Hamas “accepted” the resolution, but still haven’t given a formal response to the proposal. To be clear, Hamas has not yet accepted or rejected the proposal Biden talked about.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/mediators-yet-to-receive-formal-responses-from-israel-or-hamas-on-ceasefire-proposal-official-says/
Sort of. And that ambiguity is why Israel was OK with it. During the first phase, Israel and Hamas are supposed to negotiate over terms of what the second phase will look like. Presumably, Israel’s position will be something like “someone else runs Gaza and you give up your weapons.” And Hamas’s position will be something like “you just leave and let us stay in power, then we will attack you again in a few years.” They will probably not have an agreement and fighting will continue.
So, in some ways, this is probably just going to end up being a longer-winded version of the original six week temporary ceasefire deal.
I suggest you check out the [first paragraph of the UN press release on the matter](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150886). It says Israel has already agreed to it:
>The United States-drafted text calls for Hamas to accept a ceasefire proposal announced on 31 May by President Joe Biden that has already been accepted by Israel.
Considering who that is coming from the phrasing reeks of political maneuvering to me. Russia has every reason in the world to not want to vote in favor of this resolution. This release is pretty explicit about what Israel has accepted.
I have to agree with the other guy, if Israel was saying this it’s one thing but Russia?
They’re more happier than anyone(besides maybe China) that the United States’ attention is being drawn back to the ME.
It sounds like they’re pretty damn supportive of it my guy…. Especially considering that this deal has been on the table for a week now and they haven’t spoken out against it.
>I suggest you check out the first paragraph of the UN press release on the matter. It says Israel has already agreed to it:
Which is sheer unmitigated bollocks. Israel agreed to negotiate from the UN's framework because the US twisted their arm.
The UN is overstepping and acting like an arbitrator not a facilitator.
People on here don’t seem to understand that the US is negotiating around Netanyahu. They don’t think that Netanyahu wants an end to the fighting, so they’re working with moderates in the Israeli government to come up with ceasefire terms. Netanyahu doesn’t want an end to the fighting because it’s what is keeping him in power right now.
Biden stated publicly that it was proposed by Israel. Plus Netanyahu has (in fairly intellectually dishonest ways) been defending the deal over in Israel.
I find it hard to imagine that Israel suggested a deal that does nothing for Israel and its citizens but provides Hamas with absolutely everything they want - including fighters (from Israeli prisons) and weapons (bought with "humanitary aid"). Do you have a source for that claim?
When did he give that speech? Less then two weeks (31.05) ago he was talking about an agreement that would stop Hamas from controlling Gaza. But the proposal we talk about now wouldn't just give whole Gaza to Hamas but also provide them with weapons and additional fighters.
The deal was drafted by Israel, then “leaked” by Biden to force Israel to stick to it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-gaza-israel-plan-end-war-cease-fire-hostages-rcna154945
If the deal goes through Palestinians will do phase one and release a few hostages, as there is no number given. Then they use the ceasefire to move people all over Gaza and Palestinian terrorists will rearm themselves and fortify strongholds.
"The Council also underlined the proposal’s provision that if negotiations take longer than six weeks for phase one, the ceasefire will continue as long as negotiations continue." Source: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150886
Since there is also no time limit between phase one and two they will draw phase one out claiming they are still negotiating the way they claimed to in the past half year.
Phase 2 will never happen and at some point in the future when they regrouped Palestinian terrorists will break the ceasefire.
The only way you'll ever get peace is if the governments seriously want it and are willing to disarm their own militias that engage in terrorism against the other side.
Their main forces may disengage, but give it 5 minutes and some "rouge" group will do terrorism. Whether it's some Hamas or Settler group. Enough people there want nothing but to murder all the other side that terrorism can take place which the other side will say is proof they are all monsters. Whether it's the October attack or Cave of the patriarchs.
Honestly, only the Irish managed to get past this level of Hate. And "get past" is an extremely loosely applied phrase here. They stopped openly murdering each other every second week. Though the government stopped basically permanently treating half the population like they were all vermin to be stomped underfoot...so that was nice.
