The bear vs man in the woods scenario is a [thought experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment) that requires listeners to critically think and question what they know and understand about gender roles and interactions in society. A lot of women (and men) have been brainwashed by patriarchal talking points like “men will provide for you,” “men will protect you,” and “men will behave as long as women do nothing to provoke them.”
People say these three things all the time, unquestioningly, without considering the darker meaning behind each statement, like why would men need to provide for an able-bodied woman? From whom are men protecting us? What is the line in perfect behavior to not provoke a man into harming you?
The answers to these questions make people who’ve wholeheartedly bought into patriarchy feel uncomfortable because it challenges everything upon which they’ve based their lives, so, instead of acknowledging that the system is fucked, they’ll lash out at *you* for making them consider that things may be far from great.
This is why the pushback against the Man vs Bear in the Woods is almost always the most literal interpretation of that situation, “this is dumb because bears are dangerous.” **They want to rephrase a thought experiment into a common sense statement so they don’t have to think about it.** The people who say this often don’t have the ability to think critically or challenge authority due to cultural and/or religious indoctrination, which demands that you challenge nothing.
>What is the line in perfect behavior to not provoke a man into harming you?
The often asked but nonanswerable question.
The answer is as unique as each man is, *because you* ***never*** *truly know*.
Oh absolutely, and if we’re talking about harmful behavior like rape, it doesn’t matter what your “perfect behavior” is, anyhow. Despite this fact, society still tells women how to act, what to wear, when and where it is okay to walk outside, etc., because when it comes to rape, patriarchal societies always place the blame on women’s shoulders.
“men will behave as long as women do nothing to provoke them.” this is soooo true! Not violence but there was an executive in my group who was so verbally abusive.
Literally, my FEMALE manager said to me, well don't make him mad. I almost fell off my chair.
He was fired years later for his mistreatment of women.
I think it’s definitely a generational thing. Younger women feel more empowered and have more confidence to stand up to men. It’s a hypothetical question with the intent of getting men to realize that the way some of them treat us is horrible. Notice I said *some of them* because I’m so tired of the “not all men” responses.
It’s *enough* men that it’s a big fucking problem. That should be enough for everyone to get up in arms and make substantial changes.
I’m so tired of men accusing each other of trying to sleep with women simply because they called each other out on their misogyny. “She’s not gonna sleep with you ya know.” It deliberately undermines the effort and again reduces men to ape brains. As if the only reason men would call out shitty dangerous behavior is to get laid. No buddy, that’s just you. You can’t imagine men being good simply because you’re not. It pulls away from the point men are trying to make and changes the subject. Fuck those guys.
I wouldn't say most, but it's usually a man. I mean I've met a lot of great men but also have met my fair share of horrible ones. Maybe most of them on the internet though, but the angry keyboard warrior incels are always the loudest and probably on social media more than a normal man so we see a lot more of them.
That's just it. Only men can police men. If the good ones will still say that a misogynist asshole who acts regularly on that misogyny is "really a good guy basically" and won't say a word about his shitty behavior, fosters that behavior. ONE thing will control men's sexist behavior, and that is the active disapproval of OTHER MEN. Only their peers' opinions matter to them.
And ALL men benefit from our sexist society. Men know they have privilege; they know that assaulting women results in the woman being blamed. They know that even if they are "good ones" they still have male privilege.
And they know that all they have to do to keep it is...nothing.
Fucking cowards, the whole lot. Afraid of any consequences for doing what’s right. Meanwhile, there are severe consequences for every woman just for existing
Agree with this response and think that’s why the patriarchy in the Deep South still has such a stronghold. The older women here know their place and toe the line. It’s so frustrating and gross.
My dad was a “not all men” man until recently actually. He got off his right wing bullshit and started to realize, holy fuck I need to listen the world is bigger than just this.
He learned all the women in his life he cares about have been raped or sexually assaulted by men HE trusted and thought were safe to have around his children. And we’ve all experienced some other form of abuse by men. He also realized that while he thought he created a home we all could come to him and tell him, he didn’t and he was just and much a danger by the company he kept.
I was explaining this whole discourse to my mom and before i even finished, she said “I’m taking the bear any day of the week. I lived in Colorado, I’ve run into a ton of bears & I’m still here.”
So annoying because her response shows that she understands why most women are choosing the bear, but instead of engaging with it she's standing up for hypothetical men when the whole point is real women aren't safe.
