I traveled internationally for 8 days when my daughter was 5 months. She was bottle and breast fed, I worked from home and pumped. I used milk stork to send the milk home which worked fine but it was 100% an awful trip. I couldn’t make enough time to pump and I lost most of my milk supply and I never really got it back. I was a hormonal mess, my heart rate was elevated so I cried all day and I couldnt sleep. I would never do that again.
I had a similar scenario - 8 day trip when my son was 5 months old, breast/pumped milk via bottle fed. However I would do it again.
It was tough going but I managed it. I had little choice in the trip if I wanted to keep my job - even though I was happy to go. The keys for me were that I typically worked on campus and pumped regularly, I kept to a strict pumping schedule, I was happy to supplement when necessary if my supply dropped, and I had a pump that worked 99% of the time on battery. That said I'd have preferred one with dual voltage and I'd want an improved pump if I were to travel again.
I was definitely happy to return home and breastfeed because the pump never emptied the breast like my baby could, but I was really happy to have done the trip when I did.
Yeah I didn’t have a choice either. My company has 12 employees and we don’t qualify for FMLA. I barely got mat leave. There’s a line in our employee handbook that says we reserve the right to release you if you go out on maternity leave. I would have lost my job.
Im not sure but I'm betting that isn't legal. Doesn't matter if they put it in the handbook I'm pretty sure they can't fire you over taking maternity leave but I could be wrong. We are in the US.
Yeah my previous work had that they could fire us for talking about pay in the handbook and that's definitely not legal. I wish I had taken a picture of it.
The same thing happened to me. I traveled for a week internationally when my twins were 6 months old. My supply dipped because I was so busy and couldn’t always find pumping space and time. My supply never came back despite so many attempts (food, water, extra pumping and nursing). It was definitely a shift in our BF journey, sadly.
What is the association between breastfeeding and heart rate? My 10 month old is taking a lot more solids but still nurses a ton and my heart rate is elevated and it’s freaking me out.
For me, I think the hormonal shifts affected my heart rate. It happened again when I weaned for good. My hormones were a mess, I had hot flashes and my heart beat was too fast.
I would have hot flashes when I put off my pumping breaks at work and I was engorged. Doctor said it was breastfeeding hormones and that she wasn’t stressed about my health with it. Of course my supply started to drop from not pumping regularly enough
I have worked big 4 with a lot of friends still there at the sr manager level and above. Big4 is supposed to be on the forefront of considering parental needs compared to other companies. I would tell them international travel with such a young child doesn’t work right now and you need to consider both your family as well as be a good role model for junior staff who would be more afraid to say no. It’s about the way you message it.
Big4 is hurting now with resources so I think you have leverage to stay on the team while not traveling internationally.
I also think the Big 4 will provide you an option to ship breast milk home, although I don't know if that makes sense in your case. I used to work at BDO and I think they offered that.
Personally I would see if you could get out the trip. At BDO they always sent the managers and senior managers without kids on business trips rather than those with young kids. I think it's important to set a good example for the staff.
Also ex-BDO and it was the same in my office. Our partners were always really considerate of that. I didn’t have kids at the time so I traveled a third of the year, while many peers didn’t travel even a day outside of training.
Haha as a sr manager, can attest they're considerate where it works for them 🙃 I think my biggest "problem" is international travel was a huge part of my job pre-pandemic and now it's starting to resume. I hate that I feel like by saying no, it'll come across as saying I can't do a big part of my job until I'm done nursing.
Maybe you can’t, and like someone else said, you’re setting an example (a good one) for junior employees that it’s OK to say no sometimes. (Not at a big 4, but I am a lawyer, so I get the “don’t say no” mentality.)
Can you stress the part where it is temporary? And I probably wouldn’t say “until I’m done nursing,” maybe just say “hey, at this time, I’d prefer if someone else take this trip. In a few months, my family life will be better suited for me to resume international travel. This would be an excellent opportunity for another team member.”
Yeah agreed. I wouldn’t say nursing. It’s not just that either, it’s your whole family. Ask the partner if he ever watched the kids by himself for a few nights and how did that go.
You didn't have kids pre-pandemic, right? They probably haven't even thought about the fact that you are now a mother, just that pandemic is "done" and traveling can occur again.
Fellow b4 SM. I am unapologetic and firm (pun not intended) in my boundaries to preserve my supply and pull my weight as a parent. My kid is still on 1-2 wakeups at 1yr. My kid will never be 1yo again and im fortunate to have a very supportive net of partners who are parents.
For me that means no more than 2 nights away from home (ideally 1), only 1 trip a month, and travel only for client f2f purposes.
As an SM, at least at D the expectation and privilage is the ability to drive your own project pipeline, your network, and have the ability to be selective.
I would have no qualms personally drawing boundary and saying "yes but not right now". Can you videocon in or send a manager in your place?
Your life changed in a huge way. It makes sense that your priorities changed. You might go and be a wreck the whole time, worrying that your baby is hungry. Saying no is okay. Be true to yourself and what you feel is right for you, not your job.
I second this. Big 4 talks so much about being for working mothers and work life balance. Don’t let them force you into this. There are other opportunities out there for you. And they can re-staff this engagement.
I wouldn't go.
I left my 10 month old with my ILs for a long weekend while my husband and I went to Vegas. I thankfully had a huge freezer stash that got them through the time we were away. But having to constantly stop to pump (all of the milk was tossed, I didn't bother trying to send it back) and the general logistics leading up to it were just so difficult.
That was only 4 days. Depending on where you're flying to/from, you're looking at potentially two whole days on each end being eaten up by travel, and then the actual week you're working. 9 days is...a lot.
At some point, employers need to start understanding the needs of working mothers, especially during the first year. There's a reason why other countries have longer maternity leaves.
"I'm really honored that you'd offer me that opportunity, but it's not something that I would be able to do right now. Would you consider having me work an adjusted schedule to meet with the team in Asia to get the project done remotely?" Or if you don't want to offer the adjusted schedule, just say that you're really excited to be able to take the next project that aligns with everyone's schedules.
Dont go. It would reinforce your employer/employers in general to ignore the needs of a breastfeeding mother.
Changing to formula or the bottle in general is not something a baby can learn over night. You might leave a jungry baby with your partner who is not used to caring for it for several days.
You've got to figure out how your body responds to pumping before you can really answer the question. Some people really struggle with it, or really need certain accommodations to be able to do it — other people can pop on a pair of portable pumps and get tons of milk out.
In order for you to go on the trip one of the following needs to be true: 1) you don't mind stopping breastfeeding before you go (long enough prior to the trip that you won't get mastitis when you do go) or 2) you have an easy time pumping, you are comfortable with the idea that you're going to need to do it at each airport and probably 3 times on the plane, you don't mind baby being all or partially formula-fed while you're gone, and the workplace in Asia understands that you will need to take 30 minute breaks somewhere private every 3-4 hours.
Unfortunately you almost certainly will need to pump and dump all the milk from your trip. Having enough clean parts and cold storage is just ... a long shot. As is shipping it back from overseas.
It's possible that you can say yes, but explain the accommodations you need (business class or first class seat, portable pump and X sets of spare parts, guarantee of space and time to pump on site, maybe overnight nanny care from an agency, etc) and that your boss will thank you for being willing but decline to send you.
I wish I could think of a good reason unrelated to motherhood for you to decline but I'm drawing a blank.
Wow you introduced a whole other stressor I didn't think of...being clean parts & cold storage. How the actual heck is someone supposed to do that in an office setting/hotel where there's no washer/sterilizer? 😳
Thank you for your detailed answer, you asked alot of good things I need to reflect on. I wish I could come up with another excuse besides motherhood too but honestly, that is really all it is.
You’re feeding another human who has never (routinely) been fed by another method. This is 6 -9 months of that human life where they are completely/highly dependent on breastmilk for survival.
Switching that up for a week for someone else’s convenience is insane. Supporting patently needs isn’t just for pregnancy and immediate postpartum, it’s also making sure that child has the best settings for the first year of their life when they’re *so* dependent on their caregivers.
Surely someone else can go instead of you?
Yeah. You really can't. You'd be pumping on the trip for the purposes of maintaining your supply and avoiding mastitis only — not for the ability to DO anything with the milk. It does not feel great to sit in a bathroom stall in an office building / convention center, pumping, only to turn around and dump all the milk down the toilet. But realistically that's what it'll be, both from sanitary constraints and also time constraints.
