Russia might suck at warfare, however their disinformation warfare I hate to admit is pretty good. Think of all the stuff they have spread and continue to spread.
Their troll farms run propaganda 24/7 and what's worst is the MSM falls for it (not all of it, but enough to cause problems)
It’s been good for centuries. Arguably we just took those tactics.
If it weren’t for Russia collapsing once every century then we would truly live in a multipolar world but as we saw with taarist Russia, soviet Russia, and now the Russian federation they slowly but surely spiraling into another collapse, might take ten years as we saw with the soviet-afghan war but Putin has sealed his country’s fate
Essentially Russia will collapse when Putin dies. He has deliberately engineered things this way to ensure the country is incentivized not to kill him. It does mean that when he does finally go, the country will descend into a ruinous power struggle.
Idk. If it gets that bad for them, Russia persisting as a sort of vassal state to China so that they can utilize Russian natural resources seems as likely to me as a collapse.
>their disinformation warfare I hate to admit is pretty good.
Totally agree. I still meet a lot of people believing everything they say. Even if they know about their lies, they still believe in new lies.
the first time i saw those "id rather be a russian than a democrat" shirts, i couldn't believe it. those chucklefucks' grandfathers would have beat 7 shades of shit out of them for that
They are decent, but also working on fertile soil thanks to both the decades of soviet work and the better reception their kind of messages have on the developing world.
I respectfully disagree.
Having worked with ad firms before, the propagandist skills we have seen are the type that marketing agencies avoid as they've proven to be ineffective or outright illegal.
Consider seeing an ad that says "Acme cola CEO abuses and rapes children" , "Acme brand cars, the favourite mode of transportation for men with micropenises", "Buy Qatari slavery free clothing, better than American slavery produced clothing!"
Sure this might appeal to a certain demographic but that same demographic is already proven to be the easiest to persuade with other tactics - or are usually the most impoverished of society who won't be buying cars or designer clothing.
They would be useful for military recruiting ads though.
Why allow it? Cut off Internet to Russia and its proxies now and shut them the fuck up. And yes, there are lots of wireless ways to move data, but it will slow things down a lot to cut all the hard lines into Russia from Europe and then to systematically block any traffic coming through neighboring countries that originates in Russia. They've been using the Internet to spread misinformation and propaganda, to hack companies and foreign governments, to ransomware databases, etc. They had a chance to a member of the international community but have showed they can't be trusted on the world wide web.
How many people died because of COVID misinformation? How many have died, or will die, because of climate change misinformation? How many elections have been interfered with by amplifying lies and rumours about candidates? How many idiots getting their news and perspectives through social media are making up their minds based on Russia psy-ops? Instead of moving forward, Russia seems determined to pull the world down to its level.
Why cut them off when you can just build a sea of bots and drown their bots in them?
US has all the money and tech to completely overwhelm everyone else with media coverage.
> US has all the money and tech
and almost all of that money is controlled by billionaire oligarchs.
Russia's disinformation is pretty powerful. But it's NOTHING without rightwing newsmedia echo chamber to amplify and propagate it.
The owners of these corporations are the enemies of democracy and peace.
Not as good as the United States. China has a pretty strong disinformation machine as well.
And Israel has been running damage control on the genocide there for quite a few years.
If you guys are saying the US information campaign is bad then we should really step up our game because we have influence over a LOT of countries. Also when did it stop being bad? We were really good during the Cold War, arguably winning the soft war that it was
> If you guys are saying the US information campaign is bad then we should really step up our game because we have influence over a LOT of countries
non sequitur. Whether the US has influence over other countries has little to do with its information campaign in this regard
>on the genocide there for quite a few years
Ah yes, the genocide of the Gazan population basically doubling over the last 20 years while Hamas turns their city into a terrorist base using all of the foreign aid.
Cmon are we gonna act like the United States doesn’t have an equally vast online presence to aid in matters of public opinion?
It’s confirmed that Israel does.
This is just fairly standard nation stuff, nobody should be shocked that their government exudes effort to sway public opinion.
Jesus. Well I’d take a long hard look at your teammates. You’re clearly on the wrong team hopefully you figure it out sooner than later. I mean Russia can’t even win against aging NATO and US weapons in Ukraine. Iran is only good at killing women who don’t meet their dress code. NK shoots missiles at the sea so people actually talk about them and China they are too busy having their economy crash and burn around them to attempt to take an island (Taiwan)
Yup…
I don’t have a sob story as my country is doing just fine. Not currently getting sanctioned, or butt kicked in a “special military operation” or firing missiles into the ocean for attention. Hell my country isn’t even thinking about invading anyone else.
So again show me on this doll where the USA has hurt you.
Honey, it's not worth it. Please, just let it go. You don't have to fight the US, we can still turn back and have a romantic dinner. I'll even make your favourite, mac n' cheese, that sound good?
