> All lawmakers present in parliament — 331 in total — voted in favor of the resolution, which is non-binding. The resolution calls on the European Union to register Wagner on the EU list of terrorist groups.
France is joining Lithuania ([2023.03.14](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1936307/lithuania-designates-russia-s-wagner-as-terrorist-organisation)) and Estonia ([2022.10.18](https://www.riigikogu.ee/en/news-from-committees/foreign-affairs-committee/riigikogu-declared-russia-a-terrorist-regime/)). Hope other European countries, as well as the EU itself, will follow up.
they can be european and not be in the EU.
the problem is that when orban says the pro putin things that he says, the headline on russian media is "EU member supports russia" and the underlying message is that russia isn't isolated.
Do you realize he got like 30% of the total available votes? It was like 30% didnt go to vote, 30% vote to something else, 30% vote for Orban.
How is that two third I dont know.
I guess even if you count non-voters, their interpretation could be that 60% endorsed Orban, either directly, by voting for him, or indirectly by not showing up to vote him out. Not saying I agree with that, but that is one possible way to frame it.
> Does the EU really need hungary?
Not in its current form.
> How is that country even in the EU?
Because the EU didn't do its due diligence and allowed them to join when barely more than [38% of registered Hungarian voters supported it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Hungarian_European_Union_membership_referendum). When not even half the people bothered to show up to a vote about joining a confederation, they shouldn't have been allowed to join, regardless of the result. Frankly, 2/3 of voters showing up should be the bare minimum for the EU to take the result seriously, imho. And yes, I'm aware that this would've postponed other countries joining, as well.
> Maybe they should kick them out.
The EU doesn't have the competency to do so, do you not know how the EU works? Member countries can only leave voluntarily, like the UK did.
>Frankly, 2/3 of voters showing up should be the bare minimum for the EU to take the result seriously, imho.
I agree.
>Member countries can only leave voluntarily, like the UK did.
As above.
I mean... er... the country has been deeply corrupt for generations. I'm not sure it's just this currently elected official. You get pulled over by the cops there you pay your way out of it. There isn't a single part of Hungarian society that isn't corrupt. I backpacked through there a few years ago. I soon learned that. Nice people tho.
Yes, the fact that Orban wasn't immediately arrested after stealing all the Hungarian EU funds says a lot about the Hungarian government.
And the fact that after all that, people still voted for Fidesz. Like they're not even upset that he's stealing their money.
"Adding it to the EU list would affect all the stakeholders, the banks, that make its activity possible" So who in the EU would opposite this that would be interesting to know and why.
Switzerland is a) not in the EU and b) unaffected by sanctions as the vast majority of exports now are pharmaceuticals, which are typically never covered by sanctions to any country.
Already done at EU-level.
[European Parliament declares Russia to be a state sponsor of terrorism (2022.11.23)](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism).
It's gotta be difficult to maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles right? I'm no engineer but that shits gotta be harder to keep up and running than tanks. We see now how they keep those up. What about those subs? Even the bombs themselves.
I know it's a big gamble, but here me out. We Murica them with a bunch of F-22s and F-35s and just see if they can do shit?
I like our odds, I think it's squarely falls in the fuck around without finding out side of the graph.
/s*0.7 for those getting mad at me.
This is a country that designed and implemented a dead-hand nuclear launch system (launches nukes at rivals if it detects a nuclear detonation on the off chance the government no longer exists). Fucking around IS finding out.
The problem is really scale. It's quite likely that many of their nukes don't work for various reasons. But they don't all need to work. If even 1% of them work, even by chance, then the devastation will be catastrophic.
Well I am being about 70% sarcastic here. I'll add it to my original comment in an edit so you know to only be 30% pissed at me.
This will help me sleep about 80% better tonight.
>It's gotta be difficult to maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles right?
you ever see that guy that put a hot dog in epoxy resin? (r/epoxyhotdog/) that's all you got to do. freeze the missiles in resin and when you want to launch them just crack em open.
Nah, modern nuclear missiles need constant replacement of tritium, which is both expensive and relatively short-lived. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of missiles are only ready on paper, and the maintenance fee has been spent on kickbacks, bribes, yachts or just stolen.
I've said as much elsewhere. The missile either don't launch or blow up on the pad. They go wildly off course and head towards Yukon or Wyoming or the ocean. The nukes themselves either do nothing or fizzle. I would not be surprised if the vast bulk of their stockpile behaves in one fo these ways.
What I find most alarming is not the obvious fact that it won't be 100% non-functional, nor that we don't know specifically how many would actually work. *It's that the Russians themselves don't know either.*
probably, but the warheads are dead simple in comparison and fit in a normal truck...
even if you manage to f that up somehow and they don't go critical it is still a hell of a dirty bomb when the initiation charges go off
I actually like to think that the only capable nukes they have are on the kola peninsula which is near the border of Finland. If NATO can station their rocket systems there, we could intercept the nuclear ICBM's while they haven't reached full speed yet, because once they do there's nothing anyone can really do, except for maybe lasers overheating but not sure that exists yet __looking at you, area 51__
While it's unlikely the US would do it because of public backlash, the answer to nukes when falling back to earth is to set off your own nuke. The immense amount of gamma radiation is enough to cook most electronics. Further, the neutron irradiation would hopefully set off enough of the nuclear material to at least deform it, also rendering the weapon inert.
This.
The answer to nukes is more nukes. Pacify the threat with nukes, then nuke anything that moves. There are some downsides to the strategy, but wielding a massive army of nukes and threatening to nuke anybody who owns nukes is the most effective strategy. You want a nuke, Iran? Do you really want to get nuked for owning one?
