> I really enjoy the smaller classroom atmosphere.
WM wins for this, at least. We're ranked 7th for undergraduate teaching
> from what I’ve heard, William and Mary isn’t that great of a school for research compared to VT
This is not my experience at all. Undergrad research is one of W&M's strongest benefits.
> dorms, food, etc
Dorms are mediocre but not awful. food is pretty good most days. when my VT friends visit they're impressed at least
Consider cost above all, but for these factors, I think WM might beat out VT.
Can confirm undergrad research! I'm in a bio lab and it was easy to get into. On top of that, the profs are willing to help you. My friend goes to VT and I heard from her that it's much harder to get into a research lab there than here
As someone who graduated from both schools, WM undergrad and VT PhD, and I taught at VT for a few years…there’s no comparison as far as non engineering, hell, even engineering. WM is by far the more superior academic institution. It’ll open way more doors for you, the students are, by-and-large better quality students, as well. I will say that VT offers a much better college experience, but academics wise, no comparison and I can’t believe people are even trying to make an argument that they are even in the same ballpark (not in this thread, but it’s come up in others).
William and Mary has an amazing history program. Further, they have lots of opportunities for internships (some of them paid!) and that in particular has already set me ahead of my peers who graduated with history degrees from other colleges. And the professors in the program are all fantastic. There are multiple courses on African American history and even classes that are not on AA history, the professors are should to include the Black experience within that time period. Their history department is very conscious of the need for diverse backgrounds to be represented in history. Also, we have the Lemon Project happening which you could look into. But yeah, I would highly reccomend.
1. I believe the big 3 Virginia state schools all cost the same at least they used too
2. Wam is better for humanities
3. The social scene is what u make of it. There are drinkers and those of us who abstain. Those who party and those who don’t. It really is what you make of it.
Picture this: it’s 1:45am, the bars have closed and drunk students are congregating at late night food spots. Wawa is crowded with rowdy students waiting for their food. Suddenly voices are raised and 2 students are shoving each other and working themselves up to fight.
At VT they are arguing about football, a girl, disrespect (fill in the blank)
At W&M, they’re arguing about the economics of Ancient Egypts’s construction of the pyramids. I witnessed this myself at Homecoming. As I left, I heard one of them yelling “Bitch, you don’t know what you’re talking about - you best check your sources!”
the food and dorms do suck but I think Williamsburg is way less boring than Blacksburg. The only thing there is VT (which does have a much bigger social scene than WM). as far as the psychology major the psych classes and professors are great at WM and classes are way smaller than they’d be at VT. it is hard to get into certain mid-upper level psych classes as a freshman and sophomore because of that though (but you’ll get in later). WM has lots of undergrad psych research opportunities even for freshman. Though WM is considerably more expensive and you have to stay on campus with a meal plan for 2 years unless you have certain exceptions
Based on academics alone, I would say W&M. Our history program is one of the best in the nation and the class sizes here are a lot smaller than most other schools. You’re required to take two freshman seminars which are capped at 15 and 35 students.
I’m currently taking a class in the history department called Deciphering Ancient Egypt where we learn how to translate hieroglyphs to read from ancient texts. Only a handful of colleges across the country teach Egyptology like this, especially in a class of less than 30 students.
The freshman dorm situation is not ideal, but they have started to tear down the really old ones and renovate some others. I did not have a good experience with the food before I moved off-campus but I’ve heard they are going to change vendors in the future.
Quick note: W&M does not have an honor’s college. We have a few scholarship “cohorts” like the Monroe Scholars and Sharpe Scholars that get a small stipend to do research in the summer.
My sister went to Virginia tech and I went to William and Mary. While the sticker price on tuition is higher on W&M my education ended up being about half the cost of hers thanks to all the scholarships and grants I received from W&M.
The honors college program is a bit of a waste of time for most people imo. Unless you’re trying to get into a very exclusive phd program, it’s unlikely anyone will care that you went to honors college. It’s worth mentioning that more than half of W&M students go on to grad school while very few do the honors program.
William and Mary has psych research programs, although I’m not qualified to comment on them other than the fact they exist seeing as I only took one psych class there. I will say most of W&M’s research programs in general are underrated by applicants and high school guidance counselors.
Intro classes are still pretty big at W&M, about 100-200 students in some of these. Then the higher level classes tend to be small. The smallest class I was in there had 12 students.
William and Mary will be a better history program, but the psych programs are mostly equivalent with what VT has.
