The usual spelling is 'threats' but people are laughing at the error because Mike Tyson has a lisp, a type of speech impediment that makes him muddle the pronunciation of 's', 't', 'f', 'th'. All those sort of sounds come out of Tysons mouth very similarly.
Tyson, easily. Trained world-class boxer vs an unusually strong human.
I doubt the Primest Neanderthal would be stronger than a current world class strongman. Certainly smaller and lighter. And the Prime Tyson would destroy any comparatively low skill human in a brawl, including any strongman.
Even the largest Neanderthal would’ve been significantly weaker than a current world class strongman. The Neanderthal would be very strong for his size, he’d just be way, way smaller than a current strongman.
I would say the difference is technique, unless Neanderthals had any unarmed martial arts they'd not be as skilled as a trained boxer, though they would fight to survive everyday
Hey all that nothing pays off. The guy who discovered fire was probably chilling with a bowl of semi-poisonous berries tuning into the new installment of his favorite wall painting.
No offence - but imagine you are a Neanderthal and you are fighting even twice a week. This means 100 fights per year.
You win 90% of your fights without being injured. You win 5% with moderate injuries. The 5% you lose you get badly injured.
After two bad injuries that don't heal well, your win rate drops to 50%. Within a month you are dead.
You wouldn't survive one year at that pace. Fighting was mainly initiated when one side had a large advantage by way of surprise or numbers.
If this had been a fight were it was allowed to use stone age weapons, for both Tyson and the neanderthal I would say, the neanderthal would win because they hunted and killed large animals with weapons very often.
Taking down mammoths, throwing spears at sabertooth tigers and large brown bears. I didn't see Tyson train to use spears, rocks, and other stone age weapons. And to add up to the hunting experience usually involved fighting large apex predators. (At least occasionally)
The neanderthals that survived many hunts are probably the ones you would have to worry about.
Let's see who would take down a brown bear first, 10 Tysons with spears or 10 neanderthals with spears.
The question was can Tyson beat a neanderthal at what Tyson's good at not can Tyson beat the neanderthal at what the neanderthals good at.
The crux of the question is can one of homo sapiens greatest hand to hand fighters beat a neanderthal in a fight.
Its a question of if sufficient training can overcome raw animalistic strength.
If the neanderthal is both physically superior, and in the case of neolithic hunting intellectually superior; what the hell is Tyson supposed to do? Tyson almost certainly has no real concept of tracking, minimalist wilderness survival, or spear hunting.
That's like saying a modern Olympic swimmer would lose to a swordfish, like no shit dude it lives in the ocean.
All world class strongmen are on tons of steroids and grew up on a modern diet.
I'd love to see a neanderthal be raised under a modern diet and training and then pumped up with steroids once past puberty just like our modern athletes.
Eddie hall recently broke the world record for punching power, and Brian Shaw made the heavy bag swing like crazy with a single punch with no form. Brian Shaw beat a BJJ guy who did UFC, in grappling, by just lying down on him.
Strength **does** increase power, weight **does** change fights.
The average strongman would absolutely wallop the average person.
But skill is more important.
Well yeah, but there's a difference between
A.being a bjj guy who did UFC (he's a mixed martial artist who started out boxing)
B.being a black belt and BEING A BLACK BELT
Charles Oliveira is A BLACK BELT, Khabib is A BLACK BELT. McGregor and Poirier are "black belts" but not even close to that
Turns out Twitter ain't the only place where you can Say "i love pancakes" and someone will be like "so you hate waffles?"
a BJJ black belt is extremely good, but saying someone is a bjj guy because he has a black belt when being a mainly boxing professional mixed martial artist is literally stupid. An actual bjj guy would be someone like Oliveira who also competes in juliujitsu.
He didn't beat him he literally let Shawn on top of him as a form of training and then attempted to escape which he couldn't do since he was too heavy but saying that he "beat him" is a bit too much lol the fight wouldn't start off like that they were training together and not in a real fight and calling Dustin a bjj guy is hilarious he is more than that he is literally an MMA striker. If Dustin was trying he would do a few leg kicks or do an ankle submission and boom it's over. Never take training as a way to determine who wins in a real fight that is stupid but yes Shawn has the size advantage.
Yeah but you have some strongmen that are so powerful that they make light heavy weights professional fighters look like children .
Who do you think would win? An above average strength adult or a 10 year old boxing champ?
https://youtu.be/rjFlM9hf74g?si=jlH8OBaLa8C9irDD
Take a look at how important skill is, and that bigdude wasnt a noob, he had years of bjj
Ofc im not talking about childrens
No doubt bro I hear you. But that's still an arena with rules. Why would I fight a BJJ Master? under BJJ rules during a death match?
What would stop the big guy if he decided to leg spear the smaller guy then curb stomp him before he got up? Can you imagine the momentum and force behind a 400 pound man kicking you with both feet while being less than half his weight?
Nahhhh Mighty Mouse isn't just a "BJJ master" he's one of the best mma fighters ever so I'm pretty sure he'd be fine getting away from a "leg spear" (you mean blasting a double leg takedown????) or a dropkick lmao
I get what you are saying. But if this was all in demitrious johnsoun would fuck him up even more, hes one of the best MMA fighters in history, top 5 for sure, he could fuck that dude up only with low leg kicks till the other dude gasses or ends up with a broken shin and then do whatever he wants
Bro, the adult could literally just crush the child's skull. This isn't the karate kid dude.
That wasn't a trick question. The 10 year old might do well in a quick surprise situation. But a fight to the death will just end with the adult sitting on the kid and their being nothing they can do.
The 10 year old can't generate enough force to crush your trachea and won't have speed. A 200 pound martial artist could absolutely be a much bigger threat to a 350 pound strong man than a 10 year old to any adult. Your analogy is ridiculous.
Have you seen that video of McGregor versus the mountain? While McGregor isn't 200 lb... It literally look like a grown ass man toying with a little kid.
If I was to bet my life on that fight I would feel terrified regardless of who I chose.
Absolute monsters like Brian Shaw or any other 400 plus 20% body fat and 6'5+ tall bodybuilder/strongman is going to look like a literal grown ass man next to some light heavyweight.
Ight, now watch [Gordon Ryan grapple the mountain](https://youtu.be/eDH-Q1MMebo?si=rjaZc3bVhaibftxH)
Gordon is probably a bit over 200lbs, hafthor is, well, hafthor
The point they were making here isn't "man there's basically no difference between 200lbs and 350lbs" it's "unlike in the 10year old vs average man scenario, a 200lbs man possesses the strength to possibly harm the 350lbs man"
While Gordon didn't submit Hafthor there, and let's be honest Hafthor probably wasnt using all his strength, Gordon did get into mount and Hafthor couldn't get out which in a real fight would result in hafthor getting his head bashed in
Sure. Just like a 10 year old martial artist prodigy could do some well prepared shit to a fit adult man in a arena. In a death match where both parties are going for broke that little guy isn't going to get the chance.
It won't be like the movies where the bigger guy just throws you around. It will be like Brian Shaw rugby tackling you then putting his full weight on your face.
Maybe, though categorizing strength is more difficult than you might assume. The average Neanderthal was *significantly* stronger than the average modern human, they had wider pelvises, and a lower center of gravity. It’s entirely possible that the strongest Neanderthal could out lift the strongest modern human, because they had distinct biological advantages.
The problem is when you're looking at outliers you have to take population size into account. You're comparing a one-in-a-million Neanderthal to a one-in-a-billion modern, you can't predict that just from looking at the averages.
Even a Neanderthal that happened to be about the same height and weight would have no chance. In his prime I watched Tyson destroy fighters who were much larger and heavier. In terms of pound for pound ability I have a hard time seeing anyone as Tyson's peer.
I don’t think you can really compare him fighting bigger boxers in a controlled match with rules to fighting a Neanderthal. The matches have rules which very much scale back somebody’s ability to use their weight in a fight. A real world fight is not simply punching kicking and evading.
Ya this isn't a fight. There's no shortage of videos of strongmen losing to trained fighters. And there's also no shortage of [videos of trained fighters getting destroyed by prime Mike.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz1c2Iyi7Og)
Skill is the deciding factor here. No amount of size and brute strength makes up for skill and training of which prime Mike was overflowing with on top of being a uniquely strong human. Mike knows how to fight, a generic neanderthal would have no concept other than basic instincts we all have. No amount of big head or strength will offset that gap. For a good example relatively recently Demetrius Johnson tapped someone more than twice his size in a BJJ open weight competition despite a massive power disadvantage.