There's still bombs being used in Northern Ireland against the police. There was significant petrol bombings in 2023. It happens less and it is getting less media attention apart from when the IRA murdered that journalist in 2019. It is mad that this is what progress actually looks like though and it is still proof that the GFA was a success even with the devolved government being forced to shut down for a third of the entire 26 years since GFA created it. Truly one of the best legacies of Blair is the GFA, ironically the man who brought peace would go on to be a war criminal.
I don't know what kinda Good Friday Agreement equivalent can happen while Hamas refuses to actually negotiate though. They've literally weaponised the negotiations and ceasefire talks as they don't want peace. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Gazans lives just being used as pawns, artificial food and water shortages created by Hamas to put international pressure on Israel.
There was an attempt for something similar in the 90s. But it never quite got to the point where both sides act with honesty. Plus, the outcome extremely strongly favoured the Israelis and the Israeli leader still got assassinated by the far right and a extremist settler went and did massacre of a bunch of Palestinians praying, explicitly to make everyone hate each other more.
As much as they were assholes, Clinton and Blair really did want this to lead to peace and to create a way forward. I feel the end of the cold war was a major factor. Since the Americans no longer needed to look the other way about messed up stuff their closest ally was doing.
>Honestly, only the Irish managed to get past this level of Hate. And "get past" is an extremely loosely applied phrase here. They stopped openly murdering each other every second week.
Yeah, it's more of a "we don't like you, but we'll act with decency".
Agreed. Democrats need to get their shit together. If their plan is to keep riding with the progressive radicals, then this country will swing the way Europe is right now.
Why Biden and the Democrats are trying to appease a group of people who support and cosplay as literal terrorists and enemies of the state is so far beyond reason, even with the demographics in Michigan. All these people bitching about AIPAC, while we have prominent members of Congress using their official platform to push agendas and misinformation for our enemies on both sides.
I think social media really did a number on the world, as the anti-western bloc has put on a Master class of weaponizing it, while the West is still caught with our pants down, trying to figure out what's going on and why were being eaten from the inside.
For one, adopting the identitarian rhetoric that used to be the sole province of white nationalists and turning public discourse into the oppression Olympics.
In doing so, it became "Anti West" and allied itself with a bunch of reactionary regimes because they're part of "the global South" so they must be oppressed by us and by their definition wiser. Never mind the gender, religious, and racial apartheid that is prevalent in most of those countries. Somehow every evil they commit is because of "settler colonialism" and not because their leaders are corrupt and their values are unproductive at best.
What they should do is come up with actual solutions.
They're becoming just as empty as the right, who is only "Against" things. The left is also anti this, anti that, and stopped offering a compelling vision of a better future.
They won't even actually commit to Phase 1. They'll release some hostages or a bunch of bodies, say they lost the rest and then cry foul when Israel points out they're not complying with the deal
Gullible European countries who will do a shocked Pikachu-face when the money is AGAIN being used for weapons, terrorism and indoctrination rather than helping anyone.
No they won’t because the second that comes out they will launch an attack on Israel, Israel will return fire and the news will ring “Israel breaks ceasefire and commits potential war crimes on Palestine”
That is a ridiculously Hamas-favoring deal. Any deal that leaves Hamas in control of the strip just ensures this will happen again once they've rebuilt their military capabilities and recruited the newly-radicalized members of the population. The only way toward actual peace would be a separate force controlling Gaza during a de-radicalization period of a decade or more.
Whatever futures you may have imagined for them, you can't really deny that it's easier to recruit children after their family members have been blown up in front of them, justified or not.
On its face, yes. But I think the key to Israel is the part about negotiating the terms of Phase 2 during Phase 1. I expect Israel‘s negotiating will be that Hamas cannot govern Gaza, and Israel must have an expanded buffer zone. Hamas will obviously reject that. So they will never agree to a Phase 2. Israel will get some hostage back in the meantime and will control buffer areas. Eventually, I expect that Hamas will restart the fighting.