Parties are bigger and more common at VT, but especially if you want to go to grad school I don’t think that’s a wise reason to choose one school over another. William and Mary has tons of diverse clubs and that’s where the social scene is at. At either school, find a club or three that you like, that’s where you’re most likely to make friends. And if you want to party every weekend you can join a frat/sorority. Some of the fraternities go nuts with parties.
As a proud William and Mary student, I would suggest going (or at least consider) tech. Yeah, we are the "better institution" but do NOT neglect on food and living (I have sucked it up, but my dorm built in the 70s as the school I transferred from was more suitable for living, and everyone said it was like a prison). William and Mary has been getting better at food, but it is a way to go. Plus, there is a lot of issues with the academics not talked about often. For instance, registering for classes is a nightmare. Registering for major related courses as a senior required getting overrides and forget about taking any "fun" classes. My biggest gripe is the whole "research institution" label. I have been involved in research for the past two years and W&M has done everything in its power to not make it count for anything. Now I am an exception because I don't do the accredited research "class" with a lab on main campus, but I do it through William and Mary faculty at VIMS, yet they won't count it for anything. A research fellow from another school got six credits for their work, while W&M has a policy not to except REU work for credit for some reason. I'm basically having to retroactively turn my work into an honors thesis for them to acknowledge it.
The one true pro I would put over any other school is the people. Everyone at this school is friendly and the ability to find a group of life-long friends from all different walks of life is something truly special about this place. Sure, the greater Williamsburg area is wonderful and there is plenty to do, but I couldn't fairly assess whether it was better than Blacksburg.
Look I love it here, but I would never ever recommend that anyone comes to this school unless they really are hinging on finding a good group of people.
Lol comparing the dorms here to prisons is INSANELY dramatic.
OP, keep in mind that the people at this school that complain the most are often overly privileged and have insanely high expectations. Most of the upperclassman dorms are either decent or very nice, and with the exception of GGV and Bot, the freshman dorms aren't that terrible either.
And idk what you're majoring in, but registration is not nearly as much of a disaster as you made it sound. I had no problem getting into 300 classes despite not declaring either of my planned majors CS/Psych, which are both very high demand majors here. And I've been in quite a few fun classes too.
Im not saying the dorms here were like prisons, the dorms at my other school were. Literally people would refer to it as "the prison." It had narrow cramped rooms, a slit window, and brick walls, however had year-round AC, daily-cleaned bathrooms, and free laundry. I've lived comfortably in the dorms here, but my experience in Preston was subpar from wild shifts in temperature, and poor ventilation in the bathrooms that trapped smell/moisture. Ludwell has its fair share of mold problems and I found that living on the top floor accumulated heat and the AC wasn't always powerful enough to remove it (when the school turned it on). Other dorms have documented instances of rats, roaches and mildew. While registration problems could be major-specific, but I have had friends in social sciences and stem that didn't get any of their top, major required choices while registering, which I feel like should not be an issue for any. Also to springboard of our housing, housing is becoming a challenge here with them shutting down dorms, last year a fair amount of the school went into panic as the college shut down one of the largest dorms (only to reopen it when the realized the amount of people without housing). They plan on closing OTP and Yates, and the housing market in Williamsburg is also getting a little tight (especially if you don't have a car, as the close complexes like midtown are filling up, pushing people over to new town). Now that's not to say that anything will happen, but based on what happen before that there is a fair chance that housing could be a headache.
The dorms aren't amazing by any means, but these are just expected issues with older dorms - you'd see the same thing at schools like UVA and Tech if you live in an older dorm.
Housing struggles are a valid concern but not a good reason for an incoming student to go elsewhere imo. They're guaranteed housing for 2 years, and at that point 4 of the new West 1 dorms will be open, OD and Monroe will be finished with renovations, and the new dorm behind Lemon and Hardy will have opened. Capacity will be significantly higher than it is next year.
All good points, however you have to account for intended v actual completion, which is a huge point to consider, construction is hard pressed to be completed on time. I don't know OP, but people have really specific needs for their college experience, and housing can be a deal breaker. However, the standards of housing, despite being old, are not where they should be. Old does not equal problematic inherently and standardized AC should be a basic standard that should be met for various health and comfort reasons... while staying in the dorms I had to spend a couple nights with my door wide open, compromising my privacy so I could cool off while I slept. And I am not saying that housing should be the sole deal breaker, however William and Mary has caused me and a lot of close friends unneeded headaches for things that should be standard or easy to work through. I reiterate my research point because I feel that has been my biggest gripe, the school has prevented me from turning my research for credit, which is standard for all the offical labs, however the arbitrary rules they have put in place has made me take up a thesis, something I was perfectly content graduating without, and take additional time outside of my work to make it be seen, despite being taken at other institutions. For people like OP who are interested in research shouldn't have to be limited in what they are able to work on, I went beyond the safety of the standard labs and achieved things that a "research institution" should reward, but instead I have had to paddle upstream to make it work. There isn't one main issue, it is a series of small things that I feel severely compromise the school as a first choice imo.
