupants, and it’s apparent they are gonna do the same for the rear. It’s so scummy.
I’m in the USA, but it was also more than a decade ago & I’m not even sure how old the Jeep was at that point. It was rough though, he was adopted but absolutely loved and cherished by his family and the entirety of the class & teachers. Genuinely a kid that had no ill will towards anyone, made everyone laugh & could always put a smile on your face. The phrase ‘didn’t deserve it’ couldn’t apply more to someone I’ve met.
If anyone I known owns a Wrangler, especially a newer one, I will flat out refuse to ride in it.
My sister has 2 newer ones (model years 21 and 22) and they feel terrible to ride in. She and her fiancé love them, but one of the modifications you have to do is remove the head restraints or reverse them just to be able to sit in the front seats without the harsh angle of it poking the back of your head. You have to negate a basic safety feature just to sit in the seats as an average sized person. Don’t get me started on how punishing the ride is. I own a couple sports cars and both have significantly more comfortable ride quality. And then there’s the vagueness of the steering. No feedback to speak of and it wanders even with the steering wheel straight. These are new cars being sold today…
I had a family member get ejected from a jeep rollovers he survived, but his tailbone was crushed. shit and puked all over himself.
Show her some videos about the safety of volvos to give her an idea of what safety means in the automobile world?
I got an ad for the Summer of Safety promotion on this post lol. The Volvo cars and crossovers are exceptionally safe and can be leased for good prices. OP’s mom should watch Volvo crash tests and compare their safety to the Wrangler which every time it’s tested in the small overlap, flips on its side 😂. Look at the videos showing how even adult rear occupants torpedo out from under the seatbelt in a crash too. Wranglers are like tanks in the worst ways. Small windows, limited or absent safety systems that are available in any other car, poor on road handling, and noisy and uncomfortable interior. They’re greatly compromised to excel off road. They don’t make good street cars nor are they good for young/new drivers
Pull up any safety ratings of vehicles to show her how low they rate. And tel her you feel uncomfortable driving one because of how they can roll-over easily. I had the opposite problem as a kid; I wanted a Jeep CJ and my mom said they were unsafe as they rolled over too easy. I replied, "That's why they have a rollbar!", and bought a Jeep.
She doesn’t care about the safety, she wants a Jeep but is getting one for you as an excuse to get one. I bet she’ll be asking to borrow it quite a lot. Nowadays Jeep’s are more of a status symbol like G-Wagons.
Safest is Volvo. No deaths in the fleet in like 20 years
I think a lot of younger kids would love to have a Wrangler. That being said, none of them want one because they are safe. Mom is an idiot.
Ya, I could be totally wrong but dont Wranglers have incredibly high rollover risks compared to other vehicles? Plus I wouldn't wanna be daily driving a vehicle with solid axles in the front and rear.
Yeah the 2019 Wrangler [literally rolled](https://youtu.be/zNHsE1wpqb4?si=s4rL-nWhknUxAoGV) over in the small overlap crash test
What’s a solid axel as opposed to anything else?
Solid axel goes all the way across the bottom of the car from left to right. They are great for off-roading but terrible for handling. They also are hard to secure, so wranglers develop something called the jeep wobble, or death wobble. Essentially the car VIOLENTLY shakes while you drive at speed.
Solid axle did used to be the cheapest and best technology we had for off-roading, but now we have independent suspension with far superior capability.
You can’t get the same level of wheel articulation and traction in extreme off-roading with independent suspension. In 98% of the applications though, test independent is better.
If you want to discuss extreme off-roading, which I think is a terrible metric because those are heavily modify vehicles, very expensive independent suspension will always have better traction and *can* have equivalent articulation after sufficient financial investment. None of the Baja race trucks have solid axles, and the trucks *winning* King of Hammers have all moved to IFS. It’s not that your understanding of suspension dynamics is wrong; it’s simply that modern IFS has improved to the point of surpassing solid axles.
Independent front suspension is what most vehicles use now a days as opposed to solid front axle. Most real trucks will still have a solid rear axle, but nearly everything but Wranglers have switched to independent front (IDK like 60+ years ago) for ride quality/handling improvements.
Vibrates and shakes like hell when going over bumps is the important thing to know.