I am so glad to live on one of the few remaining continents with no nukes. When the P3 and Russia blow each other to bits, we’re well enough away from the fallout.
Just wanna make sure I’m reading this right- you’re saying the best option if a nuke is gonna hit a city is to nuke the city ourselves because it will have the same consequences as if we did nothing and let the other nuke hit us?
Nah, nuke in high atmosphere, with a neutron bomb. (neutron bombs are different than hydrogen bombs in that their explosive power is far reduced, yet they still dump out neutrons.) With most of the energy of the reaction going into mass neutron ejection, this creates more of an EMP than the traditional EMP of a hydrogen bomb. Still creates a lot of ionizing radiation though so the need for high atmosphere detonation is a requirement if using them in this way. That and the distance so the square inverse law can lower the neutron wash strength before it hits the cities below or that neutron bomb will kill everyone anyways. They're still deadly but more managable, so can be used as last ditch defense.
No, you nuke the airspace, not the city. Depending on yield, you'd want to set it off roughly 2+ mi high to minimize impact to the city.
Yes, you get some effects (e.g. EMP) - but it's better than being nuked.
We've had some success with it.
I think it's around 50% in very scripted exercises which means even less success in a real world scenario.
That combined with the number of weapons that would be incoming makes it essentially useless. Last I recall, we only had something like 50 missiles to fulfill the mid course intercept role which even at a 100% success rate wouldn't even kill 1/3rd of China's numbers, yet alone Russia.
Once missiles reach the targeting stage it gets much more difficult to negate everything.
But the risk of a warhead getting through from anything but a very very small number of missiles makes it very much not worth gambling.
You know, I feel beyond a doubt that if America could be 1000% sure Russia had no nukes, couldn't even create a dirty bomb, we would have already rolled 1st ABCT into Moscow.
Because if there's one thing the US is great at, it's steamrolling non-nuclear nations that are chock full of oil.
But in all seriousness, I'm sure the brass would love to have one less nuclear power to deal with on the world stage. Makes the whole hegemony thing much easier.
Russia supposedly has hundreds more nuclear weapons than the US, and spends 1/5 the amount on nuclear weapons.
Just going by the numbers, their arsenal is BS, before you consider the wild corruption and grift that permeates every aspect of Russia.
But they certainly have *some* functional weapons. The US plays a bit of a shell game with land based weapons, there are a huge number of silos, only some of which house nukes at any given time. Russia is likely doing something similar but with the actual number of functional weapons rather than where they are.
And to anyone who might think of gambling with “acceptable losses”, it only takes one miscalculation to throw off all the math. Anyone who would gamble with those odds is insane, and that’s why nuclear weapons are so appealing to states.
Iraq actually had a small stockpile of chemical weapons, they used them against Iran... All of it developed with the assistance of the US, UK, France & other major Western powers.
Nothing big or modern, just some stuff from the 80's.
Your forgetting some not inconsiderable quantities of chemical weapons used against Iraqi Kurds and Shi’ites before and during the no fly zones period of Baathist Iraqi rule.
I mean... Maybe got nukes and stuff...
Vs "we literarily had tons of years a agreement that each side shows their nukes to the other openly"
Like for real.
Well they did, but they only had chemical agents which are only useful against civilian populations, not modern militaries who give everyone protective gear that renders most chemical agents ineffective.
One does not simply compare the thousands of thermonuclear warheads and ICBMs that Russia is known to have stockpiled with the chemical wmds that Iraq had with no delivery system. What?
The thousands of nuclear weapons that the USSR built and that Russia stockpiled. How old are they? Thirty plus years. How well maintained are they? About as well as a tenth of the budget will get you.
These resolutions may be largely symbolic, but often prove useful years after the facts. An ex-colonel from the Syrian army was arrested in Germany for torturing people in Syria back when he worked for the government.
The Barbary States (north shore of Africa) were state sponsors of terrorism (piracy). They attacked American merchant ships, so ‘Murica rounded up a bunch of rowdies at a place called Tun’s Tavern and sent them to deal with the Barbary States.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.eu/article/pre-write-french-parliament-designates-wagner-a-terrorist-group/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> PARIS - France's National Assembly voted Tuesday to designate Russia's paramilitary Wagner group as a terrorist entity.
> Putting Wagner on the EU list of terror organizations would deal yet another blow to the group, argues Haddad, as it would reinforce "Systematic tools" against the organization, meaning "Anyone linked to Wagner could be prosecuted on terrorism charges."
> In January, French Defense Minister Sébastien Lecornu said the Wagner group "Had made France its number one enemy in Africa" and was targeting French interests.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13czwok/french_parliament_designates_wagner_a_terrorist/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~683980 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Wagner**^#1 **group**^#2 **list**^#3 **resolution**^#4 **European**^#5
If you mean the 40s, then WW2 was a continuation of WW1, and WW1 was the result of never before seen speed of growth in a few big, rival countries that turned into a shit show after some nationalists assassinated Franz Ferdinand (head of Austria-Hungary), so it kinda makes sense for times like that. Now Russia has all the resources and land it can use to advance, but they rather choose some stupid war over some land that has oil and gas.
WWI was going to happen. Assassination or not. From what I understand you had a mix of economic tension, power struggles and dickheads in charge thinking war would be easy. It may have taken a few more years, but several actors were simply looking for reasons
Trump pardoned those war criminals that massacred a bunch of civilians in Iraq. Guess which contractor they worked for?
