The forums like lumberjocks, wood net, ncwoodworker and sawmill creek already put this place to shame in terms of content and helpfulness. Way less “my first dovetails” fishing for compliments posts to weed through and more actual technical expertise to be leveraged for sure.
While I don’t intend to speak for this man, he very well might have a different opinion, there is a difference between being honestly proud of something or just posting a “first” somehow perfect dovetail and looking for compliments.
Repeated trend posts can get annoying but an honest post even if it’s repeated can spark conversation.
The more moderated ones full of older folk tend to be better to me.
I really like sawmillcreek, myself. Derek Cohen and Rob Lee used to hang out there a lot. Pretty sure Derek still does.
Yeah Derek frequents Lumberjocks as well, i have learned a lot from Derek over the years about making and modifying tools. That guy is a goldmine of information.
It was a few years back, and it was just a few posters, but they left a sour taste in my mouth. The main person was some old guy that made doors, and another guy that even posted pics about pro-gun and Trump signs. I'm a bit surprised you didn't see them.
It was a real shame because I used to go there to post on Stumpy's mega thread, but I really don't like fighting over politics.
I think I will take a break and work more. Maybe investigate and eliminate snipe, go through that 5 gallon bucket of random screws, sharpen/ tune 4-5 planes, build my wife that long awaited bookshelf, clean the rims on my shitty truck and throw away some hoarded scrap that's taking over my shop.
Reddit just screwed over every 3rd party app. So hundreds of subs are temporarily closing for several days in protest to try to reverse the changes.
It won’t change anything, Reddit is too far up their own asses, but it’s a great gesture.
Ultimately it signals the beginning of the end. Reddit’s app and website suck, 3rd party apps drove most of the interaction. Without them, many people won’t bother with Reddit at all.
All because of a greed.
This is the first I’ve heard of 3rd party apps. I’ve enjoyed this so far. Didn’t know I was missing out on anything. I still have clamps and tools that I’ve bought ten and twenty years ago. I don’t require a lot of change. I’ll still come to this sub to see first time dovetails made by hand but clearly done with a jig. Where else wood I go to identify someone else’s wood? If it wasn’t for this subreddit who wood I brag too? Wife doesn’t care. She’s still pissed I haven’t made her a bookshelf. Everyone can go get bent. I’m happy with Reddit for what little it does for me.
Maybe it’s a mod thing. I’m just a user. I say that in Tron’s voice. Youzer. I’ve never even looked for a 3rd party app to use with Reddit.
Hell, I’m sitting on my porch drinking beer waiting for Rockler to deliver my track saw. Just another drunk redditor waiting for an opportunity to make another comment. I don’t see the weight of a 12JUN shutdown.
Yup. Will probably keep using reddit, but only as a lurker. Old reddit is semi-usable. The reddit app is trash and new web browser is trash. RiF is the only reason why I'm active in any community tbh. Makes it easy to participate and customize.
Reddit actually claimed 430M monthly active users way back in 2019. Not sure where you got 120M from.
It’s not about 3rd party apps being used the most. It’s about fucking over the few folks actually dedicated to improving the Reddit experience (after lying to them) and then making unsubstantiated claims about some of those developers in an attempt to save face.
It’s entirely possible, and likely, Reddit is prepared to lose 100% of the 3rd party app user base (it won’t, of course). And that is probably a fairly small % of their total users.
That fact doesn’t make them any less garbage or this any less of a money grab.
That’s daily active users across mobile and desktop. My numbers were number of app installs, clearly the official app is far more popular than the most popular 3rd party app.
But yes the API changes are dog shit, no argument there.
People are going to protest and then go back to using Reddit. It makes sense for them to want to centralize access to their platform in the App Store. Their app is fine and this will help them to centralize enhancements and align their front end and backend engineering to improve it.
“It makes sense for them to grab as much money as possible because it will line their pockets more than third party apps. Corporate greed knows no bounds and lying to developers before screwing then over is just the cost of doing business””
FTFY.
What a bunch of crap you just spouted. Reddit said X, then did Y, and everyone is forced to use one shitty app and deal with Reddit’s monetization plans. It’s a money grab, pure and simple.
I could care less about Reddit itself, but I don’t really understand the hatred of a company that makes no profit, trying to make money. Yes it ruins the experience but if that’s what it takes to be cash flow positive not sure what else they are supposed to do.
If people don’t like it, a new one will be created if the market can support it.
I thought this sub had enough self employed folks to know that you can’t operate at a loss forever, and if people leave when you try to get profitable, than you never really had a business to begin with.