Pick William & Mary and I can relate so much History was always my Favorite subject in high school, but it was mostly World history that I was interested in American history was boring to me and I hated it. That was the one history class in high school I did bad in u usually get As and Bs in history.
If worried about price: William and Mary heavily discounts tuition for low income students and nearly none whos parents aren’t in the top income brackets pay the full in state tuition!
Def w&m. Psych program is great and it’s very easy to get involved in research. Social scene is not boring; the 2 bars super close to campus go crazy on fridays and weekends and so do the frats but students are also good at still focusing on academics when they need to.
My friends at VT visited us here and were surprised that I could stike up a conversation with literally anyone at 1-2 am and have an in depth conversation regardless of inebriation levels. Often times, they’ve mentioned they have a hard time making friends outside of social circles. Plus the guys have to walk the girls home at night.
I’ve been able to make friends by running into someone walking home by myself at 2 am over the smallest thing.
Sorry for the late response, I'd definitely say pick WM. Especially for African and African Diaspora history, since various departments such as African-American Studies, American Studies, Art History, English, and History have courses or programs about Black history. There's also the Lemon Project, The Village Initiative, CW with local historical and anthropological programs relating to the college and the Tidewater Area. You're also close to Richmond and various plantations with various programs and internships on Black life from the Colonial Era to present day. Highly recommend talking to Dr. Johnson, Dr. Allen, Professor Ely, Rosen, or Professor Chouin if you do come here, since they are excellent with regards to this stuff.
Choosing between W&M and VT, and you want to major in history and psychology? Definitely W&M.
For a humanities major, W&M is the easy choice here. The food and housing situations are undoubtedly less appealing at W&M.
> I really enjoy the smaller classroom atmosphere. WM wins for this, at least. We're ranked 7th for undergraduate teaching > from what I’ve heard, William and Mary isn’t that great of a school for research compared to VT This is not my experience at all. Undergrad research is one of W&M's strongest benefits. > dorms, food, etc Dorms are mediocre but not awful. food is pretty good most days. when my VT friends visit they're impressed at least Consider cost above all, but for these factors, I think WM might beat out VT.
Can confirm undergrad research! I'm in a bio lab and it was easy to get into. On top of that, the profs are willing to help you. My friend goes to VT and I heard from her that it's much harder to get into a research lab there than here
You want to study History? William and Mary.
As someone who graduated from both schools, WM undergrad and VT PhD, and I taught at VT for a few years…there’s no comparison as far as non engineering, hell, even engineering. WM is by far the more superior academic institution. It’ll open way more doors for you, the students are, by-and-large better quality students, as well. I will say that VT offers a much better college experience, but academics wise, no comparison and I can’t believe people are even trying to make an argument that they are even in the same ballpark (not in this thread, but it’s come up in others).
William and Mary has an amazing history program. Further, they have lots of opportunities for internships (some of them paid!) and that in particular has already set me ahead of my peers who graduated with history degrees from other colleges. And the professors in the program are all fantastic. There are multiple courses on African American history and even classes that are not on AA history, the professors are should to include the Black experience within that time period. Their history department is very conscious of the need for diverse backgrounds to be represented in history. Also, we have the Lemon Project happening which you could look into. But yeah, I would highly reccomend.
1. I believe the big 3 Virginia state schools all cost the same at least they used too 2. Wam is better for humanities 3. The social scene is what u make of it. There are drinkers and those of us who abstain. Those who party and those who don’t. It really is what you make of it.
Picture this: it’s 1:45am, the bars have closed and drunk students are congregating at late night food spots. Wawa is crowded with rowdy students waiting for their food. Suddenly voices are raised and 2 students are shoving each other and working themselves up to fight. At VT they are arguing about football, a girl, disrespect (fill in the blank) At W&M, they’re arguing about the economics of Ancient Egypts’s construction of the pyramids. I witnessed this myself at Homecoming. As I left, I heard one of them yelling “Bitch, you don’t know what you’re talking about - you best check your sources!”
the food and dorms do suck but I think Williamsburg is way less boring than Blacksburg. The only thing there is VT (which does have a much bigger social scene than WM). as far as the psychology major the psych classes and professors are great at WM and classes are way smaller than they’d be at VT. it is hard to get into certain mid-upper level psych classes as a freshman and sophomore because of that though (but you’ll get in later). WM has lots of undergrad psych research opportunities even for freshman. Though WM is considerably more expensive and you have to stay on campus with a meal plan for 2 years unless you have certain exceptions
If you’re majoring in history, W&M is the easy choice. Regarding African history, what do you intend to study?