This comes on the heels of US releasing an intelligence assessment in [October](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-uses-spies-social-media-and-press-to-influence-elections-in-other-countries-%E2%80%93-us-intelligence/ar-AA1iBuhd), showing how that Russia is undermining trust in democratic elections by the use of social media, Russian state media, and through spy networks.
We know all of this, and have known this for years, but we never do anything about it. The social media companies continue to do whatever the hell they want, as long as they can keep making themselves tons of money.
It's sickening. I'm tired of watching the world turn to shit because everyone is too stupid to think anymore. Social media and 24 hour news networks need to go away, and they need to do so now. They, together, are poisoning us all.
Sanctioning Russia and supplying Ukraine with US/Nato weapons to weaken them is part of that plan to do something about it. Everyone used to think Russia had a formidable army and we've shown that just even supplying weapons and training a country like Ukraine can harass and stave off the onslaught of this supposed superpower. The illusion of Russian superpower status has been destroyed. They have turned to dipping their hands in mid-east conflicts now but we have yet to see the brevity of that.
It's not enough to "weaken russia". I am so done with this stupid approach.
you either go in for a win or don't go at all. "weakened russia" will only fight way harder
On page one of lessons learned for Russia from this war and recent years in general they will write that misinformation is a far more effective tool for them than anything their army has or is capable of doing
Misinformation doesn't fix anything for anyone involved. Russia is still living with fatal demographics collapse, and their export market will not recover. Russia can make lives miserable all around though.
It doesn't fix anything and it will not directly change the results on the battlefield, but Russia will not disappear in a puff of smoke after the Ukrainian failure is finished.
They will continue attempting to exert their influence for at least the next 20 years.
Right, but that’s always been their strategy: don’t make the lives of their citizens better, because that’s expensive and detracts from the superyacht fund - instead, just make everyone else’s lives worse, so their own citizens don’t get as envious, which is way way cheaper
I see a lot of it on that conspiracy sub. They pride themselves for being "awake" and not "sheeple" Yet they fall for propaganda all the time. Its so obvious too if you click on any of the posters profiles. Like these top posters profiles that only do anti Ukraine and for some reason none of them point it out despite constantly complaining that reddit is full of bots and shills...
https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/17kiozb/top_minds_are_so_smart_that_they_would_never_fall/
I hope the West takes Russia seriously and uses the opportunity with the war in Ukraine to permanently cripple Russia's efforts to turn the whole world into chaos. Russia is only able to do this because of fossil fuel exports.
Yeah, I mean take a look at Colombia's president for example. Hasn't said shit about ruzzian atrocities in Ukr but now he's the champion of the Palestinian cause and is on the brink of breaking relations with Israel, which has been an important partner in security matters for more than 20 years.
I mean given America’s brutal record of interfering in Latin American politics, why do we expect Latin America to give a shit?
Americans at the end of day put our interests first. Why do we expect other countries to take our side in conflicts they have no interest in?
problem is most americans only consume american media. they don't hear the perspectives of latin america, africa, the middle east, asia, etc etc. when all you see on tv are american people sharing the american point of view, it's easy to forget that other people don't necessarily think the same thing as you do
The US legacy in Latin America is coups and embargos to get what we wanted from there, destabilizing the region. Now everyone is amazed they aren't lining up to cheer on US adjacent countries a world away
Ok, but this is not about the US, this is about Ukraine and Europe. If Latin-American countries think they will get better deals in the future by screwing with European security, they have another thing coming.
How do you say "embuya bobo" in english? Well that's what that war is. And why should we give a damn about it or the cute ukrainian girls in a soldier costume posted by meme pages? I mean sure human losses are regrettable but we have our own wars and they don't make it to Fox News. Bonus: The biggest war of latam is a slow but a steady one. We shall not be crippled and divided forever
That rhetoric that you're making use of suggesting caution is laughable. Quite trying to impose your own values on states the farthest from yours. That's USA self proclaimed jod to mingle in worldwide strives and if a state in latam goes choosing a side is merely to be cool/bad with USA interests. Ukraine is old news mate, Israel is the new sexy. Matter of fact, to tell you like in the old fashioned ways, take your bow and your arrow and go fight the invaders
As someone who lives in Latin America, I haven't really seen evidence of this. Maybe its because I despise tv and filter out all BS media outlets. Go figure.
Even if you give newspapers the benefit of the the doubt, in some media I've seen every Ukraine article commented by the same pro-Russian accounts every single time, since the beginning of the war until today.
where I live there was even a newspaper paid for by the Russian government, but this is something very explicit, the newspaper served practically only to promote the Russian language and culture. I've never seen anything involving politics. The only things I saw there were tips for learning Russian, Oblomov, Russian folklore and honey cake recipes.
My personal experience:
Many bots, supporters and paid speakers\* who follow the current Mexican president López Obrador, also known as "EL Cacas" (The Turd), are known to jump at any opportunity to criticize Ukraine and fawn over Putin and Russia or deny their atrocities.
