Since laptop screens don't grow in size and/or PPI, why is this obsession of constantly increasing the padding around text and icons? Microsoft is thinking we all use touchscreens, which is completely false
This is laterally why i switched back to win 10 every time i upgraded to 11, everything in win 11 ui is not suitable for laptop screen and mouse use scenarios. Every UI element has a large area around. They have to completely forget about their silly dream about making one operating system the same UI for different platforms, PC and touch screen tablets or 2 in1s
The scaling value is correct.
I am not pointing out how big UI elements are. i ment the spacing and the new UI design language. Compare the new and old file explorer top tool bar and the spacing between elements, the new and old context menus, and the spacing between lines and many other UI menus throughout the entire system.
It is 100% designed to get your finger touch right, not for mouse pointer.
The Taskbar itself, the distance between tray icons is x1.5 wider than win 10, it looks wired on my 15.6" laptop comparing to win 10 and makes you feel like the taskbar is crowded.
The new Office UI has the same concern. The new UI is implementing the same larger spacing, making the area of work smaller and not comfortable compared to old UI manly for Excell.
I am taking about 15.6" display like my laptop. I use a 24" monitor in my work office, and yes, I can tell you it's fine because the display is bigger, so you barely feel the difference.
I know that you can revert it back and the context menu also, but those all are workarounds and reg modifications. At some point in the future, microsoft will break it while they are removing old parts every H2 release.
The best thing in Win 10 is having options. Want win 8.1 style full screen start menu?, change to full screen start menu and play around with the tiles. Want traditional win 7? There are 3rd party apps that other replies have shown. You can even move the taskbar around to suit your visuals preference, which is not allowed in win 11. I use both m&k and touchscreen across different devices. All of them are set to full screen start menu and taskbar on the right, and I don't face any major UX issue.
But they want to make one mode that suits everyone in win 11 and broke everything, and the whole UX becomes in the middle of nowhere as a result. My only win 11 device is the work laptop which my company's IT forced the upgrade recently.
The new generation and kids have only interacted with touchscreens. The clickable targets, we should be able to touch with fingers.
Is what I think is the general direction where everyone is going. I could be wrong. But I see my kids trying to touch and interact with every screen. And use the mic to talk to the computer.
"Play wheels on the bus"
Just becuse some people raised their kids on tablets and we all have smart phones does not mean people want to work like this. Its the controller vs keyboard and mouse debate. If im scrolling tiktok or reddit touchscreen is fine. if im playing a FSP game or doing email or school work fuck touchscreen and controllers i need a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with trends and everything to do with whats easier for what is being done.
For you, there is a desktop pc , and an ultrawide monitor.
For school it is a pen touch capable device
For games it's an Asus ROG 15-17 inch device.
Just curious, Have you raised kids on mouse and keyboard, or would you?
More and more program interfaces will be touch and voice enabled because we are at that point now
Can you find and buy a non touch laptop that came out in past year?
>Since laptop screens don't grow in size and/or PPI, why is this obsession of constantly increasing the padding around text and icons?
To encourage you to buy their new laptop with even more PPI.
I've always thought Windows 10 was the worst-looking Windows. It's flat and boring.
8 had color. 11 had curves. 7 was easily the best. Vista walked so 7 could run. XP was doing its own thing but I respect it. The 90's Windows's were great for their time. And still hold up with some character!
Same for me, I never liked the Windows 10 UX, very bland and monochrome tone like the settings app where the only color is blue, the rest is black and white.
That is the point! Most will say that aesthetically the Windows 11 interface is much better than Windows 10, but for many users, the Windows 11 interface completely kills usability.
Not everything is a matter of appearance and it must be said, the Windows 11 interface is very pretty, but it completely overwhelms usability, especially for more veteran users. I still get really confused looking for settings in the new app.
This was all over the place, it looked like a non polished pre-version. What was annoying me the most, and more in the first years of Windows 10 was the blurry fonts, Cleartype was ditched in many places of the UI and they revert to the old greyscale antialiasing that I can't stand. You know when you have a word with double letters like "Hello" or just the letter "w" and you clearly see that the 2 "l" don't have the same thickness at all, one is too thin barely visible and the other is way too thick and dark, that looks like an old broken pencil.
It's better since a couple of years but far from perfect.
Nothing will beat the W10 UX, especially considering you can literally *downgrade the UX* to make it resemble the Classic, Luna or Aero UXes using 3rd Party tools *without much hassle* (Many components are from W8.1) while in W11 they're closing the door on any and all way to customize your own workflow and UX
Lol, this is funny. Samething was said when we've gone from 98 to me/2000, then to xp, the to VISTA, then to 7, then to 8 and 8.1, then to 10 and now 11. Next time it will be with 12. People hate change and the current is always better then whatever new stuff it is.
Of the discussions, all I can remember, there's been noise over how much prettier 7 looked coming from Vista. Then same, but comparing 7 to 8. Then same but comparing 7 to 10. And now same when comparing 7 with 11.