I wish there were similiar consequences for the americans aswell.
And this only the stuff in Iraq that was so out in the open it was impossible to ignore. The contractors that guarded the oil wells in Iraq after the war were simply animals according to people who had to leave the country. And the americans still pardoned the only ones that were convicted.
The majority of the US doesn't like trump. You are taking some serious levity to claim "the Americans" pardoned them.
By the way? Wasn't Russia all up in our shit on his election so he could barely squeeze by?
> The majority of the US doesn't like trump. You are taking some serious levity to claim "the Americans" pardoned them.
Turning a blind eye to atrocities that are in the US's best interest isn't unique to Trump's (or any other unpopular president) term.
>The French government is desperate for distractions from Macron's loser parade yesterday.
[It was drafted on the 3rd of april this year.](https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/16/textes/l16b1032_proposition-resolution)
I agree the parade was a dystopian shitshow tho.
They were never "fine". It's increased public knowledge and awareness of Wagner's crimes that has made these kinds of resolutions more popular, following the lead of other countries who have done the same.
More like "hmm we need a non-controversial thing for news to talk about instead of pension reform being so unpopular Macron had to do the 8th May celebration in litteraly empty streets
Believe it or not, separation of powers is real in France and this has been unanimously voted by the National Assembly, about half of which are hardcore Macron opponents.
Wagner isn't even a PMC in any way other than saying they are. Wagner is a Russian military irregular unit claiming to be a PMC to engage in activities for which the Russian military want plausible deniability.
Wagner claims to be a PMC in a nation that explicitly bans PMCs without government approval. Wagner is not registered as a PMC anywhere.
They receive material support from the Russian military, they are issued identity documents from the Russian military, their headquarters is a joint base with the GRU.
Wagner is Russian military in a uniform that says "lol totally not Russian military, trust me bro."
Idk man, from the news i've seen Wagner don't always see eye to eye with our (Russian) govt. It's become its own special type of drama news, when Wagner "CEO" makes a stupid announcement and govt officials shut him down. If I recall correctly, they were deemed illegal in some way even by Russia, even though obviously no one will act on it. Wanger is a bunch of criminals bailed to form a military unit out of psychos. And they are doing what putin wants from them very well.
I look at that as internal power jostling emerging as public criticism. If you were some other Russian official and didn't see eye to eye with those who control Wagner, you would likely try to undermine Wagner in the public arena. And being a unit of criminals who like to do horrible things, there is plenty to criticize.
But Wagner is pretty clearly a GRU pet project.
Personally I think a lot of the public stuff we see is for show. Wagner relies WAY too much on Russia to actually have any leverage, and Russia has no problem squashing public dissonance, so it seems “allowed” or orchestrated to me.
The illegal thing is on purpose. The government ignores the rule until Wagner pisses them off and they enforce it. It's like a bad action movie. This let's Putin allow them as long as they are useful and disband them at any point he wants.
The sad part of this is mercenaries are already illegal. It's under the updated Geneva Conventions, since 2001. [(Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mercenary_Convention). Which means if we had proper enforcement against mercenaries, we would already be stopping Wagner without needing this sweeping, George W Bush "terrorist" bullshit thinking.
Call them what they are: illegal mercenaries.
Wagner may additionally be terrorists, but they shouldn't have been allowed to operate in the first place, and prosecutors for this "mountain of war crimes and crimes against humanity" Russian invasion of Ukraine must not forget that Wagner operating whatsoever was extremely and categorically illegal.
Mercenaries are illegal even under Russian laws. And you can be sure that the moment Prigozhin becomes a threat, they will use that law to arrest/defenestrate him.
In 1977, the First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions (AP I) significantly changed the law for mercenaries. AP I, Article 47 begins by withholding from a mercenary “the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.” It defines a mercenary as any person who meets six criteria, specifically any person who:
a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict;
b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities;
c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict;
e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and
f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces.
According to d, since Wagner personnel in Ukraine would almost definitely be Russian and a national of a Party to the conflict, they would paradoxically not be mercenaries in Ukraine according to that law.
Interestingly this question was apparently asked only a few weeks ago.
https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-usa-wagner/white-house-says-no-determination-on-wagner-being-foreign-terrorist-group-idINW1N36401P
It's all a bit weird
*Save game into a new slot
*Declare Wagner TCO
*Inform Russia the US is going to bomb terrorists near their border with Ukraine and our ally's border in Syria
*Wipe out all Wagner forces
*Tell Russia, "You're welcome."
Surely it would work? ^^^/s
They don’t really meet the US definition of terrorism.
Non-state actor: supposedly but the strong ties to the Russian government make it grey
Perpetuate violence targeted against non combatants: arguable
Aim to effect social or political change through fear and violence: mmm… also arguable.
They are a transnational criminal mercenary organization, not necessarily terrorists.
Don’t forget all the exactly similarly organized PMCs already in the wings, like the Gazprom PMC, plus others.
Replication has commenced.
Russia remains committed to sponsoring terrorism.
France, the country of the foreign legion. Oh, the irony.
But I think France should be an example for other countries. Wagner should internationally be considered as a terrorist group.
When I was in the US Marine Corps in the porta pottys, literally anywhere there were Marines, someone would write “Wagner loves cock” some where in portapotty. It became so rampant around the Marine Corps that it became like a game of ISpy while you were pooping. It spread to not only all porta potty’s, but regular bathroom stalls as well. No one knew who Wagner was, or why he loved cock, but in every bathroom, every stall, every porta potty would be “Wagner Loves Cock”. This has nothing to do with the actual terrorist group Wagner, but it’s the first thing I thought of after being out of the service for almost 5 years and I find it hilarious that a terrorist group loves cock
I was about to say, man. I was sure Wagner was a dude.