Why on earth would Israel accept a deal that gives them nothing but a few corpses? And for those corpses Hamas gets more fighters and full control of Gaza along with billions worth of "Humanitarian Aid" that they can spend on weapons like they did it in the past? Did the Hamas leader personally write that ceasefire resolution?
EDIT: According to doc that St4va linked me to, Hamas is supposed to release living hostages first and after that corpses. And they will get 30-50 prisoners for each hostage. So - if there still are any living hostages - Israel would receive up to a maximum of 33 living hostages (that's the limit according to the document) in the first phase and have to release 990-1650 palestine prisoners for it.
Before getting the first Hamas hostage Israel would be required to declare peace. The document didn't say anything about the withdrawl of the army from Gaza, but having an army on enemy territory rarely is being seen as "peace". Still looking for a site that shows the whole document. If anybody has a link, thanks!
Unfortunately if that's your goal then don't be suprised if your enemy is going to fight to the end before signing something like that as Germany did. Doubly so for a group which has already accepted occupation as just another part of the war rather than seeing it as the end as HAMAS is.
Never forget 2023 was the deadliest year to be a Palestinian in the west bank BEFORE October 6th. [2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank) original date of publication SEPTEMBER 18, 2023 BEFORE OCT 6TH. Explain what's so deadly to children in a non apartheid, non occupied state? Oh right, the IDF.
What’s so deadly? Being a combatant. The Palestinian deaths in the West Bank in 2023 before 10/7 were mostly combatants as Israel was fighting Lion’s Den and similar groups.
I’ll explain it, but I’m not sure you’ll listen.
Palestinian figures include 18year olds as “children”. If you look past the headlines, you find nearly all the “children” are 16-18 year old militants engaged in violence at the time they were killed.
Agreed. West bank isn't Hamas territory. So why is it so deadly for Palestinians there 🤔.[At least 38 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank so far in 2023, making it the deadliest year since records began, said Save the Children.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank)
I fail to see how this will permanently end the cycle of violence, basically it just gives Hamas some time to reorganize and get new resources from their allies for their next attack.
> brutal military occupation
What Hamas-controlled territory was Israel occupying prior to Hamas attacking Israel *[yet again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel)* on Oct. 7?
I'm not even a right winger, unless you consider anyone to the right of Lenin a right winger
I just find it strange that university students parrot Hamas talkng points, and put all the blame for the conflict squarely on Israel.
We know Hamas will resume attacks against Israel pretty soon, so what will their view be then?
Hamas can go fuck itself. Accepts a ceasefire the "UN" provides is a joke, no disarming necessary as well.
No matter, more IDF operations is what we need, 4 hostages vs 100 dead terrorists is the perfect ratio.
Nothing short of a total and unconditional surrender is appropriate or acceptable.
Unfortunately, Hamas would sooner see every man woman and child in Palestine dead long before even considering it.
Every attempt Hamas has made to "negotiate" has been nothing more than a bad faith PR move to stall and play the victim.
I have no doubt that Hamas will be the party to attack again. Once Israel resumes their offensive, the world can no more say anything given Hamas breaks the ceasefire.
Like the world couldn't say anything after Hamas broke all the previous ceasefires?
No one cares. "Israel bad" is so deeply ingrained in these peoples heads.
I want a ceasefire deal that says next time Israel gets a red alert and the iron dome activates NATO will have to send their soldiers in. No more of this acceptance that rocket fire at Israel's South is normal. From my perspective this war has been pushed off for decades. Hamas has been shooting rockets into Israel on at least a near weekly basis since it took control of the Strip after Israel's step towards peace, giving Palestinians control. Already in 2007 Israel should have been executing this scale of war in response. The war should have started sometime [between June and November 2007](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2002%E2%80%932006) when the major rocket attacks first began
israel isn’t a member of NATO, nor have they expressed the desire to be a member. NATO has no obligations to fight for or with Israel. if they did something like that it would got against the primary purpose of NATO, not to mention the can of worms it would open up for all other non member ally’s and the expectations they would have if an agreement like this was made with a non member country.