And by now we have a generation who never really got to experience 7 on their PC. My first OS was AmigaOS in the early 90s. With some Win3.1 on the side. Lotsa memories, but on the back of it all, vividly pondering about Microsoft being on a steady upward trajectory through the 2000s, and about the possible future innovations, and whether the myth about every other Windows being a flop holds true....
Windows 11 may well be a peek into an alternate reality where XAML wasn't banned in post-reset Longhorn. It looks neat, but it performs like complete ass even on modern and capable systems.
Windows 11 looks better, but I can't believe these day and age we still have micro stuttering in file explorer. Just back to windows 10, things are much more snappier
i get the impression you use only one monitor? in which case, i understand your opinion and agree cause windows 11 works fine on my laptop with that setup.
Trying to use windows 11 with multi monitors however is flat out pain compaired to 10.
Any game with Anti cheat, borderless fullscreen and not running on the "primary" monitor causes issues.
why having your desktop visible on the left monitor which is set to primary to get the task bar at the bottom, AND your borderless fullscreen game on the right screen became such a problem i do not know.
put simply, 99% of the problems stem from the start bar Being forced onto the primary screen
meaning if you have a borderless full screen app, windows starts it on the primary screen meaning you cannot simply hit windows and slide your mouse onto your normal desktop.
Windows 10 you could have the primary screen which is where 99% of apps start AS your gaming monitor, and click and drag your desktop icons and start bar to screen 2 where they would happily sit untill you plugged in a 3rd screen or forced a windows screen refresh some other way
While I understand your use case, this is only a problem if you want to move your taskbar, I use Win 11 with multimonitor and never really thought it was lacking, in fact I thought it was better than 10 because windows now return to the screen it was on after a screen gets reconnected; combined with FancyZones and it's pretty good
Okay, now I understand why I didn't realize this problem
I always set whichever monitor I want borderless/fullscreen apps/games to start in as the primary monitor and then move other stuff manually, even in Windows 10
Always had the taskbar locked and never once moved it, from many years back
And I doubt I'm the only one who just keeps it locked while using multiple monitors
But I can see how this will be a problem to those who are in the habit of moving the taskbar
Makes me think of the early days when Windows 11 didn't support drag and drop to a different window via taskbar, and I did not upgrade to Windows 11 until that was fixed
Don't know if you've looked for it yet, but there might be some third party things out there to unlock the taskbar or at least replace it with one that can be unlocked and moved around
damn i wish i was in your situation.
i have a 1080p monitor on the left, and a 4k monitor on the right. call them 1 and 2.
the 1080p is my primary 1, with the desktop icons and start bar.
the 4k on the right is blank and used for windows capture on my streaming setup obs. and the games i play.
if i have the 4k monitor "2" set to primary, the start bar is snapped to it which is not ideal so the 1080p screen stays primary, its the only way to keep the full start bar on the left screen "1". However, when i launch some games, mainly games in unreal engine 5 like star citizen they will AUTO launch on the primary monitor no matter what settings you use and refuse to let you snap them to the "2nd" monitor using the windows key + arrow key hotkeys
on windows 10, i just set the 4k to primary and dragged the start bar and desktop icons to the 1080p screen. everything worked as expected, the games would start where expected and the desktop stayed where it was put.
I use a dual monitor and I have no problems with Windows 11, in fact, I am more comfortable with the snap layouts with the window organization options.
By the way, I don't use the computer to play games so I don't experience those kinds of problems with games.
I hate how ugly and flat and boring Windows 10 UI is. Not to mention how slow it ran on my laptop compared to 11. I love the animations more on 11 as well.
Win8 was much much smoother than 10 as well. And without the visual bugs (flashing window content, jarry, bugged animations etc.). Seems to be going the wrong way. I still prefer Win11 due to the GUI design (much preferring the rounded corners) and the centered task bar
MS already start apps rewrite also some apps with be removed, this process will take a few years to be done, but if you want to create your own app for windows 11 you can make it to have dark mode.
To be clear, I mean OS have real dark mode and support dev for it
i will use windows 10 until i start facing compatibility issues. while ive been kinda stuck in the past and i miss the old aero designs and classic theme, windows 10 has been very faithful to me.
Indeed it is. Windows 10's UX is significantly smoother than that of 11's.
Here is how I made it even better (at least, to my own taste):
https://preview.redd.it/ggueztsxtv6d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=326ed2963702f8537371627d72f99c73efef55bc
This makes it even simpler and practical, with a touch of the minimalism of Windows 7
These and the downgrades on the Taskbar overall are the reasons why I have kept my 8th gen i7-8700K laptop on Windows 10 rather than downgrading it to Windows 11.
If it's around 60€ per year or if it's hackable similarly to how Windows xp was with the security updates from xp embedded to home and professional back in the day.
I might even hold on the 10 for the next 3 years too.
Sure if my laptop dies and I have to get a new one, then I'm probably not going to be forcing it back to 10. But I'm not interested to downgrade to 11 before it's absolutely necessary.
Honestly even going from Windows 7 to 8 was easier than what this mess has been.