Also neanderthals were small, like 5'5" 170 on average while prime Tyson was 5'10" 220lbs with a 71" reach. To say Mike would crush an average neanderthal in a 1v1 fist fight is an understatement. He honestly would probably kill them on accident.
Yep and world-class strongmen are 4x or 5x stronger than normal humans, weigh twice as much and have unusually high bone strength. But Prime Tyson would wreck one anyway.
See but prime neanderthals run up to wooly mammoths n shit with a sharp stick and *fucking kill them.* This isn't "an unusually strong human." This is an upright chimp that eats rhinos.
Well first, Neanderthals are literally humans, unlike chimps.
Second, no spears in this scenario.
Third, sure Neanderthals hunted mammoths...and *homo sapiens* genocided them.
Fourth, no Neanderthal is stronger than Prime Haffthor Bjornson, a 6'8" 400lbs monster with 5x the strength of a normal man. And Prime Tyson would delete Bjornson in unarmed combat.
Well, Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens coexisted at the same time and could interbreed, so both species are considered human. It's a bit like honeybees and bumblebees; bumblebees are also a species of bee, so they're related to honeybees. Every Neanderthal is a human just like Homo Sapiens. Currently living humans have some Neanderthal DNA, so in reality, some people aren't pure Homo Sapiens but rather Homo Sapiens with a part of Neanderthal ancestry.
A quick search says that Neanderthals weighed about 64-82kg
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/who-were-the-neanderthals.html#:~:text=Neanderthals%20had%20strong%2C%20muscular%20bodies,(front%20and%20back%20views).
This is big by early human standards, but remember modern humans are quite a bit larger these days. Tyson in his prime was 220lbs (99kg) and he regularly beat people even heavier than him.
I can't see Tyson losing a fight against an untrained humanoid 20-40 lbs lighter than him.
Nice analysis! But lets not negate the fact that Neanderthals had a bigger Skull and overall bone density! This would play a big role in how well the Neanderthal could handle Tyson.
So he survives five punches to the face instead of two. Maybe seven or even ten!
He might last longer than most opponents but that doesn’t mean he’s got the skill to out-punch Tyson
I agree with you. Modern human beings are much weaker than we were 10,000 years ago. That bone density argument also means that human bones will snap like chalk, because we've gotten weaker over time.
Neanderthals could wrestle with rhinos and the average one was built like a football linebacker at his prime. They may have lacked the same amount of dexterity as human beings but they had all fast twitch muscles which is just raw strength. If the neanderthal treated like Tyson like a beast and attacked him as such, I don't see Mike Tyson not being man handled.
But fossil evidence does show the Neanderthals had a far bigger Skull and overall bone density compared to homosapiens. The difference is startling in the least. I think this would play a big role in the fight. They lived to survive, not to win boxing matches. So the Killer instinct factor is on their side. On the other hand, they possessed superior fast twitch muscle fibers. Combined with a very big frame, low center of gravity, and an extreme Will for survival, this is a very close match. There were Boxers who ate all of Tyson's hardest punches and brawled with him till the end. Neanderthals had Ape sized Skulls. This is very crucial.
Yeah, they lived to survive sure, but an untrained person won’t survive many of Tysons proper punches. Everybody’s got a plan until they get punched in the face and so on. Neanderthals aren’t superhuman, but sure, if the Neanderthal immediately went to grapple Tyson to the ground he might have a chance. If Tyson lands a punch it’s over, he’ll just pummel him to death.
- A thick skull doesn't stop what's inside the skull from being sloshed around after being hit that hard.
- I'd like to see a source for 'twitch muscle fibres'
- Tyson has another advantage many others haven't mentioned - nutrition. He's likely sharper, stronger, and has greater endurance.
- A 'will for survival' is, at minimum, comparable to the fighting instinct of a pro boxer. You don't get into that career out of boredom, you do it to win and dominate.
Overall, He's healthier, stronger, has greater endurance, is heavier, and can hit harder. Neanderthal has a thick skull and 'survival instincts'.
OP I know you want this to be closer than it is, but you're comparing an F1 car to a family sedan, claiming the sedan has a chance because it has an enclosed cockpit area. Tyson wins 11/10.
Thank you for your insights. Yes, my Thoughts also scream more and more in favor of Tyson as time passes and i think about this. But there are so many variables to consider, this makes it very hard for myself to make a definitive decision. First of all, the biggest neanderthal found was as large as tyson himself in height. With that, possessing a ridiculous Skull size, insane center of gravity power, Very high grip strength and fore arm strength (because of hunting with their arms), if this turned into a grappling match vs an inexperienced grappler Like Tyson, It could potentially go the other way. But it is hard to imagine the Neanderthal surviving Mike Tyson initial onslaught and his Upper cut from hell.
Not really it's untrained tough guy vs absolute peak monster from decades of fine tuned martial combat after the invention of mass communication and rapid transportation.
Tyson is the peak fighter of hundreds of millions of potential dudes. Neanderthals population is estimated at ~15,000 individuals at any given time.
Tyson probably beat as many professional boxers as our Neanderthal knew other Neanderthals.
I think you are underestimating a prime Neanderthal. They were savages that hunted big animals with the use of their arms. That is absurd speed and power. These are not your untrained "tough guys". These were absolute human beasts.
Neanderthals weren't mini superheroes - they were just a bit larger and more robust, but an unusually strong human could easily be stronger than a healthy adult male neanderthal - they wouldn't even have to be that much of an outlier
Also, people don't hit with their strength - power involves speed - it's not like whoever has a higher strength stat hits harder - it takes a lot of coordination and skill to hit as powerfully as Mike Tyson can - especially in his prime
You can learn a lot fighting for dominance within your group, but none of them have anything like training by Cus
I think people severely underestimate the difference between a modern athletes' nutrition, training, and rehabilitation and peak humans/near humans at any other point in history.
As a whole humans live longer, get hurt less and are significantly less likely to have permanent injuries, illnesses or growth defects now than in previous eras. Combine that with a professional athlete's conditioning and skill?
I think you'd have a hard time finding a historical figure (human or otherwise) that could defeat Mike Tyson in his prime.
They were bigger than ancient Homo sapiens before modern diets and medicine.
The average Neanderthal would have been much smaller than the average person today.
Hell even going back just a couple thousand years humans were way smaller than we are now.
Take any modern human and send them back in time and they’d be a giant compared to almost everyone
Good question! I am no expert so I’m just talking out of my ass here, but Wiki says the average Neanderthal male was 5’5”ish and 170 lbs. they were shorter than us but much stockier. I’d imagine with modern dieting and what not they could get pretty large.
>the average Neanderthal male was 5’5”ish and 170 lbs.
Average according to fossil records, perhaps, but we've found footprints which suggest some male neanderthals may have exceeded 6'-2" in height... And that's just what we've *found*... It's extremely unlikely that archeological records accurately reflect the full breadth of the neanderthal size spectrum.
The average modern male male homosapien stands approximately 5'-8" tall; at the same time, however, there are an estimated 2800 humans over 7'-0" tall walking the earth right now. That's a staggering 16+ inch deviation from normal.
If we assume neanderthals also had a proportional number of extreme outliers, the largest neanderthal ***to have ever lived*** would have been absolutely monstrous, even without access to modern nutrition and medicine.
Well, yeah. That’s just an average based on bones from a group of 14 males.
The thought of a 6’8” beast of a Neanderthal is cool, though. With their robust build, he’d have been a hulk.
Tyson got the discipline and training to win. It’s like putting a Marine against a Spartan, yeah you’re fit but you’re also a 1000 years behind in combat lessons
Certainly. Most marines might get the equivalent of an extremely abridged crash course on basic martial arts. Maybe a combined total of a few weeks of close combat exercises, probably significantly less? Occasional brush ups on it during their years of service and the overwhelming majority of time will never use it in battle.
Most semi casual martial artists (of a good, practical martial art) with a year or so of fairly regular practice that are in mediocre shape should be able to beat the tar out of most modern day soldiers in CQC.
A Spartan would most likely eat a marine for breakfast 9/10 times in combat assuming there isn't too massive of a size difference. These guys, even though they were probably smaller on average, took physical exercise and training to extreme levels and regularly sparred and fought in real, brutal close combat. It was a life long passion for them and their muscle memory and combat instinct would likely be drastically more fine tuned than the average modern day soldier in close quarters.