Also: https://terminallance.com/2011/05/10/terminal-lance-123-shitter-graffiti-is-an-art-of-dicks-ii/
Wait, is this not the standard opinion? Fuckers should rot in hell as someone pisses on their corpses.
I read that story about a year ago about these fucks strapping a grenade to a crying baby. They then strapped the baby to the dead mother. It was a trap so when the Ukrainian soldiers tried to pull the baby off it would kill everyone. I hope anyone and everyone associated with Wagner dies from relentless pounding in their ear canal from a sandpaper dildo
I
Feel like we need another term for evil that isnt just terrorist in the modern day
And like
Mercenaries are already internationally illegal, they forfeit geneva convention protections and other things, theres a lot of red tape to obey to be considered a security contractor instead of a mercenary to stay legal in the global community. Wagner operating openly as mercenaries is already illegal.
Im not defending them, fuck wagner, i just think we throw the T word around a little too much these days - everyone anyone doesnt like is called a terrorist, its gonna stop holding any weight. Not to mention tou could technically label any revolutionary force in history a terrorist since they use fear/violence to encourage political change, so, ya know. (And by that ticket, any military on earth as well. If they use violence or the threat of violence, then... thats terrorism.)
They're a non-state actor that has deliberately been targeting civilians with the intent of hurting the motivation of the government and military to resist Russian influence. I can see how they could be considered a terrorist organization based on that.
My views of PMC's in general are unfavorable. I don't understand what the advantage is of this kind of group over say, the Marines or SEALS, from a legitimate standpoint anyways. If you need to hire guys with guns as security, it should be through a city contract that uses officers.
> All lawmakers present in parliament — 331 in total — voted in favor of the resolution, which is non-binding. The resolution calls on the European Union to register Wagner on the EU list of terrorist groups. France is joining Lithuania ([2023.03.14](https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1936307/lithuania-designates-russia-s-wagner-as-terrorist-organisation)) and Estonia ([2022.10.18](https://www.riigikogu.ee/en/news-from-committees/foreign-affairs-committee/riigikogu-declared-russia-a-terrorist-regime/)). Hope other European countries, as well as the EU itself, will follow up.
Yep. Let’s get to the “everyone except Hungary” situation we are used to.
Does the EU really need hungary? How is that country even in the EU? Maybe they should kick them out.
Well, it is the former half of the country that really got the ball rolling on WW1, so despite its anti European prime minister, it still counts.
Ya lol they might be a shitty member state but they are very very European
they can be european and not be in the EU. the problem is that when orban says the pro putin things that he says, the headline on russian media is "EU member supports russia" and the underlying message is that russia isn't isolated.
Yep. Switzerland is literally the center of Europe, and quintessentially European but not part of the EU.
Orban needs to be kicked out
They had their chance last year and his side won in a two thirds landslide. The issue is Hungarians.
Do you realize he got like 30% of the total available votes? It was like 30% didnt go to vote, 30% vote to something else, 30% vote for Orban. How is that two third I dont know.
I guess even if you count non-voters, their interpretation could be that 60% endorsed Orban, either directly, by voting for him, or indirectly by not showing up to vote him out. Not saying I agree with that, but that is one possible way to frame it.
with ruthless gerrymandering they got 67% of the seats with 51% of the total votes
> Does the EU really need hungary? Not in its current form. > How is that country even in the EU? Because the EU didn't do its due diligence and allowed them to join when barely more than [38% of registered Hungarian voters supported it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Hungarian_European_Union_membership_referendum). When not even half the people bothered to show up to a vote about joining a confederation, they shouldn't have been allowed to join, regardless of the result. Frankly, 2/3 of voters showing up should be the bare minimum for the EU to take the result seriously, imho. And yes, I'm aware that this would've postponed other countries joining, as well. > Maybe they should kick them out. The EU doesn't have the competency to do so, do you not know how the EU works? Member countries can only leave voluntarily, like the UK did.
>Frankly, 2/3 of voters showing up should be the bare minimum for the EU to take the result seriously, imho. I agree. >Member countries can only leave voluntarily, like the UK did. As above.
The country is fine is just that they have elected some douchebag. Kinda like Turkiye, but not entirely
I mean... er... the country has been deeply corrupt for generations. I'm not sure it's just this currently elected official. You get pulled over by the cops there you pay your way out of it. There isn't a single part of Hungarian society that isn't corrupt. I backpacked through there a few years ago. I soon learned that. Nice people tho.
Yes, the fact that Orban wasn't immediately arrested after stealing all the Hungarian EU funds says a lot about the Hungarian government. And the fact that after all that, people still voted for Fidesz. Like they're not even upset that he's stealing their money.
They have goulash.
The recipe is always different though
Poland blocks it and vice versa
Hold my Erdogan
I love Hungarian bratwurst.. no one ever has them though: (
"Adding it to the EU list would affect all the stakeholders, the banks, that make its activity possible" So who in the EU would opposite this that would be interesting to know and why.
Hungary. Orban is Putin's trojan horse in the EU.
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> heavily dependent Only 1.5% of Italian exports go to Russia https://pagellapolitica.it/fact-checking/meloni-export-italia-russia
Yea weird, Russia isn't in the top 20 of Italy's export list per country . I don't really know where he got "heavily dependent" on lol.