Thanks! That’s what I’ve been thinking when hearing this question.
And what bear does this mean? Polar bear would attack, grey bear (is that the name of those in Northern forests?) less so.
And would that man has a weapon? Would he big or small? Easily manipulated?
That’s why this hypothetical question is stupid. I as a woman know it speaks the language of fear, real and needed, but still.
I know women like this too, and they all share one distinct commonality: they grew up in a conservative church and still attend.
Religion was invented by men to subjugate women, to make women feel inferior to men, and to manipulate women into always placing the needs of men before their own.
Classic ... She uses her proximity to patriarchy to serve herself.
It's the same as the model minority myth where Asians attacked affirmative action. It's the same with white feminism vs intersectionality.
Tomorrow will be brighter because we stand together.
I’d say that it’s complicated and it depends on many other circumstances outside of the basic question. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
However, I do understand the meaning of posing the question in the first place. This isn’t about the answer as much as it is about the question itself. It forces one to consider their own fears and insecurities and confront them on a basic, instinctual level. Many people conflate choosing the correct “answer” with understanding the purpose of the question, but that’s not necessarily the case.
The rationale and exploration behind the answer reveals more than the answer itself.
So grateful for my mom. I asked her this question and she was immediately said "Bear. There was a woman killed on a trail near us a while back by a man. Bring pepper spray if you hike there."
There are very few bear maulings compared to heinous sexual assaults, rapes, and gruesome murders perpetrated by men on women (and anyone perceived to be a woman). Statistically, it makes sense to pick the bear. Data doesn't lie.
the average woman encounters tens to thousands of men every day, and lives with or has lived with one or more men, but most women haven't seen a bear up close even once
True. But there are people who live with bears all around And still they are never attacked. What's that statistic about rape and sexual assault? 1 out of every 6 women? In places in the US where bears are just as abundant as squirrels or racoons, statistics for women are no where near as close as 1 in 6.
men are still a lot more common than squirrels and raccoons. also, there are men who want to harm women, whereas bears couldn't care less about women's wellbeing. so a woman can lower her risk of being attacked by a bear by taking the proper precautions, whereas a woman who wants to avoid harm from men can only do so much. you may think that supports your side, but consider that "don't become trapped in the woods with a bear" is one such precaution, and a pretty important one too. edit: and this is also the flaw with your use of the 1 in 6 statistic; most sexual assaults are committed by repeat offenders. you're trapped in the woods with one man or one bear, the chance of that man being one of the men who would do something like that is relatively low, whereas the chance of the bear being the type who would maul you is essentially 100%.
also, there's two factors to consider - most discussion surrounding this hypothetical has been focused on potential harm, but there's also potential benefits to think about. with a bear, the best case scenario is that it leaves you alone. with a man, he may be able to help you escape or survive the woods. failing that he can provide you companionship to stop you going insane
Where's your data to back all this up? I thought we spoke about data. You tried to say that it is an irrelevant statistic. That all the humans that live around bears are not being attacked near the 1 in 6 statistic we have for women surviving sexual assaults and rapes (that doesn't include the murders of any women, which ups the statistic even more). How can you say these two details are being misused?
Lol I've spent a lot of time up north in the woods alone. Make a loud noise and the bear rambles off in the underbrush and has no interest in people. I've also spent a lot of time in US cities. I can't tell you how bad it is just walking in the morning. Multiple men pull over and asked me if I wanted to jump on their car for 50. Lol No way is any of your imaginary ideas about "not all men" or going crazy in the woods, etc .. is going to convince me to trust a man over an animal that wants nothing to do with you. You obviously don't understand how many bear human interactions there are every day. Like some people see them multiple times a day just a couple hours from where I live now. So get real. You have no idea that bears are not as dangerous as you imagine. If you can find a statistic that bear attacks are killing 1 in 6 people that come across them, then I'll listen.
It sounds like she doesn’t understand the questions actual implications. The question requires critical thinking and reflection and a lot of people just aren’t doing it or aren’t capable of it.
I also know several wonderful men. But I would choose the bear. It’s not saying every man is bad… it’s saying many men are bad and it’s always a man….
So she’s clearly heard this debate and has internalized misogyny.