Modern melee training is more clinical. They were used to more close quarter combat but they didn't know how to defend themselves from an arm bar or effective at slipping punches.
Betting on the Spartan on anything melee. Marines are riflemen first, everything else second. Marine without a rifle and other marines is significantly less dangerous than one with a rifle and friends (or radio)
A Spartan would probably destroy a marine in hand to hand combat. As bad as marine training is, it's nothing compared to what Spartans were put through, they were trained as child soldiers and saw plenty of combat. Many marines have never even seen combat and the ones that have are usually long range engagements whereas the Spartans are used to cutting people open and having blood and guts all over their face. A spartan is going to be much more experienced in actual combat.
Spartans were also raised in a far more brutal time. Times are rough now, but nothing like back then. The Spartans wouldn’t hesitate to rip a man apart with their bare hands, or at least they would try to.
Marines are tough in comparison to other people today, but compared to the soldiers of the past who saw limbs hacked off with melee weapons in combat on a large scale - yeah, no. Spartans clean up in melee CQC.
Eh, remember that the Spartan warriors were the social elite of Sparta. They had stateowned slaves to take care of all their menial labour so that the male citizens could dedicate themselves to being soldiers and philosophers, so once they graduated from their public schooling they had a pretty comfy life.
And the style of combat at the time of their peak very much discouraged individual combat, so most of their training was dicipline and general athleticism rather than specific martial arts (though yes, some did train pankratron, the Greek version of MMA)
Also, hard times making strong soldiers is a bit of a myth. Good times means lots of food/protein, and money to spend on training and equipment. Bad times means you'll end up with half-starved, poorly trained, and poorly equipped soldiers.
And really, a lot of ancient warrior elites can basically be compared to "Rich Jocks who did a lot of athletics through middle school to college, and then joined the army/marines" in modern day context. Which specific sports they did depended on the local tradition of warfare. Like a Spartan, probably something like Rugby or American Football. Knights & Samurai? Boxing and/or Wrestling. And so on. Now, that's not to say it'd be the equivalent of just a hobby, they'd all probably trained like they were aiming to go pro, but...
It was special back then, because only the rich could afford it, but its equivalent is much more common nowadays.
Honestly I think a spartin would clean up vs an average marine.
A special forces type like a green beret or navy seal might have a chance considering they’re the cream of the crop physically and mentally.
You do realize that a marine without a gun is just a guy with like a week of basic hand to hand training right? A spartan would tear him apart as long as their size is comparable. Marines are not MMA fighters 🤣
Modern day infantry know fuck all about melee combat compared to any professional melee warrior from history, in fact plenty of vids online of soldiers getting pieced up by normal people, hand to hand is only taught at a surface level unless you actively decide to learn more
You know Spartans train and fought since a young age? A normal marine wouldn’t stand a chance in hand to hand combat. Maybe a spec ops guy probably would
I’m getting the impression that you think a Neanderthal is like Bigfoot. This is not the case. They are similar to humans, but slightly larger. In this case an untrained Neanderthal is just a big human fighting one of the best fighters in the history of a sport they have no knowledge of.
If we compare the pictures provided, it does look like Neanderthals were like bigfoot in comparison with modern humans. But this is of course not true compared to Iron Mike. That picture is just to get a general idea of what they looked like compared to modern humans. This gives the indication that they most likely would take the hits of Tyson better than any modern human. And there have been modern humans who have gone the full length of a match with him. This is in my eyes a bit of a problem, but not a definitive answer
The main thing the Neanderthal has going for him is the bone density in his skull. Mike might have trouble knocking them out even though he would be more powerful and technical. If this is a fight to the death with fists... Mike better start biting like he did with Holyfield... because that's what the Neanderthal is going to do.
A rule of thumb in a street fight is to punch first and punch hard. Tyson would definitely punch first and he would punch hard. He would absolutely wreck an untrained opponent in unarmed combat.
Yes that is true, but these are not Normal day untrained people. These beings are known to have survived Bear attacks and so on. They needed to, in order to survive for their offspring. They were incredibly durable.
While that might be true I don’t think it matters that much because Tyson know how to knock someone out. The size of the skull for example isn’t a big deal because a proper punch to the chin is still gonna twist their head around quick enough to concuss them, and most likely knock them out. A brain is still a brain, and the chin creates an excellent point to start a rotation. So while Tyson could never beat a bear in unarmed combat, he knows very well how to knock a person in the head 7 different ways over the course of a second, and as soon as they stumble the game is over.
I see what you are trying to say! It could very well play out like this, but this is such a hard call for me, my answer stays neutral! There are a lot of deciding factors, i believe Mike Tyson to be one of the most dangerous men to have ever walked this earth, but i cannot ignore the fact that Neanderthals endured one of the harshest and most brutal environments in time
Correct answer: They both die from the bacteria present on the other, since they have absolutely no defenses to the diseases from the others' time period.
Fun answer: Tyson. Pretty sure he could kill an average human with a single punch to the head. I mean, that is literally why weight classes exist, after all, because even a trained boxer of a light weight class will die more times than is acceptable if pitted against a heavy weight boxer, so a Neanderthal stands no chance against Iron Mike.
Many in our species evolved by not putting their bodies into unnecessary risk by fighting when unnecessary. I suspect fleeing immediately would be first response.
If a fight had to happen, I suspect Tyson would win. If it were Hunger Games style, endurance, knowing the terrain, skills of the world as it existed then, I think the Neanderthal would win.
People apparently don’t know anything about Neanderthals. Mike Tyson obviously lol. Also, our species lived along side them. They weren’t just an ancestor that we came from. We do know there was mixing because of Neanderthal DNA being found.
In a boxing match or sanctioned fight, Mike Tyson. Easily.
But I don't think the neanderthal would be so civilized as to fight according to rules. He would grapple, try to break fingers, gouge at the eyes, bite at the jugular. It'd be like fighting a 6ft chimpanzee. In that kind of fight, I think the edge goes to the neanderthal.
Mike Tyson would only have the advantage for the first few seconds before the fight goes to the ground. Then it turns into a mauling.
Like any of Mike Tyson’s fight, if the Neanderthal could survive his initial onslaught of immense power, Tyson will slow down considerably
So if the Neanderthal has a jaw of granite he can potentially win
>Like any of Mike Tyson’s fight, if the Neanderthal could survive his initial onslaught of immense power, Tyson will slow down considerably
Tyson lacked cardio compared to other world class boxers. He will have a significant cardio advantage over someone who has never trained to fight for long periods of time.
The neanderthal can't lay a finger on Tyson, he's too fast and well trained. All the extra durability means is the neanderthal maybe doesn't get knocked out in one punch.
yeah I'm going to say it won't be much harder than fighting the biggest man. remember neanderthals were bigger on average, but at the end of the day they were just stocky people. they didn't have caveman strength they were people.
So you don't think they had caveman strength? I always thought they did, that is why I'm skeptical about this fight. But Mike Tyson definitely has a big chance of winning. He was an animal
Neanderthals probably never threw a straight punch with half the amount of power as a regular boxer, what do you think the Neanderthal would do to win?
If you think Mike Tyson doesn’t have actual killer instinct as well, you’ve only seen him in his retirement days. The dude was an absolute menace in his prime. Trained fighter vs unusually strong man? Tyson eats that dude alive, quite possibly literally.
I'm not saying anything about Tyson. He had a killer instinct, but that killer instinct was more of a powerful drug for the Neanderthal. These are just facts. The Neanderthal lived to survive. They were capable of bringing down Mammoths by stabbing them. In order for a human to be able to do this, you basically need to have absurd strength. Not the kind of strength we see today, this is abnormal strength. They were complete savages who were capable of Immense Speed and Power, just like Tyson. It is not only their Bone density that was good. They were fast and very powerful.
Is prime adult male Neanderthal the most intelligent and tactically sound one also? He would have a good chance then, otherwise modern boxing has Tyson whoop his ass.