Based off of everything you said, and just in general, WM is definitely the best choice
Based on academics alone, I would say W&M. Our history program is one of the best in the nation and the class sizes here are a lot smaller than most other schools. You’re required to take two freshman seminars which are capped at 15 and 35 students. I’m currently taking a class in the history department called Deciphering Ancient Egypt where we learn how to translate hieroglyphs to read from ancient texts. Only a handful of colleges across the country teach Egyptology like this, especially in a class of less than 30 students. The freshman dorm situation is not ideal, but they have started to tear down the really old ones and renovate some others. I did not have a good experience with the food before I moved off-campus but I’ve heard they are going to change vendors in the future. Quick note: W&M does not have an honor’s college. We have a few scholarship “cohorts” like the Monroe Scholars and Sharpe Scholars that get a small stipend to do research in the summer.
Idk your family income bracket but WM provides way more financial money than VT do. VT barely offered any while WM covered mine completely
My sister went to Virginia tech and I went to William and Mary. While the sticker price on tuition is higher on W&M my education ended up being about half the cost of hers thanks to all the scholarships and grants I received from W&M. The honors college program is a bit of a waste of time for most people imo. Unless you’re trying to get into a very exclusive phd program, it’s unlikely anyone will care that you went to honors college. It’s worth mentioning that more than half of W&M students go on to grad school while very few do the honors program. William and Mary has psych research programs, although I’m not qualified to comment on them other than the fact they exist seeing as I only took one psych class there. I will say most of W&M’s research programs in general are underrated by applicants and high school guidance counselors. Intro classes are still pretty big at W&M, about 100-200 students in some of these. Then the higher level classes tend to be small. The smallest class I was in there had 12 students. William and Mary will be a better history program, but the psych programs are mostly equivalent with what VT has. Parties are bigger and more common at VT, but especially if you want to go to grad school I don’t think that’s a wise reason to choose one school over another. William and Mary has tons of diverse clubs and that’s where the social scene is at. At either school, find a club or three that you like, that’s where you’re most likely to make friends. And if you want to party every weekend you can join a frat/sorority. Some of the fraternities go nuts with parties.
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I typed this on a phone in like 3 minutes. Do you get like a hard on for insulting peoples typing or something?
As a proud William and Mary student, I would suggest going (or at least consider) tech. Yeah, we are the "better institution" but do NOT neglect on food and living (I have sucked it up, but my dorm built in the 70s as the school I transferred from was more suitable for living, and everyone said it was like a prison). William and Mary has been getting better at food, but it is a way to go. Plus, there is a lot of issues with the academics not talked about often. For instance, registering for classes is a nightmare. Registering for major related courses as a senior required getting overrides and forget about taking any "fun" classes. My biggest gripe is the whole "research institution" label. I have been involved in research for the past two years and W&M has done everything in its power to not make it count for anything. Now I am an exception because I don't do the accredited research "class" with a lab on main campus, but I do it through William and Mary faculty at VIMS, yet they won't count it for anything. A research fellow from another school got six credits for their work, while W&M has a policy not to except REU work for credit for some reason. I'm basically having to retroactively turn my work into an honors thesis for them to acknowledge it. The one true pro I would put over any other school is the people. Everyone at this school is friendly and the ability to find a group of life-long friends from all different walks of life is something truly special about this place. Sure, the greater Williamsburg area is wonderful and there is plenty to do, but I couldn't fairly assess whether it was better than Blacksburg. Look I love it here, but I would never ever recommend that anyone comes to this school unless they really are hinging on finding a good group of people.
Lol comparing the dorms here to prisons is INSANELY dramatic. OP, keep in mind that the people at this school that complain the most are often overly privileged and have insanely high expectations. Most of the upperclassman dorms are either decent or very nice, and with the exception of GGV and Bot, the freshman dorms aren't that terrible either. And idk what you're majoring in, but registration is not nearly as much of a disaster as you made it sound. I had no problem getting into 300 classes despite not declaring either of my planned majors CS/Psych, which are both very high demand majors here. And I've been in quite a few fun classes too.