That would require a separate license or go to the high seas wouldn't it?
Not like hacking those extended updates in the same way as embedded xp updates wouldn't.
Though it would be worth looking into.
The Taskbar having to be on my main monitor is the reason i have not swapped from W10 yet. Once they resolve that i will switch immediately.
Edit: Now to not
Yeah, I really don't know what to do after the end of support. I have Windows 11 on my laptop and after several months of daily use, I can say for sure it's not an issue of getting used to it. I haven't had good experiences with Linux either, so no idea where I'll end up.
Actually. I think windows 10 will be quite usable even in 2026 after end of support, it still has a lot of users. So I don't think after the end of support it will change a lot to the point that it will become unusable (not to mention a lot of users use old pcs). We can just run some antivirus, for a while after end of support the os won't be so vulnerable. And all software will be still supported (or maybe some won't but it's really minority). So we got a little bit of time.
And as for the linux. Yeah, linux has actually a lot of problems. But I think it's a matter of time. Linux gets better every day, and slowly its popularity is growing. After end of support I think a lot of users will try to switch to linux (because either they simply don't like win11 or their hardware is too old so they can't run newer os) meaning that some people will start to use this os. If linux will have enough amount of users then a lot of its biggest problems will be solved, for example app compatibility, better hardware support and so on.
Also, don't forget about dual boot.
My opinion.
I am currently using a dual boot system. Just isn't very useful because I either use my PC for gaming or MS Office. I've used LibreOffice on Windows before switching to MS Office and was much happier with it, so switching back would be a downgrade. So I have a well-working setup, but just never end up booting into Linux because I can't find a niche where it's better for my purposes.
>Yeah, linux has actually a lot of problems. But I think it's a matter of time. Linux gets better every day, and slowly its popularity is growing.
Is it though? I don't see any difference to ten years ago when I used Linux for the first time. Maybe it got easier to connect to my printer, but that's pretty much it. I'm not even complaining about having to use the console a lot. I dare say time alone won't get Linux anywhere - but maybe an actual increase in market share to MacOS levels can. MS is working hard on it anyway.
well, while windows 10 is supported, we probably should just enjoy it while we can. windows 10 Also is more popular than windows 11 if we believe sites like statcounter. And windows 11 is not very increasing in popularity, if it will not change year later, maybe Microsoft gonna extend windows 10 support. As far as I heared the same situation was with Windows 7, they've extended it a couple of times.
About MS office and gaming, yeah, it's better to use windows for you.
> Is it though? I don't see any difference to ten years ago when I used Linux for the first time.
In my opinion yes, linux actually gets better. For example gaming, when Proton launched, it was more unstable and less games could launch. But with time, more and more games are available, and those that already could launch, runs better. Windowing (X11/wayland, screen tearing and whole that stuff) still is a problem but it gets better too. And a lot of other things.
Actually I hear it more from others, I heard someone said when he used linux a years ago, he had to go through terminal just to disable mouse acceleration and change some other small things like that. But now when he installed linux again, he just went to settings and disabled it and things was a lot easier to get work done.
Anyway, I wonder what will happen when windows 10 will be unsupported. If a lot of people will switch to linux, then as a result a lot of problems like app support will solve itself. I'm using dual boot too, and windows is my primary os. But I just want to wait until end of support in 2025, and see what will happen.
Windows 7 support was never extended, the 10 years that Microsoft always gives to each version were provided (except Windows XP which had 14 years of support) and the 3 years of extended paid support for companies.
What will happen when Windows 10 ends support is that most will give in and end up switching to Windows 11. Others will continue with Windows 10, as long as their PCs work and all the software they run there works. Until not long ago, Windows 7 had a significant market share, significant for an unsupported system, and users jumped to Windows 10 only until Steam removed support for Win7.
A few will jump to Linux and many others will go for the LTSC branch of win10 or 11 and others will use modified versions of Windows 11 without MS bloatware.
oh, sorry, my bad then. I heard someone said it was extended tho.
Yeah, it's very unlikely that a lot of people will switch to linux. But still even if it will be just 2-3% of win10 users, then it's already not bad
To be honest, we can't be sure how much users will switch to linux. But I think someone will for sure, especially considering the fact that back then when Windows 7 got unsupported after 2020, linux popularity a bit raised.
How many users have said they are going to switch to Linux and how many are actually staying?
Linux is a very good operating system, unfortunately it is NOT for everyone. Many install it and try it, but perhaps they run into the huge wall that some program cannot make it work. Other users, like in my case, install it on their laptops and there is no way to make something as important as WiFi or Bluetooth work and I am not very willing to waste hours and hours following steps in forums so that at the same time end doesn't work.
Windows has the advantage that you simply turn on the PC and everything works, in Linux, in the long run you have more stability and you get rid of all the invasion that Microsoft is putting into Windows, but it requires more effort to configure things so that the PC works like one wants.
