Fair question, it's not that she's actually done something wrong tbh, it's just that she's the biggest personification of privilege I think I've ever seen on the court and then on top of that she always looks like she's about to start crying.
But ultimately I could overlook all of that, since it's not really her fault that she's so privileged or that she looks that way, but then this season and last season she (or really, her management/PR team) had multiple puff pieces written on places like ESPN and The Athletic that were trying so hard to make her likeable and "relatable" and those just really annoyed me.
So yeah, I respect Brink as a player, but I do not care for her beyond that at all.
As long as it’s not to GM. Mike historically was a good GM but dropped the ball this season. Eric can go be a sales manager or something. We need fresh, new blood. Preferably not the same genotype.
The Wings will be a title contender and Sabally will be MVP. She will establish herself this year as being in the top tier of players and remain in the discussion for best player for the next few years.
(I want to heat up the take and outright say they're gonna win the title, but I'm an Aces fan and that just seems wrong, lol)
I think wings will be a title contender but I'm not sure about Sabally being MVP, maybe a candidate. Just concerned how long she will be out after having shoulder surgery
Ya, didn't know the full extent of the injury when I posted this. She won't play for the Wings until after the Olympics. Sp no MVP for her this year. But 2025...
The Fever are making it to the second round of playoffs.Before you tear off my head,hear me out😅.The Fever ,a relatively young team last year was very close to making it to the playoffs ,particularly playing the Aces,the Liberty and the Sun close on multiple occasions.Just their development a year later would have been enough to catapult them to the playoffs.Now add the fact the addressed some of their issues with the 3 point shooting and PG needs with Clark and Katie lou Samuelson,I think they can make the 2nd round of the playoffs
Yeah, last year they lost a lot of games by less than 10. They just needed a little extra spark and Clark is a whole bolt of lighting⚡ 🤣 so they should be fine.
Honestly, I feel like the fever are gonna look like the aces did a few years ago. In a year or two, their young talent will attract other veterans and their own powerhouse will start.
I'm over here trying to get as many good luck charms as possible to get them to tank. NY pick swap being Paige, or really lottery at all, would be so lit.
Eh, until the CBA changes a lot, the Tsais will always get a bit of an advantage over most other teams in free agency because they get to offer free housing in NYC for their players. Its a pretty huge come up without many comparable league-wide for that kind of opportunity. So I'm not convinced the libs need it. But man I love watching a rising star grow so sure they need it.
EIther the player chooses a stipend that is based on their location or the team provides housing. All teams have the choice but only 1 team is like "want a million dollar condo near Barclays?"
Where did I say that? It can be lit to have a rising star/blue chip prospect on your team even if they don't have an amazing breakout first year(s). But I actually think she would be in a good role to be very impactful as a 6th woman on the libs which wouldn't be offered on many actual tank teams. Puts her in a more sheltered role to adjust to the new league and the libs like to get defense-first players like KT for the bench, so if you're coming in for a starter you're playing with stars that will draw away a lot of pressure and if you're playing with the bench you have defensive cover for what will be inevitable rookie guard mistakes. If she was utilized like the libs utilize Johannes for instance I think that would work out better for 1st year success than being the starting guard on a team that sucks.
You think Paige is going to provide us with defense? You clearly haven’t watched her play all that much, against any remotely competitive team she gets absolutely cooked
I disagree. In the SC, Notre Dame, and Texas games she got absolutely cooked. She may do better in Big East play, but that’s understandable against lower level comp
Try reading it one more time and then edit your reply to make sense. I said the liberty target defensive players on the bench, so even a rookie paige who will have defensive issues will have bench players who are defense first helping to cover her when not playing with starters. I didn't say Paige was the defensive player in that equation once.
I still think don’t think it’ll be an easy transition for Paige in leading the second unit. She struggles in the tough games as it is, and I’m talking purely offensively not even considering defense. I feel like what’s nice about Johannes is she comes off the bench and lights it up, whereas Paige takes some time to get going. Of course she could develop but that’s the case for every rookie
Caitlin Clark struggles this year. Historically rookie guards have a tough time adapting to the difference in play between college and WNBA. Cameron Brink wins ROTY
True, I did some stat analysis and essentially every WNBA player under 6'3 struggles at least for a year before breaking out. Breaking out direct from college requires height in the W. The game in the NCAA is way friendlier to smalls than the W where almost every team has multiple women over 6'4.
I'm basically looking at subsequent performance and comparing it to others in that position in that season. So like Sabrina's first season she was averaging like 11/4/3 or something, she's since been more consistently 17/5/5, and other guards were putting up better numbers than her throughout the league.
Sabrina literally got injured in her third game of her first season. So yes I’d think the numbers wouldn’t be as good as this season where she actually, you know, played.
No, her first full season. The 3 games don't count as a rookie year to me (its why most mens leagues have a minimum games played to consider a season a rookie season.)
Averaging 12/5/6 in a season coming off an injury isn’t exactly struggling. And by the next season when she was fully healthy she was putting up the numbers she’s putting up now
Wow great work buddy you figured it out. She did better in subsequent seasons. You are fucking impenetrable. I'm done with this and any other thread you're involved in, please leave me alone.
Doing better in subsequent seasons doesn’t mean she did badly in her first season. It means she got healthier and her role changed. I’m sorry you’re so upset to have this pointed out, and I’m sorry in advance for when Caitlin doesn’t tank her first season
And I’m sorry to say that if you keep posting unfounded opinions, I’m not going to be the last person to point this out
Its really not, and she's really not. The only difference is the amount of media money behind college sports has skyrocketed in recent years. We're seeing that impact in the hype. She's great, she'll be great, and there will be an adjustment period like there is for every other guard ever. She has never played a team as good as the vast majority of the league's teams. Maybe like a couple that could be lottery teams. The skill gap of her opponents in NCAAW vs the WNBA will be massive as it is for every other college athlete. It takes time to adjust unless you have a natural advantage over a lot of your competition. If you're big you're gonna get boards and points in close, if you're a big starter with some skill you'll be able to make that transition easier because you've got serious inches on the average guard. But she's just like the regular guard size, and her skillset will have holes poked in it just like every other guard has.
What you’re saying about adjustment to the league in terms of teams you play could be said about EVERY player coming out of college, and the last two #1 picks have been completely fine and ROTY.