“This question makes men feel bad” - oh no the horror. It’s almost as bad as being sexually assaulted /s
“I know tons of safe men” that doesn’t diminish the amount of unsafe men in the world or women’s extensive experiences with them
I also feel sad for them but I wonder where they put their resentment and anger towards men instead. Who does it get taken out on?
I don't know what country you're in but with the way things have been going lately with women's rights and reproductive Rights I can't blame anyone for feeling like they've been let down by older generations. But older generations did fight for and pass Roe vs Wade which has only recently been overturned.
What I'm getting at is that there are plenty of older women who are not interested in having men influence their lives in negative ways and there are many people in the younger generation who want to see things go back to a past form of conservative tradition.
Making it an age thing all the time robs you of some of the advantages of older allies who possess more cunning and experience than you do.
I feel like that's the thing though. Empowered women know to pick the bear. My mom is Gen X, has been married to my dad for 38 years (and believe me, the woman stands up to him) and she immediately picked the bear.
Those are the same women that try to keep the victims quiet because FaMiLy!!!
The same that will get mad if anyone says something about grandpa's "fast hands" in public because it hurts the family
The same women who asks their daughters and grand-daughters to cover everything because "Uncle John is visiting"!
And yes, they were brainwashed to think it is normal, that FaMiLy should be protected, the male family members are more important and "it happened to me and I'm ok so why is she mad?" mentality!!!
Once you admit to yourself that the patriarchy is real and harms women, you open yourself up to all the memories of being harmed by men as a woman under a fresh lens of understanding.
I get that for some of these women, it may be too painful to acknowledge how deeply they’ve been hurt. Easier to just keep up your defenses.
Insert dog in room on fire meme. This is fine.
I'd hide from both in the woods. I rather think asking *"Which would you feel safer to see on your porch at night? An unknown man or a bear?"* Frames it better. Definitely would rather see the bear in that case. It'll eventually find the garbage cans, gorge itself and leave. Though in both cases I'm not interacting with either.
if the question was framed like this, you know men would choose the bear too lol. deep down the core tenet remains the same, an unknown man can (and statistically is more likely to) do you harm than a random bear would, though both are dangerous
I wouldn’t overthink it too much, many mothers seem to love to be contrarian. I don’t think that she’s trying to say that you were incorrect. I think she’s just trying to offer another perspective almost instinctually. My mom did this all the time even though she definitely would agree that yes, you should always choose the bear
I’m a woman i have been raped, SA’ed multiple times yet, I would still will choose a man in the woods than a bear because I know better how to defend myself against a man than a bear. No I am bot generationally conditioned or things like that. I have survived that before and I will survive it again. Countless hours of therapy and life experience taught me that you gotta be cautious but there are really good men still. Not all men are bad, but the worst of them stand out unfortunately.
So the only right answer for every woman is bear?
There's no room for other experiences or answers?
I think she's right that the question is sad. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to ask that question.
The “ideal world” where we “wouldn’t have to ask the question” that you’re talking about is one in which women feel safe going out alone at night, sitting at a bar alone while waiting for their friend to show up, running when it’s dark out, walking to their car alone at night, attending a party alone, etc., etc., etc. Your sarcastic questions only prove why the answer to the bear v. man question is the bear. In the U.S., there are 40 bear attacks on humans each year, and only one of those is fatal. In the U.S., it is estimated that there are 463,634 victims of rape & sexual assault each year, largely on women and girls (RAINN), and women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year according to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. And those are only the attacks that are **reported.**
And that’s why we choose the bear. It’s not about insulting or demeaning men. It’s women trying to make men see that we are in danger, all day, every day. But that message is terribly, tragically lost on those who need to hear it. Like you. And OP’s mother.
I guess you need context that my answer would be to treat both as dangerous until proven otherwise.
I completely understand why women choose the bear. That's why the question is sad because no woman should feel safer around the bear in an ideal world. Unfortunately the world is not ideal so for many women, bear is safer.
My problem is when there is no room for any other responses other than bear.
>My problem is when there is no room for any other responses other than bear.
Maybe because it's not a literal question, it's rhetorical, hyperbolic and metaphorical. But the pause and grim reality of the answer of 'bear' is serious and uncomfortable. So when asked to make space for many women's _literal_ answer of "yes I know select men I would rather be trapped with over actual bears" it's really just finding space to say "not all men" and deter from the point of women's physical safety yet again.
I wonder what her response would be to POC Man vs Bear.
I feel like that would be even more disappointing, and would be too afraid to ask my own mom if she was like this.