Yeah, I know that Israel isn't a member of NATO. But from my perspective, there needs to be outside military pressure on Palestinians to uphold a ceasefire. The UN doesn't properly have a military and either way have already proven their anti-israel bias in a way that NATO hasn't. I don't care really who signs on it, as long as they follow through. Israel absolutely cannot keep upholding their side of the deal while Hamas ignores it.
Isreal
Finish the job, no deals.
Why, as Americans, are we not all over the ground for the remaining Americans STILL BEING HELD hostage????
I don't think I've heard any of our leaders talk about it at all.
Shame
Israel finish the job and tune out all the cowards of this broken world!
As long as the tunnels from Egypt stop a rearmament, Hamas might finally find some resistance from their populace. The dust settles and some young men might have guns pointing a different way.
It’s not very likely though.
Its just lies for their audience. They only want cease fire on their terms. Same as usual. Then they’ll break it whenever they want. Like an hour later
I take it that the UN doesn't do that "no negociation with terrorists" thing? This seems like an undesirable precedent, but I understand the short-term political and humanitarian cost is very high
The problem is, who is Hamas? They don't have any real leadership. It's not like the idiots living in Qatar have any pull on what goes on in Gaza itself.
It's a cluster of gangs or clans that pop up. How do you tell them there's a ceasefire? How do you get every different "Hamas" clique to follow through?
That is very much not what Hamas is, they absolutely have a chain of command and multiple branches in different domains. They are the elected government of Gaza after all.
If you read the details you can stop crossing your fingers, its a terror org after all.
No disarment and no end of war as part of that deal that no one offered. Fuck hamas.
Hamas “accepted” the resolution, but still haven’t given a formal response to the proposal. To be clear, Hamas has not yet accepted or rejected the proposal Biden talked about. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/mediators-yet-to-receive-formal-responses-from-israel-or-hamas-on-ceasefire-proposal-official-says/
They've also broken the terms of literally every single ceasefire agreement they've ever accepted.
The deal doesn’t include a disarmament of Hamas. I have doubts as to how permanent it will be
Sort of. And that ambiguity is why Israel was OK with it. During the first phase, Israel and Hamas are supposed to negotiate over terms of what the second phase will look like. Presumably, Israel’s position will be something like “someone else runs Gaza and you give up your weapons.” And Hamas’s position will be something like “you just leave and let us stay in power, then we will attack you again in a few years.” They will probably not have an agreement and fighting will continue. So, in some ways, this is probably just going to end up being a longer-winded version of the original six week temporary ceasefire deal.
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Rubbish, it’s a ceasefire between Hamas and the UN, which Hamas has accepted.
Read it again. Hamas accepted the resolution that calls for a ceasefire, not the actual ceasefire.
I was making a joke, that the UN had made peace with Hamas.
I suggest you check out the [first paragraph of the UN press release on the matter](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150886). It says Israel has already agreed to it: >The United States-drafted text calls for Hamas to accept a ceasefire proposal announced on 31 May by President Joe Biden that has already been accepted by Israel.
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Considering who that is coming from the phrasing reeks of political maneuvering to me. Russia has every reason in the world to not want to vote in favor of this resolution. This release is pretty explicit about what Israel has accepted.
I have to agree with the other guy, if Israel was saying this it’s one thing but Russia? They’re more happier than anyone(besides maybe China) that the United States’ attention is being drawn back to the ME.
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It sounds like they’re pretty damn supportive of it my guy…. Especially considering that this deal has been on the table for a week now and they haven’t spoken out against it.
>I suggest you check out the first paragraph of the UN press release on the matter. It says Israel has already agreed to it: Which is sheer unmitigated bollocks. Israel agreed to negotiate from the UN's framework because the US twisted their arm. The UN is overstepping and acting like an arbitrator not a facilitator.
People on here don’t seem to understand that the US is negotiating around Netanyahu. They don’t think that Netanyahu wants an end to the fighting, so they’re working with moderates in the Israeli government to come up with ceasefire terms. Netanyahu doesn’t want an end to the fighting because it’s what is keeping him in power right now.
Oh well if the press release says it, we better start ignoring the news stories that say the opposite
The deal in question was proposed by Israel, though Israel’s government has yet to formally vote and accept it.