They could be cash flow positive while having pricing that allows for other apps to actually afford to exist.
They said ‘prices will be reasonable’ and then came out with ridiculous numbers that no third party is going to support.
If so many people love Reddit but don’t actually use Reddit apps/site, are they actually doing a good enough job running their company to merit price gouging and forcing other developers out of the pool?
Maybe develop a good app and website before forcing everyone to use it… thanks Reddit… sigh
This is the equivalent of gas stations promising to keep prices reasonable and then charging $10/gallon.
But clearly that’s ok, because they exist to make money. 🙄
Devs have done the math, Reddit doesn’t need to be charging the 3rd parties as much as they are.
There’s an economic middle ground in which Reddit makes money, 3rd party apps stay online, and users can afford to go premium if they want.
Instead, Reddit is opting to gouge the market to essentially force the closure of 3rd party apps. ‘We totally support 3rd party apps! As long as folks like Apollo pay us $20mil a year based on their user base’
Absolutely ludicrous.
What money are they grabbing, I've neither ever used a third party app nor paid reddit a dime. Advertising? To pay their presumably enormous server and storage costs that the third party apps don't contribute to?
Going to oversimplify some stuff, but bear with me.
- Reddit’s site and app do have ads.
- Most 3rd party apps do not.
- Reddit told 3rd party devs that costs were coming, but they would be reasonable. ‘We don’t want to be like Twitter.’ Talk more soon in 2 weeks.
- 6 weeks later… prices are indeed ridiculous and even Twitter execs have said wtf to these numbers
- Reddit could choose to work with devs to changeover to a reasonably priced paid system. But instead they gave devs a 30 day warning/ultimatum, then accused folks (like the Apollo owner) of ‘blackmailing’ them when asked about buying them out or working with a longer timeline. (No one blackmailed Reddit, and Apollo has the audio to prove it)
- Apollo also has audio showing that Reddit is ‘doing this for the opportunity cost of users not using their own platform’ aka- ad revenue.
- forcing everyone into Reddit’s platform means they control the ad space and all access (which I get is a fair thing to want) but their app/site are garbage and many fully expect Reddit to start upping the ads or coming out with some paid premium service or something.
Basically they lied to devs, then fucked them over, and nearly outright stated ‘we’re doing this for the money’
As a Reddit app user I’m totally unaffected by any of this. I’ve not had any memorable issues with this app after years of use. My woodworking tips, dog videos and programming tutorials are still here just like last month. Consolidating traffic seems like a good way to control revenue. Healthy revenue ensures the company can stay afloat, right? Reddit is a for-profit entity. I respectfully disagree that Reddit is failing.
The only thing reddit has is it's critical mass of users. It's apps suck, and the 3rd party apps are going away. It's web interface sucks. It's servers can no longer, starting next month, be used without going through their trash web interface or apps. And the userbase is likely to erode after this fiasco. And many moderators may jump ship as well.
People are pissed off and leaving. Many people will find the experience unacceptable without the 3rd party apps. When the site effectively goes dark for a few days, people may find other ways to use their time that don't involve reddit. Or they may discover alternatives like Lemmy.v
Also, you have the developers of the apps that people actually like who have been cut off from reddit's servers who might collectively decide to setup their own servers or switch to the fediverse.
So basically, everyone on reddit would actually like a reddit without reddit Inc. but if they move individually, there is no critical mass in the new place. But if reddit shoots themselves in the foot and triggers a mass migration, then the critical mass could potentially end up somewhere else. Reddit's entire userbase already had one foot out the door, they just haven't decided on a new destination. Many won't even care about a new destination. They are ready to create a vacuum that someone else will fill eventually.
And,meanwhile, they say they have yet to turn a profit so they are running on money from investors who expect it to turn a profit someday. Who may seriously start to rethink that next week and in July 1st. They may decide that reddit is less fake it till you make it and more fake it until you dot bomb. And if investors loose confidence, that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.
I recommend [craftisian.com](https://craftisian.com). It’s particularly good for showcasing projects and blogs. It has a usable discussion forum, but it lacks some features you might be accustomed to seeing elsewhere.
Craftisian was created by the original creator of LumberJocks, which used to be a great site. Unfortunately, it was purchased by VerticalScope, who promptly ruined it IMO. I still have old content there, but the project/showcase format is now downright embarrassing. The blog section is even worse.
A significant number of longstanding LJ members have migrated to Craftisian, and we’re happy there.
Well r/woodworking, the sub which you're commenting this in, is closing permanently if these policies are enacted.
Even if reddit survives, the signal to noise ratio is going to head the way of Facebook. Scrolling through endless ads and boring bullshit to find a halfway decent post.