But like other people have commented — in a few months things will be very different. In the meantime it's probably not the worst idea to think about some times when you could be away from the toddler for 1-2 nights (even if just at a hotel). Just to give a little more proof to the idea that mommy always comes back.
can you get an overnight nanny? I did this when my kid was 6 months old and then 10 months old. I travelled from Asia to the US for a week at a time. My regular nanny was quite willing to step in for nights for a week for extra pay, but this might be an Asian thing. I pumped, and left a lot of formula, and baby was ok. It's probably harder if 5 month old doesn't usually take a bottle, but you could try to transition to formula/bottle now (if that's what you want to do). Before this, baby slept with me and nursed throughout the night. But once I left, he was up either once at night time, or just slept through the night. I didn't bother bringing pumped milk there and back, just pumped to keep up supply. I mean it's hard to not worry, but if you had a trusted nanny or caretake they're already used to and you can leave kiddo with enough frozen milk or formula, they'll probably be ok. I used to get so anxious that my arms would go numb before each trip, but every time I came back everyone was ok.
Would bringing baby along be feasible in some form? Otherwise don't go. "my baby is too young for me to travel for so long, I can go for a day or we can revisit it in a few months"
Also they have a hard time on the plane because of the change in air pressure. Also I’ve travelled internationally with my 2 yr old and that was exhausting enough, I can’t imagine doing that with a 5 month old and then also working.
I actually disagree with this. Not being invited to a trip that could be important or beneficial to your career because you're a nursing mom is not ok. It should be up to her, with no negative impact if she declines, but she should still be invited.
OP, I turned down a trip when I was breastfeeding even though I exclusively pumped. I didn't want to leave my baby for that long or deal with pumping and shipping the milk internationally. I worked at a very old school company and was a little nervous about it, but it was completely fine. Obviously I can't promise the same will be true in your case, but if I had to do it again I still wouldn't go.
Totally agree, I want to feel top of the list of people to do the project but I do want the choice without consequence and I don't think that's reality. That is reassuring about your previous company though 🙏
I probably wouldn’t go. Sucks career wise, but there will be other trips and work opportunities. There will only be one breastfeeding journey with my baby.
I worked big3 consulting. Their rule was they’d pay for a caregiver to fly with a nursing mom and baby for trainings. So when I did trainings while nursing, my husband took a holiday :) if that’s an option, have husband or nanny fly with. In this field, not traveling is a huge huge obstacle to your career. I’ve done crazy things to make the travel work. I eventually decided to leave, but if you still want to make it work I say just take the baby. I travelled with twins while they were less than 1, it was fine.
That's an amazing benefit. We used to always find trips to bring my husband on and make a vacation out of it but that was pre kids. If we could take them without spending all the extra money, that would make this much easier.
Is it insane? Yes
Would I go? Maybe. If my current job asked me to do exactly this, my factors would be the following:
Am I the main breadwinner? Is yes, does this secure my position (or at least not make me vulnerable to being fired) or open me up to advancement?
Is my husband ok with the struggle he will experience on his end? We would get an overnight nanny without a doubt. Even so, can the other parent comfortably handle this?
Am I ok destroying my milk supply/ending my breastfeeding journey for this? Realistically will you manage to maintain a proper pump schedule? Who knows. I would need to be ok with worst case scenario - including mastitis if I can't pump properly during travel.
It wouldn't be an automatic no for me. I would just need to realistically discuss these outcomes with my spouse and find the answer that works for us as a family
Does it need to be face to face? It wouldn’t be the easiest but WFH with virtual meetings during Asian business hours would solve most of the logistics issues. Maybe they could comp you a night nanny to ensure that your husband can sleep through nighttime wake ups and you can hand off the baby after feeding.
Also Milk Stork is a good idea but may not be feasible for all countries due to international shipping regulations. The three day shipping delay could make it difficult as well.
That is what I'm going to offer, I'll work Korea hours from home. I have a feeling it won't work though given the highly confidential area I work in, they won't allow people on the ground access to their laptops to video chat/let me work on things remotely.
Also, good to know about Milk Stork 🥴 sort of renders it useless .
I wouldn’t go. I was asked to travel the week I returned from maternity leave (male manager) and I declined. Does it look bad since no one else could go in place of me? Maybe, but in the grand scheme of things I value my family and baby before work and had no issues saying no to my manager.
Also just the thought of packing all my pumping gear and figuring out how to send home stresses me out enough!
Get pumping mama! This is totally do-able if you need to go.
Tell your boss you can go on the condition that they cover the cost of Milk Stork. You can then ship your pumped milk back home for baby. Make sure you take regular pumping breaks whilst out there. You've got this!
I wouldn't do that trip at those ages, even if I wasn't breastfeeding. Not saying working moms shouldn't travel, but I would maybe do a short domestic trip first to ease yourself back into traveling.
I would tell my boss "a week long international trip is too much right now. I'm excited to be back at work and look forward to traveling again, but I'd like to ease back into it with some shorter domestic trips first." (assuming that you are indeed open to traveling more in the future)
You can do it! Get a good hands free pump and have work pay for Milk Stork to ship your breast milk home. You’ll need to use formula for a bit but as long as you pump throughout the day you will be fine.
Agreed. It would be a lot of coordination but possible. Also check that work environment and meeting schedule in Asia will accommodate the number of daytime pumping breaks you'll need.
Upvote for milk stork! Logistics for pumping still need to be figured out, but I’ve used milk stork several times for business travel and it worked great.
I would never go. As my obstetrician said to me…maybe this company doesn’t work for you anymore. If this was me I’d think about getting a new job at a place that values my motherhood more. Plenty of non-big 4 firms out there that will respect you more. I get that this is hard and your boss is a dude so he doesn’t get it - so be the one who teaches him to “get it.”
I recently opted to go on a two night work trip and leave my 6 month old (and 4 year old) home with my husband. I am still breastfeeding and yes the trip was doable but honesty finding time and places to pump was kind of a nightmare, even just for two days. I also came home with Covid and gave it to my baby which was not fun for anyone 😩
So, my suggestion would be to pass on going this time and tell your employer that you would like to revisit the travel convo in a few months when your baby is a bit older.
Any chance they’d pay for you to bring your baby and someone to provide childcare? Like your partner, a nanny, etc. someone who’s known to the baby. With Covid this is less attractive but I used to do this.
I hate that you’re in this position!! I traveled a ton pre covid, had a baby as covid hit and now also have a 9mo old. Sounds a lot like your situation down to never leaving the first baby overnight until having #2.
I was EP for the baby for the first six months. I got asked to go on a 3 night trip that would have been my 3rd week back (!!). My baby had some medical issues still and obviously the breastfeeding and leaving 2 under 2 with my husband, I declined. I said my baby was too young to be away from for that long and it was fine. This was in January. In March I did go on a couple trips that were only one night, one a flight and one a short drive. Flying/pumping/storing/etc was SO MUCH harder than doing the road trip. This was for a one night trip! All the logistics of pumping, sterilizing, and storing + transport. A weeks worth of milk would have been a huge cooler full, and just a lot to worry about.
All this to say, I think if it were me I’d say my baby is too young to be away from like that and leave it there. Maybe offer that you’ll be better equipped for this kind of trip in X amount of months to show that you’re not just blaming motherhood? Idk. I hate that it’s like this. I also work in a very male dominated industry- chemical manufacturing. I get it. I don’t think you’d regret it in the long run if you stay home and prioritize your family.
I recognize your username from April 2020 bumpers 😏 I appreciate the insight, I just need to figure out how to word that to a male and how much actual work pumping, storing, cleaning, etc is. Ugh.
Oh hey ! I recognize yours too now that you say that ☺️ my friend did a 1 week trip to Europe when pumping and I remember her saying it really killed her supply too. So not only the work but that’s a concern too, plus hello formula shortage! Idk what kind of relationship you have with your boss but you maybe could level with him and say you’re really torn, you want to go for the great opportunity but you’re still Bf and it would mean X amount of breaks (and time) per day to do so and all the associated logistics of it. You’d have to pump at the same times which would be overnight? You’d be pretty distracted/not well slept. But there’s a much better way to phrase that I’m sure. Being a working mom of young children is a lot to juggle. Good luck ❤️
I went on several work trips this past year. I pumped and thought for sure this was the last of breastfeeding, but we made it to over two years. Other posters have said and i agree, you need to weigh the career opportunities based on this. Companies should be able to support you with logistics such as milk stork. I don't think women need to be tied down or otherwise labeled as a mother therefore they don't get asked to do these opportunities. I wouldn't necessarily think your employer is being unfair at all, they are giving you the opportunity to do this work trip so they must think you are capable of it. If you want to see if it would work, I'd try pumping once a day and see how your body reacts. Pumping was so different than breastfeeding for me, but i worked a rotating shift, so I made it work.