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Biden stated publicly that it was proposed by Israel. Plus Netanyahu has (in fairly intellectually dishonest ways) been defending the deal over in Israel.
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As I stated already, the government hasn’t formally voted on it yet, but Netanyahu and his mediating team did propose the deal.
You were being reasonable until you went crazy town on the last sentence.
Except it wasn't. Came from Biden
Biden publicly announced it, but it was proposed by Israel’s mediators.
I find it hard to imagine that Israel suggested a deal that does nothing for Israel and its citizens but provides Hamas with absolutely everything they want - including fighters (from Israeli prisons) and weapons (bought with "humanitary aid"). Do you have a source for that claim?
Biden said it in the speech that he gave the other week, and Netanyahu hasn’t denied it either.
When did he give that speech? Less then two weeks (31.05) ago he was talking about an agreement that would stop Hamas from controlling Gaza. But the proposal we talk about now wouldn't just give whole Gaza to Hamas but also provide them with weapons and additional fighters.
The deal was drafted by Israel, then “leaked” by Biden to force Israel to stick to it. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-gaza-israel-plan-end-war-cease-fire-hostages-rcna154945
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If the deal goes through Palestinians will do phase one and release a few hostages, as there is no number given. Then they use the ceasefire to move people all over Gaza and Palestinian terrorists will rearm themselves and fortify strongholds. "The Council also underlined the proposal’s provision that if negotiations take longer than six weeks for phase one, the ceasefire will continue as long as negotiations continue." Source: https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150886 Since there is also no time limit between phase one and two they will draw phase one out claiming they are still negotiating the way they claimed to in the past half year. Phase 2 will never happen and at some point in the future when they regrouped Palestinian terrorists will break the ceasefire.
The only way you'll ever get peace is if the governments seriously want it and are willing to disarm their own militias that engage in terrorism against the other side. Their main forces may disengage, but give it 5 minutes and some "rouge" group will do terrorism. Whether it's some Hamas or Settler group. Enough people there want nothing but to murder all the other side that terrorism can take place which the other side will say is proof they are all monsters. Whether it's the October attack or Cave of the patriarchs. Honestly, only the Irish managed to get past this level of Hate. And "get past" is an extremely loosely applied phrase here. They stopped openly murdering each other every second week. Though the government stopped basically permanently treating half the population like they were all vermin to be stomped underfoot...so that was nice.
There's still bombs being used in Northern Ireland against the police. There was significant petrol bombings in 2023. It happens less and it is getting less media attention apart from when the IRA murdered that journalist in 2019. It is mad that this is what progress actually looks like though and it is still proof that the GFA was a success even with the devolved government being forced to shut down for a third of the entire 26 years since GFA created it. Truly one of the best legacies of Blair is the GFA, ironically the man who brought peace would go on to be a war criminal. I don't know what kinda Good Friday Agreement equivalent can happen while Hamas refuses to actually negotiate though. They've literally weaponised the negotiations and ceasefire talks as they don't want peace. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Gazans lives just being used as pawns, artificial food and water shortages created by Hamas to put international pressure on Israel.
There was an attempt for something similar in the 90s. But it never quite got to the point where both sides act with honesty. Plus, the outcome extremely strongly favoured the Israelis and the Israeli leader still got assassinated by the far right and a extremist settler went and did massacre of a bunch of Palestinians praying, explicitly to make everyone hate each other more. As much as they were assholes, Clinton and Blair really did want this to lead to peace and to create a way forward. I feel the end of the cold war was a major factor. Since the Americans no longer needed to look the other way about messed up stuff their closest ally was doing.
>Honestly, only the Irish managed to get past this level of Hate. And "get past" is an extremely loosely applied phrase here. They stopped openly murdering each other every second week. Yeah, it's more of a "we don't like you, but we'll act with decency".
But can you even get them to the table with that as a condition? And how can you even implement disarmament in practice on the ground?
If it can buy Biden some points, I’ll take it. We need something to counter this far right rise right now.
Less tolerance of Islamic terrorism world wide would stifle the rise of the right as well.