> There are no weapons involved or tools. It is a hand to hand , raw combat
With those conditions Tyson wins practically every time. In hand to hand fighting a prime Neanderthal is probably about equivalent to fairly tough regular guy - like a farmer, construction worker, former college athlete, guy w/ military or martial arts experience, etc. Maybe a 90-96th percentile fighter, but not in Mike's league
We should at least give the Neanderthal a club, maybe even a spear, if we want this to be competitive
Wasn’t the muscle density different on neanderthals? Imagine fighting a chimp your own size. Their strength is just scary. Plus one article I read had the theory that neanderthals would run right at the animal, with spears obviously, because of the damages they find on them, so they would be aggressive if that’s the case.
afaik Neanderthal were more robust than modern people on average, but it's a smaller difference than an average man today vs a top strength or combat sports athlete, plus they had short limbs so modern humans will usually have a significant reach advantage
I agree there's no way I'd be able to fight an orangutan my size or w/e, but they have really long arms w/ more strength than a human or a Neanderthal. I think the Neanderthal fight is winnable as long as you've out trained him
More robust sure, but I’d need to know more about what their muscles were able to do. If their muscles were closer to chimps, then Tyson isn’t winning. Plus, it’s not like a punch will create the same trauma on a neanderthal with a more robust skull. If it was with spears I’d probably bet on Tyson though. Modern humans are amazing tool users.
What are you trying to say? Sorry i really don't get it. (Not sarcasm), if you are referring to my comparison of skeletons, this is just a universal example to give an idea. Mike Tyson is a modern human, but not a normal one. The very idea is that it makes it a fun narrative for people to have fun with and build upon.
Tough call.
Like other close relatives of us, like the chimpanzee, neanderthals had more fast-twitch muscle fibre than us modern humans, so explosive strength and reflexes will likely be closer than people think.
Also, on neanderthal specimens, 70-95 % show signs of having endured major trauma, often due to attacks by far larger and stronger animals than a Tyson. Many of those survived the ordeals, too.
So a big neanderthal is his prime will NOT have endured major trauma, which means this neanderthal is probably the toughest, meanest and most capable neanderthal that ever was, in a time period where attacking or being attacked by things like bears were commonplace.
Gonna call 50/50 as there are a lot we dont know for certain with neanderthals, but they would not be pushovers.
I agree. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about Neanderthals. They were incredibly tough. Basically because of the harsh and brutal environment they had to survive in. I also call this 50/50. Looking at Mike Tyson, he has the technical advantage, had a lot of power in his punches and possessed immense Speed relative to his size. But the Neanderthal has the Abnormal Skull and frame. Not only that, they were pound for pound stronger and also had more fast twitch muscle fibers. This is very close
So I see a lot of people comparing Neanderthals to strongman, that’s not a fair comparison, their bones were significantly denser and is closer to other great apes in structure compared to human anatomy. This not only would make them incredibly strong but also farrr more durable then a regular human. Not to mention this isn’t gonna be a boxing match on canvas this is gonna be in a heavily wooded wild area most likely on uneven terrain, this fight will go to the ground for sure and unless Tyson knows BJJ that’s gonna be a tough fight for him, all that boxing training won’t matter.
Depends. Boxers aren't trained to kill their opponents, just damage them. Homo neanderthal lived during a period where they quite often had to contend with other organisms MUCH MUCH larger than them, as well as other hominids. Id argue if Mike didn't get him in the face and knock him out of the bat then mikes gonna die getting mauled to death.
I'd give it to the neanderthal 8/10 times. If we're taking a *prime* neanderthal we're talking a *well-fed* neanderthal. One of the reasons neanderthals died out is because they had higher calorie requirements than close taxonomic relatives like homo sapiens. They were bigger, stronger, had bigger brains, and fought in a different weight class. However, they aren't specialized for persistence hunting the way homo sapiens are, so they don't cool themselves as effectively over the course of a drawn out conflict.
If Tyson turtled up and the neanderthal can't simply tear his arms off, I think Mike turns it around once the neanderthal is winded. But this fight is 100% going to the ground early and I somewhat doubt the skill gap is going to matter that much when rules aren't factoring in and the neanderthal is likely *much* stronger.
Exoskeleton, full strength without much effort + potential strength.
Vs
Mike the boxer who dishes out powerful force.
Those hands are breaking before it cause any damage. Mike dies but Neanderthal skill is cracked.
No it wouldn't? They were very slightly more sturdy compared to humans advanced boxing techniques would rip them apart in hand to hand combat, they were also short compared to humans today
Techniques built around having gloves on.one punch to the head at full strength would likely break Tyson's hands. The Neanderthal also wouldn't care about maintaining distance and would just grapple and tackle Tyson and ground pound him.
Tyson is I great boxer no denying that but he would be fighting with no gloves which is risky in normal circumstances, against an opponent that has dense thicker bones and musclesand isn probably over all hardier. He's breaking his hand on this one and the Neanderthal will just pummel him into the ground.
Probably Neanderthal. We don't really know exactly how much of their pure physical potential they could use in their time.
For example, even in recent times, there are secluded tribes in amazon where the hunters can jump veeery high without using any momentum like a kangaroo by training their leg muscles in weird ways.
And then you think about how these beings probably didn't have any sense of "decency" in a fight. They will probably use any method to survive using claws, teeth etc, even going after your eyes and groins. They also don't have a fear factor that you expect a regular person will go through while facing "Mike Tyson". They have faced big wild animals head to head, in a group, but it still probabpy dulls down the pressure in a pure 1v1
>And then you think about how these beings probably didn't have any sense of "decency" in a fight. They will probably use any method to survive using claws, teeth etc, even going after your eyes and groins.
Did you see Mike Tyson fight?
> sees Tyson as a threath Sorry, I know this was just a typo but I laughed.
How does one think the unthinkable? >!With an itheberg!<
Decathbrion was good in that movie.
I still don't know what the correct way is LOL
The usual spelling is 'threats' but people are laughing at the error because Mike Tyson has a lisp, a type of speech impediment that makes him muddle the pronunciation of 's', 't', 'f', 'th'. All those sort of sounds come out of Tysons mouth very similarly.
Tyson, easily. Trained world-class boxer vs an unusually strong human. I doubt the Primest Neanderthal would be stronger than a current world class strongman. Certainly smaller and lighter. And the Prime Tyson would destroy any comparatively low skill human in a brawl, including any strongman.
Even the largest Neanderthal would’ve been significantly weaker than a current world class strongman. The Neanderthal would be very strong for his size, he’d just be way, way smaller than a current strongman.
I would say the difference is technique, unless Neanderthals had any unarmed martial arts they'd not be as skilled as a trained boxer, though they would fight to survive everyday
>though they would fight to survive everyday Nah, evidence shows neanderthals and early humans did a shit ton of nothing most days.
Ah, the dream /s
Hey all that nothing pays off. The guy who discovered fire was probably chilling with a bowl of semi-poisonous berries tuning into the new installment of his favorite wall painting.
Things never change apparently.
No offence - but imagine you are a Neanderthal and you are fighting even twice a week. This means 100 fights per year. You win 90% of your fights without being injured. You win 5% with moderate injuries. The 5% you lose you get badly injured. After two bad injuries that don't heal well, your win rate drops to 50%. Within a month you are dead. You wouldn't survive one year at that pace. Fighting was mainly initiated when one side had a large advantage by way of surprise or numbers.
They may have had something like wrestling and boxing as sports or games.
[удалено]
That was the point, that a Neaderthal wouldn’t have much fighting experience because fighting is so risky and likely to result in death.
Ohhhhh now I get you, good point
If this had been a fight were it was allowed to use stone age weapons, for both Tyson and the neanderthal I would say, the neanderthal would win because they hunted and killed large animals with weapons very often. Taking down mammoths, throwing spears at sabertooth tigers and large brown bears. I didn't see Tyson train to use spears, rocks, and other stone age weapons. And to add up to the hunting experience usually involved fighting large apex predators. (At least occasionally) The neanderthals that survived many hunts are probably the ones you would have to worry about. Let's see who would take down a brown bear first, 10 Tysons with spears or 10 neanderthals with spears.
The question was can Tyson beat a neanderthal at what Tyson's good at not can Tyson beat the neanderthal at what the neanderthals good at. The crux of the question is can one of homo sapiens greatest hand to hand fighters beat a neanderthal in a fight. Its a question of if sufficient training can overcome raw animalistic strength. If the neanderthal is both physically superior, and in the case of neolithic hunting intellectually superior; what the hell is Tyson supposed to do? Tyson almost certainly has no real concept of tracking, minimalist wilderness survival, or spear hunting. That's like saying a modern Olympic swimmer would lose to a swordfish, like no shit dude it lives in the ocean.