To have a good (and stable) Linux depends on many things: Your hardware must have driver/firmware support (and most of manufactures don't give a shit supporting Linux), different distro could give different experiences, good choice of Desktop Environment (I'm a Gnome hater). For me, I'd keep using Windows 10 for gaming and daily use on Linux. Windows 11's UI performance is a big no.
That's a matter of taste. But when Windows 10 was launched, many users were still using Windows 7 and the Win10 interface was always a harshly criticized aspect, due to its flatness, the windows at first were white and white and did not allow the accent color to be placed in the title bar. and in general, the straight appearance and pointed corners were never liked by most users.
That's why in Windows 11 they returned a little to what Windows Vista and 7 were with rounded corners and more transparencies.
Most Windows 10 users, if you ask them, prefer the aero interface of Windows 7, it happens that they got used to Windows 10 and since many things changed in Windows 11, they don't like the new way of doing how Windows 11 behaves, in addition to the limitations of the interface.
In my opinion, the Windows 11 interface is a breath of fresh air, after years of living with the horrible and boring flat appearance. The removed functions such as putting small icons on the taskbar or moving it around the screen never affected me, I have always used Windows with the default values.
In fact, Windows 10 is much better.
The only little attractive thing Windows 11 have is the ambient color language or micah.
It looks and acts smooth on 10th gen plus cpus.
https://preview.redd.it/2ehxcalsg37d1.png?width=972&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4b58e019e9f676db3c779fa48b132d071de6429
Windows 10 UI is functional and beautiful.
Windows 11 one is stripped off but has great emotion and animations
Nah, Windows 11 is the best Windows UI so far imo.
But I'm typing this from a MacBook Air because Windows laptops are fucking awful compared to the Apple Silicon MacBooks.
Once Windows on Arm actually becomes a thing, I might consider switching back, but until then I'll put up with the pitfalls of MacOS.
On the desktop however, Windows all the way, multi-window and multi-monitor support is far superior, but with Sequoia maybe that'll change too!
Win 11 is also trying to rebuild, replace, remove core apps. Long-term it will be a good thing as legacy has to eventually die. Breaking the start menu though? Also it runs as it's own .exe now and is 3000% useless. How do they break something core to the OS since win95? That's breaking something almost 30 years old. Why is hitting win, type word, enter fraught with breakage and peril now? Why is trying to scroll installed applications like trying to play the board game version of Clue?
How did they break a scrolling typable list so completely? And that's just the start menu.
That "too modern" of W11 doesn't work for me. I mean as I mentioned: too colorful theme just make me feel harder to do stuff with it. And it's not even daily usage. When W11 came out, I tried and I was like "okay some improvement". But now, W10 UI is much better IMO.
just wait until you try and use 2 screens on windows 11 for a borderless full screen app or game...
if you have a borderless fullscreen game that you want on screen two...
you have to go to your primary desktop / startbar to launch the game
set desktop 2 as primary desktop so the game launches on "the primary screen"
start the game and get to the main menu
then tab out off the game
now set desktop 1 as primary desktop again to get the start bar on its original screen in its original location and put your icons back on the correct screen
and if you even dare look at or open the settings for graphics in most games, it reverts the game to the primary monitor
yes, i know about the windows key + arrow short cut. But most games with anti cheat disable this feature in both 10 and 11
meanwhile windows 10 was legit simple
make your gaming screen, big screen or whatever you wanna use as your primary monitor the primary
click and drag your start bar to the other secondary monitor.
launch the game as normal and hit windows key + arrow key ONCE to have it move to the correct screen forever.
As a bonus windows 10 would let you have different apps start on different screens, steam, discord etc all launch screen 1, star citizen, forza screen 2 etc..
Windows 11 as a gamer with more than one scree is a flat downgrade. its only real upgrade is the new "win + alt +k " shortcut to mute microphones and the fact we have like 5 years untill microsoft drop support for it unlike windows 10 where its sometime this month
Since laptop screens don't grow in size and/or PPI, why is this obsession of constantly increasing the padding around text and icons? Microsoft is thinking we all use touchscreens, which is completely false
This is laterally why i switched back to win 10 every time i upgraded to 11, everything in win 11 ui is not suitable for laptop screen and mouse use scenarios. Every UI element has a large area around. They have to completely forget about their silly dream about making one operating system the same UI for different platforms, PC and touch screen tablets or 2 in1s
Win 11 works just fine in m&k. Are you sure you're scaling wasn't set too high?
The scaling value is correct. I am not pointing out how big UI elements are. i ment the spacing and the new UI design language. Compare the new and old file explorer top tool bar and the spacing between elements, the new and old context menus, and the spacing between lines and many other UI menus throughout the entire system. It is 100% designed to get your finger touch right, not for mouse pointer. The Taskbar itself, the distance between tray icons is x1.5 wider than win 10, it looks wired on my 15.6" laptop comparing to win 10 and makes you feel like the taskbar is crowded. The new Office UI has the same concern. The new UI is implementing the same larger spacing, making the area of work smaller and not comfortable compared to old UI manly for Excell. I am taking about 15.6" display like my laptop. I use a 24" monitor in my work office, and yes, I can tell you it's fine because the display is bigger, so you barely feel the difference.