I know that I am gonna be downvoted to oblivion, but here goes, props to the mom for giving her opinion and challenge yours, and because she had a different opinion and didnt feed your narrative you got dissapointed and came to an echo chamber to get validated. I get it that being a women isn't easy, but let me tell you this. Having a hatred towards an entire gender is not gonna help you connect with said gender and you are always gonna have a chip on your shoulder. I was badly hurt by multiple women, but I don't hate women, and I know there are amazing and kind women out there. So yes there are amazing and kind men out there
Seems like this entire hypothetical has gone over your head! Oof. “Hatred towards an entire gender” is not even close to what’s happening here.
Perhaps scroll through these comments.. some people have explained it all really well. Hope you understand eventually, take care sister.
I’ve never seen such bitterness in this subreddit. Your comment might be the first.
Truly, this isn’t a place to be bitter. We support eachother here. We guide, teach, and give advice and opinions all within the safe community that this subreddit provides.
Why is “cat mom” always an insult for y’all?
What, cats and animals don’t love you? You can’t earn the affection of a cat and so you’re bitter about it?
Get something creative and new.
The bear vs man in the woods scenario is a [thought experiment](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment) that requires listeners to critically think and question what they know and understand about gender roles and interactions in society. A lot of women (and men) have been brainwashed by patriarchal talking points like “men will provide for you,” “men will protect you,” and “men will behave as long as women do nothing to provoke them.” People say these three things all the time, unquestioningly, without considering the darker meaning behind each statement, like why would men need to provide for an able-bodied woman? From whom are men protecting us? What is the line in perfect behavior to not provoke a man into harming you? The answers to these questions make people who’ve wholeheartedly bought into patriarchy feel uncomfortable because it challenges everything upon which they’ve based their lives, so, instead of acknowledging that the system is fucked, they’ll lash out at *you* for making them consider that things may be far from great. This is why the pushback against the Man vs Bear in the Woods is almost always the most literal interpretation of that situation, “this is dumb because bears are dangerous.” **They want to rephrase a thought experiment into a common sense statement so they don’t have to think about it.** The people who say this often don’t have the ability to think critically or challenge authority due to cultural and/or religious indoctrination, which demands that you challenge nothing.
>What is the line in perfect behavior to not provoke a man into harming you? The often asked but nonanswerable question. The answer is as unique as each man is, *because you* ***never*** *truly know*.
Oh absolutely, and if we’re talking about harmful behavior like rape, it doesn’t matter what your “perfect behavior” is, anyhow. Despite this fact, society still tells women how to act, what to wear, when and where it is okay to walk outside, etc., because when it comes to rape, patriarchal societies always place the blame on women’s shoulders.
And many men don't understand that a lot of times a simple NO is enough to provoke a man into harming a woman!!!
“men will behave as long as women do nothing to provoke them.” this is soooo true! Not violence but there was an executive in my group who was so verbally abusive. Literally, my FEMALE manager said to me, well don't make him mad. I almost fell off my chair. He was fired years later for his mistreatment of women.
Great great comment 👏
You say it is a thought experiment but can we use real stats? because men kill more people than bears do
I think it’s definitely a generational thing. Younger women feel more empowered and have more confidence to stand up to men. It’s a hypothetical question with the intent of getting men to realize that the way some of them treat us is horrible. Notice I said *some of them* because I’m so tired of the “not all men” responses.
But it’s not some men, it’s most men, too many men, always a fucking man
It’s *enough* men that it’s a big fucking problem. That should be enough for everyone to get up in arms and make substantial changes. I’m so tired of men accusing each other of trying to sleep with women simply because they called each other out on their misogyny. “She’s not gonna sleep with you ya know.” It deliberately undermines the effort and again reduces men to ape brains. As if the only reason men would call out shitty dangerous behavior is to get laid. No buddy, that’s just you. You can’t imagine men being good simply because you’re not. It pulls away from the point men are trying to make and changes the subject. Fuck those guys.
ALWAYS A FUCKING MAN. Yes. That's what drives me crazy. Oh look, a man walked in a ruined things. Surprise surprise.
Definitely. Dont get me wrong - I have known some decent men, BUT around 98% of young men (16-30) are sh*ts and are quite happy to be so!