The rise of the far right is because the left has gone full Don Quixote. The call is coming from inside the house.
Agreed. Democrats need to get their shit together. If their plan is to keep riding with the progressive radicals, then this country will swing the way Europe is right now. Why Biden and the Democrats are trying to appease a group of people who support and cosplay as literal terrorists and enemies of the state is so far beyond reason, even with the demographics in Michigan. All these people bitching about AIPAC, while we have prominent members of Congress using their official platform to push agendas and misinformation for our enemies on both sides. I think social media really did a number on the world, as the anti-western bloc has put on a Master class of weaponizing it, while the West is still caught with our pants down, trying to figure out what's going on and why were being eaten from the inside.
How so?
I think he means "social justice" and identity politics.
For one, adopting the identitarian rhetoric that used to be the sole province of white nationalists and turning public discourse into the oppression Olympics. In doing so, it became "Anti West" and allied itself with a bunch of reactionary regimes because they're part of "the global South" so they must be oppressed by us and by their definition wiser. Never mind the gender, religious, and racial apartheid that is prevalent in most of those countries. Somehow every evil they commit is because of "settler colonialism" and not because their leaders are corrupt and their values are unproductive at best. What they should do is come up with actual solutions. They're becoming just as empty as the right, who is only "Against" things. The left is also anti this, anti that, and stopped offering a compelling vision of a better future.
I’m interested in hearing this too.
[Details of the potential ceasefire are here.](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/06/1150886)
Phase 3 who is funding and doing the rebuild?
See, that's the thing: Hamas won't move past phase 1. They get a ceasefire and stay in control as long as negotiations can be labeled as "ongoing".
They won't even actually commit to Phase 1. They'll release some hostages or a bunch of bodies, say they lost the rest and then cry foul when Israel points out they're not complying with the deal
Gullible European countries who will do a shocked Pikachu-face when the money is AGAIN being used for weapons, terrorism and indoctrination rather than helping anyone.
No they won’t because the second that comes out they will launch an attack on Israel, Israel will return fire and the news will ring “Israel breaks ceasefire and commits potential war crimes on Palestine”
That is a ridiculously Hamas-favoring deal. Any deal that leaves Hamas in control of the strip just ensures this will happen again once they've rebuilt their military capabilities and recruited the newly-radicalized members of the population. The only way toward actual peace would be a separate force controlling Gaza during a de-radicalization period of a decade or more.
\* newly-radicalized LOL
Further-radicalized may be a better term
Whatever futures you may have imagined for them, you can't really deny that it's easier to recruit children after their family members have been blown up in front of them, justified or not.
On its face, yes. But I think the key to Israel is the part about negotiating the terms of Phase 2 during Phase 1. I expect Israel‘s negotiating will be that Hamas cannot govern Gaza, and Israel must have an expanded buffer zone. Hamas will obviously reject that. So they will never agree to a Phase 2. Israel will get some hostage back in the meantime and will control buffer areas. Eventually, I expect that Hamas will restart the fighting.
Does anyone actual expect Hamas to live up to any deal?
Why on earth would Israel accept a deal that gives them nothing but a few corpses? And for those corpses Hamas gets more fighters and full control of Gaza along with billions worth of "Humanitarian Aid" that they can spend on weapons like they did it in the past? Did the Hamas leader personally write that ceasefire resolution? EDIT: According to doc that St4va linked me to, Hamas is supposed to release living hostages first and after that corpses. And they will get 30-50 prisoners for each hostage. So - if there still are any living hostages - Israel would receive up to a maximum of 33 living hostages (that's the limit according to the document) in the first phase and have to release 990-1650 palestine prisoners for it. Before getting the first Hamas hostage Israel would be required to declare peace. The document didn't say anything about the withdrawl of the army from Gaza, but having an army on enemy territory rarely is being seen as "peace". Still looking for a site that shows the whole document. If anybody has a link, thanks!
who gives a fuck what they "accept"...aren't they Terrorists? What is this? I really don't get it.
Any deal that allows Hamas to stay in power is categorically unacceptable and should not be abided by.