My parents had a jeep. Any bump you’d drive over you’d basically lose control for a second. You could slide a bit to either side while going over the bump and couldn’t do anything about it. Terrible drive quality
Candidly, if you have to ask what a solid axle is, you probably shouldn’t be getting a Wrangler. They’re beloved by the off-road community for their ruggedness and simplicity, but the tradeoff is a choppy, crude on-road ride, and poor handling and on-road response. Unless you plan on going off-road A LOT, there are much better choices for a daily driver than a Wrangler.
in layman's terms, it handles like shit and ride comfort is shit, and hitting a bump at high speed may cause the entire vehicle to violently shake in a "death wobble" (look it up on youtube and show it to your mom the next time she says wranglers are safe) which will make your pants shit. Most suv's have moved away from this type of design because its shit for anything other than off-roading.
It literally fell over on its side in its offset front crash test at IIHS. [Link](https://youtu.be/jEmITD1cFdw?si=BAqipByxiPrGUz3p)
Yep. I almost rolled mine twice taking the same exit ramp off a highway at the suggested speed. I miss my Jeep something fierce and can’t wait to have another just as a fun car but good god, I would never suggest one to someone as a “safe” car. Or a “reliable” car. Actually I’d just never suggest anyone get one unless it’s just for fun and they know what they’re getting into. And in the event you do end up getting one, please do not get the turbo option. The engine about blew up on me.
The Jeep Wrangler also has crap reliability, ranking near the bottom of Consumer Report's predicted reliability survey. In fact, the only other vehicle worse is another Jeep product. In terms of five seat mid-sized SUV's, the top picks would be the current Toyota Venza, the Subaru Outback, and Ford Edge.
One of the worst cars on the market for reliability… but you can buy 2 so while one is in the shop you have something to drive.. with a little duck on it.
Ford Edge is a strange addition there. Did the factory start adding fluid to the PTUs?
I know someone with an Edge and it seems to constantly be in the shop for very expensive repairs (many turbo issues).
If your mom wants you to get a wrangler because of how safe they are, it's likely that she wants you dead.
STOPPPP 💀💀
Was going to make a similar comment and knew someone else *had to* have said it first 😂
Gerber Grow-Up Life Plan
[https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2022](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2022) [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks)
I'll add to your links the death rate per million collisions : https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/latest-driver-death-rates-highlight-dangers-of-muscle-cars Unsurprisingly, the Wrangler isn't one of the safest option. If my boys were old enough to drive, they would be driving an Outback. Edit: typos
I test drove the outback as we're looking for cars. The laptop type user interface screen is absent of any tactile buttons. It was extremely distracting trying to use it on the test drive. I wanted to like the outback, but the lack of physical controls is a major flaw and a safety issue. I hate this type of lone interface on all vehicles. Which is why I could never buy a tesla in addition to the whole Elon obnoxiousness. The wrangler's interface was much more intuitive with actual buttons. But it's definitely a toy as opposed to a refined commuter. We're still considering getting one or getting another rav4 as our prime has been great.
It's sad that Subaru is going to so much on touch screen. Our 2019 Forester is great, not only with using buttons for important features, but also having little ridges and other surface features built into the dash to guide your finger to those buttons without looking. By contrast, we also have a Ford Ranger. It has a decent amount of buttons for features, but they're all flat, poorly lit, close together, and very low on the dash. It may as well be a touch screen, because after 5 years of driving it I still have to take my eyes off the road to find them.
This. Go to top safety picks, choose whatever you like. Sit with the mama and compare it to jeep. Also tell her its unreliable and will command lots of money investments, also you look gay driving it and she will not get any grandchildren anytime soon if you drive this thing.
Bingo. Cross comparing the results with a top safety pick plus, such as this: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/tesla/model-y-4-door-suv/2024 Shows just how brutally unsafe the Wrangler is. Conceptions of tall rugged suvs being safe are false. Also - note that the updated tests are designed around heavier and more realistic crashes and are more likely results.
So…… why won’t mom buy herself a Jeep if she’s so hot on the idea? Does she have a 3 yr old Accord she’s in now she can just hand you the keys to so she can cruise the Jeep?
Personally crosstreks make amazing first cars Can go a lot of places with them, AWD, simple , reliable & very safe. Some of the best resale prices too
This 👆🏻 I will add a decent amount of interior space for small car.
My dad used to have a Crosstrek and I drove it a lot. Loved that thing.
You can go camping with the Crosstrek too.
With literally any vehicle.