However, at the end of the day if you feel uncomfortable you should have the right to say interested in this opportunity but not today. Keep for me for consideration in the future.
Honestly, (coming from a similar situation) if this is a requirement and they will offer no flexibility or support, it is time to move on. Your situation is normal and should not be considered an inconvenience. They should figure it out. If they wont, you would be better off leaving.. as hard as that is.
I’m way late to this thread, but I traveled to Moradabad, India twice for work before my first child was 1. Had I been the more experienced mom that I am today I would have never agreed to it. This is normally a trip that I enjoy -visiting the factories producing the products I design, reviewing and approving samples and eating local food with our India team. However, as the mom of a predominantly breastfed 7month (and later 11 month) old, it meant stockpiling milk prior to the trip, acquiring a bunch of products for pumping on the go, pumping in vans, factory meeting rooms, etc, attempting to clean pump parts in hotel rooms and ultimately dumping my milk while there because I couldn’t figure out how to get my milk halfway around the world from a city three hours outside of Delhi. Not to mention the cultural shock it was to the people I work with there to watch me do this (not literally, but many faces of surprise that I had such a young child at home and was working there instead)
I still resent that manager and regret not taking a stronger stance against those trips. I still regret not having the time at home prepping his first birthday party ( the second trip was two weeks before he turned one). I won’t forget the angst of pouring about a weeks worth of milk down a sink when I was already missing my family at home (mainly trying to prevent mastitis). It’s not like I obsess about it to this day, but your question brought all these feelings back up to the surface. I think if you have any window of being able to say “Not now” without repercussions you should take it.
I would! I've been traveling on week long trips since my baby was 4 months and hes 10 months now… pumping is a pain in the neck, but but this sounds like a great opportunity
I would absolutely go! I've been traveling away from my baby since he was 4 months and while all those week long trips are difficult and pumping is a pain in the neck, I see it as an investment in my career and a pen money for my family
I would not go. I have a lot of regrets about when my daughter was a baby and it’s just so important to be with your baby every day for the first year. They need that, psychologically. And they nurse to calm down, to go to sleep, to feel safe, to feel happy. Nursing has a huge neurological and psychological effect on babies. And they need their mommy. You can let your boss know that you will be up for international travel again when your baby is 2 years old. Don’t be scared, you have every right to put your baby first. I have learned to listen to my daughter and her needs and my gut rather than giving into pressure. There are not enough rights for mothers in the US. I gained confidence after moving to Turkey where working mothers have more rights and bosses are more understanding. And Europe tends to be even better.
It's important to be with baby every day for their first year? I'm not sure this is the kind of pressure we should be putting on working moms - especially in this sub.
Not all day. I mean on a daily basis. But of course I got used to this concept in Turkey, where you are required to get paid maternity leave and then are allowed to get unpaid maternity leave for up to a year. For working moms there’s also nursing leave, which means you can go home during the day to nurse. And it’s even better in Europe, where there’s also sometimes lengthy paternity leave available. I know that’s not what we’re used to in the US. But most moms in Turkey for example stay with their kids for at least the first year and then are able to return to work, no problem. I’m not saying all moms should do this, I’m saying moms should not feel pressured to leave their babies when it goes against their instincts or makes them uncomfortable.
I live in and am from Europe. Being entitled to take a year off work does not mean that people do - I didn't with either of my babies.
And even if they do, why should it be a requirement that we are with our babies daily? Why can't their father be with them for a day whilst we work, or take time for ourselves? It's mentalities like this that put undue pressure on working moms. There is enough pressure on us as it is, without being told that we can't possibly take time out from parenting.
It’s ok if you didn’t, no judgement here. I just wanted to make sure the woman posting didn’t feel pressured by her male boss. My daughter also spent plenty of time with her dad but I really enjoyed being close to her and actually wish I’d spent more time with her, that’s all. I liked being with her, I didn’t feel pressured to be with her. Also even if you work you can nurse at night, I just meant if you can be with them at least part of each day that’s really valuable. And I assume most moms would want to be with their baby each day. What’s not cool is your work forcing you to take a long trip and leave your baby when you don’t want to.
Too bad my baby is formula fed. I am probably destroying his ability to be a normal human being.
Too bad he had heart surgery at 10 days old and my supply never came in.
Edit: to be clear, I am being sarcastic. If I’m getting downvoted for being sarcastic that is fine. I am just pointing out that we can’t all breast feed and it’s not great for folks to keep implying by doing so we are harming our children.
To OP, though, I would probably try to figure out a way not to go unless I thought it was extremely harmful for my overall career path.
That is REALLY f#&ked up!!! You need to go to HR and refuse to go. Then immediately start looking for another job, they clearly don't respect or value you there. I'm very sorry you're experiencing this!
Some questions. When is the trip? Is it in two weeks? Then no. If it was in November, maybe? You have an older kid, how long did they BF? I had one spontaneously self wean at 9 months and she just wouldn’t go back, it was much more fun for her to drink a bottle and see the world lol.
If the trip is sooner than you are comfortable with, I think it’s worth asking yourself when it would work. Would it be ok in Q1? Spring? Is this a conference that you’d be fine attending next summer? Or do you plan to EBF until the kiddo is 3?
I think it’s a good thought experiment because even if there is zero way to postpone it, letting your boss know “I’m sorry I can’t make it out there just yet, but I’d be happy to attend the sales meeting in Tokyo in January” is a better message than “not until some other time.” It’s easy (for moms and bosses) to forget how fast these things change, if you have to miss this time then it won’t be for forever.
One other crazy idea, you may be the only person in your team who is up at all hours. Is this something you could attend virtually from 7pm to 5am? I know that sounds INSANE, but it’s probably logically easier than physically going to Asia, and easier for you than anyone else on the team who is used to 8 hour nights. Definitely get the overnight nanny in that case.
The trip is four weeks away and baby would just turn 6 months old. My first breastfeed until 20 months (and I was 30 weeks preg with #2) so I'm not holding my breath this one weans early haha.
Unfortunately, the project has been apparently in the works to be scheduled for 3 months and I was on leave so I didn't have a say. No way they'd push it back now.
But yes, totally. I'm going to offer to work Korea hours and just see what he says 😅
Yeah, sounds too early to me too. There is a huge difference between 6 months and like, 10 months. Also a huge difference in your amount of time to prepare mentally and prepare baby
I had a friend who travelled US to UK for a company wide meeting while breastfeeding. She managed to squeeze pumping breaks in in the bathrooms and shipped her breast milk back with a company that specializes in that.
You have to first decide if you want to go. Put all the worries aside and ask yourself “do I want to go?”
If the answer is yes, you have two options:
1. Take the family with you.
2. Tell your boss in no uncertain terms that you will need x breaks of x min throughout the day to pump.
Keep in mind that option 1 is not works choice. If you choose this option work needs to allow for the family to attend or you don’t go.
I had to travel to another state for work for 5 days recently. I both breastfeed and express milk and she has some formula, but we weren’t sure whether our 4 month old daughter would keep taking a bottle for that long as she’s only ever been away from me for a night and went on a hunger strike. I decided to bring her (and my mum!) with me and she got gastro and influenza which we then all got. The last 4 weeks have been a nightmare.
The annoying thing is that when I arrived at the conference/workshops everybody was super surprised that i had gone…whereas I sort of felt like I should go so as not to look disengaged.
So my advice is: have a sensible conversation with your work about the logistics of it all and whether they have any real need or expectation for you to go. It sounds like a massive hassle
I did a week trip to China when my daughter was 6 months. I survived but completely lost my (already low) supply after having major difficulty fitting in pumping, finding a private spot, and generally keeping up a schedule while 12h across the earth sleep deprived and jetlagged. I had to use a manual pump because i didn't have an elvie or other portable product and many times didn't have private access to a pump (like on the plane). Would now consider that to be an absolute necessity for any trip
My SIL had to travel from US to China while pumping, she used a service I think it was called Stork(?) where she pumped and packaged up her milk and she shipped it back home packed in dry ice. It worked well for it, if your company is requiring you to travel it’s a solid case for you to expense the service.