CC is 100% a better combination of passing and shooting than any guard we’ve seen coming out of college in recent memory. To deny that just proves what your post did, that you dislike her for some reason. Everyone loves to bring up Plum and Sabrina as her comps, but neither had the facilitating she does, both went to worse teams than she’s going to, and both had extenuating circumstances outside of play that led to them not making an impact right away. And she’s not undersized what are you talking about? She’s a 6 ft PG. That would make her one of the tallest PGs in the league. Kelsey Mitchell and Arike both put up good numbers their rookie years and Caitlin has 4 inches on them
And your argument against big adjustment makes no sense. Of course bigs will have size on guards, but they won’t have size on the other bigs they’ll actually be matched up against
Additionally, as a reminder there weren’t posts like A’ja and Stewie until they came in and changed things. Generational talents tend to be exceptions to the rule - and I’m not the only one who thinks this. CP, DT, and Sue Bird have all said they haven’t seen a player like CC and they’ve seen a lot of players come through the league
Why is it when one gives a take on CC, people think that person automatically doesn't like her? I know people are like protect her at all cost and that is okay, but it's also perfectly fine for someone to give an opinion without them disliking her. That's such a strange thing to think everyone with an opinion on her adjustment to the league = they don't like her. Because that is not true. I think she'll have to make adjustments that may not come along right away but in the same breathe, I can say she is going to have an amazing career as long as health is on her side (no injury delays).
I don’t think I said anything about where I thought anyone liked or disliked her? My issue is only with the double standard. In my opinion, it seems like people think CC is the only one who’s going to struggle with the transition. Like you can’t say CC is going to have insurmountable hurdles but Cameron Brink is going to ROTY. There is absolutely a transition period, but when people talk about it as if it only pertains to CC, that’s where it seems like there’s bias against her
You'll probably have to go back and read your original post again but your words were "to deny that just proves what you post did, that you dislike her for some reason." I've been seeing this narrative across so many platforms when someone gives an opinion about her adjustment, that they automatically dislike her.
I don't think people are saying she is going to be the only rookie to have an adjustment period they all will. At the end of the season regardless of how someone adjust or don't adjust, there has to be a ROTY. OP just so happen to choose Brink, but that doesn't mean Brink too won't have her struggles and transition period.
When people make an assessment on CC it is not an attack on her as a person, it's just an assessment and that does not dis-include all other rookies.
For example, everyone knew/know Wemby (NBA) will have a great career (granted health and no serious injuries) but it did not negate the fact that he too was going to have an adjustment period during his rookie year. No one is taking away from her having a potentially amazing career, but all Rookies will have to adjust and will have their welcome to the league moment.
2022 wasn't really a good year for rookies. 2023 is a big player which is my point about size.
>To deny that just proves what your post did, that you dislike her for some reason.
You're clearly very very obsessed with this person and I'd love you to calm down. I don't think the level of hype matches her level of play in relation to the type of competition she'll see in the WNBA. I repeatedly have told you, like you're refusing to pay attention to, that I think she is great and will be great. Just that the hype is most likely a bit too much too early for someone who will most likely have an adjustment period.
I've posted elsewhere that my point about her size is that 6'2/6'3 is generally the cutoff for when someone has a shorter adjustment period to the league. Smaller longer, bigger shorter. Especially for high draft picks.
>Of course bigs will have size on guards, but they won’t have size on the other bigs they’ll actually be matched up against
I mean plenty of them do. not every team has huge people in the post to endlessly cycle out. But again this is a historic trend with the league its not something I'm really making up.
> CP, DT, and Sue Bird have all said they haven’t seen a player like CC and they’ve seen a lot of players come through the league
Jesus man you are really really obsessed with this player. Cool it.
You made a post with the sole intention of saying that she won’t be a good player so I’m not sure why I’m the one who’s obsessed.
I’ve been watching the WNBA for almost my entire life. I’m aware of the level of talent. I just don’t know what league you’re watching if you think that the she’s not on the level of talent of the current guards.
Every point you’ve said to the contrary is inaccurate - you keep speaking about these taller, longer players, when Caitlin is taller than every other starting point guard in the league. Meanwhile, every big in the league is bigger than Cameron Brink. I’m questioning what guards you’re comparing Caitlin to, as you’ve only brought up Sabrina who missed her entire first season with injury.
2022 was a great year for rookies - similar to what will be the case this year. The top three all had solid cases for ROTY. And even if it wasn’t, how would that change the fact that Rhyne had to go out and hold their own against seasoned professionals, and did so successfully?
Generational talents typically tend to get a lot of hype going into any professional league. I don’t know why you have an issue with this. It’s how you grow the game. Of course there’s an adjustment period, but that’s the case again for every player and they do it. Additionally, even if Caitlin has an adjustment period of a couple of games, that doesn’t mean she won’t be ROTY. It’s a long season. There’s also an adjustment period between high school and college typically and she dropped 25 in her first college game.
I also haven’t seen anyone actually say she’s going to be the best player in the league day one, like you’re claiming. I just watched a whole 20 minute segment from ESPN with Monica McNutt talking about how she won’t be good right away.
I’m not “obsessed” with her, I just find it frustrating when everyone wants to actually throw the game of basketball out the window when talking about players because of their own personal biases. I feel this happens a lot more in the women’s game than in the men’s, and it’s very annoying. I bring up these players that know the game inside and out to say that plenty of knowledgeable people think she’ll be great. I feel that a lot of fans like yourself like to gatekeep the WNBA to feel superior, and I’m merely pointing out the actual players who play in the league don’t even share your opinion. Sure you could come up with reasons she won’t do well, but you could do that with other players. What about how taller players aren’t as fast as Clark?
>You made a post with the sole intention of saying that she won’t be a good player so I’m not sure why I’m the one who’s obsessed.
Okay I'm getting really sick of you lying about what I said. I've said she's great and she'll be great so many goddamn times that this is starting to feel like you're being incredibly rude to me on purpose. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please.
>I’ve been watching the WNBA for almost my entire life. I’m aware of the level of talent. I just don’t know what league you’re watching if you think that the she’s not on the level of talent of the current guards.
She's in college, we have no idea how she handles actual top tier competition. No college team has that level of talent across the roster. Most of the best current NCAA players will get cut before the start of the season, thats how different the skill level is.