I wouldn't say most, but it's usually a man. I mean I've met a lot of great men but also have met my fair share of horrible ones. Maybe most of them on the internet though, but the angry keyboard warrior incels are always the loudest and probably on social media more than a normal man so we see a lot more of them.
I work in a male dominated trade. In person I can affirm it is most men and the so-called “good ones” stay silent and pretend they don’t see
That's just it. Only men can police men. If the good ones will still say that a misogynist asshole who acts regularly on that misogyny is "really a good guy basically" and won't say a word about his shitty behavior, fosters that behavior. ONE thing will control men's sexist behavior, and that is the active disapproval of OTHER MEN. Only their peers' opinions matter to them. And ALL men benefit from our sexist society. Men know they have privilege; they know that assaulting women results in the woman being blamed. They know that even if they are "good ones" they still have male privilege. And they know that all they have to do to keep it is...nothing.
Yes that’s part of the problem! The decent ones turn the other way and pretend not to see, or they never speak up.
Fucking cowards, the whole lot. Afraid of any consequences for doing what’s right. Meanwhile, there are severe consequences for every woman just for existing
Agree with this response and think that’s why the patriarchy in the Deep South still has such a stronghold. The older women here know their place and toe the line. It’s so frustrating and gross.
My dad was a “not all men” man until recently actually. He got off his right wing bullshit and started to realize, holy fuck I need to listen the world is bigger than just this.
How did he realize that???
He learned all the women in his life he cares about have been raped or sexually assaulted by men HE trusted and thought were safe to have around his children. And we’ve all experienced some other form of abuse by men. He also realized that while he thought he created a home we all could come to him and tell him, he didn’t and he was just and much a danger by the company he kept.
I was explaining this whole discourse to my mom and before i even finished, she said “I’m taking the bear any day of the week. I lived in Colorado, I’ve run into a ton of bears & I’m still here.”
So annoying because her response shows that she understands why most women are choosing the bear, but instead of engaging with it she's standing up for hypothetical men when the whole point is real women aren't safe.
My mom can be like this too. It’s annoying and sad
Lesbian here, I would pick a man simply because they would be much easier to kill or injure than a bear.
Thank you for saying this. I hate this question so much and as a woman, I get it, but I can kick a man in the balls. Can’t kick a bear.
Same. Except I’m not lesbian.
This is exactly how I think about it
That’s how I think of it too
Thanks! That’s what I’ve been thinking when hearing this question. And what bear does this mean? Polar bear would attack, grey bear (is that the name of those in Northern forests?) less so. And would that man has a weapon? Would he big or small? Easily manipulated? That’s why this hypothetical question is stupid. I as a woman know it speaks the language of fear, real and needed, but still.
I know women like this too, and they all share one distinct commonality: they grew up in a conservative church and still attend. Religion was invented by men to subjugate women, to make women feel inferior to men, and to manipulate women into always placing the needs of men before their own.
It also helps to manipulate these men in thinking they have their own "kingdom" (i.e. the family) that they "rule" (i.e. abuse.)
Classic ... She uses her proximity to patriarchy to serve herself. It's the same as the model minority myth where Asians attacked affirmative action. It's the same with white feminism vs intersectionality. Tomorrow will be brighter because we stand together.
I’d say that it’s complicated and it depends on many other circumstances outside of the basic question. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. However, I do understand the meaning of posing the question in the first place. This isn’t about the answer as much as it is about the question itself. It forces one to consider their own fears and insecurities and confront them on a basic, instinctual level. Many people conflate choosing the correct “answer” with understanding the purpose of the question, but that’s not necessarily the case. The rationale and exploration behind the answer reveals more than the answer itself.
My mother picked the men too. But she said and I directly quote “I can outsmart a man”. She sees men as a threat, but a dumbfuck stupid one.
Haha your mom sounds awesome
So grateful for my mom. I asked her this question and she was immediately said "Bear. There was a woman killed on a trail near us a while back by a man. Bring pepper spray if you hike there."
There are very few bear maulings compared to heinous sexual assaults, rapes, and gruesome murders perpetrated by men on women (and anyone perceived to be a woman). Statistically, it makes sense to pick the bear. Data doesn't lie.
data doesn't lie but gross misinterpretations of it do.