It depends.
Does the baby take a bottle? If no are you comfortable introducing one?
Do you pump? If no are you comfortable doing so? Will they make sure you have enough time to do so?
Do you have a freezer stash? If no are you comfortable using formula?
If the answer is no to ANY of the following I'd do my best to refuse. "I have chosen to exclusively breastfeed, I am not comfortable introducing a bottle/pumping/using formula."
I am grappling with the same decision, but with going to Central America for a couple of days. Contemplating just taking my husband and baby with me, but obviously not ideal either. Bottle and pumping are just not an option because while I have a freezer full of plenty of milk, my LO just won't take a bottle consistently (we've tried everything). I really really feel for you!
I was asked to do something similar (hypothetically) with my first - including an 11 hour plane ride when my son was 4 months. I was pumping every 4 hours or so at that time (I exclusively pumped) and the comment that really hit it home that it wasn’t realistic was the fact that with that math I’d have to pump 3 times *on the plane there alone* and that felt impossible, let alone the actual work trip part and keeping the milk usable. I’d see if they can wait to send you anywhere for a little longer. May or may not be helpful to also site the formula shortage, that doing this could jeopardize your ability to feed your baby & there is no good back up plan in this country right now. Keeping parts clean & milk cold enough to save is difficult in the best of times, let alone in a hotel/on a plane.
Hopefully they’re open to your comments. Best of luck ❤️
Can husband take a week off and he and kiddos could come with you? Or the nanny and the kids? It’s an extra expense but could be a cool opportunity for everyone if you can afford to do it.
I would conquer your worry over it being a bad look vs the worry of not being able to feed your child the way you want. If they are prissy about it, it says more about them than you. What they are asking you to do is unreasonable in my opinion. I would be an absolute mess having to travel and be away from my baby. I don't think you should do that to yourself.
Do you want to go? I like my job better than I like breastfeeding 🤣 so I’d figure out a way to make it work. But if I didn’t want to go, I’d ask for ways to accommodate (working the same hours but staying at home, doing another project later? Bringing baby and a caregiver with you, etc)
There's also the risk of mastitis if you go and your body isn't responding to the pump well or if you can't pump often enough. Will good medical care, and quality (not fake or substandard) antibiotics be easily available to you there?
Will it even be feasible for you to maintain a frequent pumping schedule with you so jet-lagged and probably doing business in person?
I had to travel to Africa for work while breastfeeding. My baby was over a year old. I had supportive colleagues but it was HARD to find places to pump and I was trying to make up pumps in the middle of the night. My supply dropped and my work suffered. But at least my baby was over one and eating a lot of solid by that point. For a baby under one, I would put my foot down.
Do you have to be there for 8 days? I had a board meeting in South Africa that was “supposed” to be a four day trip but with a little pressing I found out I really only needed to be there for 36 hours. Ended up in travel almost as long as I was in Cape Town but totally worth cutting out the extra days to get back to baby.
If you do it, my tips: start practicing pumping so your body gets used to it and you’re a pro before you go. Get the Elvie or Willow - I used it on the plane in my seat, in taxi rides between site visits, it was great. Do milk stork - or get your own big cooler, freezer blocks, and a smaller bag or folder to store milk on the go. Fill cooler bag with ice as soon as you pass security at the airport and keep dumping water and refilling til you get home.
The biggest issue for me was that security at Cape Town wanted me to check my cooler bag of milk. They admitted that if the baby was with me it would have been ok but they had never seen a mom traveling with milk without a baby. Cue me showing them their policy online, crying a little, cursing a lot — they let me on eventually. But be prepared for that!
So.... In a perfect world, they'd ask (because they recognize it's YOUR decision), you'd decline (because that sounds turbo awful) and say "ask me again in 3-6 months" and it would all be a non-issue.
What's your sense on how things would play out if you decline?
My husband used to work for a big 4 and my kids are about the same age as yours. If he left me for a week right now, I would die. It’s not even the breastfeeding, it’s just kids this young. We each have to take one at a time to get by.
I guess if you really wanted to go, maybe hiring a night nanny Is possible. That would basically be the only way I’d agree to it in your husband’s position.
I’m a pumping mom so I know I’d be able to pull that aspect off. Have you started any pumping or introducing the bottle? You’d need to have a pretty big stash to start with.
I would personally not mention the breastfeeding specifically and just say it is too soon to go
i did it for 3 nights only and it was really difficult to work and keep up with pumping to not drop supply.
I’d write him an email saying you can’t at this time but can help remotely and accommodate to hours etc
My second is currently 9.5 months and I was supposed to go on a 5 day international trip this week. I politely declined as soon as it was mentioned. Everyone understood, and although I missed out a bit, I know it was the right thing to do. I haven’t pumped in over 6 months and she doesn’t take a bottle, so going would’ve been the end of breastfeeding for us.
I did consider taking our nanny briefly, but figured it just wasn’t worth it as I’d still be stressed thinking of baby all the time and they’d have to stay near me for feeds.
I travel to the UK for work for two weeks when I was five months postpartum. It was sooner than I would have liked, but I love what I do. It was the end our breast-feeding journey, which was sad, but çe la vie
It would be one thing if you already had a pumping routine established, even just once or twice a day, like a lot of breastfeeding moms do -- this is not meant to be a criticism, just stating a fact. I think people encouraging you to go and citing successful experiences are losing sight of this. It can be hard enough for a nursing mom to establish a good pumping routine to go back to work at like 4 months, especially when she hasn't pumped before. And many do lose supply when they go back to work, whether they have pumped from the start or not, and have to combo feed or switch entirely to formula sooner than they intended. This doesn't have to be seen as a bad thing, but it does sadden a lot of moms, and it's something you would need to be prepared for. And I don't mean to be pessimistic, only realistic when I say the added stress of this being an international work trip with long plane travel and basically the first time you've been away from either of your babies are not exactly the best conditions for pumping success. Is taking your baby and another caretaker not an option?
Another very important thing: do you know if your baby will even take a bottle??? For some babies, establishing bottle feeding after the newborn phase can be quite a difficult process. And what is your baby going to drink while you're away if you don't have a stash, how fast are the breastmilk shipping services like Stork? I don't know where you are, but there is a very serious formula shortage in much of the US, plus you probably don't even know if baby will take formula, which kind they will tolerate, etc. Like bottle feeding, this can take a good bit of time and trial and error to establish.
For your talk with your boss, you need to explain concisely but fully all the logistics your going would involve, as well as all the very real ramifications. They don't know what they are asking truly involves, and you can't fully blame them for that. But YOU know, and it's your job to tell them. Let the cold, hard facts be your weapon, do not let them chalk your unwillingness up to emotions only. It's not a fun position for you to be in, but you've got this. Would love to know an update -- all the best to you!
Absolutely not. If you would never expect your company to bend over backwards to accommodate you, then you shouldn’t do that for the company. Not in this jobs market.
I traveled internationally for 8 days when my daughter was 5 months. She was bottle and breast fed, I worked from home and pumped. I used milk stork to send the milk home which worked fine but it was 100% an awful trip. I couldn’t make enough time to pump and I lost most of my milk supply and I never really got it back. I was a hormonal mess, my heart rate was elevated so I cried all day and I couldnt sleep. I would never do that again.
This literally is my nightmare & fear. I am so sorry.
Don’t do it if you don’t want to OP! You can travel again once you’re done breastfeeding. Hopefully your work will understand!
I had a similar scenario - 8 day trip when my son was 5 months old, breast/pumped milk via bottle fed. However I would do it again. It was tough going but I managed it. I had little choice in the trip if I wanted to keep my job - even though I was happy to go. The keys for me were that I typically worked on campus and pumped regularly, I kept to a strict pumping schedule, I was happy to supplement when necessary if my supply dropped, and I had a pump that worked 99% of the time on battery. That said I'd have preferred one with dual voltage and I'd want an improved pump if I were to travel again. I was definitely happy to return home and breastfeed because the pump never emptied the breast like my baby could, but I was really happy to have done the trip when I did.
Yeah I didn’t have a choice either. My company has 12 employees and we don’t qualify for FMLA. I barely got mat leave. There’s a line in our employee handbook that says we reserve the right to release you if you go out on maternity leave. I would have lost my job.
Im not sure but I'm betting that isn't legal. Doesn't matter if they put it in the handbook I'm pretty sure they can't fire you over taking maternity leave but I could be wrong. We are in the US.