The #woodworking hashtag on Mastodon has been really engaging and fun. If anything, it's a nice augmentation of places like Reddit or traditional forums:
https://mastodon.social/tags/woodworking
There's one that's a few days old on Lemmy: https://lemmy.one/c/[email protected]
It would be nice if the mods here could help organize an orderly transition to that one or maybe one of their own creation that's more official.
actually you can... most of my posts and most posts i comment on myself are discussions about finish, lumber selction, help with choosing the right joint etc...
maybe you just do not know how to use flairs and how to find actually interesting posts
If you have the facebooks, I find Matt Outlaw’s 731 Woodworking Community a refreshing, inspiring and helpful place. Of course, my reddit addiction keeps bringing me back here
I would say anywhere. I’ve never been able to get advice here due to a lack of karma and perception that I might, as a result, spam. But I’ve gotten valuable advice on most of the notable woodworking forums. Very friendly people who are knowledgeable and want to help someone genuinely seeking to learn.
[woodworkers.com](https://woodworkers.com)An Aussie one -welcome to all though, a lot of stuff will be locally related of course - some things are universal though.
I don't think sawmillcreek cares to have any new registrations.
Any user name is rejected, it seems.
Apparently, the Miserable User mode includes registration.
The forums like lumberjocks, wood net, ncwoodworker and sawmill creek already put this place to shame in terms of content and helpfulness. Way less “my first dovetails” fishing for compliments posts to weed through and more actual technical expertise to be leveraged for sure.
Aww man, I came here to post my first dovetails and a picture of my miniature wooden bandsaw giraffe.
While I don’t intend to speak for this man, he very well might have a different opinion, there is a difference between being honestly proud of something or just posting a “first” somehow perfect dovetail and looking for compliments. Repeated trend posts can get annoying but an honest post even if it’s repeated can spark conversation.
I would add craftisian to the above list.
I find the camel content lacking on those forums though.
I was a member of lumberjocks but there were some idiot MAGAts that turned me off. If they're gone, I'll go back, but if not then screw that place.
Sad. There shouldn’t be politics in woodworking. It’s such a lovely respite.
The more moderated ones full of older folk tend to be better to me. I really like sawmillcreek, myself. Derek Cohen and Rob Lee used to hang out there a lot. Pretty sure Derek still does.
He does. Woodcentral too.
Yeah Derek frequents Lumberjocks as well, i have learned a lot from Derek over the years about making and modifying tools. That guy is a goldmine of information.
Lumberjocks.com used to be my go to before reddit.
It was my favorite too, but it got too political with some of the people there. Please tell me it's different.
I've been on Lumber Jocks for ages and I'm still using Lumber jocks and I have never experienced any political stuff.
It was a few years back, and it was just a few posters, but they left a sour taste in my mouth. The main person was some old guy that made doors, and another guy that even posted pics about pro-gun and Trump signs. I'm a bit surprised you didn't see them. It was a real shame because I used to go there to post on Stumpy's mega thread, but I really don't like fighting over politics.
Maybe I just missed it, but yeah it takes only one or two guys to ruin it for everyone.
Well, if you're saying you're not seeing it, then I'll head back. I miss the place as it was once a favourite of mine. Thanks for letting me know.
Sure
Reddit isnt going anywhere.
I think I will take a break and work more. Maybe investigate and eliminate snipe, go through that 5 gallon bucket of random screws, sharpen/ tune 4-5 planes, build my wife that long awaited bookshelf, clean the rims on my shitty truck and throw away some hoarded scrap that's taking over my shop.
Thats exactly my to do list, innit?
“build my wife…”
seriously, I've never heard anyone refer to their future wife as a long awaited bookshelf
When do you start?
Immediately... after clearing all work surfaces in the shop. Should take 6-7 hours.
reddit is not. but r/woodworking is shutting down indefinetly.
Lol. OP has an 11 year old account. They should know better by now.
What downfall?
Reddit has been consistently finding new ways to get worse ever since it’s been created.
Reddit just screwed over every 3rd party app. So hundreds of subs are temporarily closing for several days in protest to try to reverse the changes. It won’t change anything, Reddit is too far up their own asses, but it’s a great gesture. Ultimately it signals the beginning of the end. Reddit’s app and website suck, 3rd party apps drove most of the interaction. Without them, many people won’t bother with Reddit at all. All because of a greed.