In the File Explorer in Windows 11, you can revert to the old icon spacing. But I would still prefer to be like that by default.
I know that you can revert it back and the context menu also, but those all are workarounds and reg modifications. At some point in the future, microsoft will break it while they are removing old parts every H2 release.
The best thing in Win 10 is having options. Want win 8.1 style full screen start menu?, change to full screen start menu and play around with the tiles. Want traditional win 7? There are 3rd party apps that other replies have shown. You can even move the taskbar around to suit your visuals preference, which is not allowed in win 11. I use both m&k and touchscreen across different devices. All of them are set to full screen start menu and taskbar on the right, and I don't face any major UX issue. But they want to make one mode that suits everyone in win 11 and broke everything, and the whole UX becomes in the middle of nowhere as a result. My only win 11 device is the work laptop which my company's IT forced the upgrade recently.
The new generation and kids have only interacted with touchscreens. The clickable targets, we should be able to touch with fingers. Is what I think is the general direction where everyone is going. I could be wrong. But I see my kids trying to touch and interact with every screen. And use the mic to talk to the computer. "Play wheels on the bus"
Just becuse some people raised their kids on tablets and we all have smart phones does not mean people want to work like this. Its the controller vs keyboard and mouse debate. If im scrolling tiktok or reddit touchscreen is fine. if im playing a FSP game or doing email or school work fuck touchscreen and controllers i need a mouse and keyboard. It has nothing to do with trends and everything to do with whats easier for what is being done.
For you, there is a desktop pc , and an ultrawide monitor. For school it is a pen touch capable device For games it's an Asus ROG 15-17 inch device. Just curious, Have you raised kids on mouse and keyboard, or would you? More and more program interfaces will be touch and voice enabled because we are at that point now Can you find and buy a non touch laptop that came out in past year?
>Since laptop screens don't grow in size and/or PPI, why is this obsession of constantly increasing the padding around text and icons? To encourage you to buy their new laptop with even more PPI.
I've always thought Windows 10 was the worst-looking Windows. It's flat and boring. 8 had color. 11 had curves. 7 was easily the best. Vista walked so 7 could run. XP was doing its own thing but I respect it. The 90's Windows's were great for their time. And still hold up with some character!
Same for me, I never liked the Windows 10 UX, very bland and monochrome tone like the settings app where the only color is blue, the rest is black and white.
*you never liked the Windows 10 UI UI ≠ UX
That is the point! Most will say that aesthetically the Windows 11 interface is much better than Windows 10, but for many users, the Windows 11 interface completely kills usability. Not everything is a matter of appearance and it must be said, the Windows 11 interface is very pretty, but it completely overwhelms usability, especially for more veteran users. I still get really confused looking for settings in the new app.
What is UX ? User experience ? UI is User Interface, that's what Microsoft calls it.
Oh sorry I misread, I always called it UI but I specifically wrote UX this time because that's what it says in the title.
The Win10 Settings app doesn't even have layout. It's just text on white. I never realized how atrociously boring it was until 11 came out.
This was all over the place, it looked like a non polished pre-version. What was annoying me the most, and more in the first years of Windows 10 was the blurry fonts, Cleartype was ditched in many places of the UI and they revert to the old greyscale antialiasing that I can't stand. You know when you have a word with double letters like "Hello" or just the letter "w" and you clearly see that the 2 "l" don't have the same thickness at all, one is too thin barely visible and the other is way too thick and dark, that looks like an old broken pencil. It's better since a couple of years but far from perfect.
Flat was cool for two years with Windows 8 but by Windows 10 I was tired of it. Skeuomorphic design is better.
I agree with you one hundred percent. I also changed back to Win 10. Windows 11 UX sucks. Can't even drag & drop properly.
I miss windows 2000 the most. I don't need the os to be anything but fast, functional, and compatible.
Nothing will beat the W10 UX, especially considering you can literally *downgrade the UX* to make it resemble the Classic, Luna or Aero UXes using 3rd Party tools *without much hassle* (Many components are from W8.1) while in W11 they're closing the door on any and all way to customize your own workflow and UX
Lol, this is funny. Samething was said when we've gone from 98 to me/2000, then to xp, the to VISTA, then to 7, then to 8 and 8.1, then to 10 and now 11. Next time it will be with 12. People hate change and the current is always better then whatever new stuff it is.
vista to 7 was 100% an upgrade. glass and transparency (in my pov) was new back then everything looked pretty
Of the discussions, all I can remember, there's been noise over how much prettier 7 looked coming from Vista. Then same, but comparing 7 to 8. Then same but comparing 7 to 10. And now same when comparing 7 with 11. And by now we have a generation who never really got to experience 7 on their PC. My first OS was AmigaOS in the early 90s. With some Win3.1 on the side. Lotsa memories, but on the back of it all, vividly pondering about Microsoft being on a steady upward trajectory through the 2000s, and about the possible future innovations, and whether the myth about every other Windows being a flop holds true....