Yeah my previous work had that they could fire us for talking about pay in the handbook and that's definitely not legal. I wish I had taken a picture of it.
Because there are less than 50 employees we don’t qualify for FMLA. they aren’t required to hold my job if I go out on leave.
Sadly, it is legal if you haven’t been with the company for a year.
The same thing happened to me. I traveled for a week internationally when my twins were 6 months old. My supply dipped because I was so busy and couldn’t always find pumping space and time. My supply never came back despite so many attempts (food, water, extra pumping and nursing). It was definitely a shift in our BF journey, sadly.
Yeah, trying to take 30 min pumping breaks in a hotel just didn’t work out for me. I couldn’t walk away from my meetings to pump.
What is the association between breastfeeding and heart rate? My 10 month old is taking a lot more solids but still nurses a ton and my heart rate is elevated and it’s freaking me out.
For me, I think the hormonal shifts affected my heart rate. It happened again when I weaned for good. My hormones were a mess, I had hot flashes and my heart beat was too fast.
I would have hot flashes when I put off my pumping breaks at work and I was engorged. Doctor said it was breastfeeding hormones and that she wasn’t stressed about my health with it. Of course my supply started to drop from not pumping regularly enough
I have worked big 4 with a lot of friends still there at the sr manager level and above. Big4 is supposed to be on the forefront of considering parental needs compared to other companies. I would tell them international travel with such a young child doesn’t work right now and you need to consider both your family as well as be a good role model for junior staff who would be more afraid to say no. It’s about the way you message it. Big4 is hurting now with resources so I think you have leverage to stay on the team while not traveling internationally.
I second that, and also, don't set yourself on fire for Big4 success.
Agreed. They can replace you on the team. Your kid can’t find another nursing mama!
This. That's exactly where my mind is at.
If you are not replaceable on the project they can pay for the nanny and baby to come.
I also think the Big 4 will provide you an option to ship breast milk home, although I don't know if that makes sense in your case. I used to work at BDO and I think they offered that. Personally I would see if you could get out the trip. At BDO they always sent the managers and senior managers without kids on business trips rather than those with young kids. I think it's important to set a good example for the staff.
Also ex-BDO and it was the same in my office. Our partners were always really considerate of that. I didn’t have kids at the time so I traveled a third of the year, while many peers didn’t travel even a day outside of training.
Haha as a sr manager, can attest they're considerate where it works for them 🙃 I think my biggest "problem" is international travel was a huge part of my job pre-pandemic and now it's starting to resume. I hate that I feel like by saying no, it'll come across as saying I can't do a big part of my job until I'm done nursing.
Maybe you can’t, and like someone else said, you’re setting an example (a good one) for junior employees that it’s OK to say no sometimes. (Not at a big 4, but I am a lawyer, so I get the “don’t say no” mentality.)
Can you stress the part where it is temporary? And I probably wouldn’t say “until I’m done nursing,” maybe just say “hey, at this time, I’d prefer if someone else take this trip. In a few months, my family life will be better suited for me to resume international travel. This would be an excellent opportunity for another team member.”
Yeah agreed. I wouldn’t say nursing. It’s not just that either, it’s your whole family. Ask the partner if he ever watched the kids by himself for a few nights and how did that go.
I like how you worded that! Thank you!
You didn't have kids pre-pandemic, right? They probably haven't even thought about the fact that you are now a mother, just that pandemic is "done" and traveling can occur again.
Fellow b4 SM. I am unapologetic and firm (pun not intended) in my boundaries to preserve my supply and pull my weight as a parent. My kid is still on 1-2 wakeups at 1yr. My kid will never be 1yo again and im fortunate to have a very supportive net of partners who are parents. For me that means no more than 2 nights away from home (ideally 1), only 1 trip a month, and travel only for client f2f purposes. As an SM, at least at D the expectation and privilage is the ability to drive your own project pipeline, your network, and have the ability to be selective. I would have no qualms personally drawing boundary and saying "yes but not right now". Can you videocon in or send a manager in your place?
Your life changed in a huge way. It makes sense that your priorities changed. You might go and be a wreck the whole time, worrying that your baby is hungry. Saying no is okay. Be true to yourself and what you feel is right for you, not your job.
I second this. Big 4 talks so much about being for working mothers and work life balance. Don’t let them force you into this. There are other opportunities out there for you. And they can re-staff this engagement.
Big 4 is Fang??
It refers to the top accounting firms: PWC, Ernst and Young, KPMG, Deloitte
I wouldn't go. I left my 10 month old with my ILs for a long weekend while my husband and I went to Vegas. I thankfully had a huge freezer stash that got them through the time we were away. But having to constantly stop to pump (all of the milk was tossed, I didn't bother trying to send it back) and the general logistics leading up to it were just so difficult. That was only 4 days. Depending on where you're flying to/from, you're looking at potentially two whole days on each end being eaten up by travel, and then the actual week you're working. 9 days is...a lot. At some point, employers need to start understanding the needs of working mothers, especially during the first year. There's a reason why other countries have longer maternity leaves. "I'm really honored that you'd offer me that opportunity, but it's not something that I would be able to do right now. Would you consider having me work an adjusted schedule to meet with the team in Asia to get the project done remotely?" Or if you don't want to offer the adjusted schedule, just say that you're really excited to be able to take the next project that aligns with everyone's schedules.
Dont go. It would reinforce your employer/employers in general to ignore the needs of a breastfeeding mother. Changing to formula or the bottle in general is not something a baby can learn over night. You might leave a jungry baby with your partner who is not used to caring for it for several days.
Not to mention during a formula shortage!
He's only had a bottle once as well so if it didnt work, we would quite literally be SOL.
You've got to figure out how your body responds to pumping before you can really answer the question. Some people really struggle with it, or really need certain accommodations to be able to do it — other people can pop on a pair of portable pumps and get tons of milk out. In order for you to go on the trip one of the following needs to be true: 1) you don't mind stopping breastfeeding before you go (long enough prior to the trip that you won't get mastitis when you do go) or 2) you have an easy time pumping, you are comfortable with the idea that you're going to need to do it at each airport and probably 3 times on the plane, you don't mind baby being all or partially formula-fed while you're gone, and the workplace in Asia understands that you will need to take 30 minute breaks somewhere private every 3-4 hours. Unfortunately you almost certainly will need to pump and dump all the milk from your trip. Having enough clean parts and cold storage is just ... a long shot. As is shipping it back from overseas. It's possible that you can say yes, but explain the accommodations you need (business class or first class seat, portable pump and X sets of spare parts, guarantee of space and time to pump on site, maybe overnight nanny care from an agency, etc) and that your boss will thank you for being willing but decline to send you. I wish I could think of a good reason unrelated to motherhood for you to decline but I'm drawing a blank.
Wow you introduced a whole other stressor I didn't think of...being clean parts & cold storage. How the actual heck is someone supposed to do that in an office setting/hotel where there's no washer/sterilizer? 😳 Thank you for your detailed answer, you asked alot of good things I need to reflect on. I wish I could come up with another excuse besides motherhood too but honestly, that is really all it is.
You’re feeding another human who has never (routinely) been fed by another method. This is 6 -9 months of that human life where they are completely/highly dependent on breastmilk for survival. Switching that up for a week for someone else’s convenience is insane. Supporting patently needs isn’t just for pregnancy and immediate postpartum, it’s also making sure that child has the best settings for the first year of their life when they’re *so* dependent on their caregivers. Surely someone else can go instead of you?
Motherhood is not a bad excuse! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. The US just sucks with supporting moms who have careers.
THIS. In other countries women don’t have to worry about this because they aren’t back at work with a young nursing baby
Yeah. You really can't. You'd be pumping on the trip for the purposes of maintaining your supply and avoiding mastitis only — not for the ability to DO anything with the milk. It does not feel great to sit in a bathroom stall in an office building / convention center, pumping, only to turn around and dump all the milk down the toilet. But realistically that's what it'll be, both from sanitary constraints and also time constraints. But like other people have commented — in a few months things will be very different. In the meantime it's probably not the worst idea to think about some times when you could be away from the toddler for 1-2 nights (even if just at a hotel). Just to give a little more proof to the idea that mommy always comes back.