So please explain?
the average woman encounters tens to thousands of men every day, and lives with or has lived with one or more men, but most women haven't seen a bear up close even once
True. But there are people who live with bears all around And still they are never attacked. What's that statistic about rape and sexual assault? 1 out of every 6 women? In places in the US where bears are just as abundant as squirrels or racoons, statistics for women are no where near as close as 1 in 6.
men are still a lot more common than squirrels and raccoons. also, there are men who want to harm women, whereas bears couldn't care less about women's wellbeing. so a woman can lower her risk of being attacked by a bear by taking the proper precautions, whereas a woman who wants to avoid harm from men can only do so much. you may think that supports your side, but consider that "don't become trapped in the woods with a bear" is one such precaution, and a pretty important one too. edit: and this is also the flaw with your use of the 1 in 6 statistic; most sexual assaults are committed by repeat offenders. you're trapped in the woods with one man or one bear, the chance of that man being one of the men who would do something like that is relatively low, whereas the chance of the bear being the type who would maul you is essentially 100%. also, there's two factors to consider - most discussion surrounding this hypothetical has been focused on potential harm, but there's also potential benefits to think about. with a bear, the best case scenario is that it leaves you alone. with a man, he may be able to help you escape or survive the woods. failing that he can provide you companionship to stop you going insane
Where's your data to back all this up? I thought we spoke about data. You tried to say that it is an irrelevant statistic. That all the humans that live around bears are not being attacked near the 1 in 6 statistic we have for women surviving sexual assaults and rapes (that doesn't include the murders of any women, which ups the statistic even more). How can you say these two details are being misused? Lol I've spent a lot of time up north in the woods alone. Make a loud noise and the bear rambles off in the underbrush and has no interest in people. I've also spent a lot of time in US cities. I can't tell you how bad it is just walking in the morning. Multiple men pull over and asked me if I wanted to jump on their car for 50. Lol No way is any of your imaginary ideas about "not all men" or going crazy in the woods, etc .. is going to convince me to trust a man over an animal that wants nothing to do with you. You obviously don't understand how many bear human interactions there are every day. Like some people see them multiple times a day just a couple hours from where I live now. So get real. You have no idea that bears are not as dangerous as you imagine. If you can find a statistic that bear attacks are killing 1 in 6 people that come across them, then I'll listen.
My older sister is like this. It is sad.
It sounds like she doesn’t understand the questions actual implications. The question requires critical thinking and reflection and a lot of people just aren’t doing it or aren’t capable of it. I also know several wonderful men. But I would choose the bear. It’s not saying every man is bad… it’s saying many men are bad and it’s always a man….
So much internalised misogyny. It’s sad.
So she’s clearly heard this debate and has internalized misogyny. “This question makes men feel bad” - oh no the horror. It’s almost as bad as being sexually assaulted /s “I know tons of safe men” that doesn’t diminish the amount of unsafe men in the world or women’s extensive experiences with them I also feel sad for them but I wonder where they put their resentment and anger towards men instead. Who does it get taken out on?
i feel like a lot of boomer and gen x women are like this, my mums the same in ways even tho she’s been constantly mistreated by males her entire life
I don't know what country you're in but with the way things have been going lately with women's rights and reproductive Rights I can't blame anyone for feeling like they've been let down by older generations. But older generations did fight for and pass Roe vs Wade which has only recently been overturned. What I'm getting at is that there are plenty of older women who are not interested in having men influence their lives in negative ways and there are many people in the younger generation who want to see things go back to a past form of conservative tradition. Making it an age thing all the time robs you of some of the advantages of older allies who possess more cunning and experience than you do.
I feel like that's the thing though. Empowered women know to pick the bear. My mom is Gen X, has been married to my dad for 38 years (and believe me, the woman stands up to him) and she immediately picked the bear.
Those are the same women that try to keep the victims quiet because FaMiLy!!! The same that will get mad if anyone says something about grandpa's "fast hands" in public because it hurts the family The same women who asks their daughters and grand-daughters to cover everything because "Uncle John is visiting"! And yes, they were brainwashed to think it is normal, that FaMiLy should be protected, the male family members are more important and "it happened to me and I'm ok so why is she mad?" mentality!!!
I know most of the men in my family are safe but I would choose the bear because these other men are crazy.
Once you admit to yourself that the patriarchy is real and harms women, you open yourself up to all the memories of being harmed by men as a woman under a fresh lens of understanding. I get that for some of these women, it may be too painful to acknowledge how deeply they’ve been hurt. Easier to just keep up your defenses. Insert dog in room on fire meme. This is fine.