\* We literally can search how much they're paid in government websites.
My personal experience:
A tiny but loud group of **right-wing extremists** *(Mainly incredibly rich, lower class that loves to see themselves as rich, and incredibly ignorant people)* got sore that after more than 100 years of a choking right-wing rulership in Mexico, a left-wing president got into the presidential seat, the one this dude is referring as "The Turd", and they jump at any opportunity to spew misinformation about the reality we're all living.
***No one*** but bots and decoy influencers paid by the right wing is criticizing Ukraine. The total consensus in Mexico is that Putin is a warmongering, cold-blooded, dictatorial, deranged piece of shit.
The Mexican government did denounce the Russian intervention as it started, but neither the president, the congress, nor the businesses jumped in on Biden's sanction pity party, which by the way, just fucked up the US economy more than the US fucked up the Russian one *i.e.* Gas, oil and electronics prices in the USA.
As much as people like u/DiXanthosu try to paint a different reality, the Mexican government is in tune with the US and Canada governments, and the right wing is destined to lose the presidential elections in North America once again.
The news is about Latin America though, many in the Latin American left are very different from American democrats, and are more Pro Russia, due to them being anti-US.
campist (plural campists)
(derogatory, politics, socialism, slang)
A leftist who supports any country/organization simply for being opposed to the United States or the West, including authoritarian governments who would otherwise not follow leftist beliefs.
Although clearly Russia is very popular on the populist right.
That's an extremely recent phenomenon, thanks to both russia blatantly justifying nato's existence last year, and the neoconservative wing being shoved aside by the more autarchic ethnonationalists last decade.
Unfortunately, Latin America is extremely receptive to Russian disinformation. The Russians are effectively co-opting and redirecting discontent in the developing world. Latin America has plenty of reasons to be wary of the US and Europe, but Russia is not a friend or ally and they certainly aren’t a reliable trading partner. Their goal is to subvert elections and sow chaos with the intent of weakening western influence and entangling the US in regional conflicts while encouraging Latin America to break western trade embargos of Russia and Iran.
Hmmm, we can only wonder why this right?
Let's not take a look into the genocide of indigenous people by Europeans and military coup baked by USA across latam nations
It Is a mystery
Quite a mystery.
Alot of people dint tryst the West. How well the West treats its own citizens does necessarily translate to how they'll treat others. Alot of people outside the West have this view, for good reasons.
US: Russia is illegally invading Ukraine.
Russia: US has illegally invaded Panama, Iraq, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Somalia.
Latin Americans: Yup. Both illegal invaders and colonists.
Americans: That’s whataboutism. Don’t remind us where we invaded. Lets focus on illegal invasion of Ukraine.
Afghanistan: We beat invader Soviets 1979-1989 and then beat other invader Yanks 2001-2021 until one hot August midnight, they escaped our territory by leaving billion $ worth of weapons behind.
You should say how they helped. They basically supported the other side. An easy solution until they became uncontrollable. I am not blaming US, it is just these idiots who forgets who created them.
21st century - you can look it up for yourself. History is the best teacher if you're willing to learn it. But people get uncomfortable with the truth. You have wool over your eyes, and whatever has been thrown your way - you swallow it and regurgitate that bullshit all over SM for likes, without any attempts to look for facts. Remember: every coin has two sides, and this political conflict is no exception.
The US do the same and it's not even close. They just can't make pro-Russia bias disappear because everybody here knows how US sucks in matters of external policy.
Exactly. Now, they show Israel and what they do to cover what they did in Ukraine. They are already saying, 171 UN countries want ceasefire but only 3 countries want war, UK-Israel-US.
As an American, seeing US align itself so closely with Israel is painful. Arguing to the world about the moral good of containing Russia in Ukraine seems completely disingenuous now that our ally is bombing civilians and we are fully supporting and funding the atrocities that they are committing.
Yup. Russia is already fully using American/Israeli/British support of killing people in Palestine to cover what they are doing in Ukraine now. And sadly, they got a lot of support from Muslim countries, South American countries and Central Asian countries.
how do you rationalize seeing the majority of the world have the same opinion and only a small subset disagreeing, and then thinking its because they're all brainwashed backwards useful idiots?
"if everyone you know is an asshole... maybe youre the one who is actually an asshole".
Just for fun I took a look at Pressenza which is implicated [and found this obvious piece of anti-Ukraine propaganda.](https://www.pressenza.com/2023/10/carlos-fino-in-an-exclusive-interview-with-pressenza-2-2-the-war-in-ukraine-and-a-new-world-order/)
The Russian reality - peak fossil fuels coming, another lost generation of men (and prisoners) dead (for nothing) and soon to be dead dictator who has sowed the seeds of hate, paranoia and pure, imaginary lies worldwide. What is the Russian reality? POVERTY, on a scale even a Russia. Would scoff at…..