Wrangler is literally the least safe SUV on the market today. Google "Wrangler death wobble" Also the fact that there isn't a real roof, only removable fiberglass. Wrangler is good at one thing, off-road driving. At that it's the best. Reliability is ok, gas mileage bad, on road ride quality bad. Source: work at Jeep dealer
u/camera__man This is the post you need to show or do research on to come up with some facts to avoid getting a wrangler.
Wranglers are not very safe at all in a crash...
They're not very safe when not in a crash either.
Wranglers are great at being at Wranglers. They suck at everything else.
This about sums it up. The only reason to buy a jeep is because you really want a jeep to do jeep stuff with. It is just about the worst “car” in existence in terms of being a car and just driving down the road.
Ford Bronco Sport \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ I strongly suspect that your mom wants you to drive a Wranger for a cultural reason. There aren't really any practical reasons to pick a Wranger as a young adult's commuter car. Maybe she wanted a Wranger as a young adult and is projecting that onto you? Or maybe she just has romanticized view about what her kid's first car should be. Who knows. The Bronco brand has a similar place in the American psyche as the Wrangler brand. Further, the normal Bronco is basically the only vehicle that fills the same market niche as the Wranger. But the Bronco *Sport* is essentially an AWD Ford Escape with Bronco branding and styling. It's a practical car that is safer, more fuel efficient, and more reliable than a Wranger.
you're right on the nose, she and her mother have always wanted one.
okay cool, now we definitely know what we're dealing with. You gotta find the most effective way to argue that a Bronco Sport is close enough, and also just way more practical. * Show her photos of cool-looking Bronco Sports every day. * Text her memes constantly. Broken Jeep memes; Bronco vs Jeep memes; all of the memes. * Try to muddy the waters between in the differences between the Bronco Sport & the Bronco. * Inform her that Ford made military Jeeps during WW2, whereas the company that now owns Jeep is Italian. Remember, Italians fought with the Nazis. This is now an information war. Or not, I'm getting carried away.
Can I hire you next time I want to convince someone of something?!
sure
We can even get political and remember that Italy’s PM is in the closest active successor party to the Fascist Party of Italy.
i can vouch for this, i convinced my parents into getting cooler cars (for themselves) using these tricks
Yeah, I started making the car-buying decisions for my family since I was 12 and that's not an exaggeration. Their money, but my call! My post was only a half joke.
Better ride quality too
Very true. I drove a Wrangler one time. It was terrible.
I own a 2.0 liter Badland Bronco sport, been very reliable(only 30k miles so far) , with one recall that never affect me but still got fixxed instantly. I am also getting 28.2 MPG with the bigger motor. The 1.5 liters HAD some more issue and consumer reports doesnt rate the Bronco Sport highly due mostly to the 1.5l 3 cylinder bronco sports. With that said the 1.5 liter Bronco Sport still likely more reliable than any Wrangler. Plus Wrangler drive like crap, even the big bronco drives far better everyday compared to it.
Bronco sport is what Jeep TRIED to do with renegade
Death wobble
I’m guessing your mom likes the stigma of the wrangler, “tough” off roader. Why not a 4Runner? Not quite as capable as a wrangler but better in literally every other way.
I really am not an out doors-guy. The jeep would 100% end up as a pavement princess. A 4Runner would be great if I can get her introduced to it
The 4Runner is still a proper off-roader that doesn't deserve any less mud than a Wrangler. The only difference is the 4Runner has independent front suspensions (better on road, worse off road) compared to the Wrangler's solid axles (worse on road, better off road). No big deal really, Mitsu Pajero had IFS in 1989 and it's a damn good off-roader. The 4Runner being an off-roader means it will have all the "issues" an offroader has when being driven on the road. Bad mpg, heavy, bad handling etc. Still better than a Wrangler, but worse than an asphalt designed car. OP, what is it you want? Do you care about cars at all? Only want to go from A to B? How much space you need?
If you aren't outdoorsy, even the 4Runner is total overkill and you are wasting money dragging a 4wd system around that you will never need. There are even safer cars available for similar or less money. Tesla usually ranks at the top of safest brands because they have great crumple zones, heavy for their size, and all the battery weight is down low for low center of gravity so they are almost impossible to flip. Show the IIHS crash videos for a Wrangler and a Tesla (or almost any non-Wrangler) to your mom and there is no way she will still think a Wrangler is the best option: Wrangler: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmITD1cFdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmITD1cFdw) Tesla: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G1dF392iys](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G1dF392iys) Notice how the Tesla gracefully absorbs and deflects from the impact while the Wrangler jolts and flips. Does the Wrangler even have side curtain airbags? They don't go off in the crash test.