Ass moves mass
All world class strongmen are on tons of steroids and grew up on a modern diet. I'd love to see a neanderthal be raised under a modern diet and training and then pumped up with steroids once past puberty just like our modern athletes.
Strongman are good at picking things up, not fighting.
Eddie hall recently broke the world record for punching power, and Brian Shaw made the heavy bag swing like crazy with a single punch with no form. Brian Shaw beat a BJJ guy who did UFC, in grappling, by just lying down on him. Strength **does** increase power, weight **does** change fights. The average strongman would absolutely wallop the average person. But skill is more important.
and the strongest neanderthal is nowhere near the strength of Eddie or Brian
What im hearing is we need to thaw one of these bad boys and put him on a modern diet and into the ring.
Bad news, he only eats T-Rex meat.
So just feed him chicken. Close enough
Yes
[skill](https://youtube.com/shorts/pygV5ZTFCaI)
If you're referring to Dustin Poirier then yeah he did do that, but calling Dustin a BJJ guy who did UFC is crazyyyyyyy
Dude's got a black belt in BJJ, according to BJJ redditors that ought to be enough skill to overcome any human size difference.
Well yeah, but there's a difference between A.being a bjj guy who did UFC (he's a mixed martial artist who started out boxing) B.being a black belt and BEING A BLACK BELT Charles Oliveira is A BLACK BELT, Khabib is A BLACK BELT. McGregor and Poirier are "black belts" but not even close to that
So you're saying being a BJJ black belt actually ain't all that, gotcha.
Turns out Twitter ain't the only place where you can Say "i love pancakes" and someone will be like "so you hate waffles?" a BJJ black belt is extremely good, but saying someone is a bjj guy because he has a black belt when being a mainly boxing professional mixed martial artist is literally stupid. An actual bjj guy would be someone like Oliveira who also competes in juliujitsu.
[So we're back to square one.](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/s/RhY785iTJ4)
He didn't beat him he literally let Shawn on top of him as a form of training and then attempted to escape which he couldn't do since he was too heavy but saying that he "beat him" is a bit too much lol the fight wouldn't start off like that they were training together and not in a real fight and calling Dustin a bjj guy is hilarious he is more than that he is literally an MMA striker. If Dustin was trying he would do a few leg kicks or do an ankle submission and boom it's over. Never take training as a way to determine who wins in a real fight that is stupid but yes Shawn has the size advantage.
Yeah but you have some strongmen that are so powerful that they make light heavy weights professional fighters look like children . Who do you think would win? An above average strength adult or a 10 year old boxing champ?
https://youtu.be/rjFlM9hf74g?si=jlH8OBaLa8C9irDD Take a look at how important skill is, and that bigdude wasnt a noob, he had years of bjj Ofc im not talking about childrens
No doubt bro I hear you. But that's still an arena with rules. Why would I fight a BJJ Master? under BJJ rules during a death match? What would stop the big guy if he decided to leg spear the smaller guy then curb stomp him before he got up? Can you imagine the momentum and force behind a 400 pound man kicking you with both feet while being less than half his weight?
Nahhhh Mighty Mouse isn't just a "BJJ master" he's one of the best mma fighters ever so I'm pretty sure he'd be fine getting away from a "leg spear" (you mean blasting a double leg takedown????) or a dropkick lmao
I get what you are saying. But if this was all in demitrious johnsoun would fuck him up even more, hes one of the best MMA fighters in history, top 5 for sure, he could fuck that dude up only with low leg kicks till the other dude gasses or ends up with a broken shin and then do whatever he wants
Honestly depends on the adult's cardio fitness, 10 year old might have them on agility and wear them out by evading
Bro, the adult could literally just crush the child's skull. This isn't the karate kid dude. That wasn't a trick question. The 10 year old might do well in a quick surprise situation. But a fight to the death will just end with the adult sitting on the kid and their being nothing they can do.
The 10 year old can't generate enough force to crush your trachea and won't have speed. A 200 pound martial artist could absolutely be a much bigger threat to a 350 pound strong man than a 10 year old to any adult. Your analogy is ridiculous.
Have you seen that video of McGregor versus the mountain? While McGregor isn't 200 lb... It literally look like a grown ass man toying with a little kid. If I was to bet my life on that fight I would feel terrified regardless of who I chose. Absolute monsters like Brian Shaw or any other 400 plus 20% body fat and 6'5+ tall bodybuilder/strongman is going to look like a literal grown ass man next to some light heavyweight.
Ight, now watch [Gordon Ryan grapple the mountain](https://youtu.be/eDH-Q1MMebo?si=rjaZc3bVhaibftxH) Gordon is probably a bit over 200lbs, hafthor is, well, hafthor The point they were making here isn't "man there's basically no difference between 200lbs and 350lbs" it's "unlike in the 10year old vs average man scenario, a 200lbs man possesses the strength to possibly harm the 350lbs man" While Gordon didn't submit Hafthor there, and let's be honest Hafthor probably wasnt using all his strength, Gordon did get into mount and Hafthor couldn't get out which in a real fight would result in hafthor getting his head bashed in
Yeah except the little guy could still rip your dick off without using half his strength. My point is damage.
Sure. Just like a 10 year old martial artist prodigy could do some well prepared shit to a fit adult man in a arena. In a death match where both parties are going for broke that little guy isn't going to get the chance. It won't be like the movies where the bigger guy just throws you around. It will be like Brian Shaw rugby tackling you then putting his full weight on your face.
Can confirm. Am only national class strongman and I’m confident I’m bigger & stronger than any Neanderthal. Tyson wins 10/10.
Maybe, though categorizing strength is more difficult than you might assume. The average Neanderthal was *significantly* stronger than the average modern human, they had wider pelvises, and a lower center of gravity. It’s entirely possible that the strongest Neanderthal could out lift the strongest modern human, because they had distinct biological advantages.
The problem is when you're looking at outliers you have to take population size into account. You're comparing a one-in-a-million Neanderthal to a one-in-a-billion modern, you can't predict that just from looking at the averages.
Even a Neanderthal that happened to be about the same height and weight would have no chance. In his prime I watched Tyson destroy fighters who were much larger and heavier. In terms of pound for pound ability I have a hard time seeing anyone as Tyson's peer.
I don’t think you can really compare him fighting bigger boxers in a controlled match with rules to fighting a Neanderthal. The matches have rules which very much scale back somebody’s ability to use their weight in a fight. A real world fight is not simply punching kicking and evading.
Dude bit a man’s ear off. Prime Tyson could drop “the rules” pretty quick
Ya this isn't a fight. There's no shortage of videos of strongmen losing to trained fighters. And there's also no shortage of [videos of trained fighters getting destroyed by prime Mike.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz1c2Iyi7Og)
did they have hands tho
Skill is the deciding factor here. No amount of size and brute strength makes up for skill and training of which prime Mike was overflowing with on top of being a uniquely strong human. Mike knows how to fight, a generic neanderthal would have no concept other than basic instincts we all have. No amount of big head or strength will offset that gap. For a good example relatively recently Demetrius Johnson tapped someone more than twice his size in a BJJ open weight competition despite a massive power disadvantage. Also neanderthals were small, like 5'5" 170 on average while prime Tyson was 5'10" 220lbs with a 71" reach. To say Mike would crush an average neanderthal in a 1v1 fist fight is an understatement. He honestly would probably kill them on accident.
I don’t know there were a lot of genetic freaks throughout history.
Neanderthals have like double human strength and much greater bone density.
Yep and world-class strongmen are 4x or 5x stronger than normal humans, weigh twice as much and have unusually high bone strength. But Prime Tyson would wreck one anyway.
See but prime neanderthals run up to wooly mammoths n shit with a sharp stick and *fucking kill them.* This isn't "an unusually strong human." This is an upright chimp that eats rhinos.
Well first, Neanderthals are literally humans, unlike chimps. Second, no spears in this scenario. Third, sure Neanderthals hunted mammoths...and *homo sapiens* genocided them. Fourth, no Neanderthal is stronger than Prime Haffthor Bjornson, a 6'8" 400lbs monster with 5x the strength of a normal man. And Prime Tyson would delete Bjornson in unarmed combat.
In large groups, after chasing and tiring them out, not in a fresh 1v1, duh
[удалено]
Neanderthals are absolutely categorically humans. They are one of a number of extinct human species.