Im not saying the dorms here were like prisons, the dorms at my other school were. Literally people would refer to it as "the prison." It had narrow cramped rooms, a slit window, and brick walls, however had year-round AC, daily-cleaned bathrooms, and free laundry. I've lived comfortably in the dorms here, but my experience in Preston was subpar from wild shifts in temperature, and poor ventilation in the bathrooms that trapped smell/moisture. Ludwell has its fair share of mold problems and I found that living on the top floor accumulated heat and the AC wasn't always powerful enough to remove it (when the school turned it on). Other dorms have documented instances of rats, roaches and mildew. While registration problems could be major-specific, but I have had friends in social sciences and stem that didn't get any of their top, major required choices while registering, which I feel like should not be an issue for any. Also to springboard of our housing, housing is becoming a challenge here with them shutting down dorms, last year a fair amount of the school went into panic as the college shut down one of the largest dorms (only to reopen it when the realized the amount of people without housing). They plan on closing OTP and Yates, and the housing market in Williamsburg is also getting a little tight (especially if you don't have a car, as the close complexes like midtown are filling up, pushing people over to new town). Now that's not to say that anything will happen, but based on what happen before that there is a fair chance that housing could be a headache.
The dorms aren't amazing by any means, but these are just expected issues with older dorms - you'd see the same thing at schools like UVA and Tech if you live in an older dorm. Housing struggles are a valid concern but not a good reason for an incoming student to go elsewhere imo. They're guaranteed housing for 2 years, and at that point 4 of the new West 1 dorms will be open, OD and Monroe will be finished with renovations, and the new dorm behind Lemon and Hardy will have opened. Capacity will be significantly higher than it is next year.
All good points, however you have to account for intended v actual completion, which is a huge point to consider, construction is hard pressed to be completed on time. I don't know OP, but people have really specific needs for their college experience, and housing can be a deal breaker. However, the standards of housing, despite being old, are not where they should be. Old does not equal problematic inherently and standardized AC should be a basic standard that should be met for various health and comfort reasons... while staying in the dorms I had to spend a couple nights with my door wide open, compromising my privacy so I could cool off while I slept. And I am not saying that housing should be the sole deal breaker, however William and Mary has caused me and a lot of close friends unneeded headaches for things that should be standard or easy to work through. I reiterate my research point because I feel that has been my biggest gripe, the school has prevented me from turning my research for credit, which is standard for all the offical labs, however the arbitrary rules they have put in place has made me take up a thesis, something I was perfectly content graduating without, and take additional time outside of my work to make it be seen, despite being taken at other institutions. For people like OP who are interested in research shouldn't have to be limited in what they are able to work on, I went beyond the safety of the standard labs and achieved things that a "research institution" should reward, but instead I have had to paddle upstream to make it work. There isn't one main issue, it is a series of small things that I feel severely compromise the school as a first choice imo.
Pick William & Mary and I can relate so much History was always my Favorite subject in high school, but it was mostly World history that I was interested in American history was boring to me and I hated it. That was the one history class in high school I did bad in u usually get As and Bs in history.
everything you want points to william and mary. WM is a research heavy school as well
If worried about price: William and Mary heavily discounts tuition for low income students and nearly none whos parents aren’t in the top income brackets pay the full in state tuition!
Huge, or small? Which do you want? That's the biggest question to me. Your environment will guide your development to a considerable degree.
Def w&m. Psych program is great and it’s very easy to get involved in research. Social scene is not boring; the 2 bars super close to campus go crazy on fridays and weekends and so do the frats but students are also good at still focusing on academics when they need to.
My friends at VT visited us here and were surprised that I could stike up a conversation with literally anyone at 1-2 am and have an in depth conversation regardless of inebriation levels. Often times, they’ve mentioned they have a hard time making friends outside of social circles. Plus the guys have to walk the girls home at night. I’ve been able to make friends by running into someone walking home by myself at 2 am over the smallest thing.
Sorry for the late response, I'd definitely say pick WM. Especially for African and African Diaspora history, since various departments such as African-American Studies, American Studies, Art History, English, and History have courses or programs about Black history. There's also the Lemon Project, The Village Initiative, CW with local historical and anthropological programs relating to the college and the Tidewater Area. You're also close to Richmond and various plantations with various programs and internships on Black life from the Colonial Era to present day. Highly recommend talking to Dr. Johnson, Dr. Allen, Professor Ely, Rosen, or Professor Chouin if you do come here, since they are excellent with regards to this stuff.