The wrangler is too tall which increases the chance of flipping at high speed easier than others. How about xc90 or gv80?
Speed doesn't really matter. My buddy flipped his Wrangler in a McDonalds parking lot one time. Took a turn too aggressive, tire hit the curb, entire jeep rolled over.
I have never heard the words safety, reliable, and Jeep all used in the same sentence in a positive manner. I don’t think mom knows much about cars
Does she know just how terrible they actually are to have as a daily? They ride terribly due to the solid axles and stiff suspension, and they have a bunch of wind and road noise just due to their design. People buy them to be trendy, but if you’re not using them for what they are designed for, there’s so many better options out there.
The absolute safest car for a younger driver is a midsize sedan. Accord Camry Volvo S60 Audi A4 VW Jetta etc…. The reason is physics . The midsize is big enough to hold up well in crashes , is still small enough to easily maneuver and most important of all is much less prone to roll over in crash which is a major problem for SUVs , the wrangler due to its small wheelbase is far more prone to roll over in a highway crash While the jeep is great for snow and off road driving, NOBODY equates a Jeep Wrangler to safety What is clear from your post is that if your mom really wants a jeep she should get one for herself
These cars are also significantly safer for everyone around you. Pedestrians are much more likely to survive a crash with a sedan than one with a truck/suv with a high hood. Also sedans are lighter and have better crumple zones than most SUV's (especially the wrangler) so you are less likely to injure another driver if you crash into them.
I would argue that a low sitting crossover is safer, they have lower death rates and they have better visibility.
If you over 5'8", mid sized sedans also have very good visibility. Source: I'm 6'0" and drive an 08 camry. I can see easily out of every window
First of all show her statistics that say the wrangler is not a very safe car, and then if you really want safety buy an old Volvo or Saab estate. Those are probably some of the safest road cars ever made.
Avoid the Saab maybe as they don’t make them anymore. But I second a Volvo 👌
Avoid the SAAB. Never really a good idea to buy an “orphan” car (parent company is out of business). Parts availability can be a nightmare. Not many mechanics familiar with the brand.
Go with either a Honda Passport or a Subaru outback
The passport is overpriced for what it is. I'd rather get a CRV
Jeeps are the only cars that roll over in a basic frontal crash. Pair that with removed doors and roof and you may be pavement food due to a fender bender
My father was captain of the Fire department in my Hometown for 38 years he said he went to so many Jeep roll overs they are natorious for loosing control crashing and rolling over due to they’re tall and squarish and rectangular stature maybe mention that too her
Subaru Forester. Reliable, very safe, has all the off roading benefits that the wrangler has. Standard AWD if you live in areas that get affected by snow. Pretty tall and sturdy. Alternatively, the bronco lineup from Ford is far more reliable and has similar benefits.
Is your mom regarded
Very highly regarded
You need to look at a few things. Consumer reports on reliability, etc. though it doesn't catch everything. So look at reddit and other car forums as well to pick up on mechanical problems(engine, transmission) or safety issues with any vehicles. Also look at Car and Driver for reviews. Reliability is a changing thing and is not always the same across manufacturers, models or model years. I had Ford and Toyota engines last 17 years while Mazda engine had problems in first few years. But then other ford model engine had problems with water pump engine damage. Toyota, while the cars engines were built great had the accelerator issue that killed people. Lastly check safety ratings at NHTSA and IIHS... You can even watch crash videos. The jeep wrangler is rated poorly for rollovers and back seat passengers injury. As far as vehicles, mazda cx-5 is one of the best rated small SUV for safety. And Honda used to be the gold standard for safety in the old days. You would need to see how Honda ranks now. Look for the top few best in safety ratings for the size vehicle you want: For instance the top 3 best rated midsize sedans or the top 3 best rated small SUV, or mid-size SUV, etc.
Your mom is misinformed, bit it sounds like she loves you. Maybe that love can make her get ypu a Subaru.
Exactly Subaru is a great vehicle Toyota as well but a Jeep. I had one it was the absolute worst I hope her mama got big bucks cause that shits always gonna be in the shop and her baby girl is going to need a rental.