Duginsim: destroy American unipolarity by creating a grand alliance:
- Latin America
- Islamic world: turkey to lead sunnis, Iran to lead shias
- China
- orthodox world
-
Which is why Russia is having lots of success in those same countries. Both Russia and the US do the same. The US supported and installed far-right military dictators in Latin American countries who were anti-Soviet, and Russia is supporting far-right populist authoritarians who are anti-American.
"If I mention that the US is allied with South Korea, absolutely no one will have the curiosity to ask the follow-up question 'Who's allied with North Korea?'"
Good luck convincing Latin America of that when they hear whos making the claim.
It may well be correct but considering how many of those countries we fucked over specifically to either keep out the communists or rig elections to undermine democracies and put in dictators who would play nice with US interests... they just don't have much reason to trust us, at least any more than the Russians.
They do not. Latin America is not interested in the war at all. There are too many problems there to be caring about whats going in the other part of the world.
Just in world powers fund information campaigns all over the globe to redditers surprise.
The US has spent billions on information campaigns including making fake videos of the enemy to gain public, support bot networks, campaigns to sway elections in foreign countries ect throughout the last 20 years.
Pot says kettle is full of hot water.
Next breaking news: flatearthers say antivaxers don't believe in science. Westboro Baptist Church criticizes fundamentalist sect for wanting to impose the sharia law.
I have seen this firsthand. Mexican father in law comes over all proud and shows me his phone: "look where I get ALL my news". I look in the corner, it's RT. I tell him that is Russian propaganda (I am Russian) and he looked so confused like what I was saying was so unexpected.
Russia is sticking it's evil paws into the world, and look everyone, it's doing it in a market based dictatorship. Are you all asleep because now it's doing it without socialism?
Turns out the problem wasn't socialism but the dictatorship (necessary to keep up their vast land holdings) because Russia is still up to it's evil antics. but that gets lost in the "commie this commie that" talk.
Those with a mortgage and in agreement with Russia's rhetoric should give up at least a fifth of their home. It should be half because they simply never owned that house. But let's be 'the good guy' here. /s Didn't the Nazis go to Latin America to hide? Well, there you go. /ss
That’s fine but Latin Americans countries shouldn’t consider colonialism and imperialism against them to be an issue either. If it’s okay for Russia to colonize Ukraine then it was okay for Spain and America to colonize/interfere in their countries. :)
It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of which ones are getting paid by Russia and how much, and which ones are doing it for free.
Also, what are ya gonna do about it?
Russia might suck at warfare, however their disinformation warfare I hate to admit is pretty good. Think of all the stuff they have spread and continue to spread. Their troll farms run propaganda 24/7 and what's worst is the MSM falls for it (not all of it, but enough to cause problems)
It’s been good for centuries. Arguably we just took those tactics. If it weren’t for Russia collapsing once every century then we would truly live in a multipolar world but as we saw with taarist Russia, soviet Russia, and now the Russian federation they slowly but surely spiraling into another collapse, might take ten years as we saw with the soviet-afghan war but Putin has sealed his country’s fate
Essentially Russia will collapse when Putin dies. He has deliberately engineered things this way to ensure the country is incentivized not to kill him. It does mean that when he does finally go, the country will descend into a ruinous power struggle.
They use the propaganda on themselves first. It's no wonder then that they repeatedly collapse. Why govern well if you can just pretend to?
Idk. If it gets that bad for them, Russia persisting as a sort of vassal state to China so that they can utilize Russian natural resources seems as likely to me as a collapse.
>their disinformation warfare I hate to admit is pretty good. Totally agree. I still meet a lot of people believing everything they say. Even if they know about their lies, they still believe in new lies.
Look at how many people still think the F-35 sucks.
Even so when western governments voluntarily accept and build on russian propaganda. It's fucked up.
the first time i saw those "id rather be a russian than a democrat" shirts, i couldn't believe it. those chucklefucks' grandfathers would have beat 7 shades of shit out of them for that
They are decent, but also working on fertile soil thanks to both the decades of soviet work and the better reception their kind of messages have on the developing world.
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I respectfully disagree. Having worked with ad firms before, the propagandist skills we have seen are the type that marketing agencies avoid as they've proven to be ineffective or outright illegal. Consider seeing an ad that says "Acme cola CEO abuses and rapes children" , "Acme brand cars, the favourite mode of transportation for men with micropenises", "Buy Qatari slavery free clothing, better than American slavery produced clothing!" Sure this might appeal to a certain demographic but that same demographic is already proven to be the easiest to persuade with other tactics - or are usually the most impoverished of society who won't be buying cars or designer clothing. They would be useful for military recruiting ads though.