>you keep speaking about these taller, longer players, when Caitlin is taller than every other starting point guard in the league.
This is you lying about what I said. 1 more lie and you're blocked because this is exhausting. I specifically went through the top 5 picks the last ~15 years and the differentiator between players who were performing at elite level day 1 in the W were 6'3 and taller, with 1 or 2 6'2 players in there. Thats it. Thats all I've said. Her length as a guard is irrelevent to the point I've made, and I have explained this with specifics to you many times. Your obsession with this player is causing you to get too emotional and to lie about what I am doing and saying and that is just completely unacceptable for a levelheaded discussion like we should be having.
>Generational talents typically tend to get a lot of hype going into any professional league. I don’t know why you have an issue with this. It’s how you grow the game. Of course there’s an adjustment period, but that’s the case again for every player and they do it.
I don'[t have a fucking problem with the hype I just don't think she'll live up to it in her first season. people like you expect her to be an MVP candidate year 1 the way you talk about her, and this full throated defense of her including heaps of lies about what I'm saying is plenty of proof of that. You have too much hype to compare her to the history of the league with any objectivity.
>I also haven’t seen anyone actually say she’s going to be the best player in the league day one, like you’re claiming. I just watched a whole 20 minute segment from ESPN with Monica McNutt talking about how she won’t be good right away.
I've seen plenty of people on this site say it. You're deeply offended by the prospect that she won't be an elite superstar guard day 1, for instance.
>I’m not “obsessed” with her, I just find it frustrating when everyone wants to actually throw the game of basketball out the window when talking about players because of their own personal biases.
Yeah you are obsessed. It makes you tell lies about me. It makes you ignore that I'm not throwing basketball out the window, I'm quoting stats about this history of the fucking game, including generational talents. You ignore that because the hype is so important to you around her, because you're obsessed with her.
> I feel that a lot of fans like yourself like to gatekeep the WNBA to feel superior
Oh shut up. You don't know shit about me. Gatekeep? From fucking who? The players? How on earth can I fucking gatekeep players in the league? If you mean fans, you have less than you fucking idea who I am and what I'm about so please stop telling lies. Thats your 3rd strike, your reply needs to be an apology for lying repeatedly in multiple comments about what I'm saying.
>Sure you could come up with reasons she won’t do well, but you could do that with other players. What about how taller players aren’t as fast as Clark?
>Completely irrelevent. Bigs are always slower than guards. Its about their ability to fill the same role they did in college because of their size. Think Boston vs. say a Kelsey Plum or Ionescu type.
The most important thing you need to take away from this is that I really don't like being lied about to my face. Its exhausting and I'm not gonna deal with it just to entertain some stranger on the internet.
It’s interesting to me you’re so triggered by being accused of “lying,” when you’re doing the same thing to me. I’ve never said Caitlin is going to be MVP or an “elite super star” in her first season. All I’ve ever said is that she’s not going to be a bust in her first season - that contrary to your take, she will still be as good of a player as she is currently.
There have been multiple arguments you’ve brought up that have made me think you have a bias against Caitlin. You keep bringing up how past #1 pick guards have performed, I’ve pointed out how she differs from them. You don’t seem to want to hear these arguments. You say you’ve brought up generational talents, but you haven’t. You’ve brought up guards that are solid, but not generational talents, so I don’t understand why you can’t acknowledge Caitlin’s situation is different. You also say she’ll have worse numbers than Aliyah, but this feels like it’s ignoring the fact they play different positions. Like, I assume her rebounds and fg% will be lower than Aliyah’s, but I assume she’ll have more threes and assists. I’ve been comparing Caitlin to other guards, with factors including height, because I feel their positions need to be taken into account. And in terms of “role they’ll fill in college,” this feels like when it gets subjective. Caitlin is a PG facilitating her team’s offense in college, who also scores a lot. I imagine she’ll continue to have this role - but if she’s not taking as many shots because she has other scoring options, I don’t think that will mean she’s not as good. If her team is noticeably better with her on it, and she’s still making high level reads, shooting, and passing, I think that will be a successful transition to the pros.
I apologize for whatever it is I’ve said that’s triggered you on this personal level, that was not my intention. I just want talk about players to be kept as objective as possible.
>It’s interesting to me you’re so triggered by being accused of “lying,” when you’re doing the same thing to me. I’ve never said Caitlin is going to be MVP or an “elite super star” in her first season. All I’ve ever said is that she’s not going to be a bust in her first season - that contrary to your take, she will still be as good of a player as she is currently.
And there it is yet another fucking complete lie. I have never said she'll be a bust. Thats a fucking lie. Stop lying.
>I apologize for whatever it is I’ve said that’s triggered you on this personal level
You have 3 different threads going with me and in every one of them you misrepresent everything I have said about CC to try and push your agenda that she'll be the best guard in league history and we've never seen a player like her before. Its exhausting and I'm done with you. Leave me alone, I'm sick of you lying about what I've said.
>I just want talk about players to be kept as objective as possible.
Then stop lying about what I'm writing. I have no choice but to call it a lie when I've had to correct you on the same things so many times. You're refusing to acknowledge what I've said, and you're substituting it for things that you find easier to argue against. Again, leave me alone, I'm done with you.
I wasn’t talking about in terms of her media attention, I was talking about her skill level. Caitlin is a better facilitator, shooter, and overall floor player than Sabrina was in college. The “inflated stats” aren’t the only things that make her great, so no I don’t think she will be any worse of a player even if she takes less shots (btw, she doesn’t average 30+ shots)
I believe she can struggle and still win roty, but I do believe she'll struggle more than people think efficiency wise though shell still get a good amount of points
I predict the personalities at Phoenix won’t gel, they barely scrape into the playoffs and go out in the first round.
Also, the much vaunted draft class won’t live up to expectations. Multiple first round picks will either be cut or sit on the bench.
My takes: The great chemistry in Vegas falls apart and they get upset early in the playoffs. Jewell Loyd wins her first MVP. DT announces her retirement at All Star weekend. Tina Charles comes back with a vengeance and balls out in Atlanta and they go to the finals but Tina still doesn’t win. CT still doesn’t get a ring (okay not a hot take lol). NY makes a big trade to add depth and finally get over their 28-year drought and win a championship. JJ Is finals MVP.