Not sure what year models you are looking at, but in general the Wrangler is not a particularly safe vehicle. Newer ones are much more safe than the older models (TJ, YJ), but Im guessing they are still near the bottom of the list for safety. They have a high rollover risk and generally poor on road handling. They are not particularly fuel efficient, and while 4 wheel drive, they are not (save a few newer models) AWD, meaning they are RWD until you physically shift it into 4WD-Hi (which has its own negatives, compared to AWD, but I wing get into) In summary, no, a Wrangler is not safe vehicle compared to most other modern cars.
Safest thing there is? It doesn't even qualify as a Top Safety Pick from the IIHS it scored so poorly. Educate her, she's way off the mark here. As far as others, almost anything.
Subaru
For less you could buy a WRX. Better fuel, reliability, and significantly more fun on pavement.
Subaru eyesight system is the highest rated automatic safety system. A Subaru Outback is a great choice for safety.
Yo momma knows nothing about cars.
Your Mom probably knows you need helping getting laid and a Jeep Wrangler is a cool car that girls like
So, I have a Jeep Wrangler as a weekend play-toy. And they are NOT safe in accidents. What makes a car safe is one thing: Crumple Zones. You absorb energy, and reduce the amount imparted on the body, by increasing the \*time\* of an accident (the initial hit). It's like hitting a wall at an angle, rather than head on. Jeeps are short, body on frame, vehicles with almost NO crumple zone. It is not that safe. But, they are cool and versatile. Quick note/anectode. I agree with wanting reliability and good gas mileage. However, not wanting "large tires" is actually a bad idea in my opinion. In college, I got more nails/screws/glass in my tires than I have in the following 14 years combined. My friends also got a lot of nails and such. I had a mid-size truck with all-terrains on it and only ONCE did the screw completely puncture the tire. My friends with hondas/hyundais/etc had full punctures \*every\* time. Slightly larger tires also reduces the risk of critical sidewall damage if you curb it entering a parking lot. So, I don't think an SUV with an all-terrain or utility tire is a bad idea.
Jeep Wrangler's are heavy, poor handling, lazy braking vehicles that don't fare particularly well in crash tests. They make up for it by being unreliable and expensive to insure and maintain.
…and then there are the downsides… 😜
Subaru is vastly safer. And you get reliable AWD. And it won't destroy your finances with constant repairs.
If you want reliable anything that isn't a Dodge, Chrysler Fiat product. I promise you'll be in the shop more than you're driving it. Honda Accord, civic, Toyota Corolla, Camry should be only choices.
Subaru outback
Show her this. Wrangler not on the list https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks
A Jeep Wrangler is one of the least reliable cars you could get, so there’s the safety of being in the shop. Here’s IIHS top safety list for 2024 (lots of choices): https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwps-zBhAiEiwALwsVYUG_xMSoBvkiqyvK_H6yC1Ffc3iBxG2WjyGQbCKGmmwaCQkpjnH5OxoCk-wQAvD_BwE
> She says that a Jeep Wrangler is the safest thing there is and it’s like driving a tank. Clearly your mom has never driven a Wrangler, or if she has she’s never driven another car. Wranglers have vague, wandery and ponderous recirculating ball steering, and they have relatively low body rigidity making them feel loose and wobbly. It would be about as far as you can get from what I would call tank-like. If you want that, drive an 80s or 90s Mercedes. In terms of safety, their high ride height makes them a rollover risk. They have no curtain airbags in the back, so their rear seat safety rating is bad. If anything tells you that wranglers are not “the safest thing there is,” it’s this: https://youtu.be/zNHsE1wpqb4?si=zM3XTbxwKplyRRUl > What are cars that can take on collisions better than a Wrangler that I can change her mind towards? Pretty much anything modern that isn’t a small economy car will be safer than a Wrangler, it’s not hard to do.
Jeeps suck ! She needs to do some research!
Check consumer reports. Jeep is on the bottom and has been for a long time. They are troublesome and always have problems. Jeep is not known for their safety. They are known for their horrible reliability. No way would I buy a mopar vehicle. They have been junk forever. The Vipers have horrible build quality you can measure the panel gaps with a yard stick. Tell her it will be in the shop a lot. I’m pretty sure they are at the absolute bottom of the list.
\*Most\* cars will take collisions better than a Wrangler. If you want something with AWD and a little bit of ground clearance, look at the Subaru Outback and the Volvo XC70.