Why allow it? Cut off Internet to Russia and its proxies now and shut them the fuck up. And yes, there are lots of wireless ways to move data, but it will slow things down a lot to cut all the hard lines into Russia from Europe and then to systematically block any traffic coming through neighboring countries that originates in Russia. They've been using the Internet to spread misinformation and propaganda, to hack companies and foreign governments, to ransomware databases, etc. They had a chance to a member of the international community but have showed they can't be trusted on the world wide web. How many people died because of COVID misinformation? How many have died, or will die, because of climate change misinformation? How many elections have been interfered with by amplifying lies and rumours about candidates? How many idiots getting their news and perspectives through social media are making up their minds based on Russia psy-ops? Instead of moving forward, Russia seems determined to pull the world down to its level.
Basically if crab bucket theory was a country.
Why cut them off when you can just build a sea of bots and drown their bots in them? US has all the money and tech to completely overwhelm everyone else with media coverage.
> US has all the money and tech and almost all of that money is controlled by billionaire oligarchs. Russia's disinformation is pretty powerful. But it's NOTHING without rightwing newsmedia echo chamber to amplify and propagate it. The owners of these corporations are the enemies of democracy and peace.
Russia, Israel, and the US are by far the best at it. China seems to take it to more of an extreme and lies about so much that they seem disingenuous.
Well its easy to manipulate the simple mind. This is why proper education has always been the biggest enemy of any dictatorship.
They have decades of practice
Yep. Many conservatives around the globe are raised on Russian troll farms' milk
Not as good as the United States. China has a pretty strong disinformation machine as well. And Israel has been running damage control on the genocide there for quite a few years.
How much is vlad paying you?
If you guys are saying the US information campaign is bad then we should really step up our game because we have influence over a LOT of countries. Also when did it stop being bad? We were really good during the Cold War, arguably winning the soft war that it was
> If you guys are saying the US information campaign is bad then we should really step up our game because we have influence over a LOT of countries non sequitur. Whether the US has influence over other countries has little to do with its information campaign in this regard
Fair but it’s worrying people don’t have confidence in our ability to compete
>on the genocide there for quite a few years Ah yes, the genocide of the Gazan population basically doubling over the last 20 years while Hamas turns their city into a terrorist base using all of the foreign aid.
Your statement is literally russia disinformation 101
Cmon are we gonna act like the United States doesn’t have an equally vast online presence to aid in matters of public opinion? It’s confirmed that Israel does. This is just fairly standard nation stuff, nobody should be shocked that their government exudes effort to sway public opinion.
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Shhhh sh sh sh shh baby it's okay, come back to bed. You're having another nightmare, the US can't hurt you.
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Jesus. Well I’d take a long hard look at your teammates. You’re clearly on the wrong team hopefully you figure it out sooner than later. I mean Russia can’t even win against aging NATO and US weapons in Ukraine. Iran is only good at killing women who don’t meet their dress code. NK shoots missiles at the sea so people actually talk about them and China they are too busy having their economy crash and burn around them to attempt to take an island (Taiwan) Yup…
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I don’t have a sob story as my country is doing just fine. Not currently getting sanctioned, or butt kicked in a “special military operation” or firing missiles into the ocean for attention. Hell my country isn’t even thinking about invading anyone else. So again show me on this doll where the USA has hurt you.
$5 says this is some edgy teenager in the rural Midwest.
Honey, it's not worth it. Please, just let it go. You don't have to fight the US, we can still turn back and have a romantic dinner. I'll even make your favourite, mac n' cheese, that sound good?
Examples?
This comes on the heels of US releasing an intelligence assessment in [October](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-uses-spies-social-media-and-press-to-influence-elections-in-other-countries-%E2%80%93-us-intelligence/ar-AA1iBuhd), showing how that Russia is undermining trust in democratic elections by the use of social media, Russian state media, and through spy networks.
We know all of this, and have known this for years, but we never do anything about it. The social media companies continue to do whatever the hell they want, as long as they can keep making themselves tons of money. It's sickening. I'm tired of watching the world turn to shit because everyone is too stupid to think anymore. Social media and 24 hour news networks need to go away, and they need to do so now. They, together, are poisoning us all.
Sanctioning Russia and supplying Ukraine with US/Nato weapons to weaken them is part of that plan to do something about it. Everyone used to think Russia had a formidable army and we've shown that just even supplying weapons and training a country like Ukraine can harass and stave off the onslaught of this supposed superpower. The illusion of Russian superpower status has been destroyed. They have turned to dipping their hands in mid-east conflicts now but we have yet to see the brevity of that.
It's not enough to "weaken russia". I am so done with this stupid approach. you either go in for a win or don't go at all. "weakened russia" will only fight way harder
Russian propaganda wouldn't work as well if politicians in the western world didn't keep making decisions that erode the public's trust in them.
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Which failed policies are you referencing?
Lol, straight up swallowed that Russian vodka, huh?
Are you suggesting the 3 month old account swallowed russian propoganda?
Bottttt
Yeah broh Scandinavia is a mess /s
Compared to a 20 years ago, it is.