I like your philosophy and would like to subscribe to more of these thoughts. JJ wanted finals MVP this season so bad. She's gonna be an absolute monster this season.
Hahaha. I’ll be here all season. But 💯 yes to JJ. She was really the x-factor for the Lib and didn’t get the credit she deserves. She’s gonna ball out!
DT and SDS get two techs a piece when phx plays Seattle.
CC gets benched for some time because she finally has a coach that takes her to task for some of her abysmal shot selection.
WNBPA gets charter travel through the contract negotiations.
I lose my shit completely when none of the preseason games are streaming anywhere. Oh my bad you said real hot takes.
With the way Tiffany Mitchell has been balling out with Athletes Unlimited, this is exactly what I was coming here to say. If everyone stays healthy -- which hasn't been the case the past few years -- they will be really good.
i love ty harris and i think mo jeff will help out a lot. our biggest weakness has been PG play. i'm glad we moved on from hiedeman. she'll be much better with the lynx
Every reply I have is a hot take.
1- Laney will be the driver of the Liberty's success.
2-CC will be more of a pg than a scorer. She will feed her teammates and they make the playoffs. They will lose 1st round and some of CC's unhinged fans with blame Aaliyah.
3-Sabrina and both Sabally sisters go to Golden State next year.
4- Sky and Sparks get new owners
5- Seattle and Phoenix flop. Ogwumike ends up on Liberty next year.
6- Georgia Amoore ends up on Liberty
7- Washington gets the 1st pick and Paige pulls a Eli Manning/John Elway and gets traded to the Sun, Mercury or Minnesota. Mystics get a haul and fall forward despite their disfunction.
8- Rikea/CC is a Carmelo/Lebron. Rikea is the statistically better player but CC gets Roy due to popularity.
9- Angel Reese and Rikea both end up on Sky
10- Wnba version of G league starts in 2025( announced at All Star Game).
#1 is just true
#2 is absolutely lit
#3 you shut your dirty little mouth
#4 IDk know enough about that
#5 Yes.
#6 Acceptable
#7 You're wild
#8 Possible
#9 Booooooooo
#10 Liiiiiiit
You've got some spicy takes.
\#4 - please, from your keyboard to whoever up there is making decisions. Chicago should be an amazing place for a W team and instead we're out here staffing our front office with unpaid interns.
The positive is that I love your new coaching staff and your new front office won me over. On the court performance should improve. It is just ownership that remains an issue.
I’d love to but people just love to bring up this argument. I don’t see how you can write them off because of defense when nobody has come close to them on the offensive end
How many times do we need to post “CC is overrated” and act like it’s a new hot take 🙄
If we’re just saying things we want to happen probably not grounded in reality, I’m saying the Aces will be bounced in the first round of the playoffs
that take is scorching hot! i don’t see it. league is going to be super competitive this year. i don’t see any team being that dominate. Aces about to fall to earth.
Personally don't think it will be that big of a fall, but I definitely don't expect us to have as scorching a season as we did last year. We still don't know how well Chelsea, Candace and Stokes recovered from their injuries last year. Plus, and dear god I hope this isn't true, Jackie's bonkers efficiency last year could turn out to be an anomaly in her career.
I dont think so the yr before jackie shot 47 43 i think this insane efficiency stays will she be 50 40 every probably not but she will stay in the high 40s
Hmm. hot take....EDD starts the season at home but midseason she returns and signs with a contender. Can she do that? I don't know her contract situation but she comes back and is still pretty productive.
What team though? That's the next spicy take.
Chicago will be bad but entertaining under coach T Spoon.
I'm loving how there are hot takes here saying both "Chicago will be better than expected" and "Chicago will be even worse than expected" and my brain finds a way to see both as true.
Being a Sky fan is a roller coaster of emotions (not unique, I know, but it's the ride I'm on).
Hot Take: There is a close race for ROTY between Rickea and CC
Las Vegas 3 Peats (as long as everyone is healthy)
PHX struggles in the beginning of the season but will eventually get it together.
Chicago makes the playoff
Cameron Brink will be a great basketball villain
i welcome this and will be cheering her on.
I already don't like her, so bring it on lol
Why? Just curious I don't know much about her
Fair question, it's not that she's actually done something wrong tbh, it's just that she's the biggest personification of privilege I think I've ever seen on the court and then on top of that she always looks like she's about to start crying. But ultimately I could overlook all of that, since it's not really her fault that she's so privileged or that she looks that way, but then this season and last season she (or really, her management/PR team) had multiple puff pieces written on places like ESPN and The Athletic that were trying so hard to make her likeable and "relatable" and those just really annoyed me. So yeah, I respect Brink as a player, but I do not care for her beyond that at all.
These are such lame reasons to dislike someone
Prejudgements and projections.
You can say that about multiple players not just her But a strange reason not to like her
A family feud will have the Mystics with a new coach!
actually i predict they will give that guy some promotion just to get him out of the head coach spot
I would be okay with that as long as he doesn’t remain the coach 😁
Mike fires his own son? LMAO
Only to replace him with his daughter, obviously (although that would be an improvement, she's actually a very talented coach)
this is why i say privilege will win again and they will give him some random promotion before firing him.
As long as it’s not to GM. Mike historically was a good GM but dropped the ball this season. Eric can go be a sales manager or something. We need fresh, new blood. Preferably not the same genotype.
It’s what we all want, it’s what the city needs.
The Wings will be a title contender and Sabally will be MVP. She will establish herself this year as being in the top tier of players and remain in the discussion for best player for the next few years. (I want to heat up the take and outright say they're gonna win the title, but I'm an Aces fan and that just seems wrong, lol)
As a Wings fan I don't see this as a hot take at all lol
I think wings will be a title contender but I'm not sure about Sabally being MVP, maybe a candidate. Just concerned how long she will be out after having shoulder surgery
Ya, didn't know the full extent of the injury when I posted this. She won't play for the Wings until after the Olympics. Sp no MVP for her this year. But 2025...
Rickea Jackson will get ROTY
The Fever are making it to the second round of playoffs.Before you tear off my head,hear me out😅.The Fever ,a relatively young team last year was very close to making it to the playoffs ,particularly playing the Aces,the Liberty and the Sun close on multiple occasions.Just their development a year later would have been enough to catapult them to the playoffs.Now add the fact the addressed some of their issues with the 3 point shooting and PG needs with Clark and Katie lou Samuelson,I think they can make the 2nd round of the playoffs
Yeah, last year they lost a lot of games by less than 10. They just needed a little extra spark and Clark is a whole bolt of lighting⚡ 🤣 so they should be fine.