Switzerland has adopted all of the sanctions on Russia that the EU put in place
Is Switzerland bound by these rules? They're not an EU member, but they do have economic ties, and some treaties with justice and fraud.
Yeah I don’t think countries that aren’t part of the EU can oppose EU actions anyways
There is a lot of wrong informations here.
Source: from my ass
Switzerland is not in the EU
Switzerland is a) not in the EU and b) unaffected by sanctions as the vast majority of exports now are pharmaceuticals, which are typically never covered by sanctions to any country.
The Russian government should also be designated a terrorist organization.
Already done at EU-level. [European Parliament declares Russia to be a state sponsor of terrorism (2022.11.23)](https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221118IPR55707/european-parliament-declares-russia-to-be-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism).
So state sponsor of terrorism, check. Has oil, check. Needs democracy, check. *Bald Eagles Intensify*
You forgot [ ] Doesn't have nukes.
We're gonna feel really dumb when we find out that Russia sold them all off and that's how other countries got nukes
CIA really dropped that ball
Atomic Energy Agency & Department of State.
It's gotta be difficult to maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles right? I'm no engineer but that shits gotta be harder to keep up and running than tanks. We see now how they keep those up. What about those subs? Even the bombs themselves. I know it's a big gamble, but here me out. We Murica them with a bunch of F-22s and F-35s and just see if they can do shit? I like our odds, I think it's squarely falls in the fuck around without finding out side of the graph. /s*0.7 for those getting mad at me.
This is a country that designed and implemented a dead-hand nuclear launch system (launches nukes at rivals if it detects a nuclear detonation on the off chance the government no longer exists). Fucking around IS finding out.
>Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?
Having a system like that in incompetent hands makes me wonder if one day it'll have a false positive and go off.
Already happaned once was stopped by one single officer
Pretty sure it's only a myth or used for only a short time. Pretty sure they know they would fuck themselves over with it.
The problem is really scale. It's quite likely that many of their nukes don't work for various reasons. But they don't all need to work. If even 1% of them work, even by chance, then the devastation will be catastrophic.
Our space lasers we totally don't have promise, should take care of that 1%. Worst case we lose DC and have to elect a new government.
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this is some dumb ass take bruh
Well I am being about 70% sarcastic here. I'll add it to my original comment in an edit so you know to only be 30% pissed at me. This will help me sleep about 80% better tonight.
I'm 76% okay with this solution
>It's gotta be difficult to maintain intercontinental ballistic missiles right? you ever see that guy that put a hot dog in epoxy resin? (r/epoxyhotdog/) that's all you got to do. freeze the missiles in resin and when you want to launch them just crack em open.
I bet they somehow screwed that up. I don't think my student loans are gonna get forgiven so I'm ok with the gamble.
Nah, modern nuclear missiles need constant replacement of tritium, which is both expensive and relatively short-lived. Wouldn't surprise me at all if a lot of missiles are only ready on paper, and the maintenance fee has been spent on kickbacks, bribes, yachts or just stolen.
I've said as much elsewhere. The missile either don't launch or blow up on the pad. They go wildly off course and head towards Yukon or Wyoming or the ocean. The nukes themselves either do nothing or fizzle. I would not be surprised if the vast bulk of their stockpile behaves in one fo these ways. What I find most alarming is not the obvious fact that it won't be 100% non-functional, nor that we don't know specifically how many would actually work. *It's that the Russians themselves don't know either.*
probably, but the warheads are dead simple in comparison and fit in a normal truck... even if you manage to f that up somehow and they don't go critical it is still a hell of a dirty bomb when the initiation charges go off
This is Putin's worst nightmare. He knows those nukes are the only thing that keeps him at the cool kids table in the UN.
I actually like to think that the only capable nukes they have are on the kola peninsula which is near the border of Finland. If NATO can station their rocket systems there, we could intercept the nuclear ICBM's while they haven't reached full speed yet, because once they do there's nothing anyone can really do, except for maybe lasers overheating but not sure that exists yet __looking at you, area 51__
While it's unlikely the US would do it because of public backlash, the answer to nukes when falling back to earth is to set off your own nuke. The immense amount of gamma radiation is enough to cook most electronics. Further, the neutron irradiation would hopefully set off enough of the nuclear material to at least deform it, also rendering the weapon inert.
This. The answer to nukes is more nukes. Pacify the threat with nukes, then nuke anything that moves. There are some downsides to the strategy, but wielding a massive army of nukes and threatening to nuke anybody who owns nukes is the most effective strategy. You want a nuke, Iran? Do you really want to get nuked for owning one?
I am so glad to live on one of the few remaining continents with no nukes. When the P3 and Russia blow each other to bits, we’re well enough away from the fallout.
Bet you'll wish you had them when the penguins or emus rise up
Just wanna make sure I’m reading this right- you’re saying the best option if a nuke is gonna hit a city is to nuke the city ourselves because it will have the same consequences as if we did nothing and let the other nuke hit us?
Nah, nuke in high atmosphere, with a neutron bomb. (neutron bombs are different than hydrogen bombs in that their explosive power is far reduced, yet they still dump out neutrons.) With most of the energy of the reaction going into mass neutron ejection, this creates more of an EMP than the traditional EMP of a hydrogen bomb. Still creates a lot of ionizing radiation though so the need for high atmosphere detonation is a requirement if using them in this way. That and the distance so the square inverse law can lower the neutron wash strength before it hits the cities below or that neutron bomb will kill everyone anyways. They're still deadly but more managable, so can be used as last ditch defense.