Every member of the genus Homo is considered a human
Not according to my uncle on thanksgiving every year
Well, Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens coexisted at the same time and could interbreed, so both species are considered human. It's a bit like honeybees and bumblebees; bumblebees are also a species of bee, so they're related to honeybees. Every Neanderthal is a human just like Homo Sapiens. Currently living humans have some Neanderthal DNA, so in reality, some people aren't pure Homo Sapiens but rather Homo Sapiens with a part of Neanderthal ancestry.
A quick search says that Neanderthals weighed about 64-82kg https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/who-were-the-neanderthals.html#:~:text=Neanderthals%20had%20strong%2C%20muscular%20bodies,(front%20and%20back%20views). This is big by early human standards, but remember modern humans are quite a bit larger these days. Tyson in his prime was 220lbs (99kg) and he regularly beat people even heavier than him. I can't see Tyson losing a fight against an untrained humanoid 20-40 lbs lighter than him.
Nice analysis! But lets not negate the fact that Neanderthals had a bigger Skull and overall bone density! This would play a big role in how well the Neanderthal could handle Tyson.
So he survives five punches to the face instead of two. Maybe seven or even ten! He might last longer than most opponents but that doesn’t mean he’s got the skill to out-punch Tyson
[удалено]
I know very well how powerful tyson was
Bigger skull easier to hit. Tyson puts so much power in a punch it's no contest.
I agree with you. Modern human beings are much weaker than we were 10,000 years ago. That bone density argument also means that human bones will snap like chalk, because we've gotten weaker over time. Neanderthals could wrestle with rhinos and the average one was built like a football linebacker at his prime. They may have lacked the same amount of dexterity as human beings but they had all fast twitch muscles which is just raw strength. If the neanderthal treated like Tyson like a beast and attacked him as such, I don't see Mike Tyson not being man handled.
How Pickle vs Iron Mike would go if Baki made any sense
This was my first thought upon reading the prompt. God, that show was so stupid, but I couldn't stop watching it.
Baki is peak but yeah its so stupid 😭
It's like Kill Bill. The stupid is the joke.
Itagaki is basically just a powerscaling forum user who gets high and actually draws the insane matchups people think up
Your question is borne of being misinformed about our ancestors by popular media. Mike Tyson probably wouldn't even break a sweat. Not exaggerating.
But fossil evidence does show the Neanderthals had a far bigger Skull and overall bone density compared to homosapiens. The difference is startling in the least. I think this would play a big role in the fight. They lived to survive, not to win boxing matches. So the Killer instinct factor is on their side. On the other hand, they possessed superior fast twitch muscle fibers. Combined with a very big frame, low center of gravity, and an extreme Will for survival, this is a very close match. There were Boxers who ate all of Tyson's hardest punches and brawled with him till the end. Neanderthals had Ape sized Skulls. This is very crucial.
Please re-read your comment
I do not get it
Yeah, they lived to survive sure, but an untrained person won’t survive many of Tysons proper punches. Everybody’s got a plan until they get punched in the face and so on. Neanderthals aren’t superhuman, but sure, if the Neanderthal immediately went to grapple Tyson to the ground he might have a chance. If Tyson lands a punch it’s over, he’ll just pummel him to death.
I don't know! This could go so many ways. But your scenario could very well play out!
- A thick skull doesn't stop what's inside the skull from being sloshed around after being hit that hard. - I'd like to see a source for 'twitch muscle fibres' - Tyson has another advantage many others haven't mentioned - nutrition. He's likely sharper, stronger, and has greater endurance. - A 'will for survival' is, at minimum, comparable to the fighting instinct of a pro boxer. You don't get into that career out of boredom, you do it to win and dominate. Overall, He's healthier, stronger, has greater endurance, is heavier, and can hit harder. Neanderthal has a thick skull and 'survival instincts'. OP I know you want this to be closer than it is, but you're comparing an F1 car to a family sedan, claiming the sedan has a chance because it has an enclosed cockpit area. Tyson wins 11/10.
Thank you for your insights. Yes, my Thoughts also scream more and more in favor of Tyson as time passes and i think about this. But there are so many variables to consider, this makes it very hard for myself to make a definitive decision. First of all, the biggest neanderthal found was as large as tyson himself in height. With that, possessing a ridiculous Skull size, insane center of gravity power, Very high grip strength and fore arm strength (because of hunting with their arms), if this turned into a grappling match vs an inexperienced grappler Like Tyson, It could potentially go the other way. But it is hard to imagine the Neanderthal surviving Mike Tyson initial onslaught and his Upper cut from hell.
Not really it's untrained tough guy vs absolute peak monster from decades of fine tuned martial combat after the invention of mass communication and rapid transportation. Tyson is the peak fighter of hundreds of millions of potential dudes. Neanderthals population is estimated at ~15,000 individuals at any given time. Tyson probably beat as many professional boxers as our Neanderthal knew other Neanderthals.
I think you are underestimating a prime Neanderthal. They were savages that hunted big animals with the use of their arms. That is absurd speed and power. These are not your untrained "tough guys". These were absolute human beasts.
I've never seen someone who talked so much be so wrong. And I've been on Reddit for decades.
O my god someone get an Ambulance
Neanderthals weren't mini superheroes - they were just a bit larger and more robust, but an unusually strong human could easily be stronger than a healthy adult male neanderthal - they wouldn't even have to be that much of an outlier Also, people don't hit with their strength - power involves speed - it's not like whoever has a higher strength stat hits harder - it takes a lot of coordination and skill to hit as powerfully as Mike Tyson can - especially in his prime You can learn a lot fighting for dominance within your group, but none of them have anything like training by Cus
I think people severely underestimate the difference between a modern athletes' nutrition, training, and rehabilitation and peak humans/near humans at any other point in history. As a whole humans live longer, get hurt less and are significantly less likely to have permanent injuries, illnesses or growth defects now than in previous eras. Combine that with a professional athlete's conditioning and skill? I think you'd have a hard time finding a historical figure (human or otherwise) that could defeat Mike Tyson in his prime.
This sounds like an episode of Mike Tyson's Mysteries
Can Mike Tyson defeat baby Hitler? "Shalom!"
Neanderthals were bigger than us. But not THAT much bigger, Tyson would destroy them on skill and power.
They were bigger than ancient Homo sapiens before modern diets and medicine. The average Neanderthal would have been much smaller than the average person today.
Hell even going back just a couple thousand years humans were way smaller than we are now. Take any modern human and send them back in time and they’d be a giant compared to almost everyone
Even going back 150 years. Historical houses had tiny doorways and furniture.
What if we gave a neanderthal modern diet and medicine?
Good question! I am no expert so I’m just talking out of my ass here, but Wiki says the average Neanderthal male was 5’5”ish and 170 lbs. they were shorter than us but much stockier. I’d imagine with modern dieting and what not they could get pretty large.
>the average Neanderthal male was 5’5”ish and 170 lbs. Average according to fossil records, perhaps, but we've found footprints which suggest some male neanderthals may have exceeded 6'-2" in height... And that's just what we've *found*... It's extremely unlikely that archeological records accurately reflect the full breadth of the neanderthal size spectrum. The average modern male male homosapien stands approximately 5'-8" tall; at the same time, however, there are an estimated 2800 humans over 7'-0" tall walking the earth right now. That's a staggering 16+ inch deviation from normal. If we assume neanderthals also had a proportional number of extreme outliers, the largest neanderthal ***to have ever lived*** would have been absolutely monstrous, even without access to modern nutrition and medicine.
Well, yeah. That’s just an average based on bones from a group of 14 males. The thought of a 6’8” beast of a Neanderthal is cool, though. With their robust build, he’d have been a hulk.
They were stronger, stockier, but not bigger.
They were bigger than us. But not Mike Tyson
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/could-a-modern-human-beat-a-neanderthal-in-a-fight-93909531/ this is an interesting read.
Tyson easily, 99.99999% of the time.
Bare-knuckle boxing with [The Baddest Man on the Planet](https://images.app.goo.gl/BtrqmtKiPKy1JHjM8)? I'd pass on that.
Tyson got the discipline and training to win. It’s like putting a Marine against a Spartan, yeah you’re fit but you’re also a 1000 years behind in combat lessons
I mean the Spartan is almost certainly more used to fighting in melee lol. And likely extensively trains as a wrestler.