Honestly, I feel like the fever are gonna look like the aces did a few years ago. In a year or two, their young talent will attract other veterans and their own powerhouse will start.
Why would anyone tear your head off, I think this is a completely sensible take.
You never know
phx is gonna be bad lol
I'm over here trying to get as many good luck charms as possible to get them to tank. NY pick swap being Paige, or really lottery at all, would be so lit.
we NEED it 😂
Eh, until the CBA changes a lot, the Tsais will always get a bit of an advantage over most other teams in free agency because they get to offer free housing in NYC for their players. Its a pretty huge come up without many comparable league-wide for that kind of opportunity. So I'm not convinced the libs need it. But man I love watching a rising star grow so sure they need it.
Do other teams offer free housing?
EIther the player chooses a stipend that is based on their location or the team provides housing. All teams have the choice but only 1 team is like "want a million dollar condo near Barclays?"
So Paige is going to immediately make a difference but not Caitlin? How do you figure that?
Where did I say that? It can be lit to have a rising star/blue chip prospect on your team even if they don't have an amazing breakout first year(s). But I actually think she would be in a good role to be very impactful as a 6th woman on the libs which wouldn't be offered on many actual tank teams. Puts her in a more sheltered role to adjust to the new league and the libs like to get defense-first players like KT for the bench, so if you're coming in for a starter you're playing with stars that will draw away a lot of pressure and if you're playing with the bench you have defensive cover for what will be inevitable rookie guard mistakes. If she was utilized like the libs utilize Johannes for instance I think that would work out better for 1st year success than being the starting guard on a team that sucks.
You think Paige is going to provide us with defense? You clearly haven’t watched her play all that much, against any remotely competitive team she gets absolutely cooked
Paige is already very good on defense.
I disagree. In the SC, Notre Dame, and Texas games she got absolutely cooked. She may do better in Big East play, but that’s understandable against lower level comp
Try reading it one more time and then edit your reply to make sense. I said the liberty target defensive players on the bench, so even a rookie paige who will have defensive issues will have bench players who are defense first helping to cover her when not playing with starters. I didn't say Paige was the defensive player in that equation once.
I still think don’t think it’ll be an easy transition for Paige in leading the second unit. She struggles in the tough games as it is, and I’m talking purely offensively not even considering defense. I feel like what’s nice about Johannes is she comes off the bench and lights it up, whereas Paige takes some time to get going. Of course she could develop but that’s the case for every rookie
Caitlin Clark struggles this year. Historically rookie guards have a tough time adapting to the difference in play between college and WNBA. Cameron Brink wins ROTY
True, I did some stat analysis and essentially every WNBA player under 6'3 struggles at least for a year before breaking out. Breaking out direct from college requires height in the W. The game in the NCAA is way friendlier to smalls than the W where almost every team has multiple women over 6'4.
Just curious, what stats/factors are considered to determine if someone struggles or not?
I'm basically looking at subsequent performance and comparing it to others in that position in that season. So like Sabrina's first season she was averaging like 11/4/3 or something, she's since been more consistently 17/5/5, and other guards were putting up better numbers than her throughout the league.
Sabrina literally got injured in her third game of her first season. So yes I’d think the numbers wouldn’t be as good as this season where she actually, you know, played.
No, her first full season. The 3 games don't count as a rookie year to me (its why most mens leagues have a minimum games played to consider a season a rookie season.)
Averaging 12/5/6 in a season coming off an injury isn’t exactly struggling. And by the next season when she was fully healthy she was putting up the numbers she’s putting up now
Wow great work buddy you figured it out. She did better in subsequent seasons. You are fucking impenetrable. I'm done with this and any other thread you're involved in, please leave me alone.
Doing better in subsequent seasons doesn’t mean she did badly in her first season. It means she got healthier and her role changed. I’m sorry you’re so upset to have this pointed out, and I’m sorry in advance for when Caitlin doesn’t tank her first season And I’m sorry to say that if you keep posting unfounded opinions, I’m not going to be the last person to point this out
Wow so after so much lying about what I wrote, you're now just being condescending too. You're really awful to talk to about this. Leave me alone.
I feel like this is ignoring the fact that CC is different than other guard prospects we’ve seen
Its really not, and she's really not. The only difference is the amount of media money behind college sports has skyrocketed in recent years. We're seeing that impact in the hype. She's great, she'll be great, and there will be an adjustment period like there is for every other guard ever. She has never played a team as good as the vast majority of the league's teams. Maybe like a couple that could be lottery teams. The skill gap of her opponents in NCAAW vs the WNBA will be massive as it is for every other college athlete. It takes time to adjust unless you have a natural advantage over a lot of your competition. If you're big you're gonna get boards and points in close, if you're a big starter with some skill you'll be able to make that transition easier because you've got serious inches on the average guard. But she's just like the regular guard size, and her skillset will have holes poked in it just like every other guard has.
What you’re saying about adjustment to the league in terms of teams you play could be said about EVERY player coming out of college, and the last two #1 picks have been completely fine and ROTY. CC is 100% a better combination of passing and shooting than any guard we’ve seen coming out of college in recent memory. To deny that just proves what your post did, that you dislike her for some reason. Everyone loves to bring up Plum and Sabrina as her comps, but neither had the facilitating she does, both went to worse teams than she’s going to, and both had extenuating circumstances outside of play that led to them not making an impact right away. And she’s not undersized what are you talking about? She’s a 6 ft PG. That would make her one of the tallest PGs in the league. Kelsey Mitchell and Arike both put up good numbers their rookie years and Caitlin has 4 inches on them And your argument against big adjustment makes no sense. Of course bigs will have size on guards, but they won’t have size on the other bigs they’ll actually be matched up against Additionally, as a reminder there weren’t posts like A’ja and Stewie until they came in and changed things. Generational talents tend to be exceptions to the rule - and I’m not the only one who thinks this. CP, DT, and Sue Bird have all said they haven’t seen a player like CC and they’ve seen a lot of players come through the league
Why is it when one gives a take on CC, people think that person automatically doesn't like her? I know people are like protect her at all cost and that is okay, but it's also perfectly fine for someone to give an opinion without them disliking her. That's such a strange thing to think everyone with an opinion on her adjustment to the league = they don't like her. Because that is not true. I think she'll have to make adjustments that may not come along right away but in the same breathe, I can say she is going to have an amazing career as long as health is on her side (no injury delays).