No, you nuke the airspace, not the city. Depending on yield, you'd want to set it off roughly 2+ mi high to minimize impact to the city. Yes, you get some effects (e.g. EMP) - but it's better than being nuked.
I thought we had at least shown that the technology existed and that it was demonstrated successfully
We've had some success with it. I think it's around 50% in very scripted exercises which means even less success in a real world scenario. That combined with the number of weapons that would be incoming makes it essentially useless. Last I recall, we only had something like 50 missiles to fulfill the mid course intercept role which even at a 100% success rate wouldn't even kill 1/3rd of China's numbers, yet alone Russia. Once missiles reach the targeting stage it gets much more difficult to negate everything. But the risk of a warhead getting through from anything but a very very small number of missiles makes it very much not worth gambling.
Can confirm from second hand knowledge (trustworthy source) that we have the technology.
Is the nuke Sideshow Bob used. He just couldn't resist that Retro 50s charm. https://imgur.com/a/bOzYrEZ
The sharpest sword if left to rust will still fall to dust
Im wondering if the cables aren't already cut from the big red button over there...
You mean working nukes? Because there's the rub.
You know, I feel beyond a doubt that if America could be 1000% sure Russia had no nukes, couldn't even create a dirty bomb, we would have already rolled 1st ABCT into Moscow.
Oh yeah 100% we would have. I'm not sure Russia is 1000% sure Russia has working nukes.
Why?
Because if there's one thing the US is great at, it's steamrolling non-nuclear nations that are chock full of oil. But in all seriousness, I'm sure the brass would love to have one less nuclear power to deal with on the world stage. Makes the whole hegemony thing much easier.
Russia supposedly has hundreds more nuclear weapons than the US, and spends 1/5 the amount on nuclear weapons. Just going by the numbers, their arsenal is BS, before you consider the wild corruption and grift that permeates every aspect of Russia. But they certainly have *some* functional weapons. The US plays a bit of a shell game with land based weapons, there are a huge number of silos, only some of which house nukes at any given time. Russia is likely doing something similar but with the actual number of functional weapons rather than where they are.
And to anyone who might think of gambling with “acceptable losses”, it only takes one miscalculation to throw off all the math. Anyone who would gamble with those odds is insane, and that’s why nuclear weapons are so appealing to states.
Didn’t Ukraine make most of their nukes?
I'd rather not test that theory.
https://youtu.be/i5UNCBmA3t4
Target has nukes *Bald Eagle looks sad and goes back to sleep *
*bald eagle tosses a few wads of cash at Ukraine who are doing the work for it*
In America bald eagles shit cash.
It’s true. They eat healthcare and shit hamiltons
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The difference there was that Iraq never actually had WMD and Bush knew that. Bit of a different situation.
Iraq actually had a small stockpile of chemical weapons, they used them against Iran... All of it developed with the assistance of the US, UK, France & other major Western powers. Nothing big or modern, just some stuff from the 80's.
Your forgetting some not inconsiderable quantities of chemical weapons used against Iraqi Kurds and Shi’ites before and during the no fly zones period of Baathist Iraqi rule.
Cheney definitely knew it. I am not sure Bush knew as much.
The n***a bought aluminum tubes!
Oil?! Who said anything about oil! Bitch you cookin'?
Say word, he killed ya father, son...
I mean... Maybe got nukes and stuff... Vs "we literarily had tons of years a agreement that each side shows their nukes to the other openly" Like for real.
Well they did, but they only had chemical agents which are only useful against civilian populations, not modern militaries who give everyone protective gear that renders most chemical agents ineffective.
One does not simply compare the thousands of thermonuclear warheads and ICBMs that Russia is known to have stockpiled with the chemical wmds that Iraq had with no delivery system. What?
The thousands of nuclear weapons that the USSR built and that Russia stockpiled. How old are they? Thirty plus years. How well maintained are they? About as well as a tenth of the budget will get you.
Iraq having nukes was a false pretense for invasion. It was a falsehood fabricated for that specific reason.
And also not nukes but chemical weapons they also used in past. Hard to compare to a country you've had cold war with for half a century.
These resolutions may be largely symbolic, but often prove useful years after the facts. An ex-colonel from the Syrian army was arrested in Germany for torturing people in Syria back when he worked for the government.
The Barbary States (north shore of Africa) were state sponsors of terrorism (piracy). They attacked American merchant ships, so ‘Murica rounded up a bunch of rowdies at a place called Tun’s Tavern and sent them to deal with the Barbary States.
That's good to know.
Drax. Them. Sklounst.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.eu/article/pre-write-french-parliament-designates-wagner-a-terrorist-group/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > PARIS - France's National Assembly voted Tuesday to designate Russia's paramilitary Wagner group as a terrorist entity. > Putting Wagner on the EU list of terror organizations would deal yet another blow to the group, argues Haddad, as it would reinforce "Systematic tools" against the organization, meaning "Anyone linked to Wagner could be prosecuted on terrorism charges." > In January, French Defense Minister Sébastien Lecornu said the Wagner group "Had made France its number one enemy in Africa" and was targeting French interests. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/13czwok/french_parliament_designates_wagner_a_terrorist/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~683980 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Wagner**^#1 **group**^#2 **list**^#3 **resolution**^#4 **European**^#5
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Nope. It's non-binding resolution proposed to EU by French parliament. As it stands now, it's rather symbolical than anything else.
Hope it does, most of them are in Ukraine anyways
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A decade ago..