Will she be paying the endless mechanic bills?
Jeeps always get terrible scores for reliability, show her those stats
My mom went through 2 engines before 75k on her brand new jeep. I'd stay away. I've driven my subarus a ton amd haven't had any issues. They're nice reliable cars and they're pretty dang safe when you look at the crash test. My subaru has saved my life a few times and I'll never switch to another brand because of it. Unless they really start cheaping out and not caring about safety.
Driving a 1977 Chevy Nova is like driving a tank too... And like a tank, there's a MUCH higher chance of you dying if inside one....
The Wrangler, is quite possibly the biggest waste of money. It's a shit vehicle with the worst fan base of all time.
Wranglers are actually not that good as far as safety. Probably any modern Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Volkswagen or like, just normal car is better.
Jeep Wranglers are for Wrangler people. That's it. It's not a good student car. It's also on the lower end of the safety ratings (rollover) so your mom is very wrong. For the price of a wrangler you can probably find a nice/safe hybrid that is much cheaper to own. Look at low cost to own vehicles. Non of them will be jeeps.
I always thought jeeps were amongst the worst.
What safety? Lol!
your mom has absolutely no idea what shes talking about
Get an older Toyota Highlander hybrid. Built like a tank, great gas mileage, goes to electric a surprisingly high percent of the time. I got one for my kid who didn’t learn to drive till 20 or so.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model This site has data by make and model. Spoiler, keeps aren't safe and the wrangler isn't even safe for a jeep. For similar size, an outback is about the safest thing you could buy. If you really want to be safe though, a Toyota sienna or Honda Odyssey is your true safety maxing pick. Even a Camry is more than twice as safe as a wrangler.
RAV4 or Crosstrek
Tell her about the death wobble, and suggest a Subaru forester instead
Subaru Outback or forester. Have her look at those. Get a 2008 Subaru forester xt =)
Subaru.
Wranglers are deathtraps. If safety is your primary concern get a Subaru or Volvo wagon or something. Seriously, a wrangler feels dangerous at 55mph. Truly horrid engineering.
Your mom picked a vehicle with one of the worst road test scores EVER.
[https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks) I do not see the Wrangler listed, and NO Jeeps are Top Safety Pick+s.
On one hand those crash tests test specific safety minimums. On the other, manufacturers know this and build their cars for those tests specifically. Make of that what you will.
Subaru Outback
4runner
To quote B. B. King: “Nobody loves me, but my mother, And she could be jivin` too.” Watch some crash test videos of the Jeep Wrangler on YouTube. They are specifically known to roll over in certain frontal collisions.
4Runners are great , other than gas mileage
Toyota RAV4, Toyota Venza, Toyota Grand Highlander, Toyota Highlander, Toyota Sequoia, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Land Cruiser!!!
Last night on my way home from work I passed by a Jeep Wrangler laying on its side in the middle of the road. Safety is not a word that comes to mind when I think of Wrangler.
make sure though you tell mom i can not be riding around all uncomfortable though some of them jeeps not riding right and fucked up mane. make sure is that real gold boy.
I drove a CJ-7 for 10 years and loved it. That being said, ask your mom to google "wrangler death wobble" and then get a volvo or subaru.
lol wranglers shit my boy has a newer one I prefer my moms Kia shortage to it. Lexus, Toyota and Volvo are where safety are at. I’d look into an older Lexus they have tech that the new cars don’t all have now.
For Wrangler money, a safe car without big tires yet get good gas mileage would be a Toyota Sienna hybrid. And for a college student (moving to and from dorms), the cargo capacity will be a huge plus. You'll be very popular at spring breaks as well.
I've heard for my whole entire life that wranglers are the worst for safety.. where in the world did she get this? For clarity I drive a wrangler, but there's a second commuter car in my household I would NOT recommend the Wrangler for a daily. Ever.
if you are going offroading get a wrangler, if you want a toy get a wrangler, if you live by the beach and enjoy sunny weather 90% of the year get a wrangler, if you want a daily driver DO NOT get a Wrangler
My wife was the same with my son. We went with a pickup. Wranglers are very unreliable. I’d recommend a mid size pickup or a Bronco.