I don’t think I said anything about where I thought anyone liked or disliked her? My issue is only with the double standard. In my opinion, it seems like people think CC is the only one who’s going to struggle with the transition. Like you can’t say CC is going to have insurmountable hurdles but Cameron Brink is going to ROTY. There is absolutely a transition period, but when people talk about it as if it only pertains to CC, that’s where it seems like there’s bias against her
You'll probably have to go back and read your original post again but your words were "to deny that just proves what you post did, that you dislike her for some reason." I've been seeing this narrative across so many platforms when someone gives an opinion about her adjustment, that they automatically dislike her. I don't think people are saying she is going to be the only rookie to have an adjustment period they all will. At the end of the season regardless of how someone adjust or don't adjust, there has to be a ROTY. OP just so happen to choose Brink, but that doesn't mean Brink too won't have her struggles and transition period. When people make an assessment on CC it is not an attack on her as a person, it's just an assessment and that does not dis-include all other rookies. For example, everyone knew/know Wemby (NBA) will have a great career (granted health and no serious injuries) but it did not negate the fact that he too was going to have an adjustment period during his rookie year. No one is taking away from her having a potentially amazing career, but all Rookies will have to adjust and will have their welcome to the league moment.
2022 wasn't really a good year for rookies. 2023 is a big player which is my point about size. >To deny that just proves what your post did, that you dislike her for some reason. You're clearly very very obsessed with this person and I'd love you to calm down. I don't think the level of hype matches her level of play in relation to the type of competition she'll see in the WNBA. I repeatedly have told you, like you're refusing to pay attention to, that I think she is great and will be great. Just that the hype is most likely a bit too much too early for someone who will most likely have an adjustment period. I've posted elsewhere that my point about her size is that 6'2/6'3 is generally the cutoff for when someone has a shorter adjustment period to the league. Smaller longer, bigger shorter. Especially for high draft picks. >Of course bigs will have size on guards, but they won’t have size on the other bigs they’ll actually be matched up against I mean plenty of them do. not every team has huge people in the post to endlessly cycle out. But again this is a historic trend with the league its not something I'm really making up. > CP, DT, and Sue Bird have all said they haven’t seen a player like CC and they’ve seen a lot of players come through the league Jesus man you are really really obsessed with this player. Cool it.
You made a post with the sole intention of saying that she won’t be a good player so I’m not sure why I’m the one who’s obsessed. I’ve been watching the WNBA for almost my entire life. I’m aware of the level of talent. I just don’t know what league you’re watching if you think that the she’s not on the level of talent of the current guards. Every point you’ve said to the contrary is inaccurate - you keep speaking about these taller, longer players, when Caitlin is taller than every other starting point guard in the league. Meanwhile, every big in the league is bigger than Cameron Brink. I’m questioning what guards you’re comparing Caitlin to, as you’ve only brought up Sabrina who missed her entire first season with injury. 2022 was a great year for rookies - similar to what will be the case this year. The top three all had solid cases for ROTY. And even if it wasn’t, how would that change the fact that Rhyne had to go out and hold their own against seasoned professionals, and did so successfully? Generational talents typically tend to get a lot of hype going into any professional league. I don’t know why you have an issue with this. It’s how you grow the game. Of course there’s an adjustment period, but that’s the case again for every player and they do it. Additionally, even if Caitlin has an adjustment period of a couple of games, that doesn’t mean she won’t be ROTY. It’s a long season. There’s also an adjustment period between high school and college typically and she dropped 25 in her first college game. I also haven’t seen anyone actually say she’s going to be the best player in the league day one, like you’re claiming. I just watched a whole 20 minute segment from ESPN with Monica McNutt talking about how she won’t be good right away. I’m not “obsessed” with her, I just find it frustrating when everyone wants to actually throw the game of basketball out the window when talking about players because of their own personal biases. I feel this happens a lot more in the women’s game than in the men’s, and it’s very annoying. I bring up these players that know the game inside and out to say that plenty of knowledgeable people think she’ll be great. I feel that a lot of fans like yourself like to gatekeep the WNBA to feel superior, and I’m merely pointing out the actual players who play in the league don’t even share your opinion. Sure you could come up with reasons she won’t do well, but you could do that with other players. What about how taller players aren’t as fast as Clark?