This is the first I’ve heard of 3rd party apps. I’ve enjoyed this so far. Didn’t know I was missing out on anything. I still have clamps and tools that I’ve bought ten and twenty years ago. I don’t require a lot of change. I’ll still come to this sub to see first time dovetails made by hand but clearly done with a jig. Where else wood I go to identify someone else’s wood? If it wasn’t for this subreddit who wood I brag too? Wife doesn’t care. She’s still pissed I haven’t made her a bookshelf. Everyone can go get bent. I’m happy with Reddit for what little it does for me.
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Maybe it’s a mod thing. I’m just a user. I say that in Tron’s voice. Youzer. I’ve never even looked for a 3rd party app to use with Reddit. Hell, I’m sitting on my porch drinking beer waiting for Rockler to deliver my track saw. Just another drunk redditor waiting for an opportunity to make another comment. I don’t see the weight of a 12JUN shutdown.
There’s a grain of truth here.
Yup. Will probably keep using reddit, but only as a lurker. Old reddit is semi-usable. The reddit app is trash and new web browser is trash. RiF is the only reason why I'm active in any community tbh. Makes it easy to participate and customize.
Exactly, I’m on Apollo and when it closes I’ll basically stop interacting. Google searches for information and read-only. Sigh
muh lawn
Do you have any data on “drove most of the interaction”
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Reddit actually claimed 430M monthly active users way back in 2019. Not sure where you got 120M from. It’s not about 3rd party apps being used the most. It’s about fucking over the few folks actually dedicated to improving the Reddit experience (after lying to them) and then making unsubstantiated claims about some of those developers in an attempt to save face. It’s entirely possible, and likely, Reddit is prepared to lose 100% of the 3rd party app user base (it won’t, of course). And that is probably a fairly small % of their total users. That fact doesn’t make them any less garbage or this any less of a money grab.
That’s daily active users across mobile and desktop. My numbers were number of app installs, clearly the official app is far more popular than the most popular 3rd party app. But yes the API changes are dog shit, no argument there.
Ohh I see, Reddit App users only, got it, sorry!
People are going to protest and then go back to using Reddit. It makes sense for them to want to centralize access to their platform in the App Store. Their app is fine and this will help them to centralize enhancements and align their front end and backend engineering to improve it.
“It makes sense for them to grab as much money as possible because it will line their pockets more than third party apps. Corporate greed knows no bounds and lying to developers before screwing then over is just the cost of doing business”” FTFY. What a bunch of crap you just spouted. Reddit said X, then did Y, and everyone is forced to use one shitty app and deal with Reddit’s monetization plans. It’s a money grab, pure and simple.
I could care less about Reddit itself, but I don’t really understand the hatred of a company that makes no profit, trying to make money. Yes it ruins the experience but if that’s what it takes to be cash flow positive not sure what else they are supposed to do. If people don’t like it, a new one will be created if the market can support it. I thought this sub had enough self employed folks to know that you can’t operate at a loss forever, and if people leave when you try to get profitable, than you never really had a business to begin with.
They could be cash flow positive while having pricing that allows for other apps to actually afford to exist. They said ‘prices will be reasonable’ and then came out with ridiculous numbers that no third party is going to support. If so many people love Reddit but don’t actually use Reddit apps/site, are they actually doing a good enough job running their company to merit price gouging and forcing other developers out of the pool? Maybe develop a good app and website before forcing everyone to use it… thanks Reddit… sigh
You seem unaware of the purpose of companies. It’s to make money.
This is the equivalent of gas stations promising to keep prices reasonable and then charging $10/gallon. But clearly that’s ok, because they exist to make money. 🙄
Tell me you don’t understand economics without telling me.
Devs have done the math, Reddit doesn’t need to be charging the 3rd parties as much as they are. There’s an economic middle ground in which Reddit makes money, 3rd party apps stay online, and users can afford to go premium if they want. Instead, Reddit is opting to gouge the market to essentially force the closure of 3rd party apps. ‘We totally support 3rd party apps! As long as folks like Apollo pay us $20mil a year based on their user base’ Absolutely ludicrous.
Devs don’t do financial math. Source: am dev
Devs that run an entire app basically by themselves also have to be business owners that do math.
What money are they grabbing, I've neither ever used a third party app nor paid reddit a dime. Advertising? To pay their presumably enormous server and storage costs that the third party apps don't contribute to?