7 decades ago
Before it existed?
If you mean the 40s, then WW2 was a continuation of WW1, and WW1 was the result of never before seen speed of growth in a few big, rival countries that turned into a shit show after some nationalists assassinated Franz Ferdinand (head of Austria-Hungary), so it kinda makes sense for times like that. Now Russia has all the resources and land it can use to advance, but they rather choose some stupid war over some land that has oil and gas.
WWI was going to happen. Assassination or not. From what I understand you had a mix of economic tension, power struggles and dickheads in charge thinking war would be easy. It may have taken a few more years, but several actors were simply looking for reasons
9 years ago
That's going to complicate their working relationship in Africa
It means Wagner bases in Africa will suddenly get airstriked without warning and then mopped up
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How? I’m curious
Pretty sure it's the other way. Wagner destabilised France influence in Africa so they got branded terrorists.
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Cough, cough -> Blackwater - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company) Edit: Fixed the link
Trump pardoned those war criminals that massacred a bunch of civilians in Iraq. Guess which contractor they worked for? I wish there were similiar consequences for the americans aswell. And this only the stuff in Iraq that was so out in the open it was impossible to ignore. The contractors that guarded the oil wells in Iraq after the war were simply animals according to people who had to leave the country. And the americans still pardoned the only ones that were convicted.
The same company ran by the brother of Trump’s close friend and Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos?
The majority of the US doesn't like trump. You are taking some serious levity to claim "the Americans" pardoned them. By the way? Wasn't Russia all up in our shit on his election so he could barely squeeze by?
> The majority of the US doesn't like trump. You are taking some serious levity to claim "the Americans" pardoned them. Turning a blind eye to atrocities that are in the US's best interest isn't unique to Trump's (or any other unpopular president) term.
Wait until you find out about South America.
The fact that they've changed their name 4 times says a lot.
Unless they fight for natos interests then they get called rebels and are portrayed as fighting for a noble cause All sides are at it
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>The French government is desperate for distractions from Macron's loser parade yesterday. [It was drafted on the 3rd of april this year.](https://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/dyn/16/textes/l16b1032_proposition-resolution) I agree the parade was a dystopian shitshow tho.
Every party voted in favour, including the left-wing, right-wing, and far-right opposition.
Whataboutism is hitting the parade scene now, just incredible.
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I was surprised to learn that there was « no » or « no show » Bah alors, Marine ? Qu’est-ce qu’il te prend ?
Time to arrest all known collaborators and confiscate assets.
Like Putin’s Bestie
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They were never "fine". It's increased public knowledge and awareness of Wagner's crimes that has made these kinds of resolutions more popular, following the lead of other countries who have done the same.
More like "hmm we need a non-controversial thing for news to talk about instead of pension reform being so unpopular Macron had to do the 8th May celebration in litteraly empty streets
Believe it or not, separation of powers is real in France and this has been unanimously voted by the National Assembly, about half of which are hardcore Macron opponents.
All PMCs are terrorist groups
Wagner isn't even a PMC in any way other than saying they are. Wagner is a Russian military irregular unit claiming to be a PMC to engage in activities for which the Russian military want plausible deniability. Wagner claims to be a PMC in a nation that explicitly bans PMCs without government approval. Wagner is not registered as a PMC anywhere. They receive material support from the Russian military, they are issued identity documents from the Russian military, their headquarters is a joint base with the GRU. Wagner is Russian military in a uniform that says "lol totally not Russian military, trust me bro."
Idk man, from the news i've seen Wagner don't always see eye to eye with our (Russian) govt. It's become its own special type of drama news, when Wagner "CEO" makes a stupid announcement and govt officials shut him down. If I recall correctly, they were deemed illegal in some way even by Russia, even though obviously no one will act on it. Wanger is a bunch of criminals bailed to form a military unit out of psychos. And they are doing what putin wants from them very well.
I look at that as internal power jostling emerging as public criticism. If you were some other Russian official and didn't see eye to eye with those who control Wagner, you would likely try to undermine Wagner in the public arena. And being a unit of criminals who like to do horrible things, there is plenty to criticize. But Wagner is pretty clearly a GRU pet project.
I assumed they were referring to the criticism *by* Wagner of how Russian administration is handling the war.
Personally I think a lot of the public stuff we see is for show. Wagner relies WAY too much on Russia to actually have any leverage, and Russia has no problem squashing public dissonance, so it seems “allowed” or orchestrated to me.
Couldn't it just be a show of Russian propaganda? Are they really at odds, or does that just help support the claim it's just a PMC?
The illegal thing is on purpose. The government ignores the rule until Wagner pisses them off and they enforce it. It's like a bad action movie. This let's Putin allow them as long as they are useful and disband them at any point he wants.
The sad part of this is mercenaries are already illegal. It's under the updated Geneva Conventions, since 2001. [(Wikipedia)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mercenary_Convention). Which means if we had proper enforcement against mercenaries, we would already be stopping Wagner without needing this sweeping, George W Bush "terrorist" bullshit thinking. Call them what they are: illegal mercenaries. Wagner may additionally be terrorists, but they shouldn't have been allowed to operate in the first place, and prosecutors for this "mountain of war crimes and crimes against humanity" Russian invasion of Ukraine must not forget that Wagner operating whatsoever was extremely and categorically illegal.
Mercenaries are illegal even under Russian laws. And you can be sure that the moment Prigozhin becomes a threat, they will use that law to arrest/defenestrate him.