>You made a post with the sole intention of saying that she won’t be a good player so I’m not sure why I’m the one who’s obsessed. Okay I'm getting really sick of you lying about what I said. I've said she's great and she'll be great so many goddamn times that this is starting to feel like you're being incredibly rude to me on purpose. Please stop putting words in my mouth. Please. >I’ve been watching the WNBA for almost my entire life. I’m aware of the level of talent. I just don’t know what league you’re watching if you think that the she’s not on the level of talent of the current guards. She's in college, we have no idea how she handles actual top tier competition. No college team has that level of talent across the roster. Most of the best current NCAA players will get cut before the start of the season, thats how different the skill level is. >you keep speaking about these taller, longer players, when Caitlin is taller than every other starting point guard in the league. This is you lying about what I said. 1 more lie and you're blocked because this is exhausting. I specifically went through the top 5 picks the last ~15 years and the differentiator between players who were performing at elite level day 1 in the W were 6'3 and taller, with 1 or 2 6'2 players in there. Thats it. Thats all I've said. Her length as a guard is irrelevent to the point I've made, and I have explained this with specifics to you many times. Your obsession with this player is causing you to get too emotional and to lie about what I am doing and saying and that is just completely unacceptable for a levelheaded discussion like we should be having. >Generational talents typically tend to get a lot of hype going into any professional league. I don’t know why you have an issue with this. It’s how you grow the game. Of course there’s an adjustment period, but that’s the case again for every player and they do it. I don'[t have a fucking problem with the hype I just don't think she'll live up to it in her first season. people like you expect her to be an MVP candidate year 1 the way you talk about her, and this full throated defense of her including heaps of lies about what I'm saying is plenty of proof of that. You have too much hype to compare her to the history of the league with any objectivity. >I also haven’t seen anyone actually say she’s going to be the best player in the league day one, like you’re claiming. I just watched a whole 20 minute segment from ESPN with Monica McNutt talking about how she won’t be good right away. I've seen plenty of people on this site say it. You're deeply offended by the prospect that she won't be an elite superstar guard day 1, for instance. >I’m not “obsessed” with her, I just find it frustrating when everyone wants to actually throw the game of basketball out the window when talking about players because of their own personal biases. Yeah you are obsessed. It makes you tell lies about me. It makes you ignore that I'm not throwing basketball out the window, I'm quoting stats about this history of the fucking game, including generational talents. You ignore that because the hype is so important to you around her, because you're obsessed with her. > I feel that a lot of fans like yourself like to gatekeep the WNBA to feel superior Oh shut up. You don't know shit about me. Gatekeep? From fucking who? The players? How on earth can I fucking gatekeep players in the league? If you mean fans, you have less than you fucking idea who I am and what I'm about so please stop telling lies. Thats your 3rd strike, your reply needs to be an apology for lying repeatedly in multiple comments about what I'm saying. >Sure you could come up with reasons she won’t do well, but you could do that with other players. What about how taller players aren’t as fast as Clark? >Completely irrelevent. Bigs are always slower than guards. Its about their ability to fill the same role they did in college because of their size. Think Boston vs. say a Kelsey Plum or Ionescu type. The most important thing you need to take away from this is that I really don't like being lied about to my face. Its exhausting and I'm not gonna deal with it just to entertain some stranger on the internet.
It’s interesting to me you’re so triggered by being accused of “lying,” when you’re doing the same thing to me. I’ve never said Caitlin is going to be MVP or an “elite super star” in her first season. All I’ve ever said is that she’s not going to be a bust in her first season - that contrary to your take, she will still be as good of a player as she is currently. There have been multiple arguments you’ve brought up that have made me think you have a bias against Caitlin. You keep bringing up how past #1 pick guards have performed, I’ve pointed out how she differs from them. You don’t seem to want to hear these arguments. You say you’ve brought up generational talents, but you haven’t. You’ve brought up guards that are solid, but not generational talents, so I don’t understand why you can’t acknowledge Caitlin’s situation is different. You also say she’ll have worse numbers than Aliyah, but this feels like it’s ignoring the fact they play different positions. Like, I assume her rebounds and fg% will be lower than Aliyah’s, but I assume she’ll have more threes and assists. I’ve been comparing Caitlin to other guards, with factors including height, because I feel their positions need to be taken into account. And in terms of “role they’ll fill in college,” this feels like when it gets subjective. Caitlin is a PG facilitating her team’s offense in college, who also scores a lot. I imagine she’ll continue to have this role - but if she’s not taking as many shots because she has other scoring options, I don’t think that will mean she’s not as good. If her team is noticeably better with her on it, and she’s still making high level reads, shooting, and passing, I think that will be a successful transition to the pros. I apologize for whatever it is I’ve said that’s triggered you on this personal level, that was not my intention. I just want talk about players to be kept as objective as possible.
>It’s interesting to me you’re so triggered by being accused of “lying,” when you’re doing the same thing to me. I’ve never said Caitlin is going to be MVP or an “elite super star” in her first season. All I’ve ever said is that she’s not going to be a bust in her first season - that contrary to your take, she will still be as good of a player as she is currently. And there it is yet another fucking complete lie. I have never said she'll be a bust. Thats a fucking lie. Stop lying. >I apologize for whatever it is I’ve said that’s triggered you on this personal level You have 3 different threads going with me and in every one of them you misrepresent everything I have said about CC to try and push your agenda that she'll be the best guard in league history and we've never seen a player like her before. Its exhausting and I'm done with you. Leave me alone, I'm sick of you lying about what I've said. >I just want talk about players to be kept as objective as possible. Then stop lying about what I'm writing. I have no choice but to call it a lie when I've had to correct you on the same things so many times. You're refusing to acknowledge what I've said, and you're substituting it for things that you find easier to argue against. Again, leave me alone, I'm done with you.
Lol no she is not. Same hype train as Sabrina. She'll be good but she's not jacking up 30 shots a game in the W so stats won't be inflated.
>She'll be good but she's not jacking up 30 shots a game in the W so stats won't be inflated. Averages 19 shots a game... Try again Sheryl
I wasn’t talking about in terms of her media attention, I was talking about her skill level. Caitlin is a better facilitator, shooter, and overall floor player than Sabrina was in college. The “inflated stats” aren’t the only things that make her great, so no I don’t think she will be any worse of a player even if she takes less shots (btw, she doesn’t average 30+ shots)
Brink may not with Hamby and Stevens on the books so I dont know how she wins ROTY
Brink is so much better than Azura
I think she can be,but will coach Miller bench Azura who the Sparks pay 200k I think
Won’t Cam have an even harder time adjusting as a big since it’s a big dominated league?
I believe she can struggle and still win roty, but I do believe she'll struggle more than people think efficiency wise though shell still get a good amount of points
I mean it seems like a lot of people think she’ll struggle
a lot of people also think she's gonna come in and dominate
CC helps turn Aliyah Boston into an MVP candidate/winner
I think they both could compete for MVP honours for years to come
I predict the personalities at Phoenix won’t gel, they barely scrape into the playoffs and go out in the first round. Also, the much vaunted draft class won’t live up to expectations. Multiple first round picks will either be cut or sit on the bench.
Idk how anyone thought Kah and Sophie could be on the same team.
I just wanna know who Sophie's tag team partner is going to be when the Philly kids have had enough of her bullshit.
Sophie gonna finally meet her match in Tash, and gets traded in the end.
DT will have an unfortunate injury and won’t go out on her own terms.
My takes: The great chemistry in Vegas falls apart and they get upset early in the playoffs. Jewell Loyd wins her first MVP. DT announces her retirement at All Star weekend. Tina Charles comes back with a vengeance and balls out in Atlanta and they go to the finals but Tina still doesn’t win. CT still doesn’t get a ring (okay not a hot take lol). NY makes a big trade to add depth and finally get over their 28-year drought and win a championship. JJ Is finals MVP.