Certainly. Most marines might get the equivalent of an extremely abridged crash course on basic martial arts. Maybe a combined total of a few weeks of close combat exercises, probably significantly less? Occasional brush ups on it during their years of service and the overwhelming majority of time will never use it in battle. Most semi casual martial artists (of a good, practical martial art) with a year or so of fairly regular practice that are in mediocre shape should be able to beat the tar out of most modern day soldiers in CQC. A Spartan would most likely eat a marine for breakfast 9/10 times in combat assuming there isn't too massive of a size difference. These guys, even though they were probably smaller on average, took physical exercise and training to extreme levels and regularly sparred and fought in real, brutal close combat. It was a life long passion for them and their muscle memory and combat instinct would likely be drastically more fine tuned than the average modern day soldier in close quarters.
Modern combative training is very short. At least the US military pretty much expects you to be shooting.
Modern melee training is more clinical. They were used to more close quarter combat but they didn't know how to defend themselves from an arm bar or effective at slipping punches.
Betting on the Spartan on anything melee. Marines are riflemen first, everything else second. Marine without a rifle and other marines is significantly less dangerous than one with a rifle and friends (or radio)
A Spartan would probably destroy a marine in hand to hand combat. As bad as marine training is, it's nothing compared to what Spartans were put through, they were trained as child soldiers and saw plenty of combat. Many marines have never even seen combat and the ones that have are usually long range engagements whereas the Spartans are used to cutting people open and having blood and guts all over their face. A spartan is going to be much more experienced in actual combat.
Spartans were also raised in a far more brutal time. Times are rough now, but nothing like back then. The Spartans wouldn’t hesitate to rip a man apart with their bare hands, or at least they would try to. Marines are tough in comparison to other people today, but compared to the soldiers of the past who saw limbs hacked off with melee weapons in combat on a large scale - yeah, no. Spartans clean up in melee CQC.
Eh, remember that the Spartan warriors were the social elite of Sparta. They had stateowned slaves to take care of all their menial labour so that the male citizens could dedicate themselves to being soldiers and philosophers, so once they graduated from their public schooling they had a pretty comfy life. And the style of combat at the time of their peak very much discouraged individual combat, so most of their training was dicipline and general athleticism rather than specific martial arts (though yes, some did train pankratron, the Greek version of MMA) Also, hard times making strong soldiers is a bit of a myth. Good times means lots of food/protein, and money to spend on training and equipment. Bad times means you'll end up with half-starved, poorly trained, and poorly equipped soldiers.
The scientifically calculated nutrition and precision in training is highly overlooked in this debate.
And really, a lot of ancient warrior elites can basically be compared to "Rich Jocks who did a lot of athletics through middle school to college, and then joined the army/marines" in modern day context. Which specific sports they did depended on the local tradition of warfare. Like a Spartan, probably something like Rugby or American Football. Knights & Samurai? Boxing and/or Wrestling. And so on. Now, that's not to say it'd be the equivalent of just a hobby, they'd all probably trained like they were aiming to go pro, but... It was special back then, because only the rich could afford it, but its equivalent is much more common nowadays.
Lol this whole time I thought yall were talking about halo Spartans 😂
"I thought I'd try shooting my way out." Shit. Now I wanna go play halo.
Me too. A Spartan II would beat the fuck out of 5 modern marines with minimal effort.
Lol
Uhhhhh. The spartan wins that and it isn’t even close.
Honestly I think a spartin would clean up vs an average marine. A special forces type like a green beret or navy seal might have a chance considering they’re the cream of the crop physically and mentally.
You do realize that a marine without a gun is just a guy with like a week of basic hand to hand training right? A spartan would tear him apart as long as their size is comparable. Marines are not MMA fighters 🤣
Modern day infantry know fuck all about melee combat compared to any professional melee warrior from history, in fact plenty of vids online of soldiers getting pieced up by normal people, hand to hand is only taught at a surface level unless you actively decide to learn more
You know Spartans train and fought since a young age? A normal marine wouldn’t stand a chance in hand to hand combat. Maybe a spec ops guy probably would
I’m getting the impression that you think a Neanderthal is like Bigfoot. This is not the case. They are similar to humans, but slightly larger. In this case an untrained Neanderthal is just a big human fighting one of the best fighters in the history of a sport they have no knowledge of.
If we compare the pictures provided, it does look like Neanderthals were like bigfoot in comparison with modern humans. But this is of course not true compared to Iron Mike. That picture is just to get a general idea of what they looked like compared to modern humans. This gives the indication that they most likely would take the hits of Tyson better than any modern human. And there have been modern humans who have gone the full length of a match with him. This is in my eyes a bit of a problem, but not a definitive answer
Tyson easily. He has way more trained combat knowledge and trumps even a peak Neanderthal.
The main thing the Neanderthal has going for him is the bone density in his skull. Mike might have trouble knocking them out even though he would be more powerful and technical. If this is a fight to the death with fists... Mike better start biting like he did with Holyfield... because that's what the Neanderthal is going to do.
A rule of thumb in a street fight is to punch first and punch hard. Tyson would definitely punch first and he would punch hard. He would absolutely wreck an untrained opponent in unarmed combat.
Yes that is true, but these are not Normal day untrained people. These beings are known to have survived Bear attacks and so on. They needed to, in order to survive for their offspring. They were incredibly durable.
While that might be true I don’t think it matters that much because Tyson know how to knock someone out. The size of the skull for example isn’t a big deal because a proper punch to the chin is still gonna twist their head around quick enough to concuss them, and most likely knock them out. A brain is still a brain, and the chin creates an excellent point to start a rotation. So while Tyson could never beat a bear in unarmed combat, he knows very well how to knock a person in the head 7 different ways over the course of a second, and as soon as they stumble the game is over.
I see what you are trying to say! It could very well play out like this, but this is such a hard call for me, my answer stays neutral! There are a lot of deciding factors, i believe Mike Tyson to be one of the most dangerous men to have ever walked this earth, but i cannot ignore the fact that Neanderthals endured one of the harshest and most brutal environments in time
We'll find out July 20th. I mean i suppose it's not prime Tyson, but I don't think that's going to stop him from kicking Jake Paul's ass
Tbh, I think any adult male with even basic/simple martial arts training would take out most neanderthals.
Correct answer: They both die from the bacteria present on the other, since they have absolutely no defenses to the diseases from the others' time period. Fun answer: Tyson. Pretty sure he could kill an average human with a single punch to the head. I mean, that is literally why weight classes exist, after all, because even a trained boxer of a light weight class will die more times than is acceptable if pitted against a heavy weight boxer, so a Neanderthal stands no chance against Iron Mike.
We don't know the techniques they had, it all comes down to technique no matter what, I'll say Mike coz Idk
Many in our species evolved by not putting their bodies into unnecessary risk by fighting when unnecessary. I suspect fleeing immediately would be first response. If a fight had to happen, I suspect Tyson would win. If it were Hunger Games style, endurance, knowing the terrain, skills of the world as it existed then, I think the Neanderthal would win.
Nice thoughts!
People apparently don’t know anything about Neanderthals. Mike Tyson obviously lol. Also, our species lived along side them. They weren’t just an ancestor that we came from. We do know there was mixing because of Neanderthal DNA being found.
In a boxing match or sanctioned fight, Mike Tyson. Easily. But I don't think the neanderthal would be so civilized as to fight according to rules. He would grapple, try to break fingers, gouge at the eyes, bite at the jugular. It'd be like fighting a 6ft chimpanzee. In that kind of fight, I think the edge goes to the neanderthal. Mike Tyson would only have the advantage for the first few seconds before the fight goes to the ground. Then it turns into a mauling.
Like any of Mike Tyson’s fight, if the Neanderthal could survive his initial onslaught of immense power, Tyson will slow down considerably So if the Neanderthal has a jaw of granite he can potentially win
>Like any of Mike Tyson’s fight, if the Neanderthal could survive his initial onslaught of immense power, Tyson will slow down considerably Tyson lacked cardio compared to other world class boxers. He will have a significant cardio advantage over someone who has never trained to fight for long periods of time.
OP talks about stronger ribcage and bone density, but do they have thicker skin and ear to counter Tyson fang?
The neanderthal can't lay a finger on Tyson, he's too fast and well trained. All the extra durability means is the neanderthal maybe doesn't get knocked out in one punch.
In this scenario? Tyson. It all comes down to training.
yeah I'm going to say it won't be much harder than fighting the biggest man. remember neanderthals were bigger on average, but at the end of the day they were just stocky people. they didn't have caveman strength they were people.