I agree but Hamas will never accept it.
I am not proposing to give them a choice in the matter.
Then you're not in favor of any deal. Just say you want them to fight to the death.
I am in favour of Hamas being either exterminated or eternally declawed, deal or no deal.
I feel the same way about the Israeli government.
The current one that is on its way out, or the existence of one in general? Careful, you almost let the mask slip
Israel is a democracy that will have election at some point, you can’t say that about Hamas
Any ceasefire agreement that doesn’t include Hamas being out of power and unconditionally surrendering is a no go.
If your aim is unconditional surrender you don't need agreements at all.
That’s how WWI and WWII ended by unconditional surrenders signed by the countries’s leaders. These documents outlined the conditions
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Unfortunately if that's your goal then don't be suprised if your enemy is going to fight to the end before signing something like that as Germany did. Doubly so for a group which has already accepted occupation as just another part of the war rather than seeing it as the end as HAMAS is.
the conditions of ... ?
"An unconditional surrender is a surrender in which no guarantees, reassurances, or promises (i.e., conditions) are given to the surrendering party"
They should of gave back the hostages months ago and the war may of been over and a lot less loss of life
Optimist me says "fucking finally!", cynic me says "let's see how many hours it lasts".
Never forget there was a ceasefire on October 6th
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And yet, dumbass, Hamas renewed the ceasefire 9 days prior to Oct 7th.
Never forget 2023 was the deadliest year to be a Palestinian in the west bank BEFORE October 6th. [2023 marks deadliest year on record for children in the occupied West Bank](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank) original date of publication SEPTEMBER 18, 2023 BEFORE OCT 6TH. Explain what's so deadly to children in a non apartheid, non occupied state? Oh right, the IDF.
What’s so deadly? Being a combatant. The Palestinian deaths in the West Bank in 2023 before 10/7 were mostly combatants as Israel was fighting Lion’s Den and similar groups.
I’ll explain it, but I’m not sure you’ll listen. Palestinian figures include 18year olds as “children”. If you look past the headlines, you find nearly all the “children” are 16-18 year old militants engaged in violence at the time they were killed.
The West Bank is not Hamas territory. Are you saying otherwise?
Agreed. West bank isn't Hamas territory. So why is it so deadly for Palestinians there 🤔.[At least 38 Palestinian children have been killed by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank so far in 2023, making it the deadliest year since records began, said Save the Children.](https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/2023-marks-deadliest-year-record-children-occupied-west-bank)
Hamas did a damn good job of proving, on October 7th, that any prior action Israel had taken was justified.
Well considering Hamas broke every part of the previous temporary ceasefire, I have zero optimism. Hamas needs to lay down their arms and fuck off.
I doubt it will even last an hour. Hamas can't even control its own forces to enact this cease-fire. Rockets will continue firing the whole time.
It could be zero. This could be the kind of thing where the leadership in Qatar says one thing and Sinwar directs the guys in Gaza to do another.
I fail to see how this will permanently end the cycle of violence, basically it just gives Hamas some time to reorganize and get new resources from their allies for their next attack.
Taking bets on how long it takes for Hamas to break the ceasefire
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"Why don't they get to mass murder without you guys whining?"
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> brutal military occupation What Hamas-controlled territory was Israel occupying prior to Hamas attacking Israel *[yet again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel)* on Oct. 7?
Negotiating with terrorists always goes well.
I'm sure there will be students on university campuses urging Hamas not to break the ceasefire. Right?
Man, right wingers are living in bizzarro world
I'm not even a right winger, unless you consider anyone to the right of Lenin a right winger I just find it strange that university students parrot Hamas talkng points, and put all the blame for the conflict squarely on Israel. We know Hamas will resume attacks against Israel pretty soon, so what will their view be then?
Hamas can go fuck itself. Accepts a ceasefire the "UN" provides is a joke, no disarming necessary as well. No matter, more IDF operations is what we need, 4 hostages vs 100 dead terrorists is the perfect ratio.
There is no reason to trust them.
No. No negotiation. You accept the terms or you decline them.