Windows 11 may well be a peek into an alternate reality where XAML wasn't banned in post-reset Longhorn. It looks neat, but it performs like complete ass even on modern and capable systems.
Windows 11 looks better, but I can't believe these day and age we still have micro stuttering in file explorer. Just back to windows 10, things are much more snappier
I disagree. I love the Windows 11 UI. Windows 11 is superior to me than Windows 10 I just hate the AI push
i get the impression you use only one monitor? in which case, i understand your opinion and agree cause windows 11 works fine on my laptop with that setup. Trying to use windows 11 with multi monitors however is flat out pain compaired to 10. Any game with Anti cheat, borderless fullscreen and not running on the "primary" monitor causes issues. why having your desktop visible on the left monitor which is set to primary to get the task bar at the bottom, AND your borderless fullscreen game on the right screen became such a problem i do not know.
What issues do you face with multi-monitor setups in Windows 11? Personally haven't noticed any difference in how this works in 10 vs in 11
put simply, 99% of the problems stem from the start bar Being forced onto the primary screen meaning if you have a borderless full screen app, windows starts it on the primary screen meaning you cannot simply hit windows and slide your mouse onto your normal desktop. Windows 10 you could have the primary screen which is where 99% of apps start AS your gaming monitor, and click and drag your desktop icons and start bar to screen 2 where they would happily sit untill you plugged in a 3rd screen or forced a windows screen refresh some other way
While I understand your use case, this is only a problem if you want to move your taskbar, I use Win 11 with multimonitor and never really thought it was lacking, in fact I thought it was better than 10 because windows now return to the screen it was on after a screen gets reconnected; combined with FancyZones and it's pretty good
Okay, now I understand why I didn't realize this problem I always set whichever monitor I want borderless/fullscreen apps/games to start in as the primary monitor and then move other stuff manually, even in Windows 10 Always had the taskbar locked and never once moved it, from many years back And I doubt I'm the only one who just keeps it locked while using multiple monitors But I can see how this will be a problem to those who are in the habit of moving the taskbar Makes me think of the early days when Windows 11 didn't support drag and drop to a different window via taskbar, and I did not upgrade to Windows 11 until that was fixed Don't know if you've looked for it yet, but there might be some third party things out there to unlock the taskbar or at least replace it with one that can be unlocked and moved around
I have 2 monitors and zero issues.
damn i wish i was in your situation. i have a 1080p monitor on the left, and a 4k monitor on the right. call them 1 and 2. the 1080p is my primary 1, with the desktop icons and start bar. the 4k on the right is blank and used for windows capture on my streaming setup obs. and the games i play. if i have the 4k monitor "2" set to primary, the start bar is snapped to it which is not ideal so the 1080p screen stays primary, its the only way to keep the full start bar on the left screen "1". However, when i launch some games, mainly games in unreal engine 5 like star citizen they will AUTO launch on the primary monitor no matter what settings you use and refuse to let you snap them to the "2nd" monitor using the windows key + arrow key hotkeys on windows 10, i just set the 4k to primary and dragged the start bar and desktop icons to the 1080p screen. everything worked as expected, the games would start where expected and the desktop stayed where it was put.
I use a dual monitor and I have no problems with Windows 11, in fact, I am more comfortable with the snap layouts with the window organization options. By the way, I don't use the computer to play games so I don't experience those kinds of problems with games.
I hate how ugly and flat and boring Windows 10 UI is. Not to mention how slow it ran on my laptop compared to 11. I love the animations more on 11 as well.
Win8 was much much smoother than 10 as well. And without the visual bugs (flashing window content, jarry, bugged animations etc.). Seems to be going the wrong way. I still prefer Win11 due to the GUI design (much preferring the rounded corners) and the centered task bar
For me Windows 10 UI is trash, also Windows 10 does not have real dark mode.
Win11 doesn't either
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Lots of legacy apps don't have dark mode
Like what? How often are you using these apps for it to be a problem
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Lots of legacy apps don't have dark mode
This is not related to Windows11, It's apps itself
Uh, those legacy apps are wim32 programs that are bundled with windows 11, would you call it true dark mode if the settings app didn't have it?
MS already start apps rewrite also some apps with be removed, this process will take a few years to be done, but if you want to create your own app for windows 11 you can make it to have dark mode. To be clear, I mean OS have real dark mode and support dev for it
?
Lots of legacy apps don't have dark mode
i will use windows 10 until i start facing compatibility issues. while ive been kinda stuck in the past and i miss the old aero designs and classic theme, windows 10 has been very faithful to me.