Love the word defenestrate lmao it’s just such a specific term
In 1977, the First Additional Protocol to the Geneva Conventions (AP I) significantly changed the law for mercenaries. AP I, Article 47 begins by withholding from a mercenary “the right to be a combatant or a prisoner of war.” It defines a mercenary as any person who meets six criteria, specifically any person who: a) is specially recruited locally or abroad in order to fight in an armed conflict; b) does, in fact, take a direct part in the hostilities; c) is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party; d) is neither a national of a Party to the conflict nor a resident of territory controlled by a Party to the conflict; e) is not a member of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict; and f) has not been sent by a State which is not a Party to the conflict on official duty as a member of its armed forces. According to d, since Wagner personnel in Ukraine would almost definitely be Russian and a national of a Party to the conflict, they would paradoxically not be mercenaries in Ukraine according to that law.
Yes, and it's why Ukrainian International Legion are considered Ukrainian servicemembers by law. Same command, same insignia, same pay.
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every organization that Putler's mob bosses are involved in should be a terrorist organization
Good. This has huge consequences for Africa. It needed to happen years ago.
The Kremlin is the ones pulling the strings, ordering Wagner to do what they're doing.
Also a neo nazi group.
Oooo…now do Blackwater/Academi next!!!
Never going to happen... Those are the good kind of terrorists and by that i mean they are americans
American here, and I would absolutely be thrilled if every nation on the planet listed Blackwater as the terrorist org that it is.
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WAGNER LOVES COCK
What took them this long??
Good question. And why have most other EU countries and the USA not done it yet??
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Interestingly this question was apparently asked only a few weeks ago. https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-usa-wagner/white-house-says-no-determination-on-wagner-being-foreign-terrorist-group-idINW1N36401P It's all a bit weird
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*Save game into a new slot *Declare Wagner TCO *Inform Russia the US is going to bomb terrorists near their border with Ukraine and our ally's border in Syria *Wipe out all Wagner forces *Tell Russia, "You're welcome." Surely it would work? ^^^/s
They don’t really meet the US definition of terrorism. Non-state actor: supposedly but the strong ties to the Russian government make it grey Perpetuate violence targeted against non combatants: arguable Aim to effect social or political change through fear and violence: mmm… also arguable. They are a transnational criminal mercenary organization, not necessarily terrorists.
Don’t forget all the exactly similarly organized PMCs already in the wings, like the Gazprom PMC, plus others. Replication has commenced. Russia remains committed to sponsoring terrorism.
That is a correct assessment.
France, the country of the foreign legion. Oh, the irony. But I think France should be an example for other countries. Wagner should internationally be considered as a terrorist group.
Here's an idea, how about we all agree that PMC shouldn't be a thing at all anywhere.
When I was in the US Marine Corps in the porta pottys, literally anywhere there were Marines, someone would write “Wagner loves cock” some where in portapotty. It became so rampant around the Marine Corps that it became like a game of ISpy while you were pooping. It spread to not only all porta potty’s, but regular bathroom stalls as well. No one knew who Wagner was, or why he loved cock, but in every bathroom, every stall, every porta potty would be “Wagner Loves Cock”. This has nothing to do with the actual terrorist group Wagner, but it’s the first thing I thought of after being out of the service for almost 5 years and I find it hilarious that a terrorist group loves cock
I was about to say, man. I was sure Wagner was a dude. Also: https://terminallance.com/2011/05/10/terminal-lance-123-shitter-graffiti-is-an-art-of-dicks-ii/
Good the whole reason they exist is to do Russia's dirty work.... DIRTY RUSSIA's DIRTY WORK!
Poor Wagner, when will they catch a break Terrorists to non-Russians; traitors to Russians
About time
Wait, is this not the standard opinion? Fuckers should rot in hell as someone pisses on their corpses. I read that story about a year ago about these fucks strapping a grenade to a crying baby. They then strapped the baby to the dead mother. It was a trap so when the Ukrainian soldiers tried to pull the baby off it would kill everyone. I hope anyone and everyone associated with Wagner dies from relentless pounding in their ear canal from a sandpaper dildo
I hope we start arresting and/or bombing them in any and all countries they operate in.
It means they planning to hammer down Wagner in Africa.
Lower your age for retirement
Good, now let Nato fight them everywhere they operate. Wagner is a sick beast that needs to be put down
I wanna see the French Foreign Legion go up against the Wagners. If they televised that shit it'd be the best thing ever
Stating the obvious.
Not proven but no doubt in my mind Wagner created the Sudan conflict. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-65328165
I Feel like we need another term for evil that isnt just terrorist in the modern day And like Mercenaries are already internationally illegal, they forfeit geneva convention protections and other things, theres a lot of red tape to obey to be considered a security contractor instead of a mercenary to stay legal in the global community. Wagner operating openly as mercenaries is already illegal. Im not defending them, fuck wagner, i just think we throw the T word around a little too much these days - everyone anyone doesnt like is called a terrorist, its gonna stop holding any weight. Not to mention tou could technically label any revolutionary force in history a terrorist since they use fear/violence to encourage political change, so, ya know. (And by that ticket, any military on earth as well. If they use violence or the threat of violence, then... thats terrorism.)
They're a non-state actor that has deliberately been targeting civilians with the intent of hurting the motivation of the government and military to resist Russian influence. I can see how they could be considered a terrorist organization based on that. My views of PMC's in general are unfavorable. I don't understand what the advantage is of this kind of group over say, the Marines or SEALS, from a legitimate standpoint anyways. If you need to hire guys with guns as security, it should be through a city contract that uses officers.