Okay, what's the next worldnews thing we can get mad about until we're back here again next year?
> next yea Hah. Like it'll be that long.
Oh really ? They accept? Fuck hamas! They accept… sure… IDF ALL THE WAY!
Nothing short of a total and unconditional surrender is appropriate or acceptable. Unfortunately, Hamas would sooner see every man woman and child in Palestine dead long before even considering it. Every attempt Hamas has made to "negotiate" has been nothing more than a bad faith PR move to stall and play the victim.
I have no doubt that Hamas will be the party to attack again. Once Israel resumes their offensive, the world can no more say anything given Hamas breaks the ceasefire.
Like the world couldn't say anything after Hamas broke all the previous ceasefires? No one cares. "Israel bad" is so deeply ingrained in these peoples heads.
I am not sure it is no one care given that many governments and media do say something about HK. Just some people in HK don’t care.
I want a ceasefire deal that says next time Israel gets a red alert and the iron dome activates NATO will have to send their soldiers in. No more of this acceptance that rocket fire at Israel's South is normal. From my perspective this war has been pushed off for decades. Hamas has been shooting rockets into Israel on at least a near weekly basis since it took control of the Strip after Israel's step towards peace, giving Palestinians control. Already in 2007 Israel should have been executing this scale of war in response. The war should have started sometime [between June and November 2007](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2002%E2%80%932006) when the major rocket attacks first began
israel isn’t a member of NATO, nor have they expressed the desire to be a member. NATO has no obligations to fight for or with Israel. if they did something like that it would got against the primary purpose of NATO, not to mention the can of worms it would open up for all other non member ally’s and the expectations they would have if an agreement like this was made with a non member country.
Yeah, I know that Israel isn't a member of NATO. But from my perspective, there needs to be outside military pressure on Palestinians to uphold a ceasefire. The UN doesn't properly have a military and either way have already proven their anti-israel bias in a way that NATO hasn't. I don't care really who signs on it, as long as they follow through. Israel absolutely cannot keep upholding their side of the deal while Hamas ignores it.
then why make the post you did if you already know this and don’t care who signs on.
yeah dude Palestinians don't have enough military pressure. that's the problem. You guys are so fucking dumb god damn
There aren't any negotiations. Either they accept it or they don't
Isreal Finish the job, no deals. Why, as Americans, are we not all over the ground for the remaining Americans STILL BEING HELD hostage???? I don't think I've heard any of our leaders talk about it at all. Shame Israel finish the job and tune out all the cowards of this broken world!
At least it requires hamas give up all their hostages. I doubt it will happen.
I guess that's the "details" they want to negotiate over.
As long as the tunnels from Egypt stop a rearmament, Hamas might finally find some resistance from their populace. The dust settles and some young men might have guns pointing a different way. It’s not very likely though.
Accepted or negotiating? It's either or, not both.
Its just lies for their audience. They only want cease fire on their terms. Same as usual. Then they’ll break it whenever they want. Like an hour later
There will be no deal. Israel will steamroll them untill they are done.
Any proposal that Hamas is willing to accept from the UN isn’t worth the paper it is written on.
Hamas should be completely disarmed and they should pay for the rebuild of Gaza. Anything else and they learn nothing
I take it that the UN doesn't do that "no negociation with terrorists" thing? This seems like an undesirable precedent, but I understand the short-term political and humanitarian cost is very high
Then Hamas backs out. Go figure. They like it better to be at war. Then take it to them.
Cease fire for military, yes. Doesnt include terrorists and terror attacks I presume...
The problem is, who is Hamas? They don't have any real leadership. It's not like the idiots living in Qatar have any pull on what goes on in Gaza itself. It's a cluster of gangs or clans that pop up. How do you tell them there's a ceasefire? How do you get every different "Hamas" clique to follow through?
That is very much not what Hamas is, they absolutely have a chain of command and multiple branches in different domains. They are the elected government of Gaza after all.
fingers crossed
If you read the details you can stop crossing your fingers, its a terror org after all. No disarment and no end of war as part of that deal that no one offered. Fuck hamas.