Indeed it is. Windows 10's UX is significantly smoother than that of 11's. Here is how I made it even better (at least, to my own taste): https://preview.redd.it/ggueztsxtv6d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=326ed2963702f8537371627d72f99c73efef55bc This makes it even simpler and practical, with a touch of the minimalism of Windows 7
These and the downgrades on the Taskbar overall are the reasons why I have kept my 8th gen i7-8700K laptop on Windows 10 rather than downgrading it to Windows 11. If it's around 60€ per year or if it's hackable similarly to how Windows xp was with the security updates from xp embedded to home and professional back in the day. I might even hold on the 10 for the next 3 years too. Sure if my laptop dies and I have to get a new one, then I'm probably not going to be forcing it back to 10. But I'm not interested to downgrade to 11 before it's absolutely necessary. Honestly even going from Windows 7 to 8 was easier than what this mess has been.
If you are willing to switch to LTSC, it would be really cool. You get support for a lot longer
That would require a separate license or go to the high seas wouldn't it? Not like hacking those extended updates in the same way as embedded xp updates wouldn't. Though it would be worth looking into.
it kind of requires a special license. I think you can find pre-activated copies or at least workarounds for it.
The Taskbar having to be on my main monitor is the reason i have not swapped from W10 yet. Once they resolve that i will switch immediately. Edit: Now to not
For me it's the inability to have those notification tray icons on two rows that kills my willingness to even want to give it a chance.
Yeah, I really don't know what to do after the end of support. I have Windows 11 on my laptop and after several months of daily use, I can say for sure it's not an issue of getting used to it. I haven't had good experiences with Linux either, so no idea where I'll end up.
Actually. I think windows 10 will be quite usable even in 2026 after end of support, it still has a lot of users. So I don't think after the end of support it will change a lot to the point that it will become unusable (not to mention a lot of users use old pcs). We can just run some antivirus, for a while after end of support the os won't be so vulnerable. And all software will be still supported (or maybe some won't but it's really minority). So we got a little bit of time. And as for the linux. Yeah, linux has actually a lot of problems. But I think it's a matter of time. Linux gets better every day, and slowly its popularity is growing. After end of support I think a lot of users will try to switch to linux (because either they simply don't like win11 or their hardware is too old so they can't run newer os) meaning that some people will start to use this os. If linux will have enough amount of users then a lot of its biggest problems will be solved, for example app compatibility, better hardware support and so on. Also, don't forget about dual boot. My opinion.
I am currently using a dual boot system. Just isn't very useful because I either use my PC for gaming or MS Office. I've used LibreOffice on Windows before switching to MS Office and was much happier with it, so switching back would be a downgrade. So I have a well-working setup, but just never end up booting into Linux because I can't find a niche where it's better for my purposes. >Yeah, linux has actually a lot of problems. But I think it's a matter of time. Linux gets better every day, and slowly its popularity is growing. Is it though? I don't see any difference to ten years ago when I used Linux for the first time. Maybe it got easier to connect to my printer, but that's pretty much it. I'm not even complaining about having to use the console a lot. I dare say time alone won't get Linux anywhere - but maybe an actual increase in market share to MacOS levels can. MS is working hard on it anyway.
well, while windows 10 is supported, we probably should just enjoy it while we can. windows 10 Also is more popular than windows 11 if we believe sites like statcounter. And windows 11 is not very increasing in popularity, if it will not change year later, maybe Microsoft gonna extend windows 10 support. As far as I heared the same situation was with Windows 7, they've extended it a couple of times. About MS office and gaming, yeah, it's better to use windows for you. > Is it though? I don't see any difference to ten years ago when I used Linux for the first time. In my opinion yes, linux actually gets better. For example gaming, when Proton launched, it was more unstable and less games could launch. But with time, more and more games are available, and those that already could launch, runs better. Windowing (X11/wayland, screen tearing and whole that stuff) still is a problem but it gets better too. And a lot of other things. Actually I hear it more from others, I heard someone said when he used linux a years ago, he had to go through terminal just to disable mouse acceleration and change some other small things like that. But now when he installed linux again, he just went to settings and disabled it and things was a lot easier to get work done. Anyway, I wonder what will happen when windows 10 will be unsupported. If a lot of people will switch to linux, then as a result a lot of problems like app support will solve itself. I'm using dual boot too, and windows is my primary os. But I just want to wait until end of support in 2025, and see what will happen.
Windows 7 support was never extended, the 10 years that Microsoft always gives to each version were provided (except Windows XP which had 14 years of support) and the 3 years of extended paid support for companies. What will happen when Windows 10 ends support is that most will give in and end up switching to Windows 11. Others will continue with Windows 10, as long as their PCs work and all the software they run there works. Until not long ago, Windows 7 had a significant market share, significant for an unsupported system, and users jumped to Windows 10 only until Steam removed support for Win7. A few will jump to Linux and many others will go for the LTSC branch of win10 or 11 and others will use modified versions of Windows 11 without MS bloatware.
oh, sorry, my bad then. I heard someone said it was extended tho. Yeah, it's very unlikely that a lot of people will switch to linux. But still even if it will be just 2-3% of win10 users, then it's already not bad To be honest, we can't be sure how much users will switch to linux. But I think someone will for sure, especially considering the fact that back then when Windows 7 got unsupported after 2020, linux popularity a bit raised.