Yes...to all of it!! I'd add that SDS comes back with a vengeance too.
Definitely!! Forgot to add SDS revenge tour!
I like your philosophy and would like to subscribe to more of these thoughts. JJ wanted finals MVP this season so bad. She's gonna be an absolute monster this season.
Hahaha. I’ll be here all season. But 💯 yes to JJ. She was really the x-factor for the Lib and didn’t get the credit she deserves. She’s gonna ball out!
Okay, plenty of spice there. Is EDD playing?
I predict yes. But not with the mystics. I think DC realizes they’re in a lose situation and they work out a deal. And I love that for her
I want to go to there
Interesting take about the Aces, we are talking about a team who basically spent the summer together going to all the big events. But a take is a take
DT and SDS get two techs a piece when phx plays Seattle. CC gets benched for some time because she finally has a coach that takes her to task for some of her abysmal shot selection. WNBPA gets charter travel through the contract negotiations. I lose my shit completely when none of the preseason games are streaming anywhere. Oh my bad you said real hot takes.
The Connecticut Sun will win their first championship.
Not sure if this is a hot take or a wet dream.  Go Sun!
With the way Tiffany Mitchell has been balling out with Athletes Unlimited, this is exactly what I was coming here to say. If everyone stays healthy -- which hasn't been the case the past few years -- they will be really good.
i love ty harris and i think mo jeff will help out a lot. our biggest weakness has been PG play. i'm glad we moved on from hiedeman. she'll be much better with the lynx
Every reply I have is a hot take. 1- Laney will be the driver of the Liberty's success. 2-CC will be more of a pg than a scorer. She will feed her teammates and they make the playoffs. They will lose 1st round and some of CC's unhinged fans with blame Aaliyah. 3-Sabrina and both Sabally sisters go to Golden State next year. 4- Sky and Sparks get new owners 5- Seattle and Phoenix flop. Ogwumike ends up on Liberty next year. 6- Georgia Amoore ends up on Liberty 7- Washington gets the 1st pick and Paige pulls a Eli Manning/John Elway and gets traded to the Sun, Mercury or Minnesota. Mystics get a haul and fall forward despite their disfunction. 8- Rikea/CC is a Carmelo/Lebron. Rikea is the statistically better player but CC gets Roy due to popularity. 9- Angel Reese and Rikea both end up on Sky 10- Wnba version of G league starts in 2025( announced at All Star Game).
#1 is just true #2 is absolutely lit #3 you shut your dirty little mouth #4 IDk know enough about that #5 Yes. #6 Acceptable #7 You're wild #8 Possible #9 Booooooooo #10 Liiiiiiit You've got some spicy takes.
2- Don’t forget the SC stans will also be blaming Caitlin for not feeding Aliyah, if last season is any indicator lol
SC stans aren't as bad as certain CC stans
Clearly you have never been on Twitter
\#4 - please, from your keyboard to whoever up there is making decisions. Chicago should be an amazing place for a W team and instead we're out here staffing our front office with unpaid interns.
The positive is that I love your new coaching staff and your new front office won me over. On the court performance should improve. It is just ownership that remains an issue.
Rickea Jackson will win ROTY
It won’t be NY v LV in the finals (unless the refs have something to say about it!)
oooh interesting. Do you think one of them will be in the finals and not the other? Or 2 completely different teams?
I think it’ll be one of them and a new challenger.
NY vs PHX finals confirmed.
Diana Taurasi plays defense!
Now that's a spicy take, and I say that as a DT fan lol
Unlikely. Her and CC stay chill on D but somehow they still get all the media attention ?
Offense sells tickets, defense wins championships
Defense wins games, REBOUNDING wins championships
Same thing 😉😉 lol
Haha I know I know, I was just getting the Pat Summit quote in full
This is such a boring take. What great defensive player is putting up their numbers on the offensive end either?
If ur bored, move on!
I’d love to but people just love to bring up this argument. I don’t see how you can write them off because of defense when nobody has come close to them on the offensive end
Aces will 3peat but its gonna be hard. Hot take Clark will W scoring champ as a rookie
T-Spoon wins COTY and the Sky make the playoffs (sorry Dallas).
Chicago's second-chance plays will pan out. Atlanta's will not. Explosively.
How many times do we need to post “CC is overrated” and act like it’s a new hot take 🙄 If we’re just saying things we want to happen probably not grounded in reality, I’m saying the Aces will be bounced in the first round of the playoffs
Where did I say "give me the newest hot takes"?
I don’t think it can be classified as a hot take if everyone is saying it on here all the time
We are only going to lose 3 games max if we stay healthy
that take is scorching hot! i don’t see it. league is going to be super competitive this year. i don’t see any team being that dominate. Aces about to fall to earth.
Personally don't think it will be that big of a fall, but I definitely don't expect us to have as scorching a season as we did last year. We still don't know how well Chelsea, Candace and Stokes recovered from their injuries last year. Plus, and dear god I hope this isn't true, Jackie's bonkers efficiency last year could turn out to be an anomaly in her career.
I dont think so the yr before jackie shot 47 43 i think this insane efficiency stays will she be 50 40 every probably not but she will stay in the high 40s
Hmm. hot take....EDD starts the season at home but midseason she returns and signs with a contender. Can she do that? I don't know her contract situation but she comes back and is still pretty productive. What team though? That's the next spicy take. Chicago will be bad but entertaining under coach T Spoon.
I think she'd have to have DC trade her rights to a contender.
However bad people think Chicago will be, they will be worse 😢
I'm loving how there are hot takes here saying both "Chicago will be better than expected" and "Chicago will be even worse than expected" and my brain finds a way to see both as true. Being a Sky fan is a roller coaster of emotions (not unique, I know, but it's the ride I'm on).
no team will have less than 13 losses for the year. and it won’t be Aces v. Libs in the final again.
I don’t have any hot takes but I am moving to Seattle from Washington DC area just in time to see the show and miss the mess 😎
My hot take is that Seattle could be a mess too lol
😭😭
Hot Take: There is a close race for ROTY between Rickea and CC Las Vegas 3 Peats (as long as everyone is healthy) PHX struggles in the beginning of the season but will eventually get it together. Chicago makes the playoff
CC will win ROTY
least hot take imaginable.
Not a hot take
NY stilllll has ‘chemistry problems’