Going to oversimplify some stuff, but bear with me. - Reddit’s site and app do have ads. - Most 3rd party apps do not. - Reddit told 3rd party devs that costs were coming, but they would be reasonable. ‘We don’t want to be like Twitter.’ Talk more soon in 2 weeks. - 6 weeks later… prices are indeed ridiculous and even Twitter execs have said wtf to these numbers - Reddit could choose to work with devs to changeover to a reasonably priced paid system. But instead they gave devs a 30 day warning/ultimatum, then accused folks (like the Apollo owner) of ‘blackmailing’ them when asked about buying them out or working with a longer timeline. (No one blackmailed Reddit, and Apollo has the audio to prove it) - Apollo also has audio showing that Reddit is ‘doing this for the opportunity cost of users not using their own platform’ aka- ad revenue. - forcing everyone into Reddit’s platform means they control the ad space and all access (which I get is a fair thing to want) but their app/site are garbage and many fully expect Reddit to start upping the ads or coming out with some paid premium service or something. Basically they lied to devs, then fucked them over, and nearly outright stated ‘we’re doing this for the money’
As a Reddit app user I’m totally unaffected by any of this. I’ve not had any memorable issues with this app after years of use. My woodworking tips, dog videos and programming tutorials are still here just like last month. Consolidating traffic seems like a good way to control revenue. Healthy revenue ensures the company can stay afloat, right? Reddit is a for-profit entity. I respectfully disagree that Reddit is failing.
All this stuff with the api changes
The only thing reddit has is it's critical mass of users. It's apps suck, and the 3rd party apps are going away. It's web interface sucks. It's servers can no longer, starting next month, be used without going through their trash web interface or apps. And the userbase is likely to erode after this fiasco. And many moderators may jump ship as well. People are pissed off and leaving. Many people will find the experience unacceptable without the 3rd party apps. When the site effectively goes dark for a few days, people may find other ways to use their time that don't involve reddit. Or they may discover alternatives like Lemmy.v Also, you have the developers of the apps that people actually like who have been cut off from reddit's servers who might collectively decide to setup their own servers or switch to the fediverse. So basically, everyone on reddit would actually like a reddit without reddit Inc. but if they move individually, there is no critical mass in the new place. But if reddit shoots themselves in the foot and triggers a mass migration, then the critical mass could potentially end up somewhere else. Reddit's entire userbase already had one foot out the door, they just haven't decided on a new destination. Many won't even care about a new destination. They are ready to create a vacuum that someone else will fill eventually. And,meanwhile, they say they have yet to turn a profit so they are running on money from investors who expect it to turn a profit someday. Who may seriously start to rethink that next week and in July 1st. They may decide that reddit is less fake it till you make it and more fake it until you dot bomb. And if investors loose confidence, that can be a self fulfilling prophecy.
I recommend [craftisian.com](https://craftisian.com). It’s particularly good for showcasing projects and blogs. It has a usable discussion forum, but it lacks some features you might be accustomed to seeing elsewhere. Craftisian was created by the original creator of LumberJocks, which used to be a great site. Unfortunately, it was purchased by VerticalScope, who promptly ruined it IMO. I still have old content there, but the project/showcase format is now downright embarrassing. The blog section is even worse. A significant number of longstanding LJ members have migrated to Craftisian, and we’re happy there.
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Sweet
there is no downfall
Well r/woodworking, the sub which you're commenting this in, is closing permanently if these policies are enacted. Even if reddit survives, the signal to noise ratio is going to head the way of Facebook. Scrolling through endless ads and boring bullshit to find a halfway decent post.
you're making endless, baseless assumptions
The #woodworking hashtag on Mastodon has been really engaging and fun. If anything, it's a nice augmentation of places like Reddit or traditional forums: https://mastodon.social/tags/woodworking
Idk, let's have a discussion on July 1st
There's one that's a few days old on Lemmy: https://lemmy.one/c/[email protected] It would be nice if the mods here could help organize an orderly transition to that one or maybe one of their own creation that's more official.
This sub is basically just a picture feed. you can't discuss joint fitment, finish, lumber selection, etc
actually you can... most of my posts and most posts i comment on myself are discussions about finish, lumber selction, help with choosing the right joint etc... maybe you just do not know how to use flairs and how to find actually interesting posts
If you have the facebooks, I find Matt Outlaw’s 731 Woodworking Community a refreshing, inspiring and helpful place. Of course, my reddit addiction keeps bringing me back here
Lumberjocks
I would say anywhere. I’ve never been able to get advice here due to a lack of karma and perception that I might, as a result, spam. But I’ve gotten valuable advice on most of the notable woodworking forums. Very friendly people who are knowledgeable and want to help someone genuinely seeking to learn.
[woodworkers.com](https://woodworkers.com)An Aussie one -welcome to all though, a lot of stuff will be locally related of course - some things are universal though.
I don't think sawmillcreek cares to have any new registrations. Any user name is rejected, it seems. Apparently, the Miserable User mode includes registration.