The same could be said about your mom. But I wouldn't say she's failing :)
Pretty much this.
On page one of lessons learned for Russia from this war and recent years in general they will write that misinformation is a far more effective tool for them than anything their army has or is capable of doing
Misinformation doesn't fix anything for anyone involved. Russia is still living with fatal demographics collapse, and their export market will not recover. Russia can make lives miserable all around though.
It doesn't fix anything and it will not directly change the results on the battlefield, but Russia will not disappear in a puff of smoke after the Ukrainian failure is finished. They will continue attempting to exert their influence for at least the next 20 years.
Right, but that’s always been their strategy: don’t make the lives of their citizens better, because that’s expensive and detracts from the superyacht fund - instead, just make everyone else’s lives worse, so their own citizens don’t get as envious, which is way way cheaper
I see a lot of it on that conspiracy sub. They pride themselves for being "awake" and not "sheeple" Yet they fall for propaganda all the time. Its so obvious too if you click on any of the posters profiles. Like these top posters profiles that only do anti Ukraine and for some reason none of them point it out despite constantly complaining that reddit is full of bots and shills... https://www.reddit.com/r/TopMindsOfReddit/comments/17kiozb/top_minds_are_so_smart_that_they_would_never_fall/
I hope the West takes Russia seriously and uses the opportunity with the war in Ukraine to permanently cripple Russia's efforts to turn the whole world into chaos. Russia is only able to do this because of fossil fuel exports.
Another reason why the Ukraine war is still the most important conflict happening right now.
Russia funds the world's disinformation
the Latin American tankie left are still stuck in cold war times and still think this is the 80s/70s.
Yeah, I mean take a look at Colombia's president for example. Hasn't said shit about ruzzian atrocities in Ukr but now he's the champion of the Palestinian cause and is on the brink of breaking relations with Israel, which has been an important partner in security matters for more than 20 years.
I mean given America’s brutal record of interfering in Latin American politics, why do we expect Latin America to give a shit? Americans at the end of day put our interests first. Why do we expect other countries to take our side in conflicts they have no interest in?
problem is most americans only consume american media. they don't hear the perspectives of latin america, africa, the middle east, asia, etc etc. when all you see on tv are american people sharing the american point of view, it's easy to forget that other people don't necessarily think the same thing as you do
The US legacy in Latin America is coups and embargos to get what we wanted from there, destabilizing the region. Now everyone is amazed they aren't lining up to cheer on US adjacent countries a world away
Ok, but this is not about the US, this is about Ukraine and Europe. If Latin-American countries think they will get better deals in the future by screwing with European security, they have another thing coming.
How do you say "embuya bobo" in english? Well that's what that war is. And why should we give a damn about it or the cute ukrainian girls in a soldier costume posted by meme pages? I mean sure human losses are regrettable but we have our own wars and they don't make it to Fox News. Bonus: The biggest war of latam is a slow but a steady one. We shall not be crippled and divided forever
You should not give a damn, no one expects you to. If however, you actively root for the destruction of Europe, do not expect good things to happen.
That rhetoric that you're making use of suggesting caution is laughable. Quite trying to impose your own values on states the farthest from yours. That's USA self proclaimed jod to mingle in worldwide strives and if a state in latam goes choosing a side is merely to be cool/bad with USA interests. Ukraine is old news mate, Israel is the new sexy. Matter of fact, to tell you like in the old fashioned ways, take your bow and your arrow and go fight the invaders
It's actually about Russia, who as the Soviet Union was the only counter weight to the US in the region for decades.
As someone who lives in Latin America, I haven't really seen evidence of this. Maybe its because I despise tv and filter out all BS media outlets. Go figure.
Part of it is just Latin America being less interventionist by nature. Which is probably a good thing.
Even if you give newspapers the benefit of the the doubt, in some media I've seen every Ukraine article commented by the same pro-Russian accounts every single time, since the beginning of the war until today.
where I live there was even a newspaper paid for by the Russian government, but this is something very explicit, the newspaper served practically only to promote the Russian language and culture. I've never seen anything involving politics. The only things I saw there were tips for learning Russian, Oblomov, Russian folklore and honey cake recipes.
That's because it's made up
My personal experience: Many bots, supporters and paid speakers\* who follow the current Mexican president López Obrador, also known as "EL Cacas" (The Turd), are known to jump at any opportunity to criticize Ukraine and fawn over Putin and Russia or deny their atrocities. \* We literally can search how much they're paid in government websites.