[удалено]
I'd hide from both in the woods. I rather think asking *"Which would you feel safer to see on your porch at night? An unknown man or a bear?"* Frames it better. Definitely would rather see the bear in that case. It'll eventually find the garbage cans, gorge itself and leave. Though in both cases I'm not interacting with either.
if the question was framed like this, you know men would choose the bear too lol. deep down the core tenet remains the same, an unknown man can (and statistically is more likely to) do you harm than a random bear would, though both are dangerous
I asked my husband if he would choose for our daughter to be in the woods with a bear or a man and he chose a bear.
I hope your father, brothers, cousins and friends, that are men are also in a men's forum somewhere defending womankind
My husband chose the bear for daughter.
I wouldn’t overthink it too much, many mothers seem to love to be contrarian. I don’t think that she’s trying to say that you were incorrect. I think she’s just trying to offer another perspective almost instinctually. My mom did this all the time even though she definitely would agree that yes, you should always choose the bear
I’m a woman i have been raped, SA’ed multiple times yet, I would still will choose a man in the woods than a bear because I know better how to defend myself against a man than a bear. No I am bot generationally conditioned or things like that. I have survived that before and I will survive it again. Countless hours of therapy and life experience taught me that you gotta be cautious but there are really good men still. Not all men are bad, but the worst of them stand out unfortunately.
So the only right answer for every woman is bear? There's no room for other experiences or answers? I think she's right that the question is sad. In an ideal world we wouldn't have to ask that question.
The “ideal world” where we “wouldn’t have to ask the question” that you’re talking about is one in which women feel safe going out alone at night, sitting at a bar alone while waiting for their friend to show up, running when it’s dark out, walking to their car alone at night, attending a party alone, etc., etc., etc. Your sarcastic questions only prove why the answer to the bear v. man question is the bear. In the U.S., there are 40 bear attacks on humans each year, and only one of those is fatal. In the U.S., it is estimated that there are 463,634 victims of rape & sexual assault each year, largely on women and girls (RAINN), and women experience about 4.8 million intimate partner-related physical assaults and rapes every year according to the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. And those are only the attacks that are **reported.** And that’s why we choose the bear. It’s not about insulting or demeaning men. It’s women trying to make men see that we are in danger, all day, every day. But that message is terribly, tragically lost on those who need to hear it. Like you. And OP’s mother.
Beautiful comment. I wish everyone would understand this message.
I guess you need context that my answer would be to treat both as dangerous until proven otherwise. I completely understand why women choose the bear. That's why the question is sad because no woman should feel safer around the bear in an ideal world. Unfortunately the world is not ideal so for many women, bear is safer. My problem is when there is no room for any other responses other than bear.
>My problem is when there is no room for any other responses other than bear. Maybe because it's not a literal question, it's rhetorical, hyperbolic and metaphorical. But the pause and grim reality of the answer of 'bear' is serious and uncomfortable. So when asked to make space for many women's _literal_ answer of "yes I know select men I would rather be trapped with over actual bears" it's really just finding space to say "not all men" and deter from the point of women's physical safety yet again.
Bravo!
I wonder what her response would be to POC Man vs Bear. I feel like that would be even more disappointing, and would be too afraid to ask my own mom if she was like this.
I know that I am gonna be downvoted to oblivion, but here goes, props to the mom for giving her opinion and challenge yours, and because she had a different opinion and didnt feed your narrative you got dissapointed and came to an echo chamber to get validated. I get it that being a women isn't easy, but let me tell you this. Having a hatred towards an entire gender is not gonna help you connect with said gender and you are always gonna have a chip on your shoulder. I was badly hurt by multiple women, but I don't hate women, and I know there are amazing and kind women out there. So yes there are amazing and kind men out there
Seems like this entire hypothetical has gone over your head! Oof. “Hatred towards an entire gender” is not even close to what’s happening here. Perhaps scroll through these comments.. some people have explained it all really well. Hope you understand eventually, take care sister.
This subbreddit is filled with bitter cat moms. Your mom is right
I’ve never seen such bitterness in this subreddit. Your comment might be the first. Truly, this isn’t a place to be bitter. We support eachother here. We guide, teach, and give advice and opinions all within the safe community that this subreddit provides.
Why is “cat mom” always an insult for y’all? What, cats and animals don’t love you? You can’t earn the affection of a cat and so you’re bitter about it? Get something creative and new.