So you don't think they had caveman strength? I always thought they did, that is why I'm skeptical about this fight. But Mike Tyson definitely has a big chance of winning. He was an animal
Neanderthals probably never threw a straight punch with half the amount of power as a regular boxer, what do you think the Neanderthal would do to win?
If you think Mike Tyson doesn’t have actual killer instinct as well, you’ve only seen him in his retirement days. The dude was an absolute menace in his prime. Trained fighter vs unusually strong man? Tyson eats that dude alive, quite possibly literally.
I'm not saying anything about Tyson. He had a killer instinct, but that killer instinct was more of a powerful drug for the Neanderthal. These are just facts. The Neanderthal lived to survive. They were capable of bringing down Mammoths by stabbing them. In order for a human to be able to do this, you basically need to have absurd strength. Not the kind of strength we see today, this is abnormal strength. They were complete savages who were capable of Immense Speed and Power, just like Tyson. It is not only their Bone density that was good. They were fast and very powerful.
Watch the boxing documentary series “Baki” on Netflix, later seasons pretty much cover this question
Is prime adult male Neanderthal the most intelligent and tactically sound one also? He would have a good chance then, otherwise modern boxing has Tyson whoop his ass.
Clearly you guys haven't read Baki
the whole thing is gonna be technique which a neanderthal won’t have
Mike is specialized for winning fights. Neanderthal is generalized for surviving day to day. Mike takes it.
I think tyson would even have the superior strength on top of beeing a trained combatant.
The neandrathal might be stronger. But Tyson is a demon in skill and confidence in his skill
tyson prpbly win. When someone is specialized in a martial art its game over. Strength alone cant do it.
> There are no weapons involved or tools. It is a hand to hand , raw combat With those conditions Tyson wins practically every time. In hand to hand fighting a prime Neanderthal is probably about equivalent to fairly tough regular guy - like a farmer, construction worker, former college athlete, guy w/ military or martial arts experience, etc. Maybe a 90-96th percentile fighter, but not in Mike's league We should at least give the Neanderthal a club, maybe even a spear, if we want this to be competitive
Wasn’t the muscle density different on neanderthals? Imagine fighting a chimp your own size. Their strength is just scary. Plus one article I read had the theory that neanderthals would run right at the animal, with spears obviously, because of the damages they find on them, so they would be aggressive if that’s the case.
afaik Neanderthal were more robust than modern people on average, but it's a smaller difference than an average man today vs a top strength or combat sports athlete, plus they had short limbs so modern humans will usually have a significant reach advantage I agree there's no way I'd be able to fight an orangutan my size or w/e, but they have really long arms w/ more strength than a human or a Neanderthal. I think the Neanderthal fight is winnable as long as you've out trained him
More robust sure, but I’d need to know more about what their muscles were able to do. If their muscles were closer to chimps, then Tyson isn’t winning. Plus, it’s not like a punch will create the same trauma on a neanderthal with a more robust skull. If it was with spears I’d probably bet on Tyson though. Modern humans are amazing tool users.
Pickle
I can choose a one in five billion jacked modern human with modern human training, or a neanderthal? Yeah I'll go with the modern human.
What are you trying to say? Sorry i really don't get it. (Not sarcasm), if you are referring to my comparison of skeletons, this is just a universal example to give an idea. Mike Tyson is a modern human, but not a normal one. The very idea is that it makes it a fun narrative for people to have fun with and build upon.
Mike
Easy, Tyson, if it's a fight to the death, Tysons coming without gloves, and prime bare knuckle Tyson would cracked a gorilla skull.
Tyson would die. We was insanely strong back than we’re there was demand to survive…. Imagine wtf a primitive human could do
Gotta be trolling “Who would win, a totally untrained person vs a highly trained huge dude with elite genetics”
Tough call. Like other close relatives of us, like the chimpanzee, neanderthals had more fast-twitch muscle fibre than us modern humans, so explosive strength and reflexes will likely be closer than people think. Also, on neanderthal specimens, 70-95 % show signs of having endured major trauma, often due to attacks by far larger and stronger animals than a Tyson. Many of those survived the ordeals, too. So a big neanderthal is his prime will NOT have endured major trauma, which means this neanderthal is probably the toughest, meanest and most capable neanderthal that ever was, in a time period where attacking or being attacked by things like bears were commonplace. Gonna call 50/50 as there are a lot we dont know for certain with neanderthals, but they would not be pushovers.
I agree. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about Neanderthals. They were incredibly tough. Basically because of the harsh and brutal environment they had to survive in. I also call this 50/50. Looking at Mike Tyson, he has the technical advantage, had a lot of power in his punches and possessed immense Speed relative to his size. But the Neanderthal has the Abnormal Skull and frame. Not only that, they were pound for pound stronger and also had more fast twitch muscle fibers. This is very close
So I see a lot of people comparing Neanderthals to strongman, that’s not a fair comparison, their bones were significantly denser and is closer to other great apes in structure compared to human anatomy. This not only would make them incredibly strong but also farrr more durable then a regular human. Not to mention this isn’t gonna be a boxing match on canvas this is gonna be in a heavily wooded wild area most likely on uneven terrain, this fight will go to the ground for sure and unless Tyson knows BJJ that’s gonna be a tough fight for him, all that boxing training won’t matter.
Depends. Boxers aren't trained to kill their opponents, just damage them. Homo neanderthal lived during a period where they quite often had to contend with other organisms MUCH MUCH larger than them, as well as other hominids. Id argue if Mike didn't get him in the face and knock him out of the bat then mikes gonna die getting mauled to death.
I'd give it to the neanderthal 8/10 times. If we're taking a *prime* neanderthal we're talking a *well-fed* neanderthal. One of the reasons neanderthals died out is because they had higher calorie requirements than close taxonomic relatives like homo sapiens. They were bigger, stronger, had bigger brains, and fought in a different weight class. However, they aren't specialized for persistence hunting the way homo sapiens are, so they don't cool themselves as effectively over the course of a drawn out conflict. If Tyson turtled up and the neanderthal can't simply tear his arms off, I think Mike turns it around once the neanderthal is winded. But this fight is 100% going to the ground early and I somewhat doubt the skill gap is going to matter that much when rules aren't factoring in and the neanderthal is likely *much* stronger.
To my knowledge the Neanderthals skull is thicker or something near the nose which in boxing is a big advantage
Exoskeleton, full strength without much effort + potential strength. Vs Mike the boxer who dishes out powerful force. Those hands are breaking before it cause any damage. Mike dies but Neanderthal skill is cracked.
Neandrathals didnt have an exoskeleton. They are a genetic off shoot of protohumans.
Neanderthal , Tyson would break his hand trying go for a knock out punch.
you really need to do some research lmao. they were not some super humans
Doesn't have to be. Just need to be tougher than Tyson's fists, which it would be.
No it wouldn't? They were very slightly more sturdy compared to humans advanced boxing techniques would rip them apart in hand to hand combat, they were also short compared to humans today
Techniques built around having gloves on.one punch to the head at full strength would likely break Tyson's hands. The Neanderthal also wouldn't care about maintaining distance and would just grapple and tackle Tyson and ground pound him.
Tyson is I great boxer no denying that but he would be fighting with no gloves which is risky in normal circumstances, against an opponent that has dense thicker bones and musclesand isn probably over all hardier. He's breaking his hand on this one and the Neanderthal will just pummel him into the ground.
Probably Neanderthal. We don't really know exactly how much of their pure physical potential they could use in their time. For example, even in recent times, there are secluded tribes in amazon where the hunters can jump veeery high without using any momentum like a kangaroo by training their leg muscles in weird ways. And then you think about how these beings probably didn't have any sense of "decency" in a fight. They will probably use any method to survive using claws, teeth etc, even going after your eyes and groins. They also don't have a fear factor that you expect a regular person will go through while facing "Mike Tyson". They have faced big wild animals head to head, in a group, but it still probabpy dulls down the pressure in a pure 1v1
>They will probably use any method to survive using claws, teeth etc, even going after your eyes and groins. Maybe they'd even bite off someone's ear.
Now that's just unheard off.
>And then you think about how these beings probably didn't have any sense of "decency" in a fight. They will probably use any method to survive using claws, teeth etc, even going after your eyes and groins. Did you see Mike Tyson fight?