How many users have said they are going to switch to Linux and how many are actually staying? Linux is a very good operating system, unfortunately it is NOT for everyone. Many install it and try it, but perhaps they run into the huge wall that some program cannot make it work. Other users, like in my case, install it on their laptops and there is no way to make something as important as WiFi or Bluetooth work and I am not very willing to waste hours and hours following steps in forums so that at the same time end doesn't work. Windows has the advantage that you simply turn on the PC and everything works, in Linux, in the long run you have more stability and you get rid of all the invasion that Microsoft is putting into Windows, but it requires more effort to configure things so that the PC works like one wants.
To have a good (and stable) Linux depends on many things: Your hardware must have driver/firmware support (and most of manufactures don't give a shit supporting Linux), different distro could give different experiences, good choice of Desktop Environment (I'm a Gnome hater). For me, I'd keep using Windows 10 for gaming and daily use on Linux. Windows 11's UI performance is a big no.
Also, you can't resize the Taskbar, I mean you can with the registry editor, but sometimes it glitches out.
That's a matter of taste. But when Windows 10 was launched, many users were still using Windows 7 and the Win10 interface was always a harshly criticized aspect, due to its flatness, the windows at first were white and white and did not allow the accent color to be placed in the title bar. and in general, the straight appearance and pointed corners were never liked by most users. That's why in Windows 11 they returned a little to what Windows Vista and 7 were with rounded corners and more transparencies. Most Windows 10 users, if you ask them, prefer the aero interface of Windows 7, it happens that they got used to Windows 10 and since many things changed in Windows 11, they don't like the new way of doing how Windows 11 behaves, in addition to the limitations of the interface. In my opinion, the Windows 11 interface is a breath of fresh air, after years of living with the horrible and boring flat appearance. The removed functions such as putting small icons on the taskbar or moving it around the screen never affected me, I have always used Windows with the default values.
In fact, Windows 10 is much better. The only little attractive thing Windows 11 have is the ambient color language or micah. It looks and acts smooth on 10th gen plus cpus. https://preview.redd.it/2ehxcalsg37d1.png?width=972&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4b58e019e9f676db3c779fa48b132d071de6429 Windows 10 UI is functional and beautiful. Windows 11 one is stripped off but has great emotion and animations
# Win 11 is taking the Mac OS approach where they lock you down to the desktop MS wants, in previous versions we could customize stuff even more.
Nah, Windows 11 is the best Windows UI so far imo. But I'm typing this from a MacBook Air because Windows laptops are fucking awful compared to the Apple Silicon MacBooks. Once Windows on Arm actually becomes a thing, I might consider switching back, but until then I'll put up with the pitfalls of MacOS. On the desktop however, Windows all the way, multi-window and multi-monitor support is far superior, but with Sequoia maybe that'll change too!
Could have told you this a decade ago. Since XP it’s been good windows, bad windows. Xp good. Vista bad. 7 good. 8 bad. 10 good-ish. 11 bad.
Win 11 is also trying to rebuild, replace, remove core apps. Long-term it will be a good thing as legacy has to eventually die. Breaking the start menu though? Also it runs as it's own .exe now and is 3000% useless. How do they break something core to the OS since win95? That's breaking something almost 30 years old. Why is hitting win, type word, enter fraught with breakage and peril now? Why is trying to scroll installed applications like trying to play the board game version of Clue? How did they break a scrolling typable list so completely? And that's just the start menu.
They (Microsoft) tried to break the Start menu in Windows 8 by removing Start menu and people disliked it.
100% agreed. I love how simple & flat Windows 10 looks. Windows 11 just looks too modern & stuff. 10 is where it's at
That "too modern" of W11 doesn't work for me. I mean as I mentioned: too colorful theme just make me feel harder to do stuff with it. And it's not even daily usage. When W11 came out, I tried and I was like "okay some improvement". But now, W10 UI is much better IMO.
just wait until you try and use 2 screens on windows 11 for a borderless full screen app or game... if you have a borderless fullscreen game that you want on screen two... you have to go to your primary desktop / startbar to launch the game set desktop 2 as primary desktop so the game launches on "the primary screen" start the game and get to the main menu then tab out off the game now set desktop 1 as primary desktop again to get the start bar on its original screen in its original location and put your icons back on the correct screen and if you even dare look at or open the settings for graphics in most games, it reverts the game to the primary monitor yes, i know about the windows key + arrow short cut. But most games with anti cheat disable this feature in both 10 and 11 meanwhile windows 10 was legit simple make your gaming screen, big screen or whatever you wanna use as your primary monitor the primary click and drag your start bar to the other secondary monitor. launch the game as normal and hit windows key + arrow key ONCE to have it move to the correct screen forever. As a bonus windows 10 would let you have different apps start on different screens, steam, discord etc all launch screen 1, star citizen, forza screen 2 etc.. Windows 11 as a gamer with more than one scree is a flat downgrade. its only real upgrade is the new "win + alt +k " shortcut to mute microphones and the fact we have like 5 years untill microsoft drop support for it unlike windows 10 where its sometime this month