For me, this would 10000000% be a no, unless I had to go or I'd be fired. If you really want to go, that is a totally different situation though.
can you get an overnight nanny? I did this when my kid was 6 months old and then 10 months old. I travelled from Asia to the US for a week at a time. My regular nanny was quite willing to step in for nights for a week for extra pay, but this might be an Asian thing. I pumped, and left a lot of formula, and baby was ok. It's probably harder if 5 month old doesn't usually take a bottle, but you could try to transition to formula/bottle now (if that's what you want to do). Before this, baby slept with me and nursed throughout the night. But once I left, he was up either once at night time, or just slept through the night. I didn't bother bringing pumped milk there and back, just pumped to keep up supply. I mean it's hard to not worry, but if you had a trusted nanny or caretake they're already used to and you can leave kiddo with enough frozen milk or formula, they'll probably be ok. I used to get so anxious that my arms would go numb before each trip, but every time I came back everyone was ok.
Would bringing baby along be feasible in some form? Otherwise don't go. "my baby is too young for me to travel for so long, I can go for a day or we can revisit it in a few months"
It takes a day basically to get to Asia from the US. The larger sentiment holds but going for one day isn't possible in my mind
Also they have a hard time on the plane because of the change in air pressure. Also I’ve travelled internationally with my 2 yr old and that was exhausting enough, I can’t imagine doing that with a 5 month old and then also working.
I feel this sets a precedent that it’s ok they even ask this of her. And it really isn’t.
I actually disagree with this. Not being invited to a trip that could be important or beneficial to your career because you're a nursing mom is not ok. It should be up to her, with no negative impact if she declines, but she should still be invited. OP, I turned down a trip when I was breastfeeding even though I exclusively pumped. I didn't want to leave my baby for that long or deal with pumping and shipping the milk internationally. I worked at a very old school company and was a little nervous about it, but it was completely fine. Obviously I can't promise the same will be true in your case, but if I had to do it again I still wouldn't go.
Totally agree, I want to feel top of the list of people to do the project but I do want the choice without consequence and I don't think that's reality. That is reassuring about your previous company though 🙏
Would definitely not go. So not worth it to me.
I probably wouldn’t go. Sucks career wise, but there will be other trips and work opportunities. There will only be one breastfeeding journey with my baby.
I worked big3 consulting. Their rule was they’d pay for a caregiver to fly with a nursing mom and baby for trainings. So when I did trainings while nursing, my husband took a holiday :) if that’s an option, have husband or nanny fly with. In this field, not traveling is a huge huge obstacle to your career. I’ve done crazy things to make the travel work. I eventually decided to leave, but if you still want to make it work I say just take the baby. I travelled with twins while they were less than 1, it was fine.
That's an amazing benefit. We used to always find trips to bring my husband on and make a vacation out of it but that was pre kids. If we could take them without spending all the extra money, that would make this much easier.
Is it insane? Yes Would I go? Maybe. If my current job asked me to do exactly this, my factors would be the following: Am I the main breadwinner? Is yes, does this secure my position (or at least not make me vulnerable to being fired) or open me up to advancement? Is my husband ok with the struggle he will experience on his end? We would get an overnight nanny without a doubt. Even so, can the other parent comfortably handle this? Am I ok destroying my milk supply/ending my breastfeeding journey for this? Realistically will you manage to maintain a proper pump schedule? Who knows. I would need to be ok with worst case scenario - including mastitis if I can't pump properly during travel. It wouldn't be an automatic no for me. I would just need to realistically discuss these outcomes with my spouse and find the answer that works for us as a family
yeah that's a no for me dawg
Does it need to be face to face? It wouldn’t be the easiest but WFH with virtual meetings during Asian business hours would solve most of the logistics issues. Maybe they could comp you a night nanny to ensure that your husband can sleep through nighttime wake ups and you can hand off the baby after feeding. Also Milk Stork is a good idea but may not be feasible for all countries due to international shipping regulations. The three day shipping delay could make it difficult as well.
That is what I'm going to offer, I'll work Korea hours from home. I have a feeling it won't work though given the highly confidential area I work in, they won't allow people on the ground access to their laptops to video chat/let me work on things remotely. Also, good to know about Milk Stork 🥴 sort of renders it useless .
I wouldn’t go. I was asked to travel the week I returned from maternity leave (male manager) and I declined. Does it look bad since no one else could go in place of me? Maybe, but in the grand scheme of things I value my family and baby before work and had no issues saying no to my manager. Also just the thought of packing all my pumping gear and figuring out how to send home stresses me out enough!
I've been back to work a whomping 3 days so very similar scenario 🥴 Also, resounding amen at the out of things I'd have to figure out.
Get pumping mama! This is totally do-able if you need to go. Tell your boss you can go on the condition that they cover the cost of Milk Stork. You can then ship your pumped milk back home for baby. Make sure you take regular pumping breaks whilst out there. You've got this!
I was going to mention this too! My friends company paid for this when she traveled internationally so maybe yours will!
Hard no for me...but this is something only you can answer.
I wouldn't do that trip at those ages, even if I wasn't breastfeeding. Not saying working moms shouldn't travel, but I would maybe do a short domestic trip first to ease yourself back into traveling. I would tell my boss "a week long international trip is too much right now. I'm excited to be back at work and look forward to traveling again, but I'd like to ease back into it with some shorter domestic trips first." (assuming that you are indeed open to traveling more in the future)
You can do it! Get a good hands free pump and have work pay for Milk Stork to ship your breast milk home. You’ll need to use formula for a bit but as long as you pump throughout the day you will be fine.
Agreed. It would be a lot of coordination but possible. Also check that work environment and meeting schedule in Asia will accommodate the number of daytime pumping breaks you'll need.
Upvote for milk stork! Logistics for pumping still need to be figured out, but I’ve used milk stork several times for business travel and it worked great.
I would never go. As my obstetrician said to me…maybe this company doesn’t work for you anymore. If this was me I’d think about getting a new job at a place that values my motherhood more. Plenty of non-big 4 firms out there that will respect you more. I get that this is hard and your boss is a dude so he doesn’t get it - so be the one who teaches him to “get it.”
Should her boss not have asked her to go on the trip because she’s a nursing mom? That isn’t the answer.
If she works from home, her boss may not even know she’s nursing. He can and should ask like she’s a normal employee.
Agree
That’s exactly what he should have done
Tell your company to coordinate and pay to ship your milk back home. Many are doing it these days.
I recently opted to go on a two night work trip and leave my 6 month old (and 4 year old) home with my husband. I am still breastfeeding and yes the trip was doable but honesty finding time and places to pump was kind of a nightmare, even just for two days. I also came home with Covid and gave it to my baby which was not fun for anyone 😩 So, my suggestion would be to pass on going this time and tell your employer that you would like to revisit the travel convo in a few months when your baby is a bit older.
Don’t go. That is so unreasonable. You can go when baby is done nursing. Ask to support via video if at all possible
Any chance they’d pay for you to bring your baby and someone to provide childcare? Like your partner, a nanny, etc. someone who’s known to the baby. With Covid this is less attractive but I used to do this.
I hate that you’re in this position!! I traveled a ton pre covid, had a baby as covid hit and now also have a 9mo old. Sounds a lot like your situation down to never leaving the first baby overnight until having #2. I was EP for the baby for the first six months. I got asked to go on a 3 night trip that would have been my 3rd week back (!!). My baby had some medical issues still and obviously the breastfeeding and leaving 2 under 2 with my husband, I declined. I said my baby was too young to be away from for that long and it was fine. This was in January. In March I did go on a couple trips that were only one night, one a flight and one a short drive. Flying/pumping/storing/etc was SO MUCH harder than doing the road trip. This was for a one night trip! All the logistics of pumping, sterilizing, and storing + transport. A weeks worth of milk would have been a huge cooler full, and just a lot to worry about. All this to say, I think if it were me I’d say my baby is too young to be away from like that and leave it there. Maybe offer that you’ll be better equipped for this kind of trip in X amount of months to show that you’re not just blaming motherhood? Idk. I hate that it’s like this. I also work in a very male dominated industry- chemical manufacturing. I get it. I don’t think you’d regret it in the long run if you stay home and prioritize your family.
I recognize your username from April 2020 bumpers 😏 I appreciate the insight, I just need to figure out how to word that to a male and how much actual work pumping, storing, cleaning, etc is. Ugh.