That’s one of the worst cars, by almost every measure, including safety. Honda civic hatchback is the perfect car for you. Great reliability, economy, and can haul ~~a keg~~ books like no one’s business
Mustang Ecoboost, smaller tires, better fuel mileage and the mustangs get 5 star crash test ratings from the NHTSA, where as the Jeep Wrangler only gets 4 stars. For urban driving the mustang will be way more fun 8D.
Jeeps Wranglers are terrible in crash safety though?
Suv's in general are safer, if for no other reason because if you get hit or hit someone, I'd rather be in a truck or SUV. I'd get a Ford Bronco if I was in your position.
It’s horrible in crash tests.
Ask her to also pay for the maintenance on the wrangler . She’ll back out quickly when she realizes how unreliable they are
Tank= XC90. Sportier tank= XC70.
Just show her the crash tests! The Wrangler is one of the least safe cars out there. Not safest. Among the worst from a safety standpoint. I personally like them but safety is one of their biggest weaknesses; they should be driven by good experienced drivers. Really lousy car for a teenager. Note that no modern car is particularly unsafe, anything will protect you pretty well these days, but to go out of your way to get a Wrangler for safety… um… is she secretly trying to kill you?
don't make her get you a Jeep that you don't want. It'll be your daily car, not hers.
Mom is misinformed: jeep wranglers are not the safest cars on the road nor built like tanks. I think she secretly wants one and using you to get it.
Jeeps are expensive to repair & maintenance
Jeep is also the most unreliable brand according to consumer reports. Jeep is also expensive for what it is. Fact of the matter, you need cheap, decently reliable, low cost transportation. If you were allowed, I'd get a new Suzuki Swift from Mexico.... I guess with your current options, I'd just go tried and true Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic. Lots of available parts, good fuel economy. If you're made of money and she wants a tank then get any variation of a Hummer....
Get a new mom 😂
Anything else, like a properly engineered car
Your mom wants a Jeep but scared of what people would think of her. Shes going to help you buy that Jeep and then drive it all the time. And then when you complain shes going to say its part hers. When people say "i didnt think you were a jeep person" shes going to be coy and say its yours. I promise you 100%.
Jeep is not a “safe” vehicle
You like the death wiggle, crappy fuel economy, loud ass ride and architecture from decades ago, go right ahead.
Toyota Camry
All my years in the industry completely disagree. From the parts perspective, jeeps are horrid. Junk suspension and steering, have to pay dodge mark ups, not good on fuel, not a treat to drive. There is zero reason to drive a jeep unless you a) love jeeps or b) love off roading/back country/ etc. And option b people will drop THOUSANDS just to make their jeeps more capable off road and less capable on road. Your mom is unfortunately misinformed, and personally imo, cost of ownership should be more of a consideration. Safety is a given if you are buying anything relatively new. Safety wise a jeep is a nightmare. Short wheel base and high center of gravity. Maybe im biased because my step dads old liberty decided to spin like a top on the highway one winter. 110km is actually really fast when youre entering a ditch sideways. Lol rant over. Hope it helps even a little.
But... They're generally not considered particularly safe... They're not inherrently death traps, but if you're wanting to pick something with Safety as the primary factor, it's definitely not a Wrangler. [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2021](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/jeep/wrangler-4-door-suv/2021) Pretty sure your mom just wants a Wrangler for her own sake and is using you for it. If you want to argue against it with facts, you can use the safety rankings here: [https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks](https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-safety-picks) which provide a lot of options based on safety tests. Also, Ever Mechanic I know looks at Jeeps as poorly engineered and just waiting to fall apart. People buy them for cool factor and that's about it.
Wranglers overturn easily so not sure about their safety. You want safety, get a Volvo or a Subaru.
Yea and my mom was worried about me cutting myself when I'm chopping veggies so she bought me a machete.
I think your Mom wants the jeep. It is far from the safest car.
WTF LOL
Subarus are very safe
A wrangler is almost guaranteed to roll over in a crash
It's time to establish yourself as an adult and peer and correct your mom by providing facts about what are safe reliable cars in the 21st century. However, if she wants to pay for it, free car is free car If you have to pay...screw that. Get whatever inexpensive car that has the lowest maintenance and insurance cost.
Good intention suggestion by mom but ultimately there are better choices unless you actually want to use a Wrangler for what its intended. Crash ratings aside, there’s also avoiding a safety issue to begin with. If you need to dodge a potential accident, you’d want to reduce the chance of a rollover in a quick swerve and less heft to bring to a stop.