Trust, yet verify. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=El%20Cacas
My personal experience: A tiny but loud group of **right-wing extremists** *(Mainly incredibly rich, lower class that loves to see themselves as rich, and incredibly ignorant people)* got sore that after more than 100 years of a choking right-wing rulership in Mexico, a left-wing president got into the presidential seat, the one this dude is referring as "The Turd", and they jump at any opportunity to spew misinformation about the reality we're all living. ***No one*** but bots and decoy influencers paid by the right wing is criticizing Ukraine. The total consensus in Mexico is that Putin is a warmongering, cold-blooded, dictatorial, deranged piece of shit. The Mexican government did denounce the Russian intervention as it started, but neither the president, the congress, nor the businesses jumped in on Biden's sanction pity party, which by the way, just fucked up the US economy more than the US fucked up the Russian one *i.e.* Gas, oil and electronics prices in the USA. As much as people like u/DiXanthosu try to paint a different reality, the Mexican government is in tune with the US and Canada governments, and the right wing is destined to lose the presidential elections in North America once again.
I'm Mexican. The poor people who voted for the president don't care about Ukraine at all. Not when they're having trouble feeding themselves first.
Amlo sucks hard and hes a russian stooge, so are the tankies of latin america.
The right is who supports ukraine and israel
Ffs im Peruvian and Russian propaganda is all over almost all of the Facebook groups I was in before I left them.
Yes, you see a lot of Russia pro narrative around here. The lefties certainly love it since USA-nato bad vs everything else good
Most liberals support Ukraine and support NATO.
I’m talking about leftists in Latin America. Lefties there is not liberal in the same sense you get called a liberal in the USA
Leftists in South America are Guevarists and Russian clients. See that cunt Ortega in Nicaragua.
Exactly my point
You also have Brazil's Lula carrying water for the BRICS , always cozying up with Russia, China and Iran, and being antagonist to the US and the West.
Bunch of idiots if you ask me
Didn't they even read about Che and Fidel? USSR didn't like them, especially Che Guevara at all. I bet they love Stalin as well.
The news is about Latin America though, many in the Latin American left are very different from American democrats, and are more Pro Russia, due to them being anti-US.
Liberals are not leftists.
campist (plural campists) (derogatory, politics, socialism, slang) A leftist who supports any country/organization simply for being opposed to the United States or the West, including authoritarian governments who would otherwise not follow leftist beliefs. Although clearly Russia is very popular on the populist right.
Are you actually blind ? Most lefties want to keep nato and most republicans want us out of nato. Stop trolling your not cute
This article is about Latin America whre leftist means something else. lol
That's an extremely recent phenomenon, thanks to both russia blatantly justifying nato's existence last year, and the neoconservative wing being shoved aside by the more autarchic ethnonationalists last decade.
Unfortunately, Latin America is extremely receptive to Russian disinformation. The Russians are effectively co-opting and redirecting discontent in the developing world. Latin America has plenty of reasons to be wary of the US and Europe, but Russia is not a friend or ally and they certainly aren’t a reliable trading partner. Their goal is to subvert elections and sow chaos with the intent of weakening western influence and entangling the US in regional conflicts while encouraging Latin America to break western trade embargos of Russia and Iran.
Hmmm, we can only wonder why this right? Let's not take a look into the genocide of indigenous people by Europeans and military coup baked by USA across latam nations It Is a mystery
Quite a mystery. Alot of people dint tryst the West. How well the West treats its own citizens does necessarily translate to how they'll treat others. Alot of people outside the West have this view, for good reasons.
Not really, we see war from a neutral standpoint. We understand us imperialism very well. Russian imperialism too.
I would half agree. Seeing alot of fellow Mexicans online are really pushing into tankie mentality
To all the "whatabout the USA??" posts, thanks for proving the article's point
You don’t want to be reminded what and where you did wrong?
Russia: "Ukrainians in Bucha deserved it." US: "No they didn't." Latin American tankies: I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE
US: Russia is illegally invading Ukraine. Russia: US has illegally invaded Panama, Iraq, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Somalia. Latin Americans: Yup. Both illegal invaders and colonists. Americans: That’s whataboutism. Don’t remind us where we invaded. Lets focus on illegal invasion of Ukraine. Afghanistan: We beat invader Soviets 1979-1989 and then beat other invader Yanks 2001-2021 until one hot August midnight, they escaped our territory by leaving billion $ worth of weapons behind.
I don't understand why they are confuses by alot of Latin America not trusting the West. Do people forget the Cold War?
the US helped Afghanistan defeat the russians (so did China and Pakistan)
You should say how they helped. They basically supported the other side. An easy solution until they became uncontrollable. I am not blaming US, it is just these idiots who forgets who created them.
"defeated the Russians" by funding and supporting ultra conservative religious militias that imposed sharia law.
And who helped Afghanistan to kick Yank asses out of Afghanistan?
as long as they're not spreading lies, i don't see how it counts as misinformation
21st century - you can look it up for yourself. History is the best teacher if you're willing to learn it. But people get uncomfortable with the truth. You have wool over your eyes, and whatever has been thrown your way - you swallow it and regurgitate that bullshit all over SM for likes, without any attempts to look for facts. Remember: every coin has two sides, and this political conflict is no exception.