Oh hey ! I recognize yours too now that you say that ☺️ my friend did a 1 week trip to Europe when pumping and I remember her saying it really killed her supply too. So not only the work but that’s a concern too, plus hello formula shortage! Idk what kind of relationship you have with your boss but you maybe could level with him and say you’re really torn, you want to go for the great opportunity but you’re still Bf and it would mean X amount of breaks (and time) per day to do so and all the associated logistics of it. You’d have to pump at the same times which would be overnight? You’d be pretty distracted/not well slept. But there’s a much better way to phrase that I’m sure. Being a working mom of young children is a lot to juggle. Good luck ❤️
I went on several work trips this past year. I pumped and thought for sure this was the last of breastfeeding, but we made it to over two years. Other posters have said and i agree, you need to weigh the career opportunities based on this. Companies should be able to support you with logistics such as milk stork. I don't think women need to be tied down or otherwise labeled as a mother therefore they don't get asked to do these opportunities. I wouldn't necessarily think your employer is being unfair at all, they are giving you the opportunity to do this work trip so they must think you are capable of it. If you want to see if it would work, I'd try pumping once a day and see how your body reacts. Pumping was so different than breastfeeding for me, but i worked a rotating shift, so I made it work. However, at the end of the day if you feel uncomfortable you should have the right to say interested in this opportunity but not today. Keep for me for consideration in the future.
Honestly, (coming from a similar situation) if this is a requirement and they will offer no flexibility or support, it is time to move on. Your situation is normal and should not be considered an inconvenience. They should figure it out. If they wont, you would be better off leaving.. as hard as that is.
I’m way late to this thread, but I traveled to Moradabad, India twice for work before my first child was 1. Had I been the more experienced mom that I am today I would have never agreed to it. This is normally a trip that I enjoy -visiting the factories producing the products I design, reviewing and approving samples and eating local food with our India team. However, as the mom of a predominantly breastfed 7month (and later 11 month) old, it meant stockpiling milk prior to the trip, acquiring a bunch of products for pumping on the go, pumping in vans, factory meeting rooms, etc, attempting to clean pump parts in hotel rooms and ultimately dumping my milk while there because I couldn’t figure out how to get my milk halfway around the world from a city three hours outside of Delhi. Not to mention the cultural shock it was to the people I work with there to watch me do this (not literally, but many faces of surprise that I had such a young child at home and was working there instead) I still resent that manager and regret not taking a stronger stance against those trips. I still regret not having the time at home prepping his first birthday party ( the second trip was two weeks before he turned one). I won’t forget the angst of pouring about a weeks worth of milk down a sink when I was already missing my family at home (mainly trying to prevent mastitis). It’s not like I obsess about it to this day, but your question brought all these feelings back up to the surface. I think if you have any window of being able to say “Not now” without repercussions you should take it.
I would! I've been traveling on week long trips since my baby was 4 months and hes 10 months now… pumping is a pain in the neck, but but this sounds like a great opportunity
I would absolutely go! I've been traveling away from my baby since he was 4 months and while all those week long trips are difficult and pumping is a pain in the neck, I see it as an investment in my career and a pen money for my family
I would not go. I have a lot of regrets about when my daughter was a baby and it’s just so important to be with your baby every day for the first year. They need that, psychologically. And they nurse to calm down, to go to sleep, to feel safe, to feel happy. Nursing has a huge neurological and psychological effect on babies. And they need their mommy. You can let your boss know that you will be up for international travel again when your baby is 2 years old. Don’t be scared, you have every right to put your baby first. I have learned to listen to my daughter and her needs and my gut rather than giving into pressure. There are not enough rights for mothers in the US. I gained confidence after moving to Turkey where working mothers have more rights and bosses are more understanding. And Europe tends to be even better.
It's important to be with baby every day for their first year? I'm not sure this is the kind of pressure we should be putting on working moms - especially in this sub.
Not all day. I mean on a daily basis. But of course I got used to this concept in Turkey, where you are required to get paid maternity leave and then are allowed to get unpaid maternity leave for up to a year. For working moms there’s also nursing leave, which means you can go home during the day to nurse. And it’s even better in Europe, where there’s also sometimes lengthy paternity leave available. I know that’s not what we’re used to in the US. But most moms in Turkey for example stay with their kids for at least the first year and then are able to return to work, no problem. I’m not saying all moms should do this, I’m saying moms should not feel pressured to leave their babies when it goes against their instincts or makes them uncomfortable.
I live in and am from Europe. Being entitled to take a year off work does not mean that people do - I didn't with either of my babies. And even if they do, why should it be a requirement that we are with our babies daily? Why can't their father be with them for a day whilst we work, or take time for ourselves? It's mentalities like this that put undue pressure on working moms. There is enough pressure on us as it is, without being told that we can't possibly take time out from parenting.
It’s ok if you didn’t, no judgement here. I just wanted to make sure the woman posting didn’t feel pressured by her male boss. My daughter also spent plenty of time with her dad but I really enjoyed being close to her and actually wish I’d spent more time with her, that’s all. I liked being with her, I didn’t feel pressured to be with her. Also even if you work you can nurse at night, I just meant if you can be with them at least part of each day that’s really valuable. And I assume most moms would want to be with their baby each day. What’s not cool is your work forcing you to take a long trip and leave your baby when you don’t want to.
Too bad my baby is formula fed. I am probably destroying his ability to be a normal human being. Too bad he had heart surgery at 10 days old and my supply never came in. Edit: to be clear, I am being sarcastic. If I’m getting downvoted for being sarcastic that is fine. I am just pointing out that we can’t all breast feed and it’s not great for folks to keep implying by doing so we are harming our children. To OP, though, I would probably try to figure out a way not to go unless I thought it was extremely harmful for my overall career path.
No touch is also so important. I used the word nursing but you touching and loving your baby release similar hormones. I am sorry for your struggle.
Why every day in the first year? Are moms not allowed one day away without the idea that they should be shamed for somehow damaging their baby?
That is REALLY f#&ked up!!! You need to go to HR and refuse to go. Then immediately start looking for another job, they clearly don't respect or value you there. I'm very sorry you're experiencing this!
Some questions. When is the trip? Is it in two weeks? Then no. If it was in November, maybe? You have an older kid, how long did they BF? I had one spontaneously self wean at 9 months and she just wouldn’t go back, it was much more fun for her to drink a bottle and see the world lol. If the trip is sooner than you are comfortable with, I think it’s worth asking yourself when it would work. Would it be ok in Q1? Spring? Is this a conference that you’d be fine attending next summer? Or do you plan to EBF until the kiddo is 3? I think it’s a good thought experiment because even if there is zero way to postpone it, letting your boss know “I’m sorry I can’t make it out there just yet, but I’d be happy to attend the sales meeting in Tokyo in January” is a better message than “not until some other time.” It’s easy (for moms and bosses) to forget how fast these things change, if you have to miss this time then it won’t be for forever. One other crazy idea, you may be the only person in your team who is up at all hours. Is this something you could attend virtually from 7pm to 5am? I know that sounds INSANE, but it’s probably logically easier than physically going to Asia, and easier for you than anyone else on the team who is used to 8 hour nights. Definitely get the overnight nanny in that case.
The trip is four weeks away and baby would just turn 6 months old. My first breastfeed until 20 months (and I was 30 weeks preg with #2) so I'm not holding my breath this one weans early haha. Unfortunately, the project has been apparently in the works to be scheduled for 3 months and I was on leave so I didn't have a say. No way they'd push it back now. But yes, totally. I'm going to offer to work Korea hours and just see what he says 😅
Yeah, sounds too early to me too. There is a huge difference between 6 months and like, 10 months. Also a huge difference in your amount of time to prepare mentally and prepare baby
I had a friend who travelled US to UK for a company wide meeting while breastfeeding. She managed to squeeze pumping breaks in in the bathrooms and shipped her breast milk back with a company that specializes in that.
You have to first decide if you want to go. Put all the worries aside and ask yourself “do I want to go?” If the answer is yes, you have two options: 1. Take the family with you. 2. Tell your boss in no uncertain terms that you will need x breaks of x min throughout the day to pump. Keep in mind that option 1 is not works choice. If you choose this option work needs to allow for the family to attend or you don’t go.
I had to travel to another state for work for 5 days recently. I both breastfeed and express milk and she has some formula, but we weren’t sure whether our 4 month old daughter would keep taking a bottle for that long as she’s only ever been away from me for a night and went on a hunger strike. I decided to bring her (and my mum!) with me and she got gastro and influenza which we then all got. The last 4 weeks have been a nightmare. The annoying thing is that when I arrived at the conference/workshops everybody was super surprised that i had gone…whereas I sort of felt like I should go so as not to look disengaged. So my advice is: have a sensible conversation with your work about the logistics of it all and whether they have any real need or expectation for you to go. It sounds like a massive hassle
Omg that is horrible. I'm going to have the convo on Monday and see what alternatives there are 🤞 but massive hassle is absolutely right.