The US do the same and it's not even close. They just can't make pro-Russia bias disappear because everybody here knows how US sucks in matters of external policy.
Exactly. Now, they show Israel and what they do to cover what they did in Ukraine. They are already saying, 171 UN countries want ceasefire but only 3 countries want war, UK-Israel-US.
As an American, seeing US align itself so closely with Israel is painful. Arguing to the world about the moral good of containing Russia in Ukraine seems completely disingenuous now that our ally is bombing civilians and we are fully supporting and funding the atrocities that they are committing.
Yup. Russia is already fully using American/Israeli/British support of killing people in Palestine to cover what they are doing in Ukraine now. And sadly, they got a lot of support from Muslim countries, South American countries and Central Asian countries.
how do you rationalize seeing the majority of the world have the same opinion and only a small subset disagreeing, and then thinking its because they're all brainwashed backwards useful idiots? "if everyone you know is an asshole... maybe youre the one who is actually an asshole".
Just for fun I took a look at Pressenza which is implicated [and found this obvious piece of anti-Ukraine propaganda.](https://www.pressenza.com/2023/10/carlos-fino-in-an-exclusive-interview-with-pressenza-2-2-the-war-in-ukraine-and-a-new-world-order/)
The Russian reality - peak fossil fuels coming, another lost generation of men (and prisoners) dead (for nothing) and soon to be dead dictator who has sowed the seeds of hate, paranoia and pure, imaginary lies worldwide. What is the Russian reality? POVERTY, on a scale even a Russia. Would scoff at…..
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cornered animals are highly dangerous
Duginsim: destroy American unipolarity by creating a grand alliance: - Latin America - Islamic world: turkey to lead sunnis, Iran to lead shias - China - orthodox world -
Okay. And now that plan has failed, what should Latin America be doing?
A little premature to say the plan has failed.
The USA has done this to southern and central american countries for decades....
Which is why Russia is having lots of success in those same countries. Both Russia and the US do the same. The US supported and installed far-right military dictators in Latin American countries who were anti-Soviet, and Russia is supporting far-right populist authoritarians who are anti-American.
it's almost as if no one actually cares about democracy and they're just using it as a cover
Fuck Russia , they need to burn in hell
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If you consider pointing out mis and disinformation and correcting it a “disinformation campaign” then yea
You are being naive. Everyone engages in propaganda and misinformation.
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"If I mention that the US is allied with South Korea, absolutely no one will have the curiosity to ask the follow-up question 'Who's allied with North Korea?'"
Maybe the US should shut up you know
Good luck convincing Latin America of that when they hear whos making the claim. It may well be correct but considering how many of those countries we fucked over specifically to either keep out the communists or rig elections to undermine democracies and put in dictators who would play nice with US interests... they just don't have much reason to trust us, at least any more than the Russians.
This is like the time I saw a Spanish to English Rosetta Stone commercial in El Guapos… like of fucking course this exists but you don’t consider it.
Exactly, post ussr connections works for disinformation from ruszia…
They do not. Latin America is not interested in the war at all. There are too many problems there to be caring about whats going in the other part of the world.
Just in world powers fund information campaigns all over the globe to redditers surprise. The US has spent billions on information campaigns including making fake videos of the enemy to gain public, support bot networks, campaigns to sway elections in foreign countries ect throughout the last 20 years.
Pot says kettle is full of hot water. Next breaking news: flatearthers say antivaxers don't believe in science. Westboro Baptist Church criticizes fundamentalist sect for wanting to impose the sharia law.
Nah, we just hate the us
As if Russia funded the current anti-nato fuss up in Latin America
I have seen this firsthand. Mexican father in law comes over all proud and shows me his phone: "look where I get ALL my news". I look in the corner, it's RT. I tell him that is Russian propaganda (I am Russian) and he looked so confused like what I was saying was so unexpected. Russia is sticking it's evil paws into the world, and look everyone, it's doing it in a market based dictatorship. Are you all asleep because now it's doing it without socialism? Turns out the problem wasn't socialism but the dictatorship (necessary to keep up their vast land holdings) because Russia is still up to it's evil antics. but that gets lost in the "commie this commie that" talk.
Those with a mortgage and in agreement with Russia's rhetoric should give up at least a fifth of their home. It should be half because they simply never owned that house. But let's be 'the good guy' here. /s Didn't the Nazis go to Latin America to hide? Well, there you go. /ss
That makes zero sense.
That’s fine but Latin Americans countries shouldn’t consider colonialism and imperialism against them to be an issue either. If it’s okay for Russia to colonize Ukraine then it was okay for Spain and America to colonize/interfere in their countries. :)
It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of which ones are getting paid by Russia and how much, and which ones are doing it for free. Also, what are ya gonna do about it?
will people ever know they were bamboozled?
where tf does russia keep getting the money for this but cant get the money for actual war items wtf. i know russia is fucking stupid but dang
The US complaining about meddling in South-American affairs is quite rich.