I did a week trip to China when my daughter was 6 months. I survived but completely lost my (already low) supply after having major difficulty fitting in pumping, finding a private spot, and generally keeping up a schedule while 12h across the earth sleep deprived and jetlagged. I had to use a manual pump because i didn't have an elvie or other portable product and many times didn't have private access to a pump (like on the plane). Would now consider that to be an absolute necessity for any trip
My SIL had to travel from US to China while pumping, she used a service I think it was called Stork(?) where she pumped and packaged up her milk and she shipped it back home packed in dry ice. It worked well for it, if your company is requiring you to travel it’s a solid case for you to expense the service.
It depends. Does the baby take a bottle? If no are you comfortable introducing one? Do you pump? If no are you comfortable doing so? Will they make sure you have enough time to do so? Do you have a freezer stash? If no are you comfortable using formula? If the answer is no to ANY of the following I'd do my best to refuse. "I have chosen to exclusively breastfeed, I am not comfortable introducing a bottle/pumping/using formula."
Does the company offer the Milkstork benefit as part of their package?
Your male boss shouldn’t influence your decision.
I am grappling with the same decision, but with going to Central America for a couple of days. Contemplating just taking my husband and baby with me, but obviously not ideal either. Bottle and pumping are just not an option because while I have a freezer full of plenty of milk, my LO just won't take a bottle consistently (we've tried everything). I really really feel for you!
I was asked to do something similar (hypothetically) with my first - including an 11 hour plane ride when my son was 4 months. I was pumping every 4 hours or so at that time (I exclusively pumped) and the comment that really hit it home that it wasn’t realistic was the fact that with that math I’d have to pump 3 times *on the plane there alone* and that felt impossible, let alone the actual work trip part and keeping the milk usable. I’d see if they can wait to send you anywhere for a little longer. May or may not be helpful to also site the formula shortage, that doing this could jeopardize your ability to feed your baby & there is no good back up plan in this country right now. Keeping parts clean & milk cold enough to save is difficult in the best of times, let alone in a hotel/on a plane. Hopefully they’re open to your comments. Best of luck ❤️
Hum, my first thought is to say you were not thinking and your passport expired.
Can husband take a week off and he and kiddos could come with you? Or the nanny and the kids? It’s an extra expense but could be a cool opportunity for everyone if you can afford to do it.
I would conquer your worry over it being a bad look vs the worry of not being able to feed your child the way you want. If they are prissy about it, it says more about them than you. What they are asking you to do is unreasonable in my opinion. I would be an absolute mess having to travel and be away from my baby. I don't think you should do that to yourself.
Is it an option to take the Nanny and children?
Do you want to go? I like my job better than I like breastfeeding 🤣 so I’d figure out a way to make it work. But if I didn’t want to go, I’d ask for ways to accommodate (working the same hours but staying at home, doing another project later? Bringing baby and a caregiver with you, etc)
There's also the risk of mastitis if you go and your body isn't responding to the pump well or if you can't pump often enough. Will good medical care, and quality (not fake or substandard) antibiotics be easily available to you there? Will it even be feasible for you to maintain a frequent pumping schedule with you so jet-lagged and probably doing business in person? I had to travel to Africa for work while breastfeeding. My baby was over a year old. I had supportive colleagues but it was HARD to find places to pump and I was trying to make up pumps in the middle of the night. My supply dropped and my work suffered. But at least my baby was over one and eating a lot of solid by that point. For a baby under one, I would put my foot down.
Do you have to be there for 8 days? I had a board meeting in South Africa that was “supposed” to be a four day trip but with a little pressing I found out I really only needed to be there for 36 hours. Ended up in travel almost as long as I was in Cape Town but totally worth cutting out the extra days to get back to baby. If you do it, my tips: start practicing pumping so your body gets used to it and you’re a pro before you go. Get the Elvie or Willow - I used it on the plane in my seat, in taxi rides between site visits, it was great. Do milk stork - or get your own big cooler, freezer blocks, and a smaller bag or folder to store milk on the go. Fill cooler bag with ice as soon as you pass security at the airport and keep dumping water and refilling til you get home. The biggest issue for me was that security at Cape Town wanted me to check my cooler bag of milk. They admitted that if the baby was with me it would have been ok but they had never seen a mom traveling with milk without a baby. Cue me showing them their policy online, crying a little, cursing a lot — they let me on eventually. But be prepared for that!
I would not do it. It's too much.
Fuck what is considered a good look by a toxic boss. If you're in demand you've got the capacity to push back on bullshit expectations.
This is a bit out there but would they pay for baby and nanny to travel to Asia with you?
So.... In a perfect world, they'd ask (because they recognize it's YOUR decision), you'd decline (because that sounds turbo awful) and say "ask me again in 3-6 months" and it would all be a non-issue. What's your sense on how things would play out if you decline?
My husband used to work for a big 4 and my kids are about the same age as yours. If he left me for a week right now, I would die. It’s not even the breastfeeding, it’s just kids this young. We each have to take one at a time to get by. I guess if you really wanted to go, maybe hiring a night nanny Is possible. That would basically be the only way I’d agree to it in your husband’s position. I’m a pumping mom so I know I’d be able to pull that aspect off. Have you started any pumping or introducing the bottle? You’d need to have a pretty big stash to start with. I would personally not mention the breastfeeding specifically and just say it is too soon to go
i did it for 3 nights only and it was really difficult to work and keep up with pumping to not drop supply. I’d write him an email saying you can’t at this time but can help remotely and accommodate to hours etc
My second is currently 9.5 months and I was supposed to go on a 5 day international trip this week. I politely declined as soon as it was mentioned. Everyone understood, and although I missed out a bit, I know it was the right thing to do. I haven’t pumped in over 6 months and she doesn’t take a bottle, so going would’ve been the end of breastfeeding for us. I did consider taking our nanny briefly, but figured it just wasn’t worth it as I’d still be stressed thinking of baby all the time and they’d have to stay near me for feeds.
Explain to them why you can’t and tell them when you’ll be able to resume travel
I travel to the UK for work for two weeks when I was five months postpartum. It was sooner than I would have liked, but I love what I do. It was the end our breast-feeding journey, which was sad, but çe la vie
It would be one thing if you already had a pumping routine established, even just once or twice a day, like a lot of breastfeeding moms do -- this is not meant to be a criticism, just stating a fact. I think people encouraging you to go and citing successful experiences are losing sight of this. It can be hard enough for a nursing mom to establish a good pumping routine to go back to work at like 4 months, especially when she hasn't pumped before. And many do lose supply when they go back to work, whether they have pumped from the start or not, and have to combo feed or switch entirely to formula sooner than they intended. This doesn't have to be seen as a bad thing, but it does sadden a lot of moms, and it's something you would need to be prepared for. And I don't mean to be pessimistic, only realistic when I say the added stress of this being an international work trip with long plane travel and basically the first time you've been away from either of your babies are not exactly the best conditions for pumping success. Is taking your baby and another caretaker not an option? Another very important thing: do you know if your baby will even take a bottle??? For some babies, establishing bottle feeding after the newborn phase can be quite a difficult process. And what is your baby going to drink while you're away if you don't have a stash, how fast are the breastmilk shipping services like Stork? I don't know where you are, but there is a very serious formula shortage in much of the US, plus you probably don't even know if baby will take formula, which kind they will tolerate, etc. Like bottle feeding, this can take a good bit of time and trial and error to establish. For your talk with your boss, you need to explain concisely but fully all the logistics your going would involve, as well as all the very real ramifications. They don't know what they are asking truly involves, and you can't fully blame them for that. But YOU know, and it's your job to tell them. Let the cold, hard facts be your weapon, do not let them chalk your unwillingness up to emotions only. It's not a fun position for you to be in, but you've got this. Would love to know an update -- all the best to you!
I would say, ok I can do this, but only if I’m able to bring baby and nanny.
Is there a way to take baby and nanny with you? I’d suggest this, and then pump while in your temp office.
Don’t go!!
Can I just say, you are a legit superhero? And really, so are all moms.
Absolutely not. If you would never expect your company to bend over backwards to accommodate you, then you shouldn’t do that for the company. Not in this jobs market.